Thread 96473861

Samus is in 3.0. Samus will occupy your LoW slot. Look out! Samus is here!

Previous thread: >>96456189

>Legacies:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N

>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
Will you be fielding Legacies daemons or waiting for the strictly better paypig versions?

>>96473861 (OP)
>>Thread Question:
>Will you be fielding Legacies daemons or waiting for the strictly better paypig versions?
Is this the beginning of "counts as" in HH?

>>96473861 (OP)

Honestly at this rate I reckon the Militia PDF can probably make a more convincing Daemon army

>>96473794
Speaking of Alpha Legion, are there any stand out targets for Coils or should I just go with cool stuff I want to run in Metallic Blue?

>>96473900
You don't have a big mad HQ

>>96473916

You do if you ally the only relevant part of the Daemons PDF back in

knightsbros what are your lists looking like?

analysis paralysis is making me question filling out the armiger talon completely. thinking double questoris, one with 2x rfbc and one with 2x thermal, maybe a castigator and then fill the armiger talon out with moirax and helverin... or i drop an armiger and upgrade the cerastus to an atrapos to be spicy. i want to try a 2k game with some bros who are interested but my lucifer black militia[/spoilers] aren't finished yet.

>>96473864
Over time they lost their discipline and culture, even their homogeneity. It's likely even their geneseed is different now, since AL are all supposed to look like clones of Alpharius but this is what a modern AL looks like

>>96473908
You mean RoT? Just the usual goodstuff units. Suzerains, Medusan Immortals, Justaerin, etc.

>>96474067
HH era AL marines underwent plastic surgery to look more like Alpharius and each other. They most likely stopped doing that post heresy.

>>96474067
Erm, you just posted the spitting image of Alpharius.

>>96474081
I thought it was a geneseed, like how so many SoH look like Horus, same deal with Salamanders and Vulkan, RG and Corax, EC and Fulgrim, etc

so what are Daemons good for besides fluffy ally slop in a WB list?

>>96473883
That was militia, which is purpose built for a hobbyist oriented collection.

Asking again. What was the print run of the leather bound hardback black books? I’m trying to finish my set but some of the books are very hard to find. Where can I look besides eBay?

>>96474091
The only Legion that ends up looking more like their Primarch is the Blood Angels and their tendency to become blonde pretty boys.

>>96474075
Sorry, I meant for Rewards of Treachery, the prime bonus they have in 3.0.

>>96473995
This, allies are so easy to slot in exactly what you want. The various provenances have inhuman horde type options. I can see plague zombies using Debased Rabble, tainted weapons, and Endless Horde.

>>96474091
There is always some level of that, but it doesn't express itself in every marine, and the levels of similarity varied a lot. Even within SoH there were marines who looked nothing like Horus That those who did look like Horus rose faster and higher through the ranks was pure coincidence, honest

>>96474109
I don't care for mortals, I forget they exist.
So how long until actual HH players start complaining about WYSIWYG?

>>96474116
Anon, I am sorry but you are fucked. You can look into your country second hand market on facebook (full of scams) but otherwise ebay is your only choice.

>>96474203
Were the books limited to like 2k per or something?

>>96474224
We just don't know.

>>96474239
I have books 1-5. I need 6-9! Nice collection. Maybe I can talk to eBay stores over seas.

>>96474245
Oh those books aren't mine, just a random picture I got off of Google images. Pic related is mine.

>>96474116
200 each or something? It was low, and one shot each.

>>96474272
>Black books stopped and FW got reabsorbed into GW after book nine
This stinks of Tzeentchian meddling.

>>96474297
Book 6 was the beginning of the end though

>>96473861 (OP)
Ironic pic given the HECKIN EPIC TWIST on the last page of the End and the Death

>>96474239
Home address and times you are out of the house?
Asking for a friend

>>96473861 (OP)
I don't think we're getting 2 versions anon.

>>96474272
Crusade looks so sad and pathetic next to the GIRTH of the earlier books
>>96474340
No it was book five

>>96474352
>I don't think we're getting 2 versions anon.
James hisself has already confirmed were getting more yummy wummy Sloptica daemons

>>96474359
>book five
Why? Tempest and the Betrayal at Calth box sets/books were great, IMO
I still want those 30k containers from the Calth diorama...

>>96474359
It was book 4 you retards, when they randomly derailed the story to highlight random fuckass mortals no one asked for.

>>96473908

I've been trying to figure this out myself. I personally quite like the look of Crimson Paladins purely because they're the melee counterpart to Lernaeans, scoring terminators with a heavy weapon in the squad, but that's not a serious mechanical assessment, the symmetry just pleases me.

Any kind of big stompy elite squad is solid - Suzerains, Huscarls for the biggest possible termies with integrated deep strike, Sunkillers for better BS than a normal HSS, etc, so I think you very much can go for whatever you think is neat. I'm interested to see if any of the custom Saturnine units in Forges of Saturn do anything worthwhile.

>>96473861 (OP)

I'm almost tempted to just throw a maxed-out divination/telekinesis Daemon Sovereign into a normal Lacrymaerta list with all the Ursarax. His D3 axe will take out anything short of a primarch, so he can occupy anything that threatens to roadblock the three squads of feral killbots from wiping anything with less than AV12 rear or 2+ SV 2W, he can score with Line 2-3 and if he gets a bit smashed up the advancing techpriests can heal him.

The main downside there is that he gives up Slay The Warlord if he dies, because he's a High Command choice, but that might be acceptable. Both Sovereigns and Archmagi are pretty swole.

Cant fucking pick an SA color scheme so I think I'm going to do steel plates, black suit. Maybe blue shoulders so its not totally fucking boring.

>>96474446
>Steel plates
>Black suit
>Blue shoulders
Some kind of disgraced Calth High Guard or other Ultramar affiliated unit?

>>96473908
Hard to say. Now that all types of command squads can go up to 10 man, and lernaean have become top tier, it's difficult to find any shortcoming that has to be covered by stealing a legion unit.

>>96474384
I hope this isn't like 2.0 where we got the same writing everywhere for stuff like militia(got nothing more), daemons (got slightly different brutes that GW wanted you to use only for a specific mission and a warlord trait that let you summon daemons) and knights errant(got nothing).

>>96474284
200? No fucking way it was that low. That can’t be right can it?

>>96474465
I do like the calth colors but dont want a white undersuit. My original idea was to do a "Solar Fyrd" and try and make them like pre conquest Saxons. Dark red or khaki suit, alternating red, blue, green shoulder plates with knotwork and horses but I think it might clash too much.

Also going to try inverse Cthonian and do red body plates, black head and shoulders but idk. Really like the SA, they are a lot of fun to paint. I jsut can't find what I like.

>>96474272
You bastard. That’s a nice collection. FUCK I want to finish my collection so bad.

>>96474116
Just shy of ten.

>>96474490
I had a similar issue, then I started to look at Napoleonic armies and the Old Guard uniform was the perfect inspiration. Plenty of kino schemes from that era anon, give it a try.

Holy fuck who is responsible for the daemon behemoth, I think this actually be the newest most dogshit unit in the game.
>WS/BS3
>AP FIVE melee weapon
>only 5 attacks so can't even rely on weight of attacks
>5+ save with no way to upgrade
>heavy and slow and purposeful
>infantry not walker, so even fucking 20 militia with needle guns will kill it fast
>warmachine and 250 points, literally same cost as harbinger and harder to get slots for
>heedless, so it literally can't even sit on an objective and fucking do nothing correctly
Honest to God I'd rather have 250 points of procurators than this piece of shit.

>nearly every board/community/forum follows the pattern of hyping up a release then trashing it after launch
>/hhg/ literally the only place that does the opposite
how?

>>96473725
Playing against DA is like playing a tutorial.
Companions aside, you are strictly better than them.
Their 2x fight is gimmicky, gambit is nice but far from BA or Vulkan tier (Vulkan broken pls nerf btw), and while people here tend to say their detachements make up for it I found out this is a lie. They're to put it bluntly, boring and shit.
Oh and I play SW as well. you won't have troubble facing them. Tartaros work amazingly well with our RoW and will give him nightmare. I like mine with Dual lightning but if you really want to push it, TH is still king.

>>96474555
The average age here is slightly older probably

>>96474359
>Crusade looks so sad and pathetic next to the GIRTH of the earlier books
Man the rules in Crusade were a slap in the face. DA had to pay something like 20 points for shitty upgrade and they introduced weird rules for their plamsa "flamers" (it was something like 10th iirc: d6 shots or something).
I would have given a lot to see what blight had in mind for the first instead of this crap.

>>96474582
I just turned 30.

>>96474555
Still happens here but it's much harder to do when the game has been stedily heading towards the gutter for years. I think it's just people that aren't familiar enough with HH getting excited because they don't know any better.

>>96474359
Crusade IS sad and pathetic even when compared to Malevolence. Malevolence at least gave us daemons and other fun stuff.

>>96474605
Not just the rules, the fluff too is very shit.

>>96474650
>t. Night Loser

>>96474575
DA have access to endless Prime Slots, they're doing fine

>>96474359
>Crusade looks so sad and pathetic next to the GIRTH of the earlier books
That's nothing, watch this

>>96474659
Outside of epic I don't have a marine army. And even in epic it's 1 out of 7.

>>96474407
>>96474476

I have a feeling I am just going to go with Grave Wardens because I like the terminator grenade launchers and Dual LC Raptors in a Spartan and send them out to blender something on an objective. Both are units I like.

Not sure if I should go full Coils and do Praetor, Delagatus, and two command Apex's for 3 stolen units with the primes, or I just build out a regular list.

>>96474555
HH players are usually more experienced with GW's shenanigans. They expect the absolute worst, then are pleasantly surprised when it isn't as bad as they feared.
/hhg/ has also survived the almost decade long content draught. There is a dedicated core of people who stick around for the love of the hobby aspect, rules are usually of secondary importance to them.

>>96474612
me too, nigga!

>>96474605
What was the best edition for Dark Angels out of the 3?

I have Saturnine fatigue.

>>96474820
Same they are slop

>>96474819
2.0 obviously? 6 rites of war and cheesy companions

>primarily into Heresy for narrative fun reasons
>there is 1 other active player in town
>he really seems to be more of a comp/WAAC player
>he plays Thousand Sons and his other runner-ups were Ultras and RG
>by his own admission he made the choice based on the rules
>the next closest community is 1 hour away in another town
Now I'm debating magnetizing a fucking predator when I've been living in Stillmania way. Anybody else know this feel?

>>96474820
Sounds like a personal problem

>>96474272
Wish they'd make at least MtO reprints. I'd even take regular hardcovers. Even if I had enough disposable income, I don't feel like spending couple of thousand for a few obsolete books at this point. At the moment I'm focusing on finding some 1.0 and 2.0 army lists.

>>96474800
but why shit on it up to launch? Either those people go away, they are trolling or they are actual schizos.

>>96474819
2nd was best for them and by a large margin.
3rd is their worse and by far.

Man, compared to opening up some options and doing some cool stuff like the 3.0 Militia PDF actually did, the Daemon PDF is even more garbage than the 2.0 one.

I'm almost done with my 2.5 scouring doc and was gonna do a generic crusade xenos doc in a couple weeks. But now I think I need to add a few pages of Daemon stuff too. That'll take some good fun thinkin'.

>>96474819
2.0, easy answer. They had a legion trait that was customisable, each unit could pick the buff best suited to their role.

In 1.0 the DA legion trait was basically non-existent, and in 3.0 it is actually non-existent lmao.

>>96474674
"Just get Centurions to get access to something that might make up for a RoW on one or two units"
Haha no. DA are shit and anyone with half a brain cell who played against them will probably agree.

>>96474759
Interesting, so the Thermal diffractor field comes form the "spines" on the shoulders. That means all those builds without the shoulders should lack the rule. Also they call the heads "helmets" so it maybe confirms that's the marine's actula head.
>>96474767
>The pauldrons have super advanced targeting systems that they couldn't put in other dreads
Then why is it BS4? They also call the disintegrator nozzles "muzzle brakes" so it suggests disintegrators have recoil and produce some sort of exhaust that can be redirected. And the legt lightning bolts represent veterans from the wars on Terra so that's some really fucking old marines
>>96474782
>centurion vexilla represents brother fighting brother
Damn, they had already designed custom banners by then? They worked fast
>>96474789
>Disintegrators were considered tainted
why?
>Disintegrators fire particle beams
Not how it looked in the cinematic but okay
>The cyclotron acts like a magazine and is the part you swap out to reload
cool!

>>96474868
There were a lot of trolls, many admitting it themselves, leading up to the 3.0 launch. There wasn't anything going on in 40k, and there are a lot of /40kg/ fags that hate HH with a passion.
And tons of doom posters who didn't read anything, assumed the worst and proceeded to crying and shitting themselves over the imagined problem.

>>96474912
>Then why is it BS4?
maybe lore wise it's supposed to help with the bulky and heaviness of the suit?

>>96473861 (OP)
>TQ:
I have yet to read through all of it but i dont play daemons anyways.

On an unrelated note, how would you guys suggest going about kitbashing twin linked assault cannon sponsions for a land raider? Gonna make one for my BA but not sure what bits i should try to get my hands on for it, besides starting with a crusader/redeemer box that is.
Have one of my wallpapers as a token for your thoughts

>>96474819
Obviously second, they got 3-6 times the content of other legions for 0 downside and could list tailor to do literally everything and get free upsides for them. The only reason they weren't the strongest is because raven guard got to win any progressive objective scenario turn 1 and iron hands and imperial fists had simple but bullshit units and rules.

So what armor facing of a vehicle is hit by Explodes?

>>96474944
Side armour I thought

>>96474944
I presume it use the same rule as a template (controller chooses)

>>96474912
>disintegrator weapons considered tainted
Highly advanced, incredibly powerful tech that is poorly understood at best. Combine it with the mostly religious view on tech in the grimdark, and it's not that weird if weapons are viewed with superstition and distrust based on nothing.

>>96474968
right but why not plasma or melta then? or even shit like dark lances and graviton. Why are disintegrators different? WE know painfully little

>>96474943
I don't see a lot of people talking about it, but SW were broken as hell as well in 2nd edition.

>>96474983
All those weapons were still being fabricated.
Disintegrator weapons all come out of ancient vaults or the Emperor's spicy weapons stock, from what I understand. And big E didn't really like them being used a lot by everybody.

>>96475007
SW lore is so trash not even WAACfags wanna touch that army. They've always had incredibly strong legion rules, but still barely anybody plays them.

>>96474944
>>96474958
>>96474959
I think it would be an attack that does not require line of sight, so side. God only knows if youre shooting a knight.

>>96474868
Why shit it up after launch? I don't like 2.0, 3.0 or LIgma and I made that pretty clear when they launched but why should I continue to shit up the same things after launch? It's not like anything is getting fixed, you still have retarded things like basic champions being locked into choosing between a serpenta or a combimelta in 3.0 and 2.0 didn't fix much either. I'd much rather post about the things I like.

>>96475014
do you think it's possible he intentionally spread this belief because they were one of the few weapons that could reliably kill Marines? So of course he'd want less of them around , and calls them spooky tainted tech.
Then again he was a hardcore atheist who didn't allow superstition so what were they tainted by?

Why are daemon harriers like 25 points, unit size 6 and 60mm bases now, but their actual unit stats are still just the basic 1 wound flying infantry from 2.0?
Did the designers get lazy and couldn't decide on whether they wanted shrikes back in the game again and never finished the editing? What the fuck is this hack job PDF man

>>96475020
The shit models don't help

>>96475048
Uh actually deathsworn are cool

>>96475041
I think they're supposed to be Screamers and the intern just got told they're on "flying bases" and since nobody at GW plays the games, they thought that's the big flying bases.

>>96475048
What's wrong with banana fur and upside down bolters anon :^)

>>96475036
>do you think it's possible he intentionally spread this belief
Very plausible, doesn't even have to be because they can kill marines. Disintegrators are very dangerous even to the wielder. A big enough disintegrator kills custodes too.

>>96475036
Disintegrators aren't just dangerous to who you fire them at.

>>96475131
>>96475114
These things also apply to plasma

>>96475134
To a much lesser degree. Even regular humans can survive a plasma weapon overheating, even if it does cause a crippling injury that takes them out of the fight.
A disintegrator misfiring doesn't mean severe burns or missing limbs, but being snapped out of existence.

>>96475151
since when does the Imperium care about individual lives?

>>96475134
Plasma gets hot, disintegrators remove the bonds that hold together your own molecules because the gun misfired or whatever the fuck they do now.

Why do people hate Custodes? Do they have a history of being OP?

>>96475157
Excuse me they Overload now

>>96475163
The players are unhinged WAACfags

>>96475157
>disintegrator misfire.gif

>>96475163
Custodes players are insufferable assholes without exception. People that are drawn to custodes only care about one thing, and that's being superior to everybody else - especially marine players.

Were there any knight houses, titan legios, or forge worlds associated specifically with the Word Bearers?

>>96475155
This isn't 40k.

>>96475182
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fire_Masters

>>96475155
The Imperium does care about marines disintegrating themselves without a chance to harvest geneseed.

For mortals it's more a matter of disintegrators being too powerful. Same reason citizens today aren't allowed to own nuclear intercontinental missiles, even in the USA. You don't want regular people having access to overpowered weapons if there is an uprising.

>>96475183
>Thunder Warriors
>Iron Warriors
>Anyone close to Angron
>Half the RG
And these are all super-soldiers, imagine how they felt about regular humans

>>96475163
Not muh 30k

>>96473900
agreed. I don't know why GW doesnt know how to write the rules for daemons at all. Bloodletters are an "upgrade" to change 2 WS4 S4 attacks with Shred 5+ to 1 WS4 S4 attack with Breaching6+.
Against a basic cata, it takes 18 daemons with claws to gobble one and 12 sword daemons to take one basic WS4 terminator. (132 points for 40), 10 tacticals pops 3 daemons per turn (33) with 24" shooting doing more than bloodletters who manage to get melee. Same pts, 13 tacticals vs 12 bloodletters, the marines do basically 1.5 wounds to a terminator instead of 2 wounds for the bloodletters, but 24" away and better scoring and better defenses.

Big daemons suck balls too. Samus is 400 with half the stats of a primarch due to EW1 instead of 2, WS7 and only 3+ armor. Even the measley dmg2 weapons like Fulgrim will instantly melt samus. Deepstrike melee has been butchered this edition so it's not even a scary gimmick. You could give all the big daemons EW2 instead of 1 and they'd still probably be below-average, but as it is now the entire army is a joke.

>>96475205
>state uses weapons of war as expendable weapons of war
>this means they treat their people even worse
There's a reason the primarchs weren't in the Council of Terra. They were not created to lead, but to fight for humanity. Them being replaced or throw into the grinder is no different from a military scrapping old tanks for new ones or sending them out to battle to get destroyed. Even some of the primarchs lamented how they don't really have a purpose in Pax Imperialis.

>>96475205
>TW
Thunder warriors were unstable and prone to psychosis and a literal genetic dead end. They were made in sheer desperation pulling all the stops to get them out to unite Terra .
>IW/WE/Terran RG/whatever else
You have a shitload of times in both BL books and FW blurbs where all of them are at minimum getting sanctioned or even in the case of the WE getting sent far away at the edges of the galaxy where they can only fight the worse the universe has to offer.
>And these are all super-soldiers, imagine how they felt about regular humans
Regular humans were leading the great crusade right before Horus rebelled. Marines might have more of a future than thunder warriors but don't fool yourself into thinking Emps valued marines more than humans. If it meant the liberation and salvation of mankind he would slay the throat of every single primarch or marine with his own hands.

>>96475264
>he would slay the throat of every single primarch or marine
He's doing what now?

>>96475321
I have slept only 3 hours today, "slit the throat" or "slay every single one" pick one, I had a brain fart and picked both at the same time.

Just got the new Heresy box for £100.
My brother and I enjoyed Heresy 2.0 but he disliked how annoying it was to balance all the rules of the Mechanicum and we didn't like how some things worked.
How do I convince him to play 3.0?

>>96474933
Yeah, I still see people bitching about the list building as if it’s some difficult puzzle and not just “the square goes in the square hole”. Theres a reason they made it so each rule comes with its own thesaurus lmao. It’s so the “very smart” heresy community could figure it out lmao

>>96475048
So shit the modelers forgot what direction the bolters go in lmfao

>>96475336
step 1 - invent time machine to 1950s, as he'll need to have a lobotomy operation to be dumb enough to actually enjoy 3rd edition's horrible rules.

>>96475336
Show him how goofy you can make the game. Super squads that wipe whole units out in one phase but kill half of themselves at the same time, jump pack squads with guns instesd of melee weapons, moritats. Pop open legacies and look at the interesting units that can still be kitbashed or the combos you can do with legion wargear. Now that just about everything is equally shit you can cut lose and make some super fun lists

>>96475358
Literally no one has bitched about list building because its complicated.
People bitch about it because its just a pregame minigame that lets you take essentially an unbound list with no real restrictions other than a centurion tax.
Also shit like the force org icons being made way less clear for no particular reason.

The rules are also dogshit because they're giga long AI slop that doesn't actually make the rules clearer in any way.
80% of the rules bloat is just pages of text explaining the same targeting shit over and over, instead of simply having it written once like any sane set of rules would have.

>>96475205
Thunder Warriors were genetically unstable and had a tendency toward insanity
Angron and Perty were censured multiple times for being retards
Corax got a long leash because he was the last Primarch found

>want to run moritat with ashen circle to let them use their great shooting without having to charge
>The moritat doesn't have bitter duty anymor

Why even live

>>96475421
Moritats are reformed, they got over their edgy phase.

Jokes aside that's one of the first house rules I'd allow, it's clearly an oversight

>>96475399
For the first paragraph I literally have heard that “list building in 3.0 is too complicated for me” over and over even after launch. Just because you’re lucky and haven’t heard sub 70’s bitch about it doesn’t mean it’s not happening. For the second, youve never been in a rules discussion online for any edition of the game. It’s common that someone would completely forget how the game works to complain a rule that’s fine makes no sense. Seriously pull up some of the old archive boards from 2.0’s launch. That shit was hilarious

>>96475421
Fuck up like Tartaros not having fists. Just houserule it. Any community worth being in won’t care

>>96475369
Nah, the space wolves are the niggers of space marines, and much like niggers don't know how to hold a gun correctly. Over the course of the great crusade. Fenrisian artificers adapted and turned their guns upside down so when the space wolves pulled their bullshit at least the scopes could still work as intended.

>>96475388
>he'll need to have a lobotomy operation to be dumb enough to actually enjoy 3rd edition's horrible rules.
elaborate

>>96475395
Goofy doesn't exactly sound fun, anon.

>>96475425
>>96475436
>clearly an oversight
>Fuck up like Tartaros not having fists.
Man you guys are STILL coping?

>>96475436
Tartaros were fixed but moritats weren't so thst should imply the omission wad intentional

>>96475443
Fun comes from the player

>>96475395
>jump pack squads with guns instesd of melee weapons
Which squad has this?

>>96475358
There is a difference between 'difficult' and 'needlessly complicated'.
There is no benefit to having to play 'find the most optimal set of detatchments to minimise tax slots and maximise Prime(tm) slots.

A force org chart is simpler, isn't going to suffer from inevitable prime bonus powercreep and detatchment powercreep (like fucking 7e), actually puts some rails on list building to keep things sane, and has symbols for different slots that are actually fucking clear and easy to see/distinguish, and are faction agnostic instead of this god awful set of space marine silhouettes that aren't even close to accurate for 50% of the units.

Honestly, what fucking loser nerd at GW thought simple geometric shapes needed to be replaced with various silhouettes of bloody space marines to make it as hard as possible to tell them apart.

>>96475469
nta but praetorion command squads with jump packs can take disintegrator rifles instead of melee weapons

>>96475469
Praetorian jump command squad.
Yeah it's a waste of strong melee but disintegrator rifles are cheaper than power weapons.

>>96475453
>>96475436
Daily reminder that GW 100% intended for tartaros squads to not have the 'heavy' melee weapons, as they explicitly said in the community articles, and the legacy doc STILL shows in the unit fluff piece for the siege unit.

>>96475443
yeah... shitty legacy PDF of 300 random unit profiles with half-assed balance that could disappear in a year or two with wacky stupid stats isn't a convincing pitch for why someone would want to play a game.
"Look at this super stupid overpowered thing I can do!!!!" is only enticing to people with 50 IQ who are too retarded to understand what makes a multiplayer game actually good.

>>96475469
Destroyers, Thallax, command squads, that one Custodes jump pack unit

>>96475395
>jump pack squads with guns instead of melee weapons
I wanted that shit for years or at least since DoW2

>>96475474
brought to you by the company where they tried to use color-coding instead of inches of distance in Kill Team. Yes, they are that retarded.
Army-building would be 3x faster if they replaced the retard icons with just the text.
All people do when they see the icon is first stop themselves and force themselves to translate "okay, that little guy is elites, okay that little guy is basic command, okay this is support", it'd simply cut out the entire decoding step if it simply said "Elites"

>>96475490
>>96475358
The key issue with 3.0 isn't any specific rules/wording/unit fuckery, its that it's extremely clear GW wants HH on a 3 year product cycle like their other product lines.
Even if they improve any faults in the rules, we KNOW there will be a new version in 3 years, which will have its own pile of issues/unit fuckery/etc.

That's the biggest reason why I would be inclined to stay on older versions because it's stable. If even HH5.0 ends up in some near perfect ruleset, the fact its going to go into the trash in 3 years just makes me go 'eh'.
Why chase GW on their 3 year bullshit when I could still with something consistant, and just house rule actual problems?

>>96475490
>that could disappear in a year or two
The 2.0 Legacies lasted until we literally hit 3.0's release week.

>>96475460
While I'm generally inclined to agree, the game being "wacky" and possessing insanely overpowered units that can one shot enemy squads hardly sounds like fun.

>>96475490
I should probably grab that legacy file before it goes away, huh?

>>96475490
>Look at this super stupid overpowered thing I can do!!!!"
Why does everyone here always assume everything is about making something powerful and then go into coniptions over anything that is and deride anything that isn't?

>>96475507
Words are better than what we have right now, but the old shapes (that have been more or less unchanged for 30 years) were genuinely peak in the sense that you cannot get any more simple than that.
It is, as that other anon said 'putting a square into the squad hole'. No need for reading comprehension, generic across factions and languages, you don't even need to know what it means, its just matching them, and anyone can tell apart different shapes at a glance, unless they have literal brain damage.

Also its just fucking dumb that they change shit thats worked for decades, kinda like how they've changed certain rules to just have new names for no real reason, or old rule names doing something completely different.

>>96475514
yeah, that's the real deal-breaker. By the time an average person spends 1-2 years putting an army together, the new edition suddenly comes out and you have to re-learn everything all over again.

The 3 year cycle also requires mandatory change for change's sake from GW, they need it as an excuse to sell new rules, so it's not at all unlikely that if people act toxic positive about HH3rd, HH4th will come out and say "we heard you didn't like the glancing/penetrating in 3rd, so we've given Tanks toughness values to make the game more user-friendly", "we've gotten rid of blast templates as they were slowing the game down and causing arguments", "we've decided the game will be more friendly by removing points costs for upgrades and weapons purchases, we heard you complaining that building an army was too complicated"

We're very likely only one or two flip of the cycle away from getting thrown 9th or 10th edition 40k rules. They make most of their money from 40k which is the only aspect the CEO cares about.

>>96475536
Because the average HH player is just a more stuck up waacfag than the mind dribbling retards currently inhabiting 40k. Why do you think when the common house rule became "yeah dreadnoughts are too strong, let's limit them to 1/1k" people heard "alright, take the maximum I can take for the points limit, got it" and not "I should take to my opponent to see how many dreads we take this game". Every hint of "it's much narrative game" it just a veiled "I want to win, but pretend I care about keeping friends"

>>96475259
>Bloodletters

Bloodletters don't exist, the Aetheric Dominions aren't the Great Powers yet

every model in the army gets conditional Line (up to Line (3)) in return for a Ld test all but Swarms will pass 3/5 of the time (and it's not like 2/5 is particularly unlikely, just that you're less likely to get Line (3) for it), failing the test has no penalty 2/3 of the time because they're unaffected by Tactical Statuses and yeah the rest of the time you lose 6W but so what? Troops slots are plentiful and your Troops are cheap as shit for guys who never run away, cause Fear (1) have a T4 5++ and 2A at WS4 Shred5+ for basic which is 1/12 to kill MEQ 1/24 to take 1W from TEQ and 1/36 to kill TEQ at Initiative

infernal blades are a sidegrade that remains 1/12 to kill MEQ and 1/24 to wound TEQ (at AP2) but take your handling of Aux from fuxxy 1/5 to fuxxy 1/2

again, these are 10 or 11 point Troops models with Fear (1) that have to be deleted because they will not run away from combat, you're gonna need to inflict more W on them because they're gonna shrug off 1/3 of it and honestly? rolling 3x6 in one batch isn't that unlikely, 1/36 is not that far from possible and you are gonna have a bad time if your answer to everything is more hammercata, never mind the inevitable eventual humiliation of losing your deathstar to swarms infiltrated into the chokepoints with Aflame (1) and Fear (1) that miraculously tank all your hits and make you run away

it's honestly like you guys not only don't understand games of chance but actively hate playing them or even thinking about them

why are you like this

did someone chase you around the walls of Troy and stab you in the leg while you were pleading with Fortuna when you were kids or something

you know what would make 3.0 better? metric

>>96475631
Reminder that nobody in here plays the game, or can imagine any other unit than thunder hammer terminators existing in the game.

>>96475649
Remember anon, if you don't have WS5, you're not worth considering.

>>96475647
I think they're holding on to the Imperial measurements to avoid alienating their US customers. Unfortunately the US will never get its shit together well enough to join the rest of the world in adopting the metric system.

>>96475681
>Unfortunately the US will never get its shit together well enough to join the rest of the world in adopting the metric system
Especially not when our current government is trying to leave the rest of the world...

>>96475631
>>96475649
But I do play in the US, I was >>96474846

Let's say, hypothetically, I wanted to focus on kitbashing my HH units, avoiding FW casts; and after going through generic units, I wanted to make Legion Destroyers one of my personality traits.
Have I failed at step one of avoiding casts? I mainly like the idea of area of denial grenades, and dual wielding bolt pistols clearing the way for a big warcrime cannon.
Second question, am I retarded for not seeing any matching left and right handed bolt pistols in 40k tac squad kit or the 40k Legionary kit?

>>96475647
BFG used the metric system and it's so dead they can't even revive it.

ok since they're still doing the "no models only base sizes" thing for daemons it's time to once again ask;
any ideas for what models to use for a daemon army? no actual daemon models allowed

>>96475735
You can try looking for old 40k Assault Squad bits, but at the moment you're shit out of luck if you want twin-pistols without 3rd party or recasters.

>Kratos finally back in stock on regional webstore
>Sold out again by the end of the day
Least played edition huh.

>>96475764
nighthaunt from AoS with nagash as your sovereign

>>96475764
Desu I was kind of thinking of using the revamped warmachine cephalyx line for militia, but make these big niggas as allied brutes

>>96475735
>I want to focus on kitbashing
>I want to avoid the majority of 30k kits
Ogey.

How do Daemons work in Astartes armies now? You take an esoterist so you can cram the brutes into a Manifestation detachment, then what? You cast the spell and they auto-pass reserves, they just deep strike onto the table or what?

>>96475808
And using this giga nigga as a hierarch

>>96475818
>How do Daemons work in Astartes armies now?
you just take daemons as allies same as any other army
esoterists are completely unnecessary

>>96475818
And then they walk onto the table like normal reserves unless you make them encroaching ruin, because one intern wrote these rules in a day while high on ketamine and didn't realize other factions have an entirely different version of breach the veil unlike the one harbingers have

>>96475831
If you just want brutes you can avoid paying the Harbinger tax by paying the Esoterist tax instead
>>96475834
And here I was thinking the Burning Lore change from Diabolism to Anathema was going to be COOL

>>96475765
>>96475810
If there were existing matching plastic pistols, I wanted to really lean into using my existing collection. Kind of wanted to do a "use what you have" kitbashing project to make the elite units unique.

>>96475808
>>96475819
could probably also use dark eldar fleshy guys or ogryn if you dont wanna get kicked out of the GW tourney

>>96475797
This general genuinely should not be considered a reliable source.

>>96475742
>BFG
>death
For a moment i thought i was on /40kg/

>>96474681
> Heckin specialist games soft backs!!!!
Pathetic and gay

>>96475854
Model them with two holsters, one pistol in hand, and the other one holding (rad) grenades, pointing, etc.

>>96475854
IF you mean 'use my existing 40k collection' than it can be done the old school way... but its significantly more work.

Back before FW had released all the heresy era armours in full, people would convert plastic 40k marines into the various marks with greenstuff and plasticard, so it can be done, with a fair amount of work.

For bolt pistols specifically, the left/right pistols are identical, so what you really need are left/right gun holding hands.
Now if you used FW models this wouldn't be a problem, since all their kits come with both left and right hand pistol/chainsword combos, but uh, not nearly so easy with plastic models.

>>96475764
might be the most obvious answer ever but tyranids
I always thought they embodied demon-ness more than daemons did anyway

>>96474067
>>96474088
15 second alpha legionary is a real thing.

>>96475858
Who gives a fuck about tournies, you can't even play house heresy in a game workshop store, all the tables are a foot too short

>>96475924
>Who gives a fuck about tournies
as someone who plays in them regularly, me

>>96475886
>>96475891
I'm mostly relieved that I wasn't missing a very obvious matching firing hand.

World Eaters Inductii talent - Eating

>>96475631

I actually quite like a look of the Daemon Sovereign as a drop-in ally. If you absolutely max him out with Divination and Telekinesis he's 430-445pts depending on whether you give him the I5 D2 sword for hacking up TEQ or the I3 D3 one for Custodes, dreads and can-opening vehicles, moves very quickly, shreds anything other than a Primarch in a challenge and can score with an average of Line 2 and a good chance of Line 3. Exorbitantly expensive, but very flexible and Lacry techpriests can heal him, to make those 7 EW1 4++ Shrouded wounds go further.

>>96476259
>"Blood for me! Skull for me belly!"

>>96475388
This is correct.

>>96475649
I direct you to >>96475590

>>96476259
I was just thinking yesterday about making a chonker WE assault marine guy, after posting this pic I realised my brain was probably thinking of this at the time.

Look at his cute chonkus maximus.

>>96476423

I was playing around with the idea of a WE Champ who used the Cataphractii rules, so I can put him with Vet Breachers without losing Heavy, but was modelled as just a really big fucker in artificer armour, Endryd Haar style. I may have to make him rather wider after seeing this.

>>96476423
Tortuga M5 body, file down the studs, jump pack from new MkII assault marines, Berzerker arms with the gloves, and maybe see if you can find 3rd party versions of those old Chaos Raptor helmets. Should be close enough.

KWAB x 2

>>96476513
>>96476555
I need WIDE boi. The black templar castellan guy would be a nice base (and yeah probably the new mk.2 jumppack since it looks bigger), but hes got a lot of crotch rag going on, so might be a bit of work to clean it up.

Are there any other just chonker models I could use as a base?

>>96476282
The daemon prince is WS6 so he sucks donkey cock, hitting things half his points cost on 5+ while they hit him on 3+. EW1 is ass when he costs 400. 3+ armor save for 400 points is a huge laughtrack. 5 attacks at 400 points is a complete joke, and he gets challenged so you can't even use Reaping Blow ever. His toughness 6 is already bad for the cost, but its worse because seekers just precision the toughness 4 daemon unit to insta-kill your 400 point prince since daemons don't have transports and deepstrike melee is no longer possible. If you raise his cost to 640-670 to have 6 brutes to get toughness 5 against precision, now he's slowed down by footsloggers and still a complete waste of points.

He's too weak to go solo in challenges, if he goes and hops on some HQ+10man retinue with banner, suddenly they get 4-6 extra attacks from Grandstanding support bonus against a lone monster and he gets torn to pieces because of his shit WS, and if he survives round 1 he's so wounded he strikes last or they could even switch to 4-6 bonus Focus from supporters on the 2nd round by doing anything other than grandstanding to lop his head off automatically aka Finishing Blow.

Fast bodyguard options for him - harriers or cavalry put him at toughness 4, so Seekers take a shit all over him and when he's wounded he goes last and dies in challenges. And since he costs as much as the 10 seekers + someone like sevatar/sigismund, they can always afford to counter his weak ass. While he's in the cavalry unit he loses all scoring ability despite costing 550-650 pts. Hiding in the flyers unit they're vanguard so he isn't allowed to score more than 1 VP despite being 550-650.

Having a lot of wounds and shitty WS is bad because it means taking twice as many wounds as he's dishing, initiative penalty gives opponent eternal Challenger Advantage (+1 attack and choosing the gambit every turn and choosing to keep it in the challenge until the prince is dead and can never be healed)

>>96476047
"Compose yourself and aim straight; you're going to kill a man."

>>96476636
I can't tell if this is a copy pasta or not considering how wrong it is

There is literally nothing wrong with simping for Sisters of Silence.

>>96476770
Simping for a bald woman makes you a faggot

>>96476780
>liking women makes you gay
get out of that closet anon

>>96476793
Oh hey Will Smith, didn't know you posted here.

>>96476793
>n-no liking women who look like men doesn't make me gay
I bet you jack off to trannies

>>96476780
They clearly have pony tails, which are hot.

>>96476819
>women in titty plate armour and pony tails are men and its gay to like them
Sure thing bro, whatever you say.

>>96475961
You’re a skidmark on this hobby.

>>96476793
Bald women are yuck, anon. It's like having hair and decide to be bald on purpose, which is retarded. I cannot respect Genestealer Cults as a faction.

>>96476770
Sisters of Battle are sworn to silence. Why must they also be sworn to dumb hairstyles?? A top knot and a ponytail are essentially the same, but one's not silly.
Too bad they won't ever be depicted with 80's hair (lost age of legend), and any non-top knot heads are unofficial third party

>>96476849
>>96476850
Cope all you want faggots, balding is literally a masculine trait. YWNBAW

>>96476872
>fa/tg/uy doesn't know what shaving is
typical neckbeard

getting this defensive isn't helping your claim of not being gay btw

>physically fit female with birthing hips yearning for acceptance as she protects you from pskyers
Thousand Sonsfags seething and slandering kawaii witch hunters.

Does anyone have pictures of the engine kill missions?

>>96476954
Top knots on women is not attractive.

>>96475163

They generally have the most toxic and insufferable playerbase of any faction.

>>96476705

Nah, it's accurate. Demons are trash, militia is king.

>>96476636

He can't even join units, anon, he's a Champion but doesn't have the Specialist or Command subtypes. 10 seekers ding him for maybe one wound if they have an Augury Scanner to strip the innate Shrouded 4+ he has from being a telekine.

How many enemy units are you usually seeing running around with whole-squad WS7? He's a Divination Psyker, so if the enemy picks FBlow in a challenge you get to hit on 2+ with D3 at base init 5 and squish siggy flat no matter how good his weapon skill is, and you can take a hit or two. Just don't swandive into Abbadon + 10 Justaerin or something and you'll be fine. Primarchs kick his arse because they have the raw stats to deactivate Every Strike Foreseen every round and beat him up while using no gambits themselves, but not a lot of other characters do, most are going to die before they even get to swing and he'll take five elite terminators by himself just fine if he has to, especially if he just put Phage (S) on the unit by cutting their centurion in half.

He's still expensive as hell and needs to be looked after, but you are spectacularly overstating your case here.

FW designed a bunch of Stacies to complement the Custodes, and GW has always hated it.

>>96477075
It's just a phase, anon. When her tour of duty is done or gets promoted, she'll grow it out again.

Blackshields will be good, I can feel it.

>>96475163
Shouldn't have been a playable faction. Tryhard bait becuase they're easy to collect and paint while leaning on raw stats.
>C'mon man let's just play kill points.

>>96475425
Agreed. Legacies are copy paste and have other units pasted in subsequent unit entities. Like the two destroyers.

So what do AL run their combi melta Headhunters as in 3.0? Shooty veterans? Seekers? Or has the wargear gotten FAQ'd?

>>96474446
Do a test model and take it from there

>>96477208
>>96473861 (OP)
>>Legacies:
>https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>>96475163
They should be locked in with on HQ and one unit of Custodes as allies max

>>96477149
That's a proper feminine look. And it does convey the ugliness of her lack of soul. This one >>96476954 is just some silly bald woman. But it's fanart, so I cannot hold it accountable

>>96476770
They got snubbed hard this edition, so messed up milita got options but not Sisters

>>96477232
>soul
She doesn't have one, it's kinda the whole point

>>96476770
She's shooting a contptor with a hand flamer, I don't think that's gonna do much

>>96477241
Everyone has a soul anon

>>96477075
So you like it on men then?

>>96477255
Not blanks. Souls in 40k are ypur presence in the warp. Blanks have no presence and actively harm the warp

>>96477261
Ok fair, blanks still matter tho

>>96477253
Do they have snowflake anti-psyker flamers tho?

>>96477258
Topknots are a lame substitute for James not being able to sculpt hair

>>96477286
Baldness is an advantage, beards and hair can be grabbed in a fight

>>96477130
All you've shown is that he's even worse than I thought. He's impossible to keep safe and harmless to everything relative to his points cost. He'll be shot off the board without earning back 1/3rd of his cost.

>>96477218
Oh excellent, too bad they lost the multi melta tho but it was very powerful

Hm

>>96477309
Multi-meltas are horrible in 3rd edition so you're not missing out.

>>96477312
What makes them so bad? I thought they did quite a lot of damage half range?

>>96477317
No. They now shoot 1 shot, with no rerolls, very low strength and melta is usually within 8" and only to vehicles (no double damage against a dreadnought or a terminator)
A MM is only strength 8 so it needs to roll a 6 to penetrate AV14 or it does nothing even if it hits. And armourbane means it never can inflict any status on the tank, so tank operates at 100% effectiveness. deepstriking counts as moving which prevents the Heavy(S) from activating and nothing else will ever be within 8" of a stationary melta.

>>96477336
Does combi-melta have the same issue? I'm still learning 3.0 rules

>>96477310
Come on anon, we call that the immaterium these days, don't be racist. God, you're embarrassing me in front of my mortally challenged friends.

>>96477241
Bro. "Her lack of soul". What do you think that means?

>>96477342
yes. Combi melta still 1 inaccurate shot with only S8, and that one only does anything to vehicles within 6". It also doesn't get Heavy so it doesn't become S9 when standing still. And combi-melta can only be used once (usually doing nothing)

They're situationally useful if you just have a few points to toss some randomly around where they'll shoot the back of a rhino after it dropped troops onto an objective or something... but they're weak unreliable anti-tank and not worth the points against terminators or other troops.

>>96477358
Ok thanks. What else do you recommend as anti-tank then? Do I just run Headhunters with stock combi bolters now?

>>96477306

It's certainly possible since he's not the toughest 425pt model out there, but he's more than capable of dismantling a couple of squads or clearing + scoring an objective, which is what you really want him to do since he's a giant smashy monster that also has roughly-Line(2). People manage to deliver far more fragile units than a T6 W7 EW(1) monster to their targets, even without the supporting techpriests providing 6" healing bubbles.

He can't solo a primarch, but there are a lot of other ways to produce 400pts of value and he can take down almost anything less capable than that while surviving most incidental fire with 4++ 4+++. If your opponent has three Krios Venators or two max size autocannon HS squads lined up on the sole approach route then you'll just have to do something about that first.

>>96477367
The better form of Melta is on the Kratos tank. 2 shots with melta double damage at 24" for dmg 8 (so 16 wounds possible from its main gun) with 4 lascannons that count as dmg2 stationary when when moving around. (and also a random autocannon but not important). It's also 14-14-14 armor and has smokescreen for 5+ FNP so it'll usually live all 4 turns to use its super melta.

Laser Destroyer Rapiers put some hurt on tanks with S10 armourbane out to 36" instead of 6", though more fragile than kratos. Dmg3 if stationary, dmg2 if moving, but 36" means occasionally they'll get the good hits if you can find a view and firing from one flank to another makes side shots more likely.

I'd probably just run the headhunters as Seekers instead. 10 seekers breaching4+ instead of 6+ is 8.3 tacticals wiped, while 10 headhunter banestrike combis only ups that to 9.3 tacticals. Except 18" range instead of 30" range. And the headhunters with 40 shots costs 225 instead of 195 for seekers. So if you adjust for points Seekers end up pulling even further ahead. Headhunters look like seekers anyway.

>>96477469
(oops deleted the mention, tacticals is the worst case for the seeker, against Terminators and 2+ save characters and primarchs and things, the 30" seeker guns do massively more damage than the 18" banestrike guns because breaching4+ is better than double breaching6+)

>>96477454
he's entirely capable of flubbing all his attacks with so few and 5+ to hit and losing you the game instantly because he's overpriced, unprotected and shitty WS and shitty stats.
Nobody is stopping you from picking retarded unit choices, but you ought to know you're consciously choosing the retarded soft dumb choice.

>>96477493

He has the same weapon skill as a Praetor, he's going to be hitting almost everything on 3+ and has a solid chance in a challenge of hitting on 2+ regardless of the target because of how Divination works. There are actually parts of the game other than Primarch fights, as it turns out, and although I do wish he had a couple more swings given the price he's still going to crumple almost any unit he touches over a round or two of combat.

>>96477469
Thanks for the post but too much math for me, I will just run what looks cool. I do not think Seekers have combi bolter access.

So
Warmongers
With Deep Strike being solely for ranged backline attacks and the potential to get suppressed on a wound from Interceptor, how do you equip them to minimize disaster? Just go cata with volkite and a hammer?

>30k boxing of Questoris Kniggas sold out locally

Given that 40k is replacing their box with a new sprue over the Las-Impulsor one and making the latter online-only, think they'll still sell the 30k ones with the weapon?

>>96477367
I haven't tested it yet, but I am floating the idea of a dual drill Leviathan and running it at AV14 stuff to either kill it or eat fire. Not sure if it will work or just be a giant target.

>>96477520
Sorry anon, that's a nice argument, but I've unfortunately mind controlled you into not just only bringing it in games where I have a WS7 character (ignore the fact that's literally 1-3 models in my entire army), but also into only running straight for said models in all cases despite the fact that you have super efficient tarpit models that are 10 points per T5 5++ would and also into forgetting the fact that daemons can just take ignore challenges and take D3 wounds instead if they want to barring the hierarch.

>>96477705
Will you drop pod it?

>>96477773
Probably not?

I need sort out the rest of the list and check whether I can afford a pod (both points and money). But not being able to charge out of DS and coming down T2 at the earliest is a major turn off. Leaving it on the table and running it feels just as bad though since it's heavy....

Dual chainfist contemptor would probably be better for that role, now that I think about it. 8in move vs 6, no heavy so it can run and gets a set up move for charges.

As someone whos first two armies in 1.0 were malal psychic beasts and squat militia, I feel these two releases have been... less shit then I was expecting them to be. I can rebuild both my armies up to 2K, they were 1.5K before with 300ish bucks per army. Also I've been working on 3d sculpting chain pickaxes as chain axe standins for my squats. So I'm hopeful for the future. Although I still got my whole ass space wolves army to paint.

>>96475436
Tactical squads cannot take chainswords anymore. This wasn't fixed and will ever be. The galaxy is ruined.

>>96475514
With all those rules/editions/killing units fuckery I am thinking alot to try 1.0. Would you hentlemen anons suggest this? Since I started playing early 2.0 I actually never played 1.0. Can you pls compare it in a sentence or two? I would be grateful.

>>96478072
1.0 is more of a shooting edition, things die fast, you take big units, there are strong options for basically every army that you need to self regulate, balance is all over the place in favor of flavor, core rules are ok, but get clunky in some areas.

2.0 is more of a melee edition, outside of the core marine army and legions army balance is a total joke. Reactions are fun, but overtuned. The core rules are tightened up in a number of areas, but introduce their own problems. Its a half finished edition by most standards.

Opinions vary by player, but 1.0 has All The Shit and a lot of it is playable and good, but you got some confusing rules interactions and older rules to contend with. 2.0 is a joke if you're not a marine player. If you're a marine player its actually pretty solid, but reactions and some unit choices require self regulation. Personally I prefer the flavor and units of 1.0, but I liked reactions and the core rules in 2.0. Fuck 3.0.

>>96474899
Prime advantages are busted and only a nogames wouldn't know that

What's the best way to paint Scars?
Mechanicus grey -> celestra -> ulthuan, with white scar highlights? And I guess just wash (nuln?) in the gaps and at corners?

>>96474067
They stopped doing this after the heresy, but even during the heresy, wasn't only a portion of the legion plastic surgeried into looking like alpharius?
I doubt all 200,000/200,000 alpha legion looked like alpharius.

>>96478151
IIRC a tech-priest aligned with the AL makes special mention in the novel that nobody in the modern legion is quite sure what Alpharius even looked like. One warband tasked him with surgically making them all look identical to Alpharius, but at best it was only an approximation extrapolated from ten thousand years old data.

>>96477309
They did not lose the multi-melta, it's still in the liber.

Now that meltas aren't the ultimate solution to the vehicle question, their value on Headhunters is the precision (4+). For 185 points you get a decent chance at killing any character in the game that doesn't have a EW, and you can also theoretically charge in afterwards to attempt to finish them off if they've got one or two wounds. Their daggers keep precision so despite only having 6 attacks and ws4 you'll probably manage to get one wound in.

I'm not saying they're good, they're probably still very overcosted compared to their points in seekers, but they do have a use. Use them like AL do - as a fire-and-forget single use anti-character missile. If you do still want anti-tank, they're a pretty cheap source of meltabombs so outfitting them all with those and banestrike + a multi melta would be a pretty versatile tank hunting squad

>>96478200
To add on to this, I ran the numbers and a 5 man squad averages 2 precision melta shots (so 6 damage) before saves. A full unit of 10 with 2 multi meltas and combis on the rest will inflict 4 precision melta wounds, so accounting for an average of EW(1) on primarchs you've got a decent chance of killing them if they fail 3 out of 4 invulns.

I usually roll very hot with headhunters so I'm definitely biased but I'm looking forward to running a ten man to make primarch enjoyers suffer.

>>96478113
Thanks for the reply. For now I like 2.0 shooting, but do not like the vehicles being made of paper. Dreads also super op is something meh, but with the 1k/1 limit it is bearable. Sice our group are only Marines players that are guieded by the rule of cool, we actually have pretty fluffy armies and lot of fun on our games. But will for sure try 1.0.

>>96476513

The secrets of the WIDE are known only to a select few in the traitor legions it seems.

If you wanted to get into Horus Heresy at this moment, what would be the best approach to miniatures? Just buy offical plastics, third-party sculpts, or 3d prints?

>>96478236

Primarchs are sadly EW(2) minimum, so sniping them with meltas doesn't work so well. If you want to absolutely annihilate characters, you can get a unit of True Believers headhunters from that one apex detachment and attach a magos to give them the +1BS juice so their banestrike shots crit on 6+. It makes transporting them a bit of a bitch or requires some multi-unit coordination because their range is quite short and they can't infiltrate with the magos attached, but it's only about 50pts more expensive than the all-melta solution and also gets you a heavily geared Prime Magos ready to fix your tanks and tank a bit on his 2+ save, FNP and 4W.

Against a primarch embedded in a T5 terminator squad, the demon headhunters average 4.8 wounds, which is within the same kind of slight-highroll range of oneshotting a primarch as meltas against EW(1) and will absolutely finish the job if the Primarch provokes Return Fire or Overwatch, after which the squad can maybe crit a few termies to death and die happy. Absolutely a gimmicky way to spend 400pts, but a fun one, since they'll shred basically any infantry if there's no characters to annihilate. Universal power daggers also aren't nothing if Jimmy Magos has incidentally provided WS5.

>>96478358
Honestly it's cheaper to get into then 40k is, and I think AOS for the most part. Do some mathhammer for factions you like the idea of and build a 2K list. 2K is small enough to be 'cheap' most of the starter or bundle boxes are roughly 2K points.
My logic is get the plastic dudemens, and print or third party the bling or weapons. As someone that prints, you can print 20 marines, easy. But it's easier to print 10 special weapons and just buy the 20 marines. Less chance for print failures and shenanagins.

I faced Salamanders for the first time yesterday.
Oh boy did they went from zero to hero.
Nobody told me they were the powerhouse of 3rd edition. Between fnp prime, great wargear and Vulkan being straight up broken: what's not to like.
I'm happy for any sallies player after what they had in 2nd, but oh boy aren't they a pain to deal with now.
Any advices on how to deal with them ? My biggest takeaway is that their units tends to be slow so speed is something I should play with if I have the tools but other than that, I don't see much.
I don't play TS so rending spam isn't on the tabble for me.

>>96478445

I'm curious to see if Iron Hands are similarily hard to shift.

>>96478386
I think you're right, I mustve misremembered most of them being EW1. I really like your headhunter bomb idea and was the guy responding to you about it a few threads back, I'm actually trying it out in my next game (I'll let you know how it goes)

I agree people are sleeping on power daggers, I'm personally thinking of putting master sgt on an Effrit squad for challenges, power daggers with finishing blow are quite nasty and it would be a really cheeky way to take out a centurion or the like.

>>96478530

Precision also works on melee and you assign the precision strikes after you know whether they wound or not, so I think using the daggers to neatly poke most or all of the enemy assault/despoiler/breacher power weapons to death before they can swing might make them surprisingly stubborn against lighter melee units you'd expect to clean up shooty MEQ like that.

>>96478114
Don’t throw around "no game" just because someone points out flaws you don’t want to hear. I’ve played with DA and against them, so my opinion comes from actual table experience, not your potential armchair theory.
Having a couple extra prime slots doesn’t magically fix the fact that they’re missing a solid RoW, and their legion-specific prime is literally just a watered-down version of the generic one.
Yes, they can lean on easy access to companions and Interdiction spam, but let’s not pretend that suddenly elevates them above the limitations everyone can see.
Aside from calling people names, it looks like you’ve got nothing else to stand on.

>>96478129
White Primer->Paint other colors->Varnish->Enamel wash

>>96475163
Yes, their shooting had to be gimped multiple times because they are the "I win in melee" faction. They had rules tailored to be even stronger against units that had high weapon skill.
>>96475183
>implying

>>96475262
>There's a reason the primarchs weren't in the Council of Terra
it's funny how Ultramar mogs the wider IoM in every metric and it's specifically run by said super soldiers.

Random tidbits from the Loremasters episode on Saturnine armor. Can't recall exactly which parts were already covered between the core book and the journal tactica.
>the tech-enclaves of Phoebe are directly allied to the Imperial Household through the Writ of Procurement, wholly separate from the Treaty of Olympus Mons, and as such are allowed quite a bit of latitude so long as they furnish the Imperium with weapons to the Emperor's own specifications
>this scales incredibly poorly because Phoebe is tiny and its adepts are the only ones who have both the knowledge and willingness to maintain this technology, as the Mechanicum doctrinally refuses to have anything to do with Phoebe's blasphemous innovations
>although the Saturnine tactical dreadnought armor pattern first entered service in the Unification era, the dreadnought proper only existed as a concept until Vulkan completed its design in the final years of the Great Crusade
>field testing and refinement was handled by Vulkan's Pyre Wardens with notable support from the Thousand Sons, with little or no involvement of the Martian sect
>even before Vulkan's relaunch the Dark Angels boasted a large stock of Saturnine suits
>Horus leveraged his Warmaster title to requisition a ton of fresh suits for his legion
>the Space Wolves were slow to adopt Saturnine, its psychic requirement made them think it was tainted by witchery
>the Iron Hands' ties to the Mechanicum precluded widescale adoption of Saturnine
>the Death Guard were eager adopters because the pattern nicely complemented their infantry doctrine, the psychic component was downplayed so as to not stir Mortarion's antipathy
>the World Eaters discovered that on top of the strain Saturnine normally put on the wearer, the armor also amped the Butcher's Nails, earning the few wearers the name Endurant
>the Night Lords commissioned a fuckton of suits from Ulan Huda, but these were imitations and not true Saturnine armor in the mold of Phoebe and Vulkan

>>96476780
>>96476819
>>96476868
faggots with no taste

>>96478660
>>96475163

The Custodes are a pretty classic example of a faction screaming to be two or three units in an Agents of the Emperor/Warmaster grab bag book but get really annoying when you scale them up to a full faction, because they have exactly one kind of unit and it's "EW or equivalent TEQ but better than yours".

>>96478666

Hey, rare Ulan Huda mention. Darkmech Unicron feat. Archmagos who could meaningfully duel the Lion somehow managed to completely outshine the Night Lords in their own black book.

>>96478635
Lets see
>DA: ld 6 cap, no actual combat benefit
>EC: +1 initiative when charging, conditional combat benefit - stupefy buffs when shot, combat benefit
>IW: ignore morale modifiers, no actual combat benefit
>WS: +2 move, no actual combat benefit
>SW: +2 set up move, no actual combat benefit
>IF: +1 to hit with bolt and auto, combat benefit
>NL: +1 WS in CC vs unit with status, conditional combat benefit
>BA: +1 str when charging, conditional combat benefit
>IH: -1 str to shooting, situational combat benefit
>WE: +1 attack when charging, conditional combat benefit - increased morale and +1 attack after failed check, conditional combat benefit
>UM: +1 reaction, no combat benefit
>DG: heavy bonus when moving 4", situational combat benefit
>TS: Arcana buffs, combat benefit at cost of risking perils
>SoH: full BS volley fire, situational combat benefit
>WB: +1 combat resolution, no combat benefit
>Sal: never wounded on a 2, combat benefit
>AL: 2" further away when shot/charged, no combat benefit

Barely over half of the legions have a rite of war that actually increases their effectiveness when shooting or in melee, and most of them are conditional and/or situational. Vehicles aren't affected by any of the legion traits. So explain to me how DA have it worse, when most legions fight on the same level as them for the majority of the time.

>>96478666
did they say if marines so endowed were fucknuggets?

>>96478660
>pic
I think it's always worth remembering that the Imperium seemingly has no concept of war crimes. At least not in a humanist sense. There's plenty of taboo weapons, like phosphex and nuclear weapons. But when an explanation is given for why a type of weapon sees limited use, it usually goes that the weapon is dangerous to the wielder, or that its usage causes collateral damage to the conquest. It's rarely the case that a weapon is "forbidden" because it might inflict incredible levels of suffering on a target. But if it causes them to suffer and also makes their planet less valuable as an acquisition for the Imperium, someone might raise their voice against the latter.

>>96478666
>>the Night Lords commissioned a fuckton of suits from Ulan Huda, but these were imitations and not true Saturnine armor in the mold of Phoebe and Vulkan
Lmao the fucking Temu legion

>>96478666
>even before Vulkan's relaunch the Dark Angels boasted a large stock of Saturnine suits
Nice, was hoping there would be a lore tidbit that allowed my DA to have saturnine that isn't build by a nigger :^)

>>96478615
They always troonscale infantry but I never see troonscaled vehicles

>>96478706
No I don't think they mentioned it. They said the suits were derived from the equipment used by maintenance workers servicing plasma reactors and such. And the suits interfaced with the black carapace. But I didn't hear any talk about limb removal.

>>96478615
Unbelievable that people pay money for this troonscale pr00ntslop, fucking kek

>>96477240
Will they get new stuff later on?

>>96478811
In the good timeline GW will give SoS a full model range to go alongside the talons liber release.
But we all know we don't live in the good timeline.

>>96475661

Factually incorrect.

So surely coming off a back to back HH pdf dump and the fucking blood bowl edition jumping over us THIS Sunday is forges of Saturn right?

>>96478929
WD had a saturnine article and there was a loremaster episode on them, so it would line up nicely.
But this is GW we're talking about.

>>96478929
They've been pumping the new dorf army for AoS this week, so I think we'll see that rollout first.

>>96478929
What is this Forges of Saturn you speak of? Another tatica journal?

>>96478961
Saturnine Command Squad and the Word Bearer Saturnine fuckers

>>96478961
Yes. It has been talked about by GW interns since before 3.0 launched even, and how we know that saturnine centurion and saturnine command squad rules will be in it.

It is quite highly anticipated by a decent amount of people, because they want a fitting retinue to go alongside the saturnine praetor they got in the launch box.

>>96478703
I'll play :
EC: triggers on condition YOU can control and always lets them swing faster.
Much better than DA: consistent combat benefit.
IW; triggers on something the enemy does but is a straight reliability, morale debuff is basically irrelevant for them.
Better than DA and a straight upgrade compared to the first: IW practically solves morale; DA only “caps” niche cases.
WS: directly impact things you can do. Positioning wins games: faster charges, better objectives, positions etc.
Better than DA: applies every game, every turn.
SW: directly impact things YOU can do and allow you easiest charges, can even enable you to bypass volley fire.
Better than DA: directly influences charges and can deny a shooting salvo.
IF: triggers on condition YOU can control and is a pure lethality buff. Always useful on the weapon 80% of your army carries, directly depends on something you can control.
Better than DA: affects most of your firefight, not just rare morale cases.
NL: triggers on condition YOU can control
Conditional, yes, but a tremendous buff on your units that can triggers depending on things you do during your turn (not to mention NL can very easily inflict statuses, making this even easier to use).
Better than DA: A situational but very impactful offensive bonus instead of a situational morale cap.
BA: triggers on condition YOU can control. A common trigger with devastating effect.
Better than DA: BA charge harder instead of barely noticing morale.
IH: triggers on something the enemy does but is a reliable defense vs any shooting weapons.
Better than DA: meaningful resilience > situational morale cap.

>>96478971
>>96478975
Ahhh, I see. Considering the title, I was expecting something related to the SA forges, like a detachment for Charonite Ogryns. Still, hope that you get what you wish for anons.

>>96478703
WE: triggers on condition YOU can control. Simple but effective buff that’s easy to trigger
Better than DA: Straight up buff to mele output > situational morale cap.
UM: directly impact things you can do giving you utility, flexibility, and counterplay.
Better than DA: useful every game, unlike a situational morale cap
DG: directly impact things you can do, giving you maneuverability without sacrificing firepower bonuses.
Better than DA: a condition you can actively trigger yourself.
TS: triggers on condition YOU can control. A risk/reward, but directly and greatly enhances combat.
Better than DA: their gamble has a payoff; DA’s doesn’t.
SoH: directly impact things YOU can do. Situational but brutal when it triggers.
Better than DA — situational lethality > situational morale defense.
WB: directly impact things you do. One of the weakest, but always applies in melee. Can allow you to win combat res, or avoid losing one.
Better than DA: guaranteed combat modifier > situational morale defense.
Salies: triggers on something the enemy does but brings flat durability across the board against the most lethal weapons.
Better than DA: always relevant against Str6 and 6+ weapons.
AL: directly impact things THE OPPONENT can do, giving you subtle defensive positioning advantage. Harder to target and harder to charge.
Better than DA: always on, tactical impact every game.
In shorts: Dark Angels are the only ones to have a RoW that only matters against specific debuffs, does nothing if the opponent isn’t bringing those tools, and even when it triggers, is not reliable enough to actually be relied upon.

>>96478034
is this from the WD ?

>>96478615
Does the STL come with other helmet options?

>>96478680
That is not even a human. Not even an ugly one.

>>96479017
>>96479023
So GW balanced it with what, giving DA unit double prime slots, handing out crazy rules and synergies to DA legion units and gear?

Me, I'm most interested in forges because I want to see if the writer's hatred of word bearers is terminal or if they just want to resell their gimmicks to them, like a "late heresy" word bearers journal (stupid niggers don't know how word bearers were at the endgame of chaos before horus even became warmaster, early heresy is just them being full blown chaos fuckers in disguise)

>>96479116
Exactly. So you’re admitting the DA trait is so bad it needed life support right from day one? Because that’s what it sounds like.
But let’s cut the nonsense. DA aren’t swimming in broken mechanics. The ‘crazy rules’ you’re hyping? The gambit and the reaction are fluff-tier, not something you ever build a game plan around. Companions with EW(1) are fine, the Lion is a solid beatstick, but that’s hardly the galaxy-breaking package you’re pretending it is.
And this double prime slot cope? Don’t make me laugh. They don’t just fall into your lap. You unlock them through detachments, and those come with an HQ tax, points, slots, and opportunity cost. It’s not free, it’s not broken, and at the end of the day DA will usually field maybe two more prime slots than anyone else. Acting like that’s some superpower just screams you don’t understand how the system actually works or that you're arguing in bad faith

>>96479081
one is studded for your pleasure without any intake thingie at the top as in the example
i don't think they'd be very friendly to use with any others

>>96479017
>>96479023
>Completely misses the point
Why are DAfags always so retarded.

>>96478715
Yes.
>The Night Lords mostly avoided the slow and bulky armour, though at least one commander saw its benefits and acquired a whole company's worth of plate from the Dark Mechanicum forge world of Ulan Huda. However, given the nature of the predator forge, these were not true suits of Saturnine armour, but rather a debased copy.

>>96478666
>Phoebe is a direct vassal of the Emperor
>the Dark Mechanicum hates Phoebe and the Emperor
>still produces all the fresh Saturnine suits with a breastplate displaying a Saturnine Aquila symbolizing Phoebe's bond to the Emperor

>>96479323
Is it me or is the plasma cannon on Saturnine too stubby? It looks like a gatorade keg

>>96479379
They've really gone full retard with aquillas ever since 2.0 came out...

>>96478043
>no constellation patterns
>no chapter insignia
I don't fuck with this. Not muh bearers.

Was the forge world of the helwrights that the word bearers worked with to create their super ships like the furious abyss ever named?

>>96479409
The forge was located on a moon named Thule, but I don't think it's specified whether that's in Sol or elsewhere. In any case the forge was destroyed after the ships had been delivered.

>>96479379
That's how the blueprint says they're supposed to make it. Maybe some of the forcefields are in the aquila. Just because they turned traitor doesn't mean they suddenly have full understanding of experimental tech that only a primarch could figure out

It's not the aquila, it's the saturnine eagle.

>>96478706
WD says they're gimbal joints so I suppose we're meant to think there are limbs filling out the suit. >>96474759

>>96479269
Wow, devastating comeback. You must be exhausted after squeezing out that single neuron to type "DAfag".
You’ve got nothing to say, so you default to some caveman tier insults ? Embarrassing

>>96479467
>mechanical elements such as the gimbal joints on the arms and legs
That sounds like it's implying the opposite? I sure wouldn't want to be sticking my elbow in a gimbal at least

>>96479229
Different anon, then the initial one. I was stricktly asking how such a bad set of rules was balanced. what I expected was bad legion rules, but very powerful units and gear option to be the balance.
I do not know what rules DA have in 3ed. But you did make me read them. Seems like the balance are the special detachments with extra prime slots. which I guess is nice, but I have not seen detachment being a limiting factor in normal sized games. Maybe in 1000-1500pts games do get some extra edge other legions don't have. But that ain't the point range the game is played, at least in my area.

I agree with you that stuff like companions and cenobium are fine. Or just fine. No venguard on cenobium seems odd, and dreadwing interemptors are just straight up trash. Expensive flamers that can kill themselfs, but don't have panic. Maybe if they were torrent (aka torrent was still a rule) they would be better. Now they feel like a downgrade to plasma TSS, and plasma TSS are already meh. My condolances to DA players.
At least you don't have it as bad as White Scar bike armies players. Although those are a camp they only share with pure demon armies and SoS.

>>96479269
But he isn't wrong or is he? Fear 2 is on how many units in the game 4, maybe 5 ? And their Ld thing doesn't work in melee just in shoting. The fight again thing is nice on units that fight on death (do DA have units that fight on death?) or otherwise that is a kind of a win more option , and it is really bad if DA are fighting units that are better at melee then them.

GW could have given DA straight up "immune to fear" and I still think people would still rank their trait is kind of a weak.

Forgive me for being a noob anons, but what would be the best way to build an allied detachment of militia to go alongside a shooty army of Iron Warriors? I have a pile of Cadians from an abandoned project that are just begging to be made into Imperial Army.

I'm pretty sure there are provenances to cover this

>>96479596
Kinfolk Helots, tainted flesh. The bigger problems is figuring out what to actually use for basic troops because all of those look like command troops with power weapons or something

>>96478811
Bananaboys and girls are getting a big release when the Liber finally releases in like a year's time. GW has even said as much.
There is no mention about the Sisters anywhere. GW hasn't said anything, and they literally said the Custodes were getting stuff.
Not a single rumour monger has said anything. Not a single leak.
Nothing at all.
At best, they're getting a pity character, or some additional resin kit that was allegedly meant to have drop like two or three years ago.
At worse, they continue to exist in their current limbo state till 4th ed comes along.

>>96479593
Expendable levy squads gumming up the opponents front line.

>>96479476
>>96479559
The majority of legions do not get any benefit to hit and wound rolls involved with damage, the only thing that actually matters. Or it is something very situational that has easy counterplay, like SoH having better volley fire meaning fuck all if they get locked in combat with a set up move.

You can mental gymnastic as much as you like about how a little more movement or less range matters, it doesn't affect the damage output of a unit. Nine times out of ten the DA legion trait has as much impact on the outcome of an engagement as most other legion traits. DAfags now are just what TSfags were during 2.0: crying little WAACfags upset that their free win combos no longer work.

>>96478034
New Traitor Sallie scheme just dropped?

>>96479649
Too bad there isn’t actually a mechanic to expend enemy ammo.

>>96479709
Units shooting levy squads can't shoot something else at the same time. Units locked in combat with a levy squat gnawing at their shins isn't allowed to shoot.

>>96479733
I see. Human wave it is.

>>96479605
I think they have some plain looking gun guys.

>>96479596
That's actually a Heterodoxist Mech army

>>96479699
>The majority of legions do not get any benefit to hit and wound rolls involved with damage, the only thing that actually matters.
You’re actually making this laughably easy. That line alone proves you don’t understand shit about the game if all you value or care about is +x to hit or wound. How about playing a game before vomiting your ignorance online, you brain-dead clown?
And calling people ‘WAACfags’ doesn’t change the fact you’ve got zero argument. You’re just a bitter idiot trying to polish a turd and convince everyone it smells good.

>>96479805
>Completely fails to understand the point initially
>Doesn't have a counter, says it's "not an argument" instead

Wow, DAfags really are retarded. Must be all the dicks they enjoy.

I wish there were more rapiers and more funny faction specific rapiers.

Mechanicum rapiers with volkite and darkfire. Custodes rapier with adrathic destructor rapiers, ruinstorm rapier with a big pooper.

>>96479828
>quad shrapnel cannon rapier
Yes

>>96479828
None of those make any sense. Why would the mechanicum use rapiers, that's what myrmidons, thallax, and Automata are for, or if all else fails, delegating it to the skitarii (militia). Custodes and Daemons are both literally antithetical to static artillery. Hell, even for marines it doesn't make any sense, why are you using a superhuman to man a stationary gun

>>96479709
>>96479733
or score, which is huge

>>96479777
They're such a non-specifically evil evil dwarf army that it seems like a pretty versatile model range. Theyre not overly chaosy and arent learning crazy hard into a particular design element like most aos armies are.

>>96479538
Ah, my bad I thought you were the first anon still white-knighting DA’s trait and I got caught up in the banter. Didn’t realize you were coming in fresh and actually asking geniune questions.
Fair point on detachments not being much of a limiter outside of smaller games, and yeah, DA’s units are a very mixed bag. Honestly, I agree with you. Companions I found are very good and currently the best thing going for the DA, Cenobium being stuck without Vanguard is weird, but lacking vanguard isn't such a massive drawback I thought it was. Scoring points on objectives is easier than getting a charge and clearing an objective. Interemptors… yeah, they’re overpriced suicide flamers.
So yeah, sorry: I wasn’t aiming that heat at you.

>>96479871
For the last point, why wouldn't they? They have better aim, are more durable, are better trained, are already integrated into the command chain and legion culture, etc. Are they supposed to land a hundred-marine army and then six regular guys to man the rapiers? And that's before considering that half the legions looked down on humans and it'd lead to situations like not giving tnem support when needed, or starting shit when the rapiers fire danger close, etc

>>96479882
I feel like a flaming brass bull is pretty chaos-y.

>>96479596
If you were doing an evil ass militia army that artillery piece would be a sweet artillery battery.

>>96479871
>Why would space marines use rapiers thats what HSS, Predators and Vindicators are for, why would solar aux use rapiers, thats what leman russses and sentinels are for, why would militia use rapiers thats what artillery batteries and heavy weapons squads are for.

Just give everyone rapiers.

>>96479820
There it is again: zero counter, just parroting the same braindead ‘DAfag’ line like it magically wins the argument. You keep crying that I ‘don’t understand the point,’ but the truth is I already made my point. You just refuse to see it, or you’re too dim to understand it: that I don't know. All you’ve got is playground-tier slurs and projection. That’s not an argument, that’s you flailing because you know you’ve got nothing.
You call me retarded while you’re the one drooling out the same one-liner like a lobotomized parrot. The only thing you’ve proven is that you can’t defend DA’s garbage trait without hiding behind dick jokes and bad faith which makes you every bit as pathetic, irrelevant, and embarrassing as the trash rule you’re desperately clinging to.
And since you're that much obsessed with dicks: stop clinging to GW’s cock like it’s going to magically give you a real argument. White-knighting them this hard won’t earn you a prime subscription to Valrak's youtube channel you budget-tier Reddit troll with brain damage.

>>96479910
There are 100 billion planets in the milky way galaxy at the lowest estimates. If we assume 0.1% of those are habitable by humans, that's 100 million planets. If we assume only a quarter of those survived the old night within intact human population, that's 25 million. If we assume 80% of those joined the imperium without a fight, that's 5 million planets. If we assumed that of the resistance, 80% was handled by non-astartes forces, that's 1 million planets brought into compliance by astartes.

At the height of the great crusade there are about 2 million astartes.

WHEN YOU HAVE TO BRING 1 MILLION PLANETS DOWN IN 200 YEARS WITH AN AVERAGE OF 2 MARINES PER PLANET, WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU WASTING THEM ON STATIC GUN EMPLACEMENTS JUST BECAUSE "oh they shoot as well as highly trained humans"

Ok, the DA trait is useless.
HOWEVER the DA get some of the best detachment selections full of Amazon Prime Ground Advantages.
If you fail the army-building mini-game then that's on you.

People seem to have an autism attack if space marine armies are not "lore accurate" but does that apply to knights? Do people expect them to be painted like the predetermined houses or do people treat them like a fake faction and paint them however they like just like in 40k

>>96479998
Only certain marines and custodes are held to color scheme autism, everyone else is do whatever the fuck you want

>>96479998
They're were like a billion knight houses in the GC/HH but very few survived. That said, real chads would play something like the sisterfucker house (Devine)

>>96479998
saturnine is a mistake

>>96479997
Seriously, you can tell DA fags are whiny retards because they keep trying to portray themselves as not only bottom of the pack, but worst then word bearers, which is so fucking wrong I can't help but laugh. The DA trait may be the worst in game as written, but when you include their detachments, wargear, and units they're like bottom-middle pack. The DA are written like an army who were nerfed for being over the top last edition. The word bearers are written like an army that was made to be unplayable out of spite. Legion trait, wargear, upgrades, units, characters, gambit, detachment. Literally everything about them is designed to be dogshit and unfun to play. The DA players attempts to portray word bearers as better off than them is what makes them lose all sympathy lol.

>>96479997
Fair enough, I think we can agree the DA trait itself is useless. Where I differ is on how much those detachments actually matter. Sure, DA get some of the better options, but that’s part of the same army-building puzzle every legion deals with and plenty of others also have detachments that offer prime benefits in less obvious slots. The real difference is DA players have to work harder in the list-building stage just for a chance to even the playing field. It’s not free power being handed to them.
Build well and it helps smooth out their inferiority, but it doesn’t change the fact the core trait itself still brings nothing to the table.

>>96479985
First off, don't try to make sense of numbers in sci fi, writers are always off by orders of magnitude. Second, marines are supposed to be all about maneuver warfare and decisive strikes, they don't peraonally go base by base conquering planets, they participate in the oneor two most important battles and then move onto the next llanet and let the normies clean up.
This "decisive strike" mindset means you want your soldiers to carry out all of your orders aa fast and effectively as possible. Marines understand orders better, have trained for tgis kind of combat for longer than most humans live, aim the gun better, don't shit their pants when the return fire lands very close to the emplacement, don't die as easy when the return fire actually hits, etc. And that's before raking logistics into account. All the legion infrastructure is designed around marines. The armory has marine-sized guns, bullets and armor, the seats on the transport taking you to the warzone are marine-sized, the meals in the cafeteria are planned for marines, the apothecaries have equipment deaigned to treat marines. If bobby guardsman loses his leg, the horse tranquilizers apothecaries give marines would probably kill him insrantly. If the battallion gets cut off ans have to fight on for two weeks without resupplies, bobby guardsman will starve long before the marines start to get tired. So on and so forth. Marines can march for longer, can see further away, can actually defend themselves if an infiltrating force jumps the gun crews.

>>96479998
There's a billion minor nobles and wandering knights that paint their k ight in whatever personal heraldry they prefer that day

>>96479704
I think it's one of the Pyre Guards that assisted Vulkan in reverse engineering Saturnine and testing out new variants.

>>96480060
>DA players have to work harder in the list-building stage
Can you stop being such a histrionic faggot?

>>96480138
Is that...an alternate color scheme...in my HORUS HERESY: AGE OF DARKNESS: 3RD EDITION: SATURNINE
AIIIIEEEE SAVE ME EMPEROR-MAN I'M GOING INSANE

>>96480206
You really git buckbroken about alt schemes, huh?

>>96480052
Are you having a stroke, or are you really arguing against points you just made up?
My point has been clear from the start: DA’s trait is dogshit, and their units, wargear, or primes don’t make up for it.
I even straight up said WB are bottom tier. Saying DA are shit doesn’t magically mean I said WB were better or that they don't deserve a buff, you buffoon. That’s just your brain inventing arguments because you’ve got nothing real to stand on.

FROM THE ANVIL OF WAR

VULKAN
LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SAVE ME NIGGER MAN

>>96480185
If that slur is the height of your wit, then all you’ve proven is that you’re just some background noise.

>>96480343
if using a thesaurus is what you use to measure intelligence then you're actually just a midwit

>>96480286
I saw your points. I just know you're lying.

>>96479914
Nah bull idols aren't chaos specific

>>96480451
a metal cow is pretty bad guy if the emperor is god

>>96480428
A thesaurus? Imagine admitting basic vocabulary intimidates you. Sorry I use more words than ‘fag.’ Don’t worry, I’ll dumb it down next time so even you can keep up.

>>96480502
chatgpt write me a response to this fag

>>96480428
>>96480502
Kiss, make up and stop shitting up the thread, you screeching homos.

>>96480514
chatgpt kiss this fag for me

kinky

>>96480343
>>96480502
>doesn't play games
>too dumb to listbuild
>only mad because he can't WAACfag anymore
>tries to flex by pretending to be smart, but if he was he could figure out how to listbuild
Sorry you dived into the shit-trough and stuck branches into your skin, but the role of village retard is already filled (that was a King Lear reference btw)

>>96479998
You bring up a good point. Knight houses are varied, and then you have freeblades. Freeblades are obviously black shield equivalent but even houses get free reign. Probably because Houses are their own "parent" entity legion equivalent. So it's not just a subset of Hawkshroud, Terranis, etc. Still warp fuckery is a thing and a cruiser full of pre primarch legionaries, say approximately 3k points worth, could pop up in a warzone and get filed away under "alpha legion or some weird looking black shield band showed up today and confused everyone for three whole seconds before the killing began".

>>96480012
>spoiler
Seemingly so. If you don't have documented and still divergent in the heresy era, chapters you're not allowed to paint them slightly differently. Even then you'll still get someone who denies that even they existed.

>>96480495
No you see cow means emperor because cow is the coolest animal and emperor is coolest human

>>96480012
>>96480570
There's a lot of difference between "Ultramarines, but with green" and "Orange Dark Angels"

Quick question: do any bare marine heads from 40K work on HH minis? Are they too big, or have any 40K design elements that wouldn't work in HH?

>>96480634
Most of them arent excessively specific, but loads of them look like crap too

>>96480634
Same size, and only ones with the MKX face grille don't fit if you count those as bare. Primaris are lanklets, longer torso and sometimes legs or arms depending on if GW wants to accentuate melee poses or shooting. Hands, heads, pads, etc are generally the same size for non blister characters.

>>96479998
No. It really is just marine autism. Solar Aux, mechanicum and knights are completely free of it.

/hhg/ has three or more different mech players with different blue color schemes.

>>96478445
>Oh boy did they went from zero to hero
they were strong last edition too anon, but no one plays them.

>>96479379
>Saturnine Aquila
Of all the crappy new Sarturnine lore, this one is the most retarded.
Yeah, funny how the AoD sword praetor with primaris features also had the same ugly fat aquila never before seen.
"Saturnine aquila" my ass, the terminators and the praetor were probably designed as Emperor's Children.

>>96480758
Why EC you ask?
Because of this RT era art by Jes Goodwin.
The whole thing is another ill conceived and worse executed fake RT nostagia callback

>>96480627
No, there's no difference between those. If you're not using a legion's heraldry, you're playing blackshields. If you haven't noticed, every variant within legion heraldry is just adding more black or Grey elements, or inverting a secondary color to be a primary color. There is no "oh let me make green ultramarines" you faggots

>>96480768
The original RT miniature had no aquila in its chest, just somewhat skeletal "wings.
But who's infamous for having chest aquilas in 30k? The EC. So the new mini designer mixed both.

This would have been fine for a post Isstvan 5 force of EC with recovered Salamander's gear. But GW wants to sell it to everyone, hence the nonsensical new lore

>>96478060
chainswords and chain bayonets are the exact same thing now

>>96480758
>>96480768
>>96480792
You can keep pushing this gay theory all you want it won't make the palatine Aquila not double headed

>>96480619
a cow cant even stand up if you knock it over. a monkey is much cooler than a cow, and has common ancestors with the emperor which by proxy makes it much more holy

>>96480844
Monkey is okay, but milk comes out of cows.

>>96480864
Milk comes out of monkeys too dude you just won't seek it out because your soul is dirty

>>96480883
You drinking monkey milk while trying to make claims about holyness?

>>96480892
Im chugging monkey milk and stating universal axioms

>>96480842
you're missing the point, and giving the GW designers too much credit about caring at all about the palatine Aquila and not just making a clunky RT reference.
Not to mention the THREE child skulls in the AoD praetor.

What's an alternative to Nu-Kill Team that's still Warhammer? I'm trying to find an alternative to run as I've got a few friends who're interested in trying Warhammer, so something skirmish seemed less intimidating for new people. I was thinking either going with Heralds of Ruin, Necromunda, or just sayin to hell with Warhammer and see if they'd try Trench Crusade.

>>96480779
>There is no "oh let me make green ultramarines" you faggots
ESL RETARD ALERT
Aurorans are Ultramarines with green, not green Ultramarines, Orange Dark Angels are an actual example from a WAACfag who use to post here (bet he plays Thousand Sons now).

>>96480907
What on earth are the tanks in the middle, i don't want to crawl through solegends to find out?

>>96480995
None, there has never been a single iteration of small model count skirmish game that has served as a good introduction to the main Warhammer games because of course it's not you retard, the point of Warhammer is shovel more minis down your throat, why do you think they slash point costs every edition

>>96480724
NTA, but by just looking at their rule, it looks like they did get a huge glow up. And Vulkan is indeed looking absolutely absurd.

>>96480995
For noobs, don't be a try hard and just play current Kill Team. It's unironically a decent game. EAsy to learn, difficulut to master. Much better than current 40k. Its only con is the limited options in some teams.
But with the CSM legionaries rules you can play with pretty much all HH marines, even loyalists

>>96481028
>What on earth are the tanks in the middle
kitbashes, I think they might be like 6mm MTLBs from GHQ or a similar company with a big sci-fi gun on top.

>>96480995
All of the things are totally dissimilar to a main game. Necromunda is easy enough but its not exactly a game for newfags becsuse its mechanically janky and entirely designed around campaign play. Kill team is a game that is the closest to an "introductory" game, in that it let's people sample armies, but its totally dissimilar to an actual main game.

>>96481028
Don't think you'll find them there. They look like some small scale Cold War era tracked amphibious transport (possibly Soviet) minis with titan guns mounted on top.

>>96480540
You've stacked accusation that don't land anon.
But I cannot beat shakespear, nor have the knowledge to respond with an appropriate english quote of my own. You win this one. Well played.

>militia beastmasters go up to a 10 man unit, no animals required
>every model is a sergeant
>cyber augmetics allows every sergeant to take rad grenades for 5 ppm
>136pts for a 10 man rad bomber squad, ~200 points with a transport
>the slot rarity is effectively irrelevant because of militia nesting doll detachment shenanigans

Does it have legs? 8" range and just a militia infantry profile is pretty rough for actually getting to use the guys, but this may well be the only way to make beastmasters do anything, and nobody wants to get hit with 10 rad grenades.

>>96480995
Just play normal kill team with 30k models, I'm working on a legionary team with tortugabay

XII be like
>Recognized from an early stage of his induction as the least brain damaged member of his conscript-class, Legionary Trepanaton was shortly assigned to the 64ᵗʰ 'Unblooded' Assault Company's 11ᵗʰ Tactical Dreadnought Squad, his relatively intact temporal lobe qualifying him for service in the Legion's requisition of Saturnine suits.

>>96481215
Do this but bring 1 (one) animal as the squad mascot

>>96481218
where is this taken from ?

>can take an allied detachment of just 2-3 militia command squads, all with voidborne and grenadier bodyguards

cheap, they can deep strike, can take some better guns like laslocks, boltguns or lasrifles (or just dual pistols) have firestorm and can take a special weapon+standard+vox

adding in a commander is possible for the +1 armour and volkite (whole squad can rock chargers) but he doesnt get a jump pack which is sad

>>96481215
Yeah I hate that the actual beasts suck ass. I wanna run a retarded squad with a bunch of animals in my feudal militia

>>96481215
sounds orky to me

>>96481262
Strange they didn't give them any special rules to make their melee attacks do anything interesting

>>96481215

Neat tactic, yeah, although sadly you do have to choose between Legacy for BS4 rad nades and Voidborne to infiltrate a whole bunch of them. I think these guys are probably a great pick for the Arvus Lighter, since they cost basically nothing anyway so you may as well throw them into the enemy's face to wall off a squad for a round, and you want your enemy to provoke offensive reactions so you can get whole extra rounds of shooting from a disposable squad, not Reposition them back into a ground transport to dodge a charge, so no need for a persistent vehicle on the board for them to use. Bonus dirt-cheap suppression checks with your EW Field Guns.

Shame there's no way for them to get Implacable Advance, at least as far as I can tell.

>>96481228

A single crocodile purely to tank the first couple of wounds is possibly a poor use of points but is also absolutely morally correct.

>>96479388
It's a bombard.

>>96481215

That still works in-universe as a beastmaster squad if you model them flinging exploding scarabs or something at people. Go, my unusally explosive and toxic wildlife.

nothing is saying you cant load up 2 rogue psyker units in 2 arvus lighters with 2 psychic disciplines each (tained flesh) and throwing them at your opponent

what disciplines would even be good for this?

>>96481499
None of the psychic weapons or curses are good just spam biomancy and telekinesis

>>96481499
>>96481642

Conveniently telekinesis probably has the best one, since the telekinesis psychic weapon has Pinning 2, enough shots and a decent range.

I've been trying to figure out what to do with the rogue psykers myself, the base psychic disciplines this edition pack a punch but usually only when used to buff solid units, and the Rogue Psykers are mostly stuck using them on chaff. I guess yeah, Bio/TK with melee provenances to turn your GEQ into vaguely decent infantry, or just TK and treat the squad as disposable status guns.

>>96481648
>nuMk4
I want to believe

2500 pts of DA as a first build list to start HH, need some feedback
Praetor High Command: Terranic greatsword, Plasma pistol
One Apex Detachment, Prime Unit, Paragon of Battle
Centurion Command 1x Centurion with Jump Pack:, Bolt pistol
Prime Unit, Paladin of the Hekatonystika, Hunters of Beasts
Librarian Command 1x Librarian: Force axe, Bolt pistol, Biomancy
Master of Signals Command 1x Master of Signals: Bolt pistol
(15) Assault Squad 1x Sergeant: Pair of lightning claws
11x Legionary: Chainsword
3x Legionary: Power lance
Unit swaps Bolt Pistol for Combat Shields, Prime Unit, Master Sergeant
(10) Breacher Squad 1x Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Thunder hammer, Melta bombs
2x Legionary: Lascutter
1x Legionary: Bolter, Vexilla
1x Legionary: Bolter, Nuncio-vox
5x Legionary: Bolter
Rhino Transport Pintle Mounted havoc launcher, Pintle Mounted Bolter

- Ironwing Gauntlet [760Point(s)1Auxiliary Detachment(s)
Land Raider Carrier Twin heavy bolter
Predator Armour Volkite macro saker, Two Sponson Mounted heavy flamers
Kratos Assault Tank Armour Decurion Locus, Melta blast-gun, Autocannon, Two Sponson Mounted lascannon, Pintle Mounted heavy flamer

Auxiliary - Stormwing Muster [390Point(s)1Auxiliary Detachment(s)0Apex
(10) Tactical Squad Troops 1x Sergeant: Terranic greatsword, Bolt pistol
1x Legionary: Nuncio-vox
1x Legionary: Vexilla
7x Legionary
Prime Unit, Master Sergeant
(10) Tactical Squad Troops 1x Sergeant: Terranic greatsword, Bolt pistol
1x Legionary: Nuncio-vox
1x Legionary: Vexilla
7x Legionary
Prime Unit, Master Sergeant
Rhino Transport Pintle Mounted bolters
Rhino Transport Pintle Mounted bolters

[350Point(s)1Auxiliary Detachment
(9) Deathwing Companion Detachment Retinue 1x Deathwing Oathbearer: Bolt pistol, Bolter, Terranic greatsword
2x Deathwing Companion: Bolt pistol, Bolter, Power fist
2x Deathwing Companion: Bolt pistol, Cytheron pattern aegis, Calibanite Warblade
4x Deathwing Companion: Bolt pistol, Bolter, Terranic greatsword
Prime Unit, Master Sergeant

So what's the verdict on demons?

It kinda seems like they made them somehow more bland and the only change of substance is removing the generic LoW demon.

>>96481912
Don't forget the fucked ally restrictions. Any traitor marine list can just bring a trio of bloodthirsters now.

>>96481912
Placeholder rules for when GW is gonna sell god specific expansions to us. Serviceable enough for allies and summoning, bit bland as a standalone army.

>>96481218
Where are these from, the loremasters episode?

>>96481744
>>nuMk4
is that something to root for over "current" mk4?

>>96481744
I don't. GW has already ruined mk VI, mk III and mk II.

Somebody should make that reaper going door to door meme but with GW updating power armour patterns, I'm too tired to photoshop right now.

>>96481954
I have a bit of hope, if only because the recent mk4 characters and the HH3 illustrations feature a a version of mkIV with just better proportions and little changes

>>96481954
Phone posting so bit lazy.

>>96481984
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

>>96481998
The scuff makes it better, thanks anon

>>96481998
>not using the proper classic FW designs
fuck off

>>96482021
>>96481954
Fw models ate just better.

>>96481642
>>96481700
biomantic rage and divination for duellists edge 2 and go challenge powerfist/thunder hammer praetors, clearly
or pyromancy+divination for the silly 6+d3 attack modifier power and duellists edge 2

>First game trying out a dual gravis plasma cannon castaferrum
>It almost wipes out a 6 model thallax squad with below average rolls
Okay, the honourable boxnought might still be a little overbearing for how dirt cheap they are.

>>96482078
Tactical Leafblower Squadron, ready for action!

Trying to figure out how to get this dark metal armor. Nuln oil doesn't seem right

>>96482192
The secret ingredient is more Nuln Oil.

>>96482192
Photo seems pretty blurry but these look great. You vould look at tutorials for painty the FW cheme for IH, theh had thsi dark purple-green metallic armor

>>96481954
>ruined mk VI
I quite like the new mk6.

>>96481922
>Any traitor marine list can just bring a trio of bloodthirsters now

How?

>>96482192
use a black ink, or contrast paint over the base colour then work up any highlights needed.

>>96482213
It's okay, you're wrong but I forgive you anon.

>>96482078
Bullshit. If they ate better, they wouldn't have such scrawny thighs.

>>96479596
yeah just take 'the dumpster' provenance

>>96479323
Why do the writers keep handing Ls to my boys...

>>96478043
Why are they grey instead of red?

>>96482256
Its really inconceivable that they went from the Tamurkhan chorf models to this. Then I remember that the AoS team either doesn't care about the old world or actively resents it.

>>96482257
All Night Lords do is lose, they’re staying on-theme

>>96482348
The FW armored guys with the closed helmet were amazing, but haven't chorfs always looked like the new AoS models other than those guys?

>>96482362
The OG looks was more goofy and babylonian but these beardless rejects are a horrible compromise. I told myself I was done seething about AoS but they find a way to start me up again every other year or so.

reminder that he can still get a damage 2 attack even if he uses flurry of blows

>>96482228
Daemons have normal detachments now.
You can just take 3 allied detachments of demons.

>>96482384
Wait you're right, it's a strike group not another attack. That's crazy.

Seekers might be WAAC, but at least we get cool conversions out of it

>>96481954
Mk6 is literally the same, and either way it was the and remains the most dogshit armor so irrelevant
Mk2 is overall an improvement, new head design is way better, legs improved most from new thicker legs because the thin bands looked like dogshit, only loss is the collar on old mk2 but the techy muscle chest still looks cool
Mk3 is the only downgrade, nu helmet is cool but it's not the same and both options should have been included in the kit, and they needed to figure out someway to recess the back of the legs because that was actually crucial for the armor's feel

>>96482429
you could also just do finishing blow and make all the sword attacks D2 and try to hit 3 of them for the extra hammer attack

he's actually stupid when it comes to challenges

>>96482509
You are either blind or trolling.

>>96482371
>beardless rejects
>look inside
>all but one has beard
Anon you could have just said you're mad about femoids, no need to make it confusing

>>96482505
What are seekers?

>>96482540
guys with precision AP2 bolters

>>96482505
These may be cool but I wish it was either no drummags or ditch the tiny bipods (or just make them bigger)

>>96482540
NTA, Heresy era sternguard but they infiltrate instead of drop podding in

>>96478652
Dang.
I just primed my xiphon with grey. I guess I can go buy a can of white and go over it.

>>96482548
Jesus christ

>>96482551
>sternguard
Hnnnngg I still live in a 5th edition scoring Sternguard Pedro Kantor world

>>96482550
I agree about the bipods, but the drum mags are awesome. They remind me of that one cultist autocannon sniper in Astartes

>>96482558
>5th edition scoring Sternguard Pedro Kantor world
Don't remind me. Used to play CF in 40k, until GW absolutely ruined them and space marines.

>>96482612
Finally, someone who shares my pain.

>>96482659
Started salvaging models from my CF army, converting and painting them for use with my HH era DA. Will keep a few models like Kantor as they are, but the rest will all be recruited for 30k. Watching that army collect dust on the shelf since 8th edition has become too depressing.

>>96482714
God speed Crimson Fists chad. I believe you'll win many games.

>>96482425
You can't ally with more than one detachment of the same army. And even if you could with different dominions (and I doubt this is intentional) only the Daemonic Sovereign is something comparable to a Bloodthirster.

Really been wishing I had space for a 3d printer lately.
Or knew of a place where I could have STLs I own printed for me. Anyone in the Boston area here and know of one?

>>96482749
You too, fellow Crimson Fist connoisseur.

>>96482757
Unless you're trying to second edition troll, yes you can anon

>>96480052
But DA where not over the top last edition. They had nice units, but no legion ability you could use and their 2.0 "detachments" sucked hard that it was just better to play generic ones.

Plus if this changes were suppose to be a punishment for being too good, then why weren't Imperial Fists nerfed even more then DAs?

>>96482871
>why weren't Imperial Fists nerfed
NTA but john french.

>>96482871
2/10 bait, you should have started with the imperial Fist clause to get me invested before the bullshit hits

>>96482871
>why weren't Imperial Fists
IF have never been bad in HH anon, did you think it was coincidence Siggy was redesigned to look like a particular staff member who is also a vocal IF fan?

>>96482871
They were. The only legion that outshone DA was IF, which were the best army in the entire game. Stop lying.

>>96482885
At least IF no longer have 3+ invulnerable save storm shields, thank fuck.

>>96482906
Anon I don't know if you noticed but all the IF units got nerfed to shit (except for Templars, who were already shit), that was the joke

>>96482757
You can take any amount of allied detachments. There only restriction is it must be a different faction to the primary.

RAW You are only dominion locked if your primary detachment is demons. While likely an oversight from Timmy the intern, this does let you ally in multiple demon detachments with slannesh fpr example and still take khabanda.

Just like spamming 6 tribunes the prime slot in an allied detachment can be used for a high command through the special alignment prime.

>>96482923
Not hard enough, IF are still playable.

>>96482612
>Used to play CF in 40k, until GW absolutely ruined them and space marines.
What did GW do to them? The Emperor's Children got reduced to 300 marines at some point and yet they manage to recover and be a hundred thousand battle brothers. What could GW do to ruin a chapter, let alone one as beloved as the Crimson Fists?

>>96482384
Reminder he can land as many attacks as Grandstand grants him and he'll still only ever do one hammer attack
>>96482511
>you could also just do finishing blow and make all the sword attacks D2
Or you could use the AL gambit and a regular hammer, and then Seize

>>96482825
WTF, you're right. Thanks anon, didn't noticed that.

>>96482976
I think its better off to try and maximise sword attacks/output and get the free hammer attack as his hammer has AM-1 (still 4 attacks with it, but personally i'd prefer either 5+d3 or 5 D2 sword attacks, with the extra hammer strike chance

>>96482944
Based

>>96482955
The Crimson Fists' heroic struggle to rebuild their chapter and keep their sector safe against the Orks, which was a core aspect of their identity since something like 3rd edition at least, got resolved in one single small paragraph somewhere around the launch of 8th edition. Guilliman and his Indomitus Crusade stopped by, killed all the orks, handed over a chapter worth of pr*maris marines, and went on to the next chapter. The decades long valiant struggle of the Crimson Fists, fixed by a different chapter, in like four of five sentences.
Since then, because the UM "saved" their chapter, Kantor and the Crimson Fists are so thankful that they do anything any UM asks of them, most stories they are basically another UM company. It was character assassination on a level that would even make a BL writer blush.

>>96482942
it's to encourage you to build a themed army instead of soup

Allied Legion armies are much less flexible and much less likely to have Elites choices (because there's next to no way to take those in an Allied Detachment) or the fluffy Legion Detachments (because they're all locked to an army's Primary Detachment having the same Trait), but Allies can't be more than 50% of the points of the army regardless so if you're going to bring Kabandha you need 2.5k, and that doesn't leave you with a lot for Daemons if they're your Allies

you *could* bring a lot of shitty detachments with just Troops of different Dominions but it wouldn't do a whole lot of good, getting any slots other than 2 command 4 troops requires an outlay of at least 135 points (5.5% of the total in a pure daemons 2.5k army, 21% of the allied points left over after bringing kabandha as Allies); it's easier to just bring him as a LoW choice if you're not going all-in on theme

the fact that daemons don't have to hunt around for Elites slots at all (because they don't have any Elites choices) is the best reason to make them the Allies and not the main, and it's not a great reason

Did Forge World ever make any other style of arms for their MkVI (ones without the ring around the wrist) than ones holding bolters?

>>96478615
Did you resuppored the model after scaling down or do the original Supports work?

>>96482923
NTA, I heard IF got nerfed (especially Templars, actually), but I also know IW got nerfed hard. People say they are some of the winners of 3.0 because their trait is "Like the DA's but good", which isn't a high bar to clear at all
They said IW special Units are overcosted (like always), Tyrants are pitiful, and their Prime Advantage is "Literally being Worthless". And even on that they are surpassed by White Scars, who manage to be worthless-er faster.

>>96482942
I see, I was wrong.Though I doubt this will last.I mean the whole list isn't that good at all, but Sovereigns could be a nasty surprise.

>>96483087
Wait wha, why did it take so long for them to rebuild their chapter anyway when wa-
>989.m41
I fucking the 40k timeline so much holy shit

>>96482955
well GW wrote the 10th ed sm codex as if you were ment to play ultramarines, and practicaly nothing else. In a way there is a bit of a comedy to the fact that in the end Seth was right, and the with primaris most marines are just different coloured ultramarines.

>>96483087
BL works when you take it as loyalist misinformation and propaganda, anon. The CF fought for decades to rebuild their strength, and they did so with every game /Your Dudes/ played.
Guilliman adjudicated himself their victory to cement his claim for the throne, and is muzzling the chapter by giving them a "gift of strength" (and foreign influence) they can ill afford to ignore.
Do remember the Ultramarine's motto was "OUR PRESENCE REMAKES THE PAST"

>>96483121
Because in 40k:
>the recruitment process is a lot longer and more stringent
>they forgot you can harvest geneseed from living marines
>It takes a long time to replenish your numbers after being reduced to something like two companies of marines
>The Council of Terra are paranoid marine hating politicians who still demand a geneseed tithe but refuse to hand over some of the Crimson Fists gene stock stored safely on Terra

>>96483127
The Assassination of Gabriel Seth covered in 8E when Firstborn couldn't yet become Primaris. It was a Great Replacement, and the newcomers were outsiders. "Guilliman would makes us all Ultramarines clad in red!".
Seth had a conservative podcast, sold Black Rage supplements. The full works.

>>96483113
It's almost as if fucking everyone got nerfed because the point was to make the game even less lethal than second or something, and that was the real reason they stripped out all rerolls and most roll modifiers

>>96483087
Could be worse. My friend was Scyths of the Emperor player, since the day we read an article about their last stand at the Gigants Coffin.
What did GW do? The whole thing about their lore, being "fight to the death" hating tyranids etc all a lie, they were infact a chapter infiltrated by GSC, they themselfs destroyed the AA facilities at Soth, they couldn't even shot at tyranids (at best they could shot themselfs) and their heroic kill team of SotE survivours, loaded with deathwatch artefacts etc got stunlocked by a gene stealer. The chapter died with them, and got replaced by primaris. My friend packed his stuff and stopped doing anything hobby. the dude had, maybe still has SotE tatoo. That is like starting WS because you like bikes, and GW telling you that WS actualy hate bikes.

>>96483149
No it was more i expected the invasion of Ryan's world to be something like at m34 or at least 400.m41 or something and not FUCKING 10 YEARS BEFORE MODERN DAY LIKE FUCKING EVERYTHING, FUCK GW IS SUCH HACK WRITERS

>>96483149
I heard chapters cultivate geneseed in the bodies of chapter "helots" or something like that. More cattle than serfs, their sole purpose is to grow more geneseed capsules, and they aren't actually implanted any of the other SM organs.
Basically Handmaiden's Tale but for cucks. So, regular Handmaiden's Tale

>>96483150
I assume this is some sort of political comedy thing. I was talking about strickt rules. But maybe I am wrong, GW is crazy enough to release a WS detachment without bikes and bike characters to play it, so who knows. Maybe there was a podcast. If there was one I expect it to be as good as their streams.

>>96483161
Even I felt for Scythes of the Emperor players, and I don't know much about the chapter.

And some wonder why people still hate pr*maris...

>>96483165
that is what ad mecha do when they are ordered to supply genetic material for creation of a new chapter. Or at least this was the case pre primaris. nowadays you probably can put the gene seed (non BA) in to an ogryn and it would work.

>>96483154
>everyone got nerfed

>>96483208
Yes anon, losing the ability to automatically win any progressive scoring scenario on turn 1 is a nerf, I dunno what to tell you.

>>96483226
Awww I forgot to add the "Everyone? Maybe you" part. Now it's ruined :(
Idk, Lerneans ate good they're now at the base minimum they should have always been. What's this about a turn 1 progressive scoring nerf? :O

>>96483239
Raven guard lost their "yippee infiltrate all of their troops" and dynat can only infiltrate one unit, infiltrate is busted in heresy scoring because for some reason they refuse to put in a "can't score turn 1" clause so I regularly had games where raven guard infiltrated 40 tactials and 40 despoilers onto all of the objectives turn 1, scored 3 points, and then they were near impossible to remove because GW thought it was also a smart idea to give basic troops 4++ FNP and stubborn while also crippling all template weapons into uselessness

>>96483322
I was running siege drills in 2.0, and I found the game was over by the time I got my army on, even if it arrived turn 2, because the objectives were all already occupied by the time I could get to them.
I liked the list, but scoring turn 1 kinda fucked me.

>>96483100
Nope, they only did bolter mk.6 marines sadly.
That said, they are identical to mk7 arms other than the rings, so it's pretty easy to just cut them off, and you got mk.6

Also mk5 arms are literally just mk7 with a power cable.

>>96483090
Khabanda
3 x slanesh flying greatblade telekine sovereigns
1155 pts of laser destroyers and pinning 3 medusas

>>96483322
Massed infiltrate wasn't as powerful as some make it sound, especially with how busted Augur Scanners were. I know because I used to do that with the AL (RIP Dynat).
But I also heard lots of RG claim their legion trait was almost as bad as the TS because most of their chainsword or lightning claw users LA trait was redundant. Or unwanted, as was the case for then-Heavy type HSS
>I regularly had games where raven guard infiltrated 40 tactials and 40 despoilers onto all of the objectives turn 1, scored 3 points, and then they were near impossible to remove
Idk bro that also sounds bad

>>96483374
sovereigns are high command, there's no way to take them as allies

>>96483111
the scale was applied uniformly as i'm going the route of removing material in the abdomen so as to shrink things back down vertically. have just been using the presupported stuff supplied. 75% scale on the bodies and 90% on the heads

oh and the neck cavity as well as the belly on the core plastron is what's being bored out but i scoop into the 'cap' of the legs as well just to seat it all down all the further

>>96483473
Special assignment

>>96483473
>sovereigns are high command, there's no way to take them as allies
Reading the rules explains the rules.

>>96483489
Cool thank you!

>>96483522
>>96483528
interesting, and you can take this benefit multiple times?

>>96483575
As long as you have prime commands.
It can get quite silly.

Is the dream of Darkmech buffing demons a meme or is it looking viable?

>>96483614
Viable, but the caveat is the only good demons are brutes and sovereigns

>>96483602
so there's nothing stopping me from say, having my high command in my primary, turning the prime command in the primary into a high command, and THEN taking officer cadre to turn the prime command slot in that to yet another high command slot?

>>96483643
Yes, though honestly I don't know how why you would most high commands aren't very good

>>96483643
Correct. The only caveat is special assignment doesn't generate detachments and the normal high command you've used so you'll need a normal command or 2 to bring anything else but troops

>>96483648
but sovereigns ARE very good, and unlike most I don't intend on taking them as allies I main this shit

>>96483626
Haven't looked at the demons PDF yet, how much of a shit unit tax do you have to pay to take those guys? Also, I was looking at the Heterodoxist rules. I thought they were a high arcana, but it's actually a trait you can take for literally anyone for free? Is there any downside to making everyone a heterodoxist? It's just more choices for free? And if you want to lead a squad of demons, your best bet is a heterodoxist archimandrite, correct?

is there anything stopping me taking absolutely nothing in my primary detachment and having my army be consisted of entirely allied units?

>>96483655
Then yeah, 3 sovereigns, prime swarm to unlock a unit of brutes, maybe a pair of heralds for more brutes, possible argument to bring greater beasts too.

Is there a way to tell if HH 3.0 is doing well outside our anecdotal local scene?
I have to say, sometimes /hhg/ isn't trustworthy either.

>>96483659
Malefic blocks you from joining non-malefic units, so if you take malefic you HAVE to take malefic stuff. Nothing penalizes just being a heterodoxist (for now) though you can just take the arcana and still chill out with some castellax

>>96483676
not really. If you worked at GW you could probably do some large scale data analysis and look at stuff like google trends, twitter statistics, etc, but unless you wnat to put in that kind of work, just uuhhh look at what minor internet celebrities say.

>>96483667
I'd be tempted to bring a daemon prince or 2 (the hierarchs)

>>96483372
I was just curious, since I didn't pay much attention to MkVI early on, but could swore I never saw any assault or despoiler units for them, let alone a power weapon set.

>>96483664
Well only 50% can be allied and only 25% can be low so you need at least 25% primary.

>>96483659
>shit unit tax
Pretty nonexistent in a world with unrestricted allies and non mandatory choices.

But very little reason to take anything that's not a greater demon, prince(which is worse a than the greaters), brutes(the only good non heros) or the LOW.

Oh fun fact, if demons are not the primary you can take both samus and the utterblight otherwise it's only 1 of the 3 low.

>>96483374
>kabandha
>slaanesh
>no way to take more than 1 aetheric dominion per army
assuming you mean slaanesh in the sense of one of the dominions as opposed to aesthetic of models (although even then, why mix kabandha with slaanesh aesthetic...)

>>96473861 (OP)
Alright lads, which army should i start
IH, WB, ashen claws style RG or mechaniCUM?

>>96483722
>no way to take more than 1 aetheric dominion per army
Only if demons are primary, no limit on mixing for allied detachments.

Heedless slaughters only redeeming feature is you get big K.

Rapturous sensation gives you telekinesis for the 4+++ and light for reactions.

Putrid corruption is also fun for the exploding swarms, fnp 6+++, and biomancy heros.

>>96483747
Oh so all the sovereigns are in allied detachments? Yuck but I guess if there's money on the line at the 30k tournament, sure

Are there any points efficient ways to deal with Huscarls? I mean you basically need damage 4 minimum to have a chance at killing them and the only stuff that's not more expensive than them are venators.

>>96483694
>people who rely on GW access to minis/rules like HH3
>people who don't rely on access say HH3 is not very good
It's not a good look right now, imo

>>96483697
Yeah mk6 was the smallest set they did.
Mk5 at least got bolter pose and assault squads.

I guess mk6 is so similar to 40k releases they just didn't bother doing more.
That said, owning the fw mk6, they are a lot nicer than plastic mk6, although the differences are subtle.

>>96483773
Keep all your units 6" + (5" x remaining turns)away from them

>>96483857
What if they're on the center point?

>>96483716
I just looked at the list, the tax would be 1 command guy per 2 brutes units right? (shock assault detachment). Can squeeze one more in with the prime advantage.
>Desecrators
Fuck me, here I was hoping you could at least include some reliable Line. You lose Desecrators if a robo-pope joins a squad, right? Then again maybe you don't want your brutes just standing on objectives twiddling their thumbs

>>96483742
>ashen claws style RG
The grey armor with red and white accents is peak. And you have an excuse to use more of the things Corax was too sissy to use. Dark Furies in this scheme would go hard too.

>>96483900
Yeah I'd probably go a herald to boost the wp of a brutes blob and a sovereign to be a beatstick

>>96483876
Unless it's a progressive scoring centrepoint, ignore them.

>>96483950
Yeah that's not the answer I wanted but I'm afraid it's the correct answer. Fuck me running man, should've shot em with my Cerberus instead of trying to bait them into charging my melee guys.

>>96483984
The real problem is when those units fly on turn 1 and get to be deployed into mellee so they've already made points back.

Otherwise continually cucking them from an actual combat is 100% the way to go

>>96482021
These guys all skipped leg day

>>96483742
I like both my IH and WB's, go with iron hands if you want to focus more on armour and shooting, and adding in RG and mech allies would be thematic so it would easy to branch out to them in the future.
Go with Worb bearers if you want to be evil and be more melee focused with hoards of anoying to move troops.

>>96483984
Don't forget they can't set up into company and bypass overwatch/volley. They get 1" and you have to be more than 1" from enemy models when moving normally.

Do we have a libers epub available anywhere, or just the photo pdfs?

>>96484125
>>96484125
>>96484125

My group has been meaning to get into 30k, started painting one of my myrmidons