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Thread 96434606

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Anonymous No.96434606 >>96435022 >>96435034 >>96435049 >>96435055 >>96435076 >>96435121 >>96436029 >>96436096 >>96436184 >>96436235 >>96436662 >>96436699 >>96436988 >>96437083 >>96437193 >>96437443 >>96437444 >>96438006 >>96438089 >>96438305 >>96438462 >>96438465 >>96438796 >>96438824 >>96438835 >>96440099 >>96440236 >>96440305 >>96440316 >>96440439 >>96445556 >>96446096 >>96446102 >>96447052 >>96448801 >>96451188 >>96451469 >>96451494 >>96451598 >>96451863 >>96453591 >>96453827 >>96454857 >>96464570 >>96465666 >>96470570 >>96475360 >>96475424 >>96475444 >>96475495 >>96475695 >>96483373
What's the problem with having a combat wheelchair in your d&d games? It's fantasy, after all.
Anonymous No.96435022 >>96453699 >>96453705 >>96462998
>>96434606 (OP)
can I also have a pick-up truck and an AR-15?
Anonymous No.96435034 >>96456105 >>96472811
>>96434606 (OP)
Just pretend you have normal legs, it's fantasy after all
Anonymous No.96435049 >>96451238
>>96434606 (OP)
What's the problem with having zero crippled people in your d&d games? It's fantasy, after all.
Anonymous No.96435055 >>96435820 >>96451238 >>96456105 >>96464589
>>96434606 (OP)
If you can be anything you want to be why would choose to be crippled. It's, as you said, fantasy.
Anonymous No.96435063 >>96436041 >>96449882
Anonymous No.96435076
>>96434606 (OP)
My combat wheelchair is motorized and also has tank treads and also i dont have legs im fused to the tank tread wheelchair at the waist and also im a druid
Anonymous No.96435102
I remember when people used to put effort into their bait threads. Actually that's a lie, 90% of bait threads have always been low-effort. But my God man, you'll never catch any fish with so shoddy a tackle.
Anonymous No.96435121
>>96434606 (OP)
depends on if we use raw for spells
is the DM gonna be a fag ebout everything or wut
Anonymous No.96435158 >>96449818
I would be more okay with them if they didn't insist on using the contemporary wheelchair design that was invented in 1933.
At least use historical wheelchair designs to make them seem less clashing.
Anonymous No.96435820 >>96435886 >>96436682 >>96436770 >>96437083 >>96483148
>>96435055
In theory, the idea of playing a disabled character is fine, but there's a few glaring problems with how the idea has been pursued in D&D, specifically.
* D&D is a combat game. If you aren't, at minimum, operating at the expected combat efficacy the bounded accuracy calculations expect, you are a hindrance to the rest of the party and WotC has made zero considerations for what a less-than-optimal party can do about that
* Despite wanting disability to be acceptable and normalized in D&D's fantasy world, they have chosen the least cohesive way to do it: an extremely modern looking wheelchair made by high level artificers that is indestructible and loaded with special enchantments and game rules that mitigate all of the complications of being paraplegic, including being able to float up stairs
* Contrary to the claims of wanting representation, the advised procedures for handling wheelchairs and disabilities in games like D&D and now Daggerheart is... "Do Not Do Thatβ„’" - as in, do not play to the disability. Do not knock the cripple out of the wheelchair. Do not take away the chair. Do not damage the chair. Do not ever put the chair in any situation where it would be considered a hindrance or disadvantage. Treat the character as if they were 100% able bodied and allow the Wheelchair to exist as a sort of cosmetic item.

If a player told you their character wore an eyepatch, but that they were not going to take any penalties to perception or aiming or anything else. And also the Eyepatch gave them bonuses on a variety of skills. And also the eyepatch was indestructible and no one except his character can remove it. Also, as a free action, the eyepatch generates a forcefield and if he wants to he can upgrade it to shoot arrows. You'd tell that player to go fuck themselves.
Anonymous No.96435886 >>96435906 >>96435933 >>96436716
>>96435820
>If a player told you their character wore an eyepatch, but that they were not going to take any penalties to perception or aiming or anything else.
Absolutely nothing wrong with this.
Anonymous No.96435906 >>96435921
>>96435886
So they can totally see fine and it's only decorative instead of something used for a handicap?
Anonymous No.96435921 >>96435937 >>96449400 >>96451354 >>96461366
>>96435906
>it's only decorative
>an eyepatch
Yeah? You gonna make a blind wizard need a seeing eye dog in your game?
Anonymous No.96435933 >>96436130
>>96435886
And everything else?
Anonymous No.96435937
>>96435921
Yes.
Anonymous No.96436003
>>96435991
Fuck off
Anonymous No.96436029 >>96447660 >>96448795 >>96486092
>>96434606 (OP)
>What's the problem with having a combat wheelchair in your d&d games? It's fantasy, after all.
The problem isn't the wheel chair, it's the system.
Anonymous No.96436041 >>96436846 >>96438839
>>96435063
>implying the wheelchair wouldn't be able to fly
Anonymous No.96436096
>>96434606 (OP)
You will complain when the evil wizard doesn't make his dungeon wheelchair accessible, and you will be insufferable about it.
Anonymous No.96436130 >>96436148
>>96435933
Literally only the skill bonuses and actions it grants are an issue. Unless you're the type of massive faggot that's gonna tell the alchemist they incur a 0.1m movement penalty for every potion they carry, a one-eyed marksman isnt a problem in the slightest.
Anonymous No.96436148 >>96436284 >>96483156
>>96436130
That's stupid
Anonymous No.96436184
>>96434606 (OP)
Stairs, mostly. I doubt many ancient ruins or dragon's lairs are handicap accessible.
Anonymous No.96436235 >>96445366
>>96434606 (OP)

For once, an honest answer. I'm bored enough.

Aesthetically-wise, something akin to a combat wheelchair isn't absurd. I mean, having it be basically a 2025 wheelchair is as bad as the ranger having a hydration pack from a 21-century army, but I can imagine something more fantasy (I dunno, a flying carpet, a golem thing that makes you have a silver runed exoskeleton) working without much problems. Maybe could need some rulings to personalize it, possibly not for every class/character, but whatever.

The problem is tonal. This is why people can't suffer the idea, not (really) muh SJWs ruining the hobby.

DND is a power fantasy game. You are supposed to be a competent and badass adventurer, even starting out. This, quite honestly, means more badass than you are IRL: nerd, normal person or even gymbro*. Not Exalted-level of awesomessness, possibly not even Conan for the first levels, but yeah, pretty badass and ready to have a life of killing monsters in dungeons. Notice that this badassitude is still fantasy badassitude.
Now, while you can (at least in theory) be, I don't fucking now, a warrior without an eye -more or less traditionally cool- or a crippled wizard on the aforementioned magical carpet -less traditionally badass and more similar to an IRL "common" disability. I guess-... why would you use something that signifies IRL constraints? THIS runs contrary to game assumptions, especially tonal assumptions.
It's like having factory-made pills instead of magical healing. Why would you do that?

*=yeah yeah, your warlock is probably less fit than an IRL athlete, but he IS badass enough in the narrative to get his feet wet with orcs' blood. Roleplay him as being fat and tired, but yeah, he is cooler that way than the people at the table.
Anonymous No.96436284 >>96436338 >>96438203
>>96436148
>That's stupid
Well I happen to think one-eyed snipers are pretty fucking cool, akshually.
Anonymous No.96436338 >>96436346 >>96438203
>>96436284
I think it's cooler when the one-eyed sniper is able to make their shots even with the handicap.
Anonymous No.96436346 >>96436348
>>96436338
Ok. Ill put one hand over my eye while we play.
Anonymous No.96436348
>>96436346
Good
Anonymous No.96436662
>>96434606 (OP)
The actually most retarded thing in RPGs, ever.
I remember wanting to play a centaur as a one-off once, a long time ago, and my DM was simply, "No, it doesn't fit inside dungeons."
Anonymous No.96436682
>>96435820
>If a player told you their character wore an eyepatch, but that they were not going to take any penalties to perception or aiming or anything else
Anonymous No.96436699
>>96434606 (OP)
>op pic
disingenious question if you cant find the obvious answer from your provided image file.
Anonymous No.96436716 >>96436800 >>96483170
>>96435886
>Absolutely nothing wrong with this.
Wrong. If you're missing an eye, you take penalties. Simple as.
Anonymous No.96436770 >>96461951
>>96435820
Pretty much.

I've had characters play disabled characters before and it was fun because they did it as part of an actual character concept rather than just some obnoxious need for representation. As part of that they made sure the representation of the disability was appropriate to the tone of the game (no ridiculous modern wheelchair out of nowhere) and were happy to face challenges as a result of the disability.
Anonymous No.96436800 >>96436807
>>96436716
Do you lose 1 charisma if you're missing a testicle too?
Anonymous No.96436807
>>96436800
You'd also take strength and constitution hits due to lack of testosterone.
Anonymous No.96436846
>>96436041
that's more the problem though. Not only is the combat wheel chair in the game at all it's hilariously overpowered.
Anonymous No.96436988 >>96452659
>>96434606 (OP)
Wheelchair lad here.
It is blatant pandering and outright fetishization for a crippling disability.
When I go to game I don’t want to be reminded that I’ll never be able to walk. I want to escape that shit even if for an hour.
Some people may not see it that way but I do and I hate it because I don’t want to be reminded that I’ll never be able to take a single step in my life.
Anonymous No.96437083 >>96437091 >>96462674 >>96483179
>>96434606 (OP)
1: The original was an overpowered ridiculously unbalanced power fantasy/lash out by someone who wasn't even disabled long-term, and lashed out at people who criticized it from an objective standpoint. This has rightfully made it suffer a bad reputation.

2: Why is a wheelchair okay, but characters who are disabled in other ways are not? Why is a mute character not acceptable? Why is a one-armed character not acceptable? Why is a deaf or blind character not acceptable? What about someone who is schizophrenic or delusional? Or albinistic, or even with allergies? There are overwhelmingly more examples of one-armed, blind, psychotic, or mute badasses in both real life and fiction.

3: Why should I be expected to depict violence against the disabled in my game? If your character is not disabled that's a problem on its own since pretending to be disabled is a really shitty thing to do.

4: Why do I have to include them? This is a world of dragons and magic, is the idea that there are no physically disabled people (especially in games that literally have no maiming or amputation rules other than vorpal sword decapitation) really THAT far-fetched?

5: It's performative inclusion, the worst kind of inclusion, where are the large print character sheets? Where are the large-print dice? Why are the books not formatted in clear and consistent ways with important game terms being bolded?

6: >>96435820 Why is it given special protections? Why should YOUR character have special unjustified rules JUST for them? You might as well ban violence against women and minorities if we're going that route.

7: Disability is not a superpower, calling a disability a superpower is one of the most offensive things you can say to disabled people, and downplays their difficulties in daily life

And 8: Why is it touted as some kind of new and innovative thing when MULTIPLE systems have had similar things in them for DECADES? It's the D&D version of Disney's "First LGBT whateverthefuck"
Anonymous No.96437091 >>96437422
>>96437083
It's not even official D&D shit, it's someone's retarded homebrew that social media ran away with as some sort of super inclusive thing when it's not
Anonymous No.96437193
>>96434606 (OP)
Because in a setting where magic can restore any injury, raise the dead, and commune with actual fucking gods, physically able the social justice warriors shoehorned a reminder of disabled people's physical limitations in their escapist fantasy.

Like for real, thousands of players with actual physical disabilities hate this shit with such a fiery passion, but bleeding heart sjws pushed it because they know what's best.

Personally, as a paraplegic, if I ever meet one of these fucks I will strangle them.
Anonymous No.96437422
>>96437091
The mechanics aren't, but it's in the official art.
Anonymous No.96437443
>>96434606 (OP)
Because it's the most boring, least-fantastical way of playing a character whose legs don't work. The result of people who can't think of anything except modern day solutions.
Anonymous No.96437444
>>96434606 (OP)
Are the chairs still overpowered to the point where you're nerfing yourself if you're not in one?
Anonymous No.96437497 >>96448310 >>96459600
>What's the deal with combat wheelchairs?
>I had a player wanted his character to be in a wheelchair, one made for fighting.
>I said to him, "What kinda game you think this is you can fight in a wheelchair?"
>He looks straight at me and says, "It's a ROLL playing game!"
Anonymous No.96437514 >>96438095 >>96483192
It's been 5 fucking years since this piece of shit homebrew came out

move
on
Anonymous No.96438006 >>96438172
>>96434606 (OP)
For HIGH fantasy/steampunk games where everyone and their cat has access to godlike magics and tech, sure, no problem. In LOW fantasy medieval settings though, pic below is more appropiate, if you want to avoid being accused of being a witch and you and your infernal wheelchair burnt by the inquisition.
Anonymous No.96438034
Hmm, so an indestructable weaponized wheelchair that can fly and is available to everyone? Are you a Dr Who fan?
Anonymous No.96438089
>>96434606 (OP)
>he fantasizes about being a wheelchair
Someone introduce this anon's kneecaps to a shotgun.
Anonymous No.96438095
>>96437514
The people who needed it in haven't moved on from ruining printed media and discourse around the hobby.
Anonymous No.96438172
>>96438006
>the party is a witches coven in a low magic setting
>they are part of the few people with healing spells but are persecuted by the local religion
>since the party doesn't have any high STR or CON members they have to sneak around at night or blend in during the day to try to help patients
>if they get lucky one can infiltrate a church as a novice sister and work their way up to give other players a heads up when inquisitors will appear
Anonymous No.96438203
>>96436284
>>96436338
The most badass snipers would poke out their weaker eye by themselves to improve their aim
Anonymous No.96438305
>>96434606 (OP)
Make it cool and then we'll talk. The default wheelchair brought up in these discussions is boring dogshit and I won't have that at my table.
Anonymous No.96438462 >>96448310
>>96434606 (OP)
Reminder that conjuring magic force limbs or building cyberpunk-tier construct limbs are both infinitely cooler than these gay wheely shits
Anonymous No.96438465
>>96434606 (OP)
I don't play D&D and the system my table uses balances magic items. If your character turns into a cripple, you can make a new one. If you ask nicely the GM might introduce it as an NPC when he needs a beggar, though.
Anonymous No.96438617
Anonymous. No.96438796 >>96440919 >>96460312 >>96475491
>>96434606 (OP)
On top of everything else said ITT, the combat wheelchair, going by 'official' stats, is also poorly designed and overpowered as shit.

>You would expect a wheelchair to inform on a character's capacities, nature and activities.
Except the combat wheelchair doesn't restrict the user in any way, shape or form.
Do you need to sacrifice your hands to push the rims? Nope, because it's powered by your mind, and magic.
Do you struggle with obstacles like rocks, fallen masonry or fucking stairs? No, because the chair has built-in levitation magic, so you can also fly. And if needed, it can become a raft.
Struggle to keep up with others? No, you can keep a 30ft movement speed with your mind, and actually bump it up to 60ft if you're going on any kind of downhill because wheels. Who decides how fast you go? You do of course.
Maybe you're vulnerable to being grappled or knocked over? Acktually the fifth wheel in your wheelchair makes you super stable.
Maybe it makes you easier to hit? Nope, +2AC and resistance to certain damage types. Or, you can give yourself permanent half or 3/4 cover.
Or maybe you can't swing a sword as hard, being paralysed? Nah, you get extra damage, and the ability to knock up to 4 people prone. Also, by rolling up to someone and skidding into them, your wheel can do the same damage as a longsword. If you down them and roll over them in your movement, you do the same damage as a warhammer. And also, your attacks can impose disadvantage. Compare all that to a solid punch from your average, non-paralyzed fighting man.
Makes you less subtle, perhaps, given all of the above? Actually, it can give you advantage on dex saves, acrobatics checks and stealth checks.

All that for 200 gold, plus some 15 gold upgrades around the place.
Anonymous No.96438824
>>96434606 (OP)
I like my fantasy games to not also be retarded and stupid.
Anonymous No.96438834 >>96462720
The cult leader cackles madly as her foul magic gives new strength to your legs, and to your horror, you begin to move them again. "Now you will have to walk like the rest of us. Your identity is no more."
Anonymous No.96438835 >>96438860
>>96434606 (OP)
Specifically, it's a fantasy where magic capable of fixing such disabilities is available in every town with a population larger than about ten thousand people.
The only valid excuse for a combat wheelchair in an adventuring party is that the occupant is literally adventuring specifically for the purpose of gathering the gold to buy a casting of the spell which would restore the use of their legs.
And even that has a HUGE glaring problem: how would such a character convince their adventuring party to carry them through a dungeon? Dead weight like that is dangerous. Being a literal burden on your adventuring party means you get a smaller share of the loot... if any at all. Disabled characters are NPCs left at home. They are the sibling you're fighting for. Not fighting alongside.

And for the disabled who believe their wheelchair is such a foundational premise of their self-identity... That's dangerous bullshit and delusion. You are not your disability, and your emotional coping mechanism is not making you less disabled. It doesn't matter how happy you are, you still can't fucking walk. You will never play water polo. And you will never be in the NBA even if you learn to bounce a ball around. You're not gonna play soccer. No. Stop it.

For the GMs who allow this toxic shit? You suck. You fucking suck and you're abusing your player(s). You're also failing your players if your game is so trivial and full of bullshit that adventurers can be disabled. That's not a game. That's kindergarten story time.
Anonymous No.96438839 >>96459527
>>96436041
... why does a flying wheelchair have... wheels...?
Anonymous No.96438860 >>96438887 >>96440174 >>96448939 >>96475546
>>96438835
>You are not your disability
Wrong.
The wheelchair must be attached to you, always, at all times, even when you wildshape, you'll never be free of it, it doesn't transform because it's not your body: the wheelchair is your soul.
This is the moral lesson that you'll never walk again, even in a setting where moderately powerful magic would let you, instantly and with no downsides.
This why roleplaying games were created.
Anonymous No.96438887 >>96440074
>>96438860
>picrel
Like I said earlier, remove the legs and replace wood wheels with tank treads and this instantly goes from unfathomably gay to unfathomably based.
Anonymous No.96440074
>>96438887
mecha t-rex tank
Anonymous No.96440099
>>96434606 (OP)
The problem is that it's not done to be cool, it's done to be a fucking asshole by introducing a meaningless wedge issue where there doesn't need to be one.
Anonymous No.96440174 >>96462732
>>96438860
this is the most idiotic appeal to woke i've seen, and absolutely insulting to real disabled people. these people think someone like Ricky Berwick wouldn't instantly choose to change from a misshapen goblinoid to a normal human just because he's making the most of it in his current form. people don't want to be in a wheelchair, or enjoy rolling in one, its just a better alternative to dragging themselves around.
Anonymous No.96440236 >>96440342
>>96434606 (OP)
the green areas are everything the stubborn, wheelchair-bound tiefling rogue who won't pay for healing can access. it is unclear how he got onto the ship in the first place.
Anonymous No.96440305 >>96483232
>>96434606 (OP)
Nothing. There is no badwrongfun. Fuck off with your bait. Go play any game you want to.
Anonymous No.96440316
>>96434606 (OP)
Anonymous No.96440342
>>96440236
It's more impressive he's not sliding around on the deck and falling out of said chair, frankly, with how that ship is tilting
Anonymous No.96440439
>>96434606 (OP)
Nothing, Its just the kind of person who would insist upon it.
Anonymous No.96440919 >>96445913
>>96438796
>All that for 200 gold, plus some 15 gold upgrades around the place.
That's actually the most insulting thing about it. By their own rules, a character can just declare they have one "as part of their backstory" at no cost, whatsoever. Humorously, this also means that if someone is playing with the combat wheelchair splat, RAW, every player can just declare they have one "as part of their backstory" even if they aren't crippled.
Anonymous No.96444072 >>96445013 >>96445169 >>96456233 >>96483234
Why does tg go for the same boring bait thread over and over again? Is this board just this low iq?
Anonymous No.96445013
>>96444072
Because it's fun to point out the retarded shit that the biggest game manufacturers churn out and expect to appeal to their customers? It's the forum equivelent of a normal human jousting with dragons.
Anonymous No.96445169
>>96444072
Because there's nothing else to do on this board in its current state
Anonymous No.96445366 >>96448095 >>96449045
>>96436235
I just find the whole thing galling. I've played with people with a few different disabilities. These were good games. Good players. But never once did they ever even consider playing someone with their own disability. They wanted to be warriors. thieves rogues etc. Because in their mind and their imagination they're not cripples. The whole point of the game is to be more than what we are. This isn't being more inclusive, this is saying to someone that they must always be defined by their handicap. When my friend Steve came to play he was a half elf archer and in those moments he could forget his physical limitations because they didn't matter anymore. If you honestly give this any thought at all it's obvious how insulting it is. How egotistical it is. How it exists purely for the benefit of the person who included it to let them think they made a difference to let them stroke their own sense of self superiority. Can you honestly imagine, explaining the game to some child for the first time, explaining how the world is limited only by his own imagination, how he can be anything he wants to be, and as you watch his eyes light up and his imagination begin to race, you look down to him and say "Oh yes and also there's a wheel chair so you can play too." Disgusting. They should be ASHAMED.
Anonymous No.96445556 >>96446004
>>96434606 (OP)
What's the problem with having a knight driving a ford mustang in your d&d games ? It's fantasy after all.
Anonymous No.96445913
>>96440919
Just strap armor onto it and make it into a steampunk tankette
Anonymous No.96445942
There's a difference between playing a crippled character and fetishizing disabilities. Combat wheelchairs unironically fall in the same category as furries, vore and stuff like that, they are just a bit more sneaky about it. It's a disability-without-drawbacks just for the sake of fulfilling someones fetish.
Anonymous No.96446004 >>96448971
>>96445556
>What's the problem with having a knight driving a ford mustang
Nothing. Go play a game.
Anonymous No.96446096
>>96434606 (OP)
Just zoom and boom. That's what combat wheelchairs are for.
Anonymous No.96446102
>>96434606 (OP)
If I found a lamp with a genie in it, I would wish for you to die horribly three times over.
Anonymous No.96447052 >>96447102
>>96434606 (OP)
Serious question, does anybody outside of shitposters on /tg/ even remember that the combat wheelchair exists at this point?
Anonymous No.96447102
>>96447052
Not even shitposters on /tg/ get it right. They're not even published D&D material--just homebrew. Complaining about them is like complaining that "Weresnails" were a thing for WtA in the 90s, because a mildly prominent forum for it had rules posted for them.
Anonymous No.96447660
>>96436029
Generic systems tend to be much better at representation.
Anonymous No.96448095 >>96448111 >>96450076 >>96470580 >>96483259 >>96483285
>>96445366
I was watching something about the Yakuza games and the guy put his entire video essay script on hold for a portion of the video to talk about how the lead writer has "problematic tendencies" towards disabled people. Namely that the villain of 7 is a guy who cured his unnamed condition that put him in a wheelchair since childhood with experimental drugs, and also that a kid in the pirate game wanted to cure his asthma. This became a side tangent about the pernicious habit of writers to make disabled characters that want to be "cured" with emphasis and implication that we, the audience listening to him, should understand that disabilities aren't things to be cured and fixed and that it's ableist to believe that disabled people want to be able to see and walk and live without chronic pain and severe hindrance to their ability to do things.

While that is all obviously fucking retarded, it was a little eye-opening when it comes to the blatant disability fetishism we see displayed by the diversity and representation crowd. They have somehow twisted themselves into such complex ideological pretzels that they have begun to believe that disabilities are not disabilities. They want everyone to think of "wheelchair" as if it were a race or gender. Like it's an identity on the same level as any other innate biological quality a person can have, and thus does not need to be changed, fixed, or cured. Blind people don't need to see. Deaf people don't need to hear. Paraplegics don't need to walk.

You're supposed to think they are perfect the way they are, and also that they are just as equal and capable and not at all hindered by their obvious inability to do many things that able-bodied people do naturally. And then, once you accept that insanity, you are supposed to think that it's just natural for heroes in a fantasy adventure game to be wheelchair-bound.
Anonymous No.96448111 >>96448125 >>96450076 >>96470591 >>96483274
>>96448095
No I don't think anything that you just said is true.

People with disabilities criticize media for representing disabilities as something to be cured, rather than dealing with what living with disabilities looks like. Not "because it's ablist to want to be cured."

I think you made up the parts you didn't understand.
Anonymous No.96448125 >>96448146
>>96448111
The person dictating these beliefs was not disabled, if that clears things up. But he was doing the typical
>ermmm yikes? that's kinda heccin problematic that your villain didn't want to live in a wheelchair all his life
Kind of sanctimonious pearl-clutching that the activist and ally crowd loves to do on behalf of a group they aren't part of for virtue signaling points.
Anonymous No.96448146 >>96448162 >>96470591
>>96448125
The point of the ablist "criticism" is that it's shitty to use disabilties to earn empathy from viewers/readers if, instead of honestly portraying what having disabilities looks like, you take the empathy and then handwave it away, later.

So no: I don't for a moment believe your misunderstanding.
Anonymous No.96448162 >>96448166
>>96448146
Who said anything about empathy? Did you actually read the post? Because it was very much not about portraying disabilities realistically and that wasn't even a point that was brought up.
Anonymous No.96448166 >>96448181 >>96452751
>>96448162
I read it, and you misunderstood whatever you watched.
Anonymous No.96448181 >>96448222
>>96448166
Do you even know what I watched?
Anonymous No.96448222 >>96448258
>>96448181
Nope! But I know what you said and it's clear you misunderstood it. Incidentally, if you'd like to find out why the overwhelming majority of advocates for the disabled aren't? Take care of someone you love who is.
Anonymous No.96448258
>>96448222
So you're literally making up an argument on behalf of something you don't know about to make a point about disability advocacy. Do you think you're being witty or are you just bored and desperate for attention?
Anonymous No.96448310
>>96437497
>>He looks straight at me and says, "It's a ROLL playing game!"
Damn it Carlos, I chuckled...

>>96438462
>Reminder that conjuring magic force limbs or building cyberpunk-tier construct limbs are both infinitely cooler than these gay wheely shits
You could at least make an Animated walking chair!
Anonymous No.96448795 >>96458562
>>96436029
>rules support since 1986
GURPS really does have everything.
Anonymous No.96448801
>>96434606 (OP)
My character is a vegetable and no one complains. Last session he won a participation award at the local lord's fancy ball, and a nice lady praised his pirouetting.
Anonymous No.96448939 >>96479839 >>96483252
>>96438860
Whenever I see the image of the disabled wolf I'm taken back to every druid ever who at one point will have said "I'll transform in to a dog/cat so I can wander through town without suspicion" and how that idea is instantly crushed by still being the dog-cripple on wheels from Babe 2, or Herbert's dog from Family Guy.

What if you transform in to something with no legs, do you get any wheels? Many legs = many wheels? If you're two legged do you still get a chair, like a t-rex in a wheelchair? Or if you're an octopus, does it transform in to something water apprioriate, but more wheels? What about a giant spider? I mean, they don't have spines right, so how can the spinal cord be severed in that case meaning you need a wheelchair?
Anonymous No.96448971 >>96449227
>>96446004
This is not a ford mustang. Pic related is. If wheelchairfags don't want this in their game, they're hypocrites.
Anonymous No.96449045 >>96449956
>>96445366

I dunno man. It's thinkable, I guess, but I get your point.

But I mean, I'm clinically depressed and wouldn't do a character like that in DND (or, fuck, in Broken Compass for that matter). If you want to, tough, maybe consider a tiny bit of tone in the game? One thing is a character doing the usual lone wolf drowing his sorrows in alchool*, another would be your thief getting industrial pills fto be functional.

*=which is actually a terrible stereotype, but I mean, Elric doing drugs is or at least was a thing, so tonally would more or less make sense
Anonymous No.96449227
>>96448971
Anon what the fuck are you talking about? That's clearly a road in the Mojave Desert.
Anonymous No.96449400
>>96435921
Yes, absolutely.
Anonymous No.96449818
>>96435158
That looks very comfortable honestly
Anonymous No.96449882 >>96483298
>>96435063
lol at this pic, imagine not picking a race that can fly and just dominated the DM's stupid obstacles.
Anonymous No.96449956
>>96449045
Sozzled gruff guy slowly warming to the party before one day the inebriation causes him to make a tragic mistake that costs them greatly and swearing off the stuff so that he'll never screw them ever again is a really cool trope.
Anonymous No.96450076 >>96451079 >>96451439
>>96448095
>>96448111
It's a fantasy game. All they're trying to say is that they support people who want to make-believe that a wheelchair is not an inconvenience for two or three hours a week. It's a dumb, tone-deaf way management has decided to make line go up by appealing to a previously untapped group of customers.
Anonymous No.96451079 >>96451110
>>96450076
As many have argued many times ever since this stupid wheelchair shit was foisted on to D&D, is the is hyperfocus on the chair itself that leaves many scratching their heads. There's often little to be said about paraplegia as a condition, how it effects the body, but so much to say about *THE WHEELCHAIR* almost like the person in it is secondary to the importance of the chair itself. The chair as a mythical, unbreakable, magical, floating, telekinetically linked super item.

In other words, they care more about wheelchairs than they care about disabled people. Wanting the wheelchair to be something other than a modern-style wheelchair is unacceptable, because it's not about the magical fantasy of "What if being crippled didn't stop you from going on magical adventures" but rather, they have presented it as "what if you had a magical wheelchair so you could still be wheelchair bound, but also go on an adventure with a magical wheelchair" which is not an especially empowering fantasy for anyone buy wheelchair manufacturers.
Anonymous No.96451110 >>96451135
>>96451079
Well now I'm imagining an Evil Magical Wheelchair that possesses whoever sits on it!
Anonymous No.96451135 >>96451181
>>96451110
You kill the wheelchair-bound Lich only to realize he was being puppeteered by the real source of evil: The Wheelchair
Anonymous No.96451181
>>96451135
Get the Lillend...
Anonymous No.96451188
>>96434606 (OP)
Nothing a few neural contact points to your spine can't help with.
Anonymous No.96451238 >>96451409 >>96451470 >>96451843 >>96458214 >>96483130
>>96435055
>>96435049
It can lead to some very interesting characters. The one-armed sword fighter is a fantastic trope for instance.

I do agree that I would prefer a character without use of their legs be permanently mounted on a horse or with some kind of megitech spider legs strapped to them rather than in a wheelchair. Nothing to do with "historical accuracy" but just because it does break the aesthetic a bit for me.
But like who cares? Of course people with mobility issues are more likely to play tabletop RPGs and why hold it against them for wanting to do self-insert characters. It's pretty natural and no more cringe than someone playing a bard rolling to seduce the barmaid or whatever
Anonymous No.96451354
>>96435921
If the blind wizard isn't just using a familiar as eyes replacement untill they can afford greater restoration they're already proving to be too retarded to be a wizard in the first place
Anonymous No.96451409
>>96451238
I don't think anyone truly minds characters with disabilities, but the idea is typically that you play to the disability. The one-armed swordsman can't take actions that require two hands. The blind wizard can't describe things he sees without using some magic to see for him. Etc.

If you take away all of the hurdles the disability presents, you are turning it into a cosmetic accessory, and in the case of the combat wheelchair, not only erasing the disability, but turning it into a complex set of setting-disrupting magical bonuses for playing a crippled character.
Anonymous No.96451439 >>96451830 >>96452792
>>96450076
Nobody wants to pretend to be a wheel chair guy. You could be playing an actual fucking X-men game and still it won't be two sessions before your Professor X is up and walking around with a Shi'ar exoskeleton or some shit. Like you said it's a fantasy and you'd be very hard pressed to find someone with a cripple fantasy.
Anonymous No.96451469
>>96434606 (OP)
certain people use it as an excuse to give their character superpowers that makes the drawback of having a disability negligible and it ends up just being an accessory.
Anonymous No.96451470
>>96451238
That's kind of the thing, most people with disabilities don't self-insert. And when they do, they usually do it without any particular frills or special advantages to negate their disability. Stuff like the magical wheelchair is kind of an insult to them since its existence is condescending, like they can't get around or adventure unless they're basically handheld through their adventure. They know how much of a pain in the ass it is to go through life with their disability. They don't need the GM to intentionally harass them for it, like throwing obstacles specifically designed against their character's limitations, but they don't need to be coddled either. Most parties that play with characters that have disabilities will prefer to either have some degree of teamwork like a teammate carrying their paralyzed companion through difficult terrain or EARN some degree of control over their situation such as building a set of prosthetic legs or magitek chair with their own gold and knowledge. Rarely are they going to be happy to be just GIVEN this kind of obstacle-defying device and told that it's in their best interests for "fairness", in other words "because they're too helpless and weak otherwise".
Anonymous No.96451494 >>96451599
>>96434606 (OP)
The obvious reasons aside, it's offensive to the imagination. Youre in a fantasy setting and that's the best you can come up with?
Anonymous No.96451598
>>96434606 (OP)
What kind of retarded asshole wants to fantasize about being a cripple?

I mean cripples sure as fuck don’t. It’s like fantasizing about being a fucked up tranny monster or a black. lol. It’s just silly.
Anonymous No.96451599 >>96451745
>>96451494
Wouldn't be too much of a stretch to conclude that the disruptive and jarring nature of the whole thing was the entire point and that the entire thing was done in bad faith on purpose.
Anonymous No.96451745
>>96451599
I can easily see modern creators trying to wage a war on actually thinking
Anonymous No.96451830
>>96451439
Anonymous No.96451843
>>96451238
>But like who cares?
People who don't want the aesthetics to be broken just so somebody can have a wheelchair specifically rather than the myriad of much more interesting options.

>why hold it against them
I'd hold it against them in the same way I'd hold it against an engineer who gets pissy when he's told that his character can't simply roll to invent nukes so they can blow up the dragon from outside the dungeon.
A self-insert still needs to be adapted to fit within the setting. The thing being held against them is their inability to adapt or show an ounce of creativity.
Anonymous No.96451863
>>96434606 (OP)
I would assume that anyone who is pitching a character like this has a fetish and would veto it for sexual reasons. I simply don't believe that anyone would choose to play a character like this without it being arousing to them.
Anonymous No.96452659
>>96436988
Dang dude I hate that. Maybe you dont feel this way, but I think the people that stick this into the game do it for themselves, even if they arent disabled. I think they use it to feel better about themselves.
Anonymous No.96452751
>>96448166
It seems like you misunderstood what he was talking about. Is there a way you'd like me to break it down so you could understand it a bit better?
Anonymous No.96452792
>>96451439
>playing a crippled character to satisfy cripple fantasy
Thats pretty insensitive, especially for the tolerance crowd. I dont think you can justify that
Anonymous No.96452844 >>96452892
>Why didn't they cure their debilitating injury with the magic healing available at any corner store?
The world's most boring fantasy setting because everybody is a wizard that has the powers of Star Trek The Next Generation
Anonymous No.96452847
i understand that for some people the combat rocket wheelchairs are their escapism of choice but i personally am just not interested in disabled characters in genre fiction who surpass their disability totally with magic handwaves
give me a wizard has a kickass magic staff that rips people in half but also genuinely needs it to walk over any number of flawless magic prosthetics any day of the week
Anonymous No.96452892 >>96452979
>>96452844
The point isn't that people should cure their disability with magic the point is that nobody should feel obligated to play a cripple in the first place.
Anonymous No.96452979 >>96453165
>>96452892
nobody particularly does. the wheelchair is literally just a random piece of homebrew, nobody is obligating anyone to use it, nevermind play a cripple.
Anonymous No.96453165 >>96453172
>>96452979
It was thought up and introduced exactly because they expected people to use it. Just because nobody will doesn't mean it's not fucking retarded and it doesn't mean we shouldn't call bullshit where we see it.
Anonymous No.96453172 >>96453506
>>96453165
yeah they expected people to use it. just like people who make fan classes or feats or monsters or whatever. it's literally just some shit some rando made as wish fulfillment. who gives a fuck if this guy wants to give his character a magic rocket wheelchair, literally no different from someone making a.busted magic sword for their module and i don't see endless seethe about that.
Anonymous No.96453506 >>96453520
>>96453172
Because retarded or not a magic sword does fit the setting. The wheelchair retardation changes the whole aesthetic.
Anonymous No.96453520 >>96453829 >>96459458
>>96453506
>The wheelchair retardation changes the whole aesthetic.
Does it really? The D&D easthetic never took itself all that seriously.
Anonymous No.96453591
>>96434606 (OP)
You can have a combat wheel chair all you want.
You are an absolutely deranged fucknugget if you expect anyone to make a single thing wheelchair accessible.
Anonymous No.96453699
>>96435022
Sure
Anonymous No.96453705
>>96435022
That is your right given by God
Anonymous No.96453827
>>96434606 (OP)
>What's the problem with having a combat wheelchair in your d&d games? It's fantasy, after all.
in fact, it is not.
The fantasy would be to be able to cure people who can't walk, which is what most fantasies did until a couple of years ago.
Anonymous No.96453829
>>96453520
false
Anonymous No.96454857
>>96434606 (OP)
>It's fantasy, after all.
That's why magic can fix the disability so that wheelchairs are not necessary and the person can walk.
It is fantasy, after all.
Anonymous No.96456105
>>96435034
>>96435055
These.
Unless you are playing professor X or something similar you should just be a non-handicapped character with working legs. If you are playing X or similar than the reason you are doing so is because being handicapped by being in a wheelchair is an important part of your character, and thus having a combat wheelchair that literally makes an able-bodied person more effective in it than they'd be without it undercuts how that disability and the way it impacts you is a part of your character.
The only reason anyone would want a combat wheelchair isn't for roleplaying or storytelling purposes, but for validation of their real-world political ideas. And no matter what your politics, it belongs in ineffectual mudslinging matches on reddit, not at the gaming table.
Anonymous No.96456233
>>96444072
>Is this board just this low iq?
Do you need to ask?
Anonymous No.96457721
Here's the god for your wheelchair paladins and clerics
Anonymous No.96457744 >>96486293
Without wheelchairs in fantasy I wouldn't have Lily
And that's not a world I want to live in
Anonymous No.96458214 >>96458270
>>96451238
the problem's always been that it's in D&D, which is the worst system for trying to make any disability a mechanic in, and that the wheelchair is overly mundane instead of being, say, a magically-animated chair that can walk with its chair legs.
Anonymous No.96458270
>>96458214
If the chair was just mundane, fewer people would care. It's the fact that it's an indestructible magical item for free which has a lot of buffs and bonuses, and then they had to go and try to fashion it up with all this twee art of different classes in stylized wheelchairs that are fit to their classes, like a Paladin in a heavy-armor wheelchair, or a thief in a light sneaky wheelchair with blades on the wheels or a fucking druid with a wheelchair made of sticks and branches that shapeshifts into a crippled wolf with fucking logs for wheels.

Elderly Wizard in a wheelchair? Yeah whatever. Makes sense. There's some concepts where a crippled adventurer kinda works. It's all this twee bullshit where it's supposed to be a cool, personalized accessory that goes with any kind of adventuring lifestyle that is just too fucking absurd to accept
Anonymous No.96458562
>>96448795
>GURPS really does have everything.
Hell yeah. Being a thrown weapon specialist with one arm and no legs is a classic.
Anonymous No.96459458 >>96462865
>>96453520
wtf do the wheels even do on this thing?
Anonymous No.96459527
>>96438839
It just does, chud. Check your privilege.
Anonymous No.96459600
>>96437497
I'd let that player have the chair. He earned it.
Anonymous No.96460312 >>96485497
>>96438796
Is there any reason not to use a combat wheelchair, even if you're not a cripple? It just seems like it's so good that you'd be stupid not to.
Anonymous No.96461366 >>96461858
>>96435921
Anonymous No.96461858 >>96483355
>>96461366
modern society can't collapse in on itself fast enough
Anonymous No.96461951
>>96436770
And conversely, I've been in multiple games with actual disabled people and none of them ever expressed the slightest interest in playing as a cripple.
Anonymous No.96462674
>>96437083
>where are the large print character sheets? Where are the large-print dice? Why are the books not formatted in clear and consistent ways with important game terms being bolded?
Genuinely these would be nice, balanced but large dice and actually well formatted rule books instead of shit pretending at being some old text
Anonymous No.96462720 >>96470617
>>96438834
No more shall man have wheels to roll him to paradise. Henceforth, he shall walk!
Anonymous No.96462732
>>96440174
Are you really bitching about having more choices on how to play the game? Or did you just want to be offended like a little bitch?
Anonymous No.96462865
>>96459458
If my memory doesn't fail me, they put sleds on his chair as they travelled on the snowy region around Cori Celesti to blow up the gods.
Anonymous No.96462998 >>96485717
>>96435022
Of course. Every honest wood elf owns a Tuor Hilux and an AnΓ‘rionlite.
Anonymous No.96464570
>>96434606 (OP)
2023 called
They want their non-issue bait material back
Anonymous No.96464589
>>96435055
>why
3 extra stat points during character creation and additional challenge when making the build work
No idea how it works in modern DnD, but that's a bargain in my system of choice
Anonymous No.96465666
>>96434606 (OP)
The impracticality really bothers me. It destroys suspension of disbelief.
Most importantly, how do you get any kind of leverage for swordplay?
Anonymous No.96470570
>>96434606 (OP)
The problem is that it's GAY, UNCOOL, and PERFORMATIVE. You can get away with GAY or PERFORMATIVE so long as you're COOL, but you can never get away with all three
Anonymous No.96470580
>>96448095
>They want everyone to think of "wheelchair" as if it were a race or gender. Like it's an identity on the same level as any other innate biological quality a person can have, and thus does not need to be changed, fixed, or cured. Blind people don't need to see. Deaf people don't need to hear. Paraplegics don't need to walk.
Redpill: the representation crowd sees disabilities the same way they see obesity, and they treat it the same way. With "acceptance".
Anonymous No.96470591
>>96448111
>>96448146
>you MUST portray disabilities as realistically and empathetically as possible
>in my silly japanese man beat-up games
Anonymous No.96470617
>>96462720
Kek i thought the same thing
Anonymous No.96471030 >>96483389
Some disabled people might want to be cured
Some might want to be accepted
It's almost as if they are all individuals with their own thoughts and beliefs
The only one you should really hate is the deaf community
Anonymous No.96472811
>>96435034
Spbp
Anonymous No.96475360
>>96434606 (OP)
Jarlaxle hung out with a wheelchair bound tiefling?
Anonymous No.96475424
>>96434606 (OP)
>ummm, they're also collapsible
Anonymous No.96475444
>>96434606 (OP)
How do they get across tightropes?
Anonymous No.96475491
>>96438796
They should just add a cripple subclass to each class, with a list of powers that will be unlocked along the way. But for balance, non-cripples get powers that cripples don't have access to
Anonymous No.96475495
>>96434606 (OP)
Seems like a combat prosthetic arm. Very cool but not really a level 1 item.
Anonymous No.96475546
>>96438860
>It can withstand 3 consecutive critical hits
There is a 0.000625% chance of getting 4 crits in a row, so what's the point of even including that. For all intents and purposes, they're indestructible. Nobody is going to ignore the cripple to target the chair
Anonymous No.96475695
>>96434606 (OP)
Anonymous No.96479839 >>96480638
>>96448939
Presumably everyone in this world is disabled in some way and no townsperson would be bigoted enough to give any unnecessary attention to an unknown animal on wheels wandering through their small town where everybody knows each other.
Anonymous No.96480638
>>96479839
>the world is full of toxic-waste mutants who just want to get along
Anonymous No.96483114
When disabled Barbie released, it completely fucking flopped, even specifically among disabled children.

No one wants to fantasize about being a cripple, and if they say otherwise they're lying.
Anonymous No.96483130
>>96451238
No, it definitely isn't a fantastic trope.
Anonymous No.96483148
>>96435820
Wearing an eyepatch is only a hindrance if the player so chooses. If you take the Blind flaw, you get the drawback, and you get the benefit of gaining Resolve from it. If you don't take it, you don't get the drawback and don't get the Resolve. Entirely up to the player.
Anonymous No.96483156
>>96436148
No it isn't.
Anonymous No.96483170
>>96436716
No.
Anonymous No.96483179 >>96483260
>>96437083
Who told you that any of those characters aren't acceptable?
Anonymous No.96483192
>>96437514
Why should we?
Anonymous No.96483232
>>96440305
Obviously false.
Anonymous No.96483234
>>96444072
We're never going to stop opposing you, kike.
Anonymous No.96483252 >>96485518
>>96448939
No matter what you turn into, you get wheels. Even if you're just a limbless slime monster, life, uh, finds a way.
Anonymous No.96483259
>>96448095
what's his name?
Anonymous No.96483260
>>96483179
reddit
I've also had people lash out at me for playing a mute character despite still roleplaying and communicating via charades and nonverbal means, and a witch with leprosy and a useless arm, and a completely blind character in a freeform anime RP. The simple fact is that if your disability cannot be magicked away it is not going to be allowed at the table, even if they claim to be "inclusive" because it's too much for them to handle.

Just another example of left-wing ableism. Your disability is welcome until it inconveniences someone.
Anonymous No.96483274
>>96448111
They are things to be cured, dumbass.
Anonymous No.96483285
>>96448095
>a kid in the pirate game wanted to cure his asthma
The fuck? Asthma isn't just shortness of breath, it can literally KILL you. What's next, a #MyTumorMyChoice movement where people talk about cancer pride?

This is why able-bodied people should not speak on diability issues without supervision from someone with that disability.
Anonymous No.96483298
>>96449882
You think that's the significant hazard here? lol.
Anonymous No.96483355
>>96461858
Why?
Anonymous No.96483373
>>96434606 (OP)
The funniest part of this image is that the swordfighter's opponents aren't even visible. It's like the artist knew, subconsciously maybe, that there is simply no reasonable way for this asshole to fight anyone. How are you going to fight when you can't even engage with the most basic fundamentals like spacing and footwork?
Anonymous No.96483389
>>96471030
Why should things that are bad be accepted?
Anonymous No.96485497
>>96460312
>Is there any reason not to use a combat wheelchair, even if you're not a cripple? It just seems like it's so good that you'd be stupid not to.
>The origin of the Daleks
Anonymous No.96485518
>>96483252
OH FUCK! OH SHIT!
i roll to press against the wall extremely hard.
Anonymous No.96485717
>>96462998
>AnΓ‘rionlite
And up in the Trollshaws, that's where I wanna be,
Hunting trolls and hillmen with my buddies next to me,
Elladan on the left and Elrohir on the right,
And five full mags of ammo for my little AnΓ‘rionlite.

And the Witchking of Angmar came riding to the ford,
The black breath of nine dwimmerlaiks was pressing on the ward,
He yelled "Come out you coward Noldors, put up your swords and fight!"
But he said "I'm only joking" when he saw my AnΓ‘rionlite.
Anonymous No.96486092
>>96436029
Completely irrelevant aside: it's been hilarious watching the virgin/chad meme get steadily more and more misunderstood until it now gets unironically used in completely the opposite way to its original intent.
Anonymous No.96486293
>>96457744
wheelchairs in fantasy are fine, wheelchairs in d&d are retarded.
is all about how healing magic works in the setting.