Less fucked-up OP edition.

Previous thread >>96100286

GURPS is a modular, adaptable system, capable of running a wide range of characters, settings, and play styles, with a level of detail varying from lightweight to completely autistic.
Optional rules allow you to emulate different genres with a single system, or even switch genres within a single game.

A nearly complete archive of GURPS books can be found by using the image (follow the URL to get to a folder with some files, read the files to get to the archive). Never post direct links to the archive anywhere in plain text.

If you're wondering where to start:
- The Basic Set covers everything, including a lot of optional rules you probably won't use.
- A genre guide can be found in the archive, under Unofficial/GURPSgen. It tells you what extra books and articles you may find useful for many common genres.
- How To Be a GURPS GM is a good read even for players.
- GCS (gurpscharactersheet.com) is an excellent character-builder software, with page references to all the books and the option to export to both Foundry and Fantasy Grounds.

Thread Question: which Fantasy Folk title do you want to see next (after fish-folk).

I decided to play New Vegas again and now I really want to play an After the End game.

>>96198594 (OP)
I want fantasy-folk: Dwarves.
Why? because we got fantasy-folk elves and it's not fair that dwarvs don't get their own.
A great time to add more underground adventure stuff.

How would I make something like a bow from Warframe that can penetrate a foe half-way, send him flying off the ground, then pin him to the wall? Ideally, I'd want to accomplish this using only a mix of low-tech/ultra-tech and skills/techniques. Although, I feel like what I want is specific enough that it can only be built as an advantage. Probably a Crushing attack with Double Knockback linked to an Impaling attack and possibly a Binding attack.

So... are we dropping the pdf entirely?

>>96198850
Bow with absurd damage (massive ST + options from "The Arrow of Progress") + Rules Exemption (Impaling Damage Deals Full Knockback) + Cinematic Knockback

>>96198594 (OP)
>TQ:

Leprechauns

>>96198874
The folder which is linked by the image contains the PDF.

>>96198882
Didn't know there was an Ultra-Tech article for bows. Huh. Alright, I'll try that. Thanks.

>>96199000
Okay, then

Shame we can no longer share pdfs, here is a pdf version of No-School Grognard's College Ritual Book Magic for Dungeon Fantasy

https://files.catbox.moe/07wary.pdf

If a character wants to spray hairspray, light it on fire, and then burn another with the resulting flame, what does he roll to hit?

>>96200762
Liquid Projector DX/E

>>96200619
Thank you

>>96198594 (OP)
>Thread Question: which Fantasy Folk title do you want to see next (after fish-folk).
Fantasy Folk: More Elves. And after that, Fantasy Folk: Even More Elves.
Yeah I'm biased. I don't care.

Giant newts!

https://samuelbaughn.blogspot.com/2025/07/temnospondyls-in-gurps.html

>>96200859
Thanks!

>>96200966
Fantasy Folk: Chubby Slob Elves with Big Naturals, by David Pulver, 256 pages.

>>96200996
Very nice. I should throw a Mastodonsaurus at my party. Except it's 1900s England so that's rather hard to justify.
As amphibious ambush predators, it's really sink-or-swim (heh) on if they manage to nab an unwary PC or if their attack fails and the party just... moves away from the shoreline. I ran a combat featuring a giant eel so I've seen this play out in real time. But having it grab hold means the objective becomes less "kill thing" and more "kill thing before it drags our buddy into the water, never to be seen again".

>>96201180
>1900s England so that's rather hard to justify.
that's the perfect era to go to a lost world type of island

>>96198594 (OP)
Classic GURPSian header, now with the new cosmetic attachment. Little more aesthetically pleasing I think.

>>96201179
Know that were it possible to kill a man through the internet you would be dead before this post was sent. Worst manga, worst elf depiction ever.

>>96201418
I honestly prefer the minimalist one from OP, since it's easier to see it on the catalog

>>96201180
>Except it's 1900s England so that's rather hard to justify.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morag_(lake_monster)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muc-sheilche

>>96201430
It'd be easier to see a blank yellow rectangle too. Not really a point of contention. 'GURPS' is in big letters in both in either case, and the one that actually looks like a GURPS book is all the better.

>>96201435
A turtle-pig, some 30 feet long, with a foot-wide head... the party IS up in Scotland right now, so it wouldn't be out of the question to have them lured towards the shoreline.

>>96201180
you mean they encounter an antediluvian beast??

Just to confirm, In DFRPG the +1 to hit from magic weapon of accuracy is not the same as +1 to skill from balanced right?
So while balanced would increase your parry, the Accuracy enchantment would not, right?

>>96204267
That's how I've run it, since the game bothers to draw a line between "to hit" and "skill."

>>96204267
Yes

>>96201565
>and the one that actually looks like a GURPS book is all the better.
This tbqhwyfamalampai.

>>96204474
>>96204697
Good to know

>>96201565
>ne that actually looks like a GURPS book is all the better.
Turns out that the only part of the anti-AI measures that was really working was the overlapping custom letter forms. All the fuckery with lines, texture, and noise was only making a marginal difference because 'AI' has become very good at working around them. So (pic related) is probably secure enough (until technology improves again).

I want to have a binding advantage that inflicts control points.
Or, I don't know, an innate attack that deals control points.
I want to be able to spend those control points as usual for FDG grappling rules.
How would I price this? Is there any pyramid or whatever that explains how to make "control point damage type" or something?

>>96205528
Control Points are probably not going to show up in Pyramid, but the Hand of Stone spell in Fantastic Dungeon Grappling is probably a good place to start for a template.

>>96205434
>the only part of the anti-AI measures that was really working was the overlapping custom letter forms
Did you pick that up from a paper somewhere? I'd enjoy reading up on that kind of stuff if you have an actual source.

Hey Samuel Baughn blog anon. Could you include point totals of the animals you post? Having that instantly available is very handy for games with shape shifters and allies. I know the animorphs game I tried when I first started with GURPS would have greatly benefited from the resource you're building

>>96205824
this is a good point, I have a druid in my party who is totally gonna want a pet dinosaur.

>>96205585
No, I just trial-and-errored different approaches against some machines and figured out what was working well and what made no difference.

>>96205824
The big problem with complete templates is that they require adding details like sleep and lifespan which are often unknown for extinct animals. This probably doesn't matter for shapechanging, so abbreviated templates would still be useful with points costs.
Looking up points costs (and checking I got them right) is also time-consuming, but I don't know if it would slow me down enough to make a difference. I will try doing a few and see how it goes.

>>96205528
If Constriction Attack (B43) doesn't suit your needs then Telekinesis would be the simplest solution. If you mean automatic and inevitable grapples then you can add the no roll required and no defense allowed from GURPS Powers found somewhere along the cosmic modifier. This is expensive.
I think a Crushing innate attack with the melee modifier would be legally viable as well, since the point of the limitation is that "it counts as a weapon", but it doesn't feel right at a first glance.
>>96205824
you just can't stop sucking cocks can you
He has a blog. Don't fucking call him out of the blue here.
>>96206381
I think adding point costs would only make referencing the animals during a game more difficult for nearly no benefit. At best only one or two critters will be used as an Ally.
Again, no offense to you anon. I like your work too, and it's cool you add variants. The problem its just recurring faggots being pests in this anonymous general.

>>96206481
>If Constriction Attack (B43)
Doesn't work because it still uses basic grappling mechanics, I want something that tells me how many control points it deals.
>If you mean automatic and inevitable grapples
What I really want is like an innate attack that instead of crushing or cut or whatever, deals control points instead of damage. Or a way to convert the binding into measurable control points.

>>96205434
perhaps a QR code would be better

>>96206481
>I think adding point costs would only make referencing the animals during a game more difficult for nearly no benefit.
The "nearly no benefit": Making them instantly translatable into existing game mechanics in ways other than just enemy encounters.
The "difficult referencing: ....I actually have no idea. It's just a number in brackets. Really can't see what the issue is here.

>>96206600
Luckily, Binding already gives a straightforward standard to begin with: It Grapples with an amount of ST equal to your Binding level. So it comes out to:

> On a hit, your victim takes Control Points as though they were grappled, with effective ST equal to your Binding level. If you have 6 or more levels in Binding, treat the grapple as though the binds had Wrestling at DX+1 - and if you have 12 or more levels, treat it as though they had Wrestling at DX+4 instead! You can layer additional attacks on a successfully bound victim. Each extra layer lets you attack to increase control, as normal. Additionally, he is rooted in place. He cannot select the Move or Change Posture maneuvers or change facing. These Control Points cannot be spent unless you take the Engulfing (+60%) enhancement, in which case they can be used for a Takedown.
>To break free, the victim may attempt to counter-grapple as normal to remove control, against which the Bindings defend with a "parry" equal to 1/2 your Binding level. Alternatively, he may try to destroy the Binding. Innate Attacks hit automatically; other attacks are at -4. External attacks on the Binding take no penalty, but risk hitting the victim on a miss (see Striking Into a Close Combat, p. 392). The Binding has DR equal to 1/3 your level (rounded down). Each point of damage reduces CP by one. At 0 CP, the Binding is destroyed and the victim is freed.

>>96207234
>>96206600
As for "An Innate Attack that inflicts control points", I really think Binding IS what you want. Innate Attack is for instantaneous, momentary effects. Binding (or Affliction) are for longer-lasting effects. Grappling definitely falls into the latter category.

>>96207095
>avoid being machine-readable by using QR code

A New Take on Grappling (#3/34) > FDG
(:

>>96207234
>>96207374
this works perfectly, thanks! I would like an enhancement to allow free use of the control points, but I guess that's more telekinesis.

>>96207689
Way too complicated.

>>96207977
Yeah at that point Telekinesis is what you're after, or summoning an Ally to grapple at your command. Luckily, the former already provides for a modular effective ST and the latter is an actual character, so converting them to use FDG should be easy.

>>96207689
>no rules for pulling an enemy into your knife or similar actions
>instead of a single roll that uses the regular attack and damage rules, it's a contest with a bunch of tiny different modifiers instead of just size and location.
>instead of just your skill you have one technique for every single thing you can do
>only way to deal damage is based on margin of victory as crushing damage so any fights take forever
I don't see how this is any better than fantastic dungeon grappling.

>>96206381
>Looking up points costs (and checking I got them right) is also time-consuming, but I don't know if it would slow me down enough to make a difference. I will try doing a few and see how it goes.
I tried it, and it takes way more extra time than I thought. Enough that it pushes making new content from something I want to do to something that I wouldn't. So I'm not going to be doing points costs, sorry. If you really want to turn into a very specific prehistoric amphibian or something, you're going to have to put in some effort.
Anyway, here's some big birds:
https://samuelbaughn.blogspot.com/2025/07/terror-birds-in-gurps.html

>>96207539
Why do we hate machines again?

What's the weapon master cost for "all axes and maces"

>>96208719
Certain companies (and certain people) use bots to automatically find and report copyright-infringing troves.

The Low-/High-Tech rules for camouflage seem kind of bullshit.
(TL 0) Clothing similar to the terrain color gives +1 in that specific terrain. This seems reasonable.
Highly contrasting clothing gives from -1 to -3, which again seems reasonable.
(TL 6) simple camouflage is just a plain neutral colour which works almost anywhere and gives +1 to camouflage. So far, so good.
(TL 1) hunting shirt gives +1 for specific terrain, or +2 if given a 'blotchy dye job'. I'm dubious about this really being TL 1 and don't see how breaking up your outline and texture with foliage, cordage, fringes, etc. is no better than plain clothing unless dyed in a specific way.
(TL 7) Basic camouflage gives +2 in specific terrain and -1 or worse in all other terrain. This seems unlikely. Desert camo shouldn't do as good a job as jungle camo in the jungle, but it seems unlikely to be two skill levels worse than plain khaki! Something like +1 for reasonably similar terrain (e.g. forest camo in a jungle or swamp) down to -1 for contrasting terrain seems more reasonable. I also believe that there were some OK camouflage patterns available towards the end of TL 6.
(TL 8) advanced camouflage is even worse, giving -2 almost everywhere! This seems ridiculous; even very specific camouflage doesn't stand out that much in the wrong terrain.
Reversible camouflage is supposedly TL 8, but it dates back at least to TL 7, and I believe the Germans issued it in late TL 6.
There are no rules for effective universal patterns anywhere that I can find.
Overall, it seems that camouflage patterns are basically useless until you get to TL 9 and everyone should just stick with plain OD, khaki, etc.

>>96208766
I'd say "medium class," for [35] if it also includes 2H variants; "small class" for [30] if it's just one-handed axes and maces.

>>96208821
thanks, that makes sense. It's probably 35 since I'm using house rules where Ax/maxe and two-handed axe/mace are the same skill since it seemed silly to me that putting two hands on your ax made you lose 12 points worth of skill.

>>96208812
I think part of the reason "standard" Camo clothing only goes up to +2 is that effective camouflage comes down more to skill in particulars - like the "bushy" add-ons in that image. But I don't think it would really break anything to increase the bonuses for properly-tailored patterns.

>>96207689
This

>>96208766
All fencing weapons (small class) presumably covers main-gauche, edged rapier, rapier, light rapier, light edged rapier, smallsword, dress smallsword, and saber, which is 8 weapons.
Ninja weapons (medium class) are presumably sickle (kama), bladed hand, nunchaku, shortsword, sai, large and small knife, kusari, kusarigama, kusarijutte, jutte, various shuriken and maybe short staff, jo, quarterstaff, sodegarami, naginata, three-part-staff, short bow, blowpipe (and possibly a few I overlooked), for 14-22+
'All swords' is medium and covers at least 20 weapons, probably into the low thirties if you are being generous.
All axes is hatchet, small axe, axe, throwing axe, small throwing axe, long axe, great axe, and pole-axe, which is 8 already. Maces add the mace, small mace, round mace, small round mace, gada, and maybe tetsubo for a total of 13-14.
So 'all axes and maces' looks kind of intermediate between small and medium, but clearly not large. I'd be inclined to call it medium.

>>96208866
It's not really the upper end of the bonus that bothers me so much as the huge penalties for taking it anywhere outside of the intended terrain. Disruptive patterns in mostly neutral colours shouldn't be giving you an overall penalty outside of extreme environments.
Notably, compare camouflage clothing to natural camouflage: a tiger with Limited Camouflage (Jungle) gets +2 in jungle, but no penalty in grasslands or temperate forests, while a guy in tiger-stripe camouflage gear gets the same bonus in jungle, but -1 anywhere else.

>>96205434
>.in
I wish life were different.

>>96198756
True, death to elves

>>96198743
>play an After the End game.
Is after the end any good? The only actual play content I've seen of it seemed like it tried to shove too much stuff from too many series into one campaign.

>>96208812
>>96209023
Going by the examples, all military camouflage patterns fall into "Basic Camouflage", while "Advanced Camouflage" is mostly high resolution prints of tree photographs, which is, in fact, overly specific. It matches a specific kind of tree, in a specific season, and assumes stillness. Basic Camouflage works on multiple scales, while Advanced prints de-resolve over longer distances makes them stick out, which isn't a concern for hunting since the assumption is that you'd be shooting from less than 100 m. Also it's just marketing bullshit, so who knows if it actually deserves a +3 to camouflage that always applies within an environment.
I would agree with your opinion on having Basic Camouflage count as Simple in similar terrains though, it seems sensible to me. The easiest way to handle universal camouflage is probably to count multiple environments (+1 CF per) as receiving +2, similar ones getting +1, and whatever is left counts as constrasting.
I treat Limited Camouflage as having the same contrast limitation as regular camouflage.

>>96208812
Since TL 7 begins in 1940, the German reversible suits are all TL 7. IIRC reversible smocks weren't a thing before that

The Fantasy Trip is better for good fantasy than GURPS core ever was. Get Into the Labyrinth and you've got the guts of a great fantasy game - high fantasy, low fantasy, and especially sword and sorcery. Works great for historic roleplaying too.

>>96211151
Steven, go away

I am finally back from my journeys through other systems. GURPS still king.

>>96211967
I have yet to find a system in which i didn't just want to rebuild the world in GURPS.

>>96209357
Sounds like typical stumbling block of GURPS content: "This book gives all these different things we can do, so despite the book having an entire chapter on selecting which threats make sense together, let's just use all of them and make it a big goofy mess of every postapoc trope we have."

Under a more sober GM, AtE is a lot of fun. I've ran two games and played in one and had a blast each time. Lower point values and lack of either cinematic handwaving or magical powers mean you can't ignore "boring" stuff as much, which ironically I find very fun; it's cool when dangerous locations are actually dangerous and not something the GM just breezes over, or at most breaks up with a random combat encounter.

>>96210971
>I treat Limited Camouflage as having the same contrast limitation as regular camouflage.
'Sorry, Jaguar, your jungle camouflage is ineffective in these plains. Cheetah, yours works great.'

>>96212927
You're strawmaning, but in plains the vertical stripes of a tiger aren't as useful as in a wooded area or in areas of relatively low grass. Regardless, both of them would stick out like a sore thumb in green, temperate plains with few trees, but fare better in more areas that are more arid or where vegetation is more sparce. Note that the colour contrast is about human vision, and doesn't necesarily apply to their prey.

Some more of god's cursed abortions...
Crocodiles as drawn by Matt Groening: https://samuelbaughn.blogspot.com/2025/07/phytosaurs-in-gurps.html
Galloping land crocs: https://samuelbaughn.blogspot.com/2025/07/rauisuchids-in-gurps.html
Giant saber-toothed weasels: https://samuelbaughn.blogspot.com/2025/07/oxyaenids-in-gurps.html

>>96212847
Does GURPS have any rules for hardass timekeeping like OD&D? I hate those rules but I need to know if they exist somewhere.

>>96211967
Enrich us with your findings, wanderer one.

>>96214591
How do you mean "Hardass Timekeeping"? Tracking how long things take and how many days/hours/minutes have passed is largely system-agnostic.

>>96214591
? Things in combat are tracked second by second. Out of combat depends, but usually out want to keep track of 10 minute periods since that's how fast energy reserves recover, and usually in dungeons random encounters are rolled every hour.

>>96214687
>>96214753
I know there's normal time tracking, but I mean turning the dungeon crawl into a video game where there are turns with specific things happening every ten minutes, with rations and random encounters. I've never seen anything like this for GURPS, or any references to running dungeons like it.

Transhuman Space question: How common are private gunmen in Fourth Wave worlds?

>>96215718
Gurps just times things based on semi realistic time scales so a torch lasts a realistic amount of time instead of 6 units or whatever.

>>96215718
I could have SWORN there was something like this for GURPS in one of the Pyramids, something that tracked average move speeds in various scenarios (e.g. x0.2 speed when "casually searching," Move 1 for "cautiously searching," full Move for running that penalized Per rolls to spot threats, etc.) and how it interacted with some form of scheduling or time limit, but I couldn't find anything actually digging through my copies.

At least, I'm pretty sure it was Pyramid. And not, like, a blog post or whatever.

>>96215718
that eggplant blogger did an adaptation of ACKS "procedures" for grups

>>96215718
"Tactical Looting" Pyramid 4/1

>>96215991
Oh and DF: Megadungeons, too

>>96215759
Isn't that more of a question of CR? The CR tables are in Fifth Wave

>>96215759
The big issue is that there's a thin line between jobs serious enough to justify hiring an armed professional and those serious enough to justify an armed cybershell or combat bioroid. Skilled humans are expensive, even in second-tier nations.
Overall, I'd expect human security to mostly be either 'public friendly' roles or supervisors. Either might carry a gun, but I wouldn't really call them 'gunmen' in the way an actual infantryman mercenary would be.
That's for legitimate business, of course. Criminals probably use more humans because infomorphs without Honesty are hard to come by. On the other hand, they seem to have a lot of bioroids even in places bioroids aren't really legal. For assassination, smart weapons cut into the 'gunman' role too. We're probably not too far off a time when criminal gangs start using drones to murder each other (maybe we're already there, I don't follow the news on that kind of thing closely). By 2100, they will definitely have figured out that killer robots are more effective than low-IQ kids doing drive-bys.

>>96216049
Which page?

>>96216282
>Skilled humans are expensive
So are Bioroids but those can be just twice as skilled so humans can always be a cheap alternative.

>>96215718
Why wouldn't this work in GURPS? It's just up to the game world if monsters wander in 16% of the time every thirty minutes, though playing that many fights in GURPS could instantly kill a game.
The point of GURPS is that it uses real-world measurements, which the OSR also tracks.

Ahem.

Kill Realm Management. Behead Realm Management. Roundhouse kick Realm Management into the concrete. Slam dunk Realm Management into the trashcan. Crucify filthy Realm Management. Defecate in Realm Management's food. Launch Realm Management into the sun. Stir fry Realm Management in a wok. Toss Realm Management into active volcanoes. Urinate into Realm Management's gas tank. Judo throw Realm Management into a wood chipper. Twist Realm Management's head off. Report Realm Management to the IRS. Karate chop Realm Management in half. Curb stomp pregnant Realm Management. Trap Realm Management in quicksand. Crush Realm Management in the trash compactor. Liquefy Realm Management in a vat of acid. Eat Realm Management. Dissect Realm Management. Exterminate Realm Management in the gas chamber. Stomp Realm Management's skull with steel toed boots. Cremate Realm Management in the oven. Lobotomize Realm Management. Mandatory abortions for Realm Management. Grind Realm Management fetuses in the garbage disposal. Drown Realm Management in fried chicken grease. Vaporize Realm Management with a ray gun. Kick Realm Management down the stairs. Feed Realm Management to alligators. Slice Realm Management with a katana.

>>96217024
I hope somebody's sends this to Rice one day.

Since neither newer nor older always mean better, which edition(s) would you recommend to newcomers to GURPs?

>>96217290
4th, but I'd point out that think from 3rd edition are easy to port into 4th, makings those books valuable still.

>>96217290
DFRPG if you want D&D-esque fantasy, 4th otherwise.

>>96217290
4th always. I guess like the other anon said, DFRPG if you really want, but

Are the girls supplements really that complicated?

Would gurps work for a Gundam game?

>>96217997
>Would gurps work for a Gundam game?
Of course

>Are the girls supplements really that complicated?
They need a lot of iron and later on in life calcium, unfortunately.

>>96218020
You know what I meant, how complicated would a gurps Gundam game be to run?

>>96218031
As complicated as you want.
The simplest version would be to build the Gundams as characters but treat everything as decade-scale. So a 15 dST gundam would have 150 ST. A gun that deals 4d6 pi would deal 4d6x10 cr. 10 dDR is 100 DR. A basic move of 5 becomes a move of 50. Swing and Thrust damage would remain the same since it's already scaled with dST.
There's problems with this system, but you could still run a very fun game with it.

>>96218031
In a lot of ways, controlling a giant humanoid mech isn't that different from controlling a normal human person; the skills and rolls will be the same. In the basic rules, the only difference between getting in a brawl as a human and getting in one while piloting of 40' tall mech is that your Dodge is based on your Driving (Mecha) skill. I personally like the houserule that your Driving skill also acts as a cap on all DX and DX-based skills, to explain why you want a seasoned pilot at the controls and not just a martial artist with no piloting experience, but many mech shows imply the opposite so it's up to you.

As for mech design, there's always the classic of "just use character creation rules." GURPS's character creation is very thorough and might be a great option if you or your players want a lot of freedom in how to customize their mech. That's not the only option though. There's a very in-depth mecha creation ruleset for 3e that mostly works for 4e, you need just to convert ST and guns stats, but many people bounce off it for being too in-depth. I feel that the article Modular Mecha from Pyramid #3/51 is a nice compromise here, letting you pick from three "weights" of mech and then letting you add and remove features in an easy-to-understand way, letting players customize their rides without risking them getting lost in the weeds.

>>96216375
Whatever page has the country tables. It's a bit dumb in that it doesn't really list which ones are Fourth Wave but of course many countries will have multiple waves

>>96216282
There's an entire Personnel Files (Martingale Security) that's dedicated to a Fourth Wave people-with-guns sort of team

>>96218554
Sorry they're actually more Fifth Wave but people-with-guns is more of a 4th Wave thing anyway, so you can extrapolate

If I were to create a GURPS-like clone, with generally compatible design but somewhat different design goals from SJG (for example, release it to the public domain, support and encourage digital tools, and focus on presenting it as a more useful toolkit than around a model based on selling TTRPG books in the traditional sense) would that be something people here found interesting or useful? I'd considered doing something like this before, and calling it SPURG.

>>96218591
Depends on your end goal
I have played a somewhat GURPS-informed game (ended up never being released) that was tied to a particular steampunk setting. GURPS already does the generic thing so you would similarly need an angle for it

>>96218031
>You know what I meant
This is a GURPS general, you can't prove I'm not autistic enough to think that.

>>96218591
Probably. I wouldn't necessarily like it but if it's good it's good. What would be the point though? What are you really bringing to the table, or fixing about GURPS as it currently stands that official eratta or common house rules don't?

>>96218031
Like the other anon said, as complicated as you want to do it. I've never looked into mech shit before but I bet there's rules for it somewhere.

I'd probably just make it up though. Give the players a certain number of starting points, and a separate pool of starting points to flesh out their individual gundam, with the option to use some of their main points on the gundam but not the other way around. I'd probably base the weapons off naval and tank guns and things like that, maybe find some suitable naval/space laser from whatever book, then scale the armor accordingly.

I don't like keeping track of "out of game" time like in the Luck advantage.
However, the in-game conversion of "once per day" would make it too useless, it would change the from "around 6 times per session" to "once per 2 or sometimes even 3 sessions" due to how we run dungeons.
I'm thinking of changing it to a "per scene/encounter" since scenes tend to take around 1 hour or so. And then just going 15 points=1/encounter, 30 = 2/encounter, 60=3/encounter.
I think that would more or less keep things about the same. Combat sometimes goes slower and roleplaying scenes end faster, but I'd say it averages out.

>>96214642
Mighty Protectors V&V 3.0 : Studied and Played
HOSTILE: Studied and Played
Against the Darkmaster: Studied
Hackmaster 5e: Studied
DC Heroes/ Blood of Heroes: Studied

Migthy Protectors was the most fun of those, probably my go to supers system if I ever convince my table of making supers a regular thing. I may adapt the random character generation process at some point with atributes being random and the aftermath of it resulting in character points. Hackmaster was close to GURPS with the second-by-second combat but I found it way to convoluted with their "everyone does everything at the same time" approach, maybe if I played I would have a better feeling but it felt really clumbersome readying it.

>>96218031
Building the gundams and making decisions on their power scale would take a non-insignificant amount of time, but all of the work is front-loaded before you start the game so it should be smooth sailing once you're at the table playing. I agree with using Modular Mecha (>>96218186) and accepting that you'll need to be doing some extrapolation to fully kit out your gundams. If you decide to stat them out as characters, you're in for significantly more work as you have to read a lot more and make more judgement calls, but none of that work is difficult. Just a lot of reading.

The first thing you need to decide is what kind of gundam you're adapting. Do you want super robots like G Gundam or real robots like SEED?

>>96219766
The description of Game Time (Power Ups 4 p14) explicitly encourages the GM to reduce the time from 1 day to twice a day, 4x a day or longer if the game has a lot of "slow" time every session. But if you want to make it explicitly per-encounter, befitting a dungeon fantasy game, I think once per encounter is reasonable as a baseline yeah.

>>96221378
>But if you want to make it explicitly per-encounter, befitting a dungeon fantasy game
Pretty much. I find "per encounter" or "per scene" a much more useful metric than anything based on real time or game time.
Like sometimes a whole week or month passes on a single "downtime scene", which would make per day too powerful, but in a dungeon, we sometimes spend technically a few hours at most of in game time, which would make "per day" too weak.

>>96221610
I usually use times per session. Works great.

I'm planning of playing a battle alchemist based on the Perfumers of Elden Ring. Any suggestion?

>>96223419
Read dungeon fantasy sages and the alchemist lens.
Find a system you like for creating items from scratch. I like meta tech but there's others in gurps.
Because the amount of actual potions is small, so creating your own is a must.

Of course if you're just looking for the flavor you can just build a character normally and give yourself innate attack, binding, or even sorcery spells and use the alchemy power modifier.

>>96223419
>>96223561
In case you don't know, here's 3 ways to make shit based on points that costs money. Each gives a way to go "X$ = 1 point". This allows you to make your own alchemist items so you can actually create the perfumer consumables that exist in elden ring instead of being stuck throwing alchemist fire for 1d6-1 forever.
>metatech
>metatronic generator (Pyramid 3-46)
>sorcery
I like metatech the best but it isn't balanced at all, so it's on the GM to prevent abuse.

I asked a similar question last thread so forgive me for spamming but I've been digging through the splats and I am having autism choice paralysis.
Basically, it's my first time running GURPS and the concept is "urban fantasy". Instead of a warrior in plate armor swinging an enchanted mace at an ogre in a dungeon, it's a merc in tactical gear swinging his hyperkinetic baseball bat at an alien pig cop in a warehouse. Effectively the same thing, but with a coat of 2000s nostalgia.

Action and the gear books are the easy choices, but I don't know if I should pull from the actual fantasy books and reflavor everything as high tech. Can regular axes and spears stand shoulder to shoulder with TL8 guns? Is there a quick and dirty template you can apply to melee weapons to bring them up to TL8 standards? Or am I just overthinking this?

>>96223885
>Can regular axes and spears stand shoulder to shoulder with TL8 gun
This is entirely decided by what cinematic rules you want to use. With no cinematic rules in play, bringing a sword to a gunfight is a bad idea. As the GM you have to decide if this is the kind of game where a guy with a katana and a trenchcoat is just as much of a threat as the guy with an M16. You should also decide if you want dual wielding to be useful or not.
That said if you want vibroblades and monoswords it's on Ultratech.
Also you can just grab a fantasy monster and give them guns. Remember that sometimes gunning down a horde of melee monsters is fun too.
(here's a big list of them)
https://enragedeggplant.blogspot.com/2017/10/monster-index.html

>>96223885
>Can regular axes and spears stand shoulder to shoulder with TL8 guns?
No, guns are always the great equalizer in a fight.

>Is there a quick and dirty template you can apply to melee weapons to bring them up to TL8 standards? Or am I just overthinking this?
The other way around, there are rules to make guns less deadly so there is some balance in games with melee. Pyramid 3-44 Survivable Guns

>>96223923
>As the GM you have to decide if this is the kind of game where a guy with a katana and a trenchcoat is just as much of a threat as the guy with an M16.
100% yes to this.
I do have one player who I KNOW for a FACT will want to play the big swingy ST guy.
None of them are particularly experienced either so no one will try to munchkin me.

>>96223885
Luck, survivable guns, flesh wounds, kevlar, and making sure the beefcafe has High Pain Threshold (and perhaps Daredevil) will go a long way to making melee "viable" in an urban fantasy setting. You might also want to consider nerfing the people with the guns as much as making sure the street samurai can eat a few bullets. Enemies always roll against DX or at default and never aim unless they're a serious threat, for example.

>>96223949
Ok, then my advice is to familiarize yourself with the cinematic rules, they're on the basic set already, and action, martial arts and gun-fu add some more specifically about action heroes + guns, which should equalize melee and ranged pretty well. I'm sure there's a way to parry bullets too if you really want to go full weeb but I don't remember where, some other anon probably knows.

>>96224213
>>96224010
>parrying bullets
Enhanced time sense allows bullet parry at -5, and you can buy the penalty off with a technique. You could handwave enhanced time sense requirement away but enhanced time sense is a good advantage anyway for a melee dude in a setting where guns exist and are common.

I wonder if I should make a blog and post my own version of wizardry alongside my adaptations of D&D4e powers into gurps "wizardry" spells.
I'll become the D&D4e eggplant, the only weirdo that likes D&D4e and GURPS.

>>96224301
Yes

>>96224301
Go for it, shill it on sjgforum as well

>>96224301
Do it

>>96224301
I like 4e conceptually and GURPS in practice, so I at least would read it.

>>96224773
>>96224710
>>96224594
>>96224310
All right. I'll create a blogger with some throw-away email, and start posting. Only thing is that there's some stuff I pretty much copied from Eggplant stuff, like the way he formats spells:
>Full Cost:
>Casting Roll:
>Components:
>Cost:
>Casting Time:
>Range:
>Duration:
I should probably give a shout out to his blog for his inspiration or something.

>>96223885
In cyberpunk games, I've found that melee can stay relevant simply due to cramped quarters and sharp 90-degree corners in urban locales; if you can't get LoF to a target until they're already within a few yards of you, suddenly the range of guns isn't as big of an advantage.

That isn't to say that guns lose all their advantages--they still are throwing out tons of dice of damage with high RoF--but being a fantasy setting, you have other tools for closing the gap further.\
>Monsters resist bullets
This is clearest with zombie and golems, creatures with Injury Tolerance that dastically drop the effectiveness of piercing damage (and impaling damage, RIP spears), but depending on your setting this could be expanded greatly. Maybe demons are just chunks of raw magical malice and thus are all Homogenous. Hell, maybe *all* monsters are like that!
>Monsters have specific weaknesses
If you're facing folklorish threats that can only be put down (or kept down) by a specific thing, then it can benefit you to be competent with melee weapons. Yes, fiction is awash in silver bullets and people retrofitting shotgun shells to fire holly stakes, but not everything will work like that; if something's weakness is a cross, you need to beat it to death with a church's wrought iron cross, not melt it down and cast it into bullets. If all else fails, you can introduce a threat that's only vulnerable to Unobtanium, a material that's rare enough they're not going to put it in one-use bullets and instead opts for spears and swords that can be used ad infinitum.
>Melee weapons can be enchanted
Related to the last category, many things can just be weak to magic. Enchanting ammo being cheaper than enchanting weapons is, as far as I can tell, something that only comes up in DF; RAW in the default magic system, if you're going to enchant something it better be something you can use more than once.

>>96225089
>homogeneous
I don't recommend that. A lot of the fun of melee combat is being able to pick where you hit and homogeneous removes all the hit locations.
It's fine to fight a few but having most of the monsters like that sucks.

>>96225089
>if you're going to enchant something it better be something you can use more than once.
If I am doing urban fantasy I do want magic guns
I've always had this subplot idea of Excalibur being broken beyond repair during the setting's WW2 era and reforged into the receiver of a few wood-furniture rifles. The intent is for both melee and guns to be on roughly even ground.
I'll probably be taking the advice of >>96223946 and using the less deadly guns rules. If that ends up STILL more killy than I want then >>96224010 's advice of making mooks shoot like retards should suffice.

New Hotspots is out. Istanbul, 1453-1703. Sequel to Constantinople.
https://warehouse23.com/collections/new/products/gurps-hot-spots-istanbul-1453-1703-a-dot-d

I don't like that they're calling it that, though, because the city was named Istanbul until the 20th century.

>>96226676
This complaint is addressed in the introduction.

>>96226705
Good.
Still.

>>96219088
The main idea is that it would be a compatible clone of the rules, the same way OSR clones are to D&D. It would be fully released to the Public Domain under Creative Commons Zero. This would allow people to do whatever they want with it, without restriction, including legally publish their own supplements. It would be fully available online in hypertext formatting, which unless I'm mistaken is only partially available (legally) right now due to concerns over copyright. It would also allow the rules and tools, similar to GURPS Character Creator, to be available in one place as well.
Once a fully Public Domain clone is available, I would focus on putting together packages of curated rules that are all included in one place. Imagine something like DFRPG but a little more focused. These could be put together digitally and easily made available. I'm imagining rules-light variants of GURPS, with house rules and setting stuff included. These packages would be more like actual games, rather than genre-flavored versions of the base game.

>>96226676
>>96226705
>>96226758
I'm sorry istanbul fags but Constantinople is just a cooler name.

>>96225108
Homogenous does not mean the character doesn't have hit locations. An iron golem is homogenous, a tree spirit is homogenous, an undead skeleton is homogenous, etc. You can still target their limbs if they're less protected or to remove them.

>>96225089
>In cyberpunk games, I've found that melee can stay relevant simply due to cramped quarters and sharp 90-degree corners in urban locales
I don't agree all that much when it comes to GURPS, simply because it's so easy to move out of melee range - of course you can parry his shit if you get close enough, but still
>>96226676
Why couldn't we get an actual 1923-present Istanbul book

>>96226882
>I don't agree all that much when it comes to GURPS, simply because it's so easy to move out of melee range
I've sometimes done himpromptu house rules where if the player announces they're planning on keeping close with the enemy if he backs up or runs, he's able to move with him but his next attack's a run and attack.

>>96226902
I feel like backwards movement should be more heavily penalized
Even under Tactical Combat rules a guy with Move 5 can move completely out of melee range backwards

>>96226921
>Even under Tactical Combat rules a guy with Move 5 can move completely out of melee range backwards
I would be shocked if there's not already a rule about that

>>96226882
Fantasy Trip engagment rules: Getting out of melee range requires a DX roll, otherwise oponent get a free attack without you defending. Enganged peopld can only move around an engaged oponent at 1 hex per turn.

>>96226921
>>96226953
>>96226965
Doesn't moving backwards cost double? The average person could only go 2 hexes backwards, that's not enough to get out of melee range if you have a bigger sword like a longsword or a katana.
Plus there's the bulk penalties, pistol wielders can afford to just keep move & attacking every turn but longarm users are going to take like -4 to -6.
In actual play I've never seen a ranged guy come out well out of a melee fight just because he can waddle 2-3 hexes and fire at a penalty.

Is there a book that contains racial templates for a variety of fantasy races?

>>96227079
DF 1 has a few
DF3 next level has a bunch.
gurps fantasy
Those 3 have most of the relevant from elves to centaurs and fairies.
template toolkits should help make your own

>>96226991
Longarm users are fucked but generally a melee guy probably won't even have enough armor to resist a pistol shot

>>96226991
>The average person could only go 2 hexes backwards, that's not enough to get out of melee range if you have a bigger sword like a longsword or a katana.
Move 6 already makes you a fucking ninja, i.e. you can move three hexes backwards AND shoot. Your assailant can hope to make an AoA if he's fast/Move and Attack otherwise

>>96227098
Thanks!

>>96227205
We are assuming the gun user is trying to get out of hex to hex touching.
if he moves 3 hexes back he's making a move and attack already, so bulk will fuck his aim same as if he was still in melee range
meanwhile the katana guy takes one step and can make a regular attack at no penalty.
Now I'm not saying that guns aren't better than swords, they are better, but once you're in melee range, you're gonna eat the bulk penalty regardless of what happens.

>>96227158
Why? What makes you assume that a melee guy can't put on a bulletproof vest?

>>96227673
Armor is useless in GURPS because you can just shoot an unarmored body part

>>96227757
Anon this is a situation where you're already taking penalties from bulk due to being forced to either move and attack or stand in melee range, and you wanna take even more penalties to aim?
That's at least a -4 for the best case scenario of pistol user going for the arms or legs.

>>96227757
Armor was uselessly in real life because you can just stab an unarmored body part.

>>96227817
It's true, it's why true samurai never wore armor, their katanas would unfailingly find any unarmored spots and kill the enemy with a single battoujutsu slash.

Most helpful general on this board, thanks for being cool.

>>96227673
If we're talking cyberpunk then maybe he can, but generally speaking he'll probably want to travel light to avoid encumbrance

>>96227785
I would advocate for our gunman here to have high RoF since ranged Move and Attack has no skill cap unlike melee Move and Attack

>>96228168
The weapons that have high RoF would have a high bulk so I think it cancels out but I'm not gonna do the math lol.

>>96228192
Like the Micro-Uzi? Stock folded, it's Bulk -2, RoF 28 (more than its magazine capacity)

>>96228232
hmm, I didn't remember those tiny guns existed, good point.

>>96228242
Cyberpunk was heavily informed by 80's tacticool and 80's tacticool was pretty machine pistol heavy. The MAC 10 could achieve much the same thing here, or going more modern, the Steyr TMP or MP7

>>96228266
Guess it's over for melee. You either kill the guy first round or he backs away and magdumps you.
Funny thing how gurps works is that you could just keep the micro uzi ina fast draw holster and still use your rifle cause you could fast-draw the micro uzi while backing away and just spray and pray at the guys legs where there's no bulletproof vest.
I feel like that would be unrealistic but then again maybe not.

>>96228321
Cyberpunk is more about hyperrealism than actual realism, where you take traces of reality and amplify them to paranoid heights. You will own nothing, you will eat bugs, you will be a debt slave, and you will be happy. Corporations will consolidate and have stately ambitions, everyone is out to triple-cross you, and the system has commodified your resistance into a marketable t-shirt. Guns are lethal and you can shoot people before they get in close, so fast-drawing your miniaturized Chicago typewriter and sending a cease & desist to the strung-out gutter trash swinging at you with his vibro-blade is perfectly in line with the genre.

Do I need the mass combat rules for resolving a large force fighting a single entity?
For example, archers firing a volley of arrows at a dragon.
Otherwise, how should I go about doing this?

>>96228399
If I was going to bodge it, I would look up the number of archers on the SSR table to use as a bonus, make the number of archers the RoF, and make a single roll with the average skill of the unit, using the most common weapon's Rcl to calculate number of hits. My justification for using SSR instead of the rapid fire table is that I imagine 20 guys firing 1 arrow are somewhat more accurate than 1 guy firing 20 arrows.

>>96228321
Availability is what could keep machine pistols from being everyone's sidearm of choice. I recall that in Neuromancer the MC only has a shitty .22, but in GURPS we don't really have a codified way of keeping people away from certain equipment unlike Shadowrun. Maybe greatly increased GURPS $ costs and/or mandatory Streetwise rolls (I think that's in HT)

>>96228321
HT is sometimes a bit generous with the Bulk stat, I mean picrel is supposed to be -2, to which I will say "No."
That's like twice the size of a Glock 17, so -3 at best

>>96228890
that's the ugliest machine pistol I've ever seen lmao.
Also all this talk of guns and stuff makes me want to start a tacticool campaign. Shame I have terrible creativity and thus can only make fantasy quests and not modern plot lines.

>>96228932
Read a technothriller/adventure book and just ape the plotline

>>96228479
>but in GURPS we don't really have a codified way of keeping people away from certain equipment unlike Shadowrun.
We have legality class (LC). All it takes is the GM saying LC3/LC4 weapons only.

>>96228985
Yeah but in Shadowrun, too, legality is a separate issue.

>>96229008
I mean that is a codified way of keeping people away from certain equipment. I don't know what Shadowrun does in addition to legality that would make sense.

For rules purposes, should I assume Stormvermin are at minimum strength 13 if they’re able to wield halberds?

>>96229454
They could have levels of lifiting ST since that counts for ST requirements for weapons.

Speaking of warhammer, what are some good disadvantages for a beastman to have?
Bestial, berserk, bad temper and bully?

>>96230369
Lecherous
All my knowledge of warharmmer comes from the total war warhammer general btw

>>96229255
It has street availability, actually shocked it hasn't been covered in a Pyramid issue

>>96227911
Well considering where the samurai lived it probably wasn't hard to find chinks in armor

>>96228932
>Shame I have terrible creativity
Why do you think that anon?

>>96231091
I have tried many times to have modern campaigns, and they all run out of steam after a few sessions. Meanwhile, I have had several successful fantasy campaigns that went from start to a proper completion.
Fantasy is just easy, set up a dungeon full of treasure and monsters and everyone is happy. Modern stuff just... Requires more, and I can only think of more stuff for like 3-4 adventures tops.

>>96231225
Modern is generally harder to sell to players anyway

Is there a good rule of thumb for how much money/loot an army should get from raiding, sacking and generally warring with other nations?

>>96230369
I gave Gors
>Appearance (Montrous) [-20]; Bad Smell [-10]; Bad Temper, CR12 [-10]; Berserk, CR 12, (Battle Rage) [-15]Bully, CR12 [-10]; Callous [-5]; Gluttony, CR12 [-5]; Ham-fisted 1 [-5]; Jealousy [-10]; Lecherousness, CR12 [-15]; Sadism, CR12 [-15]; Short Attention Span, CR12 [-10].
As innate advantages, and then decreased CRs for most disads + Innumerate as cultural traits.

I have a woefully incomplete conversion document if you're interested.

>>96232459
I imagine ACKSfag has an answer for you, wherever he may be. You could also read ACKS yourself for one, which it most assuredly does have, but that would be tantamount to blasphemy in the Thread of Jackson. You may do so if you return with GURPS-ified rules and post seven Praise Kromm's.

>>96229454
Stormvermin 'halberds' are blatantly not full sized, reach 3 polearms. They are duelling halberds at best, and possibly could be something as pathetic as duelling glaives with extra spikes scaled for SM-1 users (I think regular skaven are in the SM-1 range, but stormvermin are larger than normal skaven, so may be back to SM 0).
Also, don't assume that everyone who uses a weapon has the ST to wield it at full skill. Or that they aren't using the Huge Weapons perk, etc.

>>96232459
GURPS Mass Combat p. 39: After a battle, the loot amounts to 20 percent of the cost to raise the defeated troops. Use the rules on Basic Set p. 518 to determine the value of captured troops as slaves. Captured troops who have high Status may be ransomable as well as enslaveable.

>>96233007
ACKS 2 Rulebook pp. 450, 471, and 483: After a battle or siege, the spoils amount to one month's wages (GURPS Mass Combat cost to maintain) for each destroyed or routed unit. Each prisoner is worth 40 GP (4000 GURPS dollars) if enslaved or ransomed. Casualties and prisoners can also be consumed as supplies by carnivorous units, at 10 GP (1000 G$) of meat per person.
Id. pp. 458 and 483: A captured domain (including a successfully sieged city) can be pillaged. Available spoils are as follows.
>Gold: 3d6 GP (1050 G$) per rural family, 10d6 GP (3500 G$) per urban family
>Supplies: 1d10*5 GP (2750 G$) per peasant family
>Prisoners: 1d10 (5.5) per 10 families
Note that ACKS 2 takes place in GURPS TL3. GURPS-dollar conversions may be different at different TLs.
Praise Kromm! Praise Kromm! Praise Kromm! Praise Kromm! Praise Kromm! Praise Kromm! Praise Kromm!

>>96233217
One "family" is equal to five people.

>>96233007
>>96233217
>>96233227
Thanks a ton

>>96232737
Interesting, I’ll have to revise my sheet. Thanks!

>>96226902
Same. I usually let players reserve unspent movement from their turn to follow a foe, or run up to a new foe that steps out from around a corner immediately before he makes his shot, or take out a loan on movement from their next turn if need be. I also allow sideslips against ranged attacks. Forward slips also work, but only if they bring the attacker within melee.

Bros. I think the system has gatekept me on account of how as the kids say "brainrotted" I am in not being able to sit the fuck down and read.
How do I fix myself so I can sit the fuck down and read all this stuff?
The fact that the TTRPG scene at the lgs is just DND isn't helping either.

>>96235157
While reading through the basic set is something you should 100% do, reading through especially all of characters, as if it was a regular book, is not the best use of your time starting out. I'd suggest doing what I did when I was learning GURPS, which was:

>Download GCS, get basic set characters open.
>Figure out a character you want to make in gurps, ideally something simple like a medieval crusader or a roman legionary.
>Work through basic set, adding things that seem relevant to your idea as you go through.
>When done, check your work with somebody or someplace that already knows GURPS, this general being a good option.
This will teach you the basics of how character building actually works, without forcing yourself to read and absorb GURPS' many, many advantages, disadvantages, and skills in one sitting without context. Once you've done this a few times, you'll have a selection of sheets which you can then use to learn combat by bashing them against eachother.

This is all easier if you have somebody who can mentor you in GURPS, but I think it can be done solo.

>>96235157
don't be afraid to ask questions here, this thread has been a huge help for me and learning the system

>>96229255
In Shadowrun, everything has an Availability rating and a Legality class. Legality works exactly like it does in GURPS, except it's denoted by a letter instead of a number (e.g., "(R)estricted", "(F)orbidden"). Meanwhile, Availability is the number you roll against in an Opposed Test to see if you can actually find the item on the street or black market.
Porting the concept to GURPS would require assigning an Availability score to every item. Quick and Dirty way of doing it might be to find the item's price on the Linear Measurement column of the SSR table, find the correlating Size modifier, add 10, subtract LC, subtract TL, then apply whatever modifiers the GM deems appropriate. Now you have an Availability rating.
To find the item while shopping, roll a Quick Contest of Administration, Area Knowledge, Research, and/or Streetwise vs. Availability. Offering to pay more than the usual going price gives a bonus, while trying to undercut gives a penalty; use the modifiers for Time Spent, but substitute "cash" for "time".
Success means you find it in a certain amount of time depending on its Availability, ranging from less than an hour for something worth less than 1% of average campaign starting wealth, to a month for something worth more than 1,000% of starting wealth. Critical success gets you the item almost instantly. Failure means you don't find it, and can't try again until the time above has passed. Critical failure means the feds, a rival gang, or someone else gets involved.

>>96235157
Start by building a character. Start with something stupid like 1,000 points and try to build a character who can do everything that you or one of your players thinks might be even slightly cool. Then go through the rules, imaginging yourself playing the game and how you would use each rule to do something cool as you read through them. That's how I get myself through the rulebook of any system.

>>96235157
Download GCS and play legos with characters until you slowly understand how things work and reading the book becomes a breeze and you can reference stuff in a matter of seconds.

>>96235317
I am pretty sure Abstract Wealth had something about availability of equipment

>>96235521
Looked it up and it apparently does, to an extent. It's not easy to convert for use outside Abstract Wealth though

>>96235317
I'd do it quicker and dirtier: -1 for LC3, -2 for LC2, -4 for LC1, -8 for LC0, and use Bulk as-is as a penalty (easy stand-in for weight and transportation for the logistical difficulty of having it in stock) or weight using the SSR table. So it'd be -4 for a TL9 UT machine pistol (LC2, Bulk -2), -7 to find a Reflex Tacsuit (LC2, 15 lbs.), -5 for thermobaric mini-grenades (LC1, Bulk -1), and impossible to find a combat walker without raiding a military base. The rest of your post stands, though.

>>96235771
>use Bulk as-is as a penalty (easy stand-in for weight and transportation for the logistical difficulty of having it in stock)
This makes too much sense, I like it. It at least makes sense for stuff that needs to be imported (locally sourced civilian long arms probably shouldn't have the bulk penalty)

>it's another over analyzing PU-9 to rearrange attributes episode

Don't know why I keep doing it but I do it at least once a month

>>96236926
Based

>>96235128
You know, for a system that's old enough to be my father that started out as a pure medieval melee combat thing, you would think this issue would've been addressed at some point.

>>96236997
That's a bit more beefy, mine is mostly trying to make they all look the same. Doubt I will be able to convince my table to use it, but if any case I will use it for my PC game.

Damn, swamp gators got some bite to them and decent dodge.

>>96237194
why would you ever pick combat reflexes if it didn't give defense bonuses?
>>96236997
>making HT overpriced for aesthetic reasons

>>96237652
>>making HT overpriced for aesthetic reasons
15 points, 20 points--same difference.

>>96237673
5 points is a huge difference wtf
Might as well let characters get a few levels of free improved parry since it's only 5 points right?

>>96237652
Not freezing in surprises plus +6 to get out of mental stun. Also bonus to fright check and initiative.

>>96235157
A /lit/ anon once said that reading is like a muscle. If you're consistent each day you will read more later, until you're reading at the woods from sunrise to sunset and the police flag you for a murder because they don't believe you.
Playing the game is usually the best method to learn the rules. Luckily with GURPS, if something feels off or doesn't make sense it's because it is supported by another rule.

>>96237194
I'm curious as to the difference between Dexterity and Agility in terms of skills. Are all previous Dexterity skills just under DX now, making boosting it for skill purposes half as pricy as it used to be? Parry/Block also working as a bonus on Basic Defense is gonna make those scores a lot higher than usual, probably, which will change combat quite a bit.

>>96238075
Agility would affect most movement related skills (Stealth, Acrobatics, Climbing) plus substitute for DX in situations that involve balance. Yes, I want to boost defenses a bit since I never quite understood why the base one is so pricey when Combat Reflexes give you +1 in everything for only 15, though I would cap it at not getting higher than base attack skill + 3, I suppose.

>>96237652
I regularly take combat reflexes despite it not being very relevant with how I play High Tech. The bonuses to not be brutally stunned by ambushes are great.

>>96237910
>Luckily with GURPS, if something feels off or doesn't make sense it's because it is supported by another rule.
Plenty of shit that doesn't make sense anyway but less so than other systems, that's why I have stuck with GURPS.
>tfw reading Millennium's End
>what do you mean this game entirely about armed spooks doesn't have weapon concealment rules?!

What do misses mean to you? Not active dodges, but attack roll misses?

In games with just one roll this has always been easy to interpret for me: for instance, in d&d, when you roll to attack you are rolling to land a solid blow on your enemy, and this chance is automatically modified by your opponents armour class, which includes things like his armor and dodging ability. "Missing" in this case simply means your blow wasn't effective, either because it was dodged, because it bounced off armour / a shield, etc.

In GURPS however, I'm not really sure how to see it. It obviously can't always be a miss, you'd have to be superbly incompetent to thrust wide of your opps torso in melee combat for instance. In cannot represent a swing to the shield or armor bounces either, because those are accounted for in active defenses. It can't mean that "the opportunity to strike simply didn't present itself, so technically there was no strike attempt in the first place", because weapons go unready even after failed attacks. What the fuck is the correct interpretation then?

>>96233217
Note that default monthly cost to maintain in GURPS mass combat is 20% of cost to raise, so cost to maintain and value if looted are identical for average troops with basic equipment and no weird features. This is consistent with ACKS2 (I suspect that one copied from the other, but it's also possible that both did their homework and there is an actual source for these numbers).

>>96237496
In the animal album I gave them DX 12, but didn't bother to make a note to myself about the reasoning behind that. I think I copied from Luke Campbell and assumed he knew what he was talking about because he's very keen on reptiles. However, alligators don't strike me as graceful creatures, certainly not as agile as wolves, so maybe he's just a bit too enthusiastic about reptiles.

>>96239175
A miss is always a miss. Don't forget that, by default, attacks made are not easily read and still allow you to defend yourself afterwards. With a skill level of 12 or higher, you shouldn't be missing all that much outside of penalties, which easily explain away why you missed.

>>96239451
I was thinking about it more, and I reached the conclusion that the only way attack misses actually make sense, is if you consider the attack to have been so poorly executed, that the opponent could dodge / block / parry with little to no effort (therefore no active defense roll has been made.) This makes sense against your skill, but still leaves a lot to be desired. It also doesn't work that great with ranged weapons (you'd really have to try to miss 50% of your shots with a pistol at a skill of 10 - which would even be slightly above average - at 1yd range), but that's the best explanation I can come up with.

There's a thread discussing this in the SJG forums, but for some reason it just derails into discussions about rules, so it's pretty useless, and no consensus is reached on what the RAW is meant to represent.

For as wonderful as GURPS is, I find the concept of active defenses to be generally terrible in any game. But you also can't homebrew it away that easily because each point in a 3d6 system does not equal a flat percentage change.

>>96239544
Sometimes you just strike badly.

>>96239175
According to Kromm, a miss without an active defense means you just had second thoughts and didn't strike.

>>96239175
Anything. Sometimes I represent that by the knife blade just barely scratching the defender, or the attack tangling in something in the environment or on either character. Sometimes it's both targets dancing around to not get stabbed, and it happens that, unintended by any party, a bit of movement worked as an entirely unintended juke.

Also, fighting is normally a situation where your life is on the line. It's not a schoolyard brawl or a mosh pit, both of you are trying to kill the other guy before he kills you. Mistakes happen under those conditions, even ones you would never imagine yourself making normally.

>>96239735
Which is retarded because you still lose ammo and your weapon still goes unready.

>>96239544
>you'd really have to try to miss 50% of your shots with a pistol at a skill of 10 - which would even be slightly above average - at 1yd range
On the shooting range yeah, or against the berry bush in your backyard, but that effective 10 is with you positioning yourself such that you're able to attempt to dodge any incoming attack.

Irl most shooting, especially the shooting you're imagining, is all out attack (determined). They're not moving, they're not dodging and weaving, they're not eyeballing the entire enemy squad prepping to jump to the right or left depending on who decides to shoot at them. They're normally stationary and might as well be blind toward anything besides their target.

That's not to mention the fact that the shooting you're imagining also involves active aiming. Firearms attacks without actively aiming in GURPS are basically snapshots of one kind or another, some of which are literally not using sights.

Give your gurps character's the bonus for aiming, and the very very sizable bonus for not being in mortal peril and without time pressure involved, and they'll make those shots a lot more than 50 percent of the time.

>>96239544
I think your mechanical understanding of GURPS is lacking and that you're getting hung up over a non-issue because of it.

>>96240045
It's not a mechanical question, it's an interpretative one, and it's not just me: https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=160483 here's the thread I mentioned before.

>>96239544
>I find the concept of active defenses to be generally terrible in any game.
Why is that?

>>96240066
And your question is answered mechanically, because you don't understand skill levels. Someone who has only put a single point into a skill is a step above ignorant, a hobbyist at best. Conscripts and police are common examples because they receive the bare minimum training to be proficient enough to do their job. Both are well-known to be very poor shots, with multiple reports of exchanges between officer and armed suspect going entire magazines at two yards without a single hit. This is a skill level between 9 and 11. They aren't even considered professionals until a skill level of 12, and they have other skills more demanding of that level, such as Camouflage or Computer Operation, both of which are Easy skills, and thus easier to train and become a professional in with minimal investment. If you are missing a lot in combat, you are unlucky, fighting in poor conditions, or not an amateur in a dangerous situation.

>>96240153
You are telling me that a trained (albeit rookie) police officer will miss 50% of their shots on average at 2yds without the target trying to dodge in any way. I just don't believe that.

But even if we accept that, it doesn't really work for melee. If you have two completely untrained bozos duking it out with fists, they aren't going to each other 50% of the time. Remember you cannot use the target's agility as a passive additional chance to miss because these 50% don't depend on the target.

>>96240235
>a trained (albeit rookie) police officer
That's wishful thinking, most policemen are bad shots today, and that's a big improvement over what it was years ago.

>>96240235
>I just don't believe that.
GURPS is quite generous, actually:
>For decades, statistics have shown that law enforcement officers do miserably when engaged in close quarters combat shooting incidents with rates of accurately hitting their adveisaries at 15% to 19%.
>"Close Quarters Combat Shooting" by Yvon Guillaume

>>96238363
>I want to boost defenses a bit since I never quite understood why the base one is so pricey when Combat Reflexes give you +1 in everything for only 15
Well Combat Reflexes is undercosted is why. It should cost at least 30 points minimum given Enhanced Dodge+Block+Parry (All weapons) comes out to 30 points.
As to WHY enhancing defenses is so expensive, it's because having a 13/14 to Parry or Dodge makes you really, really, really hard to hit unless the opponent specifically swarms you with a whole mob of enemies or uses undefendable attacks. Attack Skill+3 would "cap" it at like 17, which is insane.
>>96239544
>>96240235
You vastly overestimate how easy it is to hit someone, even at close distances, in a combat situation. People miss a LOT. There are a lot of unaccountable elements that go beyond the target attempting to dodge - like the fact that in closer quarters BOTH of you are probably actively moving around and trying to get at each other, like the fact your attention has to be split to regard your opponent's weapon as well, et cetera. For melee brawling, it's even easier to accommodate the 'miss chance' outside of dodging - you simply hit the opponent ineffectually. You knuckle-graze him. You swing at an awkward angle and can't get the right force behind it. Et cetera.

>>96240235
They're going to do glancing blows that can't inflict more than superficial bruises. They're going to misjudge their distance and stop an inch short, or only impact with the last 10th of an inch of travel of their fist and do nothing. Or they'll just miss. I've seen it haplen.

Also most untrained fighters do stupid shit like all-out-attack (determined) for +4 to hit, reducing their miss chance to something pretty low but guaranteeing their opponent can line up a devastating punch afterward.

The other anon is right, there's a lot to this you're not understanding.

If I wanted to make templates for dinosaurs, can I calculate their probable strength by looking at how much they have been estimated to weigh?
Or should I just use the dinosaurs supplement from GURPS 3rd?

>>96240304
>Also most untrained fighters do stupid shit like all-out-attack (determined) for +4 to hit, reducing their miss chance to something pretty low but guaranteeing their opponent can line up a devastating punch afterward.
This is well reflected in real historical melee fighting. A guy who doesn't know what he's doing is quite dangerous because he'll stab you by (unknowingly) opening himself up to a killing blow to do it.

>>96240311
GURPS Lands Out of Time has Fourth Edition dinosaur templates.

>>96240333
(Though they're somewhat cinematic templates, as noted in the introduction.)

>>96240338
That's fine, dinosaurs are cinematic nta nature since they're mythological

>>96240333
Thanks!

>>96240303
I just don't buy it, not for melee. 50% chance to miss outright without your opponent doing anything is pretty fucking bad. Idle movement alone isn't going to account for that.

>I've seen it happen.
It definitely happens, just not 50% of the time. You've also never seen the base 50% to hit, you've seen that plus the other person's ability to dodge. It's not comparable. Same with the police example, hitting 19% doesn't necessarily mean the other person wasn't trying to dodge. It doesn't tell the full story (although 19% is ridiculously low, and I can't help but think something else was going on with that study).

>>96240304
>They're going to do glancing blows that can't inflict more than superficial bruises.
Glancing blows aren't compatible with the rules because of touch effects. That's the thing, it has to be a miss miss. See:
>Missed attack rolls aren't blows that hit with insufficient force. Too many things in GURPS (Melee spells, Contact Agents, etc.) rely on a mere touch for that to be a good ruling. Blows that connect weakly are things like successful attack rolls met by unarmed parries that prevent all damage*, and successful attack rolls met by failed defense rolls where the ensuing damage roll fails to penetrate DR.

>Also most untrained fighters do stupid shit like all-out-attack (determined) for +4 to hit
That's a good one.

>there's a lot to this you're not understanding.
Again, it's not just me, see the post I mentioned from one of the editors:
>You failed at your roll to capitalize on an opening and/or seize the initiative, so you stood there doing nothing but defending.

>>96240398
>(although 19% is ridiculously low, and I can't help but think something else was going on with that study).
Disrespectfully anon, do you have any idea what you're talking about on that topic?

>>96240418
Disrespectfully, as I mentioned, I played paintball for a few years when I was younger, with weapons much bulkier than a pistol, and certainly nowhere near 200 hours of training, and the chance to hit / get hit at 2yd wasn't 50% (although that scenario rarely came up).

Also disrespectfully, I have experience with competitive martial arts, and I know two yellow belts fighting aren't going to miss each other that much. They will be slower though, and will more easily parry each other. Now admittedly, that experience is in score based fights where hit = score, which may change the dynamic a bit.

I can also tell you from a lot of experience that two kids fighting at the playground - which may be a more comparable scenario to an actual brawl - aren't going to miss each other very often either, typically what happens there is that they'll just keep fighting and pummeling each other until one of them yields, or there will be grapples in the mix. Very very few blows just go wide of the target. I'm not sure if you've ever thrown a punch before in a fight, but it's really not that easy to miss that. You don't have a 50% chance to *aim* a punch to the face correctly.

So yeah, I have some experience. Not much, certainly not with swords, and the last time I fired a handgun was when I was 18, but some.

>>96240454
>You don't have a 50% chance to *aim* a punch to the face correctly.
ESPECIALLY if the opponent is unaware of you, which is another thing with gurps. That 50% chance also counts if the other guy is unaware, and there's no active fighting and moving, so please explain that part.

>>96240235
>You are telling me that a trained (albeit rookie) police officer will miss 50% of their shots on average at 2yds without the target trying to dodge in any way. I just don't believe that.

Yes, reason explained in the small corner of a page extract from Tank Vixens #2

>>96239932
I don't know what Kromm said, but Pyramid 3/34 has an article with combat tweaks and one of them covers that specifically.
>Misses by 1 or 2 mean you hesitate, and you don't suffer the consequences of the attack

>>96240454
>I played paintball
You can't know how accidentally funny a response this is to my statement, thank you so much for posting it.

>>96240481
Why is that funny? A "paintball" skill would use the exact same rules as the other weapons. It would still be ranged combat. Would would be the excuse then?

>>96240454
Every single situation you mentioned had a +4 for being "no risk to life and limb" or whatever it's called which turns that 10 into a 14.

>>96240497
>It would still be ranged combat
There's a difference between sports skills and combat skills anon.

>>96240497
>Why is that funny?
You'll understand when you're older anon. One day you'll be in our shoes, long after every party to this discussion has forgotten it entirely, and you'll see someone say something that confidently smacks of outright inexperience with a vital aspect of the topic.

>>96240497
>It would still be ranged combat.
Only if both you and your opponent were using paintballs filled with contact poison.

>>96240509
I can buy that being the case for the kids brawling, but that's about it. You don't need to put yourself at risk to throw an accurate punch.

>>96240511
Not according to GURPS. It would still be shooting skill, the rules wouldn't automatically change just because it's a paintball gun using paintball skill.

>>96240529
you learned karate art, not karate as a combat skill. And in every case you get the +4 for no risk to life and limb.
>You don't need to put yourself at risk to throw an accurate punch
That has nothing to do with it, I'm not talking about all-out attack.

>>96240556
I didn't, I learned both competitive karate and karate art. They are very very different things. I specifically said competitive.

>>96240574
>TASK DIFFICULTY
>0 – Average. Most adventuring tasks, and the majority of skill use under stress. Example: A Driving roll in a
car chase.
>+1 – Favorable. Tasks that most people would hesitate at, due to the risk,
but that a career adventurer would regard as easy.
A road rally is at +1.
>+2 or +3 – Very Favorable. Mildly risky tasks that most people would undertake without hesitation.
>+4 or +5 – Easy. Most mundane tasks, including rolls made by ordinary people at day-to-day jobs.
Most of your life you have been rolling with a +4, that includes competitive karate, paintball, and anything that doesn't involve actual risks.
Unless you're gonna tell me you've been to the equivalent of a car chase where you risk your life to pursue a criminal or escape from cops, you haven't ever done anything at +0.

>>96240589
Disingenuous as fuck. You actually think RAW would give a +4 to all shooters in a played out paintball, or a karate match, or a boxing match, etc. Ok, cool interpretation, I guess. Give then +4 to all defenses too then.

>>96240574
>both competitive karate and karate art
That's Karate Sport and Karate Art. In GURPS combat sports are precise, fast, low-powered hits in order to score points. You don't want to hurt your opponent. Karate Art is kata and the other impressive performances.
The Karate skill assumes you're fighting for your life. Your opponent has a fucking knife and will stab you. This is an entirely different scenario than being in front of a judge.
Why are the other skills needed in GURPS? It's to represent training in more detailed campaigns, and points put into those skills can justify perks and unusual techniques.

>>96240454
>Paintball
not life or death, +4
aiming, +1 for the paintball gun in HT
all-out determined +4
I will believe you and say you are going at default, -4
DX 10
that ends at a 15, 95,4% chance
>Martial arts
not life or death, +4
evaluate, +1
I will assume DX-1 Karate, or 2 points spent, some training but still with much to learn, as would be the case for a yellow belt
DX 10
final skill of 14, 90,7% chance to hit
>brawl
not life or death, +4
all-out determined +4
DX 9
17, you have to roll a critical failure to miss

>>96240620
>+4 to defenses
defenses are part of skill, so yeah, that would trickle down to +2 parry
>disingenuous
Go search the forums for Kroms take on it, he very clearly says that under normal conditions you get bonuses to most skills, and specifically combat skills when used for sport or non-deadly situations. That is how gurps is designed. I don't know why you're mad at this.
This isn't just about combat, that is for every skill. The average worker doing their job usually is operating at +4 or +5.
+0 is strictly for adventuring tasks, and I mean no disrespect to you, but you are not an adventurer.

>>96240635
>brawl
>not life or death, +4
Read the rules, instead of speculating:
Your unmodified skill level is
called your base skill. It measures your
odds of success at an “average” task
under adventuring conditions – in
other words, in a stressful situation
where the consequences of failure are
significant. Some examples:

• Battles and chase scenes.
• Races against the clock.
• Situations where your health,
freedom, finances, or equipment is at
risk.

Read the rules next time.

>>96240646
Same goes to you. Read the rules. Combat is not a normal circumstance. If this were the case, a cop who's been working for 10+ years would have a +1 to every battle roll on the job. Most people wouldnt "undertake combat" of any kind "without hesitation". You can get hurt in that shit. Chances are small, of course, but they happen, it's not like you're super relaxed doing it. It's also not in the spirit of the game at all, a test of skills between two people is not the same as overcoming a passive obstacle. Nobody would give you +3 on your chess skill to impress the maiden so you can bed her for the night for a +1 on her father's reaction roll, even if you played chess every day of your life (this would be reflected in your skill level).

>>96240685
>. Read the rules
I literally quoted the rules
>combat
A karate match is not combat.
>cops
They are at risk in their jobs so they don't get the +4, yeah, that's what we have been saying the entire time. The average cop accuracy is not really great, which makes sense, since they're not rolling at +4.
> a test of skills between two people
Both would be at +4 so it is still a test of skill.

>>96239344
Mine had a dodge of 11 and felt too lucky dodging with that.

>>96235275
>>96235280
>>96235352
>>96235515
>>96237910
Thanks guys. I'll start with making a character and hopefully from there the motivation to read but actually retain information comes back to me. I remember reading Warrior Cats as a kid so I need to retrain my reading muscles.

I like this new sperg we picked up, he's very entertaining. Much more fun than 80 points in guns guy.

>>96240311
>If I wanted to make templates for dinosaurs, can I calculate their probable strength by looking at how much they have been estimated to weigh?
Yes, you can. There are a few which should have some tweaks (e.g. T. rex should have weak arms and striking ST for its bite) but it's generally how the actual books do it and it works fine.

>>96240333
LOoT dinosaurs have a lot of issues, like the T. rex being tiny, before even considering that it is badly researched with the excuse of being 'cinematic' (without actually emulating any real cinematic conventions).

>>96240780
How did they get that? Combat Reflexes and Speed 7? Even with the inflated DX of 12, that implies HT 16, which is crazy.
There's a massive gap between Dodge 9 and Dodge 11. I wouldn't recommend giving anything which isn't famous for dodging better than a 10.

>>96240311
If you've got some specific ones you want stats for, I can do a write-up. Already done T. rex and Allosaurus, reading up on ceratopsians now.

>>96243316
That's what it says for the stats of the swamp alligator in the Hydra Island adventure in Pyramid 3-108.

>>96240454
The problem seems to be that attacks are going at skill 10, instead of using bonuses to bring you to 14-16 as you should be doing. I disagree with the anons going on about task difficulty modifiers because you really don't need them:
>Telegraphic Attack gives +4.
>AoA (Determined) gives +4.
>Evaluate gives +1 per second (and even then most people houserule for it to give more).
>Misses by 1 or 2 can represent hesitations (Pyramid #3/34)
Assuming DX 10 and skill equal to DX, you can Telegraphic Attack or AoA (Determined) for skill 14. You hit on a 14 or lower, hesitate on a 15 or 16, and only truly miss on a 17 or 18.

>>96240713
just to end the debate on skill bonuses: Actual quote from the line editor of gurps, saying that you only roll at +0 on an actual adventure. No one posting on a 4chan general has ever had an adventure, so everyone is posting on 4chan with a +4 to their shitposting roll at the very least.

Which means the average poster must be rolling at default considering the average post quality
Source: https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=127816&page=2

>get lost in the woods
>fail 3 days worth of survival checks
>fall to 0 hp
Things look dire

>>96243668
Time for divine intervention. Spend a CP to guarantee a success or something

>>96243668
Time to employ other skills. Any ranged skills like Guns or Bow? Trapping? Fishing? Well, if you did you wouldn't be in this situation. But it might just be time to pick a direction and start walking until you find something like civilization.

>>96243668
Have you considered starting a fire? Maybe a conflagration will summon help, as long as you have a nearby source of water to hide in as the fire burns.

>>96243454
You mean the same dimwit who confidently said missing should be interpreted as doing nothing even though that's completely incompatible with the rules? Wow, I sure trust him.

Let's see
>And even in the Third World, the vast majority of what ordinary clinicians deal with day in, day out would give the +4 or +5 for being totally routine. Working there may be stressful, but much of the work is rote.
Ok, fair. Them give your battle hardened berzerkers +4 to every role during combat. They have defeated hundreds of opponents after all, it's more than routine to them.
>But it doesnt count because there's risk involved
And a brain surgeon has no financial risk (or at the very least mental risk) when operating on a patient, right? Because failing at your job comes with no repercussions.

>>96243972
>picks surgery, the one profession where life is in fact at risk and thus doesn't get the "No risk" bonus
are you stupid?
No, the brain surgeon doesn't get the "No risk" bonus, but he does get the various equipment bonuses unless he's doing brain surgery at the shittiest hospital there is.
Why is it so hard to accept that using karate as a sport and using karate to fight off some dude with a knife trying to kill you are treated differently in GURPS?

>>96243972
Brain surgery practice done on hyper realistic training tools, or done on cadavers, or maybe done on animals that would be put down immediately after anyway probably get +4 for no risk.

>>96243668
Time to use mimicry and get an animal friend to guide you out of the woods

>>96243668
GURPS survival rules are stupidly harsh. A normal, untrained person shouldn't be taking an average of 3 HP injury every day in ordinary wilderness on top of starvation, dehydration, etc. 2d-4 FP for a combination of dehydration, starvation, heatstroke, freezing, etc. might be reasonable on an ordinary failure, with HP loss being reserved for critical failures. Even that might be too much, considering that even amateurs are quite likely to be fine if they have decent equipment (which is unlikely to give a bonus big enough to succeed on a Per-5 default).

How do square obsession without letting it overshadow the campaign?
For instance a merchant ship captain with an obsession for hunting down a specific space whale.
How would he both follow his obsession and keep transporting freight?

>>96245175
He transports freight, but at the slightest hint of his white space-whale, he goes off course to harpoon the beast.

>>96243668
Huh, I just looked up foraging rules (B427) and you get five rolls per day for foraging and five for hunting. You're telling me you failed fifteen or thirty rolls in a row? That's some shitty luck.

>>96244877
I think it might be survival while working toward a goal, not just sitting there waiting to be rescued.

>>96243344
I don't know if I've ever seen an alligator dodge, but the stats work fine. 3+7(Speed)+1(Combat Reflexes). I get that they want the alligator to be able to quickly ambush people, but i feel like camouflage would have been a better way to accomplish that. I've often enough seen people easily pull their hands back from snapping alligator jaws for them to be speed 7.

Besides DF and After the End, are there survival rules anywhere else?

>>96244193
>are you stupid?
Are you? Many jobs have stressful and non-routine components to them, and all those tasks have a financial risk. Why can't you accept that "adventuring conditions" doesn't actually mean shit? And no, someone who is extremely unfamiliar with a task wouldn't get a +4 bonus to do it , even if it isn't combat. That's not how people play the game. Never has been, never will be. read the fucking rules motherfucker, page 345 shits all over you:

+2 or +3 – Very Favorable. Mildly
risky tasks that most people
would undertake without hesitation. Example: A Driving roll to
commute to work in a teeming
metropolis.
>Hurr driving to work is as comfortable as picking up a new skill because you're not under stress
Not only is this not true, but there is a modifier for stress.

Read the fucking book. Read it. Page 346:
Example: Someone who never
learned to drive is using Driving at its
DX-5 default. For him, an everyday
commute – “Easy” (+4 or +5) for a
trained driver – would be “Average”
(DX) or even “Unfavorable” (DX-1),
and almost certainly a stressful
experience!

And the other retard should read the book he worked on too.

>>96246293
Low-Tech Companion 3 (and maybe 1?) have some bits, though those are more just raw historical info than usable mechanics. There's also "Survival at the End" (Pyramid #3/90), which adds a few things to AtE's survival rules for those than want a bit more detail.

>>96246349
The Emerald Hell (Pyramid 3/95) has some jungle-specific rules. I bet there are a few more scattered in Pyramid articles here and there.

>>96246349
GURPS really needs a compilation guide for all the extra stuff for each line they stick into Pyramid and never touch again.

Just checked the starvation rules and they are incredibly bad. Realistically, people can stay moderately active after at least a week without food, and alive for a month or more even without being especially fat to begin with. In GURPS, just one week without food, an average person is effectively in a coma (unconscious and unable to wake up until they regain FP, which they can't do until they get three meals) and will die within another week or so without a feeding tube or equivalent.
Dehydration also seems a bit harsh, although not quite as bad. I've seen patients go for quite a while on less than 1000 ml a day and while it isn't sustainable long term, I don't think they are losing the real-world equivalent of 4 FP and 1 HP every day. That would put them into permanent (barring medical intervention) unconsciousness in 5 days and kill them a few days later. If they weren't eating either, it would be 7 FP and 1 HP per day, enough for unconsciousness in 3 days and death in a week. In reality, it's not unusual to see even frail people go for 3 days with nothing but a few cups of water and not even have their vitals or blood results be out of range.

>>96246429
User Trachmyr on the SJG forums has an alternate set of starvation rules:
>At the end of a day that you do not get adequate nutrition, make an HT roll (with appropriate penalties, see below); failure indicates the loss of 1 FP, or 2 FP if the margin of failure was 3+. Recover 1 FP lost through starvation each day you receive proper nutrition.
>A normal human requires 3 meals worth of food and 1 hour in the day to eat, apply a -1 to the roll for each meal you missed in the day;. A Skinny build gives an additional -2, an Overweight build gives a +2, a Fat or Very Fat build gives a +3 to the roll. The GM may impose additional modifiers from the environment or exertion, such as a +1 for no physical activity at all, to -3 for extreme activity, or -1 for extreme cold.
>Once FP reaches 0, any critical failure also reduces both ST and HT by one. To regain lost attributes, you must first recover all lost fatigue due to starvation, then continue to be properly nourished for an additional 1d days for each attribute point regained (you may choose the order in which the points are restored).
>Regardless of success or failure, you still lose a quarter of a pound of weight per meal of food missed, or up to double this for very high levels of exertion. If starvation persists long enough, it will alter your Build (B.18), which will change the modifiers to your roll.

What levels do Olympic athletes work at? Skills and attributes level I mean.

>>96246384
The trove has an "In These Issues" file that matches your criteria.

>>96246761
Stats 12-15 and skills 15-20

>>96246761
>>96246900
Dubs are basically correct. Once-in a lifetime world-class athletes in stat-heavy contests (e.g. weightlifting) might be 16 or even 17 in a stat and I'm willing to believe there are a few people who have skills over 20 in the extremely competitive skill-based ones (e.g. fencing), but most olympians can probably be done with attributes of 15 or less and skills of 20 or less.

>>96246936
60 points for DEX 13 another 18 points for Fencing 17.
leaves 22 points for 11 Average skills like driving a car and paying taxes.

No, what you want is
DEX 14 [80]
Fencing 19 [22]
Code of Honour (Sports) [-5]
Jealousy [-10]
Obsession (Winning) [-5]
9 more Average skills

>>96246761
stats 9 - 10, skills 10 - 11

>4e eggplant didn't deliver
baka

>>96248979
I'm still trying to think of a name for the blog actually

>>96248979
>>96249051
>>96224301
https://frankengurps.blogspot.com/
Even if my mage system isn't to your taste, unless I fucked up, the spells can be used as normal advantages regardless.

>>96246761
>>96246900
>>96246936
>>96247000
>>96247032
Remember that there is a difference between 'Olympic athlete' (possibly not even the best in their country) and 'best in the world'. Plenty of Olympic athletes are far below the standard of world-record holders, because their country doesn't have anyone better to send.

I like 75-100 point characters. 150+ start to feel too powerful for my taste. Can’t imagine playing 250+, or the recommended 350 for fantasy heroes.
What am I missing out on?

>>96251636
Based and henchman-pilled

>>96251873
Nothing, if you want grounded starter characters. 150 is already the mark where it's start to get cinematic. The whole 250 template is a Kromm thing because he thinks all PCs should be superheroes in his games.

>>96252039
meant to quote >>96251636

is playing without disadvantages bad?

>>96252170
Yes. You have a weaker character, which often means less fun to play compared to party members with more points, and in exchange your character is also far more bland, because disadvantages are the key thing that defines most gurps characters. They're very important. If you mean from a GM perspective, banning them all is retarded, banning the ones you don't like is completely fine.

and by that I mean, what will my players be missing out on that would have otherwise enriched their experience?

>>96252210
Said it in my reply here >>96252207 but playing around disadvantages is one of the fun aspects of GURPS, and its what avoids every character feeling like an amorphous blob. The amount of disadvantages you allow is up to you, but disallowing them altogether is a bit insane. They are often the most memorable, and most defining, aspects of a character.

>>96251636
Not that much mechanically, since more powerful characters tend to face more powerful threats. You get more toys to play with and bigger numbers, but those toys and numbers exist to offset the enemies toys and numbers.

I will say that there tends to be more breadth outside of your PC's chosen niche, with all but the most hyperfocused sword-autist type characters excelling in their field while also being very competent (compared to average folk) in others; a 250-point warrior should obvious excel at combat, but he can also hold his own on social situations, sneak around without being a liability, survive in the woods for a week, etc.

>>96252170
A bit, I guess? Outside of the points they give you, disadvantages have two purposes. Firstly, they give the GM a hook they can use to engage your character in the story. Secondly, they help a character feel more real; if you don't have a single flaw or weird personality quirk, it's a little odd.

>>96252210
Yeah, disadvantages give a character depth and lead to fun situations.

>>96252316
>Not that much mechanically, since more powerful characters tend to face more powerful threats. You get more toys to play with and bigger numbers, but those toys and numbers exist to offset the enemies toys and numbers.
You don't actually need to do that though. It's perfectly fine for more competent characters to be able to succeed more and compromise less. Just scaling problems and opposition so that they have to accept the same final odds and make the same hard choices that weaker characters do actually makes the entire concept of 'gritty' and 'heroic' games kind of redundant, which reduces the range of stories you can experience.

>>96252170
Yeah. You could still have all the roleplaying and character background aspects of your PC even without mechanical disadvantages, but they add a lot. Forcing you to deal with those problems even in situations where you would otherwise choose not to is usually more of a positive than it is a negative.

I have a problem, GURPSgen. I love making GURPS characters, but there is no way I will be able to play all of them, nor even use most of them in a game I run. What do I do with all these niggas sitting in my GCS files?

>>96253329
Post them here, alternatively, post them on GCS-cord

>>96253329
Make them fight eachother, thunderdome style. Find other players to control the opponent if you can.

>>96253455
>discord
cringe

>>96253475
Unfortunately is the only way the devs talk to the public.

>>96252696
That’s a lot of baseless extrapolation from what I actually said. Let me see if I can do that too.

Having PCs carve through cardboard enemies that present no threat gets really boring really quickly. A game like that is neither gritty nor cinematic (both of which have way more to do with tone than power level), it’s just a dull, masturbatory power fantasy as where your players don’t even need to engage in the game to win every contest or obtain victory in every combat. When success is all but assured, the dice and the decisions surrounding them are merely set dressing, the latter easily dismissed and the former kept around only because you like the sound of plastic clattering against cheap veneer.

Wow, yeah it’s actually a lot of fun to assume people with different opinions online are just morons. Taking the least charitable impression of their message and throwing back an argument against the strawman you’ve built in your head is super satisfying, I can see why everyone does it.

>>96251636
Power

>>96198594 (OP)
I just want to come here to pay my respects. I kneel. I'm a simulationist at heart but I lean more toward Mythras, ACKS, and Forbidden Lands.

Whenever anybody asks for what is probably "objectively" the greatest system in terms of fulfilling a complete simulation, GURPS is the answer.

I kneel.

>>96252207
>>96252238
>>96252316
>>96252623
>>96252826
You guys make some good points which I guess should have been obvious to me from the start.
In my defense, newbie gm though.
I'll let them take disadvantages.

Should horses have lower HT? Of course they should have FP and Speed, but if a man could be killed by breaking his legs he would have HT significantly below 10.

>>96255490
>if a man could be killed by breaking his legs
...Do you think horses explode or something when they break their legs?

>>96255497
You think they don't?

Been playing for half a dozen sessions now. I still don't like how the ST Damage Table seems to follow no particular pattern. I'm running a high-powered campaign with PCs whose ST scores can change dramatically on a turn-by-turn basis, so it's a hassle to look up the table every time. I'd rather there be a single mathematical formula for each column so I can just do mental math to figure damage. The problem is that I don't know what formula would be most appropriate.
1d-2/1d at ST 10 implies that Thr/Sw should be 1d/2d per 20 ST, but that feels way too weak for how pricey Striking ST is.
101d/103d at ST 1,000 implies that Thr/Sw should be around ~1d/1d per 10 ST, which is more price appropriate. But it still doesn't feel right, because what's the point of Swing damage then?
2d+2/5d at ST 25 implies that Thr/Sw should be 1d/2d per 10 ST, which seems like the best deal. It still feels a bit pricey compared to something like Innate Attack, but Striking ST works with all weapons, not just one attack, so that's fair, I guess. At the same time, it might feel too strong, because an untrained fighter at human-level ST can fairly easily kill someone of equal ST with only half a dozen punches. Although, that was also a problem with the original Damage Table, just with slightly more punches. I recalled that some anon from a prior thread came up with a simplified Conditional Injury rule that remedied this, so I'm thinking about implementing that.

Would a character take an obviously suicidal action in pursuit of their obsession?

>>96256815
Only if they fail their self control roll

>>96256646
Thrust is basically +1 per 2 ST with each die being 'worth' four +1 raises.
Swing is also +1 per 2 ST except for ST 9-26 where it is +1 per 1 ST.
Then everything gets fucked up around ST 40 until ST 70, when it settles on +10 ST being +1d to both thrust and swing.
Knowing Your Own Strength (Pyramid 3/83) makes things a lot simpler. Not necessarily realistic, but way easier to recalculate in play. Swing damage is just (ST-6)/4 dice (with fractions of .25, .5, and .75 being +1, +2, and +1d-1) and thrust damage is just swing damage -2.

>>96256815
Depends on a bunch of factors, but in theory, yes. If its the best method of achieving their obsessive goal, they may very well feel obliged to go for it regardless of the cost to them. e.g. if your obsession is 'kill this specific guy' and you find yourself seated next to him at a banquet, you've got a knife on you, and you don't think you will ever have a chance like this again, you may need to roll self control to not just stab him even if the consequences are that you will get shot by the guards within seconds of killing him. On the other hand, if such an action has low odds of success or you have a better plan which wouldn't involve you getting killed, then you can bide your time.

>>96256971
I did take a look at KYOS. I've been warming up to the idea of logarithmic ST costs. But I don't like how KYOS has BL improving exponentially with ST level, while HP and damage still only improve linearly. It might work well with Conditional Injury, though, if I reinterpret HP as Robustness Threshold and Damage as Wound Potential.

If you have the choice of taking Semi-Upright and No Fine Manipulators or Quadruped, why would you choose the latter? In either case, you get four limbs, can walk on all fours, and get the NFM discount on ST and DX. Quadruped allows you to move at half speed if one of your legs is crippled, but in return, your crippling threshold drops from HP/2 to HP/4. A semi-upright character can move at 60% normal move if one of their arms is crippled and has no drop in crippling threshold. They also get more powerful kicks than a quadruped (unless they have claws).

>>96255497
Horse legs basically do explode when they break, unironically. Has something to do with their anatomy, but if they break a bone in their leg it's kind of like a frag grenade went off. I'd call it a very limited form of Easy to Kill.

>>96256646

>>96257068
A 'quick fix' is to make damage and HP scale with the square root of basic lift.
So HP becomes (√BL)*2.236, swing damage becomes something like (√BL)*0.224 dice, and thrust is maybe half of swing. That isn't terribly easy to calculate in your head, but fortunately the logarithmic scale allows for tricks like 'every +6 ST doubles HP and damage' and 'every +20 ST multiplies HP and damage by 10'.

>>96255497
To elaborate on the other anon's comment, horse legs have developped a lightened structure similar to that of bird bones with air pockets, except far shittier as far as toughness goes, and practically incapable of healing due to the way they shatter. Which consistently causes hemorrages and a horse with a broken leg is starting to suffocate due to the aforementioned hemorrage and how poorly put together their cardiovascular system is.

>>96257114
I'm pretty sure this is bullshit. Horses are just big animals which run fast. That means their legs are under a lot of strain, making bad breaks fairly common. Once they break a leg, they have a couple of problems; they can't walk on three legs (unlike a dog, for example) because that wouldn't be enough to support their weight, and they are too fucking stupid to put up with being immobilised for months to allow the break to heal, followed by physiotherapy to regain use of it, etc. like a human could. So we just put them out of their misery.
This isn't unique to horses; same applies to cattle, camels, etc.

>>96257261
>they are too fucking stupid to put up with being immobilised for months to allow the break to heal
Actually, they literally can't 'bed rest'. They are so well adapted to standing that lying down is really unhealthy for them in the long-term.

>>96252170
I'll be honest, I don't like disadvantages giving you points. People just end up taking shit they can't roleplay at all

>>96257557
that's problem for the GM and the player, not the system. If a player is not roleplaying his disadvantage, the GM is supposed to punish him by giving him less xp.

>>96257557
Then don’t have a large disadvantage limit then — even a 25 or 50 point limit forces hard choices on players. There’s a sidebar at the beginning of the Disadvantages section of the basic set that talks about heroic disadvantages, read it. And remember that as a GM you should be carefully reviewing your players sheets, and making sure what is there is something playable and not just a shameless points grab.

>>96257557
I think one thing that can help with that is to not let the disadvantage amount be up to the players. Rather than letting them take as many or as few disadvantages as they want (up to a certain cap), requiring that they *have* to take exactly -50. Set it in stone, no alterations allowed.

It's a really minor change and ultimately just some sleight of hand--giving the players 50 more points and saying "take -50 in disadvantages" isn't meaningfully different from just giving them the points per disadvantage like normal--but it seems to have helped my players; rather than looking at disadvantages through the lens of "I need to take these to get more points, which ones give me the best return for the least hassle," they instead go "I need to take these anyway, which ones are interesting?"

Can a bestial creature formulate strategies and tactics? Like a wolf pack can hunt, but what about on a larger scale like an army of bestial beings?

>>96257873
Mass Combat p. 27: Instead of Tactics, Strategy, and other such skills, monster groups roll against the higher of IQ and Per.

>>96257899
(called "Cunning")

>>96257873
Probably not on a larger scale. Bestial means struggling with social concepts, and 'chain of command' is probably one of those concepts. So a horde might follow and take orders from a leader they *personally* know, but the idea of following some abstract 'commander' is alien, and even if they did all somehow know the leader personally, they wouldn't necessarily take orders from any lower-level officer, so complex tactics are right out.

Bestial units thus probably work best as "fire and forget" auxiliaries. You point them at the enemy and let their do their thing, leaving complex maneuvers and tactics to other units.

>>96257857
>Rather than letting them take as many or as few disadvantages as they want (up to a certain cap), requiring that they *have* to take exactly -50
That's even worse because then they'll take ten -5pt disads nobody will ever remember

>>96257983
How is that worse? Wouldn't they do the same under the normal system?

>>96257990
Typically my cap has been -30 or so so at least they'll take fewer of them. It's a bit player dependent, some take flavorful stuff and they're easy to manage, others try to minmax and you have to constantly veto their sheet

>>96258018
>others try to minmax and you have to constantly veto their sheet
That’s when you smack them upside their fool head and tell them to quit that shit or -you- get to pick their disadvantages