Cats Edition
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>>96199379
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>Thread Question:
Have any of your characters ever owned a cat?

Anons, how does an average Vampire chronicle go? I've only actually played WoD a couple of times, and I'm pretty sure that neither of them was a typical Vampire experience.

>>96215421
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsBipoG22Nw
basically this but replace gabagool with blood

>>96212908
>Tracking, investigation, stealing things, uncanny advice now and then, with ST's blessing birds could overhear conversations and relay them to you, just good company that could help center yourself now and then. It's much better if you make a dip into some sort of emphatic power, and could be a reason for developing it, yeah, but for a girl in late teens pets and social connections are most fitting advantages.
Tracking and investigating sounds like what’s most useful. Stealing sounds more like a pet monkey thing. I don’t know what you mean by uncanny advice. I have no clue what the next thing is… are you talking about a pet parrot, that is smart enough to know what kind of recon I need and tell me what it heard? Perhaps I’ll dip into the Animal Control psychic numina, but for now I’ll focus on Astral Projection.

>Also, do reconsider maxing Willpower and dumping Humanity. I know it's an expedient choice, but unless you're a will-worker conditioned into it (Akashic, Tremere, etc) you really should have higher Humanity and lower Willpower.
Yeah, I think it’s the single most gaming-optimization part of my character. Though in a way I don’t dislike the idea of playing a teen with antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) / Conduct disorder. She’s just born this way rather than being indoctrinated.

Plus the ST has implemented some rules for losing humanity. In his words, in Hunters Hunted when a hunter reaches 0 humanity nothing happens. He wants to change it into either you become more monstrous looking like a Sith, or if you seek power you can get demonic gifts… though there’s a risk that you end up as a meat suit. I don’t intend to lose any humanity, but I like the idea of flirting with this last option. The ST also offered up the possibility that we could awaken, getting embraced, or going through the first change if we so choose or it just so happens in the story.

>>96215421
"Average" really depends on the sect. Camarilla is gonna play very differently than Sabbat. In my experience your "default" vampire game is playing as Camarilla neonates. You start out doing gruntwork for the major players of the city so you can meet them organically and start to get a handle on what's happening in the city. During this phase your players start to form their own personal goals. You spend a bit of time setting up your own base. At some point the Sabbat show up to cause problems. Maybe there's an arc all about some weird clan or bloodline getting up to no good. Then the endgame is either about seizing real political power or getting into a huge supernatural conspiracy depending on the player character's goals.

One big thing about VtM is the experience is very dependent on the players having goals and working to achieve them. Nobody is going to go up in the world without initiative, so the longer things go on for the more you need your players to pick up the slack and start setting their own objectives. VtM with all passive players is hell. VtM with active players is amazing, unless they all start to kill each other. Even then, that can be fun if everyone's in good spirits about it. It's also far more flexible than most people give it credit for. It can be a spy thriller, a sad melodrama, a dark comedy, a political intrigue adventure, a cautionary tale, any combination of the former examples, and a lot more.

>>96215396 (OP)
>Have any of your characters ever owned a cat?
Gangrel. So yeah naturally. Classic ominous looking black stray. Communicates with his (monstrously deformed) Sire through it sometimes.

>>96215396 (OP)
He has one ghoul cat and is currently looking for a second cat to ghoul because the first one is lonely

so is discord vc the only way to find other people to run a game?
or how do people find other ways to run chronicles together?

>>96216400
Friends I trust

>>96216400
Friends I don't trust

>>96216400
Assuming that "convince your IRLs" isn't an option, I would try your LGS (if you have one) before going to Discord. Discord games can be okay but you have to recruit from a server you like or you will be miserable the whole game

>>96216400
Checked.

I just throw my dick into the wind and hope somebody catches it.

>>96216400
What does the Viet Cong have to do with finding games?

Is a kindred's Beast less "smart" than other similar dark sides like a wraith's Shadow or a kuei-jin's Po? If so, do we have any idea why?

>>96217148
>Is a kindred's Beast less "smart" than other similar dark sides like a wraith's Shadow or a kuei-jin's Po?
Yeah, pretty much. IIRC there are some malkavians who talk with their beasts more directly but odds are it's just their curse.

Do we have any clues regarding what the Lasombra Abyss actually is?

Just a part of the ante like Malkav and his network, something related to the Wyrm or the Void, a random umbral realm with nothing to do with anything else, something else...?

I know these kinds of things are often not spelled out or set in stone, but since you can sometimes find hints and possibilities somewhere I might as well ask what is known about it.

>>96217148
It's primal instinct, the raw hunger and violence at the heart of a vampire. It's not really an entity but a key part of their existence that their humanity restrains.

>>96217237
>Do we have any clues regarding what the Lasombra Abyss actually is?
The consensus is that it is basically the same as Oblivion from Wraith or a sub realm under their Antedeluvian.

>>96217125
>What does the Viet Cong have to do with finding games?
You need to groom future players somewhere and Vietnam is one of the easier places to do that kind of stuff.

>>96217237
It can't possibly be an extension their Antediluvian since it predates him significantly. It's speculated that he let himself get dusted during the uprising against him as part of some esoteric ritual to become one with the abyss, or a greater abyssal being. I'm sure some umbra sperg has an explanation for where exactly it fits into the kitchen sink dimension.

My take is that the Abyss is a reality truly devoid of the light of God, a sort of pelagic uncreation older than time.

>>96217437
>The consensus is that it is basically the same as Oblivion from Wraith
That's fascinating, I didn't know that. I wonder what the implications are for both of them, given that I haven't heard of the Abyss as described as the same kind of final annihilator that the Void is. But maybe that's just due to not reading enough about Obtenebration idk.

>>96217522
>My take is that the Abyss is a reality truly devoid of the light of God, a sort of pelagic uncreation older than time.
IIRC, they just copy-pasted Zoroastrianism in broad strokes. The Abyss is ontologically evil darkness, and that's it.

>>96217579
The Abyss had a lot of Exalted-isms. The entity IS the dimension, and the creatures in it are parasites or cell analogues, and tapping into it leads to body horror when your character fucks up.
There is a ritual where you can extract information from the Abyss as you basically search all the truths it has swallowed, leading people to believe that it is pretty self-aware and in control of its own memories.

>>96217579
At least most recently, Abyss Mysticism is definitely Oblivion-adjacent.

>>96217579
The way I've always seen it is that Oblivion is the final annihilator, and the Abyss is what's left after that: a whole bunch of different kinds of demons stuck at the ass end of reality, desperate to get out.

If you had to make your own V5 lore instead of the Beckoning, SI, etc, how would you do it? How would you deal with the awakening antes, advances of technology, and everything else?

>>96217771
I would probably lean into the thinning of the blood and how the Dhampirs are starting to become a problem for everyone as you need to cull whole bloodlines before they stabilise and become the new normal.
Maybe that's just the eugenics documentary I watched earlier today speaking but that sounds about right for a world of darkness plot line.

The group of people most knowledgeable about WoD inside WoD would be very old wraiths, right?

>>96216510
>>96216716
>>96216735
were those friends into any other ttrpgs to begin with, or how did you bring it up if they weren't?
if i don't have friends would it be better to meet people through dnd first? i don't really enjoy dnd as a setting but i don't hate it

Have anyone read "Mongrels" by Stephen Graham Jones? how is it? are there any non traditional werewolf media you can recommend?

>>96217856
Most Wraiths were normal people. How would they be aware of the inner workings of vampires, werewolves, mages, changelings in death if they weren’t in life? Sure, as wraiths, they learn vampires have a secret society, but I doubt they’re aware of the Antediluvians. They may be aware that Mages have powers, but don’t understand why they do, and neither have an inkling about the Consensus. Only Wraith that might be a WoD lore master is Charon. And even then, it’s whatever the Lady of Fate deigns to tell him.

White Wolf Reddit is once again loves censoring opinions against 5th Edition.
>>96217579
Nah, Abyss Mystics hates Light and the Creation just like Oblivion Neverborns, Onceborns and other borns.
Same as Nephandi from Mage, they hate the light and the Creation similarly and worship the Void.

>>96218925
I'm surprised I haven't seen many people here mentioning how V5 got caught using AI art.

>>96218933
Meh, many of us already lost hope for the edition and not suprised. They also already got caught tracing art before in H5. AI art is at least better than that.
>>96218655
Nta but Wraith's do have some nifty things like a Library that contains every lost and destroyed writing. Which includes writing of other splats. Though I doubt all but the most determined would find things worthwhile in it.

>>96215128
>>96219066

Additional context would be that the PCs have investigated some old historical text ranging from the 1000s to 1980s that are all eerily similar (generic groups going violent in the city and the county without any proper explanations, officials always just shrugged and life went on as normal) and all happen around generally violent and chaotic times.

>>96219076
I see. Well, I think it'll be fine for an initial encounter. Attacked by the survivors of a previous fight that went wrong, with weapons nearby for them to scavenge when things go wrong. Since it's only two player characters, I'd say start them with three of these freaky rat-dogs (dependent on statline and how good at combat your PCs are) to gauge how well they perform in a fight. Oh, and if you have a PC who isn't great in a fight, it's good to let them do things other than direct combat to help in a combat encounter. Things like slamming a door on an enemy trying to come through, less damage than a conventional attack but can go off of athletics and remove the enemy's defense if they get wedged. Or blocking off points of entry with crafts. Or forestalling an enemy's attack by keeping them talking (giving the fight guy time to prepare).

One problem with the vampire angle is you've got, based on that timeframe, a 1000 year old vamp. Which is going to be quite difficult for two presumably low exp hunters to defeat, even as the culmination of a long running chronicle. One workaround you can do though is to have that vampire spend most of their time in Torpor. Those crime sprees are just when he/she wakes up, causes chaos, and then returns to torpor to let the heat die down. That way you can have an old ass vampire with fairly little time topside to get stronger.

>>96219144
Good point on the age of the vampire.
The original idea was to keep it open-ended enough that I could justify bringing out different kinds of supernatural threats.
Would a vicissitude proficient vampire scholar and their minions fucking around and letting flesh beasts run loose on accident be fine? The thousand year old vampire angle could have the old vampire's childe(r) and/our ghoul(s) be the culprits behind the situation.

>>96217771
Lean into Elder conspiracies pulling the strings of vampire and mortal society, but don’t actually go into detail about it. Show strange outcomes and weird coincidences. Avoid the mistakes of oWoD in overly detailing the lore and backgrounds and motivations and fetishes of these elders but instead simply acknowledge they exist and shape kindred society without ever directly interacting with it. Hint at councils and agreements and treaties that control your unlife without you as a mere pawn ever being aware of the details.

>>96217237
> Only the most eccentric and arcane savants among the clan understand the true significance of their dark art. Obtenebration is more than mere shadow-play. It is a window to the Abyss itself, that great and terrible unknown that lies at the center of all things. The Abyss gnaws at the heart of the underworld and the doubt in every question never answered. It is present in the absence of light and lurks in every shadow. Ghosts rightly fear its hunger, but they do not understand it. Demons call it Hell, and they only begin to comprehend. No Lasombra knows where it comes from or its purpose or even the purpose of its strange denizens, but the clan’s mystics know the Abyss is the ultimate source of their power.
player guide to the low clans pg 175-176
there is also some dtf and mage lore that then tie this and abyss mystics to primordial void who's denizen hate creation because they got hurt by "let there be light" and the lasombra clan novels also say that every thought you ever have goes there after you had it and it "died" with memory only being a echo of that dead thought

Hey /tg/,

I've got a vampire with an interest in learning Alchemy using the hedge magic rules from Sorcerer. Would it be inappropriate of me to suggest that they still should need to use Vitae in their concoctions? Their character doesn't really like using Vitae, because they don't hunt and blood is expensive, but I kinda think it's important that power in Vampire be tied to the blood. As a compromise I could say that Vitae reduces difficulty or success thresholds, so there's just an incentive for being more vampiric, but that still makes it pretty easy to ignore.

>>96219861
the book house of tremere talks about vampire alchemy and how you can make potions(the specific tremere called them humors and her potions kinda sucked) work. basicly you can't just throw blood into alchemy potions and have them work: alchemy potions work like drugs you need to feed them to humans and then drink them while they are under the effect of the potion/drug and that extra step was too cumbersome for most tremere to bother + unlike drugs both the blood doll and the vampire get both the positive and negativ effects of the potions

>>96218970
But wouldn't it also contain every bullshit book and make it even harder to tell good info from bad because it's even less connected and verifiable by anything else?

>>96219917

That's probably a better way to infuse some moral element. (I wouldn't really have them just throw blood into potions, though. They'll be learning from a Kiasyd alchemist, so there's an experienced mentor.)

>>96217237

I'm interpreting it as a kind of event horizon around Oblivion. It feels more natural to treat it as Oblivion itself, but sometimes it matters that Oblivion be truly a place of utter destruction, so this is in the middle.

>>96220010
Kiasyd have not figured that out yet, their "alchemy" is just mixing bloodtypes mundane and supernatural and looking if different blood storage changes the taste

>>96219194
>The original idea was to keep it open-ended enough that I could justify bringing out different kinds of supernatural threats.

That's entirely reasonable. You could wait to see what might interest your players before settling on an explanation. As for the vampire thing, I could forsee a few problems with having there be an ancient elder AND wayward childer/ghouls
>Leaves a powerful supernatural out of their reach, which could frustrate players
>The elder might solve the problem themselves if they learn about it

Don't get me wrong, getting absent minded or apathetic and letting the flesh freaks terrorize the countryside is definitely a common elder tzimisce problem. The issues are more a matter of how your players actually resolve that long term. They could maybe swing it if there were enough other hunters in the area that they could form a coalition. Hence why I suggest the frequent torpor angle. It makes the vampire relatively weak while preserving your ancient evil plotline. Or it could be a brood. Sire gets dusted, childe takes over their territory and goals.

In my experience it can be a bit of balancing act in Hunter to have good monster variety while avoiding everything turning into a mess. I typically like to have a recurring A plot that focuses on a single antagonist and minions, and then monster of the week adventures as a B plot. Do you have an idea of what your players want from the game and about how long it'll run for IRL? That might help you figure out how you want to approach the plot.

>>96215396 (OP)
>TQ

Our current Hunter game has us all staying in the same boarding house. The landlady has a black cat named Licorice who has become our mascot.

>>96220097
There's a sidebar in Lore of the Bloodlines saying that Kiasyd drinks are starting to convey temporary benefits, though it's ultimately up to the Storyteller if that's happening. I thought it was a nifty idea, given that the player was already interested in a similar subject, but I haven't written out rules for it yet. We've talked about using the XP values and structure for Thaumaturgy rituals.

>>96220192
yeah because supernatural blood types have effects

v20 does somewhat shy away from that but the older editions had several effects for drinking different kinds of blood

>>96220114
>You could wait to see what might interest your players before settling on an explanation. As for the vampire thing, I could forsee a few problems with having there be an ancient elder AND wayward childer/ghouls
I know the problems that having a vampire antagonist bring. I did play with the idea of having the elder (or the tzimisce vampire in general) actually help out the hunters (through ghouled assistants for example) deal with the flesh beasts.
Other than that I would probably go with a Pentex angle and have baned wildlife or something similar going on.

>Do you have an idea of what your players want from the game and about how long it'll run for IRL? That might help you figure out how you want to approach the plot.
One player has enjoyed the investigation and intrigue angle of the game so far while the other (that I mentioned) wants more combat. We're atm gathering once a week, and I'm not sure how long we're planning on running this.

Having the whatever is behind the flesh beasts and the death of this hunter cell be the main antagonist of the story and dealing with B plot monsters of the week could be an interesting angle I admit. I've thought of using local folklore monsters too.

>>96220192
yes but what the other anon i think is trying to say is that kyasid alchemy is about being a barista not being sorcerer you are not doing any blood magic you are just mixing stuff that already has a effect together to make novelty drinks, it's why the same book for the first time tries to place kyasid and especially kyasid alchimists into camarilla elysiums

>>96217771
i actually like the beckoning and think it's a good idea to not have elder stuff in the corebook so i would keep it for now but probably have it stop in the book i introduce elder stuff in with the book being about daddy and friends comming home only to find their support structure uprooted and some domains might even try to fight back, some elders might not come back choosing to go somewhere else or having died in the meantime or whatever

as for the SI i would not start with it being in full force but i would start the edition with kindred noticing a uptick in well armed hunters, letter agencies becoming more dangerous without elders manipulating stuff behind the scenes and such and have it become worse over the span of the edition

What do you guys speculate would be the effects of a vampire diablerizing a...
>Strix
>spirit
>ghost
>hobgoblin
>True Fae
>qashmal
>Supernal entity
>Abyssal intruder
>Beast

>>96220221
Local folkore is always a goldmine. If you don't know how long it's going to go, you might want to play things by ear. If you commit to a big plot with a powerful enemy that will take a lot of time and effort to destroy, but circumstances force you to end early or go on a long hiatus, that can suck.

I can tell you how I'd play it, but I don't know your players or your table's general sensibilities. Hope I've been able to help with your planning in some way. As a stand alone encounter I think you've got a good set up. What's the greater mystery behind it is something more subject to personal taste.

>>96217856
Nah, mages or spirit are probably the only ones with a good grasp of the bigger picture.

>>96220404
>Strix
Same as normal diableri but they unlock a some new powers. Potential mind battle shenanigans like in old world.
>spirit
They would probably become a Magath like Claimed and mutate pretty hard.
>ghost
Ghost already have rules for eating them so just use those. There is a gangrel bloodline about being part ghost but I can't remember their names or if it they were from an STV book.
>hobgoblin
>True Fae
The both probably die and are reborn in the Hedge but their fuckery is way to individual to give a generalization.
>qashmal
>Supernal entity
>Abyssal intruder
No idea what a successful attempt would look like besides a pile of ash.
>Beast
They become a beast and lose their original template.

>>96220404
The noncorporeal ones, I mostly picture like vapors trapped in giant brass stills and being processed together with some blood to make it restore willpower.

>>96215396 (OP)
Are there vampire cats or mage parrots or other things like that in the setting? Can there be, without it changing the tone too much? Seems like it could be neat.

>>96220507
There are in Requiem, Amaranthine Cats.

>>96220577
Really a colony of rogue ghouls, but the only difference is they need to take blood from vampires and they can sniff it out by daylight.

>>96219999
Depends on how well organized it is. If the librarian and scribes do their job properly, they'll know which books belong in the fiction section and what information to include in their local encyclopedia.

>>96219861
>>96220010
Learning mortal alchemy is only possible for thin-bloods, and that's only because thin-bloods can create new disciplines from just about anything.
As anon said above, the tremere have figured out a thaumaturgy substitute for alchemy like they have for other sorcerer paths, but it's objectively worse than real alchemy(just like every blood magic path. Blood magic objectively weaker and more expensive than sorcery, but is easier to use)
>Kiasyd alchemist
The kiasyd don't do alchemy. They're drink-mixers doing LARP. Their "potions" don't have any effect that supernatural blood doesn't already have on it's own and are in fact Weaker than just drinking the supernatural blood unmolested.
They're full of shit and can't teach anyone anything useful about alchemy.

>>96220507
>mage parrots
That one's easy. You can have a mage transform themselves into a parrot while keeping their powers or you could have the parrot be a Familiar with various Spirit and Bygone (some of these can be specific Sphere effects) powers.

Also can anyone answer if you could teach a Familiar Sorcery? Obviously they couldn't properly awaken since they're spirit beings cloaked in flesh akin to fera/drones/fomori, but not quite the same, but hedge magic should be theoretically possible.

>>96217959
The best way to bring it up to people who aren't into TGs is to just say, hey I want to play [game title] it's a pen and paper game that is like [closest media comparison the person knows]. I sold my mostly normie co-workers on VtM by telling them that it's like a crossover between Werewolf (the party game) and Interview with the Vampire. Worked like a charm and one of them now runs my CtL game. I also tell people that they can just come eat pizza and watch us play until they feel ready to join. Neither approach has ever failed

>>96220507
Not vampire directly but you can ghoul animals

>>96220239
I think I might be a lost cause, because I’m still not really understanding what’s going on. Conversation was like:

Player: I know you’ve already agreed to let my character drink wine at high humanity, but I was wondering if she could learn hedge magic. Look, here is a vampire who has learned hedge magic in lore.
Me: Eeeeeeeeeeh, okay, sure. It’s our table, and it’s not like we’re making new official content. The only rules I found for our edition are in M20 Sorcerer, though.
Player: Okay, I think I can have some fun with that. Alchemy seems like something my character might be into, but how would she learn it?
Me: Well, elsewhere there’s this bloodline that makes blood cocktails that can sometimes temporarily grant disciplines or raise stats. What if we had one that combines that with alchemy, and she can learn that?
Player: Hey, making magic cocktails? That sounds right up by wino artist’s alley! I hope she doesn’t have to use blood, though.
Me: Well… I haven’t decided yet.

The Kyasid in question does lean more on the occultist side of the clan concept than the barista bit, acting as a sort of apothecary on an island nearby, but since they're also supposed to be reclusive and pretty isolationist I didn't think it would be that strange for Kyasid to have idiosyncratic approaches even to their common interests.

>>96220999
>I hope she doesn’t have to use blood, though.
What the actual fuck???
What part of "Vampire" does this player not understand?

>>96220999
the thing the other anons i think want to get across is that kyasid do "alchemy" like people did alchemy irl not the magic alchemy in wod meaning they are mixing stuff using other stuff, but there is no "real" sorcery (blood or otherwise) involved.
so if you want to use alchemy(sorcery) kyasid alchemy is the wrongest direction you could go, in canon of course what you do at your table is whatever, rule of cool overwrites

and using sorcery paths for vampires can be done in canon, but it's very rare the book "wolves of the sea" has a merit for that (although i think that merit excludes alchemy as a path because it's about rune magic) that specifically goes out of it's way to mention how rare it is, but even then you need power it with blood because you know: you are a vampire.
if the question is however if he can make a potion without blood as a ingredient i would personally go "yes but you still have to spend a blood point to power a transmutation circle" or something like that

>>96220999
>I’m still not really understanding what’s going on.
Anon with lucky sevens: >>96220777 sums it up.
Kiasyd don't do alchemy. They're larpers. There are ways you can get kinda close to alchemy with blood magic, but it's not going to be hedge magic.
> was wondering if she could learn hedge magic. Look, here is a vampire who has learned hedge magic in lore.
It also sounds like your player pulled a bait-and-switch on you. There's only one example of a vampire doing "hedge magic" and that's tiamat, and she's not actually using hedge magic. Tiamat has the equivalent of "Rune-Wise", a merit in dark ages: Wolves of the Sea that allows vampire to learn and develop some of the powers of hedge magic with severe limitations.
This player sounds like one to watch, they're twisting the rules to push something that isn't true.

>>96220999
Mate you're playing a vampire, it's gonna use blood

Holy shit, there are so many fucking dubs, trips, and quads in this thread. /cyoag/ is gonna eat its heart out.

With the July sale ending, what CofD STV not from NMD is worth buying?

i hope i am not stepping on a landmine here or anything, but my group wants to try changeling the lost and i am not sure if i should start reading first or second edition

and after the general corebook and the gameline corebook what should i read next?

>>96221177
You're welcome

>>96221098
It's caused some tension between us, but they're the driving force of the group right now. Like, in-game they're the one who pushes the group to actually go investigate things. They're trying to keep a high humanity vampire through the campaign, and we've talked about how that should be difficult. They imagine their character's story arc being about coming to terms with their vampiric nature, but in practice they keep coming up with ways to not to do that.

It's a pretty weird group in general, though. One player is making a new character after they realized it was pretty confining to play someone who tries to spend five nights a week running a bar.

>>96221238
>One player is making a new character after they realized it was pretty confining to play someone who tries to spend five nights a week running a bar.
Why didn't he just hire/ghoul someone to take care of the busy work while he goes out? Ghouls are perfectly happy working hard for low pay as long as their blood-sugar daddy/momma visits them regularly.

>>96220446
You've helped quite a bit, actually, and given me some new ideas too.

I'll return back here and tell how the session went once we've played. Or if I have some more questions.

>>96221155
It was Roberto Castrovinci from M20 Gods and Monsters, actually. "He's frighteningly adept at static magical Arts, too - not the blessings of True Magick, but the sorcery known to vampires and certain mortals. (In game terms, hedge magic and the Thaumaturgy Discipline.)"

Unfortunately he's not statted.

>>96221150
Oh, okay. We know we're sailing out of canon on this one. I was more concerned that I was being too insistent or vindictive by throwing up another barrier to their plans. I used to be really overly punitive (I was a teenage DM, but still), so I'm trying to be more accommodating, but I still want to keep the feel of the game, and I'm kinda struggling to reconcile the two. Couple days ago I spent like two hours arguing on and off about whether siphoning cattle blood and storing it in enchanted vessels was too clean for the game or not, so it's not quite going well.

Also, thanks for the citation. We've been trying to find any material we can.

>>96221275

We've all been wondering the same thing. Some of it is that they're new to the game so it may not have occurred to them, but they also just have a small history of making characters who would rather not go adventuring. They do try to follow along, and they really enjoy the trying to get out of scrapes, but their characters often seem like they'd rather just have a job.

>>96221382
>M20
/there's the issue anon. M20 is garbage and breaks a lot of the previously existing lore and balance. It's not even easier to run since the book in unwieldy and poorly organized.

>>96221382
there is some inconsitency about it mostly with sorcerer revised saying a ST can allow splats to have sorcery and the gods and monster stuff you already mentioned, but most other books make it clear that most supernaturals can't use sorcery and if they do it's usually a mechanically limited version that also needs you to buy a expensive merit

> I'm trying to be more accommodating
nothing wrong with that if it fits with your group, and if you still want opinions i would copy the runewise merit from wolves of the sea and replace the rune carving skill you need for the rune magic with the rarely used optionial alchemy skill

that would get your player something to roll (alchemy the skill) for both the potions making and all other topics regarding alchemy and it would allow him to power the "magic" of alchemy with blood without needing to use blood as ingredient for every potion. I would then also go still with the statement from house of tremere that vampires can't directly drink potions because they are dead, but that's because i personally really like the idea of turning blood dolls into petri dishes but perhaps that's something you should ask your player as it might be too much

>>96221589
>but most other books make it clear that most supernaturals can't use sorcery
With the exception of the catgirl/foxgirl factions(bastet and kitsune), they're explicitly allowed to practise sorcery... and it might have something to do with them canonically taking mage dick for generations...

Reminder that the division between sorcery and true magic is fucking stupid

>>96221232
I prefer 1e for Lost. Read both edition cores and decide which you prefer. It's a matter of taste, a lot changed between editions.

>>96221665
depending on edition they also have to buy a merit for that and bastet atleast are also heavily gimped when it comes to buying sorcery in character creation

>>96221589

That makes a lot of sense, thanks. I like the idea of petri dish blood dolls too, but I think that might be the kind of thing that the player would want to avoid (for now, at least).

Honestly, you've given me enough to work with that I could imagine a kind of multi-step merit partly representing learning to transmute your own constitution to handle more complex concoctions.

>>96221682
t. magelet

>>96221682
It isn't. "True Magick" was a cool idea that turned out to have a massive amount of baggage attached in practice. Sorcery is the compromise for people who wanted actual learned magic instead of weaponized schizo and a wizard splat that doesn't flip the table and shoot the themes in crossovers.
I just wish they didn't sew sorcerer onto mage like an apprentice tzimisce botching a vohzd creation.

>>96221665
>it might have something to do with them canonically taking mage dick for generations
It's still hilarious to me how obviously horny the writers got with the bastet breedbook and ascensions right hand. The titles alone are an endless source of dirty jokes.

>>96221710
you are very welcome, one more bit of opinion if it's okay: i would personally either keep the growth of the alchemy to the path and skill and keep the merit as a one time purchase that allows him to do alchemy in the first place or maybe the replace the path with the multi step merit because otherwise i think will just have too much paperwork and exp cost related to the concept

> I think that might be the kind of thing that the player would want to avoid (for now, at least).
which would be fair i think, the petri dish blood dolls (while cool as hell in my opinion) would turn the concept a bit away from the classical alchemist who is also a vampire into the direction of a mad doctor slaver
which to be fair is very vampire but i don't think it's very kiasyd
>>96221728
>ascensions right hand
goat boys finest work, but now i have to deal with the hermetics in my games always wanting to have mummy butlers and cat girl maids

>>96221718
Just say that sleepers can learn rotes and sorcery paths/psionics/etc. are a gameplay abstraction so unawakened characters don't have to buy spheres

>>96221805
>cat girl maids
They're an endangered species, I must do everything in my power to help them recover!

>>96221806
No fuck that. Mage is shit and has always been shit from the inception. Sorcerer needs work, but it's pretty cool.

>>96221812
does that even work if you are not kinfolk? or are horny mages the reason why they are endangered?

>>96221820
>does that even work if you are not kinfolk?
Fera/mortal kids are always kinfolk themselves. The majority of fera/kin children are also kin as well, with only 1/10 children being shifter and most couples having much less than 10 kids.
The net effect is that a mage doesn't do much harm, unless they have a horizon realm. Then they can raise thousands of kinfolk and cause a massive spike in the homid population(and possibly the animal-borns as well if verbena white-women)

>>96221806
Not everything needs to be attached to mage. There are plenty of things that just function according to WoD's metaphysics rather than the person enforcing their will on reality. In fact that's how 99% of magic works, mages are the weird exception.

>>96221837
well having a bastet consors allows you to enter their personal mini umbra realm (i forgot the name) which you could probably extend into a small horizon realm with a bit of work

but then you run into the problem that the character has a private realm and a hot cat girl gf so we would probably never see him again

>>96221888
>but then you run into the problem that the character has a private realm and a hot cat girl gf so we would probably never see him again
This is the reason they nuked the umbra and horizon in Revised. The vast majority of mage players did this, and it pissed the writers off that people would rather play in the infinite universe of magical adventure with no paradox instead of the gray, soulless, paradox-burned hellscape of modern earth.

Why do Shih age prematurely? Is it just spending chi at all or something else, like spending chi beyond your Virtue ratings or the permanent willpower costs of some of their powers?

>>96221914
They age prematurely for the same reason every overworked wagie with no prospects ages prematurely: constant stress and never enough time to sleep. If shih got paid to do what they do as a 9-5, they'd live as long as anyone else.

>>96221914
don't these guys hurt themselves with most of their powers? so i assumed they just burn out

>>96221853
yeah and that's exactly the problem I want to address

>>96221805
Yeah, I'm probably getting too 3.5 D&D minded. I keep trying to turn things into a feat tree! Merit, then path and skill it is. Especially since it's not like the entire chronicle is about this process.

>>96221907
Sounds like a massive skill issue from the writers, desu.

Been watching some interviews and this guy seems pretty Magepilled.
What Tradition would he be? Ecstatic?

>>96222048
And of course I forget my goddamn pic.

I've only barely heard the term, so what are good places to look at for info on Inceptors?

I've heard that there is someone translating the DAV20 France by Night book, does anyone know an email, IRC or anything I can do to reach out to them? I've been translating the book on my own for a bit now, and it might be easier if there are multiple people

>>96222076
i think that anon hasn't posted in half a year or something like that

>>96222088
Yeah, that was me probably, had a housefire and lost all my progress, restarted and have been doing better practice, especially for maintaining the Book's fonts and consistency which slowed me down a bit, only really given it more time in earnest over the last month but I'm back to the 20% that I was at before.
My other VtM friends have been talking in the obtuse about there being other people translating the book though, wanted to see if it was true or just people down the grapevine talking about myself.

So what's wrong with Touchstones that everyone complains about them?

>>96219747
>The Abyss gnaws at the heart of the underworld and the doubt in every question never answered. It is present in the absence of light and lurks in every shadow. Ghosts rightly fear its hunger, but they do not understand it. Demons call it Hell, and they only begin to comprehend.
>player guide to the low clans pg 175-176
>there is also some dtf and mage lore that then tie this and abyss mystics to primordial void who's denizen hate creation


>At one time, Oblivion was not a ravenous corrupter. Rather, it was the manifestation of passive destruction, the void into which all things eventually fell when their time came. It did not seek out prey, as it did not need to. In time, all things came to it, dying in order to make room for the new. It was, in this pure incarnation, an essential part of the cycle of life and death. And with the shock that separated the living from the dead, all of that suddenly changed.
>Once, wraiths had roamed a world made up of memories and dreams, occasionally drifting away when they no longer had a sufficient sense of self to continue. But with the rising of the Shroud, Oblivion awoke, and it was hungry. Reaching out, it stirred a sleeping part of every wraith’s mind, the vicious, selfish, despairing heart of darkness in every soul, and gave it voice. The Shadow now tore at wraiths from within their souls, urging them down the endless slope to Oblivion and tormenting them if they resisted.
>Wraith the Oblivion 20th

Found the first text when reading the thread, remembered the second one, so when we put it all together...

Is the mouth of the Void something that instead of destroying banishes outside reality, which is also where the DtF demons were banished to, and also the Wyrm (because that description of "originally natural and passive but now corruptive and active" sounds very familiar)? Or did I understand it wrong?

Putting together the lore from the info the different factions have is as interesting as it is confusing...

>>96222143
someone did some pages on the prince of darkness discord, but that was a while ago so i am not sure if that wasn't also you

>>96222179
>Is the mouth of the Void something that instead of destroying banishes outside reality, which is also where the DtF demons were banished to
ves and it's also what the cappadocians called the well of bones
>and also the Wyrm
no to that one, silent striders books talk a bit about it oblivion is the bigger fish to the wyrm
the wyrm is the universal force of destruction while oblivion is the primordal force of non existence

one wants to destroy all that is in the universe while the other wants to destroy the setting itself, all of it, wyrm included

>>96222233
well pre-primordial to be exact

>M20 is garbage and breaks a lot of the previously existing lore and balance. It's not even easier to run since the book in unwieldy and poorly organized.
After reading this >>96221461 I'd like to know what Mage edition would people recommend?

Is there a better edition than M20 to play, or is it the best of the bunch despite its issues?

>>96222269
revised for rules and 2e for lore (as it predates the avatar storm) seems to be the most common recommendation

>>96222179
It's the accretion disk around a black hole, not yet of the thing but totally within its power, and in this case bent to malevolent purpose while it spirals in but can still reach outside.

>>96217771
I kind of like the idea of having the idea of having the antes wake up and then disappear.

Did someone or something stop them? Are they taking their time to reacquaint themselves with the world? Are they weaving incredibly complex plots in the background to undermine each other? Is Gehenna over, averted before it began, postponed, ongoing?

Nobody knows. And since nobody knows, there's uncertainty and paranoia instead of catharsis one way or the other

>>96222269
Revised is the best of all versions with not homebrew, but the game is objectively better if you throw the avatar storm(and most of the revised metaplot) in the trash where it belongs.

>>96222269
either 2nd or revised
feel free to use awakening rules for casting

>>96222438
>awakening rules

>>96222465
I'm sorry. :(
What I meant to say was GURPS:Mage casting rules :)

>>96222500
one anon mentioned feet chains so how about we all go and play monte cooks world of darkness where -all- splat powers are done like that

so I was in the folders looking for the new V5 book just to check it out for any ideas I could drag screaming into V20 but all I found was a PDF for a magical combat wheelchair lol

>>96222410
>I kind of like the idea of having the idea of having the antes wake up and then disappear.
Anon there is like 3-4 of them awake alive and chilling out keeping a low profile. If I recall the funnist one is the toreador ante, shes just chilling out on a small island in greece LARP'ing as a 10+ gen. She looks super super young like an 11 year old loli to everyone. Completely able to hide her power level just acting a cute naive loli vamp with super high humanity, shes the ante with the highest humanity obviously.

Imagine kindred you're on vacation or someshit in greece(helping them pay debts), you decide to take a ferry to a random island because you heard the nature&shit is completely stunning. And while on the beach you meet the most cutest of cute ToT, she starts asking you questions on what its like being a vampire. What you have done in your unlife what do you think is your future do you think the sabbat autis screeching all the time are telling the truth. The antes are alive and well or sleeping gehenna will happen one day in the future. Asking you about your humanity and how completed you are to follow the beast. How one is able to keep it, or why you would want to lose it. You end up going to her place and meeting her ghoul family.

Next thing you realize you have spent a month in greece you just couldnt stop talking to the loli because ToT so adorable&naive. Everyday you have spoken about personal insight, philosophy and basically your whole life&unlife story. As you enter your coffin to be placed in the plane you just cant stop thinking how wonderful the past month has been. You cant believe how speaking to a little girl that has been a vampire for 1-3 years, is basically a 14 year old girl who is very confused.
Due to being cursed by a pedo who was murdered right away for unlifing a loli. Thus the cammy's thrown her on the island for a decade+ to grow up. Randomly meet&speak to other vampires.

You just feel so alive&happy

>>96222179
Here is the most agreed-upon tldr:
The Void: It is the absolute Nothingness, it was before the Creation alongside God (Everything). It is outside of the Creation and they hate existence as a whole. There are beings that aren't beings inside it. Destroyed things or even things that never existed, existing inside the absolute Nothingness.
Oblivion: The whirlpool leading out of the Creation into the Void inside the Underworld, surrounded by the Labyrinth and it is the metaphysical bottom of the Creation.
The Abyss of the Lasombra: It is the Void. The Abyss Mystics hate the Creation and the Light, things they call are anti-creation too. Even Lasombra Antediluvian rambled about it, see Lasombra Clanbook Revised.
The Abyss from WTA: Is not the Void. It is explicitly inside the Umbra and when you find the bottom, it leads to the Underworld. It is most likely an Umbral reflection of the Void, though.
The Abyss from DTF: Is not the Void. Demons when they were Angels forged the Creation inside the Void and would have known if it was the Void. They wouldn't need to come up with a separate name for the Void. It is most likely an isolated prison realm.

>>96222514
From what I remember Monte's take had Lego pieces for casting rules. they were ok but I feel like that's almost missing the point of mage in some regards.
>>96222465
How are the old world casting rules better?
>>96222162
Touchstones are for the kind of game where you have some more concrete reasons to give a shit about humanity, they can be time consuming and making them a baseline rule annoys people who would rather ignore them.

Imagine living in a world where Brucato died in a stampede or some other ironic accident just before anniversary editions started being written, so M20 ends up getting the C20 treatment and is not just great on its own, but a massive improvement from Revised.

>>96222514
>one anon mentioned feet chains
Pretty sure bdsmanon was talking about something else.

>>96222626
>people who would rather ignore them.
(AKA powergamers and other That Guy types)

>>96222640
that would be great, but to be totally fair onyx path also did wraith 20 without goat fucker being involved at all and that was also shit

>>96222674
Wrong. I hate them because it's more shit I have to keep track of.

>>96222608
>The Abyss from DTF: Is not the Void.
Anon, it explicitly is the void. The DtF demons come from whatever's on the other side of the mouth of oblivion. It was a technomancer dropping a nuke in the labyrinth that released them.

>>96222697
Tell me your family hates you without telling me your family hates you.

>>96222695
>Wraith 2e
>Gloomy and dark, but also flavorful. There is as much opportunity for you to be a sad spirit trying to move on as there is to be a rebellious Beetlejuice raising hell against old tyrants or a badass Doomslayer fighting a one man war against Oblivion itself
>W20
>Fuck you, everything sucks. Wanna have fun? Where the fuck do you think you are, bitch? Fun is not allowed here. No go cry in the corner while your best friend's shadow forces him to rape your wife

>>96222674
Not really, just people who don't want to have inbuilt side quests.

>>96222626
>more concrete reasons to give a shit about humanity
>Not being a giga chad 6-9 gen 8-10 humanity salubri,toreador or malk
>Not being so trusted&loved a lower gen vampire wants you to diablerie's them because they have lived their unlife for as long as they wanted.
>And they wish to bless you with their knowledge if you agree to do something they have been unable to do.
>Not being friends with mages,hunters,fae. Knowing a fucking mummy quite well who kinda trusts you. Even has contact with a good standing with a fallen daemon.
>Doesn't spend his unlife genociding all the vile evil on this earth because god has given you a blessing with massive corrupting power, but for those who stay true and protect humanity. Are blessed with power and knowledge few can even comprehend, power that takes ages just to learn about let alone walk its path to salvation.
>Spending your unlife as a cigger or saggot or god forbid even acknowledging them le edgy2deep4u "liberated" kindred.
>Not playing on nightmare hardcore mode, playing unlife as easy mode or worse mouth breather yellow lines&hand holding vidya journo mode

inb4 REEE why would you even play vampire you are completely missing the point I bet you ruin&drag down every game you play making everyone hate you especially rule lawyers and powergamers

>>96222719
Anon, I'm talking about game mechanics I need to keep track of.

>>96222821
>dude taking half an hour every week to check on my great-aunt Minnie is such a CHORE
So hey, how'd your last Thanksgiving go?

>Vampires that use blood magic to commands spirits cover everything they interact with in wyrm-taint and slowly convert All local spirits into banes. Trying to find the book as we speak, but it was a crossover centered on the tzimisce.
I just remembered, did anon ever find that book her mentioned here >>96126852?
(Or does anyone else know what that source was)

>>96222858
>Thanksgiving
Everyone point and laugh at the 600lb nozzy

>>96222858
>how'd your last Thanksgiving go?
The Christmas bottle incident turned most family gatherings from my mother's side rather sour. The divorce kind of shat on the rest of holidays with the family.
Nowadays I need a plane ticket to visit my less hostile family.

>>96222865
I remember reading that somewhere too. I think it was crossover involving a war between the tzimisce and the shadow lords. Maybe the book with that revenant kinfolk bloodline?

>>96222949
>Christmas bottle incident
Oh do go on anon with the context of said bottle. You're not black or your mothers side? Or did someone pull a wine karen moment while screeching and got blackout drunk, turning the night into pure fucking hell. As you kept praying for alcohol poisoning to kick in. Or was this like some 1man1jar horror story that woke everyone up at night.

>>96222992
IIRC that revenant family has like 5 lines of lore because they expect people to just know how Dracula had a lot of overlap with werewolves.

can't believe the Technocracy has finally started the Virtual Adept pogrom

>>96222865
the closest i know is that dark age werewolf says that kindred can only ever summon with banes despite this being balantly untrue given that there is a path that summon what by wta standard would be gaian elementals who are also really pissed at you if you don't roll well enough to control them

>>96222717
My brother. The Abyss is explicitly sealed and only contains Demons. Until Lucifer managed to summon the first of the Demons. Even then it wasn't until modern times many of the demons got outside.
So tell me, how do you explain the other Abyssal entities, which demons have never seen in their prison? Nephandi dealt with the entities in the Void, went to the Void and got into the Void way before the Abyss of DTF got cracked. Hell, even Lasombra did it for millennia before it got cracked.
Demons never saw Neverborns, never saw Nephandi getting in or out, never saw Abysmal entities, never saw Outer Gods or whatever Abysal Gods are. They are simply in a prison realm, close but outside of the Creation.

>>96223137
>there is a path that summon what by wta standard would be gaian elementals who are also really pissed at you if you don't roll well enough to control them
Where's that? It sounds interesting. VTDA20 or somewhere else?

Would it be possible to appease them with high enough Charisma rolls or chiminage, even if I'm guessing it'd be really really hard?

>>96222819
i am half convinced that w20 was written to flesh out other splat's necromancers and not wraith players

>>96223198
path of elemental mastery(Rego Elementum in the dark ages)'s 5th dot power summons a classical elemental and that been in the corebooks since the first vtm book

>>96222604
>Anon there is like 3-4 of them awake alive and chilling out keeping a low profile. If I recall the funnist one is the toreador ante
What are good places to learn about this, either the Toreador ante or one of the others?

>>96223282
whitewolf wiki, shows tons of sources just download books in the OP and start reading. The clan books also have info on the antes(which is like basically kinda fuck all).

Srsly just start downloading random books and crack em open.

>>96223012
>did someone pull a wine karen moment while screeching and got blackout drunk, turning the night into pure fucking hell.
My dad tried to stab my uncle with a wine bottle after called him a good for nothing leech who married into money despite offering no real worth to my mom.
From there we stopped talking all that much.
The divorce only proved that point a couple years later.

>>96223282
the toreador ante stuff is from one of the gehenna fiction novels, Absimiliard tries to nuke her with obfuscated nukes (yes actual nukes) but auspex 10, presence 10 + Absimiliard being the least intelligent of the antes lead to her tricking him into nukeing kupala instead and pissing off the demon and the eldest while she never moves out of greece

>>96222269
20th, with revised for reference

>>96223338
Nta but wtf, so sorry to hear that.

Hope things are better for you now than being in the middle of that... I don't even know what to call it.

>>96223358
Don't forget, Saulot (in his evil moods because writers woke up on the wrong side of the bed that day) also planned to redirect some of the nukes to Bejing because he wanted to kill Keui-jin

>>96223389
funny thing is that this isn't even the only time warlord saulot wanted to nuke shit: transilvania chronicles had him wanting to nuke all tzimisce to kill the eldest but we as the players had to stop that that because you know that would also nuke the rest of us given that the tzimisce aren't mostly limited to a mountain range in eastern europa and a small part of india anymore

saulot should really give marcus vitel a call i think they would get along

>>96223389
>cauterizing the spread of the Yellow Springs with atomic fire
But I approve.

>>96223422
saulot, vitel, giovanni, verbanna and the red talons also known as the "we want fucking nukes" club... and then Absimiliard of all people managed it to get his hands on some and wastes them

>>96223375
It has been a year and things have become a new normal. At least I got a job with the sob story.

>>96223389
>>96223422
...Is Saulot Civilization Gandhi, with his morality suffering an overflow error? Or is he following the Path of Nocturnal Redemption or something like that?

>>96222162
Idk how V5 screwed them up but in Requiem I was surprised how simple they were since I had only heard how bad it was. You get one, can buy more as a merit, it gives you +2 dice to avoiding humanity loss and stops providing benefits when you slip below 6. It doesn't even have to be a person, it can be an object or place with emotional significance. If your touchstone dies/is destroyed you get sad and want to enter Torpor. That last one is the only one I could see causing butthurt since forced torpor as a reaction to loss can feel cheap and annoying.

But even if you don't like it, it's very easy to excise. I'm sure V5 screwed it up though.

>>96223449
saulot has different personalities that think that they are on different paths (they are wrong)
with at least one of them even being convinved that he is on a kuei jin dharma (he is wrong)

>>96223449
Writers made him the good boy among the bad boys at first.
Then went the exact opposite, turned him into an opportunistic manipulator. Because you can't have good things in WoD apparently.
Now writers flip between them and leave it ambiguous.

>>96215396 (OP)
Earthbound going loud.
What was his lores?

interactions with fellow PCs that had you like this?

>>96220577
>VtR vampire are such bitches they have diablerizing cats loose in their setting
Pathetic.

>>96223633
When the horse themed gangrel does anything.

>>96223633
Last session of Hunter our occultist ended up talking with a demon, accepting a glass eye from it, then went back to camp to show it off to us.

Your pic was more or less my character's reaction.

>>96215421
depends, really. when we started our chronicle it was very seat of the pants, rule of cool stuff. we got a little more serious as we got a little older, politcking and stuff. my guy (pictured) ended up diablerizing the prince and installing one of the guys in our group as a puppet prince while i worked with some unknown spirit entity to slowly corrupt new york. we kind of petered out as we got even older and had kids etc.

always did wonder what was down that spooky hole.

>>96223171
>So tell me, how do you explain the other Abyssal entities, which demons have never seen in their prison?
Anon, you're getting the deep umbra "Void" mixed up with oblivion. You can enter the deep-umbral void literally anywhere from any umbra. Oblivion is a specific anti-universe only accessible from the low umbra.

>>96223517
>Now writers flip between them and leave it ambiguous.
More like they went with both options and had saulot somehow become a hybrid kindred/cathayan that has opposed hun and po personalities.
BJD is really fucking stupid.

>>96222608
>Oblivion: The whirlpool leading out of the Creation into the Void inside the Underworld
This is not true. The MtA Void and Oblivion are very different things anon. You can literally enter the mage "void" from the horizon realms in the high umbra.

>>96223446
>and then Absimiliard of all people managed it to get his hands on some
Not just him, the Wendigo tribe stole some and broke the veil to threaten the human race with nuclear annihilation.
The best part is that this is from the "A tribe falls to the wyrm" scenarios, and the wedigo did this Before they risked falling to the wyrm!

>Masquer gf who's Arcanoi is 1000% iuseless in the Skinlands

>>96223389
>evil mood
not at all evil, they called him a thief and usurper while gloating they're the master race

>>96215421
tl;dr picture a bond movie written by goths.

>>96224002
>useless in the Skinlands
Anon, did you forget tempers exist?
Moliate + Embody

>>96224002
I'm sure there's something that could be done to accommodate them.

>>96224097
>romancing the haunted doll
If you know, you know...

>>96224133
Can you Moliate a living body when you possess one or is it out of reach?

>>96223952
>>96223979
First off, I was talking about DTF Void but that's also MTAs Void so eh.
Second, so you guys just want to create a separate Void just for the memes or something?
What next, do you want to create a seperate Void for Apophis too?
There is no Deep Umbra Void. After you reach the end of the universe it is the outside of the Creation. Oblivion is just the most straight way.
You can also reach the Oblivion beyond the Horizon too, even the moon and beyond. See image.
(And if it is anti-universe you are looking for, that's also the Void. Qliphoths etc.)

>>96224178
You can if you make a Temper for it.
Tempers are combo-arcanoi that allow you to create new effects. Creating one requires that one of the arcanoi being combined already be mastered.
I'd say moliating your possessed vessel should require both Puppetry and Moliate at 5.

>>96223952
I am literally asking why Demons never seen Neverborne or others if their prison is Oblivion. When we know for a fact that Lasombra uses Obtenebration to summon entities from Oblivion aka the Void way before DTF Abyss got their seals broken.

>>96224318
Anon, your pic does the opposite of prove your point. It literally says SHADOWLANDS of the moon, which is in the low umbra rather than the deep umbra.

>>96224351
Probably because the demons Are the neveborn. Angels are not born, they were made directly. The neverborn are most likely the ancient slayers that dtf mentioned managed to escape god's judgement by fleeing deep into the labyrinth(which itself was their creation)

>>96224351
Isn't that like asking how an american convict transfered to a maximum security prison in the antarctic never managed to see a polar bear?
IDK, maybe it has something to do with the fact they're in a maximum security prison and aren't just left to roam the antarctic as they please.

>>96223633
>be me
>euthanatoi, ex syndicate
>slightly crazy
>we run into a marauder
>HSKIN
>force our sahaijiya and etherite to euthanize it
>the etherite is distraught over this
>tell him to "get over it"

VtM Gooner question for anons -
I'm making Rule 34 of a certain vampire girl, high humanity but she appears pale usually
Does Blush of Life just apply to all areas of the body at once, or would she just send some specifically to the surroundings of her vaginal regions?
Would her vaginal fluids be blood or does Blush of Life restore the normal secretions?

>>96224351
Lasombra are interacting with the fae Fomorian. The oblivion they touch is the one that's on the cusp of not being, as opposed to the one at the edge of unbecoming.

>>96225032
>Does Blush of Life just apply to all areas of the body at once
Yes
>Would her vaginal fluids be blood or does Blush of Life restore the normal secretions?
Blood.
All bodily fluids in a vampires body are replaced by blood. The only way around this is to use blood magic to become human temporarily, like Necromancy: [Corpse in the Monster] 5.
On another note, vampire secretions aren't just normal blood, all vampire blood is Vitae. This means in smell, taste, etc, it's more like a highly addictive honey-flavored rug than actual human blood and all a vamp's spit, tears, sweat, and lubricant can potentially cause the blood bond.
>TL;DR:
French kissing and oral sex with your vampire gf is a fast-track to becoming a bottom.

>>96225236
>highly addictive honey-flavored rug
drug, not rug.

>>96225236
>All bodily fluids in a vampires body are replaced by blood
How to vampires pass as normal humans at all when all the saliva in their mouths is actually blood?

>>96225248
By not spitting on or licking random shit.
Tell me anon, when was the last time you noticed if a random passer-by's gums were bleeding? By the average numbers, at least 1 in 3 people should have bloody spit on any given day from not brushing their teeth properly.

>>96223779
Can't stop horsing around eh

>>96225248
Also lucky for most vampire's, they don't typically sweat unless they have a rare Flaw or get cursed by blood magic.

>>96225248
It's technically blood, but it's a misconception that it's actually obviously recognizable blood. It's an inert vitae that mimics the substance it's supposed to be. So spit still looks like spit, etc. It's why kissing doesn't blood bond someone. Blush of life can fool a doctor, it's not like vampires mouths are stained red from all the blood.

>>96225306
>It's an inert vitae
>kissing doesn't blood bond someone
Where does it say this?

>>96225306
Anon, clear spit and tears are a sign of a neonate that hasn't had blood replace all their fluids yet. The books are very clear that things like blood-tears and blood-sweat are very obviously blood.

Can Wraiths have sex with other wraiths?

>>96225328
Yes.

>>96225318
There's a merit in VTDA that explicitly lets you blood bond with a kiss.

>>96225236
Wait a minute. If all a vampire's fluids are blood then how long would it take to deliver a dosage by simply making out with someone? Kinda makes you wonder why some vampires slice their hands when they can just spit in someone's mouth as it would be much more covert.

>>96225594
>Kinda makes you wonder why some vampires slice their hands when they can just spit in someone's mouth as it would be much more covert.
Because vampires are all melodramatic faggots.

>Haunting my crush with Pandemonium until she commits suicide and making her my sex thrall when she crosses over
>Or soulforging her into an onahole

Some sections taken directly from multiple different core books on the Blush of Life, every one I can find. It isn't in 1e or 2e at all, or if it is it's very well hidden. First shows up in Revised, isn't called Blush of Life until Requiem and V20. None of them explicitly mention that the fluids produced look like blood, simply that a blood point is used. Since the power is specifically for blending in, I would think it is safe to assume that the aforementioned fluids do not look like blood, nor would they have any of the properties of normal vitae. Requiem is where it first mentions being able to fool a doctor. I think people may be getting confused with the different claim that vampires cry tears of blood.

Top left is Revised, top center is V20, bottom left is Requiem 2e, bottom center is V20DA, and far right is V5.

>>96225729
Sigh...Anon, this shit right here is why you will always have a crush and never have a girlfriend.

Holy shit the Sabbat are so pathetic.

>Blood Bath

>This ritus is performed whenever Sect leaders wish to recognize a Sabbat vampire’s claim to a title, such as Bishop or Cardinal. The Blood Bath formalizes the vampire’s new status in the Sect. As many Sabbat as possible who will serve under this new leader must attend the ceremony, for failing to do so without an adequate reason is a grave slight to the leader in question.

>Starting with the priest conducting the ritus, attendant Sect leaders and other Sabbat take turns coming forward, kneeling in front of and expressing their endorsement of or allegiance to the Cainite, and contributing a quantity of blood into a large vessel. The newly titled vampire gives praise and/or advice to each of the vampires present, emphasizing the benefits the Sabbat stands to gain through the sharing of her wisdom. She then bathes in the blood donated to the pool. Following the ceremony, all vampires present drink from the bathing vessel (the blood in which is sometimes consecrated as a Vaulderie), symbolizing that they willingly partake of everything the new leader has to offer.

>Most Sabbat refuse to acknowledge a leader who has not been confirmed through a proper Blood Bath ceremony, if they have reason to suspect such.

Imagine having to drink your elder's bath blood, prostrate yourself before them and kiss their ass. Imagine then having the gall to call anyone else an Elder simp. Even the most tyrannical Camarilla Prince doesn't make their subjects do something this cucky. This is an Auctoritas Ritae. Unironic humiliation ritual god damn these guys are a joke.

>>96225587
Are you sure they weren't talking about a Feeding "Kiss" rather than a mouth-to-mouth "Kiss"
Honestly, it seems more like the writers didn't think through the implications of their worldbuilding until much later. Vampire spit is vampire blood, and vampire blood is vitae, it should blood-bond by default. This wasn't a problem in earlier editions because it required a full blood point to bond someone, but later edition buffs to blood-bonding changes that completely.

>>96227344
Almost like a key aspect of Vampire the Masquerade (and the World of Darkness as a whole) is that organisations tend to be hypocritical. For all of its laws and traditions, the Camarilla kowtows to the most powerful vampires in their ranks and allows them to do whatever they want. For all of their desire for freedom from the rigid hierarchies of the Sabbat and Camarilla, Anarchs inevitably end up setting up their own domineering regimes whenever they win. For all of their zeal regarding the slaying of the antediluvians and the elders who would dominate and consume them, the Sabbat are ultimately ruled over by elders and methuselahs.

>>96227344
This sounds like a tradition started by a toreador. It's an excuse to be naked in public and worshipped by a legion of simps.

i think we need a bit of advice, i am in a wod revised mage game and another player insist that beings like spirits, wraits etc summoned by mages suffer under paradox as if they are magic themselves
so in his opinion if i as a mage summon a spirit or ghost and people see that being i am to suffer paradox as if they seen me cast the summoning spell even if i am not controlling the being i just summoned it

is that true or not?

>>96227524
I'd assume only the summoning (and controlling) parts of the spells should be under paradox. Spirits, wraiths, etc, aren't.

>>96227457
It's talking about a real kiss. (player's guide to the high clans, page 207). It even goes so far as to say you can't ghoul with it, only blood bond.

I have never seen anything say that a vampire's spit or other fluids save vitae straight from the vein could blood bond. See earlier with the actual written rules for blush of life as well. Unless you can provide examples that support your argument from the books, there's nothing else to discuss.

>>96227459
Shut the hell up you condescending jackass, everyone knows the sects are hypocrites. but this one is beyond the fucking pale, like I'm not sure even the vinculum could cause the Sabbat to cope their way out of this one. It's so blatant.

>>96227478
Only problem is it's way more likely to be some shlubby dude lasombra or some freak-ass tzimisce with three dicks and a third ass cheek.

>>96227648
No need to get upset, anon. Ask stupid questions, get obvious answers.

>>96227648
>tzimisce with three dicks and a third ass cheek.
"I wanted to impress on the Salubri what it's like, when you make evolution about the things that truly matter."

>>96227344
>>96227759
Yet another reason that Nomad pack is the only non-cucked form of Sabbat. If some pustule ridden Nosferatu is about to get promoted you can just up and leave.

>>96227628
This merit reads like it gives you permanent lipstick instead of changing your spit.

>>96227524
>is that true or not?
That player is full of shit. Read the fetish rules in the revised ST handbook, using static magic items or summoning creatures that use static magic doesn't cause paradox, period.
Man sounds like he's trying to backseat ST.

>>96227815
>Read the fetish rules in the revised ST handbook, using static magic items or summoning creatures that use static magic doesn't cause paradox, period.

thank you for the reference
>Man sounds like he's trying to backseat ST.
not sure about that, but he didn't take a single dot in the spirit sphere and now he keeps complaining how "op that would be" if spirits, wraiths (this is specifically targeting me given that i made a necromancer like mage with entropy and spirit) and such aren't causing paradox

>>96227851
>didn't take a single dot in the spirit sphere and now he keeps complaining
Sounds like sour grapes.
The spirit sphere already has internal balance other than paradox: social obligations and consequences. Spirit are their own, independant people and trying to order them around without proper compensation is a great way to get murdered by their angry friends.
On top of that, spirit require a steady supply of quintessence or chinimage tp keep using their abilities. Without that, they'll run out of juice even if we ignore the potential incarnae getting pissed you enslaved his children.
>TL;DR:
Spirit doesn't need paradox to be balanced, just an ST that isn't a doormat.

Where can I learn more about Belial's Brood, both editions?

>>96228080
They have some multiple choice origins in the book with their name on the tittle and Night Horrors spilled blood.

>>96228080
Vampire the Requiem: Belial's Brood (1e)
Vampire the Requiem: Night Horrors: Spilled Blood (2e). Specifically Belial's Brood starts at page 56.

There are infrequent mentions of them in other books but those are the main two.

>>96217587
>IIRC, they just copy-pasted Zoroastrianism in broad strokes
but enough about Princess

Is voormas really that bad of a guy?

>>96228565
well he is a scared bitch who accidentally created a entity that is possessing and controling him made out of his pure jhor

probably still nicer than any nephandus

>>96225743
Imitating life/blush of life isn't what causes a vampires fluids to be replaced with blood, its the vampire default state. Reread the vtm corebooks, fluids being replaced by blood is in the same section that tells us vampires get paler with age.

>>96227344
>Imagine having to drink your elder's bath blood
Given how much money people spend on gamergirl bathwater, this doesn't really surprise me. The sabbat are all about maximum degeneracy.

>>96225276
You would absolutely be able to tell if they smiled or if you paid close enough attention to them talking. We're not talking bleeding gums level of blood+saliva, it's ALL the saliva in their mouth replace by blood. Granted, the human's first thought probably wouldn't be "this is a vampire", but it would definitely raise some eyebrows. Especially when combined with pallid skin.

>>96228719
So our options are
>The writers didn't think this through at all
>The writers assumed it went without saying that vampires wouldn't produce certain fluids without blush of life (why would they need saliva when they don't eat?) and Anons are too literal to intuit that
>This entire argument is trolling

Or some combination of the three.

>>96228750
>Or some combination of the three.
Is it trolling if it's true?

>>96228750
>The writers didn't think this through at all
This one has been a consistent issue for many things across wod, so this one is a given. The only question is how involved the other 2 options are.

>>96228784
Considering I can't remember off the top of my head a single piece of official art that had a vampire's mouth stained red with their own saliva-blood, I'd say yeah. Even if you could make the argument that's what it technically says, it's clearly not intended or represented in anything official that was written or drawn.

>>96228796
True, this is the same game that forgot to let their vampires see in the dark by default.

>>96229262
Wouldn't say it forgot, considering it made two abilities for it.
It just wasn't designed initially for the Dark Ages where flashlights weren't available at RadioShack for $4.99

>>96229276
There's an argument to be made it's a pretty big oversight, as even if the game is explicitly set in the modern era, it's filled with NPCs that stretch back far into the past.

>>96229262
>Considering I can't remember off the top of my head a single piece of official art that had a vampire's mouth stained red with their own saliva-blood
Given how much art depicts vampires with blood dripping from their mouths, how the fuck would you even tell if it's their own saliva or a recent feeding?

>>96229480
Because even when there isn't someone they clearly fed on in the shot, it isn't some sort of even smear on the teeth and gums, it's a deliberate drip from a messy feeding. Not to mention the utter lack of it in every single casual art of a vampire where any part of their inner mouth is visible. If this isn't some sort of bait routine I'm starting to think you have some sort of weird blood-spit fetish and I'm not going to humor it any further.

>>96229262
>>96229301
What part of
>cursed by God
Are you missing? Being a vampire is SUPPOSED to suck, and they've slightly gotten around it with various ways to cheat the system but Vampires operate in large settled areas for a reason. It's also not like night-light is impossible in history, candle industries existed very far back in time. I think Vampires not being able to see in the dark is interesting and fun, and also makes a very important distinction between High and Low Clans, the High Clans being the ones actually capable of funding their constant need for fuel to see in the dark, while Low Clans largely get by with fucking dealing with it, and Disciplines.

>>96229568
Honestly, even without night vision you probably don't want to stalk your prey while carrying a torch.

>>96229262
>I can't remember off the top of my head a single piece of official art that had a vampire's mouth stained red with their own saliva-blood
>>96229547
>it isn't some sort of even smear on the teeth and gums
Anon, vampires who've clearly been depicted as having recently fed never have blood on their fangs despite fangs being the things that do the piercing. The art doesn't prove shit.

>>96229547
>anon clearly back-tracking and trying to pretend they won
A tale as old as 4chan.

>>96229568
>Being a vampire is SUPPOSED to suck
There's "hey this is a curse" and then there's "hey I can't function as an undead bloodsucker who stalks the living by night". Besides I think V5 proved for everyone that if you lean too hard into "vampirism sucks" things get very unengaging very fast and you come off as far more pathetic than tragic.

>>96229650
nta, all you've done is assert that vampires must have blood spit and say that nothing provided proves they DONT have bloody spit beyond a shadow of a doubt. it reads like a shitpost i wouldn't want to argue with you either. provide proof or stfu man.

>>96229888
nta, but does that mean assamites can spit acid like warhammer space marines?

>>96229888
>provide proof or stfu man.
Sure. I was waiting for other-anon to demand proof so I could dunk him.

>>96229888
This kind of shit always happens when anons argue about unintended implications. The writers put in something they didn't think through and anons argue whether or not the writers intentions should be considered when it comes to how something works. The writers obviously didn't intend for vampires to have blood-spit that can blood-bond, but the rules aren't clear, so anons are scrambling to push their head-canon as the one truth of WoD.

>>96230003
nigger proof was asked for way earlier. putting the vagueness of "most" aside that paragraph is even dumber than i was expecting. what makes a vampire sweat blood? how do you keep the masquerade at all?

this shit's so dumb no wonder all vtm stuff ignores it. which edition is this even?

>>96230091
>which edition is this even?
That one is straight from the v20 corebook. I can search other edition corebooks for similar paragraphs if you want.

>>96230091
Looks like 20th, but it gets worse the older you go. Just going back to revised the embrace sections talk about how vampire can't feel emotions except hunger anymore, which conflicts with literally All the VtM Lore!

>>96230042
>The writers put in something they didn't think through
>The writers obviously didn't intend for vampires to have blood-spit that can blood-bond, but the rules aren't clear,

There's not even actual mechanics technically, it's a fluff paragraph with weird implications ignored or contradicted by most everything else. I don't see what there is to debate. Some White Wolf writer had a cool mental image, didn't think it through. I feel like you'd have to ignore it just for the setting and game to function as it's always presented. Vampires hiding among the mortal masses, flitting through the halls of power and pleasure, all that stuff the game sells it on.

I suppose if it matters it's a table by table thing like most TTRPG questions should be, though I can't imagine what table would want to run their vampires as constantly leaking blood. So can we all put this down to "white wolf did a dumb" and move on?

>>96230115>>96230150
nah if its in v20 that's as recent as it gets. wtf. did no player ever bring this up to them as an issue? there's no addenda or q&a?

>walking the streets at night, a bit hungry
>oh no! I forgot to use blush of life
>my eyes are pure red
>oh fuck the kine are looking at me what do I do
>get nervous
>now I'm covered in blood
>run home and cry blood until I run out of BP and fall into torpor

>>96230183
They wrote it like that because they ripped it straight out of Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles book series, and no one ever brought it up to them because they either 1) ignored it or 2) knew Anne Rice's work and took it for granted.

>>96230174
>it's a fluff paragraph with weird implications ignored or contradicted by most everything else.
The exact problem is that it isn't contradicted directly by anything. The merit anon above gave as evidence of conflict doesn't directly conflict with anything: >>96227628
. The merit makes you vamp naturally produce a vitae lipstick, it doesn't touch your spit.
The lack of direct conflict is what opens the door to endless bullshit.

>>96230192
>Sheriff gets sent after me for breaching the masquerade
>Fuck this stupid baka unlife

>>96230192
Mechanically, all the sweat, tears, and cum your vampire can produce in a night only costs 1 bp. Go nuts, there are no consequences.

>>96230219
You don't know the depths of my sorrow.

>>96230242
>Cries an actual river
>Still only 1 bp

Does VtM need its own 'Edgerunners series' to revitalize interest in the IP?

>>96230207
I'd say it's proof the writers obviously didn't intend for vampires to either normally have vitae spit, spit at all, or to be blood bonding with it if they did have it. Since otherwise the merit is useless. Also everyone agrees white wolf didn't think this one through.

>>96230259
You won't let me do anything I want. You're the worst ST ever!

>>96230264
The numbskulls in charge wouldn't be able to pull it off, but of course Bloodlines 2 will make negative money so that the IP crashes and burns before that could happen anyway

>>96230264
I don't think a good anime could really revitalize it. Edgerunners was a strategic play to redeem the image of CP2077 and it worked, but video games are much bigger than tabletops.

An anime masterpiece would just make the current tabletop products look extremely lackluster.

>>96230264
Yes, but it won't get one. Paradox is smart enough get a high-end anime studio into VtM and they'd force them to use the dogshit V5 lore if you somehow convinced them.

>>96230307
>Paradox is smart enough
*isn't smart enough.
Paradox is extra retarded, thus V5

You're gonna get a streaming service miniseries with a black lesbian vampire protagonist and her drag queen bestie.
If you don't like it, you're a bigot.

>>96230264
Do you want more lore sheets? Because this is how you get more lore sheets.

>>96230365
That shits been dying ever since USAID died. Turns out they were stealing tax dollars to fund the LGBTBBQBDSMTMNT+ slop

>>96230365
>a streaming service miniseries with a black lesbian vampire protagonist and her drag queen bestie
If they use revised lore, hell yeah brother

>>96230388
Unironically yes.

>>96230365
Wasn't that's just the swansong game released like 4 years ago?

>>96230409
V5 and you're gonna watch the slop

>>96230365
I'm so bigoted this is what I already believed about gays.

>>96230365
*rips a greasy pepperoni fart directly in OP' mouth*

>>96230192
>oh no! I forgot to use blush of life
>my eyes are pure red

that actually sounds like a fun weakness for a bloodline

>>96230654
Supernatural flaws are kind of a bitch.

>>96215396 (OP)
>Have any of your characters ever owned a cat?
Hoomans & fanged fags & lycanthropes, etc are incapable of OWNING cats. Some are deemed fortunate enough to be feline feeders and litter-scoopers.

>>96230301
My brother in Christ, CP2077 is also a table top rpg.

>>96230650
So in this cutscene she shits herself so hard she fires forward?

That's gonna leave a sore butthole

>>96230846
>t. a cat

>>96229838
Night isn't actually that dark, humans have decent night vision in a world devoid of artificial lighting. It's really not as bad as you're making it out to be, honestly. Go out in the woods and turn off your flashlight for 20 minutes and you'll be amazed at how well your eyes adapt.

>>96229608
Maybe, maybe not. There's various ways to stalk prey, being a friendly guy in the dark beckoning someone in who's lost, or simply looking for someone walking in the night with a torch. The latter is certainly riskier, but vampires are only at risk of the Red Fear when the fire is uncontrolled and sudden, so holding a night light is fine it will just put you on edge.

>>96231154
People massively underestimate how much brighter the night is/was without light pollution, the stars are bright as hell. Vampires would only have started needing night vision or flashlights when light pollution became a thing, so around a hundred years ago

>>96231154
>Go out in the woods and turn off your flashlight for 20 minutes and you'll be amazed at how well your eyes adapt.
>t. a Wendigo

>>96231154
I think they panic when they stop seeing colors and they don't notice they have a whole other Predator mode that can still read print.

>>96231301
It's not really the stars, but the moon. Moonless nights are INCREDIBLY dark but on a full moon you have an insane amount of ambient light, which is most likely where the full moon werewolf myth came from actually. Crime and general mischief skyrocketed on full moons due to how easy it was to see, giving rise to old wives tales of moon sickness and bewitching and a billion other things associated with trickery and tomfoolery and moonlit nights that ended up being incorporated into World of Darkness in various ways.

>>96231377
>most likely where the full moon werewolf myth came from
Lunar phases, especially full moons, have long been associated with changes in mood or madness (lunatics). Not hard to imagine people making the leap to believing it could bring about other changes as well. Especially when particularly heinous murders would be blamed on werewolves, when in reality it was probably just crazy people.

>>96231470
>particularly heinous murders would be blamed on werewolves
Reminds me of that medieval German serial killer who claimed to be a werewolf

>>96231579
That guy wished all he got was a silver bullet

>>96231470
Werewolf trials were just what France did because they didn't have witches like England or vampires like Poland or all of them like Germany.

>>96231604
From what I've seen, a lot of werewolf trials were effectively also witch trials, because the main accusation was often 'I saw them use some magic belt to turn into a wolf'.

>>96231622
That's what I mean is that the practice isn't so weird. Bet you anything Navajo accusations of skinwalking were similar and just undocumented.

>>96231470
Part of the entire moon phase = emotional phase is thanks to women. Women's hormone cycles roughly correspond to the moon phases and women living in proximity have their cycles syncronize. For millenia, this has meant that all women in your village collectively lose their minds at roughly the same moon phases every month.

>>96231648
>For millenia, this has meant that all women in your village collectively lose their minds at roughly the same moon phases every month.
Your dick can prevent that.

>>96229568
>Candle industries
Did you forget about rörtschrek? Up until electric lighting, the only way a vampire was seeing comfortably in the dark is magic

>>96231648
>women living in proximity have their cycles synchronize

No, that's flat out BS.

>>96230264
What would it be called?

I vote for "Vampire by Night"

>>96232221
>Not calling it "Vampire: By Night"

>>96230264
We'd obviously get a loli vampire. What clan would she be?

>>96232240
Nosferatu
They'd make her look ugly-cute, and you'd witness every WoD thread have arguments about it until the end of time.

>>96232240
Tzimisce.

>>96232240
Tremere, of course
She used to be a middle-aged man.

>>96232291
She was property of a leatherface until she learned something that was worth tattling. She's overeager to share like that again and unclear on value, so she gets repeated scenes of realizing she's wasting someone's time with minutiae and about to be potence smacked.

>>96231968
Did you? Read the book, a vampire can hang out in front of a fireplace or hold a torch. "Uncontrolled" fire is what provokes the Beast, unless you're very low Humanity or are on a path which embraces the Beast. You don't like it, it makes you uncomfortable, but that's just the price you pay to be an immortal god-king.

For those of you who make vampires naturally able to see in the dark:
What do you do with protean lvl 1?

>>96232507
Cute dog

>>96232515
It's clearly a cat.

>>96232507
Normal humans see absolute dark at +3(+) difficulty
Regular slampires see absolute dark at +2 difficulty
Cainites with Auspex 1 see the dark at +1 difficulty
Parasites with Protean 1 see in the dark with +0 difficulty

>>96232507
Simple. I use Requiem 2e for my mechanics anyway and their Protean already accounts for vampires having perfect night vision. It's also far more engaging of a power in general with a lot of customization.

If you really want a different answer I'd say enhance another sense. Maybe smell blood from absurdly far away like a shark or give them full on echolocation like a bat.

>>96232564
>>96232583
May God forgive me, but I do like V5's Protean power "Weight of the feather". It's stupid and cinematic, but very satisfying.

>>96232604
VtR has a similar hollow bones one that reduces fall damage and I think might also raise defense? But giving it a look yeah that's a neat one, I'm not against vampires having more powers to choose from in principle.

There's nothing inherently wrong with liking something from V5. V5's negative reputation is well earned sure, and not just because "new thing bad". Even then, it's rare to find someone who can't name one change they liked, even if nobody can agree what the good v.s. bad changes were. It reads like a neat power.

>>96232677
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdc9-vKNYD8

>>96215396 (OP)
>TQ:
Well, it was a spirit inside the body of a cat, so... kinda?

>>96233039
Tremere?

>Although there are stories of an Elemental Court in the High Umbra, most Garou do not believe in its existence. Theurges say that what outsiders perceive as a hierarchy are only reflections of one's own assumptions that the Elemental reflects in order to better communicate with a creature of flesh.
Why are they like this?

>>96233122
Yeah.

Picked uip a print of Forsaken 2nd edition and it reads like a lot of fun. I'm having a bit of a tough time picturing how most campaigns would unfold though? Are the pack just meant to run around putting out various fires in their territories? One week it's the Pure, then it's an Azlu, then some other spirit etc?

>>96233297
You could definitely play it as monster of the week. Or you could go the route of picking some big powerful antagonist to defeat and work your way up to them. Like an Idigam or a Geryo.

You could work in earlier threats. Say you fight a Pure pack, but one of them gets away. Vanishes without a trace as far as you can tell. Months later you stumble on them again, Pure love making pacts with spirits, after you stomped his shit he went looking for a powerful spirit patron. He found it. Could play it multiple ways too. Maybe he got away from it and is terrified of the thing he's unleashed, coming to you his once sworn enemies out of desperation. Or perhaps he's been completely hollowed out by it, a mindless puppet of the formless horror.

>>96233297
Anon, you are going to play as a theurge, right?

Technocrats really be like
>drinking a potion 3 times to become immune against a disease?
>REALITY DEVIANCE!
>injecting a potion 3 times to become immune against a disease?
>OH MY SCIENCE!

>>96232583
having the first power be "you can sink into the earth to sleep or hide" is just straight up a better fit for the Gangrel as well since it explains perfectly how you can embrace someone innawoods and then just leave them there with no explanations and they don't die from the first sunrise

>>96233562
Fuck, that's a good point.
What would you use as the 3rd level power if playing masquerade?

>>96233556
Meanwhile Etherites be like

>Yes I have just injected myself with liquid cancer to make myself immune to gamma rays!
>What do you mean that's not how it works?!

Mages: Familiar is a spirit that can eat paradox and can be basically anything you want
Changelings: Chimerical companion
Sorcs: Scuffed version of Mage Familiar but pretty similar
Tremere: Even more scuffed, can only be an animal and is basically a glorified ghoul that you have to feed once a week or it dies
Setite: Ushabti
Woofs: ?????

>>96233815
Kindred familiars deserved some nice rules, it's a shame they never got some depth.

>>96233815
A long time ago, I dreamed nmd (or was it Chris?) wrote a book about awakening familiars. S-surely there's still hope it'll happen...

>>96233815
don't changelings also get chimera? mummies share the Ushabti with setites (although their might actually be slightly worse) and wraiths can use phantasms as pets

>>96233871
All we got in M20 is familiars stated like mortals...
It's not happening, bro

>>96233973
Fuck.

>>96233573
>What would you use as the 3rd level power if playing masquerade?
If you are using Requiem's mechanics, might as well use their take on protean and translate the original powers as devotions.

>>96233871
DaveB said somewhere he was thinking of writing some Awakening books for STV, the first one would be about ghost/spirit liches.

>>96233815
>Woofs
kinfolk, gorgons and other possesed people.

>>96234040
It would be cool if he added a chapter on familiars, but...

>>96233459
What's the most conventional format?

It seems like most of the in-character social interactions are meant to be conducted with Spirits to maintain the ecology of the Hisil, or amongst the pack? Everything else seems to skew more towards "violent murder"? Unless I'm misreading it or getting caught up on something in particular.

>>96215396 (OP)
Hey here's an idea for a World of Darkness VideoGame

You know those resources management games where you play as someone trying to save the planet by helping out the environment.
Well how about a game where you do the opposite where you try your best to pollute the world - and you do that by playing as Pentex itself.

Your goal is to make money and make the world a worse place for everyone but you. Pollute rivers, destroy forests, put demons into your food like a regular company would would filler. But you have to strike a nice balance between infecting the very soul of the world and not doing that. After all, people can't spend money if they're DEAD. That's basic economics.

You'll also have to defend you subsidiaries and facilities from the various warriors of Gaia. Manufacture silver bullets, banes, fectori, flamethrowers, your own shapechangers!

Become Pentex's greatest shareholder and ruin the world! For a price obviously.

Pentex - because here we focus on one thing. You

Playing hecata (lamia) with oblivion 3 and fortitude 3

Got Touch of oblivion, her schtick is to be a deadly assassin for the Sabbat (8 dice pool stealth with shadow cloak, 9 dice pool brawl, doing 4 agg damage / turn with bite attack + touch of oblivion)

Saving XP atm, but undecided where to spend it. Should I invest into Oblivion 4 for aura of decay (to get the host spirit ritual and zombie horde) and then saving for oblivion 5 (tenebruous avatar)

or just go fort 4 -> 5?

Fortitude is pretty strong and simpler, but I feel like oblivion will give more utility and tenebruous avatar is just as much an I win button as fort 5 I feel.

What do you think?

>>96233167
>why are Garou retarded?
Probably some elder woof got butthurt at an elemental spirit and started saying there's no elemental court, and everyone started repeating the lie in the face of all available evidence because the guy had seniority. Garou are mentally Chinese.

>>96230388
loresheets are the best tho

Any fun use cases for maw of ahriman (v5) other than soul devouring pussy?

>>96233167
Their paradigm I guess.

Two different elemental courts exist depending on where you live and the garou have a sort of spirit supremacist themeing to them so maybe it's more like they don't offically recognize the courts as a thing. To theme its kinda like some random forming their own government in the middle of the woods.

>>96234531
No.
Your shitty magic is shitty on purpose.

>>96234035
Not even that. He can simply slot them as options for the second and fourth dots. 2e Protean is flexible like that, fittingly.

>>96234138
>What's the most conventional format?
Monster of the week of course.

>>96233167
This is so retarded. Werewolves have their own built-in spirit telephones to higher powers that will literally feed them information. All they need to do is ask Gaia or one of the Triat if an Elemental Court in order to get a straight answer.

>>96234654
uh ok?
what crawled up your ass

>>96234670
The thing is that talking to a spirit is like talking to your schizo grandma, it is hard to get an actual answer out of her.

Anyone have the tattered facade pdf?

>>96232048
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10771221/
It's well-studied science anon. It's also folk knowledge we've known about for millennia.
Your ignorance is not a valid stance

>>96234810
it's in newvola

In WtF when one of the main tenants is "The People do not murder the People", how is that reconciled when the Pure show up? I understand that they're quite fond of torturing Forsaken captives, but how does the reverse play out? The book says it's a topic of contention but what arguments for/against are there? I presumed these guys were just fighting whenever they found oneanother, to the death? Has a Pure ever changed sides?