Thread 96230326

>le (late) medieval fantasy setting
>it has an egypt inspired nation
>its just ancient egpyt

why not just do a mamluk styled egypt or coptic one? do Americans really don't know history? lol

Islam is boring compared to mummies and shit.

>>96230339
not really but ok why not just do coptic then? also I think having ancient Egypt shit in early modern is kinda cringe

>>96230348
rent free mutt

>>96230359
thx for burp tho

>>96230358
>not really
Most people disagree, which is why you don't see Islamic Egypt cultures instead of ancient Egyptian ones.

>>96230382
and most are done in such a shit way or ignore the time period overall boring shit like Warhammer fantasy

Ancient Egypt is more in popular conscious because when the Islamic hordes swept across North Africa they wiped out all the natives and their histories. It took white archaeologists to learn the varied and fascinating history of Ancient Egypt. This was in the 1800s, far after Islam fell out of any sort of global relevance. Plus the Arabic hordes who initially spread Islam have no real culture, being an ex-nomadic trading culture that dealt in gold, slaves and violence exclusively. That's why most Muslim representation is Persian, a far more complex culture and people.

>>96230326 (OP)
>fantasy setting
>is ahistorical
Based wikipedia reading pseud.

>>96230535
This. There's the Korran (god) and what can co-exist with the Korran. The answer is, not much.

>>96230326 (OP)
because dirkas are fucking gay and pyramid builders are fucking based

>>96230326 (OP)
>why not just do a mamluk styled egypt or coptic one?
I'm not sure if you were just shitposting but somehow this caused a surge of inspiration in me; I have a desert that the players want to explore and I've been delaying them because I found it boring due to muh pharaohs and mummies, now I'm gonna add a hypermilitary caliphate in there. Somehow it just hasn't occured to me, even though I literally had islam-adjacent occultism in there already. Thanks, anon.

>>96230326 (OP)
It's crazy how Egypt's only international relevance is from thousands of years ago, like Mongolia

>>96230790
Egypt stayed much more relevant for much longer than Mongolia, and in ways that were actually productive. But then that's what happens when you're on the Med rather than a steppe nowhere wedged between China and a mega-shithole.

>>96230790
I feel sorry for the Mongols
>be excellent warrior culture
>conquer your cowardly, effete, rich neighbors
>and their cowardly, effete, rich neighbors
>your lazy sons are culturally colonized by your slaves with their garbage mind parasite ideologies
>your empire falls apart and you end up an irrelevant backwater
>later your statehood is saved by a completely psychopathic russian larper

>>96230326 (OP)
>why not just do a mamluk styled egypt or coptic one?
Don't tell anyone I told you this, but most people are lazy and fucking stupid and don't like touching things they're not comfortable or familiar with. They will rationalize it as "its boring" but they also know jackshit or have some modern political grievance that's coloring their perception way more.
You could absolutely do that but I'm also lazy and stupid. I remember hearing that in medieval Egypt, even though it's been almost thousands years since anyone knew how to read hieroglyphs, they still held some importance and people would draw them on their shields for protection and good luck charms. And I think that's pretty fucking cool.

>>96230707
>even though I literally had islam-adjacent occultism in there already
That sounds interesting. There's a lot of islamic esotericism that's ripe for the picking.
Ancient Egypt is fascinating and yet at the same time, feels boring too. Maybe I think too much gold is guady. It's more interesting as a long lost civilization the main heroes are simply walking in the ruins of.

>>96230535
Modern Egyptians are overwhelmingly the exact same as ancient egyptians and a new language and religion didn't change that. It's Israel tier propaganda to say otherwise.

>>96230326 (OP)
Traditional games?

>>96231155
We're left to conclude that it's that religion which does the damage, suppose.

>>96230339
FPBP

>>96230326 (OP)
>do Americans really
t. Butthurt goatfucker mad he got bombed

I think it's too easy to lump them into the "Arab" box, which actually stretches from Morocco to Persia. It's a similar thing to how the shorthand "medieval Europe" covers 500 years and dozens of cultures and styles. It's an easy trap to fall into and I'll hold my hands up to it. A friend was starting a Mongol army, and I was looking at the Mamluks to give him a 'real' opponent (and it would have been a big contrast to my other, heavy-infantry-reliant armies at the time), but I honestly couldn't tell you what made them different to others, although it has been years since I seriously looked at it.

>>96231012
>Said Russian larper is actually a Baltic German

>>96233740
Taliban stil rule Afghanistan.
Taliban are armed with modern gear rather than old soviet crap.
Taliban still ban women from basic medical care.
You just wasted 20 years, trillions of taxes and thousands of your own lives for nothing. Take the L with some dignity and acknowledge they won. Like Charlie did before.

>>96233839
Like most Russians who actually did something besides drink or rape his own daughter, he wasn't a Russian.

>>96233842
Weord concession but I'll accept it nonetheless

>>96233842
>soviet
>crap

What? it still works

>>96233842
As >>96235266 points out soviet equipment was good wne it was made 30 years ago.

>>96230326 (OP)
That's more of a JRPG and Warhammer thing, not a D&D thing.

>>96230326 (OP)
>ancient egypt nation is ruled by undead who hide in their pyramids while the living of the region are at their mercy or outright flee from the region
It’s not really that much of a stretch. Just replace mameluke warrior slaves with mummies and liches.

>>96235763
Most of the current american equipment was also made 30+ years ago. The M1 is from the late 70s. The B2 people were basedfacing at was from the mid 80s. Missile defense and warfare is from the early 90s. American shit is modernized more often, but it usually comes from the same generation.

>>96236138
US equipment was made directly to counter soviet one.
M1 and Javelin were made because T-64 and T-72 was introduced. US or anyone really didn't bother making new tank because Russia didn't made new tank, just put better optics and engine on T-72 and called it a day. Patriot missiles from 90's intercepted almost no Iraqi Scud despite being designed to intercept Scuds, modern patriot intercept Iskanders.
B2 is only used against opponents with no real air defence, so it might be old, but is never under threat from enemy.
Soviet Union introduced Su-27 and Mig-29 as response to F-15 and F-16, so USA developed and introduced F-22 then canceled production only to intorduce F-35 because China and Russia got it's first 5th gen fighter.
USA isn't introducing new designs because it's opponents don't make anything new, and entire US arsenal was made in response to USSR's new stuff.

>>96236138
The m1 and b2 have gotten significantly upgraded over the last 3 decades though

>>96230339
This, islam is boring and shit.

>>96231155
yep thousands of years of ethnic replacement and foreign occupation doesn't change a nation at all only an israeli(LMAO) would believe this

>>96236224
>directly to counter
This implies they're built to counter them. They aren't, it was just an arms race that America was often behind in (And still is, frankly).

>>96230393
>or ignore the time period overall boring shit like Warhammer fantasy
ok we actually gotta give it to warhammer here because the ancient egyptian dudes are straight up undead motherfuckers who are a couple thousand years out of date in universe
like they're not just contemporary to everything else, they woke up and they're cranky everything isn't how they left it

>>96236868
>it was just an arms race that America was often behind in (And still is, frankly).
Not in the 90's, and now murrica is still leading, they might have do something if T-14 entered serious production, but in current state of affairs modernized M1 is still on top. This is also why F-22 production got discontinued, because it was expensive and at the time no one else could even design gen5 fighter, not even talking about mass production.
>This implies they're built to counter them
Yes they did, M1 got heavier armor when it turned out that T-72 is armed with 125mm gun and not 115mm one from T-62 and 120mm gun was go to gun for Abrams when it turned out T-72 had thicker armor than expected. They bothered to make M1 when soviet developed tanks that could win against M60 and M60 was developed after they got intel that T-55 could take on M48 without problem. F-15 was created because very bad inteligence gathering by CIA, when they mistook Mig-25 for air superiority fighter with crazy capabilities instead of what it actually was, interceptor that go fast and high.
Every new weapon system introduced was created as a response for enemy creating new better stuff.

>>96230326 (OP)
>Ancient Egypt
>hey guizs Arabs are Egy-
Fuck off.

>>96233842
>won
I remember when the Taliban destroyed US forces in the middle east and didn't just hide in caves for 20 years.

>>96236868
>behind in
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>96236138
not to mention the M2 is nearly 100 years old, that's how based it is.

>>96237920
It's tertiary weapon system of vehicles that serve mostly as backup, there is no need for new one because this one still works as intended. Russia only developed KORD because they lost license to NSV

>>96237427
>Not in the 90's
Yes, even in the 90s, America was still trying to play catch up.
>Muricca is still leading
It's not and never was. We're behind on drones, massively behind on missiles, massively behind on AD, and we're finding out most of our post-'91 tech is crappy and we're never gonna have enough. It's gotten so bad we had to surrender to the Houthis and enter negotiations, and all we can do about it is cope and seethe.
>Yes they did
No, they really aren't.
>M1 got heavier armor
This had nothing to do with countering the gun on other tanks. In modern war, tanks aren't even meant to fight other tanks. Its armor can't stop a 115mm, 120mm, or 125mm tank cannon. The M1's armor was primarily made heavy in the hopes of better surviving ATGMs and ATRs.
Turned out, it still can't really survive them so now it's just annoyingly heavy and harder to produce.
>F-15 was created because very bad inteligence gathering by CIA
This is a common thing redditors repeat, and as usual it has little to do with reality, the F-15 was designed to replace the F-4 as a dedicated air superiority fighter. It's why it has an internal gun and was expressly designed with ground-attack capabilities in mind, as the F-4 was sorely lacking in both of those departments.
>Every new weapon system introduced was created as a response
Yes, but this doesn't mean it's a "counter". We're not building counters, we're trying to match capabilities. And doing this in place of innovating has also left us behind time and time again.
But hey, it's great for careers!

>>96237454
NTA, but I was there when the US tried and failed to take those caves. And the towns. And the cities. And then got run out of what places we took.
Sorry, anon, but the only way you could say we won is if our goal was to donate a bunch of equipment to the Taliban.

>>96238176
>you were there
No.
>run out
Yeah no. What I remember was people begging us to stay, people throwing their children over razor wire and mothers begging us to take their baby girls. Fun fact, the Taliban are 90% foreign fighters, hence why they had to wait until we left.

>>96230326 (OP)
>Egypt should be boring generic arab towel heads
nope

>>96238199
>No.
Yes.
>Yeah no.
Yeah, we were.
>People begging us to stay
Yeah, the private army we'd trained and had been supporting to no progress and constant defeats for 20 years was begging us to not leave them to get smoked. We did and they got crushed.
>B-but they're foreign fighters
And they beat us. Anything else is cope. Sorry that you can't handle becoming the underdog.

>>96238199
>Fun fact, the Taliban are 90% foreign fighters
Makes it even more embarrassing that we were never able to beat them lmao

>>96238160
>drones
WHAT.
>missiles
LAMO.
>AD
Patriots and Stingers are the highest rated AD in Ukraine.
>surrender to the Houthis
>traffic is still passing through
Uhhhhhhhhhhhh
>M1 armor
>DU
>most effective against KE rounds
Yeah you're fucking dumb.
>F-15 was designed as ground attack
FUCKING WHAT.
>the US has the only 5th generation fighter and only ABM interceptor (Typhon) in the world

Go away.

>>96238223
>An entire post of nothing but "I don't understand so I'm going to act incredulous as a rebuttal"
I accept your concession.
We have sunk so low as a nation, we can no longer admit defeats for fear of looking as weak as we are. We're becoming the equivalent of an aggressive pursedog: We couldn't even fight a rat and win (especially if it's wearing sandals and a towel on its head), but we'll bark at every other dog we see to pretend we're not small and defenseless.

>>96238211
>any of this
No.
>>96238220
>never able to
For 20 years. The Taliban were DEFEATED. Only the influx of foreign money and fighters kept them even a memory, and only after we left. When most of the EKIA's you get for more than a decade are Chech mercenaries and Saudi fucktards who couldn't speak Pashto or Farsi to save their lives speaks volumes. Only the refusal to hit Pakistan or Saudi Arabia allowed the Taliban to fester.

>>96238243
>any of this
No.
>reeeeeeeee
Yeah go crawl back into your hole.

>>96238160
>We're behind on drones, massively behind on missiles, massively behind on AD
Most people have no idea how bad it's gotten. We have made one (1) drone platform, sent it to ukraine, and it flopped so hard we don't even pretend it was anything but shit. We have enough interceptors to last us maybe a month against Iranian/Chink/Russian BMs, and maybe a month's worth to shoot back if we're extremely conservative. And the only hypersonic we're working on can't even do test launches, after years of development, without failing.

>>96238243
>can't fight
>looks at Russia and China
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>96238247
No.
Yes.
>For 20 years. The Taliban were DEFEATED.
For 20 years, we were unable to defeat the Taliban*
>Only the influx of foreign money and fighters kept them even a memory
This is also true of our invasion, so this means nothing.
>Only the refusal to hit Pakistan or Saudi Arabia allowed the Taliban to fester.
It had little to do with refusal, and more with inability. If we had a good chance of winning, we would've tried, but we never did.

>>96238250
>No.
Yes.
>[Small dog noises]
Get raped.

>>96238267
>>96237463
So this is what being desperate and ashamed looks like.

>>96237427
>Still leading
>We built the M1 (Came out in 1980) to catch up to the T-72 (Came out in 1973)
Burgers are incapable of consistency lol

>>96238259
>drones
We possess the largest drone fleet in the world.
>the little EFP/grenade drones
Either jammed into oblivion or their operators tracked by FLIR and killed. The Houthis achieved ZERO damage while losing nearly the entirety of their leadership and losing their largest port.
>hypersonics
Pershing II's say hi faggot. From 1988.
>be Iran
>hypersonics will kill the great satan!
>do absolutely no damage to Israel and only kill Palestinians
Never mind Russian hypersonics, those are about as useful as V2 rockets. The US stopped hypersonic development for extremely accurate and stealthy cruise missiles, which could sink the entirety of the PLAN fleet and they couldn't do shit about it.
>useful hypersonics
Only if they put nukes on them, which then we introduce our SLBM's with a CEP of only 5 fucking meters, which means no bunker or silo is fucking safe from a first strike.

>>96238223
>the US has the only 5th generation fighter

"No, the US does not have the only 5th generation fighter. While the US possesses the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II, which are both considered 5th generation, other countries have also developed 5th generation fighters. China has the J-20 and J-35, and Russia has the Su-57, all recognized as 5th generation aircraft, according to a military news site Simple Flying."

>and only ABM interceptor (Typhon) in the world

"Several countries possess anti-ballistic missile (ABM) systems, including the United States, Russia, China, Israel, and India."

burgerbros I don't feel so good...

>>96238281
>>96238285
>t.seething Russians or turd worlders
How's that "special military operation" or "liberation" working out for you? How does it feel losing more troops in a week than the US does in ten YEARS.

>>96238310
>Russia and China
No. Those are 4.5 at best, their RCS's, range, and production numbers firmly put them into gen 4.

>>96238309
>We possess the largest drone fleet in the world.
That would be China. We haven't even integrated FPVs yet lol.
>Either jammed into oblivion or their operators tracked by FLIR and killed.
The Russians and Ukrainians tried this, doesn't work.
>The Houthis achieved ZERO damage
A few downed aircraft, and according to one panicked admiral they made an aircraft carrier flee and possibly hit it. We had to surrender and negotiate with people we called terrorists for safe passage, sorry bro its over.
>Pershing II
Sorry, not a hypersonic. We only have the dark eagle and it still can't pass a field test to save its life.
>do absolutely no damage to Israel
We had to negotiate a ceasefire because they were doing "no damage"? Even despite Israeli censorship, they also had clear losses. You smell neurotic.
>The US stopped hypersonic development
Nah, we've kept it going because we have no idea how to deal with them, and we still can't make it work.
Sorry man, we're just behind. We are no longer the world hegemon, we're just trying to be the janitor of Europe and the Americas at this point.

>>96238322
>Talk about the Taliban
>Starts seething about the Ukraine war
Sorry fatty, you can start mocking the Russians *after* they've spent 20 years in Ukraine and retreat, not before.

>>96238328
I take the words of fighter pilots more seriously than a call of duty player who doesn't even know what an ABM is lol

>>96238322
>How does it feel losing more troops in a week than the US does in ten YEARS.
t. Donald Trump, known Epstein Associate

>>96230326 (OP)
>do Americans really
I like how they've become so fragile that this is ALL it takes for a thread to devolve into political shitflinging.
If my country was so fucking garbage I couldn't withstand being lightly mocked without screeching, I'd kill myself because it'd mean I was Indian or American.

>>96238160
>It's not and never was
It was leading for entire XXI century. Since 90's it was leading in terms of ground equipment, Abrams and Bradley had thermals while T-72 and T-80 did not and Russia started mounting thermal sights in tanks only around 2005 and in ifv in limited numbers around 2018(while it was standard for USA in 90. USA had scopes for standard issue rifles since 90's Russia still have problem with it today. List goes on.
>We're behind on drones
You mean what is happening in Russia-Ukraine war? They are using cheap drines and trench warfare because neither side have any real advantage, USA and NATO base it's doctrine around achieving air supremacy and bombing shit out of opponent, you don't need fpv drones when you have strongest and best trained air force in the world.
>missiles
Just US and rest of NATO decided to not make short range ballistic missiles, and everything above 500km range was banned untill recent by treaty, but you don't need BM when you have strongest air force in the world and can just drop bombs using 5th gen fighter for cheaper.
Only thing that showed bad preformance was patriot in 91, but as ukraine war shows it was fixed, and A-10 but A-10 sucks as concept and you can't make it work anyway.
>Houthis
You mean religious nutjobs who will never surrender no matter how much bombs you throw at them? You could nuke Yemen and they still wouldn't give a fuck. Fact you could negotiate with them meant you won.
M1 during design was uparmoured specially against new soviet 125mm gun, composite armor is good against heat rounds and apfsds is major concern.
>And doing this in place of innovating has also left us behind time and time again
Everyone is stagnant, best Russia could do was upgrade T-72 with thermal optics and put most ammo from crew compartment into back of the turret.
US is still leading in military technology. And US military is best organised and funded in the world.

>>96238428
>It was leading for entire XXI century.
No, anon, it was not. We were behind several times, as has been admitted in this thread, and attempting to play catch up.
>Abrams
>Bradley
The Abrams came out 8 years later than its competitor. That was 8 years where we were behind, anon.
>Russia started mounting thermal sights in tanks only around 2005 and in ifv in limited numbers
The T-90 came with Thermals in '92 and the T-80U had them in the same period as well.
>You mean what is happening in Russia-Ukraine war? They are using cheap drines
Anon, they are using cheap everything because they didn't sell off their military manufacturing. Being cheap and easy to make is something you *want* for your military equipment.
>because neither side has an advantage
Wrong! It works because both sides have access to precision artillery and support fire in the form of drones. You can't amass a force anywhere, move a convoy, send in a column, etc without drones tearing it to shred. They are a very decisive, winning factor. That, combined with AD, means we'd be doomed in a similar conflict because we simply don't produce enough artillery, drones, and have enough manpower to keep up without instituting a draft.
>Just US and rest of NATO decided to not make short range ballistic missiles, and everything above 500km range was banned untill recent by treaty, but you don't need BM when you have strongest air force in the world
"Don't need" is a very different thing from "Can't make". At this point, we need them, because there's not an airbase around that will stay operational within BM range. The Ukrainians have had to use every trick they can just to fly a few sorties a day, and all of these are for localized shootdowns of drones.
>but as ukraine war shows it was fixed
Last I checked, we have a video of one getting smoked by a Ballistic Missile. Maybe you have some footage hidden up your rectum nobody else has seen, but from what we see: It ain't fixed.
(Cont'd)

>>96238330
NTA, also not burger
>We haven't even integrated FPVs yet lol.
Because USA don't need fpv drones, this is why USAF is biggest air force in the world with all kinds of guided munition.
>The Russians and Ukrainians tried this, doesn't work.
Neither Russia or Ukraine can achieve air superiority so they have to rely on low quality cheap drones and trench warfare, when Russia achieve local air superiority they do advances quickly.
>Sorry, not a hypersonic
By that logic nobody have hypersonic missile, russian "hypersonic missiles" are just standard balistic missiles and all ballistic missiles since V2 during WW2 fly at hypersonic speeds.
Only real problem US is having is production capacities, because after cold war was over nobody expected major war to errupt so production was shut down. Also US was lacking in artillery shell department because unlike Russia who was poor and not with best air force to put it mildly, US based it's doctrine on air force doing heavy lifting and artillery working as support of ground forces instead of artillery doing majority of the work like in case of russia's armed forces.
>We had to surrender and negotiate with people we called terrorists for safe passage
That's how it usually works, they are bunch of islamic nutjobs who either "win" or became martyrs and who were bombed for so long they no longer give fuck. Same thing happened during golden age of piracy, it ended because goverment announced ammnesty and then hired ex pirates to hunt remaining pirates.

>>96238428
>>96238458
(Cont'd)
>You mean religious nutjobs who will never surrender no matter how much bombs you throw at them? You could nuke Yemen and they still wouldn't give a fuck.
The enemy being strong-willed doesn't change the reality that we had to accede to their demands.
>Fact you could negotiate with them meant you won.
Hah, no. They're terrorists, we make it policy not to even negotiate with them. So If we need to beg for a peace treaty after admitting OPG (Operation Prosperity Guardian) failed, after the Houthis shot down over half a billion dollars in drones, after costing us a few planes and lives, well, we've lost.
To say anything else is just face-saving cope. We're anons on the internet, we shouldn't need to do that.
>M1 during design was uparmoured specially against new soviet 125mm gun
Again, wrong, because it can't resist it anyways.
>Everyone is stagnant
No, anon, the Russians, Iranians, and Chinese aren't. Russia was a mess for 20 years after the USSR fell apart, China was a source of cheap labor, and Iran was a mess then too.
We decided to take advantage of that by selling off our industries and offshoring manufacturing for a quick buck.
But them? They decided to start getting their shit together, and now they're outproducing us, making things we can't, dominating a new field of warfare, and we're not even sure how to put together a basic FPV package that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. And even when they cost that much, they still work like shit!

>>96238481
>Also not burger
You pretty obviously are. Starting your post off with a lie is poor form.
>Because USA don't need fpv drones
Cope.
>Neither Russia or Ukraine can achieve air superiority
The Russians have Air Superiority. They fly 200 sorties a day on average, the Ukrainians fly 5 on good ones. The Russians drop their own version of JDAMs on everything they see and send in missiles whenever they want something under AD coverage destroyed. Doesn't matter, doesn't work, drones just kill any troop concentrations.
>By that logic nobody have hypersonic missile
How so?
>russian "hypersonic missiles" are just standard balistic missiles
The Pentagon disagrees, and the Pentagon believes their only hypersonic is the dark eagle and that it doesn't work. I guess you know more than all those stupid old military men, eh retard?
>Also US was lacking in artillery shell
Is*
>artillery working as support of ground forces
This is how Artillery works in Russia as well. You're embarrassingly uninformed.
>That's how it usually works
Lol? Yeah announcing that we failed and need to plead the Houthis to let our ships through is totally how we always handle people who didn't do what we wanted.
Oh, no that wasn't it. We launched ground invasions that turned into unwinnable slogs. Now we're so fucked we can't even do that lmao

>>96238481
>Same thing happened during golden age of piracy, it ended because goverment announced ammnesty and then hired ex pirates to hunt remaining pirates.
Your example fails badly then because we paid the Saudis in equipment and money for 10 years to kill the Houthis, and they got fought off.
So this is like if 17th century Pirates had just forced the Royal Navy to surrender and start paying them money to go through the English Channel unmolested. Embarrassing.

>these replies
>thats_bait.gif
But on topic:
1) The only people who've heard of the Mamluk Sultanate in Cairo are Paradoxheads and Turkish nationalists
2) Ancient Egyptian stuff is featured in a lot of the pulp adventures and orientalist fiction that inspired early modules
3) Ancient Egypt gives you mummies/undead, a bunch of esoteric ancient gods, god-kings, massive monuments with dungeons inside (including pit traps and hidden treasure!), and monsters/animal people. Mamluk Egypt gives you a strange and interesting government.
4) Egypt after the Pharaohs isn't associated with Egypt. If someone has a !Saladin or !Cleopatra they're associated with !Arabs or !Romans

>>96238458
>No, anon, it was not. We were behind several times
When? In 2000 US had best armed forces in the world, Russia was getting up from economic crysis and china was trying to caught up. Meanwhile in 2005 USA introduced and mass produced F-22.
>The Abrams came out 8 years later than its competitor.
And T-72 came 13 years after M60 was introduced, they even put bigger gun and bigger turret on T-55 making stop gap solution called T-62. That was 13 years of USSR falling behind.
>The T-90 came with Thermals in '92 and the T-80U had them in the same period as well.
No it did not, Russia introduced thermal sights in it's tanks in 2005(same year USA introduced F-22 lol) with T-90A and it was imported french thermal. You can see nice IR reflector on T-80U, it still used night vision with IR lamp instead of thermals.
>Anon, they are using cheap everything because they didn't sell off their military manufacturing
They are using cheapest solution in form of fpv drones because they ran out of serious numbers of heavy equipment, artillery and can't achieve air superiority, unlike USA in every conflict or jews against Iran. Neither Russia nor Ukraine can achieve any advantage so it turned into trench war of attrition.
>That, combined with AD, means we'd be doomed in a similar conflict
Or you know you can have competend SEAD something that USAF is training with obsession because USSR had strong air defence. Russian air force wasn't training SEAD at all and now they suffer consequences.
>The Ukrainians have had to use every trick they can just to fly a few sorties a day, and all of these are for localized shootdowns of drones
They conduct regular airstrike missions with stand off ammunition that west decided to donate to them. This is done while using outdated F16 variants that were donated because they are phased out in favor of F-35 or straight up using old Soviet Mig-29, Su 27 and Su-24.
>Patriot
It regulary shoots down iskanders and kinzhals over ukraine.

>>96238524
Not that anon but the 17th century English Channel was infested with Barbary pirates, who took thousands of Christian sailors into slavery in North Africa. They even raided coastal towns in Britain and Ireland, and the British negotiated a treaty with them in 1675 after bombarding Tunis and Tripoli.

>>96238608
So what you're saying is that America is less capable today than even the British Empire at its worst.

>>96238585
>>96238585
>When?
Why do you ask this when you had a direct answer in the post you're replying to? Disingenuous?
>In 2000
We're talking pre-90s, anon. Learn to read.
>And T-72 came 13 years after M60 was introduced
Yes, and they were on par with the M60. And then they got ahead of us with a newly developed tank.
>No it did not
Guess you better tell the engineers who built it they were wrong then, because they say it did.
>They are using cheapest solution
They are using a cheap and new solution that allows them to put out ridiculous amounts of precision guided munitions at pretty fantastical ranges, yeah. Do you have anything useful to say here that isn't cope?
>They ran out of serious numbers of heavy equipment, artillery
According to what, your ass? They were using these from the start of the war, so how could either side have run out by then? Simply put, they couldn't, and you have no idea what you're talking about.
>Can't achieve air superiority
According to the US's definition of air superiority, they have.
>Or you know you can have competend SEAD
Well, we've never had that (I like how you started saying "we", when you were pretending to not be an American lol).
>Russian air force wasn't training SEAD at all
Weird, they say they were. We say they were. So... Huh, it's like you just don't know what you're talking about and are making things up or something? Heh.
Besides that, they've got the best form of SEAD: Hypersonic missiles. We've seen them take out Patriots and S-series AD multiple times in this war.
>They conduct regular airstrike missions with stand off ammunition that west decided to donate to them.
If you consider bi-monthly to be regular, well boy, we better hope the Chinese only shoot a couple missiles at us every 2 months when WW3 gets going. We *might* actually win at a pace that slow.
>It regulary shoots down
Regularly*. Please seek an education. Anyways, the Ukrainians claim it does, but we've yet to see any evidence.

>>96238608
One difference is that the Barbaries asked for the treaty. *We* were the ones who begged the Houthis to stop destroying our shipping lanes after OPG failed.

>>96238610
No. Obviously not. Are you retarded or just pretending to be on a Mongolian basket weaving forum for attention? Either way fuck off retard

>>96230359
tpbp

>>96238641
>No. Obviously Not.
But we're at the point of surrendering to the pirates because we couldn't even bombard them correctly, so how aren't you saying that?

>>96238482
>They're terrorists, we make it policy not to even negotiate with them.
That's just typical propaganda lie, you always negotiate with terrorists, even if just to buy time for other action.
>Again, wrong, because it can't resist it anyways.
And T-72 build to resist M60's 105mm gun also can't resist it anymore because new rounds were introduced. But outside T-90M other Russian tanks can't load newest DU rounds because it's too long for turret. You can always destroy tank, question is how hard it is, in terms of Abrams it's one of best armoured and safest tank in the world, just by merrit of having total of 0 rounds stored in hull unlike T-90 or Leopard 2.
>No, anon, the Russians
Managed to make 5th gen fighter 15 years after US, and 9 years after US discontinued production, and still they didn't managed to produced them in any meaningful numbers, China took 12 years to caught up, while managed to make serious number of planes they still fall behind USA in terms of numbers and quality.
>Iran
Yes they just got destroyed by jews and then stealth bombed by USA, their only solution was to throw fit and deplete their stocks of balistic missiles while trying to do any meaningfull damage to israel, spoiler they didn't.
>Cope
You don't need fpv drones when you have air superiority. You can just bomb enemy position and artillery no problem.
>The Russians have Air Superiority
Then why launch stand off bombs from their own airspace instead of going into Ukraine airspace and hunt for artillery and enemy positions? oh that's right no air superiority, so only stand off munition remains.
Only thing that Russia have as hypersonic is Avangard that was never used. "Hypersonic" Kinzhal is just iskander launched from aircraft and it get intercepted by patriot.
>This is how Artillery works in Russia as well
No Russian army is based around artillery, this is why they fire hundreds thousands shells, because they can't produce enough precise munition and can't get air superiority.

>>96230339
>what are clans, what are pre-islamic cults, what are muhammed descendants, or more like WHO are the true descendants of the prophet, what are islamic cosmographers, ye olde science, origin of math, etc, etc, etc
You could very easily organize an Islamic-inspired adventure, but who would give a shit? Better stick to yet another English medieval mudslop featuring Sir Horseshit going on le epic Quest to save Princess Inbred from the Dark Bitch.

>>96238619
>Well, we've never had that (I like how you started saying "we", when you were pretending to not be an American lol).
I never used "we", only "we" in my posts is when quoting your points.
You are either retarded or trolling.

>>96238654
>That's just typical propaganda lie
No, anon, it's government policy. We do not negotiate with terrorists, and we never accede to their demands.
Except against the Houthis, whom we did.
>And T-72 build to resist M60's 105mm gun also can't resist it
That's because it's not built to resist it.
>Managed to make
Anon, it seems you can't read. We're talking about cold war tech and who was keeping up and staying in the lead. You said the US was always in the lead (But strangely think the M1 was somehow meant to 'catch up and counter' the T-72). After the USSR fell, it didn't matter anymore because there was no longer a cold war arms race, the cold war was over.
>Yes they just got destroyed by jews
Ah, yes. I remember when the Iranian capital fell and they signed a surrender treaty to be annexed by Bibi and... Oh, huh, that didn't happen.
Well surely they pursued a ceasefire at least and-
Oh, it was the US that requested a ceasefire after we failed to destroy their nuclear site. Hmm. Well, so much for being destroyed by jews, but you seem to make up alot of fantastical things so what's harboring one more delusion going to change for you, really?
>You don't need fpv drones
"I don't NEED your fancy shmancy drones anyways", he screamed childishly as he retreated from Houthi drones.
Let's face it. Need is irrelevant. We want to maintain on-par military capabilities everywhere, and now we can't do it anywhere. We're basically just hoping the Chinese don't keep ramping up fighter production, or we'll be left behind in every category.
>Then why launch stand off bombs from their own airspace
We did the same things in Iraq and Afghanistan, anon. The answer is that it's safer and often faster too. If there's even a 0.1% chance that you get shot down, and you can reduce that to 0% while accomplishing the mission, you do it.

>>96238654
>No Russian army is based around artillery
No, Anon, the Russian army is based around using artillery in conjunction with other ground forces. They are heavier on artillery than we are, but this does not mean, as you think, they put artillery first and everything else second.
Against a foe with a vastly inferior airforce and reduced AD network like Ukraine, they can (And according to the US, have) achieved air superiority and use "precise" (The proper word is precision, civvie) ammunition as they please. They just killed 28 people the other day in a strike on Ukraine's capital.

>>96238681
>I never used "we",
Except for here >>96238309
What, you think your samefagging isn't unbelievably obvious? So embarrassing.

>>96238654
>And T-72 build to resist M60's 105mm gun
The T-64 already outclassed the M60 in firepower and armor you retard. The T-72 was just an improvement on the T-64 (More reliable, easier to mass produce). What cesspit are you digging out these nonsense claims from? Are you a lazerpig fan who got lost or something?

>>96238685
>'re talking about cold war tech and who was keeping up and staying in the lead
Oh then it changed one time soviet took the lead then USA took the lead. Tho USA was almost always better in terms of navy, and most of the time better in terms of air force, soviets usually led in terms of ground forces and air defence, also had more nuked in later years of cold war.
In late 80 and early 90's USA was leadin in terms of quality but soviets had more vehicles.
>>96238704
?

>>96238737
Yes yes, everyone knows what inspect element is, samefag.

>>96238648
Both cases saw a navy from a distant state bombard pirate bases before negotiating because an invasion wouldn't be worth doing. Either that was surrender in the 17th century or it isn't now, you don't get to have it both ways.

The Houthis also have explicit aims they are trying to achieve with their piracy: supporting Hamas and the Palestinians. The "surrender" didnt stop the US from sending billions of dollars of aid to Israel, supporting Israel against international efforts to impose a cease fire and hold Israeli leaders liable for war crimes, or directly striking their primary backer and ally (Iran). Nor have they raided American settlements or sunk American warships, the Houthis have pretty clearly gotten the worst of the fighting.

>>96238737
>Oh then it changed one time
We were spending almost all of the cold war playing catch up so again nah not really. But I'll accept that you concede that you were incorrect about your jingoist claims.
>In late 80 and early 90's USA was leadin in terms of quality
They actually had (Still have) us beat there on the ground.
For the air, we had the edge in quantity once, but definitely not quality. Across the Korean and Vietnam wars, the Russian equipment fucked us in the ass so hard we came away making some of the best planes in existence (At the time anyways). Today, those are all phased out, and we're massively behind on the air front. On drones, we're simply fucked. Otherwise everyone knows how shit the F-35 is, the F-22 is a rust fleet that we're trying to get rid of, and for older generations the Ukrainians vastly prefer MIGs and Sukhois to our F-16s, our main workhorse plane. Take that for what you will.
At least we'll leave behind some cool looking museum pieces.

>>96238753
>Both cases saw a navy from a distant state bombard pirate bases before negotiating
In one case, the pirate base asked for negotiations and acceded to the British.
In the other case, the distant state begged for a treaty and acceded to the Houthis.
So yeah the US is way worse off than the British Empire, thanks for showing us why!

>>96238753
>The Houthis also have explicit aims they are trying to achieve with their piracy: supporting Hamas and the Palestinians. The "surrender" didnt stop the US from sending billions of dollars of aid to Israel
The surrender didn't involve that to begin with lol.
The Houthis started escalating again just today and are trying to sink more ships again btw. So I guess we not only surrendered to our Barbary pirates, but they then ignored our surrender and kept stealing slaves because it wasn't enough to satisfy them.
Maybe we can make a hollywood movie where a marine kills 6 billion yemenis? idk boss looks FUBAR to me.

>>96238704
You can tell its a samefag because he happened to reply to >>96238330 instead of the other posts in the thread he would've disagreed with, while the anon from >>96238309 never made a reply.
It's an instance of someone thinking "Fuck I look retarded, let me change personalities and try to win this argument again!"

>>96230339
Correct, and why none of these autistic "muh fantasy deconstruction" settings nunerds try to force ever gain traction.
>inb4 some gay series no ones heard of

>>96230393
>and most are done in such a shit way
How? I like seeing them done at all because real Egyptian history is way more interesting than when they got put under durka durka boots.
>or ignore the time period overall boring shit like Warhammer fantasy
People love Tomb Kings though.

>>96233832
Culturally the Egyptians are just arabs though. I don't know about genetically but they're incompetent and retarded like Arabs, lose wars just like Arabs, and rule their country with a tinpot dictatorship like Arabs.

>>96230535
The white archaeologists cared about the shiny stuff mostly and ground mummies for fertilizer
It's true that it's still more than the rest ever did, though

>>96238870
Tbh Egyptians have been like that since the end of the fucking New Kingdom. The only difference between them and Arabs is that Arabs are slightly better at avoiding foreign rule, while Egyptians have spent most of the last 3,000 years under foreign rulers, who get replaced by another group every couple of centuries.

>>96238676
>could very easily organize an Islamic-inspired adventure
Yeah, but you'd be accused of Orientalism and Cultural Appropriation or maybe even outright Racism and then you'd get cancelled or something.

>>96238337
Why not before? Russia have already lost 8x as many of their men in Ukraine as America and all America's allies did together for the whole of the 20-year Afghanistan stint.

>>96239503
>Why not before?
Because mocking someone for something that hasn't happened is pretty dumb, anon.
>B-but muh casualties, 50 million dead ruzzians!
Yes yes, and I'm sure they're going to collapse any moment now, and that ruble is finally rubble for the 3rd year in a row.
The propaganda just stops working when it becomes so obviously untrue that it can be laughed off.

>>96239133
No, they weren't. By the end of the New Kingdom they never recovered back to their golden age, but they retained their culture and mannerisms. They were very culturally distinct from modern day Arab-Egyptians, to say nothing of religion.
They even maintained much of their culture and ways under Persian, Greek, and Roman rule, to the point where the Romans regarded them as almost disturbingly alien even when they idolized and wanted to emulate the Greeks.

>>96239546
So you've not been visiting the footage threads.

>>96240054
I've seen more clips of war footage than posts you've ever made, kiddo. Despite the Ukrainians posting every single one they get, the Russians somehow still post more.
And more importantly, the Russians send the Ukrainians thousands of dead bodies on the regular, while the Ukrainians struggle to scrape together a few dozen.

>>96230339
Trvthnvke

>>96230339
True, most of the interesting parts of MENA culture are interesting in spite of, not because of Islam. It's a very authoritarian, homogenizing religion, so there's just little you can do with it. Mamluks specifically were rather oppressive so they represent the worst of it (even if ironically it was the masses that were the source of the intolerance rather than the elite). The most popular "Islamic" setting is the kind of orientalized depiction of the middle east like you see in The Thief of Baghdad or Sinbad. Where the evils can be airbrushed away and it leaves behind funny dressing sexy brown people going on weird adventures in foreign looking lands.

Personally? I don't like 1 for 1 "x culture but fantasy" settings that much, and I prefer urban fantasy (what do you call pre-industrialization urban fantasy anyway?) for my dose of real world but magic. If you want to base a fantasy setting on a muslim nation/culture, there's better picks than the Mamluks. Ottoman Empire is fascinating in how it could simultaneously be remarkably reasonable at one moment, and be sustained by one of the largest slave economies in human history on the other. Not to mention some quite intriguing court politics and once you get to a certain point, a shockingly diverse group of territories all held by the imperial power base in anatolia. Safavid Iran is another good choice, the gunpowder empires are in generally tragically underused.

Ancient Egyptian trappings may seem silly contrasted with the rest of the world being medieval, but Fantasy is called Fantasy for a reason. Cultures do not develop at the same rate, especially when they lack contact with outside technology. Not to mention, perhaps the author wants to speculate what a "pagan" culture in the middle ages would look like? I think it's poor form to assume intent as to why certain things are more popular than others, and if one wants to see something in fiction, by all means, write it yourself.

>>96231155
Are you being retarded on purpose or on accident?

>>96236843
>ethnic replacement
Beyond Greek colonisation brought by Alexander that changed Egyptians from Kemetites to Copts, there really wasnt any replacement. The Arab conquests barely made a dent in the Egyptian population, and Coptic language and culture even flourished under them. It took the Fatimids to replace the coptic language with arabic centuries later. All ethnic peninsular Arabs trace their lineage to tribal ancestries. Few Egyptians can do that
>Foreign Occupation
They were ruled by foreigners even at the height of their civilisation. Nubians, Hyksos, even King Tut has west European dna. This isnt at all unique to Egypt, the UK is currently ruled by a German

>>96240390
Are you admitting to being a pedophile or did everyone already know?

>>96230326 (OP)
Traditional games?

>>96238259
>hypersonics
we've had those since the 80s in america, mr. russian.

>>96240159
So, no, you haven't been watching the clips, and you're not really up on the terrible state the russians are in.

>>96241164
Why are your insults and arguments so poorly conceived?

>>96230358
>not really but ok
People prefer the preislamic versions of islamic countries.

>>96246730
Yeah, basically everything pre-islam was more interesting than post-islam, culture wise.
Kind of like how christianity ruined all the good europe mythology.

>>96247484
you lost tho

>>96242673
You should let the guys in the pentagon know anon, they've been freaking out about us not having Hypersonics of our own.

>>96248932
They've not been, though.
>>96248207
Your shit's boring.

>>96251945
People arguing about hypersonics forget both america and russia had them in the cold war. You literally can't build a re-entry vehicle without figuring out hypersonic movement.

>>96238676
>You could very easily organize an Islamic-inspired adventure
Why would I do that? Either I get called racist for appropriating culture, or a fag for trying to do it in the first place. WotC won't touch Al-Qadim anymore. Critical Role got sandblasted for trying to set something in Tal'Dorei's Islam Desert - and that's Matt Mercer's OWN SETTING! What's the point? Just do what everyone else does and insert a bunch of smug brown Muslims in your fantasy Europe campaign, people fucking love that.

>>96230326 (OP)
Basically nothing of note happened there between death of Cleopatra and Napoleon's Egyptian campaign.

Because that shit sucks ass.

Ancient Egypt is cool.
Ancient Greece is cool.

Nobody wants to make a game where the focus is PAY DENBTS greece for the same fucking reason, retard.

>>96230326 (OP)
>why not just do a mamluk styled egypt or coptic one? do Americans really don't know history? lol
yes
All the posts claiming that medieval and renaissance islam is boring are pure copium.
It is as boring as medieval europe and this shit gets thrown around all the time.
Just ignore the monotheistic aspect like most do for faux medieval europe and lean into more of the fantasy elements and you re done.

>>96251945
>They've not been, though.
Yes they have been.
https://breakingdefense.com/2023/10/pentagon-efforts-challenged-by-immature-hypersonics-tech-supply-chain/

>>96252013
Yes you can, and it's evident you don't know what a hypersonic missile actually is.

>>96255564
They're literally hypersonic, the only reason they're not weaponized is treaties ya goddamn retard.

>>96255441
Yeah, europe is way more interesting when you remove the christianity and revert to the style of gods beforehand.
just like the middle east is way more interesting if you remove the muslim and revert to the style of gods beforehand.

>>96256114
>They're literally hypersonic
I don't know why you think you understand what a hypersonic missile is better than the people in charge of our national defense, but I'll indulge you with a bit of education.

The two main categories for hypersonic weapons are boost-glide Ballistic Missiles, which the US and allied countries have not infact produced nor do they keep or know how to make, and engine-boost Cruise Missiles, which the US and allied countries have also not produced working versions of.

What you're trying to pretend is a hypersonic weapon are missiles that are incapable of in-atmospheric maneuver at hypersonic speeds, and during the terminal phase can't maneuver as actual hypersonic missiles do.

If we went by your personal definition then Hypersonic missiles have existed and been in use by every major country since the 20th century and nobody would care, but we obviously aren't. Your terminology is ignorant at best, and more often just a deceptive cope for the fact that the US is no longer ahead on military technology, but lagging behind.

Thus, we're going to keep using the actual definition that every military on the planet uses.

>>96262929
To further add.
>The only reason they're not weaponized is treaties
1. The missiles you claimed count as hypersonics ARE weaponized, ya goddamn retard.
2. We have no treaties against creating, producing, or using hypersonic missiles, and it's not like anybody would follow such a dumb treaty in the first place.
If we don't have a piece of military technology, the sole reason is that we lack the capability to get it.

>>96262929
Neither did Russia, they only had avangard, they announced works and is supper cool in like 2018 and then gave no update, no test nothing.
Other than that they try to gaslight everyone into believing that Kinzhal is hypersonic, when it's just Iskander BM put on plane, they are at point when they include carrier aircraft range into missiles range.
While you might shit on western tech, russian and chineese is even worse, they just hide it behind strong man facade.
If anything bigger concern is RS-28 Sarmat blowing itself constantly, because they will get it right finally and be able to replace R-36M that were serviced by Ukraine before 2014 and are at this point 30-40 years old.

>>96262974
>Neither did Russia
Anon we have literal footage of Hypersonic Missiles being used on Ukraine. Please go inhale your copium somewhere other than /tg/.

>>96263009
You mean Zircon that slows down to lower than hypersonic speeds and get shoot down by patriots?
Every time Russia use their new wondrous weapon system its performance turns out way worse than advertised.
While west had some problems like patriot's preformance or lack of thereof in 90's or germans laughting at russian tanks throwing towers, only to have leopards 2 throw towers in it's first real combat deployment in 2016.
But somehow USA was able to invade and occupy 2 countries on other side of the world, while Russia struggled on their own turf with Chechnya and fucked up invasion of Ukraine big time, we are talking 3000 tanks, 4800 ifv/apc and 1100 spg/mlrs confirmed destroyed.
That's more vehicles destroyed than US casualties in gulf war, 2001 invasion of Afghanistan and 2003 invasion of Iraq.

>>96263133
>More insane coping
Yawn. Nobody believes you, and nobody cares that your ego got broken in half by a bunch of ragheads.

>>96263133
>we are talking 3000 tanks, 4800 ifv/apc and 1100 spg/mlrs confirmed destroyed.
Wait, you take the Ukrainian MOD's numbers at face value? The same people who tried to assassinate the US president?