Thread 96253202

The /btg/ is dead! Long live the /btg/!

Coyote Edition

Last Thread: >>96232435

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>BattleTech Introductory Guide & PDFs
https://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=400

>Overview of the Major Factions
https://bg.battletech.com/universe/great-houses
https://bg.battletech.com/universe/the-clans
https://bg.battletech.com/universe/other-powers

>Rookie Guides
https://tinyurl com/ydtr589e
https://pastebin.com/HZvGKuGx
https://files.catbox.moe/l1gjfi.jpg

>Sarna.net – BattleTech Wiki
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page

>Force Building & Unit Faction Guides
MUL
http://masterunitlist.info
Xotl's Random Assignment Tables
https://tinyurl com/fejwk5f2

>Unit Design Software
Solaris Skunkwerks
https://www.solarisskunkwerks.com
MegaMek Lab
https://megamek.org

>MegaMek – PC version of BT with bots & multiplayer!
https://megamek.org

>How to Play Against the Bot?
https://www.mediafire.com/file/l5mqjydrgndnndu/Against_the_Bot_v4.pdf
(Included in latest MekHQ docs)
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56065.0
https://pastebin.com/pE2f7TR5
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/rkg2sl5ybr24k/Battletech_Portrait_Pack
https://www.mediafire.com/file/a3x576yflof0ca1/MekHQ_Fluff_art.rar

>Flechs Software – Digital record sheets & more!
https://flechs.net

>Instant Action – Play custom scenarios for tabletop!
https://victorypointproductions.neocities.org/instantaction

>PDF Trove
rebrand ly/CranstonSnord
rebrand ly/SnordsStoryTime
rebrand ly/CranstonLogFiles
rebrand ly/CranstonSnordDropBox

>Older Troves (2013-2020)
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/sdckg6j645z4j/Battletech
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/cj0tjpn9b3n1i/Battletech
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/tw2m414o1j9uj/Battletech_Archives
https://tinyurl com/2p8p7cew
rebrand ly/BTmags
rebrand ly/BTdrop

>BattleTech IRC
#battletech on irc.rizon.net

>/btg/’s own image board!
https://bgb.booru.org/index.php

>More /btg/ tidbits! (2020-05-17)
https://pastebin.com/uFwvhVhE

Lol, I was just too late to put a link in the old thread.

Would you put Battletech into the same category as a setting like The Xeelee Universe or The Culture series (ie a surprisingly high-power setting but one that still adheres to a ground understanding of physics).

>>96253210
Ehhhh, maybe. But only barely. Some of the star league megaprojects are the sort of thing only an absurdly high powered sci-fi faction might do, like terraforming Venus or making that artificial sun inside a hollow asteroid, but every one of them was unique, eyewateringly expensive, and basically impossible to replicate ever again once the star league collapses. Most people in the setting never directly interact with the truly high powered stuff, only the lucky few indirectly benefit without really interacting with it at all.

>>96253210
The problem is that while the lore pretends to adhere to physics more-or-less, the game itself very much does not, and the devs (rightly) put the game above lore, so the end result pays lip service to physics, but doesn't really care about it.

>>96253228
Maybe, but the battlemechs themselves are a weapon matched by few others in fiction. Sure, they'd probably still lose to a Xeelee Nightfighter, but they'll easily dominate the Warhammer 40k setting.

>>96253250

Comparing a BattleMech to Warhammer 40k doesn't make any sense because there's no way to establish equivalency. How many points of damage does a Tau railgun do? What's the Strength value of a PPC?

>>96253250
Can we save the bait for the end of the thread please?

How much do BT's military-industrial complexes hold sway over the governments and other affairs? Any conspiracies?

>>96253311
None really. Shadow governments are for democracies, Battletech is mostly monarchies.

>>96253311
None really. It's just not that sort of setting.

I think that the closest we get is that the big industries tend to be owned by nobles, who are themselves sometimes influential. For example, the Dukes of Hesperus draw much of their power from being in charge of Defiance, but they control the company, not the other way around. They might sometimes try to advance Defiance's interests, but it's still them doing it, not some shadowy cabal.

How much of racial discrimination is in the Inner Sphere? I mean I heard about an awesome Afro Samurai but also heard Justin? and other Asian-looking people discriminated in FedSun or something.

>>96253346
the fedsusns disliking asians was one of those things that only really showed up in the earliest material and just kind of got retroactively dropped after like 89 or so.
but overall battletech as a setting doesn't really have that sort of thing

>>96253346
There isn't any. The Draconic Combine has some cultural and religion discrimination, and the Capellan Combine impose their culture, but racism doesn't exist anymore.

>>96253346
In theory Justin's problem wasn't that he was asian, it was that he was half capellan.

According to the source books modern style racial discrimination is rare, and every state has people of every race. In practice there are a lot of hack writers who are too unimaginative to portray that dynamic properly.

>>96253346
there is one racist planet, New Capetown (it was the 80s), and that's it

>>96253346
Basically this. >>96253363

The general attitude is that people in BattleTech have much more important things to hate you for than your race.

The lore's also a little inconsistent on race in general. For example, early lore suggested that a majority of the Draconis Combine was ethnic Japanese (or at least ethnic Asian), with Dieron and Rasalhague regions standing out for being white, but most lore since suggests that the Combine is as Japanese as the Commonwealth is German (i.e. only "culturally"). Looking at planet names also suggests large non-Japanese populations.

One notable indication that Lyran society, at least, thinks that racism is weird and not okay is the write-up for New Capetown, which basically says "This planet was colonized by racists, and people disliked them enough that their economy struggled, and eventually the Archon came in and replaced the local leadership". Also fun is that the later Handbook: House Steiner says that the New Capetowners were in part able to get rid of their racisms by refocusing their hatred on Clanners instead.

>>96253311
The MICs are part of the feudal structure. Some of them are planetary governments (such as Irian, who control a whole planet), others are basically government departments (such as LAW) with a thin private sticker over the top. Generally speaking they act as the government mandates them to act and receive a lot of leeway and carveouts in return. You could expect to see CEOs at the same gatherings as Dukes and Barons. Sometimes they're the same people.

Are there adventure modules for Solaris?

>>96253415
>ew Capetowners were in part able to get rid of their racisms by refocusing their hatred on Clanners instead.
It is good and righteous to hate the clanner.

>>96253415
Yeah, hating people for the color of their skin is passe in the stompy future of Battletech. We hate them because of centuries old blood feuds between ruling houses or because they are weird furries or space wizards and THEY MADE ONE BIG MISTAKE: THEY ATTACKED MY HOME PLANET.

>>96253606
Oh fuck off.
If racial hate didn't exist in battletech then the races we know today would not exist as they'd have mixed off.
But one can readily observe that battletech is populated exclusively by the ethnicities of our modern world exactly as they are now.
For that situation to have gone on for a thousand years requires racial hate to drive breeding selection.

>>96253635
>If racial hate didn't exist in battletech then the races we know today would not exist as they'd have mixed off.

Most BattleTech planets were settled by people from two or four places, and most people in BattleTech never leave their home planet.

>>96253635
Ethnicities are entirely arbitrary and you can trace people's lineages based on what planet they're from.

>>96253635
>s they'd have mixed off.
That's pretty much the case.

>>96253648
That is irrelevant considering the handwaved FTL that makes interstellar wars spanning thousands of systems last 5-10 years on average.
moving around the IS is easier than moving around the planet today, so a thousand years of racially homogenous breeding in a rainbow of ethnically segregated communities could only exist if racial hate is alive and well.

>>96253652
Which is to say that what planet you're from pretty much is your ethnicity. Ongoing melting pot worlds are not common in the slightest. You get a random mix of whatever groups were involved when it was founded, and that's pretty much it until there's a huge refugee crisis somewhere else.

>>96253655
Except for the fact that it isn't.

>>96253658
Except moving from planet to planet is super duper expensive, your average Battletech peasant would never be able to afford to move to a different planet.

>>96253668
Doesn't matter, mechwarriors are all over the place, they are the literal rockstars of the battletech universe, mechbunnies are a canon thing. You have heard about the genetic presence of Genghis Khan, right? A thousand years of pre-flight pre-internet earth couldn't even maintain ethnic purity the same way battletech is written to have done.
Battletech is racist.
ANY scifi universe that doesn't have mono-brown muttoids as the human race, is racist.

>>96253658
Racial homogeny would preclude black samurai.

>>96253702
And how does a pre nigger come to exist in an japanese interstellar empire? By over a thousand years of racist niggers breeding with only niggers and/or by racist japanese refusing to breed with them.

>>96253697
>mechwarriors are all over the place
4 soldiers appearing on a planet of tens of thousands of people is not going to meaningfully alter the genetics of a place.

>>96253658
It's canon fact that only a small amount of people travel between worlds.

>>96253702
Not true at all. The Dracs (and Capellans and Lyrans) imposed a culture artificially from above. Tetuhara-sama could be a 1000% strong black man with ancestry only from deepest darkest Africa whose ancestors a few centuries ago were like, "What? We're all samurai now? Okay, sounds good." and started wearing kimonos and eating sushi and shit, with only a few importing Japanese wives.

>>96253720
That sounds like a challenge

>>96253720
Tell that to genghis khan and his genetics appearing in 90% of chinese.

>>96253635
The Combine does not have time for your idle nostalgia for backwards tribalism. Report to Mugabe Taisho for your assignment. May you achieve much honor and die bravely. Or. Or die bravely. I get that mixed up sometimes.

>>96253740
Genghis Khan appears in most people, he is not most people's genetics.

This is easily the stupidest version of this discussion we've ever had on this board.

>>96253762
Only now that you're involved.

>>96253748
>The Combine does not have time for your idle nostalgia for backwards tribalism.
Explain Arkab.

>>96253762
Discussion?

>>96253720
So your argument is that racism is dead as evidenced by thousands of worlds that have chosen to remain racially segregated for a millenium?

>>96253210
Like all good scifi, it's designed to sort of kinda make sense when you approach it in good faith and assume all the handwaves are reasonable, and absolutely doesn't make any sense if you try picking it apart piece by piece.

It's literally all being done to convince americans that actually, these giant 80's anime mechs are highly realistic, and it did it's job too well. Now they all argue about like it's actually true. Or they cope and seethe and try to insert retcons that they actually suck and everyone is unknowingly fighting war wrong like it's a bad inside joke.

>>96253780
We already told you once about Arkab; pray we do not have to teach you again.

>>96253795
>chosen
Are you putting up the funds for mass migration?

>>96253805
Arkham who? Sounds like some comic book crap.

>>96253817
IIRC Arnheim is a High Elf colony from Warhammer.

>>96253795
The planets don't have a choice, there's no way for any interbreeding to happen because nobody has a way to get from one planet to another.

>>96253780
They are a conquered vassal state like American Indians.

>Americans don't believe in rain dances.
>Explain the Hopi then.

Technically correct.

>>96253800
It's accurate in the same way something like the Xeelee books are accurate. While Battletech makes vastly sweeping assumptions about how engineering advancements will be made...none of it actually breaks physics (aside from the FTL). It's all stuff that theoretically could exist.

>>96253893
I'll point out that if the Hopi are doing rain dances, then they clearly aren't working.

>>96253917
Desert people dance more for rain. Supply and demand.

>>96253911
The efficiencies of BattleTech spacecraft drives only don't break physics in the most technical sense. The strategic drive efficiencies are insane and approach matter/antimatter conversion levels.

>>96253925
Well that makes sense, fusion power is literally harnessing the power of the fucking sun. With that kind of power you could melt planets and tear apart the fabric of the galaxy itself.

>>96253911
The fact that the entire setting is justifying that war will be fought with 1980's anime mecha puts it deep into the grey area there from the start. It's very cool though, the franchise would be long dead without the mechs.

>>96253940
It's more efficient than fusion should be.

>>96253917
Rains Georg who lives in Mawsynram and does nothing but rain dance all day and night is a statistical anomaly and should not be counted. But the rain gods are nothing if not unfair.

>>96253606
>HEY MADE ONE BIG MISTAKE: THEY ATTACKED MY HOME PLANET.
DEY TUK 'IS PLANET!!!

>>96253949
The sun produces 3.8 x 1026 joules of energy every second, and our sun isn't even the most powerful sun. The setting's fusion energy is understating its power if anything.

>>96253852
Then there is absolutely no evidence to make the asinine statement that racism is dead.

>>96253941
Sometimes humans do things because they are cool to do, not because they are efficient or any nonsense like that.
We aren't robots.

>>96253893
>>96253917
>>96253960
The problem is they are doing rain dances for nonexistent gods. If you want rain you must invoke Thor/Donar/Zeus/etc... and you must do so in a language he understands: High Gothic which would start something like
>Ek lathu Thurrisaz...

>>96253976
The sun is much larger than a WarShip*. The Sun actually puts out a relatively small amount of energy considering its size. It puts out 2x10^-4 W per kg of mass. A typical lightbulb weighs 50g, or 0.05 kg. At the same rate, it would put out about 10^-5 W, which is about a million times less than they actually do.

You fail to understand how big the sun is.

It's really, really big.

*Citation needed

>>96254009
So interbreeding is the only definitive evidence of racial tolerance?

>>96254049
I'm gonna need you to convert that to bald eagles per furlough squared or star league tons, whichever is less.

>>96254055
Yes.
Anything less is literally just lip service.

>>96254061
We actually use watts to measure lightbulb output in this country, sorry.

Nice try though!

>>96254061
I never understood the point of these "jokes". They aren't funny. They don't draw attention to something people aren't aware of. They aren't creative.

Is there a point aside from briefly creating a smug sense of superiority over Americans?

Are you aware that the fact that you use metric basically means that you've been cucked by the French?

>>96254049
Sure but the sun uses inferior materials for conversion to energy too, mostly hydrogen and helium, whereas Battletech can use incredibly efficient materials for conversion into energy.

>>96254009
I'm not sure why you're hung up on such a peculiar issue. Except where it is explicit rationale for a conflict the racial makeup of a population is entirely irrelevant to the matter of giant robot troopers punching each other and shooting lasers.

You are of course welcome to point to such conflicts for discussion should they be found within the game lore.

So far the only citation given in thread is actually a matter of religious persecution/revolution; so the count remains "0" racial conflicts.

I am posting this Hammerhead because I like it. It has no bearing on the conversation topic, but it is substantially more interesting.

>>96254097
Battletech engines literally use hydrogen.

>>96254055
>>96254062
So all those blue eyed Kuritans...

>>96254107
Yeah but they can use like...solidified compact hydrogen, compared to the sun's giant ball of gas.

>>96253294
It's actually not that hard. The front armor of a Leman Russ is canonically equal to 480mm of rolled homogeneous armor. That's a published value. So we compare that to an IRL Abrams M1a2 battle tank. The front armor of that tank is the same as 700mm of RHA. Then we look at the math behind Battletech. The developer made a direct statement that a small laser is powerful enough to melt the front armor of an Abrams, torch the entire interior, and come out the back with energy to spare. That's 3 points of Battletech damage. If it can do that to 700mm of RHA, it can definitely do it to 480mm. So since we understand how much power it takes to kill a Leman Russ in 40k, we can safely assume that a small laser is more than that. And THAT means that a weapon like a Gauss Rifle that deals 5 times the damage of a small laser must be something that can wipe out a Russ without even trying.

>>96254128
Don't forget the black ones with Japanese names.
Culture and race are detached in Battletech. Except for the Capellans and their slant-eyed XIN SHENG surgery.

>>96254100
Oh wow where to start here?
>"peculiar" issue
An attempt to gaslight, implying that the issue is not one of extreme importance to both sides of the argument, one which has gripped our world in political conflict for decades, nigh on a century straight in fact.
>you are welcome to
A pathetic attempt to assert control of the discussion, trying to place yourself as an arbiter. I spit on your welcome because it, like you, is worthless trash. I can make any observation I damn well please about Battletech wether or not you fucking like it, bitch.
>the only citation
The lore itself is evident and that supports the racism opinion, not even IRL earth has been able to maintain ethnic and cultural preservation in the past millenia the way battletech is written to have done so, so not only is racism a facet of Battletech, it is evidently more prevalent than ever it was on Earth in all human history.
>racial makeup of a population is irrelevant
Demonstrably false, the very design of many mechs has been dictated by the racial culture of the empires they are manufactured in. The way they are painted, the way they are named, etc...

>>96254128
Blue eyes are a recessive trait, in order for it to still exist the blue eyed peoples in the combine had to be very selective about breeding with their own kind.

>>96254143
The only thing more poisonous than honest Vs debate shit is dishonest VS debate shit.

>>96254147
>Culture and race are detached in Battletech
I will never accept that as true.

>>96254158
Prove the numbers wrong then.
>Imperial Armor for the 480mm figure.
>IRL for the 700
>Crays OF post on the subject of energy weapon output for a small laser melting an Abrams
>Battletech rulebook for a small laser dealing 3 damage
>Basic math to infer that if a thing can utterly destroy 700mm of protection, it can also destroy 480mm

>>96254151
>not even IRL earth has been able to maintain ethnic and cultural preservation in the past millenia the way battletech is written to have done so
Because Earth doesn't have populations separated by literal interstellar distances...

>>96254151
I gave you the easiest possible layup to go find me a single instance of ethnic cleansing in over a thousand years of battletech history and you chose to shit yourself instead.

>>96254131
Solidified compacted hydrogen doesn't weigh less than the hydrogen that the sun burns, and the hydrogen at the center of the sun (where the fusion happens) is very, very dense.

>>96254215
Well we can't use the bigness and mass of the entire sun as an example of low energy efficiency if the actual fusion is just happening in the core.

>>96254182
The implication that the main battle tank of a galaxy spanning power in the year 40,000 is noticeably inferior to the M1 Abrams is fucking stupid and should be ignored.

Ignoring actual, published rules on what happens when a small laser hits a primitive combat vehicle in favor of some dev wanking off about how high tech his not very high tech setting is also extremely disingenuous.

>>96254228
The same is true for fusion engines, most of the mass is the shielding and infrastructure to move the power out of the core and into whatever you're powering.

>>96254100
The Hammerhead looks really cool

>>96253635
>If racial hate didn't exist in battletech then the races we know today would not exist as they'd have mixed off.
Retard.
Not hating other races =/= Being sexually attracted to other races.

>>96253740
And as we all know the Chinese never lie about their history or heritage to make themselves look more important than they actually are.

>>96254049
>It's really, really big.
It's miniscule compared to my disgust for the quality level of this thread.

>>96254272
That anon is exaggerating, but genetic testing has shown that about 8% of men in northeastern Asia (ranging from northern China, through Mongolia and the 'stans) have a very specific Y-chromosome haplogroup which geneticists tentatively link to a single man in the 12th Century (when Genghis Khan lived).

That this is descent from the Universal Leader is modern speculation; generally there aren't stories of being descended from him except among certain dynasties.

>>96254236
>The implication that the main battle tank of a galaxy spanning power in the year 40,000 is noticeably inferior to the M1 Abrams is fucking stupid
40k is exactly that fucking stupid by design.

>>96254281
Be the change you want to see.

Let's talk about the OP and how annoyed we are with Wylie's Coyotes.

On the one hand, I think it might have been a little lame to have them just be more Clanners, but on the other I found their eventual resolution (Star League cache + Samoyeds or something) incredibly unsatisfying. I'd honestly have rather had things just stay open and unresolved.

What are some other fun plot hooks that CGL screwed up?

>>96254019
Settling all your conflicts with card games to the point they decide every major turning point in history isn't unrealistic in the "breaks physics" way, but it is in the "doesn't make a whole lot of sense regardless" way. It's fine if you're only buying into it in the first place cause you like card games though, then it's fun.

>>96254298
There's a point pretty recently where basically everyone is descended from everyone who was alive and bred at that time. There are more recent points where everyone of a given ethnicity is related to everyone of that ethnicity who were alive. The numbers cannot support the idea that everyone has exclusive ancestors. The exponential increase in the number of great-great-great-repeating-grandparents you have outnumbers the amount of people who were even alive.

>>96254325
Tbf though, the setting does make sense from a logical perspective. Feudal knights fighting in small units on the battlefield was the way we solved conflicts for 99% of history. Modern, industrial republics with industrialized warfare is a small, insignificant part of history that's already disappearing.

>>96254321
The Leman Russ stacks up well against every other tank of its rough weight, including the science-magic of ancient precursor races.

>>96254341
The numbers are such that everyone who colonized a world under the Terran Alliance and lived long enough to have kids is an ancestor to every single person whose ancestry remained on that world up through about the 3rd succession war. Every single person on earth right now is somewhere between 50th and 75th cousin to any other random person on average. Way closer to people in the same ethnicity. An isolated BT world is probably populated by 10th cousins or closer.

>>96254213
>ethnic cleansing
This is only one form of racial hatred and one which requires to hating races to be stuck together in a place that one or both cannot quit.
Racial segregation across the inner sphere is racism, the races have chosen to kee themselves almost entirely separate, even the identities of the stellar empires are racial.

>>96254430
That's purely economics. When it costs half a billion dollars to transport a single person from one planet to another, you won't see anybody but the ultra-rich migrating.

>>96254430
He says, while a black samurai named Tojiro McMuhammed calls an ethnically Japanese Lyran knight a filthy gaijin.

>>96254415

Let's assume 4 kids per person on average (this is about what the early US saw) together with three generations a century. Colonization started in earnest in, what, 2150? Over half the Inner Sphere was colonized by the time the Terran Alliance threw their hissy fit in 2242.

Let's calculate it up through 3017.

That's 8 full centuries, plus another 2, for 26 generations. 4^26 = 2^52 ~= 4 x 10^15

Yeah, that's probably about right.

I never remember how "early" BT history starts.

>>96254415
>Every single person on earth right now is somewhere between 50th and 75th cousin to any other random person on average.
Incorrect, sub-saharan africans are about 20% genetically different from every other racial group on the planet, the rest of the racial groups are at most 2% different from each other.
There are whole separate species of animal which are more closely related to each other than some of the human racial groups are.

>>96254438
Post-colonization circumstances
The colonization efforts decided from the get-go to be racially segregated when economic concerns didn't matter.
>>96254441
Wouldn't be the first retarded nigger to exist.

>>96254345
I don't think any of that is going to decide whether or not we deploy the dougram, let alone that it does amazing and it actually just beats everything else.

>>96254430
Again, blue eyed Kuritans, what "Race" is that?!
You willfully confuse the lack of homogeneity with racial segregation, ignoring that these populations are extremely isolated.

>>96254441
I wish we had more detail about New Kyoto/Drac relations. We know that the SLDF had a regiment from New Kyoto where everyone carried a katana and wakazashi, and we know that as Lyrans they probably hate the Dracs, and we know that the Japanese on Earth find the Dracs cringe...but I'd love more exploration of those groups specifically.

I have an idea for BattleCorps now, following a New Kyotan in the 10th Lyran Guard with Victor on his stupid little rescue mission.

>>96254454
The colonization efforts from the get go were done by national groups, ideological groups (cults and evangelical zealots, mostly), and corporate groups.

>>96254447
Southwestern Africa is crazy. There's more genetic variation within Botswana than the entire rest of the world, basically.

>>96254461
I'm more interested in Tematagi, since that's where they make Spiders in the FWL.

>>96254458
>extremely isolated.
>FTL travel and communication
Your subjectively applied narrative is not Battletech.

>>96254471
Why do you think Tematagi is Japanese? That's not a Japanese name.

>>96254476

>ftl travel is incredibly uncommon

How many more times do we have to say this before you'll believe it?

>>96254476
The Federated Suns only has a small handful of jumpships, maybe half a dozen at most, to cover an empire of over 500 planets. There's not much FTL happening.

>>96254495
>half a dozen at most

Dude

>>96254477
It's the headquarters of the Nimikachi corporation, in the city of Kamagawa. The only reason it's "not Japanese" is because it was written by white guys who wouldn't know a genuine Japanese name if it slapped them in the face. It's clearly intended to be Japanese.

>>96254495
Are you certain you want to argue that the Federated Suns has six jump ships in total?

>>96254483
Until you can rewrite the lore so that full scale interstellar wars covering the whole inner sphere don't start and end within the span of a single decade.
Jumpships have to be everywhere and constantly moving people all over the fucking place for that to be so given that the warring factions have nominal control over all of the worlds of the inner sphere.
Also rarity and exense are invalid arguments because the novels have written numerous times of pirates and literal farmers sons getting around with ease.

>>96254495
Don't they make like 10 jumpships a year even at their lowest point?

>>96254495
Then the federated suns would not exist.
Controlling hundreds of worlds requires some application of force and the threat of that force must be respectable.

>>96254510
When most planets have only a few thousand people and no mechs it's not hard to apply force to them.

Final details are all that's left, energy weapons, cockpits, numbers and insignia.
I'm very happy with how the scheme turned out on combat vehicles.

>>96254495
>>96254500
Sorry, forgot citation from DropShips and JumpShips.

I guess that the FedSuns could have 6 with the others splitting up the remaining 1994.

>>96254510
>>96254515
Both of you haven't read the source books.

>>96254507
It's well established that every time they have those big wars, they have to conscript a fuckload of jumpships to keep their militaries rolling. The Fedsuns in particular ground their economy to a halt when they grabbed every single jumpship they could to go punch the dracs in the face.

>>96254495
>>96254500
>>96254523
Oh, I think I figured it out.

>>96254523
Wasn't that number famously noted later to be off by an order of magnitude?

>>96254523
Yes, and Warhammer 40k has entire planets being defended with fewer soldiers than fight in small regional conflicts IRL, you're supposed to ignore non-sensical numbers when they pop up anon.

>>96254531
Which way?

Hmm...now I'm gonna go hunting in AeroTech 2 and TRO:3057.

BRB

>>96254541
Definitely an order of magnitude down, the federated suns only have a small fraction of a single jumpship.

>>96254483
I mean just being uncommon, you've still got burn trips taking an entire week to and from the Jump Points.
Colonist shipping off for the Americas would be lucky to do so in 6 to 8 weeks, that'd be about only 100 light years on BattleTech averages.

>>96254541
I looked through more recent books and I'm actually a little surprised to find that FASA (and FanPro and Catalyst) never again published hard numbers for any JumpShips ever again, except to note that there's only a handful of Chimeishos because the design is brand new.

I assume that was on purpose to avoid being pinned down by something like this.

>>96253311
By providing the fucking weapons they fucking need?

The big colony waves are very early when someone else was footing the bill under the Terran Alliance, then during Jihad when refugees could get their hands on ships and fuck off, and then under the RotS with their genocidal "relocations". Post Helm but pre-clan also allowed for excess ships to be built for less critical missions such as sending dissidents to anywhere-but-here, but then the clans forced everything to be redirected to that.

>>96254143
>small lasers doing this
No. Flat out no. A large laser? Maybe, but a small laser would barely get through a WW2 Sherman.

>>96254609
They stopped giving hard numbers for basically everything because all hard numbers end up being retarded.

>>96254642
Smart

>>96254637
You underestimate how powerful the technology of the setting is.

>>96254541
it's in stratops, I think? whichever of the new rulebooks has the JS design rules

>>96254642
Considering we're saying this right next to a guy sourcing a twenty year old supplemental book giving a single number for a single tanks armor thickness and extrapolating that as the canon for the entirety of 40k in perpetuity, they're right. Hard numbers kill pop scifi. Get used to saying "many" and "few", it saves trouble in the long run.

>>96254719

I don't like that picture. Please take it away.

>>96254461
>We know that the SLDF had a regiment from New Kyoto where everyone carried a katana and wakazashi
Damnit I'd like to know more but Sarna 'New Kyoto' doesn't give me much about that

>>96254730
It's a throw-away line in FM:SLDF (and maybe the SLDF book too, I'm too lazy to check).

>>96254745
iirc, there was also a regiment or division with no particular cultural heritage related to Japan, but who were just obnoxious weebs and annoyed the Combine in particular since they were stationed on that side of the IS.

Was bondsmen a thing even in very early Clan era, like Crazy Nick's time? Or just POW when someone get captured?

>>96254642
This is why most popular sci-fi settings are feudal. When you have incredibly powerful technology like what Battletech has, the only way to keep the setting grounded is to cripple the social and economic sphere of the setting.

>>96254756
I know that one. 124th Royal Heavy Assault Regiment

>>96254759
It's in the very first clan novel ever.

>>96254756
>>96254766
Lol and/or kek.

>>96254782
I wish I was skilled enough to paint anime waifu nose art.

>>96254782
>anime pinup nose art is canon
Awesome.

>>96254782
TIL. That's hilarious.

Oh, this is neat. Right on the next page, nice to see some American classics alongside the Blackwatch, and with Sandhurst being the premier school while Westpoint is for fucking tankers.

At least have it be for artillery and engineers like it was originally.

>>96254782
Oh, this is also good.

I only skimmed FM:SLDF before; it looks like a fun book, almost as much as the OG Star League book.

The Cameron Dome Warmer is the single best piece of equipment in all of BattleTech and I'll fight anyone who disagrees.

Is this supposed to be A Few Good Men?

Also, I'm done now, sorry.

>>96254830
Don't be, I enjoyed it

The peak.

>>96254879
Wrong.

>>96254919
You Will Never Be A Plane.

>>96254879
The peak will be clantech superheavy jump-capable LAMs.

>>96254933
>superheavy LAMs

>>96254968
With nano jump drives, and hooker caste storage.

>>96254930
Well yeah, he's a mech. The peak of mechs by WoG>>96254879

>>96254970
You forgot the relativistic weapons.

>>96254879
What is it about the LAM that makes some people so butthurt?

>>96255010
in terms of this thread? it's entirely the fact that some people like them.
In battletech more widely, there's a handful of aging grogs who remember the era where custom LAMs were legitimately completely broken, a larger pool of younger grogs who copied the passed-on opinions of the old-timers, and among the post-loretuber era of brand new retards, I'm really not sure

>>96255047
I dunno how many people still primarily think of LAMs as overpowered units when they've spent how many years completely boondoggled into irrelevancy until recently. And now they're kind of popular again.

I've noticed a fair few of these lore additions with clear bends towards a specific view of battletech all came around 2010, slowly being unworked or possibly turned into in-setting rumors since. Starting to think the "don't make any big claims" modern stance is probably much healthier than letting herb say everything he doesn't like fell down the back of the sofa and no one ever used it again.

>>96255075

They should just make AirMechs subject to lawndart rolls, problem solved.

>>96255075
>I dunno how many people still primarily think of LAMs as overpowered units when they've spent how many years completely boondoggled into irrelevancy until recently
lots of guys kind of checked out in the MWDA or Forever 67 eras and are still there

>>96255084
Neither of those groups are inclined to hate LAMs, that's mostly Forever 25s and the three existing Forever 49s.

>>96255112
I meant more that a lot of guys checked out of following BT rules-wise back then, so the last set of LAM rules that they remember are the compendium ones
and yeah, they probably mostly are also NO CLANS ALLOWED types

>>96255047
>>96255075
No it's that transformer mechs are stupid both conceptually and for the game.
On a fundamental level a machine that dedicates so much complexity and breakdown potential and has design compromises both for the sake of making it transform from a walking tank to a plane will not be able to effectively deliver as either of those things relative to dedicated machines.
As for the game it makes it ridiculous, a big part of battletechs draw is that it's the mech game/franchise that takes big robots seriously instead of what anime usually does.

>>96255180
>transformer mechs are stupid both conceptually and for the game.
Kill yourself, fuck off, and never post again, in that order.

>>96255180
Someone does not appreciate the PEAK of battletechnology.

>>96254781
>It's in the very first clan novel ever.
You mean the Founding of the Clan, or Blood of Kerensky? What I mean was if the bondsmen thing existed even in very early in thr Clan history, not long after KLONDIKE

>>96255180
On a fundamental level a machine that dedicates so much complexity and breakdown potential and has design compromises for the sake of making a big metal guy that stomps around like godzilla is also patently ridiculous. But it's cool.
>that takes big robots seriously instead of what anime usually does
The change away from this attitude is what's spurring on much of the newer scene for battletech. The new generation has actually watched mecha anime and they know this take is all nonsense. Battletech is literally just continuing what gundam started and followed through to shows like macross and dougram. Battletech was not a trend setter, it was a trend follower.

>>96255226
I just checked and apparently there were bondsmen taken in Klondike.

>>96254637
>but a small laser would barely get through a WW2 Sherman.
You realize the Sherman has a canon record sheet in XTRO:1945, right?

What's your favorite autocannon /btg/?

>>96255282
I think it has to be the LBX/10

>>96255282
LB-10X, no question.

A big enough punch to hurt with decent range. The versatility is better than a UAC, and makes it almost kinda sort competitive with a PPC+DHS, which it outweighs a little (12 tons for PPC+5DHS vs 14 tons for LB-10X+1DHS+2 ammo), though it has fewer crits, making it more attractive for heavily-armed assaults.

It's also a Star League OG, which is cute.

>>96254807
>>96254807
Where are the rules in battletech for troops riding on top of vehicles. Image the firepower boost from 28 SRM infantry fighting from the roof of a Rommel, jumping off to do leg attacks when a mech tries to kick it.

I like Clan Sea Fox

>>96255010
The additional rules they have to remember to use LAMs in a game makes their brains hurt. Basic battletech is about as complicated a game they can do. Ever since Alpha Strike was introduced to attract simpler players the intelligence of players has declined and these players get mad at the more complicated parts of the main game.

>>96255392
Dude, LAM hate predates Alpha Strike by literal decades.

>>96255075
Their advantage comes out in campaigns in which you use a world map (Battleforce, etc), Imagine you have a battalion of mechs and have to guard a bunch of bases on the planet Earth. One base is in syria, one at the north pole, one in america and one in australia. Some raiders land and hit the base of their choice. If you don't have dropships to transport your mechs quickly, they will have to walk over continents to reinforce each other, often arriving long after the raid. If they are LAMS though, they can fly, meaning you can concentrate your ENTIRE FORCE in a matter of hours on a single point.

They can also be used for orbital defence to stop the raid before it even lands - instead of a battalion of mechs and maybe six Aerospace fighters, the raider's dropship could be met in space by the six defending fighters and all 36 LAMS.

LAMS can also straf rear areas, hit ammo convoys and repiar yards, lay minefields, gather intel, etc, easily outmaneuvering and flying above the plodding ground forces that try to intercept them.

LAMS may suck in the usual clan style 1 board grudge matches, but in games that include elements of a more realistic theatre of war, they rule.

>>96255264
I don't care. It's not canon anyway

>>96255405
Yes, but the desire to dumb down Battletech to appease retard has persisted forever. Idiots and Alpha Strike players have always been with us. It's only recently that the IP compromised its own principles in order to cater to retards with fat waist lines and fat wallets.

>>96255282
As a 3025 player, the AC/5. Pretty good range and you have the optional rule of double firing it, giving it a damage potential of the PPC, It makes the Rifleman a beast against other SSW era mechs.

>>96255389
me too

>>96255180
Battletech was not made for you and its foundation does not conform to your vision.
The way mechs in battletech move and fight is directly inspired by and based on a number of mecha animes.

>>96255257
Copy. Thank you

>>96255257
NTA, but may I ask which book is this?

>>96255389
I'm getting worried about them becoming the writer's favorite pet mary sue faction

>>96255474
Historical Klondike

>>96255480
who's the current writer bossman again?
if we work from the example of benny, we can probably find his old fanfic and guess where things are gonna go from it
>>96255474
It's gotta be Historical: Operation Klondike

>>96255489
IIRC Randall is in charge now, but the Foxes are clearly favored by Brian "Sea Fox Brothels" Young.

>>96255503
Ok, yeah that explains everyting

>>96255047
>there's a handful of aging grogs who remember the era where custom LAMs were legitimately completely broken
>playing customs in pick-up games
Sounds completely deserved

>>96255075
>LAMs as overpowered units when they've spent how many years completely boondoggled into irrelevancy until recently. And now they're kind of popular again.
>until recently
was there a rules change I'm not aware of? I know they did a remake of the 3025 sourcebook but did it do more than update LAM designs with Shinny art?

>>96255560
I think it's just that this is the first time LAMs have gotten any attention in like 15 years.

>>96254661
You overestimate it.
>>96255264
>a non canon source thats notorious for being inaccurate
Bruh.

>>96255609

If we really, really want to settle it, there's a canon BAR value for modern armor (I think it's about 6?) and rules about what a Small Laser would do to it.

>>96255609
>a non-canon source
The highest canon source that even addresses the issue outright states a small laser instantly kills a modern MBT.
If anything, extrapolating the XTRO1945 stats to 21st century vehicles would probably be less generous to introtech's effectiveness.

>>96255431
>games that include elements of a more realistic theatre of war, they rule.
No one cares about that. 2 mapsheet, 2 lance games in isolation are the only way Battletech is played anyway.

>>96255626
>highest canon source that even addresses the issue outright states a small laser instantly kills a modern MBT.
I do not and will never accept this as canon. I don't care WHO says it. It's wrong.

>>96255609
>Bruh
Direct dev statements overrule everything else. There was a direct dev statement that said a small laser melta an Abrams. Fucking deal with it.

>>96255629
Then don't argue based on whether something is canon or not.

>>96255626
>>96255639
>The highest canon source that even addresses the issue outright states
If you haven't seen a "canon writer" say dumb shit that's clearly wrong, you just haven't seen them acting out enough.

I saw one "current battletech author" arguing on reddit that battlemechs are supposed to be really stiff and inflexible and they definitely couldn't move anything like a person could, are we supposed to just throw everything out that contradicted that up till now? Will you continue with that stance with the people they might hire from the gay fanzine, as they've said they're wanting to? Even when they say whatever they feel like as ascended fanboys?

>>96255648
The argument went as follows
>a small laser would barely kill a sherman
>actually we have stats for that and they say a small laser would pretty cleanly kill a sherman
>that's not canon
>then the canon source says a small laser would kill a fucking abrams
>well I don't accept the canon
The dude should pick one thing to argue. Whether he's going by canon, or what makes sense, or seemingly by his own headcanon.

>>96255629
I mean, even if we ignore any outright statements, there is no way you're gonna convince anyone that a WW2 era Sherman has the equivalent to BAR10 armor, it'd fall into the primitive CV rules by virtue of being primitive even by real life 2025 standards, let alone a millennium in the future of 3025.

>>96255666
>actually we have stats for that and they say a small laser would pretty cleanly kill a sherman

Look at the BAR and the armor points. Is 5 more than 3? Is 3 more than 12?

>>96255626
Isn't XTRO:1945 explicitly not canon?

>>96255678
Going by the way the BAR system works with crits and that TRO's statement regarding BAR with those vehicles, a small laser is killing that sherman in 1-3 turns.

>>96255698
To be honest, I don't know, but the statement about a small laser killing an abrams isn't from that TRO, it's an off the cuff statement by one of the devs.

>>96254719
SEXOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO UUUOOOOOHHHH BRATTY MECH NEEDS CORRECTION

>>96255700
I see. So you are revising the statement from "a small laser will cleanly kill a sherman" to "repeated or very lucky hits from a small laser will kill a sherman (just like all other mechs and vehicles)"

>>96255705
IIRC dev comments on the OnlyFans are only canon if they're made in the "Ask the Devs" subforum.

>>96254637
Word of God (line dev) has it that a Small Laser is capable of gutting any Gen 3 MBT and carrying on to hut whatever was behind it.
By this assertion we can rate a Small Laser as, at its weakest, the equivalent of the Rapier Destroyers main gun in the 40kverse. The Small Laser is a backup weapon at best on most units, it's only a main gun on three recon chassis, and infantry BA.
Fun fact, Medium BA suits are effectively better Dreadnoughts, being smaller, faster, more mobile, and tougher, but also packing equivalent/superior firepower.

>>96255739
Jerome fucking Blake on a telephone pole, is this really what it's about.

Repeat after me:
You
cannot
compare
units
between
different
games.

>>96255727
I think three hits from the front or two from the side by a small laser to kill would be considered "clean" as far as kills go. If you want to be generous it could be as many as 5.
The overwhelming majority of mechs and vehicles do not have three small laser hits burn through their armor and destroy all their structure in their essential component.

>>96255755
That's the performance of 1945 anti tank weapons you fucking ape.

>>96255739
I'm actually a line dev and I say that a battlemech could never beat a space marine. All pilots are so gay and hungry for cock that the pilot would simply instantly eject from his mech, eager to suck him off as fast as possible.

>>96255753
40kunts really need to fuck off and die
Geedubs is a fucking plague

>>96255739
What you have done here is dug up a tossed off forum post that says heavy mechs move faster than sound and proceeded to ignore the many, many pieces of information that contradicts that statement.

>>96255761
If a weapon that does X damage against Y BAR does +1 damage per point of BAR below Y, then in this case a small laser is doing 8 damage per hit.

See, this is why you should just take that particular dev statement at face value.
Otherwise you get into pointless arguments with these retards who hate battletech trying to argue introtech can actually barely kill medium tanks from world war 2.
Does it make sense to me a gigantic future laser powered by a fusion engine that can melt through almost a quarter ton of future superamor in a line would brick a modern MBT? Yes. So that's my position.

>>96255778
Where are you getting extra damage from? As far as I know lower BAR armor only becomes relevant when the damage exceeds the BAR. It's not relevant from a 3 damage small laser.

Even if you were right, maybe being able to kill a sherman with a side or rear hit is the performance of a 50mm anti tank gun.

>>96255833
>maybe being able to kill a sherman with a side or rear hit is the performance of a 50mm anti tank gun.
NTA but to be fair, but an SL, a weapon basically designed to be an afterthought support weapon on most Mechs/CVs/ASF/etc, can kill real life tanks just as well as a real life weapon explicitly designed for that purpose, that already says a lot doesn't it?

>>96255874
The central, thoroughly bullshit claim was that a small laser can core a modern MBT in a single shot.

As we have seen, even if you badly misread the rules in XTRO:1945 that isn't true.

>>96255901
>if you read the rules that isn't the case
That actually isn't how it works. Rules are pretty low on the totem pole of canon.
If you try to argue based on canon it's absolutely the case that a small laser is killing a modern MBT in a single shot. If you try to argue based on just rules you can't really get anywhere because the abrams doesn't have an official, legal record sheet.
It's a completely pointless argument if you're trying to approach it from rules alone.

>>96255180
You do understand that the same criticisms you’re making against LAMs also all apply to mechs in general right? There’s no way to criticize a LAM for being impractical or unrealistic that doesn’t also apply to the other battlemechs

>>96255918
You should kill yourself whether you are sincere or trolling

>>96255937
Not an argument.

Abrams fires18-20kilo shells that can one-shot a tank. AC2 shell weights 22 kilos, I don't see how small laser can't destroy Abrams with one good shot.

>>96256003
They’ve had thousands of years to improve upon shells and make them stronger relative to their size.

>>96256003
>but dude it fires 260kg projectiles
>>96256007
The AC/2 and the abrams are separated by 300 years, not thousands.

>>96255919
No see it's totally different. Regular Battlemechs are like bipedal tanks. You know, ignoring the jumpets, punching and kicking, the melee weapons, the literal neurolink between your brain and the machinery via your helmet, how realistically a two story robot wouldn't be able to move anywhere near as well as a Battlemech could when remembering basic physics, etc etc.

So basically if you ignore everything about Battlemechs and how they function then it's totally different. So just stop asking questions.

>>96256024
Are you really trying to make the claim that current anti-tank rounds are more effective than an AC/2?

>>96256033
No.

>>96256007
>>96256024
And to be fair, battletech has strong precedence for spending hundreds of years to make something only marginally better than what they had before.

>>96256058
In the case of the clans it was a specially stupid exception. The clans actually only took like 20 years to make their clantech from star league tech, then they sat around doing fuckall for about 200 years.

>>96254531
Think it was StratOps that said that number was "registered" jumpships with Comstar and that there were way more to point should add a zero on the end. Which is even more retarded when you think about it.

>lands
>bullies your lancemate
>flies off
what do?

>>96256148
Rifleman refitted with twin LB-10Xs.

Given the feudalism parallels in Battletech, would a Megafauna invasion where due to greed, one of the great houses set off something like the Terminids Invasion cause the houses to unite or only make things worse by trying to divert the invasion to other worlds.

Think of the opposite of the clan invasion where instead of fighting in a situation against technologically superior opponents they are up against a near endless tide of invading insects

Do you think the Escorpion Imperio will show up more?

>>96256162
>Jagermech equipped with LBX AC20s
No kill like overkill

>>96256296
Battletech Gothic is doing exactly that. Megafauna and kaiju are why mechs get invented

>>96256311
>Haha, another cool periphery place that Homeworld Nobodies ruined.
I hope the snake clans roll them over like a speedbump in Revival 2.

>>96256162
wrong. RFL C3

Rifleman C 3
Built by Clan Sea Fox and based on the Rifleman C, this variant uses an Series 7K ER Large Laser and Type DL|Type DL Ultra AC/5 in each arm. Each autocannon also has a ton of ammunition allocated to it. Two Series 6b ER medium lasers are carried in the torso. Clan ferro-fibrous armor and Endo Steel provide enough weight savings to allow these weapons and fourteen double heat sinks. BV (2.0) = 1,871 [53][54]

classic rifleman, now with actual teeth.

>>96256332
And does it in the least exciting and lowest effort way possible.

So regular ACs can double tap with advanced rules, but can they double tap special ammunition?

>>96256365
>>Haha, another cool periphery place
Ummayads and Castilians barely had a lore (still shame they are gone) and Hansa was just LCW 2.0

>>96256058
Tbf, what else are they supposed to do? They had reached the Zenith of technology. There was no new discoveries to be had, no new technologies to develop, just slightly different arrangements of stuff they already knew about.

>>96256377
That's outside of the era we're talking about

>>96256641
This. I'd also like to point out that major paradigm shifts in technology are not commonplace. The Battletech timeline is actually rather reasonable in the fits and starts of military development with only a few periods of major renaissance punctuated by stagnation. You had the Star League which collapsed, then centuries of warring and degeneration followed by the recovery of Helm, then things settled for a bit until the Clan invasion; as a reaction, a number of technologies were developed and reverse engineered that would then be experimented with during Fed Com and deployed wholesale in Jihad. The Dark Ages that followed was in many ways a more controlled step back where limited supply and capability lead to economical use of Battlemechs and the development of Retrotech and more robust technologies. With the economic and military recovery of the galaxy, more technologies and chassis are being developed and implemented in the Ilclan era.

Any technological development that does not necessitate a rules change is invisible in a war game. We can reasonably state an AC2 manufactured in 3200 is going to have features, machining and quality greater than one slapped together in 3025; but there's no sense modeling that at the granularity of Total War when any linear shifts in its effectiveness will probably be matched with linear improvements in armor, structure, systems and etcetera. In effect: The Red Queen's Race is in full effect for any non-revolutionary designs: "It takes all the running you can do to stay in one place".

>>96256713
Precisely.

To put things into perspective, humanity is around 300,000 years old. For 299,800 of those years, warfare was largely fought in the same manner. It was only for a brief period after the Industrial Revolution that we began to fight wars differently, and even then were quickly reverting back to our old style of fighting. Industrialized modern warfare is simply not sustainable.

>>96256418
Yes

>>96256659
then play in a real man's era.

>>96256784
But LAMs don't exist in 2460.

>>96256641
>>96256738
Considering they haven't even entirely kept up with us in the decades after the game released, I don't think they're completely done with technological advancement. It's okay to accept it has a tech status quo for balance and stylistic reasons, which is very obvious and fine.

>>96256846
they exist in 3145.

>>96256911
Oh I'm sorry. I thought we were talking about a REAL MAN'S ERA.

>>96256881
They absolutely have kept up with us though. What do we have that they don’t (that isn’t lostech)?

>>96253202 (OP)
Did I hallucinate Battletech Gothic? Was it memoryholed? G-guys?

>>96256641
>Tbf, what else are they supposed to do?
Going by what the clans achieved? Just make better stuff.
Took the clans a mere 20 years to invent an entire new tech base better than everything the star league had and they did it just because they felt like it.
>>96256713
>The Battletech timeline is actually rather reasonable in the fits and starts of military development
Actually it isn't, it takes place over way too large a time frame for the speed of technological progress and adoption to make sense most of the time.
In history opposing sides will usually adopt and produce superior technologies extremely quickly unless one side is just an absolutely incapable group of backwards savages. Japan went from being a fuedal, borderline medieval state to being a world power that could stand with some of the top industrial powers of the world in the span of a few decades.
The succession wars are the most believable part because it was a genuinely apocalyptic all-encompassing war that had a shadowy cabal of space wizards across inhabited space actively and successfully working to sabotage the advancement of military technology.
In battletech the greatest powers in existence, some absolute industrial powerhouses with supposedly very capable research branches, can't even set up mass production of technology they've been salvaging and buying from literal neighbors, technology they understand and produce the direct predecessor of, for almost a fucking century.
The autocannon goes without literally any improvement of any kind by anyone for four HUNDRED years. Then you get the UAC/5 and that branch of progress doesn't even get applied to the other autocannons for hundreds of more years, a century of that spent in existence in the fucking star league.

>>96256978
Anon, even IRL we’ve hit a tech plateau. I took us 30 years to go from using biplanes for warfare to using fighter jets with guided missiles and after burners.

85 years later, and we’re still using fighter jets with guided missiles and after burners. We’ve barely improved at all from 1960’s era technology.

>>96256978
The clans coming up with super-advanced tech despite being in a resource-poor system and fighting a civil war and having to deal with Nicky K's weird animal fetish will always boggle my mind.

>>96256713
>>96256978
>We can reasonably state an AC2 manufactured in 3200 is going to have features, machining and quality greater than one slapped together in 3025
And this is just headcanon, no we can not, that's not how it is.
An autocannon 5 manufactured in 2240 is going to have literal identical effectiveness to one manufactured in 3150. Base technology is never improved, only new, better technologies are introduced, but more often it's sidegrades of questionable superiority at best.
Battletech is an extremely technologically stagnant setting, and this wouldn't even be a bad thing if it didn't have such blatant, arbitrary, out of place exceptions which foul that whole angle.
Basically, the clans completely trash all the writing of battletech.

>>96257008
Man it must be hard engaging with a thread when you can't fucking read.

>>96256997
Because Nicky K werd animal fetish despite all drawbacks made sure that conflicts would not be as devastated as Succession Wars, which meant Clans will maintain technological pace unlike Inner Sphere.

>>96256762
Rapid fire armour piercing AC20 sounds terrifying, until the first snake eyes. And the fact that you need TEN tons of AP ammo.

>>96254782
Miku mech is canon?

>>96257029
Its 4 or less for a jam
2 and it explodes.

>>96257050
I can survive the jam.

>>96256911
No LAM exists in 3145. They are all extinct.

>>96256988
We've actually seen pretty massive improvements in a number of fields with military applications since then, mainly computers and robotics. But you should also be aware MBTs were still overwhelmingly using APHE and pure RHA in the 60's, any plateau would be better argued to have been reached in the 70's or 80's, those technologies were more properly standardized among modern militaries by then.

>>96257045
yes

>>96257015
I read your headcanon cope and deemed it worthless.

>>96257064
They don't exist ever, they're imaginary.

>>96257019
Basing your command economy caste-based society around weird ritual combat completely divorced from actual war is not conducive to practical technological progress.

>>96257099
They've had models and have existed in writing for decades. They stopped being imaginary some time in the 80's.

>>96257065
Eh, computers are mostly a fad desu, as soon as we get brain interfaces like they have in Battletech computers will be obsolete.

>>96257121
Wrong, technically, actually, objectively, subjectively and morally, wrong.

>>96257067
is there any mention of what their base colour scheme is? 124th Royal Heavy Assault Regiment is such a dumb name. Just jam 4 fancy mech words together. I love it.

I wanna paint them pink.

>>96257105
Why?
Ritualized combats reduces collateral damage
Caste-based society insures that fewer resources used with much better efficiency

>>96257129
>computers are mostly a fad desu
Mechanical computers have been in use for hundreds of years.

>>96257077
If you would take that furry dick out of your mouth for a minute and stop agreeing with me that would be great. I really don't want to be associated with such an unsettled perspective.

Question though, how exactly does the Inner Sphere figure out how to in 3057 make an AC2 that fires faster without figuring out how to make an AC2 fire faster? I suppose UAC are just magic, and no part of this sorcererous breakthrough has any applicability in a standard AC2; especially not any of the material science and manufacturing necessary.

>>96257163
Organic computers are much more efficient than mechanical computers

>>96257105
You do realize that the entire setting is built on ritualized warfare, and that what we now think of as modern industrial warfare is a brief fad in human history that is quickly disappearing because it’s unsustainable

>>96257166
>If you would take that furry dick out of your mouth
Talk about being unable to read.
>how exactly does the Inner Sphere figure out how to in 3057 make an AC2 that fires faster
Well, they didn't. They never make the AC/2 fire faster, nobody does. It stays completely the same in-universe.
They figure out how to make UAC/2s, a related but separate technology.
>I suppose UAC are just magic
If you say so.
>and no part of this sorcererous breakthrough has any applicability in a standard AC2; especially not any of the material science and manufacturing necessary.
Correct. The AC is never improved or changed using the technology required for the UAC.

>>96257235
I'm not the one spitting clanner cock out to breathe in a completely separate setting topic. You can show someone else where Kerensky touched you on the doll, I'm not interested.

>>96257222
>the entire setting is built on ritualized warfare
Not the age of war.
Not the amaris civil war.
Not the star league, which was always attempting to maintain capability to fight total, industrial interstellar war.
Not two of three succession wars.
Not the fedcom civil war.
Not the jihad.
Not the wars of reaving.
Even the early history of the clans saw ritual combat abandoned in favor of total war at times.
Battletech's setting is actually more total war than limited ritual combat if you actually tally it all up.

>>96257281
That looks like non-sequitur from someone who cannot read.
Work on your reading comprehension.

>>96257293
The Jihad was very much ritualized warfare.

>>96257201
And, outside of using your own organic computer or enslaving another person for their organic computer, we don't have access to them as a technology.
It also appears we'll simply be using our personal organic computers to interface with mechanical computers for a long time after neural interfaces come into proper use. We won't be producing and using separate, purpose-made organic computers any time soon.

>>96257354
That’s my point anon, we have never discovered a computer that is as powerful as the human brain, hence why Battlemechs use human brains to fight and move and not mechanical computers.

>>96257064
LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I CANNOT HEAR YOU

>>96257371
Battlemechs use a human brain in concert with a plethora of mechanical computers. They actually require those mechanical computers just as much as the human.

>>96257340
>you agreed to ritual combat!
>yes, I'm ritually carpeting your planet with nuclear weapons, praise blake

>>96257064
Reminder that herbs retcon has been soft re-retconned and now it's just a vague belief that they probably might have been destroyed, purely to keep it open for players to use them anyway.

>>96257401
Computers that are designed to turn that organic processing and translate it for the mech

>>96257429
A lot of those computers are actually doing their own thing, feeding their information to the pilot, handling mundane tasks and certain parts of movement, balance and aiming.
Not to mention the fact you can outfit them in such a way as to operate completely independently of a human pilot.

>>96257471
Why would they handle any of the mech’s movement, that’s like if someone tried to plug a computer into your brain to handle how your left foot walks for you

Battletech needs a rewrite but I'd sooner trust a bunch of spastics in a magnet factory to do a better job than the current custodians of the IP.

aerotech, warship and lam hater dev needs to be fucking beaten to a pulp. over and over again until he stops that shit.
beat him, let him heal up and get out of hospital, beat him again.

fucking assclown.

bring back corporal punishment!

>>96257527
You can always go play battlefleet gothic if that's your thing.

>>96257482
You know that gyro? It's hooked up to a bunch of computers and systems with partial control of the mech.
It's constantly working with the pilot, making movements that are not entirely his own, so that the mech isn't eating shit every other step.
The mechwarrior's brain is not in total control of a mech. He's not the brain, he's a senior copilot.
You need DNI for more total control.

>>96254782
DIEBUSTER?!?!

>>96255230
>>96255458
Anon did not remember Love...

>>96255282
AC/2, FEAR THE PLINK!!!

>>96257008
>Basically, the clans completely trash all the writing of battletech.
Here here!

1 Atlas mech vs the entire world’s modern militaries. How long do the modern militaries last before they’re defeated?

>>96257651
Quarter second, maybe half.

>>96257556
BLERGH!
you trying to make me throw up?
you monster!

the game is called BattleTECH. as in Battle Technology / Technologies. THe game is NOT called BattleMECH. 'mechs are just ONE unit type in the game!

>>96257710
But battlemechs are the peak of all technologies in the setting.

>>96257716
Heresy. they are key. they are the central pillar, but you need supporting artillery and air cover. always. you need infantry, preferably in battle armour, to secure and hold ground, especially buildings.

>>96257796
Why would you need infantry to hold buildings for you when your mech has hands?

>>96257796
You really don’t. Air support? More like lawn darts. And if you absolutely need it, mechs can fly too. Artillery? Artillery mechs are better in every way. Infantry? Obsolete in 90% of their roles.

>>96257602
Well, you know what they say, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from groovin' magic.

>>96257805
utter heresy. and gross retardation

>>96257796
>air cover
But what if your Mechs could be your Air cover?!

>>96258077
Ah-ah-ah-ah-ah~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrZeY6CAvMY

>>96254501
Tematagi is an atoll in the Pacific, and was never settled nor colonized by the japanese.

Just bases and varnish left.

>>96254323
Honestly, someone a little while ago mentioned that they thought the clanner warriors should have been giants, like the Xentradi from Robotech. Ever since then, the idea has stuck in my head. I think I've come around to it. Would have been bizarre, but cool.

>>96258175
SRM and LRM carriers are so fucking bullshit cheap for just how fucking good they are. ANY world worth actually sending mechs at to raid or whatnot should be stocked with the fuckers on defence.

also, neat job once again.

>>96258220
Rally the best battletech force is a horde of LRM carriers with fastest and cheapest tag equipped mech you can get.
But I don't choose these ones out of efficiency, I just really like that LRM carrier sculpt.

>>96258189
And it would’ve been pretty hot too.

>>96258140
And BT writers are not renowned for their research and cultural accuracy. On top of its Japanese cities and Japanese megacorp, it's also right next door to a world called Hiratsuka. It's meant to be Japanese, the writer who named it was just bad at Japanese.

>>96258355
like,. why the fuck would any city worth the name not have at least 6 LRM carriers and 6 srm carriers? fucking pirate assholes with their wasps and stingers can't do shit if they're feeling the fucking rain.

it always seems battletech planets and shit are criminally underdefended.

think about it. a city has like billions and billions of credits sunk into just the developed land, add all the buildings and shit... there's tens of billions. NOW add in actual targets worth trying to attack and or raid and you are looking at hundreds of billions of house scrip worth of shit. and the taxables the revenue that city generates?

why the flying fuck wouldn't you have a company of mechs stationed there? at that fuckign point NOT having an actual sizeable mech force, a deterrent, is just criminally negligent. and buying one and maintaining it doesn't even appreciably eat into your fucking revenue stream.

hell, you'd think insurance companies would insist on ONLY insuring cities that bother to have an actual fucking proportionate mech and other asset force assigned to its defence.

In a reality where mech raids happen and the sky can suddenly be full of Union's hot dropping mechs, no one would insure anything unless it was suitably defended.

>>96258465
You have to keep in mind most planets in the setting have populations in the low thousands.

>>96258465
Sure, you can have six of each.
Now quick, are you defending the military base, the capital building, that cluster of emergency shelters, the factory that keeps the economy alive, the food storage silos, the farms, the water filtration plant, the other city, the other other city, or the Duke's rose garden with genuine Terran heritage plants?
Think fast, the attackers are burning hard and you have to load up your trundling missile carriers and move them across the world to wherever you think the raiders are raiding. If you get it wrong they'll be gone before you can redeploy.

>>96258496
but even shitholes like trell I had millions on it in 3025.

>>96258530
Anon doesn't know what he's talking about.

>>96258527
they can burn as hard and as fast as they like, the planet still has days, if not weeks for them to make landfall as they burn in, and their LZ narrows into a dot.

>>96258540
Their LZ narrows when they have hours to go. Minutes if they are in mechs with jump jets. By the time you can narrow down their approach, they'll land before your redeployment dropships do and then you'll have to advance into their positions and not the other way around.

>>96258530
So? Bhutan has a million people, have you seen the state of their army?

>>96258189
>>96258403
All I want to do, is turn Clanners into~ Giant Women...

>>96258355
>Rally the best battletech force is a horde of LRM carriers with fastest and cheapest tag equipped mech you can get.
I use Warriors for BSP; They can't scratch most things via threshold, but they can plink Mechs and spot for indirect fire.

>>96258465
>why the fuck would any city worth the name not have at least 6 LRM carriers and 6 srm carriers?
LRM Carriers sure, they can indirect fire, but SRM Carriers are a bit too slow and squishy.

Harasser Hover tanks would be better for knife fighting Mechs.

>>96255230
>just continuing what gundam started
No. It was continuing what Dougram started, with semi practical mechs that, while more agile and maneuverable than tanks, were still somewhat cumbersome and slow moving comparison to other mecha at the time. You look at the type of shit Gundam was pulling, even as early as Zeta, and BattleTech has no functional resemblance to it.

>Erm, cumbersome? Clearly you haven't ACKTULLY watched Dougram (posts that one gif)
Yes, Battlemechs and Combat Armors are very maneuverable, and can engage in a great deal more acrobatic movement than most western Mecha (e.g. they aren't bumbling hunks of barely movable iron). But they are not transforming airplane levels of bullshit. The setting is far more grounded and realized now, and anyone who copes by going "it was originally part of the game" should also remember that no BV was also originally part of the game, and should agree to play a 3050 Clan Invasion game with me using tonnage. I'll bring Clanners.

>>96258780
You do realize Shoji Kawamori actually prototyped his designs to insure they could transform the way he imagined, right?
That's WAY more work than anyone in CGL is going to put into Mech Designs.

>>96258940
Wow, cool. I admire his dedication. This relates to my post how?

>>96259034
The guy who created the Robots what turn into planes has more engineering chops than CGL/PGI's designers churning out bumbling hunks of "metal" that are both barely mobile AND STILL clipping into themselves.

While Kunio Okawara of Dougram is also very studious when it comes to his mechanical designs, he's also the guy who designed the fucking Gundam in the first place and went on to do things ranging from VOTOMs to the Brave series.

The guy behind the designs you praise for their realism ALSO created the very machine you mock as unrealistic.

In short, you don't know jack shit!

>>96258780
I mean tbf we consistently see Battlemechs moving faster than Armored Cores. They might not be as agile per se but definitely faster, and much more durable to boot.

Suppose there is a former Capellan Adept/Primus/etc working at the HPG station in FedSun. If he get to find out about a sensitive information that could help/harm CapCon, will he leak the info to help his former country? Or he denounces all former loyalties and shits when he joins the Comstar and only does that kind of shits when it benefits Comstar?

>>96259730
Do retards ask stupid questions?

>>96259730
Comstar is meant to be a monastic order, you are supposed to give up all other loyalties when you join.

A number of characters don't actually do that, though.

>>96259471
>Kunio Okawara created Dougram mechs
>Shoji Kawamori created Robotech mechs
>The guy behind the designs you praise for their realism (Dougram) ALSO created the very machine you mock as unrealistic (Robotech).
okay.

On a more genuine note, you are conflating realism with the theme and feel of Battletech mechs. Mechs themselves are unrealistic. It is also unrealistic that FTL travel and communication exist. The fact that Robotech designs are logistically functional/have similarity to real vehicles does not make them grounded in the same way that Battletech mechs are. The designs of Robotech are fine, great even. I love the unseen. But it's in how they behave that we disagree. In this way writing has a great deal more to do with preference. It's not Kunio Okawara vs Shoji Kawamori, but weather you want Kenichi Matsuzaki or Ryōsuke Takahashi's take on mechs.

By the standards and technology of the universe, LAMs and Robotech style mechs don't fit. And judging from your instance on the superiority of Robotech style mechs, and your repeated slagging off of normal Battletech designs, I'm not sure why you want to force them to fit. You don't seem to like the base concept of Battletech. That's fine, but why then try to destroy this small niche in the mecha community by making it like something that already exists?

>>96259496
This is true, but light mechs usually pay for it and are specialized to go fast. I don't think it's fair to compare a locust, which is ground based and has a limited armament, to some of the latest Gundam's which are not only ultra fast, but also pack insane levels of firepower, more akin to how fighter technology scales.

>>96259730
Comstar is a cult enforced by a massive intelligence apparatus, they don't let uncommitted members work in/on the HPGs.

>>96259857
>>96259857
>>The guy behind the designs you praise for their realism (Dougram) ALSO created the very machine you mock as unrealistic
(GUNDAM)
Okawara designed THE Gundam!

>LAMs and Robotech style mechs don't fit.
If they don't "Fit" you can't have Mechs at all!
And the fact that you need Macross to be ROBOTECH, despite the latter being an American bastardization of the former, suggest you have an inferiority complex over the mechanical designs you know nothing about!

>>96259942
>Okawara designed THE Gundam!
Yes. And as I pointed out, design is only part of it. It's how the mechs behave that matters.

>If they don't "Fit" you can't have Mechs at all!
>Unless you play with the toys the way *I* say, you can't have them!!!
Okay.

>And the fact that you need Macross to be ROBOTECH, despite the latter being an American bastardization
Next you'll be calling me a Gaijin.

>Suggest you have an inferiority complex over the mechanical designs you know nothing about!
An inferiority complex? C'mon Freud. My preference for a Battletech style mechs has nothing to do with my self perception.

Your image macro is also missing the point. How the mech looks is only part of what makes the mech. A PHK-1 Phoenix Hawk and a VF-1S Super Valkyrie look the same. But the way in which they behave is very different. I preferer the Phoenix Hawk, and dislike attempts to turn it into a Super Valkyrie. I don't know how much more plainly I can state this with out concluding that you just don't want to understand.

>>96260053
>I preferer the Phoenix Hawk, and dislike attempts to turn it into a Super Valkyrie.
And how does a Super Valkyrie not behave like a Phoenix Hawk in Battroid mode?

>>96260088
In that it has alternate modes at all, and relies on them for evasion and moving to the battlezone.

I tried some painting and basing techniques. Please shit on it productively, i want to get better before i ruin a mech that i really like.

>>96260266
do u wanna kiss?

>Mace
What
How
Where
Why

At least this one looks better than KGC-0000

>>96260330
Are you a hot readhead with great knockers?

>>96260266
The painting is fine. Upper level tabletop quality, even. It's your basing that's kind of fucked. You can't do 28mm styles with 6mm minis. It just doesn't look right. The little bushes and things become giant stands of bamboo. Grab yourself some colored rubber dust from a model railroad shop for most ground vegetation, forget using model railroad balast for rock, and grab yourself some sand from outside.

Now go my friend, and spend like $5 on stuff.

Also, the 6mm Constantine wire is a good touch.

>>96260351
Honestly that King Crab kinda fucks.

>>96260331
They gave it a hand actuator.

>>96260369
how do you reckon i could fix that, i tried to trim the tufts but they come out fucked beyond use

>>96260331
>>96260402
Because WYSIWYG is toxic masculinity and racist?

>>96260404
Give up on tufts altogether unless you're trying to do alien terrain. Gravel+Tufts has to be abandoned altogether. Grab some green dust, some sand, and maybe some little tiny trees and lichen bushes, and you will become attuned to the ways of the 6mm. Take a look at Z-scale model railroad techniques for inspiration. Well, except the people. They never fucking do that right, no washes or drybrushing or anything.

>>96260409
If you can't put a hand and a stick on the end of a gun barrel, I don't think you deserve to even comment on WYSIWYG.
I've personally assembled a Black Hawk KU U, complete with hand and hatchet.

>>96260402
Just like muh TRO 3050 Crab!

>>96260420
And I personally love eating ass, but you don't see me bragging about it.

>>96260429
Put your trip back on, bottom.

>>96260429
Au contraire.

>>96260417
>dust
stuff like this? are you sure

>>96260448
No dude. It's literally a bag of green rubber dust. Old school used to be sawdust. Did you know snow was made out of baking soda?

Is this better or worse than the AS7-D?

>>96260266
I disagree with the other anon. Basing for 6mm minis can be a little exaggerated to read better at table height. I've been putting off doing more work on the lads environs here while I've been busy painting them up still, but I think you've done a good job of providing a mix of textures and shapes with your bases to make it seem like a real environment.

So long as you're treating them like large brushgrass, ferns and bushes, the tufts work great. I would say for the hovercraft though that they look a bit cluttered except if they're explicitly to be a jungle environment.

Overall I quite like how yours are turning out; the concertina is an excellent touch and gives a solid 'battlefield' vibe that might otherwise be lacking and other manufactured wartime clutter would be good to tie other stands together.

>>96260495
As the first anon criticizing, no. Hell, I do environmental science and ecology for a living. The contrast of cane-like super grasses and desert terrain is full retard except in purposefully-alien terrain.

>>96260485
It probably would have literally killed them to actually model the fucking melee weapons.

>>96260402
The temp worker they had do the design didn't know that swaing in and out of some weapons in meklab automatically causes the hand actuator to appear nd noone could be assed to proofread the record sheet before bedazzling and printing it.

>>96258550
Bhutan doesn't need an army for self-defense, they're basically an Indian protectorate.

The only thing they need their army for is expelling ethnic Nepalis.

>>96260402
I never really saw the point of that rule desu

How many of the planets in the Inner Sphere would be actually peaceful? Not suffering raids, invasions, war and stuffs

>>96260597
Like half. Close enough to the interior and you give no fucks about border world problems. Well, at least until someone 4th Regulans or Smoke Jaguars you.

>>96260610
4th Regulans? Can you elaborate?

>>96260640
They did a super deep raid all the way to Conventry, and since it was a complete surprise they probably did it by only jumping to dead worlds or the deep void along the way.

>>96260208
So something it was originally designed with, physically prototyped and everything, that your Phoenix Hawk is a derivative of.

Also, the Destroids DO behave as mechanically as you desire while, you know, being some of the more iconic BattleMechs...
So yeah, I'm confused as to why you think you understand these designs better than the anime most of them are sourced from.

>>96260502
Well, I do art for my paycheck. I can tell you it looks really good and sacrificing detail and visual interest for realism is silly.

>>96260760
Nothing is cooler and more interesting than realism.

>>96260760
>it looks really good
An opinion and a shit one. Bunch grasses in xeric terrain look stupidly out of scale at 6mm.

>>96258780
Dougram was literally a gundam clone and I mean that in the best way possible. Literally all of it came around because tomino was told to make a superhero robot toy ad and decided to make a gripping war story toy ad instead, and the alterations he made to the formula of giant robot tv show stylings turning out to be real popular is what lead to all of this.
This is just a receding cope timeline.
>anime STINKS, mech not mecha!
>well patlabor movie 2 and 08th are kind of alright
>okay so the early military mecha stories battletech traced from are obvious sources of thematic inspiration too
>oh god it's all gundam

>>96259857
>a locust, which is ground based and has a limited armament, to some of the latest Gundam's which are not only ultra fast, but also pack insane levels of firepower, more akin to how fighter technology scales
Which is funny because we've just had a big discussion on battletechs status quo technology level and the accusation that makes gundam unrealistic is that after a less than a hundred years, the mechs actually got better lol

>>96259857
>but why then try to destroy this small niche in the mecha community by making it like something that already exists?
Because fuck you, that's why. CGL and all it's customers deserve anything done to them. If you want western robots, you can play 40k Knights.

>>96260480
Where am I supposed to go buy sawdust at? I don't see any modeling company that just sells sawdust.

>>96260788
>It's Gundams all the way down...
I just wanted to make the Terry Pratchett joke.

>>96260816
Just look up the brand Woodland Scenics for all that kind of thing. Cheap, and also available at Hobby Lobby too.

>>96260816
Get a saw and fucking MAKE SOME YOU ABSOLUTE FUCKWIT

>>96260715
>So something it was originally designed with, physically prototyped and everything, that your Phoenix Hawk is a derivative of.
Yes. I like the derivative, and the fact that it does not transform. I'm glad you're clear on that.

>Also, the Destroids DO behave as mechanically as you desire.
Hence why I don't bring up the Tomahawk or Spartan, which don't transform, and instead talk about the Super Valkyrie, which does.

>So yeah, I'm confused as to why you think you understand these designs better than the anime most of them are sourced from.
Anon, I have said repeatedly that the physical appearance of the mechs is not everything. It's how they behave. My repeated position is that Battlemechs should behave similarly to Dougram Combat Armors. You are either ESL or malicious.

>>96260788
I fail to see how saying I like Zaku's slugging it out in ground combat means I have to like all of the mecha tropes in anime ever (the Corefighter in Gundam, the insanity of the later models, transformations, wifeus, etc.) and insert them into Battletech to make it more like existing anime. Ran is narratively just King Lear, but anyone who would try to claim it as an Anglo Saxon work and demand more white people and knights in it would rightly not be taken seriously.

>>96260798
Thank you for your honestly, lol

>>96259857
>why then try to destroy this small niche in the mecha community by making it like something that already exists?
We're not destroying anything, we're telling you that it's part of a grander tapestry and if you opened your eyes you'd find a bunch of other stuff that's a lot like it to enjoy. You are part of a genre and not separated from it.

>>96260894
>all of the mecha tropes in anime ever (the Corefighter in Gundam, the insanity of the later models, transformations, wifeus, etc.
The LAMs are already in battletech lol, no one's change the setting by pointing out the things that are already there and are clear indicators of where it came from.
>I fail to see how saying I like Zaku's slugging it out in ground combat
Cmon big dog, this is the second to last step. All that's left is that GMs are cool too, and zakus fighting gms are cool, and nigga that's gundam.

>>96261001
By trying to put LAM's back into the setting, you are if not destroying then eroding an aspect of the mecha genre that already exists. Saying that it was in Battletechs early years, when it was figuring out what worked and what did not, is not an excuse. Again, do you want to go back to Clan vs. Inner Sphere games without BV. Do you want columns of heavy mechs getting defeated again and again by stingers volley firing medium lasers like in Thunder Rift?

As for "liking Gundam", why is it unfair to say that I like this:
https://youtu.be/JI8jUpbCFTM

But that I don't like this:
https://youtu.be/zsGtpbfAyxs

Both are part of Gundam. But both are clearly very different. Why do I have to like both because I like one?

What are some good mechs for under 1200 BV up to 3069?

>>96261058
The only reason LAMs even left BT was because Herb used an in-universe faction to channel his out-of-universe hate. LAMs were still being made up until 3050 and then came back briefly in Jihad. Their absence is 100% artificial.

>>96260769
I like fantasy.

>>96260760
You should draw lesbian elves.

Huh, it seems like light blazer is 1.5 ton, Ht 6, Dmg 7, 3/6/9, 2 crits then, with wooping... 269.5bv...?

>>96261113
Why do persist on avoiding the main point? It doesn't matter how Herb removed them, either in universe and then discouraging their use out of universe, or with an outright retcon. Why should I like all the tropes of mecha anime like transforming Robotech type mechs and want them in Battletech just it drew some visual inspiration from it, despite have more writing and visual inspiration from other, very different mecha?

>>96261160
Because they're part of the game. Until the Dark Age and Ilclan stuff dropped, they were in the played parts of the setting more than they were out of it.

>>96261058
>do you want to go back to Clan vs. Inner Sphere games without BV
Yes.

Get gud.

>>96261113
>>96261160
They also weren't removed and they aren't gone from the setting. He literally nerdraged so hard that they've walked back allowing writers to make controversial changes like that and it's all just rumors and legends now.
The LAMs may have all been destroyed... unless you want to use them, then it just wasn't true and you found some. Same with basically anything else now. It's a big universe full of mystery for a reason, the best sort for a setting for games.
>>96261058
>why is it unfair to say that I like this
The important thing is admitting gundam is cool. Dunno why you're hung up on that. You don't have to watch things you don't like. You don't have to be against battletech if you don't like dark ages or crittertech or whatever. I don't like unicorn either and I don't even consider it canon.

>>96261276
>The LAMs may have all been destroyed... unless you want to use them, then it just wasn't true and you found some
ATB keeps generating them in marketplaces into the 3070s, so as far as I'm concerned they never died at all.

>>96260549
I believe it's to represent the fact the weapon needs to be attached to a flexible joint dedicated to it(as seen with the scarabus).
It does not need to be a literal hand, but it's a critical joint, like the lower arm, upper arm and shoulder, where the hand would be if it was also a literal hand.

>>96261160
>>96261113
>>96261058
Were they outright removed from canon at some point or were they just mechanically nerfed and ignored in writing for a while?

>>96261276
>It's a big universe full of mystery for a reason, the best sort for a setting for games.
I agree. I don't mind the Logan Prime guy on here who has his homebrew defense force of LAM's that smack the Marian Hegemony around like a villain of the week. If he and his gaming group have fun with that, cool. Different strokes and what not. I do take issue with LAM's being a part of and influencing the main setting and game.

>I don't like unicorn either and I don't even consider it canon.
Almost like... you want something you don't like separated from the main setting which you enjoy?

Snide comments aside, thanks for being civil and having an actual discussion on this with me. I half the Anon's I've been talking to have felt disingenuous and wouldn't shoot straight, but not you. Thanks.

>>96261326
They were explicitly said to be totally extinct. As per Tactical Handbook, every single LAM in the Inner Sphere and Periphery automatically stopped working as of the end of 3052, no matter how many spare parts you had available or what you did to prevent it.

>>96261333
But didn't WoB create their own set of working LAMs after that?

>>96260827
Terry Pratchett did not come up with the "turtles all the way down" joke. It predates his birth by decades and is usually attributed to philosopher William James.

>>96261340
Yes. In the 3070s. And those were new designs, not the original Star League LAMs.

>>96261340
Yes, but with the understanding that they were already extinct in the "current" era. Dark Age came first, then Jihad was filled in to try and explain it. The WoB LAMs were pre-extinct before they were even mentioned.

>>96261355
It sounds like they never left and they were still fluffwise participating in all the fan favorite eras except FCCW. It's not like they could force players at their tables to keep LAMs out of their own games.
One might even call it a mercy to LAMs that they were left out of the catastrophic trainwreck of bad writing that is the dark age-ilclan.

>>96261326
Herb had the Nova Cats melt down the last remaining LAM factory asap, down to the literal foundations of the building with all structural elements and data storage devices manually destroyed by hand. This magically made all LAMs everywhere stop working shortly thereafter, with no one trying anything to keep them going.
Then he ignored them in the rules for as long as possible, tried to give them rules so bad that they'd be an automatic liability to any player (auto crit when hit in airmech, can't shoot in airmech, only allowed to have one, automatically lose the game regardless of objectives or context if it dies because they're so expensive and valuable, etc.) Then he walked them back to their current "meh" state in the rules and that's where they've been up until the urbanmech LAM joke drummed up wider interest. Right now LAMs only really exist to give the WiGE rules something to do, and they still have a bunch of exceptions since they are not actually WiGE vehicles and can do things like gain altitude.

Once the base rims are done drying I'll hose them down with varnish and take a shot of the whole outfit, dropship and all.

>>96261385
>It's not like they could force players at their tables to keep LAMs out of their own games.
I mean, that was the actual, stated intent.

>>96261407
Yes, but they weren't going to send death squads to players' homes for using LAMs. Imagine the expense, they couldn't even afford to pay writers.

>>96261194
imagine how big the game would be if this three-card monti didn't keep cropping up

>>96261394
Honestly it sounds like herb is a dishonest grifter with a hatred of some of battletech's foundational material and an unhinged lust for the clans and shit writing(I repeat myself).

>>96261394
>rules so bad that they'd be an automatic liability to any player (auto crit when hit in airmech, can't shoot in airmech, only allowed to have one, automatically lose the game regardless of objectives or context if it dies because they're so expensive and valuable, etc.)
Source? That's insane and can't actually have been what happened.

>>96253415

Well, there is that one planet in the Free Worlds League that had miscegeny laws passed against it by its neighbors on account of the population being genetically engineered for higher gravity adaption (which has no discernable cosmetic change). Leave it to the Free Worlds League to re-invent racism.

>>96261431
Well it didn't happen, but playtesters and insiders have said that's what he initially proposed and they pushed back until it became somewhat reasonable (if still clunky and kinda bad).

Are there any mechs Scorpions/Scorpion Empire is particularly known for? Thinking of getting Alpha Strike and using clan side of it as a starting point for Empire as a foray into later era maybe.

>>96261524
They like their weird old shit, which by the hanseatic crusade includes most/all of the initial invasion machines.

>>96261524
A lot of their stuff is just old. Older clan designs, older periphery regulars. The seekers will use literally anything as long as its got history. Sometimes they make clantech refits of stuff, like the Awesome C. Recently they've also been making some suspiciously Blakey designs like the Star Crusader, which was an omnimech that the blakists designed but never made. How did the Scorpions get this very obscure, very distinctly Blakist design and why did they actually put it into production? Questions, questions.

>>96261566
Many thanks, I only found RAT from Reaving Wars supplement on my own.

>>96261330
Tomino removed/downplayed a bunch of the hokier elements that were included at the demands of the executives of the original gundam himself with the movie releases. If you wanted a more "serious" gundam, the movie trilogy and its edits were partly supposed to be that. That I can understand, it was all tomino's vision.

But some fanboy with a big head coming in decades later and saying actually, the series should be about what HE wants, and he's gonna retcon in what he feels like, regardless of what anyone else says because he's behind the steering wheel at the moment, is pretty untenable to me. In these ways fukui shares a kindred spirit with herb.


I feel like part of the change is FASA gets that even if some don't like LAMs, other people do. You're just burning money to say nuh-uh to people when they tell you they want to buy a LAM box. There's lances where I think every mech in it looks stupid as shit, but it's not my guys, not my problem.

>>96261151
Someone screwed up, BV should be 65 for those.

>>96261001
>We're not destroying anything, we're telling you that it's part of a grander tapestry and if you opened your eyes you'd find a bunch of other stuff that's a lot like it to enjoy. You are part of a genre and not separated from it.
Exactly, Okawara designed Dougram's Combat Armors and VOTOMS Armored Trooers, but he also designed THE Gundam and Brave series bots.
Kawamori is even broader, having done not only Macross, but also Gundam, a good deal of the toys that would become the Transformers, Armored Cores, the CGI Thunderbirds series, AND FASA HAD HIM REDESIGN BATTLEMECHS FOR THE JAPANESE BATTLETECH RELEASE!
Hell, here is a great quote of his I found double checking that last part;
“In the world of animation, there are often instances where there are vehicles that are impossible to take flight but are somehow still able to go airborne. However, as I was once someone who wanted to become a mechanical engineer, I always want to approach these things with a greater degree of realism. So that means that in terms of the mechanism, I actually want them to clearly exist within the design and not just for show. This is especially important when you then make toys of that design, as all the necessary parts from the anime are then present on the toy.”

>>96261160
>Why should I like all the tropes of mecha anime like transforming Robotech type mechs
Because the guy who created those designs put a hell of a lot more thought into them than you are!

>>96261584
As long as they exist LAMs are everyone's problem. They're shit and don't fit into Battletech and no argument will ever convince me otherwise. All LAMs and LAMfags must go for Battletech to be good again.

>>96261736
No anon, YOU are the problem.

>>96261736
Someone can't handle the PEAK of battlemech technology.

>>96261584
Fascinating. I didn't know about the movie trilogy edits. I do remember feeling a good bit of whiplash from the White Base crew worrying about water and salt rations to the modular Core Block scenes and the G-fighter, and figured that there must have been some sort of order from on high to include them. I'll have to look into the movie trilogy.

And I yeah, I get that the Fasa will sell LAM models for no other reason than money. I suppose it's why Gunpla and Gundam is getting wackier too. You can only sell Zaku and RX-78 kits so many times before people want more.

>>96261710
Nigger, for the last time, I do not care how "well designed" or "thought out" the transforming mech is. I do not care for it. This motherfucker could have designed, built, and mass produced an actual honest to god fully fictional Variable Fighter which the JSDF is currently using to blow up dams in Guizhou province, and I would still say that I don't want it in Battletech.

>>96261812
>the modular Core Block scenes
Actually that was one of the series better ideas, just poorly executed for toyetic reasons.

>I would still say that I don't want it in Battletech.
Then you clearly don't want BattleTech!
Go play War Robots or whatever walking tank franchise you think is "realistic"!

>>96261812
>Nigger, for the last time, I do not care how "well designed" or "thought out" the transforming mech is. I do not care for it. This motherfucker could have designed, built, and mass produced an actual honest to god fully fictional Variable Fighter which the JSDF is currently using to blow up dams in Guizhou province, and I would still say that I don't want it in Battletech.
NTA but reading through the thread, you're kinda proving his point?
All the arguments against LAMs are usually pretty much strawman. Once you get passed the usual buzzwords the base of the argument of argument anti-lamfags is "I don't like them so nobody should be allowed to use them."
It doesn't matter to you if they were in the game since the beginning, it doesn't matter to you that they came from the same source as all the other mechs, it doesn't matter to you that they existed perfectly fine in the game without overshadowing the Mechs you like just fine, it doesn't matter that any argument over realism goes out the window the moment you defend the existence of two story robots that can do back flips, none of it matters.
The simple fact of the matter is you don't like them, and rather than just not using them, like you would any conventional mech you don't like, you'd rather cut them out of the game entirely even at the expense of the people who like them and play with them in their own groups entirely seperate from yours.
And that kind of mindset, over something as innocuous as a game about fighting robots of all things, is really fucking shitty.

>>96261397
looking good m8

>>96261860
For the last time, realism has nothing to do with it. It is entirely about the feel of the mech and its combat. A mech is unrealistic. FTL travel and communication are unrealistic. But that is a concession we make for the awesomeness of mechs and the Battletech universe. I like Battletech. It is YOU who have denigrated and expressed contempt for the more commonplace Battletech designs of non LAM mechs, it is YOU who wants to take a fairly unique medium in mecha genre and make it less distinct and more like existing properties such as Robotech. It is YOU who don't want Battletech.

Some people say that all LAM enjoyers are faggots. I don't know if that's true. But what I do know is that YOU are a faggot, and you will unironically do LAM apologists a tremendous favor by fucking off and never coming back, so that LAM enthusiasts are not degraded by association with you.

>>96261883
>And that kind of mindset, over something as innocuous as a game about fighting robots of all things, is really fucking shitty.
Indeed.

>>96261907
Fucker my favorite Mech is the Blackjack.
Your the one setting up LAMs as strawmen who are only guilty of doing things you don't like, for reasons you've still not properly articulated!

>>96261812
>This motherfucker could have designed, built, and mass produced an actual honest to god fully fictional Variable Fighter which the JSDF is currently using to blow up dams in Guizhou province, and I would still say that I don't want it in Battletech.
Too fucking bad. Transforming Mechs are just as much of a part of Battletech as House Davion. You don't see faggots arguing to eliminate House Davion from the setting, do you? You don't get to tell someone else they're having fun wrong.

>>96261907
Nothing about the concept of a mech is unrealistc.
>it is YOU who wants to take a fairly unique medium in mecha genre and make it less distinct
You side with a malicious dev who has done nothing but attack the foundation of battletech and deteriorate the setting as a whole. You're a foreign invader, your dislike of LAMs is one symptom of that.
>I like Battletech.
You like "battletech" in the same way someone who likes the sequel trilogy likes "star wars".

>>96261883
I have never said that BT mechs should be able to do backflips. Being roughly as agile a standard human =/= the incredible acrobatic agility.

I will admit that because that particular anon was being a massive faggot, I allowed myself to get mad at the Internet and overstated my position. I don't think LAM's should be totally cut. I personally don't like them and will not use them in normal play. But if people want to use them in custom homebrews, or special campaigns, like the aforementioned Logan Prime anon, that's fine. What I don't think should happen is giving them a central role in the setting. And in my experience, there is a group who do not, as you say, keep it sectioned off in their own groups. Hence why I got heated. That was probably retarded. Oh well. Such is life on /btg/

>>96261917
Oh really, I'm surprised. I thought you hated "bumbling hunks of "metal" that are both barely mobile AND STILL clipping into themselves." Because the Blackjack belongs in that category as opposed to the elegantly designed Robotech mechs you praise.

I have told you repeatedly why I have the position that I do. You have ignored it entierely to whine about how I should apricate desgins from other mecha more than I do. I'm done wasting my time on you. I'm going to go to bed and tomorrow I will paint some mechs.

Hey, I'm pretty knew to battle tech and I had a question.

What board/map size is the standard?

Me and my friend are playing a 4 v 5 at 10,000 BV, clan invasion era.

He has
>2 king crabs
>1 bane 2, upgraded gunnery
>2 wraith T1's

I have
>2 rifleman IIC's, with upgraded gunnery
>1 Phoenix Hawk II-C
>1 Atlas AS7-K

He's doing ComStar and I'm Wolf's dragoon's.

He wants to play on four map sheets instead of 2. He says two is too small and makes it so ranged Mechs don't have to move or participate in the game. I've heard some people say that you play one map sheet for four Mechs but I'm not sure what's the standard. He also said he doesn't want to have an advantage with his wraiths. I've seen other people say that larger maps favor ranged and fast Mechs too much for kiting and he'd actually have an advantage. Partially though I don't want the game to take forever more than anything which is why I'm hesitant to play on four maps.

I'm fine with playing on whatever is the standard.

>>96261935
>You don't see faggots arguing to eliminate House Davion from the setting, do you
As a Taurian fan that's honestly exactly what I hope for on the daily.

>>96262027
>What board/map size is the standard?

There isn't one. Ok, quickly:

Playing 1 map per 4 Mechs is a common rule of thumb, but putting 4 maps down for a lance on lance game is still well within SOP. The real question is WHICH maps. If he's asking for 2 extra maps so he can take 2 box canyon or heavy woods maps, then he's trying to rig the game. If he's fine with you picking or rolling for the extra 2 maps, then he's not being unreasonable. And honestly, with you having 8x cLPLs with good gunners, on a 2 map game, you can move to the middle of the playing area and hit *every hex* on the playing surface accurately unless there's intervening terrain. You already have an advantage by virtue of playing on only 2 maps, so playing on 4 maps allows him to maneuver a bit outside of your 40-hex wide engagement envelope.

>no further Levsposting coming; I don't have a relevant image anyway and just wanted to share a nice pic from GenCon

>>96261955
Man, if you get this heated over people playing canon games of battletech according to the rules and writing, just wait until the flood of people playing with homebrew rules for those gundam miniatures start rocking up.

I firmly believe with some of these older grogs, we're actually going to see someone get so mad that they die.

>>96262064
Are the maps you play on supposed to be rolled for? I'm not sure how that works.

Honestly I didn't want to bring double Rifleman 11C's I only did because he was bringing two wraiths and wanted me to figure out a way to deal with this setup. (He bluntly encouraged me to try and counter pick him because he's confident in his setup.) Though I'm bringing the Phoenix hawk II-C simply because it looks really really cool.

But yeah, I'm not sure how map picking works.

>>96262064
Have there been any important or interesting announcement/reveal at thr GenCon?

>>96261955
>Oh really, I'm surprised. I thought you hated "bumbling hunks of "metal" that are both barely mobile AND STILL clipping into themselves." Because the Blackjack belongs in that category as opposed to the elegantly designed Robotech mechs you praise.
I never said I hated them!
That's your cognitive dissonance, same as your pathological fixation on referring to the Macross designs as "Robotech".
I can however recognize the shortcomings of the Blackjack, specifically it's barn door torso being a gigantic shot trap, but that doesn't mean it still can't be useful.
But I like Combined Arms; I hate Mechs being "Invincible Gods of the Battlefield" because it simplifies things too much.
BattleTech is broad enough that it can have transforming Plane Mechs and Dudes with Gun Arms, the latter actually being a hard counter to the former because the former sacrificed Arms and Armor to turn into a plane.

So while you mald at a VF-1 Valkyrie fighting a Crab Gunner, I'm anticipating the scenarios where the mad lads in the Crab Gunner win that fight.

>>96262064
Why would box canyon or heavy woods maps help him?

>>96262128
They help the wraiths genius

If you can't figure out why heavy woods maps would help wraiths then your too stupid to play this game

Why is all the new art bloated, fat and gay?

>>96262115
Since when is the blackjack's torso a shot trap. Do you even know what that word means?

>>96262177
>Since when is the blackjack's torso a shot trap.
I mean this is going by the MWO model I posted, with those weird indents right next to the cockpit.
The CGL models do a bit better, making those vent sections more convex than concave, but that still creates a negative space to catch bullets with.

It's also, again, really broad, tall, and doing nothing to reduce its target silhouette.

>>96262175
So it's more relatable to the player base of Alpha Strike.

>>96262205
It's overwhelmingly being shot by lasers and explosives that don't care about angles, projectiles almost never deflect, conventional shot traps are irrelevant.

>>96261426
>and an unhinged lust for the clans and shit writing(I repeat myself).

Herb actually hated the Clans. He tried to kill them all but got too much pushback from players and other devs, so he had to settle for killing the Homeworlds "in order to return focus to the IS", even though he didn't have any problem with stirring random shit up in the Deep Periphery during the Jihad.

New thread initialized.

>>96262268
Reactor, online.
Sensors, online.
Weapons, online.
All systems nominal.
>>96262268

>>96261394
OH NO!? HERB IS A FAGGOT WHO SHOULD BE IGNORED AT ALL TIMES! WOW! THIS IS TRULY BREAKING NEWS!

>>96261736
LAM's are neat. go get fucked.

>>96261917
AND not only do you have the BJ-0 series of omnimech blackjacks to keep the model useful forever... the standard BJ has a clantech refit.

"Blackjack C
A Clan-tech refit, equipped similarly to the BJ-2. This variant carries a large pulse laser in each arm, and a Streak SRM-4 in each side torso. The ammunition for the missile launchers is carried in the left torso, protected by a CASE II system - the 'Mech also sports double heat sinks and ferro-fibrous armor. BV (2.0) = 1,639[22]"

>>96262255
That's surprising, everything he wants seems to benefit the clans exclusively.
>hates LAMs
>clans are the top LAM haters of all time
>hates warships
>clans keep their warships and it's one of the biggest reasons they can bully the the warshipless great houses with impunity
>destroys the homeworlds
>well I guess now the clans(who aren't allowed to lose) can only do shit in the IS now, which means they have to conquer the inner sphere

>>96262175
What an absolute unit.

>>96257556
i will not touch that wannabe slophammer garbage
faghammer needs to die a quick death

>>96260816
make it you fucking faggot
Christ, what happened to being a fucking man. why do modern fucking niggers need to buy everything
fucking consumer ghouls...

>>96260266
Bases will look out of place the second you play on a biome that doesn't match them.