Thread 96940347

True scale cata Edition

>Previous Heresy: >>96930005

>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N

>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8 (embed)
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS (embed)
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp (embed)
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/3.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics
>Legions Imperialis Army Builder
https://legionbuilder.app/

>Thread question:
Can you articulate specifically why you don't like the new models or are you okay with them?

>>96940347 (OP)
>Can you articulate specifically why you don't like the new models or are you okay with them?
Yes. I dont like that theyre cataphractii because I cant use them.

Also they might be a bit too thin around the waist area.

>>96940347 (OP)
The chest armour should have been barrel-shaped, it tapering towards the waist gives them such a weird slender look. Almost like it is just a version of Mk III power armour.

>>96940347 (OP)
They feel lighter as if it could match the speed of Tartaros armor.

>>96940379
They are really thin around that area, especially on the ones where you can see the divide in torso and waist plates.
I dunno they just look like some guy in power armor. They look like someone's true scale conversion using power armor torsos and terminator legs.
Also the upper pauldrons don't move anymore so the lower arms are trapped in those positions, you can't rotate them to change the pose around. These fuckers are more monopose than even the new marines.

>>96940424
>Also the upper pauldrons don't move anymore so the lower arms are trapped in those positions, you can't rotate them to change the pose around. These fuckers are more monopose than even the new marines.
Are we sure of that?

>>96940347 (OP)
>tq
The waist is stupid thin for a terminator and the power fists look awful
Those hip plated coming down to their knees are also pretty weird
But above all else the split into 2 kits with different weapons, none of which are lighting claws is fucking retarded
This with 6 man boxes? Why? Wtf were they thinking?

>>96940441
Look at the OP pic. Arms are bent and upraised but the pauldrons don't move at all. It's like the allarus terminators the arms just plug in under the curve.

>>96940453
>This with 6 man boxes? Why? Wtf were they thinking?
They were thinking the customer tolerance for this sort of thing can be pushed more.

>>96940453
>Why? Wtf were they thinking?

>>96940466
If the pauldrons are attached to the arm, rather than the torso, you could probably still turn the arms

>>96940347 (OP)
I don't like that stupid pattern of big and small rivets on the chest

Anyone have any experience with deep striking terminators? Im considering a small squad of 5 atramentar with combi meltas and maybe a heavy flamer, to drop in and explode a tank and then be a nuisance in melee.

>>96940347 (OP)
>Can you articulate specifically why you don't like the new models or are you okay with them?
Breachers? Nothing wrong with them, they are fine
Catas? Whenever I look at them I think
>damn, why do these tartaros have such wonky pauldrons
it's simply not bulky enough

>>96940347 (OP)
>Can you articulate specifically why you don't like the new models or are you okay with them?
Sure.
>Cataphractii
The boys have lost their characteristic bulk and been given a plethora of design cues I loathe, from the nu-style elbows to the overly flappy hip plates to the dumb nu-foot design. They're too lanky, their weapons look anywhere from average (Sword, hammer) to laughably shit (power fist) and the new kit design and separation is just more layers of fuckery to make the kits less modular and more expensive.
>Breachers
A mixed back. I don't like Nu-3 as a base, but putting that to one side, the shields are fine to good, but they just expose how retarded the 2-hands-on-bolter change was, since now all breachers have to have this one bolter pattern. I don't personally care for the drum mag, though that's personal taste, but the grav gun's clearly seen a bunch of changes to accommodate plastic (1 row of nubs instead of 2, different muzzle), and it doesn't look good. They could've kept the old design with a bit more work (Note how volkite stayed about the same despite having similar muzzle issues), but that's just not on the cards, is it?
>Skittles
I think the legs are too long, and I worry those cloaks will be too monopose, but they might be workable. More options would be nice.
>Vultarax
Beautiful. Perfect. Moisturised.
In reality, I don't doubt some people more familiar with the line will find small issues I wouldn't disagree with, but on the whole it looks good.

....thats it? might as well just stick with the old, slap some greenstuff in the waist if you care so much about "muh scale"

i'm just gonna stick with the old, at least all my resin upgrades work

>>96940347 (OP)
>TQ
The new Cata models suck because they have next to no options in the box, and you get less of them than before.
I actually like the new Breachers and Skitarii.

>>96940347 (OP)
>tq
Their scaling and proportions and futuristic design go perfectly with Tartaros armor but cataphractii is supposed to be the hard working brick shithouse. This kit doesn’t look like they’ll ever have issues moving or running which is fucking crazy

>>96939880
>Lorewise, why didn't destroyer squads go and make phosphex flamers? Why is it that they're stuck with two bolt pistols, a slightly more effective flamer or go directly into DAoT level guns like the Disintegrator?
What would depleted uranium bolt pistol stats be like? Gotta be pistols; the bolts wear down the shooting weapon fast, so less barrel is preferred.
...also remind me what Nemesis Mortifier bolters do, now that Seekers cause Panic themselves?

Tl;dr I'd give Destroyers access to:
>Every destroyer
AP3 Disintegrator
Toxiferran flamer
Melta bombs
>One in five special weapon
AP2 Disintegrator
Toxiferran heavy flamer
Double plasma pistols (currently can replace only one)
One phosphex bomb

On top of the depleted uranium bolt pistols, ofc.

>>96940625
Congratulations you've made some weird special weapons squad that are not destroyers. Any proposal that starts with stripping destroyers of their identity of primary weapons being twin pistols is basically just asking GW to go all the way and delete them. Hope that helps.

>>96940424
>the upper pauldrons don't move anymore so the lower arms are trapped in those positions, you can't rotate them to change the pose around. These fuckers are more monopose than even the new marines.
Some people will look at that and still defend that old isn't good and new isn't bad

>>96940532
I don't know what is wrong with the new guy. He's better proportioned than the unironic hump backed previous version, with arms coming out his ears, and yet the new guy looks worse and too lanky?

>Can you articulate specifically why you don't like the new models or are you okay with them?
chicken leg

>>96940625
Nah, let them dual wield disintigrator pistols. 10ppm for two. Let them explode in one volley of glorious D2 death.

>>96940663
simple, he's "realistic"

the suit isnt meant to be "realistic", its meant to be bulky, slow and archaic, of which "realistic" proportions break, he's not scrunched in there

>>96940663
Its because hes better proportioned. He got taller but didnt get wider, and now he looks lankier. He looks like an up-armored space marine rather than a whole other suit of all enclosing armor. Its especially prominent around the torso.

>>96940644
The day Veterans can't all bring Disintegrators, that's the day I'm not asking for the very same for Destroyers, the actual wielders of proscribed weaponry.

>>96940644
>twin D pistols
fixed

>>96940532
pretty much what i was going to do as well anyway. the epoxy might not even be necessary, you can probably fill the torso socket with some sprue shavings and plastic glue to close a decent portion of that gap.
this has been the year of anti-FOMO because everything new has come with an asterisk. i'm really starting to worry i didn't find cheap MKIVs fast enough

>>96940678
>let them dual wield disintigrator pistols
Aight. Add it to the 1 in 5 options no problem

>The 12 books that make up this collection will include:
>Horus Rising by Dan Abnett
>False Gods by Graham McNeill
>Galaxy in Flames by Ben Counter
>The Flight of the Eisenstein by James Swallow
>Fulgrim by Graham McNeill
>The First Heretic by Aaron Dembski-Bowden
>Prospero Burns by Dan Abnett
>Know No Fear by Dan Abnett
>Betrayer by Aaron Dembski-Bowden
>Praetorian of Dorn by John French
>The Master of Mankind by Aaron Dembski-Bowden
>Slaves to Darkness by John French

Do you think it's a valid selection? If you had to pick exactly twelve HH novels to summarise yhe whole series, would you choose the same?

>>96940821
No, im serious, let them all do it. Make it 10 or 15pts as an option (maybe even 7 idk).
3e Disintigrator weapons are (the high end asides) not very good, or rather "not so good you need to worry about them".

Two overloading S4 Ap3 shots per destroyer is fine, considering their basic grenades are S4 Ap3 poison 2+.

>>96940832
>prospero burns instead of thousand sons

>>96940691
>>96940694
Guess they really did de-hunch him huh. I also think it's the protruding shoulders' fault though

>>96940843
Its also worth mentioning that destroyers are already the "glass cannon" unit option even without more expensive pistols that overload. I think there is no possible balance issue with giving them universal access to disingigrator pistols, and that it would simply help them feel like a warcrime unit (and be worse than the volkite anyways, just like D guns are worse than vokite chargers)

>>96940843
Plasma pistols have often been reserved for exalted or at least sergeant class warriors, so I'm loathe to equip an entire squad with them. Same for Disintegrator pistols.
I also remember when disintegrators were so rare it would take an entire destroyer squad to carry one, and Seeker sergeants were the only ones outside of officers to be trusted with them. Now they're a dime a dozen.

>>96940644
>weird special weapons squad
Didn't you hear? Rad grenades are a ranged weapon now. They are a weird special weapons squad. A war crime special weapons squad.

>>96940909
>Now they're a dime a dozen.
Yes, and you can - fairly- lament that disintegrator weapons were "demoted" to a normal weapon type rather than remaining superweapons. But they are that now, and I think discussions of their use and access should have that in mind.

On that topic: I am also entirely fine if destroyers have access to two plasma pistols each. I think it could work just fine in terms of balance with the current destroyers.

>>96940925
Also a phosphex bomb, things nasty.

>>96940883
No, seriously. A full squad of double disintegrator dudes will kill like 7 marines, a squad of volkites kill 8. While the disintegrators get much better into vets (or equivalent, so bikes and stuff) they also get a LOT worse the second they go into 2+ armor, and have their "self harm" potential to consider.

Disintigrator weapons are perhaps excessively balanced, and you can basically hand them out like candy because the risk of something breaking from it are basically nonexistent.

>>96940832
these are all the books that they have in permanent stock/reprint for years already except prospero burns so my choler is twisted
wish they reprinted some other entries in the heresy man

>>96940843
I'd take just two hand flamers desu

>>96940994
And they would probably be more cost effective!

But thats besides the point. Give destroyers their impractical suicide weapons.

Saw this and it reminded me of 3.0 and the redesigns.

>>96940347 (OP)
From the mechanicum reveals: let's just say I'm glad I finished building my army last week and I don't have to worry about picking any of the new stuff
For the breachers: eh whatever, I don't need them because I'm similarly almost done collecting all the kits for my word bearers but...yeah those are breachers. It's fine. Wish they didn't lose meltaguns and flamers for it.
For the cataphractii: wow, thanks GW for making the same shitty 1" spacer people were using to turn their models into crappy lanklets with anorexia just part of the kit despite everyone waiting for a proper reproportion that made them properly bulky monsters compared to marines. I'm sure tortuga bay appreciates the free advertisement. Funny how I saw a kit on cults that makes the 40k Terminators into cataphractii that look way better than this, I'll have to download that before GW finds it
Image for blogpost, wrapping up the librarian

>>96940453
>Wtf were they thinking?
One sprue, doubled. But I bet they'll spin it as 5-man unit and a cataphractii centurion sooner or later.

>>96940832
the absolute skeleton facts of the heresy cutting out all side missions are probably
>Ullanor
>Davin
>Istvann III
>Isvann V
>Calth
>Molech
>Pluto
>Terra
Of those, Molech, Thramas and Terra basically have no coverage while Ultramar and Istvann III get two books worth.

>>96940532
I'm starting to wonder if adding some heavier trim to the bottom of the torso will fix it. Not everything, of course, as the arms are still fucky. Maybe dropping them slightly will help and then lengthening the pteruges do the elbow.

>>96940347 (OP)
Has everyone decided that the new cataphractii are shit and the old ones are super based trad aryan masterpieces of kinorino chungus goodness?

I just want to know what to be contrarian about

>>96941232
I think someone needs to photoshop the arms of the old ones onto a new one first, see how it looks

the arms and weapons are bulkier on the old ones, might help the sillhouette

when are we getting primaris chaos marines?

>>96941256
I think its safe to assume old hood new bad.

>>96941256
>>96941413
literally nobody complains about other models
breachers are fine
skitarii are fine
flying automata is fine
catas are a fucking stinker

>>96941256
>trying to be contrarian in the general that actually LIKES 3.0
many have died trying

>>96941256
Thinking one thing is bad doesn't make the other thing good, stop with the childish mentality.

>>96941340
Very true, and the old kit certainly comes with enough extra arms.

>>96941413
I like the breachers. The mohawk doesn't look bad but is also an easy fix for those that don't want it.
My only complaint is that it'll probably be the first kit they don't double up on so we get one lascutter per ten guys instead of two, but I recognize that's an unreasonable complaint since we haven't seen the sprues yet. Might be done up in sets of five with two of each special weapon for all I know.

>>96941256
They have thin waists, but so did the resin and plastic ones so it's hard to get too mad.

The clamshell power fist is certainly a choice, but having plastic power mauls and thunder hammers for them is nice

>>96940691
Cataphractii especially is suppose to be fat as fuck. They leaned to much into the new skinny jeans design philosophy. All they had to do was make the old models a little taller.

>>96940347 (OP)
>Can you articulate specifically why you don't like the new models or are you okay with them?
Everything but Catas is cool. Catas on the other hand...
>Gap between pauldrons too big
>Pauldrons are too high
>Hip plates are too long
>Bolters too long
>Power fists too small
>Waist too small
>Lack of fancy details and trims
They look like someone's attempt of converting Tartaros into Cataphractii.

>tq
Yeah, because it is a massive waste of a new plastic kit. Even if you like their proportions more, their poses and aesthetic aren't really different, and the weapons almost assuredly will be more annoying kitbashing and conversion.

Can you run legion specific termies in the forges of saturn apex detachment?

>>96941817
None but the deathwing, who have cataphractii and tartaros in their name because they're the only unit that can still wear both armors

>>96941805
> and the weapons almost assuredly will be more annoying kitbashing and conversion.
We get all the power weapons in plastic instead of having to buy resin upgrade kits AND they get plastic thunder hammers now, it's a straight upgrade

PLASTIC VORAX WHEN GW??

>>96940347 (OP)
Wait do they really not come with LC when everybody runs them with dual LC?

>>96941775
Honestly, the new ones look like tartaros with smaller pauldrons.

>>96941914
Brother they don't even come with 5 thunder hammers, when everybody runs then with 5 thunder hammers

>>96941865
>+plastic power weapons
>-design
>-cost¨
>-box size

>>96940949
>Disintigrator weapons are perhaps excessively balanced, and you can basically hand them out like candy because the risk of something breaking from it are basically nonexistent.
I think regular disintegrators could stand being full AP2
>Nooo muh infantry deleters
S4 AP2 would fail to wound a marine half the time, and would only wound a terminator 1/3 of the time. And then have to go through their 4++, so that's 1/6. Which is the same roll to blow up, so I don't think it'd be that overpowered.

>>96941775
You took one of the bad examples of cataphractii, as they are T-posing with those pauldrons in the Fully Erect position.
Not everything in Visions is to be imitated.

>>96942082
>cata
>PHAT
>rii

>>96940347 (OP)
I like the new automata but im not excited about the price

>>96941865
>plastic thunderhammers
1 hammer per $90 is not "a win" in any way
That's $450 to make a single 5man hammer squad with the nuHammer in the shitty ugly nuKit. I'll just buy better looking resin thunderhammers elsewhere for 1% of the price.

Power fist apothecaries

>>96942207
>thinks they're going to be $90 for 5

>>96942082
>Not everything in Visions is to be imitated.
Low testosterone take. We should have never depart from the Visions in the first place.In the perfect timeline HH would be a decades-spanning event with aesthetic based solely on Visions, followed by a Unification Wars prequel with the cheesiest Blanshitsu aesthetic possible.

>>96942217
Thunder hammer apothecaries

>>96940532
I expected them to be bigger

>>96942277
That's not as funny

>>96940429

Don't bother with HSS troopers, just grab a regular TSS and load them up with dirt cheap normal alchem-flamers. Same great poison 2+ taste, a fraction of the cost, to the point it's probably quite efficient just to load Rhinos up with them instead of spending the squad's cost again on a Warmonger.

Mortus Poisoners can do the same thing somewhat better, but they're a fair bit more expensive and the main advantage they have is a phosphex bomb, so I can see why you'd go either way there.

>>96942304
>Powerfists actually the same size as regular gauntlet
Yikes.

>>96942304
Don't trust mini compare it's a lying whore

>>96942304
man those fists are pathetic
more like power gloves

>>96942325
Fair, it's lied to me before
But if it's correct I won't feel bad about not picking these up

>>96940532
The torso should be much bigger. Currently the new cats look like bad true scale conversions.

>termie pattern that's all about being fat slow piece of shit
>slim it down

>>96940832
>no battle for the abyss
INTO THE TRASH IT GOES

>>96942426
>4.0
>there's no tartaros
>saturnine is the big fat heavy variant
>cataphractii is just bulky tactical marines with a better save

>>96942436
Old models in clean modern paintjobs are kino

>>96942233
Theres many things I would have...

>>96942233
...and some that I wouldn't. Bullock Jetbikes when, though?

>>96941340
better, but give me a moment for true glory...

>>96942582
>Bullock Jetbikes when, though?
After the latest model refresh, I'm not sure I want GW to make them any more.

>>96942304
If that's what power fists are like...then what are the regular gauntlets like? Baby hands!

>>96942600
better
now add breacher barrel chest

>>96942406
Fucking hate truescale

>>96940347 (OP)

I think the new Skitarii Battle-Pilgryms(TM) will fit in perfectly with existing Mechanicum units and aesthetics

>>96942600
on right, less sharply triangular chest, slightly wider waist in general
wider legs by a bit and shorter legs
the main problem is its a marine on platform boots without adjusting the legs

>>96942720
I should not question his will, but why would the Omnissiah share this revelation with us

>>96942728
>Step on Loyalists.

>>96942453
Dogshit book

>>96942677
right actually looks decent, unlike the actual kit I won't be purchasing.

Working on my Auxilia rapiers today. What are you working on this weekend hhg?

>>96942720
CYBERNETIC WHORES

>>96942831
Refining settings and printing more Dark Mech Ohm transports

>>96942881

Sick. What are you running those as?

>>96942881
Damn I really want to see those painted because your other stuff looks pretty fucking good

>>96942767
How fucking dare you, it's one of the best books in the series. *wet leopard growl*

>>96942881
>Ohm
Is that a typo or did you mean to spell it like the unit of electrical resistance, rather than the Nausicaa bug?

>>96942059
>I think regular disintegrators could stand being full AP2
Yea, probably. As it exists theyre far too niche to be any good imo. Theyre literally only useful for VEQ, expensive, and kill you (on expensive models).

At full Ap2 they would at least be good at heavy infantry killing, but as is theyre basically meme guns.

>>96942897
>>96942901
Thanks anons, will.be running these as dark mech triarios transports and then a smaller version with no eyes and more claws as termite transports

>>96942674
As a leg man, I enjoy and will partake in the new Battle-Pilgryms(tm)

>>96942674
>>96942720
why they give me bonner

>>96942600
>>96942677
>Bare ceramite armour with yellow fist elements
Woah nice termies Knight Anon :^)

>>96942903
OH MY SCIENCE IS DAN ABNETT IN THE CHAT RIGHT NOW

School me about troops. I'm of the belief Tacticals are for contesting objectives in the middle, and can contest objectives in the enemy's zone if supported.
But I don't believe in them for securing the rear objectives at home? Like, those bolters will stand there, away from the fighting, doing nothing... Maybe Sniper Recons can do that...

>>96942453
Patricians taste in literature

>>96943100
>OH MY SCIENCE IS DAN ABNETT IN THE CHAT RIGHT NOW

>>96942968
thousand sons can make use of it with saturnine centurions though

>>96943170

Usually the memes are overwrought but this is a pretty good take on the Age of Darkness community.

>>96943111
>Like, those bolters will stand there, away from the fighting, doing nothing...
Yes, but they will get you points. You can afford to have 100pts of marines not doing much shooting wise if it gets you 4+ pts over the course of a game.

>>96942674
>>96942720
Yo why is this getting me kinda bricked up

>>96943111
buddy those bolters are going to be doing nothing no matter where on the board your tacticals are, unless your opponent takes pity on you and gives you a "I'm bringing 900 T3 armorless infantry" militia list to fight

>>96943258

>Such balance

It's one of the most idiotic game balance decisions that most Astartes are armed with boltguns, Astartes are the most common unit type in the game, and boltguns are basically useless against Astartes. Why would you want to spend points on an ineffective unit?

>>96943301
because the unit has a bolted on special rule that makes it very good at standing in nondescript random circles on the battlefield so even though it will do fuck-all in the actual game somehow it will single-handedly win you the game. This is good game design because in video games like Over Watch 2 and Valorus there are glowing blue spots to stand in, and now we can experience that in the table top.

>>96943301
>The game! The game! The game!
Fuck right off back to 40k you fucking tourist.

>>96943301
But they're not ineffective. A unit of 10 tactical marines has 30 boltgun shots, which will on average kill 5 marines. They only have to shoot twice to make their points back assuming they only fire at other tactical marines, and if it's marines armed with expensive and important weapons like meltaguns or lascannons than their cost effectiveness skyrockets because those marines have the same defensive profile as tacticals but cost 2 or 3 times as much. And this is before you even get to their scoring capabilities! Tactical marines are one of the strongest anti-infantry shooting units in the game once you incorporate their price and versatility.

>>96943335

Oh, I'm no tourist.

>>96943337
how do you get 5 marines from 30 shots.
30*(4/6)*(3/6)*(2/6) is 3.33

>>96943344
>Ligma
Even worse, you don't exist.

>>96943367

In my area Epic is more popular than big heresy.

>>96943170
I hate that Warhammer discussion is now nothing but powerscaling niggerdry now
I hate it so much it makes me physically ill

>>96943170
>>Why are whorus heresy fans like this?

>>96943425
get over it you pussy
look at the powerscaler in the eye when he spout shit; "whoever sells better wins the fight" shut them down hard

>>96943425
>Warhammer discussion
It's mostly just a HH & 40k thing. The fantasy and specialist games don't really have the same issue.

>>96943463
but clearly griff oberwald is best boy

>>96943096
That is an old callback.

>>96943301

You know I've always kind of liked this, because the fact that the standard Astartes loadout is kind of ineffective against other Astartes is one of the things that contributes to the early Heresy battles being so brutal and coming down to hand-to-hand knife fights so often. Most societies arm their troops with weapons good at killing targets like them, but Great Crusade marines are armed, for want of a better phrase, for bullying.

>>96943520
better times; remember when death guard had monopoly on phosphex and pickelhaube memes ?

>>96943532
A simpler age. When GW threw some rules at us and told us to "just figure it out" when ever models were involved.

>>96943364
Fists player?

>>96943633
never thought i'd miss 2016 but here we are. nearly 10 years later. everything got worse

>>96943663
It always does.

>>96943532

Well the loyalist stans at GW saw Death Guard with phosphex snd said "How about we write it so the Dark Angels do all that but better."

>>96943711
yeah, i know; feels weird talking to friends who had kids recently.
maybe humanity's a lost cause; too retarded to achieve anything

>>96943258
I saw Tacticals do well back in 2.0. Saw them use whichever gimmick (DG / IW / AL) to fire that Fury off, especially in rapid fire range and bam - 5 enemy marines dead, that's a Morale test. Return Fire with them Las HSS, I don't care, they are cheap enough to outnumber them.
So I was thinking, at least DG and AL can still do that trick. And now triple shot range has expanded to full 24".
This is my Theoretical bone speaking...but wouldn't that mean they're even better now? Practicalchads unironically please change my mind, but the numbers say they are better.
And Inductii are even cheaper and you don't need Compulsory Tax anymore? Daaamn

>>96943641
if he was a fists player 10 stationary tacticals kills 4 marines instead of 3 marines, that's not 5 marines, anon is just a dumb faggot who has never played the game.

>>96943633
by 2016 they'd literally FAQd everything released up to that point and even edited some units for the standalone red army books

get fucked casual

>>96943364
Different guy here, I used units of 15, and 45 shots do get you those 5 casualties. By the time they get to shoot not everyone is alive, but the same is true of the enemy

>>96943734
that has very little to do with loyalism; you were not there; you did not see the shitstorms when magnus could shit out D spells with 18" radius and was the msot busted primarch ever (lorgar was second)

>>96943170
How is the Age of Darkness community anyway? I’m in South NJ (near Philly) and finally got around to building the first boxed set, the MKIII boxed set, and eventually Saturnine. I think the models look pretty cool. I’ll be doing Thousand Sons. I like the idea of my dudes from the Pyrae Arcanae were in the middle of a campaign and got the word that Prospero went tits up, now they’re on the run looking for friend or foe.

>>96943768
i remember the many delays of inferno

>>96943748
as somebody who runs 40+ tacticals every single game in 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0, I can tell you that besides the VP bonus they get they feel worse than they ever have before.

The increased range means fuck all when terminators now run around at T5 2W, vets at 2W, etc. And statistics mean fuck all when you're dealing with less than 10,000 dice rolls at a time.
I can throw 60 bolter shots at an enemy veteran fuckulator squad (any non-terminator squad kitted for melee) and kill 1, maybe 2 marines. Even into other tactical marines or like heavy support marines I'll be thankful to the dice gods for favoring me if a single unit can kill 3 enemies.

>>96943526
>Most societies arm their troops with weapons good at killing targets like them
I would've thought a Space society facing bigger things would've armed their soldiers with guns good at killing things bigger than themselves. You know, like Tau do.
Guess it's some Kardashev-like metric where your gun is as good as your faction is.

But yeah, I do love marines being so astonishingly hardy their fights always devolves into grappling.

>>96943784
>How is the Age of Darkness community anyway?
it's entirely dependent on where you live. if there's an active community then you won't have trouble getting games

>>96943793
fighting in warhammer 30/40k is retarded by their own terms.
outside of daemonic incursion there's no reason to fight on the ground.
they never adressed the whole "istvaan V could've been solved with a single cyclonic torpedo"
brits can't into warfare; more news at 11

>>96943793
I mean,isn't the point that marines fight like medieval warfare, and thus as in your very picture the arms race hadn't caught up yet to invalidate their "plate armor"

>>96943748
Tacticals were better in 2.0, heart of the legion gave them such a durability boost they could punch above their weight class. Being able to step back with a movement reaction, then return fire and/or overwatch made them quite daunting to engage.

But now? Cheap objective warmers, that's all tactical squads are. No more heart of the legion, apothecaries giving them 5+ fnp gone too. If they don't use a movement reaction to move off the point the vanguard units is gonna cash in, if they do they're now free target practice because no other reactions for that turn. Terminators got bumped to toughness 5, bolters barely scratch them now. The increase in LOS blocking makes it very hard to see anything worthwhile to shoot at if they also wanna keep standing on the objective.
All tacticals do now is rush onto an objective, get decimated, and have the next tactical squad move in and die after scoring.

>>96943789
>vets at 2W
Hey hold on, Vets were 2W in 2.0 and they were useless. Even with 1 less weapon skill, Terminators still minced them because Vets couldn't spam anything stronger than a power axe.
But now Assault Veterans can bring all the hammers not even Praetor Command Squads could bring back then. And now Assault Vets eat Termies for breakfast. So it's all about who wields the hammer, but I digress lol
...I guess VEQ weren't such a problem because there were used less before? Glad they're used now, though.

>>96943816
>All tacticals do now is rush onto an objective, get decimated, and have the next tactical squad move in and die after scoring.
and that's actual grim darkness and quite kino of GW to implement

>>96943784
>>96943795

Generally very unsportsmanlike, if you outplay them in a game they'll call your army broken, and demand you run underpowered units until they can beat you with no effort. They love beating on new players and smugly getting them with "gotcha" rules interactions, so expect to lose a lot at first.

>>96943812
I do like that Protective Technology advanced faster than Projectile Weapons did, which makes melee matter again. Dune's personal shields also kinda do that, idk which other franchise also has that.
I guess also Star Wars does, seeing how those jedi can parry blasters sometimes?

>>96943822
vets didn't have jump packs in 2.0 you moron
template were also nerfed hard on their weapon profile

>>96943839
so a bunch of insecure babies ? ditch them; they are not worth any hassle. bully them if possible; these are the scum of the earth

>>96943809
Seems like the problem is cyclonic torpedoes, rather than the excuses for fighting on land. When you have a planet-killing weapon, war would revolve on controlling the firing mechanism, no?

>>96943855
>vets didn't have jump packs in 2.0 you moron
I just said they weren't a thing in 2.0 you idiot

>>96943868

That's the community across much of the US. The solution is to play a different game.

>>96943784
it's the worst. They're so shit and low IQ they have an active policy of tricking new players that "rule of cool" is what the game is about and "you're not allowed to ask what gun or melee weapons are good in 30k, that's a 40k thing"

Then they spam thunderhammers and the meta phosphex rapiers and kratos, while the suckers they tricked into "rule of cool" instantly lose as plasmaguns are now peashooters and power swords are butter knives that don't even scratch a terminator in 30k's shit rules.

>>96943940
It’s really not

>>96943784
Hello fellow NJ anon. I don’t have much of an idea for down south but Red Seal around the middle of Jerz has a good community, I play there occasionally. If you’re really itching for a good group come to Gorgoncon this December, the north NJ/NY heresy guys are collating there and have made the game a blast for me these past few years.

Either way, here’s some pics of a game I had this Thursday. 3k IH (me) vs 3k blackshields.

>>96944006
Torg the dreadnought slams through a Veteran support squad holding the middle objective, sending them to an ugly death.

>>96944016
Autek Mor and his Morlocks have slain the enemy Leviathan’s keeper, and now aim to bring the beast down…

>>96944022
The last of his squad, a lone thallax escapes evisceration from angered veterans of the Great Crusade.

>>96944030
I love that tartaros there
>if this had been 2.0 I woulda had him
>fuck you james give me my sweeping advances back

>>96943526
Yet in the BL novels marines get casually gunned down by other marines with bolt pistols to the chest or easily sniped through eye lenses, or heavy bolters immediately kill them, or this or that or whatever is convenient for the hack writer at the time.

>>96943526
it's never been that way in the lore. Bolters and even bolt pistols absolutely melt space marines.
It literally never makes sense for space marines to get into melee combat against other space marines. Ranged weapons always hit harder and more effectively, the only benefit of melee is infinite ammunition - which makes sense against ork hordes on ullanor but makes zero sense against elite space marines (ammo would always outnumber space marine targets)

>>96943809
They couldn't just cyclonic torpedo the problem of the former warmaster of your entire fucking imperium away. They had to capture him and then execute him. If they just destroyed the planet (1) they couldn't confirm the kill, the planets don't immediately die, and his fleet was still out there he could have exiled (2) then the copy cats pop up on every other system declaring independence. That was the political reality

>>96943816
> Increase of LOS blocking
Confirmed for not playing the game

>>96944065
This
>>96944022
>Fuck you, make me

>>96944006
Fellow IH enjoyer I see nice dudes
>>96944022
Awesome pic.
Here have a group shot of my guys

>>96944136
space marine legions ? showing any mercy ? not in the great crusade for sure
i'm not saying the best course was to exterminatus everything in that system; but GW never ever bothered to give an actual reason about how they shouldn't and instead get on the ground assault

>>96943873
fucking up planets big time has been a core part of warhammer longer than the horus heresy at this point

>>96944136
they literally could have simply deleted the entire planet with zero drawbacks and only benefits. The imperium is a dictatorship ruled by a demigod who has so much swag that to even point your eyeballs in his direction as a human is to be permanently blinded, whose gentlest psychic nudge could rewrite your entire life.

Nobody other than primarchs had any ability to rebel against the imperium. What, do you believe planet1246223 who is utterly reliant on the astronomicon for any travel and trade and that knows the imperium deletes any planet of traitors instantly is going to "decide to go traitor" because Horus (the only traitor that's any threat to the dictatorship of the Emperor of mankind) has been wiped out? Not a snowball's chance in hell (and if they did, the imperium would simply spend 2-3 days and replace them with new administration)

Planets sided with Horus under the impression that a basically-immortal demigod and his enormous army would wipe them out otherwise and stood a chance of deleting emps. If Horus is gone, both the threat factor and the hope factor immediately hit 0/10 and there's zero carrot and zero stick.

At the time of Istvaan V, Fulgrim, Mortarion and Angron were all mortal and non-ascended so they'd have been deleted permanently by simply deleting the planet from space (along with all 3 of their traitor legions.) Horus was still mortal and didn't have the god-powers until he entered the realm of chaos on Molech several years later, so the entire Sons of Horus would have permanently been eradicated too. Perty, Alpharius, Lorgar and Konrad were all 4 also mortal (though not on the planet yet and not known as traitors) - they'd have gone loyal seeing Horus+angron+morty+fulgrim already eradicated before the reinforcement fleet even arrived.

>>96944184
Never said it wasn't. I'm saying it is planet-cracking Torpedoes specifically that are the problem: we just saw how bloodied marines were able to survive a Virus bomb with a mere minutes' warning.
The same way, it can be argued some fortresses can be hardened to such an extent they can survive exterminatus of the Lance/glassing kind, not to mention their orbital guns can repel any ship in sight.
The only way to defeat that without a ground assault is to go to the other side of the planet and have a Two-Stage Cyclonic Torpedo physically blow up the planet appart.
There is no defense against that besides intercepting the missile, which isn't always feasible.

>>96944284
>Oh yeah? Well this abandoned planet is actually covered in an anti-exterminatus web
For real blow them up from orbit. The only possible way a rebellion could go on is by having rebel Primarchs never set foot on a planet again, for fear of loyalists blowing them up.
Or maybe in a planet too important to blow up. But I can only think of Terra and Mars. Maybe Luna, and that's a big maaaybe.

>>96944330
>The only way to defeat that without a ground assault is to go to the other side of the planet and have a Two-Stage Cyclonic Torpedo physically blow up the planet appart.
>There is no defense against that
an GW; in their retarded stance; never ever talked about that
for fuck's sake they make a big deal that 90% of the salamanders legion was destroyed by nuclear missiles to make a dumb as shit dune refference

There's an argument for not wasting the lives and equipment of three hundred thousand marines by executing them from space, but considering how inductii were produced and how calous the Emperor is now really why wouldn't they just go to the far side of the planet and start busting it up and then assault the fleet while they're trying to pick up the ground troops.

>>96944374
oh yeah, the nuclear attack in the center of the istvaan battlefield is extreme british retardation.
Space marine power armor is not nuke-proof. Firing a nuke in the middle of that battle would have cooked all the troops of the SoH+WE+DG+EC+WB+IW+AL+NL, wiping out all 8 traitor legions other than the Thousand Sons (the only ones not present)

Some terminator suits might've had rad-shielding, but the entire traitor cause would've been eliminated to try to strike vulkan.

>>96944393
a fucking drop pod assault in a giant canyon when you have space supremacy (the new glorified flyers emphasize on that ) is still my dealbreaker. i'll gladly mock the retards who defend the heresy

Are there any good solo scenarios to play with? Preferably ZM or even squad size stuff. I feel like I keep letting my biases effect the missions I draw up for myself so I want to try some other material for inspiration (yes I have no friends at the moment).

>>96944374
>firing nukes
Isn't that a bit archaic? Like, even regular ship torpedoes probably do equal damage with less complexity. Most radiation weapons in the Imperium tend to be dirty bombs used for the radiation, not for their explosive yield.
>>96944406
Destroyers are all about radiation weapons and they're not killing themselves.

>>96940347 (OP)
So that's how Space Marines look in corsets.

>>96944459
the salamander legion was destroyed by perty's ICBM; that's the fucking canon

>>96944485
Lmao

>>96944519
But was it a fission warhead or something else? Stuff like the Deathstrike have plasma warheads as standard and can take other types like vortex warheads.

>>96944374
>>96944406
>Space marine power armor is not nuke-proof.
It kinda is. Unironically, as long as you are in the shadow and aren't insta-cooked by the bright light, your main problem is the shockwave.
Power armoured space marines might survive said shockwave.
In fact Salamander marines may be the WORST legion you could drop a nuke on, as their fire and rad resistance is maxed out. They are basically wearing a rad suit under a silver suit under their armour. No wonder Cassian Dracos survived lmao.
>>96944459
Destroyers ARE killing themselves. They have to be rotated or else they go Vanguard Skitarii from their own rad guns.
I bet Salamanders would be able to survive wielding rad guns like DG do alchem...but they chose not to, out of dogma.

>>96944557
Modern warheads are fusion (H-bombs), but marines (and Salamanders more so) could survive that

>>96944441
>when you have space supremacy
This. Maybe one of the few possible scenarios is if the Phall ambush had happened directly on Istvaan's orbit, and the fleet was forced away from supporting the land war?

Did all world eaters have the nails?

>>96944593
There may have been some forgotten expeditionary fleet that was too far away to rendezvous with the legion for Nail surgery.
Like Endryd Haar's company. There may be others like him

>>96944593
Some of them preferred screws

>>96944593
only the librarians

>>96944574
>Modern warheads are fusion
The fusion reaction is used to create more neutrons to enhance the primary fission reaction (which in turn fuels the fusion reaction with more heat and pressure, creating a positive feedback loop). Nukes are all about efficient fission. In the 50s we already had nukes that could be dialed to a desired yield by a simple control panel before being loaded onto a plane. All you had to do is adjust the efficiency of the fission. Castle Bravo, the biggest US nuke, was meant to be much smaller, but a cladding material reacted in unforseen ways, releasing more neutrons than expected and boosting the yield over double what it was intended.

>>96941038
Now here's a thing... while I understand your longing for the art style and glamou of the old design... the reality is that these old building were torn down FOR A REASON.
They were absolute festered with mold, cockroaches, rotting timbers and the kind of stairways that you really start to think "oh dear, do I dare to walk up these stairs without them breaking underneath me?"

I absolutely love the old style, but at some point you just have to admit that "this building is rotten to the core, and it would be genuinely easier to just fucking tear it down, and build a new building on it's spot.

Now, the second matter is "why didn't they make the new building pretty, like the old one?". And at that point the answer is boring old "Because MONEY!". A lot of the building in Europe in particular were is really bad shape after ww2, and new, fast, cheap construction styles and acrhitecture had come in saying "We could build that government bureacracy building for 20% of the cost of the old one". And if you have to rebuild the whole fucking continent... you take the cheap option.

Sad, but ...so it goes.

>>96944593
Librarians don't exactly mix well with the nails and they also weren't very popular with those who had them. Also yeah, guys like Haar were too distant.

>>96944607
>nail-less world eater expeditionary fleet
>special ability: sensitivity and kindness from their geneseed
I guess they'd do best reincorporated inside the Salamanders.

>>96944574
marines are killed by pointy sticks of wood, they absolutely COULD NOT survive a hydrogen bomb. Neither the proximity effects nor the radiation.

>>96943170
I agree with the sentiment but not the execution
Wojaks are cancer

>>96944734
Good luck, we're 100% black

>>96944758
>marines are killed by pointy sticks of wood
Space vietnam is unforgiving I guess lmao
A nuke is flesh-vaporizing radiation, then a fuck-off blastwave. Idk how many inches of lead ceramite armour is, and you'd need a mirror finish to reflect infrared (White Scars & Iron Warriors).
1 Megaton can cause a 15 PSI blast even at 7 km away, so... get under a table and think of the Emperor? Lmao

>>96941210
Wouldn't that mean there would be 2 heavy weapons on a 6 man unit that can only take 1?

Another week, another game of 3.0
>if you reply without posting a picture of a game or army you will suffer testicular torsion
Everyone's favorite, Take and Hold with Dawn of War deployment!
Unfortunately we were both retarded and misread the deployment map so enither of us put objs in our DZ. Or was it just as planned?
3.3k. I brought a heavy infantry list, my opponent brought a mendicant knight and armiger buddies. The knight proved significantly more impactful than a fellblade.
Telekinesis Librarians attached to random squad continue to be the bane of my existence, it's a bit surprising no one ever mentions them here.
Phraetus didn't do muchbut my opponent has so much ptsd from them that he intercepted with an armiger and the titan, which scattered a lot and killed 1 of his termies, 5 tacs, and 3 phraetus. The last glorious martyr killed 2 enemy tacs and a sekhmet, and 1 allied jorlund hunter who didn't have enough faith.
We called it turn 3 as I had no way to claim Giant Killer and he had twice as many units as I did. Hypothetical final was 21-17.
We're trying nu-ZM next week.

I wont reply on why its grey but why is that knight missing an arm

>>96944904

I always assumed the thing they threw at Vulkan was a smaller and more specialised thing than a modern ICBM, since it seems to have fairly neatly snipped out the last stand position of the Salamanders and that was about it. If you look at the map in the Black Book there's one damn big crater roughly where you'd expect the Salamanders to have fallen back to and been forced into a huddle at after betrayal, but the battlefield is 100km long even at the "narrow" end where the Traitor fortress is, I find it plausible that everyone else in power armour was basically fine if it was somewhat smaller than one megaton.

>>96944970
Equipped with 2x melta bullshit guns but he hasn't managed to get the bits yet

>>96940532
they are barely any large, the biggest difference between old minis and primaris/nu scale are the bigger/longer legs, but with these they look almost the same.

>slap some greenstuff in the waist if you care so much about "muh scale"
you can always base them over some plasticard or sprue part in the feet to make them look taller.

I want to learn about black shields. What books do I read

Alright my group is forcing us to use the honest heresy garbage, what's the best way for me to break it so I can get out of this 10th edition slop

>>96945239
The what now

>>96945201
Do a bunch of LSD whilst looking at your models.

>>96945239
Kill them and hide their bodies. Say what you want about 3.0 but it’s all better than whatever the hell that was. They should’ve been massed reported the second they put out missions with forced terrain placement

Could you proxy a Blightcrawler for anything in HH? Thought about grabbing one to stand in for a DG boxnaught but it seems smol

>>96945239
>>96945272
Honest Heresy? Forced terrain? I must've missed a book the couple weeks I was away

>>96945454
I heard arquitots share some design cues with blighcrawlers the same way vultarax do with Bligh drones. But I also heard their sizes don't match

>>96945636
Like with drones, the HH model is much larger. 40k crawler is about Rhino sized while Arquitor is modified (and reversed) Sicaran hull.

>>96945201
Make your up book writings maan

>>96944918
Weapon sprues are separate, probably exactly 6 sets of arms.

>>96944734
>Salamanders supposedly being nice guys while burning people alive
I guess it's ok if it's not dirty flame huh

>>96942233
Correct

>>96945454
It's close enough. A boxnought would never really be in a position where the meager difference would have an impact.

>>96945454
>Blightcrawler
>stand in for a DG boxnaught
You mean the blight-hauler? Maybe a Rapier with some fiddling with the guns?

>>96940347 (OP)
these are fucking atrocious
the skitarii are absolute ass too
the hunkered-down walking tank aspect has entirely been tossed aside
the power fists on them are potentially the worst i've ever seen
the hip plates are laughably nonsensical

if i were sedivalle i'd be cooking like a fiend right now on some radass badass cataphractii analogues to just mog gw to death shit is fucking ripe at this point holy hell

six models in a kit down from ten btw thanks james super beneficent of u
what a fucking car crash

>>96940347 (OP)
I don’t like them because the old models didn’t need a redo, James decided they did because THEY rescaled the existing marines. They could’ve been excusable despite the shit proportions but on top of that they were reduced to 6 in a pack with options split out. And where are the fucking dual lightening claws?

>>96946271
>the old models didn’t need a redo

sheer delusion

>>96946288
They didn't, the only reason why the did is because they are too small compared to the shit new marines, which nobody asked for

>>96946288
What needed changing about them? GW forced a scale increase it wasn’t an inevitably

>>96945454
>>96945636
the Plagueburst Crawler is the one that's almost Arquitor sized and shaped, the Blight Hauler is the one that's like a wheely dread

Are we allowed to post models in /hhg/?

>>96946323
Absolutely fucking not

>>96946323
this is very inconsiderate to the /nomodels/ swine masses and perhaps even moreso to those with greytides or projects underway

these new shitaphractii reminded me, a nogames, that I haven't seen rules for CREDO ANNIHILATO since 3.0 dropped. where can I find them so that my love for old rules may deepen? the downloads page is a mess. also post kinonators.

>>96944136
>>96944284
>>96943809

The closest we get to an explainations as to why they didn't just Nuke The Planet From Orbit is that a) Horus had a RLY GUD planetary void field set up over his forces and b) It's strongly implied that Ferrus Mannus was afraid everyone thought he might be a traitor due to his friendship with Fulgrim so he decided to be really, retardedly, over the top performative and came up with a battleplan that was more designed to make it clear that he was loyal, rather than have any great chance of actually beating Horus.

>>96946400
The black books say that Dorn ordered Ferrus to bring Horus corpse back for display on Terra.

>>96944157
Your IH are sick dude, love the dirty worn look and conversion, 10/10 would lose our dad again.

I still havent weathered my IH mastadon but I might wait till I try it on some infantry first.

>>96945036
>I find it plausible that everyone else in power armour was basically fine if it was somewhat smaller than one megaton.

This kind of raises the question of "Just what the FUCK did Iron Warriors DO to Tallarn, that the place is lethal within minutes to people even through power-armour that can tank a kiloton range nuclear weapon."?

>>96943839
>t. Senor Stinky Beardy Tourneygamer McCheesington, Esq
Bet you show up to narrative gaming groups with some ridiculous overtuned netlist and then whinge like the little fucking faggot baby you are when people refuse to play with you.

>>96946165

They're going to look like complete ass, and they're not even going to look remotely like the same unit when compared to any of the Legion specific Cataphract variants that GW still fucking make like Lerneans, Tyrants or Paladins.

>>96946400
there is literally none. The explanation of the void shield is "this specific valley is shielded from space guns" (only the valley)

Which, as 100% of the time is true, means the spaceships could just shoot the rest of the planet instead. Even Terra, the most defended planet in the entire universe, can only shield the imperial palace and Horus could've destroyed the planet literally at any moment he wanted. (Explicitly canon which is explicitly told for anyone so retarded they didn't realize it)

>>96944677
This is 100% after-the-fact copery being pushed by modernist and postmodernist subhumans now that the internet has revealed the truth to everyone: that almost everyone hates and have always hated their terrible fucking designs and the only reason they got away with it for so long was general modernist/postmodernist capture of civil society including media.

Funny how in every instance where preservation and restoration was chosen over demolition, those buildings still exist and are in great condition, meanwhile most of the ridiculous cuboids and bleak growling blocks you faggots threw up in place of perfectly viable classic architecture to prove how modern and trendy you were are crumbling shitholes that cost a fortune to maintain and keep standing upright because concrete structures can only last for 50 years or so without major remedial works while there are mass-stone buildings that have stood for centuries with nothing more than occasional repointing. All those "cheap" buildings are now either ruins, moldy & disintegrating dumps, or gigantic money pits.

The real answer to all the questions you bring up is not money, or safety, or practicality, but ideology. A few up-themselves poofters decided that actual beauty as defined by centuries of tradition and the continued opinion of ~90% of people was "pastiche", and used the post-WW2 reconstruction as a wedge to force their way to dominance of architecture and design, at the huge and continuing detriment of nature, society, culture, and the public realm.

When I become Mega High Heidyin Dictator For Life one of my first commands will be to construct a grand avenue of beautiful, ornate, traditionally styled buildings and line the entire processional with a series of classical statues, each sitting on a simple plain concrete plinth within each of which is a modernist shitstain like yourself buried alive.

>I will fix the new shit cataphractii
>Also me making even more shittier

>>96946490
The waist is so narrow it's starting to make me suspicious that they copied the same 5 nu-power armour poses in CAD, then added some extra armour and plates to turn it into cataphractii. Even the hands look like they're the new tiny power armour hands.

>>96946490

I do wonder if we're just seeing them at an odd angle, and straight-on they don't look so bad... but even then, that wont fix how apallingly shitty those powerfists look.
At least with the Mauls (WHY!?) you can easily convert them into Thunder Hammers, and MAYBE the fists would look better converted into a Chainfist? But it's trying to make the best of a completely unasked for bad situation. All we wanted was Cataphracts with the new 40k terminators proportions, right? What was so fucking hard with doing that?

>>96946509
I think old cata with couple of millimeters of green stuff on the torso was perfect

>>96946518

Anyone else annoyed with how Ligma models are getting better whilst HH models are getting worse.
Fuck, I wish that Ligma had a decent ruleset.

>>96946400
>He gestured at the display, bringing a section of Terra’s high orbit into focus.
>‘We are at bay. Horus could destroy us a thousand times over,’ said Sanguinius. ‘A comet strike, asteroid bombardment, a concerted salvo from his guns only. Any one of a dozen methods would render Terra into rubble.’
>‘That is not his intent,’ said Dorn. ‘If Horus wished Terra blasted down to the smallest atomic component, it could have been done weeks ago.

And Istvaan are insignificant worlds with a thousandth of the defenses.

Is there any fluff behind this symbol? Only place I can remember it being is on this cape, but I don't know if it's supposed to be Custodes specific or not.

Tortuga is always an option if you don't want to use the old plastic kit or the new skinny ones.

>>96946288
Fuck off tourist pleb

>>96946186
When first released the old box was five, as most old termi boxes were.

>>96946540
It's a combination of symbols
>Veteran cross
>Lightning bolts, probably fought in unification wars
>Imperial laurel, awarded for exceptional heroism and leadership

>>96946547
Yes, I got about 40

>>96946540
The eagle represents nazi germany and fascism

>>96946577
>lightning bolts, probably fought in unification wars
Sad, fits perfect on the catii librarian I am making.

>>96946451
You don't know who was Le Corbusier, do you
>>96946547
yeah, these look way better except for the thick knee pads

>>96946616
There are a number of terran-born marines who fought in the last years of the unification wars in most legions.

>>96946662
Yeah but it would be a stretch for a libby. I guess late heresy dudes were just cobbling shit together so I always have a cop out.

>>96940832
I would probably replace Praetorian of Dorn with The Buried Dagger. It's just an overall better book, and it just makes sense to include the last book in the core Heresy series.
Mortainan is just a more important and popular character

>>96946662
A lot of them got sent to Caliban and got killed by the Lutherians.

>>96944136
Wasn't the orbit of Istvan V contested? Even then there was a void shield surrounding where the traitors were positioned so a bombardment wouldn't have been effective

>>96942903
>oh no will my oddball ensamble be able to beat the sunday morning cartoon villains?

>>96946845
wrong on every single count

>>96944136
wait, you're so retarded you think a "Copycat" pretending to be Horus the Primarch would be too much for the imperium to handle?
Wow, that's impressive you were able to even find out how to post despite having a brain the size of a goldfish.
Horus very barely managed to defeat the imperium purely by having 9 traitor primarchs all at work.
A non-primarch is a 0% threat to the emperor. That is actual reality not your dumbfuck idea.

>>96946617
>>96944677
Your soul and mind is rotten to the core and should be torn down for the betterment of society.

>>96946617
>Le Corbusier
A faggot

>>96946547
Hopefully I can snag an old kit before they get completely phased out

>>96946547
looking at this got me thinking - I think the retarded side hip plate on new termies makes their legs fatter and thus making waist look thinner than it really is

>>96940424
How geedubs managed to fuck up power fists that much? So many years in the buisness and you push MANUFACTURE button on these?

>>96946617
>Le Corbusier
All of that kikebrained French elitist faggot’s buildings should be leveled with the ground and his body reburied beneath a brutalist urinal.
And you buried down there with him.

>>96946410
Virus bombs.

>>96945789
Classic, another Sallie Hater that can only regurgitate information acquired through dumb memes.

I got the Ligma Marine combat force and the marine infantry box for a good price, looking forward to trying it. Need to figure put how to paint them. Whays the best legion for like being playable in the most senarios fluff wise?

>>96946540
Yeah, the three regiments raised on Tanith at the same time. Don't know why a custodes would be wearing it 10000 years before it happened.

>>96940832
books 1-5 are default include

then it should be -
A Thousand Sons

Legion

Mechanicum
Master of Mankind

First Heretic
Know No Fear
Betrayer

The Dropsite Massacre should be required reading with books 1-5

>see this shit conversion in my facebook feed of a salamanders character, converted out of the stormcast character from the skaventide box
>only comment is asking "why is he white"
>completely forgetting that that stormcast hero is a woman

>>96947159
>see this shit conversion
Post it

>>96947159
Well, share with the class anon. Let us see the horrible conversion too.

>>96947198
>>96947208
i uh....I cant find it because FB sucks ass and apparently doesnt save the link on history for some reason, and just redirects you to the home page?

i'll have to look around groups for it

>>96947232
no wait I found it

Why are the power fists so tiny? Is it just the awful IW scheme and the angle throwing me off? Ir barely looks bigger than the normal arm.

>>96947252
That is suppose to be a salamander marine? Lol. Lmao, even.

>>96947259
If you look closely, you can see that the regular gauntlets on the nu-cataphractii are the same size as power armour gauntlets.

>>96947252
that is the worst lava I have seen in my entire life. It's literally worse than if they'd only used plain orange and nothing else. It looks like someone rubbed cheetos dust on top of mac n cheese.

>>96946502
>they copied the same 5 nu-power armour poses in CAD
That's not how digital sculpts work caveman-kun.

>>96946502
There's 6 of them not 5

>>96947313
Technically there's 3 and 3 mirrored.

>>96947259
>the virgin walk

>>96947282
Don't be obtuse, you know what he meant. All the new power armours are in the exact same five poses, there's a lot of copy-pasting going on. Arguing semantics won't change the facts.

>>96943344

Checked, also moar

>>96947252
That Son of Horus (femboy) lookin fire as the kids say

>>96947252
The worst part is that if that was an inquisitor or a legate Marshall or something it wouldn't even be that bad (other than presumably being too big)

>>96947344
They are in the same poses so they can be fully interchangeable and reuse the same upgrade packs. Blaming CAD for that is stupid because they do the same process they did when they hand sculpted them. They didn't sculpt every helmet or pauldron every time, they sculpted the armour pieces, skulls, trinkets and guns separately, made copies and assembled then around a wire skeleton, then resculpted joints or other such parts to make it look like a whole piece. They do the exact same process digitally.

>>96947390
Doesn't matter if it is done digitally or not, copy paste slop is copy paste slop.
It wasn't done for everything to be interchangeable with the upgrade packs. Only need the arms to be the same for that. It was done because the model designers at GW are untalented hacks who can only create cheap CAD slop.

Did people try to use rank and file Saturnites in DG armies with any success? And if yes then what load outs did you guys use.

>>96947252
Based.

>>96947429
Ooh, nice femstodes

>>96947422
The DG legion trait only interacts with the Heavy special rule specifically, it doesn't let saturnines move and still fire 2 ranged weapons.

>>96947414
They need the legs on the same poses so they work with the underslung heavy weapons since the torsos can't rotate anymore. That has nothing to do with slop or CAD you ignorant. You can't call someone an untalented hack when you have no idea how the tools or the pipeline works or what difference the change in tools make. You sound like one of those idiots that think digital art is made pushing a button and not actually drawinf.

>>96947459
They don't, stop coping. There also is zero reason for the torsos to be unable to rotate. Outside of GW being jews and wanting the new models to be incompatible with everything that came before.

GW isn't gonna pay you no matter how much you gobble their dick. Stop defending the poor billion pounds company

>>96947493
Notice how I'm not defending their actual design decisions, like keeping the torsos and legs as a single piece (even if I understand why they did it while not agreeing), just your stupid and ignorant judgement of digital tools or the sculpting process.

>>96947513
Keep strawmanning idiot. Don't need to be a master chef to recognise GW is serving you shit on a plate.

>>96946856
>>96946858
>>96946933
>retarded /pol/tard trad larper doesn't know that Le Corbusier was not just the father of modern arquitecture, but also an antisemitic fascist
> tourist falls into the trap and proves my superiority

>>96947539
Faggot

>>96947539
you do realize we can tell you're french right ?

>>96947539
Ofcourse it’s you being a threadshitting subhuman IG-shiteater.
This thread would improve a hundredfold if someone smashed your skull into a red smear like the pest you are.

>>96947583
>>96947593
>>96947628
Wrong, I'm not french, or a fag, and I don't even like modernist arquitecture.
I just find disgusting your moronic 'opinions' that do not belong in the hhg general, tourist
>we
Lmao, you live with your parents and your room is a mess, samefag.
Go back

>>96947667
>Defends modernist architecture and calls everyone who disagrees with him a retard
>”Heh i don’t even like modern architecture i just decided to threadshit for attention”

>>96947667
small world really

>>96947667
Stupid faggot

I like the checkered pauldron look.

>>96947803
I'd sooner have Naufragia be plasma and disintegration than be chemical phosphex. Death Guard renaissance fucking when

>>96947803
I'm ngl I thought this was just going to be a painted model when I saw the thumbnail

>>96947707
I didn't defend anything, pay attention when you read, retard.
I attacked your moronic shitposts about modernist arquitecture being a left wing jewish thing, when its creator was actually the complete opposite. And you fell into the trap because you're an uneducated moron ,so you didn't recognize his name.
>>96947752
CleanyourroomTimmy. You don't belong here. Go back to fling shit with your subhuman buttbuddies in pol, parasite.

>>96947844
DG are chemical warfare in general, not only phosphex you fucking retard.

>>96946293
>>96946295
>they didn't
>they also did

make up your minds, tards

>>96947862
Ah yes, phosphex isn't a chemical, that's why Mortarion isn't the only Primarch to carry phosphex bombs. My bad, retard-kun.

What i hate the most about the new cataphractii is the 2 kits bullshit, it should be easier and cheaper to make a terminator melee upgrade set (even with the volkite chargers) considering we are getting Tartaros down the line, and it is not like they care about different weapons aesthetics between marks.

>>96948032
This would be the case if the weapon upgrades made the original kits ANY cheaper

>>96948022
>Not only phosphex
Does not mean
>No phosphex
dear illiterate ESL sama

>>96948068
By virtue of its AP, Phosphex is the one chemical that matters. As such, it is the best chemical.
Scrutinize my words all you like, the Dark Angel's big termies must not have improved access to it, for that is the sole purview of the Death Guard.

>>96947850
Dumb faggot

>>96948309
It isn't. Even the Ultramarines had a destroyer company that phosphex'ed an entire world, making it uninhabitable. Meaning there is more precedent in the lore for UM having improved access to phosphex than DG.

>>96947446
the one with the sword does look a bit efeminite I didn't notice it before you pointed it out.

>>96947449
So there is no inherit bonus synergy for running them as Deathguard. That is kind of a sad. I guess I just build 6 with fist and plasma.

>>96948309
The whole point of the Dreadwing is to utterly destroy with the most horrific weapons available and they use phosphex as a matter of course.

>>96944960
Un
> *Clap*
Painted
> *Clap*
Trash

>>96944960
Can titans even react vs non superheavies?

>>96948664
don't ask a games player about the rules of the game. ironically only the nogames know the rules.

>>96948664
Knights aren't superheavies anymore

>>96948785
Oh, well you shouldnt call a knight "the titan" then, thats just confusing.

>>96948774
What is better, to know the rules but never use them or to rely on the rules that you dont know?

>>96940532
I was hoping for plastic but like this

>>96948664
Knights can (I checked)

>>96948774
Faggot

>>96948895
Well excuuuuuse me Mr. Augmentic Chicken Legs

Any oldfags around how many doors came with FW ZM tiles?

>>96948664
Titans can, but only if you're attacking them with S10+ or are a Titan, Knight or Super-heavy.

>>96949055
I want to say 4 large 8 small

>>96946617
>Le Corbusier
A retard who created a bunch of garbage, and is increasingly viewed with disdain, revulsion, and disgust by everyone involved with modern urbanism who isn't an irony-poisoned poofter? Everyone who hates modernist and postmodernist claptrap knows who Le Crapbussyboi is you pretentious twonk, we simply don't respect him or his shitty output.

>>96947667
you know me too well; not samefagging tho; i only called you out on the french bit
i don't care about le corbillard that much; there's a special place in hell for most french politicians

>>96949254
i wish 4chan still showed the amount of different IP in a thread
get lost in the woods

is the arquitor, witnout phosphex as I dont have a siege breaker, worth it for the points?

>>96947539
You know the whole "good architecture is a tradcon trick!" bullshit is something you modernist retards made up, right? Because you had no other response to the endless emerging evidence that people or all political persuasions consider your creations disgusting and soulless, and prefer to live in human-scale cities with classically beautiful buildings, so like all ideologically motivated idiots you assumed everyone else is as deranged as you and tried to smear traditional architecture by association, your tiny little peabrain being incapable of grasping that "I want to look at nice things that make me feel good, not horrible grey blocks or ridiculous glass buttplugs" is a nearly universal point of view.

The plinth would be too good for you. I'd sever your head and create a life support system to keep you conscious, then make a "playful and ironic" modern art piece where your face is seamlessly blended into the bottom of a urinal with an endless stream of horse piss pouring into your mouth. I'd call it "Le Corbusier".

>>96949267
No you don't, then you'd have to confront the reality that everyone thinks you're a fuckwit. Without the delusion that every anon who shits on you is one person your sad little reality would implode.

>>96948354
>>96949254
>>96949294
>>96949303
>still seething hours later
>still making up shit that never happened and unable to read
nobody cares, retard. Take your schizo seething elsewhere

>>96949269
No

>>96949346
Retarded faggot

>>96949359
>cannot stop thinking about faggot
you're russian, are you

>>96949257
How does one fuck up a decal that badly?

>>96949379
it looks better now i swear

>>96949366
Coping faggot

>>96949356
what should I take instead

>>96948358
>Ultramarines had a destroyer company
Nemesis Destroyers' mortis bolts are actually an offshoot of Toxiferran, which is a Dusk Raider development.
>>96948479
Yeah... They made Death Guard have chemical weapons, then made Dark Angels the "better than yours" legion. Bit surprised they don't have a Ravenwing biker unit to shit on White Scars like they do in 40k lol

>>96940424

I don't like them. Hopefully someone will.

>>96949428
A siege breaker

>>96949269
They were, back in 2.0 when their S10 guns could cause instant death. That's gone, so I don't think so

>>96949494
Anon they literally have D2 standing still

>>96949483
Psh what for? ...except Phosphex Rapiers. Those are quite scary.
Idk what to do with the Siege Breaker himself, though. What does Art of Destruction even do this time?

>>96949499
Sorry for moving the goalpost, S10 was also good against vehicles. D2 isn't. With S10 it's going to penetrate, which can't cause a Status on vehicles.
I suppose it's meant to be good only against infantry, that's acceptable. It'd be nice to move and keep D2 idk u.u

Still no scan of Forges of Saturn?

>>96949542
no one has bothered uploading any of the 3.0 swill onto my book tracker
nor do i blame them
nor will i try and change it
just sticking with 2.0 lmao
for which all tomes thereconcerning are furnished with basically perfect file quality

>>96949269
it's terrible. It does no damage to anything, is made of glass, short ranged and dishes out statuses less efficiently than other guns. Iron Warriors has a detachment 2 support slots and 2 free slots for arquitor-bombards-only, but IW players have zero reason to take it arquitor is so garbage so it ends up just identical to the default 2 support slot detachment.

>>96949817
maybe i should just take some allied SA meduas then

>>96945239
tell them to play 40k if they like it so much

>>96949269
AP roll is usually going to inflict statuses on AV14 rather than damage which can be useful with Barrage if you get lucky - it's 1/3 to get a direct hit where you placed the template and it's large enough that centering it over a big AV14 will tend to hit the tank even if you scatter the average 7" - same with the Spicula, but with much better range

Morbus (stationary, direct)*
kill TEQ 4++ 1/18 (Breaching**) 1/14 (non-Breaching)
kill MEQ 1/9 (Breaching**) 1/7 (non-Breaching)

Morbus (stationary, indirect)
kill TEQ 4++ 1/18 (Breaching**) 1/14 (non-Breaching)
kill MEQ 1/9 (Breaching**) 1/7 (non-Breaching)

*indirect includes Hit Tests, but even if you fail those the scatter can still land on target - without Hit Tests these values are 1/12 or 1/9 and 1/6 or 1/5, more or less

**because Breaching 6+ is harder to reach but the Wound roll is always 2+ vs these targets, it's more likely to succeed without Breaching than with Breaching - but since they're mutually exclusive outcomes of the same rolls you can't rationalize them into fucking stats like some casino-fodder retard

these values are broadly the same for the Spicula tho of course it's only killing MEQ outright and not TEQ - because it's D1 - but you're paying for range+Suppressive there, so you can take on HSS and other infantry at range without exposing yourself to Reaction fire, potentially ruining their shooting - the Morbus is for close assault, Pinning infantry to keep them from maneuvering around you as you advance

the graviton cannon is much the same as the Morbus for intended role and ability, but much better at killing MEQ (5/6 when touched by the template, better than 1/2 overall with Hit Test) and Pinning infantry; also fucks Vehicles with Shock (Pinned) 1/3, but much shorter range than even the Morbus: however 1/18 you're going to Pin and Pen AV14 with it

for 150/165 there are few things that can hide out and do the same jobs as effectively, but they're fragile under direct attack

>>96949516
Best to just compare Siegebreaker to a Terminator-centurion. For 115 instead of 100 points, you get a thunderhammer instead of a poweraxe (if terminator wants hammer he's 110 now), just 5 extra points to get 3" phosphex grenades to melt marines/terminators with panic3 even while running to charge a different nearby unit (Easy worth), gives your army phosphex rapiers to panic3 more units while melting terminators, if he's too far to panic a squad off the board he can instead simply let any Barrage unit use his vision instead of barraging (perfect shots for the rapiers safely inside terrain so nothing can charge/shoot them)

Siegebreaker has 9 Cool which is better than regular commands, so they fail suppress(1) type stuff 17% instead of 28% of the time.

Being t4 instead of t5 is mostly irrelevant, just use the t5 of the terminator squad that outnumbers him. The t4 only matters in duels where everyone swinging thunderhammers wounds on 2+ vs t5 anyway.

You don't get a 2nd detachment from the centurion, in exchange you get -3 routing phosphex and the super artillery spotting. As putting a status on the enemy prevents them scoring and makes them initiative 1, siegebreaker is stronger.

He's not mandatory as the phosphex rapiers still cost a good chunk, but he's definitely not flawed (unlike almost all artillery tanks)

>>96950086
direct hit doesnt exist anymore

>>96950099
Yes it does, its called "hitting on the to hit roll".

>>96950114
then it'd be 2/3 to hit, not 1/3

>>96950114
read barrage, dumbass. "No hit test is made"

>>96948651
Post models, post games. This is the first challenge in this reply thread. Failure to comply constitutes immediate basement dweller confirmation.

>>96948651
Are your balls okay buddy?

>>96950086
if we pretend it hits a tank 80% of the time, it's still entirely harmless to them for the cost.
even with 80% hitrate on AV14, 1-4 does nothing, needs 6 to scratch it, 5 only does a random status (and the reaction status is basically harmless to vehicles and the immobilizing one is usuallly harmless)
Average damage of the 1 shot shitty barrage becomes 0.27 hull points. Chance of suppressing the enemy from hitting, glancing and suppressing - 4.56%.

The arquitor is so pathetic that if you had TWELVE of them firing at a kratos at the same time from turn 1 and pretend it's 80% hitrate, it becomes 3.56 avg damage total (of his 10) and you suppress his shooting to snapshots only 42.7% of the time. Less than half the time. That's TWELVE arquitors for 1800 points, unable to be a significant threat to a 350-ish tank, despite having increased glancing odds from all 12 trying to spam status on it.

So yeah, you're a fucking moron. A whole squad of arquitors doesn't take a tank down before the 4-turn game even ends.

>>96949269
>>96950086

I am personally a big fan of the Graviton Arquitor because it has that Pinning (3), and locking a squad of termies in place for a round is nearly as good as killing them. You have AV13, so using the Arquitor as a kind of assault gun isn't that bad an idea. Also amazing if you have anything to make statuses better, like Fear, an Effrit squad or a sniper or two to pop voxes.

>>96949494
>Claiming the arquitor was good
>in 2.0
Lol. Lmao, even.

>>96950126
Maybe you should start by reading the barrage rule yourself, illiterate ESL kun.

>>96950235
except they just ride a transport onto the objective and the grav arquitor accomplishes nothing whatsoever. Grav arquitor are a total joke, one shock test vs vehicle, when every trooper grav gun gets the exact same shock odds (5+ each)

Comparing to actual good grav units, such as Iron Hands specials each getting 10 point grav guns or 15 point grav shredders (2 shots each pinning on 5+) - for 160 points he can have 7 graviton shredder marines with 14 shots pinning landraiders on 5+, instead of the arquitor piece of trash's one single bad shot pinning on 5+. 14X better is not close at all.

>>96950302
"NO HIT ROLL TEST IS MADE" retard weeb faggot. Of course you being a mentally retarded person was obvious as you think the Arquitor is powerful when it's among the worst units in game.

>>96947259
I do must wonder if they did it like this for compatibility with regular marine upgrades. The power fist is still looking overly slim, though.

>>96947252
That lava looks like a pizza.

>>96950320
Oh dear lord... he is genuinely illiterate. I feel sorry for you anon, life has to be very hard when you can't read properly.

>>96950235
It also is a 5" blast with str 9, ap 3 and 2 damage flat. It's gonna kill most infantry before it even gets to pin them lmao.

>>96940347 (OP)
Is the intro box painted as one army any good or fun?

>>96950369
The pinning(3) is there so you can bully primarchs.

>>96950374
The faturnine praetor and termies have to deep strike
No transports so tacs and vets have to footslog
It's almost 2000 pts but it's a bad 2000 pts

Does anyone have Wilphs old stuff? Looking for the OG Satunines, BA terminator, abbaddon. and his mk2. Have pretty much everything else.

>>96950484
>Pinning a primarch in place with a graviton arquitor and a squad of effrit with telepathy libby in the vicinity

>>96946409
damn that owns, great colors- what's your blueish black recipe?

>>96950374
Saturnine isn't really a full army, though you can squeeze 1500-2000pt games out of it.

>40x Tactical Marines is a good core for collecting a legion and can be repurposed into other infantry
>Centurions are useful for unlocking two detachments in your FOC, or you could kitbash him into another character, but holy shit fuck assembling that cape
>Disintegrator weapon upgrades might be useful but the weapons aren't exactly stellar
>Saturnine Termies are in a weird spot with being a weapons platform without that much range and otherwise typically going last in melee, they now have rules for a command squad version but you'll have to rely on deep striking with...
>Fatboy Slim, who now at least has proper retinue options as mentioned above, but he's really pricy points-wise and Deep Strike + 4" move doesn't really help making an impact
>The Araknae competes against a MSU HSS w/ Autocannons but has a protective bubble
>Saturnine Dreadnoughts are very expensive for a weapons platform and their best options are the ones that don't come in the box

Otherwise, the Combat Force boxes exist. You get 20x Tacticals, a Leviathan Dreadnought with only ranged upgrades, a Rhino, and HSS upgrades for Heavy Bolters and Missile Launchers. The latter is probably the least appealing part, but everything else is nice. And Dreadnought kits for some reason are very easy to magnetize, more so than anything like infantry or vehicles.

Three months ago I dropped a paperclip on the floor. I was just looking around for my brass tubing because I need to pin something but I left it at home. Luckily that paperclip wss still there.

>>96949379
same way he doesn't drill his barrels

>>96950590
>>96950504
Thanks gents!

>>96950559

I've taken to doing that with an allied Karacnos instead, since it has extra statuses in the sponsons and it's fun to watch a single escort terminator blow a 2+ and leave Guilliman slogging around at T5 for the rest of the game. I don't have the Telepathy though, maybe I should get myself a psyker.

Watching Primarchs eat shit and crawl in the mud for two rounds of a four round game has made me significantly more bullish on ROT Morlocks as an Alphy escort, for those few of us that run Alphy. The vox is a life-saver and they can go in a Land Raider, which saves a lot of cash.

>>96950308

You live in a very strange world where every target of note is in a vehicle 100% of the time. Normally I find there's at least something good for an AP3 D2 Pinning 3 blast to shoot at, and it's not particularly expensive as those things go.

>>96950738
nobody cares what you think, retard

>>96950797
This post has Night Lords player energy

What's the answer to rhino rushes if you don't have any infiltrate options?

Working on my Mister of Dissent. The rest of its bits are at home so now I need to decide if I'm gonna cut a moritat's head off so I can make it look different from my other one

>>96950590
3 Saturnine do fit in a landraider

>>96950850
Antitank? But things that can defeat AV12. If it is a rush as you say, you may not have the luxury to hit from the side everytime?

Also finished the siege squad's assembly

>>96950865
He looks... cheerful.

>>96950886
He's having a good time, he's riding his favorite jump pack, he's listening to Black Sabbath

>>96950850
simply win first turn, you dolt. If you don't lose the initial roll off just make sure you succeed the seize.

>>96950850
Interdiction Cadres?

Or just have something that can kill power armor turn 1. Some mobility of your own wouldnt hurt.

If your opponent rushes onto objectives (which you dont even really need rhinoes for, a rush of 11" can get you midfield from an aggressive deployment) then hes also going to be exposed and in range of all your shit turn 1. So just punish them.

Get those vanguard points, if they move to avoid giving you vanguard theyre down reactions for return fire or overwatch or whatever else, so take advantage of that instead.

>>96950866
You can fit six of them into a Spartan as well, and you have the same footprint as Tartaros when disembarking due to the fuckhuge 50mm bases, although you still can't have a maxed squad and leader.

>>96950098
All of that is true, though i'd rather compare terminator centurions to terminator siege breakers; 110 pts vs 130, so that's 10 pts for a cognis-signum (LoS for Barrage) and 10 for the augury scanner (ignores Shouded). And no phosphex bombs.
I was rather thinking about Augury Scanners. Siege Breakers are the only HQ with an Augury Scanner. What is that for?:
>Squads with good shooting already have Augury Scanners (Legion Equipment List)
>Squads with an HQ wielding a hammer NECESSARILY want to be in melee, not shooting
Squads that meet both criteria of having good shooting but no augury scaner are:
>From Combi-weapons
All Command squads and Terminator squads
>From multiple Heavy weapons
Terminator Siege squad

>>96950865
similar energy

>>96950944
That's a big part of the issue.
>>96951036
Asking from the opposite perspective. Buddy has been playing mech. Much better in the damage department. But if the tacticals get focused the termies can stall comptroller units from getting to objectives. If the termies get focused the tacticals run away on scoring.

>>96951060
It's hard to want to go full deathstar this edition.

>>96950850
Just kill the things inside.

>>96951294
>But if the tacticals get focused the termies can stall comptroller units from getting to objectives. If the termies get focused the tacticals run away on scoring.
Well thats just the game isnt it? How do you deal with the opponent scoring while also dealing with the units the opponent has to deal with your scoring.

Your buddy sounds like he wants some pinning though, would keep tacticals from scoring and stop terminators getting to his robots.

>>96951305
Its basically always been hard. Deathstars are not generally very good - unless your opponent plays into them.

Theyre a strategy that "abuses the social contract", you exploit the general friendly "I want both players to do cool shit and have fun" mentality to force them to make the easily avoidable mistake of engaging with the deathstar.

>>96951260
>Timmy!

how do you guys even have fun with this game? Every time my buddies convince me to play its always extremely unpleasant

>>96951305
That is true. Spartans might be cool but I was personally thinking of just using a pair of Land Raiders with MSU termie groups. In a game with just four turns, I don't think anyone has to worry about some guy spending half his budget on a Primarch with a transport and maxed-out unique terminator retinue.

It's over, Macca officially said 3.0 is done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqMUehfee8c

>>96951602
Cool

>>96950617
Is this an activation code?

>>96940347 (OP)
I see what you did, based

>>96950617
>>96951761
you guys are cool don't go to calth tomorrow.

Do you run veteran hws or do you just accept your guys getting punted when your opponent finds a shot on them?

>>96951807
I run them with disintegrators. They are an AL clandestine OP cell, so no one can know anyone was ever there one way or another.

>>96945454
I use mine as Medusas.

>>96951602
uhhh fvcking zased????

>>96952185
>>96952185
>>96952185
look very very closely