Thread 96338148

About to Die Edition
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>Thread Question:
How did you die? Or better yet, what was the most glorious and/or pathetic death across all of your characters?
(Also, make news threads you fucks)

>>96338148 (OP)
>How did you die?
enslaved by a demon (not really death but end of game regardless)
hull breach in the deep umbra
backstabbed by a shadowlord player for no fucking reason
car exploded
didn't see that city gangrel or assamite (never learned which one) and just ate over 7 agg damage out of nowhere
another explosion
and most recently we (char gen traditions mages) got sacrificed by a verbana nephandus(?) master mage because another player really wanted to see the lilith stuff! i swear wicca witches...
>most(...)pathetic death across all of your characters?
probably my first vtm game decades ago where i summoned a elemental and rolled so bad that i not only lost control but was also killed by it

>>96338148 (OP)
I got punched through a wall into a car. Fucker was using Burning Wrath or something like that too.
Not that I blame him, I was playing a semi-feral Brujah.

>>96338148 (OP)
A hunter in our group made a dust explosion in an old sawmill and took out a (wounded) werewolf with him.

>>96338148 (OP)
>How did you die?
My Wraith was slowly killed by her mother. A typical case of Munchausen by proxy.
The game hasn't started yet but I'm hyped.

Thing Mage should have done:
>Made it so you could also end up with a Calcified (Threat NULL) or Cracked (Marauder) Avatar not just an Inverted one, and each of those comes with their own 'Unique Problems (tm)'
>Cracked Avatars: Quiet is accrued much quicker and it's more expensive to get rid of it.
>Calcified Avatars: Your usage of Dynamic Magic is identical to Threat NULL Dynamic Magic and there's nothing you can do to alleviate this.

>>96338567
threat null is in general under used

>>96338148 (OP)
The short story that was printed next to this picture. What did White Wolf mean by this?

>>96338641
Pentex isn't in it for just the money and the true believers of the Wyrm aren't afraid of dying.

>>96338148 (OP)
The most retarded way one of my characters got killed is how he offended the fate.

>>96338700
How did that happen?

>>96338752
He talked to a personification* of Fate and asking about what is the point of Fate enforcing group if everything is predetermined. After that I escalated for no real reason leading to the death of touchstones and my character, he died 7 times because of Contract.

>>96338792
What the fuck

>>96338810
I asked myself the same question soon after the event, so did the group.

>>96338864
Your st sucks.

The Tremere really aren't kindred, they're just something adjacent like the kuei jin. Still 'vampires' in the real world sense, undead things that drink blood and can't go in the sun, but they aren't really related to Caine. They didn't just embrace themselves or else they'd have inherited the clan curse, they magically reengineered God's curse and ported it over to make themselves something else. They don't even have a real curse, their stand in for it is something self imposed.

>>96339079
>The Tremere really aren't kindred, they're just something adjacent like the kuei jin. Still 'vampires' in the real world sense, undead things that drink blood and can't go in the sun, but they aren't really related to Caine. They didn't just embrace themselves or else they'd have inherited the clan curse, they magically reengineered God's curse and ported it over to make themselves something else. They don't even have a real curse, their stand in for it is something self imposed.
Best lore, never liked that serial diablerie shit, they should've been the self-made alchemists all along.

What's a spicy in-setting take a character you have played has? Out of character setting discussion often tends to gravitate towards orthodoxy or speculation. To give an example.
>If there is any truth to the Noddist myth of Caine, then Caine is possibly the most pathetic vampire to have ever unlived. All of his accomplishments were the result of his God-granted immunity. He abandoned his childer when the flood struck, then had the gall to judge his descendants when he returned. He still hides to this very night, refusing to take responsibility for his descendants, refusing to rule, he is even too weak to seek an end to his curse. Yet he will again return at the end of days to judge us, after he spent all of human history refusing to do anything to prevent it.

>>96339079
>They don't even have a real curse
Anon, clan curses tend to be ironic punishments. The tremere "clan curse" is that they lost access to mortal magic forever and are stuck with shitty discount sorcery for vampires. It takes a level 10 thaum ritual an entire year to replicate what a mage with forces 3 could do in an hour.

>>96338148 (OP)
Technically not a death but my Sabbat Ventrue got stuck in the Umbra, physically.
After 2 solo sessions where I couldn't go back to Earth, I decided to let it be.

>>96339692
This doesn't seem very sensible as few of the curses could be considered ironic.

Is it just me or does Curseborne kind of suck ass?

>>96340033
>Curseborne
is it even released?

Bubasti bros it's so fucking over...

>>96340077
Why is it over? You are the number one sex pet for 47,6% of mages, 59% of sorcerers and 31,2% of all Tremere!
Great numbers!

>>96340071
There's an ashcan they're selling for 5 bucks

>>96340110
ah yeah, you're right
so what is it you feel sucks ass?

>>96340100
>Being domesticate as slaves to mages is an unironic upgrade for most fera
I don't even know how to joke about this, it's both too sad and too much of a joke on its own.

>>96340077
I will volunteer to repopulate the Bubasti

>>96340077
I have to wonder why the followers of set never made a revenant bloodline out of the bubasti animal kinfolk in their possession. Corrupting an entire tribe of fera into being "of Set" for the rest of time is Absolutely something they'd do.

>>96339079
Tremere would be far less of an oddity in Requiem where individual clans have various potential origins.

>>96340198
I feel like most of them have forgotten that they even have those ghouled cats. I assume messing with the werecats is pretty low priority given how many pies the clan has their grubby little Egyptian paws in.

>>96340233
Anon, the followers of set are actively pimping out the ghoul-cats to desperate bubasti. The kinfolk prostitution ring is an active business, not something they grabbed and forgot about.

>>96340170
Aside from the unbearable Constantly In-Character narrator, all the monsters or lineages feel like knock-off versions of whatever they are.
Like it refuses to actually do vampires or werewolves or whatever, it has to be this other weird thing that you could mistake for a vampire or a werewolf if you squinted.

>>96340284
I see, it does seem lame

>>96338567
can't wait to have my calcified avatar magic get noticed by some Void Engineer surveillance algorithm leading to me being vaporized on the spot

>>96340284
So they have the zombie franchise syndrome where everyone refuses to call them zombies and goes for "Walkers", "Infected", "Shamblers", "Biters"

>>96339079
>They don't even have a real curse, their stand in for it is something self imposed
By this logic, wouldn't caitiff also not be kindred? I think your headcanon is pretty shaky anon.

>>96340594
I mean, a lot of Kindred would agree. They're not called caitiff because the other vampires respect them as peers.

>>96340609
Ah yes, because the truth is determined by populist sentiment and not immutable characteristic of the universe.

>>96340722
>the truth is determined by populist sentiment
In WoD, literally yes

Hello young cainite. I need you to fetch me twelve werewolf dicks. The reason is too esoteric for you to understand. In return, I will grant you a magickal artifact. Will you accept my quest?

>>96340856
You would need a dozen young cainites to fetch even one werewolf dick. Something about this stinks.

Welp, my state is being hit with "child safety" laws next month, the official indicator that you're living in a failing shit hole, so it's likely 4chan will end up being blocked. Anyway, this recent shift to a world-wide nanny state, how would you convert this into WoD? My best guess for MtA, the NWO is making a huge push against the Cult of Ecstacy and the Virtual Adepts, and the Syndicate is going to picky-back off of it for more data collection to increase profit (and the Nephandic cult within the Syndicate will continue to feed the spirit of control they've been cultivating, which manifests as AI).

>>96340856
Pisha's quests are getting weirder and weirder.

>>96340759
No, that's tradition cope and you know it. Their consensual reality theory has so many holes in it that it makes switch cheese look impenetrable by comparison.

>>96340925
>will continue to feed the spirit of control they've been cultivating, which manifests as AI
AI is ITX's baby and they're never giving control of it up to anyone.
More importantly, I think the recent 10 years of cultural meltdown was the inevitable paradox backlash from how much vulgar magic the NWO has been using since the 60's. The censorship all seems more like desperate damage control to try correcting course on a run-away trackless train.

BLACK TOOTH DID NOTHING WRONG
TOTAL AJABOID DEATH

>>96341060
>Killing the tribe dedicated to killing africans
And people wonder why the wyrm is out of control.

>>96341060
AAAHHH! GAIA. HELP ME!!!

>>96340893
>Something about this stinks.
Yes, well, I don't imagine werewolves wash down there very much, they're quite dirty creatures.

>>96340925
I actually doubt the Syndicate is behind it, their primary motto is "If we don't sell, someone else will"
New World Order would be my guess, they have been heavily pushing for increased control since Revised days.
Plus the Syndicate is fully against DRMs, anti-net neutrality bills and increased surveillance. All of which NWO pushes.
(In surprising ways, The Syndicate continues to be based)

>>96341356
>The Syndicate continues to be based
It's even funnier when you remember this is the de facto convention the writers seeth about.

>>96340100
Bubasti are also the only fera that get a +1 to appearance in their glabro equivalent form. I headcanon they look like goth catgirls.

>>96340925
It's the technocracy exerting tighter control to ensure no shred of supernatural information can spread

>>96341701
Punk catgirls are better.

>>96340925
I'd say a collaboration between NWO and Iteration X against the Virtual Adepts and Etherites. The child safety stuff is only a pretense, the Ecstatics probably wouldn't even be involved. End goal here would be locking down the digital web entirely and booting out the traditions. NWO care more about the control and dissemination of information, IX care more about the control over the digital web itself. I'd imagine most of the other conventions being neutral to supportive about the maneuver, the Syndicate could piggyback off the data collection like you said, but it has basically no economic benefit.

>>96341701
>only fera that get a +1 to appearance in their glabro equivalent
Ceilican have that too. So its a competition between goth vampire catgirls and punk fairy catgirls.
>>96341736
>Average Ceilican

>Bastet are considered mystics
>have to get hedge magic with a merit and their path dots/rituals with freebies/xp
>meaning that they are dabblers at best and they know less magic than your average sorcerer apprentice
lol
lmao even

>>96341834
>have to get hedge magic with a merit
That's a W20 retardation. Read the bastet breedbook, sorcery is something they can do inherently in other editions.

>>96341956
I never really understood the difference between progenitors and etherites, because it seems like either would say that kind of stuff.

>>96341966
>Progs
>Bwaahh! The ethics office won't let my eugenics project go live. I'm gonna sneak more DNA altering tech into vaccines out of spite!
>Etherite
>By Jove! Those dastardly fools at the ethics office won't let me give the masses the etheric-gamma radiation pills they DESERVE in order to activate the SUPER POWERS dormant in every man, woman and child! I'm gonna do it anyways!

>>96342009
Yeah like I said, pretty much no difference.

>>96341966
The difference is that etherites see science as a means of self discovery and refuce to actually learn anything about reality to instead obstinately impose their schizo-theories on the universe.
As unethical and monstrous as the progenitors are, they genuinely do it to learn about actual reality so that their inventions can outlive them and be used by all of humanity for the rest of time.

>>96342051
>actual reality
Found the materialist who still doesn't understand how Mage works.

>>96342095
>Doesn't know about earthly foundations or cosmological constants
Found the magefag that hasn't read their own books.

>>96341060
The Black Lion Emperor?

>>96342109
>M20 "lore"
lol

>>96342334
>Doesn't know both are in mage 2e
Magefags really don't know how to read.

>>96341784
>competition between goth vampire catgirls and punk fairy catgirls
I wonder which anons want more?

>>96342418
Nope. They first appeared in Revised, and while not nearly as reviled as the Avatar Storm, it's still among the stuff people ignore.

>>96342443
>it's still among the stuff people ignore
Hilariously ironic.
Personally, I can't see the mage setting actually functioning without some level of "Baseline" reality for the concensus to pain over. If everything is consensus, where did awakened will first come from to begin imposing "reality" on everything? You end up with actual paradoxes if you take what tradition mages say as gospel.

>>96341060
I wish the simba warriors victory over ajaba at any cost, until the very last drop of simba blood
I wish the ajaba warriors victory over simba at any cost, until the very last drop of ajaba blood

>>96340033
I like it a fair bit, but it's one of those things that has dramatically improved since its first showings. The Ashcan was worse than the manuscript, which has been massively improved in its revisions. I've gotten more interested and excited to play it as it's all gone on

>>96340530
Not as such. Primary terms can be that, i.e. the vampire lineage is the Hungry, but the Hungry are vampires still and do get called vampires. But I also don't really agree with other anon. A lot of the vampires are as you'd expect, but some of them are a little stranger. They're all undead, don't age, drink blood, don't like the sun, are better at night, can enhance themselves at the cost of folkloric weaknesses, they have feeding frenzies, and have magic that revolves around mental commands, controlling shadows, and manipulating life force. They're very obviously vampires as a whole, but some of the sub-types are a little more classic than others. You've got your power hungry business types, aristocratic nobles, and your iconoclastic rebels, but you've also got necromancers, knowledge hoarders, infernalist revolutionaries, and these sort of mercenary outcasts. They're not up to anything that'd look crazy in oWoD but what is a fairly large departure is that beyond the bloodlust each family has an additional thing they crave. Hearts, blood bathing, flesh, ghosts, memories, souls, and emotions, respectively. Although you don't have to have one of those, you can just need a lot of blood. They're still all blood drinking creatures of the night though, but they're just not stock standard vampires

The werewolves (Lykans) are in a similar place too IMO but the big difference there is the woofs are a family in the larger shapeshifting lineage, so the other families are other animals and themes. They do have an elemental association with thunder but are still the furry balls of murderous berserker rage as you'd expect

While not playable there are also zombies. They're called zombies

>>96338148 (OP)
My best death was running a 18 wheeler filled with fireworks into the 6th generation Tremere we hunted for 7 games
ST did a fake out of her climbing out of the ruins as the sun came up but not fast enough to avoid God's light
PC went down as a local legend kind of like ghost rider except instead of the penance stare it's being being slammed by 4 tons at 80mph

>>96339692
A clan curse is something that originates from Caine and is unique to that clan. The loss of an avatar is neither. The Tremere are a strange sort of third thing.

>>96342547
Caine was a caitiff by vampire standards.

>>96342535
nothing_stops_the_mail.wav

There any art pieces of a werewolf lifting/throwing a car or something similarly big and heavy?

>>96342500
how's the system?

>>96340077
Pictured: average bubasti

Can I get a non-schizo qrd on Mage: the Ascension? Is it any good compared to Vampire and Werewolf? The art is sick, but the chapter titles confuse me. There seems to be tons of hacking even though there's magic too.

>>96340198
They're kind of pushing it ghouling in the first place according to lore, since it tends to mess with both fertility and the capacity to bear Garou or Fera offspring (kin or otherwise). Full-on revenants would change things to Old Yeller in a heartbeat.

>>96340282
That should probably have dropped off over the ages, since any Bubasti with closer kin heritage can just sleep around a lot to negate the monopoly of the Setites on their feline kin.

>>96341784
Only in 2e. And that's because if a case of the author's paper-thin fetish concealment.

>>96342791
M20 is ass cancer.

Revised is more or less fine, but you need to roll Arete+Sphere for casting and back-port old progression costs and cost-reduction mechanics, cause you're getting nowhere otherwise.

>>96342814
>back-port old progression costs and cost-reduction mechanics
How did these work pre-revised?

>>96342791
The concept is very love it or hate it. Makes it highly contentious, and its own players will argue for hours what powers actually do what.

>>96342791
I strongly recommend not getting into M20. The book is terrible, the lore is bad and the rules are hidden among a sea of shitty fluff.
I strongly recommend checking out Revised for rules and mix stuff from 1st/2e for lore. Revised introduced this thing called the Avatar Storm, which absolutely gutted interdimensional travel and Spirit stuff, so a lot of people completely ignore it (myself included).
At the end of the day, most "experienced" STs and groups will run some frankeinsteined version mixing stuff across editions, and often from other splats too.
Anon here >>96342814 makes an interesting couple of suggestions for people who want to start having fun and actually see some advancement between sessions. While I think it seems a bit too lax, I'm not against it at all. Low Arete mages are a bit too prone to botching. I think I'm going to steal the idea for tonight's game, as I have a completely new set of players.

>>96342756
It's in Storypath Ultra. Basically the second of Storypath that's used in Scion 2e, or Trinity Continuum. I'm not a fan of Storypath but SPU is a lot better. It will be fairly familiar if you know WoD/CofD. Similar set of stats and skills, still a dice pool, and bits like that. It uses CofD style fixed success thresholds on the dice (8+), but oWoD style variable success requirements (0-5), and then it's got it's own secondary difficulty called Complications that are basically bad things that can be bought off with extra successes, or you can use extras on Tricks to do some extra stuff as well. It's a good core resolution system that the rest of the game leverages well. It's also got core systems for investigations and social interactions that are well made versions of those things. A lot easier to manage than CofD's versions of them too. Like CofD it also makes good use of a core set of status and area affects but they're, again, easier to manage and antagonists are similar to CofDs Horrors

For the PC option side of things each of the lineages get a handful of core mechanics, an opt-in monstrous temptation, and a forced bad thing (frenzy, etc.) should they run out of the magic resource. Before the revisions I think most of this stuff was kinda boring but it got improved a lot, see picrel for an example of the scale of those changes. Speaking of magic every lineage gets 3 Practices (Sorcerers get more), which are themed groups of 5 spells, and each spell is a discrete power but they also have 3 or 4 Advances each that you can spend XP on to improve the spell, or grant you alternate ways to use it. You might have an elemental blast, and then could upgrade it to do area affects, or change an existing area affect, or absorb one. You don't have to buy them in any sort of order either

I don't love all of it, it's using range band movement and the health/damage system is much simpler which I think loses a lot of the charm of either WoD but overall it's solid

>>96342791
Breaking the mold here:
M20 is not "bad", but it's very dense because they tried to cram as much as they could of 2 decades worth of lore (to the point that they had to make 2 extra books to put what couldn't fit) and on top of that they allowed Brucato to go ham on writing, which results in the core rulebook having so much fluff, it could stop bullets. The quality of the contents is very much YMMV, but regardless of that M20 is horrible for someone who's just getting into MtAs because of how much you have to go through. Definitely start with Mage Revised and check out M20 to see if you like what you read there.

>>96342971
thank you very much

>>96342870
1e had research downtime reminiscent of Ars Magica. 2e switched to discount rolls. Basic costs were less obnoxious as well, though mentors, grimoires and workshops were still crucial.

>>96342985
M20's objectively shit because it lacks integrity and consistency, is unbalanced as hell, effectively forces every mage to start with anchor spheres due to new anchor rules, and its layout is probably the worst of all roleplaying books (quite an achievement, considering some other games were deliberately designed to be shitty).

>>96342892
Revised is good for starting GMs specifically because it got the most comprehensive explanations and broadest selection of sample effects, and operates at "street' level, which is preferable for a beginning storyteller that doesn't know how to handle mages.

I sketched out an illustration of the Triatic Wyrm, displaying a sort of distillation of each head of the Hydra.

>>96343089
Neat stuff, gotta love the face of the guy in all 4s.

>>96343089
What did each head stand for again?

>>96338148 (OP)
Story teller threw a completely normal Chimpanzee at us
Four went in one came out
>Missing fingers

>>96343255
Yep, he's supposed to represent what the Wyrm does to people, what it reduces a man to.
>>96343277
From left to right: the Beast of War, the Defiler, and the Eater of Souls.

>>96343291
>at us
Hunters?

>>96343021
>discount rolls
I think there's still rules for this floating around revised and 20th... for tremere vampires. Because of course.

>>96342814
>old progression costs and cost-reduction mechanics
I think there's a revised supplement with xp-reducing libraries, but I can't remember it. I have this screenshot from the book, it's not from 2e mage or the original wod: sorcerer

>>96343311
>Yep, he's supposed to represent what the Wyrm does to people, what it reduces a man to.
Ahhh, that makes more sense than what I imagined.

>>96343317
Yes Hunters
Missing faces,genitals,fingers. We assumed it was a demon cult

>>96343089
>who's getting the best head

>>96343534
>>96343291
That's very Poe-tic of him.

>>96343534
Noice.
I'm ghouling a chimp tonight.

>>96343599
Too much effort, just pour your blood on some honey near a wasp nest and watch them eat people like airborne piranas.

>>96343622
Fucking ravnos wasp freak.
Keep your bugs, I'm getting a genital-ripping chimp to release on dumb hunters.

>>96340198
>>96342797
>>96340233
>>96340282
>>96340282
I like this idea. A new player was asking for an Egypt game, so I was thinking of sending their Assamite into the Dream Court to extract/trade for a Bubastis that got too uppity in the Setite kinfolk prostitution ring, and now they will be an example of why fighting a changing breed is a bad idea, even if it's the ghouled temple onahole.

>>96343653
The shifters aren't the ones being prostituted, it's their almost-extinct animal kinfolk. Bubasti shifters are just as allergic/immune to ghouling as garou are, it's just their animal kinfolk that're ghouls.
If the wild animals that the bubasti tribe are born from die out, the entire tribe loses the ability to produce shifters forever(including homid and metis), so the bubasti tribe are basically in a hostage situation where their only source of feline-born shifters is the immortal exotic pets of follower of set methusela.

>>96343642
Not to sound like a dick, even though I am one, why would you want a chimp ghoul besides the memes?

>>96343671
Anon, reread his post. The one bubasti isn't their standard product, it's a customer that got too rowdy and got the bouncers called on them. The temple-onahole thing is the punishment for pissing off the methusela holding his ancestors hostage.

>>96343675
Because they are clearly efficient >>96343291

>>96343653
>Ghouled Fera
The followers of set fucked-up hard core if they managed to accidentally ghoul this thing during their rape-as-punishment humiliation ritual.
Fera are normally violently allergic to vitae to the point its impossible to ghoul them, with only a tiny percentage having vitae tolerance. They just accidentally created an immortal, ultra-fast-healing, killing machine capable of learning both gifts And disciplines, then gave it a long list of reasons to make the local followers it's source of unwilling "donors"

>>96343682
I'm pretty sure the methusela was just a horny bastard who couldn't come up with a better idea to acquire and maintain cat girls around.

>>96341966
Progenitors focus exclusively on the sciences of biology. Genetic engineering, cloning, and creating lifeforms that are a slap to the One's face are their domain. You aren't going to find any research into quantum entaglement or mechas among their notes. They want to uncover all the secrets life holds, and they are going to read its diary. Things like "consent" or "ethics" only apply to the Unenlightened, who don't know any better. The Progenitors know better.

Etherites can focus on any field of weird science. And as for morality, the only Etherites who would share the Progenitors' view would be the Dissidents, or the Mad Scientists. Which, as the name imples, should tell you all you need to know.

>>96343696
The thing is that no one really believes that a ghouled werecat is going to achieve anything against a guy who just gets to mind control them with Elder Presence powers on top of a blood bond.
Something something Serpentis is also supposed to be a factor but that shit is so poorly kept together I can't be bothered to come up with a reason why it would help.

>>96343715
>>96343700
>>96343696
>>96343682
Maybe I can work that angle into the game. The methuselah just thinks it's funny since it can't do any real damage but a Follower also fucked up by trying to ghoul it. When my player asks if they take the prisoner, the serpents are happy to oblige. If they can catch it, that is. Or at least herd it away using their own vitae as bait.

>>96343762
That fucker is going to be frenzying every 5 minutes as well. Being ghouled means the vampire beast is a new factor the cat has to deal with, meaning they need to deal with Humanity and Virtue rolls.
An anon a couple threads back simplified the ghouled-shifter thing a bit:
>Any time a vampiric frenzy calling for a self-control roll is required, roll rage and subtract rage successes from self-control successes
>Lower difficulty on all rage rolls by -2 and when a rage frenzy is called for, oppose with a self control roll in the reverse of the above.
This generally works out to the shifter frenzying a shit-ton more often, but ironically falling into Thrall of the Wyrm less(which is lore-accurate to vampirism, vampires are immune to wyrm possession and fuckery)

I'm gonna get a bubastis and a ceilican to be my consors.
Maybe throw in some changelings too.
My Chantry is my harem.

>>96343787
That was the mage 2e standard before the writers destroyed every chantry in the avatar storm.

>>96343791
Well that won't stop me because I ignore the avatar storm.
Now bring in the Kiasyd consor. I am in the mood for fucking a goth lanky slut.

>>96343806
Vampires are cold and unresponsive even with blush of life anon. They need expensive magical assistance to get everything working right.

>>96343806
>goth lanky slut
He'll be ready in a minute, sir.

>>96343783
While I understand why someone would rule it like that, it seems more reasonable to just raise the difficulty to keep their shit together.

>>96343811
So are sexbots and you don't see the Etherites and VAs complain.

>>96343835
>raise the difficulty
That's not how frenzy works for shifters.

>>96343861
>So are sexbots
That's because if your etherite sexbot is cold and unresponsive, you have no right to complain. Go back to the drawing board and make a sexbot design that won't embarrass you in front of your cabal-mates.

>>96343572
He makes some pretty fun twists to spice up the game
Remember one time the whole game was derailed by a Bigfoot hunt
We found him but Bigfoot was just a big fucking monkey
Up until he vanished then threw a -4 rock at our redemption hunter
Then it turned into a chase with us fleeing back into the van
Costing us a shotgun, spare tire, fender,600$ and 80 pistol rounds
But we did get a dried Bigfoot scalp with unknown properties

>The ice queen bitch veteran of countless Sabbat raids against the Camarilla, frenzied one too many times, now she has permanent cat ears
Don't "nyaa" at her.

>>96344076
>The other beings in the pic are gangrel elders congratulating her for taking the first step on the path to ascending beyond humanity.

>>96340856
Why dicks only instead of the full werewolf?

>>96344233
>nu-zombie simpsons made Homer a cuck
Why am I not surprised

>>96344096
>local tzis quickly add feathers and fur to their bodies to “stay ahead”

I updated this one!

>>96344476
If tusks are teeth, why is a tusk coming out from just below his cheekbone?

>>96344535
It's a piercing.

>>96344543
Okay

>>96344476
Pretty good.

>>96344535
Secondary mutation.

>>96344076
>Chainsaw behind her back
that reminds me i used to play with a guy who when it was his turn to st would always give sabbat cainite's chainsaws, always, like every pack had atleast one chainsaw so we joked about them being standard sabbat issued gear and that we might be able to find where all those sabbat in our city came from if we looked into that and he got really mad at us

not because anyone actually took issue with the chainsaws mind you he sadly just turned into a prick and went on how you shouldn't joke during a wod game as that destroys the atmosphere

>>96342485
well if you simply accept that the Void Engineers are correct (which they obviously are) then everything from the smallest particle to the largest galactic supercluster generates consensus

>>96343089
is that a penis?

>>96340495
Well it was this or a Calcified Avatar meaning that when you perform Dynamic Magic the results of you doing so are not undone by Consensus going "Hey, wait a minute...".
The Actions of your Paradigm are permanently carved upon reality...and this is not a good thing.
Honestly this one is probably better at not being an "You Lose The Game Upon Awakening" downside for a Calcified Avatar.

>>96344688
The Defiler Wyrm is like that.

>>96343411
Naa, far as I know there aren't. Heining (Mage Revised dev) was hell-bent on players staying in the gutter forever.
The screen cap is from original Sorcerer book, quite superior to Revised sorcerer in some ways (though since it had to re-print paths from purposefully crippled books there's no real balance between).

>>96338148 (OP)
>how did you die
A Sabbat Tzimiscie witch used a relic and ritual to turn herself into a giant flesh horror to devour an entire city including all of us so we used a ritual to create an artificial sun which killed everything left in the city

Also another member of the coterie stabbed the witch with an Oblivion shard we got off another Sabbat occultist. The masquerade did not survive that timeline. But neither did we so it was someone else’s problem.

>>96343806
>Now bring in the Kiasyd consor. I am in the mood for fucking a goth lanky slut
>a goth lanky slut
>not sluagh
Trash taste.

>>96345005
Nta but first you say M20 Sorcerer sucked compared to Revised and now you say Revised Sorcerer sucks compared to OG Sorcerer.
At this rate, when will OG Sorcerer suck?

>>96345265
>when will OG Sorcerer suck?
It already does but that's mostly because the base system kind of sucks in some areas. The stuff specific to Sorcerer is fine but rarely does it do something worth mentioning.

>>96345151
No one gives a shit about Beast-light.

>>96344476
Noice!

>>96344476
Nice! I especially like the vampires's feeding detail.

>>96338864
Don't fuck with manifestations of Fate. They are known for their short temper and bloodlust. Fate decrees and you act as told. Unless you lost your fate, then you might as well just kill yourself.

>>96345265
M20 Sorcerer doesn't exist. Or rather it does, but it's STD garbage.

OG Sorcerer suffers from that 'had to faithfully reprint unnecessarily weakened' paths problem.

Revised Sorcerer is infested with irrelevant Mage's crap that it doesn't need, unnecessary complications to waste your time by gaming the system that wouldn't be needed if they didn't try to gimp the Sorcerer for no reason.

But Revised Sorcerer is the best compendium on weak-ass sorcerous and psychic abilities accessible to baseline mortals at the same time.

>>96345569
So what would an ''ideal'' Sorcerer book be for you?

Anyone here played the fangames?

>>96345569
So basically, you have an imaginary headcanon Sorcerer in your head that is superior to everything.
>>96345786
Leviathan is fun, Princess the Hopeful is a classic for a reason. Dragon isn't bad but also...eh, you could have called it anything else and it wouldn't have changed a thing. It doesn't feel like you are playing a Dragon.

>>96345829
>Leviathan is fun

>>96345851
>>96345829
Leviathan is a good source of lore for a Changing Breed but it is too clunky to play RAW.

>>96345851
I re-enacted Pacific Rim at the bottom of the ocean, that was fun. Though my ST definitely did his own rules for something. Plus I love the powers.

>>96345892
>too clunky to play RAW
>>96345908
>Though my ST definitely did his own rules for something
As I expected.

>>96345908
Nta, but what are the coolest powers they have?

>>96345761
>>96345829
I mean, original is entirely playable, and Revised needs only some trimming down of the crap that isn't particularly necessary even in Mage and straightening of mechanics.

>>96346006
I went for a straight Kaiju build. Get as much Size as possible, convert that size to Strength and fuck your opponents up. Plus some extra armor.

>>96346006
Of the top of my head, Eyes of Judgement have some of the more interesting effects.
>>96346136
It is playable but it's really easy to get bogged down. The 7 forms really don't add enough.

>>96344578
>archbishop makes haven under the local Home Depot

>>96345005
>Heining (Mage Revised dev) was hell-bent on players staying in the gutter forever.
He failed. In the disciples handbook, man accidentally provided an xp-subsitute downtime system that allowed a mage with library and mentor to progress from 0 to master in less than a year of downtime.
Fucker also forgot to nerf the "Instruction" skill, that allowed a mentor to give xp discounts to the person they were instructing. So mentor still did the exact same shit it always did, you just had to hunt through the books Library was nerfed forever though.

>>96345265
Revised sorcerer is great. The biggest problem is that it's missing 50% of the lore and mechanics it needs(like what happens to their path XP if a sorcerer awakens, is embraced, etc). Ignore the suggestion to port the missing rules from mage revised(because they aren't there) and instead pull all missing mechanics and backgrounds from OG sorcerer(which includes actually useful library/mentor mechanics).
>>96345569
>unnecessary complications to waste your time by gaming the system that wouldn't be needed if they didn't try to gimp the Sorcerer for no reason
The hilarious part is that that unintentionally buffs the shit out of a lot of things. Enchantment used to require your lower-case-t talismans have specific timeframes they only work during(like night, summer, the full moon) and have some level of curse or limitation. Rev enchantment doesn't require any of that shit unless you botch the roll, because they only copy/pasted half the enchantment rules from OG sorcerer.
You get similar hilarity when you look at how the aspect, teamwork, resonance, mana, ritual, and extended casting rules interact. Revised Sorcery may be nerfed to hell in terms of fast-casting, but they accidentally made it so that it several times more powerful with prep-time than any other edition. A prepared sorcerer is equal to a prepared mage of similar xp.

>>96346274
>yorak's grand grand grand grand grand childe and the home depot of flesh

how are the htr video games? i never seen anyone even talk about them

>>96346456
If they were any good people would be talking about them. People still talk about bloodlines for a reason.

>>96346517
thought so but also thought that asking couldn't hurt

>>96346428
Laugh all you want, but he’s ascending into something greater.
Probably.
Maybe.

>Fucker also forgot to nerf the "Instruction" skill
>Looks up instruction
>Mentor rolls Manipulation+Instruction(Difficulty 10 - Student's intelligence): Each success is 1 free xp point for the student to spend on the ability/advantage they're being instructed on.
>Each roll is 1 month of instruction
Explains why a sorcerer can go from mortal to path 5 at character creation. One semester at hermetic hogwarts is free xp during downtime.

>>96346456
The first game's really unpolished, full of bullet sponge bosses who will kill you with hitboxes that don't line up with their animations until you figure out you can use melee to stunlock most of them. Wayard's a lot more polished but still not great, it also introduces mandatory backtracking and scavenger hunts. Haven't played Redeemer.

>>96345516
Thanks! I felt it was important, not only to show off the monstrousness of the vampiric nature, but also so that the boiling rage of the werewolf make more sense.
>>96344688
Yep! And a vagina dentata. I picked that to represent the "fecundity" of the Deflier, its constant self-fertilization to produce the legions of children that then go on to defile in turn, and make the world more appealing to the Defiler.

>>96345569
>>96345761
>>96346427
>ideal sorcerers
I use [9 - path rating] difficulty for sorcerers and mages (properly stocked and prepared workshops/ritual chambers reduce the difficulty, instant casting increases it),
remove willpower costs and splat inferiority restrictions,
allow some ritual/aspect fuckery for paths that lack them on case by case basis,
cap the starting paths at 3 dots and dangle experience-reducing books as single-use rewards, and mentors as more lasting, but more demanding arrangement.

>>96346720
Honestly seems kinda overpowered. It makes power accumulation for mages and sorcerers exponential, and I don't understand the logic of a system where creating new life from scratch being easier than just sensing life.

You guys might as well make your own fangame, because that doesn't sound like Sorcerer at all.

>>96346743
Don't lump all sorcererfags and magefags together like that. I just like fangirling about rev-sorcerer.

>>96346534
From what I have seen they are fine but pretty basic, leaving pretty much no room for discussion besides the general "this is the vibe the ttrpg is also supposed to have"

>>96346769
>Don't lump all sorcererfags and magefags together like that.
But they're both cancer.

>>96346741
The system where a master of the path or sphere and someone who just learned it finds things equally difficult, the system where a master of, say, Hellfire is more likely to botch and kill himself than a beginner is the one that lacks all logic, desu.

Roll Arete + Highest Sphere used
Difficulty: 7 if coincidental, 8 if vulgar, 9 if vulgar with witnesses
Apply modifiers. Minimum diff 3, max 9. Anything above 9 requires extra successes.

Simple as.

>>96346804
>he system where a master of the path or sphere and someone who just learned it finds things equally difficult
Anon, masters have a higher dicepool than beginners. That's the entire function of the storyteller system for literally everything. A guy with expression 1 has the same difficulty writing a book as another guy with expression 5, but the latter guy will get more successes thanks to a higher dicepool.
Your homebrew is fundamentally broken.
>the system where a master of, say, Hellfire is more likely to botch and kill himself than a beginner
That's not how that works. Difficulty for sorcery is determined by how hard the spell your casting is. If you're trying to cast a fireball that hits everything in a 50-foot radius, its at a higher difficulty than casting a fireball that only hits one target. Having hellfire 5 isn't what increases the difficulty, it's using a level 5 aspect.

>>96346787
Get better bait. Low-effort shitposting is cringe.
If you want to piss off magefags, at least put in the effort of pissing on the massive plotholes of their precious setting.

>>96346883
The massive plotholes are what makes the setting precious

>>96346906
That's why pissing on them is so effective for ragebait.
The lowest hanging skub war is consensual reality vs foundational reality. The contradictions between books in the same edition alone are enough to write 5 distinct settings.

>>96346864
It's fundamentally better, and works perfectly in practice.
>masters have a higher dicepool than beginners
Sorcerers use ability+attribute, which, with the beginners, can be well better than master's, especially if the master started losing traits to age. Mages use arete, which is entirely unrelated to their sphere proficiency. A mage with a particularly pushy avatar can reach high arete before he learns a given a sphere, and he will be far better than someone with a higher sphere rating.

>>96346941
>Sorcerers use ability+attribute, which, with the beginners, can be well better than master's
If this is happening, your ST is a doormat. Characters shouldn't have abilities higher than 3 at character gen and master npcs should have dicepools of 8-10 before buffs from their paths.

>>96346941
>It's fundamentally better,
I call bullshit. Your system is a fast-track to gamebreaking bullshit.
Not even from players intentionally trying to break the game either, just as a consequence of exponential power increase.

>>96346883
>le bait
I'm being serious. Magefags are cancer, sorcererfags are cancer. They should be banned on sight here and shot on sight IRL.

>>96344233
So, what splat is Homer?

>>96347104
Changeling or fomori. The cartooniness of everything and his inate resistance to major dangers like radioactive waste indicate this.

>>96346963
I am the ST. Now, I prefer to limit supernatural power ratings to 3, at least with beginning characters,
>Characters shouldn't have abilities higher than 3 at character gen
but fuck off with that Achilli's mindset bullshit. A young, quick-learning, quick thinking, fit character in the prime of his life has more reason to have better attributes, talents and skills than a stooped old crone. Losing your shit over few fours, even a five or two on a player's sheet is stupid.
>master npcs should have
Beginners should struggle, masters should find things beginners struggled with rather easy. Should players try something really outlandish the Man will slap them down, though I will give them fighting chance and an escape avenue if they progressed far enough.

>>96347104
>>96347211
I got to say Fomorian but he is so monumentally stupid he doesn't even realize what he is.

>>96347251
>Beginners should struggle, masters should find things beginners struggled with rather easy.
That's the point of the normal system "Difficulties for beginners and masters are the same, but Master has high dicepool" in the normal storyteller system. You do highlight a great point that masters might have a smaller dicepool in some cases, but many path already fix that by making the dicepool [Attribute + Path Rating]. Making that the standard for all paths seems like it'd make more sense.

>>96347251
And the way that XP works doesn't help either.

>>96346427
>instead pull all missing mechanics and backgrounds from OG sorcerer(which includes actually useful library/mentor mechanics)
This is would cause exponential xp when you factor in the instruction skill in revised. A sorcerer with high mentor and library would literally be able to buy every path and knowledge in the game in the same amount of time as a college degree program.

>No, you see, your boyfriend was actually a monster only wearing the flesh of a man, which is why I bludgeoned him to death like I did. Anyway, you should go out with me now, so I can cleanse any taint he may have left on you. No, trust me, I’m the good guy here, I swear!
This is what Imbued expect the average person to believe.

>>96347434
Anon, this is literally werewolf 101 for dealing with an uninitiated kinfolk whose partner just went fomori.

>>96347000
Mate, you are in 4chan. All of us in reality should be banned on sight. Half of us grognards, the other half are nogamers but all of us are cancer.

Except for the drawfag, he is cool.

>>96347456
I miss when drawfags and writefags were more common in every thread.

>>96346845
Arete+Highest Sphere is based

>Counterpoint, Obtenebration has the straight up best ability across all Disciplines against Demons and other eldritch BS.
Found this when looking at the previous thread, can anyone explain why Obtenebration is so good at this?

>>96347468
That's because posting your shit here only gets you bad publicity everywhere else in most cases.
That and I know my writing well enough that it would only get a bad reaction here.

>>96347487
Vicente de las Navas de Tolosa's Holy Shield.
Is he a powerful servant devoted to his Demon Lord, with like Path of Bones 8? All of his actions are Difficulty 8 against your character.
And all actions against you needs a minimum success equal to your Obtenebration.

You can imagine how a powerful Lasombra Demon Hunter can make even vastly more powerful beings his bitch.

>>96347468
This site has generally just become extremely hostile to anyone who actually wants to make something instead of just be a contrarian/edgelord/boomer who moans that everything is too 'ironic' these days while simultaneously being a cynical, passive-aggressive cunt to anyone who shows a modicum of sincerity.

>>96347529
Holy Moly, That's overpowered as Fuck. Between this, True Faith, Golconda, and disciplines like Bardo, How In The Fuck did the evil vampires win so hard that they were able to create the current shit-hole that is WoD? Paladin-style vampires have literally every possible advantage.

Dreamspeaker here. My spider gf has been pressuring me to take Queen Ananasa as my totem so the two of us can have the same one. Problem is I've been saving myself for a cooler totem and I don't want to commit to that. What should I do? :(

>>96347529
Weirdly enough, this is an amazing power for infernalists, because it lets them bullshit the hell out of potential patrons.

>>96347778
>Tradition Mage
>Ananasi gf

>>96347713
Baali went full damage control and created the Angelis Ater to cuck the Lasombra out of spawning any more demon hunters.

>>96347713
because the vampires in control aren't usually infernalists. only the most recent sabbat regent was one and guess what? she got killed for it baali and friends never ever won a single thing in wod and the history of vtm is them being beaten up by everyone else

only exception being the setites, but even then they only win in crossovers and only because Set himself carried them

same is true for mages and only in werewolf are actual infernalists behind the current state of the game

>>96347778
Of prolly-will-eat-you bugs, patient Mantis is the superior totem.
t. Tremere who gained Mantis' favour after creating few dragomantids and getting expelled from Ceoris for it (so what if they ate two of Goratrix's whore apprentices, the rat bastard goes through them like trenchers anyway).

>>96347778
mind sphere should allow you to fix your girlfriend
>>96347936
>so what if they ate two of Goratrix's whore apprentices, the rat bastard goes through them like trenchers anyway
ah but you see! one was etrius' spy so both of them been pissed at you and meerlinda back then took every opportunity to try and make them work together on something

Put in some more on this one!

>>96347529
This power is overpowered as fuck and makes no logical sense. Why the hell does an Abyssal power and at such a low rating I might add, help against evils? Obtenebration is said to damn you and pull you away from God, in what world of darkness is it capable of manifesting holy protection?

>>96348244
Sick. Love your art mane

>>96348251
Theory: Probably borrows power from the DtF abyss to shield the vampire. The DtF abyss is able to completely negate the powers of angels and corrupt them into a lesser state, this combo discipline likely creates an "Armor" out of the abyss's anti-demon metaphysics.

>>96348259
Thanks!

So did god45 actually have a nuke?

>>96348310
The Lasombra abyss and demon abyss are completely separate places. Demons dunno wtf is up with Vampire abyss magic. The vampire abyss specifically seems to be made out of the void the demons forced away when they made creation, it’s not linked to the Underworld or the prison made from it.

>>96348244
I only just noticed that you made the corruption wyrm head an STD-riddled penis/vagina thing

There used to be a thing listing how each splat viewed the others and what they knew, where is it

>>96348344
>it’s not linked to the Underworld or the prison made from it
Lucifer himself disagrees with this. Read Days of Fire. Lucy specifically calls out oblivion, the DtF abyss, and the void god had the angels banish as one thing. Revised vampire also had references to oblivion in the various powers for obtenebration and abyss mysticism.
So yes, they most likely Are connected.

>>96348373
The actual books that exist outside of Demon disagree with this, as they simply are actively different in not just how they are depicted but how they work mechanically. Abyssal entities are simply plain Jane different than infernal ones, and I discard this book by being one guy’s fanfiction at the end of the game’s life that shouldn’t have been released because it makes no damn sense, but nobody left at WW noticed or cared.

>>96348373
>>96348490
Also to doubly mention that Oblivion works and acts differently than either of those other kinds of Abyss. It’s really just trying to look at a square, a circle, and a triangle, and say they’re a train. It makes no damn sense and doesn’t hold up under any amount of scrutiny. They can say whatever they want, but if it doesn’t make sense and breaks its own narrative I’m going to toss it out like the bad fanfiction it is. It does NO work to actually establish the three separate entities as something related except to say “yeah dude they’re toootally related” which is dogshit

>>96348490
>Abyssal entities are simply plain Jane different than infernal ones
Those "abyssal entities" were a giant question make until V20 starting giving abyss mystics the ability to summon shit that had never existed in the game or lore prior.
Also, are you sure you're not confusing other "Abysses"(like the WtA one) with the one I'm talking about. I'm not saying every abyss is one and the same, I'm saying the books are clear than the DtF "Abyss", oblivion, and the obtenebration "Abyss" are connected(at least pre-20th lore changes).

>>96348251
The same reason why Lasombra has some of the most True Faith users among vampires and even further has a special merit for it. Sometimes light blossoms among the darkest places.

>>96348630
Nta, Oblivion, Lasombra's Abyss and DTF's Void is 100 the same thing but I very much doubt Abyss where DTF demons held is among them. Not only it only contained Demons, which already disqualifies from the others, but also because they would have said "They banished us to the Void" straight away. Like, Demons aren't strangers to the Void. Slayers literally built the Underworld near it even after rebelling against Heaven. They would have said so.

>>96348737
>I very much doubt Abyss where DTF demons held is among them
Read days of fire. The DtF abyss is a neutered section of the void made specifically to house fallen. It's not the entire void.
An anon threads back compared it to a maximum security prison in antarctica. The prisoners aren't just being left to roam around with the polar bears, they're heald in their own manufactured section that's somewhere within the greater abyss.

>>96348737
Lasombra being both heavily religious and the leaders of the murder-rape vampire cult is still hilarious to me. They've got more to answer for than the fucking giovanni, but are somehow the most devout after the salubri.

>>96341736
Who are the most waifuable bastet kind?

>>96348800
>that's somewhere within the greater abyss
*that's somewhere within the greater void.
Saying the abyss sits somewhere in The Abyss will get confusing fast.

>>96348821
Bubasti and Ceilican are for the streets. A simba wife is not only loyal, but actively expects you to have a harem(she will look down on you if you don't or if you're a weak bitch though)

>>96348821
Its a matter of taste honestly. All werecats are loyal waifu, their litany has a double-whammy of "honor your word" and "honor your kin" that'll see any disloyal bastet losing renown like a bucket full of holes.

>>96348821
The 3 most waifuable bastet are the ceilican(rock'n'roll fairy catgirls), bubasti(vampire goth catgirls), and simba(muscle-mommy harem catgirls) as said above. They're the tribes that have an actual catgirl/catboy sokto form(bastet verion of glabro) that increases their appearance score.
The other bastet tribes don't come with the catgirl form or are qualmi.
Qualmi are catgirls like the waifu-tribes, but they don't marry or mate for life. They have a one-night-stand and then dump their kids on a "friend"(read friend-zoned). They also give you the full girlfriend experience of never speaking their mind and playing endless games you're not allowed to know the rules to and will punish you for not meeting an imaginary standard you don't know about(if you're a "friend", the people they fuck are one-night-stands as said above).
>TL;DR: qualmi are unironically all the worst traits a modern western woman can have all wrapped into one horrible package

>>96348355
I did that because the Defiler always struck me as the most "fecund" of the three. Producing many evil children.

>>96348800
Anon, I agree to that but the way you explain it is confusing. Let's simplify it.
We have the Void. Angels created existence from the Void. Oblivion is what Wraiths call the pull of the Void, starting from the Mouth of the Void at the bottom of the Underworld, which is basically the metaphysical bottom of existence. Lasombra draws from the Void. Fallen Angels were banished to a prison inside the Void, created solely to imprison them with nothing else.
There, done.

Also, Days of Fire is shit
(Technically, everything is a neutered section of the void.)

>>96348893
Look, I really want to say Bubasti but well...they are bitches of Set and I don't want my waifu stolen, sorry.

>>96348846
>>96348893
>>96348998
What about among all changing breeds?
Who are the best waifus among all of them?
I have a bit of a weaknesses for the corax.
Happy goths are cute.

>>96349133
Kitsune, foxgirls.
They never get minus Appearance. Their Crinos form is as attractive as their human form to humans. They don't cause Delirium at all, their ancestors didn't genocide humans. They are long lived, if not practically immortal at high rank. A Rank 3 Kitsune will live for 320 years (80x2x2). Rank 5? 1280 years. If they are a Legendary Kitsune? 2560 years.
They can also learn hedge magic like Bubasti! What's not to love?

>>96348833
>>96349128
"The Void" isn't a good name for primal anti-creation either. It overlaps in name with "The Void" of the ultra-deep umbra where earth's tellurian ends, strange outsider-beings live, and travel to other tellurians becomes possible, none of which has anything to do with the primal anti-creation, neverborn, or the Grand Maw.
Also, Fuck this cosmology.

>>96349195
>What's not to love?
The 90% chance of death for waifuing one and having kids. As much as they love you, they NEED to have kids to expand their race anon, it's a derective from both the white-faced-one and gaia.

>>96349133
The biggest problem with the corax is that they're absolutely telling their friends about all your embarrassing secrets and Will. Never. Just. Shut Up!
Rokea are for the streets.
Garou are pretty retarded even at the best of times.
Mokole are cool, but she Will outlive you and be heart-broken over it.
Nuwasa are very girl-bro, but they may be to girl-bro to wife for many people.
Dunno about the rest.

Who here remembers the Discord War of 2019? Where they were fighting over which Discord link to put in the OP

>>96349200
Mate, the Void is just one of the alternate names for Deep Umbra. People can just name different things the same.
(You don't even need to travel to Deep Umbra to travel to alternative Tellurians.)

>>96349247
>Discord

>>96349354
Yeah I know. But it was like 2018, maybe. I know I said 2019 but I think it kind of predates that. It's been a while.

>>96349133
The ananasi are a coinflip between absolute ride-or-die waifus and psychopathic bitch that's pretending to love you to complete her mission.
Your waifu chances go way up if you're a technocrat though. Technocrat's are the weaver's personal favored children and the owners of 90% of ananasi caerns(they operate on the reverse gauntlet rules of other fera, a deepstate lab is a gauntlet 2 caern for ananasi). The only thing stopping the technocrats from turning the ananasi into an eager slave-cast is the fact the conventions have no idea they basically have the entire shifter breed in a hostage situation simply by existing.

>>96349247
Truly the greatest of battles in the ascension war.

>>96349481
Ananasi and Mokole are the only sources of shifter Lolibabas

>>96343089
Amazing art!

>>96349730
When White Wolf used to produce Kino.

>>96344476
>>96348244
I love your art so damn much.

>>96338148 (OP)
How can a Toreador convince werewolves from tearing the Toreador while they drive their territory? They have to drive through the MidWest due to keeping a low profile and transporting a parcel.

>>96349911
They can't. Ride fast and pray you don't happen upon anything too hairy, bucko.

We are never getting another X by Night with Jason Carl, are we?

>>96349911
>96349911
How can a Toreador convince werewolves from tearing the Toreador while they drive their territory? They have to drive through the MidWest due to keeping a low profile and transporting a parcel.
IDK, but apparently you pissed off a janny somehow.

>>96343089
You remain one of the only reasons I still check these threads.

>>96338148 (OP)
How long until the Devs write something about the El Salvador gang crackdowns being a Hunter inquisition against Vampires?

>>96350259
I dunno, last time they tried it with the Chechnya gaynocide they got huge backlash.

Is drinking Malkavian blood safe?
As safe as drinking the blood of any kindred can be given the blood bond, anyway.

>>96350358
It makes their ghouls go crazy, idk if it would do the same for kindred.

>>96350358
What do you think?

>>96349195
Koto form counts as App 0 to anyone not acquainted with the supernatural.

What's your opinion on Nines?

He seemed ok, and without the issues Lacroix and Xiao Ming had. But he was not one of the people you were told you could trust, not like Mercurio or Beckett.

Could he have been the one to leak your location to the Sabbat when you first arrive in Downtown, just to make a good impression by foiling the ambush? Or did he really just happen to be there coincidentally?

Do we have any information about him elsewhere, like we have of Smiling Jack in LA by Night?

>>96350414
I dislike Nines because he threatens to beat your character twice in your first conversation with him in the Last Round even when you're being nice to him. Fits him being a Brujah but doesn't leave a good first impression
He isn't a person you can trust because he doesn't care about you, he's extremely into Anarch politics and thinks you can be an useful asset to the movement, IIRC he says this word to word. And hates you if you side with Camarilla
Unlike Mercurio who helps you even when you're on your way to kill his blood bond master and Beckett doesn't care about politics either way

>>96350459
Mercurio chose the unbondable merit at character creation because he's based

Can vitae do anything to inanimate objects?

I don't think they can be ghouled unless maybe if you are summoning and ghouling the spirit of that particular object (although idk if you can even blood bond spirits)

But it feels off for vitae to not do anything at all to the inorganic, even if it requires a rare discipline or something.

Or maybe I'm overthinking things and that's just blood thaumaturgy

>>96350414
>What's your opinion on Nines?
Raging berk, and too overtly politicised to be likeable.
>>96350459
>>96350513
Mercurio is solid, though. Not that competent since he got jumped by a bunch of mouthbreathing monkeys, and definitely not unboundable, but worth keeping for his loyalty, his domitors are ash anyway.

Strauss is also solid and based. I also liked Andrei even if he's deluded and monstrous.

>>96350559
>Can vitae do anything to inanimate objects?
Thaumaturgy! Paths like Elemental Mastery and rituals like Sanguine Assistant are what you're looking for.

>>96350559
>although idk if you can even blood bond spirits
No, but vitae is Tass. Spirits are more than happy to trade favors for what's essentially free essence. That's the entire reason old koldunism was even able to work. Nature spirits might hate vampires, but they're willing to ignore that for that sweet, sweet essence.

>>96339558
Got a guy who thinks it was Abel who was/is the first vampire, not Caine, and that the Beast is literal demonic soul-corruption, which is why vampires that lose the fight to the Beast become agents of 'evil' (in his eyes)

>be Abel
>bro just murdered you with a sheep jawbone
>fuckthisshit.mp4
>God is cursing out your brother, but you're still dead
>Guy appears
>"Hey, Abel, man, that sucked. Don't you wanna get back at him?"
>obviously
>"In exchange for your soul, I'll give you everything you could ever need to hunt him down, and the bloodthirst to do unto him as he did unto you."
>deal
>get returned to life, or something close enough
>have superpowers
>literal thirst for the blood of him and all his offspring
>hunt him and his descendants for the rest of forever

>>96350843
isn't that what the baali in the true black hand (claim) to believe?

>>96350559
too obsessed with his cause to be anything more then the guy you pretend isn't in the same room as you

So I joined this Mexican guy's Hecata V5 game and I'm ngl it's pretty fun. First session my Puttanesca stole some Samedi sicario coins that were pointedly left out in the Venetian hotel in Las Vegas, and my 13th gen Samedi coteriemate is now trying to cover for it with salt circles and talismans and shit, because these people are gonna fucking kill us over this if we get found out.

>>96350358
it is normal vitae for other vampires, BUT if you learn Dementation from it you either gain a derangement or have a discipline that can't be used without a derangement

I think I'm retarded pls help. I'm reading the Changeling v20 book, and I can't find where it states what a Kith's realm affinity actually impacts on a mechanical level.

>>96351496
>what a Kith's realm affinity actually impacts on a mechanical level.
Reduces cantrip casting difficulty by -1. The Arts section has a whole chart about what influences that.

>NPC "Totally-not" Neil deGrasse Tyson technocrat has a deep heart to heart with the cabal's Etherite in an attempt to get him deject and join the Union, even tries to sweeten the deal by offering him a high ranking position at a Void Engineer ship
>Etherite opens himself up
>Then fucking shoots him with his ray pistol
>"I will not betray my friends, not for a lab, not for adventure, not for a Dyson Sphere, not for the universe itself."
>Shoots him twice while he's on the floor for good measure
>Then activates his power armour to fly away
At least I know this guy isn't going nephandus.
But man that was cheesy as fuck. Are all Etherite players like this?

>>96351548
Ah so I am indeed retarded, thanks anon.

>>96351551
Honestly based Etherite.

>>96351551
not all but it's on brand: one of their main thing is that they are one of the few people in wod with actual optimism which can be expressed as cheesy heroism

You ever notice how the MEGA in the OP doesn't have HtV2e in it, just the kickstarter beta stuff?

>>96351551
>going nephandus
Only drooling retards and evil for the sake of evil clown are going nephandus.

There's no benefits whatsoever, and all your 'comrades' are almost bad as tytalli hermetics, infernalist choirboys and bahari verbena.

>>96351551
I mean, they are the ones that have unethical experiments as a monthly magazine and a significant chunk of the Tradition as amoral mad scientists.
They are cheesy retards and we love them for it.

>>96351724
Mind you these are quotes (paraphrasing) from the same character
>It is the glorious right of all children to own a pet velociraptor, and upgrade to a tyrannosaurus after they prove they're responsible
>Grave robbing for the sake of reanimation experiments is a perfectly ethical way for teenagers to earn money. Beats working at McDonalds!
>It's not a war crime if I don't get a Paradox backlash
>I destroy my enemies by making them my friends... and with molecular beam guns
>They tried to kill us with cyborg hitmen. Of course I allowed the Verbena priests to turn them into lambs and offer them to the gods... What? Yeah I stayed for the party afterwards. It was a lot of fun. They had this amazing feast with an immense supply of lam-oh shit...

>>96351804
I bet he is the favorite Etherite of the Ethics Council.

>>96351878
Sounds like a bunch of boring bureaucrats getting in the way of progress.

>>96348325
Yes.
>>96348244
Banging artwork my man.

>>96351650
The people responsible for the one of the Megas lost their password or something along those lines.

>>96352013
Shame no one's taken what we got and made an updated fork then. Ah well, one can dig through 4plebs archive if it's really needed, I suppose.

>>96338641
>Mr. Kiker
You can't be serious.

>>96352167
?
>Americanized form of German Keicher and possibly also of some other similar (like-sounding) surname such as Swiss German Giger and German Geiger or Kiecker.
>Shortened form of Karriker a surname of German origin or an altered form of one of its variants such as Kerker.

>>96352266
He is insinuating that Mr. Kiker is a reference to the anti-Semitic slur 'kike.'

Do you guys think the Wyrm is actually the good guy just trying to escape Malfeas to restore balance?

>>96352910
No, too much unnecessary harm has been done for that to make sense.

>changeling the lost has a thing called ‘the hedge’
>’goblin’ is the term for general hedge wildlife or something
But they didn’t think ‘hedge magic’ would be a good term for general hedge magic?

>>96352957
He literally broke into 3 prices out of sheer pain and desperation.
He might be insane but once he escapes he'll go back to normal.
The weaver doesn't get nearly enough hate imo she is actually the one at fault for everything going wrong.

>>96352270
I wonder what the origin of that word is......

>>96352910
Canonically, only if the Wyrm is freed before it breaks free on its own. It reverts the world to a blank primordial state, which isn't necessarily a good ending if you care about humanity and civilisation. If the Wyrm breaks free on its own, then it's so far gone that the only outcome is the end of life, if not the end of everything.

Note that this only applies to Werewolf the Apocalypse, as the Wyrm isn't a being of anywhere near as much cosmic importance in any other splat.

>>96351551
Holy mother of based

Superior Head Canon: clan names are loose, passive agreements for street identification that get updated every now and again. The actual clan identity exists in the stereotypes and paragons. The last time this changed was in the Roaring Twenties. That's why they all sound like biker gangs and reference turn-of-the-century culture. In the twelfth century, no one heard of "Ventrue" or "Tzimisce". (Some, like Gangrel, Ravnos, and Cappadocian, work as exonyms on a longer-term basis)

>>96353318
Any tribe can perform any other shifter's rites, the rank 4+ gifts that are the real loss. Shifters can only learn gifts outside their breed up to rank 3, gifts above that rank require too much of the native breeds spiritual and physical biology to function correctly when used by other breeds.

>>96352957
>unnecessary harm
The wyrm's goal is to destroy all of human society before it can sew the weaver's webs so densely it cuts off the spirit world. Gaia has recovered just fine from shit like snowball earth(wiped 99.99999% of all life) when other evolutionary dead ends were destroying the balance.
Honestly the Wyrn is using kids-gloves right now.

>>96353080
>Note that this only applies to Werewolf the Apocalypse, as the Wyrm isn't a being of anywhere near as much cosmic importance in any other splat.
Depends on how you look at things. "The Wyrm Breaks Free" could by the cosmic event that quietly sets off the Nephandi-Win scenario in Ascension for example.
One of Mummy's toj scenario is creating the same impenetrable spirit barrier that sets off the "Weaver Ascendant" apocalypse scenario and the "coming of the Sixth Age" KotE ToJ scenario.
There are a shit ton of plot threads left specifically so ToJ events can bleed into each other.

>>96353318
>Garou genocided X, forever fucking themselves over
Their entire history is a Mad Libs game with this sentence, over and over.

>>96351663
Nephandi are the biggest joke in wod. They sold their souls for literally nothing.
They're the people actually accomplished infernalists laugh at and use as examples of how not to be a dark wizard.

I remember hearing years ago that one of Pentex's subsidiaries is run by an alien. Is there any truth to that?

>>96353363
i think that was the idea, but then dark age vampire happened

>>96353470
Yet still they're developer's darlings that run the circles around and infiltrate every other faction, despite all that noise about how fundamentally wrong their soul, avatar, spirit is. Their head honcho, Ass-wad was wanked almost as badly as Tzimisce antediluvian.

>>96353521
Being fair thats because hes literally just Nyarlathotep, like a one for one copy except he was once human.

>>96353487
Huh, I know some of them ran by Vampires, an Imbued, a Demon, a Black Spiral Dancer but I didn't know about the alien.

>>96352910
Absolutely not. Maybe that might've been true once, but the Wyrm is hopelessly corrupt by now. Especially the Hydra, which is basically the Wyrm itself at this point.
The Hydra, in my speculation, doesnt even WANT the Wyrm to be freeded. The Three Brothers want an eternity of corruption and destruction, and the endless war against the Weaver. They're having too much fun to let it end.
So no, in short, the Wyrm is not a "secret good guy".

>>96353487
Not that I recall.
There's particularly retarded (probably the most retarded) sorcerer phony gang that worships ayylmaos. For some unfathomable reason Mage ToJ book writers decided to make those ayylmaos real and and an endgame threat, but they still even more retarded than you can imagine.

>>96353566
Except in the Weaver Ascendant scenario, in which liberating the Wyrm is the only way to achieve a "good" ending.

>>96353521
Which is even more hilarious when you know their lore.
Nephandi take their recruits from one of the rarest supernaturals on the planet(mages), pull almost exclusively from the most untallented and lazy of said previous group looking for easy power, are split into multiple factions that constantly undermine and kill each other, have an internal promotion system that'd make the klingons look level-headed, are hunted by every other faction from technocrats to marauders to werewolves to vampires, and have a paradigm so self-destructive that it actively Kills Them from hyper-paradox.
The original nephandi lore is that both the technocrats and the traditions have departments, not entire conventions or tradition, minor factions/departments dedicated to killing nephandi. They're so fucking self destructive that they're a minor side-quest in the ascension war.

>>96353566
>The Hydra, in my speculation, doesnt even WANT the Wyrm to be freeded.
That's not speculation, that's just the vanilla lore from book of the wyrm and the werewolf toj. Freeing the balance wyrm would destroy the triatic wyrm, which is why it actively sabotages the ananasi that're trying to free the balance wyrm.

>>96353487
Danforth Stern has a sci-fi worldview (he thinks the Wyrm and it's minions are aliens) but he isn't one himself.

>>96353668
Weaver Ascendant fails to take into account the massive fuck-off dyson sphere the technocrats have in reserve in case something like that happens.

>>96353769
Because Werewolf the Apocalypse does not care that much about Mage the Ascension, and Mage the Ascension does not care that much about Werewolf the Apocalypse. Each ToJ book only really cares about the splat that it is made for.

>>96353799
Some of the scenarios were built to bleed into each other... Mostly in the ToJ multi-splat book though.

>>96353713
yeah i always felt like nephanti been a minor problem till the end of revised where they started to take up more and more space

i wonder if that is some writers pet idea

There is a decent chance we are getting Bloodlines 2 trailer in like, an hour at Gamescom live stream and we will have guys playing Bloodlines 2 tomorrow.
Tell me your last predictions on how shit/good Bloodlines 2 will be.

>>96353866
shame gamescon sucks so much otherwise i would have gone there myself

>>96353866
At this point there's no choice but to expect it to be shit. With minor good strokes left by original developers before they were chased out, but shit, for the most part.

talk less about gay werewolf shit and more about vampire

no one likes werewolf

>>96353866
>announcement for a trailer for an announcement for a trailer for an announcement for a trailer for
ENOUGH ALREADY! JUST THROW THE TOWEL!

>>96353941
>implying vampire isn't the faggot splat

>>96353941
>Many people like and talk about thing anon doesn't like
>anon: Shut up! Only talk about thing I like. Nobody like thing you like!

>>96353941
okay i actually like the idea of demon possessed wrights from the latest book, but i hate for them to be the baali and i am not playing v5 but this sounds like a fun baali or otherwise infernal plot to make combat servants

so is there something like that in the older books somewhere?

>>96354035
vampire is for faggots, werewolf is for furries

>>96353866
generally bland and uninteresting except for that one thing (probably phyre or her femboy schizorenic hallucination) which is so dreadfully bad that everybody will shit on it.
the wod discord will defend it with all their might and will blame any negative reception on trolls if they even acknowledge it in the first place

>>96354058
There is a Wyrm draugr, one of few vampire fomorians whose bite turns people to zombies. Theoretically, a powerful one can embrace other vampires, turn them into draugrs and start zombie apocalypse.

>>96354058
Sure, there are rules for all sorts of possession.

Blood banes specifically prefer to drive the vampire hosts into wighthood.

>>96354058
This has some difficulty with old lore. Vampires in pre-V5 are actually immune to the negative effects of bane/demon possession in the vast majority of cases(which is why the dark thaum path "tyranny of the wyrm" can stuff a whole maeljin incarnae into a vampire without causing the apocalypse instantly). There are only 3 kinds of banes that can actually fuck-up a vampire: blood banes, death banes, and madness banes, all others are just power batteries that let the vampire take fomori powers for basically free.
True Demons are even more limited, demon possession either fails outright or fails and fucks up the demon in the process. The blood of caine is basically gods wrath concentrate and demons are like lightning rods for what's essentially concentrated potential energy waiting for a spark to set it off.

>get embraced
>caitiff
>still get the clan weakness but none of the clan disciplines

>>96354342
i always find that merit funny because clan weaknesses are not made equal but they all cost the same

>>96354373
Tracks with disciplines, desu.

Asked about the Chimpanzee from last thread
Learned his name is Quizno and is a reoccurring Npc or Hunt from the midnight circus
He can also be bribed with strawberry bonbons
>Hates attractive women, gay men and the Dutch

>>96354380
fair enough

>>96354801
>Dumb bitch barely got out of basic training and thinks she knows all the unions secrets
Control dodged a bullet with this one. She's clearly mentally ill.

>>96354801
she's barely an Etherite, just putting up with their shit, cuz it's better than the alternative in her eyes. Bet she's high Banality too.

>>96354801
>no Syndicate Sugar Mommy, why live?

Here is the trailer
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrAVDT7maJE

If this wasn't a trainwreck, delayed like 5+ years, I would have liked the idea of playing an Elder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrAVDT7maJE
>coming soon Oct 21 25
>In game purchases
lmao

>>96354801
>>96354954
>The syndicate are stealing all the money and keeping the good technology from the common man!
>Literally worked down the street from the syndicate mommy taking down corrupt charities and saving lives with economics.
Nothing makes you look worse than the whitewolf writers trying to make you look good.

>>96355017
Entirely possible for a large organization to do two different things. The charity worker is aware and afraid of the shitty syndicate members, and the rogue isn't exactly a selfless pauper.

>>96352997
>weaver doesn't get nearly enough hate imo she is actually the one at fault for everything going wrong
Yeah but we don't get to see that in a good 99% so even when the Garou are correct, for once in their God damned history. It doesn't really feel concrete enough to matter, like many WtA things.

>>96354342
Mildly retarded question but if a caitiff has a clan weakness, how would other vampires figure out theyre a caitiff with the exception of developing obvious out of clan disciplines?

>>96353487
Pentex probably has every fucking sentient critter in the World of Darkness working for them in some subsidiary

like if there was a Big Foot you can absolutely guarantee that somewhere out there is Evil Big Foot and he works for Pentex

>>96353854
probably decided that since the Technocracy was going to become more reasonable as if became playable that they wanted an antagonist

>>96355141
lol. If there isn't any Big Foot, they already made Evil Big Foot. Pentex is amazing.

>>96355079
One of the biggest issues with "The Weaver is Evil" is that IRL, We are the weaver faction. The weaver is genuinely solidly on the side of her favorite anxiety monkeys and the "good ending" of werewolf is all of human society being reduced back to the stone age.
The other side of that coin is that gaia, from the human perspective, is a Raging Bitch that fucks humanity over for no reason all the time. Gaia doesn't see humanity as any more important that the parasitic flies that'll lay eggs in your skin and eat you alive from the inside. The impergium would have absolutely continued forever if humanity didn't develop silver weapons.
It's so much easier to show the evils of the wyrm because it's also anti-human.

>>96355210
The fact that the overlap between the Wyrm and Weaver goes to the former every single time doesn't help. The stuff associated with the Weaver feels so banal it barely works as a horror.

>>96355280
>barely works as a horror
The biggest issue is that it really doesn't work as horror. All the issues the weaver represents are IRL issues that most people have genuinely been conditioned to think are normal by the IRL evil sociopaths running businesses and governments. The weaver's horror is the horror of real life, but most people will think it's Normal rather than evil.

>>96350259
>7th Generation wasn't as dead as everyone thought
>now openly traffics away children
>even when their members are exposed fomori come out from the wood work to protect their masters

>>96355012
> lasombra and toreador are day one DLC and cost 30 bucks

>>96355012
it's been what? 4 years? and the animations are STILL stiff and awkard

What will those dastardly Technocrats think of next? Do your part to hinder the Technocracy, my fellow Traditionalists.

>>96355012
Looks more interesting than I was expecting it to, I'll probably play it

>>96355336
Like many parodies, they can't top reality.

>>96355009
>>96355012
WoD is doomed. Or as the youth would say, WoD is cooked.

>>96348818
>They've got more to answer for than the fucking giovanni
>Giovanni work towards the ENDLESS NIGHT, which involves destroying the Shroud to fuse the world with the Shadowlands and be ghost kings
>As far as I know The Lasombra don't have some Abyss ocultists working on a "perma block out the sun to envelop the world in shadow" plan
>Abyss Ocultism is a niche the Amici Noctis dismiss as weirdos and most Lasombra don't actually care much about what the shadowy stuff is as long as haha tentacle goes brrrrr
This irks me to no end swear on me mum m8

so do you think Revenant: the Ravishing: lineages 2 will be a complete disaster or only a partial disaster?

>>96355416
I put a fake wasp nest in my light and water controls. I haven't payed those bills in years.

Vampire and Werewolf are pretty easy to adapt to a videogame format. On the other extreme, which games are completely impossible to adapt?

>>96355470
How much of a distater is irrelevant when the 5th ed and official reddit crowd are gonna cope as hard as physically possible and try to gaslight people into thinking that it's better than the original. Then several months later we'll get youtube videos where the people disenchanted by the game actually stop holding back and shit on it hard. Then 10-15 years later we'll have people claim that's it was an underrated masterpiece.

>>96355502
Mage, ironically.

>>96355450
I say this without a shred of irony, the game will inject more people in the fanbase than anything else in the last 10 years.

>>96355210
What the game actually says is "The Weaver is also insane in its own way and highly susceptible to enabling the Defiler Wyrm." As the Wyrm's broken vision of itself, the Defiler was envisioned as being able to slide down between the Weaver's webs, which it is good at... unfortunately, because it doesn't destroy things the way the Wyrm should, it corrupts them instead. Meanwhile, the other two Triatic Heads, while unable to make any headway, are still dangerous and undirected. At this point, they also have enough awareness of their own state that they keep the Wyrm as a whole powerless and thrashing around madly, else they and the Urge Wyrms would cease to exist.

Also, silver weapons didn't end the Impergium. Humans didn't really make any headway into making those until about a few thousand years after Garou decided that they would stop savaging humanity for reasons argued among their own.

>>96355454
>As far as I know The Lasombra don't have some Abyss ocultists working on a "perma block out the sun to envelop the world in shadow" plan
Largely because they can already do that. "Cry that slays Light" is just a thing they can already do.
It's extra hilarious in toj, because the giovanni fail to tear down the shroud entirely, but the lasombra ante fully blocks out the sun as a side-quest while he's doing something else.

>>96355502
>>96355509
Mage could work as a puzzle or point and click game.

>>96355516
>Also, silver weapons didn't end the Impergium.
WtA20 retcons this.

>>96355520
>as a puzzle or point and click game
I don’t want to solve puzzles or click stuff, I want to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, hear the lamentations of their women, and blow shit up.
t. bani Flambeau

>>96355515
I'm not really feeling it, I never see anyone outside WoD communities mention it online. With something like Cyberpunk, there was more buzz by this time before release (although that one was also kind of a failure on launch, but due to bugs, not lack of interest)

>>96355550
Mage could legit work as a heavily text based isometric crpg. Something like Planescape Torment with light to low medium combat and plenty of ways to avoid it or make it worse. Add some spheres effects as dialogue choices, 2-3 generic sphere effects per sphere that scale with dots, rotes to learn and wonders to collect and bam you've got your game.

>>96355581
I feel like you'd have to decide on a paradigm or two beforehand though

Changeling: the Dreaming dating sim.

>>96355648
You can have a list of paradigms to choose from. Stuff like weird science, hermetic magic etc. Perhaps you start with one based on your Tradition and one extra one that you pick. As you Arete grows due to main story events and main character syndrome you can choose more paradigms and get access to additional rotes.

>>96355689
We've already discussed this. Dreaming would make a bitchin' Soulslike.

Genuinely CtD dating sim isn’t even that crazy an idea

If you go back and read the old kith books, they spend way more time on ‘what is this kith like in romantic situations’ than any other splat’s sub-books ever did, which I always enjoyed desu

>>96355723
I was thinking Geist for that, since it already has a resurrection mechanic, and the Underworld is broken similar to all the Souls settings. And the whole Cabeiros/Catabasis thing is similar to Linking the Flame or becoming Dark Lord.

>>96355581
Disco Elysium is already a Mage game, Tequila Sunset is a marauder.

>>96355536
Maybe the exact date, but not the cause. Mostly because humans having worked silver or gold before 4 or 5000 BCE is no-go. Meanwhile, a parade of books from 1e to W20 has lined up the "this was recognized as bad, they stopped doing it" end of the Impergium.

>>96355745
That’s because romantic love is the ultimate antithesis to Banality. Sexual love is just plain fun.

>>96355517
>lasts 1 hour
Come on Daddy Shadowed One, you already laughed off your own diablerie, I bet you can do better than that. I want full on global 30 Days of Night up in here. Even Zapathustra managed a week

>>96355009
>>96355012
Wow this looks genuinely awful. Unappealing visuals, writing, gameplay. Nothing is absolutely worst in class I suppose but if this is the stuff they're highlighting for the trailer?

Shoulda just canceled it honestly.

>>96356001
It's the level 9 one that only lasts an hour. The Ante version lasted for Months and only ended because god sniped the lasombra ante.
"Cry that slays Light" has 2 version like the obfuscate(everyone forgets you) and daimoinon(summon demon lord) level 9s, the 9 is short-lived while the 10 is permanent.

>>96355888
>Mostly because humans having worked silver or gold before 4 or 5000 BCE is no-go
Anon, we have IRL examples of goldworks older than that. Look up the Varna Necropolis. Gold jewelry and weapons are older than recorded history.

>>96355506
If the writing is suitably millennial though some youtubers might lampoon the shit out of it. Here's hoping, that trailer didn't exactly wow me in the dialogue department.

>>96355888
>a parade of books from 1e to W20 has lined up the "this was recognized as bad, they stopped doing it" end of the Impergium
Of course they would. Don't forget that most of the books are written from the perspective of garou propaganda. Why would any garou every willingly admit that the puny humans managed to push them back and end the impergium? It's obvious the garou would rather pretend they ended it because they were too nice.

>>96355888
>Mostly because humans having worked silver or gold before 4 or 5000 BCE is no-go.
Anon, silver is one of the seven metals of antiquity, we've been using it before there was writing. We have silver artifacts from nearly 5,000 bc all over the place.

>>96355888
>worked silver or gold before 4 or 5000 BCE is no-go
Anon, the sumerians had worked silver and gold by then.

I don't believe the impergium even existed. Disorganized werewolves slaughtering innocent people? Sure. But the impergium as described by the werewolves? No. About as plausible as the mokole "wewuz lizard kangs" crap.

>>96356098
Anon...even with silver weapons there is basically zero chance humans pushed back Garou. Even assuning most humans for some reason knew silver worked against Garou when nothing else did and had silver weaponry.

No group was large enough, organized enough and powerful enough to take on a single Garou. And that's without Delirium.

There is a reason why half the time Vampires and other supernatural heavily implied to help humans those times.

>>96356150
>There is a reason why half the time Vampires and other supernatural heavily implied to help humans those times.
The sumerians, who had silver, were also lead by vampires. a group of ghouls is immune to delirium. A large group of ghouls with silver knive will absolutely flatline a garou pack(while taking heavy losses).
The humans/vampires definitely are "winning", but the garou certainly aren't interested in mutually assured destruction.

>>96356146
>About as plausible as the mokole "wewuz lizard kangs" crap
This exists so STs can have conan-style ancient prehistory campaigns where humans enslaved by evil lizard can rebel.

>>96356174
>The humans/vampires definitely are "winning"
*definitely aren't winning
It'll definitely be a double-knockout with 80% casualties.

>>96355502
Mage, Demon, and Changeling all rely far too much on creativity and sandboxing that trying to program every interaction would be impossible. You’d have to heavily corral it.

>>96356174
Yes..? Supernatural supported humans are good, that was part of my point. A decent amount of WTA books also point that out. Hell, Mithras's most known feat is defending Roman's legions when they were invading England against Werewolves. Or really, any other supernatural, see image.

Ah yes the threadly realization that oWoD as a setting wasn't very well thought out, especially when crossover is concerned, and the godawful copes people have about it.

>>96356221
>Vampires saying they easily took down a religious institution of True Faith

>>96356274
And yet classic wod is still a high bar compared to most settings. That's how bad worldbuilding is.

>>96356277
In case you missed, True Faith is rare, even in the old days.

>>96356296
WoD is hard carried by vibes. Every line has strong vibes, which is why they're so polarizing. Once you have an emotional investment in something you'll bend over backwards to justify it.

>>96356051
>The Ante version lasted for Months and only ended because god sniped the lasombra ante.
Lmao, thanks shadow daddy. I better reread ToJ Crucible of God, that sounds almost as fun as when Setites actually woke up Set and he just went "you guys are cringe" and killed them all.

Think I'm gonna throw in my game someone trying to recreate the lv9 discipline even at a local level. If my players don't stop it then for 1 hour they get Objective: Survive.

>>96356330
>even in the old days
No it wasn't. True faith being common in the olden days is the reason demons were so weak in the medieval. It wasn't until the modern era of anti-faith intellectualism that TF started becoming rare.

>>96356332
>Every line has strong vibes
This is a really hard thing to pull off once. The fact WoD managed to do it repeatedly is fucking amazing.

>>96356395
I'd argue it's less amazing and more revealing on how much our fear of being cringe nowadays stymies the kind of passion that creates an "immaculate vibes, spotty logic" style setting.

>>96356551
>fear of being cringe
"Cringe" was psy-opped by the karens. They demonized any sort of passions because it pissed them off to see people happy.

>>96356098
>most of the books are written from the perspective of Garou propaganda

Projections of a Vampire main. Large amounts of W:tA books contain out of character sections that talk frankly about what's going on and dig on what's inaccurate or cite what is.

>>96356128
>>96356138

You'll find that I included that year, other anon.

>>96356060
>Varna Necropolis is older
>Dates to about the mid point of cited year range

Do you people seriously not know how to fucking read a range of dates?

You're also not even close to reaching the cuttoff point of the Impergium ~9k years ago.

>>96356187
Reader of Kinfolk: A Breed Apart detected.

>>96356221
>Mithras

Fap over V:tM characters somewhere else, anon.

>>96356778
>Large amounts of W:tA books contain out of character sections
Out of character sections are notorious for being the current writers headcanon. Remember how the Gehenna book said Set was absolutely 100% dead in canon and could never be brought back, only to have him as a major antagonist in a gehenna scenario140 pages later?
Use the 1e/2e rule of thumb "Everything in these book is propaganda" and the game suddenly makes much more sense.

Some more work on this image of the Hydra! Thank you all for the compliments, I really enjoy making this stuff!

>>96356778
>Large amounts of W:tA books contain out of character sections that talk frankly about what's going on and dig on what's inaccurate or cite what is.
And they contradict themselves constantly because the writers are unironically retarded. Always take the writer's opinion with a grain of salt.

As a VtM guy who doesn't really fuck with the rest of oWoD and doesn't include it in his games, it's always weird to me to see someone else get so assblasted about vampire players for no reason. What did I ever do to you?

>>96355502
I'm going say Wraith. So much so that Paradox changed everything about it to make that VR game.

>>96356808
Looks pretty dope!

>>96351262
Honestly not sure, but if that is the case, I'm so glad he's accidentally re-invented an already-made heresy as opposed to found a loophole nobody thought of.

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>>96357155
>>96357155

>>96357155