Thread 96917782

Fast Attack Edition

>Previous Heresy: >>96903321

>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N

>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8 (embed)
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS (embed)
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp (embed)
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/3.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics
>Legions Imperialis Army Builder
https://legionbuilder.app/

>Thread question:
What do your /your/guys utilize as fast attack, if at all?
If they don't, which units would you add to your force to fill that spot?
Bikes? Assault Marines?

>TQ

I want plastic Sabre Tanks

>dreadnoughts are a pain in the ass to put in a list
FOR FUCKS SAKE I DONT WANT TO TAKE ANOTHER COMMAND SLOT FOR A SECOND DREADNOUGHT I ALREADY USED ALL MY PRIME ADVANTAGES

>>96917782 (OP)
Fast attack is for losers

up to 335pts to spend

what 2 tanks would fit well with a terminator+land raider army?
i'm thinking vindicators currently, fits with the list "theme" being brute force

>>96917782 (OP)
1e player here:
Love me the xiphon.

Wrapping up my delegatus, just basing to go

>>96917782 (OP)
>tq
If you’re playing wb and not using ashen circle with a moritat I don’t think I wanna be friends with you. I love my little meth heads

>>96917782 (OP)
Interdiction Cadre Despoilers

Fauxtism and ESL time: one of my hangups regarding making my own dudes is the fact that HH is technically a "historical" setting, as in these characters existed, their actions and campaigns did, and so on. While in 40K you can always pull Your Dudes out of your ass, since the setting is so massive there is always room for more homemade Chapters and Regiments and whatnot.

However! In Horus Heresy the grand majority of everything is known; the names of Legion leaders and the various movers and shakers. I feel that if I want to make say the Captain of a Company, I'd need to look up who that is and make sure whether or not my modeling skills are up for the task. I can't just have my own OC Donut Steel come rocking up and pretend to be a significant character, when said position has already been filled.

Long and rambling I know, but do you guys understand what I'm getting at?
Feeling restricted in your choices?

>>96919412
>However! In Horus Heresy the grand majority of everything is known;
It literally isn't, the shit covered in Canon lore is 1% of the actual heresy, and there is explicitly always room for whatever the fuck you want. It's why you can have traitor ultramarines, or loyalist iron warriors: the galaxy is a big place and most marines never hear from their primarch again once the heresy starts. Hell GW themselves is playing with that trope, with those White Scars and KSons experimenting with Saturnine on a space station in bum fuck nowhere who didn't know about the war until some other White Scars showed up and wanted to kill the Thousand Sons

>>96919412
I kind of understand u, a lot of the legion lore can feel a little prescriptive.

but it's worth considering that not only was the scope of the legions a lot larger than 40k, but also hundreds or thousands of companies were wiped out during the heresy. So like, who's to say who those smaller factions that died were or how they operated.

plus it's only a historical game in a transitive sense, gw is constantly retconning things and BL writers are very rarely consistent in their depictions. So I think there's room for a lot of /your dudes/-ing.

and if you still can't get over it just do blackshields lol

>>96919412
you see the big players doing important, setting shaping things in the book and some chaos champs and loyalist heroes who get killed off by sigismund or Erebus in their signature ways.
But do you know of every battle and skirmish in the revolutionary war?
How about the many peers of Romulus while he ruled rome?
WW2 had thousands of people titled with some form of general. The US alone had 2000.
Napoleon's grand army had loads of generals that were famous for generations afterwards, household names with famous writers like Alexandre Dumas being the descendant of one who served under him in his italian campaign.
There's room for your dudes in a setting as large, with as little travel time as this.
There was that Iron hands book where every character dies in the end and nothing gets contributed and a whole type of army made of marines that just went crazy after hearing about the heresy and abandoned all identifying marking to make their own pocket empires.

>>96917782 (OP)

In Legions Imperialis, there are formations with lots of vanguard slots. I frequently field 60 bases of Harpax and then some Ursarax on top of that. So lots of Fast Attack.

>>96919621
>not just magnetizing the board and bases but your shoes too

that's some dedication to the bit

>>96919631

This is just a pic from when I was visiting my cousin in Australia.

>>96919644
Where's the guy's ground harness?

>>96919655
Gravity Boots my lad.

What do we think we’re getting in the preview? Inb4 they just show the breathers again

>>96919998
*Breachers, ESLmaxxing

ZM is back

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/tipr5oxt/zone-mortalis-rules-fight-furious-close-range-skirmishes-in-the-age-of-darkness/

Pondering what I want to be using as a retinue for Alpharius, if and when I actually bring him. I'd like to avoid anything that actually requires a spartan, since ideally there are a couple of good places he could be so that I can get actual use out of Everywhere and Nowhere.

>Morlocks - Squad of 4 EW termies, so they fit in a Land Raider. Have a legion standard, vox and gravguns, but are Heavy.
>Falcon's Claws - Light, so they match Alpharius, and very cheap for a melee squad, but they're WS4 and all dual claws so Alphy would have to do all the terminator killing.
>Dominators - Don't fit in the Raider but it would be very funny to steal Perty's guys and join them to a Primarch.
>Big Praetorian squad - get the big banner, aren't Heavy but cost a small fortune.

Any other good picks? There's something of a shortage of Light-typed melee units, but it would be nice to avoid Heavy so that Alphy can use his great init to setup move further.

>>96919998
Custodes

ZM rules are up

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/tipr5oxt/zone-mortalis-rules-fight-furious-close-range-skirmishes-in-the-age-of-darkness/

>>96917782 (OP)
I like AL being so varied they can attack with either heavy terminators or light infiltrators or massed tanks and it's fluffy. Unlike WS, whose terminators always feel out of place.
Still stuck using MkII because they're too far away to resupply...yet they just happen to have the latest Tartaros development? Get outta here! It's bikes and tanks for you.
I do like their rivalry. It is the wind fighting smoke and mirrors.

>>96920018

You can select Aftermath options as normal after punching a door. Does this mean that Loot the Dead blackshields can loot doors for victory points? This is obviously silly but it is funny to imagine an army of space marines going full Tomb of Horrors with it and carting away all the blast doors because they're more useful to them than the actual contents of the facility.

>>96920025
>You can even kill people by shutting doors in them!
Stupid shit like this is what gives ZM its charm.

>>96920060

Closing a door on someone hits at S8 AP- D2 and destroys the door, so there might even be situations where you want to shut a door on your own EW terminator or Magos or whatever because you don't want to deal with it being closed behind you later and can just tank the hit.
Shut door on your own bodyguard and watch as it leaves a perfect Terminator-shaped hole around him so you can leave later on.

>>96920053
LtD Blackshields scrapping door controls for copper like present-day crackheads is based

>>96920060
in 2nd I killed like 4 night lords with that, shit was funny as hell

>>96920018
Thank fuck they got rid of the retarded reinforcement points mechanic of the 2.0 ZM rules.

>>96920081
>Brother Detrius, we need to jam this door open
>B-but..
>No complaints, this is for the primarch. Now keep standing there please
>CRUNCH

>>96920085
Mega based. LOOT EVERYTHING

>>96920085
>>96920169
>blackshields are romanian or black south africans

>started going through the horus heresy novels
>unsuprisingly, most the stereotypes about each legion are overblown in discussion by fans
>space wolves and Leman Russ really are that retarded, hypocritical, and annoying

>>96920209
It is somewhat impressive that the SW lore is so bad that not even WAACfags play them, despite SW being amongst the top tier legions in each edition.

>>96920209

Fortunately you do get to see them eat shit for four consecutive books because Russ just cannot stop shoving his proverbials into meat grinders if it killed him. Gets rolled by the World Eaters, takes horrendous losses against the Thousand Sons, gets beaten up by the Alpha Legion until the Dark Angels appear from nowhere to bail him out and then runs in again and gets the rest of his guys killed against the Sons of Horus.

I don't massively dislike the rest of the wolves, even if they are a bunch of stuck-up pricks. I've always thought that a Space Wolf army that told Russ to go fuck himself before Trisolian and went back to Terra to die on the walls might be vaguely interesting.

>>96919998
When was the preivew again?

>>96920241
>>96920209
Did you miss the part where the wolves steamrolled the thousand sons at Prospero?

>>96920241
I personally feel like all that fits. They saw themselves as top dogs (heh) and that came to bite them in the asses when the chips were on the table
Although you could say the same thing about most of the legions.

>>96920252
Their strength isn't unwarranted either, they can kick ass when the going gets tough, but that also belies the point that they were tricked into wrecking the TS. Not exactly the brightest bulbs in the Emperor's tool box

>>96920264
It's funny because the hubris and muh intellect is what ruined the TS, do not trust malificarum simple as.

>>96920252

They had Russ, a significant numerical advantage, a thousand Custodes, a bunch of Sisters of Silence, Psy-Titans, a good detachment of Legion Mortis and total strategic surprise and they still took 30k causalties to the 1kSons' 56k as per Inferno. That's really not a great performance when going in for a fully prepared and planned assault against a Legion who were being actively blinded by their Primarch at the time and so were caught totally by surprise.

>>96920272

The Space Wolves and the Thousand Sons are both Hubrismaxxing for most of the Heresy but the Thousand Sons are slightly less annoying about it. Same for the Alpha Legion, honestly, but the Alphas seemed to be able to stay slightly more on-mission most of the time even if they did have a bad case of bond villain monologue disease.

>>96920252
Retard Strength vs Nerds betrayed by their own Primarch. Some accomplishment.

>>96920252
>Have Custodes and SoS help out
>Can get into orbit uncontested thanks to Magnus
>Still suffer horrific losses despite fighting against one of the smallest legions
>Tzeentch also actively fucks over the TS during it, with tutelaries in full revolt against the TS and rampant flesh change
Not that much of a steamroll...

>>96920278
An assault on someones home turf will always be costly, especially against astartes.

>>96920282
The strong jock stereotype has been so undermined by (((nerds))), so I will always go with the jock.

>>96920294
But enough about your choice of sexual partners.

>>96920291

The Thousand Sons had turned off all the defences, sent their entire fleet away and were being actively undermined in half a dozen different ways even before the Silent Sisters showed up and hard countered the casters who weren't spawnified. Prospero was essentially a best-case-scenario for straight-up Legion on Legion warfare, even the poor suckers at the Dropsite Massacre were in armour holding loaded guns when it all kicked off.

>>96920302
What way were they actively undermined in dozen different ways? Please elaborate

>>96920308

Magnus had blinded both their future-sight and their regular orbital defences and actively urged his captains not to defend themselves, so what plans they hastily managed to make were done under the radar officer-to-officer rather than at full legion level using the regular communications system. Ahriman going to other senior officers and basically saying "so we're fighting even if Magnus says no, right?" takes up a few scenes in A Thousand Sons. Once the fight started, Magnus sat out of it while Russ was running around fucking up wizards all day and probably-Tzeentch had supercharged the flesh change and forcibly overclocked all the Thousand Sons psykers, so they kept exploding when the Sisters of Silence weren't shutting down their casting. That last is totally the Sons' own fault, but it still doesn't speak well of the Space Wolves that they couldn't handle an ambush assault against enemies that were basically eating constant Perils of the Warp.

>>96920321
The TS were doing pretty good until the flesh-change took over, their overclocking was their mistake so in that case they undermined themselves by their hubris. The SoS did play a big part tho.

Your posts are not dozen points however, dozen means 12.

>>96920374
Do you also think there's actual cats and dogs falling from the sky when somebody says "It's raining cats and dogs"

>>96920409
The words you use matter and have meaning, be precise.

>>96920085
Aaaaand decided, I'm doing LtD Blackshields after all. Which is good, because the smattering of different legion models I have wasn't really going together.

>>96920374

Reading comprehension, anon, I said half a dozen.

The Thousand Sons eating shit is absolutely on them and they made a huge number of mistakes, but the Wolves take far more of a beating than they should handling two-thirds of the 1kSons legion with all the possible advantages on the attacking side. It's really not a good performance.

The Wolves had:
A significant numerical advantage Legion to Legion, since about a third of the Sons were on campaign and Magnus dispersed the fleet.
1000 Custodes, 3000 Sisters of Silence, 5000 Sons of Horus there to help.
A Primarch who was actively participating in the battle.
Total strategic surprise and orbital superiority, as well as the momentary tactical advantage gained by the 1kSons being unwilling to fire on fellow Astartes until the Wolves opened up.

The Sons were dealing with defending an almost unfortified city with no warning - Inferno pg. 34 is very clear that the Censure Host took the orbitals of Prospero with total ease because they essentially did not defend themselves and Tizca had no more than "a handful of defence laser batteries", while Tizca itself prepared only by mustering a few regiments of mortals because the 1kSons officers were busy arguing over whether to fight or not and so the Legion itself sat idle until the Prosperine Guard had already been overrun in close quarters.
When the fight happened they had to manage:

The flesh change.
Magnus blinding the Corvidae's divination and otherwise being AFK.
Their psykers being forcibly overclocked by their tutelary daemon-assistants, which destroyed an entire battalion of Sons and the Canis Vertex at the very least.
Civilians getting in the way everywhere, which they expend some effort evacuating.
Massive enemy titan and aircraft superiority.
Several of the senior officers and their troops refusing to fight at all (Inferno pg. 44, "leaving the dissenters to await the end within the Great Library")

>>96920414
Maybe try not being autistic anon.

Finished my 3k AL Terminator army list, need anons to give input

>Alpha Legion
>Loyalist (I REALLY want to be traitor but i'm forced to be loyalist)

Primary Detachment:
High Command:
>Cataphractii Praetor w/ volkite charger, paragon blade

Command:
>Cataphractii Herald w/ powerfist, prime advantage (the rewards of treason)
>Cataphractii Herald w/ powerfist

Rewards of Treason:
>5x Morlock Terminators w/ legion standard, grav shredder, 3x graviton guns, 3x artificer power axes, 2x chainfist

Armoured Fist:
>Land Raider Carrier
>Land Raider Carrier
>Land Raider Carrier

Armoured Support:
>Vindicator w/ laser destroyer, searchlights
>Vindicator w/ laser destroyer, searchlights

Army Vanguard:
>5x Lernaen Terminators w/ 4x Volkite Chargers, 4x Power Axes, Heavy Flamer, Chainfist
>5x Lernaen Terminators w/ 4x Volkite Chargers, 4x Power Axes, Heavy Flamer, Chainfist
>5x Lernaen Terminators w/ 4x Volkite Chargers, 5x Power Axes, Conversion Beam Cannon
>5x Lernaen Terminators w/ 4x Volkite Chargers, 5x Power Axes, Conversion Beam Cannon

2995/3000
should I swap my praetors melee weapon out for a thunder hammer or something?

Heralds join the heavy flamer lernaens inside land raiders, alongside the praetor and morlocks in their own land raider

conversion beam cannon lernaens sit at the back holding home objs and beaming shit from long range

>>96920439

I did not notice that Morlocks were Loyalist-locked, how strange.

Looks decent to me anon, although I'd probably swap the character fists and blade for thunder hammers and cut some gravguns to get lascannon onto the land raiders if possible, you could use the shooting.

>>96920439
>should I swap my praetors melee weapon out for a thunder hammer or something?
Yes. Also wtf 25 termies oof
Hey, what if you swapped armored fist for the Headhunter Leviathal? So you could have three LR Explorators instead. Might save you like 90 pts idk

>>96920439
What's the plan here? Besides snapping termies, I mean
>>Loyalist (I REALLY want to be traitor but i'm forced to be loyalist
What goes this mean?

>>96920439
Might wanna see if you can shuffle around some points so you can give the lernaeans in land raiders a couple of thunder hammers. Only power axes is fine until you run into something that isn't MEQ

>>96920448
>>96920456
swap chainfists for hammers? yeah I think I can do that

>>96920450
cant, explorators are transport cap 10

>>96920455
morlocks are loyalist only

>>96920463
there we go, praetor, heralds and the 2 lernaen sergeants now have thunder hammers instead of chainfists

also meant i went 5pts down (as a paragon blade is 15 compared to a hammers 10) so I slapped status effect launchers on 2 land raiders (maybe searchlights are better?)

>>96920480
Also give some regular lernaeans a thunder hammer, only the sergeant won't do enough dmg against other terminators.

>>96920480
I could also just slap extra lascannons on the land raider carrying my praetor...

>>96920053
LtD+Flesh is weak totally-not-skaven undead robo-pirates are coming for your copper pipes and catalytic converters.

in M31 the alpha legion smuggled crack into blackshield neighborhoods

>>96920296
Enough about your promiscuous mother, Anon.

>>96920501
Not worth the points, lascannons are garbage now.

>>96920500
dont really have the points
they are joined by a herald however, so thats 2 hammers in the unit at least

>>96920018
>If you move 10" or more you die 13% of the time
Funniest shit I've ever seen

>>96920579
No running in the hallways!

>>96920579
war is hell

>>96919412
>>96919430 is correct. There are plenty of obscure chapters within legions that were in the fringes or otherwise isolated until the war kicked off. Even something as simple as getting stuck in the warp during the crusade and popping out during the war.

If you really want your dudes, you can use blackshields. No one is actually important during the heresy except for a handful of Primarchs. The heresy was huge and lasted years.

>>96919412
>In Horus Heresy the grand majority of everything is known

Oh yeah? Name every praetor of the Ultramarines.

>>96920414
Turn of phrases are exempt from exact numerical accuracy

>>96920409
"The sky is falling" is a vastly better phrase than raining cats and dogs, which aren't even fluid

>>96920018
Am I missing it in the pdf or did they also remove the restrictions on everything but flyers?

C-can I actually take sentinels in ZM now?

>>96920579
>im going to send the giant death machine full speed down the ruined corridor of a space station, whats the worst that can happen!

>>96920716
You can, but there are other limitations in place that make using vehicles and other large models not worth the effort, like the Confined Space rule.

>>96919412
>In Horus Heresy the grand majority of everything is known
Name the company leaders of the Night Lords. All of them.

Yes, the MAIN leaders are known, as are the commanders of specific notable battles or campaigns, but thats not all of them, or even the majority. Remember, even though praetors are high ranking masters of the legion, theres a lot of them, you might know some but like 80% of any given legion is unknown, you could say your dude leads the WB 15th company and chances are no one can say otherwise.

It gets even "better" because half the legions only loosely follow any sort of reasonable command structure. Take the night lords once again, who outranks who? The flaymaster, the hauntleader or the shroudlord?

>>96920579
>mortarion uses shadow of the reaper
>16% chance to eat shit and die

>>96920761
>Sanguinius and Corax concuss themselves on the ceiling
Actual kino, I should have never doubted you, James

>>96920761
first rule of teleportation: dont teleport inside solid objects

I like this version of ZM. I hope the journal adds cold void and more missions. It would be cool to fight in a hanger of some sort; predators manned and firing point blank in confined spaces but no where to run as they take a desperate stand to repel invaders. Real kino shit.

>>96920869
>Vehicles being used as improvised fixed gun emplacements and bunkers
That's actually a neat idea, hadn't even thought about that yet. Even more excited to try out the new ZM rules now.
Also really like the barricade rules, definitely gonna use those outside of ZM too.

>>96920889
>MFW can bring a macharius or praetor but it can't actually move through any hallways so it's just dodging the shots as it moves between doorways and fires like a metal gear battle

>>96920869
>>96920889
>>96920919
>Be me, inside caestus assault ram barreling towards enemy fleet
>Goal is to board armored company carrier before they make planet fall to reduce their advantage
>Breach hanger, melta bomb in left hand
>Predators unload into first marines out the ramp
>shocked_pikachuface.png
>realize tanks work indoors too
mfw

So are blackshields any good? I'm reading the rules but how common is it actually that you can have one or more negative status effects on you

>>96920664
That anon tried to pad the numbers, he could have used a better phrasing. It's dishonest.
>>96920420
I'm not, oh how the standards have fallen.

>>96920579
>add damage characteristics to create nuanced damage profiles
>ignore that
>running too fast means your models can just die
ok

>>96920419
Ok I judged you too harshly, thank you for posting. Please consider this post >>96921084 wrong.

>>96920761
>For I have become death destroyer of worlds

>>96920022

A squad of 8 Suzerains fits neatly in a Land Raider and costs the same 300-ish points as 4 Morlocks if you give them half hammers and half axes. They don't have guns or status resistance, but I think they might be a better unit on their own if you deploy Alpharius elsewhere with Everywhere and Nowhere, they have enough attacks to fight almost anything.

Can you Rewards of Treason two copies of the same unit? Double suzie squads in raiders at least lets you swap which side of the board comrade alpharius is on after you see where the enemy heavies are.

>>96920761
>Fighting Death Guard in a bunker complex
>Catch sight of Mortarion
>He teleports towards the squad, scythe raised to strike.
>As he strides out of the shadows, he steps on a bar of soap.
>We watch as he slips face first into a concrete wall, and knocks himself unconscious.

>>96921220
>Be Legion Champion
>Whoop enemy praetor's ass in a fight
>He runs away, tail between his legs
>I chase the coward down
>He slips on a banana peel and falls into a bottomless pit
>I slip on the same banana peel and snap my neck
All in a days work

>>96919412
>However! In Horus Heresy the grand majority of everything is known
No it isn't, especially with the retconned numbers of Legionaries. Like, no where in A Thousand Sons or Propsero Burns does it mention the guys that would go Loyalist and fight on Cthonia.

>>96921078
Their range goes from made well or subpar but awesome. They're flat good if you don't meme, should that be your concern. Their angry buffs for statuses are just a bonus, it varies from game to game what your opponent brings. It's flavor with a minor buff.

>>96919621
how's the weather in tasmania mate?

>>96920264
Maybe not the brightest bulbs, but definitely the sharpest.

>>96921596
Perfection, 10/10 no notes

>>96921596
>necrocortical pict-capture of the Siege of Cthonia, colourized

>>96920419
The TS also walked a psychic titan into the SW frontlines where the had insufficient weaponry, started throwing out psychic power exceeding the titan's actual firepower, and then went nuclear when the demon tried to take control. Bro probably made a quarter of the SW casualties solo.

>no deep striking
IT'S OVER

>>96920889
>That's actually a neat idea
Did any of you use 1.0's terrain at all? Feels like half the time you guys are "coming up with" stuff that has been in the HH books for more than a decade already.
Mysterious forests (piles of dead), rivers (rad pools) and structures (temple of slaanesh) were very funny

>>96921750
NTA, but don't act as if anyone used those rules in 1.0 either. Ruins, craters, and forests oh my have been the norm for warhammer terrain since cities of death

>>96921715
What do they have against deep striking this edition? All ships have a brand new teleportarium! They are NOT relics yet!!

>>96921765
>don't act as if anyone used those rules in 1.0 either
But they should have! That's what I'm saying! The rules are right there, and have been so for years

>>96921787
erm, anon. i cant read any of those. looks like ur gonna have to post them

>>96921804
It's fluffy terrain

>>96921804
>>96921830
A lot of these are more obstacles than actual sources of protective cover. But that's fine. Instead of adding Crater terrain, we used pools of River X terrain. And sometimes people would be forced to wade through the bad place out of necessity

Alright fellow chuds, what's the optimum 1.5k config for ZM?
I'm thinking
>tartaros praetor unlocking legion vanguard
>3 vet tacs
>moritat mortalis
>2 destroyer squads
>LB for tartaros siege squad with plasma blasters

>>96921957
>Zero breachers or veteran breachers

(You) tried.

>>96921396

I'm still wondering what the best way to use Weapons of Desperation is. Tac squads sadly don't benefit from Fury of the Legion, but they're probably the most efficient way to deploy lots of bolter/bolt pistol marines that you can then swap to 1/3 heavy stubbers, a few shotguns for Stun and the rest dual autoguns for 6 S3 shots, all Assault. Shame they can't take any kind of Inductii.

Alternatively you go Despoilers and accept all shotties/stubbers.

>>96921957
>optimum

>>96921851
>>96921804

>>96921804
>>96922157
HH2 also released terrain rules as found on the black dunes of the drop site massacre, but it was just 1 chart instead of the 3+ of Betrayal. Kinda niche but it's there

>>96921596
war is hell

>>96922172
>>96921804
HH4 has a fucking Castellax as mysterious debris. And that's just the stuff you can set on the map.
The map itself has rules for weather (rending cold, excessive heat, extreme winds, etc) and locale (carnivorous flora, hive city survivors, etc) that i'm not going to post, nobody's ever going to use anyways

>>96922212
Whoops didn't post the pic lol

>>96921766
>>96921715
I'd wager that will be in the journal. Maybe a special mission for teleport strikes. It would be really easy to house rule in too.

>>96922278
One of the missions in Forge of Saturn has you deep strike ALL your saturnine units.

>>96921787

The 1.0 books had a ton of awesome stuff nobody used.
Victory is Vengeance was a surprisingly great format for a combat-patrol scale league, too. You had to slightly patch ad hoc squads to encourage people to actually put their models together rather than running 30 single model units, but it was really fun to have lots of little fireteam units like that. I wonder if I can port it to 3.0.

>>96922289
>>96922278
Gee, if only you could deepstrike your regular terminators on any mission, instead of the New Saturnine TM on the Saturnine mission x.x
Everyone has teleporters, not just a handful of Warmongers. At the very least 1.0 let you deepstrike terminators in Orbital Assault, no?

>>96921957
>ZM
>20 tartaros
>Zero breachers
100,000,000,000,000 years dungeon

>>96922373
It's an indication that deep strike could get fixed in the future. Deep strike is still very useful right now, even if it's only a single unit per turn. DA interemptors in a drop pod will rape any infantry.

>>96922457

A friend's 4 man phraetus gang has been an utter terror in games I've seen, they have atomized a huge number of Seekers that were chilling in the back waiting to snipe things. Deepstriking templates in particular are extremely mean.

Why is the wider HH community so overprotective about "muh narrative game no meta/tactics discussion"

I see newer players getting shut down all the time asking for list advice

>>96922506
Got to keep the 40k cancer out

>>96922506
Because they've successfully deluded themselves into forgetting that their favorite WarGAME is still a GAME and meant to be played to win

>>96922469
For a moment I was worried this refereed to me, but I haven't killed any seekers (yet)

Would picrel fly as a proxy for NL Night Raptors if helmet and pauldrons are replaced or are the models in general too chaotic for 30k?

Just started collecting Dark Angels and building towards 3k based on an old Age of Darkness box - how's it looking in a list so far?

Prime Detachment
-HQ
>Cataphractii Librarian + Divination, Force Axe - 145
>Tartaros Warmonger + Thunder Hammer - 160
>Mortificator - 100

-Troops
>Tactical Squad + Vox, Plasma Pistol - 115
>Tactical Squad + Vox, Plasma Pistol - 115

-Deathwing Conclave
>Augur Command and Control Squad (LB) - 80
>(spare elite slot)
>9 Cataphractii + Power Fists - 360
>(LB) 5 Tartaros Siege Terminators + 5 Plasma Blasters - 200

Firewing Echelon
>10 Seekers + vox - 205
>10 Seekers + vox - 205
>2 Tarantula Turrets + Heavy Bolters - 45 (LB)
>(LB) Spartan Assault Tank + Hull Twin Lascannon - 410

Dreadnought Talon
>Contemptor + Gravis Bolt Cannon, Power Fist, Heavy Flamer, Havoc Launcher - 165
>Contemptor + Gravis Plasma Cannon, Power Fist, Heavy Flamer - 170
>Contemptor + Gravis Plasma Cannon, Power Fist, Heavy Flamer - 170

Total is 2645, is an ok all round base to start with or is there anything I'm sorely lacking? Feel a bit like I'm spending too much on expensive command choices.

>>96922506
because HH has always been so easy to break open that
1) there's not much to discuss except whether you think "broken thing A" is more or less broken than "broken thing B"
2) you don't really need to point out what's actually broken because it's pretty obvious at a glance

that means we can't discuss the "high end" of competition because there's nothing much to discuss there but there is still tons of contention about "middle ground" competition so that's all just arguments of people accusing your middle ground thing of actually being a high tier thing, saying high tier thing is actually shitty so it's fine in middle tier, or saying middle tier thing is actually shitty idiot shit. and that's not an interesting or engaging conversation. so it all gets shrugged off as "idk dude just play your fucking mans" because if you ask me "are dark angels actually good" and I say "the legion rule isn't great even post FAQ but the detachments are very, very good and their inductii are insane value for points" it'll get 94 responses of
>this guy thinks DA are good
and 6 responses of people unaware of the errata saying
>>doesn't even work against combat res
>kek

>>96921957
dreadnoughts

>not banned
>not restricted
>massive cunty guns
>hard to kill
>no vehicles to deal with them
>only have problems if they move into specifically restricted terrain

>>96922506
>I see newer players getting shut down all the time asking for list advice

that's an online thing

the problem with offline is you do get the occasional dishonest or stupid assistance, but mostly you're just getting online advice second-hand, or being walked through the very basic stuff that's already in the rulebook

at the end of the day it's a game of chance, if you find there are some chances it's impossible for you to survive (if you've only got infantry and can't reach the Objectives in time, if you've only got light weapons and can't deal with vehicles etc) then it's usually pretty obvious what you need to do to rectify your problem

but it is always a game of chance and you're not guaranteed 3.1415926535897932384 Wounds per whatever because probability is multiplicative not additive, so a lot of the advice everybody's giving is bad advice because it's based on the idea that your stats are all going to level off, when in fact they won't

>>96922506
Threefold:
>40k attempts actual balance, and at time succeeds to an acceptable degree.
At the very least much more than 30k.
>30k is models and narrative first, always has been, with a plethora of options means that it can very easily break balance.
>Per second point, 30k draws a more relaxed crowd for various reasons.
Some people want more narrative forces that would they can't emulate with how minmaxy 40k is. Meta discussion is fine, it will always exist. It's purposely minmaxing or over optimizing a unit to toxic levels that frowned on. The point scale is larger so when you say "oh this unit is several hundred points" that's out of a larger 3k game. It's also easy to take advantage of older ally mechanics that made older 40k editions cancer. So you need to self police. It's ok to be gamey against a gamey opponent of you both like to do so but the average level of many lists sits in the 70-90% range of optimized. The goal isn't the 40k matched play standard.

>>96923105
>at the end of the day it's a game of chance

Don't remind me. My DA praetor lost a challenge to a fucking AL saboteur with nothing with a power dagger. Statistics are a scam I tell you.

>>96923144
A leviathan of mine lost a duel against a power sword centurion, the fucking thing exploded and killed 10 marines of mine next to it.
It was retarded BUT extremely fun
Pd; is my ironhand scheme, what do you think? Too bright?

>>96923302
>Iron Hands
Uh... why is he red?

>>96923322
I tried to make him burnt oil color...
I thing he is too bright, I might put a dark oil wash over him

>>96922878
>Librarian
Give him a volkite charger or combi-volkite
>vox
Only worth it on 15+ man squads.
>plasma pistols
Volkite is better if you're Tac-fighting
>other troops
Inductii are good
>cata
I would mix in single lightning claws. Also volkites or combi-volkites
>vox
See above
>Heavy Bolters
Not a terrible choice but while not missiles or volkite?

>>96923322
nta. red talons precursor maybe?

>>96923302
>>96923343
Vallejo Exhaust Manifold

Enough with your reading, you fucking NERDS!
Mangus's spine is scheduled for manual toblerone processing.

>>96923144

Look, the one advantage to the AL's silly gimmick is that you can just say it was Alpharius and preserve your honour.

Outside the power knife saboteurs regular AL characters are surprisingly dangerous. They don't really have anything to make them more killy, but their legion gambit letting them go first and flail at you with a hammer/fist on round one opens up a rather large window in which the dice can screw over a superior opponent before that opponent can apply his better melee stats.

thoughts on the legion herald?

I think he's fun, but basically requiring him to win challenges is a tall order

>>96922506
Can't he just rack up points sitting in a close combat unit winning combats

>>96923144
>My DA praetor lost a challenge to a fucking AL saboteur
Huh ? But Saboteurs are Specialists, they can not get into duels?
>>96923498
Yee. Surprise plonk

>>96923580
He can get points from being in a squad with another character iirc. Champ+herald+command

>>96923580
I don't like him
>requiring him to win challenges is a tall order
I'm going to pretend the Champion has that rule and the Herald unlocks the champion's detachment, as Heralds used to have Master of the Legion in 1.0, and now Praetors and Delegatii are the "bring extra elites" guys.
Praetor, Delegatus and not!champ Herald in the same place sounds like Exalted High Command in the house

>>96923618
>Saboteurs are Specialists
Really? Goddamn ALfags bamboozled me yet again, dammit!

>>96923647
Lmao. How did he win, anyways? Like, who charged and who used which gimmick? I'm interested in having a character with a dagger and a hammer

Ignoring the tearing and the poor attempt at thinning paints is the red too bright?

>>96923728
What red? It is a great Ryzan orange though

>>96923671
>How did he win, anyways?
By repeatedly rolling an ungodly amount of breaching hits with flurry of blows, whilst passing every 5+ invulnerable save against each terranic greatsword critical hit which would have killed him in a single hit (I was using the DA gambit)

>>96923757
Yeah the pic brightens the color a bit. I'm using Pure Red from the Warpaints Fanatic. I was thinking switching to Khorne Red or something similar to it.

I like the new freedom of units in the new ZM, hate the lack of deep strike and i am still using nycron city rules.

>>96920018
Aaaaaaaaaaaaand it's shite. It really must piss GW off that people figured out you could use ZM to play heresy at small point values and not have to collect a giant army stuffed with overpriced centrepiece units, they've been trying to kill it as anything more than an occasionally used alternative mission for two editions now.

>>96923884
u ok retard?

>>96923905
Do not engage with the residential threadshitter, he's genuinely schizophrenic.

>>96923580
He needs to win challenges or be part of a unit that wims comat, no? Put him in a command squad or a veteran assault squad.

>>96923758
Damn. Just how many rounds did it go on?

>>96923949
Three damn rounds. My praetor was the one that issued the challenge, WS 6 against WS 5 seemed like a done deal.

>>96923971
When you're making at least 4 3+ rolls to hit you usually miss 2 of them. Don't ask me why it just happens.

>>96917782 (OP)
Any decent guides on painting thousand sons?

>>96917782 (OP)
>FastAttack.jpg
>attack gunship has landing gear extended
>clearly taking off to evade an AL ambush
>this too is a lie.exif

>>96917782 (OP)
Lads should I go with World Easters or Thousand Sons?

>>96924126
Thousand Sons

>>96924126
World Eaters

>>96924126
Thousand Eaters

>>96924126
Shattered Legions with both

does warhammer world still sell the legion specific dice? they're OOP on the store

Why did none of you tell me seekers were WAAC
Or rapiers?

>>96924224
Given being around their own librarians was painful for WE thanks to the nails being deployed along the TS must be a uniquely torturous experience for them

>>96924293
It is a good pain

>>96924283
Only people are WAAC, not units

>>96924309
I did practice rolling dice a whole lot before the game. But in hindsight the 20 seekers might have been a bit much.

>>96924309

No, entire factions can be WAAC. Like any Auxilia or Mech player who's making stupid lists trying to beat Astartes in a game that's supposed to be about Astartes.

>>96924283
Seekers don't seem much different from 2.0

>>96923302
Looks like a fucking word bearer are you color blind or something.
Looks like SHIT

>>96924364
Idk, I feel like the general package is stronger this edition. The fact you dont pick between the 30" 2 shots and the breaching 4+ feels pretty big. Also all the statuses.

>>96924374
They're probably more relevant for the eady access to massed breaching but I can't see how they're suddenly WAAC

>>96924400
I think they might also be cheaper. But really I also think its just a case of "all the things add up"

Their shooting got buffed to be better making them really scary snipers, they still infiltrate, they play well into the statuses relevant to the new edition. They also infiltrate which is a really nice rule for denying/enabling turn 1 scoring.

>>96923884
Why is it shit?

>>96924418
Their number of shots is 2 now, instead of 1, with 6" of extra range they are much better

>>96924490
Yea, they rolled the breaching shots (used to be 24" 1 shot) and the 30" 2 shot rounds into one. So theyve got a really good damage output now from what ive seen.

And its not like seekers were unusable in 2e.

>>96924345
>The game is about Astartes
>Make list about beating Astartes
>"That's stupid"
What the fuck else is people meant to make lists against. Militia? Lmao
A faction's metric is how good it kills marines, the same way an elite Terminator's metric is how good it kills other Terminators

>>96924524
>, the same way an elite Terminator's metric is how good it kills other Terminators
Contekar dont do that well, guess theyre bad right?

>>96924552
Unironically

>>96924552
>1 hammer equivalent per squad
i5 Atramentar are vastly better than Contekar

>>96924500
>its not like seekers were unusable in 2e
This very much. In hindsight, maybe we weren't supposed to infiltrate a Land Raider DT (or snipe with combi-meltas), but seekers were fine.
I'm glad useless Tempest rounds became Status effect now, but isn't it always better to test Suppress at Cool 5 than Panic at Ld7?

>>96924621
I guess the trade there is that panic is stronger.

>>96924628
And it causes units to run away, but suppressive already makes them basically unable to shoot back, idk. Guess it's nice to have options

>>96924421
NTA. These ZM rules are fine, but they both have less flavor and are more complicated exactly where they shouldn't be. Plus missing stuff they're gonna sell us as DLC. If you love 3.0 you'll love them. At least they're usable out the gate this time.

>>96924655
Well yea, but Panic does both. A routed unit is essentially out of the game for a turn, possibly forever, it cant melee and it cant shoot as well.

Panic is definetly the most powerful status.

>>96924524

The point is that people shouldn't be going into games thinking they have an equal chance of winning as an Astartes player. It's always the anti-narrative WAACfags who find some no-name NPC faction and make their list to abuse niche rule x to ruin the good time of the people who just want to enjoy the game and setting the way the designers intended.

>>96924664
Desu my impression was always that the PDF was gonna just be a temporary stop gap until we get a book focused around ZM, similar to Cthonia and that white dwarf article they did. It's lacking some sauce but at least there is a framework to play games and start building lists for

On that note, I'm gonna start planning my shattered legion zm list now

>>96924690
>just be a temporary stop gap until we get a book focused around
GW pretty much admitted to this when the Daemons PDF rules dropped, with talk about god specific journals being planned in the future. Wouldn't be too crazy if this is also the case for all the other PDF rules shit they put out.

Are apothecaries still worth bringing along as a melee addition to a squad? They're 2 wounds and 2 attacks with all sergeant melee weapons instead of just power weapons, but you need a specific detachment for them or a logistical support.

>>96923580
You just have him riding bitch in another squad with a bluffed out combat dude. Then he is just adding 4 WS5 Thunder hammer or Fist swings into the opposing squad. The fear bubble is also nice to have.

>>96924746
For melee units, sure. Getting the detachment is more of an obstacle than the point cost, 30 pts is almost nothing. Though the apothecary detachment does have a prime slot, so can use logistical benefit for that.
Still find having an apothecary in despoilers to be neat, the medic reaction gives them at least some option when they're shot at.

>>96924746
Yes, depending on what squad it is/what you expect to have thrown at it.

Theres no saving 1w dudes from autocannons (for example), but it can reduce damage 1 to damage 0 and damage 2 to damage 1, so depending on the unit youre taking the hits with its very valuable.

The reaction definetly hurts, and the slots arent free, but it also provides status resistance. Basically its a "I really want this unit to do things" thing.

>>96924664
What flavor was lost
I'm just happy they got rid of the stupid reserve point system no one enjoyed and no one asked for

Played my first game of 3e today. Heres my opponents beautiful DG army against my shameful greytide (well, some units were painted, but theyre out of shot).

Doubly shamefully, the game was a bit of a creaming, we called it at 19:2 at the end of my 2nd turn.
Next time I hope to come back with a more painted army and a softer list.

And yes, it turns out you can just ignore 1000pts of land raiders just fine

>>96924283
Sorry anon but corvidae TS seekers with rending breaching precision for only 115 are not as WAAC as a 400 point Prime Slot malefic AL headhunters + heterodoxist techpriest

>>96924912
>Anon found a way to break corvidae
Is today a day that ends with Y or what?
Its corvidae, its harder to find a way to use it fairly.

>>96924796
We liked RPs over here, but hey if you didn't I get it. Lost flavor are all the rules we had from the fall of nycron city, custom reactions, battlesmith interactions, template buffs, custom FOC shenanigans, and the RP abilities you hated. They'll sell some of this back to us, no doubt. Confined Space (X) and Doorway (X) are extremely retarded rules though, 7 paragraphs to abstract the idea of a doorway is extremely 3.0. Randomly changing spaces on certain boards is also just insane, not to mention diagonal deployment maps. Nobody's gonna play a lot of this as written, which is normal for ZM I guess.

>>96924919
The joke is that people were saying the Headhunter Bomb is WAAC when TS can spread it out more effectively across multiple squads.

>>96924880
Those DG really are well painted, even got green goo coming out of their alchem flamers

>>96924938
The anons saying the headhunter bomb is WAAC are silly, its not. Is it FUN (at least for the opponent)? No, probably not. But its expensive, fragile, and ultimately not very practical.

>>96924946
Yea, dude has a lovely army. Theyre also named (the transports after various metal songs afaik)

>>96924960
And yes, the land raider with toxic sludge on the roof is for the mortus poisoners.

>>96924960
>Things named after metal songs
Now that is some real old school warhammer SOVL

>>96924979
The land raider on the side (had the grave wardens, champion, and praetor in it) is "for whom the bell tolls"
The radioactive one is "Curse You All Men" and the spartan is "The Iron Vestry" (which I assume is another song).

The poisoners are "The Day of Tears and Mourning". Really cool names.

>>96924993
Those work better as spaceship names I think.

>>96925035
I like The Iron Vestry, it evokes armor, a bit iron brick come to disgorge terminators in your face.

>>96924685
>people shouldn't be going into games thinking they have an equal chance
Yuck. Actually toxic to game balance. All factions should have equal chance, though by different means.
Bro probably thinks 10 Tacticals should cost the same as 10 Militias because marines should always win, I'd guess.

>>96924979
I used a local prog-rock band that's known for their nonsensical and punny song names. Translated to English, of course.

>>96924739
>Believing GW
Yeah, and they also said Exemplary Battles Part 1, then nuked that edition

>>96925072

No, the lore is clear that Astartes are often outnumbered by their opponents.

What shouldn't be true is equal points of Auxilia and Astartes being a fair fight; Astartes should have the advantage until the points get to about 2-1.

You tournament-focused balancefags are exactly what I tried to get away from when I stopped playing 40k, but now 3.0 is catering to you again.

>>96924880
>you can just ignore 1000pts of land raiders just fine
How dare you. Just what did they do? Or rather, didn't do.

>>96924932
>fall of nycron city
What even was that? Especially the rules that came with it

>>96924970
>mortus poisoners
I don't believe in them u.u

>>96925100
>Just what did they do? Or rather, didn't do.
About as much as my poor kratos they were hiding from which only killed a rhino and a bit (thats why theyre all in one corner of the map, they saw where I put that thing down and went for the opposite side of all the central terrain which btw was a really healthy amount I felt, not impossible to play around but no "and then I put down a firing lane and dominate the entire board" places really.

The spartan and twin lascannon LR managed to kill the rapier batteries for the gravis bolter rapier team on my left flank. The spartan also managed to kill a night raptor. Thats it, thats all I remember them doing.

They didnt get a 2nd turn because by that point it was just the spartan, twin lascannon land raider, and terminators left. And no way to come back from the objective difference.

>>96925114
They were quite scary, although me putting two power armor units in a big central tower didnt help me any against them. 29 hits wounding 2 is just nasty. The rad grenades are also pretty spooky.

>>96924960
> Unpainted trash
How about you don't?

>>96925097
>the lore
Mfw
>Balancefags
Lmao

>>96924880
> Unpainted grey tide WAACfag list beats another SOULful painted army
You hate to see it

>>96925142
Greetings FAGGOT, I see that once again you have not posted your models, armies, or games. Curious . . .

>>96925154
>can't read
>doesn't post models
KWAB

>>96925158
I'll do that RIGHT after you post your fully painted army anon

>>96925142
Yea yea, dude shows up out of town with an unfinished WAAC list. Tale as old of time.
I considered waiting until the army was all painted (or at least, all blue) but they were having a big HH bash at the club and I wanted to join in. So there we were.

>>96925154
Indeed. In my defense I didnt expect my list to be quite that strong (its made of paper, I figured something would just hit me and I would fold), but thats the lack of experience for you. Ill definitely bring something a bit less oppressive next time.

>>96925108
cityfight ZM, very cool and fun. More shooting focused than melee focused regular ZM

>>96924950
>Is it FUN (at least for the opponent)? No, probably not
NTA but a little cancer is still cancer. Its like saying That stage one cancer is fine when stage 4 exists. Just like one phosphex isnt the worst, but three are, or one arbi is pushing it but 2 or 1 plus multiple rapiers ar cancer. Something doesn't need to be cheap, durable AND killy to be over the top. It can be killy, expensive but so skew it punches up to much.

So if I was to sell this whole lot off, how much might I get for it?

>>96925334
>. It can be killy, expensive but so skew it punches up to much.
Maybe. But thats the thing, I dont think the headhunterbomb punches "up" most of the time. Its going to kill "A" thing probably, then get melted in return fire because its an 18" range power armor squad.

What it will do is punish certain strategies and playstyles far too much. Its made to kill characters and their big cool command squads, its a unit designed to be a party pooper.

>>96917782 (OP)
Anons im determined to become the most autistic man possible and i am gonna combine my LIgma and AT board with a model railroad.

plan is to use the new TT:120 from hornby, and convert the locomotives to warhammerify them.

My question is, if someone near you did this, how many of you would show up just to see it, and how many of you would then download the app for controlling em to fuck with the trains while your friends try to have a game?

>>96925361
Me because I wanted to play AT when it wasn't dead

>>96925348

It's the Primarch zoning device, basically. If you try to push your big deathstar up the middle it's going to pop out and rinse your Paragon and you're going to be sad, but if both players know what it does it's a fragile MEQ squad that you can kill or maneuver around, so placing it somewhere is a big sign saying "I want the spartan to not drive within 18" of me".

Not much else can zone deathstars out in this game beyond other deathstars, so it has unique capability, but I think if anything it's more a utility tool given how expensive it is. If it kills a Leviathan and then dies it's still 150pts out of pocket.

>>96925361
Choo-choo!

>>96925340
You'd get it all

>>96925340
2-3K

>>96924421
Are you braindamaged? I said why it was shit in the post you're replying to: ZM was fun because it let you play 30K in a different way, with nice contained ~1K point battles where you didn't have to deal with giant centrepiece bullshit and megacharacters. This, apparently, angered the GeW(and his little bumboy minions like >>96923905 and >>96923942), so with 2nd edition they loosened the restrictions and emphasised that you should be aiming for a 2.5k army to play "properly" at which point you might as well collect a whole 3k army for normal 30K missions eh eh eh? They didn't get anywhere with it because A; most people hated the dumb arbitrary Reinforcement Points system they had to include to deal with people having big army lists but the game still recommending small tables, and B; they shoved 2.0 out the airlock not too long after "proper" Zm was released. This new version of ZM takes a different approach to achieve the same desired outcome by dropping almost every restriction on what you can bring and then imposing restrictions again on a mission-by-mission basis using the terrain rules...but they intentionally include a mission with no such restrictions to encourage you to buy that big shiny Leviathan or whatever and hey, once you have one why not buy two? You can't use them all the time in ZM, but you could make a 2K army to play normal missions with and hey, maybe throw in a superheavy and some extra terminators eh eh eh?

>play 3e
>don't have tacticals in rhinos
>lose
wow

>>96925520
Didn't read a single word

>>96925572
wow anon I'm sure this is a complaint based on an actual game, what mission type, deployment map, and army lists where you using?

>>96925641
note that anon never said they lost because they didn't have tacticals in rhinos. They just wrote that they didn't have tacticals in rhinos, and also that they lost.
I think both things can be true!

>>96925035
For my DA army all my heavy tanks are named. The Spartan is called Die Bluttrausch. And two land raiders are called Hänsel und Gretel, and my Kratos is der Volstreker. If I ever get rhinos or smaller tanks I will name them too.

>>96925361
I mentioned doing that to my local group and everyone (5 dudes) thought it was fucking dope

>>96925361
That sounds like the kind of thing I'd make an ~6 hour drive to see.

>>96925656
Both things can be by themes, though I do believe anon implied them to be related
Rhinos are much better, but also less affordable than before. I have played Tacticals without Rhinos in 2.0, and things seem to be less deadly now. I think they could be hidden behind the bulk of a Land Raider or something, too. Infiltrators can no longer deploy in your own DZ after all

>>96925675
I can see at least two unpainted minis at first glance, making it not an entirely painted army. You loose, throw yourself and your minis into a wood chipper immediately.

>>96926219
You said loose instead of lose, your going with him

>>96925641
thralls and thallax 1500
search and destroy
heart of battle
couldn't get comptroller onto an objective until t2

>>96926259
A small price to pay.

>>96926261
I do not trust thralls. So they have Cool 12, but can't they still be made to test for Panic on their comptroller's Ld?
And they will lose Combat. Their Ld won't decrease with casualties...but they can still Lose, right?

>>96925361
tylenol level: extra strength

>>96926542
no because all the Comptroller (X) dudes have Command or Sergeant, so you can choose whether or not to test on their Characteristics instead of using the lowest value in the unit

>Their Ld won't decrease with casualties

everybody's Ld is reduced for the post-fight break test by the difference between the two combat scores if they lose, there's no Inexorable, Stubborn or Fearless any more

but for Thralls it's never worse than a -2 modifier if you're testing on their own Ld; it's true they'll be testing on Ld2 regardless if they come up against melee elites and the necromancer hasn't prepared them for fighting

Started working on the librarian tonight, and also the final state of the delegatus i finished last night because I don't think I posted it

>>96926831

Thralls actually do have a Stubborn-type rule thanks to Rite of Pure Thought. No reactions/Volley, but they don't take Ld checks from shooting and their deaths don't count for combat resolution in melee, so you can lose your whole unit of Thralls and the techpriest still tests on full leadership unless there are other modifiers in play. I've seen an Archmagos in a Thrall squad of 24 take over 50% casualties and then break and chase off six Terminators because after two termies got bonked to death by the power fist they were at a grand total of -3 combat res.

>>96926831
>>96926848
Oh yeah I wouldn't get in combat with an Archmagos wearing a Thrall shield, I was talking regular unMaster-Sarge'd Techpriests. Whom I'm probably underestimating lol.
I think it may be unfair, but won't Phosphex' Panic 3 break their Ld8 Techpriest?
Hmm I do want a means to win combat against a Thrall horde in melee, without needing to snipe the character first

>>96926889

Regular techpriests have surprisingly good Ld. They're Troops and there's a cheap detachment with a prime troop for Mech, so most of them are going to come in Combat Veterans or Master Sarge variants for Ld9 and probably better casting. They'll run against phosphex most of the time, but so will almost any unit including most Astartes elites.

They won't be casting cybertheurgy on a thrall squad, Feedback would kill 5/6 of the unit if they did, but having said thrall scoring points while the techpriest casts Overcharged Reactors on nearby friendlies and battlesmiths two thralls back per round is reasonably efficient for a 35-70pt character.

>>96926920
>having said thrall scoring points
And with Coolness 12, the only way to prevent that is to Panic their Ld8-9 sarge.
And with Thralls being lobotomized, the only way to score Combat Res against them is to have a Vexilla, because you're not going to outnumber them, you're not going to waste Company/Legion Standards on them, nor will you always be a Word Bearer.
At most you could have 2 vexillas from a Centurion and his unit. Master sarges can be issued duels, though.

>>96926983

Yeah, my techpriests are usually Combat Vets because it makes their cybertheurgy and battlesmith better and they're pretty dreadful at fighting anyway unless they're Myrmidax or Malagra, neither of which get anything from Comptroller. If the Thrall squad gets in melee you're mostly looking at the techpriest axing one or two, not any kind of significant damage, and you might actually get the outnumber with tacs/despoilers because Thralls do die quite quickly.

I am steadily moving away from Thralls as standard scoring units because Thallax seem to do better, but the Lacry Archmagos in a small unit of Thralls has actually done quite well, since he spawns 4 a round and scores as Line 2, plus he's tough enough to run off most annoying melee units with his fist.

>>96926848
but that only applies to their own Leadership, the Magos or whatever doesn't have Rite so you could (tho why would you) go down to Ld2 testing on that, but I did forget about Rite (and the DA RoW etc)

there's a danger of getting another friendly unit locked in the same combat and having to count their losses because they're not subject to Rite, and there's the danger of losing something in a Challenge in that combat, both of which could reduce even an Archmagos significantly in the Resolution

>>96927162

Possible, of course, but usually I'm willing to take my chances on an Archmagos in a challenge, they're just so incredibly tanky. I don't need perfect morale, I just need them to hang in there to score while the actual killy units do the work.

Honestly Cybernetica has a lot of luck there, it's so much easier for them to run lots of dangerous scoring units at low opportunity cost. Macrotek, Malagra and Myrmidax can't get Comptroller at all without eating mixed faction penalties and requiring an extra Cybernetica priest.

I'm hoping the new 30k Skitarii come with unlocked Arcana, a basic infantry unit that any priest can score with would make Mech lives much easier.