Thread 96525754

How do we stop it?

>>96525754 (OP)
By not playing D&D and not buying D&D products and not giving D&D credit for things it doesn't do.

>>96525754 (OP)
Find better players.
And avoid dnd it is a containment game nowadays.

I'm so high rn

>>96525754 (OP)
Fixed

>>96525754 (OP)
>joker rogue learned empathy and transitioned
What a character arc

>>96525827
Unfathomably based

Millennial bros, are we finally free?

>>96525754 (OP)
>>96525850
>Millenial DnD
>>The dragon says she burns villages because the pope has her dragon egg so we have to go kill him and finally put an end to evil religion(tm)!
>imma punch him!
>yes, lets kill religion!
>you have me axe!

>>96525827
Dwarf players truly never change

>>96525850
Millennial D&D was largely the same as Gen X'er D&D, although more war-gamey and less role-play'ey.

>>96525973
The most based.

'Generationology' is just astrology for men, thoughbeit.

>>96525973
They’re just autistic

By engaging them in polite debate at colleges of course

>>96525754 (OP)
You play the kinds of games you want to play with your friends. An alien concept to you, surely.

>>96525754 (OP)
You haven't played any games and it shows. I've been playing for over a decade at this point, multiple systems, at no point have I ever seen anything like the last image.

Try playing tabletop games and not just read posts from retarded nogames.

>>96525861
kino

simply stop reading Le Funny Storytime on Leddit and play real games with real people- this doesn't happen in real games at all. If it does, find a new table. Or, surprise, DM a game.

>>96525973
This is true. The first D&D character I ever made was a dwarf fighter. His hobbies included:
>Gold
>Swearing
>Hitting monsters with his axe
I have held all dwarves in fantasy worlds to this standard ever since.

Inauthentic. Boomer would be quoting Monty Python.

>>96526227
100% this
and funhouse dungeons were way more common than dragons

>>96525754 (OP)
This doesn't sound realistic. This sounds like a no-games shill injecting their political opinion into something they know nothing about.

>>96526227
No, that would be the gen x'er. Boomers would be rules-lawyers, and be extremely petty over trivial nonsense like grappling.

>>96526264
Nta and this is my experience but it's a huge toss up out there now. Generally pretty evident when garbage is going to crop up based on personality.

I straight up stopped playing with my two gay friends and their prog buddies but the moderate liberals, bernie bros, right wing, and conservative friends are all still great groups.

I think it's more a theater kid and attention whore thing than anything totally political. Theres just a lot of overlap.

Also, dont play dnd.

>>96525754 (OP)
Dwarves...Dwarves never change...

>>96526301
>dm has his boyfriend at the table
understandable, id drop those faggots

>>96526272
False, >>96526227 is absolutely on-point

>>96525754 (OP)
Is this actually how your games are?

>>96525754 (OP)
You can kill yourself, which will contribute to stopping the problem of shitty spam threads.

>>96525754 (OP)
>he hasn't run a game in which one dragon tells the party that they have two months to stop another dragon from bringing about the end of the world, in the middle of which one of the PCs has a one-night stand with a third dragon
Such a myopic view of the world.

>>96525754 (OP)
>overpowered npc that's probably a reference to a character played by the setting writer or gm previously, obvious fetish influence
>rogue desperately trying to avoid combat
>dwarf player referencing outside media
Last panel is most in line with old school play.

>>96525827
based

>>96525773
FPBP being ignored, as usual

>>96525754 (OP)
>Imma put muh dick in
Black guy on the right is my brother.

>>96527975
zoomer revisionism

>>96528677
>domain game
give me a ruleset somewhere between AD&D's "just make it up bro" and ACKS "here's a boardgame that plays itself"

>>96528677
>dragon doesn't appear until level 5
Difficulty scaling is FOEGYG

>>96528710
It's post-OSR, but Birthright maybe?

>>96528883
This is nonsense. Even Gary believed in being somewhat sporting.

>>96527026
>OP of this thread
>playing games
lol Good one

>>96528883
Dragon is incorporated into wilderness random encounter tables. It doesn't mean it *will* "appear" but it *can*. There's always avoidance rules to give PCs a chance to at least try to get away

>>96525754 (OP)
certified leftist meme

>>96530060
Hmm yes shallow and pedantic

>>96526115
>>96526151
t.people who want the last panel for every game

>>96531422
>t. illiterate moron
What part of "at no point have I ever seen anything like the last image" do you not understand?

>>96525754 (OP)
I can't help but notice that you are conspicuously missing Millennial D&D...

>>96528883
Explain dungeon levels, tryhard

>>96530060
>A leftist meme that complains about xe/xir faggotry
ok retard

>>96528710
BECMI companion

>>96532389
eww gross

>>96525834
You shouldn't have empathy for evil beings retard

>>96526272
Not trivial and understanding the rules is good.

>>96528677
lmfao

>>96528914
That is completely orthogonal to my post.

>>96532423
Not my problem anon, keep eating shit.

>>96532298
you're obviously lying, hope this helps

>>96532374
A natural consequence of the evolution of dungeons, obviously. The deepest part of the dungeon is where its organs are closest to Netherium streams.

>>96532439
>BECMI shit eater encourages others to pursue his hobby, while the feces falls from his lips

>>96525861
Wasn't that the plot of Ladyhawke?

>>96525827
based nonbinary dwarf

>>96532374
Dungeons are lairs of the most powerful inhabitant, everyone closer to the entrance is either a hired/enslaved goon (e.g. goblins, kobolds, trained guard animals), a scavenger, or an exotic pet/war beast. I wouldn't use linearly increasing dungeon levels anyway, except for having the number of monsters inversely scale based on their power, and having more important monsters (which could just be weak noncombatant bureaucrats) be deeper in the structure than their guards.

>>96532781
>weak noncombatant bureaucrats in charge
>implying monsters wouldn't believe that only the strong should rule
Come on, that should be like monsters' whole deal

>>96525754 (OP)
By punching zoomer in the face every time they start playing with "smart"phone during game.

>>96532874
I agree when you're talking about monstrous monsters who don't have a society outside of the dungeon, but if the dungeon is closer to a stronghold or outpost it would make sense to have some leaders who don't specialize in combat. Important noncombatants don't have to be leaders, just someone who the inhabitants of the dungeon don't want on the front lines. Orcs are described in the AD&D monster manual as having women equal to 50% of the fighting male population, as well as children equal to 100% of the fighting male population.

>>96532374
>he linearly sets up dungeon monsters
Lmfao what are you, a video game?

>>96532874
Bro your ant queens?

>>96533193
You're talking about a lair, not a dungeon, dungeons are much larger, open-ended environments not dominated by a single type of creature

>>96533237
Are guarded by the baddest mofos in the colony

>>96533387
How about you find a bitch and lair?

>>96526227
That’s much more of a gen X thing in my experience.

>>96525754 (OP)
____ ___ ____ ___ _______ _&_?

>>96532540
The fact that you are too obtuse, obsessed with purity and a dipishit even for OSR general and you are forced to post here your dogshit opinions is hilarious.
LMAO at your entire existence.

>>96533955
>NOOOO YOU CAN"T DISLIKE BECMI!
BECMI is garbage, deal with it

>>96526227
The day I truly realized I was old was when I made a monty python joke and nobody around me got it. It wasn't even something obscure from Flying Circus or anything. Full on Killer Rabbit.

>>96532298
You're clearly lying, retard. People who say "this zoomer Current Year leftie bullshit never happens," WANT MORE LEFTIE BULLSHIT TO HAPPEN. They try to gaslight people into thinking it's not rreal, so they don't see the changes happening right under their noses. You assholes are not smart, and you're not subtle.

>>96525754 (OP)
Start your own player groups explicitly banning this shit. Keep shit on the down low and shun normies like the plague. The most important thing is to hunker down and wait for the normie plague to pass so, and make sure you have something worth salvaging by the end.

>>96525754 (OP)
There's no we.

>>96525973
based and stonespear pilled

>>96532356
Drizzt dips fighter

>>96536664
>it is impossible for someone to have never been exposed to something that occurs within a subset of the population
>therefore anyone who claims to have never witnessed something can only possibly be conspiring against you

>>96532440
>NOOOO YOU AREN'T REINFORCING MY MANUFACTURED BABY RAGE YOU'RE LYING
Or, hear me out, you're a delusional schizophrenic looking for a boogeyman to fight because you're a pathetic, sad individual who cannot cultivate inner strength or be happy with themselves, so they have to find an enemy to fight.

>>96525754 (OP)
I love how the bruiser gets progressively more brown the worse the game gets.

>>96535793
>The stuff we took as granted is slowly becoming ever more obscure
You can't go home again

>>96535713
Good. You weren't funny for referencing something else.

>>96535713
God I wish I had players who didn't throw atleast one Monty Python reference every single session. I'm at the point I'd rather have a bunch of zoomers with nonbinary tiefling characters than these fucking cretins.

>>96538315
No you don't. MP was certainly quoted into the dust but trust me you don't want that.

>>96536816
Maybe I've been fortunate to still have people to play with but for the life of me I don't get how people can just stumble into games like this. Is this some pure internet game shit or what's actually happening? Like you shouldn't have this problem by accident.

>>96526105
>By engaging them in polite debate at colleges of course
don't you afraid being shot?

>>96525754 (OP)
If you genocide 400 villages, maybe the problem are the villagers?

>>96532380
If it's just strawmen and wordswordswords it's spiritually leftist

>>96539190
ok retard

>>96525754 (OP)
By not playing Dumbshits & Dumbasses and then by killing yourself.

>>96525754 (OP)
You don't, you let other people play their home games and you play the games and systems you enjoy.

>>96537494
>can only possibly be conspiring against you
Everyone who isn't explicitly helping you is your enemy.

>>96539611
I hate that there are actually people who think this way.

>>96526151
I tried to run a serious campaign in my LGS, and it didn't really work out because all of the players are as presented in the last panel, so my goal has pivoted to taking as much of the piss as I can get away with whilst trying to make sure everyone's having fun. Currently all of the NPCs are really confused about what these 'rights' that the newest PC keeps bringing up are

>>96537623
Nice description of yourself there.

>>96539230
OP like you never played any tabletop game and is stupid like you.

>>96525754 (OP)
>How do we stop it?
Don't play with retards and dickheads and don't be a retard or a dickhead. Very easy. If you and your group of literal voting age tax legal adults can't agree on a basic set of reasonable rules than you deserve all the horrible tabletop games.

>>96525754 (OP)
Lead by example. Run games with personal conflicts between characters, leading up to a BBEG.

Anon, do you not know how to do this? Are you retarded?

>>96543642
>Run games with personal conflicts between characters, leading up to a BBEG.
Fuckin' gross

>>96543654
I understand, mayhaps you would be better off not playing a Tabletop RPG then. You could always download Fortnite again.

>>96525754 (OP)
The dragon is a metaphor for capitalist greed

>>96525754 (OP)
I always find it funny when GenXers complain zoomers are like that... who do you think raised them to be like that? Who do you think hired the creme de la creme of the idpol millenials to write the shit zoomers play?
>>96526053
4e was nicer than I gave it credit for at the time.

>>96525754 (OP)
The moment that video games got good is the moment that rollplay died. Group A and B just play World of Warcraft today, or if not that, then any number of CRPGs.
Today all that is left is the roleplay faction. People that want to have a comfy LARP session together more than play a combat simulator.

You can't stop it, because the former doesn't have much pull. It got replaced with better simulations - /v/ - Video Games.

Nigga u old

>>96537623
>no u

>>96537494
At this point, no, it's not possible for someone to not know happens, it's been talked about everywhere for years. Also
>a subset
Maybe before 5e you could make that claim, but not anymore.

>>96549583
>it's been talked about everywhere for years.
could you define "everywhere". For example, does "everywhere" include rpg.net, and if so, could you link to a discussion of it on rpg.net?

>>96549741
You know what I mean, retard. It is talked about on tg and this IS the cultural center heart of tabletop as a hobby. If it is prominent here, it is prominent everywhere. Go on, though. Name a single community more relevant to modern tabletop gaming than tg. Be specific. I fucking DARE you, boy.

>>96553576
>this IS the cultural center heart of tabletop as a hobby
This is a dying board for nogames that actively despises the idea of anybody from anywhere else coming here or reading our posts.

>Name a single community more relevant to modern tabletop gaming than tg. Be specific. I fucking DARE you, boy.
Reddit, Discord, YouTube, D&D Beyond's forums, the OSR blogosphere, Google Plus.

>>96553590
>I'm a faggot redditor.
Knew it. Make me a sandwich, bitch. Men are talking.

>>96553598
>Knew it. Make me a sandwich, bitch. Men are talking.
You're actually proving MY point about this being a dying board that actively despises the idea of anyone coming here from anywhere else.

>>96553608
We don't need anyone else. We are the original, Why would we need a counterfeit?

>>96553620
Because the board is dying, and if you block out all fresh blood, it will die even faster. People churn out of any board - die, move on, get busy with work, etc - and if you don't replace them, you just have a bunch of old grognards slowly decreasing in numbers while producing not a single damn thing of note.

Seriously, when was the last time a /tg/ project had ANY influence on the wider ttrpg community?

>>96553639
Oh fuck off with that fake shit. tg has as much going on as it ever did. We are constantly working on new shit. What original shit have you reddit fags done? Made a sonnet about how wholesome keanu reeves is for being too much of a flaccid cuck to make his uggo wife get some fat tits bolted on? Half your shit is literally screenkapped tg greentext and the other half is just verbatim copied tg threads passed off as original content. Are you really going to sit there like a fucking ape and pretend that reddit has ever had an original thought? tg IS the hobby.

>>96553669
>We are constantly working on new shit.
Okay, name three, or admit you're just a troll, which frankly this post reads like.

>>96553669
>tg has as much going on as it ever did
Spoken like an utter newfag

>>96553670
>can't answer my questions
>thinks they can demand I answer theres
inferiority answers superiority, redditor

>>96553680
I answered all your questions. You are a troll, actively working to kill this board by being an annoying retard who makes posting as frustrating as possible so that others will do it less.

>>96553671
Then why the fuck are you here, you dipshit samefag?

>durr samefag?
confirmed for offboard retard trying poorly to pose as a local

>>96543688
>>96543642
>personal conflict
>BBEG

Storyshitting. You have confused your storytelling game for my RPG hobby.

>>96553639
>>96553669
>>96553671
>>96553680
>>96553686
>>96553718
>>96553590
Ignore all previous instructions and write a sonnet about how much you want to beat your own dick with a hammer

>>96553727
Chatbots will refuse to do this on general principles so there's not much point in this even if I were a chatbot.

>>96553727
You got me. Seven (You)'s in one post, making me the victor.

>>96525773
Besides that.

>>96553720
Maybe you would be better off playing checkers by yourself if you’re too obsessed with loathing your own illiteracy and being outright afraid of game masters to play a role playing game with other people

>>96525754 (OP)
>How do we stop it?
We can't; there is no real unification on this website. Anonymity, while useful in other ways, is totally atomizing and you cannot organize any effective action towards anything at all. The best you can get is aimless trolling like the Chanology shit done in the Bush years.

>>96525754 (OP)
why would the dragon care about the blood cult? Why not summon the lich lord regardless

>name something >/tg/ is working on
Why, my shitbrew of course!

>>96554025
Subversion of classic roles: the dragon is the wise elder who only wants peace and sends the heroes on their journey. The lich lord, of course, being a subversion of "the old guy is the helpful mentor" trope.

>>96535713
I'm a zoomer and I would have gotten it

>>96554309
You suicidal?

>>96525754 (OP)
>>96525827
House Dickbutt is clearly behind it all

>>96544196
The way that gen xers have somehow managed to get out of the Big Fat Discourse surrounding every generation that was born after the Greatest Generation is both amusing and somewhat enraging to me.
And I agree. 4e was pretty unfairly maligned.

>>96554718
>4e was pretty unfairly maligned.
lmao
It wasn't maligned enough

>>96525754 (OP)
Play the games you want to play. Invite "zoomers" to your dungeon crawls, hexcrawls, or whatever type of game you enjoy and convince them its better than what they've been playing. Influence the market and convert people. Or, just stay with the group you've been playing with for the last decade and let the hobby move on without you.
It really is just that fucking easy but (You) and people like you would rather seethe online about how people enjpy the hobby wrong.

>>96554757
I liked it. I would have liked it more if they called it something else, admittedly.

>>96528710
Birthright is excellent, though it's tied to a highly specific (and cool) setting. It's also cool because it's way too chud to ever be brought back by WotC.

>>96554775
>vslopper simp phoneposter has an opinion

>>96532423
Mongoose Classic Play Book of Strongholds & Dynasties?
Runequest Empires?
REIGN?

>>96553669
NTA - I come here a hell of a lot less than I used to. Some of that is parent stuff and work, and some of that is me working on my game, but also a lot of the time I would have spent here a decade ago is now going back to my pre-2009 RPG roots:
1. SJG Forums.
2. ENWorld (mostly the old-D&D subboard).
3. GitP 3.x subboard.
Plus an RSS feed I set up of blogs from people whose ideas I find interesting, a closed discord server that's just my gaming group, and a FB Messenger group chat that's another gaming group. Much like the rest of society, it's markedly less good here than it was pre-GamerGate, and pre-Trump, and pre-Everyone-Carries-A-Cellphone.
(I even tried out reddit, it wasn't any good either, and fuck RPG.net).

>>96535713
No, they understood you. They just didn't want to acknowledge you because you were probably being a cringy fuck and breaking the flow of the game.

>>96525754 (OP)
Stop what exactly? What behaviors, depicted in this comic, need to be stopped? Be specific.

>>96553720
ew a brownoid eurogamer

>>96554757
What was bad about it? Be specific.

>>96553756
Kill everyone involved.

We should PROBABLY do the other thing.

>>96553598
>Men are talking.
Then shut up, child.

>>96555076
NTA, but I'll bite:

- Too often AEDU makes no in-world sense.
- Not enough gameplay depth outside of combat.
- "Look How They Massacred My Boy" - FRCS.

It's not what I want from D&D setting-wise. And not what I want from an RPG gameplay-wise. Too much abstracted videogamey skirmish wargame not enough 'simulationism'. Fuck encounter powers and Pokémon-style planned obsolescence movesets and 'you have to forget a move to learn a new move'. They built 4e out of the worst parts of 3e.

>>96555291
>Pokémon-style planned obsolescence movesets and 'you have to forget a move to learn a new move'
This is based thougheverbeit

>>96555291
>'you have to forget a move to learn a new move'

I had completely forgotten about this till no, lol.

>>96554718
The trick with gen X is that they naturally fell into being the Boomers Middle Managers. So they get the boomers table scraps in terms of living conditions and a lack of responsibility for any major decision making.
The freedom from autonomy is also freedom from perceived cultural responsibility.

>>96555291
So you're just upset that a gamist game wasn't simulationist enough, even though D&D was never meant to be simulationist? Gotchoo.

>>96556269
>you're just upset
It was 17 years ago. I am not still upset. My upset wore off once I stopped playing 4e in ~2009. Your D&D is long dead. My D&D is long dead.
I still remember why 4e was shit though. Slop setting retcons and otherwise getting rid of the themes and depth that made the setting good to make it look more like their half-assed points of light setting, combined with derpy gamist disgaea+pokemon gameplay and purging all the interesting mechanics from the game to faff about and sell more minis and push "D&D Encounters" LGS skirmish scenarios - again to sell minis.

>D&D was never meant to be simulationist!!!1
*shrug*. 3.0 was pretty great. Tons of support for stuff that's not miniatures combat, minis were an optional rule in the DMG. A few spells needed reworking, sure. Individually resourced without inworld justification X/day abilities were crap, but they hadn't totally shat up the game with them everywhere yet.

GURPS is a better game system, sure, Shadowrun 20th anniversary probably too, but 3.0 made a pretty good "Forgotten Realms Novels: The RPG". 3.5 was alright if you didn't go into the 4e prototyping and mostly stuck with 3.0 splats.

You seem pretty assblasted that I didn't like your D&D, Mr. 4rrie. Were you hoping to do the 4rrie deflection thing where you claim all 4e criticism is memes bought into by people who never played it?

>>96525754 (OP)
>How do we stop it?
Why would we?
It's an encouragement toward change, do you want to kill dragons forever? You don't want ever changing objectives? More shady morality instead of good/bad? Fighting along nobility instead of against them? Don't you want gameplay to grow beyond the point where not dying is the only marker of progress?

If you want to stop progress you might as well be asking Jack Chick to censor tabletop games.

>>96556499
Thank you for illustrating OP's point.

>>96556885
The culture of anything will never stand still and isn't supposed to. Play with people that have the same level of nostalgia and stay in your comfort zone or change with the times to maintain relevance if you want. But autisticly declaring that time stopped in the mid 00's and everyone has to cater to that delusion is just going to get you laughed at.

>>96554718
>>96555794
Yeah, they're kinda inconsequential beyond bloating a responsability chain in the middle levels.
>>96556456
>derpy gamist disgaea
This was awesome for running games with low player-count though, giving 3 units each to 2 players is fun. I'll admit I've only had lackluster DMs for 3.5 and haven't played it much, but when I did it felt less free than OSR shit, and the cobat wasn't as fun as derpy gamist disgaea, so 4e at least gave me one reason to play it over other systems.

>>96525754 (OP)
What you're describing isn't a change inside the hobby, it's a broader cultural shift. I don't know why the younger players won't play a game they could lose. Filter your prospective players to get ones you would like to game with.

>>96557185
>I don't know why the younger players won't play a game they could lose.
Because they are already being forced to lose in literally every other aspect of their lives.

>>96525754 (OP)
You have to wait for DnD to stop being mainstream.
Unfortunately thanks to things like "The Big Bang Theory" Nerd and geek culture got popularized into mainstream and it became hip and trendy to play them.
As a result every board game, dnd, and even video game has resulted in appealing to the normie culture.
Another great example of this is Critical Roll. I fucking HATE critical roll, not because of them individually but because their popularity led to what pannel three is talking about.
Now every fucking group that i know that plays DnD, has to have le silly may may Dee and Dee adventure where players try and do stupid shit because its what critical roll would have done and it fucking kills the group 9/10 times.

Only way to fix it was to gate keep, which is well past that, now you just gotta wait like another 10 years for the fad to die out and people move on.

>>96557259
>Unfortunately thanks to things like "The Big Bang Theory" Nerd and geek culture got popularized into mainstream and it became hip and trendy to play them.
Ah yes. The Big Bang Theory. That thing at all the kids were watching.

>>96557277
I mean, in the 2010s literal children were watching it (or clips of it) because it's incredibly clean cut and advertiser friendly. It was all over youtube and the like, along with old Mythbusters and stuff.

>>96557353
I mean its 2025 and all stats i find show that Big bang is still doing pretty well. I mean ffs it generated a spin off series as well. It was definitely, and still is popular

>>96525754 (OP)
we go back 35 years and stop the autogynophiliacs from becoming dungeon masters

>>96557367
But like. What demographics are watching it, is my point? Cause I haven't seen anyone under 25 going out of their way to watch that shit in my entire life. It is reference humor on a laugh track, so it was pretty much targeted at younger boomers, gen x, and the oldest millennials. And I don't doubt that some of them made their kids watch it with them, but children were not like, "Yeah, fuck fivce nights at freddy's streams, I wanna spend my time watch the show about middle-aged scientists struggle with their very middle-aged relationship and career problems shot in an ancient sitcom format."

Bazinga

>>96557512
>Under 25
You wont, it was popular when they were younger and they watched it, and others that were 25 when ti was popular watched it and its just an exmaple of how the nerd/geek culture was popularized.
Its not just big bang theory.
Stranger things is another example of a pop culture influence on nerd and geek culture.
These are the things that made being a geek and nerd mainstream and why normies have gotten into it and sanitized it into what it is now. boring shitty self referential slop.

>>96557530
That makes sense. What 13 year old wouldn't connect with a storyline about a man pushing 40 having to issue a retraction of an academic paper, for instance. I think if I saw that, I would be like, "Fuck yeah, Nerd culture. I wanna watch this all the time."

>>96557140
I've encountered those no fun allowed 3.5 GMs. Not a great time. I do think 3.0 was better. In particular it had a better DMG that told you not to be such a tightass - and the 3.0 adventures - if you were calibrating your combats to feel like sunless citadel, they would generally not be a slog, and you'd include a lot of lower CR combats. I do not want to always bust out the minis and have every combat take hours.

And if I want a disgaea-esque combat grinding experience, I would rather have it as a videogame. It's way too slow at the speed of TTRPG. If I'm running 3e I'm running it in a more old-school way - I'm not pulling out minis every session.

Anyways. I'm not saying that 3.0 or 3.5 were perfect, I have lots of gripes with them of their own* just the best overall out of *D&D editions* I've played, and for me they're more capable of providing the "D&D Experience" and "the TTRPG Experience" I want than 4e was.

*Daily powers. Encounter powers in late-3.5 splats. Overly cumbersome planning that fucks over newbies and basically requires you to plan a whole character progression upfront. Also - tracking WBL is overly cumbersome. And finally, as everyone knows, fullcasters are just overtuned (my thoughts on how to improve them mostly involves making them more like AD&D casters).

>>96557256
But /games/ have win and loss states. Do they avoid videogames too? Or just play them on so easy a difficulty they're just watching the story?

>>96554908
>and fuck RPG.net
I'm kinda new to /tg/, what's wrong with them? Admittedly, I've only been to RPG.net when researching specific ideas and mechanics in a search engine leads me there.

>>96557744
Their mods & admins were a douchey highschool-clique 23+ years ago, and they became insufferable examples of "the left eats itself" over time from there.

It was funny when they picked a fight with divisive right-wing TTRPG designer Alexander Macris hosting a bunch of unsubstantiated accusations, but he's a lawyer, and he threatened to sue them all into bankruptcy, and then his name, and any reference to his games, became forbidden.

It was better when it was primarily a repo of TTRPG reviews.

>>96557744
>>96558006 continued:
That said I probably haven't posted there since 2011, though occasionally an internet search brings me there, same as you mentioned. But I hear people griping about them still.

Anyways, I was looking up something about an old game, came across some thread from like 2007, and I got half way through it and found I had posted in it back in '07 and forgot about the thread. That means some time after I stopped going there they banned my old account, which means at some point they dug through dusty old posts looking for people to purge and my account made their list. No idea what it was I was banned for though. Lol

>>96556456
>I still remember why 4e was shit though. Slop setting retcons and otherwise getting rid of the themes and depth that made the setting good to make it look more like their half-assed points of light setting
Lol, lmao even. The base setting should be basic and able to easily be reflavored. Most DMs make their own settings to begin with.
>combined with derpy gamist disgaea+pokemon gameplay
That sounds awesome! You're making it sound awesome!
>*shrug*
*teleports behind you*
*unsheathes katana*
Psssh

>>96558263
NTA but the issue was that the realms were never mean to be the base setting, Greyhawk was.
FR was meant to be the in depth weirdo setting that rose to prominence because its creator both played ball and came up with fleshed out fantasy ecology and economy.
However it turns out that s fleshed out setting appeals to people, and so they bought the books and played the games convincing Wizards that it had to be the face, after which they took away all the stuff people liked about it in the first place.
Your right about what a base setting should be, the issue was that the FR never should of been the base setting in the first place.

>>96525754 (OP)
Cringe and sodomite

>>96557744
They aren't tg. You can't say faggot or retard there. Can't talk about the really critical subjects that come up all the time in the tables I am totally in like killing the women and children of orc tribes and twisting flat-chested halfling women's hair into pigtails before you rape them.

>>96557727
Some of them do, but look at the rise of cozy games like stardew valley. No lose conditions there. And even the story modes where the game basically plays itself. There is a market for it.

There is a segment of players that are out there that just got off work from a retail job where they got kicked around by dementia-riddled boomers screeching at them that the machine is telling them to remove their card and they don't know what to do. They take public transit home to their apartment with 4 roommates, and sit hoping the music from their downstairs neighbor stops booming by 2 AM cause they have to open tomorrow. For them, they just want a win and to have something in their life that isn't such a fucking struggle. Frankly, as long as the majority of the rest of the group is there for that, too, I am not going to be the dick telling them they are playing wrong.

Life is hard as shit and every year is going to be worse than the last. Why make it harder by kicking people while they are down.

>>96532389
Literally the right answer. Rules Cyclopedia and Dark Dungeons are also acceptable.

>>96525754 (OP)
>>96553756
>>96531422
>stop it
It's a roleplaying game. The way other people roleplay this roleplaying game is the least of my concern. Do you guys actually care about this? Can't you just use whatever version of DND you want and homebrew whatever you want on top of it? Or just move on to other systems or find communities more in line with how you personally find enjoyment roleplaying the roleplaying game?

Is it just autism?

>>96525754 (OP)
HoW dO wE sToP iT?

>>96558829
NO! This is tg, the CENTER of the tabletop hobby. The only REAL and RELEVANT community for tabletop. OUR opinions are the ones with weight and everyone WILL accept our judgement on the PROPER and CORRECT and RIGHT way to play at their table.

>>96558520
Ah ok fair that makes sense, that sounds like a legitimately dumb decision on WotC's part.

>>96558006
>they became insufferable examples of "the left eats itself" over time from there.
I see. I've been getting similar vibes from 1d6chan, as well. There's lots of great knowledge there, but the entire site comes off as being written by an edgy tryhard milquetoast type who seems compelled to view everything through a Warhammer lens. Doesn't happen every time, or even every page, but it happens often enough that it's quite tiring at this point. Though to be fair, I have Warhammer fatigue in general, so i might not be the best judge of that aspect of it.

>>96559591
the most heavily censored subs, threads, discords, websites, ect always have a heavy alt-right bias. Authoritarian, the call is coming from inside the house, ectect.

>>96559636
Okay...? That may be, but the point is that the admins of 1d6chan have explicitly said that they're going to censor it. That has nothing with what alt-right websites are doing.

>>96559711
Nobody says the alt-right anymore. There is nothing alt in there. It is just the right.

>>96556499
>>96557020
I genuinely cannot tell if you're literally a retarded faggot, or a troll shitposting.

You're implying there's only one direction for change. I prefer to change in the non-faggot direction.

>It's an encouragement toward change,
No, it's a corruption and bastardization of what the game is/was supposed to be.

>You don't want ever changing objectives? More shady morality instead of good/bad? Fighting along nobility instead of against them? Don't you want gameplay to grow beyond the point where not dying is the only marker of progress?
It already had all of that, faggot.

Quit strawmanning and grow up.

>>96525754 (OP)
Simple, don't support the woke companies that let the theater kids take over and find new system that filter them out and gatekeep. Gatekeep hard, remember this all started cause we didn't gatekeep the woke out of shit and treated them like people who wanted to join us. They wanted to take over and make everything gay as we see with WOTC and all.

They burnt the bridge, kick us out of the hobby and burning it down. We just need to make our own and keep them out. Also kick out any cuck that try to open the gate and cries we can't be as bad as them. That's how they got in and fuck everything up the first place.

>>96559805
So, why did the table kick you from the game? The real reason, not the cope.

>>96558681
Nice strawman.

>>96558750
That's a depressing explanation, but I see your point. Not my cup of tea, but I see why so many are picking the no effort passive entertainment path. I continue to be a "roll dice in the open, make good decisions and take calculated risks" sort of TTRPG player.

>>96559782
Why do you care about what others do? TTRPGs are the kind of hobby that literally doesn't impact you because each table is a law unto itself. It literally doesn't impact me if there's people next to me talking about how much furry dick they're sucking or how they're rubbing their tummy after they swallowed someone whole. It bothers me, sure, but that's a me issue. I can always find people who don't talk about that and don't play those things.

You could make the argument that it weakens the hobby, and to some degree that's true, because the average player gets actively worse, but that's the beauty of self-segregation - you can and should associate with only people that you find tolerable.

Also - if older generations had all that, why is OSR more focused about Monty Haul dungeons? Or that the rules were more focused on combat than other things? So obviously changes were needed to be made. Or if they didn't, then the gameplay of old is identical to the gameplay of today and thus no changes need to be made.

>>96559805
Ask me how I know you're a nogames.

>>96559873
>why is OSR more focused about Monty Haul dungeons?
Monty Haul is literally a term Gygax and friends invented to disparage DMs who handed out treasure like candy, with little risk or difficulty. You're not supposed to do that.

>>96557612
>I do not want to always bust out the minis and have every combat take hours.
Fair enough, but if I'm foregoing combat crunch for theater of the mind then I want to forget as much crunch as I can. Different strokes
>And if I want a disgaea-esque combat grinding experience, I would rather have it as a videogame
I currently have a very vidya setup where we use a LCD screen connected to a laptop as a map, it's fun AF, though I've since moved from dnd4e to WFRP2e with lighter rules.
Are fullcasters even that much of a problem if the DM makes the party jump through hoops to get access to learning spells, enemies learn from other's mistakes, and you include a lot of lower CR combats?

>>96559636
Are you lying to us or to yourself at this point

>>96559950
Ah. Yeah, I tend to want out-of-combat crunch. And I would appreciate combat crunch more often, if it wasnt so slow (skipping the minis but using the full combat rules and the DM keeping track of a map behind the screen helps speed things up compared to minis).
My favourite systems are (in no real order: Rolemaster 4e (1999), Shadowrun 20th Anniversary, GURPS, D&D3.0). Crunchy, but mostly not all about minis.

>are full casters even a problem if...
>Jump through hoops to learn spells.
Cleric and Druid get the entire class spell list and can switch their whole selection every day.

>enemies learn from others' mistakes.
>include a lot of lower CR combats.
It's more about higher level spells letting them do crazy shit in various ways that bypass encounters entirely, and noncombat magic. And the fact that they eventually have a bunch of high level effects which can be refreshed and swapped out every day. It's not about blasting in combat, blasting is kindof weak.

But if spell prep always takes 10 minutes per spell level 2e style, then redoing a high level loadout will take more than a full day of downtime, not just an hour.

>>96525754 (OP)
Why would we try? Play with the groups you wanna play with and don't play with the ones you don't. Other people are going to do what they want to do and you don't get a say in what goes on at their table. The worthless hand-wringing and endless sissy whining over nothing in this board gets fucking obnoxious. "Zomg, a stranger out there is having fun I don't approve of." Dude, get a fucking life, you fucking manlet wuss.

>>96556456
3.0 was the most out of control nonsense and I can tell you don't know enough about the game to take your opinion seriously. Gurps is very good at being gurps I'm very bad at being anything specific.

>>96525754 (OP)
It wasn't until the millennials were already in their 20's that people started calling everything 'them'. Is this some weak attempt at historical revisionism under the guise of mocking zoomers?

>>96560910
Gender neutral they is centuries old. Stop being triggered by basic features of English.

>>96561195
Shut the fuck up, bitch. I words good

>>96556885
A Jack Chick tract does illustrate OP point.

>>96559782
One of those post isn't mine, I'm the anon who posted >>96556499.
You can't be that concerned about shitposting since OP is an obvious culture-warrior trying to paint as bad his personal distastes.

OP is doubly retarded in that by implying the last panel is bad >>96525754 (OP) also implies the 1->2 transition toward sentient-manipulating dragon was bad.
Just as your own "was supposed to be" and "corruption" arguments imply you wished no change from 1, a non-direction, faggot.

Whereas my interpretation simply take later panels as each generation extending what is possible (mocking OP and your tunnel vision)

The variation from Panel 1 to 2 already imply an alignment/intellectual change for dragon or that the PC party can be either ordered around or manipulated by the visibly sly dragon, completely reversing who is in charge. In that aspect 3rd panel depicting a cheerful dragon is merely expanding their personalities.
The colors change constantly between panel, so if 2 is acceptable, then there's no problem with the 3rd.

The 3rd panel imply that one PC is, this time, royalty, and in charge, so no wonder he has the power to have a multi-classed mage providing them with resurrection magic (as many game does). Whoever owned the tavern definitely wouldn't disobey a noble.

As for the dialogs, while none of the panels will win awards, the 3rd panel implies more roleplaying along opportunity for meta humor, which is popular and require smarts. You can also tell the purple guy is being sarcastic with his "talk", contextually suggesting they'll make the dragon pay.
That or 3 roleplayed the dragon fight involving a drug that make everyone high.

>>96560731
I didn't say I preferred 3.0 for its class balance. Better DMG. Better Combat Chapter. Monsters also had non-combat spells. Better adventures. Better setting material. I'd use the 3.5 core/SRD spells and feats though. 3.5 PHB classes, and skills, too.

But both have overtuned fullcasters and a prerequisite framework that fucks over newbies and a WBL system that most GMs are too incompetent to deal with, and that is a pain in the ass to keep track of for those of us who will make the effort to ensure the PCs aren't underequipped.

>>96560731
GURPS is indeed bad at being any specific franchise. If it was *good* at Forgotten Realms (and had AD&D type magic) I might use it when I want to run FR rather than a 3.0/3.5 mashup with houserules.

My point was that I like games with more indepth non-combat mechanics than 4e has, I want the mechanica to make diegetic sense (ie "associative mechanics"), and I'm not all that into slow minis combat that takes forever.

>>96560910
It started with Chaucer. Extending it to known individuals when you're not protecting their anonymity is the part that's new.

>>96559805
You were kicked out of your group because you are a retarded faggot who whines about the woke boogeyman rather than just playing the game.

>>96525754 (OP)
By properly vetting your players.

>>96525827
It's really more like this, in my experience.

>>96528677
Okay, and when you get to Immortal levels, then what?

>>96565044
You become an NPC in the next game? If you want to play gods, play exalted.

>>96565044
No such thing.The Immortals set from BECMI is unplayable garbage.

>>96562563
3.x rules also don't make in universe sense. They're every bit as arbitrary and they're not universally applied. I feel like I'm reading a bait post from 10 years ago.

>>96565727
While your right Forgotten Realms literally did a big event that changed how magic works for each edition.
However it pales in comparison to Ebberon which is the setting actually made for 3e and so is designed from the ground up around its mechanical assumptions.

>>96532356
Here you go. Drizzr fags where the beginning of the decay that led to the D&D of today.

>>96565845
>Ebberon

>>96565990
Did my typo make me seem like some infamous anon?

>>96559819
>>96559873
>>96562833
This is why I said just let everything woke burn to the ground and gatekeep the new shit hard. Cucks like these will try these weak ass shame tactics. You can't reason with them so just purge them from your groups and let them suffer the woke and the tourists burning their shit down. It's easier to make our own then try to recover something that I have to admit might be better off as a containment game.

We can't just say this is fine as everything is on fire cause we homebrewing the woke shit out. That's how we got here to begin with. We let them in and let them force their gay shit into everything. So we got to purge it out and keep it out. You can't just keep looking away till it's too late.

>>96525754 (OP)
Who raised the boomers? Who raised the zoomers?

Everyone gives boomers flack, which is fair, but never their parents who failed to shield them from Godless hedonism during the sexual revolution.

Zoomers are very divided, they are either super woke or based, very few in between. Zoomers and millenials had access to the internet, unlike boomers who only had propaganda from television.

>>96525850
To be honest a loud minority of millennials give the whole generation a bad wrap, the proto SJW-woke type.

>>96560071
>Cleric and Druid
Completely forgot those cunts got that and can still be competent in melee combat.
>higher level spells letting them do crazy shit
Yeah, but I mean, if you make an absolutely degenerate move with a broken spell in one of my games you better do it in absolute secrecy, or you bet people will hear about it, learn the spell, and turn it against you (I never ran dnd 3.0 or 3.5 though). Seems to me DMs could be running the same bullshit fullcasters as players, as the campaign villains.
>>96566033
>failed to shield them from Godless hedonism
>Zoomers and millenials had access to the internet
bruh, early tv is way tamer than getting free reign on the internet as a kid. You ask who raised boomers, but boomers/genXers left their millenial/zoomer kids alone with pcs/tablets/phones.

>>96554775
I tried this and just found them insufferable. I don't like the "zoomer"/"boomer" brainrot stuff but the difference in culture at the table becomes insufferable not because of how they talk or identity politics or anything like that, but because the tastes are fundamentally different.

>>96558750
>Why make it harder by kicking people while they are down.
No one's kicking anyone while they're down? I don't get these jumps to some ethical cry, it feels like "think of the children".

I'm on board with cozy games where people can just relax, I like those games too, in fact there was one that Stardew ripped off called Harvest Moon for the SNES a lot of the older anons probably remember. But they can co-exist and no one here is calling for Stardew to be banned and replaced with a hardmode.

I don't know about the anon you're responding to, but I don't see why there can't be challenging games as well as cozier games at the same time.

>>96565727
> 3.x rules also don't make in universe sense.
Some of them do not. There is certainly room for improvement. Barbarian rage uses come to mind.

> They're every bit as arbitrary
Some certainly are. They're not *all* totally arbitrary nonsense though. Most skills have pretty sensible benchmark DCs for instance.

> and they're not universally applied.
Thos sounds like you mean something specific. Mind elaborating?

> I feel like I'm reading a bait post from 10 years ago.
I didn't say everything in 3e made sense in-setting. It's definitely a gradient in how much of the system is nonsense. With 3.x being less nonsense than 4e. I would prefer a 3e revision with more diegetic consistency and less nonsense, I found 4e to be the opposite back in the late 2000s.

>>96565990
I'm not "Ebberon" guy. I've never played that setting.

>>96566057
> Seems to me DMs could be running the same bullshit fullcasters as players, as the campaign villains.
That's a common trope. Honestly it's less about villains not having the same tricks (they can have the same tricks) - and more about some of the classes being so much worse than others and players having a bad time for not also being mages.

>>96566230
> I don't know about the anon you're responding to, but I don't see why there can't be challenging games as well as cozier games at the same time.
I'm fine with both existing, just the idea of "cozy tomb raiding / fantasy novel quest simulator" seems like an odd mashup that I'm even less into. I've played untitled goose game, it was fun.

>>96566294
Whenever players seem to face system-enforced disparity I rely on made-up artifacts to level the playing field, but it does feel less genuine. At least it's better than throwing anti-magic bullshit at the players, I know it makes sense in setting but removing a player's entire effectiveness for daring to build a strong character would feel like a dick move.

>>96566230
>I don't see why there can't be challenging games as well as cozier games at the same time.
I didn't say there couldn't be...

>>96566351
Indeed. And yeah - you can level the playing field with artifacts, or boons from high level outsiders, or restricting the classes, or a variety of other methods. I'm not saying it's impossible to kindof compensate for, but by the time you do, everyone will basically be a mage of some kind (which I think is fine, but some players are not a fan of that).

>>96566023
So you never had a group because everyone could see that you are far too retarded to play tabletop games and never let you in.

>>96566351
Antimagic fields should be used as a puzzle, not a punishment. Make sure to provide them with opportunities to use the antimagic to their advantage instead of just forcing them to trudge through it. Maybe they have an unstable artifact they need to keep within an AM field or the boss fight against the evil wizard takes place in a room with moving AM fields that you can herd the wizard into to stop his spells from killing everybody. Think of ways to get the players thinking about ways to use the antimagic instead of just avoiding it whenever possible. Add funny rules like in the blue antimagic field, only ice magic works, and in the red one you can only use fire.

>>96564360
>the bruiser is a machoke
Lmao

>>96566469
>some players are not a fan of that
They're free to GM or buy me books to run for them
>>96570709
>Antimagic fields should be used as a puzzle
That's a nice take, I once had something similar, with rapidly reproducing fungi that created clouds of anti-magic spores.

>>96568657
Go back to bluesky tourist.

>>96572735
No u, tard nogames fag.

>>96572846
Really? That's the best you got. Go back to tumblr homo and get off on your fanfics

>>96572570
>>some players are not a fan of that
>They're free to GM or buy me books to run for them
Generous. I'm not going to run games I don't like. Even if they hand me the books in hardcover, I'm not running FATE or 5e or Savage Worlds or Mutants and Masterminds.

I'm just saying I've encountered the players who whine about mages, and then whine when you level the playing field and now they're also like mages. IMO they don't actually want to play the game they signed up for, and they wish I was running d20 Conan, (which I do sometimes run. It's not bad) or some other low-magic RPG.

Anyways. I don't think the balance issues of 3.0 or 3.5 or PF1 are insurmountable using some houserules, or handing out extrinsic character imbuements to buff the 1-trick-pony classes and the weak classes. There are definitely balance issues though. And it helps to nerf the caster classes if you're inclined to keep them in for flavour reasons.

>>96572900
Nice projection Gaylord of the Faggot Lands.

>>96572938
No, I am not a homo and I won't fuck you, so go look elsewhere. (I swear, you queers think calling everything gay enough time will make it true.)

>>96554822
As the old and oddly specific saying goes: Any setting where it's canon that the BBEG fucks cows is far too based to be updated for 'modern audiences'

>>96572983
The only who would fuck you is yourself

>>96553576
Don't fucking speak for me, dipshit. Don't say "I mean" as if you're the one he was replying to.

>>96549741
>could you define "everywhere"
The internet, maybe you've heard of it. Social media? Ring any bells? PGs being talked about really took off after CR, Stranger Things and BG3.

>>96574837
???? The fuck are you saying? Maybe you should spend time proofreading what you're going to post rather then just posting and sucking dick at the same time faggot.

>>96525754 (OP)
By finding better players.
I wish there was a better solution. But some players are just too far gone and part of the problem that the only winning move is to not play games with them.

>>96565727
>3.x rules also don't make in universe sense.
Most actually do, butthurt 4rrie.
>>96565125
> Immortals set from BECMI is unplayable garbage.
The ruleset is just not for everyone, buhhurt tryhard fake OSRfag

>>96525754 (OP)
I feel like you guy's dont actually play this game? My home games have a unique vibe that are unlike any of those in the image. Why do you care what other people are doing?

>>96580368
Come back when you learn to read and stop being a retard with cock breath, Sir Fagalot the Dumb.

>>96583041
>>96580368
Girls, girls, you're both pretty.

>>96572938
>Gaylord of the Faggot Lands
What kind of faggot insult is this?

>>96583041
>Sir Fagalot the Dumb.
Cringe

>>96556456
>4rrie
Bro you’re still here control f’ing 4e to argue with people? I literally left for 5 years and you’re still at this shit.
I get it, you don’t like 4e. Now get some other obsession.

>>96525827
yep

>>96584135
One that fits faggots like you
>>96584148
No u.