Thread 96495893

Wait a minute, so if "the Old World" is set centuries before Warhammer Fantasy Battles has black Empire troops, female Bretonnian Knights and Dwarf Warriors, does this mean some horrific regression happened by the time of Karl Franz???

Seriously how would they address this?

>>96495893 (OP)
I know your memeing but the most I can think is black troops can just be some people immigrated from araby a long time ago, dwarf female warriors were a thing but overtime there have been less females birthed, and I think bretonia doesn't really have anything that says a woman can't be a knight

>>96495926
If there was a logical explanation that'd be great. Unfortunately there's no such thing. The suits just got together with the danger hairs and wanted the setting to look like the DEI hired version of an American metropolis.

>>96496042
This is what I get for replying to meme posts

>>96495893 (OP)
>Seriously how would they address this?
by telling you that in Kral Fanz times, there have always been black and asian empire troops, female bretonnian knights and female dwarf warriors and ignoring any outcry by grogs who claim otherwise.

>>96496042
>2020s BMW
At least pick a good model

>>96496042
Truth nuke but this is /TroonGoyim/

>>96495893 (OP)
>Seriously how would they address this?
I don't know, man. I'm still playing Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 4e.

>>96495893 (OP)
They arent going to address it. They'll leave it hanging in the air like a fart in an elevator. Daring people to argue against it for virtue points in owning the chuds.

Seriously, we all know why they're doing it. They'll whine that you're bringing the real world into games when they did it first because you are a pleb and they own the IP.

The people that did it probably dont hate you. The people that pushed them to do it definitely do.

>>96495926
>and I think bretonnia doesn't really have anything that says a woman can't be a knight
Pretty sure there is. In the previous editions it was outright stated that some women crossdress as male knights because it's the only way to escape the harshly enforced gender roles in Bretonnia, and depicted it as a good asset for roleplaying.

>>96496546
I enjoy 4e overall, but it does get silly in a similar way. For instance, I was reading Sea of claws and had a laugh when I saw a scenario involving an ostlander man in port and his sailor wife, treating the whole thing like a completely normal occurrence. Like how does that work in practice? Wife goes out to sea for months pushing barrels and pulling ropes while the husband stays at home sewing? What, does the couple of commoners in pre-modern times just decide that they're not having kids, or does the wife just pop them and hand them to the husband before returning to sea? Are we meant to assume that the undoubtedly majorly male crews of illiterate, unwashed sea dogs all had sensitivity training and behave like gentlemen towards the women sleeping next to them during their weeks/months-long dry spells?

One thing that most people will quickly catch on when it comes to these products is that the writers in them seem to work on the assumption that everything works on 20th-21st century Earth standards.

>>96495893 (OP)
Blood on the Reik already set precedent for their being black and brown people in the Empire. Female dwarfs in battle have popped up here and there for a long while.

>>96496844
Warhammer world humans are not Earth humans. They are all soaked through with magic and mutation. Women in Warhammer can hold their own against men.

>>96495893 (OP)
I'm pretty sure that women cross-dressing to become a knight isn't new for Bretonnian fluff? They'll simply never get the blessing of the Lady since she can see through their disguises and doesn't approve.

>>96495893 (OP)
>Horrific

>>96497194
Or maybe they get the blessing of the Lady if they have nice big titties.

>>96497038
>Women in Warhammer can hold their own against men.
Fuck off with your revisionist nonsense.

>>96497262
So his source is your brain.

>>96496479
404 truth or thoughts not found in that post

>>96495893 (OP)
Because it's done by people who doesn't know any better, who thinks in real-world political terms instead of in-universe realities. Of the three thigns you've mentionned, none exists in my Warhammer.
>Blacks don't exists anywhere, so they have no reason to be. Pigmeys exists in Warhammer, but they're not looking like that at all.
>Female Bretonnian knights used ot be unique and intresting to RP, now they are the .Warhammer female Warrior Archetype' over a class from the more 'equal' Empire.
>Female Dwarf warriors can be found in the deep the Karaks or hidden in Dwarf Communities in the Empire, but certainly not allowed to roam about freely getting in danger. Even less taking the Slayer Oath.

>>96496844
Have you read the Horned Rat? such a horrible mess, it seems they were more busy putting down clever puns and inside jokes than actually doing somehting good. And everytime there's a problem, it's either go see the half nosed Dwarf or there some woman who comes out of nowhere and brings them the solution on a silver platter.
Also, lesbian-allured female general and priestess, because of course. Even the skaven's henchWOMAN is super competent and is a strong leader type. The Princess is suddenly now a clever politican, trying to do more, despite being referted to a political tool in a wedding come next book.
Talk about removing my sense of disbelief! The art didn't help, but those characters, those plot lines..

>>96497025
You'll note that the southlanders in Blood on the Reik come from a specific culture and have their own style of clothing. They're not just Hans Schmidt from Dunkeldorf who is inexplicably black.

>>96497980
I'm running THR now and it's fine. I don't remember any deus ex machina stuff. The lesbian general doesn't ever come up. It's not even explicitly stated, you have to read between the lines. Funny thing is that they glossed over Janna Eberhauer and she's been a lesbian since PBtT came out in the 80s.

They didn't have the balls to keep the line about the princess being a 'truly dumb blonde' but honestly if she stayed that way she'd be a very boring NPC.

>>96496844

Female warriors are stupid enough in the 21st century, but it's completely ridiculous in pre-industrial levels of infant mortality, which are likely to be even higher in a crapsack setting like Warhammer. Problem is that modern RPG writers seem to be hacks who don't really know anything and have no real interest in history etc.

>>96495926
Brettonia being insanely sexist and Dwarves coveting their rare women like treasure is very well-established lore anon

>>96498589
>Brettonia being insanely sexist
Well, GW clearly wanted to retcon as we can't have a good guy faction being bigoted in any way. but kept the fact only women could be magic users in Brettonia and probably with Kislev when we get a new army list for them down the line in TOW

>>96496042
That picture genuinely makes no fucking sense.

>>96498649
Thing is, everyone is gonna shut down any criticism about this if people approach it with the American culture war retardation of "they made it le woke". What you should actually criticize it for is "why would you want representation in a faction that treat their peasants like garbage to the point that they're always starving and all the other factions make fun of them for it".

>>96496042
...but warhammer fantasy has motor vehicles?

>>96498736
I mean, don't modern women basically just live in a Bretonnian society anyway? Knights are Chads, peasants are simps - do you see many women respecting the heckin' poor simperinos anon? No wonder they want to "see themselves" in a faction like Bretonnia.

>>96496042
I love that image so much. It calls out the bulkshit logic so beautifully.

>>96498996
So you should be fine to plop down a 2021 BMW with heated seats, right?

>>96496052
There's no meme. It's full of africans to push a message. There's never been any africans in any of the books in 20 years of warhammer lore up until a few years ago.
The only one memeing here is you.

>>96496479
It's crazy how this board's been infected by troons and fags since DnD became gay

>>96499063
They showed up in Blood on the Reik artbook as one person mentioned, and also in some really old Warhammer novels from the 80s, that mentioned some Southlands kingdoms like the Songhai, which is just an early modern West African empire

>>96499062

Come on bro it's just a came bro haha lol who cares it's just a game bro just have fun man come on lmao

>>96499081
Yeah, as africans. Not as a replacement for europeans.

>>96499062
No, but colonial armies aren't some modern structure. I'm sure the WWII axis has a very special place in your heart. You understand Italians used locals from the African colonies they had in their local armies.

>>96499081
Can you imagine them depicting a black character with tribal scarification? They don't have the balls. It's depressing, actually. They don't dare depict black people as being primitive, but that's what their precolonial culture is. So they have to present them as cultureless insertions with no distinguishing elements other than hairstyle.

>>96499245
They sort of did that with some of Warcry Warbands, which had some African tribal aesthetics, but it's easier to get away with that by saying their Chaos cultists and having multiple different skin tones on the official paint job

>>96499245
It's so weird, really: they want to be politically correct and not portray them in an 'offensive' way, but all I can think of when they 'put the African in the European armour, speaking only English' is how people native to wherever went to Europe/became slaves, and then had to get their Christian names. Like how Pocahontas became Rebecca Wolfe.

I mean it shouldn't be too hard for them to just do like Marvel's Black Panther and make everything look traditional African-esque, but sci-fi or something like that.

>>96498722
It's something realismtards throw out when they are faced with the idea of fantasy. A concept they understand just as much as history: little to none.

>>96498549
>t. stupid nogames who know nothing.

>>96498722
It makes perfect sense. Genres have conventions and suspension of disbelief is not infinite. If you're going to insist on putting stuff into a setting/game that's wildly, comically at odds with the genre's conventions, contrary to existing fluff for that IP, and just generally irrational if you think about it reasonably for even a moment, and further that anyone who objects to you doing this is some hidebound stuck-in-the-past old man yelling at clouds or whatever, then what you're basically arguing is that none of that stuff matters and anything goes "because it's fantasy".

And if nothing matters and anything goes, then I insist that I be allowed to be borne into battle by my trusty steed: a 2021 BMW 5 Series 530i with optional heated seating.

>>96495893 (OP)
Honestly, I don't know. It makes only sense IF it's like the Southern parts of the Empire. I do remember a story where a noble of Middenland was married to an Araby woman, it was very old novel. Hammers of Ulric iirc.

>>96495893 (OP)
By going full Warcraft doublethink retcon mode, "updating" the record on what really happened fully expecting everyone will just swallow it

>>96502168
One of the worst, actual retcons, which vexed me the most, is the "lol we have a lot of Steam Tanks. That about only being twelve is just an End Times Rumour".
Genuinely got on my nerves.

>Bretonnia
>extremely hierarchical society obsessed with everyone being in their place and fulfilling their rigid social roles
>except women who can do whatever they want

I'm guessing they didn't retcon the fact that male Bretonnians don't get to be wizards

>>96502376
Bretonnia having female knights out of the Open is soo stupid.
Only one got tolerated and she wasn't even a legit knight.

>>96496844
>For instance, I was reading Sea of claws and had a laugh when I saw a scenario involving an ostlander man in port and his sailor wife, treating the whole thing like a completely normal occurrence. Like how does that work in practice? Wife goes out to sea for months pushing barrels and pulling ropes while the husband stays at home sewing?
I don't know, man. I'm not thinking about that. I'm reading that book for quest hooks and mechanics, not to question the details of a Cathayan sorceress and her gay marriage wife. I'm just going to be giving my players big-breasted art off pinterest anyway.

>>96500678
Much like yourself, it seems.

>>96504101
Nope, you are just dumb.

>>96495926
Bretonnia does because they're Bretonnia and they're incredibly repressive about who can and who can't be a knight, except with Repanse.

>>96499089
But they're dressed as Arabayans? Also you posted a picture of Pygmies, who are not from the Southlands.

>>96499245
Proper African representation requires actual knowledge of its histories and cultures. The boards' DEI initiative has less than a shoestring budget in it.

>>96505173
Which goes beyond Egyptian btw.
They don't know who Nzambi, Shango or Ogun are, much less know from which mythology is each one, and which one is a God of which

>>96500678
Even Fantasy Realms have rules and ineternal logic, else it becomes nothing

>>96495893 (OP)
I don't think it's worth trying to wrap your head into a knot trying to fit it into the lore; just accept that GW put politics over the purity of their IP and try and avoid the woke dick they're trying to "progress" down your throat. Thankfully 3D printing has never been more accessible and WHFB armies are by far the easiest to find decent models for.

Took a detour from making characters and thought of doing some terrian, mostlly a Special terrain to use for that Lone tower mission, maybe add some flavour since it's against a Bretonnian player.
Would you go with the arches or no?

>>96506145
oops wrong place, my mistake!

>>96495893 (OP)
Good attempt at lamplighting, but black troops have been a thing ever since 2nd edition WHFB. They used to be a contingent in Lustrian Lizard armies, or could even by fielded by themselves. I remember some dude even making a flying pyramid (from the lore about them at the time) so they could have floated across the sea anytime in one of the many lizardman invasions, conqured land, settled down and mixed with the Old World population - it's what happened in the past in the real world.

>>96506026
This. You can't pick a period piece setting that has, ironically, grounded factions when it comes on gender norms, and then say "erm, actually women can be Grail Knights even though Bretonnia is Arthurian-esque and it's the most strict of the three human-led nations".
I get Kislev being looser on this and even then they don't have women on their army unless they got special magic.

>>96499069
Funny how I always catch a ban for posting this. It is deliberate, jannies are on their side.

>>96497980
You do realize the southlands are a thing, righr?

>>96499062
Yes. It’s a lost artifact of the old ones.

>>96509689
Jannies on /tg/ had been trannies for a long, long time. They ban any and all criticism of /trooncrusade/, an unfunny meme game that parasites off Warhammer... when you think nothing can be worse than modern 40k.

Janny is ALWAYS a fucking tranny. Only trannies (and jeets) are soulless enough to engage in such worthless work for fake internet clout.

>>96502298
That actually made sense because them not replicating them when they have dwarfs who can easily make more complicated machinery was stupid. Your average dwarf would rip a tech priest’s stupid head off for being a retard umgu who doesn’t understand their ancestor’s technology.

>>96510212
Doesn't make sense when the dwarfs don't have tanks themselves

>>96510212
No it doesn't because:
1)It's addressing the event that happens 3 hundreds of years after the Anarchy, where the Empire only has eight and it was reported to be twelve.
2)This is the Anarchy, where the Empire is exists in all but name and everyone has their own piece of the Empire. The idea that dozens can be made is ridiculous, especially with all their issues.
3)The Steam Tanks were made by Leonardo da Miragliano. It's complex and well made to the point Dwarfs(usually dismissive of human tech and known for being literally stuck-up when it comes to innovating their technology because of "old is good" like a Tech-Priest), are impressed.
4)Even when Leonardo was alive, the Steam Tanks were a headache to maintain, that improving them is a bigger issue and attempts to do so always led to another issue, like the time it got used in the Great War against Chaos, and the extra steam guns were more of a danger to it than itself.
5)What >>96510442 said. Dwarfs barely can improve their own tech, so the idea they can almost perfectly replicate Imperial tech they don't even have an equivalent, especially considering that requires Imperial Dwarfs rather than the Mountain folk to even consider thinkering with it. Even more so when you remember this takes during the time period we got many factions as the Empire suffered another fragmentation.

>>96509689
They probably got canned after 4chan went offline and the jannies got exposed. It truly was on its way to becoming reddit2.0 before that.

>>96511087
Didn't some of the Jannies just leave or ghost the 4chan admins after the hack?

>>96505173
>>96505463
The exact problem is having "representation" as a goal. Warhammer doesn't "represent" anyone, it mocks them and the stereotypes associated with them. If the Tribes of Albion can be depicted as dumb inbred retarded primitives that read like they were written by someone who watched two episodes of Horrible Histories about the Celts, then the notion it's necessary to have a detailed epistemological understanding of Ngubu and Labubu and Currywurry or whatever the fuck to write a gently-mocking portrayal of African tribes is farcical rubbish.

If you can't take a little Bri'ish Oomer then don't bloody well play British products you foreign poofters/HR department nonces.

>>96511249
I don't think you have any right to write that last sentence considering the current state of your own country.

>>96498549
The physical variance between an orc and a goblin is far greater than of a man and a woman, yet you don't see people complaining about goblins on the battlefield.

>>96497262
A man being able to hold his own against an orc or troll is far more of a reach than a woman being able to fight a man. (Something is both possible and has historical examples)

>>96501811
Warrior Woman isn't against fantasy conventions tho. The myths from which the fantasy genre grew has many cases of female warriors.

>>96502298
Anon the lore had been "we used to have more but now we're running our because we can' make new ones" for a while.

>>96511403
Warrior Women isn't going against reality either. They existed in the real world too.

>>96511600
haha

>>96512342
You are a lol, Gaylord the dumb.

>>96495893 (OP)
As civilization fell, continent spanning commerce ans thus travel and emigration fell off, smaller groups of ethnicities subsequently began dwindling away as the total population were worn down by war and famine.

>>96512376
lmao even

>>96495893 (OP)
You can go on wrapping yourself in knots trying to justify these things, but the fact of the matter is its more profitable to try to be as inclusive and inviting as possible. And this isnt some american culture war bullshit, its quite literally just focus groups determining attracting new fans by trying to be extremely inclusive is more profitable than staying faithful about lore written by a bunch of british nerds from the 80s.

For better or worse, anything made by a large corporate entity is gonna have focus groups and higher ups trying to make their new setting as marketable and appealing as possible. Some normie cis girl might be turned off by brettonians being a black comedy stereotype of medieval france with hyper arrogant, violent, and sexist warrior nobles that do increasingly dumb things in order to be allowed to drink an elf's bath water and become a demi-god. What she might find appealing though is a generic bad ass knight lady riding a pegasus and smiting evil while being best friends with elves. we live in a post Roll 20 society, where people who arnt asocial nerdy weirdos have become a growing minority in "nerd" spaces where we were once the majority. To add insult to injury, american right wing culture war retards have latched onto traditional games like a vampire, so now people feel like if they advocate for how settings used to be written they would be in line with the weirdos that feel like ww2 should have ended differently.

tl;dr settings will have shit retconned in the name of corpo greed and aligning with industry standards

>>96511416
Anon the lore had been "We used to have 12 made and now we got 8" until TOW went "that's superstition. We had loads of them"
The whole thing about there been more than that is a retcon, one that is contradicted considering the TOW specialist game goes back to insisting only 12 got made.

>>96512506
Your face.

>>96511367
>completely fails to address the crux of the argument
>still makes a shit point by comparing humans to greenskins

>>96511403
I'm under no obligation to engage sincerely with disingenous faggots. I sincerely hope your tiny winkie rots off and you die of dissentary you hateful creature.

>>96512565
The solution then is to be as vocal and confrontational as possible so that nerd hobbies are once again irrevocably associated with social undesireability. Instead of poo-pooing the angry autists with fatalism we should be supporting and amplifying them as much as we possibly can.

>>96511403
>>96511600
Issue isn't the existence of warrior women, it's their sudden normalization in a culture that previously was shown to be very close to a pre-modern europe, gender roles included, to the point that people in-universe don't raise an eyebrow at the sight women among the cannon-fodder of standing armies.

I mean, if you make a fantasy setting that is utterly egalitarian from the start then I'd have no problems, and there's no shortage of settings like that. But, if you're gonna grab a setting like Warhammer that thrives on having societal flaws as part of its identity, then why stop at sexism? Get rid of racism and xenophobia altogether, not just between humans but with elves and dwarfs too. Get rid of religious persecution and all forms of prejudice. Just go ahead and turn it into Age of Sigmar.

>>96512680
tl;dr I am a retard who plays zero tabletop games and smells like old socks.

>>96512573
Correction. It was the Forces of Fantasy.
The Almanack in question was made 5 days before FoF was released

>>96512573
>specialist game
lol
lmao even

>>96512942
Yeah that's on me. Still not wrong on this part >>96512786

>>96510155
Yes, far, far away that it would be months to reach via boat, so really, not important in terms of 'Old World' events.

>>96499063
>There's no meme
You just posted it.

> It's full of africans to push a message.
You fucking dipshits. Every god damn time.
IT'S FULL OF AFRICANS TO SELL FUCKING PRODUCT.
THE GOAL IS TO SELL PRODUCT.
Why do you all struggle to grasp this shit? You all need it to be some sinister conspiracy when there is an answer that doesn't require insane moon logic and actually reflects reality - GW (and every other company that does this) is doing it because it moves units. That's the ideology at work here: "how can we sell more boxes of warhammer fantasy?"
>There's never been any africans in any of the books in 20 years of warhammer lore up until a few years ago.
Tourist fucking post.

>>96513133
Yeah I'm sure the blue haired whales and literal fags in charge push their message to sell more because clearly DEI shit sells so well. It's a wonder why the most popular franchises weren't DEI in the first place huh.
>conspiracy
It's not a conspiracy when it's literally spelt out, you nonexistent NPC.

>>96513211
DEI is the least of the reasons Blackrock as a whole should burn in hell. You're sucking the shit out of your own ass-backwards priorities.

>>96513955
Don't try to change the subject, genetic deadend.