Thread 211686541

I feel like the public perception of Superman has had a similar trajectory to the public perception of clowns.

Both were originally seen as wholesome and generally harmless, but at some point, someone decided to subvert that expectation by making an evil version. As the years went on, the subversion overtook the original idea--now when someone sees Superman, they expect he'll be evil because it's been done so many times. They might even consider it unrealistic for him NOT to be evil.

>>211686541 (OP)
Even back when Superman was mostly seen as a wholesome do-gooder type it felt like every other storyline involved him being turned evil by brainwashing and then other heroes stepping in to save him / the day. That's the problem of making a character that's meant to be the most powerful of them all, you have to constantly invent ways to either make them temporarily vulnerable and/or evil just to have any stakes at all.

>>211686541 (OP)
1/10, the evil clown story was found IRL before it became a trope in fiction

>>211686705
>>211686541 (OP)
>Superman was a do gooder

>>211686705
nothing in a superhero property can ever have stakes because there will never be a resolution in the big two where the capefaggots lose at the end of it all. it’s like watching a car chase 20 minutes into a movie and you know it’s just padding for time.

>>211686748
If you're talking about John Wayne Gacy, Joker was created before he was even born.

>>211686541 (OP)
>>211686705
>>211686748
>He was always a gentle good boy

>>211686779
That image doesn't contradict anything.

>>211686833
>>211686779
Neither of these are examples of him being evil. He's not even harming them, he's just scaring them to get information.

>>211686541 (OP)
did an actual retard make this picture seriously
"le evil superman", homelander, and irredeemable. WILDLY. DIFFERENT. CHARACTERS. WILDLY. DIFFERENT. ARCS. WILDLY. DIFFERENT. THEMES.

>>211686890
Because they're both clearly inspired by the idea of an evil Superman?

>>211686828
No, I was using inductive reasoning. It's not uncommon for people to be bad, therefore there had been wife beating clowns, pickpocketing clowns, murderer clowns and the like way before the 20th century came and some guys came up with the Joker.

>>211686541 (OP)
He'd be tempted by evil and neglecting any notion of this turns him into a fraud which at his level is an untrustworthy monster. Snyder got Superman right.

>>211686874
>>211686881
He is far more threatening than Batman.

>>211686949
Ok, but it wasn't the norm. People wouldn't have regularly had clowns for children's birthday parties if they were immediately associated with murder and other crimes like they are today.

>>211686977
lol these panels are hilarious out of context.

But again, he's not being evil by deliberately using his powers to frighten rather than outright killing these criminals.

>>211687041
True

>>211686924
so they belong in a collage that is 3/5ths different evil superman variants? are people unaware of those characters to assume they're all evil superman variants? because that's what they're going to do - when they're not. it's pure nonsense and they shouldn't be there. that picture makes zero fucking sense and again only a retard could have designed it

and they can only tangentially say to be inspired by superman just as much as any hero that flies and punches things could. have you even read irredeemable?

>>211686992
AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I JOBBED TO ANON

>>211686960
He can be tempted, of course. But the fact that he has such immense power and is able to control himself is what makes him someone to look up to. It's what makes him a hero. Villains in these stories outnumber the heroes because most people don't have the self-control to avoid using their powers selfishly.

That's why I don't think that making a "what if Superman turned evil" story is particularly interesting. Using powers for evil is the common thing.

>>211687108
What does it matter if they're named "Superman" or not? They all come from the same idea of an evil Superman. If you are trying to claim that the creators of the Plutonian and Homelander didn't have Superman specifically in their minds, we have nothing more to talk about.

>>211687268
You forget that Superman losing control is a big trope of his stories. That's why Batman was gifted a kryptonite by Superman himself, because he knew he could be easily brainwashed. It's what most of Lex Luthor's plots devolved into. Either is making an evil clone of him, like Superboy, or brainwash Superman himself.
Wonder Woman, as a tertiary character, exists mostly to battle Superman whenever he turns evil, as an excuse to finally use her lasso.

It happens so fucking often that is almost established canon at this point that Superman's will is brittle as fuck.

>>211687268
Snyder wasn't doing what if Superman turned evil, he was doing why would Superman turn evil or rather what would break him, so as to be taken over by evil and how to prevent that (the answer was going to be sacrificial love, Batman offering up his life to save Lois').

>>211687399
I don't think those are examples of his will being brittle so much as he's an obvious target for any sort of brainwashing since having him in your control would make you unstoppable. The fact that he gave Batman kryptonite shows that he's aware of this himself.

>>211687504
I know, I'm not saying that Snyder turned him evil, I'm saying that that was a story of him being tempted rather than one of him turning evil.

>>211686779
thi comic is anti-Semitic.

>>211687512
Yeah, but the point stands. Because editors are stupid and writers are hacks it happens so often that you got to wonder why Superman always give in. Other DC heroes are tempted or brainwash but always manage to pull through. Superman needs to be saved, because once again... you know, hacks. Its always either Batman taking him down with kryptonite or by bringing Lois, exactly how it happened in that Zack Snyder's movie, or Wonder Woman battling him down into exhaustion or making him gain clarity with her lasso.

>>211687610
>>211686779
>superman starts targeting corrupt politicians and bankers
>suddenly the media's narrative changes all at once to how unhinged and dangerous he is

You know this would 100% happen irl.

>>211687732
Which is why during the 70/80s Superman was literally working as an errand boy for the US president whereas Batman was the cool rebel hunted by police men (corrupt, of course). That period was so lame.

>>211687732
BvS minus him doing the targeting. Not-Zuckerberg behind all of it.

What are the best Superman stories where he's just a really good guy?

>>211686977
Superman was more a character that did the equivalent of threatening to smack your kid's bottom.

>>211687610
It was written by jews that got outjewed by DC Comics, then died in poverty as a result.

>>211686541 (OP)
Superman is a story.
Clowns are real.