Did his fall to the dark side make any sense or was he just a massive retard?

no but he had to become evil so the other movies could happen

>>211610342 (OP)
according to the movies, not reading any book, watching any deleted scene or the animations that followed yea he was a utter retard and it makes 0 sense

Paid 13 us dollars to sit through this piece of crap 3 months ago it didn't age well.

His redemption made even less sense.

No, from the beginning his entire story is just "This guy has to become Darth Vader" and that's why everything that happens to him happens.

>>211610777
made sense form libertarian free will pov, it presented it coherently but I think it was an accident not planned, the Disney ones understood that thread better and applied it again

>>211610782
k retardo

>>211611020
Despite all the bad parts it was made

>>211610620
best argument for it is a moral suicide, a rarely covered move, plausible? Well it doesn't fucking have to be but it happens all the time nonetheless

>>211610893
hwat

>>211611056
my spic friend, what?

>>211610777
James Earl Jones didn’t believe Vader in the death scene.

>>211611102
made sense from a free will is real and if reality happens the same twice, you as an agent, could surely choose differently, regardless of the path, which reality has taken thus far, if you pay careful attention to the Star Wars plot as it progresses, as the main story of Darth Vader it becomes very apparent as that being the central theme/realization

>>211611263
Then the Disney movies despite your emotional quick take on them develop the exact same plot, very clearly at least with Kylo Ren. The woman is already a perfect princess early on and maintains that status.

Anyway given that I believe this is how reality operates you can understand why I appreciate these movies, despite not being fantastic by any stretch of the imagination.

>>211610342 (OP)
It would have made way more sense if they portrayed Padme as a Lady Macbeth figure urging him to consolidate political power.

>>211610342 (OP)
It made no sense. His whole motivation is to use the dark side powers to resurrect Padme, but then when she dies he never asks Palpatine about it.

The amount of ESL in this thread in staggering

>>211611392
Maybe you're low IQ and got used to lower IQ people conferring you a low cognitive load environment?
Debate your way outside of this conundrum.

>>211610342 (OP)
>don’t get a promotion at work
>go batshit and kill everyone

>>211611263
Alright. Sure, that's all good. I'm just saying I don't buy his "choosing differently" in regards to his chucking Palpy into the warp core, that's all. Seemed like it came out of nowhere.

>>211610342 (OP)
you have to watch the Mortis arc in the clone wars cartoon for more context

>>211610342 (OP)
Naruto does the Anakin and Palpatine plot line better and I’m not joking.

>>211611480
I mean could it be murder after we saw on screen the Empire purging an entire planet, just because?

>>211611476
>I hated school too, it never once occurred to me... KILL EVERYBODY AT SCHOOL?!

>>211611589
Are these the same nigga? I can never tell with these soap opera animes

>>211611760
There part of the same clan which is why they look so similar.

>>211611827
are they related?

>>211611589
How did he turn Obito into a schizo again?

>>211611708
This is the fundamental problem with hating school versus focusing your hate on everyone at school, school is just a building.

>>211611480
It was pottery to ani saying he could overthrow sheev.

>>211611589
Adam Driver as Madara

>>211612151
I'm sorry for doubting you, George

>>211611904
No. Everyone in their clan has the same features.
>>211611975
He manipulated the hidden mist so that Obito would see Kakashi killing his oneitis.
>>211612158
He kind of sounds like Madara’s dub voice.

>>211612234
Why does everybody in their clan have the same features?

>>211612483
Because they’re a clan so they’re all related. They’re all basically the same race.

>>211612234
I still don't buy that one of their clan members was able to wipe them all out except for his little brother with no resistance

I don't like this casting choice either. He's too boyish. Does not exude evil in the slightest.

>>211612581
What race is Naruto?

>>211610342 (OP)
He was just an incel.

>>211611589
Unironically Obito is a much better character than Anakin, and anything bad he did Anakin did 100x worse.
>obito pointed a knife at a baby but never actually killed a single child
>anakin killed a bunch of 8 year olds who looked up to him
>anakin blew up his daughter's entire planet, killing millions including her adoptive parents
>obito only killed his clansmen out of sheer opportunism because the deep state was planning on killing them anyway, and he could cuck them by stealing their magic eye powers if he killed them first
>anakin went to the dark side because he had a "dream" his wife would die, and sheev promised him he could save her with 0 evidence whatsoever that this was actually possible (and, in fact it was not and she died anyway)
>obito went to the dark side only after his friend actually died, and only because it was fully possible to revive her using one of multiple methods, or even create a matrix-tier realistic illusion world where she was alive (and as stupid as this sounds, there was plenty of evidence all of these things were actually achievable in-universe)
>anakin continued to serve palpatine faithfully, killing gorillions even after his wife was long dead and he had no further reason to listen to this retard
>obito never actually trusted madara and planned to betray him the entire time
The only difference between the two characters is Anakin did it for his actual wife and is therefore more beloved and sympathetic. If Obito had been married he would be the better-written character.

>>211612674
Aryan

>>211613494
>Aryan
>midget
checks out

The Jedi order and the democracy of the republic effectively facilitated him losing everything he cared about

Even if you blame it on Palpatine, Palpatine was uplifted by the democracy of the republic and the Jedi order failing to stop him

>>211611589
It's amazing how similar they are.

>>211612674
Spiral

>>211611589
based
also madara was right

>>211610342 (OP)
I'm a massive retard and I would have done mostly the same thing. Maybe without kneeling to the monster mash and sucking his dick though

>>211610342 (OP)
George is a retard and he fucked up the central premise of his entire trilogy.

>>211610342 (OP)
It makes perfect sense, but you consume media through intermediary e-celebs, so it's easy to see where you missed the build-up.

>>211613042
Good write up but Obito definitely got children killed when he released the 9 tails.

>Join me and I'll show you how to save your wife from certain death
>okay, I join you. Now let's save my wife
>lol jk, I don't actually know how to do that. No backsies though
>aw shucks
Yes he was retarded.

>>211611589
You're absolutely insane if your'e not joking. But if you are joking congrats on yanking my chain.

>>211610342 (OP)
no, since these are children's films and the bad guys have nothing going for them. if they did then the audience might get confused about who is good and who is bad.

>>211610342 (OP)
It did make sense, however, retards that need everything spelled out for them didn't get it.

>Ep1, we see how Anakin is a young boy, too old for the indoctrination of the Jedi to work. Troubled by fear and leaving the only person that he truly loves, he is a troubled child. Qui-gon is the only one with the moral nuance to take him in. "Duel of the Fates" happens and he dies, leaving his apprentice to take Anakin under his wing. Someone thats only a few years older than him, which is more of a brother figure now has to be a father to this troubled kid when he doesn't even have complete experience in life or the force.
>Ep2, troubled by visions of his mother dying he goes to the Jedi. They don't hear him, they just tell him he must let go of those attachments since it'll lead to the Dark Side. He succumbs to his premonitions and goes to see his mother. Turns out he was right, and she died after being horribly tortured. Kills everyone in rage (giving in to the dark side). The only person he can confide in, that he loves besides his mother doesn't judge him for what he did. At the end, marries her and cements her ties to her.
>Ep3, is troubled yet again by visions but now of Padme dying. Jedi again refuse to help, his only chance is becoming a Master and gaining the knowledge locked away. He finally realizes when he gets put on the council and not made Master that the Jedi have never seen him as one of their own. He will always be an outcast. Palpatine seduces him with promises, giving him a way to save the only thing he holds dear. He goes all in because at this point the Jedi don't trust him, don't respect him, and don't care for his problems.
If anything, it was the Jedi who were absolute retards for taking him in or letting someone young like Obi-Wan train him. Anakin acted out of a young boy's fear of losing a loved one, and killed the people who never cared for him in the first place. Palpatine gave him the better deal, from his point of view.

>>211610342 (OP)
I'm always baffled by people who don't see how Anakin was always teetering on the edge. As a child he was sold as a slave, grew up in the slums surrounded by criminals, competed in deathraces that he only survived because of his superhuman reflexes, and was eventually recruited into an interplanetary war where his surrogate father figure was killed, developed oneitis for the most unavailable woman in the galaxy, and was initially rejected by the jedi order after leaving his mother behind and flying across the galaxy to join them (which is probably something he never forgot).

So he turned out to be a somewhat more troubled apprentice than usual but it probably still would have turned out okay if so many other factors hadn't converged at once. HIs mother dies and he gives in to his emo rage and not only slaughters an entire encampment of Sandpeole but gets away with it because no one gives a fuck about sandpeople lol. So now he's a grizzled child soldier with fresh trauma who succumbed to his violent impulses and everyone's kind of like "it's cool we understand." Which just gets reinforced when he kills Dooku and is praised for it. And Padme is acting all slutty and letting him rawdog her so he's not in control of his rage *or* lust at this point. Then sheev starts pissing in his ear about how the jedi don't know everything at the same time the jedi start jerking him around and undermining his faith in them.

He was already incredibly conflicted and the Sheev dangled the save people from dying carrot" which was the one thing that ultimately swayed his choice because of his premonitions about Padme which Sheev either knew about or may have actually been responsible for. I'm also not 100% sure Sheev didn't contrive to have his Anakin's mother abducted. He was playing the long game after, all.

But anyway, if you're gonna tell me Anakin's heel turn came out of nowhere you werent paying attention.

>>211610342 (OP)
The Dark Side is addictive and makes you irrational. The fact that Palpatine was so high functioning just shows how much of a threat he was.

>>211611341
The woman was saved by the bad guy twice.

>>211614916
>>211614969
I've seen the argument a thousand times at this point. "Anakin's turn came out of nowhere, there was no development, he goes from 0 to kid murder in seconds, etc. I think that the development is there, no question about it. The writting is on the wall when it comes to Anakin's downfall since Episode 1. I think people just tend to get hung up on the pace of Anakin's downfall and end up mistaking it for lack of development. There was definitely work that should have been done on that scene between Anakin, Mace, and Palpatine. We shouldn't have had that scene where Anakin goes to kill younglins since that's also one valid criticism given the context. Three things needed to change for me. A more engaging exchange with Mace and Palpatine, Palpatine should have reassured Anakin better, and not have a scene of him killing kids.

>>211612674
Norwegian

>>211614916
>he goes to the Jedi. They don't hear him, they just tell him he must let go of those attachments since it'll lead to the Dark Side.
This never happened.

>>211614969
He could have just been a massive dick Bad Lieutenant tyle jedi, but no, he has to slaughter children based on a vague promise.

>>211612674
Furry

>>211611476
understandable really

Natty in Tel Aviv or Hollywood I'm not sure which.

>>211610777
Yeah, simply killing the Emperor doesn't mean much. As a Sith his goal was to kill him anyways, plus the Emperor had just tried to get Luke to kill him. And even in a vacuum, saving your son is still a fairly selfish motive. It's not even out of line with what brought him to the dark side in the first place.

>>211614969
I've seen good explanations for why Anakin turned, the problem is none of that is not really expanded on much in the movies (the one exception I can think of is "from my point of view the Jedi are evil", but that has its own problems). The reason that we *are* explicitly given, that Anakin's fear of Padme dying leads him to the dark side, just isn't developed very well. It seems Lucas just wanted Vader's fall to the dark side to mirror his redemption and neglected everything else, including whether it was even a good idea to make love lead to the dark side at all.

>>211610342 (OP)
The Clone Wars helped it not seem as sudden somewhat, but still not nearly enough.

>>211610342 (OP)
"Falling" to the dark side has never made any sense whatsoever. What does it even mean?
Not even when they try to make it make sense like in Kotor 2

>>211616658
The majority of that is just him wallowing in uncertainty and fear for years though, how do you even "show" that?

>>211616958
I guess it means "using the force like a blunt instrument"
It's easy and gets immediate results but is ultimately bad for you and everyone else

>>211610342 (OP)
His fall to the Dark Side didn't hold the emotional weight that it should have because they made Anakin so unlikable in Attack of the Clones.

>>211617171
Anakin was an unlikable piece of shit so it was a case of good riddance when he fell to the dark side
Bastila had much more impact

>>211617360
mommy

>>211617374
Basti just jumps on the biggest lightsaber within reach, she doesn't care what color. If he's smart Revan will keep her on a short leash.

>>211617115
Exactly, you cant easily show inner turmoil. There should be more hints in dialog at his hidden resentment of the Jedi. I also think you can show it better through characterisation. Anakin spends half the trilogy smiling, goofing around, pulling off stunts. If it's meant to come off like he's rebellious and aggressive it doesn't even give a hint, he really just seems like a daredevil or a troll.

>>211617696
I think a characterisation like Breaker Morant would have been more suitable for Anakin. But he was too young for that too really work. In fact he was too young overall.

>>211612637
They weren't all walking nooks, some of them were just dudes.

>>211610342 (OP)
Anakin needed to be pushed to join Palp via 2 methods: perceived betrayal by the Jedi Council (political or morally) and perceived reason for the death of his lover by the hands of the Jedi. The story would've been better if Palp had schemed for both events to unfold behind the scenes.
>TPM
Should've been the setup with Anakin around the same age as Luke where he's discovered by the Jedi while also secretly developing a romance with Padme.
>AOTC
Should've been focused on the developing war and have the twin Skywalkers born in secrecy and raised in secret by Padme...
>ROTS
Concludes the years long war with Padme's death (and assumed death of his children) along with the culminating fight between Anakin & Obi based on the belief that the Jedi had betrayed him. If Anakin truly felt that the Jedi were responsible for the death of his wife and children and if the second & third movies had shown the Jedi acting with more political impunity due to the war... making him question the morals of the Jedi code... it would've made more sense for it to come to a head, especially if Palpatine had some dirt on the Jedi that he could've shown to reaffirm Anakin's hatred toward the Jedi after the death of his wife and assumed death of his children. His kids should've been a few years old to align with the description by Leia in the OT since obviously she had vague memories.

I never liked Anakin receiving the news of Padme's death after he's suited up. Vader's suit was symbolic of his stripped humanity. He shouldn't show any grief after he's in the suit. I also felt that it should've been Vader taking care of the remaining Jedi and younglings to drive home his lost humanity. Anakin was still human with possible redemption left. He burns alive in hell and is reborn a demon by the devil himself. Lucas had a great overarching concept that needed refinement.

>>211618416
The Jedi Council also needed more character development outside of Obi & Yoda... frankly nobody gives much of a rat's ass about these underdeveloped jedi all getting slaughtered everywhere outside of oh no!... oh well. There's no personal connection that feels natural... just seeing Kenobi lament a fallen friend somewhere knowing that his own Padawan killed them would've amplified the emotion. The only time we ever get a glimpse of this is from Quigon's death in TPM.

>>211618416
Agreed especially about Anakin being older in TPM

It does but ironically only if you disregard what George actually intended.

>>211610342 (OP)
He was desperate to save Padme and was an accessory to the murder of a Jedi Master. He had nowhere else to go.

>>211610342 (OP)
It absolutely did if you were fucking paying attention. Did it make sense? Absolutely. Was it justified? Not even Vader would say it was if he was being honest.

>>211614969
>the most unavailable woman in the galaxy
There was nothing unavailable about her.

>>211618416
>>211618487
Anakin was originally supposed to be around 13 in the first draft of TPM and it would have solved so many problems with that movie. It would have made the romance with Padme less weird and you would have been able to cast a better actor instead of Jake Lloyd. Instead, Lucas thought that he could better target the young child demographic by making Anakin 9.

>>211616958
Have you somehow lived in complete isolation of millennia of cultural canon for something like "fall from grace" to not make sense to you? I'm genuinely asking.

>>211619227
it's completely daft. Boys were entranced by a teenaged Luke in the OT. Lucas really needed some of his childish tendencies reigned in. Ewoks were a mistake and the beginning of the end.

>>211616658
The other problem is anakin's characterization in the prequels is too unlikeable to really sell the idea that this guy "falls" to evil. From the start of AOTC he's portrayed as a whiny petulant bitch who backtalks both obi-wan and padme and by the half way mark he's already slaughtering children and at no point does he perform a truly heroic or selfless act to remind the audience that he's still good deep down. Anakin doesn't so much "fall" to the dark side as "take one step down to the bottom of the stairs"

>>211614674
He already killed Mace Windu, the Master if the Jedi Order. There was no turning back.

>>211611069
Adding to this, I think the idea is that because his moral development was entirely based around following a strict Jedi code that he never really agreed with, once that was gone his actions became unspeakable to most of us.

>>211610782
its fucking lampshaded in the third, sixth whatever the fuck movie
>the "force" literally trolling the cunt into becoming the cunt

>>211619393
>anakin's characterization in the prequels is too unlikeable to really sell the idea that this guy "falls" to evil
He's likeable enough, bro. You're nerd raging.

>>211619854
General audiences disagreed.

>>211610342 (OP)
His fall made sense BECAUSE he was a massive retard. That's kinda how it has to work. There really is no other alternative.

>>211619882
Nerds on the internet aren't general audiences, my guy.

>>211619343
Fall from grace means "fall from God's grace"
But what is the Force equivalent? The Force rejects you? You can only use it in anger? What is the experience of "falling to the dark side"? It's all so vague

>>211619227
>Lucas thought that he could better target the young child demographic by making Anakin 9.
Wow
He really is stupid
Boys don't want to be another stupid kid, they want to be an adult

>>211619882
The general audience loved the prequels until Mike Stoklasa gaslit them into thinking otherwise

https://youtu.be/H-KMxipqCcA

>>211619646
>He already killed Mace Windu, the Master if the Jedi Order.
An act that was only witnessed by Sheev. He could have beheaded the old man right there and become the hero who prevented a Sith Lord from taking over Republic and destroying the Jedi Order although Windu and Fisto and the other no-names were lost in the battle.
Or if he didn't want to live a lie he could confess his crime and accept potential execution or imprisonment for his actions. Either option would have been better than what he actually did.

>>211620189
Lucas had a captured audience you dingus. The dumb little kids ate it all up so to that end, Lucas succeeded. But each film has its problems. TPM was perhaps the most hyped project Hollywood will ever see released. The bitter aftertaste was palpable. Some fans spent months trying to gaslight themselves that they had watched a "good movie" which is hilarious in retrospect. Lucas was something of a nerd demigod back then and a lot of these dweebs were essentially mind broken by TPM. When AOTC came around, people again went hoping Lucas had learned his lesson (less JarJar this time guys!!!) but a bigger issue popped up in the form of adult Anakin's casting. The actor was routinely mocked for the stiff and at times laughable acting along with the dreaded romance scenes. Of course everyone showed up to see the birth of Vader for ROTS and many claim it's the best one. I had a laugh at the critics claiming it was a huge step up in quality compared to Clones when I saw it on opening weekend... because the writing is just as lame as AOTC. The PT is pure schlock with some cool ideas, visuals and legitimately great music. The setting and the music and various set pieces are the main strengths but I can't call any of these movies great or even necessarily good because of the bad writing and questionable acting.

>>211619854
no he sucks. He's much more likeable in other things like TCW but in the movies he's a giant asshole.

>>211620189
99% of the planet don't know who Shlockasa is, they just didn't like the prequels.

>>211620979
>TPM was perhaps the most hyped project Hollywood will ever see released. The bitter aftertaste was palpable.
I remember it. I saw it in theatres. It felt embarrassing, and the audience left in stunned silence after it was over.

>>211620017
I don't understand your objection. Do you not see the religiosity of the Force or something?

>>211611476
>have same job for over 10 years
>ask for raise
>told not deserving of raise
Would you be okay in that situation?

>>211610342 (OP)

It makes a lot of sense. Palpatine put his finger in his bottom.

>>211620017
Falling from grace is you rejecting God, not him rejecting you, theologylet.

>>211610342 (OP)
He was a massive

>>211621829
It's clearly a reference to real-world religious ideas, but what does it mean in the star wars setting? All it appears to be is a switch gets flipped and now you are evil
What has happened to Anakin that he is now a murderous dark knight unquestioningly following his master? Why does he act that way when he didn't before?

>>211620189
>The general audience loved the prequels until Mike Stoklasa gaslit them into thinking otherwise
Stop this meme. The backlash to the Prequels got started WAY before RLM was a thing.
>inb4 W-WELL THE HATERS WERE ALL GEN-X/BOOMERS

>>211620979
>>211621402
The saddest thing about the Prequels is that the one with Jar Jar was the best one. AOTC and ROTS have that wretched Padme/Anakin love story, and the whole Sith Conspiracy is so obvious that the Jedi look like morons for not seeing it coming. That's in addition to all the issues with Anakin's fall that people have brought up in this thread.

RoTJ makes no sense. Back in ESB Vader wanted to sway Luke to overthrow Sidious with him. In RoTJ Luke was about to kill Sidious then Vader stopped him for no reason.

>“Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering

>Anakin's arc from movie 1 to 3 is his fear of losing loved ones. He has deep abandonment issues which started with being taken from his mom. It peaked after his vision of Padme dying from childbirth and he wanted to save her when he couldn't save his mom.
>Sensing his doubts, Palpatine spends years grooming Anakin, feeding into his ego and fears telling him the jedi are holding him back. Even telling him he could save Padme's life by using the dark side
>the Jedi, and his Master Obi-wan, never helped train him to manage his impulsive, prideful and emotionally volatile trails which can lead one to the Dark Side
>the Jedi Counsel also constantly told him he was the "Chosen One" and then denied him a seat on the Counsel and rank of Master despite countless feats he accomplished during the Clone Wars. They also became way too strict with their ideology. Yoda even telling him "just let the bitch go, you're a fucking jedi" after he told him of his visions. And putting him in a difficult spot of spying on Palpatine

Made sense to me.

>>211622134
I think Sheev has some ill-defined hold over Vader, so that Vader must serve and protect him. Vader was able to contemplate overthrowing Sheev, but only while alone with Luke. When Sheev was right there the cuck-power was too strong

>>211610620
>Jedi council was about to wrongly execute your Padawan for murder until you found evidence at the last minute proving her innocent
Probably adds a bit more credence to his train of thought that they're retarded space wizards

>>211610342 (OP)

It all makes sense when you realize that

>Anakin is a massive retard who's incredibly easy to manipulate
>Padme is idealistic/naive to the point of basically being completely delusional
>Obi-Wan is either so blinded by Jedi dogma that he failed to notice that his Padawan was shagging a royal cunt. Or worse, he knew about it and covered for him, which had catastrophic consequences. He was also a terrible teacher
>Yoda always disliked Anakin and didn't even want him to be a Jedi in the first place
>Mace Windu was completely blinded by arrogance and Jedi dogma in a way even more profound than Obi-Wan
>Qui-Gon had a better grasp on how to handle Anakin, but was also a massively insubordinate fuckass who probably should have been ejected from the Jedi Order (in accordance with their own rules) himself and evidently was only protected from expulsion due to his seniority
>Palpatine saw through all of their fatal flaws and played them all like fiddles

Ironically Jar-Jar could arguably be considered the most sensible character because he at least realized when he was way in over his head, the others didn't.

>>211610342 (OP)
It was there to sell toys and did so successfully.

>>211617360
>Bastila had much more impact

Bastila was a spoiled brat who was turned to the dark side with painfully contemptuous ease.

>spends a couple weeks (at most) in Malak's torture chamber
>get convinced to switch allegiances and (possibly not metaphorically) suck his dick, betray everything she knows, and pledge herself to the Sith cause

Anakin on the other hand took years of careful manipulation on the part of Palpatine as well as his own growing despair and disillusionment to switch sides.

>>211614969
>not only slaughters an entire encampment of Sandpeole but gets away with it because no one gives a fuck about sandpeople lol.

The only two people (in the films) who know about what Anakin did to the sandpeople

>Padme, who was fucking him, had known Anakin's mother and how much she meant to him (this probably made her less than sympathetic to the fate of the sandpeople, especially given how brutally they had tortured Shmi)

>Palpatine, who was mindfucking him and used it to further his own goals

The Jedi Council were completely unaware of Anakin's escapades on Tatooine and the consequences of them finding out about it would have been orders of magnitude worse than if Obi-Wan had literally walked in on Anakin cockslamming a heavily pregnant Padme and found his marriage certificate in a drawer.

>>211610342 (OP)
>or was he just a massive retard?
A massive whining retard who turned to the dark side because the Jedi council wanted him to slow down and be careful. "No, fuck you old-timers! I'm going to go murder a room full of children! Take that Obi-wan!"

>>211622152
>Yoda even telling him "just let the bitch go, you're a fucking jedi" after he told him of his visions.

To be fair, Yoda didn't realize who Anakin was talking about in that conversation. He probably would have handled it differently if he had known the person in question was his wife and unborn child rather than a fellow Jedi (for whom the risk of death is a part of daily life)

>>211621393
>they just didn't like the prequels.
yeah that's why the rerun printed millions

>>211619227

Honestly should have casted Hayden Christensen for all three movies.

>>211622872
>>Anakin is a massive retard who's incredibly easy to manipulate
emotionally stunted and slave who was stolen from his mother and home to become a child soldier raised in an insane war/death cult of totalitarian control. goes with the territory.

>>211610342 (OP)
>slaughters a tribe of sand people
>Yoda watches him through the force
>still lets him on the council

>>211611589
no it doesn't you delusional fucking weeb

>>211624055
Sandpeople are the niggers of SW universe, even Yoda hated them

>>211624055
>kill, would I, niggers of the sand
>>211611589
this niggas spittin fire!

>>211619393
I just rewatched the prequel trilogy and it's comical, almost

>>211610342 (OP)
It does when you think about it.
>born into slavery
>lose every parental figure ever
>forced into an order where you're not supposed to care about anyone, but run by people who never had any attachements
>the weight of being the chosen one is placed on you since you were 9
>do most of the work of any Jedi combined during the wars
>no recognition, wont be made master
>tortured by visions of the death of the only person he has left
>nobody is willing to help him. besides this old dude Sheev
>he tells you, there's nothing wrong with him liking Padme and there might be a way to save her
>only person to at least care (even if it was pretend) about you
>rejected from being a master and so not able to get into the jedi archives to get the magic moves to save his wife

>>211611476
>be the most accomplished general of the war
>did more than the rest of that room combined
>nah dude, you're not good enough

>>211623992

Honestly Anakin and Padme were both severely emotionally stunted and the films really should have done a better job at emphasizing this

>Anakin spent the first decade of his life as a slave to a (((Toydarian))) and then had whatever little stability of that life ripped away and was instead thrust into a isolated cult of warrior monks who essentially try to brainwash him with "feeling are bad", except it doesn't work due to his age
>Padme gets made the head-of-state for an entire planet at the age of 14 and while she was probably originally intended to be nothing more than a figurehead, she gets thrust into a situation where she's forced to make life-and-death decisions that affect the lives of millions, if not billions, of people

Whenever some midwit asks "how did Padme fall for Anakin", the answer is that she like him, suffered deeply traumatic experiences that left her severely emotionally stunted before entering her teen years. The end result was both of them bein impulsive, immature, and suffering absolutely horrible lapses in judgement.

One of the major reasons why Luke and Leia turn out so much better than either of their parents is that they both had a far more stable upbringing and were only introduced to potentially traumatizing events at a much older age when they could better handle it.

>>211611392
shut up anglo scum

>>211624563
darth flannel is a retard who was raised rich during the pax americana in California. the worst thing thats happened to him was his wife fucking another dude because he was so coked up his dick stopped working. he has no concept of child soldier, or abuse. despite showing the clone army

>>211621870
except it would be like asking for a promotion after a week of work

>>211624744
it was after 3 years of constantly being engaged in the clone wars. Saving the order and the fuckers in the council's lives multiple times over

>>211613042
>obito pointed a knife at a baby but never actually killed a single child
he slaughtered the Uchiha clan with Itachi which included several kids.

>>211624804
>oh no, that was THE FORCE doing all that, not anakin.

>>211624856
I guess so was this then...

>>211624804
>constantly disobeying orders
that's not the path to a promotion

>>211615789
His conversation with Yoda

>>211610342 (OP)
I would have been happier if they started with anakin being a hotshot adult pilot and he was helping out obiwan and Quigon
The kid is a jedi kid who they stumble upon and is the "kid".

The end of the movie shows him using the force to crush a powerful bot but passing out after

>>211611360
This would work if there was a major war on the verge of happening and he was basically a war hero.

>>211623888
This, even started the two out with a contentious brother relationship at first. The relationship between the kid and padme wouldn't have been as problematic.

>>211624902
he was a general, he can adjust orders and it always worked out in the end

>>211620979
t. borderline braindead genxer who watched the OT as a child and will eternally see it through rose tinted glasses

>>211624931
every jedi was a general

>>211610342 (OP)
Forced as hell

In reality the Jedi Order have long suspected and should have confronted Anakin about his true relationship with Padme

At worst Anakin will simply be expelled from the Order and he won't care since as long as he has Padme his Jedi shit doesn't matter anymore

At best he'll be granted an exception since he's the Chosen One and shit but his children will all become Jedi

>>211624967
but none of them had even half the accomplishments.
The closest was Kenobi

>>211620189
even the simpsons made fun of TPM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lPG1u6EbiY

>>211622054
>It's clearly a reference to real-world religious ideas, but what does it mean in the star wars setting?
The exact same thing.
The Force is an impersonal god, I have the feeling that is throwing you of for some reason.

>>211624418
Lucas was just so incapable of writing and directing a story that conveyed enough pathos for it to work. He could put all the pieces in place but was completely incapable of getting the rube goldberg machine of emotional motivations to play out on screen.

padme could have brought shmi with her in naboo
leaving her to rot in tatooine was cruel even for qui-gon jinn

>>211611589
Obito should've died in Kakashi Gaiden.

>>211610342 (OP)
>Did his fall to the dark side make any sense or was he just a massive retard?
Yes.

>>211625061

I imagine if he had come clean about it, they would have granted him an exemption. They had done it before (as a matter of fact, there was literally a member of the Jedi Council at the time, Ki Adi Mundi, who was granted an exemption to take several wives due to his species having a birth rate lower than South Korea's). If he hadn't come clean and they found out about it because a passing motorist noticed Anakin in a heavily pregnant Padme's apartment in the late hours of the night, they would have been far more inclined to expel him for his deception.

It all makes sense on paper. He was too attached, obsessive, and couldn't let go. The problem is, it's just stupid. We are supposed to believe that Anakin would literally go and murder people he'd grown up with, including children, betray everything he stood for, side with a literal devil, who was lying to him for years, who had orchestrated the war and was responsible for so much pain and suffering—all for Padme. And the problem with that is, they had zero chemistry, and their entire romance sucked balls, and only braindead femoids, who want to get fucked by Hayden Christensen, bought into it. Anakin and Padme's relationship is the crux of the entire story. And it just doesn't work. Christensen is a bad actor, who received awful direction and terrible lines. Portman just phoned it in entirely, even worse than Christensen. You can't empathize with it at all.

>>211625328
I don't think they will expel him even if he hid his attachment, he's still the Chosen One and they need all of the Jedi generals they can get

They'll simply deny him the Master rank and allow his relationship with Padme to continue

He and Obiwan should have come clean, even if Obiwan didn't want to snitch he could have at least strongly hinted even using the Force

>>211624563
>Padme gets made the head-of-state for an entire planet at the age of 14 and while she was probably originally intended to be nothing more than a figurehead, she gets thrust into a situation where she's forced to make life-and-death decisions that affect the lives of millions, if not billions, of people
Brother, she got fucking elected. She's a precocious career politician, not a fucking locked up princess.

>>211625361
>And the problem with that is, they had zero chemistry, and their entire romance sucked balls, and only braindead femoids

It make sense you realize Anakin and Padme are both profoundly dysfunctional people and prone to terrible decisions, see >>211624563

>>211625328
>Ki Adi Mundi, who was granted an exemption to take several wives due to his species having a birth rate
Non-canon fanfiction. Comic book writers did not know that Jedi don't marry (AotC didn't come out at the time), so they had to retcon this retarded shit that makes no sense and contradicts the entire story of the prequels. Not to mention, you forgot that Ki-Adi Mundi, according to the fanfiction comic books, was also a JEDI KNIGHT on the Council. That's also because EU writers didn't know about it, because RotS hadn't come out yet, where it was revealed that only JEDI MASTERS could be on the Council. "How can you be on the Council, and not be a Master? This has NEVER been done in the history of the Jedi, it's insulting."

>>211625463
Cool headcanon, bro. Shame that's not what the movies conveyed, and not what Lucas himself actually believed.

Alec Guinness envisioned the Jedi to be just space knights, not permavirgin space monks. He came up with the Satine concept that George passed down to Kasdan and later Genndy and then Filonislop.

>>211625177
That's because there was WAY more disclosure in TPM then ((they)) wanted.
And it was cool to shit on star wars.

>>211625447
>Brother, she got fucking elected.

Let's be honest, anytime someone that young gets made a head-of-state, elected or not, they're intended as the puppet of someone else. What made Padme stand out is that she proved more difficult to control than Palpatine anticipated.

>>211625464
>Non-canon fanfiction. Comic book writers did not know that Jedi don't marry (AotC didn't come out at the time), so they had to retcon this retarded shit that makes no sense and contradicts the entire story of the prequels. Not to mention, you forgot that Ki-Adi Mundi, according to the fanfiction comic books, was also a JEDI KNIGHT on the Council. That's also because EU writers didn't know about it, because RotS hadn't come out yet, where it was revealed that only JEDI MASTERS could be on the Council. "How can you be on the Council, and not be a Master? This has NEVER been done in the history of the Jedi, it's insulting."

You'd think George would be a lot more careful reviewing EU material before publication, especially since Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith were already in the planning stages by that point.

>>211625567
They specifically poked at the bad reception it got moreso than at the film itself

>>211625253
I like that qui-gon tried to include her in the deal with watto but didn't bother to press him when he said no. Just left her in slavery to honor his deal with a flying, hooknosed cockroach despite being a morally flexible sort who could've simply taken her with them.

Anakin's turn to the Dark Side sucks because he doesn't make the choice on his own because of [reason], but because he gets tricked into it because he's stupid enough to think Evil McMurder Sorcerer gives a shit about his marital problems. Palpatine should've been barely involved with Anakin's turn and simply took advantage of it once it happened. The turn being "because" of Padme in some fashion is a fine idea, but the way it happened is stupid. The Jedi should've either not been complacent incompetents at all, or they should've been even worse, instead they're this annoying middle ground. The Jedi being at their peak of goodness and then Anakin's turn comes out of nowhere and fucks everything up is far more compelling than the Jedi saying Anakin shouldn't be trained in movie one and then being shocked when his training is fucked up in movie three. Actually have the Jedi do something shady, or they're doing something good that Anakin misunderstands as shady, perhaps accidentally getting Padme hurt or even killed, forcing his hand. I dunno. It just feels like the laziest, dumbest way for him to turn to the Dark Side. I get that he loves his wife, but to immediately turn to child murder is insanely... Well, insane.

>>211625850
Killing Watto is not the Jedi way and could have alerted Jabba which the Jedi and Qui-gon do not want.

However after the Naboo shenanigans the least Padme and Qui-gon could have done was buy Shmi and have her live in Naboo.

Even George knew, deep down, that he screwed up. There is this very interesting quote in The Making of Revenge of the Sith book:
>"Showing how much Anakin and Padmé care for each other is one of my weak points," Lucas admits. "Expressing that is hard to do. It's really hard in the end to express the idea, I'm so in love with you that I would do anything to save you; I'd give up everything—friends, my whole life—for you, and make that real—make that stick—and say it in two minutes, which is all the time this film has for it. If I had a whole movie, I could probably manage it. But I can't go deep into the psyche of these people beyond a certain stylistic reality I've created for myself. It wouldn't work. It's also a very difficult structural issue," he adds. "And when I created it, I knew I wanted two hard right turns—it's designed to be that way—and I knew I was taking a real chance that it wasn't going to work. But you have to see if you can make it work. If it doesn't, well, then I'm going to get skewered for it. But if I can make it work, it'll be neat; it'll be good."

How are we supposed to buy into that? Through excellent scenes, such as "I AM SO IN LOVE WITH YOU! NO, IT IS ME, WHO IS SO IN LOVE WITH YOU! SO LOVE HAS BLINDED YOU? HEHEHEHEHE!"

>>211623141
Malak showed her a video of you having fun with Yuthura on Korriban

>>211625850
>I like that qui-gon tried to include her in the deal with watto but didn't bother to press him when he said no. Just left her in slavery to honor his deal with a flying, hooknosed cockroach despite being a morally flexible sort who could've simply taken her with them.

Consider that

>they're on Tatooine, which is deep in Hutt space
>they're cut off from contact with the Jedi Council and the Republic in general
>they're trying to keep their presence on Tatooine a secret, so Qui-Gon can't flex his authority as a Jedi or do anything to potentially attract attention to himself
>Qui-Gon probably had some sort of plan formulated in his head to get Shmi out of slavery once the Naboo crisis was resolved but died with Darth Maul's blade in his chest before he could act on it

>>211625197
Maybe. It seems pretty intuitive to you so maybe there's something I'm missing
>fear leads to anger... blah blah... DARK SIDE
Why though? You get angry, or you nut in Padme, you develop strong emotions. What next? Why does this make you act like an asshole using the force?
It seems natural to you to make a correlation to familiar ideas from real-world religion, but what are those ideas?

I'm surprised someone hasn't framed him as a poor kid groomed by a far-right extremist.

According to Yidsney canon, Anakin was 'born' by the Force as a result of Plagueis and Sheev using the Force as a shroud to hide themselves and the dark side

>>211610342 (OP)
Its literally too deep for you to understand. The idea of self deification to conquer death is the essence of all evil even irl. Its tempting and overpowering, its born out of fear and the premise of helping people and overcoming weakness. It makes perfect sense to me.

>>211626025
>"I can't possibly take more than two minutes in this two and a half hour film to show how much Anakin and Padme love each other, which is really fucking important to the plot! I simply can't!"
...Because...? Who the fuck is going to tell George Lucas how to Star Wars? Which audience member is going to complain "Aw, man, these characters are TOO well-developed!"?

>>211625878
>I get that he loves his wife, but to immediately turn to child murder is insanely... Well, insane.
This is what I'm trying to say in >>211626191 and >>211622054
WHY does "falling from grace" mean that Anakin has to slaughter children now? Falling from grace in religion means something personal, it doesn't mean you have to become violent.

>>211625061
>Forced as hell

>>211610620
>makes 0 sense
Blue balls can make a man do irrational things.

>>211625781
>You'd think George would be a lot more careful reviewing EU material before publication
That's because he didn't. At best, he rarely gave input when directly approached. By his own admission, he didn't actually read any of that stuff and wasn't involved with it. It was all just merchandise to him, no different from Hasbro toys: just easy money.

>>211625548
Yeah I mean Anakin was a knight and was openly Luke's father in the first movie, and that wasn't treated as some extraordinary thing
Luke seems more like a space ninja in RotJ

>Obiwan kills Maul
Becomes a Jedi Master
>Anakin kills Dooku and saves Palpatine
Doesn't become a Jedi Master

>>211615560
Gonk.

>>211610342 (OP)
>I'm really worried about my secret wife because I have these vague dreams oh well better kill my mentor, co-workers and students. Might as well swear loyalty to this fucking evil dude now that I got started too. Oops, I just killed my wife

The most iconic villain in scifi started out as a bumbling retard, just like the rest of us!

>>211626383
>Obiwan kills Maul
>Becomes a Jedi Master
No, he didn't. He just graduated from apprenticeship

>>211626322
Well if he developed their relationship more than loads of important WORLDBUILDING elements might have been cut. Like dexter jetster. Can you imagine AOTC without dexter jetsters 50's diner? I can't and I won't.

>>211626381
>Anakin was a knight and was openly Luke's father in the first movie,

To be fair, all of the stems from a single conversation between Obi-Wan and Luke without anyone else present to provide further context.

>>211626384
Based

>>211610342 (OP)
massive retard.
but the biggest retard is Lucas, who just remembered that that lame brat was going to be an huge evil robot in the next movie when e had only half movie left in hist trilogy about a guy becomig a huge evil robot

>>211626553

Imagine Anakin and Padme sharing a blue milkshake at Dex's

>>211626322
What's also funny is that, originally, Anakin's turn was far more politically motivated, and it was more about his loyalty to Palpatine. Originally, he was there at the Chancellor's office, when Mace & Co. came to arrest him. Then Lucas did a test screening, and the audiences they got were completely confused why Anakin would turn. So Lucas made tons of reshoots at the 11th hour, and made Anakin's turn be ALL ABOUT PADME. Everything at the Chancellor's office was reshot, although there are bits and pieces of the original sequence in there, you can see Palpatine having Anakin's lightsaber in some of the shots. That's why Lucas also added the scene where Anakin was alone crying at the Council's chamber. Remnants of the original motivation are still in the movie, but they make no fucking sense and are completely irrelevant, when his entire turn was changed to be all about Padme.
>"I have brought peace, justice, and security to my new Empire!"
>"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!!!"

>>211626706
That's fucking stupid, and even if the finished version isn't perfect, it at least makes more sense. Why the fuck would Anakin care about politics and care more about Palpatine more than Padme, Obi-Wan, and the other Jedi?

>>211626706

Palpatine's fight scene was also originally going to be filmed with a stunt double, but Lucas decided ON THE DAY OF FILMING that Ian McDiarmid just HAD to do it, so they had to give him a crash course on lightsaber dueling and that's why it looks so awkward in the finished version.

>slaughters countless innocent people for years
>gets to hang out as a force ghost with obiwan and yoda and appear to luke

???

>>211626838
He was totally super sorry, bro.

>>211610342 (OP)
Star wars is for faggots.

>>211626838
I'm picturing anakin meeting all the kids he killed in the force ghost lobby and doing pic related.

>>211626808
There was a digital stunt double :)

>>211626838
jeez he said he felt bad what else do you want from the guy?

>>211626787
Both suck. Anakin's character is all over the place and the movies are bad. But yeah, "muh Padamame" make a tad bit more sense, I'll concede.

>>211610342 (OP)
It makes sense because he was the one prophesized to bring balance to the force.

>>211613042
>anakin continued to serve palpatine faithfully, killing gorillions even after his wife was long dead and he had no further reason to listen to this retard
Not gonna lie I think this a pretty horrifying aspect of SW lore but palpatine basically imprisons Vader in his life support suit and has inhibitors and other fail safes in place in case Vader attempted to betray him. Anakin is a prisoner in his own body so rolling with sidius is his best option, not that he seems to have much issue with being sith to the max

>>211616252
Well maybe that’s why it’s so good, maybe he never truly gets redeemed and he dies a Sith Lord

>>211626982
Becoming a force ghost is a "technique" like mind trick or using your lightsaber like a helicopter. Not everyone can do it, you have to learn it. So those kids are shit out of luck.

>>211627151
>palpatine basically imprisons Vader in his life support suit and has inhibitors and other fail safes in place in case Vader attempted to betray him
Is this ass-canon or actual true? If so that makes good sense.

>>211627456
Obi-wan and yoda learned how to do that from qui-gon's ghost but anakin never did so it doesn't make sense how he came back in the first place.

>>211627486
I mean, it's fairly obvious. Star Wars has far better medical technology and prosthetics than what Vader got. Plus he's in a mechanical suit and Palpatine's main thing is shooting electricity.

>>211627486
Sounds like some bullshit from some source books or whatever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVzc20Bm8Xo
>EMPEROR PALPATINE MADE DARTH VADER'S COSTUME UNCOMFORTABLE ON PURPOSE!
>CHEAPEST MATERIAL WAS CHOSEN DUE TO TAX RATES ON THE PLANET OOMGABOOMLA

>>211627592
Anakin saw it in a holocron offscreen

>>211616252
>saving your son is still a fairly selfish motive
Correct. A true jedi wouldn't even have a son, and if they did by accident they would let him die at the earliest opportunity

>>211627592
The explanation is that he's the Chosen One, he became enlightened before his death, and basically Obi-Wan and Yoda helped him to do it before his consciousness could be dissolved into the Cosmic Force.

>>211610342 (OP)
he was autistic? or something

>>211627804
George? Yeah

>>211626808
That sounds like some bullshit a redditor made up

>>211627486
Not mentioned in the movie = not canon, simple as

>>211616252
My read was always that this is why it was possible for him to bring balance, he needed what caused him to fall to the dark side in the first place, love

>>211616252
The Force doesn't have a dark side. It's just the Force. All that stuff about "balance", "falling", all that shit is just Jedi theory that is ultimately just a theory about the human mind.

>>211626384
@gonk is this real?

>>211611263
>this is how autists conceptualize their actions mattering
Grim

>>211628290

My source is quite literally the behind the scenes documentary lol

https://youtu.be/GjdycGgeaIY?si=z0ePKYTsfyjNyhTS&t=252

Also I was partially mistaken, Lucas made the decision about a week before the scene was scheduled for filming, which is still incredibly short notice considering how much prep time went into the Anakin vs. Obi-Wan duel (like six months)

Join me /tv/ and together, we shall destroy the Sith

>>211630061
I'll never join you!

>>211629904
Not in the film, not canon

>>211630105
I'm sorry, then it would be difficult to secure your release...

How didn't the Council and Yoda specifically not detect Sheev with all of his Sith statues?

>>211610342 (OP)
>former slave
>Jedi don't lack for cash
>refuse to do the prudent thing with a too old prodigy and buyout Schmi's slave contract
>muh high minded shadow government of telekinetic jannies abducting children across the galaxy to prevent their prophesied overthrow artificially
>MAKE HIM A CHILD SOLDIER LEADING A CLONE SLAVE ARMY
>he's distracted by said war fighting such that his mother dies - preventably and horrifically - in bondage
>Obi-Wan doesn't even register there's been a coup by the Jedi against the Republic at face value and talking it out - like a Jedi - fights things out-- then leaves the crippled defenseless HARMLESS Anakin to burn alive: FROM THE NUTS UP

Obi-Wan & Yoda not telling Luke who his father is and inciting him to murder his own father is absolutely not-Jedi behavior, and the prequels make Obi-Wan allowing himself to be 'killed' and Luke defying the Emperor by not finishing his prostrate father in the throne room both hit harder. If Anakin and Obi-Wan (and Yoda) went to gank the Emperor and have a dictatorship for a time, you could be that Anakin goes on crusade to conquer the Outer Rims and totally annihilates organized crime of the Hutts and slavery-- where Sheev goes to reintroduce it as punitive labor reparations on CIS systems at first.

>>211626787
>Why the fuck would Anakin care about politics and care more about Palpatine more than Padme, Obi-Wan, and the other Jedi?

Clone slave army being an abomination that won't even enjoy citizenship/benefits. Council disallowing him and other more gung-ho Jedi to go on offense (Palps sets grand strategy, but tells him its the Senate). Being blocked from a Council seat and Jedi Master title despite the war record for fear of all that (and more, as a Chosen One with a personally loyal army all to himself). Lucas had other options to skin this cat more efficiently he failed to take in the run time. Dooku's introduction in the first film would have helped with exposition and pacing in general-- his ideology of Force users taking the reigns of power and stopping corruption by force (carlos.png) is closest to ROTS Anakin's position, and what's tempting him on Palps' side of the argument.

>>211626706
I think what would have made the movie more interesting is just do it Anakin pov so it shows how jarring everything is for him. Show more of the attack on the Jedi temple, I mean the movie is called Revenge of the Sith not Obi-Wans lizard chase adventure.

Anakin should be the one to defeat GG, he comes back to Coruscant only to find the Jedi are trying to kill the chancellor so he acts.

Obi Wan should have been the one sent to Mustafar looking for a lead on the seperatist leadership and has no idea whats going on, and its a secret mission by Jedi intelligence, he finds Anakin there murdering the Sep leadership and sees that hes fully turned to the darkside and their duel happens like that.

Anakin views Obi-Wan as a traitor because he wants to keep the leaders alive for questioning and its not the jedi way. Anakins goals for killing them are far more personal since they tried to kill Padme and him multiple times.

I think mirroring the duel with Maul in episode 1 Anakin should get burned while some force field generators split them him and Obi Wan apart, but this time some molten metal is poured in the room hes in. Obi Wan tries to save him but he cant, thinks Anakin is dead and leaves. Upon hearing what happened Padme loses the will to live and dies.

Anakin keeps himself alive with the force and binds himself into a mustafar, mining/factory worker suit which is basically his darth vader suit. Palpatine then gives him aditional cybernetic enhancements for breathing but is impressed that Vader was able to keep himself alive purely with the force. There is no surgery, Vader is magically bound to his suit with the force. He only dies in episode 6 because at that point he has willingly let go of his hatred.

>>211630178
>"Hard to see, the Dark Side is."
>The Jedi can't sense Palpatine because apparently he has Jedi-sensing-blocking powers

Shmi was bought by a loving family, she was just unlucky that Tusken Raiders were Tatooine's worst niggers.

>>211630178
a politician giving off an evil aura isn't noteworthy.

>>211631875
The Sith statues should have been a dead giveaway.

>>211613042
>anakin continued to serve palpatine faithfully, killing gorillions even after his wife was long dead and he had no further reason to listen to this retard
Didn't he plot to get Luke on his side to betray the Emperor? Even taking the re-shot Emperor scene from Episode V's DVD release into account, where the Emperor told Vader that Luke was Anakin's son and Vader said "How is this possible?", you can tell Vader was just playing dumb and already figured it out by then.

Anakin's turn is unsatisfying because of the way he was groomed from childhood. It doesn't feel like an adult making logical decisions. More like a child being easily swayed by the promise of chocolate and lollipops.

*jobs in 3 seconds

>>211610342 (OP)
Nah, you trippin, dawg

>>211632268
And he didn't even have the worst showing. I get that Palpatine was a powerful foe but Jesus, did Mace take a bunch of untrained newbies with him?

>>211618416
PT should have started with Anakin already as a charismatic adult from the beginning, already fighting in the clone wars. Have the opening of Ep3 with Anakin saying "this is where the fun begins" be the start of the trilogy. Establish the war as something that's been going on for years, a "forever war" like in the middle east and spans all 3 movies until finally coming to an end with the 3rd movie. They handled what should be covered by EU completely backwards, all the war stuff should have been the movies and weird stuff like Anakin as a small child and angsty teen should have been covered in cartoons and young adult books.
I disagree with the RLM criticism that we needed to see Obi Wan and Anakin's friendship develop. Han and Chewie are one of the closest bonds in the OT and we didn't see them become friends.

>>211632628
The funniest part is that the clone wars show turned him into one of the best duelist of the order and one of the most likeable character in star wars.
So now it's not only more stupid that he died in 3 seconds but it's also sadder.

>>211632632
>Han and Chewie are one of the closest bonds in the OT and we didn't see them become friends.
We see them AS friends, though. Obi-Wan and Anakin barely even act like they like each other. There's a vibe of "Yeah, yeah, you ARE talented in the ways of the Force, and I respect you as a student/master," but in no way would I call them friends. Obi-Wan calling Anakin his brother at the end of ROTS comes out of nowhere except now it's the sad emotional part where Anakin 'dies' so Obi-Wan has to have some dramatic dialogue so we can justify "he was a good friend" in A New Hope. A 'brother' would've spoken up on Anakin's behalf during the "We do not grant you the rank of Master" scene. A 'brother' would've found out about Anakin and Padme's marriage and helped keep it a secret. A 'brother' wouldn't have come at Anakin on Mustafar all aggressive and confrontational and spewing shit about absolutes, he would've been trying to find out what happened to his 'brother' (who was COMPLETELY FINE when he saw him last) and asking what huge turn of events caused him to turn like this, offering him help and understanding.

>>211619952
I'm pretty sure all the other Sith in the universe didn't become Sith because they were retarded.

>>211610342 (OP)
>Did his fall to the dark side make any sense or was he just a massive retard?
The problem is that it feels like Lucas could never decide whether Anakin truly fell to the Dark Side and became evil out of lust for power or if he just ended up joining Palpatine and following unsavory orders out of fear when he saw Mace Windu die. It all feels so unsatisfying because Lucas couldn't pick a lane so the movie is constantly waffling back and forth and Anakin's true motivations never feel clear or consistent.

>>211624921
Was in 3 stupid

>>211624902
But he was a damn good cop.

>>211633237
They should have shown him be outright evil. As it is they sucked all the meaning out of his self-sacrifice

>>211632268
https://youtu.be/TYDHH0sgo0g?t=45

>>211626025
>If I had a whole movie, I could probably manage it.
This retard literally had three movies.

>>211626025
he was convinced by speilBERG to both write and direct. regardless, at the very least he did have cool ideas that were salvaged by the clone wars animated show for the prequels.

>>211632268
>>211632628
>>211632856
I'm a pretty big George apologist, but he was fucking retarded for fucking up the choreography in this scene. The stunt coordinator had spent months creating a massive fight which shows how crazy fast Palpatine is supposed to be, and how outmatched the Jedi were, but then a few days before filming George decides he wants Ian McDiarmid to do the fight himself, despite having had no training whatsoever.

>>211616252
Makes sense

>>211633479
Making Palpatine and Yoda lightsaber fighters was a bad decision. Palpatine should have been using the Force to overpower and fuck up all the Jedi and Yoda should have come close to matching his power but be stuck on the defensive and made to retreat. Yoda versus Palpatine should have been a wizard battle, not a sword fight.

>>211633479
I watched almost this whole video before realizing someone went through this and added the lightsaber effects and that they didn't actually look like that during practice.

>>211633556
>>Yoda should have come close to matching his power but be stuck on the defensive and made to retreat. Yoda versus Palpatine should have been a wizard battle, not a sword fight.
>Yoda in ESB
>"Judge me by my size, do you?"
>Yoda in ROTS
>Clearly has trouble catching and throwing the senate pod back at Palpatine cause he's only like two feet tall

>>211610342 (OP)
If you watch episode 1, it's not directly said but implied that the men who wanna take Anakin away from Liam Neeson are gonna turn him bad. That they'll teach him the force, I guess they have but no one knew they would teach him the dark sude stuffs

>>211633479
What form is this?

>>211633556
Yoda looked so dumb zipping around like a bluebottle fighting dooku
https://youtu.be/wg1ydN42ukY?t=100
Who wants to look at this trash?

reminder that anakin is canonically the only sexhaver in star wars

Why did everyone in Starwars love democracy so much when almost no one participated in it?

>>211618416
>Anakin needed to be pushed to join Palp via 2 methods: perceived betrayal by the Jedi Council (political or morally) and perceived reason for the death of his lover by the hands of the Jedi.
No. Lucas was advised that Anakin needed to be betrayed by the Jedi, and he replied in exasperation that there it isn't Anakin's revenge. "Anakin is just greedy". There's nothing more to it than that.

>>211633656
empire strikes back never made any sense to begin with, manbabies were just bowled over by the pseudophilosophical dialogues

It makes perfect sense. The only reason you're confused is because you have the ability of foresight and the idea of the Jedi/light side as impenetrably good ingrained in you, so you can't naturally and organically experience and understand his descent. If it's all written down plainly on paper, in chrono order, without the influence of music or pacing or anything like that, it makes sense.

Padme NO! Your a Senator!

>>211634560
Palpatine's son. Chewbacca. Most Twi'leks.

The clone wars series made his turn to the dark side make even less sense

>>211634837
No, it's the opposite.

>>211634798
chewbacca had sex?

>>211610414
>Speed watcher forgot the sand people

>>211613042
Dumb ass he aided in slaughtering the Uchiha Clan!!!

>>211610782
this
people will meme about media literacy but realizing this is actual media literacy, the concept of understanding the films reason for doing what its doing
there is NO other way they could have portrayed him to keep in line with the established canon
the equivalent of painting yourself into a corner when it comes to writing

>>211635021
Unless Wookies give birth by laying eggs or something.

It makes more sense if you think Anakin is George's self insert and this is his way of explaining why he's a dick because he thought some woman betrayed him and this is all a "LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO LISA, YOU'RE TEARING ME APART!" story.

>>211635102
In the first film he had fear. He was forced to Abandon his mother. 2nd Film he has a bad premonition. Its real and his mother dies in his arms. He murders the sand people. 3rd film he foes to Yoda, Yoda says death is good; the Force

>>211634968
When are we going to get the Special Edition of ROTS that not only films new scenes with Ahsoka but also inserts her into previously existing scenes?

>>211633296
He killed women and children. He's not good by any means.

He felt he was justified, or he lied to himself to cope (I will not betray the republic). But the guy was doing evil deeds

>>211610342 (OP)
massive retard he force choke a pregnant woman that wanted to save

>>211611975
he staged his waifu death and blamed kakashi still strange he didnt try to kill kakashi before

>>211635317
>killed a tribe of thieving, murdering rapists who have literally never been shown to ever do anything other than thieving, murdering, and raping
Not such a bad thing.
>killed the younglings
This is bad, but the problem is that he doesn't do it on his own out of greed or whatever, he's clearly shown to be following Palpatine's orders just because he's now too afraid to back out. He's just like, "Well, I followed the wrong guy and I'm in too deep, guess I have to kill these kids because he said so..." but that sort of "stuck in a bad situation" context also makes it really weird when he's alone with Obi Wan screaming about how the Jedi are evil. The writing is all so inconsistent and confused.

>>211612674
mixed arian and asian redhead

>>211634758
>Im going to break with annie

>>211635608
Naboo's Girls Gone Wild!

>>211629616
Anon have you ever read a book in your life? Those are basic concepts in the philosophy of free will.
You're like those morons from Idiocracy who say "your shit sounds gay and retarded" lmao

>>211610342 (OP)
If I knew this faggot IRL I'd be like WTF is this guy's problem? Who gets conned into becoming evil and killing a bunch of children?

>>211635533
Anakin betrays his own ideals by murdering the sand people, and he feels bad about that.
Just like he feels like he betrayed himself by killing Dooku.

It being "correct" or not has nothing to do with it. *He* holds himself to a higher standard than this, and he let himself down. He failed the order and the code he followed and truly believed in (he believed in the cause more than Mace)

Your irrational hatred of the prequels blinds you.

>>211635533
>>killed a tribe of thieving, murdering rapists who have literally never been shown to ever do anything other than thieving, murdering, and raping
>Not such a bad thing.
Me going on a nigger killing spree might be morally right but I wouldn't classify it as a "good" thing honestly.

>>211636327
what? he was a rebellious teenage with anger issues the whole episode 2 and 3 he got more pressure for being "le chosen one"

>>211636386
Anakin takes his duties extremely seriously throughout ep 2 and 3. I don't know where you get the idea that he's being rebellious.

>>211636369
Killing black children because "they'll grow up to be thieving rapists" is exactly the type of thinking I'm saying is evil, correct.
Anakin certainly thinks so, even while he does it. Because he's understandably pissed.

>>211636449
The problem is that Tuskens are never, ever, EVER shown to do ANYTHING but kill and rape people. We don't see Tuskens in polite society going about normal business in any way, they're literally purpose-made antagonists with zero redeeming qualities. It isn't like killing black kids, it's like killing demon larvae.

>>211636369

If a pack of niggers kidnapped and tortured your mother to death society would celebrate you for slaughtering them all, yes. I never even knew people found Anakin killing Tuskens the least bit reprehensible until I found out that the internet commies didn't like it. Leftists are a special twisted bunch.

>>211636423
>Anakin dont do this
>Dew it

>>211636767
Leftists are all purity-spiraling virtue signalers who just say and think whatever gets them the most social brownie points.

From a certain point of view. A Jedi might wonder why he didnt use his Light Side Force powers to heal his mother and indeed, save Padme.

>>211636767
current society would call you genocide they re just minderstood culture

>>211636898
He's a Jedi Guardian like his master, hence the lack of his Force powers

If Qui-Gon was his master he would have been a Jedi Consular and learned more aspects of the light side, also he was lucky his mum was still half-alive and not bones

Blame Lars Senior for letting his slave wife venture too far without protection

>>211626287
That was canon before Disney took over anon.

>>211610342 (OP)
It was extremely poorly set up, considering Darth Vader gave the impression of having turned after becoming a wise, competent, adult jedi.
The problem with Anakin is that he always comes across as an angsty, rebellious teenager or young adult, who lacks wisdom and is easy to manipulate. Basically, he never gets to mature or achieve anything before his fall, and his fall is contrived. Instead of letting genuine doubt creep in, and having his fall be set off by a major, plausible event, he's just always angsty and is easily manipulated into becoming comically evil (literally murdering children).
There was nothing to redeem, because he never became a good or competent man, before becoming Darth Vader.

Kinda fucked up that Naboo's queen was like 14-16 years old and is already being subject to multiple assassination attempts.

Despite the facade, Naboo is a third planet shithole.

>>211636369
>>211636767

The evil part wasn't Anakin killing the warriors, it was

1. Him doing it in a fit of rage

2. Him doing it purely for the sake of vengeance

3. Him killing the women and the children, which was a result of him acting in a fit of vengeful rage.

If his mother was still alive and he had been forced to kill a couple of the warriors in self-defense while getting her out, that would have been different.

>>211611392
>ESL
remember when we call those grammar nazis? I miss those times.

If he was the Chosen One someone like Mace Dindu or Yoda should have trained him instead of a newly minted Jedi Knight like Obiwan.

>>211637852
It's been a while since I watched but none of the old farts even believed he was the one which is why they pawned him off to Obiwan

>>211637346
1st world constantly has politicians being assassinated retard, what are you even about? How retarded are you?

>>211611392
The browning of 4chan is becoming more and more apparent every day.