Thread 96367570

Friendly powerful spirits edition

>Previous Thread
>>96357155
>Pastebin
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>Mediafire
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>Mega I
https://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw
>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)
https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ
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>STV content folders
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>General Creation Kit
https://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw
>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoD
http://167.99.155.149/
>Anders Mage Page
http://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/
>White Wolf Wiki:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

>Thread Question:
Have you sold your soul yet? Why not?

>>96367570 (OP)
What if I lease it? Rent it out?

Of course not, I like my soul more than any demon could like it.

>>96367570 (OP)
because all the offers have been shit. i'll let you punch a guy really hard and in return you'll have to spend eternity eating literal shit and convince others to eat shit. i'll take boxing classes instead you fucking weirdo

>>96367570 (OP)
>Have you sold your soul yet? Why not?
i prefer selling other people

>>96367582
>Rent it out?
That would get you something like ~0.05 USD/month.

>>96367570 (OP)
When you guys are ST, do you generally make your players roll for everything or do you handwave most of it in favor of RP’ing?

For example,
>he RP’ed the lie, I’m not going to bother with making him roll

>>96367625
We often handwave things - depending on your stats, of course.

You know what would be cool? Art of Science, The Machine and the Patriarch in a contrasting style to OPs pic.

I like to think I'm open to new ways to fight the Wyrm, even to redefining that fight, but if I see any of you absolute DOGS pull this shit I am TAKING your caern

>>96367570 (OP)
Which spirits are these? Who's the guy on all fours?

>>96367691
What was that? Sorry let me just poke you through the gauntlet with a middle finger longer than the barrel of your gun.

>>96367570 (OP)
>Have you sold your soul yet? Why not?
saving it for someone special

does anyone know of a ascension rebuild that modernises the politics/factions?

>>96367719
They are the heads of the Triatic Wyrm.
From Left-to-Right it's Beast-Of-War, Defiler Wyrm and Eater-Of-Souls
Guy On All Fours is probably someone whose been hollowed out and filled with a Bane.

>>96367747
Nice, thank you. Is there any similar art for the Weaver and the Wyld?

>>96367625
I probably call for fewer rolls than most,
Typically, just for using disciplines or when in combat with something that can actually hurt the party.

All the social stuff has to be role-played, and I decide if it succeeds based on the players’ stats and how well they perform.
If a pumped up Brujah is fighting a normal mortal, I might make them take a frenzy test but the fight is never in doubt.

Mostly it’s me doing the rolling behind the screen. I like to keep the players in a good role playing flow. They don’t seem to mind.

>>96367797
probably not. Our own draw anon made that pic in the op

>>96367827
Plus the Wyld doesn't really have Triatic Aspects

>>96367625
i have to say in my games it completely depends on the moot sometimes we roll a lot sometimes we roll 3 times in 5 hours

Do you think aliens have a place in World of Darkness?

>>96367625
Knowing when a roll is justified is a very important skill that you have to develop on your own. For example, I don't like it when players ask to roll perception every single second, so I always ask for perception when there's something worth noticing. They then know they don't need to ask, I'll prompt them.

If the action is so easy the difficulty is laughably low/you are giving like +5 bonus dice, I won't bother them with a roll. They will succeed. At the same time there are a few actions that aren't just difficult, they're impossible.

>>96368010
Not in mine, I don't care much for alien conspiracies.
But who am I to tell others what to do? If an alien splat came out and people like it, good for them. I just won't include it my own games.

>>96368010
Yes. But also Khuvon/Thal'hun shit was hands down the worst way to do it.

>>96368010
I think they could, but I've never sat down and tried to work it out. I'm not a fan of Mage in general, so its take on aliens is out for me.

I think the inherent problem is that Aliens are often a materialist's take on phenomenon that was hitherto explained spiritually, be it with demons, fae, other races of intelligent supernatural beings, or curiouser. Urban fantasy will inherently lean spiritual, so how do you square aliens which simultaneously share a lot of space with the paranormal but are deeply rooted in a materialist "they're just intelligent other species with super duper tech" explanations?

>>96368010
yes, but i both don't think that white wolf ever did it well and also don't care enough to develop the idea myself

>>96367807
>>96368044
How do you handle guys who are tired of playing combat thugs, creepy suits and basement dwellers and want to play a socialite, but have social skills so negative that even a prompt booklet harms more than helps?

>>96367625
you know how they have those descriptions of what each dot represents your character being able to do? I use those when determining if a roll is needed, basically if the action is equal or greater than the dots you have then you roll if less than the dot you have then I wouldn't make you roll unless it's a stressful situation

>>96367797
The Weaver and Wyld aren't really split into aspects in the same way, as the multiple-personality schizo stuff is unique to the Wyrm, so they would be less interesting to draw.
Though the drawfag could do something using the three seeds of the Weaver, Dogma, Science and Technology, but they seem to be much better at body horror and gross shit, which doesn't really suit the Weaver.

>>96368143
You kind of have to hold their hands a little. Let them rp a little and if they’re run into a roadblock then let them roll a persuasion check. Challenge them but don’t frustrate them.
Social skills are like all skills: they need to be practiced.

>>96368199
Could do something with Technology eating the other two aspects, since that's more in line with the Weaver's particular damage than the endless splitting of the Wyrm.

I have a PTRD 14.5mm anti-tank rifle. If I shot a generic Garou in the skull with it, would they drop dead?

If I were a malkavian I would just give people false predictions to fuck with them.

>>96368143
Ask them if they're sure, let the rolls do the heavy lifting, and most importantly: over describe the NPCs reactions so they don't misinterpret things.

You're never going to fully stop a social inept from screwing up as a social character, but you can mitigate it. The bigger issue is that social inepts typically misunderstand things and create problems out of game.

>The Man - NWO
>The Computer - Iteration X
>The Almighty Dollar/Easy Credit - Syndicate
interesting, what would the totems of the Progenitors and the Void Engineers be?

>>96368212
>>96368246
Thanks!

>>96368221
I'd call that a surface level take on the Weaver, but it works. Dogma, conformity, collectivism and bureaucracy are all still a big part of modern society and responsible for just as much of Weaver's negative shit as tech.

>>96368010
Not sure about Caine but I know another vampire with a similar name who fought against aliens.
Technically they were just a banished ancient terrestrial race and not extraterrestrial but they looked like aliens.

>>96368301
>The Man - NWO
The Television, One Voice and Digital Eye also fit. Met a NWO player with Cockroach favour once.
>The Computer - Iteration X
The Machine, The Machine Messiah and Digital Eye also fit (though they and Computer might just be one and the same).
>The Almighty Dollar/Easy Credit - Syndicate
Also Invisible Hand.
> totems of the Progenitors
Polar Bear and Bear, Dog, Termite and Wasp, Dolphin, Qyrl?
>and the Void Engineers be?
The Wanderer. I swear I've seen an argonaut totem somewhere, but I can't remember what it's called.

>>96367625
I have 2 self rules for rolls.
1) Is it routine?
Look, after the 10th time going feeding as a vampire, I am not going to have you roll or even bother RPing the scene beyond a few words as long as the circumstances doesn't change.

2)Does this needs to be a roll?
Taking your character into account, I am not going to have you roll obvious things your character is highly successful, in circumstances that would not matter.
You are 2-meter brickhouse of a dude, with Intimidation 4, facing a mudane, skinny office worker? Even if you somehow botch everything, I still would have a hard time believing you can't intimidate him. No need to roll.

>>96368301
Void Engineers can just, Cosmogenesis their own Totem.

>>96368654
Same.

In addition, I also have
3) was it cool?
Did he role play really well and come up with a creative solution? Give it him. No need for him to go through all that effort to just take it back with a shitty roll.

>>96368301
Can technocrats have totems?
My ascension-fu is weak, so yeah, that's probably a dumb question.

>>96368748
Shamans and Technocrats can have Totems

>>96368010
As Hunter enemies, definitely

>>96368786
Weird, but interesting.

Does anyone have more of these?

>>96368748
They can in M20 (pic related). I'm pretty sure they couldn't in Revised or earlier but I may be wrong.

Side note I hate how Mage handles Totem as background. In M20 they're nerfed to hell, in previous editions there's zero consistency in how they work between books and/or they're nerfed compared to woof Totems. They should have just designed them in the same vain as in WtA or CtD honestly.

>>96367570 (OP)
>Have you sold your soul yet? Why not?
No, because selling your greatest bit of leverage is retarded. Real infernalists make action and item contracts or charge a service fee for when he brings in other people to sell their souls.
Weirdly enough, the best infernalists are human sorcerers or vampire koldunes following the non-infernal path of old koldunism. Nature spirits apparently have a pokemon-type advantage against demons.

>>96369124
>>96369135
There's a Mage one that someone here made, but I don't have it.

>>96367570 (OP)
No
God already owns it
Now face the wall, profligate

>>96369124
>>96369135
Is there a Changeling one? Probably not.

I had to make this, I couldn't help myself seeing Owl purposely stop things that can actually help.

>>96369629
Here, without the lore context.

>>96369595
My favorite Marauder

>>96369629
It's almost like gaia Wants the wyrm to win sometimes.

>>96368010
As other niggas said, either Hunter NPCs (agents of the angels), Changeling or Mage NPCs (umbrood), or Demon NPCs (qlippotim). Bonus cameo as the source of a hybrid gonzo bloodline of alien Maeghar.

Just thinking now, you could probably hint at them in W5 if you connect them with the Luna cults.

>>96369729
>W5

>>96369632
>>96369629
SNEKD
Setites best clan.

>>96369629
Weirdly, A strider might have better luck with the new spell of life. It requires fusion-dancing with one of the old-style mummies to work, it it might let the strider fly under the radar of owl.

l o l
o
l

>>96369741
The only singularly bad thing is that yiffer culture has a collective memory of ten years, at best.

>>96369828
Honestly the only good use of this Merit is instant, perfect ballistic calculations on Tremere with Chemistry/Explosives/Artillery at 3+ and Path of Conjuring.

>>96367570 (OP)
Why haven't the Tremere invented a blood cleansing ritual to avoid blood diseases?

>>96370039
>anon doesn't know about rank 1 ritual to do just that

>>96369842
>The only singularly bad thing
Fuck off Muammar, no one likes WoD5. You shat on the lore of every game you touched and destroyed everything good about all of them.
No one wants to play a game centered on sitting in a caern all day being emo until you get killed for getting to rank 3.

>Dream of running a years long chronicle
>irl friends are too memey and unserious for the game I want to run
>onlime friends have conflicting, constantly changing schedules that makes even doing 1 session a herculean task
>no small titty goth gf to peg me

its an abstract feel

>>96367570 (OP)
I have a question.
What's the best book about hedge magic?
Sorcerer revised or 20th?

>>96370571
My longest running game ever was originally just a Hunter the reckoning game where the mark was a the Gingerdead Man
Lasted about a year and half

>>96370689
Sorry for poor grammar cooking crab rangoon

>>96370603
Dark Age Mage, then Sorcerer, then Sorcerer Revised (worse lore, also shoddy, lots of references to strictly-mage stuff, primary upside over original is that it contains psychics and system-gaming systems that lend some flexibility to spellcraft).

Also consider just using Thaumaturgy or Koldunism if you're running Vampire.

>>96370730
Mage dark ages?
Doesn't it deal with regular mages?

>>96367570 (OP)
>Have you sold your soul yet? Why not?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPHVQTNLUI0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyxdDapknfQ

>>96370603
>or 20th?
Please tell me your joking. Sorcerer 20th is an abomination that somehow has the worst parts of every version of sorcerer crammed into one game.
Anyone who unironically suggests that book to you is either trolling or needs to be put into a mental hospital for self-harm.
>What's the best book about hedge magic?
Sorcerer Revised is the best, but it has issues. You need to go back an reference WoD: sorcerer(this is NOT 20th) for a number of missing rules since many parts of the book were copy/paste incompletely.
Basically, treat Sorcerer Revised as an update and coversion guid to WoD: Sorcerer(Again, NOT 20th)
>>96370772
>Doesn't it deal with regular mages?
Yes. That anon is trolling.

>>96370772
Yeah, but the fluff is good, the pillar system of the seasonal, shamanic and Norse pagans is interesting, and you could wing Rus or Celtic pagans from it as well. Like Dark Age Fae the Mage book is underrated and overlooked, so I recommend it when I can in case someone would also find something useful in it.

>>96370907
>treat Sorcerer Revised as an update and coversion guid to WoD: Sorcerer
Also ignore any references to Mage. Use the background mechanics like "library" from OG sorcerer. The modern library mechanics are fake and gay, the old ones were there to let your character actually have fun with magic rather than be stuck at path 3 for 5 years of IRL play time.

Got asked to do a Changling called Pumpernickel who's made of bread

>>96371045
Is that a fetish thing?

>>96371126
Changeling the dreaming, not werewolf anon.

>>96371410
>Changeling The Dreaming
>not a fetish game
Come on now

>>96370171
That explains why she was so mad about the tremere doing literally nothing about the plague.

>>96369995
I think usability can stretch pretty far when the player has specific knowledge in an engineering field an can justify using that same knowledge in character - all sorts of vehicular mayhem, bringing down structures by identifying and targeting their specific structural weakpoints, cooking the accounting books, gambling/probability adjacent shenanigans and so on.

>>96371535
damn ngl that's based.

>>96371535
I could be charitable and assume the writer was setting up a reverse of the "Frog Prince" story with this... but this was 100% a petplay thing.

Playing Signalis; who's to say love can't bloom on the battlefield for HIT Marks?

>>96371535
>Otherkin: The Glamourbombing

Is there an owod book or document with generic statblocks for soldiers, mercenaries and similar things?

>>96372019
Yes

>>96372060
... I should have seen this one coming. Anyway, what's the name of the book or doc?

>>96371535
And once again, a Pooka makes an embarrassment out of Kithians everywhere.

>>96371535
No no, I can work with this.

>>96371535
anon, every splat is technically a fetish game and there are many example character sheets for it. We have a literal dog/horse/oxen fucker in VTM.

>>96372549
At least people remember the Pooka out of sheer cringe. No one has given a shit about the others Kiths in years.

>>96372661
https://youtu.be/CWayC9SJ2wY?si=ncfGXATRhekoYFF4

>>96372661
>bratovitch
Fucking tzitrash

>>96372661
revenants in general are pretty worthless and never added anything to the game

>>96371591
All of that doesn't really need you to be able to do complex calculations on the fly, just high Drive, Construction or Architecture, Gambling, Psychology, Subterfuge, Finance or Larceny.

If you're messing with highly explosive and otherwise volatile chemicals, fundamental physics and indirect fire with modern versions of weapons that dealt 20-25+ damage even back in 1300s, you'd not only need relevant skills at high ratings, but be very, very glad to have this Merit.

>>96372859
Iunno, I like playing Krevcheski mechanists or dhampir schmucks when I'm not storytelling. When you routinely have to act out elder and powerful assholes playing them ain't that appealing anymore.

>>96367570 (OP)
Anyone have the rest of Luis Miguez art packs? Only 2 modern packs are in the mega folder, and nothing in the pastebin

Was the Lasombra Antediluvian a loser?

>>96370039
>>96370171
>Tremere in modern day actually making sure that acolytes learn the path of blood instead of doing shitty busywork around the chantry

>>96373544
yes. nihilistic edgelord that wanted to make the perfect clan to his retarded standards

>>96373544
By all reasonable metrics yeah. He is in a weird position of having access to everything he could possibly ask for but fails to do anything all that interesting.

Hedgefag…
HEDGEFAG
Where are you Hedgefag…
Where the FUCK are you ?

Nemo
NEMO
Where are you Nemo
Where the FUCK are you ???

>>96373723
>>96373740
How did one little German boy managed to mindbreack people?

>>96373544
He was a nobody when embraced, had delusions of grandeur and was prone to jealousy. He had zero clue that his childe Gratiano was going to usurp him because he believed Gratiano’s loyalty was genuine. (No one else bought Gratiano’s act and tried to warn the elder)

If you believe that his soul made it to the Abyss, then the inhabitants of the Abyss also don’t like Lasombra because he’s a weird little invader.

>>96372661
Were those from the same book?

>>96373803
I don't see them in the Ghouls Fatal Addiction

>>96373603
Chores are important, but Sanguine Assistants will handle them. Path of Blood is optional, and in most cases shouldn't be your primary. In fact you should urge your charges to specialise. Don't forget to also urge them to cover their weaknesses and learn generally important rituals!

EVERY Tremere must be bound by at least four different means to be loyal and completely unable to betray or be forced to betray the House. Regularly renew and inspect that for tampering, but without schedule. If a Tremere refuses to participate, assume he's an infiltrator or has been brainwashed. Ward against wraiths and other spirits if you don't have a specialist that can ensure all spirits around the chantry are loyal to Tremere and will destroy or capture interlopers.
Non-resident mental and illusion powers and disguises should be disabled in your chantry's vicinity.

>>96367570 (OP)
thoughts on this? im liking the look of it.

>>96373982
Stop spamming the thread with this bullshit. This is the fifth fucking time someone has attempted this bait this month.

Akashic bros, I kneel...

For HTV, do ghosts actually get stronger? The fluff says one thing and then the rules say another.
>Hunters deal with both kinds, knowing full well that a weak ghost left alone could eventually grow into one of these vengeful entities.
And the next page,
>Ghosts can’t increase Rank outside of the Underworld and come into existence as either Rank 1 or 2 depending on how much self-awareness they have

>>96374020
The marketing team are not sending their best.

>>96374062
>Dreamspeaker:"Look at what they need just to mimic a fraction of our power"

>>96372661
Of all the examples you could've picked why that one? That one's just disgusting shock value stuff, the first Clanbook Toreador on the other hand is full of bondage art.

>>96372859
Revenants are in a spot similar to most bloodlines I think, where the concept isn't completely devoid of merit, but they are often over-used due to how unique they are. As a specific and rare thing designed to enhance a story or theme they're fine, when they show up too often though that's where problems arise.

>>96374109
>Up to the limit of their arete
What the hell, they can turn all of their masters into archmages at a moment's notice

>>96374109
I feel like Adepts should be able to get the benefit of the powder IF they've added weaver spirits to their paradigm like they sometimes tend to do. It should work for Hermetics too, since they do a lot of Spirit shenanigans too.

>>96374167
Look again. It's doesn't have the "effects are not cumulative" line.
Dreamspeakers can turn their Apprentices into archmages at a moments notice.

>>96374063
Ghosts rank up when they drinks the waters of the underworld at the cost of losing a decent chunk of their memories. There's also ghost cannibalism but that is so unbelievably shit I don't think it would make ghost cannibalism more common than human cannibalism.

>>96374188
Eh, are apprentices allowed to have 6 dots in Arete?

>>96374187
Adepts aren't one of the 4 traditions that actually get good things. As far as the writers are concerned, the basement matrix larpers can get fucked.

>>96374206
Depends. The are definitely NPCs like that, but anon is definitely exaggerating how many dreamspeakers can achieve drug-induced archmastery.

>>96374197
So this is just a case where the fluff contradicts the rules?

>>96374109
>shaman huffs shrooms
>becomes master in Spirit
>gilguls you
nothing personal kid

>>96374237
>The cult of extc cries in envy

So apparently mage blood is “woooah so trippy” to vampires in nuWoD? And that they can legit have bad trips that can get them killed by supernal entities without a mage to hold their hand safely? Lmao.

>>96374188
Anon, that's assumed. No one is huffing 10 of these at once and becoming Spirit 10 Archmaster, with difficulty +20 perception
It's like going "Hmm, it says temporary but doesn't specify the duration. It must mean it can last for decades"

My players like the streamlined mechanics and the Hunger system of v5, but they’ve discovered a bunch of the old lore from the classic era.

If I wanted to run a campaign using the new mechanics but the old Disciplines, is it a pretty straightforward swap or are there going to be hangups?

Asking if anyone’s done this and how well it worked.

>>96374229
I think the Hunter writers misunderstood or altered the stuff in GtS for the sake of making ghosts easier to interact with. Depends on if you are a glass half full or half empty kind of guy.

>>96374337
Straightforward, take lore, use old mechanics. Heck, you can run WoD games on CofD mechanics.

>>96374337
A few. V5 doesn't deal in difficulties the same way, though it's not hard to translate (if something needs difficulty besides 6, give them less/extra die instead, for example), and has some different main attributes (Composure and Resolve replaced Appearance and Perception, though I don't think any significant disciplines interacted with those in ways that aren't either intuitive to replace or already somewhat covered.)

>>96373753
he was one hell of a speaker
and technically Austrian

>>96374670
Based sex pets giving kindred stress relief in two editions.

>>96374670
Literally nobody has ever said that.

>>96374716
this

>>96374809
Tits.

>>96374670
Both Masquerade and Requiem are some of the most sexually deranged games, I doubt anyone ever claimed otherwise

>>96374897
I've never played Requiem or opened a Requiem book so you'll have to substantiate that claim.

>>96375159
>please post fetish shit for me
>>>/trash/

>>96375199
Someone already did in this very thread but I don't see you bitching and moaning about it.

>>96374334
>It's like going "Hmm, it says temporary but doesn't specify the duration. It must mean it can last for decades"
Anon, there's already rules for that. When something doesn't specify duration, it lasts for 1 scene or 1 in-game hour, whichever is shorter. That way the ST is free to change scenes f the players try some out of pocket shit like huffing 10 doses of dream powder(though that'd only work if you were already an arete 10 oracle anyway).

>>96374897
To be fair, that's a Baali in that pic doing what Baali are known to do(dress as alter boys to attract catholics).

>>96375334
>(though that'd only work if you were already an arete 10 oracle anyway).
no it wouldn't work, because no one is that retarded. Not the STs, not the players and definitely not the writers

>>96375383
>and definitely not the writers
Have you read a world of darkness book in your life? If you have, then you and I both know this isn't true.

>>96375334
>That way the ST is free to change scenes f the players try some out of pocket shit like huffing 10 doses of dream powder(though that'd only work if you were already an arete 10 oracle anyway).
If you try that in my chronicle, you basically overdose. You ain't becoming a Master Mage, let alone an Archmage by snorting a ton of literally the most basic drug of Dreamspeakers.

>>96374109
Gibe dream powder, pls

>>96375383
>no it wouldn't work,
It very much would. If an ST is already letting a player play an Arete 10 Oracle character, this is actually one of the most mild things such a character could be doing.
If your an ST that is both letting a player play an oracle And trying to nerf said oracle, then you're a retard. Either play a pink mohawk game that said pink mohawk character is meant for or don't let them play a pink mohawk character in a black trenchcoat game. You don't get mirrorshades game by haphazardly mixing shit.

>>96375452
Anon, it's pointless to argue. You should already know most wod STs are just as unimaginative and allergic to fun as the writers that created the avatar storm. If this was actually cwod, the hobby would be infested with "Autumn People"

>>96375215
Because he wasn't a needy, begging BITCH about it.

>>96374897
>Baali are the femboy Clan
Was Saulot a freak?

>>96375540
>Anon forgot saulot's favorite form to wear is a short femboy
>Source gehenna and BJD

>>96375452
>>96375502
Go on then, explain to me how this works. Forget Arete 10, how Dreamspeaker aren't winning WoD? All Dreamspeakers are Spirit Master Mages, with plenty of Arete 6-7 Spirit Archmages with just a few minutes of preparation. They should have already destroyed Technocracy and subjugated the other Traditions without access to this "miracle" most basic shamanistic drug.

>>96375588
Anon, do you not know the difference between an arete rating and sphere rating is?

>>96375588
>Arete 6-7 Spirit
Spirit is a sphere dumbass. The drug increases sphere rating and is capped by arete. Most mages don't even have an arete of 3, let alone 6-7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiwXTUdtdxM
Mr Gone seems pretty Dreamspeaker-y, don't he?

what is the tradition to join if i want to do necromancy but don't vibe with the euthanatoi?

>>96375708
>Dreamspeaker Nephandus vs Changeling Troll
Nice

>>96375741
hollow ones :)

>>96375708
>Mr Gone seems pretty Dreamspeaker-y,
The guy who makes the character sheets?

>>96375741
There's probably some hermetic house doing that.

>>96375741
There's also dreamspeakers if you would also like to return to monke

>>96375741
>what is the tradition to join if i want to do necromancy but don't vibe with the euthanatoi?
Tytalus or Nephandi if you're le ebil necromancer.
Shaea (girl club) are Ancient Egyptian priestesses.
Akashics and Wu Lung for Eastern Yin-style necromancers.
Dreamspeakers if you're a pagan and also are trafficking with Spirits in general.
Dead Magic books have some Craft ideas.

>>96375810
>(girl club)
Do they accept femboys?

What are good places to look in for alternate options of standard discipline powers, like how many elder powers have multiple options for the same dot, if any exist? Like how Laibons have another version of Auspex with some differences?

>>96375864
They have no issue with men, they aren't feminazi or anything, but they're predominantly ladies.
You gotta at least look the Ancient Egyptian part tho, if you are a twink.

>>96375864
Egyptians, so no. The femboy death cults are sumerian

>>96375931
>The femboy death cults

>>96375931
>>96375955
I'm not drunk enough for this.

>>96369135
mage

Art for the Urge and Elemental Wyrms in the style of the OP pic could be cool.
>Elemental Wyrms: Four "Openings" (A Bleeding Wound [Furmas], a Coughing Mouth [Hoga] and a Leaking Anus [H'rugg], I have no real idea for Wakshaa) in the background with the Elemental Wyrms taking shape from the expelled matter
>Urge Wyrms: Not sure on the exact visual (Maybe use the Domains of the Maejin for their Skins) but each Urge Wyrm should use it's Totem Spirit as it's "Tongue".

>>96375970
We can fix that

>>96375993
>I have no real idea for Wakshaa
Runny Nose. It's the universal symbol for illness and a parody of "running water"

>>96375741
Pretty much any. Your paradigm is more important.
You could be an Etherite necromancer and stitch up Frankenstein monsters, zombie plagues and ghost portals.

>>96375993
Elemental Wyrms have decent descriptions for pictures. Especially Furmas

>>96374897
Even if WoD is a very fetish game, Monster Hearts is literaly about roleplaying a teenager monster and have sex with other teenager monsters.
While WoD has sex and fetish as one of main themes, Monster Hearts has sex as the main focus.

>>96375931
>The femboy death cults
go on...

(You) are now a femboy.
Your Appearance is 4+ (go here: https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Random_Hair_and_Eye_Color_(DnD_Other) if you want - roll 4 times and discard one roll).
Choose your clan (or Tradition) carefully.

I'm reading Geist 2e right now, and I don't really get how the Caul enhancements work. The base Caul has charges for effects that help on a single action, and the condition ends when you spend all of them. While most of the enhancements are continuous effects, which end when the condition does, and they don't seem to be part of the same charge system.
Does this mean you have to spend at least 1 plasm for a base charge, even if you don't want any of those effects, and the continuous effects end when you spend that charge?

>>96377466
The caul condition specifies that other enhancements are treated as add-ons to the condition and its charges. Third dot specifies that you now gain two charges per plasm spent on the power rather than one, so it's a worthy buy. If you spend all your charges the condition ends and thus your bonuses, so always have one in the bank.

I don't blame you for being confused, as much as I love Geist it's the worst offender in terms of conditions actively making things more confusing and clunky.

>>96377615
So if you only want the 2 dot enhancement, which costs 3 plasm, you would have to spend at least 4, just so it doesn't end right away?
Also, it talks about dismissing the Geist to resolve the condition, but I'm not sure if they say how to do that. If that's just something you can do without a roll, isn't that basically a free beat you can gain anytime for 1 plasm?

>>96377653
>you would have to spend at least 4, just so it doesn't end right away?
I think that is the correct reading of it. If you want a quick-fix you could just say that longer lasting effects go until end of scene.

I can't find any explicit mention of dismissing your geist anywhere else on a cursory check so that one is up to interpretation. If you want to avoid an infinite beat farm, you could make it a synergy roll to prematurely force yourself out of the caul.

Are you using the version in the MEGA? Because that's an advanced copy, there could be errata for this in the actual release.

>>96377693
It doesn't have any "p. XX"s in it, so it seems like a more recent version than that.

so blush of life restores EVERYTHING?

>>96377793
Please stop spamming this horny prompt.

>>96377801
it's literally the first time I've ever posted it, my horny prompts are usually centered around Ventrue women

>>96377822
No ventrue women for you.
Enjoy your brujah trash.

All done! Wow, I can't believe I got to the thread image! Cool!
If anyone has any other ideas for drawings, I'm all ears! I was thinking about illustrating specific powers, mostly from WtA or VtM, though I've also entertained drawing certain totems (of any Triatic alignment).

All done! Wow, I can't believe I got to the thread image! Cool!
If anyone has any other ideas for drawings, I'm all ears! I was thinking about illustrating specific powers, mostly from WtA or VtM, though I've also entertained drawing certain totems (of any Triatic alignment).

>>96378004
>If anyone has any other ideas for drawings, I'm all ears!
Sexy Tremere.

>>96374020
whats wrong with talking about it? its vtm adjacent

>>96376998
Literally played a femboy in CtL, he was a Fairest Mirrorskin (Crown-Shield-Spring) with Presence 5, Striking Looks 2, and Small Framed.

>>96371612
>Bubasti have ghoul sex-slave animal kin
>literally all domestic cats are recently descended from the desert cats of nothern Africa
Literally just take domestic cats as kin. They aren't domesticated. Obviously, this isn't done or else literally everyone would play as the goth Egyptian sorcerer kitties.

>>96368010
The best thing about alien mystery's and conspiracy's is that for every star in the sky there is a chance there is a world spinning around it. And no matter how small that chance may be there could be alien life on those alien and far off worlds. So as >>96369729 says there could be near infinite ways that a alien being couls show up on our world and do all kinds of weird and freaky shit. Like turning a town full of people into pod people or brainwashing the president of the US into shutting down the CIA and FBI and firing all of there agents so as to get them off his gray ass after they lose all of there budget money.

And the probing god why do they always go for the biggest butt probe they can find on there crashed space ship first? You can never walk straight after the greys are done with you i swear.

>>96368143
Are you asking about a player not wanting to change there character because they have invested so much time into them but is want to be more social than his stats in his social skills would normally allow? Or the player is just bad at social skills himself and needs help?

>>96378004
Well you seem to have a fondness for the more monstrous or grotesque parts of the setting. How about a Gangrel using Protean? Could go with the default massive claws ripping into some unfortunate hunter or shovelhead, or something more advanced like wings sprouting from the back or crawling up a wall like a spider.

>Venture
>Toreador
>Brujah
Which one would best fit a melee orient himbo jock bro?

>>96378867
Is this his character or his image? Plenty of Toreador would create and abandon someone like that when they see the beauty, then find he has nothing to say.

>>96378867
Ventrue are typically intelligent, so they're out.
Brujah are too rage-mode to be a chill himbo so they're out too.
Toreador is pretty much the only option.

>>96376626
Is this what women are into?

>>96379094
That pic is of a woman with her microtits out anon. It's drawn by a lesbian tumblr hentai artist, so shit comes from the Weird side of hentai.

>>96378004
I had a character concept of a rock singer ventrue who originally started off as a toreador ghoul before being guilt embraced by her domitor's ventrue friend after a sabbat attack drove him into a hunger frenzy and draining her dry.

I dont like V5 but there is a flaw that allows you to be blood bonded to two domitors so she could be bonded to her original domitor and sire. I figure she is forced to be caught up in a very messy falling out while also being torn between her ventrue lineage and her initial toreador connection.

>>96376422
Was it ever explained why evil wyrm fire in WtA and magic glamour fire in CtD are named the same?

>>96378867
Brujah and it's not even close

>>96378004
>WTA
how about your interpretation of a Talon of the Wyrm since there is really a lack of art for them, plus you are on the Wyrm juice at the moment
>VTM
fuck it do the Week of Nightmares, fight of Zapathasura with the Kuei Jin Bodhisattvas, or make an image with interactions between wraith/specters and vampire, maybe some giovanni who bit more than they can chew

>>96378867
Ishtarri

given that we have the wyrm in the op: have you or any of your players ever screwed up things on a cosmic scale?

and if not what was the biggest screw up in your games

>>96378004
how about owl the totem in the shadowlands?

Is it me or Kindred of the East is too... China-centric?
Like, it does have a rich lore for Chinese kuei jin. That's cool. But when it tries to expand onto Korea and Japan they feel a lot less developed and more like an afterthought.
Would you be in favor of kuei jin remaining a chinese thing, while Japan gets instead their own "risen" undead splat?
Fanmade, obviously. WW won't be touching KOTE with a ten foot pole anytime soon.

>>96378867
Ravnos focused on Fortitude (assuming this isn't V5)

>>96380122
Korea's monsters are, for the most part, derivative of Chinese and Japanese myths. Even their vampires are literally just jiangshi, their goblins/ogres are just slightly less angry Oni and their ghosts are literally just yurei.
They do have some cool characters, like the Jeosung Saja which is a grim reaper/Charon type character. That would work better for Wraith than KOTE, though. Their "lesser dragons" would work as a Mokolé clutch, their phoenix rip off could work as maybe a minor changeling. There are a couple of types of wandering spirits in musok (korean folk shamanic religion) that could maybe work.
In general, I would instead keep the kuei jin in Korea and simply give them a different outlook of undeath, maybe one less aligned with taoism and chinese mythology and closer to Korean afterlife narratives.
As for Japan... it's difficult. Japanese folklore is different enough to deserve its own deep dive. It would make sense for them to have their own "mini splat" within KOTE instead of being just kuei jin with a slightly different name. The problem is that almost no creature in traditional Japanese stories truly fits the profile. Their blood drinking monsters are living creatures. Yurei/Onryo and the like work better for Wraith. Yokai fit better as umbran spirits (like the umbrella kid, or anything else born from objects) and bygones (like the kappa).
I do, however, have an alternative suggestion: What if we take an obscure group of spirits from an ancient japanese text, one that barely gets a few lines, and develop it into whatever we want or need it to be?

In Requiem vampires can sense a blood relative's death via Blood Sympathy, but does that extend to diablerie? If someone consumes their sire for example, do his fellow childer realize what's happened or does diablerie technically not count as death for that purpose?

>>96380520
I think they should.

>>96378004
Love it. While I wasn't initially the biggest fan of the wyrm of conquest's cannon and ammo belt, I love the way it turned out and is particularly good from the saw and the fire inside it

Seconding a shifting discipline.Whether it be the violent sprouting of wings+claws from Protean, or a serpentine mouth and body from Serpentis, or even a Lasombra getting their Abyssal form.

>>96379671
I was running an Archmage chronicle set in one of the ToJ scenarios. The one with meteor hitting Earth.

My players bounced it back, hit the Astroid Belt with such a force that so called Hunter got punched through to Deep Umbra.

Unfortunately, that caused a hole in the barriers to Deep Umbra and they had to face a few eldritch and demonic hordes alongside Nephandi, Marauders and strange Celestines.

That was a fun one.

>>96380520
I mean, if they were diablerized, they are dead. Should they know the cause of death? I would say of course not, Sure the message you receive from someone being sucked dry to it's soul might be worse than someone being beaten to the final death, But i don't think you will be such an expert on those sensations to call it what had happened.

>>96380231
Oni themselves, at least in their modern conceptulization, are highly derivative of rakshasa and yaksha.

Is there anything on merfolk outside of blood-dimmed tides, or are they just forgotten?

>>96381336
Dark Ages Mage also had them if I remember right. Their main splat is Changeling, though.

I'm being invited to play in a Chronicles of Darkness game. The last interaction I had with WoD in general and Vampire in particular was back in Masquerade around a decade ago, what is Requiem like in comparison?

>>96380122
It's that way on purpose. 90's sentiments of japan and china were very different than post-2000's attitudes. Japan was still our WW2 enemy and the country that nearly overtook the american economy in the 80's to most of america(which is also why weebs were so hated). China on the other hand was just seen as japan's victim and the place all the cool jacky chan movies came from.
This is the attitude KotE is built off. It's a love letter to asian martial arts movies with a little anime mixed in, like how VtM is basically a love letter to Ann Rice novels and Interview with a Vampire.

>>96381769
Fewer clans, but more customization space in them, merits are the way you really define and set apart your character. The five in-book factions are all political/philosophical rather than automatically oppositional.

There's also no "cartoon bad guy" faction like the Sabbat, though there are some antagonists like Belial's Brood and VII.

In terms of play, it uses dice count bonuses/penalties instead of target numbers. 7-10 are a success. 10s get you an extra die to throw*. 5+ successes is a Dramatic success. If your pool is zero, you can still roll a Chance Die, with 10 being a normal success and 1 being a Dramatic Failure.

*Certain merits/weapons can also grant the 9-again, 8-Again, or Rote properties to a roll

>>96380231
>As for Japan... it's difficult.
They actually have a perfect set up for japan and every other asian country: "Heretical" dharmas. Specifically livng gods and inward focus dharma for japan given their shinto and buddist culture.
The main problem with KotE is that they act like every asian country follows the 5 dharma of the quinox, when really only china should be dominated by it. China is also the only asian country the follow the fire/wood/earth/metal/water elemental wheel system the godbodies use, everyone else in asia has classic 4 elements with maybe a fifth like void or lightning.
KotE has the tools to make a complex world and an accurate representation of asian culture, so at least one writer was competent, but it feels like someone up top was too much of a dumbass to leave the competent writers alone to their job(Was most likely Achili given the evidence)

>>96381769
Requiem has better core rules but the factions are a lot more vague so the individual ST can customize things.

do kuei jin even exist anymore

>>96382030
It's an unanswered question. V5 ignores them completely rather than say they do/do not still exist.

>>96382030
V5 basically retcons them and a couple of apocalyptic plotlines forced them to die on mass but I don't remember the details.

>>96382056
>>96382148
lame

>>96382183
You should already know modern wod writers are fake and gay.
Old wod writers were also gay, but they weren't fake and gay.

>>96382183
What did you expect? Keep them around and get fucked over when they cause a lawsuit?

>>96382259
I mean...they were in the 20th Edition. Paradox are just cowards.

>>96382259
You can get sued at any time for literally anything, there's no winnable lawsuit they would ever cause, it's just gayness and retardation, Vampire the HR Department

>>96382183
Personally I think it was the only unequivocally good choice V5 made.

>>96382541
Nah, wan kuei were cool. Like DtF, they needed another edition to work the setting and mechanics out though.

>>96382259
>when they cause a lawsuit?
What lawsuit and on what grounds? You can't just sue for anything and expect to win, even in the US.

>>96382541
The kote hate is overblown and retarded. Anyone who's ever opened any chinese, japanese, or korean literature knows the "muh racism" arguments are retarded.

I'll just elaborate here and call it a day since we've had this argument a million times already.

>>96382870
I just don't like the concept. Them being mutually exclusive with Kindred is boring and removes far more options than it creates. If there were other pseudovampires or similar intelligent undead all over the world, that'd be one thing. Unfortunately it comes off as very artificial when you have vampires in the pre-columbian america and sub-saharan africa, with no other types of similar undead, but in east asia it's only this alternate thing. That and they're basically a cross-splat you are forced to acknowledge in VtM. If you like cross-splat, and what they're about, I can see why you'd like them. But for me? Nah. Not as it's structured. I'd rather have them gone and do my own thing with Asia.

>>96382924
I have never heard them being bad because of "muh racism". That's nobody's first argument as to why they suck.

>>96381960
Japan also uses the five element wheel. They just call it the Divine Pentagram.
Granted, it was imported from China along with i-ching and taoist mysticism. But it was during the early Heian period and immediately mixed with shinto and buddhist mysticism, hence why Onmyo is a strictly japanese thing.
But you're right. The concept of heretical dharmas should be further developed into more culturally authentic kuei jin "clans."
Except for some SEAsian vamps, like pic related, which in my opinion fit better as lost cainite bloodlines. Look at this and tell me it doesn't scream Vicissitude user.

>>96383024
>If there were other pseudovampires or similar intelligent undead all over the world
Tremere

>>96383024
>I have never heard them being bad because of "muh racism". That's nobody's first argument as to why they suck.
It's the most common argument, actually.

>>96383024
>I have never heard them being bad because of "muh racism"
That's just disingenuous.

>>96383092
>>96383099
I am dead serious, nobody I know IRL has ever said they though the kuei-jin were bad because they're racist. I don't hang out on tumblr and reddit.

Kuei-Jin always reminded me of Katana's description in BG2
>The katana is a single-edged, slightly curved sword that ends with a chisel point. The katana is perhaps one of the finest swords ever made, the steps to its creation a long and secret process, that is more art form than anything else. This blade is an important facet of Kara-Tur culture. To touch or wield a samurai's katana is to insult the samurai and to incite his wrath. For a gaijin, or foreigner, to own such a blade is a rare occurrence. Either the gaijin is a greatly honored friend of an important minister, or the gaijin has murdered a samurai.
Basically a weeb nigger overdosed on tranime and wrote the most retarded garbage anyone has ever seen
>Umm AKSHUALLY Chinkistan doesn't have regular vampires, they're just too cool for that. Their vampires are folded 6 million times
It's absurd to me this garbage was ever OK'd by White Wolf

>>96375763
yeah but it's house tytalus and anon asked what he should join and friends never let friends join house tytalus

>>96383079
>>96383024
>If there were other pseudovampires or similar intelligent undead all over the world
We have
>Wraiths, and yes they can and regularly interact with the material world
>Liches/Yamasattva (mages who freeze their Avatar in stasis and become living dead)
>Non-KOTE Risen, which are Wraiths that return to their bodies. Think Eric Draven from The Crow
>Reanimated Frankenstein Monsters (obviously not Promethean. I mean the Etherite-made undead. They are intelligent, and can even Awaken)
>If Tremere count, then so do the Nagaraja since they're an Euthanatos creation. Gargoyles too since they're an artificial bloodline.
>Mummies
>You could make the argument that Fallen count as undead when taking over a dead/dying body
How many more would you need?

>>96383072
>Except for some SEAsian vamps, like pic related
>Literally depicts the 2 dot flesh shintai power of hungry ghosts

>>96383135
>nobody I know IRL
Fair. Most of the arguments come from larpers and social media freaks.Niether of which are known to frequent actual gamestores.

>>96383024
>Them being mutually exclusive with Kindred
They aren't? India is fully of both cathayans and kindred constantly at war. So does japan. And korea. and Vietnam...
China is actually the only asian country without both vampires now that I think about it. Maybe it had to do with the massive purges china is known for.

Wan Kuei are pretty cool.

Their flair aside I much prefer their ethic mechanics, beast, and power progression to vampire.

The biggest flaw of the gameline is that it was made subordinate to Vampire.

>>96383140
>It's absurd to me this garbage was ever OK'd by White Wolf
Have you every in your life read anything written by whitewolf or are you just here to troll?

>>96383146
TOTAL APPRENTICE DEATH!

>>96383140
Maybe attach less buzzwords to your argument next time.
Every culture has unique monsters and supernaturals. The Kuei-Jin, much like the Hengeyokai and Hsien, are an attempt at representing them.

>>96383176
Artificial kindred don't count, they are by every mechanical consideration Kindred.

Most of those examples are cross-splat, and they don't occupy the same niche as Vampires I should've just said pseudovampire, no or. Normal Risen almost never come up, but the Kuei-Jin are the roadblock to Vampires? So it feels very artificial. You're also under zero obligation to include Liches, Risen, Mummies, etc. But out of the box VtM obliges you to at least acknowledge their existence. Unless of course you want to remove them, but homebrew is the solution to all problems, so there's no debate besides personal taste.

Nobody really bothered defending the kuei-jin until V5 retconned them. It's like star wars fans pretending the EU was good now because the Disney stuff has been worse.

>>96383200
>The biggest flaw of the gameline is that it was made subordinate to Vampire.
They and everyone else. Nearly every gameline started as a spinoff of VtM, and some took multiple editions before they could escape(see mummy: the resurrection). Sorcerer even had the shit luck of briefly escaping vampire for 1 edition only to immediately get sewn to mage like a male angler fish getting raped.

>>96383227
Fuck you, I defended kote for decades before it was cool!

>>96383232
>They and everyone else

I think both pro and anti KJ people can agree it should be its own thing separate from VtM. Both so it can exist on its own terms and also so it can be more easily discarded if you don't like it.

I might go so far as to say that the unhappy middleground oWoD settled on where things weren't so separated that you could easily remove whatever you disliked, but not so put together that things made sense, is the biggest problem with oWoD structurally.

>>96383225
>But out of the box VtM obliges you to at least acknowledge their existence
No... not really. To the point that V5 completely removed them and has kindred in Japan, even a tzimisce retirement home ffs.
Remember: Metaplot is gay and YOUR world of darkness is more important in your table than whatever WW decides fits their story, and this is stated in the very books. If you call simply ignoring the existence of a splat that only really matters if you want a chronicle in east Asia "homebrew" then I guess everything can count as homebrew.

>>96383245
>and has kindred in Japan
There have always been kindred in japan. See: Wod: Tokyo
China is literally the only country without kindred.

>>96383217
funniest thing about the house is that (as of revised) it's only still a house because the others in ex miscellanea do not want them

total reputation death

>>96383227
It was "cool" to hate kote online for the longest time because "orientalism is cringe/racist/whatever."
Offline opinions were more diverse and nuanced. It went from "I don't like it but don't care that much" to "fuck yeah just like my hong kong wuxia wire-fu movies!"

>>96383245
V5 removing them is what started the discussion.

It's homebrew to make up your own stuff going on in Asia, that's what I meant. There's a lot more official material in VtM that acknowledges KotE than any other cross-splat. So it has more baggage to it. I even said if we're all cool with removing or adding whatever you want to the setting then the only argument is personal taste. Do you think I do include them? No, shit man I think VtM is the only oWoD splat that exists at my table.

>>96383176
>Reanimated Frankenstein Monsters (obviously not Promethean. I mean the Etherite-made undead. They are intelligent, and can even Awaken)
They have to be promethean to be able to awaken though, and even then it depends on the book. A frankensteinian monster can be anywhere on the spectrum between ''moving dead body parts'' through ''more typical undead'' to ''promethean''. Of course what exactly makes a promethean a promethean is pretty nebulous in the lore (perhaps a soul?).

>>96383395
Promethean is the Chronicles of Darkness splat.
oWoD didn't have a direct equivalent. At least not as a splat. But Etherite mages often created their own frankensteinian reanimated minions and some have Awakened, which a soul is pretty much needed for.
Mind you, full cyborgs and I'm pretty sure even a robot have Awakened. So what constitutes a soul is also up for debate.

>>96383421
nta, but owod calls it's frankenstein monsters prometheans too but they aren't a template just a stereotypical etherite backstory

>>96383446
there is a short blurb box about them in the Revised Progenitors book that talks about them being common in the Victorian Age. However they can only learn sorcery in that book.

>>96383421
The CofD splat literally lifted the name from a CWoD creature.

>>96383458
yeah as mentioned here >>96375976 don't tell the progenitors that the etherite ones can awaken or they will throw a fit

>>96383467
>don't tell the progenitors
The progenitors already know and don't care. It's the Victors(progenitor clones and super-mutants) that get pissed.

>>96383467
quite literally SOVL vs SOVLESS

>>96382878
>What lawsuit and on what grounds?
Something along the lines of "this is a racial caricature of asians"

>>96383467
>>96383493
Progs are good at biology, so they moved on to better tools.

How do the non-fake gods fit into OWoD?

>>96383539
>"this is a racial caricature of asians"
That's literally not something you can actually sue for(though the law may not stop retards from trying). The only means by which the twitteroids can attack is by screaming on twitter and trying to dox people.

>>96383584
Define "gods". Do you mean:
>Incarnae spirits with infinite power, but limitations on how they interact with material reality
>Aeon spirits with infinite power, but limitations on how they interact with material reality
>Archmages with infinite power, but limitations on how they interact with material reality
>True Fae with infinite power, but limitations on how they interact with material reality

>>96383590
He's trolling.

Any recent news on Mage the Ascension 5th edition, and when do you think it’ll be released? Last I heard back in June, it was in "active development".
Also, is it normal for so much time to pass between WoD releases? By my reckoning, game lines and supplements were being produced much faster back in earlier editions.

>>96383612
DESU with mages, the ascension is coming to realise that you can make your own world with blackjack and hookers. Staying and seething is for losers.

>>96383466
Yeah but that's named for the novel so its' not like they were being inventive there either.

>>96383683
>Any recent news on Mage the Ascension 5th edition
No
>when do you think it’ll be released?
If bloodlines is as much of a clusterfuck as it sounds, they might just cancel it. WoD5 has been a financial disaster so far.
>Also, is it normal for so much time to pass between WoD releases?
No. Even 20th was releasing faster than this when it was purely a kickstarter product.

>>96383710
>Staying and seething is for losers.
Anon already mentioned they were archmages(AKA mages that fucked their chances of ascension by pursuing the archspheres)

>>96383467
You know, what I don't get about Victor's not being able to awaken is that Cyborgs can awaken.
>>96383584
Pretty well, since they are already a thing. Hell, it was a plot point in one of the Dark Ages novels of VTM. MC made a pact with a god to burrow some of his power to defeat a powerful Methuselah Ventrue.

>>96383612
Don't forget the weirder shit from the edges of Mage lore.

>>96383683
>Any recent news on Mage the Ascension 5th edition, and when do you think it’ll be released? Last I heard back in June, it was in "active development".
last news is from last month: jason carls wants it to be the first big project of the new white wolf but that was just something he said in a interview and it was before they hired his new boss so no offical announcement yet

>>96383730
that god is revealed in the next book to be a demon with imp familiar and all

>>96383750
>revealed in the next book to be a demon
What kind? There are as many types of demons as potential "gods"

>>96383750
The only potential demons that can be Telyavel are Earthbound and honestly, Telyavel is way too chill and evil to be an Earthbound Nowhere enough edge.

>>96383750
The only potential demons that can be Telyavel are Earthbound and honestly, Telyavel is way too chill and not evil enough to be an Earthbound. Nowhere enough edge.

>>96383761
doesn't go into much detail beside him being shadowlands related; his forge falls into underworld after it's descrated, he gives his tremere a dark thaumaturgy path about calling drones from the underworld and he soulforges some poor fucks + him having imp servants and his pact with the telyavelic tremere makes them weak to holy symbols like baali

i think the most common assumption in the fandom is that he is either a earthbound or (more likely in my opinion) a malfean

>>96383802
Earthbounds can be nice-ish in a patron spirit kinda way the earthbound book also featured a premade one who was so happy with his role as the guardian spirit of a native american village that he thought god might have forgiven him but of course they are now all dead and he wants to wipe out a state from the map but it's mentioned that he would still even now try to be nice to the wraiths of "his people" it's just that those are as far as he knows all gone

>>96383584
Someone in the previous threads shared a screenshot with Ratatoskr, so pretty well I guess

>>96383584
>>96383827
dead magic 2's intro to the nordic chapter features the critter

he also mentions a bunch of nordic gods and complains about marvel thor being blonde, but i don't think it goes into the nature of the norse phanteon

>>96383750
>that god is revealed in the next book to be a demon with imp familiar and all
I really hate this "tee-hee any god but jewish god is a demon/vampire" trend.

>>96383808
>(more likely in my opinion) a malfean
You mean the wyrm incarnae? I doubt the onceborn have giggling imp servants when they have unlimited spectres on speed dial.

>>96383861
>any god but jewish god
The fuck are you talking about? DtF makes it explicitly clear the abrahamic god is actually Lucifer doing an elaborate LARP.

>>96383843
>and complains about marvel thor being blonde
It's funny how few people know Thor, Ares, and Set are all the same god under different names.

>>96383912
Most people don't give a shit about Set. That's why people don't look that up or care when it is mentioned.

>>96383861
same and i have spoken a lot about how i hate white wolf's treatment of slavic culture and myth already so please don't take me as me being on board with this but anon asked about how gods fit into wod and telyavel is 100% a demon in wod

not that we didn't knew that before the novel as Telyavelic Thaumagury was called Dark dark thaumaturgy Libellus Sanguinis which is also the book series that as far i know introduced the guy. but the tremere clan novel gave far more info about the bloodline and it's patron
>>96383802
>Nowhere enough edge.
we don't see him on the page again but his minions in the next book turn to enslaving hundreds of souls after they get full control of the tribe due to qarakh being forced into topor and mass diablery among themselves as soon as they get cornered so they turn pretty edgy
edgy enough that the tzimisce consider adopting them (back)

>>96383912
even worse that white wolf didn't get that despite featuring Set as the red haired storm lord in other books

because you see the norse god these chucklehead use as the norse stand in for set is loki

>>96383973
>WhiteWolf missed the fact that Loki is one of the guises of a thousand-faced god, one of whose faces is Osiris
The amount of drama whitewolf missed because of their historical illiteracy is heartbreaking.

>>96383912
Most religions back then looked at each other and said "we're actually both right, your gods are actually the same as mine, we just know them by different aspects". Nowadays there are people seething and coping if you dare to sneeze twice when the holy book said you should've sneezed once.

>>96383958
>Telyavelic Thaumagury was called Dark dark thaumaturgy Libellus Sanguinis which is also the book series that as far i know
Get your facts straight, man. Sielanic Thaumaturgy is NOT Dark Thaumaturgy. A Tremere can learn them as paths, while DT is a separate discipline, for all that it apes something old Thaumaturgy already did in 90% cases.

Telyavel, by his original description in Libellus Sanguinus should be named Veles/Velinas, BTW. Telyavel is a craftsman god and has nothing to do with the dead, nature, or magic. Classic case of WW writers not bothering to do elementary research. And that's why he's portrayed as a smith in that other book, WW writers trying to save face and doing it wrong as usual.

>>96384078
>Nowadays
That's not new. The jews being weird cultists that refused to participate in syncretism is why everyone has historically hated them, even before christ told them to stop fucking over their own temples.

Kuei-Jin aren't real? *takes your vampire and tapes its eyelids out to the side* fuck you cocksucker fucking die

>>96381769
Also if at some point you spot a spooky owl-thing with glowing yellow eyes, don't get scared, they're very friendly. Go talk to them, they always have good advice.

>>96384091
>Get your facts straight, man. Sielanic Thaumaturgy is NOT Dark Thaumaturgy. A Tremere can learn them as paths, while DT is a separate discipline, for all that it apes something old Thaumaturgy already did in 90% cases.
yes but that does not make them not Dark Thaumaturgy or i guess i should say infernalism. you can learn Dark Thaumaturgy paths as part of the normal Thaumaturgy discipline when it's not taught to you by a demon
this happened even on faction level scale in the meta plot as in the first sabbat book hands of destruction was a dark Thaumaturgy path and became considered a normal Thaumaturgy path later due to sabbat tremere studying it and codifying it enough to teach each other the path without involving a demon (why ever they would bother to do with this path of all things who knows) while path of the shadow world goes the other way around because it was originally taught by a demon and the non demonic teachers for it die off
>This path disappears with the demise of the Telyavelic bloodline, though it is rumored to have become subsumed as part of Dark Thaumaturgy and other Infernal Disciplines (see Dark Ages Companion for more information)

>>96384125
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zkL91LzCMc

>>96384173
Like I said, DT is in 90% cases a rip-off of the normal Thaumaturgy and/or pagan practices, but it doesn't make normal Thaumaturgy or those pagan practices in any way obligatorily related to DT or infernalism.

guys am i or the st the retard here?

i got peer pressured into playing a tzimisce for the first time and whenever i try something with vicissitude i get either told that i can't or that i please shouldn't because it's not supported by the rules
>hidden weapons like a saw off shotgun in a arm
i can't use them even when i build myself a extra finger into my arm because that's going to far
>grafting extra arms unto me
not supported
then what are the first 3 dots of this discipline for? i wasted 3 dots worth of exp and all i got to do so far is making attack ghouls that are barely worth the effort because my st is also using a standard stat block for these and changing how the other player look like

>>96384244
>i got peer pressured into playing a tzimisce
You are a retard.

>>96384206
no of course not but sadly (and again sadly as i would have prefered some non infernal pagan magic bloodlines instead and i had to wait for dav20 france by night to get a good one) it does so for the telvanics because they are a unbeknownst to themselves just one stone throw away from being a baali line

they even lose most of their sorcery after their demonic shrine (the imp's smith workshop) goes back to hell and only their founder can make up some make shift magic by diablerizing most of her followers to turn herself into a spectre of vengence.. which then still does not save her
guys are pretty pathetic infernalists and it sucks

>>96384244
That's really the problem of Vicissitude. You need ST consent for creative uses, which is a very Mage thing, but it runs against the tone of the average Vampire game. If the ST pressured you into being a Tzimisce, but you two didn't work out the limits of its power, it's their fault.

>>96384244
should have put your points into animalism

>>96384244
>grafting extra arms unto me
>not supported
that's false in v20. before v20 there weren't rules for it but Kartarirya (a tzimisce) had eight arms and there been rules for it you could get from other gamelines (i personally use dtf custom demon form rules for extra arms) and v20 made rules for it, but they also made it a 6 dot power

>>96384244
>hidden weapons like a saw off shotgun in a arm
This is 100% something Viss can do bu the third dot
>grafting extra arms unto me
Explicitly called out as impossible before Viss 6. You can only use the meat already attached to you with Viss 1-3, this is prevent players making armies of Vhozd at the start of the game.
> am i or the st the retard here?
Your ST sounds retarded for pressuring you to play the geiger art boipunk crafters clan and trying to nerf the biopunk crafting discipline. Tell him to either back the fuck off or let you play a different clan.

>>96384339
It only takes 6 dots to graft flesh from one person onto a different person. The first 3 dots are enough to make new limbs from existing bone, muscle, and skin.

>>96384311
>You need ST consent for creative uses, which is a very Mage thing
That's not mage at all. You don't need St concent for using your spheres. Even in revised, the books actually tell STs to fuck-off if they're trying to be controlling freaks in a mage game.

>>96384244
>>96384339
>grafting extra arms unto me
Graft is Vicissitude 6.
>With normal Vicissitude, a Tzimisce may take the arm from one person and graft it to another, but the recipient is unable to control the arm and it soon begins to decay. With this power, the user may take body parts from living creatures and graft them on to others, living or undead, and allow for the recipient to use the new limb. Exceptionally monstrous and disturbing creatures can be created with this power or one may graft extra organs into others, allowing them to function longer while wounded.System: Removing a limb requires an Intelligence + Body Crafts roll (difficulty 6). Extracting an organ is an extended Intelligence + Body Crafts roll (difficulty 7),with 10 successes required and each roll representing an hour of work. The process of grafting must then begin within an hour, or the limb or organ dies. Attachment is an extended roll of Intelligence + Body Crafts (difficulty 7), requiring 10 successes and each roll representing half an hour’s work. Attaching an appropriate limb, such as a human arm to a human, is difficulty 7. Attaching an inappropriate limb, such as horse legs to a human, is difficulty 8. Inserting organs is difficulty 9. Attaching limbs to a vampire is somewhat easier (difficulty 6).Theoretically, one could put organs inside a vampire,but this has no effect.The effect of attaching extra limbs is entirely up to the Storyteller. Extra arms might help in grappling and multiple attacks and extra legs might aid stability, but the main effect is generally freakishness rather than effectiveness, since coordinating the extra limbs is very difficult. Extra organs grant the recipient an additional Wounded health level per organ, though a maximum of two can be grafted.
I'd allow it as fifth dot, though you could never learn the other fifth dot power if you take it.

>>96384244
Playing Tzimisce is already hard if you aren't playing Old Clan and ST pressured you to it?

I be honest, fuck that ST.
>>96384376
Since everything runs on ST, they can say fuck the books and do it anyway if they want.

>>96384475
>they can say fuck the books and do it anyway if they want
Sure, the golden rule exists. That doesn't mean the golden rule is not the default, otherwise wtf would be the point of the books?
STs that try to be controlling with mage are retards. Plain and simple. The game is about the consequences and responsibility of being able to do virtually anything.

>>96384302
Or hear me out, you can just ignore the retarded parts of the novel and use the original lore. The novels contradict main books often enough as it is.

>>96384511
>That doesn't mean the golden rule is not the default
*That doesn't mean the golden rule is the default
I was saying the golden rule modifies the base rules, it's not the other way around.

If you wanted to play an aided in dark ages mage, what pillars are best used as a base and what adjustments could/should be made?

>>96384654
>play an aided
What?

>>96384658
Irish doom magi, a part of the euthanatoi. They get a writeup in the revised tradbook

How would you guys run WoD in the Balkans? Considering the folk tales, superstition etc I crank all the paranormals and splats per capita up a bit

>>96384754
Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, and Demon all have major plot happenings in the Balkans.

>>96384754
There's not actually any more supernaturals than usual, the place is just such a shithole that people get sloppier with the masquerade.

>>96384754
probably lean more into the folk horror aspect of WoD

Is qyrl actually the wyrm or is it a separate entity

>>96384857
It's just a manifestation of the wyrm, taking the form of the devouring horrors of the deep sea.
Either that or the rokea have a speech impediment.

>>96384754
Which supernatural race and faction is most likely to go A NUUUUU CHIKI BRIKI I V DAMKE

>>96384857
>>96384916
Qyrl seems chiller than a normal Wyrm avatar.
Especially when you consider the designated protagonists and their kill-kill-kill mentality.

Less Wyrm coded than Ananasa, for that matter.

>>96385045
>Qyrl seems chiller than a normal Wyrm avatar.
Likely because of the background context. The ocean is as ecologically or metaphysically imbalanced as the land-world is, while also being much larger. Unlike the garou, who were gleefully making way for the wyrm to cause the apocolypse with their retardation, the rokea are fully capable of performing their intended function without imploding.

>>96385028
An Ukrainian or Romanian (different language, same mentality) Sabbat Tzimisce embraced in the last forty-sixty years, hands down.

Giving blood magic/sorcery to everyone was really stupid and just makes everything less unique.

How's your V5 chronicle going

>>96385152
Everyone keeps trying to get themselves killed to get out of it

>>96385139
Anon, each blood magic tradition has path they are and aren't capable of and a list of rituals unique to them(unless you're a tremere thaumaturge, then you don't have a banned list and can use whatever).
That's like saying giving disciplines to all vampires was a mistake and makes them less unique.

>>96385160
>that's like saying [totally different thing]
Every day here with this

>>96385176
>Your comparison is wrong because I say so
Every day here with this.

There any VtR bloodlines that have sound powers? I have a character idea

>>96385213
Baddacelli, Nosferatu bloodline with a sound-based Discipline. Starts out as echolocation, ends up as Black Canary.

>>96385218
Or should I say, starts out as Daredevil (echolocation) and ends up as Black Canary (literally scream people's flesh right off their bones). The drawback is, joining the bloodline strikes you irreversibly blind. Hence Daredevil.

>>96385160
>blood magic tradition has path they are and aren't capable of and a list of rituals unique to them
Fat load of bullshit. I still remember assmite writers all but shitting themselves from their impatient urge to claim any freshly printed path and ritual that was any good, and loudly whining on BBS about like only ritual they weren't allowed to steal.

>>96385499
How it's supposed to work and how it actually works. The retardation od whitewolf writers knows no limits and their capacity to ruin an amazing IP is awe-inspiring(as-in the ye-olde version of "Awe" that was a very BAD thing).

>>96368010
I liked the idea of Alien: The stranded, specifically the idea that their source of power is their space ship. It was a unique take of power where it's a vehicle and not some weapon or innate power

>>96368100
One way you could do it is the classic "magic is just poorly understood science" route, or more a variant of it. I'll agree in that say magic is science is boring and bullshit but there can be a way to do it if you say that soem parts of it are science. The aliens can square away a few bits of the strangeness but not everything, the magic still has power that unknown to even super science. Not just that but you can even go the Super Science angle. They took what would be magic (quintessence for example) and turned into a fuel source for their science. They have magic its just that they can't use it in a way that not through pure tech
Another way you could do it is make it so that various alien races have ONE supernatural aspect to them that they've integrated into their science. One has spirit science, another psychics, the third has weird collective consensus powers.
I'm spitballing but i think it could be done

I decided to do the idea of Serpentis, specifically the "turn into a snake" power. Thanks to everyone for your suggestions and ideas!

How much can a ghoul get away with bullying the local vampires (mostly those of low status) if he's a direct enforcer of the Prince's will?

>>96385708
He better have good stats and talents cuz even low level vamps aren't going to take shit from a glorified walking bag of blood.

>>96385539
>I'll agree in that say magic is science is boring and bullshit
My guy, if magic is a repeatable process that can be studied, then it literally is science. Even in fantasy worlds.
"Science" does not mean "modern technology". Science is just the study of things that can be understood and repeated. If person a can learn to cast fireball, teach someone else how, and then they can also cast fireball, then they've just performed science.

>>96385708
How strong is that ghoul, and who is he bullying? Cause tremere or tzimisce's favourite crime against god and nature or a ghoul of a brujah or nosferatu methuselah, or an experienced, successful vampire hunter can bully anyone short of a regent or low-gen primogen, but ventrue's pet pouncy fop acting uppity would be smeared by first brujah or gangrel they come across, then everyone would pretend that nobody seen him.

>>96385708
>How much can a ghoul get away with bullying
Is the prince a methusela and the ghoul ancient enough to have level 3-5 disciplines?
If the answer to either question is no, then even trying to bully kindred will see him in a body bag and the prince will have replaced him in less than 5 minutes.

>>96385539
>I'll agree in that say magic is science is boring and bullshit but there can be a way to do it if you say that soem parts of it are science.
Weirdly, wod goes with the opposite interpretation: science is magic we've just gotten used to.
>The aliens can square away a few bits of the strangeness but not everything, the magic still has power that unknown to even super science.
The technocracy would like a word.

Jesus was a vampire

>>96385819
In cofd? He definitely wasn't one in wod(he was probably lucifer though).

>>96385725
>>96385789
>>96385805
>Picture Jack Reacher, similar background and skills.
>Now make him a greedy opportunistic asshole.
>Now give him a background in drug-running and arms smuggling.
>Now give him a network of contacts lingering after his dishonorable discharge.
>Now jack him up with Ventrue vitae.
>Now give him years of experience navigating the vampire political scene.

>>96385876
>Now watch him die to the average homeless brujah
>Now watch as he can't even fight back because of celerity extra actions

>>96385708
the vampires are made, and the ghouls aren't, there's nothing you can do

>>96385819
>>96385824
Jesus was at best, a guy with true faith 6+ or a low end mage. Despite the importance of his cult he really didn't do anything all that noteworthy in life.

>>96385929
That indeed is the punchline of the whole affair. If this were your average action thriller or cowadoody ripoff he would be the BBEG and probably final boss. But this is Vampire so he's relegated to a middle-manager enforcer of an ancient undead monster.

>>96385548
Pretty cool sketch!

>>96384754
>How would you guys run WoD in the Balkans?
A travelling Hunter cadre goes to deal with a mythic creature only to realize that all their gear has been stolen.

>>96385972
>Despite the importance of his cult he really didn't do anything all that noteworthy in life.
>Said about a dude who fully resurrected a dead guy. Something that requires faith 10 or high level of Life+Mind+Spirit

>>96383140
>It's absurd to me this garbage was ever OK'd by White Wolf
Just wait until you discover all the other racist shit in the Old World of Darkness.

>>96386161
If jesus was a proto-chorister, he'd need the equivalent of Life 5(resurrect the dead), Matter 5(create food from nothing), Forces 5(stop a storm), and Spirit 4(Bind/Exorcise/Repel demons).
In mage terms, he'd be pretty fucking terrifying.

In mage the ascension, is there any mechanic for what happens when a mage's belief in their own paradigm is shaken? Like if a technomagi got shown irrefutable proof that their inventions don't actually work when they aren't around?

>>96386161
Lazarus was just a vampire and Jesus was just there. Either that or he had a Demon Lore set.

>>96386219
Paradigms by design and intention aren't mechanical, but completely losing their magical ability for a while is not in question. Decoupling a mage from her tradition is hard, though. You're more likely to elicit obscenity-laden denial and violence.

Only Technocracy streamlined the conversion process to something reliable, and even then it's not a quick demonstration with Dementation or Dominate equivalent thrown in, but an extensive conditioning procedure.

>>96386204
Did he actually create food from nothing? If I remember right, he fed thousands of people with a few loaves of bread. I think you could get away with saying it was also using Life, he actually made them less hungry instead of creating more food. Obviously doesn't really matter, just funny to think about.

>>96386219
People have an amazing ability to cope in new ways. Maybe that invention has a DNA scanner and doesn't recognize an authorized user. Maybe that guy didn't do mystic chants, but perhaps he's so good he doesn't need to. Maybe the blood sacrifice didn't work, we need to refine and remove the impurities and try again. Or maybe they come to the conclusion it's actually sorcery. Not like seeing a vampire jump twenty feet in the air requires believing in a certain paradigm. There might be other ways to practice magic, but their personal paradigm is the strongest/easiest/righteous or otherwise best way.

>>96386490
>People have an amazing ability to cope in new ways.
In the short term sure, but the moment you plant the seed of doubt in someone's head, they have a funny habit of watering it themselves.
You see this most often with deconverts from religions. It typically starts with something seemingly innocuous or easily dismissable, like noticing a disconnect with a religious act and the reason behind it, but just noticing in the first place changes how they look at everything and forces them to notice More things.
The technomagi in the example above may explain the "malfunction" in the moment, but his scientific curiosity will likely drive him to figure out Why it failed and begin running diagnostic tests on all his new devices, which he'll inevitably notice don't always react in a way that's logical to science...

>>96386550
>the moment you plant the seed of doubt in someone's head, they have a funny habit of watering it themselves
For some people, sure. For many others though, it's the opposite. For apostates like you mentioned, they might've noticed something illogical and then it grew from there. But for others, they noticed something illogical and then explained it away with an illogical idea of their own. They actually strengthen their belief, because from their pov they tested it and it stayed true. See real life doomsday cults, where leaders predict apocalypse all the time and inevitably get it wrong, but many of their followers stay because they justify it to themselves. Or even just go to a church, I can remember so many people who had a story about how they had a lapse of faith at one point but then came back even more devout because of one reason or another, and they all congratulated each other on finding the right path. Paradigm isn't just a piece of knowledge that can be learned, it's how the person views the world, and that's much harder to shake. For your example, the Technocracy fully understands technology is not the only way to do magic, they straight up call the other guys "Reality Deviants". Or maybe the illogical phenomenon is some new scientific principle waiting to be discovered and understood, that happens all the time even IRL and I'm sure an Etherite could come up with some better bullshit.

>>96385972
Jesus literally forced Nodes/Caerns to move, moonbridges to collapse or redirect and all evil demonic entities to either get the fuck out his presence or be broken down until they can't even move.
He also has something to do with Set being dead since Set cried like a bitch and disappeared.

>>96386690
Yeah, he was probably Arete 5+ and Prime and Spirit 5. Of course, assuming he was a Mage and not an actual living god.
Sure, things like turning water into wine and multiplying bread and fish aren't crazy feats for a mage, most of that can be done at 2-3 dots in Matter and Prime. Not sure if dead-but-safe to eat fish would need Life. Walking on water could either be Forces to manipulate surface tension or gravity, or Matter to make liquids behave like solids.
But the other shit he did in-universe? Much more impressive.

>>96386768
Or you know someone with 10 dots of true faith.
They can pull out any kind of bullshit they feel like.

A talk about Jesus, with magefags involved, without demonfags poking their greasy mugs out and going 'hurf ackchually'?

Something is amiss.

>>96386847
It's very late in the US; they are sleeping.

>>96386847
hey dtf fag here and i don't remember jesus being mentioned all that much in dtf
dtf wants to "blame" christanity on lucifer after all and all the viewpoint characters been out of this world while jesus was around

>>96386847
>demonfags
A group of people that basically don't exist, had the guy above me not replied I'd have said straight up don't exist

>>96386931
don't worry i don't exist! i am the tulpa of a guy called jeff

i just like dtf because i also want to take over a human body and use it to reduce the torment of my existence

>>96386219
they usually rationalize it like a technomage being shown that normies can't use his toys will call them too unenlightened, traditional magic are psychic powers, rituals are reality programming done by people who don't really know how it works (and amoung non technomages they say that everyone else is doing rituals somewhat wrong)etc some etherites especially are so good at it that they can flat out steal other traditions magic

people who are so into a certain set of beliefs that it gives them superpowers tend to take those pretty far

Lore of the Traditions p127:
>"Then there’s that fucking tech billionaire, like so many others. A failed or Fallen student of the Kitab al-Alacir lost to his own depravity, fucker had the audacity to acquire an energy company named for an Etherite, bastardizing that legacy by affiliating with human-traffickers catering to the wealthiest echelons."
Lol wut, Elon is a Nephandus?

>>96387005
>M20
Yes. In fact if you want to read more of this Bruccatoslop, you should pirate Book of the Fallen. Elon gets multiple paragraphs of Satyros bitching about him and crypto.

beside the stuff related to the avatar storm are there any other mechanical differences between mage second ed and revised that i should keep in mind when mixing them?

>>96387108
IIRC Sphere and Arete experience costs are inflated in Revised, so a lot of people prefer to lower them to 2e or even 1e costs.
Also I don't remember which book suggests this, but if your players are having too much bad rolls when casting, you can roll Arete + Sphere instead of just Arete.

>>96387108
Aspects and resonances, Revised has more sample effects in general.
If you are an aspiring storyteller IMO Revised is better as a baseline if you just:
• make casting roll Arete + lowest Sphere involved
• start every player with two-three free Arete dots and Stormwarden Merit
• reduce xp costs multipliers by one and provide books, mentors or treatments that reduce the cost of specific trait to new rating now and then
• and issue Seekings as rewards for good roleplaying now and then, with no xp cost
Never make Seekings easy and don't feel obligated to issue them if you don't think you can handle adepts or masters, or don't want to raise the stakes though.

>>96387124
>Also I don't remember which book suggests this, but if your players are having too much bad rolls when casting, you can roll Arete + Sphere instead of just Arete.
Storyteller's Handbook Revised
I would also recommend Arete + Sphere (Highest used in Effect)

>>96384754
>instead of 1 sabbat there is the serbian sabbat, croatian sabbat, and bosnian sabbat and they all kill each other on sight

>>96387658
>>96387658
>>96387658
NEW BREAD
also coming up with a TQ is hard :(

>>96387632
stealing that idea