Thread 96387658

human furniture enthusiast edition

>Previous Thread
>>96367570
>Pastebin
https://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0
>Mediafire
https://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD
>Mega I
https://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw
>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)
https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ
>WoD5 Mega
https://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA
>STV content folders
https://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ
>General Creation Kit
https://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw
>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoD
http://167.99.155.149/
>Anders Mage Page
http://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/
>White Wolf Wiki:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

>Thread Question:
Favourite evil/antagonist faction? why that one in particular?

>>96387658 (OP)
>Thread question
The Syndicate. I'm no communist, but these fuckers embody all the worse faults of late-stage capitalism in a way that genuinely makes my skin crawl.

What's the logic behind Caine's "curse" making him an immortal superman that can do whatever he wants?

>>96388008
the og curse was just to be immortal and be unable to eat food and everything else is either something caine and lilith grafted unto it to empower caine or a extra curse the angels put there to balance out the lilith tomfoolery

>>96388008
This gets asked very often, most of the superman stuff comes from Lilith not god, God's curse is basically for him to wander forever and never be welcomed anywhere
As to why God didn't do anything after, because he stopped caring about Earth long ago

>>96388008
Caine's curse has nothing to do with his powers..
The only benefit of this Curse was immortality, the ageless kind, and 7x retribution.
The retard Lilith is the reason why Caine has anything.

>>96388008
so he can suffer watching his offspring murder each other over and over again, just like he made god suffer

Out of curiosity, what's the lowest generation a high ranking Hunter could potentially take on in Vigil? Could they as a team reasonably cause a paradigm shift in a city after killing a high enough ranking vampire that actually does make a noticeable difference in the area? Or are they just not equipped to do something like that without a lot of ass pulls and the players should temper their expectations on just what their vigil can accomplish?

>>96388264
Several things. First, Generation is less of a hard power number, but a power multiplier and/or ceiling. How dangerous a vampire is more like Generation + Years of (active, not in torpor) Unlife + Talent.

Secondly, Vigil uses its own monster creation rules so you don't need to buy a bunch of extra books if you don't want. These rules don't have a generation equivalent. Good news, it's very easy to convert generation to those rules or the nWoD vampire rules though. Just make the supernatural potency equal to the generation's blood per turn if you want a quick fix, and paste over the max vitae and trait caps. There are other ways you can convert it, but that is the simplest.

Lastly, Hunters don't want to fight in a way that's easy to white-room. Due to their very abusable weaknesses of sunlight and daysleep, Hunters can theoretically punch well out of their weight class against them. However, the difficulty is often finding the vampire or getting through their numerous slaves and minions, many of whom may be innocent people tricked or commanded to serve them.

>>96388264
>>96388318
Generation doesn't exist in Requiem vamps anyways, that's a thing in Masquerade because how far the curse is spread from Caine matters. In Requiem Vampirism is evolutionary, and a fledgeling is always about the same power level regardless of their sire.

>>96387816
>these fuckers embody all the worse faults of late-stage capitalism
Anon, the syndicate are all about anti-monopoly, consumer rights, and competition(because it makes way more money). "Late stage Capitalism" is caused by monopoly and regulatory capture(which ironically generate less money because it causes the economy to stall).
If anything the syndicate embody the other extreme, early stage unregulated capitalism where shit like human trafficking is happening because there isn't enough regulation of the market.

>>96388264
Assuming you're homebrewing to use Vigil in classic wod rather than in chronicles: Around 6th gen is where they can peak.
Abusing vampire weaknesses like fire, sunlight, path-limited dicepools during the day, etc, can let a well educated and equipped hunter punch well into the elder range, but it stops at methusela. Methusela are so supernaturally potent that they've begun developing powers that allow them to mitigate or temporarily ignore their vampiric weaknesses. Even if it's only for an hour, a human hunter having to survive a full hour against a completely unrestricted methusela is a pipe-dream.

I'm slowly working up the hype to run a Wraith the Oblivion 20th chronicle, but some of my usual players are slowly drifting away into either unethusiastic cunts or ghosters, so to any anon who ahs run/played the system:

How risky is it to run a long-term Wraith game with some/all strangers? Is it easy to fall into magical realm/edgy/retarded antics regarding the Shadow? I really would like to avoid playing more than one player's Shadow if I could due to all the juggling I must do as a ST, and that's only If I have an odd number of players.

>>96388008
Every strength is a torture of its own.

>>96388666
>Wraith the Oblivion 20th
BEGONE SATAN!

>>96388008
Caine's curse was given directly by God to be, among other things, immortal and capable of 7-fold damage reflection, plus technically God's grandson. Also, cursed by other angels. His blood was immensely powerful and unique, and Lillith (the Mary Sue writer's pet) helped him figure out ways he could use his blood in an unique type of magic way.

Hence, Discipline's were born.

It's good to note that men in Genesis' time and up to quite a lot were known to have superhuman traits, such as living to almost a millenium, fertility even in old ages, and one could guess youth and virility, so Caine was already quite stacked.

>>96388700
Is it that bad? I'm reading the book right now, but if there's a better edition do let me know before I invest too much into it. I have no idea if it's a Mage Revised x Mage 20 situation.

What version are you running rn? I've been trying to convince my boys to run VTR

>>96388702
>ways he could use his blood in an unique type of magic way.
>Hence, Discipline's were born
All disciplines are just thaumaturgy paths

>>96388715
>Is it that bad?
Yes.
>I have no idea if it's a Mage Revised x Mage 20 situation
It's many, Many times worse. Wraith 20th is to wraith what W5 is to werewolf the apocalypse. It changes the mechanics completely for most of the system, hits everything with so many unnecessary nerfs that most arcanoi are genuinely useless, and takes a great big piss all over the lore of the wraith setting.
To give an example: the 5th dot power of Outrage, one of the most feared abilities in the entire setting in both lore and mechanics, was nerfed so hard it's genuinely worse than just using the standard issue soulsteel sword most wraiths in stygia have.
>if there's a better edition do let me know
Wraith's last edition before 20th was 2e. Wraith didn't get a revised edition because whitewolf was promoting other lines like mummy and demon.

>>96388757
V5 lore with a few adaptations, but in adapted DND 5E mechanics

>>96388666
Use old books. 20th ain't got anything on the old editions, omits a lot, and also deliberately removed some my favourite stuff.
>How risky is it to run a long-term Wraith game with some/all strangers?
About as risky as running a random Vampire game with strangers, Wraith is just harder to get people into.
>Is it easy to fall into magical realm/edgy/retarded antics regarding the Shadow?
Warn everyone at the gate that they have an evil alternative personality, that the Shadow can be far more active, cunning and nasty than the Beast, and that the players, through being the Shadowguides can and will mess each other up if their wraith characters aren't mitigating their Shadow's influence with due effort.

Also warn them that that screw-ups are made into coins and tools and Wraith inherently has more fucked up shit going.

>>96388757
What sorta VtR game are you thinking of? I love me some Requiem.

>>96388666
>How risky is it to run a long-term Wraith game with some/all strangers?
Absolutely terrible idea. Wraith is a game you should only run with people who a.) you know very well, b.) are mature enough to handle emotionally charged situations without flipping the fuck out, and c.) capable of distinguishing between themselves and the character.
That's a rare combination for a ttrpg player in general, let alone wod. There's a reason wraith was treated as THE friendship-ruining game before mariocart took the title.

>>96388803
It's not bait. I really don't think there's much wrong with V5 lore, and I think people mostly hate it for stuff like Rudy, but the broad strokes of where the world is and what's going on are fine. The Second Inquisition in particular makes perfect sense and is a great potential antagonist or source of drama.

>>96387816
>late-stage capitalism
This isn't actually a thing. It's a spin-doctoring of economic theory that blames the issues of socialist policy on capitalism.
America is not currently capitalist. It hasn't been since carter bailed out chrysler. Goverenment bailouts of failing corporations and corrupt stock markets is the opposite of capitalism, a capitalist economy would let those businesses Die like they deserve.
The current american economy is a socialist oligarchy, socialist benefits for businesses and the rich at the expense of the taxpayer.

>>96388852
>I really don't think there's much wrong with V5 lore
>second inquisition managing to destroy one of the most powerful magical strongholds on the planet "just because"
>All the death-related clans magically forget their blood-feuds and become a happy family
>the pointless lasombra defection
>the nonsensical anarch ressurgance
>The casualty and exodus rates of vampires make trying to reset the game to the 90's weird
>collapsing the sabbat into orcs
>carmarilla tech ban

>>96388763
yes. acording to the revised blood magic books the first (non koldun) blood sorcery paths been created when younger vampires tried to copy the ability of their elders to make custom elder powers and the ability to create new paths works on the same principle

>>96388769
...Why tho?

>>96388769
>https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/17400
this you?

>>96388940
>when younger vampires tried to copy the ability of their elders to make custom elder powers
Which is weird, given how 8+ gen vampire can still make their own custom powers by combining disciplines. While they'll obviously be weaker than 6+ disciplines(unless the elder is a moron), combo disciplines can pretty much make whatever you want.

>>96388981
achilli probably just forgot that combo powers are a thing

>>96388961
>Tying generation to level

>>96388936
>second inquisition managing to destroy one of the most powerful magical strongholds on the planet "just because"
Because they're very obviously backed by the Technocracy, and are clearly using more than normal mortal weapons. It's also why their first target was the Clan most closely related to mages, which the Technocracy would have known the most about, especially after the second Massassa war. It wasn't two dudes rolling up in a pickup truck with a can of gas, it was teams of True Faith JSOC crusaders carrying weapons built for the task. The SI is basically a way to merge Hunter: The Vigil ideas back into oWoD like https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Advanced_Armory

>All the death-related clans magically forget their blood-feuds and become a happy family
Never happened, always political intrigue and back stabbing and murder and so on.

>the pointless lasombra defection
Not a plus or a minus, no worse than Gangrel leaving years ago.

>the nonsensical anarch ressurgance
Pairs perfectly well with centralized authority becoming weaker and more dangerous, overbearing restrictions on tech, etc. Another, stronger first-class faction giving more player and story choice is a good thing, not a bad thing.

>The casualty and exodus rates of vampires make trying to reset the game to the 90's weird
Never really happened either, its a non-issue.

>collapsing the sabbat into orcs
They were always orcs, meant as the bad guy opponent faction, then a very flimsy and unsuccessful attempt at rehabing them, and now they're in a position where somebody can in the future come along and actually succeed in rehabing them into something useful.

>tech ban
Makes perfect sense, and also has a lot of meta utility in that cellphones and easy communication break a lot of ideas. You can also just use it anyways. The Camarilla bans lots of stuff that people do all the time, even in the Camarilla, it's just a point to be used or ignored like anything else.

>>96388961
No, but I like the idea of a Larian World of Darkness game.

>>96388771
>>96388767
Thank you. I despise unecessery nerfing. Perhaps that's why Wraith is treated as the weakest WoD splat.
Any idea what's the best edition for me to run?

>>96388793
Thank you. Noted.

>>96388936
God dammit why did you take the bait. He said he was running it in D&D5e for fuck's sake why would you take that bait.

>>96388757
Old WoD, a mix of the first three editions. I houserule a lot, though.
Character creation uses xp, I changed a lot of rolling rules, for example all mental powers roll Attribute+Ability that fits specific situation against Willpower+5 so I don't have to look shit some munchkin writer decided on, demons aren't immune to them,
Willpower is an Attribute in terms of costs and all demons, vampires and tainted (ghouls, fomori, infernalists, religious zealots, etc) humans are capped at 5 with 4 being frowned upon because I effectively gave them first five points for free, powers generally don't cost Willpower (the only exception is lasting mind control) and so on and so on.

>>96388757
As a player, Vigil, set in Louisville 1816.

>>96389041
Can't go wrong with second, though some people still run the first.

>>96389037
>Because they're very obviously backed by the Technocracy
>In a world where none of the splatlines are canon to each other
Yeah, riiiiight
>Never happened
Because the hecata was formed from clans that wanted each other's extincion purely for... what exactly?
>Not a plus or a minus
Cope
>Pairs perfectly well with centralized authority becoming weaker and more dangerous
Maybe if there was any logical basis for it, but such things are mysteriously absent
>Never really happened either
>Beaconing
Did you even read the V5 lore?
>They were always orcs
Did you ever read the VtM lore?
>Makes perfect sense
Aaaand I have to agree this is bait now. I refuse to believe anyone is this dysfunctional.

>>96389045
Not much else to do on a bored sunday morning. May as well have a good-ole autism slapfight to pass the time.

>>96389037
>Because they're very obviously backed by the Technocracy
NTA, but not a single mention of them, or even anything Mage-related at all. You also forget Tremere is known to have battled simultaneously Mages, the Tzimisce, the Gangrel and Nosferatu and managed to hold their ground. Also, you're making some big assumptions here.
>Never happened, always political intrigue and back stabbing and murder and so on.
They still accepted banding together, rather than not just killing the remaining weakened Giovannis altogether. This is maybe top 2 most bullshit lore changes in v5 hands down. There's no justifying here.
>Pairs perfectly well with centralized authority becoming weaker and more dangerous, overbearing restrictions on tech, etc. Another, stronger first-class faction giving more player and story choice is a good thing, not a bad thing.
If anything unorganized Vampires would be a lot more killed nowadays. Also, Anarchs are complete retards in the v5. We're not presented with a viable Camarilla alternative at all. Also, no point in giving players ''more choices'' if that means ruining older choices and outsourcing to the ST a way to make shit work.

I'm not even going to debate the rest of them. Your post is full of assumptions and liberties, like the Sabbat part. Yeah, I can have made some of this shit work before I saw how pointless and dumb that was, that doesn't mean Paradox/WW helped me make sense of their additions.

>>96389072
>none of the splatlines are canon to each other
Hasn't been true ever. Their mechanical dice rolls might not translate, but their lore does.

Question for Ascension: When Dreamspeakers or other shaman type mages use non-Spirit spheres and therefore isn’t calling up and bargaining with a spirit to do something, what does that look like from there perspective ? If they just use Forces to throw a fireball or Life to heal someone, do they believe there are non-sapient spirits that they are commanding to do things?

we arguing about V5 again?

>>96389085
>Hasn't been true ever.
Anon, I want to have this autism slapfight, but this isn't good bait. I'll give you another chance.

>>96389095
it's mostly based on animism so a dream speaker who throws a fireball still in his mind calls upon the spirits of fire

>>96389100
It's about that time of the week.

>>96388008
It was not a curse. It was a reward. Caine was God's favorite.
Abel's raging spirit is the Beast, tormenting Caine's descendants as revenge.

>>96389045
NTA, but I mean, Monty Cuck's WoD is a thing.
People play utterly, unashamedly dogshit games like HOL and FATAL and RaHoWa (granted, the former are trilby-tipping faggots and the latter two are drooling retards cause there are better systems to be a sick fuck and neo-nazi in).
Someone chronically D&D out there definitely looked at WoD, liked the setting and tried to run it with the system he loves.

>>96389095
According to the dreamspeaker traditionbook, they believe the sphere are all different ways of expressing ones connection to the spirits. Using forces to cast fireball is just calling to the spirits of fire.

>>96389082
>but not a single mention of them
That's okay, because it's obvious if you pay attention, and you can just adjust it that way regardless. That's what "V5 lore with a few adaptations" means, and it's what anyone and everyone should be doing in the first place. You're a storyteller, not an AI mindlessly reading somebody else's story.

>They still accepted banding together, rather than not just killing the remaining weakened Giovannis altogether
It's not really something I use or care about, but it's easy enough to just say there was some other as-yet unknown circumstance pressing for it.

>if anything unorganized Vampires would be a lot more killed nowadays
Probably not, since the primary means of finding and hunting them is borrowed from FBI anti-mafia/anti-terrorist stuff, they're looking for meeting places and structure and all that, another reason why the most centralized/organized clan got hit the hardest. There's nothing that would inherently attracted the SI to an anarch more than a Camarilla guy.

>>96389122
>Monty Cuck's WoD is a thing
God, that was such a missed opportunity. What dumbass handed the D20 WoD IP to that guy of all people?

>>96389129
>v5 lore isn't bad!

>I just completely changed the context
>I just inserted another non-canon splat in
>I don't care about that
>You just need to make it work by yourself

You're a dumb fucking retard. I'll stop entertaining your mindless bullshit now. Kill yourself at the earliest opportunity.

>>96389114
good, my autism is acting up and that might help

>>96389129
> V5 lore isn't retarded
> in my homebrew lore

>>96389122
>HOL
Huh?

>>96389164
There's no reason to get so irrationally upset that you're wrong and not able to think very well. I'm not "completely changing the context" of anything really, I'm carrying forward a very obvious author intention, which seems to make you sputter and shake and start ranting about 'non-canon splats' which isn't a thing, and definitely isn't a thing here given that bringing them all into a more cohesive whole was half the point.

And yes, if you have bits of meta plot you can't work with or don't like, you can change them. That isn't something I invented, that's the way it has been all along, and is a pretty basic expectation that most functional people are able to meet.

>>96389066
Thank you again.

>>96389183
Human-Occupied-Landfill, I'm assuming.

>>96389141
He's a been WoD fanboy for a while. Shown up at the early cons and everything. And the authority on all things D&D at the time. Even so the product was very niche, even more so than GURPS WoD lines (which are still played to this very day by GURPS fanatics).
>>96389183
Human Occupied Landfill. A game about penal colony planet.
Made by Black Dog (subsidiary of White Wolf that used to print games and supplements too controversial for the main imprint).
A case study on how not to make a roleplaying game, made that way deliberately and 'ironically'. So it also has its own devoted fans, you know the type.

>>96389113
>>96389127
Right, I get that. And if they want to throw a fireball, they have two choices for how to go about it. They can use the Spirit sphere to call up a spirit of fire and bargain with it and pay its price to have it throw a fireball for you. Or you can just use Forces and wave your hands and skip the summoning and having to pay for it, it just does what you tell it from the spirit world. Why does the second one work? Why don’t you have to bargain and pay for that one?

>Want to read more about the Bastet
>Fera book written by fucking Bruccato
Oh boy... am I screwed?

>>96389323
Brucato used to be able to put out good books. If there was a fella with a cattle prod standing behind him, I assume.

>>96389280
>Why does the second one work?
Because the shaman's authority has grown to the point he can make demands of the spirits without immediate chinimage
>Why don’t you have to bargain and pay for that one?
You still do. That's what the dreamspeakers see paradox as. By using the power of the spirits without proper chinimage, you end up pissing them off and they start making your life harder.
It's convenient for this paradigm that using the spirit sphere allows you to avoid most paradox. Makes it really easy to point and go "See, Proper chinimage makes the spirits less angry!"

>>96389248
>GURPS WoD lines

This one does make sense to me. GURPS is a classless system with a nearly opposite design philosophy from oWoD. So if you really like the setting but genuinely can't stand the mechanics, it's a good choice.

>>96389323
The main issue with the bastet book is how horny it is. It's actually really solid in mechanics and lore, you just have to ignore the constant implications that the bastet's real job from gaia was to be a race of eager breeding stock for other fera.

>>96389352
>Race of breeding stock for other Fera
>Given to the cats, and not wererabbits
Missed opportunity, I say.

>>96389362
Brucato was team catgirl in the catgirl vs bunnygirl vs foxgirl wars of the 90's and early 2000's.

>>96389280
You don't have to directly interact with spirits to get them to help you. Lighting a match doesn't require hitting up a spirit of fire, but a dreamspeaker could do it anyway to create a fire. Maybe for them, waving their hands around in a certain way is like lighting a match.

>>96389372
Dammit I was on the side of the wolfgirls, no wonder I ended up liking WtA the most.

>>96389372
Nah, he was team breeding slaves. He didn't really care what species made sense.

>>96389280
They're not actually communicating with any fire spirits in the second case, it's just their paradigm, in reality it's the Avatar making it happen.

Interested in a coterie if one's open. Peak untapped Tzimisce shenanigans from this man. Only played V20 but open to learning.

>>96389486
>Tzimisce
gross

>>96389486
This is not the place to seek games, too much risk of dox. Try discord.

Wait. If a well-prepared sorcerer was one of the strongest splats south of a well prepared mage(pre-20th), wouldn't that mean the bastet and kitsune were potentially the strongest fera by a long shot since they could innately use human sorcery?
Were catgirls and foxgirls the ultimate lifeforms this whole time?

>>96389576
because of a rule thing in the bastet breed books bastet actually been pretty shit at sorcery no idea about kitsune

>>96389588
It think you got the breedbooks confused with the W20 changing breed books. It's only in W20 that bastet and kistune suddenly became shit at magic. It 2e/Revised, they were the only breeds that could learn human numina without special merits.

>>96389619
How does W20 Changing Breeds nerfs kitsune and bastet sorcery?

>Babe back up I'm gonna fucking throat this dude
>Hear THAT? He's gonna fucking THROAT you! What the FUCK are you gonna do about it! ?

>>96389646
It makes learning numina require a 7 point merit for both breeds and forces anyone who learns mortal sorcery to gain Wyrm Taint for using it.

>>96389677
I'm not even a garou and I feel a sudden urge to beat the shit out of these cubs.

Since pee has lots of blood in it, how much would a Kindred need to drink to satisfy its hunger?

>>96389576
I wouldn't say that a Sorcerer is nearly the strongest, even if a well-prepared one can punch well above his apparent weight, and is too tricky in a direct confrontation. A smart Tremere with sufficient prep-time is far mightier than a Sorcerer. A Mummy is just a mightier Sorcerer. A Dark Age Fae is effectively a Mage lite.

Kitsune can get pretty versatile, but they're hindered by lacking basic Werewolf benefits like regen (Kitsune on a warrior path can get a gift, but warriors aren't sorcerers) AND Kitsune sorcerers getting Wyrm-taint, which amounts to death sentence or need to fall in with unwholesome company among shifters outside of places familiar with that quirk.

And Bastet have that whole bunch of curses going against them. Each breed gets a bunch, and some are pretty bad - for example, do you know that a Celican in addition to shifter flaws has several stereotypical fairy flaws, and will die if it hears its name spoken six times backwards?

>>96389684
>forces anyone who learns mortal sorcery to gain Wyrm Taint for using it

WHY?

>>96389677
>virgin woof argot
>chad anarch argot

>>96389765
Dunno, especially since sorcery was explicitly a power from the weaver under previous lore.

>>96389760
Depends on edition. A revised sorcerer that had already precast their spells and made their magic items is absolutely more powerful than a tremere or mummy. Mummies are an especially weird example, since revised sorcerers can convert hekau into path and aren't capped by balance.

>>96389721
Vampirism is not a scientific condition. It has to be identifiable as actual blood because of the potent symbolism and the magical nature of the curse. Something that doesn't resemble blood and isn't considered blood by most people but technically contains blood cells doesn't count.

It's the same reason why starlight or sunlight reflected by the moon doesn't cause most vampires to burn up as soon as they step out into a cloudless night. It's all magic tied to symbolism. The science behind it is irrelevant.

>>96389760
>do you know that a Celican in addition to shifter flaws has several stereotypical fairy flaws, and will die if it hears its name spoken six times backwards?
reread that section, which yava do/do not apply to individual bastet are completely random. A typical bastet may only be affected by one yava.
The bigger issue is that just knowing a yava weakens a bastet. Every yava you know about a bastet tribe adds +2 to the difficulty of all gift and magic rolls that tribe uses against you, and lowers the difficulty of any magic you use against a member of that tribe by -2, PER YAVA. Every tribe has 3 yava, so a supernatural that knows all 3 yava is basically immune to that tribes magic while also using any magic against them at diff 2-3. Bastet are basically screwed if their yava get exposed.

>>96389677
You'd think they'd have more alpha/beta insults going around

>>96389856
it was created before A/B/O-verse became a thing

>>96387658 (OP)
>TQ

Favorite anything is always difficult. I really like The Pure from Werewolf the Forsaken. They come off as the evil, savage fuckheads that Werewolf needs. I love how they make themselves weaker intentionally out of sheer spite, and make up for it through numbers and spirit pacts. They've become my go to Werewolves for when I need antagonists.

Another one worth mentioning is the Sabbat. Unlike some factions I actually think the Sabbat are enhanced by the contradictions. They won't shut the fuck up about "freedom" but if you ever leave the Sabbat they'll hunt you down like a dog, they force you into a weak mutual blood bond, and you're not actually that free to do whatever you want unless you're a nomad pack. They exalt Caine as an unliving God, and then break every law Caine decreed to his childer. They have an inquisition designed to enforce orthodoxy and yet they are riddled with heresies and infernalism. They hate the Antediluvians and believe they'll end the world, but allowed a fifth column of Assamites who barely hide their antediluvian worship to operate with impunity within the Sabbat. The Sabbat is a dumpster fire held together only by an opposition to the Camarilla. Every member, be they a graduated shovelhead or a dupe who defected for the promise of something better, gets dragged down to the Sabbat's level. Only a privileged few can truly escape the inhumanity race to the bottom. Maybe the next civil war will finally, truly balkanize them. Would outsiders even notice if it did?

>>96389835
You don't get to pick and choose which Yava work and don't, anon. ST does, and in my experience enforces all but the most inconvenient (to himself) of them.

>>96389929
>and in my experience enforces all but the most inconvenient (to himself) of them
Find an ST that isn't an asshole.

>>96389341
Then why don’t the spirits get mad if the effect is coincidental?

>>96389959
Ssssssh, You'll cause the shamans to go into a madness Quiet.

>>96389941
Why would I? They do it by the book, any player who insists that curses shouldn't apply to his character, or tries to pick one, least harmful of the lot and then misinterpret it to be even less of a concern should play caitiff or get the boot.

So I’m planning to play a teenage vampire, like 15 or so, in my first game. I have a strong idea for the character. He’s a toreador fledging in the camarilla. Any thing I should know or be aware of. I know children vampires are problematic for the masquerade but by the time your 15 or 16 most people are done growing and essentially look old enough to drive etc. Someone said the child flaw is really for like an actual child.

Also fuck the boomers in the Camarilla

>>96389983
Nice strawman. Obviously the player doesn't get to choose, but an ST that consistently takes the worst possible interpretation of the rules based on their own convenience is just as cringe as a rules-lawyer munchkin player. It's the same fucking thing.

>>96390043
>teenage vampire
>toreador

>>96390043
Yeah make a backup character. The Camarilla kill child vampires
>Toreador
Oh no.

>>96390043
The Baali welcome their future member!

>>96390043
have you considered adding two years? You can still be a teen at 18 or 19

So Dreamspeakers are just wrong, right? Like, maybe their paradigm was right back when humans were still huddling around fires and hunter-gatherering, but they’ve clearly lost. Only the fucking Sons of Ether are more retarded than Dreamspeakers.

>>96390215
You're getting them confused with the Verbena. The spirit world and spirits are undeniably, objectively, definitely real.

>>96390111
Brother… I’m a prodigy at painting and have a college degree at 15 but also had terminal cancer. It’s makes sense that my sire, being impulsive and obsessive would do this. They were planning to wait till I was older but literally a rival gave me cancer on purpose.

>>96388264
I have no clue about Chronicles, or your exact intentions, but if you have any interest in recreating the Belmonts, look into the House of Murnau from Dark Ages: Inquisitor.

>>96390215
No. Spirits are real. Their paradigm works.
Seethe and cope technocrat.

I got enough xp to learn 1 oblivion ceremony up to lvl 3 (vtm 5)

Which do you think I should pick? Atm I'm tending towards host spirit

>>96390215
Ugh...
Look, metawise speaking, only like "We are God (Gods) in Disguise" and "World is a Stage" is true and all others wrong.
But that's just meta and ST might as well says "Lol, Sons of Ether are right, you are all from True Ether" or "Lol, Aliens, it's all Aliens"

Either way, Dreamspeakers are wrong, and right, as any other Paradigm.

is there any hope that VTMB2 will be fun? they're clearly going for the hyperrealistic look instead of the weird 90s VTM style where you have plot points like producing snuff films with tzimisce geodudes in a Hollywood Hills mansion or talking to living Giovanni who are competing to get fighting zombies in gamey catacombs afterwards, and ditto for Grout's mansion. The TV news telling you about other weird goings-on that are unrelated to the game

The vibe i'm getting is that you'll just beat up hobos in realistic settings instead of encountering all the weird WoD business that VTMB was full of. Like it's not even going to be bad just aggressively mid.

It seems like a V5 problem in general, the way they neutered the Sabbat and all and none of the sourcebooks even mention wraiths or other splats when oWoD was full of opportunities for that stuff

>>96390215
dreamspeakers are the only tradition that has a entire other splat (woofs) backing their world view and they can also adapt perfectly well into the modern world, spirit smiths and techno shamans being a thing after all

>>96390267
Expect the worst, the very worst, and maybe, just maybe you'd be pleasantly surprised.

>>96390275
Nta but Dreamspeaks like to go "Akthully, Gaia isn't..." and make woofs mad

>>96390241
That's pretty rude.

>>96390275
Wouldn't the Fallen also back the existence of God? Vampires too, if you believe noddists. So the Celestial Chorus have a team for them too.

>>96390292
>The Celestial Chorus has demons on their side
The church has fallen...

>>96390300
Always has been.

>>96390292
Celestial Chorus has the most support, VTM, the Fallen, other Mages (see image, straight from Order of Hermes. It's basically the remix of the Fallen stuff)

>>96390237
What makes the Verbena wrong? They’re literally just Hermetics with more sex and blood sacrifices. I mean hell, houses have defected to and from each of them to and from the other.

>>96390144
You know that there is literally almost no physical difference between a 16 year old and an 18 year old, right. Perhaps an inch in height which is not noticeable.

>>96390281
>Expect the worst, the very worst, and maybe, just maybe you'd be pleasantly surprised.
More like "expect the worst, the very worst, and you will still be shocked and disappointed."

>>96390352
More likely that, yes.

>>96390281
>>96390352
i don't think it's going to be any worse than the new york trilogy just mopey and serious instead of weird and delightful. that's kind of wod5's thing unfortunately

>>96390313
I just don't think that blood sacrifice is an efficient or sensible way to do magic. I suppose there's nothing which makes them "wrong".

>>96390313
>What makes the Verbena wrong?
90% of their paradigm is new-age neopagan bullshit and historical revisionism of matriarchal religions that never existed.

>>96390377
>new york trilogy
How bad was it?

>>96390381
>magic_aint_free_the_earth_must_be_nourished_with_the_blood_of_abrachamists_and_technomancers.jpg

>>96387658 (OP)
What do you guys think about Exalted vs WoD?
Is it good?
I have been trying to get into exalted and think it might be a good place to start.

>>96390416
they're not bad at all the second one is pretty decent actually

>>96390440
It's pure wank, made by one of the shittiest devs in the business that refused to make the most popular houserules official in the last Exalted edition.

>>96390267
everything points to this game being mid at best, borderline unplayable at worst. given the shitty business practices surrounding it, this game is gonna be dragged through the mud by everybody regardless.
the biggest issue i see is the combat, first person melee combat has some inherent issues, mainly that if your enemies move around to much you'll end up having to swerve your camera around to a nauseating degree and i see no real evidence that TCR has kept this in consideration while designing the game, the telekinesis power is something everybody is going to forget exists during combat and combat generally seems to lack any flow to it (although some of this might be because the ppl i watched playing the game were shit at it.)
the main antagonist in the game seems to be a malkavian so there might be some fun there although i doubt they had the budget to do something truly gonzo with it if the facial animations are anything to go by.
sorry for the autistic rambling

>>96390310
celestial chorus and order of hermes are weird because they used to be the same thing in ars magica (as in the order of hermes included a lot of the chorus belief system including being the monotheistic mage faction and having a somewhat accepted mithraism minority cult) and white wolf never quite managed to divorced them thematically

>>96390415
But they did exist according to WoD canon, cry harder.

>>96390493
>according to the verbena and black furies, but mysteriously no other group has ever referenced these groups or even remember them ever existing

>>96390440
it's the worst way to play exalted writen by a guy who can't even read the rules of either games who promises a game he does not deliver

he never actually stats the big too powerful to stat guys from wod so that you can fight them despite saying so in the texts before the rules. The best you get is methuselahs with custom charms

>>96390492
They really can't separate them. Hermeticism and gnosticism are fundamentally christian instituations. Trying to make the order of hermes non-christian is like trying to make omnyoji non-shinto, they just don't makes sense without the religion.

>>96390043
>Hard times create strong men
>Strong men create good times
>Good times create weak men
>Weak men make me hard
WHAT did they mean by this?

>>96390529
everything bad happening is your fault because you don't want to deal with the same bullshit as i had to.

>>96390464
>>96390515
NTA but I have heard good things about it on the exalted general.
Why is it the opinion about it so different here?

>>96390473
>borderline unplayable
literally nothing NOTHING points to this
it's just a dishonored-like with no replay value, nothing about it looks broken like unpatched vtmb1
>given the shitty business practices surrounding it
this isn't true at all, i literally couldn't give fewer fucks about two clans being locked. i only care about actual story content in my games and i would be mildly miffed if they gated story content as dlc. originally there was supposed to be a standalone malkavian DLC (the reason they didn't make malkavian playable in the main game) but they implemented that DLC content into the main game, now people are pissed that DLC content 1. doesn't exist 2. is lazy (just two clans instead of real content) 3. "you can't play as a malkavian mimimi". no one is forcing you to buy the $90 version. i get mad when actual content is DLC-gated as day 1. not two fucking clans when the game isn't replayable anyway

like LITERALLY you can unlock all disciplines as any clan in the game, why the fuck are throwing a fit about not getting to be a toreador when all that amounts to is probably three lines of dialogue. TORtanicfags did a number on gaming culture

>i'm not going to buy the game because toreador and lasombra are locked behind the $90 version
>my preferred clan? brujah. why do you ask?
you outrage baiting people are so fucking retarded it's unbelievable.

>>96390554
c'mon, i know you can come up with better bait

>>96390512
Yeah, of course the patriarchy would try to hide the real history. Read the Book of Lilith.

>>96390525
*Onmyodo. And the practice itself is taoist in origin, it's just syncretized with shinto and buddhism.
And there's pagan hermeticism. Hell, it's rooted in pagan beliefs. But just like gnosticism it's a huge syncretic belief system.
Basically: syncretism is the true origin of complex mystic practices.

Okay, but is there any reason to play a mage of any tradition outside of the OoH except just for vibes? All the others have limitations on what their paradigms allow them to do, but the Hermetics’s whole thing is that they can do anything with enough knowledge and will.

>>96390546
>your fault
>Likely said by a boomer that doesn't understand the original meme

>>96390655
Why would I sign up with a master who will enslave me and labor for decades learning how to properly chant the right ritual to conjure a flame when I could just do LSD and imagine a flame so hard it becomes real?

>>96390665
i'm just the messenger, no need to shoot me

>>96390655
>is there any reason to play a mage of any tradition outside of the OoH except just for vibes?
Yes. There are 4 traditions that get paradox-free bonuses for having paradigms that are more metaphysically "Correct" than the others.
>Order of Hermes
True Names allow them to gain immunity to sympathetic magic unless the user know your true name(enemy wizards have to basically be in front of you to affect you with a spell).
>Akashic Brotherhood
Gain acccess to an overpowered martial art called "Do", that pretty much makes them combat monsters able to pull some straight-up magical effects without risk of paradox
>Celestial Chorus
All their magic gains the effects of true faith, meaning vampires, demon, etc will pretty much explode on contact with them.
>Dreamspeakers
Are able to take Totems and work static magic effects through spirit-rites.

The rest of the traditions are pretty much jokes though. Some even take Penalties because of how disconnected their paradigm is from actual metaphysical reality.

>>96390655
... that's literally all traditions anon. Sure, Verbena can struggle with technomagick and Virtual Adepts struggle with Spirits. But nothing stops you from playing a technopagan or a Digimon Tamer.

>>96390606
>bait
explain?

>>96390440
Work of a former dev that tries to take out his frustration through fangame.
Doesn't read, or at least doesn't bother actually thinking when he works on material.
Too salty.

>>96390553
>I have heard good things about it on the exalted general
Largely because the exalted general has a number of exalted 3e fans. Those things aren't sapient in a way humans can understand

>>96390731
Mechanically speaking, you're forgetting all the cool investments other Traditions can get.
Etherites have a merit that allows them use literally any foci, including those of opposed paradigms. Both them and the VAs have an entire book full of examples of powerful Wonders.
Every tradition has access to specific Grimoires, talismans, etc.
If you're playing Mage purely thinking about mechanical advantages you're probably doing it wrong. You pick a Tradition because your character's personal Paradigm aligns with them. Or because your character concepts simply works well there.

>>96390731
>Yes. There are 4 traditions that get paradox-free bonuses for having paradigms that are more metaphysically "Correct" than the others.
Anon, it isn't because how disconnected it is from actual stuff. It's because their beliefs have them. A proper Hermetic can't really do Deadpool style 4th wallbreaks because his paradigm isn't "We are all fiction/living in Truman Show" but that doesn't make that 4th Wallbreaking paradigm superior or Order of Hermes farther.

>>96390785
>Etherites have a merit
So does every other tradition. A version of that merit was made universal in masters of the art.
>book full of examples of powerful Wonders
Wonders can be refluffed for any tradition
>If you're playing Mage purely thinking about mechanical advantages
Anon, the question being answered was if there are any real differences between traditions other than just artificially imposed paradigm limitations. I answered that question.

>>96390751
cuz you started ranting about half sentences and assumptions of things i said despite me explaining what i meant with the things i said which don't line up with said assumptions.

which means you're either ragebaiting (which is what most ppl defending this game have been doing) or especially retarded

>>96390803
>A proper Hermetic can't really do Deadpool style 4th wallbreaks
Ahem, "True gnosis is knowing the world is the dreams of watching gods". The hermetic now percieves the watching gods and intacts with them. Paradigm based differences aren't limited to any tradition unless you have no imagination.
Actual mechanical differences that affect the fundamental way the game is played are very different.

>>96390440
>What do you guys think about Exalted vs WoD?
It solves many of the problems with Exalted and WoD while still keeping the shitty core engine. Pretty good book but it really feels like it is trying to go two directions at once.

>>96390803
>Anon, it isn't because how disconnected it is from actual stuff.
It really is. All 4 of those tradition have static-magic counterparts that work regardless of if the user is awakened. They align with actual unawakened metaphysics in the setting.
The technocracy get the same benefits. Much of their magic doesn't just align with consensus, it aligns with actually underlying reality that exists below consensus.

>>96390783
Exalted is a weird game because every edition does something better than any of the others but completely shits the bed in other aspects. For example, 3e has the best rules for mutations, but the entire crafting system should just be taken back and burned. Every other thing is skub, like mass combat rules and withering vs decisive attacks.

>>96390882
>it aligns with actually underlying reality that exists below consensus.
M20/RevBrucato bullshit.
>technocracy gets the same benefits
With the drawback of never being able to forego foci.

>>96390492
I don't think they're too difficult to separate on paper. Normies don't really know of the Hermetic connection to Christianity, so its easy to presume the Hermetics are Harry Potter wizards that worship themselves as fonts of mystical power. They can simply not have a transcendent communal ideology. For the reality Mage geopolitics, the Christian/Jewish mysticism connection is why they and the Choisters end up working together most of the time. Even then, many would look at that and label it White Supremacy, without acknowledging even that comes from the intolerance of those religions.

>>96390931
>M20/RevBrucato bullshit.
That shit existed Looooong before brucato ruined everything. "Underlying immutable reality" was a thing ever since someone asked "why does consensus exist when the majority of people disbelieve consensual reality", which causes an actual logical paradox without an underlying reality.

The Virtual Adepts are the correct faction because realizing that space is an illusion is actualization of the One.

The real question is which tradition should a cowboy gunslinger mage that hunts monsters in rural areas of the world to protect the mortals on the borders of civilization belong to? And which Path would such a character belong to in Awakening? (This is a character concept I really want to play when I get a chance, don’t really care which game it’s in.)

>>96390972
>tradition
You described a void engineer anon.

>>96390972
In Awakening, House Vedmak of the Tremere are big on monster hunting.

>>96390972
The only building he might even know would be a church, so he might be a Chorister.

>>96390956
Not really. It is a Revised thing, and revised was developed by Brucato. He's been one of the most vocal proposers of that line of thinking.
>why does consensus exist when the majority of people disbelieve consensual reality
Except they don't. That's why reality is consensual, because the vast majority of people have accepted these basic and primitive Quintessence patterns to such a point that they're not even questioned. This started before the OoR, mind you. Consensus is as old as humanity itself.

>>96390731
>names and sympathetic effects
Hermetics are far more vulnerable to correspondence effects because they give power to sympathetic principles and names. While akashics disbelieve such things, if not entirely cast them off, so it's akashics who are less vulnerable.
Hermetic way of dealing with spirits is similar - obtuse, full of false superiority to everyone else, and objectively inferior to just using some combination of Spirit Lore, Enigmas and Empathy.
>true faith
Do you have merit? Do you follow precepts of your faith to inconvenience and mortal peril? Then yeah, have the benefit of sainthood.

The real benefit of the Choristers is more flexible Faith effects, a choirister can go full tilt on Faith and largely neglect spheres and still remain relevant if ST's willing to indulge them.

>>96391021
>>96390931
Revised was developed by Jess "Street Level" Heining you fool. Then salvaged by Sheppard.

Brucato was in charge for M20 and 2ed (back when he wasn't entirely worthless and back when he couldn't shit things too much since Wieck, the Mage's creator was not dead yet).

>>96390972
Depends on his paradigm and how he does magick.
Does he read ancient texts, as some kind of nobleman cultured cowboy (think of Dr. Schultz in Django, but as an occultist instead of dentist)? Hermetic.
Is he religious, monotheist or believes in a Greater Power from which everything emanates? Chorister.
Did he spend time with the indigenous people to learn about monsters and spirits, internalizing these beliefs? Dreamspeaker.
Is he fascinated by the advancements of science and technology? Void Engineer technocrat. Is he kinda crazy and cookie on top of that? Etherite.
Does he do peyote or seek higher states of being through hunting? Ecstatic.
Is he a morbid "grim reaper" of monsters and evil, motivated by the thought of delivering death to his quarry? Euthanatos.
None of the above? Orphan/independent. Does he listen to Johnny Cash? Honorary Hollow One, goths love Johnny Cash.

>>96391079
Brucato still appears as an author in Revised.

>>96390972
Could be almost any of them depending on how you flavor the guy.
>Hermetic
He trained for years under a master who taught him the proper rituals and rites to hunt monsters.
>Euthanatoi
He metes out justice with his implement of choice (a gun, of course) against cruel and sadistic monsters that threaten the wheel.
>Chorister
He acts as shepherd to the flock, protecting the innocent with nothing but his trusty weapon and faith in the One.
>Verbena
He loves the wilderness and the people who dwell there, guarding them against the evils that civilization cannot shield
>Ecstatic
He isn't actually a cowboy, he's just insane and believes he is. Sort of a Don Quixote figure, the thrill of the hunt is what drives him.
>Dreamspeaker
He seeks to pacify the spirits of the land by driving out the corrupting forces that have angered and distorted them.
>Etherite
He tinkers with all sorts of guns and gadgets, inventing and refining them to perfection.
>Akashic
He follows a path to enlightenment, trying to resolve conflicts in both himself and the world around him.

He could of course also be an Orphan and not be any of the above. Someone could probably come up with a concept for a VA. Really, the paradigm would matter more than the tradition.

>>96391096
He wasn't in control of Revised development in any capacity, and the writing contribution is 2ed backlog.

There's a lot to blame Brucato for, but all things shitty in Revised are Heining and Achilli's fault, with some contributions from lesser shitters like Cohen, McFarland, DiPesa and others.

>>96390844
We both know that if you decided to go through with that in the Order of Hermes, they would give you the boot. Not even Hodgepodges aka Miscellanea will accept you.

Wait, so do Dreamspeakers have to believe that all magic is actually just spirits? Can you have one that believes supernatural power beyond weird animism exists?

Is there any WW writer largely seen as """good"""?

>>96391051
>Hermetics are far more vulnerable to correspondence effects because they give power to sympathetic principles and names.
You didn't read the order of hermes tradition book did you?
OoH are immune to sympathetic magic unless you know their true name and their names are trapped behind a shadow name you have to learn first and layers of spells that fuck you up for trying to learn it.
The akashic gets fucked by any verbena witch with one of his hair, while the hermetic wouldn't even be aware she was trying to ineffectually curse him.

>>96391195
The Dual Traditions merit solves most of these problems.
Want to believe in spirits AND god? Now you can! Want to believe in science and reincarnation? Now you can! Want to believe in drugs and sex but also drugs and sex with blood? Now you can!

>>96391195
Go into the mega, find the traditionbook and read it. It'll explain everything much more clearly than an anon autistic rambling.

>>96391200
Mark Rein-hagen. He's no saint, but he was the backbone of 1e/2e for wod in general.

>>96391212
That hasn’t even existed in like 2 or 3 editions

>>96391229
Well grandfather it in. Cool shit should stay around.

>>96391200
Wiecks, Rein-Hagen, Ryan, Sheppard, Campbell, Dansky are generally well regarded, if you disregard their current work.

>>96391229
Dual Traditions is still in revised. Anyone playing M20 only has themselves to blame.

>>96391229
To be quite fair, the dual traditions merit becomes less relevant the more personalized you make your World of Darkness and the more individualistic your paradigm becomes. And considering Mages are the most individualistic of all supernaturals that's just bound to happen.
I already let my players come up with their own Tradition subfactions (or in the case of a particular Euthanatos, a subfaction of a subfaction). If they give me a narrative reason, I'm going to let them grab merits from any other tradition without problems.

>>96391209
Is it the core rule? No? Storyteller's Handbook optional rule, maybe? No?

Then eat shit and fuck off, hermetic gobbedygook restrictions apply strictly to hermetics and maybe choiristers sharing their beliefs.

>>96390267
might be fun if you don't consider it to be *bloodlines 2* but rather a completely distinct VTM game

>>96391305
Ah, you're trolling. Understood, have a nice day.

>>96390529
Considering it was written by a delusional right-wing troll author whose oeuvre is apocalypse fantasy, nothing of value at all.

>>96391229
it's called dual affiliation and you can find it in M20 (ew) Book of Secrets page 70-71

>>96387658 (OP)
Strixes.
>Why
They gave back some cosmic and existencial horror in Vampire.

>>96391586
>They gave back some cosmic and existencial horror in Vampire.
You'll have to elaborate on that one.

>>96391586
>existencial
Buenos días, señor

Are there holy mages?

>>96391762
You didn't even bother to read the thread, let alone the books, did you?

>>96391586
>They gave back some cosmic and existencial horror
You mean VtR specifically? VtM had cosmic and existential horror in spades once you got past the writers incoherent schizo-rants about "personal horror"

>>96391685
The Stryx and their hatred feel rather lovecraftian in some regards, but I don't know how to phrase why. Maybe it is their sheer conviction that sells the idea of an ancient betrayal and how that keeps you wondering what that means to your character and kindred as a whole.

Is grappling as terrible as it is in other systems? I'm interested in WoD.

>>96391762
Cabal of Pure Thought, Celestial Chorus, Knights Templar, Dreamspeakers and Verbena are holy each in their own way, Akashics and Wu Lung can be too (Bodhisattvas and Xian for Buddhists and Taoists respectively) and there are niche religious Crafts.

>>96391797
Grappling is just the way you do combat if you have high Strength and low Dexterity in the WoD.

Kill all Mages. Think of magic being all tricks now!

>>96391797
>Is grappling as terrible as it is in other systems?
It's called clinching here and yes.
>I'm interested in WoD.
Which splat?
If you want supernatural mafia gangers or corporate espionage with a goth ascthetic, Vampire the Masquerade.
If you want hyper-aggressive action combat. Werewolf the Apocalypse.
If you want to be able to literally do Anything in a potentially infinite amount of potential settings, Mage the Ascension.
If you want to go to Narnia/Oz/Wonderland/Homestuck, Changeling the Dreaming.

I always liked Requiem's pseudovampires/non-kindred vampires. They let you fill out the niche of folklore accurate vampire-like creatures without any obligation or impetus to use them, even in the parts of the world the creature is taken from. Night Horrors: the Wicked Dead mostly focuses on Asia, so I'm wondering if there's any vampire-like creatures from folklore you guys know about that I could give a similar treatment in my games? Like the Vrykolakas, for example.

>>96391822
Also I'm forcing "the brown chakra" into Consensus to fuck with Akashics

>>96391836
After I heard about the Drowned Legacies, I drafted some stuff based on South American legends, but they all ended up rather generic.

Just finished reading the oWoD Changeling: the Dreaming core book. Is it just me or is the whole thing just bizarrely saccharine compared to other splats? It's literally about kids having make-believe adventures while vampires, werewolves, and demons are trying to destroy the world, but the changelings just don't care?

>>96392141
Why would you care about a world that's so limited when you have one where you can all the fun you want?

>>96392141
Kinda, until you remember that they're all steadily heading into the Winter, i.e. the final irrevocable death of all dream and wonder in the world and there's nothing they can do about it.

>>96392237
well it just feels kind of... harmless. Like all the Changelings can even have fake fights to the death with each other, they don't even have to worry about accidentally exposing themselves to mortals because mortals inevitably forget everything they see. And Changeling society is peaceful, mostly happy aside from Red Caps wanting to eat people but not being allowed to, the nobility and commoners have established an accord already, and even the Unseelie aren't really evil but merely chaotic in nature to represent the natural process of change which can be good or bad. The only real issue they face is finding their next hit of Glamour
>>96392246
But even if that happens, it's not the end of the world or anything, it just means they forget they're fae. It's like the only real enemy Changelings have is the assholes who won't let them all come home

>>96392284
>But even if that happens, it's not the end of the world or anything
In the same way you're still alive after suffering a gruesome traffic accident that leaves you in a coma. Or after a lobotomy.

>>96392310
It's definitely a sad fate, but it doesn't have the same gravitas as the other splatbooks which are all facing an imminent apocalypse of some kind that will literally end the entire planet
It also doesn't seem to mention any real way of fixing the overwhelming Banality of the world, so the Changelings don't really have an actual goal to accomplish. It's just survival for survival's sake and along the way they'll have quests and courtly intrigues pretty much just for the fun of it

>>96392141
It's entirely reasonable to dislike CtD, or any splat really. Unfortunately, there's been a recent trend here though to flip out whenever someone criticizes anything oWoD.

>>96392364
I don't dislike it per se, it's just not what I expected. Compared to the nWoD version of Changeling, it's a completely different game, different setting, pretty much everything is different except that it involves fairies. I expected a lot more similarity, like Requiem still has the broad strokes and themes and dark atmosphere in common with its predecessor, Masquerade

>>96392336
I mean, from a human perspective the "fae death" is basically the same as a kid finally getting over Chuunibyou.

>>96392415
I mean, WtA is Furry Captain Planet while WtF is Spirit/Material worlds Customs and Border Patrol.

>>96392415
Well Masquerade was easily the most popular and consistently liked oWoD line, it makes sense that its nWoD counterpart would be relatively similar.

But lines outside of the "big three" didn't sell very well, and had much smaller playerbases. In fact, the big three is something of a misnomer, as VtM generally did significantly bigger numbers than Werewolf or Mage. So it's not surprising to me that the nWoD lines would get further from their oWoD counterparts, with the likes of Changeling having an entirely different conceit with the only commonality being faeries and folklore being the main source of inspiration.

To anyone who is a fan of those smaller oWoD lines, popularity is not a statement of quality, please don't take this as some sort of incendiary insult to a game you like.

>>96392441
Well, they were also essentially rebooting the games and weren't sure yet how much they could diverge from WoD, and with Requiem being the first one out they probably didn't want to go too far and test the waters on it.

>>96392422
>is basically the same as a kid finally getting over Chuunibyou
Not just that, they loose all spark of creativity and passion for life. Fairy death isn't "growing up", it's depression and losing the ability to "Live" rather than just "Survive".

>>96392511
True. While I can't help but have a stronger emotional attachment to Masquerade's clans and sects, I often find Requiem has a lot of interesting ideas that take advantage of having a similar vibe and conceit but a far more open and unrestricted setting.

Reading through Demon Hunter X, does anything stop a Shih or Strike Force 0 hunter from learning the Mana Manipulation numina and generating Yugen? Yugen doesn't have a storage cap like chi does, so a hunter could store 100 point of yugen above their chi stores like that one toj scenario and completely avoid the "killing themselves by using their powers" issue.

So how are Beast and Deviant? Worth checking out? I literally just found out they exist

>>96392871
Beast is a very niche game you either play completely straight or silly but playing Freddy Krueger kind of has a short time limit. Things are probably going to get repetitive in terms of feeding and fleshing out your character.

Deviant is on a similar situation where you only get as much out of it as you put in but the flexibility gives you more room to grow and avoid repetition.

>>96392871
>Beast
Don't bother. Aside from that it's basically a sexual abuser's fantasy game, it's got weird "little brother that every other splat totally likes to have around" theming that just comes off as annoying. It's the one genuinely bad splat in CofD, and reports from the writers on how it was developed (tons of scattered email chains) it it makes sense.

>Deviant
It's basically a "build your own supernatural" game, where you balance powers with scars that act as a cost for using the powers, like how in Universal Soldier they were faster and stronger, but needed to be stuck in the freezer once it a while to reset. It also essentially dials in the antagonist scale based on how powerful your character is.

>>96392871
Beast is terrible, for reasons both inside and outside the game. Don't bother

Deviant is fantastic and, in my opinion, the perfect swan song for CofD. It's basically a big box of tools to create your own monster with its own weaknesses, and it's a lot of fun. It does demand that you fully understand the system for it to work properly, which can be a bit taxing, but if you put in the effort it's absolutely worh it

So is the way to "win" within Changeling to find ways to appreciate autumn-tainted glamour in a peaceful way?

>>96393176
No. There's no such thing as autumn tainted glamour. Glamour and banality are genuine opposites. You're basically saying the way for humans to "win" is to learn how to properly appreciate antimatter and it'll stop them from exploding on contact.

>>96392786
I just use steps of ToJ pool as the heavenly rewards for taking down ancient monsters, preventing Bhopal-grade disasters and other impressive deeds.

Do enough, and you may become one of Wu T'ian rather than Wan Kuei upon your demise.

>>96393204
Anon, I wasn't talking about homebrewing shit. I was posing a setting question on "would group X be able to do Y to solve one of their biggest problems".

>>96393187
I didn't ask to be corrected, you stinky, stinky nigger. I asked about winning in Changeling.

We need more autists from timezone other than eastern standard time. Thread activity dies too soon.

>>96393262
idk about that anon, when the thread is fast it's usually over some dumb argument, not any quality posts.

Favorite fanmade splat?

>>96393176
The only real solution would be to find a way to open a path back to Arcadia that lasts long enough for all the Changelings who wish to remain fae to cross over to their homeland, and everyone who chooses to stay accepts they'll forget everything. There's four or five major issues with this:
>these gateways never stay open long enough to spread the word that they exist, and are completely unpredictable when and where they form, which is a core logistical problem for getting everyone to cross over
>Nearly all the fairies on Earth are technically exiles from Arcadia, and Arcadia doesn't want them back. The fae that live there would probably kill the Kithain for trying to cross over if they're caught in the process, especially if these individuals have high Banality since it risks tainting the last place on Earth free from Banality
>The noble fairies living on Earth may not be interested in giving up their powerful dynasties to return to Arcadia (not that they'd be allowed anyways, given they're exiles)
>There are those among the fairies who think running away is cowardly and instead want to instead murder all of humanity to delete the Banality from Earth, returning it to the magical wonderland it used to be. Literally Manifest Destiny: Fae Edition. Unfortunately this also means they want to destroy Arcadia so that there is no other option but open war to destroy humanity

>>96393278
>place on Earth
Arcadia isn't on earth anymore. That's part of the problem trying to get there. It's only loosely part of the metaphysics of earth anymore.

>>96393327
We know it's technically 'on' Earth somewhere, even if it's magically hidden in like a pocket dimension or some shit, and North America is the closest physical region to it with the most frequent passageways to Arcadia opening up there, which is why fae from all over travel to live there.

>>96393278
>instead want to instead murder all of humanity to delete the Banality from Earth, returning it to the magical wonderland it used to be.
They also fundamentally don't understand humanity was never the source of banality in the first place. It was the firstborn fae using magical nukes like party favors that poisoned the weaving so much it became toxic banality.
Humanity radiates "Banality" because they're good at bending the weaving, which exists as part of the material universe. It's not something that originates from them.

>>96393176
The actual win for changlings would be purifying the Weaving of the nuclear fallout their firstborn fae parents smeared all over the planet. No idea how they'd do it though.

>>96393413
>No idea how they'd do it though
They just have to wait.

>>96393356
>poisoned the weaving
>>96393413
>the Weaving of the nuclear fallout
Wait, were the Old Fae the dumbasses that drove the weaver schizo in the first place?

>>96393277
Genius for having the craziest potential and Princess for the hilarious contrast.

>>96393444
>were the Old Fae the dumbasses that drove the weaver schizo in the first place?
No, the timing doesn't match.

Help me develop a Mage character concept.
Only requirements are
>Akashic OR Dreamspeaker
>Female
>Japanese

>>96393211
You're literally trying to homebrew shit. Yugen is Hsien-denaturated Chi that passes for Hsien's Glamour, and it is still capped by the sum of character's Yin and Yang.

That aside, using Mana Manipulation for Chi storage should be possible. SF0 really hates sorcerers, and views its psychic operatives with suspicion, but an implant or injection is always an option, Sorcerer Revised enables technocrat-based tricks readily enough.

>>96393553
Japanese schoolgirl mage/magicalgirl/superhero? I assume the kind that's typically the designated rape victim in hentai?

>>96393277
Leviathan baybeee

>>96393553
Say no more.

>>96393565
>Anon didn't read the deviltiger dharmabook
Anon, Lurk More before you embarrass yourself again. Anon was referencing actual rules. Non-hsien can store infinite amounts of yugen(no idea why) and can spend it for anything that require yin or yang chi.

>>96393565
>Hsien's Glamour
Hsien don't have glamour, they aren't fae. They got hit with the "changeling" label because they follow the same trope as changelings(possess/replace person and have supernatural "age categories"), but are as completely creatures entirely.
They're basically to changelings what Guei Ren are to Cainites.

>>96392141
Changeling has the most relatable horror.

>>96393526
>No, the timing doesn't match.
Darn, It'd be thematic. WoD deep lore has this undercurrent of three-stooges comedy. One supernatural fucking up leads to problems that fuck over another supernatural that has no idea what's going on.

>>96393572
>>96393578
So... Kanu Unchou?

>>96393580
Anon, assuming mortals can store and operate Chi exactly as undead and not fellow living is the height of stupidity, and most of Yugen's mentions from KotE side are about it being a hyper-addictive drug.
>>96393593
Hence "Yugen is Hsien-denaturated Chi that passes for Hsien's Glamour", and not "Hsien are Changelings".

>>96393644
>mortals can store and operate Chi exactly as undead and not fellow living is the height of stupidity, and most of Yugen's mentions from KotE side are about it being a hyper-addictive drug
It's not even about the distinction, Yugen's special effect on Kuei-jin happens because there's Wan Xian legacy in every Kuei-jin to enkindle.

Guys, is this Wonder too broken for a starter Mage? Or do you think it's somewhat balanced?
>Allows the Mage to spend Quintessence to control animals, both earthly and supernatural, and do their bidding for a period of time
>1 Quintessence: Control simple invertebrates
>2 Quintessence: Control small vertebrates such as birds, rats, snakes or intelligent invertebrates like octopuses
>3 Quintessence: Control medium sized animals such as cats (up to the size of a cheetah) and dogs (up to the size of a wolf), large pythons and varanids, dolphins, horses
>4 Quintessence: Control large and strong animals like lions, elephants and whales
>5+ Quintessence: Control animal bygones like dragons, manticores and pegasus, assuming you can find one
>After spending Quintessence, the Mage makes a Willpower roll (Diff 6-8) to control the animal(s). Botches result in the animal being commanded to do one single thing according to its most primitive instinct, as opposed to complex orders, which can easily end up with the Mage or allies getting mauled
>1 success: control one animal of the targeted species for the rest of the scene. 2 successes: control three animals. 3 successes: control animals equal to your Willpower rating. 4 successes: control a small pack or a swarm (in the case of insects and small animals). 5 successes: control as many animals of the targeted species as there are in the vicinity.
>The 5+ Quintessence variant can also be used to attempt control over Fera, Pooka and other splats. It requires a Willpower roll against the target's Willpower and regardless of successes it cannot control more than one at a time. Successes instead determine the amount of time, ranging from one turn at one success to one week at five.

>>96389677
kek i suspect when this was coined they didnt suspect it would turn into a term for sucking cock a little bit later

>>96393816
... what if they did?
This is World of Darkness. Easily in the top 3 horniest RPGs.

>>96389721
>>96389818
this is closer to saying "well water has lots of oxygen in it, how much oxygen would you need to inhale to quench your thirst?".

>>96393818
Could be, I suppose.

>>96394085
>Chad Sabbat Pander

>>96394085
There was a story posted weeks ago about a Pander going full incel and killing his Lasombra crush for rejecting him while the rest of the pack just watched and laughed.

Hear me out:
Tsundere Pooka.

>>96394242
What, her Pooka-ese is just her telling you how much she actually hates you without the slightest hint of irony?

>>96394124
>killing his Lasombra crush for rejecting him
A reasonable and rational response.

>>96394242
>"i love you, anon!"

>>96394330
Yes, but also comedically teasing you. She's also a smiley yet composed Ojou-sama
>Anon, your presence makes my day so miserable. I wish you would stop showing your face around these parts
>Oh goodie, would you look at the time? It's "please leave already o'clock"
>If you ever dare to touch me again, I will ruin your already pathetic life
>P-please let go of my hand. I-I hate it when you... do that
>The only reason why I'm keeping you company is because your lowly existence somehow generates Glamour. Don't you ever think I actually enjoy being here
>Last night was the worst mistake of my life, a lapse of judgement born from need to acquire Glamour. It wasn't even pleasant (she comes to your room tonight anyways)

>>96394229
Get some combo disciplines to bestow them your Fortitude and Potence and bam, the best fighting ring since Extreme Wrestling Warfare.

>>96394242
Honestly, Pooka's are probably the best girlfriend material in the whole WoD, depending on their animal. The dreamgirl is a powerful Seelie Dog Pooka.

>>96394410
>pooka gf

>>96394473
Hey, people already want to fuck Bastet, guys and gals whose ancestry most likely includes literal cat/lion fucking.
At least a Pooka is born from dreams and legends of carefree spirits and creatures taking the form of an animal.

>>96394484
IF you are a mage, it's fine.

>>96394473
Listen man I've got too much banality to care about whatever ottherkin or goth girl or fucking elf or something she is.

>>96394410
>gf that always likes to you
But I already have that.

>>96394619
>toreawhores
Just say NO.
I only fuck Ventrue, Tremere and Lasombra girls.

>>96390043
Teenage vampires only really make sense as showelheads or various accidents.

>>96390241
That's fine.
Legends say if single day passes without someone creating a snowflake pc for wod/cofd, the world ends.

>>96393176
The way to win is to defeat the Weaver and its favored instrument, the Technocracy. Without their stranglehold on reality the world becomes a much less banal place.

>>96394792
Don't forget to kill most vampires, since they are Banal.
Also most humans have high levels of Banality, kill them all too.
You know what, let's just kill everyone

>>96393444
no what the other anon means is dark age fae lore

banality as a universal force is not a natural part of the setting. it's a bit complicated but the fae basically found that humans started to be able to impose rules unto them through stories featuring them and given that the fae been at war with each other at that point for political reasons someone had the genius idea to baptized changelings (before the shattering changeling refered to actually been the kids of mortals and fae) to turn them into weapons of mass rules that rejects fae in a area of effect

they then without any long term planning or pattern recognition threw these at each other till there was no place untouched by banality (so the nuke comparison comes easy) and left reality behind to escape the cataclysm of their own making

then they covered this up by just refusing to ever talk about it and thus only the oldest fae even know that banality isn't natural

Technocratic civil war chronicle but it started because of pic related and not nephandic infiltration or the NWO-syndicate feud

average conversation with a lasombra

what's actually playing the ttrpgs like anyways? the rules seem so confusing and arbitrary, like do people really take them seriously? what happens if someone actually dies ingame because of terrible dice rolls? do they just get told to bugger off for the rest of the year until the story is over?

>>96395179
they roll up a new character and then we figure out how to jam this new guy into the plot somehow

>>96395179
>what's actually playing the ttrpgs like anyways?
It's mostly about trying to figure out what you want out of the game and see how to get there. The ST has to handwave some stuff every now and then but for the most part the game runs well enough.

>>96393611
It would be thematic, I just don't think either of the writing teams were interested in tieing them together. That and I prefer the Weaver realizing God has left the chat and doing everything it can to buy time because it doesn't have a safeguard anymore.

>>96393724
>Yugen's special effect on Kuei-jin happens because there's Wan Xian legacy in every Kuei-jin to enkindle
Which would mean it should also have the same effect on Shih given they were chosen by heaven to take the place of the wan xian.

>>96393788
I'd allow it, and even allow control of multiple Gangrel and Garou (if you don't sweeten the deal somehow they would slip the leash and maul you sooner or later). Controlling greater mythical creatures would always require an opposed roll and is outright impossible in some cases (you aren't winning against a celestial dragon, and some artificial monsters might be by design made too deeply bound to the master or outright immune to mental powers).

I mean, it's still pretty busted for a starting mage, but that's the whole point of having Wonders, getting an effect starting mage can't have otherwise. And, mind you, both prospective victims and envious, greedy mages will try to take it off your cold, dead hands if they learn of it.

Are Mages real in the sense that they’re humanity and not actually a monster or are they actually just an advanced form of symbiotic parasitism by a non-human entity which feeds on humanity in a different but fundamentally similar way to other parasitic supernaturals like vampires and changelings and demons

>>96393788
>spend Quintessence to control
Why? Normal wonders just need an arete roll(from the mage or wonder) and successes determine power. This sounds like a niche experiment from a son of ether.

>>96395792
Mages are human, until they turn too mentally monstrous to be called such (Nephandi, Tytalii, Euthanatoi, some VA and Verbena going full murderhobo).

>>96395792
This is one of the fundamental question-marks hanging over mage. As much as hermetics clame otherwise, avatars are foreign entities added to mage by the psychopomps, but what complicates things is that every has their own perfect avatar and psychopomp they're in a predestined symbiotic relationship with(such a shame destiny got shattered in the dark ages)

>>96395575
Shih gain the heaven boon effect that allows the to store more Chi in ToJ. Before that it won't work. After, what's the point, they have it anyway.

I mean, the only way I can see this troll logic working other than the straight case of Shih dying and returning as Kuei-jin, at which point he's not a Shih anymore, is if a Shih gains ToJ blessing then somehow falls and loses it.

>>96393176
Changelings will inevitably win when the collapse of the masquerade/veil/consensus causes the belief in magic to surge across the world.
This is inevitable thanks to DtF essentially putting a time-limit on the setting until demon acheive enough numbers to cause a second rebellion(and screw themselves by doing so. Changelings are great at finding and Changing true names, making them the natural predator of fallen angels).

>>96395852
>Shih gain the heaven boon effect
The heaven boon effect is not the same as being chosen as the replacement for the wan xian. The latter already happened when the shih were formed, the former happens because heaven got tired of waiting and gave the new-age wan-xian a powerboost to accelerate the extinction of the akuma.

>>96395876
Wu T'ian are replacements for Wan Xian, blessed immortals carrying out the will of the Heaven.
The Shih are sort of mortal aspirants, except RAW they only progress into something that long since lost favour. And the ToJ boon is the pool-increasing effect that's the only thing that matters in a question "do Shih have a heavenly-given reason to store Chi in excess of their natural capacity?"

>>96395908
>Wu T'ian
>Mummies with the potential for infinite sekhem if they figure out what yugen does
That's terrifying.

>>96395908
>And the ToJ boon is the pool-increasing effect that's the only thing that matters in a question
Well, that and how yugen mechanics work in C20. A hsien's yugen pool is equal too [yin chi + yang chi] x 2. So a hsien with 5 of yin and yang has a yugen pool of 20.
Hsien yin and yang chi also work like shih chi pools. They can spend their yin/yang to power magic at the cost of doing damage to themselves.
While probably not infinite as anon says, there's a good argument that a shih capable of making yugen could store it the way hsien do: sum of chi virtues x 2, then take damage when they start spending their actual chi pool.

Which female Bloodlines portag is the most fuckable and why is it the Malkavian?

So I just lost a friendship today over this shit. A friend who I’ve played Apocalypse and Masquerade with for YEARS (12 years) is no longer my friend because I held a certain opinion.

>>96396000
The lgbt is so low iq its incredible

>>96396000
Welcome to modern politics and the collapse of independant thought. You must now subscribe to the correct political sports team to interact with people(who typically don't know what said team does).

>>96396000
>Why is this happening to us ???
Because you didn’t listen when we tried explaining how it would turn out for you.

I’m MtF and I’ve lost at least a dozen old friends from my high school days purely because I’m not stupid enough to trust a sand person.

>>96396023
I’ve been saying this for decades. These people are quick satisfaction addicted morons who get all fidgety if they have to think slightly harder than they’re used to.

>>96395792
Mages are humans just like Mummies are humans. Avatars are part of your soul just like Ka, Ba, Shen, Ren and Khat are parts of your soul even if they can independently function.

Look up what happens to towns in America that are Muslim majority lol

>>96395924
>>96395957
My interpretation is that Wan Xian used to be able to store (seemingly infinite) Chi via that heavenly blessing which is one and the same thing, but Heavens got stingy with handing it out since for obvious reasons. ToJ thing is Heavens giving it out again because things are really that desperate. Yugen, due to its pure and unaspected nature, when absorbed by template that used to have the blessing, falls in that inaccessible otherwise pool and gives a fleeting taste of Wan Xian's splendour.

Maybe relevant that Wu T'ian are strongly either Yang or Yin aspected, changing between states is rather onerous, and there are rumours about the Third Incarnation - which I assume is that vaunted state of perfect enlightenment and seemingly infinite Chi.

>>96396000
>because I held a certain opinion
What was that opinion, though?
Did you disagree on beans in chili? Did you disagree on the morality of cannibalism? Did you try to defend pedophilia?

It doesn’t matter how long you’ve known a person, if they hold an opinion that is repulsive to you, you’re under no obligation to continue to be their friend.

>>96396044
“If you think Palestinians are stupid then you must support Israel!”
“I didn’t say that”
“But you did!”
“I can weigh and dissect both sides”
“You support genocide!”

I’m so tired…

>>96396000
I'm genuinely sorry to hear that Anon. I've lost a friend due to politics before, often I'm afraid of losing others. It's sad we can't have frank discussions where even if we disagree, we can be amicable.

>>96396056
Your position is my position.
>>96396090
I just said it was disrespectful and practically rage baiting for the pro Palestinians to interrupt a pride parade, and that a hundred protesters could cancel a parade of thousands is kind of disgusting.

>>96396000
Look man, it happens. Sometimes people can't separate and handle things independently from each other.
I know a couple who argued because of Cola Cola.

>>96396000
>>96396056
>you have to be pro-jewish because the muslims bash gays!

what if you thought about it for 3 seconds longer and saw that all of the problems in the middle east, the ones that give the excuse for them to come to first world countries claiming asylum, are all the fault of rotten warmongering jews and americans that can't go 5 years without bombing the wholesome little goatfuckers? if the jews were sent to madagaskar and segregated from the world the planet might know peace.

>>96389918
Seconding this. They can be a bunch of near-useless wights with spiked bats, they can be a spiritual paramilitary peregrination marching through your town kicking down doors while shouting Noddist lore, the source of some obscure bloodline no one's fucking heard of in 300 years with funky powers (looking at you ahrimanes), they can be a pipe bomb in your haven, or they can be a lot of ghouls disappearing in the domain before you hear the rumbling of the Vozhd they've been building in the sewers. If there's something nice about the Sabbat, it's how balls to the walls varied they can be.

>>96396111
Islamophobic piece of shit

>>96396097
>It's sad we can't have frank discussions where even if we disagree, we can be amicable.
There’s certain lines even close people cannot cross.
I have a friend (not a close friend, but a friend nonetheless) who is intensely religious. He and I have an unspoken agreement to never, ever discuss religion. We get along great in all other regards.

Life is a lot more fun when people feel free to keep their opinions to themselves.

>>96396126
The Jews control less than one percent of the Middle East - a sandy ass waste of a shithole - and that you think this is an excuse for the other 99.99% to shit and piss their pants is retarded.

>>96396155
> Life is a lot more fun when people feel free to keep their opinions to themselves.
Politics is preventing this. It’s at our doorstep and it’s impacting lives. To ask us to just ignore it is deluded thinking. It’s even suspicious.

>>96396163
the jews control the united states which controls the entire middle east region having 19 permanent bases in 10 different countries that they use to destabilize the region as israel commands. we've seen this just this year when they bombed iran.

>>96396173
Ignore politics, that's the way of living. The rich and powerful will fuck you over regardless of politics and you will vote whoever you want regardless of what you discuss most of the time.

>>96396173
>Politics is preventing this.
No it isn’t. People feeling obligated to respond to every piece of ragebait is what’s preventing it.

Just don’t talk about it and if someone else does, you can gently ask them to cool it with the politics before your game group turns into a YouTube comments section.

>>96396084
I'm not sure that makes sense. The Kuei Jin already had the favor of heaven revoked when they became undead. That's the entire reason they need dharmas in the first place, they're trying to get back into heaven's good graces.
The "Store infinite yugen" thing seems to be a property of yugen, not of the vampires. Otherwise, why are hsien able to store so much yugen? They can potentially store 40 points of the shit if they take their chi virtues up to 10(still possible in C20 with true faith or demonic investment)

>>96396155
That's reasonable in a vacuum, but politics has pressed into everyday life to the point it puts people on a collision course. It becomes harder and harder to avoid and while it may work on a personal scale, on a societal level refusing to hold honest, good faith discussion about political and cultural issues is suicidal. It either creates a pressure cooker of tension that never gets released and will eventually explode, or a culture of apathy which will inevitably lead to the polity and civilization it inhabits wasting away.

Also, this has gotten highly-off topic. We should probably go back to WoD before an overzealous janny nukes the thread.

>>96396189
>you can gently ask them to cool it with the politics
It works in real life with ordinary people, it doesn't work on the internet or with terminally online people, who will either insist that everything is inherently political or that you're trying to silence them and infringing on their free speech.

>>96396000
Palestine nuts might have some point about Israel's genocidal policies, even if Saudi-backed Sunni fanatics are just as bad as US-backed Zionists, and all of them are raging retards.

Screeching LGBT activists have zero redeeming traits. I mean, I don't think that poofters need to be persecuted, but for fuck sakes keep your shit to your homes and clubs, don't disrupt the city, and keep your propaganda to adults over 25 years of age and out of schools. That high suicide statistic among trannies is solely due to you persuading children into doing permanent and irreversible harm to themselves before they fully understand, acknowledge and accept the consequences.

>>96396217
> Also, this has gotten highly-off topic. We should probably go back to WoD before an overzealous janny nukes the thread.
Agreed. So…where were we? Oh yes, why the Family Reunion and the creation of the Hecate is a perfectly good idea. :^)

>>96396189
That might work with D&D, but ot really possible with WoD or similarly political games like shadowrun. American Politics is baked into the setting, themes, and lore of the game. On top of that, you can't go 10 pages without the writers breaking character to incoherently rant about their personal schizophrenic ideologies.
The biggest issue is that mature people, who're able to think critically and not let their politics control their life, are a shrinking demographic.

>>96396228
I couldn't give a fig about V5 lore personally. However, why don't we all rank the various clans/bloodlines of death?

Cappadocian > Harbingers of Skulls = Nagaraja = Samedi > Giovanni > Lamia

>>96396217
>Also, this has gotten highly-off topic.
It's too late. The autism genie isn't likely to go back into the bottle.

>>96396214
Yugen storage is the sole property of Kuei-jin who are the fallen Wan Xian. Even Hisien who harness Yugen are capped to the sum of their Yin and Yang like everyone.

C20/M20/V20 is retarded and should be ignored in all cases.

>>96396214
Wait, what happens if a Hsien take true faith? Does yin/yan "count" as self-control/courage?

My favourite clan are the Malkavians, I just think they're neat

>>96396262
>C20
Changeling was one of the few lines with a superior 20th edition. Previous changeling mechanics were retarded, including for hsien. Biggest issue with C20 is that it has virtually no lore, so you need books from previous editions regardless.

>>96396262
The 20th for Dark Ages Vampire is mechanically fantastic. Use it with revised or 2e lore and you're golden.

You know, shih could probably get the same effect as anon describes just using the mana background and mana manipulation without having to deal with yugen. A parapht/jade full of chi works just as well as magical enlightenment juice.

>>96396251
Aren’t they all Cappadocians (except for the Nagaraja and possibly the Samedi)?

I’ve tried to suss out the history of the clan and it just doesn’t make an ounce of sense.
I do like the idea of the Lamia, though. Those bookworms probably could have used a better chamber militant.

>>96396272
>Does yin/yan "count" as self-control/courage?
According to the kindred of the east corebook: Yes. Yin/yang and self-control/courage are the same thing.

>>96391200
Yes. If there was none, this thread wouldn't exist in the first place.

>>96396347
They're all offshoots of the Cappas except Nagaraja who Tremere'd themselves before the Tremere and fucked it up harder. Some people think the Samedi could be a Nosferatu line but I disagree, their curse is the Cappadocian curse on overdrive and they even have a weird pseudo-necromancy discipline as a holdover from before the books would admit necromancy is just a weird form of blood magic. When I say Cappadocian I'm talking the original clan.

My issue with the Lamia is that they're a checklist of everything I think is trite about bloodlines.
>All female (for what, the third time?)
>Tied to Lilith, shocker
>Built for a specific task
>Explicitly wiped out, need to asspull to bring them into a game set after the middle ages

Basically, I don't like clans/bloodlines that have a fairly narrow scope both in terms of themes and practical options, and while some unique disciplines are fun, most lineages that have them use them as a crutch. I like how many different necromancy lines there are because it makes necromancy seem less arbitrarily unique while remaining rare.

>>96396425
>Explicitly wiped out
And then they magically got better in V5.

I like the way Requiem did it, where the difference between "Clan" and "Bloodline" is mostly a matter of population numbers.

>>96396000
>>96396111
Sorry to hear about that, anon. I also lost a dear friend with that much friendship time as well over silly stuff. And we played a lot WoD/CofD TTRPG together. We even made our own world, played around it, shared memes about it, laughed together and so on.
My advise for you is to never share some opinions. I have friends that diverge from my political opinions and sometimes is better to just nod. When I see we are reaching a point that things can escalate, I just go back a few steps for things to get chill and once it's done, I change topics and make myself aware that from now on I can't go into some conversations with certain people.
But, hey, you still have good memories. Care to share some neat moments you and your friend shared in your WoD games?

>>96396347
>>96396425
Yeah. The Nagas are their own thing. But everything else is a descendant of the Cappadocian.
Their splintered clan makes sense because the Antediluvian was not all there. Not particularly attentive, then tried to genocide everyone in his clan who didn’t act like he wanted. Except the Harbingers who survived and now hate their clan.
Then the Giovanni wiped most of the original survivors out, etc.

For a game, I actually prefer Giovanni to Cappadocians because Giovanni are a little more active in worldly affairs.
>sun sets and you rouse from your deathless slumber. what do you do?
>I study the nature of death all night.
>do you…uh…go anywhere or are you staying in your lair?
>I’m good right here.

>>96396590
Cappadocius's attitude is kind understandable when you remember reincarnation is what happens to souls that fall to oblivion. As the antedeluvian master of death, cappadocius likely knew this.
It's pretty hard to care much about death when you know the victim will come back later no worse for wear.

Imagine being so dumb you support bringing over a people/culture who won’t support YOU when it matters most.

This is why liberals/leftists are the enemy of the 21st century. They’re so naive they are dangerous. They’re so ignorant they are evil. Indistinguishable.

You’d have to be a special sort of moron or demented to be a lesbian and support Iran, or be gay and support Palestine.

>>96396661
Not the best choice of bait. You're just gonna get deleted by the jannies before the autism can really take off.

What are the splats involvement with the Palli-Ishell conflict?

>>96396678
How the fuck is it bait? This unwillingness to discuss legitimate issues is ruining my nation and preventing me from playing games.

>>96396720
Take your pick. India and the middle-east are absolutely covered in nightfolk.
Everything from vampires(assamite, gangrel, ravnos), Keui Jin(children of the gods and rising pheonix dharma), Mummies(classic and Wu'tian flavor), Faith hunters, and Fera(Ahadi and Beast Courts can both show up there).
Not to mention Malkav is there. Place is basically in a perpetual supernatural warzone.

>>96396661
Islam is right about women and gays.

For anyone that gives a shit about the vidya
>>>/v/719007293

>>96396625
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I remember reading something (may not have been canon) about how the Antediluvian’s soul was ripped apart by all the vengeful spirits he tampered with in life. When he returned to unlife, he did so with most but not all of his soul; hence the pallid appearance: some of his soul was still on the other side. Then the same thing happened to all his childer.

>>96396541
> My advice for you is to never share some opinions. I have friends that diverge from my political opinions and sometimes is better to just nod.
So you can give them a free pass but they can’t give you a free pass? Lame. This is why lefties suck. They’re allowed to criticize, but nobody else. Special snowflake cancer.

>>96396590
See that's why I don't like the Giovanni. They feel like they're a poor man's Ventrue and a poor man's Cappadocian. I like the existence of the occasionally politically disinterested clan, or more accurately a clan that engages in vampire politics only to keep their heads above water.

“Sorry honey grandpa voted for orange man so we’re cancelling thanksgiving and Christmas for the foreseeable future”

>>96396769
>I remember reading something (may not have been canon) about how the Antediluvian’s soul was ripped apart by all the vengeful spirits he tampered with in life.
Probably not how it actually went, but cappa was a mage in life and a powerful necromancer at that(possibly an archmage of entropy). He's the author of the Erciyes Fragments.

>>96396795
I remember reading a story about a wife asking her husband to delete his “yay trump won” tweet because she was le sad and I remember thinking that she would have called him a bit baby (“oh grow up it’s just an election”) had it been the other way around.

World of Darkness?

>>96396829
The best thing to do with bait is to ignore it.

>>96396829
We’re living in one. There are so many dark skinned drivers ruining my beloved hometown infrastructure and I want to scream. They are GUESTS in my nation and they act like they’re kings.

>>96396720
The Chorus were one of the main backers behind the formation of Israel but that had lead to a small civil war.

>>96396795
... When was the last time you had a pleasant holiday with the older members of your family?

>>96396829
Learn how this site works friend

>>96396829
No, we are talking IRL politics and mention vampire every 4 posts to pretend we aren't derailing the thread.

>>96396790
>poor man's Ventrue
You mean the Camarilla Lasombra?

I liked playing a Giovanni once I stopped being a basic Godfather-mobster analogue and started being a really cruel blackmailer of wraiths. It fit in with any coterie and added to the mistrust of everyone else to each other.

>>96396865
I have both leftist and right wingers in my family, including trans persons and Trump supporters. None of us give a single fuck.

Supporting Trump doesn’t mean you hate trans folk and my two trans cousins know this. They aren’t insane. This isn’t sports.

>>96396755
Damn
That's like a £30 video game
What are they selling it for again?

> Supporting Trump doesn’t mean you hate trans folk
Prove it

>>96396914
59.99 to 89.99$

>>96396928
Lmao

>>96396894
Lasombra were the OG rip-offs and in my admittedly limited experience I have never seen a Lasombra PC worth their salt.

>open WoD thread
>Brujah and Toreadors fighting Assamites while the Nosfertau rub their greedy hands
We live in a coterie

>>96396949
Playing Lasombra well means understanding the difference between leadership and control.

The Ventrue understands that leadership does not mean slavish obedience. It means getting people to WANT to follow your lead.
The Lasombra does not understand this which is why they don’t have Presence.

They also have a different approach to their station. The Ventrue feel they are owed, that they deserve. The Lasombra’s clan-wide inferiority complex means they don’t feel anyone deserves anything they can’t take from someone else and hold.

Given that the Old World of Darkness had a lot of tokenism and progressive racism, I predict that the Chronicles of Darkness will eventually be viewed in a similar way.
Promethean: the Created is basically about autistic homeless people, yet it was critically acclaimed.

>>96396273
That's reasonable. While they can attract players that play them in the worst kind of way there's a lot of fun and engaging angles for the Malkavians.

My personal favorite is Ventrue. They're a good modernization of classic "vampire as the elite" tropes, remarkably flexible in the variety of concepts you can play, and have a lot of good lore to draw on without feeling restricted by it, since it's well defined but unrestrictive. People who sleep on them due to lacking a special discipline are missing out.

>>96396917
Ask them if they hate trans people. It’s that easy.

>>96396895
I hope that's true but I have a hard time believing it desu.

>>96397016
Yeah, Changeling is about trauma, Geist about capitalism, Deviant outright mentions disability.

>>96397017
Yeah, a well-played Malkavian (i.e. not Daffy Duck or the Joker) can be a truly memorable character.

For me, I like playing a Gangrel. You don’t have to be a filthy loner. There’s, to use your term, a lot of flexibility in what you can do. I like the attuned-to-the-land aspect from Dracula too.

>>96390267
>any hope that VTMB2 will be fun?
Nah. They got rid of all the chargen and immersive sim stuff to replace with walking simulator bullshit.

>>96397163
And beast is about being the abuser, but somehow also wants to pretend beasts are the designated goodguy faction.

>>96397172
Gangrel is really slept on. I like them too.

>>96397230
They're fine, just not really all that fun to talk about.

>>96397148
Explain to me how supporting or voting for Trump means you hate trans persons. I’ll wait. Explain to me how being a leftist means you can’t befriend right wingers. I’ll wait.

>>96396894
Look, I like to boo Ventrue too but Lasombra is its own class in idiocy and edgyness. To the point that if they were less edgy and evil, they would have actually have a chance to dethrone Ventrue.

>>96397172
>>96397230
A few months ago I sat in on a session where this guy had created a fantastic social combat Gangrel.
Animalism’s frenzy/Beast control mechanisms plus Fortitude’s mind control resistance components had him playing everyone like a harp.
It was really neat to see a Gangrel who wasn’t basically a pseudo-werewolf.

How would you go about making the average vampire be on equal footing with the average werewolf or mage? Because as it stands every other splat would find it trivially easy to dust the average vamp.

>>96397286
Nta, but it’s a matter of how you prioritize your own personal values.
For example, I don’t condone domestic violence, so I cannot be friends with a wife-beater, even if he is an otherwise nice guy.

If you have left of center values then you have to ask whether your potential right of center friend doesn’t like labor unions or if he wants to genocide all non-whites.

If you’re able to tolerate the union stuff, then you can be friends. If the genocide stuff is a bridge too far, then you can’t be friends.

The same goes for the reverse too. If you’re a right winger and your potential leftist friend keeps going on about expanding the franchise or the social safety net, and that cannot be reconciled with your values, and you have nothing else in common, then you can’t be friends.

>>96397286
Voting for Trump is like giving money to the Westboro Baptist Church. You are supporting a guy who's associates goals include institutionalizing and criminalizing trans people as a whole. On some level you are accepting that kind of shit if you support him.

>>96397372
I would just play curseborne because I'm not in the mood for writing all that shit.

>>96397286
>Explain to me how supporting or voting for Trump means you hate trans persons
Hate? Maybe not. But you’re certainly signaling that you don’t care if they suffer as long as you get your treats.

>>96397421
> curseborne
Is this any good?

>>96397407
Fair point HOWEVER why should the treatment of less than 1% of the population be the issue that shapes the entirety of your politics?

>>96397427
I mean yeah. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the troons.

>I don't support the Wyrm, I just enable it and let it do whatever it wants
>why are you attacking me???

>>96397372
just diablerize an ante, bro

>>96397443
>the issue that shapes the entirety of your politics?
This was actually a very clever move by the right wing: to force the left, who habitually defend any minority under attack, into making defense of trans rights a priority.
Even left-leaning people tend to be grossed-out by them and all the time spent talking about trans issues is time they’re not spending talking about how the ultra-wealthy are bleeding us all white.

>>96397270
Well they're highly individualistic so there's no structure or tradition to appeal to, and they tend to be defined by being vampires with a powerset that is at its strongest where other vampires are at their weakest, in the middle of nowhere wilderness. So in a "normal" game, your Gangrel tends to fall into the role of party muscle or animalism utility guy.

It's an unfortunate trend that discussion tends to focus around "lore" rather than characters and play experiences. I understand why, lots of effort for few (you)s. I try to do my part but the only games I can really give detailed feedback on are Vampire (both), HtV, and CtL.

>>96397372
>average mage
>trivially dusting the average vamp
in like actual face-to-face combat? the Mage would probably lose desu

>>96397493
>they tend to be defined by being vampires with a powerset that is at its strongest where other vampires are at their weakest

What do you mean by this?

>>96397500
Most vampires live in cities because it's easiest to thrive there. Easily available shelter, lots of prey, and so on.

>>96397493
>It's an unfortunate trend that discussion tends to focus around "lore" rather than characters and play experiences.
Agreed. I would like to see more discussion of ideas for characters and campaigns, etc.

Could Voldemort survive the world of darkness? Assume that all magic he does is static and thus not subject to paradox.

>>96397500
Vampires tend to prefer urban areas because there's more people there. They even made werewolves reside in rural areas and brutalize vamps to discourage people from straying too far.

>>96397543
His ego is way bigger than his abilities. His ultimate killing spell can be resisted by a mother's love or some shit like that, he wouldn't last a week.

>>96397500
Even if you remove the quantum werewolves (which imo you should), most vampires have a very bad set of powers and weaknesses for living in the outright wilderness. Animal blood is very inefficient compared to human blood, and so you can get so much for vitae at a much lower profile by staying near humans. Many clans have at least one discipline that relies on messing with the mind, and most importantly daysleep and how dangerous sunlight is makes vampires desperately need the plentiful shelter that exists with human settlement. Not to mention while animal ghouls can serve as decent guardians during daysleep, human ghouls are much more flexible in what they can do and are harder to trick.

But the Gangrel have disciplines that can heavily mitigate those weaknesses. Protean can eventually render shelter obsolete by melding with the earth. Animalism is self explanatory. Fortitude is a sleeper here since it can save you a lot of blood by preventing or reducing costly injuries that would take vitae to heal, thus stretching your limited blood supply and giving you emergency, last ditch sunlight protection if caught out.

>>96397543
Would he be a Nephandi or a House Tytalus Hermetic?

>>96397543
Pretty much this: >>96397561 because in his home series he gets hyped up as THE EVILEST WIZARD EVARRRR but all he does is kill some people. The average Tremere huffs more souls in a single ritual than he's killed in his entire career and the average Giovanni don't just kill a shitload of people but also enslave them after death. And that's not even getting into the unfathomably fucked-up bullshit the Nephandi get up to, or the hideously banal evil the Techoctacy commits daily to the point they have a minutiously quantified industrial model of it thanks to the Syndicate. In short, Voldy's a small fry and he wouldn't last five minutes.

>>96397521
>>96397544
>>96397592
Thanks.
It makes sense, but it also potentially makes the reasons for the Gangrel being in the coterie interesting.
I agree that the lack of a cohesive clan eliminates a lot of the sect-clan tension that can animate a lot of other characters.

>>96397604
both
leaning towards to first cause he fucked up his soul permanently for immortality
then again liches do that in owod too

>>96390377
>any worse than the new york trilogy
First game was good, Second game was interesting, but Third game was... Something. Trilogy didn't end up on a high note, but it was a nice story they told. That's what happens when you have a team that likes the franchise they are working with.

>>96397543
>Could Voldemort survive the world of darkness?
The same dude that gets floored and left ass-up face-down by some four-eyed limey kid year after year and gets outwitted by an emo manchild and a senile pedophile? No lol

>>96397616
This. I remember reading HP for the first time
>so the bad guy is a master of magic, he hid himself as a face on some guys head and commanded a basilisk
>he must have many tricks up his sleeve, Harry should better study all there is to know to know how counter them
And then it's just colorful beams.

>>96397689
Harry literally had Destiny 5 and was Entropymaxxing all 7 of his school years. Literally won because of a wand technicality.

>>96397543
He would die to a Pooka.

>>96397532
I've done it a few times before, a problem I've got right now though is that my current player character is not only a Hunter (vigil) with no fancy conspiracy but also the group straight man. Also it's a historical game.

So I feel like, even if prompted, nobody's going to have their head turn if I say "Yeah, this is my current player character, Ephraim. He's a lazy dandy with friends everywhere. He realized how much he had been wasting his life when a changeling almost tricked him into wandering into the hedge. He fights like a dickass rogue but has arguably the strongest moral backbone of the party."

Tell me about your most recent player character, Anon.

>>96397689
My point was that he doesn't have much of a rap sheet, hell the average human drug baron kills ten times more people in a month. But yes, you're 100% correct and that compounds the issue.

>>96397543
voldi actually has a really big weakness and that is that he is not in his own original body which means vampire, mummy, demon and probably sorcerer (not a expert here) necromancy can all oneshot him with 3-4 dots because they all have a exorcism like power to kick souls out of bodies and also destroy his horncruxes with either the same or a lower dot power

Better question, what if Voldie got replaced with Sascha Vykos in the HP universe? How fucked is everyone?

>>96397782
Don't most wizards learn to start fires with magic in second year of school? That's gonna be a hell of a problem.

>>96397793
Yes but he has Vic 7 meaning he can turn them into Tang from a distance before they can even swish their wands.

>>96397372
Put as many bodies in between you and said vamp/mage as you can.

>>96397793
they have a fire (Incendio) and a seperate explosion (Bombarda) spell, but they never use these on people

>>96397803
I'm talking about giving vampires inherent buffs so they're roughly on the same level power-wise.

>>96397802
>it all boils down to good old fashioned rocket tag
The more things change...

>>96397543
Better question is whether the vampires would survive the boredom of the dullest franchise in the history of movie franchises. Seriously each episode following the boy wizard and his pals from Hogwarts Academy as they fight assorted villains has been indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the gloomy imagery, the series’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of special effects, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.

Perhaps the die was cast when Rowling vetoed the idea of Spielberg directing the series; she made sure the series would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody?just ridiculously profitable cross-promotion for her books. The Harry Potter series might be anti-Christian (or not), but it’s certainly the anti-James Bond series in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement. No one wants to face that fact. Now, thankfully, they no longer have to.

>a-at least the books were good though
"No!"
The writing is dreadful; the book was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a character went for a walk, the author wrote instead that the character "stretched his legs."

I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Rowling's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that she has no other style of writing. Later I read a lavish, loving review of Harry Potter by the same Stephen King. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids are reading Harry Potter at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to read Stephen King." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you read "Harry Potter" you are, in fact, trained to read Stephen King.

>>96397738
>Tell me about your most recent player character, Anon.
V5 Toreador hacker. Fascinated with code. Mesmerized by an artful SQL query. Finds poorly set up network settings intolerable.
It’s a flexible take on the Cam tech ban, but using it to surveil one’s enemies and/or expose them to the authorities is useful enough to be tolerated.

>>96397848
kek
i hadn't seen this pasta in a while

>>96397848
>Better question is whether the vampires would survive the boredom of the dullest franchise in the history of movie franchises.
For what it's worth there's sporadic mentions of vampires and one makes a physical appearance in the fifth book. I remember being intrigued in hindsight that vampires were not just normal but also integrated enough that one could be invited to a party and trusted to behave himself around a bunch of juicy warm-blooded teenage girls.

>>96397875
*sixth book

>>96397875
they also mention blood candy being sold in the hamlet outside of hogwards for vampire kids so vampires in that setting are just normal dudes and duddeds who probably work the nightshifts in some wizard shops

>>96397875
I don't remember vampires but it's been a while.

>>96397908
>HP vampires are a reproduction-capable species and intelligent enough to function in wider (magical) society
Fucking Rowling, focusing on dull plots and angsty drama while leaving the more interesting setting details dangling in the wind.

>>96397814
Make Fortitude more effective. You're going to have to do the maths on that one yourself.

>>96397774
>and probably sorcerer
Summoning/Binding/Warding let you perform exorcisms. You need to be at 2 dots to affect wraiths I think.
True faith hunters can do the same thing with an advocate(level 2-3) endowment

>>96397923
>HP vampires are a reproduction-capable species
unless they are for the other kind of vampire children... but let's not kid ourselves those are kids books

>>96397863
I can always appreciate a Toreador with an atypical artistic focus.

>>96397971
Yes, I know, but it's always fun to think about when you acquire a taste for worldbuilding.

>>96397923
and they still have their own culture and communities if the guy who bought the vampire to that party in hogwards is to be believed as said vampire is there to promote the guys book about him spending time in a vampire community. We just know jack shit about any of it
checking the wiki there also seem to be a "Society for the Tolerance of Vampires" and a counter movement that wants to let vampires stay in the 3rd year books of defense against the dark arts books with the rest of the living dead and half vampires are a thing and they can work for the ministry of magic but full vampires are classified as "beings" like centaurs and because of that banned from goverment jobs

>>96398041
The wasted potential in that book series is unfathomable.

>>96397372
I mean, homebew if you really want. You can run a supervampire.

Things like, I don't know:

"Vampiric Vitality: The body of the vampire might be dead, but it is imbued with strength and unholy vitality. It has all the benefit of being dead but also its own unique ones. It's tough, far more than any dead body should be. It can soak Lethal and Aggravated damage with its Stamina, Bashing Damage gets quartered, and Lethal Damage halved.
Every 100 years of age adds +1 to all Soak pools regardless of Stamina or Fortitude."
"Vampiric Strength: A vampire possesses far more strength than a mortal. Outside of combat, treat Strength 2x in relevant activities. In combat, a vampire that hits targets gets automatic success equal to its Strength rating."
"Vampiric Speed: Similar to their strength, a Vampire by nature is far faster than before they were alive. Outside of combat, treat Dexterity 2x in relevant activities. In combat, a vampire gets Dexterity/2 as Extra Actions every round."

>>96397971
Honestly, HP world is incredibly intriguing. Banshee can get jobs at bands, you have entire departments of Wizards researching secrets of life, space, love and death. You can get tents whose insides larger than villas. So much potential.

>>96398198
>Banshee can get jobs at bands
You'd think they'd stop being allowed to be vocalists after what happened that one time.

>>96397875
>>96397923
so can wizards become vampires? do dhampirs exist and are they allowed to attend Hogwarts?
are vampires not capable to make more vampires through traditional means in HP?

>>96398414
nobody knows
it's never explored

>>96398414
I found something hilarious but not really relevant.
I was looking to Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find them to see if they talked about vampires and saw this.
> The centaurs objected to some of the creatures with whom they were asked to share “being” status, such as hags and vampires, and declared that they would manage their own affairs separately from wizards. A year later the merpeople made the same request.
The Ministry of Magic accepted their demands reluctantly. Although a Centaur Liaison Office exists in the Beast Division of the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, no centaur has ever used it. Indeed, “being sent to the Centaur Office” has become an in-joke at the Department and means that the person in question is shortly to be fired."

Racists Centaurs.

Updated this Setite!

>>96398414
>>96398463
dhampir at wizard school, I must write that down for future reference
I'm sure that will go well

>>96398484
Why does he hate repairmen so much?

>>96398551
>Accursed Heirs
As much garbage as STV produces, this is one of those few gems that should've been part of the official material.

>>96398484
Already looks great.

You know, it always amused me that the most sketchy of the Vampire clans can get daytime immunity because their Ante did some good in the past.

>>96398556
>fucking childer letting uninitiated into the temple to see your mysteries and that none of your shit is built to code

>>96398414
> can wizards become vampires
assuming we allow the spin off games then yes and some but not all vampires can also turn people into vampires if you become a vampire you also stay a wizard
>https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Victor_Ketsueki
> do dhampirs exist and are they allowed to attend Hogwarts?
yes
>https://harrypotter.fandom.com/wiki/Qui_LeBlanc

>>96398414
>so can wizards become vampires? do dhampirs exist and are they allowed to attend Hogwarts?
one guy in the third books jokes that they might as well get a vampire as next defense against the dark arts teacher so presumably
>are vampires not capable to make more vampires through traditional means in HP?
acording to old rowling website they can and just like with werewolves becoming a vampire is incurable

>>96398596
>sunlight created by magic.
urgh i hate this topic so much everytime i find it in the books

>>96398823
Why?

>>96398823
If it's because of Mages, stop let them live in your head rent free.
There are others like Cycle of Ra, Command the Lord's Fire etc.

>>96398840
some mage and changeling writers are very against magical sunlight working on vampires while some others used to be for it (past because m20 is goat boy who is very against it) meanwhile vampire and to a lesser degree werewolf (helios related gifts) are for it working but because mage most often says it doesn't which causes mage fans to bitch about mages being nerfed because of vampire popularity when vampire books themselves say "go for it"

it's just needlessly inconsistent even in the same game line(s) and shows very much how even different writers had their own wod and didn't communicated with each other

Just think magic is gay and lame and there; you killed 90% of mages!

>>96398875
>>96398893
Why are mage writers so fucking retarded? There's literally nothing they can do to stop "I build a correspondence portal, connected to the sahara, on the end of a flashlight".
Mage itself is a game about being able to do anything, but facing the consequences and responsibility of that power. Nerfing mages is literally defeating the point of the game.

>>96398941
to be fair that wouldn't be magical sunlight and would work acording to every source i know
the thing they are inconsitent about is "sunlight" you create yourself

but mage isn't even the worst about it. it's dark age fae they gave fae a entire sunlight related power set in there, talked about how fae who have this think vampires are weak shit and then none of the powers on there work on vampires as sunlight (there is still some fire on here but well...) with even the cantrip called "sunbeam" saying "this evokes not a real sunbeam and does not work on vampires" because fuck you
and unlike mages fae have no way around this

>>96398893
>>96398941
>mage fans to bitch about mages being nerfed
>Why are mage writers so fucking retarded?
Honestly, as a grognard, I got used to it.
1st Edition to 2nd was "No, you can't do that", "No, you need also this Sphere" to things Mages could do and have done in the 1st Edition.
From 2nd to Revised came the Avatar Storm, trying to keep Mages street level and even more requirements and restriction. Blood Treachy is a joke that basically ignores the past and creates it's own stuff "Oh you need more success than God to cure Vampirism!", "But I ain't trying to cure Caine? I want to cure like, 10th Generation neonate, plus that dude who turned to human thanks to a Mage lived until recently, where he got killed by Ur-Shulgi" "No fuck you"

Then came M20, I might not dislike Brucato as much as I dislike Achilli but my god his Sphere creep is annoying as fuck and always tries to restriction based on his own, real life crazy logic.

In the end, as a Magefag, eh. We got used to it.

>>96398988
>Blood Treachy is a joke that basically ignores the past and creates it's own stuff
I always ruled that Blood Treachery rules only ever applied to order of hermes mages. There were other books in the same edition that told BT to fuck off(*cough cough* The Read Sign *cough*)

>>96398484
>Commendable boldness in having such a scene immortalized in art.
>Damn Toreador painters changing details because "it'll be more dramatic this way!"

Seriously though, it's a great piece.

>>96398988
>and always tries to restriction based on his own, real life crazy logic
Dudes paradigm requirements also break their own rules in the same books. "How Do You Do That" is pretty much a meme in the mage community it's so bad.

>>96398981
>and then none of the powers on there work on vampires as sunlight
Except somehow their blood Does work as sunlight according to the vampire feeding interactions... because... reasons...

How fucked up mentally would a 1300 year old Ghoul be?

>>96399167
haha how the tables have turned

i had so much of vampires throwing blood at demons, using vitae soaked weapons etc because of devil's due in my group...

>>96397616
>The average Tremere huffs more souls in a single ritual
We almost never do that.
And when we do, it’s for the greater good (tm)

What Spheres and how many Dots do you need to turn someone gay?
I say you just need Mind 4, maybe 5 to make it permanent in the subconscious. But my friend is arguing that you also need Life 4.

>>96399176
very lucita meets a 800 year old ghoul in one of the novels and the guy has so little personality left that he can't even bring himself to care that his daughter died and was in general so creepy that she then freed her ghoul just so the poor woman wouldn't end up like that

>>96399183
I can only imagine the confusion of an inquisitot who just watched a vampire repel a demon with their blood.

>>96399176
They are equivalent to Antediluvians for your average Ghoul.
They are more knowledgeable, more powerful than most modern Vampires, they are usually eccentric and worst of all, they know they have the backing of their Methuselah. A Methuselah Ghoul is basically a vampire without most of the weaknesses.

>>96399195
>But my friend is arguing that you also need Life 4.
What possible reason would you need life for this?

>>96399220
According to her, "you're born gay, so it's part of your pattern so you need Life in order to change it."

>>96399205
especially because the red order and by extension the shadow inqusition believed in a unified army of evil that included all the splats with demons at the top

>>96399219
"Most" being the operative word here. Ghouls this old tend to develope weird weaknesses of their own, just from being exposed to caine's curse for so long.

>>96399227
i mean even if you accept that that sounds more like mind 4 + life 2 instead of 4 + 4

>>96399227
>so it's part of your pattern
Part of you Mind pattern. You'd only need life if you wanted to make the gayness inheritable.
You friend is full of shit.

>>96399227
just because it's part of your pattern does not mean you need life for it otherwise mind would not work on any living being without the life sphere

>>96399227
I can see it done at Mind 4 but Mind 5 can 100% do it.

>>96399227
Ask your friend "what sphere lets you control an inanimate object telekinetically". If her answer is anything other than "Matter, Forces, and Correspondence can all individually let you perform telekinesis without any additional sphere requirements", then kick her from ever STing from mage. Spheres have overlap, that doesn't mean you need all of them pull off an effect.

>>96397372
this is no longer the case in V5
you can easily build a neonate that can go toe to toe with a werewolf

>>96399289
>V5
We both know this doesn't count. V5 is its own universe wearing classic wod's skin. The writers themselves told us this with their "soft reboot" nonsense.

>>96399197
Skill issue. Mindwipe your ghouls and allow them to develop fresh personalities once a decade to keep them engaged.

>>96399515
I’m sure repeatedly fucking with their mind will have no ill effects when they start randomly remembering bits of personality 2 and 3 while on 5

>>96399534
People that start remembering their past lives end up fine most of the time, so seems to be a non-issue.

>>96399577
>>96399515
Based mindraper.

>>96399195
why do you want to turn someone gay

>>96398981
It's because "sunlight" for the purposes of killing vampires means "light directly coming from Helios". Only that celestine's brightness harms them, and it's even the stated reason why UV lights are useless against them. So mages and fae can't create sunlight that harms leeches because (unless mages also use Spirit to replicate Helio's presence/energy(?)*) it's not "actual" sunlight. Woofs are exempt because the specific gift (Halo of the Sun) that allows them to channel light is taught by Helio's brood of spirits, so they are channeling the real deal.

*which frankly, it's easier to just summon a sun spirit or use correspondence to open a portal to somewhere there's daylight like >>96398941 suggested

I feel like, while this rule makes sense in the context of the lore at large, it's a pain in the ass to deal with and it's only purpose is to stop (unsuccessfully) mage and changeling players from one shooting vampires

>>96399195
Is your friend Phil Brucato?

>>96399681
>So mages and fae can't create sunlight that harms leeches because
Problem is that said leeches can create sunlight with magic despite helios hating their undead asses. In fact, the fucking Baali can make sunlight.

>>96399534
That just sounds like a nostalgia minefield for yourself. Like, you haven't thought of #24 in years and now suddenly here he is like he just got out of prison for a minute.

>>96399630
For the funsies.
>>96399681
>Is your friend Phil Brucato?
Oh dear god no.

>>96399681
>it's a pain in the ass to deal with and it's only purpose is to stop (unsuccessfully) mage and changeling players from one shooting vampires
Weird that the mages writers were the ones losing their shit about this. A lot of vampire writers were 100% okay with other supernaturals bending vampires over and ass-fucking them, and killing them in combat too.

Hi, I'm the anon who plays a superhero vampire, the RED NIGHT

Haven't talked in a while, I don't know what last time I left off, but I got some big news. My character managed to convince the sheriff and her hounds to take him to vampire boot camp, apparently they go pretty extreme.

Also last Sunday I was finally above to shine. For the first time we had an encounter. Approximatively 60 hunters assaulted elysium and incendiary guns. It wasn't even close. Many kindred were oh so eager to fight, but my character shone more than most that night. I managed to get attacks with up to 15 successes.

To reward this two-parter arc the ST gave us 26 exp and now I'm wondering what to spend those on. I have recently discovered that Red Night's true clan is Giovanni (more precisely the bankers). So their natural disciplines are Dominate, Potence and Necromancy.

So far the distribution of my disciplines are:
Potence 3
Celerity 3
Fortitude 1

ST told me that it takes 5 exp to raise a discipline by one dot, 7 for out of clan ones. What sould I spend it on? I'm really considering spending 28 on Fortitude and become unbreakable. Though I could also max Potence and Celerity and keep some for later. Necromancy is tempting but I need someone to teach me that (and considering that I'm a bastard child, that'd be incredibly dangerous to learn death sorcery). I could also learn some disciplines from my coterie. We got a Nosferatu with a focus on Obfuscate and a Malkavian with Auspex and Dementation... pretty sure I can't learn that last one, and I'm not really interested.

>>96399825
Protean is always fun for combat. You can also start looking to create your own Comvo Disciplines.

>>96399825
Bro, Dominate is so fucking fun.

>>96399825
>I could also learn some disciplines from my coterie
bewaaaaare of the blood booooonds

>>96399304
sorry, it really is time to move on, V5 just has better mechanics and isn't bogged down by nonsensical lore.
the additional books really fixed the core release

>>96399825
it is so fucking unfair that your ST gives you 26Xp

after 3 months of play I'm sitting at 12 XP total now. fucking sucks, can't buy anything meaningful.

>>96399825
If this is V5, then put it all into fortitude, it's the most OP discipline beside Oblivion's touch of oblivion

>>96399965
26 XP AND uses Requiem XP expenditures rules (somewhat) too!

>>96399976
incredibly jealous

>>96399825
something you would need to find a teacher but if you are a super hero don't you need presence to aura farm?

>>96399852
Protean huh? That's something interesting, though I'm not sure I would put it high on my list

>>96399877
That I agree, and technically I could max it all at once, but I'm a 13th gen so there's a slim margin of kindred that I can use this discipline on.

>>96399888
Well we are pretty chill together. The joke is that the Nos is the dad and the Malk the mom while I'm the child of the family.

>>96399965
I empathize with you.

>>96399974
It's V20

>>96399978
I am emulating Batman in some ways. Presence to intimidate as well as Obfuscate would do the trick

>>96400046
>>96399825
more games should be played like this instead of gay suffering porn

How do I Awaken irl?

>>96400046
after you got that down and feel powerful enough in combat i would then go get auspex for the arkham games detective vision+ being able to see other people's emotional state

>>96400075
Experience religious ecstasy.

>>96400075
You hope spirits tear you apart and remake your body while also becoming your totem/mentor.

>>96400075
BUILD A BOMB! without looking up how to

>>96399888
He will be fine, ignore the digits.

>>96400075
>How do I Awaken irl?
overdose on ketamine.

>>96400075
>How do I Awaken irl?
Set an alarm.

>>96400156
>>96400202
>Cult of Ecstasy vs. Iteration X

>>96400075
Instructions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms6QXjr4JaU

>>96400075
Schedule yourself for invasive surgery, and covertly adjust the anesthetic mix so you'll regain consciousness during the procedure but remain paralyzed throughout. Trust yourself to develop the meditation techniques to escape.

>>96397163
>Geist about capitalism
Is that true? I haven't read my copy in many years.

New Thread
>>96401442
>>96401442

>>96401442

>>96401299
It's about oppressive systems as a whole, or at least the Underworld is. There is obviously more to Geist than that.

>>96399258
>>96399249
Sexual orientation is hormonal, so Life 2 as >>96399245 said would be fine.