Thread 96372932

What makes Cyberpunk so appealing, and why hasn't it caught on compared to other genres and systems?

>>96372932 (OP)
>What makes Cyberpunk so appealing
Sexo

>>96372932 (OP)
What other systems? DnD has literally monopolized the niche. And all because most systems are made by nerds who know how to make systems, but don't know how to sell them properly.

>>96372956
>And all because most systems are made by nerds who know how to make systems, but don't know how to sell them properly.
Reminder Critical Role just made a "DND killer" then strangled it in the crib by choosing DND 5e for their new season instead of the game they JUST made. KWAB.

>>96372932 (OP)
>so appealing
>hasn't it caught on
Why did you change your mind about its popularity halfway through your sentence? What opinion do you even have?

>>96373060
Clearly there are cyberpunk fans but for some reason that doesn't translate into tabletop popularity
I think it's a bit too high concept and fiddly (like most scifi) for the general elfgames population

>>96373300
When the basic formula is: Go into dungeon, kick down the door, fight the thing inside, and take its shit it's not exactly intellectually taxing or demanding.

Shadowrun basically does the same thing except the dungeon is a corporate building and the prize is some corporate documents and the dungeon ruling lich is a mid level manager and his security team

>>96373019
D&D is more popular

>>96373340
Cyberpunk is different because it could be just meeting up with a ripperdoc to install new hardware and along the way thugs in an allyway open fire on you then the police show up and finally militec and all you wanted was a pepsi

>>96373060
>What do you or someone you know find so provocative about the genre or setting?
>How come it's not more dominant in the player space and easier to find groups?

Cyberpunk RED is doing no favors to it. The system is the most popular becuase of the "Cyberpunk" in the game, but it's one of the worst set of rules to run a cyberpunk-themed game.

The manual is also a mess, and the lore doesn't match the rules for it.

If you add that the most popular cyberpunk-ish products right now are the videogame and the anime, and those try to directly funnel you to CPRED, it's a dead end.

The Talsorian games team is all over the place with the tone and direction they want for the game. And their "official supplements" have encouraged people to play full furry characters.

This, along with the sexual nature of some scenes in the anime and videogame, have attracted a group of degenerate/gooners (and possibly pedos) that make random internet tables really cringy.

So it's not the genre's fault. It's the current hobby scene situation.

>>96372932 (OP)
RED is literally one of the top 5 most popular systems out now. Of course it’s not gonna touch D&D but as far as the hobby goes it’s not niche. It’s outperforming Shadowrun even.

>>96373388
>This, along with the sexual nature of some scenes in the anime and videogame, have attracted a group of degenerate/gooners (and possibly pedos) that make random internet tables really cringy.
While I think there was always an element of that, it's interesting that RED in particular is marketing itself directly to the kind of person that 2020 would cast as an NPC illustrating how fucked up the future is. RED makes a lot of sense to me if I view it as a Cyberpunk RPG made from the perspective of a 2020 character.

>>96372932 (OP)
I wanna learn to play Cyberpunk. Where do I start? Are there any interesting streams where I can learn while I listen until I can run my own game?

>>96373388
Despite being a REDfag and actually liking the system very much, I must admit this is true.
The game was fairly popular back then, and is a classic for a reason, nonetheless they were saved by CDPR.
I myself, quite obsessed with the universe lore n shit, only came to the franchise after 2077 was released.
I also agree on other points, their official discord (moderated heavily, mind you) is just... idk, getting muted for misgendering is an mild sentence.
I'm aware that a naturally thranshumanist genre would and had attracted all sorts of degenerates, but maybe I live in too much of a third world shithole to be dying my hair green and cutting my dick off.

>>96373388
>And their "official supplements" have encouraged people to play full furry characters.
That was a thing in 2020 already

>>96373513
>that picture

>>96373557
I'm sorry.

>>96372932 (OP)
>What makes Cyberpunk so appealing
2020, RED and 2077 all have a lot of character and atmosphere that you just don't get in other works, and it's all thanks to Pondsmith being an autist inspired by Neuromancer. Though he has his faults (African lore is basically boring ass afro utopia where niggas focus on colonizing space).
>why hasn't it caught on compared to other genres and systems?
2020 is a crunchy system that is deceptively difficult, but actually gets a lot better once you pay attention and don't overload every encounter with unnecessary rulings and other shit. RED is a messy, unbalanced system with meme supplements that can't find it's footing and continuously creates frustrating design decisions. Despite that, it's one of the most popular systems right now, very welcoming to normies.
Simply put, these games lag behind because they're either very old and are not welcoming to new players, or have a problem of being all over the place. Not to mention that RED failed to immediately capitalise on release of 2077 and Edgerunners and took a while to release a kit for that, and from what I've heard, normies specifically wanted to play in that setting.

>>96373497
Go to the respective thread and start with RED. If you want crunch, find books for 2020. It's a pretty simulationist game that stays fun without becoming obnoxious, and its respective supplements mostly just give you more lore and guns/cyberware to toy with, and the occasional role/skill that almost never comes up in your games. Except if you're actually cool and wanna allow Power Armor Operators in your game.

>>96373546
In 2020 it was something done by the very rich in order to be extravagant. You would not find a furry selling crack on the street.

RED triend to be inclusive in the worst possible way.

And the thing about the lore not matching the mechanics is true.

A biosculpt is something so cheap it doesn't make sense that anyone would remain not-a-biosculpted-model.

They added robot-wheelchairs when there's both clone limbs and cyberlegs.

They say cars are very rare and then never make an effort to describe a city without cars. They are in fact very easy to get.

The list just keep going. Too long to list here.

>>96373497
Read the Cyberpunk 2020 core book. Then watch these movies. Then mash the ideas from those movies into one setting. Then play.

>>96372932 (OP)
It's appealling to a small minority of roleplayers who like modern topics and scifi technology. The rest are trying to get away from those things and so much prefer fantasy and settings completely unrelated to contemporary Earth. RPGs are an escape from the modern world for most people so they don't want more "modern world" in their games.

>>96373852
RED is such a strange game to swallow after playing 2020. There was a corporate war recently that warped the planet in several ways, yet the rulings fail to reflect that. Even with the argument that technology advances and gets cheaper, things like biosculpting should remain outside of peasant's reach.

>>96373923
pretty much this, normgroids don't like cyberpunk because it's as depressive as our reality but with a caveat that we get cool cybernetics

>>96373879
Some of those pictures are comics and novels, not movies.

>>96372932 (OP)
>why hasn't it caught on compared to other genres and systems?
Because it ISN'T so appealing.

>>96372932 (OP)
>What makes Cyberpunk so appealing
For me, it's the combination of all the social problems we have today with advanced technology that, in a much better world, would improve things, but instead makes everything so much worse.
>and why hasn't it caught on compared to other genres and systems?
Cyberpunk isn't on D&D's level when it comes to popularity, but it's definitely caught on thanks 2077 and Edgerunners. A shame to see Shadowrun so low, though.
>>96373497
There's some actual play videos in which Mike Pondsmith is the GM. No better place to learn than from the man himself (besides just reading the book, of course).
>>96373879
>No Black Rain
>No Ghost in the Shell
>No Tron
>Not a single Hong Kong action movie
This list sucks. Also, >>96374028.

>>96372932 (OP) (OP)
>What makes Cyberpunk so appealing
For me, it's the combination of all the social problems we have today with advanced technology that, in a much better world, would improve things, but instead makes everything so much worse.
>and why hasn't it caught on compared to other genres and systems?
Cyberpunk isn't on D&D's level when it comes to popularity, but it's definitely caught on thanks to 2077 and Edgerunners. A shame to see Shadowrun so low, though.
>>96373497
There's some actual play videos in which Mike Pondsmith is the GM. No better place to learn than from the man himself (besides just reading the book, of course).
>>96373879
>No Alien or Aliens
>No Black Rain
>No Ghost in the Shell
>No Tron
>Not a single Hong Kong action movie or heist movie
This list sucks. Also, >>96374028.

>>96373341
It's still pathetic

>>96372932 (OP)
The self inflicted destruction Shadowrun's IP, which was the more popular system in the 90s and 00s. Not even the HBD games could save it.

>>96373942
Is it though? Plenty of broke people get tats, BBLs, and so on.

>>96372932 (OP)
appealing to whom?

>>96373300
and there's your problem, you're relying on fans for sales. people who play d&d aren't fans of d&d, they're not even fans of games. they play d&d because they remember somebody mentioning it offhand six weeks ago and a friend of a friend of a friend mentioned starting a game in the group chat, and it seemed like a thing to do.

if you want to succeed, you have to convince people who don't give a shit about you to buy your shit.

>>96373348
If that's what the OP intended, then that's what he should have written.

>>96372932 (OP)
I think it's more a question of what prevents Cyberpunk from being appealing. Cyberpunk media and products have never broken into the mainstream, except for one single anime that appealed to normies by simply not focusing on the real nature of Cyberpunk themes and instead presenting itself as a tragic love story. Which is anti-cyberpunk in its entire messaging. From the start it's about good people taking care of a young punk, rather than exploiting and abusing him as just another cog in their mercenary group. Even the people who betray the gang end up feeling bad about it later and un-betraying them.
>Why was Edgerunners popular and everything else isn't? Because cyberpunk is a genre for nerds, not real people. Either the depiction of the corporate dystopian future or the ugliness of cyberware turns people off of the whole thing

>>96372932 (OP)
>Cyberpunk
>appealing
I can't stand settings that make everyone ugly on purpose. Fuck Cyberpunk, fuck Shadowrun, fuck everything to do with the entire aesthetic.

>>96374365
>From the start it's about good people taking care of a young punk, rather than exploiting and abusing him as just another cog in their mercenary group.
A group of mercenaries who were fully intending to rip a valuable piece of cyberware out of a teenager until he proved his worth to them is your idea of good?

>>96374372
What the fuck are you even talking about?

>>96374400
Except they couldn't commit. They pussied out and adopted him instead, even though he had zero marketable skills as a merc, hadn't even killed a man before. No mercs on the streets of Night City would survive with hearts that soft. The only thing Edgerunners did right was showing the whole gang fall apart because of their bleeding hearts

>>96374426
The show makes it clear that they only give David a pass because Maine owed his mom a favour.

>>96374426
You're exaggerating and barely know what it is you're even talking about. Maine's crew didn't "pussy out." David already had the Sandevistan installed, knew how to use it and could tolerate its use way more than the average person could. Not taking him on would've been a waste of talent. On top of that, Maine knew David's mom, who just died. Bringing him into the crew was a favor to her.

>>96374454
>>96374482
And here comes the Edgerunners defense force trying to defend that steaming pile of shit show. Maine was a pussy, the whole show emphasizes he's nowhere near as hard as he tries to pass himself off as, even loses his fucking mind in the end because he's such a gigantic weeping pussy and punches his own ticket like the stupid faggot he is

>>96374492
Bait used to be believable.

>>96374492
Oh look, another basement dweller trying to look like a manly man and failing miserably. Go outside and touch some grass, neet.

>>96374510
I bet $10 that he's just mentally ill.

>>96374218
Yeah, but these aren't really comparable to biosculpting. I don't mind players finding alternative means, I just dislike the widespread availability.

>>96374510
I accept your concession
>>96374512
retard can't even defend Maine because he fucked up and you know it, lol. None of the problems in the show would've even happened if Maine had kept it together, but he was too soft, always had been

>>96374492
edgerunners is shit, but everything stated about david getting into the crew is not objectionable, and maine wasn't as much of a retard you think he is
you should complain more about how his character exists solely to be fuel for david's development and he turns out boring as a result

>>96374556
Anon, he's just baiting for (You)s.

>>96373852
>>96373942
Red is stupid because people wanted 2077 but Pondsmith wanted the cyberpunk equivalent of mudcore

>>96373388
>cyberpunk red one of the worst set of rules to run a cyberpunk-themed game.
Checked, but strongly disagree.
Which systems would be better to run cyberpunk games? Apart from Cyberpunk 2020, that is, which yeah, I agree, is a much better system than Red.

>>96374359
>people who play d&d aren't fans of d&d, they're not even fans of games
Well I kind of am though, that's an absurd opinion to hold

>>96374426
Do you also hate films like Heat and Collateral because the bad guys show some humanity (which gets them killed too)?

>>96372944
Agreed, but this particular panel she looked really derpy and weird, weirdly fitting for that vulnerable moment I suppose, but she's not sexo here

>>96374601
nta, but the rulebook is legit one of the shittiest ive ever seen when it comes to navigation and explanation. the rules are at the same time too much and too little depending on what aspect of gameplay youre talking about, and its clear they know this with how things are being smoothed over with the edgerunner supplements. if i was interested in this id hold for when the 2077 version is fully released rather than have to navigate all the content that has come out

>>96374786
RED’s rulebook is significantly easier to parse than 2020’s

>>96374828
Comparing two turds and saying one is less smelly doesn't make it better. They are both still shit.

>>96374601
You ask about better systems yet mention none.

Almost any system works better. Depending on the kind of story you want to tell, (and crunch) and in no particular order:
Neon city overdrive, blade runner, outgunned, elysium/mechatron, mothership, GURPS, even fucking tricube tales has a cuberpunk supplement that works better.

And many more.
A systems doesn't have to be cyberpunk in nature to run a cyberpunk game.
Call of cthulhu could also work.

>>96375102
>blade runner
This is a sci-fi police procedural game, not a proper Cyberpunk game. Very good, too hyperfocused.
>>96375102
>elysium/mechatron
Mutant is not cyberpunk unless you're playing the third edition of the Swedish rules.
>>96375102
>mothership
Not Cyberpunk, overrated.
>>96375102
>GURPS
Good but too heavy on new GMs.
>>96375102
>Call of cthulhu could also work
Just roll a game using the BRP book instead then.

>>96373300
That's not what high concept means.

>>96375290
Wooooosh. You missed the whole point.

By your logic:
>Cyberpunk Red
You can play as a corpo rat and a cop. Not a cyberpunk game.

So you need a chick with a robot arm in the cover in order for you to use the rules for a cyberpunk game?

Ok. I'm done here.

>>96375795
>You can play as a corpo rat and a cop. Not a cyberpunk game.
You can play as them, playing them doesn't disqualify it from being a Cyberpunk game.
>>96375795
>So you need a chick with a robot arm in the cover in order for you to use the rules for a cyberpunk game?
Nice strawman anon.

>>96375548
Low concept, then. Makes less sense that way to ol'ESL me but I larnt something

>>96376034
Lol, still not right.
>High concept: emphasis on a striking and easily communicable idea.
>Low Concept: a character-driven narrative that emphasizes internal character development, relationships, and psychological depth over a flashy, easily summarized "hook" or premise, making it harder to pitch in a single sentence but connecting with audiences through emotional resonance.

>>96376064
Well, fuck you too, niggerfaggot.

>>96376177
I'm not saying fuck you, I'm trying to help you convey your thoughts better.

The "high concept" thing is a pet peeve of of mine, people use it a lot to mean "complicated concept," when it is, in fact, the opposite of that. Just say complicated concept.

>>96375102
I love using the Year Zero system to build cyberpunk and mad max games. I've also used Fallout and the Cypher system, but YZE is my favourite.

>>96372932 (OP)

Why would it get on now? We're living in post-cyberpunk world. Its time as a genre has come almost half a century ago.

You wouldn't have expected a renaissance of golden age scifi in the ninties.

>>96376409
Any tips for building a cyberpunk game through the Year Zero engine?

>>96374492
>And here comes the Edgerunners defense force
As it should, because you're just straight up wrong about a goated series.

>>96376317

NTA, but as a native English speaker, "high concept" is a very misleading phrase. You have to have actually studied media in order to understand what it means - if you just pick it up wandering around, it sounds like it means "abstract/speculative/theoretical concept".

>>96376317
I retract the niggerfaggot

>>96374510
No, it didn't, it was bad even then. You just lowered the standards.

>>96372932 (OP)
It's near-future so it's more relatable than many other settings, it appeals to people who have a hateboner for corporations, anarchists, socialists, people who like mech-style superheroes, and people who like the setting for how horny it is.

>>96373341
The irritating is the only reason D&D is more popular is because D&D is more popular, and somehow this has held for almost half a century.

>>96372932 (OP)
It's too sweaty

I like the genre, the system, both old and new, I like how it looks on my bookshelf, but honestly would rather play Blade Runner, something tech noir. Cyberpunk is like something written by an edgelord for edgelords, there is no room for breathing, it's deadly, makes feel players powerless. You have to be a "punk"and that's cringe. Like the kind of an archetype it tries to sell you, it would work better in like Bubblegum Crisis anime ttrpg, not a setting that pretends realism.

Also 30 years and no campaign, that would be considered a classic, that's a red flag.

>>96375102
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/449873/cities-without-number-free-version?src=also_purchased

I think they need to drop the Red setting produce a fully fledged 2077 corebook already. The vidya/anime is the only reason people play Red in the first place and the corebook is in desperate need of revision anyway.

Adapting the 2077 vidya faithfully requires alot of changes to the rules that these 2077 campaigns aren't addressing. Red is becoming a frankensteins monster of splatbooks and subsystems thanks to the DLCs.

>>96372932 (OP)
>What makes Cyberpunk so appealing
>why hasn't it caught on
Guess it's not that appealing then, retardo gordo grande

>>96377766
punk is cool though

>>96381610
We're in a kind of post-ironic era where that edgy rebel with a leather jacket thing feels more like a costume than something people can take seriously, I don't mean it as a fault of the system, the problem is more with me or people I play with.

>>96381814
Because:
A) people have lost faith in any ideals,
B) modern people are selfish narcissists who cannot stand the thought of someone being better than them
C) modern people are sociopaths who have lost the ability to reflect and understand someone who is not 100% like them

>>96372932 (OP)
>What makes Cyberpunk so appealing
the increasing descent of real life into a boring and unfun cyberpunk dystopia makes people much more interested in playing a cool and exciting cyberpunk game where instead of paying a subscription to turn on the heated seats in your car it's renting an assault cannon cyberware arm

>>96373388
The RED system is rather good-- it may actually be my favorite combat system for any 'modern' or 'future' game-- it's the 2045 setting that's pretty boring.

It's a little impressive how long it's taking them to add in official splats for a bunch of shit that would have made sense in the core book, but it's whatever.

>>96381610
>>96381814
>>96381839
Punk was a marketing strategy. Capitalism absorbs its detractors.

>>96382275
Punk music was a term invented by the Band suicide in the early 70s for their shows.

>>96381814
You're just too young to understand punk

>>96381814

The edgy self proclaimed rebels now are elected for presidents and shit. Not that they have some ideals like you're supposed to in CP2020/77, but might explain the problem.

>>96376621
It came to me rather naturally since I've played all the MYZ games and supplements over the last 5 years. I've also played Tales from the Loop, Twilight 2k, TWD, and Things from the Flood, The Electric State, Alien, and Blade Runner.

Once you play 3 or 4 of those games you absorb most of the needed material to make your own. They relased a SRD called the Year Zero Engine that is really easy to work with in order to mix all the stuff you want from those games or create your own.

People have also made their own games using YZE and some of them are already cyberpunk themed, in case you don't want to read/play all that stuff. Here's a couple:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/457568/terminal-state-quickstart

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/thievesguildgames/neon-blood-year-zero

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/348619/edgeland

>>96373879
Glad to see appleseed
Sad to not see Brazil

>>96373879
The Alita movie, the last Dredd one, Chapie, Animatrix, and The Fifth Element are also very good to grab ideas from.

>>96382523
also probably the greatest punk group of all time

>>96384741

If yo ask me, the Alita movie was definitely too "happy" for classic cyberpunk. Bretty gud movie tough.

>>96372932 (OP)
A toy company bought TSR and marketed the shit out of it and made their biggest brand into a DLC money machine. Everybody else is competing with the company that employs the bad guys from Red Dead Redemption to beat up youtubers who accidentally got a pack of cards early.

>>96373345
D&D used to stress that you'd need to spend downtime to learn new skills, spells, etc. The idea that you just spontaneously generate new powers is a misappropriation of the mechanical end of D&D at the cost of in-fiction coherence, because modern low-IQ players want instant gratification and as little bookkeeping and fiddling around as possible.

>>96373340
At least in RED they have a section on GMing that suggests framing the game in scenes like a serial or show. In a lot of ways its like Japanese scenario based games where the scene is decided before you start and you play it out; with the outcome and direction of the scene fueling later scenes.

If you want to get pedantic, the geography of a dungeon is replaced with a play-like structure, with places organically being populated when scenes require it. You don't necessarily plan a heist on a small corporate office-- though you might build a big multi-level corporate stronghold for a major scene-- you supply one though if that's what the crew is deciding to hit. If the party doesn't go places, events come to them, so on and so forth.

>>96385245
The newest book releases do a lot to get that downtime back on track thankfully

>>96377581
okay windows just werks but linux can be so much better

Cyberpunk used to represent a future world full of contradiction, with mindblowing technology yet a broken system you want and can revolt against.
Prime place for adventuring.

>why hasn't it caught on compared to other genres and systems?
I would say it's simply becoming more and more difficult to make.
The technologies we considered speculative and futuristic are now standard or discredited, if you use basic game mechanic to represent hacking or technology, we now know just how silly they are, to the point it's more like cyberfantasy than cyberpunk.

Science fiction rules are definitely more complex to make than Fantasy ones.

>>96384751
You’re damn right.

>>96372932 (OP)
Aren't you tired making this thread time and again? Or bored, at least?

>>96389480
idk what you're talking about

>>96373300
>popularity
good.
popular things get ruined.
its better being niche.
I was already concerned with the game and anime coming out during the post-covid "EVERYTHING MUST BE CYAN AND MAGENTA" cyberpunk-esque aesthetic boom. I was worried that the game/anime being popular would bring millions of annoying zoomers and normie karens into the TTRPG but thankfully it didnt.

>>96378266
An OSR meatgrinder is not what I'm looking for when I want to be a chromed up badass

>>96372932 (OP)
Did you play Cyberpunk 2077? All the scenes in it were pretty good but had no staying power. The graffiti everywhere in game of the words "No Future" were really apt.

But then there were the flashback scenes with Johnny, where he was a rebel rocker attacking big corpo towers. Everything was rock and roll and rebelliousness and full of vim and energy.

If you make Cyberpunk like the Johnny Flashbacks and less like the "modern" Cyberpunk it works infinitely better and is way more fun to engage with as media.

>>96378266
SWN is better. Even for cyberpunk.
>>96394218
Stops being a meatgrinder after you gain a few levels, the deadliness is frontloaded.

>>96399899
>Stops being a meatgrinder after you gain a few levels
4 to 10 sessions of attrition just to be where a Cyberpunk character is out of character creation doesn't sound appealing

>>96400070
It sounds like whatever system you play in you may want to work something out with your GM to give you the experience you're after, instead.

>>96399899
>Stops being a meatgrinder after you gain a few levels, the deadliness is frontloaded.
I guess I have my answer for the OP: In cyberpunk your character is competent out of char gen

>>96372932 (OP)
I've played Cyberpunk 2020, its a good system. People who are mentally incapable of reading rulebooks (most of this board) don't play it because its not DnD. I don't play 2020 anymore mostly because I think its character system sucks, not the lifepath stuff but the way stats and skills interact. REF is way too strong compared to other stats, and theres only really one way to make a character who is competent, and its not very fun. Still, its more functional than most systems I've played or seen.

>>96373879
I would add Snow Crash (novel) and Ghost in the Shell (anime) to the list.

If you want to speed things up, just watch Blade Runner and Ghost in the Shell, and read Neuromancer and Snow Crash, and you're all set.

Uh, and you could also watch Edgerunners, which is set in the Cyberpunk universe. :)

How do you feel about cy Borg?

>>96372944
/thread