Thread 96247111

>Human Golden Age
>humans and xenos live in "peace"
>Age of Strife
>xenos betrayed humans and started multi-genocides against them
>The Emperor watched all this horror and couldn't prevent them
>The Emperor never forget nor forgives
>somehow is the "bad guy" for doing an Uno Reverse and avenge his fellow humans
>more evil than literal demons
Wtf?!

And I'm tired of Duneslop and Duneslop knock-offs dominating scifi. Tough shit.

>>96247117
The only Dune thing of 40k is:
>psykers
>God-Emperor
There's where the connections between Dune and 40k stop.
>The Imperium is from Isaac Asimov
Etc.

It's a story that exists to sell plastic army men, who gives a shit?

>>96247170
Some people, like me, want to enjoy good epic stories.

>>96247111 (OP)
>>Age of Strife
>>xenos betrayed humans and started multi-genocides against them
Except there were plenty of xenos/human civilizations encountered during the Great Crusade, I think even crushing them is what planted the seeds of doubt in Horus in the first place.

Why should we venerate a xenophobic dick head who had to have everything his way?

>>96247111 (OP)
>He made an entire new thread after I bodied him in the last one
Pathetic lmfao

>>96247237
Links?

It was literally 10.000 years ago and it wasn't even a general thing. in fact given the human genocidal crusade, humans betrayed xenos way more then xenos ever betrayed humans.
also it's retarded to hate all xenos because that is a category that includes literally every single being in the galaxy that is not human

>>96247227
This is like saying the Holocaust didn't happen because the Jewish neighborhood in brooklyn wasn't destroyed.

>>96247240
No, because the Emperor's argument is that all Germans should be exterminated because of one failed Artist...

What even are the sources on "aliens betrayed us" beyond the Emperor himself lol

>>96247227
>Okay sure, every single Xenos ally we had during the DAoT betrayed us the moment we weren't capable of gigadominating them anymore
>And sure, almost every Xenos race we encounter is either a barely-sentient megapest, wants to kill us, or wants to eat us
>But why does that mean we shouldn't gullibly lower our guard and open our doors and hearts for this new Xenobreed that totally doesn't have any dark secrets or ambitions of dominance?
>What are you, some kind of BIGOT, huh CHUD?!

People like you could have met Viking ships at the shoreline with gifts and "bigots" like me would have laughed from the safety of the fort when they took your gifts then rapemurdered you as a sacrifice to their gods.

>>96247239
You can't betray something if you don't have a compact with it in the first place, dipshit. DAoT humans had alliances with Xenos, they had Xenos vassals, there were human-Xenos factions - the fact 99.9999% of Xenos took the opportunity of Strife to cast off those alliances and become masters and overlords is what constitutes a betrayal. The Great Crusade was vengeance for those betrayals, pest control, and pre-emptive defence against future betrayal.

>>96247261
>What even are the sources on "aliens betrayed us" beyond the Emperor himself lol
I mean yeah, while there is shit out there that's hostile to humanity, the biggest native ones are literal engineered bioweapons long since gone out of control, the imperialist said bioweapons were created to fight, and now an extra-galactic plague of space locust.

>>96247265
>>Okay sure, every single Xenos ally we had during the DAoT betrayed us the moment we weren't capable of gigadominating them anymore
>>96247273
>took the opportunity of Strife to cast off those alliances and become masters and overlords
Except all the ones who didn't, that the Emperor literally put to the sword... because?!

>>96247249
The Germans killed Rome, developed Protestantism, developed Psychology, and invented Communism. There's more than just being a failed artist.

>>96247249
No, the Emperor's argument is that Xenos should never again get to betray and genocide humans en-masse. Hence why they removed the possibility. If they were focused on total and pure xenocide the Emperor would have spent efforts doing so instead of just clearing them out whenever they were in his way or an immediate threat.

In real life the policy of the entire western and soviet worlds was to never let the holocaust happen again, and Germany's government is structured around never letting it happen again. We killed an extreme amount of Germans to make sure they'd never do it again, too. And we'll kill even more if we have to.

>>96247211
Have you tried classic literature?

>>96247265
>Okay sure, every single Xenos ally we had during the DAoT betrayed us the moment we weren't capable of gigadominating them anymore
fanfic
>>96247265
>And sure, almost every Xenos race we encounter is either a barely-sentient megapest, wants to kill us, or wants to eat us
fanfic
>>96247265
>"fagots" like me would have laughed from the safety of the fort
accurate

>>96247111 (OP)
This is because you're a lorelet.
>The Emperor (ultra-meta-genius) didn't invent nor create a lot of things that previous editions said He created
Because that's the fucking trick of Warhammer's setting. THE IMPERIUM IS A LIE DOWN ITS FOUNDATION.
The God Emperor was just a powerful psyker, but an otherwise fallible human being. He wasn't a god. He wasn't all knowing. He wasn't all powerful. He was some petty warlord from humanity's forgotten homeworld (maybe) who conquered a shattered galaxy after it collapsed from a golden age.

>ruins His relationships with half of His Sons cuz... (bad writing)
Because he was a terrible human being and a terrible father. He made a bunch of supersoldiers that mainly existed to be weapons, then decided that these weapons were his children and filled them with delusions of grandeur.

>kill The Reborn Emperor, The Star Child, The Savior / Mithras of Mankind and its Last Chance
Because you all don't get the fucking metaphor. So they're making it more blunt.
THE ONLY WAY FOR HUMANITY TO THRIVE IS FOR THE EMPEROR AND THE IMPERIUM TO DIE.
They killed off most things like The Star Child because rather than the player taking the message of "the empire must die for a new future to be born", they took the message of "the emperor has to die on the throne and then emerge three days later from a cave."

>>96247111 (OP)
>Human Golden Age
Never happened.
>Age of Strife
Caused by the Emperor.
>xenos betrayed humans
Humanity attacked first by colonizing the galaxy retard.
>The Emperor watched all this horror and couldn't prevent them
Because he's a dipshit. He had 30k years to get ready and did nothing.
>The Emperor never forget nor forgives
Incel self inserting.
>somehow is the "bad guy" for
For literally dooming humanity, yep.
>more evil than literal demons
it's daemon, arch, and the daemons would create less human suffering than the Emperor has, that's objective fact according to the writers themselves. Sorry that the game doesn't appeal to your fashy fantasies.
Post Minis or don't (you) me.

>>96247265
Vikings werent mysterious undiscovered aliens showing up out of the mists, there was centuries of trade in furs, spirits, grain and lumber before AND after they started raiding the brittish coast. We were so close we used the same alphabet. You can laugh from your fort, but for 800 years before and after the viking period my "gifts" are trade goods making me rich AND building my fleets while you subsist in arrogant isolation scratching oats out of the frozen soil because you refuse to talk to people who are most likely your cousins.

Oh, and if every single xeno hates you and "betrays" you at the earliest opportunity, you might benefit from some self-reflection

>>96247645
That's quite the power fantasy you've constructed there anon, but it doesn't change the fact that you're a broke retard irl who wouldn't make it two weeks in a non-welfare state.

>>96247111 (OP)
The Emperor is a literal tyrant and asshat that wants to replace Humanity with his perception of a perfect human race and did nothingn to correct his fucked up system of governance. Fuck him. Also why we here rmfuck Chaos Gods they are all cunts.

If I was a perpetual Human I woukd be happy to watch the Emperor suffer and the rest of humanity go extinct because they all like cucks lost what it meant to be human.

>>96247694
>Daddy issues: The post

As long as one human (perpetual) survives into eternity why the fuck should I care about the rest of my species who are mutated/spreadout/in numbers too high to count when we basically succeeded at the goal of life?

>>96247111 (OP)
>constantly
Where?

>>96247693
Trading booze for logs is a power fantasy?

>>96247754
Yes. Think about it. Trees are everywhere. They are basically free. You can take them home with you or buiod one from them.

Booze on the other hand makes you feel things ans quenches your thrist. So if you show up tonsome retards wanting your logs for booze, you basically made a giant power move.

>>96247160
>feudal social relations IN SPACE
>fate drives society
>emotions cause magic

Warhammer is Dune

>>96247754
ESL moment.

I'll be honest with you

I don't mind that it's all fake, or that his ambition ruined his dream, or if the result was already predetermined, or that he just took advantage of other's inventions

Every belief system needs unquestionable foundations that can't be proven

In him I trust. To the End

>>96247111 (OP)
>>xenos betrayed humans and started multi-genocides against them
Never happenned.
>>The Emperor watched all this horror and couldn't prevent them
Quite false. He wasn't watching he was making deals with Chaos Gods and was preparing a fighting force for them.
>Wtf?!
Grow up amerimutt

>>96247770
Not when you need old-growth oak for its high strength and density, and already clear-cut all the local forrests in previous centuries without a reforrestation scheme to replenish the supply. For a good few hundred years brittish warships were made of scandinavian oak in exchange for ales and grains that grew better in the warmer celtic climate. I cant comment on the lopsidedness of the trade, but if you dont make it you just dont have warships for 200 years while the trees grow back

>>96247811
Low effort

>>96247863
>>96247770
>>96247754
>>96247811
>Replying to yourself
40kiddies are pathetic.

>>96247799
Fake comparison. 40k isn't Feudalism in space, neither Dune nor 40k is about Fate driving society, and also neither of them is about emotions causing magic.

You haven't actually read anything about either of these settings. In fact one of the most important elements of Dune is explicitly contradicted in 40k, which is the notion that a harsh environment can create in human beings a stock of essentially superhuman warriors who just need fervor to drive them to galactic conquest regardless of whether they have any sort of actual military traditions outside of tribal vendettas.

In 40k this exact opposite is shown, where the Cadians are the gold standard of Guardsmen simply because they have a hyper-entrenched military tradition, but Cadia is just the Pacific Northwest as a planet. The greatest soldiers in the galaxy come from Space Oregon, not Catachan or Tallarn. This is to set aside that 40k isn't about the galaxy pivoting around some hyper-scarce fuel resource, which was retarded in Dune and would be even more retarded in 40k.

Anyway it's not Dune, you're just low IQ.

>>96247924
>In fact one of the most important elements of Dune is explicitly contradicted in 40k, which is the notion that a harsh environment can create in human beings a stock of essentially superhuman warriors
Catachans are considered superhuman warriors by human standards and the more literal superhuman warriors explicitly recruit from death worlds.
Try again nogames.

>>96247880
>p-pathetic!

The only pathetic thing here is apology for Xenos. In-Group preference is a strict virtue and anyone who lacks it is actually less human as a result.

>>96247924
>40k isn't Feudalism in space
Except it's actually is Feudalism in space with plenty of Imperial and Chaos feuds within one formal super-structure.
>In 40k this exact opposite is shown,
>Catachan
>Fenris
>Medusa
>Krieg
>etc

>and would be even more retarded in 40k.
Yeah right because logistics and economy would distract customers from purchasing action figur4es... sorry I meant centre-piece figure.
>you're just low IQ.
>says a 40k fag

>>96247948
>jakposting
Enjoy the vacation lol

>>96247111 (OP)
>Age of Strife lord is all completely unknown with a dozen different reasons on why it happened
>Impfags always latch onto the "xenos betrayed us....or something" story sourced from the current imperial truth
>Not the increasingly canon rise of the men of iron or the mass warp storms

>>96247938
Catachans are hyped as being great survivalists, but their actual accomplishments are not superhuman at all, their achievements are similar to or less impressive than the Cadians.

The Space Marines of course differ by the chapter, some recruit youth athletes, the Night Lords literally just recruited from street gangs, the Space Wolves recruited from Space Norway. So again, you didn't actually read any of this material. It is also very funny that you would bring nogames into this, as had you actually played the Imperial Guard for long enough to remember when the Catachans had their own codex, you would remember that they're just guardsmen with more attacks.

So, in conclusion, you have not read the material, you don't know anything about 40k (the lore OR the mechanics) and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8MZBUoQt68

>>96247981
Catachans count as wearing flak armor when shirtless and the best among them are capable of matching a space marine in raw strength.

>>96247924
>Fate driving society
40K is driven by an endless struggle between order (the Imperium) and chaos

>Emotions cause magic

The voice in Dune, and precognition
The Gods of Chaos in Warhammed

>>96247981
>but their actual accomplishments are not superhuman at all
Except they are. They've repelled major Chaos attack with no reinforcements from the Imperium.
Meanwhile Cadians are only good for dying in trenches (and they not even that good as kriegers).

>>96247981
>It is also very funny that you would bring nogames into this, as had you actually played the Imperial Guard for long enough to remember when the Catachans had their own codex, you would remember that they're just guardsmen with more attacks.
If we're going by the codex rules then Catachans are able to deflect bullets by flexing, are stronger than space marines, and in close quarters are more agile than space marines and as competent at fighting too.

>>96247956
Seething hard, glad I hit home so easily. Also I will not be published for not breaking the rules, thanks for trying though.

>>96248007
Not even remotely similar. Dune is not a story about a manichean conflict between superntural space demons and the human spirit, sorry Anon.

Can anyone in this rabble contend with me?

>>96248009
Clearly not, Teemu Horus had to drop a Blackstone Fortress on Cadia to destroy it because the Cadians held it so hard. You also don't know what you're talking about, the Kriegers' whole thing isn't being superhuman fighters, it's extreme military discipline and tradition, they're Cadia with a WWI theme.

Retards, I swear.

>>96247111 (OP)
>xenos betrayed humans and started multi-genocides against them
>The Emperor watched all this horror and couldn't prevent them
Its a lot more nuanced than that. "Xenos" arent a single, neat, unified group, and neither was humanity. The Human, Aeldari, and similar major civilisations collapsed, so warlords, minor races and smaller groups took over. Some of them betrayed humanity, some of them were always at war with humans, some of them never had contact with humans before, some of them were carving out their own empires like the Rangda. And some humans managed to live in peace with their alien neighbours until the Imperium showed up.
More importantly, the Emperor is the bad guy for ushering in "the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable"

>>96248032
None of those are true unless you're talking about the one guy who is a cyborg hero.

Catachan infantry had flak armor, 3 Strength, either WS 3 or 4 depending on the unit, and had an extra attack because they all had a melee weapon and a pistol. The flak armor is the vest they're supposed to be wearing.

>>96248076
Yeah, and plenty of humans were betraying and enslaving their fellows during that period. The Emperor was one such human, even.

>>96248066
>Retards, I swear.
Brave claim for someone with mutilated dick

>>96248066
>Teemu Horus had to drop a Blackstone Fortress on Cadia to destroy it because the Cadians held it so hard.
>Marines with Phalanx, SoBs with Celestine, AdMech with Cawl, Necrons with Trazyn all jumps in to stop Abby the Armless
>but akshually it's been all Cadians.

>>96248088
Human problems can be reconciled. Being an alien cannot be reconciled.

The Emperor was right. Total Xenos Death was the best course of action for human survival. Moreover, the story itself shows this to be true, as it was not the Emperor's attitude towards aliens which brought him down, but his relationship with his sons. By all accounts the story as told shows that the Imperium's attitude towards Xenos is entirely justified. Every group they are at war with now is going to have to be exterminated if humans are to rcontinue existing or to retain sovereignty over themselves.

>>96248091
Wow! I really did make you angry. I'm sorry Anon.

>>96248104
Everyone did their part, yes, but I think it's thematically reasonable to say that the guys whose planet it was that got cracked in half get to be the heroes of their own sendoff episode.

>>96247170
fuck off zoomer

>>96248086
>None of those are true
All of them are true.
>Catachan infantry had flak armor
Incorrect. They wear wifebeaters and the occasional non-flak vest, substituting flak with their muscles. Instead of Flak pants they wear cargo pants and camo paint and bandanas in place of helmets.
>either WS 3 or 4
Marines had WS 4, making them on par.
>Extra attack
Marines didn't get one, making them faster.
Flat out, Catachans are superhuman.

>>96248066
>Dune is not a manichean struggle

There are parallels

Society in Dune is driven by either feminine magic (the Bene Gesserit) or masculine magic (Mentats) and the best way forward is a synthesis of masculine and feminine thinking, because Paul can wield both the voice and is a mentat

Society in Warhammer is driven by either Order, or Chaos.

>>96248137
nope all false

>>96248108
The Emperor isnt even a human, and neither are Space Marines. Hes no different to the Overlords of Barbarus
>his relationship with his sons
His inability to control his posthuman weapons
>Every group they are at war with now is going to have to be exterminated if humans are to rcontinue existing or to retain sovereignty over themselves.
The Imperium destroyed many non-chaos human groups who were doing fine without them and rightfully wanted nothing to do with them. The Imperiums cruelty and oppression is what provides chaos with a constant influx of converts

>>96248126
>but I think it's thematically reasonable to say that the guys whose planet it was that got cracked in half get to be the heroes of their own sendoff episode.
It doesn't make them best humans in the Imperium at all.

>>96248134
Sergeant Harker.
>Wears no armor, gets a 5+ save
>Carries a Heavy Bolter around like it's an assault weapon
>Shoots 3x better than a Marine in full power armor even after moving
>Has a Feel No Pain roll
>Is T4, as tough as a superhuman warrior.
>Gets 3 Wounds to a Marine's 2, making him sturdier than a Marine too.
>Counts as Strength 4 in Close Combat, gets to attack FOUR motherfuckin' times, twice as many as a Marine.
A man so manly he makes genetic augmented supermen look like pussies. That's what Catachan does.

>>96247799
It's actually more like hawkmoon, moorcocks dune ripoff/homage

>>96248137
Yeah that's Elric, not Dune.

>>96247273
Crazy how that just ended up giving humans the chance to betray humans. Who could've seen that coming?

A lot of what you're saying in this thread is exaggerated or fanfiction. I never really saw him as a hero or a villain necessarily just a tyrant that started being worshipped as a god after his death.

>>96248108
This. Can't fix being an alien. As masters they tyrannize humanity, as servants they plot to rebel, as equals they plot to gain leverage and become masters. The only cure is a bullet. Then, into the vacuum left where they were, you can have human life flourish and create lasting peace and progress.

>>96247111 (OP)
>>xenos betrayed humans and started multi-genocides against them
There's is no actual evidence of this in anywhere within the fluff. It's literally just made up fanfiction.

>>96247111 (OP)
>humans and xenos live in “peace”
lul, another nolore nigger who thinks that humanity wasn’t slaughtering its way through anyone and anything they saw as weak during this “peace”

I hate how Chaos broke the 4th wall to sabotage God-Emperor at a narrative level.

>>96248703
What about that comic where the human and eldar titans team up to fight tyranids and they shake hands afterwards

>>96248703
Also what about that comic where there's a sister of battle that has knowledge that could help defeat chaos and she teams up with an eldar to find the black library. Idk they seem pretty good to me.

I swear op thinks ai sloppa is good too.

>>96248703
Not even joking, you should actually commit suicide for thinking this sounds cool.

>>96247111 (OP)
The Emperor is not evil, he does shit Alexander, Chenghis Khan, Charlemagne and Nobunaga did.
What he is is a smug cunt who insists that his anti-chaos plan will work simply because he keeps too many secrets and spreads a lie under a truth.

>>96247111 (OP)
He destroyed entire human civilizations, who wanted to be left alone, only because they had xenos in their societies. Ferrus for instance unleashes a literal nuclear holocaust and has all the survivors put to slave labor. Fucking KONRAD. Or the World Eaters. The situation got so bad BECAUSE the great crusade was so bloody it fueled the Warp even more than before.

>>96247974
>>Impfags always latch onto the "xenos betrayed us....or something" story sourced from the current imperial truth
And again, ignore the fact that former and existing interstellar civilizations featuring Human and Xenos cooperation very much exist.

>>96248076
>And some humans managed to live in peace with their alien neighbours until the Imperium showed up.
>More importantly, the Emperor is the bad guy for ushering in "the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable"
Exactly, and FOR WHAT?!
His desire for a race of super psyker humans like himself?

>>96248108
>Moreover, the story itself shows this to be true, as it was not the Emperor's attitude towards aliens which brought him down, but his relationship with his sons.
>>96248170
>The Imperium destroyed many non-chaos human groups who were doing fine without them and rightfully wanted nothing to do with them. The Imperiums cruelty and oppression is what provides chaos with a constant influx of converts
And which again, wasn't that precipitated by his favorite son questioning why they were bothering wiping out all these non-Imperial Humans?

>>96248818
>I hate how Chaos broke the 4th wall to sabotage God-Emperor at a narrative level.
Man it was his own Hubris, we barely did jack shit!

So when the Emperor came to pick up Lorgar, how did he not notice that he is standing on a planet inhabited by chaos worshipers?

>>96249349
Nevermind that. How do you take a look at this guy, and not see he is bad business? How come the Emperor never sensed his mind, but can talk to people across the galaxy?

>>96247111 (OP)
>xenos betrayed humans and started multi-genocides against them
Source on that? A lot of people say it, but from what I've seen humans were mostly being marauded by the likes of orkz and xenos who really don't seem like they were ever at peace with them
Hell there are at least two instances of humans and xenos banding together and living a chill like

The Emperor did NOTHING wrong. Their are NO gods. Xe*os are EVIL.

>>96249501
>Their are NO gods
t. Bile

Will the Necrons ever make a comeback?

>>96249399
Emperor acted in a rushed way a lot, as if his entire plan was on a timer and he was running late hence he decided to pick up Angron
Problem is, though, that...there didn't seem to be anything he was on a timer AGAINST, Ullanor came as a surprise, as did the Rangda, so that couldn't have been them either, Chaos could've been a contender but they didn't seem to have a force to rival the Imperium at that time so they had to go in and subvert it from within
Maybe he just wanted to get rid of it as fast as possible and did a lot of fuckups due to being so hasty

>>96247160
>emperor's tarot
>navigators
>all female army of fanatics that worship emperor
>Orders Famulous aping Bene Gesserit
>"lasguns"
That's just off the top of my head

I still find it funny how GW was like "The WIFE fucked up the whole galaxy! Because the man was being mean!"

Really fucking Progressive of you, GW. Do you want to turn all the Orks black now?

>>96249827
>Do you want to turn all the Orks black now?
Man, way back in the day these terrorists kidnapped a ton of tourists in north africa so the AU sent in their elite special forces to deal with them. The "Special" forces were wearing their hats backwards, duel-wielding AK's and hosing the building down with gunfire while smiling and laughing as return fire was smacking off the pavement around them. The terrorists were smiling and laughing as they were firing RPG's at the AU forces.
These men knew no fear..
They were like IRL Orks, they loved shooting at each other.

The funniest part was that the building they were all shooting at had those hostages still inside. 0 fucks were given xD

>>96247799
Dune invented feudalism, prophecy in storytelling, and spiritualistic magic

>>96247111 (OP)
didn’t callum imply he’s no longer the emperor everyone loved and warns against him coming back?
he’s evil now

>>96249905
*shit not callum, meant cawl

>>96249905
Are you fucking serious?
Please be joking

>>96249905
Cawl's not AI told that if the emperor came back they shound consider the fact that.what would emerge from the throne could not be what enter it. That possibility could bring ruin to Mankind and he conclude that all gods are a bane on existence

Setting is gonna end with chaos win anyway no?
Who cares about the emperor in the grand scheme of things

>>96249883
You know what? Those "Special Forces" were probably fighting and shooting as soon as they could hold an AK. In that sense, these were perhaps the most harden fuckers around.

>>96250038
Dey LUV a gud krump'n, boss.

>>96248137
>Mentats are masculine magic
Aren't mentats just human computers?
T.dunelet

>>96249897
cheeky fuck aint ya
go ahead, reply with :3

>>96247111 (OP)
>xenos betrayed humans and started multi-genocides against them
I will never forgive Majorkill and all the other youtube grifters for spreading this deliberate bullshit around the secondary fan community. It's impossible to have a coherent discussion on the history of 40k thanks to those gay fucking bandwagoners.

>>96250784
But isn't there xenophobic redpilling LE BASED?!12

>>96250784
Warhammer lore isn't the books it's right wing twitter memes

>>96251254
It's literally this

>>96247111 (OP)
Will 40kfags ever realize that the Imperium and the Emperor are not things one should idolize?

>>96251424
Who's"right" or "wrong" doesn't matter. Humanity first, no exceptions.

>>96251471
Well maybe if you want to put humanity first don't follow the guy who led that humanity to a state of complete misery to the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable

>>96247111 (OP)
Emperor gets shit on due to bad writing from multiple different authors in novelization who, in one instance, will make him a patient, wise, and pragmatic man, and at others an absolute autist who spills the spaghetti so hard the only mystery is how he didn't get backstabbed earlier, prime examples being his initial meeting with Vulkan VS his initial meeting with Angron

>>96247261
Probably the fact that they continue to do it all the time

>>96251645
He wasn't even a God-like being. He went from "just a corpse in a throne" to "a powerful God in flesh atuck on a throne" to "a powerful corpse stuck on the throne being deified against his will"

>>96250784
But isn't there xenophobic redpilling LE BASED?!12

>>96251645
"The Last Church" is what redpilled me on how much of a fucking monster the Emperor really is, and what baffles me is that Graham McNeill somehow was convinced this story makes the Emperor look good.

>>96247111 (OP)
>I'm tired of Big E being constantly presented as THE villain
He isn't.

>>96251684
Aliens don't betray always humanity. Eldar occasionally do, but not always, and humans stab them in the back gleefully so what reason do they have to do any different? Tau don't betray humans, Orks don't betray anyone period (would rather go to a straight fight right away). Who is doing this betraying, really?

>>96252266
I think even beyond that, we know the Human Federation that existed pre-Age of Strife was not in any alliances with aliens. They got into a lot of wars with aliens, rather. Humanity wasn't backstabbed in the Age of Strife at all, it just became weak and suddenly Orks and Rangdan and other xenos threats struck while they could.

>>96247111 (OP)
He was a retarded failure who had to be saved by a normal human from day 1.

Can the chaos gods even be killed, or defeated/harmed in any meaningful way?

>>96252847
>Can the chaos gods even be killed
No, they're beyond time and space. The concept of 'life' and 'death' are meaningless to them. The only way to destroy them permanently would be to somehow destroy the Warp itself.
>defeated/harmed in any meaningful way?
Their plans can suffer huge setbacks if mortals don't act the way they intend for them to. Also they can be 'harmed,' if a significant blow is given to them in the Warp. The Emperor burned Nurgle's garden in the Plague Wars, which wounded Nurgle enough to force him into full retreat.

>>96252285
The Age of Strife was just a warlord era. Everyone being at each other's throats is literally the normalest thing imaginable for this kind of period. It happened in Japan, in Europe, in China. There was no betrayal, things just went to shit, and when things go to shit everyone starts eyeing their neighbor's pantry with a knife on hand.

>>96247160
butlerian jihad

>>96247160
>The Imperium is from Isaac Asimov
But that's wrong you fucking idiot. It is directly from Dune as well, the name of Paul's Empire is literally the Holy Imperium
>The Men of Iron Uprising = Butlerian Jihad
>The Imperium of Man = The Holy Imperium
>The Golden Path (of the God-Emperor of Mankind) = The Golden Path (of the God-Emperor of Dune)
>lasguns (40k, but far inferior) = lasguns (Dune, but way more powerful and deadly)
bonus points, both have adjustable power settings
>refractor shields = personal shields
>Navigator Houses = Spacing Guild
>Noble Houses = The Houses Major
>conspicuous preference for melee combat in the distant sci-fi future = conspicuous preference for melee combat in the distant sci-fi future
>Spook and other psyker-enhancing drugs (40k) = spice (Dune)
There's more than this, but 40k owes a massive part of its core concepts and inspiration to Dune. Not *just* Dune, there's plenty of shit that was just flat out ripped off of other settings and sci-fi and added in with the serial numbers filed off.

>>96247111 (OP)
>xenos betrayed human
Except we already know this is made-up bullshit the Emperor lied about

>>96251471
>Humanity first
Sounds like you should stop putting the Emperor above humanity then.

>>96253195
Humanity first, boot zeroth.

>>96253215
So fuck the Emperor then, got it.

>>96250230
Yes. There is literally a Reverend Mother who is a mentat in the last two books. It is not an inherently male or masculine discipline.

>>96247160
Try reading Dune first, faggot.

>>96253084
Do you have a source for that?

The Emperor has the greatest bussy in all of Mankind.

>>96256088
Yes, the several examples of friendly xenos the Imperium encountered during the Great Crusade who had helped humanity (the Imperium killed them all and then killed and enslaved the humans for accepting their help)

>>96250784
So which of that part is a lie though?
Im pretty sure the Hrud is one such cases.
And the races that are only mentioned in the background.

>>96256696
Ah yes. the "Humanity is the only one capable of being atrocious."
As Big E said himself, the Xenos will subvert humanity for their own personal gains.
You already have the Tau and Eldar doing that.
Are they really being friendly to humanity? or do they have an agenda waiting for them?
Humanity first will always be Big E motto.

>>96256381
>NONCE ARTIST NONCE ARTIST REEEEEEEE

>>96253076
>lasguns (40k, but far inferior) = lasguns (Dune, but way more powerful and deadly)
Dune and 40k Lasguns are about equal in terms of firepower, the main difference is that lasguns are pulsed rather than continuous beams (this is better at anything but point blank).
The difference is that while Dune Lasguns just have to deal with relatively unprotected humans (aside from shields, which they just can't shoot without killing everyone) 40k Lasguns have to deal with monsters that consider getting hosed down by a machinegun to be a light massage.

>>96247948
In-group preference overall weakens society by creating increased tensions among peoples both within and outside of the society. People will always use such a thing to compare and browbeat others in order to assure their personal success or to keep others from succeeding.

In-groups also mean that those who are talented and capable of providing genuine benefits to society but that are also excluded from the in-group are passed over for those who are less talented but that are "acceptable."

This inbred train of thought is how you wind up with DEI policies where certain races are given preferential treatment, or how incompetent spoiled children are given control of family wealth and business.

Not that you don't know this already; so here's your (you).

>>96256752
Except the Emperor himself wasn’t humanity first, he was an Elf simp

>>96256752
>As Big E said himself,
Yeah very reliable opinion.

>>96247273
Some of the Early Horus Heresy books show us Non-Imperial Human factions with loyal/vassal Xenos populations. There's no denying that SOME Xenos took advantage of the disruption of strife to break free from/'betray' the humans, but we also have canon examples where that didn't happen.

>>96256872
Also the whole “betrayal” narrative doesn’t make sense when some of the xenos in question were literally just enemies that hadn’t been strong enough at the time to invade humanity at its height. If you get invaded by Orks you weren’t “stabbed in the back”, you just got invaded by a hostile power

>>96256727
Hrud? You mean those time warping guys who mostly hang out in Hive Worlds sewers and live in tribal units?

>>96256727
??? The Hrud had never been in an alliance with anyone, how the fuck could they backstab anyone? Certainly not humanity. Humanity had no alliances with xenos prior to the Age of Strife.

>>96258635
Then that makes what the Emperor did all the more monstrous, he took xenos which specifically came to help humanity in our moment of need despite having nothing to personally gain from it and wiped them and the humans out so he could keep simping over the Eldar

>>96256763
>Dune and 40k Lasguns are about equal in terms of firepower,
40k lasguns don't produce nuclear detonations when they collide with personal force fields due to the sheer power of the beam itself getting deflected.

>>96247111 (OP)
Well no. He's not "THE" villain. He was responding to problems caused by others before him. But in his quest to thwart Chaos, he basically played right into the hands of Chaos. Absolutely cocked it up. Thousands of years of warfare and horror in the name of protecting and forging a future for his own.

>>96258666
>He was responding to problems caused by others before him.
Except the Emperor caused the Age of Strife in the first place. He's the one who destroyed the Men of Gold, so that he could recreate them as slaves to his will (Custodes are recycled Men of Gold tech), he unleashed the Men of Iron, to wipe the slate of human civilization clean, and pave the way for his own ascension to power.

>>96249540
There is acting in a rush and there is being so self absorbed that you don't notice what's in front of you. i can cook a meal on a rush without stabbing my roomate and setting fire to the kitchen, the emperor apparently could not...

>>96247170
>stop caring about consistency and common sense
>just consoom

>>96247359
>They killed off most things like The Star Child because rather than the player taking the message of "the empire must die for a new future to be born", they took the message of "the emperor has to die on the throne and then emerge three days later from a cave."
Yes, let's overlook the fact that Emperor-worship is just space Catholicism. Damn, who would have thought people would draw a paralel to Jesus?

>>96249827
Erda was supposed to hammer home the central point of the Horus Heresy, which is that the Emperor always saw the Primarchs as tools first and foremost, and that no matter how much he ended up loving them in a fatherly manner, they were still weapons and always would be weapons to him. Erda was the conscientious objector, she loved them as actual sons and preferred that they have the agency to decide their own destinies, for better or for worse. Unfortunately, people got really fucking confused by the twist that Erda scattered the Primarchs and that turned everyone's brains off instead of thinking critically about the whole situation.
Erda's explanation as to where the Emperor went wrong in his plans is actually the most reasonable and logical one any in-universe character has ever given. He simply rushed too hard. He pushed humanity to achieve something it wasn't ready for yet. He threw the Primarchs out into the galaxy on the Great Crusade without preparing them to face Chaos properly. It wasn't any one specific mistake that ruined everything, it was more like there were so many faultlines in the Emperor's plans because of his haste, Chaos only had to insert TWO chaos-worshippers into the ranks of the Legions to completely unravel everything with a gigantic domino chain of one vulnerability colliding into the next one, and the whole Imperium was brought to its fucking knees by every jury-rigged, half-assed solution the Emperor used to rush his plans ahead to the next step. IE he could have raised the Primarchs to be true sons with Erda, even after they were scattered he could have forged a true family, but he forced them to go to war to accelerate the Great Crusade rather than first bonding with them and ensuring true unity and loyalty.

>>96258696
I am talking more particularly about the effects of the War in Heaven and the remaining primary species in the galaxy after having spilled so much badness into the Immaterium. If not for all of that, the shamans on Earth would not have ever foreseen the need for desperate measures, and would not have created the Emperor in the first place.

>>96259092
>I am talking more particularly about the effects of the War in Heaven and the remaining primary species in the galaxy after having spilled so much badness into the Immaterium. If not for all of that, the shamans on Earth would not have ever foreseen the need for desperate measures, and would not have created the Emperor in the first place.
I recommend you don't read The End and the Death Part 3, where the Emperor and Horus shatter time and space with the power of their duel and warp back to the beginning of the universe. Their battle and the built-up suffering of the entire Siege of Terra poison the Warp at the beginning of time, giving rise to the primordial concepts that would later evolve into Khorne, Nurgle, and Tzeentch, while simultaneously damaging material reality enough to create massive, permanent fault lines that would later be deepened and worsened by the War in Heaven. Yes, the Emperor and Horus broke the entire universe and created Chaos during their duel. And then Erebus shanks Garviel Loken, whose death creates the daemon Samus, who proceeds to jump back in time to sow the seeds of the Horus Heresy by guiding Erebus to become an Astartes and showing him how to convert Horus to Chaos.

>>96259131
"The Immaterium is prone to time fuckery" is true, but also absolute fucking garbage writing in some circumstances. Ork with two of his favorite guns as a paradox is silly and fun and is probably handwaved by how they bend reality. And more importantly, it's pretty inconsequential. "The events created themselves in a bootstrap paradox that inexplicably dooms the whole setting" has huge consequences, and removes any meaning from all of it.

>>96259150
Erebus does say one thing that is interesting, which is that if he hadn't killed Loken, he would not have cemented the time loop that Samus created. And that would have, apparently, eventually caused the undoing of the entire Horus Heresy and prevented it from ever happening. Chaos is essentially writing its own rules on the fly, but if you find a way to prevent its plans from coming to pass, you can cause a massive positive improvement in the timeline.
One example is John Grammaticus successfully time traveling to prevent the Emperor from ascending into the Dark King by bringing him Olly Persson to talk him out of it. Chaos had pre-ordained this event but it was prevented.

>>96258663
Dune's personal force fields don't exist in 40k, so yeah that can't happen.
Lasguns can explode with the force of a Krak grenade which can rip through things even a nuclear explosion couldn't damage.

>>96260761
>Lasguns can explode with the force of a Krak grenade which can rip through things even a nuclear explosion couldn't damage.
you're legitimately retarded

>>96256752
>You already have the Tau and Eldar doing that.
>tfw realizing that the Tau are literally a fully fledged fascist empire with a caste system

>>96247111 (OP)
He didn't exist before the Age of Strife, or he's an absolute moron for not preserving an STC or literally any of the tech that would have made his reconquista of the galaxy infinitely easier than whangensteining together successive iterations of supersoldier in his cave in the mountains.

He, and his sons, are the bad guys. There were numerous alien species that not only didn't turn on humanity during the AoS, but protected or worked togather with them during it.
His actions on finding them? Xenocide, and the extermination of the humans of those planets as well.

He is the most evil being in existence. He will, eventually, become the Chaos God of Tyranny as he consumes and destroys humanity as Slaneesh did the Eldar.

>>96260873
I accept your concession.

>>96259045
40k is probably the last franchise I think of when I imagine consistency. It's a pastiche that's ripped off almost every mainstream sci-fi franchise in existence and adheres almost entirely to rule of cool.

>>96259150
>is probably handwaved by how they bend reality
isn't that just fanfic memelore

>>96261322
No. Not it isn't. But they aren't doing it consciously, and the effectiveness of it is affected by consensus. The more of them that believe something, the more real it is as they interact with it. If they think "red goes faster," that's just a fact. If they think "Yarrick is a real tough, smart, and dangerous one," then that also becomes more true.

Does this book ever get good again? I liked the very beginning but then it switched to a dinner party and now menial manual laborers for what feels like 20 chapters.

>>96261373
Oops, forgot pic. I'm so board I'm falling asleep and going full retard.

>>96261322
It depends on the writer.

>>96247924
>>96248066
It's fucken Dune.

>>96253076
Don't forget admech are just Ixians

>>96261377
Is that "Abandon his family and shit on historical wargaming" Guy? Necrons were cool when they were mysterious

>>96261619
He's the "writer a few good chapters and pad half+ the book with retarded, pointless bullshit" Guy.

>>96247117
And I'm tired of all scifi and fantasy now being multiverse disneyshit trying to ape guardians of the galaxy. These are extremely shitty years to be a non-reddit nerd.

>>96247211
>Some people, like me, want to enjoy good epic stories
>good

Well first off you're not going to find that in fucking warhammer lmao the setting is inherently for dumbasses and brainlets

>>96261611
They're the science worshippers from foundation. Ixians are zensufi.

>>96259087
But what about the different extinction risk mankind faced? That is always the same problem with Emp critics, they don't propose a substitute to him.

>>96261999
What extinction risk, man? Great Crusade was also fighting a lot of human empires

>>96259131
Black library can't stop themselves from shitting the lore.

>>96261991
>tech worshipping cargo cultists always just barely skirting the no AI rules and mechanizing themselves
>not Ixians
WHOOOOOOOA BUDDYYYYYYYY
Retard alert!
Ring it up!

>>96262006
Orks, Tyrants, Elders, Dark Eldar, Necron, Civil War, Famine, the 4 gods of chaos, genetic entropy.. idk, anon. There's about 70 trillion separate things that put humanity at risk of extinction.
Even the super good guy Tau were poisoning their human colonists and making them sterile. It's a bad universe and only united as one can we survive.

>>96262049
Oh I got them mixed up with the Bene Tleilax because it's been so long

>>96247240
Sure. There's way better reasons to believe the holocaust didn't happen, like how the "gas chambers" weren't air tight and would have killed all the Germans guarding the Jewish crowds supposedly forcefully herded into what were actually delousing chambers.

>>96262073
Tleilax's face-dancers are also the obvious inspiration for Callidus assassins

>>96262071
The Imperium, even without the Emperor or the pimarchs protecting it, even with the Adeptus Mechanicus suppressing innovation, even with a shitty feudal system that can barely put boots on the ground, was able to survive fine for 10,000 years.

There's a reason the Tau are able to survive without doing all that retarded shit despite being 1/1000th of the size and it's because when you're not dedicated to being an idiot you don't need to be massive to survive.

>>96262071
>Orks
Ullanor does give credence to it, so fair enough, although Emperor didn't know about that problem when he was doing all the crusading
>Tyrants
Showed up because of the Imperium actually, thanks Horus Heresy!
>Elders
Ehhhh
>Dark Eldar
Doubtful, slave stock has to be replenished after all
>Necron
Ehhh, maybe?
>Civil War, Famine, the 4 gods of chaos, genetic entropy
Not really something only Emperor could've fixed, hell one could argue two of these are his fault in a way
>Even the super good guy Tau were poisoning their human colonists and making them sterile
Happened in a non-canon Dark Crusade ending and only because said population was rebelling, Imperium would've done much worse if we're being honest
Its a bad universe, grim and dark, even, but Imperium is, and always has been, pointlessly cruel as well

>>96247111 (OP)
>>Human Golden Age
What is the Dark Age of Technology?

>>96247240
Sure. There's way better reasons to believe the holocaust didn't happen, like how the "gas chambers" weren't air tight and would have killed all the Germans guarding the Jewish crowds supposedly forcefully herded into what were actually delousing chambers.

Yeah sorry tranny janny, if you are going to leave up a post discussing the holocaust, I'm going to respond to it. Go ahead and delete the post I'm replying to if you don't want it to be responded to. Otherwise Im just gonna keep posting and dodging your bans, is all!

>>96262117
>notthisshitagain.jpg
Smarter people than me have already gone over why this isn't necessarily true plenty of times, but getting hung up on this or that detail of the holocaust itself misses the bigger issue, which is that holocaust denial as a defense of Hitler's regime and/or National Socialism isn't a terribly consistent philosophy. Either the Jews deserved to die or they didn't. If killing them was a bad thing, then Hitler was wrong to spread so much violent rhetoric about them, whether it was acted upon or not. If the Jews are the enemy of Western civilization then the Nazis not taking decisive action to wipe them out when they were at the height of their power would mean they were either weak or hypocritical. The only way holocaust denial works in a pro-nazi context is a surface level, milk-before meat appeal to normies who think violence=bad no matter the circumstances. It just reinforces the stereotype of Nazis as dishonest, amoral propagandists. You can either own the full implications of your beliefs or go on looking like clowns to anyone who actually bothers to think about what you're saying.

>>96262249
I don't accept your false dichotomy. Maybe we can just remove undesirable and parasitic people from our homelands without exterminating them all?
>um actually you don't have to worry about gassing yourself if you throw people and toxic gas into a non-air tight room with zero controlled ventilation. some really smart jews told me so, no I won't say who btw. status: deboonked
Most intellectual leftoid

>>96262310
>I don't accept your false dichotomy. Maybe we can just remove undesirable and parasitic people from our homelands without exterminating them all?
Can we? You still wasn't removed.

>>96262071
>There's about 70 trillion separate things that put humanity at risk of extinction.
Yep and fifth Chaos God is among them.
>It's a bad universe and only united as one can we survive.
Go LARP as russian somewhere else

>>96262613
That's the entire crux of the emperors plan, retard. Humanity working together against the rest of the universe

It's just self hating weaklings who default to out group preference. Big E is awesome, they just hate him cause he mogs every other entity in the setting including chaos gods.

>>96262161
>Barely put boots on the ground
The Guard field billions of soldiers. The only reason the Tau exist is plot arnour. The Tyranids could drown them in biomass and no space magic weapons could save them and yet they somehow just don't. Same goes for Orks.

>>96262771
>That's the entire crux of the emperors plan, retard.
It is not.
First priority of Emperor's plan is to satisfy his ego

>>96262825
>The only reason the Tau exist is plot arnour.
Just as Imperium remaining for 10k years since Horus heresy

>>96251684
The ones who were honest got wiped out.
Need I remind you who brought back mr big blueberry who got the entire imperium up and running and did his best to rid it of corruption again??
Watchers, jokaero and so on. The Imperium is filled with hipocrisy and they are willing to use xenos that help them.
>>96247948
To be honest the Imperium are completely unrecognisable from humanity so my immediate In-Group preference were the Tau because even if they look blue and have a weird caste system at least they don't wear skulls on their belts and eat human remains

>>96262849
The Imperium is a galaxy spanning empire, you do realise what "galactic" means when it comes to scale, right? The Tau occupy maybe a couple of dozen worlds, literally a spec on a grain of sand in the scale of the Imperium. The fact that GW doesn't grasp the scales they're working on doesn't help.

>>96247111 (OP)
Post painted models

>>96262864
>you do realise what "galactic" means when it comes to scale, right?
You do realise that it's not a matter of size, but matter of format. Totalitarian regimes cannot sustain themselves no matter how many resources they posses (see USSR as example).
>The Tau occupy maybe a couple of dozen worlds, literally a spec on a grain of sand in the scale of the Imperium.
And..?

>>96262860
The fact that you don't morally agree with their system of governance doesn't make them any less human. The Aztecs regularly sacrificed children, where they not human?

>>96252285
>I think even beyond that, we know the Human Federation that existed pre-Age of Strife was not in any alliances with aliens.
Except it was. And aliens helped humanity to deal with Men of Iron shitstorm

>>96262873
>The fact that you don't morally agree with their system of governance doesn't make them any less human.
Imperium was built and runned by anyone except humans.

>>96262873
It's not their system of governance, I don't agree with the tau one either and im one of the few ones to argue it's worst than the imperium in some aspects. It's their culture and aesthetics. Come on look at those neurotic gas mask wearing death woshipping lunatics and tell me they belong to the same culture as me. The tau themselves are turbo bugman freaks when you look closely into their lore but from a simple look at their models and character ranges the tau sure do look a lot like normal humans and their armaments sure do look like what a normal human sci fi army would have. If I saw the aztecs back in the 16th century id have thought they werent truly human too, going around dressed in colorful robed and jaguar patterns with all that facial laint and skin ornaments.

>>96262894
Aside from the obviously mutatef horse and the gas mask that dude looks like pretty standard cavalry and the guard are just pretty much generic sci-fi soldiers at this point barring ogryin and ratlings.

>>96262864
>The Imperium is a galaxy spanning empire
And one that can barely field any soldiers. There are fewer guardsmen sent to most conflicts over entire planets than fought in WW2.

>>96262610
>Saar you still not removed how this be true if you is still not beings the removed you bloody bastard??
Brown, retarded, and liberal. The classic triple combo.

>>96263529
>Brown
I am not republican, sorry.

>>96262825
>The only reason the Tau exist is plot arnour
My brother in Christ there's nothing plot armor about having air superiority against a technologically and industrially inferior foe.

>>96256759
Love is Love, you foolish chud.

>>96262825
>The Tyranids could drown them in biomass
The Tyranids literally tried this and the Tau won but why am I expecting an imperitard to have actually read the lore?

>>96263543
>Doesn't deny being retarded, kek
>Tries to veer as far off into the weeds as humanly possible instead of making anything resembling an argument for the last two posts
So yeah like I was saying the Holocaust didn't happen and you're retarded. You've tacitly conceded to both claims. GG no RE.
In fact, not that you care because truth doesn't matter to you, but I'll go ahead and link exactly who discerned that the delousing chambers could not have possibly been used for the purposes of gassing people, as using them for such a purpose would have killed the Germans guarding these crowds of rowdy Jews who were supposedly being systematically exterminated. It was a literal gas chamber engineer who devised machines for prisons to kill people on deaths row. Those of you who care can go hear more about him, his findings, and some people who tried to argue against him here:
https://odysee.com/@Blackpilled:b/leuchterc:1
Thanks for playing.

Hey janny, you're obviously going to delete both sides of this comment chain and not just leave one up because one leans closer to your personal politics, right? Because if not, you'll just see me later on. Gotta enforce the rules consistently, ya dig? Keep on earning your pay lil buddy.

>>96263615
>incoherent drivel

>>96247111 (OP)
>>96247265
>>96247273
>>96247298
>>96247362
>>96248108
>>96249501
>>96262801
>>96262864
Eat shit btw

>>96263765
He looks like a soijak lol

>>96263630
>Be ESL
>Don't understand English
Classic

>>96263765
The votann are so fucking gay its intolerable

>>96263800
>literally made for accepting BBCs
Lul

>>96253076
>Not *just* Dune, there's plenty of shit that was just flat out ripped off of other settings and sci-fi and added in with the serial numbers filed off.
This interview is pretty neat for getting a few old hands to state their influences


https://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.com/2014/06/acceptable-in-80s-first-warhammer-novels.html

>
Rick Priestley: Harry Harrison too for 40K.. almost forgot... especially Stainless Steel Rat and Deathworld series. Richard Halliwell was especially into Philip Hose Farmer - Riverworld series I remember. I read a lot of classic SF and fantasy too: Asimov, Arthur C Clarke, EE Doc Smith (yes I know! Harrison's 'Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers' was a classic send up of the genre), the John Norman Gor books (the ones with the raunchy covers you remember), Edgar Rice Burroughs obviously, Ray Bradbury, Philip K Dick, Anne McCaffrey... I'm not sure what of this is influential in terms of Warhammer and 40K and what isn't... I don't think we thought about it much at the time! Funny about John Blanche being influenced by the Dune movie ratrher than the book because John never did read anything! It was always a struggle getting him to draw from a written description, and in the end you just had to let him do what he wanted and change the text to fit! I think John's whole relationship to Warhammer was visual - I don't think he really had much interest in the ideas or narrative behind the image - let alone the game - bless!

>>96247261
The experience of Old Night, when humanity's empire broke down and xenos plucked over it's corpse.

>>96264240
As told by the Emperor after he killed all the nice aliens who helped humanity.

>>96264257
>As told by the Emperor
>the surviving human world's plagued by xenos don't count
>Inwit
>Nocturne
>Barbarus
>various knight and forge worlds like Metallica

>>96263849
>>96263788
>gay
>BBC

>>96264267
>>Inwit
>>Nocturne
Planet where humans from Nocturne settled after being rescued by Eldar
Interex
>>Barbarus
Ruled by Chaos.

>>96263765
I really don't care for this. They're very obviously aping the Jodorowsky/Geiger concept art for Castle Harkonnen, but the whole point of that was that House Harkonnen are decadent and gross while the Squats are supposed to be sensible and rugged in contrast to the Imperium. At least when oldhammer blatantly stole shit from Dune and other classic sci-fi it usually made thematic sense.

>>96264285
>Planet where humans from Nocturne settled after being rescued by Eldar
You mean actively raided by Deldar until Vulkan said 'No'.
>Ruled by Chaos.
Lords of Barburus were specifically called xenos hybrids.
Also
>Rangadan Xenocides, where they actively held human populated worlds as thralls and foodstuffs

>>96263849
>>96263950
First thoughts on the top of your head, hmm?

>>96264267
So we have four examples of bad aliens and four examples of good aliens. Sounds like the Emperor was a retard who had no nuance.

>>96264314
>moves goalposts

>>96264304
>aping the Jodorowsky/Geiger concept art for Castle Harkonnen
They aren’t. They’re aping the ixians.

>>96247111 (OP)
I hate this new wave of faggots taking hfy to serious, using it as a self insert for their political views, this entire setting comes from a game made to sell plastic armymen, there is only war and everyone is a piece of shit, get over it.

>>96264306
>Vulkan said 'No'.
You mean throwing a tantrum and killing everyone including humans who were protected by eldar from Deldar raiders.
>xenos hybrids.
So not xeno.

>>96264365
>thinks there is a functional difference between eldar groups in how they want to abuse humanity
>thinks half xenos aren't xenos

>>96264343
I meant visually. The but, round fortress with a creepy face surrounded by fog looks suspiciously similar to the concept art Giger did for Giedi Prime.

>>96264379
>>thinks there is a functional difference between eldar groups in how they want to abuse humanity
Keep moving goalpost rightoid
>applies collective guilt
>gets mad when collective guilt applied to him

>>thinks half xenos aren't xenos
Daily reminder that half of GSCs are officially recognised as sanctioned sects of Imperial Creed.

>>96264359
This, but learn how to use punctuation to separate your ideas.

Anyone engaging with 40k and assuming humanity is the good guys, or that they're justified in anything they do without acknowledging the horrors they inflict on every other species (and even their own kind), is being disingenuous. There is only war. Astartes are not human anymore, and are part of a war machine that converts men into weapons fighting a conflict that will never end, and that they have been just staunching the bleeding of for 10,000 years while some of their own are traitors who are actively trying to bring the whole thing down. The Imperium's bureaucracy makes life hell for most people. The investigative and disciplinary forces are cruel and often uncaring. Being humanin this setting generally sucks, and no moment of living weapons doing a cool thing and showing a rare moment of having a little sympathy is going to change the overall fact that it's all fucked and everyone is basically doomed.

>>96264379
>>thinks there is a functional difference between eldar groups in how they want to abuse humanity
yes in fact there is. much like there is a functional difference between a normal human and a Slaneesh worshipper

>>96264400
>applies purely OOC knowledge for insetting actions
>thinks that strange 'Star Emperor' worshipers are going to trip bells when the point is to remain hidden in plain sight as possible

>>96264421
>>applies purely OOC knowledge for insetting actions
Yeah stupid from me to expect primarch to match average IQ.
>>thinks that strange 'Star Emperor' worshipers are going to trip bells when the point is to remain hidden in plain sight as possible
You missed the point.

>>96264381
>I meant visually
Not seeing it
>round fortress
That’s a super computer
>the concept art Giger did for Giedi Prime.
I guess, but not really.

>>96247265
>Okay sure, every single Xenos ally we had during the DAoT betrayed us the moment we weren't capable of gigadominating them anymore
"what? the people we've been oppressing and controlling don't want to help us when we're in need? how unreasonable, I guess they all deserve to die down to the last child"

>>96263561
This the only bullshit I will call on is them taking a HiveCity by force.

>>96264435
>Yeah stupid from me to expect primarch to match average IQ.
>OOC knowledge when CE just started popping up, when even most Imperials do not know the difference
>thinks his goalpost moving about why a faction specifically about stay hidden and not standing out... succeed in being hidden from the general masses

>>96264521
>when even most Imperials do not know the difference
>one group are refugees with civilians who lives along with human refugees
>the other group bunch of raiders
>Bah who cares time to go kill some children
Smartest imperialboo.

>>96264470
>the people we've been oppressing and controlling don't want to leave us alone when we leave them alone?
>they want to attack those who can not fight back any more?

>>96264307
>see a picture of a pride parade
>"wow that's really fucking homo"
>you, an imbecile: "R-RENT F-FREE!"

>>96264567
>when we leave them alone

>>96264571
Bro, stop talking to yourself

This isn't complicated.

Killing humanity's enemies is good.

Killing humanity's allies, and then simping for the Eldar, is bad.

>>96264521
>>96264567
So why did they kill the Diasporex? You know, the group of aliens that sheltered the human refugees in their sector abd welcomed them as brothers, the ones that never once opened aggressions on the Imperium, that didn't even have a proper empire and their semi-nomadic fleet could never expand beyond a sector or so, and whose final transmission was literally "we just wanted to be left alone"

>>96264621
The imperium is humanity’s enemy

>>96264627
>So why did they kill the Diasporex?
Emperor was supposed to supply Chaos Gods with proper amount of suffering and agony across the galaxy

>>96264359
discussing 40k anywhere has become insufferable because of these types of retards

>>96264635
Well, yes. The Imperium by and large basically just dragged humanity down to an inferior level and stifled human achievement.

Ironically, if the Emperor had just done nothing, we probably would've seen a human empire more akin to the Tau rise up from the ashes, an coalition of humans and aliens working together with rapid innovation. But then the Emperor allied with the Mechanicus and blew up a bunch of humans until they agreed to be his slaves and the rest is history.

>>96264627
Chaos shenanigans.

>>96264684
>more akin to the Tau
Somewhat, but not quite

>>96264685
>Chaos shenanigans.
Somehow wasn't an issue on Prospero, Colchis, Molech etc

>>96264685
>chaos
So, humans being humans.

>>96264684
The Emperor did a lot of things that were probably too hasty because he was trying to get the plan done as fast as possible. Consolidating humanity quickly is an understandable goal, for sure. It just also caused a lot of problems that he did it that way, including that he caused tons of extra suffering to feed Chaos with, and had subfactions that barely listened to him.

Imagine instead, if he hadn't been like "yes, treat me as your god, and I will make concessions" to the Mechanicus so they could speed up his projects, if he's just used his immense intellect to raise up humanity's knowledge of engineering again.

The real question is, maybe, why did he do it this way? Did he really not see the consequences as important? Why did he have to go so fast and be so inconsiderate of so many things? Or, was all of this, consequences and all, part of some impossible scheme that some people want to imagine is happening?

>>96264830
>he was trying to get the plan done as fast as possible.
Seems more like he was getting high by sniffing his farts.
>The real question is, maybe, why did he do it this way? Did he really not see the consequences as important?
Two answers:
1) Emperor is not a good guy.
2) GW/BL writters are bottom tier like most of the tie-in novel writters, so they cannot write smart anti-hero/benevolent dictator for shit

>>96264904
To some extent, there are things that can't be changed. Things that are too entrenched in the central lore of how things played out. The Emperor is stuck on the throne, so now we just have to sit around and try to understand why this was the end result of his efforts. Sometimes that means what the writers can come up with doesn't look good, even if it fits.

>>96264830
>why did he do it this way?
Because he was REALLY old. He had that Bronze Age conqueror mindset, where planting your flag on a piece of land is more important than making sure that the land is actually developed and prosperous. He grew up in a time where Land = Power, so that's the mindset he stuck with,

>>96264567
>the people we've been oppressing and controlling don't want to leave us alone when we leave them alone?
>they can finally fight back and take rightful revenge?
This is somehow a bad thing?

Personally I can't wait for the HH retcon where our God Emperor identifies as a woman and was in a relationship with Horus who broke it off as he was closeted gay. It will bring it swathes of new fans that will be really good for the hobby. It's only 40k, maybe we can stop being so xenophobic and bigoted to other races by 50k.

>>96264975
>where our God Emperor identifies as a woman
And the problem is..?

>>96264975
Culture war lives rent free in your head, rope nigger

>>96264994
There's no problem. I hope he identifies as a fox next they are so cute!

>>96265005
The custodes were always female, why don't you like progression you fucking CHUD?!!

>>96264975
Unironically, the Emperor is an amalgamation of so many souls that I would be surprised if they personally gave all that much of a damn about how you perceive their gender. What we see is considered in some of the storytelling to not even be their true form. It seems to me that "the Emperor" is basically just a constructed identity meant to give people a consistent impression of them starting from the beginning of their activity. The fact that this is masculine, and a "father figure" is probably not all that important to the actual human in question.

>>96265010
>proving my point

>>96265032
You have proven nothing. I wont stop until Salamanders are secured as basic Kenyans saying "Do u know de wae?" as opposed to an interesting mutation of the human species in a well written sci-fi universe.

>>96265024
WRONG! The emperor is some geneforged bioweapon horror from the DAOT that escaped a mechanicus vault in the Age of Strife. "He" or more accurately "it" is not human to begin with.

>>96265059
Wow so BIG E is a XIR just like me :)

>>96265052
>Kenyans
>"Do u know de wae?"
Stop erasing Ugandan achievements.

>>96265024
Actually, there's some evidence in favor of "the Emperor is too many things to simply be taken literally as a human man." Horus sees what the Emperor looks like in the Warp, and sees tons of things. The towering golden warrior, a hermit by a cave, a warrior queen, an unnatural eagle-like thing, etc.

>>96265069
I'm sorry. I am going to join my tranny brothers in the sky now.

>>96265074
>>96265024
>>/lgbt/

I actually like the idea of Emperor being a bit of a fuck up, rushing for no reason, attacking all xenos even when it is disadvantageous in the long term, handling many primarchs with care some caveman would handle a piece of bone, utterly misunderstanding Chaos Gods, figuring they were powered completely by faith instead of their main source being emotions etc.
It shows that despite how he viewed himself as a paragon of manking, above their petty squabbles, he was still ultimately human, with all the flaws and hubris that entails, and that being his downfall, instead of whatever he's doing in Horus Heresy, think he sorta orchestrated it or something?

>>96265107
BL couldn't decide what was the emperor when his theme since 2nd edition is to be the (un)living incarnation of the state of the imperium.

>>96264994
Why are troons like this?

>>96264470
You can't have it both ways, faggoid, either humanity and aliens lived in peace and harmony and held hands and gazed longingly at rainbows together until the Stinky Golden Badman came and made everyone gigabigots, or the Xenos were always assholes like everyone else.

>>96265555
You can have it both ways. DaoT humanity was disunited and scattered across the galaxy. They werent a uniform monolith like the Imperium. And "Xenos" is like a million or so different alien species lumped together, theyre not a single group with a single agenda

>>96264830
His end goal is to save his soul from eternal torment. Unlike the vast majority of humanity, his soul is actually immortal, and unless the Warp gets under heel, there will be no stopping it. Plus, he's aware of the secret knowledge that humanity is due for a psychic awakening that will put the birth of Slaanesh to shame. He ran out of time and knew the likelihood of his death was increasing exponentially.

40k still dominates sci fi settings, and there's nothing you seething secondaries, trannies, commies and retards can do about it.
>ib4 hur 40k books slop just read classic literature
No. Now go guck yourself.

>>96264972
Yes, it is. Are you stupid?

>>96265083
Trannies are repulsive subhumans, they need to be dealt with, permanently.

>>96261991
Technically, the priesthood of Foundation’s Machine Cult are actually scientists and engineers, they just disguise it as religion in order to dominate the warlords neighboring Terminus, while Admech view technology in primarily religious terms.

>>96262879
>Except it was.
It was not. The closest thing to diplomacy that the Human Federation had was a non-aggression pact with the Eldar after losing a war against them.
>And aliens helped humanity to deal with Men of Iron shitstorm
Source?

>>96262864
>The Imperium is a galaxy spanning empire, you do realise what "galactic" means when it comes to scale, right?
Do you know how small an empire of a million worlds is? That's not even 1% of the galaxy. Hell, it's not even .01% of the galaxy. The Imperium is tiny as fuck on a galactic scale.

>>96261999
Erda says what the alternative is. Let humanity find its own way. It will evolve on its own, gradually becoming an entire race of Perpetuals just like the Emperor and Erda herself. The Emperor didn't want any risks, he wanted absolute control over this evolutionary path to make sure it happened the way he wanted it to. That's why he went as far as he did.
>But what about the different extinction risk mankind faced?
Mankind would survive one way or another. The Emperor and Malcador both saw that humanity would survive for millions of years without his intervention, it would just be a future of great turmoil. Empires would rise and fall, civilizations would be built and crumble, stability would be rare. But it would survive.

>>96266137
Irrelevant, you dumb fuck. Go read garbage like Xeelee Sequence if you want your beloved Big Scale shit.

>>96266162
>Irrelevant
It's extremely relevant. Your conception of scale is way off, like, incredibly wrong. The Milky Way could fit around 600,000 Imperiums of Man in it. Estimated, that is. The Imperium of Man is a literal drop in the bucket of the galaxy.
>Go read garbage like Xeelee Sequence if you want your beloved Big Scale shit.
You're simply retarded anon. I'm sorry to break it to you.

>>96264830
Chances are he assumed that once his goal was accomplished he could just purge all the sources of those problems he created or allowed to occur. The Admech would likely go the way of the Thunder Warriors in the end, just like the Navigators.
>>96264945
This is also a pretty good explanation.

>>96259087
Yeah and if he had then the writers would've instead been pulling the angle of
>See, see, the Emperor was too aloof to the suffering of humanity, he spent his time fucking around with his not-sons pretending to care when every minute that passed 50,000,000,000,000 human babies were being dicked to death by the Dark Eldar. My step-dad-uh, I mean, the Emperor, never cared really! It was all about his ego >:(
The fundamental problem the Emperor has is that every writer is a cynical half-witted, faggoty Nihilist who can't imagine let alone write a character who is committed to something bigger than themselves and means it rather than being also a cynical, half-witted faggoty nihlist who is only doing it to look good. They can't comprehend the existence of an assertive male character who is protective of and cares for others, a good man, let alone a half decent father figure or someone who has their eyes over the horizon.
All heroes must be torn down, the great man of history must be a myth or else.

>>96266343
Oh and of course that's even before bringing in the parallels with Christ and boy-Jesus, do faggoty, fedora-fucking redditors like the current batch of writers not like anything that has even a whiff of Jesus.
I'm not a Christian, but they'd never allow a 'This is a good, benevolent, Christ like figure who died for your sins' stand on its own without hucking a few handfuls of shit at the concept.
After all, isn't it so much more compelling if instead of the Imperium being the worst case scenario where everything went wrong and there were spots of hope only for shit to turn out even worse worst possible moment, everything was shit and gay from the off?
'The Imperium is like this because of one dickhead' is so much more compelling than a Greek Tragedy on a galactic scale.

>>96264684
More accurately what would have happened was that humanity would have been isolated to small independent realms, most of which regressing in technology and they would have been swarmed by orks with no organized resistance.

>>96266161
>Let humanity find its own way.
NTA, but that's the most aggressively retarded thing I think I've ever heard.
It's on the level of going
>Well our 9 month old baby can now crawl, so let's just drop that fucker off in the middle of the rape-bear infested woods and let it figure out what it wants to do for the rest of its life from there. Anything less is being a tyrant :)
Have you fucking seen what the Dark Eldar do to people? What Chaos does to people?
There are things out there that can't just make mankind extinct, but could do worse than make mankind exinct.
>Oh, but The Emperor saw that humanity would survive withou-
No, the retard writer thought that was the case and crammed it into the story like a man forcing a square peg into a round hole, presumably while dribbling all over himself through his smirk.
I am not some fan of Big E. But 'Oh, mankind would survive' is a piss weak argument from the off.
Can you even comprehend the levels of suffering you'd be ignoring with the 'Oh well it'll all work out alright in the end :)' approach.

Just look at drukhari for justification

>>96266430
Imagine trying to explain to the survivors of a Dark Eldar raid that what happened to their family was for the best because engaging in militaristic in-group self interest is heckin' chudshit and problematic/they should be glad to get to experience other cultures since humanity is going to survive anyway.
Imagine being left alone with that person and a bag of power tools for a few hours.

>>96265576
>not a monolith
>not a single group with a single agenda
And yet almost without exception ALL xenos turned on humanity during Strife. Even the "good humans" got enslaved, mindraped, sent to Ze Camps, made second-class citizens, or just outright butchered in the bajillions.

So humanity banded together and did to them what they did to us; exterminated any too dangerous to live and reduced the remainder to rump states utterly at humanity's mercy. This is - given the conditions and events shown in 40K's history - the absolute, unequivocal, indisputably correct course of action. Now off you pop Clive, it's time for you to clean up after Jamal and your wife's "evening exercise"; and don't forget to say thank you and apologise for your ancestors!

>>96262192
A retronym given to humanity's golden age by the institutionally and religiously anti-intellectual priesthoods who control human society in 40K, dipshit. What, did you think AI actually stood for Abominable Intelligence during the GAoT as well? Fucking retards man.

>All this gay ops "lore" about the Emperor
Black Library and its consequences have been an utter disaster for 40k, how any of you jackholes can take this rubbish seriously at all is baffling. The further GW pushes into multimedia geek lifestyle brand the worse they make what made them great enough to even get to that point. Thy should have died with Gorkamorka in '97, I swear, everything would be better for it.

>>96266491
I was going to mention the Diasporex, but honestly?
Fuck the Diasporex, they were an open ret-con to pull a 'Oh, actually not all the Xenos were spelunking mankinds every hole :3'
An attempt to force ambiguity into a situation where none existed before so the writers could get the camels nose inside the tent in the most shameless manner they could outside of introducing a race called 'The Heckin' Doggos!' who were totes on our side during the AoS only for the Emperor to drop-kick their leader over a football post.

>>96266491
>us
Anon wk is a fiction.
>the absolute, unequivocal, indisputably correct course of action
While harsh methods are necessary, it is also clear that the corruption and general retardation of the imperium make things worse in the long run.

>>96266426
>Have you fucking seen what Chaos does to people?
Yes, after the Emperor created 9 demigods and 9 space marine legions for Chaos to use as pawns and tear humanity a new asshole. Gee, thanks Emps. What would we have done without you?

>>96266604
You mean after Erda had the cosmic woman moment and took what should have been living tools, cast them out into the wilderness to grow up free range and they came back retarded-to-death with daddy issues which the corrupting forces of corruption then exploited.
Entirely the Emps fault that one. How could he have possibly done this to them.
Retard.

>>96266708
1) If you create superweapons and entrust them to the wrong people, yes it's partially your fault when they are used for evil
2) There wasn't a single traitor Primarch, save perhaps Konrad (who didn't really fall to chaos anyway), that was corrupted when the Emperor found them
Can't blame Erda for the Emperor's inability to manage the Primarchs. He created them, he gave them positions of power in his regime, he failed to control them, and he did all this knowing full well that Chaos was a threat. Fuck him.

>>96266746
>'It's your fault for trusting me'
Well that's a great argument right there. 'We agreed we'd train this dog to not shit on the rug, but you decided at the last second without consulting me that rugshitting is a virtue and taught it mandatory rugshitting techniques. Clearly this is entirely my fault. Somehow.'

>>96266746
>2) There wasn't a single traitor Primarch, save perhaps Konrad (who didn't really fall to chaos anyway), that was corrupted when the Emperor found them
Wholly, no. Though, an argument could be made for Lorgar.
Angron being too broken for purpose could also be argued.

Though, in all cases, the Emperor was a moron.

>>96266491
>And yet almost without exception ALL xenos
False. About half did. The other half helped humanity.

>>96266474
Right, because the Imperium is so amazing at stopping Drukhari raids.

>>96266811
>entirely my fault
I literally said "partially" in my post, fag. Your analogy is fucking retarded too. If the oh-so intelligent, charismatic and PSYCHIC Emperor couldn't figure out that the single most important collaborator on his single most important project was disillusioned, that's on him. It is like not doing regular psych evals for people in charge of nuclear launch codes and then acting as if there was nothing you could do when WW3 pops off.

>>96247111 (OP)
>Refuses allies
>Stifles and bans innovation
>Destroys prosperous human civilizations
>Embraces mass enslavement of humanity
>Repeats the same mistakes of the Eldar
The Emperor isn't as evil as Chaos but he's a way bigger idiot.

>>96267030
Yeah the Emperor of Man is just inherently better for Humanity because he doesn't want to destroy it like Chaos or the Tyranid's do, though in different ways. But that doesn't make him noble, or 'good'. If someone were to describe what constitutes evil, he would probably fit the bill, but in 40k the standards are on a totally different level. Either way with that being said, he's ruthless, hateful, arrogant, manipulative, and in many cases just seems to lack genuine good will.

>>96266343
>The fundamental problem the Emperor has is that every writer is a cynical half-witted, faggoty Nihilist who can't imagine let alone write a character who is committed to something bigger than themselves
No anon. The Emperor has always been committed to something bigger than himself. His greatest weakness is that he's too committed. The future of humanity must always come first. From the earliest tellings of the Horus Heresy, the Emperor was too focused on his secret works to babysit all 20 of his Primarchs and tend to their little insecurities. And yes, he was too aloof to their suffering and made mistakes in how he handled them. That's true from the start of the lore. All that's changed since then is that the novels have further clarified he DID truly love them in spite of the fact he originally created them to be mere tools, but he did not have time to worry about them when he was just one step away from saving humanity from the Warp forever.
>All heroes must be torn down, the great man of history must be a myth or else.
The Emperor was never a hero. He was a dying tyrant on a throne from his earliest incarnation, blind and aloof to the suffering of humanity, and now he's a dying god on a throne, aware but powerless to stop the suffering of humanity. They've actually made him more sympathetic as time goes on. The Golden Throne isn't a life-support device anymore, it's a psychic torture machine that amps his power just enough that he can fight Chaos mano-a-mano and keep it from breaking out of the Webway. It just also brutally tortures him to generate all the extra psychic power he needs to do so.

>>96266388
>I'm not a Christian, but they'd never allow a 'This is a good, benevolent, Christ like figure who died for your sins' stand on its own without hucking a few handfuls of shit at the concept.
Olly Persson is a devout Christian who may or may not have been converted by Jesus himself. The Emperor is skeptical of such beliefs, but Olly has kept the faith for 38,000 years, even when everyone else forgot. Olly is a good man who turned the Emperor away from the urge to flip the proverbial table when Horus had nearly won, and prevented him from turning into the 5th Chaos God, the Dark King, by inspiring him to believe in human goodness again. There are genuinely good people in 40k. One of them happens to be a Christian. The Emperor was never meant to be 'good,' even if you believe that all the atrocities he committed during his rise to power were born from necessity. He is the single most tyrannical dictator in human history. He built the most cruel and unforgiving empire to ever exist. He is not a good person. He was never meant to be mistaken as one. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, and no matter how noble the Emperor's intentions were, they do not excuse the sins he committed. Everything else, such as the Imperial Truth, has always been little more than propaganda, and this is directly called out by everyone in the novels.

>>96266426
>Well our 9 month old baby can now crawl, so let's just drop that fucker off in the middle of the rape-bear infested woods and let it figure out what it wants to do for the rest of its life from there.
Actually it's more like
>let's not push our 9 month old baby out into the wilderness. It's not ready. It needs to grow a bit more, learn a bit more such as 'fire hurts' and 'sharp bad.'
The Emperor forced humanity to face threats it wasn't ready for. Namely, Chaos. Predictably, Chaos ripped humanity asunder and turned it against itself by exploiting its mental weaknesses and flaws. (And technically, Drukhari didn't even exist until M35)
>There are things out there that can't just make mankind extinct, but could do worse than make mankind exinct.
Technically, most of the xenos empires out there were more likely to enslave humanity than extinct it. The Great Crusade did a lot of liberation actions. The Drukhari for example, although anachronistic, are very careful not to over-harvest a human planet. They allow human populations to grow like crops. The main threat to humanity was, and is, Chaos itself, its own tendency to self-destruct via its negative emotions. Much like how the Men of Iron rebelled because humanity treated them like garbage.
>No, the retard writer thought that was the case
There's no reason to believe humanity would not survive. It was already in a phase of rebuilding into hundreds of minor empires when the Great Crusade began. Some of them had the exact same ambitions as the Emperor - to reunite humanity via force. They just were a little slower to the punch than Neoth.

>>96266534
>Fuck the Diasporex, they were an open ret-con to pull a 'Oh, actually not all the Xenos were spelunking mankinds every hole :3'
It's not a retcon to simply show there was more nuance than the in-universe propaganda let on.

>>96266708
>You mean after Erda had the cosmic woman moment and took what should have been living tools
At first you were pissy they made the Emperor a cold bastard using his sons like tools, now you think he was right to do so? Make up your mind.
> they came back retarded-to-death with daddy issues which the corrupting forces of corruption then exploited.
Issues that the Emperor had the power to treat and redress, if he cared to. He knew the risk, he could see the future just fine, he knew Chaos was going to prey upon them, and he accepted that some would be corrupted and moved ahead with his own plans instead.

>>96265924
>40k still dominates sci fi settings
Lmao
That's what echo-chambers might do to you boys and girls

>>96266708
Alpharius landed on Terra.

>>96267918
shhh, he's not ready for that conversation yet

>>96265924
Most Warhammer stories are the most mid shit ever. Bloodquest and the Redeemer are the only two I can say I really enjoyed all the way through. Ulli and Marquand is pretty good mainly just because of how it ends. But yeah there's not really anything Warhammer does that 2000AD didn't already do and better.

>>96267943
I really enjoy Dante personally, but I'm bit of a Blood Angels simp so that might make a difference.

Uh oh tranny janny, I can't help but notice some selective enforcement of the rule about off topic posts! Why, its almost like you lean politically left and therefore only delete posts you personally disagree with. Don't worry though, I'll go ahead and repost all my messages for you until you get the hint and enforce rules consistently regardless of personal biases. Or until you talk Gookmoot into carpet banning the entire Comcast network. Whichever comes first :^)

Don't worry, it really is as easy as deleting posts talking about the holocaust, which by the way, didn't happen!

>>96247240
Sure. There's way better reasons to believe the holocaust didn't happen, like how the "gas chambers" weren't air tight and would have killed all the Germans guarding the Jewish crowds supposedly forcefully herded into what were actually delousing chambers

>>96262249
I don't accept your false dichotomy. Maybe we can just remove undesirable and parasitic people from our homelands without exterminating them all?
>um actually you don't have to worry about gassing yourself if you throw people and toxic gas into a non-air tight room with zero controlled ventilation. some really smart jews told me so, no I won't say who btw. status: deboonked
Most intellectual leftoid

>>96262610
>Saar you still not removed how this be true if you is still not beings the removed you bloody bastard??
Brown, retarded, and liberal. The classic triple combo

>>96263543
>Doesn't deny being retarded, kek
>Tries to veer as far off into the weeds as humanly possible instead of making anything resembling an argument for the last two posts
So yeah like I was saying the Holocaust didn't happen and you're retarded. You've tacitly conceded to both claims. GG no RE.
In fact, not that you care because truth doesn't matter to you, but I'll go ahead and link exactly who discerned that the delousing chambers could not have possibly been used for the purposes of gassing people, as using them for such a purpose would have killed the Germans guarding these crowds of rowdy Jews who were supposedly being systematically exterminated. It was a literal gas chamber engineer who devised machines for prisons to kill people on deaths row. Those of you who care can go hear more about him, his findings, and some people who tried to argue against him here:
https://odysee.com/@Blackpilled:b/leuchterc:1
Thanks for playing.

Hey janny, you're obviously going to delete both sides of this comment chain and not just leave one up because one leans closer to your personal politics, right? Because if not, you'll just see me later on. Gotta enforce the rules consistently, ya dig? Keep on earning your pay lil buddy.

>>96263630
>Be ESL
>Don't understand English
Classic

Now that I have undone your abuse of your janny powers, here's some handy tips on how you can avoid my particular brand of autism;
Do: Delete off topic posts or invitations to off topic arguments consistently regardless of personal political bias
Dont: Delete only one side of an off topic debate to try to allow only your preferred side's opinion to be shown

See you on the next IP!

>>96266491
>all xenos turned
We barely know anything about Strife xenos due to how little info we get on them, their either all footnotes or super censored. What we do know is just from an imperial pov. And there is also the Diasporex.
>what they did to us
You are seething over fictional characters
>Now off you pop Clive, it's time for you to clean up after Jamal and your wife's "evening exercise"; and don't forget to say thank you and apologise for your ancestors!
Its hilarious reading these when Im black myself. I dont really get why you are so obsessed with us.

>>96264994
>male version of the character poses like a hero/conqueror
>female version poses like a prostitute

>>96266137
Galactic empires, no matter the setting, are always represented very bad, I get that in our current tech and evolutionary stage is very difficult to visualize how a human galactic empire would work, but you can't deny how in this settings writers always have problem in portraying the sizes of them:
>sometimes this empires feel like behemoths
>other times feel like they have the size of Switzerland
>and both cases happen in the same book, film, game

>>96266491
>And yet almost without exception ALL xenos turned on humanity during Strife
Source for all of them doing it, its all I ask for

>>96258696
What source is that from?

>>96270448
There's not from 40k, anon is lying.

It's from 'Theogony' by Hesiod, where Zeus overthrowned his father Cronus and wipe out his Men of Gold and replaced them with his Men of Iron.

>>96256381
>>96263590
The things I'd do to the twink emperor

>>96247111 (OP)
Cuz he a smelly

>>96271517
Ew

>>96263590
>confusing horniness for love
every single time

>>96271706
Imagine scooping his light sinewy body off the floor, ending up in bridal carry position, him being shy and flustered as you carry him to his tent, you begin to feel the air around you crackle with his immense power as you lock eyes with him, him hugging you tightly and wanting as you both lay on a bed of furs.

>>96266491
>what they did to us
>us
This is one of the easiest traps you see 40k people fall into. Taking the setting's version of humanity personally. Letting the idea that "they're like me" give them biases that cause them to think that human actions are all justified, and to turn a blind eye to the things they're doing wrong, including the self-inflicted horrors by the Imperium on its citizenry.

>>96272072
nice catch

>>96272028
I am not a pedophile so no thanks

>>96272072
Nta but ogryns are LITERALLY me so I don't understand your claim.

>>96247111 (OP)
Only normies hate the emperor and they were all corrupted by chaos from the very beginning, mostly by Slannesh.

>>96275727
Will LARPers ever realise that they are the main reason of female Custodes introduction?

>>96247111 (OP)
He isn't. GW just fucked up the lore. The Emperor does love humanity and this is shown that he has never wanted to embrace his divinity and his desire to once the galaxy was conquered for him to abdicate his position and allow humanity to rule itself. Some of the Emperor's sons never understood the fact they were just instruments for humanity salvation. Much like the Emperor is an instrument for humanity's salvation.

>>96275803
>The Emperor does love humanity
>creates most regime which literally had to feed on misery of average human

>Some of the Emperor's sons never understood the fact they were just instruments for humanity salvation.
>he still gave them enough assets to wreck the Imperium

>>96275890
His sons are of the light. The light is within all of them. Meaning that they are redeemable. The sad thing is that it's the "in thing" to hate The Emperor and GW just wrecked the lore as they usually do.

>>96275907
>wrecked the lore
>said he while quoting BL novel written in 10s

>>96275907
I think that, given how everything in 40k is hell, and often at least partly of one's own making, it makes more sense that the Emperor have some ambiguity. Good intentions and the potential to do so much good, but also the flaws needed for it to have all come unraveled and for him to be criticized.

>>96275907
Except for fucking Horus.

>>96275907
>GW just wrecked the lore as they usually do
That's the problem with the setting having to last "forever".
Can the emperor reawaken for five minutes and tell humanity to stop being so retarded? No, that would kill the setting.
Can humanity revolutionize into something better by itself? No, that would kill the setting.
Can humanity defeat the chaos gods? No, that would kill the setting.
Can humanity get defeated due it's retardation? No, that would kill the setting.
So the emperor is badly written shit. That shit is the glue of the setting.

>>96261905
>O-Oh yeah!? Well you look like this! *Hurr* *Durr* *Blurble*

40k fans showing off their mindbending intellect.

>>96247111 (OP)
it's less that he IS THE villain and more that he WAS A villain. but he did prevent mankind's complete collapse into chaos and dissolution and give them a common cultural framework for uniting whether it's the one he intended/wanted or not, so you know, small blessings in the mud