Thread 96493857

Being the "common unimportant adventurer" doing random treasure hunting is fun and all but it never gives me the same hype as being a very special guy with relevant ties to the major events in the setting.

>>96493857 (OP)
The best is starting out as the former and becoming the latter

>>96493868
It takes a lot of time to do that and if you're not playing weekly it's a drag. More than once a campaign has just fizzled out before we can reach that point.

I'm sorry it doesn't "give you hype", and I hope you one day find either a game or improv activity that does "give you hype".

>>96493876
If your campaigns are fizzling out before your average joes can grow into something with ties to the setting, starting as chosen ones won't help because the games will just fizzle out before you actually get to do what you were chosen for.

>>96494048

Not really, the second type we usually end in 1-2 months of play, while the first type takes triple that, and that's if the GM feels generous.

>>96494071
>3-6 months is a long time for a hobby with my friends once a week
lol
Boy, you will be legit happier and grow as a person if you learn about the differences between immediate gratification vs long term satisfaction and then cultivate that capacity.

What's wrong with being some random human male fighter?

>>96494155
Not as fun as being a very special human fighter.

>>96493857 (OP)
>Being
You aren't being them, you're playing them. Stop confusing reality and fiction.

Being a literal who that just pops up in an expensive and lived in fantasy world is underwhelming but you don't have to be the center of the universe to have a fulfilling session. Consider a campaign where the players are lesser nobles, inexperienced disciples of a noted arch mage or religious pilgrims all having ties to the world they inhabit while not being the literal centerpiece of the universe.

>>96493876
Sucks to suck. My last campaign ran for three and a half years. Only missed a few sessions due to one player's mother dying of cancer.

>>96494372
This isn't reddit. Stop taking minor semantics and blowing them up into an issue.

>>96495579
O...kay?

>>96493857 (OP)
That's fine, OP. Everyone is different. Me, I enjoy starting out as a relative nobody instead of some 'chosen one' because it lets me build up my character's importance primarily through merit and I can take pride in every single accolade I collect, but I understand that's just a preference.

>>96494155
You're basically a useless NPC. Your skillset is quite literally that of a low level NPC. Any low level NPC can hit things with a pointy stick. In 3.5 it's the NPC class because it doesn't actually have any unique features. It just gets more feats.


>>96493857 (OP)
Campaigns need goals to move the players forward beyond "kill shit get loot". Even if they start as nobodies, the party should be viewed by the GM as inherently more important than any NPC. Even if their characters don't know it, those characters should be the linchpin to the conflict of the game. If they aren't, you've failed as a GM.

>>96494372
Semantics. Players PLAY the ROLE (ROLEPLAY) of their PCs. Ergo, to an extent, they are their PCs because their PCs cannot do anything without the players' direct control.

>>96495903
Except a chosen one isn't chosen unless they have merit. Also lol, the image you posted is literally a chosen one narrative.

>>96496333
I know anon, that was the point of me posting that image, because of the discrepancy of that particular show's narrative attempting to pass off a "chosen one" type character as a typical average everyman through a ridiculously cheap trick via using the "randomization" feature to disguise how he is very blatantly designed after the default character model in the game. Doy.

>>96495683
But dont you think hes SMART now? You can see his BIG BRAIN because of the pompous pedantry.

>>96493857 (OP)
> Tranime pic
> Faggot trash opinion and post
Peanut butter and jelly

>>96496529
>because of the discrepancy of that particular show's narrative attempting to pass off a "chosen one" type character as a typical average everyman
That's just Japanese media in general. And, hilariously, what all the faggots on /tg/ who say they want to play LE AVERAGE HUMAN FIGHTER" actually want. They want the world to bend to their will, anyone who says they want to "succeed due to wits and grit" means "I want the setting to bend over backwards just to let me win even though as a glup shitto character I should be dead".

>>96496554
Anon, what the fuck are you talking about?

>>96496549
Enjoy doing the same copypaste dungeon crawl for the next ten levels, since that's as complex as your brain can handle.

>>96496554
Further, that mindset is baked into the culture of tg itself. Look how many people run around decrying other people as normalfags like they are some chosen one NEET savior. Motherfuckers out here feeling smug because their social media website is slightly more niche than facebook. Shit is embarrassing for everyone involved.

>>96493857 (OP)
I play a normal guy who suddenly becomes tied to the major events of the setting

>>96493857 (OP)
You sound like a bad player with a worse GM and you probably suck each other off while smelling like absolute ass

>>96493857 (OP)
That's why you take the best of both worlds: you play a normal guy with relevant ties to the major events in the setting. Be a prince, a scholar, or a merchant lord. In a fight you'd probably lose, but you have the influence and know-how to sway the plot and change the setting.

>>96494155
they're fucking boring to play

>>96493857 (OP)
>>96493868
The best is starting out super special and becoming a common unimportant adventurer.

>>96496554
>They want the world to bend to their will,
This. It's more about aesthetics than you might think. The world should present as gritty and unforgiving, the character should be an anti-hero mercenary who's studying hema-style sword treatises, not anime powers, like Bronn or the Mountain in game of thrones and it should appear as though they are constantly in mortal danger and just barely manage to manage to stay alive where random brigands could take them down with a lucky swing. But just how the authors of those stories wrote that they should survive, the player wants to actually be guaranteed to succeed and dunk on others like in those shows, they don't actually want an osr dungeoncrawl where they actually had to roll to survive the 50/50 death pit. They just want the narrative of "Wow they really could have died there" when th dm in reality never put that in that real situation mechanics-wise.

At least that's how it was when I ran for two dudes who loved GoT and played stuff like Mount and blade (which by the way has the same dynamic, presents as gritty and lethal, but when you get good at it you're basically a one man machine mowing down armies)

>>96493857 (OP)
that must be pretty sad since you have no games and can't fulfill either fantasy :/

>>96493857 (OP)
The solution is yet again to be found in Tolkien.
Even a nobody can get tangled up in the larger machinations of the world.
But have some patience
My players started out as regulars at a bar for former soldiers
They did get tangled up with relevant characters but as pawns at first.
Now 6 IRL years later they’re movers and shakers, they fought alongside kings and the pope and their council of respected, they inherit positions of important orders and are tangled up in the world and its inhabitants
Never once were they super special beyond what they made of themselves.
And no this is not a super grimdark Mudcore campaign.
They just wrote their own high fantasy saga rather than inheriting a role

>>96493857 (OP)
.... ok?

>>96493868
If that suits you, then fine

>>96494155
Two things:
1) It's a statblock, and those are always boring as fuck
2) It actively incentives players to not give a fuck
And I can predict with certainty that you are going to bring up some retardation in tune of "b-but muh friegshiet" as a counter, which means you also have a victim complex.
A character who exists solely for the sake of placeholder is always going to be boring, and that's the definition of human male fighters. It's the "I don't know, but I want to play" type of deal.
And don't worry. People do this shit with other pre-sets, too. I'd actually argue that Gimli Clone #7281 is even worse, because that's someone aware that people are going to eye-roll at their utter lack of effort, so they cover it by making their flat nothing into a flat nothing dwarf.
>b-but how does it matter
It means you don't give a fuck. And if you don't give a fuck, why are you playing? It's a suboptimal build in almost every feasible game, so it's not even about muh build autism, it's deliberately flat nothing as a character ("oh, i'm just a guy" - and it usually also means playing a self-insert, too) and it's fucking annoying how bunch of idiots think they are making some sort of political statement or owning some imaginary boogeyman, because they deliberately made flat nothing character.

>>96499146
And to continue:
I run open tables each Wednesday in the local library. Every time char-gen is part of the today's game (meaning the system is simple and/or non-complex one or char-gen is fast as fuck) and the game is fantasy (no matter how boiler-plate), and people make a human male fighter, I already know what I'm up to:
A silent Bob who will spent the next 4-6 hours scrolling on his phone under the table, paying minimal attention to the game, never engaging with the scenario and being also absent-minded during combat. They aren't going to contribute to the group, and they aren't going to engage with the game, either. If they will utter more than 100 words through all that time, it will be some off-topic or a chat during a break.
So why even showing up and taking up a slot?

>>96498382
Fall for grace is Kino.

>>96493857 (OP)
This is why we should have never started handing out participation awards

This is my fav depiction of an "adventurer" where the artist explicitly states that that is the intended profession of the art.

>>96499511
quit paying bots to spam trash art and get a fucking life puckee

>>96499492
Yanks are about 5 generations too deep into that shit, and have been exporting this cancer for at least three.

>>96499146
>>96499176
This guy plays games, and gets it.

Human male fighter, sword and board used to be a hallmark of player skill. It was a demonstration the player didn't need fantastic creatures, magic, or great prophecies to make a cool character.
That they could sit down and make a neat, tidy, small and solid individual without all of that, who would still be interesting and an engaging character.

Unfortunately, midwits and neo-edgelords saw that and thought "Human male fighter, sword and board, is what superior players play" and made stripping out anything unusual, fantastic or vaguely unique from their PC's their entire identity.
Without realizing that it's those traits beyond mere class or race that make those characters so compelling.

Playing a human fighter is fine enough. But avoiding giving them any uncommon aspects, beliefs, ideas, goals, dreams, motivations or quirks beyond the absolute basics is genuinely terrible advice for making any kind of character.

Personally I treat it as just as much of a red flag as a Donut Steel PC.

>>96498417
If you are invested and in behind your character, you'll be wanting that character to win.
Plain and simple.

>>96500835
>you'll be wanting that character to win.
Seems easier to just write your own story then, since you won't have the dice or a GM to contradict your narrative of always being the bestest ever

>>96500835
This.
Scrooge McDuck is a human male fighter.

>>96494155
If you aren't the type of autist that dreams of being faceless, it is super lame and uninspiring.

>>96500835
>If you are invested and in behind your character, you'll be wanting that character to win.

There is a difference between "wanting to win" and "assuming you will win."

>>96498520
>6 years later

>>96493857 (OP)
You sound like a bad main character player.

I don't see the obsession of starting from the bottom every single time, have you even tried to play in any other form before shaking your head like a petulant child?
Tenra Bansho Zero it's played like this and it's a fucking great game.

>>96503542
Love that game. One of my players decided his Kongohki was going to basically act like the protagonist of a mecha anime, and he enjoyed ripping and tearing evil monsters apart while spouting hotblooded catchphrases.

>>96493876
>It takes a lot of time to do that
dumb zoomer faggot

This is the result of you having poor creativity and a lack of confidence in yourself, relying on the GM to supplement your own lack of effort with forced setting relevance.

>>96500835
In my limited time playing DND, the only characters that caused problems were this archetype. I never got the donut steels or the weirdos but my group has actually fallen apart because several group members submitted blank human male fighter sheets and refused to budge RP wise when the DM prodded them or when the DM prompted the good faith players to act out a scene with them. they probably hit the DM’s wits end when they all were silently huddled around a tavern saying nothing, he finally packed it in and never came back after that session. poor fuckin guy. i think that experience killed his love for the game.

>>96494138
the difference is that immediate gratification is objectively better in all ways andb has no downsides

>>96494155
it's gay as shit and makes you a cuck

>>96495683
No. Do as you are commanded or I'll kill you.

>>96495903
get a load of this FAGGOT taking pride in imaginary make believe tea party lmaooooo

>>96499146
>It's a statblock
Everything in the game is retard

>>96496333
nah kill shit get loot is the goal of every game storyshitter

>>96496599
the way I play is good and the way you play is bad :)

>>96501585
Duck...

>>96496862
not really, i actually am better than everyone else

>>96497193
no

>>96499146
found the tranny that plays tieflings KEK

>>96500835
lol desperate samefag

>>96505920
>said the shitposter who has never actually played a game in his life

>>96506985
seethe :)

>>96505927
The players aren't statblocks

>>96507816
>using emoticons
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting

>>96494155
You get solo'd by a lich

>>96507835
yeah they are

>>96507838
seethe :)

>>96503097
One of my groups is 80% wallpaper that refuses to commit to any course of action, and someone has to step up and be the protagonist. I will stop acting like THE main character when anyone else acts like A main character.

>>96507816
You don’t need to seethe, anon

>>96493929
>reddity passive agressive tone
Rope yourself, faggot.

>>96493857 (OP)
Your need to "be" someone very special and important in a fantasy game stems from unresolved feelings of inadequacy.

>>96508255
seethe :)

>>96508182
Why did they join a game they had no interest in participating in?

>>96508372
your imagination is trash lol

>>96508666
Quiet, Satan.

cope

There's this single word poster on /tg/ that really has some kind of issue about people having badwrong fun. His posts read like a person with Tourette's screaming random words over and over.

idg the hatred for wanting to be special in a tabletop RPG. There's nothing wrong with it. Though I also think there's nothing wrong with >human male fighter either.
As long as you aren't a niggerfaggot you're going to be OK.

>>96509712
There’s nothing inherently wrong with it. It’s the attitude of superiority and entitlement often paired with it that gets people riled up. When someone says “I’m the main I character”, it does ore than just states one’s own importance. It also emphasizes everyone else’s seeming lack of it, or basically disrespecting them in favor of elevating yourself. That’s why people tend to hate the people who emphasize their characters’s “specialness”. Most of them become pricks when doing so.

>>96509768
Maybe it's just that I've never played with someone who has main character syndrome. Most of the time at my tables everyone gets the spotlight now and then, players are col, and no one thinks they're more above the others. Everyone in the group has their own brand of unique in the game.
Now if there was someone being an asshole and trying to one up everyone all the time then I'd probably have a bigger problem with it but no one in my groups is that much of a loser.

>>96509794
>Maybe it's just that I've never played with someone who has main character syndrome.
Be thankful for that. I did one time. I initially put it down to them being nephew to rpgs in general and not being used to the idea that everyone else is equally important at my table. It’s when they started writing stories about their character as a “chosen one” that they wanted me to infuse into the campaign that their obnoxiousness and self-importance began to start getting unbearable and only worsen from there.

>>96509854
*to being new, not nephew. But yeah, they really just couldn’t or wouldn’t get it through their head that I wasn’t going to pivot the campaign entirely around their character just because they demanded it from me, especially since I don’t do those kind of games

>>96509854
Probably a way to nip that in the bud early on. I would have just told them my game wasn't the game they were looking for if they refused to take no for an answer.
Either they'll learn to play ball or they'll learn no one's gonna entertain their shit for that long.

>>96509712
it's mostly a similar problem to railroading: it presupposes outcomes in a game fueled by much less predictable things (namely dice and other players).
this isn't to say a special player character is unworkable, just that 9 times out of 10 unless it's a That Guy story Hiro Protagonist enters as Random Pizza Guy before becoming The Special Savior of the World As We Know It.

>>96509886
Yeah, I'm definitely not going to pretend I couldn't have done better myself. The main issue is that I tried to approach the problem more civilly by talking to him and making it clear that I'm not tolerating that kind of thing, then thinking the matter was settled when they apologized and seemed to behave. Only for it to flare up again when they would complain npcs weren't giving them their "respect" or that they "deserved" stronger powers to reflect the story they had in mind, resulting in another "talk" and apology. And the other players didn't care since they just found his idiocy funny and he only ever annoyed me about it. It only became a point of irreconcilability when he fired a rocket launcher at a monster engaged with one of the other pcs in melee, then got upset people read him the riot act for that and made the lame excuse of "It's not my fault, they got in my way". That was basically the point I realized I was never going to get through to this kid, that it'd be a waste of time to keep being civil, and just booted him.

Frankly, the main thing I took from this is that I should have been much more of a hardass and just told him to piss off much sooner instead of letting it get to that point. I'm one of those nerds that tries to get along with everyone, but I think it would have been better for Mr. Self-important if I just bit the bullet and just did a hard limit "three strikes and your out" type of thing instead of giving advice he clearly didn't care to hear.

>>96510022
>I'm one of those nerds that tries to get along with everyone,
I really use to be the same way, still kind of am I guess but getting a backbone and being able to say no is a gamechanger.

>>96508658
They just want an NPC to tell them what the quest is so they can get ferried along on the next stretch of content. Well, fuck those faggots. I'LL tell them what the quest is and anyone who has a problem with it is free to suggest an alternative.

>>96509768
>It’s the attitude of superiority and entitlement often paired with it
People saying they only play "le male human fighter" always act smug about it

>>96510886
He wasn’t playing that, anon

>>96510997
Is not like playing that will stop you from going native isekai protagonist in the setting nyway.

>>96511036
Nah, if he tried that I would have just laughed him out of the room

>join low level, personal adventure campaign
>understand the world around me
>our decisions have reasonable outcomes
>build relationships, power, and stories from mutual achievement between different players

>play high concept world saving campaign
>constant lore dumps to understand a fraction of what is even going on
>no real agency, just wait for the GM to say what is important to do next
>due to the scale and vast importance of our characters we give little heed to other NPCs, we are already all powerful

>>96493857 (OP)
>>96493876
I don't see anything wrong with this. Short campaigns that last 6 to 12 sessions aren't that uncommon. Infact if you narrow your scope you'll be more likely to actually finish them.
If you bother listening to what self-important anons have to say then you'll just end up hating ttrpgs.
What matters most is achieving the vibe you're setting is out to emulate.

>>96493857 (OP)
The way I see it, as a GM, whatever impending doom I've cooked this time is innevitable, so players just throw average joes at it until one succeeds in becoming the "special guy" hero and stopping calamity, or they fail and the setting becomes a higher risk/reward FF6 World of Ruin kinda deal.

>>96506050
Yes

>>96496554
>>96496862
>>96498417
Hilariously accurate. I'd welcome 100 donuts steels over 1 gritty merc fighter.

>>96502597
What you want influences the game you'll want to play.
Don't forget the thousands of people who play higher level games almost simply for the power fantasy.
Personally I don't mind my characters dying in LGS games, but that's because I don't invest much into each at the start, which in itself is something of a red flag I admit.

>>96504991
Everyone's too embarrassed about the idea of being an edgelord, too LGBT, or playing anything with a whiff of Chrome Donut, that it almost never actually happens at a normal table.

The actual players you get are, imo; non-engager's, polfags (5'7 fat manlet insisting on the value of nazi-esque eugenics), unstable insecure women (ime women make either the best players at the table, or the worst), and the topical Human-Male-Fighter faggot.
The last of which, is basically just a modern edgelord, with no self-awareness.

>>96509712
See >>96500835
You CAN do it. But it's something of a hallmark of character generation skill to do it WELL.
And a lot of midwits have no idea how it's a mark of ability, or how to do it well, so they just make NPC's with Specifically no interesting features, no personality, no motivations, dreams, or beliefs. And will then spend good portions of the game being snide IC and OOC to other pc's/players for having them.

>>96511083
>Join low level, personal adventure campaign.
>World is GM's autistic homebrew medieval political wankfest with fifty-odd not-houses sitting in a not-democracy fighting to be the not-king.
>No real agency because he has twenty-odd named NPC's and DMPC's with sheets already drawn up, that are more powerful and can solo us all easily.
>Nothing has any consequence because if the GM doesn't like it, we get punished by one of said NPC's who will always be able to best us.

>Play high concept world saving campaign.
>Lore is based around trad fantasy tropes and narrative/philosophical/storybook concepts we all know and love. Additional lore added by players as much as GM.
>Almost no higher power or authority. Ultimate agency, and ultimate responsibility for EVERYTHING falls on the people at the table.
>Game becomes as much about playing god, building empires, fostering schools and worldbuilding a setting together for smaller games, as much as a game about people going places and hitting things.

I've actually played in both of these games sadly enough.

>>96512941
>fifty-odd not-houses sitting in a not-democracy fighting to be the not-king.
>twenty-odd named NPC's and DMPC's with sheets already drawn up, that are more powerful and can solo us all easily.
Your GM is a faggot for not making it so the factions are in such a delicate balance that, since the first NPC to publicly make a move loses, they need PCs and minor NPCs to wage their proxy wars for them, making it so PCs actually have the agency of choosing the winner.

>>96493857 (OP)
Actually it was kind of cool to go from "literal nobody" to "figure of destiny who has changed the course of history through his heroics."

I'm not going to fault you for wanting a narrative hook, OP. But I'm also going to say something - when you come into a campaign with a certain narrative to the character from the get go, one of three things is going to happen.

The first is that the game has basically been put on rails now. You have an arc that needs to be finished and therefore you more-or-less know how the story is going to end. You built the railroad yourself.

The second is that the game's narrative doesn't wind up lining up with your backstory. And so by the end of the campaign, your character leaves with their narrative arc unfinished. Your father was never avenged because the rest of the party decided that some other storyline was more important than your revenge against the Duke who murdered him.

Or there's the possibility for option 3, though this one is less common - oops, another player's planned arc directly fucks with yours or vice-versa. congrats. There's going to be at least one feel bad at the table as someone isn't going to see their character's narrative finished out.

>>96512941
>ultimate responsibility for EVERYTHING falls on the people at the table.
And if the first GM you described ran this sort of game, he'd put you in a shitty lose-lose situation and have every NPC hate you forever.

What you're describing is not a difference in genre or tone

>>96509544
cope

>>96509768
accurate description of human male fighters

>>96511083
second one's better

>>96513689
boring

>>96513788
cope

>>96513809
trite

>>96511083
DMing first one right now, used to do the second one, but learned from my mistakes! Now I'm actually having fun and God I love this grounded approach better. After over two years of mistakes and learning.

>>96513824
cope

>>96514078
The first one is the mistake and you're not fooling anyone samenigger

>>96515084
reported

>>96515091
cope

>>96501699
>the type of autist that dreams of being faceless
So every Call of Duty player?

>>96515141
What did you just say, cunt? I'll rip your fucking nuts off if you open your mouth again.

>>96514078
Keep at it and working on things. Your style never stops evolving and there is an infinite amount to learn.
>>96515090
You should try being a nicer person. Also the n-word isn't very evolved speech.

>>96493857 (OP)
>party consists entirely of edgy "freakshit" chosen ones with tragic backstories
>and me, normal guy
Ideal situation.

>>96512941
>yeah dude our game is sick! We run schools!

The people bitching about "human male fighter" either do not play games, or got cucked by a human male fighter.

I am running 2 ongoing games (6 players each), playing in 2 more (5 players each).

There are 0 (zero) human male fighters. Hell, there's only 1 fighter: a firbolg eldritch knight with a host of extra powers granted by the DM based on his backstory that pretty much adheres to every traditional /tg/ freakshit stereotype, so it hardly counts as a fighter at all.

Make no mistake: the problem players are still the caster freakshits, and the freakier, the shittier.

>>96493857 (OP)
I feel the opposite. I don't need to be a very special boy with all the hoes on my dick, I get enough of that in every video game ever made.

>>96515324
Looking at your art, all I see is the human Male Fighter MC and his band of creeps, robot bro is cool though

>>96493857 (OP)
Generally the treasure hunting is what you do between important events.

>>96515161
try not being a samenigger

>>96494138
>immediate gratification vs long term satisfaction
they are both great

>>96493857 (OP)
companies need to stop listening to faggots like you.

>>96494138
That's too long term, timepsans like that aren't for humans.

>>96520500
t. zoomer who can't even keep his phone off for 4 hours

>>96520579
dude, you only have 200 6 months, if I'm being generous.

>>96520594
And to use your time on this earth in a never-ending cycle of instant gratification? Nay. The game must feel real and the gratification earned. This is the core philosophy behind all game design minutiae.

>>96520731
There's a wide gap between instant gratification and spending far too much of your finite time.

>>96520879
Do tell that to anyone reaching for the ideal and see how they react. To all kinds of ambitious types like artists, athletes, leaders, inventors and scientists who made it to the top of their field, arenas and podiums.
Did they spend too much time on what they loved? Did they waste their years reaching their long term, hard earned gratification? Sacrificing everything else life has to offer just to thrive in one field. Life's goals.
Perfecting a tabletop game is a waste of time, sure, for an Olympic athlete. But to me and many gamers, it is an advanced 4-dimensional problem to solve, an ambitious pastime and worth sacrificing years to.
I can look back and see hundreds of adventures and all that they taught me.
In the end it's all about what makes you happy, gives you pleasure and challenges you in a suitable, individual level.
So tourists and casuals be silent or begone while the devoted debate.

>>96520966
No, you actually can't look back on any more than 200 adventures.
Probably only a dozen or so.
Because of how long humans live.