Thread 96395017

Here we are yapping away like it's 8:35, it is a most taxing new Board Games General!

Previous: >>96380637

Pastebin: https://pastebin.com/h8Tz2ze8

Survey results: https://pastebin.com/YJPZ44rq

This general encompasses all board game genres - Eurogames, Ameritrash, Ameritreasure, Abstracts, Wargames, and especially the game that one anon is autistic about at this very moment.

TQs:
What was the best ruse you pulled at game night?

first for root sucks and twohanding games is better than playing videogames

second for 3+ games with negative interaction make no sense because it leads to inevitable kingmaking
Games should be one of the following:
1v1
team vs team
1 vs everyone
multiplayer solitaire

>>96395048
Spicy take, but understandable. Some games deal with the problem of kingmaking better than others though, it can be a total non issue.

>>96395048
>>96395137
Feels way too group dependent. Which I can see being a problem for convention play where you cant vet people. But there are a ton of games in the historical space that do the multiple political groups fighting idea for instance, and never have this problem. If this is a consistent problem with a regular group and it is a well designed game then it might not be the games fault ...

>>96395137
It's not a spicy take, it's an autistic one. The point of those kinds of games is that there is also a social game where the raw math depends on the social history of the game and not just the random variance within the system of the game.
It makes sense people on this site would just bitch about needing to play to the table.

>>96395369
These
>team vs team
>1 vs everyone
can require playing to the tale.

>>96395048
This is why Ark Novas take that mechanism should be implemented in all games with negative interaction that aren't war games/area control. You're only allowed to target the players ahead of you on the points track, and you must target them all. You get max value if you're in last place and you can't use it to win even more if you're in first.

>>96395171
I think anon means it in a more general sense than someone explicitly saying "fuck you, I'll make this third person win".

Designs with negative interactions and >2 players have an implicit dynamic where if you're not ganging up on the leader, you're letting him win. But if you do gang up on the leader, you're kingmaking the runner up.

There are many ways to mitigate this, and Root in particular takes none of those avenues, which is why it gets rightfully shit on.

>>96395549
To be fair there are a lot of games that build mitigating this into their design, playing better games helps a lot.

For Root, its a COIN adjacent design and I can speak to the genre never having that issue because of the assymetry forcing focusing on goals that arent as simple as "take down leader so i be leader". Root has victory points for asymetrical goals so I dont really get why with good players it wouldnt avoid this issue either. Like in root or other coins, i can just do my thing better while slowing down other players as a secindary goal and win despite someone being far ahead of everyone else

>>96395528
that sounds awful, an artificial rubberband to keep everyone in the race
I dont like splotter games, but I respect their "if you fucked up on turn 1, you fucked up" philosophy

>>96395369
>The point of those kinds of games is that there is also a social game where the raw math depends on the social history of the game
You don't need to be autistic to simply not like this dynamic. Personally, I find games that aren't negotiation games yet devolve into such primarily exhausting. I have no problem if that's the premise like in chinatown or SidCon, but DoaM degenerating into the "nono I am weak, HE is winning!" whinefest is extremely unstatisfying to me. Preferences and all

I wait all these years for a samurai reprint, an all time classic...and they give me a game about japanese picnics :(

>>96395637
>if you fucked up on turn 1, you fucked up" philosophy
I think it would be a legitimate philosophy if it wasn't 'you fucked up on turn 1, now sit for 2-3 more hours knowing you won't have a chance and getting out-snowballed by everyone else'. Not a friend of rubberbanding, but it just makes the game harder to get to the table, having to have very close powerlevels and all

>>96395637
Don't knock it till you try it, the take that cards are weighed such that their in inherent value is baked in the take that interaction. You can get much better value out of other cards, but when they hit right they can be game changing. All negative interaction should target the leader, but this way allows for strategic sandbagging or purposefully losing points as a valid strategy

Besides the alternative is the agent of chaos player targeting the player in second because it's lolrandom and funny. Or a scorched earth player targeting the player in third because they somehow slighted them an hour earlier in the game.

>>96395689
Reasonable take. Some people want a competitive chesslike experience, some want a twisterlike. The two are very at odds and people dont do a good job communicating what they want and the way those dont gel ruins it for everyone

>>96395528
Ark Nova having interaction is weird and the implementation is weird. But I did get marine worlds and am looking forward to seeing if it makes it more entertaining perhaps. Still on the fence if it should have just been solitaire only more

>>96395780
You can just ignore the "take that" actions, there are only like 2 or 3 of them and cards that have them also have an alternate action that you could replace them with on the bottom of the card (it's not an option when playing the card, it's something you agree upon with the table when starting the game), we use the alternate action instead cause the "take that" adds nothing of value to the game

>>96395811
>take that adds nothing to the game
says the person whose never hypnotized the leader to steal their upgraded association action right before they're about to close out the game or double pilfered an elephant off a player who spent all their credits

I will actively refuse to play the Ark Nova if someone suggests we use the solo mode actions instead of the take that printed on the cards. That's how you get a run away leader with nothing you can do about it.

>>96395615
Actual COINs don't have the dynamic explained by >>96395689, because they have well-designed wincons and stresses between factions. Root is purely that, and being a "good player" in that game translates to bonking the leader over and over. Don't @ me if you disagree, this is literally Wehrle's reasoning for rationalising the design.

>To be fair there are a lot of games that build mitigating this into their design, playing better games helps a lot.
Absolutely. Plenty of ways to do it, from obscuring VPs explicitly (Eclipse), to not counting them every round (almost all games ever), to having wincons that are conducive to making plays and maneuvering yourself into a victory (a la Cyclades or Inis).

I'm looking to get into boardgames, what are the first 3 I should get? Currently looking at...
Secret Hitler
Brass Birmingham
Marvel United

>>96395881
I play COINs not root so I will definitely take your word for it. I also don't expect good design from Leder, they're a style of substance company like many others now. I only played it once so I don't have a good enough grasp other than it didn't feel awful but it definitely was nowhere near feeling like even the COINlites I play a lot like robin hood and british colonizer sim. It's a shame because it is so popular and I wish for more gateways to the niche game genres

>>96395884
Those are 3 extremely different games. Assuming this is a legit question then it's actually an easy decision. Do you have a lot of people youll play with often and easily and want to laugh and shoot the shit? Go with 1. Want something heavy and meaty for a spouse of a close friend to play over an evening that will use your noggin? 2. Want something in the middle that is accessible to even children, has a collectible aspect a painting aspect, but is still a decent enough game underneath, not engaging for long periods, but a fun thirty minute spurt? 3. All are good for different reasons, buy all three desu, its less than 100 american dollars

>>96395615
The difference is in COIN "doing my thing better" comes at the detriment of another player (ie the Government gaining Support comes at the cost of the Insurgency losing Opposition), Root's VP system lacks that inherit tug of war and as a result causes the bash the leader bickering.

>>96395884
Can't speak for Marvel as I don't play capeshit, but the other two are perfectly solid games and among the best in their niche despite how much some people like to ree at them. Beyond that, we'll need more information.

>group size
>willingness to play long games
>any preferences
>any history with board games

>>96395884
Advanced Squad Leader
Magic Realm
High Frontier 4

>>96396016
No history with boardgames
Group size could be 2-6, rarely going higher
One person in the group may be willing to play a long game like brass, which I see is 60-120 minutes, but for the most part 30-45 minutes would be good

>>96396207
Renature
Carcassonne
Between Two Cities

>>96396207
Ignore all advice and just get a basic normie card game like flip7 , CAH, secret hitler, whatever or some normie group game like wingspan. Unless you mind losing money because it definitely doesn't sound like buying anything else so far isnt going to not be a high risk of flopping and killing your group before it starts. People need to be eased in. You have 6 people who may or may not be into this and you buy like Brass? Yeah no . crazy 8s is too complex for most beginners

Well if I tell them it's the highest rated game, I think I can talk them into it. It doesn't look that complicated from what I gather, just pay the cost and put things on the board, following placement rules.

>>96396207
30-45 minutes is really light game territory. I only have a few of those and am not a big fan generally. From Carcassonne and Between Two Cities that another anon mentioned, Between Two Cities is far better, but it needs 5+ players to shine.

If you can get 6 people together semi-consistently, and are interested in Risk-like/conquer the world type games, Quartermaster General: WW2 is crack cocaine. You can bang out games in an hour and change.

>>96396455
>CAH
The fuck is wrong with you?

>>96396536
I really hope for your sake theyre the right kind of autistic that this will work because every basic common senae social skill made me slightly physically cringe at reading that. For most people it will absolutely not work and will kill any momentum you have going unless someone or ideally two people already play games regularly

Inspired by the last thread with the dude who plays solo, I'll be playing Undaunted against myself today :)

>>96396207
Just get Catan or Ticket To Ride, no need to complicate shit. There's a reason these games are classics. They just werk.

>>96396626
They didnt indicate that the people are boardgame players. Go grab random people who never played anything beyons go fish and put quartermaster general on the table and see how that turns out. Am I high that you anons forget this place is not reality

So DOES Ark Nova have interactivity, or is it multiplayer solitaire like Paladins or Dice Forge? I've been checking out rules videos and it does sound interesting.

>>96396645
define interactivity.

>>96396536
The rules aren't that complicated, but there are some specifics you have to keep in mind which is a bit unintuitive. You need a network to buy coal, no network to buy iron, you only need a network to use beer if it's not your own, shit like that.

What complicates and drags the game out is that it frontloads the planning by givong you all the action cards you're going to use in that round upfront. So it can lead to analysis paralysis right and quick.

>>96396639
It really depends on the people. I've introduced ~10 people who have played 0 board games ever to mid-heavy games and had good to great success every time. Hell, they often beat my ass on the first try. Maybe one indication of how likely that is to happen is whether the people in your group play vidya. If they do, there's probably no need to fear something heavier. On the other hand some of those people were GFs of my mates, and they don't play vidya, so even that is not a necessary indicator.

QG:WW2 in particular is extremely easy to get into. One action, bam, next turn. And you get the various factions with different strengths that make you want to try every one of them a few times.

The thing about CAH is it's just trash. There are better social games you can recommend. Codenames, Murder in Hongkong, Mysterium to name a few.

>>96396733
Youre not wrong, and I agree CAH sucks as a game but as a tool to get the average joe excited to "play boardgames" and build rapport as a group it gets the job done for the two or three plays before people sour.

I just think it's safer to intro people with something like ticket to ride. Itll feel like a real boardgame. But OP didnt say how smart the group is so I kinda defer to people being slightly bored vs being like what the fuck is this and why am I doing this for 2 hours.

>>96396733
Codenames assumes a level of literacy a lot of people Ive tried it with didnt have or the brainpower to play it so it actually really killed the vibes when people had to be like "im too stupid to play this". Pictures version went even worse. Thats another " make sure your group is capable" game. Anything with basic counting is always safer

>>96396645
Ark Nova has more interactivity than your average euro. Player controlled round length, take that, and worker blocking. It's not obvious at first glance, but it's there. It plays really well on BGA if you want to try it out.

>>96395722
War.... War has changed. It's no longer about nations, social classes, or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by backpackers and picnic-goers. War - and it's consumption of food - has become a well oiled machine. War has changed. ID-tagged meeples carry ID-tagged cards, place ID-tagged hexes. Microplastics inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control, information control, emotion control, battlefield control..., everything is monitored and kept under control. War.... has changed.

>>96395872
Are you seriously, unironically implying the handfull of interactive cards are able to stop a runaway leader outside of very fringe cases of hypnosis

>>96396631
How are you going to handle initiative

>>96396809
>based and funnypilled
Complaining about a pointless skin change on what was originally an irrelevant slapped on theme on a math game is peak boardgamer. Spend years complaining the game is impossible to find, then they rerelease with a change that is cosmetic only and guarantees it will at least be slighltly less obscure in a decade and people lose their minds

>>96395884
Don't buy anything, go out to some board game meet ups and figure out what you like and don't like. I've got a copy of Secret Hitler sitting on my shelf that hasn't seen play in half a decade, and I'd rather sit at home and do nothing than play a round of Marvel United. (You) should be the deciding factor in what you buy. Other people are full of shit, including myself.

>>96396834
Ark nova is in a weird space where people desperately seem to want it to be more of a tight competitive experience than it is. I see so much deep strategy talk and it's always these micro level things that seem so irrelevent when it's like man I just wanna build a zoo and think the design is pretty above average. Idgaf about brainburning to win

>>96396856
I'm not the complainer though. My only opinion is "why fix what isn't broken" but the answer to that is probably shareholders and maybe some other part of the corporate structure that said "we can't have dudes with swords, we're trying to capture a wider market" but with like ten more buzzwords to really make it sound smarty.

>>96396885
Is tiletum good?

>>96396891
Wasn't targeting you specifically anon , just speaking to the general discourse around the game and how detached from reality it is. You gave me a good chuckle

I blame CMON for a lot of the trends I hate with board games (high prices, useless minis and plastic, FOMO, 100000 expansions & content...) and I am very happy they are going under.

Marvel slop will not save them.

>>96396856
The funny part is that the Thai and Mexican reprints that literally came out this year kept the original samurai theme so it's not even some hard to find grail game.

>>96395689
I agree in the abstract, but most of the time that isn't why people complain about it. Most of the complaints about direct conflict come from narcissists who want the game to validate them and never have to actually have friction between the players at all and constantly complain about kingmaking when it's a far less prevalent issue.
>>96395549
generous interpretation of what they said.
>>96395881
root is a game about kingmaking though. It's fine to have a complaint about this dynamic in that game, but it's pretty explicitly the goal of the design.
bitching about kingmaking is cuck shit. be more charismatic and win more games instead of complaining it's unfair because you seethe like a goblin whenever people choose to attack you.

>>96396976
Cool
I don't see anyway to buy them

>>96396912
I rank it pretty highly/ It can get a bit combo heavy and there are some finicky rules about not repeating crests and workers in different guild houses, but other than that it's great. It feels like a game that would have come out 20+ years ago but in a good way.

>>96396772
Too stupid to play codenames? What?

>>96396834
Nothing happens in a vacuum. Ark Nova is a game about micro decisions that lead you to an inflection point. Take that is one element of many that can cause a game to turn around. Someone literally posted a game a couple of days ago where they were losing by 55 points out of 100 going into the final round and ended up winning.

TGZ is truly just a less cool Keyflower

what is this faggotry?

>>96397195
I wasn't debating that you can turn a game around, but the score can be misleading. If you can fulfil 2 conservation projects at the highes level uncontested, chances are you'll explode one turn. My post was in response to
>>96395872
>will actively refuse to play the Ark Nova if someone suggests we use the solo mode actions instead of the take that printed on the cards. That's how you get a run away leader with nothing you can do about it.

i want to get the new lighter ark nova that uses tiles. tile laying activates my neurons more than euro cubes.

>>96396772
anon, that's a normie game what became popular during the pandemic. how can someone be too stupid to play children's guesses?

for those of you who play solo games, give me your top 5 (top 10 if you're feeling extra nice today)

>>96397221
not really though. TGZ has no auctions and no using other people's buildings that Keyflower has, and vice versa Keyflower's wealth redistribution only happens three times per game and everyone has their own minimap instead of one shared central map. Comparing the two is like apples and oranges, similar category but different enough that you put them on different shelves at the grocery store.

>>96396888
Its the most popular game on BGA with 13k+ concurrent games, obviously there's gonna be a lot of competitiveness and meta autism.

>>96397247
My comment still stands. Playing the game using solo mode actions is for carebears. Take that is well implemented in Ark Nova and it's part of the game. Removing it removes tools you need when playing from behind.

>>96397321
most of those are turn based games but yes, it's popular

As a parttime slop enjoyer, I find Ark Nova to be on the more solitaire end of the spectrum, even for the genre. Around SETI levels (the fans of which similarly insist on its high interactivity levels as if that was some objective truth).

>You need to git gud first to appreciate how interaction messes with you
That is true for almost every game in the genre; the more you play the game, the more you see it. Not saying there is no interaction in ark nova, after enough games someone snatches the free uni from the conservation track bonusses and you curse because you know how far ahead they are now and could snowball. Good and all, but compare it to how Agricola, Argent, HT and so on work from game 1 on.

I don't know why there is a need to pretend games are super interactive when they aren't; they don't get better or worse by being called this or that and you can and should embrace games that are on the lower end of the interactive spectrum and be aware of it. Makes less people go FUCK EUROS I COULDN'T BOMB ANONS ZOOS or FUCK AMERITRASH EVERYONE KEEPS FUCKING UP MY PLANS.

>>96397187
Yup welcome to my struggle. I have brought it to people who weren't capable of doing the word association at all so it flopped.

>>96397243
The only way this game will ever be relevant again. Dont act like a samurai theme is moving copies of a generic math game in 2025

>>96397260
If the cubes dont have the little cozy cutouts to comfortably sit in on layered boards Im over it. Tile laying is always kino. Barenpark monorails ...

>>96397322
I agree with that and would never play with the solo rules either, but I find the implication that the handful of interaction cards can/will stop a runaway leader absurd

I'm a board game normie compared to you. I recently played Viticulture and really, really enjoyed it. Very comfy.

Any recommendations for comfy games where you build a farm or raise crops, or make wine? Or really any other comfy games where you work on managing your estate?

The more autistically detailed the better. I'd like to get absolutely lost in depth/complexity.

>>96397380
agricola

>>96397362
>Dont act like a samurai theme is moving copies of a generic math game in 2025
why not? Shogun was a pretty popular show, people like that kind of stuff.

>>96397380
Fields of Arle for pure farming autism
Vinhos for more wine

>>96397356
Some people are so averse to conflict that a game like Azul is "highly interactive" for them.

>>96397394
Is agricola as autistic? I'm looking for Paradox-tier complexity.

>>96397404
THANKS!

>>96397448
Agricola is mid-complexity, although we roughly 6 trillion cards released for it you can play it forever. If you want offensively autistic games look for Roads & Boats or Eklund stuff. Since you mentioned Paradox its inevitably that you will eventually morph into a GMT gooner anyway.

>>96397398
Shogun being a smash hit has very little to do with the specific samurai theme and so much more to do with the incredible amount of big important dick energy that very important people threw into that project for 5+ years

>>96397380
All creatures big and small is a good middle ground to the other good recs youre getting if you want something good for two and on the shorter end but still in the same thematic ballpark

>>96397538
People love the samurai, that's it. No need to talk about penises, Anon.

>>96397380
Check out Uwe Rosenberg's games. Agricola, Black Forest/Glass Road, and Nusfjord are probably his stand outs.

My personal recommendations would be Grand Austria Hotel, though it's slightly off theme. You still serve wine though.

Phoenix New Horizon
Shackleton Base: A Journey to the Moon
Ostia

Anyone has any experience with any of these?

Are you guys ready for Shem Phillips' next masterpiece? It's coming out this year

Just saw that Aquatica and Neuroshima hex have their own duel games on the way.

>>96397658
isn't N. Hex already a duel game? what i wanted was a real solo mode

I suck at board games, but love playing them.

>>96397243
>>96397652
seriously, though, what's up with all the recent faggotry?

>>96397615
>samurai: 165
>american west: 1467
>ancient rome: 826
>ancient greece: 431
>ancient egypt: 376
I'm sure they do anon, I'm sure they do

>>96397698
Lower test levels and anime being socially acceptable

>>96397665
>isn't N. Hex already a duel game?
it was officially a 2-4p but basically a 1v1 game.

>>96397649
>Ostia
I was looking at this game because I saw some good reviews. I don't know what happened to me but the fact there are no cards in the game turned down my excitement for the game. It's probably just a phase but I seem to really like more complex, card driven games.

>>96397362
>I have brought it to people who weren't capable of doing the word association at all so it flopped.
how is this even possible?

>>96397674
That makes you truly based in my opinion

>>96397710
Yeah nothing says virility and masculinity like solving what amount to math puzzles in real games!

>>96397658
N hex duel would be nice to just have a fresh restart to the deluge of expansions as well. Not that I need or want them all, but it's a game I would prefer in a smaller box if I could, it doesn't need to be so large

are there any cool games that use a tarot deck? solo or multiplayer

>>96397380
Zoo Tycoon: The Board Game

>>96397727
1 in 5 in the USA have difficulty with basic literacy skills anon, it's legitimately a barrier because I run games for randoms a lot. People take being able to come here and chat shit for granted

>>96397740
>Yeah nothing says virility and masculinity like solving what amount to math puzzles in real games!
Yes.

>>96397741
Mr. Brad Talton has you covered
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/level99games/the-dealers-tarot

>>96397705
how to be a slimy car salesman

>>96397649
>Shackleton Base: A Journey to the Moon
Found it to be better than the average euroslop but nothing too groundbreaking. The companies make the game, and I had way more fun using the advanced ones than the very meh recipe fulfillment starting ones, although the starting setuo may be necessary to get a feeling for the game. I can go into depth but I'd give it a weak 'recommended'

phoenix new horizon was awful on bga, but I think I am confusing the name with the game about dismantling your own space station. Ah space station phoenix maybe? Anyway nevermind

>>96395048
I disagree with your stance because Cutthroat Caverns exist and has never resulted in king making in all my plays.

>>96397766
Not sure what's up your ass. You don't want to acknowledge that Shogun was a very complex work of art and that's why it succeeded and not just because its samurai, you dont want to respect the basic stats. Go fuck youself I guess, and enjoy complaining you cant afford secondhand prices for certain games in ten years like you probably did for samurai

>>96397760
Always thought he was a doctor because of how his initials are done + dyslexia. Hard to trust them though. Ten years ago sure but the shadiness has been too frequent for my taste but ill spare the drama I guess

>>96397749
I don't know the numbers of how bad it is in europe but I assume that semi illiterate people would very much avoid boardgame get gogethers

>>96397705
what's this?

>>96397786
>seething this hard
Dilate, take a chill pill, and go play Wingspan with the "ladies".

>>96397804
Spirit island

>>96397740
Math and logic is masculine, deal with it

>>96397741
Gnostica. It's pretty good

>>96397804
Theme category numbers on bgg. Of course expansions/promos will skew it but not enough that it isn't proving a point on basic popularity between historical period games. If anything modern japan is currently a trendy theme that companies are latching onto. Animal theme is running dry

>>96397705
>american west: 1467
Holy shit. I don't think I have one rootin tootin game in my collection

Fuck it, I'll try Ark Nova. Can I play it solo against a bot on BGA, or will I have to schedule an anon from here to teach it to me later tonight?

>>96397649
I have Ostia and think it's a really good time. Simple to understand, but the mancala system really rewards mathing stuff out and efficiency. The threads been discussing interactivity in euros and this one doesn't have take-that or anything of the sort. Instead it is essentially a race as you get better rewards for doing things first, especially when it comes to traveling on the main board. Not sure if "racing" is the correct way to describe it but it sure feels like it. You want to do a bit everything to score the most points, but the timing of when you do those things, with consideration to the growth of your own port and the progress of your opponents, really matters. I would definitely recommend it.
A tangent thought, but that feeling of a race is also present in SETI, but I feel like there are so many of them going on that they lose the urgency. I enjoy that game as well, partly due to theme, but that’s another post entirely.

>>96396978
>root is a game about kingmaking though.
Root is a game about milking money with cute animals from people who have not played better games. The rest of your cope of a post is not worth responding to.

Quick, cia free, questionnaire:
>Lacerda or Stegmeier, who makes better games?
>What reprint are you waiting for?
>Best game by David Thompson?
>Do you play train games (no TTR)? Which ones?
>Which 2 main mechanisms work the best together? Or you would like to see mixed together?

>>96398326
is there any randomness, variability?
Could the game just be figured out, memorizing the most efficient moves?

>>96398491
>Lacerda, Stegmeier has no good games
>Forbidden Stars but I'll be dead by that time
>Who?
>Yes, Hansa Teutonica
>Card Drafting and Dice Drafting

>>96398491
>>What reprint are you waiting for?
fucking Ra

>>96398557
who's this downie Keira Knightley looking chick

>>96398557
Thumbnail looks like a 40 year old stoner dude in a wig grimacing lmao

>>96398491
Lacerda makes games with a decent amount of passion and conviction to a mission. Stegmeier is a hypocritical cloutchaser profit first hiding behind virtue signalling but never walking the talk (plagiarism, premium gated games on bga). Reprint was space empires 4x that is on the way. War Chest is the most creative for me and got my normie partner really into gaming which was amazing, great design. I WANT TO, but I havent taken time to look into good solo ones yet. Dice stuff and anything else. Not enough use of dice in modern designs for me, overreliance on cards

>>96398491
>Lacerda or Stegmeier, who makes better games?
Aids vs cancer kind of question. Stegmeier is more tolerable, I guess.
>What reprint are you waiting for?
Condottiere
>Best game by David Thompson?
I've only played Undaunted but I want to play his Valiant Series.
>Do you play train games (no TTR)? Which ones?
Isle of Trains idk
>>Which 2 main mechanisms work the best together? Or you would like to see mixed together?
deck building + area control is peak kino

>>96398909
>>Best game by David Thompson?
>I've only played Undaunted but I want to play his Valiant Series.
Wait I have also played War Chest and Witchcraft now that I'm seeing his ludography. Is Sniper Elite any good btw?

why do people keep using musical themes in board games? wtf is the point??

>>96399046
uhhhh sweetie, classical music is refined and elegant okay????
we do not play low life games in this household

>>96398557
>>96398561
She has a playthrough video of Rolling Realms where she couldn't remember what the symbol ">" meant, so she had to say out loud some line from a children's song to know. Ah, women *sips tea*.

>a black woman with vitiligo
name a more woke cover art, I dare you

>>96398491
>Lacerda or Stegmeier, who makes better games?
Stegmeier. Lacerda games aren't even really games - more like lots of mechanics mooshed together. Stegmeier games aren't really good but I at least can have fun playing them instead of spending 4 hours feeling like I worked on home loan paperwork.

>What reprint are you waiting for?
Arkwright Anniversary Edition

>Best game by David Thompson?
Undaunted Stalingrad. Surprisingly, he hasn't made another game that I like even a little bit outside of the Undaunted series.

>Do you play train games (no TTR)? Which ones?
Yes. 18xx/RoLA, some cube rails games (Westward Rails best of the bunch), Age of Steam. I've kind of soured on Age of Steam after playing Railways of the World. It's a much better game overall because you're not put out on turn one if you get sniped in an auction and there's always tension between card buys/plays, building rail, and moving goods. It's ugly though.

>>Which 2 main mechanisms work the best together? Or you would like to see mixed together?
I like deck building and area control/worker placement. I think an under-appreciated set of mechanics are roll-and-builds like Era: The Medieval Age.

>>96398491
>Lacerda or Stegmeier
Probably Lacerda, despite all the flak he gets here, I still enjoy playing The Gallerist and his other games are okay
>Reprint?
I'm pretty much not buying anything anymore but I guess a reprint of sam--- oh nevermind
Maybe a reprint of Taj Mahal instead...?
>David Thompson
honestly had to look up who he was, I think War Chest is the only one I tried
>Train games?
Well 18xxs count as train games right? So that, I love Railways of the Lost Atlas
>2 main mechanisms
I cut, you choose, and tile laying is something I'd like to try, dunno if a game like that exists
>>96398909
Why a reprint of condottiere...?
>>96399046
What do you mean by musical themes in board games? Like Bebop? what other examples are there? Haven't seen many

>>96399186
>Why a reprint of condottiere...?
Why not...?

>>96399186
>What do you mean by musical themes in board games? Like Bebop? what other examples are there? Haven't seen many
Bebop, Lacrimosa, Luthier, to name a few. I don't see the point of it.

Lacerda represents everything I hate in modern board games.

>>96399251
Early Lacerda used to be good, until he decided to make games as convoluted as possible to live up to his fame.

>>96399232
theme matters next to nothing to me so I'm unable to understand your perplexity, but it doesn't seem like the most unthinkable choice
>>96399202
i just don't think it's worth it, I sold my copy, there better fillers for what it tries to do, and for a filler it drags on too long (especially if you use the original rules that allows you to retake occupied territories)

>>96399251
I think Lang has captured the evils of the current zeitgeist better.

>>96399328
>theme matters next to nothing to me so I'm unable to understand your perplexity, but it doesn't seem like the most unthinkable choice
In video games it makes sense because you can listen to the music and interact with it. In board games it's just a useless sterile abstraction.

>>96399328
>there better fillers for what it tries to do
name 5

>>96399365
The King is Dead
Rumble Nation
Web of Power
Battle for Rokugan
Small Samurai Empires
Small World
Mission Red Planet

>>96399457
Oh and san marco too

>>96399457
>Rumble Nation
bait?

>>96399552
He puts smallworld and battle for rokugan as filler games.
You tell me.

>>96399585
for how long Condottiere drags on, might aswell put "non-fillers" that still last no longer than an hour in the list

>>96398561
Seriously, fucking hell Chad ship me my kickstarter pledge already you lazy cunt.

>>96399710
I could probably drive down there and get mine but I've waited this long and already paid for shipping so might as well be patient. But seriously if it's not at least in transit by the end of the month what the hell are they doing?

>>96399457
I'm not sure even a single one of these could be considered a filler tbqh

>>96399800
see >>96399633

>>96399768
Nobody has even posted an unboxing video of it yet. The stuff about other countries getting their pledges is bullshit.

>>96399334
I give credit to Lang for serving the lowest common denominator in a way that gives that demographic exactly what they want with no drama. I contrast it with Stonemaier and they're polar opposites in how they present the games when their mission and strategic plan is so similar

>>96399232
>to name a few
I think you named all of them.
It's a theme like everything else, what makes you dislike it specifically?

>>96399931
They missed house of fado. Which i know I know, lucerda, but its nice to see representation of something that's niche but unique and appealing to a lot of people if they knew about it which is fado as a genre. So in that way I think it's nice. My mother is by no means a gamer but I showed it to her and it brought her a lot of joy, she can't play it, but it's a wholesome bridge between us. People who hate on theme are missing out on that kind of connection that theme can bring to bridge people who like trains, or rome, or cultural stuff, or whatever

>>96399994
Oh right, I remember reading about it, getting a little excited and then seeing lacerdas name on it. That said I remember it looking very good, artwise.
I get that hobby boardgaming is a small niche within an already smallish market with little margins, but I really do like when designers try to implement niche themes instead of the lowest common denominator ones.

I'm tempted to import picrel. The rules have been fan translated with paste-ups for the cards, but is there any way to use them without pasting them to the original cards? I don't want to fuck up the cards knowing my clumsy ass.

>>96399931
>It's a theme like everything else, what makes you dislike it specifically?
See: >>96399357

>>96400108
sleeve the original cards and then print the translations on thin paper, cut them out, and slide them inside the sleeves to cover the faces of the originals.

>>96400032
Niche real world themes rule. If even one person looks into fado and is like 'this is neat i like this' it is doing something to keep a beautiful tradition alive instead of being farm game 1000, or like space bees, or something

>Announcing a New Expansion for Twilight Imperium 4th Edition
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2025/7/31/thunders-edge/
Thoughts?
>New planet and expeditions
>Neutal units
>New factions
>Galactic events
>New game mode

>Set in a dark alternate future, the Twilight’s Fall mode has each player take up the mantle of a mad Mahact king, building their own custom faction from the scraps of interstellar civilization. With its own spread of unique faction sheets, strategy cards, and components, Twilight’s Fall is practically an entire new game in and of itself. We’ll share more details about this colossal addition to the game in its own dedicated article at a later date, so stay tuned!

>Alongside the mountain of new content unique to the expansion itself, Thunder’s Edge also includes a compilation of the standard game components from each Twilight Codex, which were all previously only available through print-and-play. This includes the Codex action cards, relics, exploration cards, the entire Council Keleres faction, and more.
One of my buddies literally just bought a professionally printed version of Codex stuff off of Etsy for silly money.

Look at this retard's board

>>96400138
Will they actually stay put inside the sleeve or will they slide around inside the sleeve while shuffling?

bgg's hateboner for Lacerda is pathetic, Kanban and Gallerist are elegant, richly thematic games, which isn't something you can often say about euros

>>96400159
>thoughts?
The worst possible implementation of an idea that somehow is extremely popular due mostly to inertia of being memetic. The Catan, monopoly, and risk of scifi. A shameful ratio of time spent to wow moments and fun. I pity the souls of players and see nothing of value in any of the expansions to mitigate the core issues.
>my stupid ass bought it 7 years ago somehow I am also a moron

>>96400210
Vital, please.

>>96400210
Fuck off Vital.

>>96400210
Is it a bit excessive, yeah probably. Is this place pretty good about calling out the handful of designers/personalities who deserve to have their egos checked equally: absolutely

What are the best euros you can think of where there's a race for points as opposed to "we do our own shit separately and then count points and compare at the end"?

>>96400250
The Great Zimbabwe or Antiquity.
Honestly I want more games to push choose your own difficulty level but within the context of what the other players will pick.

Laporca made this light game. I think it's his lightest game. Looks actually fun. Has anyone played it?

>>96400282
>Honestly I want more games to push choose your own difficulty level but within the context of what the other players will pick.
I've never seen that. wdym

>>96396636
>Ticket To Ride
That is not a short game.

>>96396636
>Catan
kys this is ass

>>96397318
>TGZ has no auctions
>TGZ has no using other people's buildings

>>96398561
https://boardgamegeekstore.com/products/geekup-bit-set-ra
This is everything except the sun disks.

>>96400199
I've never played this, what's wrong?

>>96398491
>Lacerda or Stegmeier, who makes better games?
Stegmeier, purely because his games end faster.
>What reprint are you waiting for?
WotR 2 CE
>Best game by David Thompson?
Who?
>Do you play train games (no TTR)? Which ones?
Zug um Zug
>Which 2 main mechanisms work the best together? Or you would like to see mixed together?
Dudes on a map and hot potato. The combo that produces the most ludo games.

>>96400208
Sleeves are pretty tight. They'll stay in place

>>96400159
Somehow, TI4 is the game that got me into this hobby and it's also now my least played game

>>96400250
I guess there's Himalaya

>>96400431
Look at the 4th card on the bottom row (the blue birds [kingfishers]). Look at how you're meant to build it vs how the retard built it.

>>96400473
What?

>>96400486
kys

>>96400439
>Stegmeier, purely because his games end faster.
good point
>Dudes on a map and hot potato. The combo that produces the most ludo games.
examples?

>>96400334
In the two games anon mentioned, you set your own win condition.
In TGZ the more upgrades and shit you own, the higher the threshold of victory points in order to win.
In Antiquity, as soon as you build a cathedral, you have to pick one god, and that god determines what is your win condition

>>96400334
He just gave too examples but I'm not super familiar with Antiquity so I'll elaborate on TGZ:
In TGZ you win if your victory points exceed your victory requirement. Building new types of shops or drafting special powers increases your victory requirement.
You have to take on VR to develop enough economy to score a meaningful amount of VPs but you have to be very deliberate about how much VR you take on or you'll never get enough VPs in time to win.
How heavy or light to go on VR depends on what other people are doing and how predisposed the board is to choke-points.

>>96400491
>examples
Eclipse Second Edition

>>96400489
*keys

>>96400159
Back in the day I was a consumer for FFG expansions. Now with this and TI:4 I just cba.

>>96400159
Punk ass expansion to a punk ass game

I've soured so much on Azul it's crazy

It's not that it's a bad game or anything, it's just I've played it waaaaay too much

>>96400250
Settlers of Catan

Hmm I still wonder which niche is less untapped
Solo only games for nerds who can't anime in public
Or going all in on the "girl" market. You can tell people are trying to still capture Obsession's success and are still failing
But I'm not sure if I could refrain from doubling down and making girly girl shit like >>96397652
Fuck your birds and le comfy cat games, you bitches aren't nerds because you know what a d20 is, get back in the kitchen and make some muffins

>>96400386
You forgot the
>that Keyflower has
part of that sentence. Adds important context, but sure I could've worded it better, that the auctions and other people building usage in TGZ works different enough to how it works in Keyflower that, again, you can't really compare the two.

>>96400466
Alright, thanks for the tips anon. I'll report back if I do end up ordering it.

>>96399184
>I've kind of soured on Age of Steam after playing Railways of the World.
Have you tried Steam?

>>96398943
>Is Sniper Elite any good btw?
Yes, it's good despite the ip.

>>96401190
I'm not into video games

Has anyone heard of this game, ever? With the price tag attached I can only assume it was kickstarter slop, no idea how it'd get published otherwise

>>96396645
High mostly indirect activity like Race for the Galaxy.

>>96400250
There's more than it looks at first glance. Besides ones already mentioned you have:
Dune imperium
Res arcana
Root
Splendor
Inis
Cosmic encounter
....

Even games like Radlands where the goal is to destroy all three bases are basically just score 3 points (one point for each base).

>>96401227
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lautapelitfi/agemonia
>A fully co-operative board game with challenging moral choices, set in an epic campaign for 1-4 players!

>>96401210
Yes but who's on first?

>>96401245
Somehow I don't trust the Eclipse publisher to take this concept and make it fun.

>>96401235
Cosmic Encounter and Root are the definition of Ameritrash games.
I still like them, but they are NOT Euros.

>>96401227
That's a good price but it is a post gloomhaven campaign game

If you think you'll play it solo or have a dedicated group I hear its great but it IS a campaign game.

>>96400159
>Thoughts?
The base box is already big and sprawling enough that I really don't feel the need to get the +€100 expansions. TI is one of the few games where I ignored them completely.
Also what the fuck happened to the art there, it looks kinda bad in a strange way, as if it was a chinese not!Twilight imperium ip

>>96399800
The King is Dead is most definitely filler territory.

>>96401285
I was making a general statement about games not specifically euros. The point being that they usually thematicaly hide the low point objective ( build 5 temples as opposed to score 5 points).
Other games that come to my mind: Catan, Copenhagen, that Inish space sequel, can't remember the name, and I think one of the Manhattan project games had something like this.

>>96401227
i hear really good things about this one

Remember Voidfall?
I still see it mentioned sometimes.

Is it actually a good game and am I doing Turczi wrong? Allegedly the Imperial/Captains chair series is also good

>>96402298
>Imperial/Captains chair
I like the idea of Imperial games but it was always praised as a solo game. Otherwise it takes too long. Never played it but that was not an endorsement as I don't play solo games.

>>96402345
Yeah I get that. I was on the fence of buying captains chair last thread then saw people were saying it takes 3h with a lot of downtime as a 2p game.

Frankly, 2p games shoudn't have downtime in which you aren't interested in whatever your opponent is doing. And in 3h I could play WotR, Mage Wars, Rebellion etc. as well.

I have a coupon and can only get one of these. I almost entirely play solo but rarely get one more person to the table. I play just about anything and have a huge collection but these seem to be gaps in my collection for what they are as game:
>voidfall
>terraforming mars
>seti
Which would you go with assuming all within ten bucks of eachother with my coupon. I'm leaning voidfall, especially for solo purposes. But also don't feel particularly excited about any of the three, especially after having played TFM and feeling whelmed. I play almost anything, have been for decades, and only buy absolute goat tier games anymore that give me unique fun experiences. I dont want to burn brain on stuff like spirit island often anymore. I've been enjoying endeavour DS and imperium/CChair lately so I genuinely don't think I should bother with any of these

>>96402361
It's definitely too slow multiplayer and only worth it if the person you play with is like your spouse or something where you both arent going to labouriously overthink turns and someone might get up during it to put the kettle on, or do some shit in the kitchen or whatever. As a social downtime experience for quality time top notch, but like I cant imagine having a good time at a shop or something. The anon the other day saying his wife love star trek though, yeah fuck yeah that guy is gonna have a GREAT time with her and the game. And in fairness the downtime comes a lot from people being slowplayers. It doesn't have to be that bad if people just get along with it and don't weight things so heavy, but I know that goes against a lot of peoples optimziation mindsets

I just want a big tiddy low confidence bg gf to play sekigahara with

>>96402513
Same but she should be goth and stand 6 foot 2 in boots

>>96402513
>>96402624
Same but I actually want to play Sakura Arms

>>96400199
Honestly fuck any animal that has me building shit that's three high and sits on top of it. At least with some you can just surround the tower and get the card cleared.

>>96399457
My group hated Turncoats. Is there any point in trying The King Is Dead?

>>96402642
>Honestly fuck any animal
Mister Reiner Knizia is that you?

>>96402668
*Doctor

>>96402457
>and only buy absolute goat tier games anymore that give me unique fun experiences
I wouldn't say that voidfall, terraforming mars, or SETI deliver on that.

>>96402665
Probably not, unless you're comfortable reselling the game if you don't like it

The levels of autism in these threads have gone up recently. We are finally on our way to a /bgg/ golden days Renaissance.

>>96402939
You say that but no one here considers puzzles a board game.

REEEE READ THE FUCKING RULES, FUCKING READ THEM, SIT DOWN AND READ THEM, STOP TRYING TO PLAY GAMES WITH RULES YOU HAVEN'T FUCKING READ, AHHHHH.

I CAN'T SIT DOWN TO PLAY ANOTHER GAME AND HAVE SOME FAGGOT LEAF THROUGH THE UNREAD RULEBOOK. I WON'T DO IT.

>>96400159
I remember the SUSD documentary where they discussed stuff like special fleet for each race or doing a crowdfunding route and they talked about modules and how modules just confuse that core experience. Basically everyone who built FFG left and TI:4 was their last hoorah. Modern FFG produces nothing and this feels a bit desperate and unnecessary.

>>96402943
Give it time, we haven't reached the peak yet.

>>96402969
Run the session yourself then, faggot.

>>96403075
I do and often, but when I get invited places or people really want to get X game to the table, I defer to them.

>>96402969
Imagine having a spouse who wants to play but refuses to learn a rule in their life so your entire existence is this shit over and over. It's like fuck, for once I just want to show up at a table and have someone ELSE worry about catching rule errors. But I ran con and community games for a decade so I'm so burnt out on having to not only play my own game, by monitor everyone elses turns like a hawk and walk people through everything all the time. "Run the session yourself" is fine like once in a while, but it's genuinely exhausting and you don't really have fun being a teacher all the time

>>96402854
That was my gut feeling. It seems like my post wasn't autistic enough to get engagement though. Maybe I should have put Kanban on the list to get more answers. In terms of unique though, I don't have any solo euros I don't think, so that would be filling that 'unique' void for me at least

>>96403129
>engagement
Your post did not get much engagement because there aren't many actual solo players.
I am the anon from previous thread that "solos" games by two, three and four handing them, and I don't think that's the kind of experience you're looking for -- for that, the recommendations are basically the same as regular 2-4 recs but excluding games that rely heavily on hidden info
and yeah I agree with the other anon, none of the three games listed are >absolute goat tier games

So what are your absolute goat tier games?

>>96403129
Worst part is that people then start complaining about you monitoring their turns and also blame you if they make a mistake and it isn't noticed right away. Part of the reason I stopped going to meetups to be fair.

>>96403403
Worst part is it is unpaid labour and people feel so fucking entitled to it when they couldnt be bothered to learn the rules themselves

Kemet 2e—worthwhile, or too slow closing out like Inis is purported to be?

>>96403464
You mena Blood and Sand? If you don't have the original Kemet already, then yeah I'd reccomend B&S. It'll be easier to get the Ta-Seti content with that rather than trying to fetch it on the original version.

>>96401227
I'm currently in a campaign. It's okay. That's a decent price if you like this kind of game, but I'm not particularly fond of it. The rest of the group seems to love it. Combat seems very samey with too few upgrades along the way. Half the group is using actions and gear they got after the tutorial ended. I, without knowing, picked the kickstarter reward p2w character and my game plan is literally just using the same aoe heal over and over. In the past 5 or so sessions I think I've used something else on my turn once.

I'm doubtful about the replayability as the story, and more importantly the maps, are always the same. The second time around you know the trap triggers, puzzle solutions etc. Most of the time you do still need to visit all the clue spots to access the solution, so it's not like you can just skip playing the scenario. The app is fairly superfluous and broke on us so we have to read all the story entries ourselves.

>>96403413
>>96403403
>>96403129
I don't mind learning and teaching, but I haven't done that shit for a living, I imagine it turning into a hellish experience once people are not only expecting you'll learn and teach but also feel entitled that everything is correct and you'll play arbiter of the game as well.

That said I prefer to be the teacher because I hate the alternative. Aka
>Friend keeps saying we should play [game] for a month
>Ok why not
>he puts it on the table and asks if we should watch a rules video or just read the rulebook together
Now THIS is exhausting and an absurd waste of boardgame time together, the most precious time there is. Plus I am always suprised how many people really suck at explaining rules, it can be incomprehensibly bad.

Anyway, your situation sounds like some kind of divine but ironic punishment, I'm sorry anon

>>96403281
Alchemists
War of the Ring
Hegemony
Agricola
Pax Ren
Ra
Churchill

Maybe Dune, but I get it to the table so rarely

I admittedly fall into the trap of undervaluing smaller games, but if I have 4h I'm playing one of the above, not Coloretto or Decrypto

>>96403637
>'let's play a game this weekend anon'
>weekend comes game is set up
>'ok so how do we play anon?'
FUUUUUUU

>>96403637
>I don't mind learning and teaching, but I haven't done that shit for a living, I imagine it turning into a hellish experience once people are not only expecting you'll learn and teach but also feel entitled that everything is correct and you'll play arbiter of the game as well.
The problem for me is we can either all collectively put a little bit of effort into a shared activity or one person can do most of the work and then it feels like work. Convincing people to put a little bit of effort into something, especially something social, feels like a herculean task sometimes and sometimes you feel like you spend 90% of your time wrangling people rather than enjoying their company.

>>96403721
>you feel like you spend 90% of your time wrangling people
I'm going to sound like an autistic freak here but I spent like a year of my time going between groups and meet ups assessing people to find decent players until I had enough people to form a group of 15 who are perfectly balanced in being consistent and putting in the effort.

>>96403721
>>96403792
It truly is so important to cultivate a good group and once you find good people to really hold them tight for this hobby. At the same time if I was like anon and put that effort in over a lot of time and could not find irl people to where it gets like the anon where people don't make effort then I'm fugging out of the hobby.

Like I did tabletop all my life for decades, moved to a place where the group wasn't clicking and that was it, completely dropped it. I'm in the process of doing the same for group boardgames once I finish checking out the cafe here. It's not worth doing this shit once it stop being fun and you tried your best

Thoughts on SUSD?

>>96403958
It's style over substance like a lot of the popular games. But the substance isn't terrible. The space for visual learners to get board game content or informed purchases is dogshit and has been for over a decade, so I tolerate it at least vs whatever version of stockholm syndrome couple reviewer if trending this week

With how many years gone by and all that got FAQ'd, sequel etc, is there a consensus on Gloomhaven in current year, overrated?

>>96403993
Yeah, overrated is a nice way to put it. Honestly it always struggled to beat the allegations of being a boxed TTRPG that doesn't need a GM

>>96404019
I played a little bit of a campaign of it idk 5? or so years back, and I just remember certain nerd circles were constantly slurping off the guy who designed it and really when I sat down with it, the flaws came in super apparent, especially if you were playing with any of the intentionally more challenging settings that often would only be overcome by playing a little exploitative. It wasn't the most unplayable thing ever but some of the things were a little ridiculous especially with insane power spikes. Admittedly I didn't look at every single FAQ, rule change, so maybe stuff did eventually get better but it was just a game where it had me going "this is it, how come x foot soldier can just keep endlessly spawning and always attacking so high?".

>>96403993
Who is it even for? The epitome of make something as complex as possible for the consumers who believe more complex= more good. The reality is there are experiences for half the bloat that provide the same excitement. And for people who do really want the crunch and as much of it as possible there are RPGs out there and groups aplenty. I just see it as a gimmick that was purposely made to be so over the top to get more buzz , but it a worse game for it. There's a reason why they iterated like 3 more times with less complexity ranging from moderate to extremely less, and didnt come out with an equally heavy or heavier design.

To be fair I know some people loved this for what it is so power to them though. Im glad it exists for them?

>>96403993
>overrated
I hate the term overrated because it has become massively overused. The problem for me is that being tricked by hype is a (you) problem. We all know that hype is an inflated bubble, sometimes marketing, sometimes people are that desperate to connect over something that they buy into something just to force that connection. Overrated as a term is just a reflection of hype bubbles.

Anyway, I digress, I played the base Gloomhaven with friends solidly until we had done pretty much everything. I always felt the gameplay and scenarios were tight, we always felt like we had just won or just lost, which is important for a dungeon crawler. As far as campaign games go it had more than enough stuff and whilst bloated, it's bloatedness felt like it came from a purer design place than most games after it. It hit that perfect sort of time when a lot of people were getting done with stuff like Descent and it hit. That said, games that were Gloomhaven copies prioritised a lot of the poorer choices and even Gloomhaven now is buying into those choices, such as it's last offering selling plastic miniatures to replace the cardboard standees.

So it's fundamentally a tight card game dungeon crawler with a lot of stuff that probably needed an edit but as someone's crowdfunding and more amateur offering, it blew contemporaries out of the water but not it just feels like it didn't really learn it's lessons.

>>96404019
>boxed TTRPG that doesn't need a GM
It just isn't a TTRPG. It's ultimately just a tight card game dungeon crawler with a bunch of stuff tacked on. It's just a bit of a mess desu but it's a charming mess. People calling it a TTRPG are just giving this outsider perception of how it looks.

>>96403721
I feel that way about organizing game day. My group was like 11 people and I tried to make it as easy as possible for everyone, calender availability and such. Thing is, I had not realized like 7 of them were just opportunistically joining when the stars were right and treated it more as a lax yeah I might come if I've got nothing better to do. Gaming got way better when I just organized primarily for the core group. I do miss the rare big rounds of avalon ti4 etc but we get way more and funnier gaming this way

>>96404264
These conversations always end the same way. Far too many people are just flakey. We know why, infinite distractions, they can just send instant messages, but I also think part of the trouble is we all simply don't hold people to account enough.

>>96404120
Yeah there was some neat little ideas and I totally get the specific choices that were basically a videogame in boardgame format, but some of the execution with certain things felt a little sloppy and just because it exists doesn't mean it really is a good choice. I think of the friend group I had playing it where people got irritated their little hidden character sidequest was something you reasonably don't interact with for a very long time while people have long retired first characters and all that. I'm sure there's been a dozen conversations and videos on it but we also hit a number of points throughout the campaign on harder difficulty rules when it didn't even seem physically possible to get certain things completed and stuff dipping into borderline cheesy intentionally exploitative gameplay to break things and just complete even if you stacked your card hands in such a min/max try hard way. That was usually the point we hit where it was like for the energy and effort we put in, we literally could've just ran a DnD campaign or played a wargame.

>>96404287
My friends are flakemasters, motherfuckers won't reply to a single instant message for days and when we arrange something suddenly 2 or 3 hours before the gathering "something" comes up and they can't go.

Wish I could hold them accountable but without them I wouldn't have anybody to play with, and I already realized they are the only ones that play board games in this deserted town.

>>96404120
>complex as possible
You what? I swear some of you are just talking shit. I'm not even trying to defend it. But the game was not complex. It just had a lot of stuff, a big footprint, but it wasn't complex to play. It had some good design choices and was interesting and fun to play. I feel like your outside perspectives of it rely so much on how it looked like and not how it played. And I totally get that because games don't exist in a vacuum. But I can't help but feel like this is another circlejerk. I like the game but I am honest in my praise and criticism, I simply feel like a lot of these comments you're making are just off and not based on anything concrete.

>>96404287
I'd wager I'm more understanding in this regard than most because I used to be pretty flaky as well, even if it's been quite some time now. Without real responsibilities, there's a big temptation to go the 'I'll come (if nothing better comes up)' route, and it's understandable (if a bit disheartening) that the one organizing is the one who cares the most. What I really do not get is how it's impossible to ask people 3-7 days in advance and get a straightforwars yes or no.

What is most perplexing is when I meet people who are in said opportunistic group, they almost always ask to join us next time we play and how fun it used to be when I was under the impression they didn't really care much for boardgaming.

>>96404355
>but we also hit a number of points throughout the campaign on harder difficulty rules when it didn't even seem physically possible to get certain things completed and stuff dipping into borderline cheesy intentionally exploitative gameplay to break things and just complete even if you stacked your card hands in such a min/max try hard way.
The scenarios are like threading a needle. You are playing a coop dungeon crawling and sometimes will push your luck to get more gold or do something just for yourself. Threading the needle is important, to feel like you just won or just lost.

Gloomhaven had plenty of scenarios, nre enemies, new situations and effects. But I would admit there are a handful of scenarios with quite bullshit mechanics where you did need to go full in on objective first. That being said, this was only some scenarios, not all. And on balance there were plenty that weren't like that. All scenario based games have this issue.

>>96404409
Most people use the word complex as a catchall to include excessive bookkeeping and fiddliness. I didnt want to use those words and be triggering to people who would argue that it isn't that way. I've played it physically and digitally and I think it's a lot of mental load in not fucking up the spreadsheet not in a brainburn spirit island way. But I stand by it being excessively dense and I have a limit. I love wargames with logistics, I don't need campaign for north africa detail, but too absracted is shitty too.

But I did say Im happy it exists and I mean it because some people get off on fiddly

>>96403993
Yes very. It has some great ideas and it's fun with your bros but overall I found it middling for such a massive game.

>>96404158
Calling it a dungeon crawler and referring to any of the scenarios as dungeons is generous at best. The rest timer just makes everything a mad dash through the 3 rooms to whatever objective marker there is. Some of the late game boss encounters are interesting but go fuck yourself if you're playing a character that relies on debuffs.

>>96403958
Went to shit after Quinns left. The new guy isn't funny at all. Hook-nose is sometimes funny. Still better than that fat slob Slovenian or whatever.

>>96404370
I found that giving it some form of regularity helps, but usually the problem of flakiness is too big to even establish regularity. Probably only.works with bigger groups where there's still 4 people if 9 others bail

>>96404498
>I think it's a lot of mental load
I mean ultimately you're playing two cards, one for a top action and one for a bottom action. I don't see it as having that mental load unless you let all the accoutrements colour your perspective.

Fiddly with some of the sheet amount of stuff? Sure. Obviously there is apparently integration but once you get into the rhythm I don't see it as that much bookkeeping to be fair. But fair enough.

>>96404506
>but go fuck yourself if you're playing a character that relies on debuffs
Yeah, I will say that some scenarios are AHH and some group compositions are the same.

>>96404623
>apparently integration
*App
If that's your kind of thing.

>>96404579
>regularity helps
I got into board games with a regular group who met up once a week for like almost two years straight but then it imploded. And I have never been able to recreate that.

>>96403657
>Alchemists
How good is it really? What are the negatives? It seems like a unique game but I'm always afraid it will flop with my group. For no specific reason just because it's different.

Gloomhaven's biggest sin is that it's unplayably cumbersome without the app.

>>96403993
I only played jaws but while the card system was interesting, the map book is cool and it was my first dungeon crawler it didn't feel special. I had a different idea of what the game offered based on the reviews and hype. Story is barely there, boss(es) are meh, overall an ok game but it didn't leave a lasting impact.

>>96404680
I played it all without an app and didn't have a problem. Like any campaign game, once you get into it and if you play through it, it isn't really that much of an issue.

Question: Road to El Dorado or Great Western Trail?

>>96404539
>Still better than that fat slob Slovenian or whatever.
??

Has anyone ever successfully traded games on BGG? I've tried sending a few trade offers before, but I've never received an answer back.
>inb4 ur lowballin'
I made sure that the games were at least the same value on the market. The only time I knew my games weren't as valuable as theirs I wrote in the comments that I'd be willing to put some extra cash on top to seal the deal. Still nothing.

>>96404704
I just can't see running the monsters being anything but a tedious chore, particularly scenarios like the one that spawns every kind of elemental demon each turn.

>>96404716
People forget they have games for trade or they're less active on the site.

>>96404723
Once you all know the rules around movement, you all kind of do it and click. i don't think it's any better or any worse than a lot of games.

>>96404716
Better off finding active Facebook groups. The last BGG trade I did I got sent a box of used lingerie from a pervert by "accident".

>>96404738
>got sent a box of used lingerie from a pervert by "accident".
I once heard a rumour of fake BGG trades being used for communication over illegal material or weird material.

>>96403993
>overrated
Getting the same group of people together to play the same game over and over consistently is a rarity for a lot of the board game consoomers types and Gloomhaven succeeded in getting them to do that, so in a sense it's reasonable to say they're overrating the game based on that experience and not the quality of the game itself. Gameplay wise, it's a solid cooperative euro optimization puzzle driven by cards with just the right amount of randomness to give it interest. I didn't particularly enjoy it but if you like that sort of thing it's pretty good as long as you can deal with the component bloat (jaws of the lion is more reasonable in that regard).

>>96400250

anything with end game trigger. Just existance of this mechanic means you need to keep an eye on your opponents to gauge how much time you have left to score.

Games like mentioned Dune: Imperium, Nucleum and Revive.

Top 5 pretentious board games?

Only played Frosthaven, and I was pretty impressed with the system overall. The multiple use cards, the choice of when to use exhaust abilities relative to the length of the scenario, and the subtle pull to be selfish all create a nice vibe. I was very impressed with the design for a number of classes. Geminate form switching could feel incredibly powerful, until you mess up the sequencing and totally brick. Blinkblade was similar cool with its ebbs and flows. I liked the crab and the necromancer summoning skellies as well. It's nice that all of these classes can be built in a number of ways to help with group composition and play style preferences.
Scenario design was varied enough to stay interesting. Nothing ever feels very epic, just a lot of smart ways to introduce time pressure and positional challenges. My least favorite part of the design is how it relies on surprise gotchas. Sometimes you'll walk into a room and realize you needed to do it way earlier to have a chance at winning the scenario, and other times you'll just get immediately wrecked by face checking. It's possible to get smarter about intuiting this probably, but I started to wonder if I'd just prefer knowing the whole scenario up front rather than letting it unfold as designed. Sometimes you really needed to bring a jump card and you'd have no idea until after you played the scenario once.
In terms of admin I do vastly prefer the game making use of the app. Shuffling the monster cards and tracking their health was a bit too much for me. However the app is free and allows everyone to connect to a host to admin it together. Fans have built in all the scenarios to populate automagically. That experience is excellent. Building maps with tiles isn't bad if everyone chips in. I had an accordion organizer for the tiles; we had a good system going.
Progression was decent. Finding and crafting items could feel really fun. Potions were surprisingly powerful. The settlement thing started to feel bloated

>>96404712
Bump my q

>>96404712
different types of games. What kind of game would you like? what games do you usually play?

>>96405119
Road to El Dorado is some shit game from 1999 with 4 ratings. No clue about that or any similarly named games.

So for that reason alone, Great Western Trail. I would only really recommend playing it with 3 players. Every time I played with 4 it played out weird. Probably because with the larger movement speed there's much more skipping of buildings, so a lot of things don't develop as they naturally do with 3.

>>96405182
I'm not sure. Ever since my board game group fell apart, I've been looking for something to help us reunite

>>96400250
I said it recently, but Ostia 100% has this. Trying to balance building your port, fleet, and amhpora supply while also racing your boats to the end tracks for specific 1st place rewards is exhilarating.

>>96405241
Not sure what you played when you had your board game group? Not sure if it fell apart because you keot pulling out shit games?

If it's the latter, definitely do not get Cosmic Frog. I haven't seen such a universal negative reaction to a game in 5 years.

>>96404738
WTF? Story time?
Did you end up getting the game you wanted or did they outright scam you?

>Last game that impressed you
>Games that have players gain variable (meaningful) powers throughout the game (example Kemet)
>Best current underrated game

>>96402298
I own Voidfall and think it's fucking fantastic for a Euro

The problem is the set up and teach are aids, but honestly most good Euros have bad teaches

>>96404579
My group is 3 people really (5 if you count the 2 guys that never can). And neither of the 2 will hang out unless the other can, so I'm really screwed.
I did have the chance to play with all 5 or 4 once a week for at least 8 weeks, so I can't complain too much.

>>96405045
John Company
Root
An Infamous Traffic
Oath
Molly House

I like main game, that are card driven with other elements added. DI is great, Ark nova is meh (cards just don't feel that special), Concordia is a classic.... I love a hand of cards and just thinking of possibilities.
Anyone else has an affinity for these type of games?
Brian Boru seems interesting. Maybe more of a heavier filler? Anyone played it? Any other games you like and would recommend?

>>96405422
>Last game that impressed you
Nemesis. Amazing how engaging the game is given its randomness. Or maybe because of the randomness? I don't know, I just see how people get lost in the story the game tells and forget about the mechanisms.
>Games that have players gain variable (meaningful) powers throughout the game (example Kemet)
Yes, please.
>Best current underrated game
Champions of Hara somehow never got the recognition it deserves. It's an excellent adventure game, both mechanically and in making its world come alive.

Player hater ball (recent plays edition):
>Spirit Island - it just feels like a twisted pandemic. Spirits are alright but the cards are just boring random mess.
>Everdell was pretty boring overall. Presentation is great but the game... It does seem that the theme, art and production value is what's made this game so popular.
>Hanabi was good. Played it for the first time and it worked better than expected.. Probably not made for constant play.

>>96405582
I think that Everdell would have been better if you got two seasons with production and then one season without. Having one season with production then one season without makes for a more boring game where your engine never takes off and the middle of the game is boring because there's not much you can do for majority of the game.

>>96404654
Well I'm obviously biased but I find it's extremely underrated. Baseline is a very, very good and tight wp that would already make for a great game and then you have a pretty heavy deduction game and the consequences of that on top of everything and the theme is both brilliant and really enriches the experience. Now I should stop shilling and tell you the facts; it is very much not a game for everyone. Players need to be fast and comfortable with logical deduction otherwise they're gonna be fucking miserable or take forever. The wp is pretty punishing and heavily leans on player order, resources are tight and you can get fucked hard aka be forced to waste actions. And if you fucking up even a small bit of the deduction leads to hilariously bad turns downstream. It also needs an app (or a poor fool who sits next to you and larps as an input-output machine) which sounds bad, you could use just one smartphone for everyone but you do pretty much need it which is a dealbreaker for many. It's also a 3h game and overall has a LOT of things that will filter out people, but it is very much unique in what it does. And, as said, I think the wp part alone hasn't really been done like this and is really great.

>>96404738
I, too, will request /storytime/

>>96405045
I essentially wanted to make this post as well
>>96405449

>>96404716
I've traded successfully multiple times. It's not hard as long as you put in some work. The most common reasons I'd ignore an offer are either completely ignoring my trade description (when I say I'd only trade the whole set but someone wants a single expansion) or if you're basing the trade value on some hugely elevated price of an OOP game. Yeah, if Star Wars Queen Gambit was really worth 700 dollars to me, I'd just buy it on eBay instead of trading for it.
Give me an example of a trade you proposed recently and I'll see what might have been wrong.

Guys can you redpill me about Dune Imperium? Is it worth it? If so, where to start : OG or Uprising? Sadly it's OOP where I live but I can wait.

>>96404712
Road to El Dorado. GWT is for fags.

>>96405497
>Anyone else has an affinity for these type of games?
euros?

>>96406084
Redpill is: it's a good game but Dennen and Dire Wolf are milking it hard, similarly to clank. OG is pretty much replaced by Uprising if you can stomach a few more rules, and I wouldn't be surprised if they kept milking it hard for years.

>>96406084
As someone who is a bit meh on it, I's a pretty good game. I personally find it a bit swingy for how euro-y the core game is but I'll happily play it, which is something I can't say of a lot of games I don't love

>>96396645
>>96396797
>>96401228

Technically Ark Nova has some interaction, but it shows just how far the mainstream window of design has slid that it could be considered high. Players have a very low ability to speed up or slow down the round since the main time pressure action is an alternative to playing a sponsor. This means players are almost always choosing whether to push based on what sponsor cards they have drawn, rather than the time rhythm relative to others. For the card row, the majority of game turns are played without the ability to interact with the majority of it, since it is double gated by level 2 actions and reputation. Broad strategies are usually based exclusively on the random starting hands, and have almost no dynamic reaction to revealed information about others, since the primary contention point is for conservation slots which are also gated by dependent random draws such that competing players typically fall into different levels in the end. Also the direct negative effect animals usually are played because they fit into the conservation targets and zoo shape of the player, rather than because of their text effect. This is not dynamic interaction.

If Ark Nova is the benchmark of high interactivity, where are Caylus, Power Grid, Le Havre, etc? It is hard to imagine a corresponding description without multiple hyperbolic adjectives. Even games like Concordia which I would label as low-middle interactivity are radically dynamic in comparison to Ark Nova.

An objective description of Ark Nova is that it is very low interactivity, but not multi-player solitaire. I would probably say it is the minimum benchmark to avoid the MPS label.

Reading this you might think I hate Ark Nova but I actually like it alright. The action charging system is a somewhat deep and quite engaging puzzle, and it does have that thin slice of interaction to keep you just slightly off balance.

>>96406084
I played a bunch of base OG with Rise of Ix expansion. It isn't really a deck builder per se, since half the time I feel like you want a smaller precise hand and you don't go through the deck (Imperium row) so much but I enjoy it, solid game, group likes it, easy to set up. The OG game has two expansions, Rise of Ix and Immortality. I never played Immortality, it just felt like more stuff. Ix feels neccessary as it rebalances a big chunk of the economy.

The OG was themed around Part 1 of the movie and they decided to do Uprising as a sort of Part 2. Supposedly all the expansions for OG work with Uprising but I have heard people say they are messy. The newer expansion Bloodlines apparently can work with the OG but is apparently built for Uprising in mind. Uprising adds more combat, rebalances things and you get blocked less (as the game has worker placement). I have never played Uprising but I feel like the responses I have read are completely split. Half the people love OG and Ix and the other half swear down on Uprising. I think they are too close to call. Uprising then feels like, not a version 2.0 but like an alternate version, few more rules etc. I somewhat feel like Uprising is for people who played Imperium to death.

So really it might come down to what you find avaliable and how much you want to drop. Dire Wolf games also have an app that features some additional game modes you can play with Dune Imperium and Uprising. They have also milked it further with miniatures and a big storage box.

>>96405422
>impressed me
King is Dead. It's so simple but there's no easy question of how to win. But you don't feel powerless, your actions are instead quite powerful. Trouble is all your opponents are just as able to shape events. It's good.
>gain variable power through game
I don't like games where you "grow" a character, so Wiz-War
>best current underrated game
Aegean Sea

>>96406149
yea, they're sucking it dry.
>>96406177
do you know a game that does what D:I does but better?
>>96406327
interesting. guess I'll continue digging

>>96405422
>The Great Zimbabwe
>Babylonia and The Great Zimbabwe
>Babylonia

>>96406084
It is LONG but it scratches the same itch that TI4 used to scratch.

>>96405449
>Molly House
definitely.
>Root
wtf

>>96406327
>Uprising then feels like, not a version 2.0 but like an alternate version, few more rules etc. I somewhat feel like Uprising is for people who played Imperium to death.
Uprising 100% should have just been an expansion, The fact they simply had built up so much good will from their audience that they decided to abuse it is insane to me.

>>96406406
>It is LONG but it scratches the same itch that TI4 used to scratch.
Nta, but how? TI:4 feels vastly different to me.

>>96406413
Lots of build up before the action explodes. And you have to talk to people to do your empire building successfully, otherwise you become 2+ people's punching bag.
I prefer my diplomacy to have mechanics.

>>96406449
Are you talking about the Dune board game?

Because anon was talking about Dune Imperium.

Fellas, has a boardgame ever had a "bestiary" mechanic? I mean, kill/capture monster, farm monster, get resources/items for monsters to make you stuff or put stuff, closest thing I can think of is Dungeons Petz but you care for the monsters to sell them latter, but that's not what I'm referring to.

>>96406462
oh they're different

>>96404654
Here I am, the other regular Alchemists shill. Like
>>96405759 says, Alchemists is not for everyone, it's a tight and heavy game that punish you for your mistakes.

BUT, for me at least, the brilliance comes with the deduction matrix and the deduction methods. The game is impecable in that matter. On the gulag, there's an "Alchemist Handbook" that teach you the advanced reasoning you could use to get your deduction in even a shorter tries/experiments. Theme is fun and it goes hand to hand with the mechanics. Really, only "flaw" that I found is how punishing can be, but that's your fault so GIT GUD.

>>96406480
Dune Imperium is a deck builder/worker placement game ala Lost Ruins of Arnak. Obviously it doesn't touch that old Dune board game. It is still fun.

>>96406467
It is actually a crime that we don't have a dungeoncrawler RPG-lite pokemon boardgame. Maybe someone should make one but with guns.

>>96405288
We got older and busier so you can stop being a faggot anytime and disparaging my taste

>reached 310 posts in 36 hours
>with next to zero trolling/shit flinging
Have I fallen into a Delorean and nipped back to '22/'23?

Isn't this OOP?

>>96406764
For like 30 years, yeah

>>96406756
10 posts an hour is too slow to attract real trolls.

>>96406764
this game looks fun can I still buy it?

>>96406804
I just found it for 50 bucks

>>96406346
>>96406364
>growing
>sucking it dry
I should call her

>>96406407
>wtf
I mean it tracks. It took a entire genre and appropriated the design but fucked up a bunch of what made the genre actually work and has monetized the shit out of it as well as framing itself in a very specific way like Leder always does. I think pretentious is a fair description

>>96406408
My copy of imperium was in my pipeline to get to with my group and the uprising thing was so fricking stupid and confusing and frustrating that we all just keep pushing it down and havent played it at all. I can't imagine a lot of people who would be willing to drop money on these higher end price board games were happy at all. The company didnt even try to just fucking rebrand it in a way that wouldnt piss people off which would have been so easy. HUBRIS

>>96406577
There's maybe dragon eclipse or whatever its called but that's pure kickstarter garbage and not worth touching I wont waste energy on

>>96406742
>>96406756
> the duality of man
I showed up again after a break last night and was having a hard time and contributed like 50 posts myself the last 48 hours and haven't been a piece of shit which maybe helped. t.socialwork anon. There's actually been some decent discussions though, this general never really gets super polarized and I actually see people apologize which is wild. I think boardgamers are pretty united lately because of how certain big things in the community have been going, the crabs are rising up out of the bucket

>>96406823
>My copy of imperium was in my pipeline to get to with my group and the uprising thing was so fricking stupid and confusing and frustrating that we all just keep pushing it down and havent played it at all. I can't imagine a lot of people who would be willing to drop money on these higher end price board games were happy at all. The company didnt even try to just fucking rebrand it in a way that wouldnt piss people off which would have been so easy. HUBRIS
A lot of board gamers want a definitive experience. The base game was fun but messy. Ix fixed problems. The other expansion was unneccesary. But Uprising wasn't even a streamlined 2.0. It had different ideas and plays differently, but it is like a reskin. And all this stuff of "well the expansions can be used with either game, but the first two expansions were only designed with the first game in mind and the third expansion only works with the second game" just invites confusion and turns people off.

>>96406870
Anon, I am getting old, and getting dumb. And just reading your reply took me a few tries to parse, which is exactly how it felt when they first released it just being like what the fk is going on and why was any of this necessary right now for them to do.

>>96406756
Try '14/'15. This general really went to shit during the coof

>>96406912
It is retarded.

>>96406925
I remember what really pissed me off/ confused me was the announcement of uprising was so sudden and it was like 'hey its done guys' which meant they would have been actively working on it for so long before they were even done the other exps. So the timing felt like such a slap and like incompetency on their part to the point it felt like they were almost rebooting midterm which made me lose confidence in bothering with buying it

>>96406823
>fucked up a bunch of what made the genre actually work
what was taht?

>>96406238
I am the high indirect RFTG guy. I should have said it was high competitiveness/high interplayer concern in addition to the indirect statement. I do almost everything in consideration of what I infer is my opponent's active deniable goal and usually upgrade cards pretty early to improve my hate drafting. The game is pretty solidly built for hate drafting thanks to the sunbathers and cheeky aussie cunts with pouch allowing you to deny things you won't have time to use. Things change at 3-4 players to be higher incidental interactivity but lower directionality and it's practically impossible to maintain conscientiousness towards halting other players as you will usually advance another competitor in the hate action. Ark Nova at 3 and 4 truly takes on the multiplayer solitaire aspect and I would never suggest playing at those counts. Another issue is that the balance is so mathematically tight that your hate picks will quite frequently result in a viable alternative hitting the row. It's not Hansa Teutonica, but it is like RFTG where the better player will win most of the time when they dodge a goldfish and in the same way it becomes a completely different Mariokart experience. So, long digressions aside, do I recommend it at 2p? Yes, emphatically if you can tolerate the fiddliness. At 3-4p? Absolutely not. Particularly given the superior 4p mariokart is Pax Ren.

>>96406408
It wouldn't work as a non-standalone expansion because of all the board overlays it would need so they made the right choice here even if it has been unpopular. That said, I find it much less fun than OG+Ix or OG+IxImmo with the extreme focus on sand worms and spy get out jail free cards. I picked up a cheap copy of my own to mutilate with homebrew modules and frankenstein decks so we'll see I suppose. I was already including my market negotiation module every time we played anyway.

>>96406986
>I was already including my market negotiation module every time we played anyway.
How does that play?

>>96401190
OG poster - no. I don't feel the need to play a game that's AoS-like when Railways of the World exists. It's just a better experience but I'm sure AoS players would disagree because "the auction is supposed to matter!!!" but completely forget that you have tougher choices during the 3 rounds of each turn of Railways than you do most of AoS.

>>96406986
>all the board overlays
Yeah I know, which is stupid. I think they could have made some of the changes without that.

>>96402943 Project L mentioned >>96402943

>>96403657
>if I have 4h I'm playing Ra

>>96406517
>advanced reasoning you could use to get your deduction
There's not a whole lot to be said there. The only thing the rulebook isn't in-your-face about is that if you mix 2 ingredients have 2 potions in common the potion further counter-clockwise has priority (Green > Red > Blue > Green). That's what the rule about big circles and small circles is actually doing.
The useful consequence of this is that if you mix 2 ingredients together (and don't get soup) you can be sure the ingredients you used make different potions for the color one step counter-clockwise (e.g. if 2 ingredients make a Red potion together, those ingredients make different Green potions).

>>96406971
Other anon in last thread shared a bit but the simplest answer is that root is a bastardized version of COIN. Wehrle of course went on record to say he wasnt inspired by COIN and of course didnt talk to Volko about it and made up some bullshit. But there's no way he didn't know about COIN when he riffed on it. But the issue is that he, being an overatted designer who huffs his own farts, didn't truly understand what made COIN work so well, and of course, not wanting to get into infringement stuff because of Leder nonsense, resulted in a system that is actually really fundamentally flawed in terms of how factions are supposed to interplay. Root doesn't truly work because it's just assymetrical, but the nuanced push pull within factional systems interacting isn't there. So it's actually a really poor facsimile of a system that by this point like 10+ games in is essentially perfected and being iterated on.

Root does not hold up in any way compared to modern refined designs like Cross Bronx, People Power, and Gandhi. It's much closer to Red Dust Rebellion which was made by yet another hack who used his clout to pretend at designing and missed a ton of the nuance in the design space

>tldr runaways leader problem that shouldnt exist in COIN, pretends not to be derivative of COIN, lack nuance of COIN

>>96406986
I have snapped things that looked good for both players, so I get what you are talking about, I think we mainly disagree on the degree. I might have even used a non-action snap to pick something I was going to discard a few times, but a 5-power Card action Snap into a discard is very inefficient and rarely profitable even in 2 player in my opinion. The combined chance of drawing a useful card from the deck and extra fuel makes the multi-draw preferable in almost all possible circumstances. If player hands were open information it might be different, but all player often blind drawing further weakens counterpicks, since you often can't judge what the other player wants.

I love your description of Pax as mariokart, I am going to borrow that.

>>96407099
>Wehrle of course went on record to say he wasnt inspired by COIN
Anon I don't like his designs either but I am pretty sure he said he WAS inspired by the COIN system

>>96407159
Unless I missed an interview, in his designer diary for root he namedrops Andean abyss but is very sneaky about his wording and says its an example of what he would want to do for a heavy strategy game. I dont really give him
benefit of the doubt anymore, it felt very intentionally worded

>>96407099
>Other anon in last thread shared a bit
couldn't find anything :(
>It's much closer to Red Dust Rebellion which was made by yet another hack who used his clout to pretend at designing and missed a ton of the nuance in the design space
the guy from new zealand who make youtube videos, right?

>>96407099
I think the single largest flaw in Root is that players score abstract VPs that are no longer located on the board. This is a very poor model of a political conflict and it leads players to be inwardly focused. Instead of competing with others for space you can often all score your points for a round or more with almost no interaction. Additionally it means that there can be no approximate equilibriums, since almost all factions can never lose points and will be gaining at least a trickle.

For a supposedly deep diplomacy game it always cracks me up that a winning move is often so simple as crafting a card from hand or doing a mission as the Vagabond.

Andean Abyss by contrast (and probably the other COINs I haven't played) has the VPs as components on the board that others can interact with.

>>96407244
In Root you build a sawmill and that's 1 VP. WTF. I thought war games gave you points for killing enemies and controlling territories.

>>96407254
A windmill is a better representation of area control than a stupid little cardboard tile that says you "fortified" an area. Fortified how? With what? What are we fighting over? And we're all doing it on this ugly ass map?

>>96407261
There are no windmills in Root, though. At least not in the base game.

>>96407244
>this

>>96407240
Does anyone know why they even partnered with him for it. Was it just the money because its selling gangbusters compared to the average GMT game? I really want to believe that aftet IRONY of having the convicted sex offender founder design a president simulator they would have a bit of integrity left but it really feels like it was just convenience for marketing vs actually getting a good design based on all the stuff i read

>>96407276
He has another game coming out:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/421872/shadow-moon-syndicates

>>96407276
>Does anyone know why they even partnered with him for it.
From interviews, he'd worked as a tester on some GMT projects before and when they were taking ideas he pitched sci-fi to volko and mentioned the Foundations series

What do you think about Joe Klipfel? Have you heard of him? Perhaps he's more known in the solo scene than the multiplayer one. Some of his games include:
>Gloomhaven: Buttons & Bugs
>Dragons of Etchinstone
>Rome: Fate of an Empire

>>96407287
Which unsurprisingly is also uninspired junk. Giving a mainline COIN title and the first scifi one to a first time designer is embarassing but on brand for GMT lately

>>96407309
>Rome: Fate of an Empire
This looks like Carcassone for fascists.

>>96407261
You are correct and Root would make a lot more sense if you won by having a certain amount of our infrastructure in place, but the Cats actually score for the action of building and you lose no points when your building is destroyed. The Birds often want their buildings destroyed by others for their own reason.
It is possible for the Cats and the Birds to trade a space back and forth repeatedly razing and building on the same spot, and they can both profit greatly by doing so.

>>96407325
They're saying it's like a mini Mage Knight with a Roman theme. But apparently somewhat anticlimatic because it doesn't have final bosses or whatever, just some MK mechanic. Looks... interesting.

Just bought Root, what am I in for? I heard you guys liked this one.

>>96407341
How do you feel about taking knots?

>>96407325
>This looks like Carcassone for fascists.
so Carcassonne

>>96407309
>Dragons of Etchinstone
He released this on Gamecrafter, got a bit of buzz and then Chip Theory picked it up. It's like when an indie rocker who performs at bars signs a deal with a big record label overnight kek

>>96407344
only if you have the winter expansion. it adds barrels(!)

my monthly money budget for food: 200 bucks. the total value of games bought: 210 bucks. Seems like i can't pay rent this month

>>96407029
I quite like Railways of the world, I wish it got more discussion here. With the enormous board, generously high age rating of 14+, and really long setup time it seems complicated. But it's really rather simple, as far as rules overhead is concerned.

>>96407371
I find that if you have a really good euro game, payable solo or with up to four people, you really don't need friends or financial stability.

>>96407341
Get the sex expansion, that's the most important module.

>>96398160
Ark Nova solo game is extremely difficult and unforgiving, I strongly recommend learning in higher player count games.

>>96407371
I can help you pay your rent but you're gonna have to do something for me...

>>96407518
Do NOT make him play Lisboa with you. That's unethical.

>>96407532
Oh I have something far worse in mind....

Help me trim my collection, which of these games should I purge, which shouldn't I purge, and why...
QE
Pax pamir
Lost Ruins of arnak
Marco polo ii
The king is dead
Cosmic encounter
Azul
Archipelago
Pandemic rome
Sky team
The crew deep sea
Arctic scavengers
Kingdomino
Queendomino
Babylonia
Innovation
caper europe
7 wonders duel
Black angel
Grand Austria hotel
Keyflower
Tzolkin
Ankh
Village

>>96407553
I can't imagine getting rid of Pax Pamir, unless your friends are just too dumb for it.

>>96407553
>Kingdomino
>Queendomino
do you really need both?

how many interracial couples are there in the youtube boardgaming world? every other day I discover a new one

>>96407011
It comes from an ever-growing deck of edicts to be voted in and out of the high council regarding the rules of engagement and the imperium row. Each player is dealt two at the start of the game and then an initial vote is conducted on the initial rules. Two of them have been popular enough to get implemented as the defacto baseline in our group.
Pointed negotiations: instead of taking the combat power bump you may instead assign daggers to kill off a market row card 1+ a pusher (acceding vote) for 1-3 cost cards 2 for 4 - 6 cost and 3 for 7+. You can also assign one and hope that someone else finishes the job for you in the event of success the daggers are trashed. Makes daggers much more useful and also leads to some funny misplays where people get locked out of the council for a time.
Convincing diplomacy: When you visit a faction space you may trash a convincing argument to use the on play ability of a faction aligned card in the imperium row, but you may not recruit that card at reveal this round.

The overarching system of edicts is conducted thus: when a player takes the first high council seat they may discard a current edict and propose a replacement. At the end of the round votes are tallied according to the number of workers assigned to green spaces and for the purposes of the vote the high council members count, though not in the round of proposal. For subsequent high council seats to summarily discard an edict there must be quorum on the council and in the event of failure you may still put forth a replacement for voting in but the edict to be discarded must also be voted on.

Still dialing in a number of balance aspects, but Doon is more enjoyable for us with this injected politicking and deck refinement access that can also go horribly wrong.

>>96407377
>more discussion
Hard to discuss it when you can't buy and play it. It seems completely sold out until a second printing run. I don't even think it made it to retail in any capacity here in straya.

>>96407755
Just pnp it replacing trains with spiders.

>>96407553
I think its best not to worry about other people's opinions or what is popular. Keep what you play the most often and your groups have the best time with, purge what you play the least.

I think it only matters to estimate quality for things you might buy in the future.

>>96407553
>Cosmic Encounter
Why?
>It's shit

>>96407766
it's the only good game there

>>96407755
Huh. I bought my copy right from a local game store, and the says "In stock". Granted, I am in 'merica.

>>96407778
No wonder you get these awful digits when your taste is so bad. Stay ameritrash, ameritrash

>>96407793
ok eurofag.

>>96406823
>higher end price board games
The difference between imperium and uprising is less than 10 euros here. Both in the 45-55 range. And if uprising adds the expansion stuff it makes sense.

>>96407553
I'd get rid of Arnak all day. It's mid af.

>>96406408
>Uprising 100% should have just been an expansion
I like what they did with Uprising. Maybe a bit too soon.
They should do the same for other games with lots of expansions. For example Terraforming Mars and Ares Expedition. No one is going into a game with a bilion expansions and fixes, just make the ultimate edition with the best parts of expansions and upated art.

>>96407951
Uprising has the retarded combat rework, so it's really not even a best-of.

>>96407950
Yeah, Arnak was one I definitely planned on purging
>>96407602
Well they're both in the qd box, so it's both or none

>>96407987
You could pitch Kingdomino and store Innovation in the Queendomino box.

>>96407951
>. No one is going into a game with a bilion expansions and fixes, just make the ultimate edition with the best parts of expansions and upated art.
that's what they did with Cyclades I think. some people still prefer the OG, though.

>>96407553
I'd guess that people are rarely clamoring to play Archipelago or Black Angel.

How does Bruno Cathala manage to make good games in so many different genres but people like Lacerda make basically the same shit every time?

>>96408004
You still need to make a competent game. Pick the right things to add, what to leave out and the art should be a general upgrade. Kemet seemed to be more successful with 2ed.

>>96408050
true

>>96407985
oh no, you can't ignore combat anymore
why god why

>>96407985
>>96408066
Explain, what's the problem? In Uprising they emphasize the combat or what? The rewards are bigger?

>>96407341
It plays well and is fun when everyone knows how each faction works and can accurately assess who's the leader and who needs to be bashed. Or, that's what they say, I personally have never had a fun game of Root.

>>96407553
Purge the games you play less often. Simple as.

>>96405850
Barring that time I mentioned where I offered to put cash on top, I haven't tried again this year. Last year I offered Awkward Guests for Camel Up.

>>96406742
>still no answer
The question was what games you like, you demented boomer. Apparently you had a group before. Nobody's disparaging your taste if we don't know what your taste is.

>>96408142
>the rewards are bigger
You can get 5 points from a single combat now.
That's not even a gard thing to do, just have a sabdworm in a 2-point combat, take heighliner, and have the mstching combat card.
>>96408066
Combat was PART of DI's game. Not the ENTIRE game.

>>96408314
>You can get 5 points from a single combat now. That's not even a gard thing to do
except you also need
>water for worms
>shield wall destroyed
>8 spice or 12 solari
>5 spice for heighliner
>don't get blocked or out intrigued
let's be generous and say you deep desert for 10 strength, and heighliner for 14. I've seen non-worm players beat 24 combat strength before, so you better also have intrigue cards to win, or get to a third combat space. If you do manage all of the above and swing 5 points in a single combat, I'd say it's deserved

>>96406577
>>96406467
Check out Robomon

>>96400990
Heart of Crown? Sweet. Looking forward to getting second edition.

>>96408362
I would hardly call that "deserved" when worm players often spam worms all game, get double rewards from most fights which help them cover most of the costs you mentioned, and it doesn't require any particular strategising. You either get lucky and your opponents have shit intrigue cards/bad card draws for the final combat, or you don't.

Even with all that cope, you're ignoring that at base, anybody winning with a worm on the last round is getting 4 points off of that combat alone. Most of the game is spent inching towards victory 1 VP by 1 VP. Scoring 5 in a single round in this way is ludicrous, and almost always feels like an asspull victory. Out of 4 games I played, only one felt like the guy who won deserved it.

The mechanic is "cool", but I don't play games for the cool factor.

>>96408409
Doesn't the new expansions, blood something, fix this problem?

>>96408421
No idea. Only tried it once with Rise of Ix, and it didn't improve the game enough for me to want to continue playing it.

I find the whole approach they've taken to releasing two games with cross-playable expansions a very dubious practice which further indicates that the designs are an incoherent hodge podge of random shit designed to maximise sales. Call me abck when they release a definitive edition or something.

NEW THREAD
>>96408499
>>96408499
>>96408499
NEW THREAD

>>96408409
sounds like your table doesn't do shit to counterplay worms. block their spaces for spice gains and block their water access. don't let them win a lot of early combats (stage III combat wins can sometimes be worth only 2 or 3 points if they can't match card icons)
if you only played 4 games and you're coming from non-Uprising Imperium then it's understandable that you consider worms overly strong. it's a skill issue

>>96408503
Don't talk to me about skill in a worker placement game where the locations you can put your workers are defined by random card draws and the combat results are dominated by random card draws.