Thread 96238574

Soulless edition

>Bans
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/banned-and-restricted-june-30-2025

>News
The 2025 MagicCon and Pro Tour Schedule:
https://www.magic.gg/news/the-2025-magiccon-and-pro-tour-schedule

>Metagame Mentor: The Winners and Losers from Standard's 2025 Rotation
https://www.magic.gg/news/metagame-mentor-the-winners-and-losers-from-standards-2025-rotation

>Spoilers
http://www.magicspoiler.com/
https://mythicspoiler.com/

CONSTRUCTED RESOURCES
>Current meta, complete with deck lists
https://www.mtgtop8.com/
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/
>Build and share casual decks
https://deckstats.net/
https://tappedout.net/

CUBE RESOURCES
>Build and share Cubes
https://cubecobra.com/landing

CARD RESOURCES
>Search engines
https://scryfall.com/
https://mtg.wtf/
>Proxy a deck or a cube for cheap
https://www.makeplayingcards.com/
https://pastebin.com/9Xj1xLdM
>Play online for free
https://untap.in/
https://dr4ft.info/

>What is EDH?
https://vocaroo.com/1ihc21gJLBh1

>WotC's War Crimes
https://pastebin.com/JRYDiAjq (OLD)
https://pastebin.com/nEcKGAys (NEW)

>Previously
>>96226942

>TQ
What is your favorite artifact type?

>>96238574 (OP)
Bobblehead

>>96238574 (OP)
I want more blue blood.

>https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=71876&f=PREM
45 players
>https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=71875&f=PREM
40 players
>https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=71540&f=PREM
81 players
>https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=71249&f=PREM
107 players
>https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=71247&f=PREM
60 players
>https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=69859&f=PREM
177 players
>https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=68297&f=PREM
279 players
>https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=68163&f=PREM
92 players
>https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=68886&f=PREM
84 players
>https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=68956&f=PREM
66 players

Embrace tradition.
Come back to Premodern, /tg/.
Come back home...

ded gaem, ded thread.

I prefer the original

Trying to make as good of a Foundations Simic deck as possible as a challenge. These are what I've picked so far and am stuck. Any suggestions?

I hate how they didn't do shit with Koth for years and now are trying to force black characters that nobody likes (Oh look I m Zimone, I can spell every single number in pi!)

People genuinely liked Koth and there was always people asking where he was or if he was alive, wotc just made him a side character on the story he should be the main character and even removed a plane people liked just to make a cheap wakanda.

God, I hate wotc.

Does Sliver Overlord being a Special Guest card in EOE have any lore implications?

>>96239779
Actually yes. Slivers are a movie monster(think xenonorphs from aliens tier) in EoE, it's mentioned a few times as a joke

>>96239792
Oh, I was hoping they'd finally get their spotlight in the lore but I guess I'll just keep waiting.

>>96239800
IMO they're gonna have slivers in lorwyn or strixhaven next year.
They're definitely setting up that there's hidden sci-fi caches on various planes(like the Vault in OTJ), and one of them will have slivers

>>96239856
Fingers crossed they're not just mooks or feral clones again.

>>96239856
You think we're gonna get new ones or it'll just be a bunch of reprints (Except Sliver Queen who's never ever coming back)

>>96239904
A mix I think. A few slivers desperately need a reprint and they'll want more EDH-capable sliver stuff.

>>96239856
Slivers in Lorwyn would be a pretty huge event if the authors still know about the lore.
But it'll probably be a big nothingburger

this game is made by sbi which is a front for ham*s

>>96238574 (OP)
Have the upcoming UB sets killed your hype for Magic anons?

>>96239792
They do seem to actually exist, but they're mostly thought of as a myth, a story. Sami's implied to have personally encountered them and has blocked out that memory entirely.

>Opponent can clearly see my commander is sidisi
>Plays T1 altar of the brood anyways
>Concedes to a horde of zombies by turn 4
I do not understand.

>tfw tg had traditional format
>it died
>wizards took its name in mtg arena
>killed it there too

I remember around the time RtR releas me and my friedns compleaty misunderstood Populate and thought it works like Proliferate, but for tokens instread of counters.
Dude built a token deck with a bunch of draft chaf Selesnia cards which were actually increadibly OP when they doubled his board every time he cast one instad of adding 1 guy.

>>96241577
>commander
opinion discarded

>>96241577
>commander player is dumb
And fire is hot

>>96238739
>cast gush returning 2 islands to my hand

>>96240642
you can't kill what was already dead

>superhero soup movies shit the bed at box office
>lets create up to 6 sets with this popular franchise
>the hype for spiderman is on aetherdrift tier
>draft 2 was created just to save this trainwreck of a last second set because asscreed underperformed
cant wait for Maro to tell us how awesome these sets performed

>>96242138
[current set] was the best selling set of all time!

>>96242138
>draft 2 was created just to save this trainwreck
it was also created because they wanted commander players to get into limited, so instead of 8 people you just need 4
god I fucking hate commander so goddamn much

>>96242191
draft is dead in paper anyway. unless you nolife arena you get crushed at paper drafts.

>>96242191
Draft died along with draft boosters

>>96242138
I can't believe they thought making this clearly Asscreed ripoff of a set but this time slapping "Spider" on everything will be something people would appreciate.

I really hope this shit and Fagatar sets flop hard

were there any hyped serials announced?
how the fuck are presales already reaching $1k?

>>96242341
Speculators. Soulless normie lizards who are not in touch with nerd culture thinking spider man will sell great because everyone knows spider man.

>>96242341
its the pokeinvestors thinking every set is FF

>>96242341
Funko collectors

>>96242421
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP
MAKE IT STOP
PLEASE
STOP

>>96242411
Even thirdies know how popular Marvel is which is why the cards are getting stolen from the Amazon warehouse and sold on Facebook before street date lmao.

>>96242624
Speculators and scalpers with warehouses of boxes they're trying to sell for 950 dollars

>>96242421
Hope they make a broken Red Skull so people will be forced to play with a nazi

>>96242640
>Return to Lorwyn postponed again, as 2026 is slated to be 6 Marvel sets so they can finish the infinity gauntlet faster

>>96242624
sure thing, maro

>>96242665
>MtG renamed to "Marvels: The Greatest"

>>96242421
If Darkhawk doesn't get a card I am calling him a liar.

Is kitchen table 3+ player non-edh mtg without oppressive removal the most fun way to play this game?

>>96242421
>mark "I'LL MAKE COMPANIONS LOOK LIKE A FUCKING JOKE" rosewater

>>96242600
Thirdies don't have money for mtg. The trannies that pay for a ff14 sub do.

>>96242762
almost literally said cultural appropriation is okay when we do it

>>96242867
I'm not implying they're buying anything. They're the ones stealing the cards from the Amazon warehouse they work at. Being based enough to disrupt WotC's endless spoiler season by leaking the whole set early.

What are some gimmick decks that are fun for both players, but can still actually win games?

>>96242026
gg I concede.

>>96243166
>fun
>win
Pick one.

The old demon strat seems to be working fine.
>control hand
>kill creatures
>put down big boys
>win

Planewalker cards need a universal ban. They ruin the game whenever they're in play.

>>96243431
That's why you need to run interaction cards, anon.

>>96243431
This is like when people say the problem with MH2 evoke elementals is that they're `free` spells when there have been lots of free spells in Magic's history that are mediocre or unplayable. Most planeswalkers are terrible. The problem isn't planeswalkers, it's whatever retard designed Hero of Dominaria.

>>96243442
didn't draw the interaction so game ruined

>>96243431
We need stronger planeswalkers.

>>96243544
Nah. They should just be removed from the game entire. The player is the planeswalker. We don't need cards to be planeswalkers.

>>96243571
That ship has sailed, crossed to the orient, sunk on a reef, been raised and refloated, fully repaired and returned home loaded with spices for a tidy profit.

>>96239856
>sliver-centric set, we finally get to see the slivers' native plane
>the whole ecosystem is slivers
>tree-hives where every leaf is actually a sliver
>aquatic schools of slivers where members give each other traits like gills or fins or nidocysts
>there are Bronze Age city-hives where semi-sentient slivers are creating primitive societies
>they still rely on a hive mind though.
>there's one sliver out there with true sapience. Naturally, any other slivers near them also gain sapience
>some slivers dedicate themselves to The Sapience Sliver for fear of losing this gift
>some slivers instinctively recoil from free will, and treat this one sliver as a leper
>Jace is there for some goddamn reason. He's in his villain arc so maybe he tries to assassinate The Sapience Sliver

>>96243431
It's a good mechanic but a lot of them do too much. There are creatures in that category, sorceries, etc.

>>96243631
I guess the only thing left to do is get rid of the ship's crew then.

>>96242138
WotC saves bad sets with overloaded manabases, not draft.

>>96243650
If anything the addition of planeswalkers created greater incentive to make op creatures and removal. It's actually the same problem if you think about it.

So Spiderman killed this whole general, uh?

>>96242657
>When this creature enters the battlefield, choose a creature type, then each opponent may choose to Heil Hitler. For each opponent that does not, destroy a creature of the chosen creature type, draw a card and create one Gold token.

>>96245297
there's 2 generals for some reason
>>96233672
people are split

>>96245436
>Same number
Not until MtG gets its own Phase 4.

>>96245436
We don't know if it'll be one per set or if Spider-Man being intended as a smaller set means it'll only have one and others might have two or even three. I can't even think of what you'd do for SIX Marvel sets. X-Men could cover one, and then... Like, Cosmic stuff as one more and "Avengers and everything else" as another?

How long until mtg has it's genshin collab?

>>96245712
Almost certainly never. Genshin's long past its prime hype phase, and no gacha game really sticks around in mainstream consciousness for that long so I don't see any getting anything unless they're part of an already big IP (like, I could MAYBE see Fate getting one, possibly, but probably just a Secret Lair if anything).

>>96245855
>Genshin's long past its prime hype phase
This is a reason FOR WotC picking it up, not against.

>>96245855
>Genshin's long past its prime hype phase
So are Final Fantasy and Marvel. Avatar is barely still relevant outside niche communities.

>>96242341
fuck yes
gonna farm so many of these on the Arena win a box weekend
hope they have some surge foil spider c*nny pokemon shit that spikes them to $2000 each

This draft format is so fucking miserable.
Spiderman please save us.

>>96238574 (OP)

I fucking hate that they make textless versions of cards where it's completely unreasonable for anybody to remember what the fuck those cards do.

>>96245712
I'd equally love and hate a Touhou collab

maybe put custom card general in the OP next time. I thought there were 2 mtg threads up

>>96246473
FF and Marvel have longstanding mainstream appeal. Avatar is similar to 40k, the fandom crossover with Magic is QUITE high.

This is the real thread

>>96233672
>>96233672

>>96245436
You are also forgetting the infinity gauntlet = aka the pay out to have all 6 gems....
It is over.

>>96246898
I think that applies to all UB collabs anyone would theoretically care about. Even as a mild Final Fantasy fan, I was very disappointed by what they went with, mainly because my favorite games weren’t FFVI, VII, X or XIV.

>can't deal with turn 3 lethal from tifa
>"skill issue"

Since when is not drawing one of 12 of my removals a "skill issue"?

>>96246898
>self blink is grazing
heh

>made a grul big power creatures because i like
Zilortha, Strength Incarnate unique ability
>is completelly shit
how can i salvage this clusterfuck?

Why are there two concurrent threads?

>>96248260
>FF and Marvel have longstanding mainstream appeal.
I still know a lot of people, including parents (mainly mothers for some reason) that still play Genshin Impact. I knew a guy from a previous job that still regularly puts money into it as of July 2025. Maybe it's a bunch of weird coincidences, but it still seems really popular from my view.
>Avatar is similar to 40k,
>the fandom crossover with Magic is QUITE high.
I mean probably, I'm just surprised people still care about it that much.

>>96249574
The other was made and not shared in the older thread...
The anon who made this one didn't knew about the other because the other anon didn't share the new thread.

>>96249558
>how can i salvage this clusterfuck?
what does the rest of your deck looks like? the usual way to make big creatures work is early ramp + removal and just praying you survive long enough to do the thing

>>96245436
They could rush it by putting a different one in several precons.
But yeah as long as it sells there's no reason to stop milking the paypigs

great format...

>>96250240
It's mainly because rotation just happened and the main people playing standard right now are either people that are running rotation-proof decks with some of their rotated removal swapped out and people trying to find ways to keep playing their pre-rotation archetypes (mainly Overlord and mice/RDW). Once people start actually playing around with the new cards, we'll start seeing some diversity in the format.

Will it last? Depends on how well it handles UR Cauldron and UB midrange. All I can say for sure is that a lot of people seem to be underestimating how good the monogreen cards in this set are. It definitely seems like play design really were trying to push a lot of monogreen aggro cards in this set like they said they were. I'm almost certain we'll eventually start seeing more people with decks running either the 1-mana green Zada or better Springleaf Drum on a robot insect body.

>>96250240
Im running Gruul Delirium and I just ignore cauldron. Now white tokens? Now thats a deck for faggots

>>96250240
Big FFIX fan, negative UB Fan. at least my boy Vivi is the star in the wasteland.

>>96250240
>Torch the Tower
That card just feels way too fair idk if it's indicative of anything.

when wotc is left to its own devices to come up to a story they just rip off whatever's popular so why isn't it better to just do ub considering the alternative?

>>96256643
>when wotc is left to its own devices
They are not. They are on a tight Hasbro leash.

>>96249544
you get it, anon

>>96256643
I’d maybe agree if the properties they were bringing on were actually interesting, but there’s nothing I get out of something like a Spider-Man set, or even an in-universe superhero set for that matter. If it weren’t for the monsters, I would’ve gotten anything out of Duskmourn.

>>96248260
>Avatar is similar to 40k, the fandom crossover with Magic is QUITE high
To get into 40k, chances are high that you already considered Mtg, since the same store sells both. But I don't see Avatar having that high of a crossover, at least not any higher than FF or Marvel.

>>96258427
The only crossover I see between Avatar and Magic is through Tarkir. Not sure if the return was intentional or not, I’m pretty sure they said Edge of Eternities was the first set play design said they knew they were going to start doing UB sets for standard.

>>96257176
>Racing set
>The slowest mechanic of all time
>The slowest limited format of all time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8ktiCjAOAs
new aids just dropped

>>96258582
and the cherry on top
>FF has better vehicle support

>>96253650
>Big FFIX fan, negative UB Fan. at least my boy Vivi is the star in the wasteland.
Fuck me could you imagine if the one card from FIN to make impact in any format was, like, Vaan or Brother some shit.

I'm shocked to be able to say WotC managed to produce something that isn't the worst it could possibly be. It's like, one step away from being the worst possible thing. Which is a miracle.

>>96258587
Sunset Saboteur is unironically one of the strongest creatures ever printed. This shit is fucking retarded.

>>96258587
buy an ad

Also brew a fucking actual deck you stale ass loser. You haven't made a fresh brew in like two fucking years, every bloody deck you make is just a meta deck with one new card.

>>96258587
What the hell was that Day's Undoing...

>>96258646
Better to have a 1% win chance than a 0%.

Aggro needs to be banned from standard. If the average cost of a deck is less than 3 it should be banned

Hopeless Nightmare is better than Thoughtseize.

>>96258791
The hopeless nightmare ban was nonsense. The real problem was two white cards
>Nuturing Pixie
>Sunpearl Kirin

>>96258830
Why do you hate white people?

>>96258607
>Dies to edicts
>Dies to Nowhere to Run
Doesn't even matter anymore. At most, it'll affect the type of removal people run.

>>96258587
This card is nuts in Draft so I'm not surprised. If you have it on turn 2 with any backup it's often gg, you just remove whatever blocker they play after putting a counter on it

forcing modern piggies to run Nowhere to Run instead of broken 1 mana removal or exile a card from your hand removal is healthy

>>96258764
>Avg. cost = 1.892
If you're looking for a time long past, that world will never exist outside limited anymore.

>>96258888
>self bounce cards
>white
Pick one you can't have both

I think colorless needs to be banned from standard. Too many overpowered jank cards.

>on my way to post the new rage-inducing drama on /mtg/
>oh shit there's two threads
Fuck it, posting in both.

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/60122/hasbro-looking-romantasy-k-pop-magic-sets-expand-female-players

Good news Gooners and Coomers, you're about to be joined by Broomers and Wombers

>>96258969
>Chris COCKS
KEK

>>96258923
I'm wonder when they're gonna give something cheap a really problematic ward color, not just to the point where it feels like hexproof, but to the point where it could decide if the opponent wins or loses the game. Maybe a 1-mana 1/2 Haste with "Ward—Pay 4 life". They've already pushed it a lot lately, I'm just wondering when it will actually go too far. Arguably, Heartfire Hero might've been that card. It effectively had a better version of Raubahn's ward ability on a cheaper, more relevant body.

>>96258964
>Three colorless planeswalkers in one year
Truly, what were they thinking?

>>96258969
>Gay Bolas anon was an insider the whole time

>>96259013
Ah yes. The gay mafia bros ruining MTG again

>>96258969
>Broomers and Wombers
You mean broomers and shippers?

>>96258969
You know, I don't even care about celebs, if they made some cards that resembled them but in a fantasy theme it would be ok, but we both know they are going to straight up take modern singers and put them on cards while also making them look like shit.

>>96250240
Ruh roh, another shitty meta incoming.

>>96258969
MtG is a boy brand; wotc turns it into a black-girl brand with that nubian slay-queen planeswalker

Boys leave. Why is the sales down? Duh.

>>96258594
I thought make a busted hedgehog pie or bomb, something like that. silver linings I suppose

>>96258969
anyone remember the next set after Spiderman is Avatar: The Last airbender?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmhD1Ltx0fY

thank you google
for legacyfags, is mono blue delver a good way to get into the paper format? i play modern and i already have a lot of legacy staples (fow, fon, daze, ponder, wasteland, pretty much all the fetches, etc) but i don't have duals
the alternative would be to play burn, but i already play that for modern night, plus the deck really fucking sucks in legacy

>>96239779
I want more shapshifters getting fraud checked by the Sliver Hivemind
or more Mutant Slivers

>>96258969
Fucking do it

>>96260082
sigh
no more unbounded pls

>>96260120
>is mono blue delver a good way to get into the paper format?
unless you really like the deck for personal reasons, I don't think so
>i already have a lot of legacy staples (fow, fon, daze, ponder, wasteland, pretty much all the fetches, etc) but i don't have duals
a few suggestions then:
1. you can play some decks with shocks, yes losing the life matters but your decks are still going to be functional
2. you can play control with lots of basics, although control isn't particularly well positioned right now
3. you can play death's shadow with shocks, it's worse than traditional ub tempo or reanimator but it's a fine deck

>>96258969
I can't fucking wait for this evil company of worms go bankrupt.

>>96259009
That's Tezzeret, Ugin, and who?

>>96258830
Hopeless Nightmare is absurd and retarded. It's a 1-mana shock attached to a discard on an ETB. It was always going to be retarded.

>>96260120
Blue Delver is probably one of the better budget decks you can play, but it trades clock and the ridiculous card filtering that DRC offers or token generation that Steelcutter has for control or prison elements; more counterspells, bounce effetcs back to basics etc. Delver is good as a Legacy-style deck, but can be difficult for new players because of the need to assess threats, knowing what you can and can't let resolve. I would add that mono U has more honour than UR or UB.

Japan has some fairly dedicated players of the deck.

https://www.hareruyamtg.com/en/deck/result?pageSize=&eventName=&formats%5B3%5D=3&archetypeIds=4529&dateFrom=&dateTo=&capacityFrom=&capacityTo=&card=&player=&eventName=&grades=grades&public_status=private
https://www.mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=149&meta=316&f=LE

Other considerations would be, UW(x) stoneblade, mono B reanimator, UW(x) control or mono B aggro. The latter two don't provide much of a Legacy experience, however. If money is a concern for you you'd be better off just getting chinaman proxies.

>>96245855
I don't think you understand how much Gacha whales(Esp Genshin/HSR) spend. I wouldn't be surprised if it outsold FF honestly. The key thing is you need an IP with a very strong Asian audience and Genshin or Hoyverse still has that. As much as Genshin is not in a 'peak hype phase' anymore it is still one of the biggest games in the world

>>96250042
Genshin is a far bigger IP than most of the stuff that Magic is already collabing with. It still pulls in billion dollars a year and has a massive playerbase if you actually check google trends. Just because it isn't at the peak high it had a few years ago doesn't mean the game is anything close to being small

>>96260438
It is not on the level of FF, no.

>>96260504
>It is not on the level of FF, no.
Agreed, the Genshin IP is far bigger than FF

>>96260504
See
>>96260522

>>96260526
google searches are not a credible metric for measuring something's popularity, no.

>>96260438
What IP is Genshin bigger than? LotR? Star Trek? Marvel? Walking Dead? Street Fighter? I honestly can't think of a secret lair universes beyond thing that is outdone by genchin.

>>96258888
>8888
Checked

>>96260538
why not?

88% AGGRO
>88% AGGRO
88% AGGRO
>88% AGGRO
WILL WE SEE 90?

>>96260538
Ok and how would you do it then? The 23 billion Hoyoverse is worth? The fact that Hoyoverse is in the top 15 biggest private companies in the world?
You're just mad that gacha games are bigger than your favorite IP

>>96242772
>listening to his podcast
>discover he's an actual jew
Makes sense why he was allowed in to Hollywood, probably hasnt legitimately earned a single job

>>96260556
Forget about individual cards, how do we fix this on a larger scale?

>>96260541
see
>>96260526

>>96260551
What is there to search about Final Fantasy? Lore? Art? If you already know that, you have no reason to search for anything, barring the occasional new game releases and stuff for the considerably less popular overall FFXIV. Meanwhile Genshin and Spider-Man are constantly releasing new content; not only this, but Genshin is a gacha that by nature has a constant influx of new units, characters and interactions that players search around, discuss and argue about. It is vastly more conductive to internet traffic then FF, an older series with less things to ruminate about.

>>96260566
Obviously by banning decks until the game has a more reasonable balance.

>>96260566
KPop set will save us

>>96260556
Reminder that a good, fun, and actually proper format exists.

>>96260562
Tencent is worth 645 billion dollars, but your average person would not be able to tell you what it does nor what the company has produced.

>>96260577
It still needs and oath and parallax wave/tide

>>96260570
So what you are saying is you have no evidence at all to show Genshin is a smaller IP or that FF is bigger than it

>>96260556
>lie about what decks are aggro or not
>wtf why is there so much aggro????
when you say the word "azorius aggro" you have to reconsider what the fuck you're talking about.

>>96260566
>Forget about individual cards, how do we fix this on a larger scale?
Have good designers that don't suck ass.
Give them the time to do good work.

>>96260590
Midrange is just slower aggro
Tempo is just aggro with a few counter spells or removals

>>96260589
And yet there are over 95 Final Fantasy games, two of which are quite popular MMOs, so clearly quite a few people are buying them.

>>96260615
Not really. Midrange aims to win via accumulated value in the midgame, aggro aims to win via sheer damage in the earlygame. Very different decks. No midrange runs Boltweave, and no aggro was running Sheoldred.

>>96260623
Correct and nobody is saying FF is small which is what you need to realize. The argument is about the size of Genshin and currently it has a larger playerbase than FF, has more internet searchs than FF, earns more money than FF. So what else are you wanting to compare exactly?
I don't think you realize just how much money Genshin and Hoyoverses other properties actually make

>>96260634
>via accumulated value in the midgame
How does it do that? By attacking with creatures.
>midgame
>earlygame
Are you really fussing over a one or two turn difference? Aggro wins turn 4-5 and slow aggro wins turn 6-7. Both are still aggro.
>no aggro was running Sheoldred.
Impossible now as Sheoldred is rotated. Before, Dimir aggro was running Sheoldred in the side.

>>96260664
>How does it do that? By attacking with creatures.
Yes, so Roots is an not a combo deck as it wins by attacking you with a horde of hasted plant tokens it created you by forcing an Insidious Roots loop, right?
>Are you really fussing over a one or two turn difference? Aggro wins turn 4-5 and slow aggro wins turn 6-7. Both are still aggro.
There is a massive difference between those two decks, in fact. They run different cards, require different strategies to pilot and combat, and are classified as different decks in non-retarded sites. It's not just "the turn it wins." Anyone who has half a braincell will realize that "throw damaging cards until you win" and "accumulate value and consistently 2-for-1 your opponent until you have a winning boardstate" are obviously fucking different tactics.

>>96260664
Omniscience can win by turn 5 therefore aggro

Reminder the accepted and official list of archetypes:
Aggro
Tempo
Midrange
Control
Combo

>>96260556
combo bros… what killed us? was abuelo really that necessary?

>>96260708
this but unironically

The Infinity Gauntlet {4}
Legendary Artifact - Infinity Gauntlet
WURGB: Search your library for a nonland card and exile it, then shuffle. You may cast the exiled card without paying its mana cost.
Whenever you cast a spell from exile, untap all infinity stones you control.

>>96260695
>so Roots
If I simply add the phrase "without a combo," then you've said nothing of value. However, given the context of the discussion, combo decks are obviously not included here and I shouldn't have to include such a phrase because WE WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT COMBO DECKS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
>throw damaging cards until you win
Any good aggro will not try to just throw damaging cards at you until it wins. If you think this, you're just a bad player. You don't try to do this unless you know that you can get away with it. The only case you might generally try to play like this is when you're playing aggro against control. In which case you're trying to rush down the control deck before it can do anything.

Otherwise you:
>consistently 2-for-1 your opponent until you have a winning boardstate
which is generally the game-plan for most decks regardless of archetype. It's especially the case in aggro v. aggro. How does control beat aggro? By getting rid of the aggro's board and then taking over with its board. How does aggro beat aggro? By trying to make more efficient trades.
In summary, you've said nothing.

>>96260786
>Any good aggro will not try to just throw damaging cards at you until it wins.
yeah, which is why no aggro deck runs Lava Spike, a card that does literally nothing but damage to your opponent, right?

>>96260779
Fuck i really wanna stop marvel slop from entering this game.

If I play Aggro I’m a retard but if I play Tempo I’m smart?

>>96260786
The CORE CONCEPT of an aggro deck is that if you cast Lightning Bolt seven times, you win. Everything else is a detail. The most archetypical aggro deck even ran utterly dogshit creatures like Brass Men (an 1/1 for 1 WITH A DRAWBACK) purely because it attacks through Circle of Protection: Red. Damaging cards until you win is literally all that aggro is about. You're retarded.

>>96260800
>no arguments
>just diversions and red herrings
I accept your concession.

>>96260817
If you netdeck an aggro list, you're likely a retard, but making an aggro list requires brains.
A tempo list requires a lot of thought to pilot because it's not just aggro, it's aggro + control, and you have to manage them both simultaenously.

Reminder the accepted and official list of archetypes:
Aggro
Control
Combo

>>96260569
That's a bullshit argument and you know it.

>>96260823
why does the deck run this piece of dogshit

>>96260850
card selection in case the board stalls out, so you can dig for extra damage. it's jank but it works. in practice it just lets you reorder your deck every turn, and it doesn't ever lock you onto bad cards because it eats four cards every time

>>96260833
midrange is real too, no it isn't aggro

>>96260823
>if you cast Lightning Bolt seven times, you win
Burn is a subtype of aggro. It is impossible for an aggro deck say like white weenie to be a burn deck in spite of obviously being an aggro deck. So not all aggro decks are burn decks. Much like Midrange and Tempo decks are just sub-classes of aggro.
>Brass Men
is a 1/3 not a 1/1. It's there to help you block the 1/1's and 2/1's or 1/2's in the opponent's aggro deck.
>Circle of Protection: Red
Yeah. Because you mainboard a card just to deal with a single sideboard card. It certainly has no other uses.

The best and most pure form of Magic is Midrange, there is nothing better than a Midrange mirror where both players spend their resources, generate value and use all kind of permanents like Planeswalkers, creatures and spells to win through a long and thoughtful battle.

>>96260869
midrange is just slower aggro + power creep

>>96260869
Midrange is real
Tempo is real
Don’t interact with outdated charts faggots

>>96260887
Tempo is just aggro with a few counterspells
Midrange is just slower aggro with power creep.

>>96260877
The first aggro deck was a burn deck, and the concept that informs it has went to all aggro decks since then.
An 1/1 in a white weenie deck is a Bolt if it attacks three times. Attack 21 times with an 1/1, you win, or attack 7 times with an +2/+0'd 1/1. Simple as.

>>96260897
>Combo is just Control with a specific plan and power creep
>Control is just Aggro without creatures
>Aggro is just faster Combo
I can be retarded too anon, not as much as you though

>>96260887
>Midrange is real
Wrong.
>Tempo is real
Wrong.

>>96260877
> It is impossible for an aggro deck say like white weenie to be a burn deck in spite of obviously being an aggro deck

blasting station + recursion weenies
fire and brimstone
icatian javelineers
fodder cannon
goblin cannon
goblin boom keg
moonglove extract
mortarpod
ninja's kunai
jinxed idol
mono white charbelcher, hell theres a land tax version
blazing torch
cursed scroll
divine deflection
honorable passage
livewire lash

>>96260623
>dev makes a game
>he later joins square
>he remakes the same game but with a bucket of FF colored paint
>this and the future games in the series now count as FF titles

>full art soul stone that has no rules text
Can wizards fucking stop doing this shit. I'm only cool with full art/no rules text cards that literally everyone knows (lightning bolt, counter spell, etc)

Alternate frames that fit the theme of the set are cool ONLY if the relevant game info (casting cost, card name, creature type, power/toughtness, etc) are where you expect them to be. I really liked the case file cards, example on the left. The new EoE cards are ultra aids though.

>>96261020
>forgot pic
I'm highly regarded...

>>96260935
An analysis of these cards reveals most of them are just expensive cards to run that have never seen play in any non-red aggro decks. I.e. draft chaff or silly gimmicks. You can count the ones that have seen play regularly on two or three fingers and the ones that do are the only one that does such a thing in the deck. It's especially out of place to talk about most of these as they are generally not viable in competitive formats with only a few exceptions. And those that are run are usually not in burn decks and no one with any intelligence will call them burn decks.

Real Archetypes:
>Aggro
>Control
>Combo
Fake Archetypes:
>Midrange
>Tempo

>>96261076
FACTS

>>96261076
there's only really one real archetype
control is just slow aggro
combo is just fast aggro

Midrange decks aren't aggro decks because they aren't trying to turn their hand into damage as fast as possible; but neither are they control decks built to hold the game in suspension. They are decks using disruption and acceleration to reach a 3-5 mana threshold, which is then used to make big plays (Kaito, Annex, Fable, Garruk) that give them value over the course of the game. When they reach that threshold, they grind out the opponent and chip away at them until they win. Completely different deck.

>>96261179
Mid range is is just aggro but with gas to last more than 3 turns

>>96261201
Then it's not aggro, innit.

>>96261206
No it's still aggro. It just has power creep grafted onto it.

>>96261201
If it leaves the earlygame and is devoting resources to passive card draw it is no longer aggro.

>>96261214
The first midrange deck was "The Rock", was based on Deranged Hermit, and it is literally 20 years old.

>>96261215
yeah aggro never draws cards

>>96261219
The Rock was a control deck.

>>96261222
No.

>>96261220
This is in fact not passive card draw. In fact it's card selection. Please learn to read before you try to discuss things in the internet with people.

>>96261220
Actually they said no passive draw, in no format has aggro has ever used passive draw effects to put more gas in the ta-ACK!

>>96261232
yeah that isn't an aggro card. it's a combo card.

>>96261239
did you not play return to return to ravnica standard

>>96261239
No.

>>96261240
It's played with runaway steamkin to draw and play your entire library. Combo card.

>>96261226
>4x Duress
>Maindeck hate pieces
Yes.

>>96261232
This isn't passive draw over turns. This card essentially reads "draw cards until you find two lands."

>>96261247
Maindecking hate pieces is in fact classic midrange behaviour.

>>96261253
No that's control anon. You're confused. Midrange doesn't exist.

>>96261245
So Return to Ravnica 2: Electric mono red aggro? It's all mono red combo?

>>96261262
It's aggro with a combo backup plan.

>>96261261
Nah. Grindy deck focused on big value plays in the midgame after spending the earlygame disrupting and ramping. Therefore midrange.

>>96261274
>Nah. Grindy deck focused on big value plays in the midgame after spending the earlygame disrupting and ramping. Therefore midrange.
That's control, anon.

>>96261286
Not really. Control wants to hold the game in stasis.

>>96261269
>>96261245
>>96261239

>>96261289
>Not really. Control wants to hold the game in stasis.
Stasis is a combo deck, anon.

>>96261292
Look me in the eye and tell me you're going to use Frenzy to cast one extra card a turn and slowly increment value and not play 10 cards on a row. Tell me you're going to use it for passive value over the game. Look me in the eye and say this.

>>96261298
I can't see your eyes anon, you're posting on 4chan.

>>96261253
>Maindecking hate pieces
Is not a "midrange" thing.
>>96261247
An aggro deck can run 4 duress. Here's a premodern zombies deck with 4 duress and 2 cabal therapies in the main. Back in Zendikar, I used to run a monoblack vampire deck with 4 duress in the main.

>>96261299
problem solved. now do it

>>96261309
Wait, you're black? NVM.

>>96261306
>An aggro deck can run 4 duress.
Yeah but the rock isn't an aggro deck, it's a control deck.

>>96261316
I have to agree with that.

What are some good, broad and generic deck building guidelines for a 3 player playgroup meta that's somewhere between casual and competitive?

Like how many cards should be allocated as your primary win cons, interactions, etc.

>>96261403
Just play something janky. More casual play allows for that.

>>96261403
don't build decks if you want to win. you are shit at deckbuilding. you will always be shit at deckbuilding.
if you want to 'build' a good deck then take an existing competitive shell and change like 2-3 cards at most.
I guess if you casuals want to build your own decks then I'll give you the simple advice:
don't play bad cards to justify running other bad cards.

>don't build decks if you want to win. you are shit at deckbuilding. you will always be shit at deckbuilding.
>if you want to 'build' a good deck then take an existing competitive shell and change like 2-3 cards at most.
>I guess if you casuals want to build your own decks then I'll give you the simple advice:
>don't play bad cards to justify running other bad cards.

>>96261557
She's right

>>96261403
statistically one of you is a Timmy, a Johnny, and a Spike

>guy asks for help playing the game
>get a bunch of less than reddit tier epic zingers instead of help
This is why you never get to play outside of an LGS

Who is she?

>>96261403
First you should try and find a fourth player for your pod if you can. 3 players is fine, but it makes the game always turn into 2v1s against the lead player. 4 Players makes any alliances fragile and diversifies play states.

Second, don't get it in your head that you should have strict slots for certain types of card. Some decks will have no need for protection, while others can't get enough of it. The only concrete numbers I go for is this: Until you have a reason not to, your deck should run at least 37 lands. It broadly means you'll have a playable hand in one mulligan and statistically you won't miss drawing into your 4th land drop with a 3-land hand. Only cut when you're sure your card draw, searches and so on are flooding you.

Third, build and play your deck. I really mean that, if you're not sure about a card, swap it in and play games until it shows up (or tutor it if your deck can manage that). You'll learn more about your deck putting it up against other decks and running it through its paces than you will goldfishing it repeatedly. You'll get a feel for what you need marginally as you go, whether it be more or less lands, more or less interaction, whether or not cards are 'win more' or even if they're any fun to play.

is this the commander thread or something?

Small survey: based on your own personal experience how many MTG encounters are non-games due to mana screw/flood?

>>96262062
1 in 9 maybe? actual flood doesn't feel that common

>>96262062
Depends on how I build my deck. Ironically, I usually perform better running less lands than most people would. It definitely feels like I’m more prone to getting flooded out than I should be, no matter how I construct my deck or how many times I shuffle/let other people shuffle my deck.

>>96260398
Aetherspark.

Also 32 copies of stock up lehmao. Watch them ban cauldron instead of vivi

>>96262442
>tabletop price in the hundreds for a 60 card deck
This needs to end

>>96262494
just get cards from HIM

>>96262494
$400 for a tournament winning deck isn't that bad for Magic
but it's a format most people just play for free on Arena anyways, so there you go.

>>96262509
from WHO?

>>96261983
Honestly it's on me, there's a wall of fucking shitposting in either thread and I constantly get confused.

I want cards... cards od spider-man

>>96262442
>Ban irrelevant piece instead of Problematic Card.
Classic WotC

>>96262677
I want to get through this year and go back to Lorwyn and Strixhaven.

>eldraine doesn't rotate out until the first set of 2027
goddamn, this got to be the longest a standard set has ever been legal (not counting foundations for obvious reasons)

someone is going to trophy with Smallpox because of this janky new commander card

>>96262062
Around 5%.

>>96262558
the guy in china who makes counterfeits so good that the way you can tell they're fake is that they're higher quality than jotc

Is there an infinite win line from The Seriema like there is with Fierce Empath in standard omniscience combo ie Kona?
if you have empath in your hand you can go empath -> marang -> empath -> marang -> empath -> overlord, loop overlord to nuke for infinite damage

What can The Seriema get that actually deterministically wins on the spot?
Jill Shiva's Dominant can recur The Seriema but only one target unlike marang
you could do a weird line like Seriema tutors Sazh tutors Ambrosia but that's also just same thing as Jill
uh caradora can get a mount/vehicle, but again I don't see any mounts/vehicles that can do anything but replace themselves 1:1
is there some way to pop of with Clement, the Worrywort?
I feel like this needs way too many shit useless cards in deck but hear me out
seriema -> ambrosia bounce -> seriema -> worrywort bounce -> ambrosia bounce -> seriema -> jill bounces both worrywort and amborisa -> you now have a loop? -> need to get a finisher legendary ETB to

needs 3 dead cards in deck with ambrosia, worrywart AND some etb trigger finisher. Jill is a good card though

>>96263089
have you finalized the list and gotten to the top of the Standard ladder yet?
also just get Vivi and cast 20 spells lol
anything legendary seems worse than Empath

>>96263098
>have you finalized the list and gotten to the top of the Standard ladder yet?
with blue/green yes I have

White package with Seriema has a lot of extra consistency but doesn't lend itself to the same marang loops since you need 3 colors to do that, and Seriema requires 1WW with non-cavern mana so its particularly hard to get a 3 color deck functional
not sure you're getting anything valuable enough from seriema and/or pinnacle starcage to be worth the landbase falling apart since you will have at least some single color lands

UG deck can just run stock up + star chart + marang and empaths in a pinch can be 7 mana marang draws

Pio bros is just me or EoE change literally nothing from the Meta?

How do people queue up for a game, then 5 seconds later forget what the fuck they were doing and time out

>>96263237
loads of playable cards
sorcery push
star charts
seam rip
starcage
cryogen
haliya
lumen-class
pinnacle emissary
nova hellkite


cosmogrand is a trap meme card and will be forgotten in a week though

>>96263237
I think you're the only person still playing Pioneer.

THIS GAME WAS NEVER YOURS, INCEL.

>>96262442
I hope they ban both

>>96263282
you lost?

>>96263237
I'm waiting on cards getting cheap on MTGO to start trying stuff out, Modern Scales already adopted a ton of EoE cards
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/7274006#paper
I'm gonna try to do something similar in Pioneer, also I'm pretty sure there's some hidden combo deck with some Warp cards

>>96262062
About 45%, either one side or both, not quite a coin flip but on top of that even in games outside of screws and floods lands are the leading deciding factor in who takes the win, more than any of the tactics or gameplans. Even with a good start, if you miss a drop you've already lost, if you get nothing but lands 2 turns in a row you've already lost.
The game is honestly more luck based than TF2 with crit rockets on. And everyone has to play blue just to mitigate it.

>>96263274
nta but pio is the only format i play on arena. i refuse alchemy trash and it's the only place i can have fun putting cats into ovens.

>>96261007
By definition, yes. It's like saying Star Wars: Battlefront games aren't Star Wars games because EA already had battlefied games before

So they will just keep doing this now, right. Going from UB to non-UB.

>>96263388
Unless it's a UB with relatively few characters or one that's not really character-driven, yes.

>>96263388
Why did EoE have that few legendaries?

>>96263417
wrong thread buddy.
>>96263414
It didn't need to have lots of legendaries, I guess? It was just the core cast and some quirky randos

Just getting into Magic and my friend plays green ramp with Selvala. He usually wins on turn 3 or 4 with huge monsters with haste and Phrexian Dreadnaught. How do you beat this? Stax? Seems overpowered to me

>>96263414
In general they're trying to trim down legendaries, and the best place for that is in-Magic sets because UB, by its nature, tends to want a lot of legends.

>>96263433
Wins on turn 3 or 4 means it's not EDH. Dreadnought means it's Legacy or Vintage. You should probably start with Standard.
Unless it's just kitchen table whatever comes, then it's hard to suggest anything.

>>96263433
Any removal.

Green ramp is strong in beginner tables but the weakest archetype outside of them.

>>96263388
We hit the point of no return a long time ago buddy

>>96263433
Win on turn 2.

>>96263433
Have you considered run on mana cost removal and low cost counterspells?

>>96263433
>How do you beat this?
Removal spells, you want a lot of them vs green since as you have discovered they have big monsters that will crush you in 2 hits

>>96263337
Ywnbaw.

>>96263534
For which I thank our God and Savior every day.

>>96263534
Thank god.
Unfortunately for you, you'll never become a real man.

>>96263433
play black to use edicts and removal

EoE is fucking insane misery of a limited format

Found these at the bottom of an old box at work.
Newest ones are dated 2014.
I'm not really a magic guy, are they legal for anything or valuable at all?

>>96263856
I am tired of every card, UB or not, being so wordy these days

>>96263867
they are all pioneer legal but none of them are particularly valuable

>>96263867
You're looking at a whopping 6 dollars here bud, congrats.

>>96238739
>But if you close your eyes

>>96263856
And the whole set still is not shown... Can you imagine the amount of fucking slop we will end with after this trash?

>>96263856
Or wow, this can potentially let you vomit whole deck on the table when (if) it actually procs.

>>96263867
Go to Pioneer FNM with that.

>>96263844
Why? It's one of the most skill based formats of recent years.

>>96263981
Its just shitter citadel IMO. You will brick on lands fast unless you have the surveil dude and a bunch of dorks. But at that point you are better off just playing full blown artistocrats.
Maybe this is a top end in those types of decks, but outside standard you will just run citadel.

>>96263414
What’s even more bizarre is that a fourth of them were duplicates, which is especially odd because there’s not a single Eumidian legend outside the precon. The showcase error seems to suggest Genemorph Imago was originally going to me one, but they decided against it.

>>96264416
I think there was probably supposed to be an Eumidian member of the group and Mm'menon was going to have a larger role. As it stands it's very lopsided in favor of the humans and Mm'menon just doesn't do anything onscreen in the actual story despite having two cards.

So what's the story behind Tezzeret appearing in EOE? What is his deal?

>>96263388
I, for one, think going from a steady climb to a totally unstable bullwhip hell ride is an absolute downgrade.

>>96262442
F L O U R I S H I N G

>>96264473
He landed on the Edge with his indestructible body and can't leave. Now he's bankrolling the protagonists to find the Endstone so he can find out what's up with that and who's the cosmic power behind it, so he can decide on whether or not he'll kneel or try to beat it up. In the end, it seems to be neither; it takes the Endstone and Tezzeret is left with two fingers it lost in the process.

Small survey: based on your own personal experience how many MTG encounters are non-games due to mana screw/flood?

>>96264741
IRL: 10%
In Arena: 60%

>>96264741
I don't count but probably 15% if I had to guess, thats counting both me or my opponent in any given game.

>>96264741
I don't do QA for corporations for free.
If we live in a market economy that means you have to pay me.

>>96262062
>>96264741
Why the spam?

>>96264786
>implying WOTC cares about screw/flood
They just made the most money they ever have with FF, they don't give a shit if players are having non games or not.

>10 hours difference between the post is spam now
The absolute fucking state of /mtg/

>>96264741
print more mdfcs

>>96263955
Psychic frog is such a disgusting soulless card

Modern Horizons is just so fucking gay and soulless. They could've done something different other than jam psychatog, shadowmage infiltrator, and wonder onto one card, power creep one of it's abilities into +1/+1 counters instead of temporary +1/+1 and decrease its mana cost. And the biggest insult is that the art is practically a Phantatog knock-off but garbage. SOULLESS AS FUCK.

>>96262442

Stock up is legacy/vintage playable so don't be surprised if a deck can play they will.

>>96242772
It’s not enough that Palestine is genocided, but that Caucasian people must continue to be erased from Magic the Gathering too. Typical kike behavior.

>>96250240
Is this the power of Powerful White Cards?

>>96264552
We still don't know HOW he got there but that'll probably get answered sometime down the line.

the Johannes Voss art print kickstarter is up if anyone cares

>>96265078
Looks like there are no white cards in the top 20

No white cards in the top 40

No white cards until the top 60

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-staples/standard/full/all
There's infinitely more white cards played than green cards.

>>96265215
>>96265226
>>96265235
>the only green card is llanowar elves, while white gets multiple
hmmm

>>96265242
>red, blue, and black have been powercrept until green is irrelevant
>white is becoming more and more irrelevant with the rub power creep
So this is the power of judaism

>>96265215
>>96265226
>>96265235
>>96265258
Maybe one day people will wake up to the Grixis conspiracy dominating Standard ever since FIRE design

green will trend one they realize how good kona combo is

4x kona, 4x llanowar elves, 2-3x fierce empath
oh shit those are literally the only green cards the deck runs

>>96265337
Just imagine what you could do if they added hypnox to standard.

>>96265364
They did, and its tutorable with Empath and doesn't die to removal

and then you set a stop on their upkeep and make them discard the card they drew at instant speed

>>96265432
>upkeep
>drew
>upkeep
no games detected
no games detected
HAHHAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHAAHHAHHAHHHAHHA

Is exchanging life totals considered gaining or losing life? Or is it its own separate thing?

>>96265447
yes. no

>>96265447
701.10c: When life totals are exchanged, each player gains or loses the amount of life necessary to equal the other player's previous life total. Replacement effects may modify these gains and losses, and triggered abilities may trigger on them. A player who can't gain life can't be given a higher life total this way, and a player who can't lose life can't be given a lower life total this way (see rules 119.7-8).

>>96265447
Relevant ruling on a card that does this:
>When the life totals are exchanged, each player gains or loses the amount of life necessary to equal the other player’s previous life total. For example, if player A has 5 life and player B has 3 life before the exchange, player A will lose 2 life and player B will gain 2 life. Replacement effects may modify these gains and losses, and triggered abilities may trigger on them.

>>96265432
Just relived some traumatic matches against T3feri in that Esper Planeswalkers deck

>>96265491
>Planeswalkers deck
One of the reasons why planeswalkers were a mistake.

>>96265709
>>96265709
>>96265709

>>96265289
Not even just standard. Pauper is the same way and modern would be the same way if MH3 didn't overtune boros energy.