Thread 96219018

Daily reminder that it was actually meant to be called “adventure games” and not “roleplaying games”. It’s supposed to be a mechanical challenging experience (this doesn’t automatically mean combat btw) and not theatre kids sitting around playing pretend.

>>96219018 (OP)
And you were "meant" to be 7 calories for your mom at 2:26 in the morning. Life finds a way faggot.

I don't think calling them adventure games would stop people still roleplaying in an alternate timeline

>>96219037
I never said anything about stopping roleplaying?

>>96219018 (OP)
Daily reminder that old good new bad normies bad theatre kids bad give me interaction please please please please

>>96219018 (OP)
Well, now these games are called roleplaying games and they're supposed to include playing pretend, even if there's more than that to them.

>>96219018 (OP)
Who meant to call them that, and why did they not?

>>96219265
Gygax and TSR. They stopped cause everyone started calling them roleplaying games.

>>96219288
"FRP"(fantasy roleplaying) was already being said in other states, so the people got what they wanted

>>96219288
Proof?

>>96219614
>fantasy adventure game

>>96219018 (OP)
>being too much of a coward to call them Fantasy Adventure Games like they actually were
kwab

>>96219795
>the original fantasy role playing game

>>96219614
>adventure games

>>96219795
What does it say in the lower right corner there, anon?

>>96219803
They had to add it there for marketing purposes. The original intent was for it to be an ADVENTURE game where to rules matter. Not play pretend with dice rolls.

>>96219018 (OP)
>It’s supposed to be
Well, there's your problem.

Mind your own table, nogames.

>>96219265
>>96219478
>>96219614
>>96219803
>>96219819
David Wesely, the dude who invented “roleplaying games” with Braunstein preferred the term adventure game. The roleplaying game label came about from other companies ripping of D&D and being unable to call their game “D&D-like”
>SO after trying “multiplayer multiple objective game” (or MPMOG for short!) settled on “adventure game”. Unfortunately, people who had never heard of the Cheese Shop game decided to use “role-playing game” as the generic name, when TSRs lawyers told them they could not call their imitations “games like D&D”.
http://pitsperilous.blogspot.com/2017/04/the-braunstein-experiment-wesely-weighs.html?m=1

>>96219821
>We need to add "Roleplaying Game", you know, the hyper niche genre, in order to sell our "Fantasy Adventure Game"

>>96219804
>>96219795
>Fantastic Medieval Wargames Campaigns

>>96219930
>>96219936
See the David Wesely post above. Roleplaying was already happening in their Strategos N campaigns which is why OD&D is a wargame. Wesely preferred the term Adventure game because while roleplaying is an aspect of his adventure game it’s not the focus, much like it wasn’t in OD&D.

>>96219919
Sounds like the fault lies with TSR and their lawyers then. And anyone foolish enough to think they can police natural language and decree things like how "gif" is to be pronounced.

>>96219037
That's a given, since any activity involving making decisions for a character that isn't yourself is roleplaying.

Imagine an alternate timeline in which we say "hey guys, you wanna play a FAG tonight?"

>>96220342
>decree things like how "gif" is to be pronounced
Let them filter themselves. An idiot who doesn't know the "g" stands for "graphics" shouldn't be tolerated.

>>96220739
What it stands for is irrelevant. That's not how acronyms work and never has been. Are you going to pretend you say "laser" with a soft "s" rather than a "z" sound?

>>96220828
>pretend

>>96220728
Oh, damn, so that's why OP is pining for that alternate timeline.

OP needs to stop his trolling siege of /tg/.

>>96219018 (OP)
*rips a greasy pepperoni fart directly in your mouth*
Fuck off, pedantic homo.

>>96219018 (OP)
They are literally called that in my native and guess what - that changes fuck-all.
Stay mad about the past that never existed and that would have happen (if it existed) 20 years before your mom got pregnant with you.

>>96219018 (OP)
How might I make myself care about what anyone else says a game should be rather, than what I want it to be and what it is?

>>96219018 (OP)
the cool thing is you can, and should, play it in whatever manner you choose to.
DM Fiat/RAW/Theater Troupe Make-Believe Time. Absolutely anything, and as you like it.
You live in a prison of your own creation, my dude.

>>96219018 (OP)

The wargamer simulationist dorks lost this battle many years ago. Picrel is Gygax whining about too much story in arpee 40 years ago.

People have always done story games, that why there's so many fantasy and sci-fi franchises that started off as someone's personal campaign(Dragonlance, Lodoss War, The Expanse, etc).

Besides, if you just want a tactical challenge where you bash some monsters and try to survive a dungeon, don't video games do that way better these days?

>>96221546
>Kids these days are having fun wrong!
I had never seen that article before, anon, thanks. That's pathetic and hilarious.

>>96220908
O>>96219018 (OP)
>It’s supposed to be a mechanical challenging experience
What do you think that means?

>>96220828
I do because I'm a Slav.

>>96219026
Okay, i LOL'd. Well played, anon.

>>96220828
>What it stands for is irrelevant.
Why is it used, then?

Not sure what the "noimprov" crowd would be really pleased to play, if anything. I mean, Gloomheaven and Descent are already a thing, so why not go to those?

>>96220855
And he is right, it is a more accurate description of d&d

>>96219018 (OP)
>dumb fake grog revises history and thinks anyone will just take his word for it

>>96220728
I'm sold. Fantasy Adventure Games it is, from now on.

>>96219952
>miss the point with me so I can sound like I'm right

>>96221546
>don't video games do that way better these days?
Only to people who lack the mental capacity to understand what goes into the creation and modulation of TTRPGs versus what goes into the creation and modulation of video games.

Is there a reason mods protect & support worthless bait and spam threads that would be more at home on /v/? Only /v/ is actually a better board than us now.

>>96225185
But I am right.

>>96219018 (OP)
No one cares fag, you are just bad at it.

lotta nogames itt telling other nogames what is correct fun

>>96219018 (OP)
So what?

>>96227369
A lotta settings threads on the board that have nothing to do with games, too, yet mysteriously nobody is calling them nogames.

>>96227758
Cause' they're actually useful for people who do run games, unlike this shit which is just a bunch of bots yelling at each other since the internet is over 50% bots at this point.

>>96221546
>Picrel is Gygax whining about too much story in arpee 40 years ago.

no it's not? i read the entire thing and that's literally just not what he's saying. it's right there:
>Not every game of this sort must be completely balanced with regard to all of these aspects. Such a decision is entirely in the hands of the game master and the players.
>Balanced games are certainly the most enjoyable sort for the great majority of players. A meal does not consist of just one thing - if it is to be an enjoyable one.

Gygax was just saying that TTRPGs are more nuanced than simply being about just roleplaying or just combat. he was advocating for introducing a good balance of things to make your games more well-rounded. nothing about this article comes across as whiny or even wrong. there are plenty of good reasons to make fun of Gygax, but this isn't one of them.

>>96219018 (OP)
Then why was the whole point of scaling down play from armies to heroes predominantly theatre kids playing pretend when outside of the dungeon?

>>96219821
Wrong. They were making a mission statement. That is the book that introduced in-character gameplay examples as well.

>>96219018 (OP)
Do you drive a replica Ford Model T?
If not, you are a hypocrite.

Shit changes, get used to it.
Boy, you are gonna be shocked when your balls drop and the pubes grow in.

>>96219018 (OP)
Infantile language games is the venue of the midwit.

>>96236102
Then why are you posting on the internet?

>>96219795
I'm a FAG (fantasy adventure gamer)

>>96219018 (OP)
... ok?

>>96219018 (OP)
They're not mutually exclusive. Anyone who tells you they are is manipulating you for a reason.

>>96219026
fpbp

>>96222128
they're just salty that nobody wants to deal with their autism and powergaming eh

Faggot.

>>96225535
I think you just lack the mental capacity to recognize that video games do it better.

Excellent Rage Bait.

>>96221603
>>96221546
Replying to yourself is indeed, pathetic and hilarious.

>>96246168
>>96246478
Why are you congratulating yourself on excellent bait when nobody in this thread goes above tepid, you got less than 70 responses, and you've been put on life support by bumpfag?
Are you so starved for attention? Do you have so little to do?

>>96219018 (OP)
>Daily reminder that I'm an insufferable faggot who plays with my teeny dick hoping it will get bigger but it never does, not even in my equally tiny imagination.

using these games as a framework for improv storytelling/acting is actually a pretty cool idea.

my problem is when that becomes the norm. a few guys do some YouTube series, and now 'storygames' are just the default? wut.

I have a history with competitive video games, so whenever I see "mechanical challenge" in tabletop RPGs it feels completely contrived, competitively absurd (you're all supposed to be co-operating) and mechanically dumb/broken/RNG unless you're going full OSR style and then you're just roleplaying through things like disarming traps and stuff anyway. Unless the GM is using premade adventures, the amount of effort that goes into contributing to the game as a GM is monstrously high which is soul-destroying when everyone flakes anyway.

If I'm gonna be actually playing TTRPGs again I'm gonna want to play something like Nobilis/Chuubos/Glitch/WTF with no RNG (would love to hear about non-Moran diceless RPGs, like Amber maybe?) and mechanics that are pushed towards making the unique part of TTRPGs shine, along with putting a bit more GMing power & responsibility into the hands of the players.

>>96262069
what you're saying is like, the total opposite of what i believe.
get rid of 'competitive video games' in the sense of mathematical systems, pure numbers. hell think of it more like a physics engine: you could just put those crates down to hop over that radioactive swamp, maybe even in some way the devs didn't intend.
that isn't even 'roleplaying' disarming a trap, it's just playing the damn game, cooperatively.

>>96262077
A lot of people have been mindbroken into thinking that a "mechanical challenge" means number crunching and moving figurines around a board because that's how far their creative thinking goes. The idea that a mechanical challenge can be overcoming something the referee prepared in a creative and clever way is foreign to these people.

>>96262100

Then there's a miscommunication here about what "mechanical challenge" means.

I would've thought that if a challenge was based in and interacted through the actual mechanics, then it would be a mechanical challenge.

If it's a challenge based in and solvable through creative imagination, then it's a creativity challenge.

That's literally what i said about OSR style roleplaying through disarming traps. It's not mechanical, it's creative - maybe it could be conceived of as mechanical if you're especially autistic about modelling the newtonian physics of the trap disarmament, but at that point you should just start actually building these things out and messing around with them, at least in simulations, so that your dumb bad human brain won't skip important and unintuitive physics details relevant to the trap.

>>96262118
>I would've thought that if a challenge was based in and interacted through the actual mechanics, then it would be a mechanical challenge.
You interact with the games world through the mechanics.
>>96262118
>That's literally what i said about OSR style roleplaying through disarming traps. It's not mechanical, it's creative
Traps are an intended mechanic of old-school D&D.

Bumped off page 10 again, fucking spamming faggot.

>>96262124

>You interact with the games world through the mechanics.

Much like how colour was invented in 1975 allowing the first colour TVs to be made, imagination and communication seem to also have been invented in 1974 when D&D was first published.

Seems a bit hard to invent colour, without being able to communicate with each other or to imagine things, but people in the past must have been built different.

God this board either got baited hard or it's OP having a conversation with himself.

>>96262134
>>96262191
oh no people are having discussions on the message board.
if OP is doing some troll gimmick (beyond the condescending tone) i earnestly agree with what he's saying. i really dislike play-acting D&D, but i enjoy dungeon/wilderness exploration D&D.

>>96262199
Retard

>>96265570
Why are you guys so scared of the idea that mechanics matter?

>>96219026
theatre kid faggots mad.

go be troony losers the fuck else where you child molesting queers

>>96219018 (OP)
Fuck off PbtA faggot, you're not fooling me, your storyshitting meme failed, just give up. Still dealing with those trust issues we talked about?

Mod thread

>>96219018 (OP)
>kriegsspiel developed as an officer training tool
>free kriegsspiel develops to free the umpire to make decisions based on their knowledge to ensure realistic outcomes for the players ("""""storygame""""")
>strategos develops out of the free kriegsspiel end of the spectrum (also a """""storygame""""")
>wesley adds civilian roles to his braunstein wargame session (even more """""""storygame"""""""")
but muh gay semantics about "adventure" vs "roleplaying" or some shit, braunsteins were actually about resource management

>>96273662
These all have pretty in-depth mechanics. Free-kriegsspiel being some "free for all do whatever I want" thing is a myth.