Luke was a Mary Sue, there is no honest way of disputing this.

>>212006607 (OP)
>Mary Sue
This was just a way for liberal nerd cowards to say it's shit because women aren't good heroes

>>212006639
>women aren't good heroes
That's just a way for chuds to say "I hate women because they all reject me"

>>212006675
Nice way of projecting. People don't like women who are badly written, that is all

This would never happen because Girl Luke would be every guy's waifu.

Neckbeards and incels don't mind if a girl kicks ass if she's cute and fappable.

The ultimate mark of a Mary Sue has nothing to do with abilities or accomplishments. It’s that everyone immediately likes her, or at the very least gravitates towards her.

>>212006675
>chuds
This is just a way for tranny skitzos to say "I hate white men because they won't date a proud and stunning trans woman"

>>212006607 (OP)
Stop using AI you fucking fascist

>>212006607 (OP)
How? Dude was a naive, reckless moron until ROTJ, and that's because he got humbled when Vader kicked his ass.
You want an example of a Gary Stu? Look at Harry Potter, which is ironic considering Harry Potter is basically Star Wars for girls.

>>212006607 (OP)
Here's a secret: nobody actually cares of a character is a Mary Sue or Gary Stu or whatever, you just need to make them likeable.
Your example is funny because I can assure you a genderbent Luke would have gotten hordes of waifufags.
Rey didn't because she's bitchy.

>>212007015
Harry would be a gary stu if he could do everything Hermione and Ron could do, Harry is carried through all 7 books by his friends and adults willing to sacrifice themselves for him and everyone knows it.

Putting the nonsensical nature of Rey's powers,

Rey is still a Mary Sue by definition because she is a (1) new character who is encroaching on an established franchise, (2) was introduced in the wake of Disney decanonizing legends, and (3) first appears in a movie that is literal fanfiction.

As the first piece of media in the franchise, a female Luke would've been fine.

Luke is also a fucking Skywalker which justifies his power. The fact that they rehashed this for Rey "Palpatine" or "Skywalker" only proves the Mary Sue criticism.

>>212007100
>chosen one even though it doesn't make sense for there to be any chosen ones
>rich
>immediately good at flying
>wins his first match of quidditch by catching the snitch
>also happens to be a good hitter or whatever the guys with the bats are
>everyone immediately tells him he's so talented and brave, something that keeps happening in every single movie
>in the movie he kills the bad guy simply by touching him
>literally everyone but Voldemort and Malfoy likes him
And that's without mentioning how it was literally impossible for the big bad to kill him.

>>212007215
*Putting aside

>>212007100
>books
I’ve neither read them or watched any of the movies and even I know he was talking about the movies, as a common complaint is the movies missed the relationship between the three characters.

>>212006607 (OP)
The original Mary Sue, the source of the name, was an author self-insert in a Star Trek fanfic.
She one-upped Spock in terms of science and logic. She outdid McCoy in terms of medical expertise. She knew the engine better than Scotty. She was better than legends in their fields, in their own fields. Worst of all, they praised her for it.
One incredible shot, guided by magic, does not make Luke a Mary Sue. He was a dumb lucky kid who constantly needed saving. He had to grow into being a hero.

>>212007217
>chosen one even though it doesn't make sense for there to be any chosen ones
He was literally chosen, by Voldemort
>rich
This isn't a significant factor on anything ever
>immediately good at flying
That's just his one natural talent, you might as well say Luke was a mary sue because he was good at flying.
>wins his first match of quidditch by catching the snitch
He won a sports game and that makes him a mary sue? Should he have just eaten shit? Maybe Luke should have failed the death star shot.
>everyone immediately tells him he's so talented and brave, something that keeps happening in every single movie
Brave sure, talented?
>in the movie he kills the bad guy simply by touching him
His mother's enchantment did that, not anything Harry himself could do, Voldemort works around this protection later on.

He wasn't he barely survived the Death Star and got mutilated by Vader. Compare to ray who immediately knew how to fix and fly the Millennium Falcon despite it being an aged relic of a ship model which she wouldn't of discovered on Tattooine (its fucking Tattooine kys, I don't care if it's Jannyku). Then she gains a lightsaber and beats Rylo Kens ass.

>>212006607 (OP)
I look like the character on the left and I hate women.

>>212007352
>He was literally chosen, by Voldemor
There's a literal prophecy that says so.

>That's just his one natural talent
Natural talents don't exist, even Luke had practice flying before.

>He won a sports game and that makes him a mary sue?
He's also immediately taken into the team for catching one ball, he's the youngest member of a team in a century, is mentioned how dangerous quidditch is and how rare catching the snitch is.
Considering the match was barely tied to the plot yeah, he should have either lost or gotten knocked out.
>His mother's enchantment did that
I guess it's pretty easy to handwave lazy storytelling with magic.

Luke's accomplishments in 4
>kills a few stormtroopers
>crosses a chasm with a zipline
>gets a lucky shot thanks to god's intervention
What killed people about Rey was
>she was an expert pilot, mechanic, fighter and jedi all right out of the gate
She didn't really have to grow, she beats the main villain in the first movie, a decision that made the entire trilogy kind of hollow as you watched whipped incel vader fail to do anything and rey just BTFOs him every time with middling effort

>>212007487
Want a cookie for that?

>>212007526
There was a prophecy that could have referred to Harry or Neville. Voldemort decided Harry must be the one, that's why Harry is the chosen one. Voldemort chose him

>>212006607 (OP)
If you're over the age of 13 and care at all about Star Wars you're an enormous faggot.

>>212007538
Yes please. Why post something so obvious? Nobody actually likes women, they only like wet holes.

>>212006607 (OP)
The problem is JJ Abrams just has no fucking clue how the Force works.
In one moment Kylo Ren tells Snoke that Rey "is experimenting with her power", as if the Force was something latent like a superpower instead of something that needs to be trained.
But you know the worst part? That they never do anything cool with her.
She's never in any danger, not because she's overwhelmingly powerful, but because the villains are all super weak and stupid.
She never does any display of power aside from insta-learning Force abilities.

>>212007610
>wanting a cookie
>obvious
So you are fat.

>>212006835
yeah it's always women that are badly written, never men... they are always perfect.

>>212007676
I am fat. But still I am more likeable than a woman.
I’m going to stop replying before anon tells us to get a room.

>>212006607 (OP)
Closing your eyes and letting allah take a shot for you is not the same as being a complete expert at everything you even attempt. Luke constantly gets bodied throughout the trilogy—Rey never loses a fight. The first time Rey touches a lightsaber she beats Kylo Ren and he has to be saved by deus ex machina. Heck, even Finn is somehow able to land a blow on Kylo when he uses a lightsaber. The sequels are hot garbage and you should feel bad for defending them in any way

>>212007707
Star Wars itself had plenty of well written female heroes like Jaina, Tahiri or Jarael.
Blame Disney for getting terrible writers like JJ Abrams, who has proven to be a low IQ moron who doesn't even know how space works.

>>212007738
Nah. fat people are worse, at least chicks can be hot.

>>212007707
why are you making retarded ass blanket statements? forehead girl was badly written. that's all.

>>212007100
he even nearly fails some of his classes. He's pretty stupid for a chosen one.

>>212007880
No one cares about EU fanfic slop for obese virgin niggers. That crap might as well not exist, and you are a massive faggot for even bringing it up on a television and film board.

>>212006607 (OP)
>mary sue is when the protagonist needs to constantly be rescued by more competent people
Uh...okay? Luke's one achievment in the trilogy is blowing up Deathstar 1, and even there he was guided by Obi-Wan first and foremost. He can't save his family, he bungles Leia's rescue, almost gets killed by a Wampa, doesn't complete his training, fails to rescue Han, gets beaten by his dad and almost falls to his death as result, bungles the first rescue of Han and has to be saved from the Emperor by his dad. Oh and he doesn't get the girl at the end either.

>>212007302
I agree with everything you said except
>One incredible shot, guided by magic, does not make Luke a Mary Sue.
It's set up in a new hope that Luke has practice shooting womprats about the same size as the ventilation hole.

>>212006607 (OP)
Anakin's a better case for a mary sue than Luke, but everyone always focuses on luke

>>212007995
>if I say nigger and faggot than I’ll blend in and they’ll stop calling Rey a Mary Sue

>>212008073
>false dichotomy fallacy
>phonefag filename
Way to out yourself, tranny. Go back.

>>212008053
It’s because people already don’t like the prequels, so deranged trannies and feminists don’t feel any inclination to ruin them. They only go after things that people like, so they can ruin them.

>>212006607 (OP)
who the FUCK cares you star wars faggots

>>212008092
>f-fallacy! You can’t call me a tranny using your phone, you have to do it with a computer!
It turns out that I can in fact call out your horrible attempts at blending in while I sit on my front porch. You will never be a woman.

>>212006607 (OP)
leftoids cant meme

>>212007995
That slop had way better writing than Disney's Spectre-tier low IQ crap.
Troy Denning is a genius compared to JJ or that feminine fatty of Rian Johnson.

I was seeing TFA some time ago last year
and I never really notice mary sue aspect
even when people talked about
it too seemed consistent with other heroes...

but then I noticed that she is liked by EVERYONE she meets
>ball of metal droid? instant her puppy
>nigtrooper? instant love
>chevie? she speaks his grrrrr somehow
>han solo? he immediatly offers he crew position
>anus eye socket lady... rey is the chosen one and she needs light saber
>kylo ren, omg she defies me and is strong, love me mommy

that aspect is not that typical
but is women wish fulfillment fantasy

>>212006884
Rey is fappable though the character is just unlikeable.

>>212008257
No she's not.

>>212007998
That was him bragging to a more experienced pilot so they’d even let his yokel ass try to make the shot. He only hit the target because he used the force, aka let go and allowed the universe to aim for him. Go back and listen to Obi Wan’s lessons to Luke while he’s wearing the face shield. He isn’t saying “just be confident in your own abilities, you badass animal sniper”. He’s telling him to be humble and trust the force.

>>212006607 (OP)
Luke never spoke about my rights or empowered women. Lady Luke looks like a cool waifu.

>>212008275
nah I agree she is pretty fappable. I've spilled a lot to her.

>>212006914
more often than not, at least on /tv/, it just means it's a troll post.

>>212008313
Then you must jack it to any chick as long as she's skinny.

Girl luke would have made the incest subplot much better

>>212008282
Lucas goes out of his way to establish his piloting ability in the cut scenes and original draft. I think it's fair to say it's a combination of them both.

Luke is useless for 90% of ANH until given enough training, guidance from Obi and the right moment to finally utilize all of that and merely guide some missiles into a hole. There's a clear arc.

The concept of a hero training and deliberating his way to some kind of greatness or competency is foreign to women.

>>212008445
The sequel trilogy was written by men, just stupid low IQ men.

>>212006607 (OP)
In Star Wars logic, flying a spacecraft is basically the same as flying a car. Also, the Force and Obi-Wan helped him make the shot to blow up the Death Star. It wasn't something he did just because he was a naturally gifted marksman or whatever.

>>212008370
Sure. He needed to be a damn good pilot to make it far enough to take the shot. He also needed a lot of help, from Han and others. The shot itself, that destroyed the Death Star, was guided by magic/the force. None of that makes him a Mary Sue.

>>212008480

Ostensibly, but trust that women were looking over every shoulder and participating in every discussion, neurotically making sure Rey was unimpeachable. The feminist insistence on being unrealistically perfect is why they can't create a lovable character.

>>212007707
Yes the men usually end up washed up and pathetic.. like luke skywalker

>>212006607 (OP)
Luke only Force perception or whatever it's called in the final battle, something he had practicing for the whole movie. Rey was mind controlling stormtroopers halfway through hers without even seeing anyone do it first.

>>212008588
>The shot itself, that destroyed the Death Star, was guided by magic/the force
He just learned about the force that very day though, so how was he already so ultraskilled in it that he could utilize it like that?

>>212007997
>doesn't complete his training
Imagine female Luke leaves training early to dutifully save her friends, who end up hooking up with each other making female Luke a third wheel. Can you imagine the seethe from roasties?

>>212008661
>something he had practicing for the whole movie
No he didn't, why are you lying? There is a single scene of him doing this
This is the full extent of his training

>>212006607 (OP)
>disrespected and disregarded by every character except Obi-Wan
That single fact alone undermines your incorrect statement. Soijak image posters need to be systematically euthanized.

>>212008791
>hey what if the movie suddenly became porn
Coomers really are the male equivalent of neurotic feminists, both going to schizophrenic lengths to prevent good writing from being a thing.

>>212008636
Considering JJ's previous work and that Rian Johnson is just a pretentious version of Joss Whedon that wouldn't be needed for them to write characters this badly.

>a...actually 'Mary Sue' just means 'liked by other characters'
The fact that chudcels have to continuously change the criteria for "Marie Sue" in order to defend Luke just proves how much of a Mary Sue he is

>>212008759
He used to bullseye womp rats in his T-16 back home.

>>212007657
Disney is too pussified to portray actual OP force users.
Videogames are the only ones where Jedi fight according to what we know of them.

Male Mary Sue = will pay money
Female Mary Sue = will NOT pay money
Simple as.

>>212009083
Wait so it wasn't the force but his shooting skills? Make up your mind, chuddie.

>>212008988
Basically flawless, liked by everyone, uniquely competent and gifted. Part of a narcissistic fantasy that removes all tension and conflict from any story.

>>212009131
Bit of both I guess.

>>212006607 (OP)
Nobody liked Luke until he earned their respect, he has strange talents bc of the force, he gets his uncle killed, and endangers his friends bc of his hubris.

>>212009087
Disney panders to the perma-opressed millennial audience, so power fantasies are a no-no.
It's also why they hate Jedi and love Andor, it's not due to writing, it's just they NEED to self insert as characters and can only do that if the main character is weak, achieves little and is opressed by a seemingly invincible enemy.
And Jedi aren't that, Jedi can easily deal with those troops that the millennials go
>OMG SO SCARY
over.
Something similar happened with Darth Vader, which Disney keeps trying to portray as a "horror villain" despite getting his ass kicked by a padawan.

And it's also why you the New Republic is incompetent or why you'll never see any movies covering the last victory of the NR over the Empire, the loser audience Disney wants can't comprehend the idea of overcoming difficulties, just a perpetual resistance.

>>212009251
>And Jedi aren't that, Jedi can easily deal with those troops
Why were they all slain like absolute bitches during Order 66 then

>>212009251
>Something similar happened with Darth Vader, which Disney keeps trying to portray as a "horror villain" despite getting his ass kicked by a padawan.
So the chud narrative is now that Darth Vader is supposed to be weak and pathetic and that making him strong is millenial trash?

>Trannoid trying to hard to push a Mary sue narrative
>’b-but if he was a girl’
Dude just accept that you got BTFO in your own thread. George clearly modeled his protag on the hero’s journey template and disney skipped step 5-8. Your dilation is imminent.

>>212007880
>Jarael
lmao

>>212006607 (OP)
Ngl if Mary Sue looks attractive than I really don't care. Bonus if she has big melons

>>212009281
Because they were stabbed in the back.
After that you have Cal Kestis walking around Coruscant killing stormtroopers by the dozens, and then a padawan caused the death of both Vader and the Emperor.
Jedi are extremely dangerous, it's why the Empire wanted them gone, because even a single one could cause a shit ton of trouble.

>CHUDCHUDCHUD
seek help

>>212009321
He's strong but not much compared to the decades of media we've seen.

Vader has never made a single impressive display of power, hell most of the times he's faced of against one he's gotten his ass kicked, and even Disney contributed to this with the Obi Wan show.

>>212006607 (OP)
Luke may have been overpowered, but his character had struggles. He started out as just a naive farmboy and needed training to do anything. He was defeated by Vader and lost his hand. He was tempted by the dark side. He had to rely on his friends as he couldn't do everything himself. He didn't understand starships like Han or the Force as well as Obi or Yoda, he didn't understand Galactic politics as well as Leia.

The problem with Rey is not that she is OP, the problem is that she never struggles with anything, her character at the beginning of the movie is the same as character that she is at the end. She starts the movie already knowing how to fight, pilot starships, use the force to escape capture, defeats Kylo every single time she fights him, etc, etc.

She has basically no character arc, which is what makes her a poor character. "Mary Sue" is just a primitive way for brainlets to try to articulate this feeling.

Compare Rey to KOTOR II's Meetra Surik, who is canonically female and one of the most powerful jedi that ever lived. Meetra Surik aka the Exile has to face a lot of personal struggles, and people love her character.

It has nothing to do with how powerful a character is, but with the journey to get there.

>>212009424
*against a Jedi

What went wrong

>>212008801
Yeah and by the end of the film he can barely do shit with the Force while Rey with no training or no Jedi mentor can manipulate the Force easier and better in just TFA than Luke could even do by the end of ESB.
But again it isn't Rey's abilities that make her a Mary Sue, it's that every character immediately likes her as a friend/ally, or respects her as an enemy. Luke had none of this and was disregarded as a stupid hick kid until he had to prove otherwise.
>>212009251
I don't understand the need to self-insert into characters. Are people that braindead they can't do the simplist of abstraction?
>>212009380
chud/cuck and incel/tranny wordpairs need to be swapped or all 4 need to be autoban strings; only way 4chan will ever improve from it's dreary state, offing these stupid newfag parrot words would be a start.

>NOOO YOU CAN'T DEPICT VADER AS POWERFUL AND IMPRESSIVE! DISNEY RUINED VADER BY NOT MAKING HIM A FUCKING WEAK LOSER
Chuds have truly gone insane

>>212009588
No, it's just silly to pretend he's intimidating.
Oh look, he killed a bunch of normal soldiers with ease at the end of Rogue One, something literally any Jedi can do.
And if Vader was that strong he wouldn't have been humiliated by Luke.

>>212008801
he's a natural
just look at him

>>212009251
Andor and R1 are great because it makes the Jedi and Sith look more powerful by contrast. When Vader enters the Rebel corvette at the end of R1 and wrecks shit left and right after force users being absent from the whole movie, it really gives you a feel on how powerful these characters were.

It has nothing to do with whatever schizo culture war you are fighting in your head, it's a plot device to show us the Galaxy from the eyes of non-force sensitive people which in the end serves to highlight how powerful an actual force user is.

And btw the Prequel Trilogy was loved by millennials retard, it was the Gen Xers that disliked it.

>>212009563
>But again it isn't Rey's abilities that make her a Mary Sue, it's that every character immediately likes her as a friend/ally, or respects her as an enemy.
You had to invent this new definition of Mary Sue so that you can call Rey one without also calling Luke one. Desperate.

>>212009640
Pure chuddie desperation lmao

>>212009588
Whom are you quoting?
>chuds
Oh it's retarded.
>>212009655
You're a retard.

>>212008759
You’re making two assumptions here:
That Luke training under Obi Wan happened the same day as the trench run.
That using the force in the way Luke did required him to be “ultraskilled”.
Neither of those things are spelled out by the movie. We don’t know how long the trip from Tatooine to Alderaan took. Multiple cuts, complete changes in tension, and the way Han announces their arrival time suggest longer than half a day. It wasn’t long enough to master the force, surely, but there’s nothing suggesting Luke needed mastery, or ultraskill, to use the force to make the shot.

>>212009688
>Whom are you quoting?
This guy:
>>212009640
>>212009251

>>212009674
Desperation of what? Anything intimidating about Vader vanished in 1983 after Luke made him cower like a bitch.

>>212009131
>/tv/ is one person

>>212009751
Chuds are a hivemind, yes.

>>212006607 (OP)
You cant be a mary sue if you are the original character in a new story. Mary sues come in sequels (fan fictions) amd suddenly do everything right and are liked by everyone.
Luke "built" the story

>>212009703
Hmm, I didn't see any of that projective capslock greentext in either of those posts. So watcha doin rabbi?

>>212009791
Stop lying, chud. This is what chuds actually argue.
>>212009740

>>212009655
Rey has no character arc. She's poorly written.
Even small shit, like having a memorable quote. Every single character in Star Wars has a memorable quip (to the point it sometimes becomes overused and cliche but I digress), yet there is NOTHING memorable about the Sequel Trilogy characters.

Obi: "Hello there", "I have a bad feeling about this", "If you strike me down, " etc.
Vader: "I find your lack of faith disturbing"
Leia: "“You have your moments. Not many of them, but you do have them." "you scruffy looking nerf-herderer"
Yoda: "Do or do not. There is no try."
Han: "No reward is worth this." "I love you, I know"
Lando: "“This deal is getting worse all the time.”

Try to remember a memorable Rey quote or moment, there's nothing, that's how uninteresting she is.

>>212009853
That Vader isn't scary? Yeah.
There's already been literal lovecraftian abominations in Star Wars, Disney just jerks Vader off because they can't write any villain, let alone an intimidating one.

>>212008844
The lady doth protest too much. Hooking up doesn't mean you have to show them engaging in intercourse.
What's more, if you only gender swapped Luke roasties would be absolutely seething over han solo perpetually talking down to female Luke not to mention Vader taking gender bent Luke's hand.
Women can't write hero's journey stories because they can't fathom real adversity nor real honor.

>>212006607 (OP)
Luke was going to die before hitting the exhaust port, Han rushes in right before Vader is going to destroy him, and save his life. Luke was only able to get to that point because of the sacrifice of all the other fighters he was flying with. Hell, Luke gets btfo in Empire when he faces Vader one on one. The fight only last a while because Vader is gauging his skills. When Luke makes him angry, he instantly hacks his hand off. The person that made that image, and the faggot that posted it are brain dead, quite literally unable to make conscious thoughts of their own.

>>212009916
>Han rushes in right before Vader is going to destroy him
Vader wouldn't have been able to destroy him though because Vader is extremely weak and pathetic

>>212007061
>I can assure you a genderbent Luke would have gotten hordes of waifufags
Luke was a girl in the second draft.

>>212006607 (OP)
>almost btfo on Hoth by a wampa
>got his hand chopped off
>initially disappointed yoda
>sperged out and ran away from his training
>fucked up rescuing Han
>never got to bang his sister
Luke has too many flaws and failures to be a Gary Stu

>>212009909
>Hooking up doesn't mean you have to show them engaging in intercourse.
You talk about writing when the first thing you went for is having femLuke having a threesome?
Even more when war movies shouldn't have any romantic subplots, that shit's for teen girls.

>Women can't write hero's journey stories because they can't fathom real adversity
Neither can you millennials or zoomers, your idea of adversity is internet flamewars.
Have this hypothetical femLuke be something actually fucked up, like an ex-child soldier used by the Empire, that's bound to make a lot of people uncomfortable.

This is easily the worst board on 4chan

>>212010072
Threesome was never brought up retard, and it's not millennials fucking movies up, it's GenX.

>>212010150
>Imagine female Luke leaves training early to dutifully save her friends, who end up hooking up with each other making female Luke a third wheel.
Now that's real adversity.

>>212006607 (OP)
>Luke was a Mary Sue

- Lose your parents
- Farmer with no notable skills
- Lose your mentor
- Lose fight against Darth Vader
- Also lose your hand
- Lose another fight against Darth Vader

They'd never have allowed Rey to lose this much.

>>212010072
>Even more when war movies shouldn't have any romantic subplots, that shit's for teen girls.
Why do you want the male leads to be gay so bad? The hero saves the day and gets the girl. Simple.

>>212010250
No, I want Star WARS to focus on the war aspect.
Romantic subplots have never added anything of value to movies.
Hell, look at the OT, Han and Leia became boring precisely because they were stuck on a romantic plot.

>>212006607 (OP)
The originals are really enjoyable to watch so you're willing to suspend your disbelief and go along with it. The new films can be a bit boring so you notice all the errors. It was never about the power level of the character

>>212010187
Threesome is never implied there. Do you know what a third wheel is?

>>212010292
>Romantic subplots have never added anything of value to movies.
Bro, you're autistic. Your opinion means nothing.

>>212010413
I'm sure you can tell me what does mushy crap like that have to do with fighting a war.

>>212010298
Rey's a horribly broken Mary sue!!!!!
Han Died and Leia hugs the smelly, nasty, dirty, Stank Ass sand bitch she met but a moment ago and Not Chewie, a beloved friend, literally family in all sense of the word other than genetically who she's known for 40 Years!!!!!

>ctrl F "chud"
>15 results
Shit like this is why nobody shed a tear for the doxxed tranny jannies during the hack

>>212008282
No that was him establishing he had prior experience piloting and shooting shit. Like the other scene with him practicing with lightsaber shows prior to his death star killshot he some degree of familiarity with the force. He's using two skills, his piloting, that's was set up in another scene, and his force use, that was set up in a prior scene.

Why do ESLs not know what Mary Sue means and thus not understand that the main character of an original work can never be one?

>>212006639
>No powers to start out
>New Hope has him using blasters and learning the ropes from a Jewish master
>Strikes Back has him still learning, making mistakes and improving through great struggle under the tutelage of Yoda, another Jewish master
>Return has Luck finally as a full blown Jewish, able to use his powers.

>Rey is introduced as having full Jewish powers without any training whatsoever. The end.

>>212010589
I meant to type Jedi not Jewish lol

>>212010214
>- Farmer with no notable skills
What about those skills that allowed him to destroy the death star on his first space flight/military mission ever?

>>212010589
>>212010607
Schizo rants about Jews so much that he can't even write any other word starting with "J"

>>212011246
He's a Jedi. They're basically magicians.

>>212011307
So he DOES have very notable skills

>>212006607 (OP)
>takes 3 movies to defeat anyone in combat
>mary sue
mods please permaban this trolling retard

Wokes/SJWs hate when you call her Mary Sue.

>>212011246
He has force affinity which subtley augments his reflexes, and he spent years killing whomp rats in narrow canyons on his home planet

>>212011293
Hoooo boy do you have a rabbit hole to go down friend

>>212011246
He didn't do shit, just land a single lucky shot. Galen Erso did all the legwork sneaking in that flaw in the DS in the first place.

>>212006607 (OP)
>mary sue
Do people not realize this term is in reference to a specific character? It's not some generalized term created to malign female characters. It's getting difficult to tell if the threads on 4chan are bait or actual hypersensitive redditors spamming shit.

>>212010078
Every other board is also like this now.
>autist gets triggered by something
>I must make 3 threads a day about this for the next 5-10 years!

>>212012867
its become a general term to describe really any character that has no flaws, is the best at everything, and is universally loved.

>>212011779
>He didn't do shit, just land a single lucky shot
Chuds have to claim now that both the hero and the villain of SW are pathetic losers, just to avoid calling them Mary Sues... wow...

>>212013025
I know, what I'm saying is that a female name wasn't used intentionally to associate it with female characters. It was the name of a character who displays those traits to a comical degree. Fags react to the term mary sue like it's some gender based slur.

>>212013102
Retards accuse anyone using that term on a female character of misogyny and they conveniently forget that it also has a male equal counterpart, the Gary Stu.

To recap the arguments of chudcels for why Luke is not a Mary Sue:
>destroying the death star is really easy
>also Luke didn't even do shit, he just got lucky
>also he cannot be a Mary Sue because ackchually Mary Sue means "character who is beloved by all other characters"

>>212006607 (OP)
PEOPLE STILL DON'T KNOW WHAT A MARY SUE IS HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA. Yeah, man. Odysseus was a Mary Sue too! So was Hercules! The last movie to watched where the protagonist won and everyone was happy, they're a Mary Sue too now! You FUCKING RETARD.

>>212013357
A Mary Sue is a NEW character in an already established property or story where everyone loves them without question, they do everything right, never get hurt, and just win.

>>212013441
>HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA
You aren't actually laughing chuddie, you are weeping

>>212013441
>Odysseus was a Mary Sue
Odysseus is the opposite of a Mary Sue. He is deeply flawed, prideful, deceitful, and often reckless, and he constantly pays the price for it. His journey is just years of suffering.

>>212013515
Why would I be weeping? Because nobody after 7 years after hearing "Mary Sue" still don't know what it actually means? I admit it's sad that something so easy is lost on retards, but I can't fix stupid. I can only laugh at you monkeys for thinking Luke, an original character, who was the protagonist in a new property, who found his calling because he is linked the some magical thing called the force, who was written with the Heroes Journey in mind, is a Mary Sue. LOL fucking stupid. Call Clint Eastwood in A Fistful of Dollars a Mary Sue then.

>>212013617
Yeah, you're right. Horrible example by me.

>>212013677
Wow, really touched a nerve didn't I

>>212013099
I didn't say he was pathetic, he did a lot as a Jedi but you are overhyping his role as an X-wing fighter pilot, he was escorted by other (better) pilots than himself, and the DS already had the built in flaw, all he needed to do was nail that torpedo shot, which he did by using the Force.

>>212013677
He doesn’t, anon, that’s the thing.
He’s being disingenuous to poison the well, simply because he’s assmad that a character he likes which does fit the description gets called out as such.

>>212013677
>nobody after 7 years after hearing "Mary Sue" still don't know

>>212013732
>which he did by using the Force.
which he didn't even know existed a day before lmao

>>212010562
It's not just ESL's. Women take the accusation that a female character is a Mary sue personally.

>>212013747
Name one Rey moment as memorable as this.
One memorable line.
Something.

She has no character arc, she is extremely dull and poorly written, some blank slate souless character written by a corporate commitee.

>>212013767
It's true though. People make these threads or call an OG character a Mary Sue. People still don't know or they're making troll threads because they have autism and think it's funny.

>>212006927
What do Republicans have to do with AI?

>>212009539
both are shit

>>212013795
Which he has inside of him because of his father.
>b-but he didn't even know what this magical new thing is in this sci-fi movie a day prior!
You should stop watching movies. You're making me defend a series I don't even like, you piece of shit.

>>212006607 (OP)

>flown before
>shows him shooting at tie fighters in the falcon
>only reason he succeeded was cause han rescued his ass

>>212013867
Want to hear a good joke, anon?
>and I…………..am all the Jedi
Was supposed to be Rey’s equivalent to that line.

>>212013901
Playing doubles advocate, a lot of people shitting on Rey for being a Mary Sue inadvertently muddied the water because they didn’t know what the term meant either, which means the shit smeared mongoloids that like the ST have been playing with a short deck since day 1.
To this day people think Rey is a Sue primarily because of her power level due to that being hyper focused on, when that’s a relatively minor detail compared to her being functionally flawless, the plot bending over to make her look good, and everyone either adoring her, being obsessed with her, or learning the error of their ways if they aren’t.

>>212014008
It's pathetic, notice I've been asking for a memorable Rey moment already two hours ago, OP keeps ignoring my request because he (she? xir?) can't come up with one.

Easiest way to highlight what a dogshit character she is and shut down this gaslighting attempt.

>>212006607 (OP)
Rianfags are delusional as well as being rabid homosexuals


The only 1v1 he ever won in the OT was at the very end. He either lost or got completely btfo every other time.

>>212006607 (OP)
grandfather was the literal force
father was the strongest force user in millenia
mother was a brilliant politician
thats just the genetic makeup right there
add to it that he learns to fly on his own
is autistic, so has hyper focus
has the force on his side and that was what he used to make the bomb go in the hole
he believed

>>212013970
>Which he has inside of him because of his father.
That wasn't in the movie. Why do you think its invalid to point out that Luke had only learned about the force a day before? This us what chuddies attack Rey for all the time.

>>212006607 (OP)
Lucas won, Disney lost, RLM lost, you lost.

>white knight spends quarter of an hour trying to think up a response to Rey getting shit on, gives up and then goes back to quote mining the first post he sees
Pathetic.

>>212014510
>grandfather was the literal force
That wasn't in the movie
>father was the strongest force user in millenia
That wasn't in the movie, plus chuds have informed me that Darth Vader wasn't particularly powerful in this very thread
>mother was a brilliant politician
That wasn't in the movie
>is autistic, so has hyper focus
That wasn't in the movie
>he learns to fly on his own
like a Mary Sue
>has the force on his side
the force that he didn't even know existed one day before
>that was what he used to make the bomb go in the hole
like a Mary Sue

>>212014533
>Lucas won, Disney lost

>>212006607 (OP)

>had to saved from being shot out of the sky by Vader by Han Solo
>ignored Yoda's counsel and walked straight into a trap laid by Vader
>completely bungled his first duel with Vader, resulting in the loss of his hand
>gave in to his rage and nearly killed Vader and was only stopped by the sight of his prosthetic arm, realizing he was literally becoming his father
>Mary Sue

>>212007217
>>everyone immediately tells him he's so talented and brave, something that keeps happening in every single movie
That's on fucking purpose you goddamn retard. Everyone sucks Harry's dick because he's supposed to be special, and he just wants to be a normal fucking kid. Everyone constantly telling him how cool and special he is is a source of constant stress because he feels like he has to live up to that standard

>>212014623
>make more money than the Prequels
>Disney is still in the hole for several billion after the Star Wars purchase, has had its reputation suffer immensely, got stripped of its tax exempt status, and was recently caught lying to its own shareholders about the company's net profits

>>212014623
>World Economy is twice times as big in 2019 compared to 2005 but TROS did the same amount of money as ROTS
Pathetic.

Your understanding of econ is pretty pathetic too, with this argument Capeshit slop is better than 2001 Space Odyssey or the Godfather because it makes more money.

>>212014690
>Everyone sucks Harry's dick because he's supposed to be special, and he just wants to be a normal fucking kid. Everyone constantly telling him how cool and special he is is a source of constant stress because he feels like he has to live up to that standard

It's also a pretty big source of conflict, he gets bullied by Malfoy and his buddies in part because of their jealousy. Even Snape's hostility to him seems to be at least partially driven by his fame.

>>212006639
The difference between Rey and Luke is that Rey earned her skills. Luke is a manchild who spent his whole life drinking blue milk and playing with toys while Rey was fighting and learning to survive.

Quick question for everyone. Which characters would you say overshadow Luke vs which characters overshadow Rey? I honestly can't think of a single character that overshadows Rey.
And btw, Rey vs Luke isn't even the only reason the new starwars sucks there's also things like villains. Granted, Vader is a really tough villain to compete against, but the villains in the Disney series are actually worse than the prequels.

>>212015079
The reason rey vs luke is even a thing is because deflection is quite literally the only semi viable defence for an ST fan, especially when rey comes up.

>>212015079
None of the characters are memorable.
Just go play Battlefront II.
Click the collection tab.
Take a look at the heroes and their available quotes.

None of the ST heroes or villiains are memorable. They have no personality. Snoke is just... there.
Kylo Ren is some emo kid with anger issues. He has the most personality but it sucks.
Phasma? Again blank slate.

Finn? Comic relief with no purpose.
Poe Dameron? Literally some Wedge Antilles clone.
Rey? Blank slate.
Maz Kanata? Weird orange cantina owner.
Hux? Some screaming retard.

It's really amazing how bland they all are.
They have no goals, no agency, no definable features, no personality.

>>212010078
no /k/ has long held the title of worst board and it's not even close.

>>212015079
>I honestly can't think of a single character that overshadows Rey.

All of them. The fucking Gonk droid is more beloved than Rey.

>>212015293
>Hux? Some screaming retard.

I love how Disney shills try to present Hux's speech in The Force Awakens as intimidating. It's not Hitler at the Nuremberg Rallies, it's a petulant child screaming into a microphone.

>>212015417

t.

>>212006607 (OP)
He had magic abilities. He wasn’t a good fighter until he trained with a master. Then he lost to a cripple.

>>212010214
>Lose another fight against Darth Vader

huh

The weirdest part about the OT is that Lukes aunt and uncle, who raised him from babby, force him to call them aunt and uncle rather than mom and dad.

>>212014928

>>212015518
>I love how Disney shills try to present Hux's speech in The Force Awakens as intimidating. It's not Hitler at the Nuremberg Rallies, it's a petulant child screaming into a microphone.
Hux was very pathetic. It's truly impressive they didn't manage to create a single good character not even by accident.

Compare Hux with Tarkin (both characters in similar positions and with little screentime).

With what little we see of Tarkin we learn that:
- He is very professional and fond of regulations and order. (Which makes him competent thus scary).
- He enjoys his authority and being in command. (Which shows he's ambitious)
- He is not afraid of Vader and even orders him around when on the DS. (Which shows he's fearless and also how much authority he has)
- He is a career naval officer. (Which hints at his backstory and also makes him look competent aka scary)
- He is ruthless and devoted to the Empire.

With what little we see of Hux we learn that:
- He likes to scream at subordinates and people in general (not the trait of a competent person)
- He fucks up a lot and gets mad when he does. (not the trait of a competent person)
- He falls for Yo Mama jokes (not the trait of a competent person)
- He is afraid of Kylo Ren and basically cowardly towards his superiors (makes him less scary)
- He seems devoted to the First Order (a desirable trait in an officer)

So one character comes off as intelligent, competent, interesting and with clear motivations and the other comes off as a joke.

>>212015832
And then Luke doesn't care whatsoever about the death of the people who raised him.
What a psycho.

>>212015162
There are no fans of Disney Star Wars. Just shills.

Disney actually thought there’d be a huge surge in appreciation of the sequels ten years later because that happened with the prequels.

>>212016393
That pic doesn't mention the world economy being larger at any point. In 1999 most Chinese people were still dirt poor and riding bikes, hardly had money to go to the movies, just to name an example country.

Thanks for proving my point midwit.

>>212006607 (OP)
We wouldn't even have this discussion if Rey wasn't so badly written.

I don't care if luke is a mary sue and I don't care if rey is a mary sue because these are children scifi fantasy movies

>>212015832
Bruh they knew who his dad was

>>212016447
He does care though. He rushes home to save them after finding the slaughtered jawas, against obiwan’s advice. Then he’s in shock, which obiwan soft encourages later on the falcon, instead of telling him to open up and blubber about it.

>>212016436

This seems to be a systemic problem in modern filmmaking. Take the original 1970s Roots vs the remake for instance. In the original, the overseer is absolutely terrifying because he's

>calm
>seemingly disinterested in the act of brutality he's overseeing (indicating that this is nothing special for him)
>only raises his voice to make sure the other slaves can hear him
>doesn't even lay a hand on Kunta Kinte, but has another slave do it, demonstrating the sheer degree of power he's able to exert over them (he can break you without personally ever laying a hand on you)

Now compare that to the remake

>screams like a lunatic
>visibly loses his temper
>wields the lash himself and flails about like a retard

They turned what was one of Vic Morrow's most terrifying performances into a caricature.

>>212013901
>didn't even understand what I was mocking him for
figures

>>212009251
>it's also why they hate Jedi and love Andor
>it's not due to writing
It is in fact exclusively because of the writing.
Name one Disney show outside of Andor that was well written. One season even that was consistently good.
There simply isn't one.

>Luke and Anakin with no training
Heightened reflexes and perception
>Rey with no training
Effortless skill in mind tricks, force pulls, and lightsaber combat

>>212006607 (OP)
that ignores the rest of the movie where he sucked and was a weenie. plus ESB is basically just an entire movie of him getting his ass kicked because of how much he sucks. he even loses the final battle against Vader and Palpatine because he refuses to kill Vader, if Vader hadn't intervened he would have died.

meanwhile Rey would have killed the wompa with no problem, Yoda would have said she didn't need training, she would have kicked Vader's ass on Bespin, she would have karate kicked Vader into the generator and beat Palpatine singlehandedly.

>>212009251
>>212016983
there is no reason to think anyone has an honest opinion of andor, as literally no one is watching it.

>>212017379
>she would have karate kicked Vader into the generator and beat Palpatine singlehandedly.
and then anakin's force ghost would've come back and praised her for being a wonderful daughter

>>212007100
he's good at quidditch and dueling but he's pretty crap at everything else, plus the fact that he wasn't born into wizarding society means he's largely ignorant of the world around him which also tends to hamper him. the only reason he gets to beat Voldemort in the end is because he self-sacrificed.

>>212015065
She spent her life learning to fly and use the force and fighting sith lords?

This is true, star Wars and all capeshit have terrible writing. I don't care to much about "mary sue's but if the movie is shit the movie is shit. Good movies can have mary sues but not star shit

>lets make a female luke skywalker
>and she's better than everyone
>and old luke has to drink the disgusting blue milk of a walrus' tits

>>212017725
OP, you're not fooling anyone. You're a loser and an incel and that's all you'll ever be

>>212008275
We get it anon, you're a faggot

>>212017417
The studios have realised that nobody is watching all this nu shit, so you can spot the tactics on places like reddit and twitter to trick people to watch it
>Normally I don't watch this woke shit like discovery, but Brave New Worlds is actually decent guys
>As a right winger, I didn't like the other star wars series but Andor is really good guys, you should watch it!

Rey is literally a Palpatine
Disney retconned star wars and made the bad guys win

>>212017969
>and then the shareholders believe said shilling is genuine and line continues going up

pretty sure hollywood collapsing is going to be worse than the housing crisis.

>is better than everyone else immediately
>is liked by the old cast the moment they meet her
>is canonically attractive to men to the point where she can seduce the dark side out of Kylo Ren
>wins easily just by existing
She checks all of the Mary Sue boxes

>>212017417
>there is no reason to think anyone has an honest opinion of andor, as literally no one is watching it.
That is one of the takes of all time.
I'm just happy that there is one good star wars show out there now. Even if star wars is going to be shit forever now, at least there a little bit of content out there that's worth rewatching.

>>212006607 (OP)
Mary Sue doesn't mean overpowered retardo. It means the believability of both plot and character dynamics gets warped to an unreasonable extent just to prop up the character. This clearly isn't the case with Luke who doesn't get much trust from Han, is actively disrespected by Leia and is only valued by Ben because of an established relationship with his father. Rey, in comparison, is somehow instantly seen as close and loveable by every positive character she comes across, and the main villain instantly desires to capture her.

>>212017969
I don't know man, when I recommend Andor I never even consider that someone would actually pay to watch it.
Does anyone here even have Disney+ and if so, why in the fuck?
Piracy has gotten crazy good.

>>212018424
See:
>>212008988
your cope won't work, chud.

>>212006607 (OP)
compare these 2 scenes, you are just wrong, JJ was terrible at creating a genuinely "strong woman", if you people were pressuring him to do so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0GZ3qSV9s0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHl6Jsgq600

also compare the general feel of the movies, in the 1970s was steeped in comfy christian morality, now everything is just neurotic and petty

>>212018417
okay shill

>>212018773
the disney star wars brand is poisoned, shill

>>212006607 (OP)
Not a Mary sue, gets saved multiple times through the movies and gets his ass handed to him by multiple things (Sand people, Wampa, Vader, Palp) he does actually train but He does have good plot armor but that comes with being the main character of an action movie. If anyone is a Mary sue it be Han but fuck your buzz word Disney wars is gay as fuck

>>212019215
a "buzz word" is a term with no defined meaning designed to elicit emotional response.

mary sue has a very comprehensively defined meaning with etymological source.

>>212019316

>>212014623
https://archive.4plebs.org/_/search/filename/sequels.jpg/

>>212016393
https://archive.4plebs.org/_/search/filename/sequels3.png%20/

>>212019504
>>212019556
Damn, the Sequel boosters really are failures now huh

>>212019411
>use term wrong
>get corrected
>lol i don't care

you clearly do though.

>>212019556
Posting the same pic 3 times?? that is INSANE!

>>212019981
the joke is its clearly just the same person posting it.

>>212020167
No, the joke is the person posting it

Luke took tons of losses, what are you on?

Only nerds like Luke.

This deranged Reylo schizo has been at this for seven years now and you still all give xer (You)s?

>>212008254
Women see all women as a collective embodiment of themselves as an individual woman.

It's why women instinctively cover another naked woman.
It's why women believe their Legos are they themselves.
It's why the most lily-white of tradwives will defend slutty women.
It's why women get upset over "unrealistic body images" or manic pixie dream girls because they see it as implicit criticism.
It's why women surveyed overwhelmingly have positive views of women as a whole while men do not.

Hence, (most) women have absolutely no problem with Mary Sues. It's the same situation as no one who watches isekai has a problem with their Mary Sue protagonists. It's what they came for.

>>212019210
>>212019166
One day even you retards will realize that Andor is the best star wars we had since he OT.
But since Disney wont learn anything from Andor either way and star wars will be shit forever now, I'm willing to sit this one out and let history prove me right.

>>212016393
Doesn't take economic growth in developing countries into account, but it's a mute points anyways since commerical success is a weak indicator for the movie actually being good.
The sequels are dogshit, while the prequels are at least funny in their retardation.

>>212025339
No, no one is ever going to give Disney Star Wars a chance, ever again. Disney doesn’t know how to build goodwill or simply doesn’t care anymore. The brand is poisoned.

>>212025110
>tranny janny is too fucking lazy to do his job so just hecking close your eyerinos
Fuck off

>>212006675
WELL, ANSWER THIS POST, FAGGOT.
>>212007215

Posts like this >>212006675 not resulting in an instant permaban are why nobody shed a tear for all the doxxed tranny jannies during the hack

>>212026761
Call me when someone murders swaglord.

>>212006607 (OP)
>trannies still can't get over Disney Wars being a failure
Feels good to be a chud. I celebrate whenever your projects get canceled, Rey movie was the most recent one I believe kek.

>>212026954
Why do you identify as a word with no meaning?

>>212027957
chud
noun \ ˈchəd \ (slang, derogatory)

Plural: chuds

1. A person regarded as physically unattractive, socially inept, or generally unpleasant, especially in online communities.
2. A reactionary or politically regressive individual, often associated with far-right ideologies; used pejoratively.
3. A crude, obnoxious, or belligerent person, particularly one expressing bigoted or ignorant opinions online.

Etymology: Derived from the 1984 horror film C.H.U.D. (“Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers”); adopted in internet culture as an insult.

Example sentences:

“The comment section is full of chuds ranting about globalism.”

“Only a chud would defend that take unironically.”

Synonyms: incel, neckbeard, bigot,

>>212027957
Chud is a compound word made up of words chad and stud.

>>212006607 (OP)
Give with this cope, troll.
Nobody likes theshit YOU make, and that won't change

>>212029105
You're a grown man who lives with his mom.

>>212006607 (OP)

>>212028233
Lmao the let can't meme

Like any other lefteist buzzword, it just means "normal people who reject my far left religion", and that's literally everyone
The opposite of woke is normality

>>212006607 (OP)
Nah they set it up early he was a racer and hunted right away. He took some hits. Owen basically trained him into a person and he learned to do all his machine tinkering. The only way he ended winning in the new hope was by obi becoming immortal in the force

>>212029105
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.H.U.D.
It's a very old word

>>212029164
>stock leftist projection
Prove it

>>212007215
>a female Luke would've been fine.
no it wouldn't have. women should never be the protagonists or heroes in a story, ever. if your sons consume this leftist garbage they will turn into HOMOSEXUALS

>>212029190

>>212029281
>humanoid monsters that live in the sewers of New York
Sounds antisemitic.

>>212006888
Which isn't the case in Luke's story. He's constantly getting shit on and put in his place in Episode 4 and 5.

>>212029164
You're a grown man who wears dresses and makeup.

>>212015669
Yeh I agree. Worst board.

Say wrongthink? Gore posted and banned.

>>212029359
Notice how all three points I have on Rey were irrespective of her sex. If this is your only "rebuttal" then you truly have nothing to say.

The issue with Rey is that she would have immediately fallen to the darkside.

>>212029396
>I say stupid thing ---> people call me stupid --> I won!
kek
the left can't meme

>>212029396
if a commie says "chud" and no one is around to hear it, will he still feel a rush of moral superiority?

>>212033008
only emptiness

00:43 hours UTC
OP still hasn't been able to post a memorable Rey moment.

>>212033654
It's extra funny because one immediately came to mind in a bad way. But I'm going to wait for OP to attempt to name one first.

Mary sue used to have a specific meaning in fanfic, it's when someone would write a blatant self-insert with special snowflake qualities into an existing setting. It's only retarded embarrassing americans who think it means any female character in fiction

>>212034405
>It's only retarded embarrassing americans who think it means any female character in fiction
That's just how leftards try to frame it. It's a specific trope that is popular among woketards who make movies these days, lie the girlboss

>>212006607 (OP)
Why is it you think "Chuds" have an evil face when saying all that? I think it speaks more to your need for fucking schizo meds than it does anything else.

>>212034513
No I was here when retarded americans like you were having a meltdown because there was a female character in star wars

>>212006607 (OP)
Mark should totally transition.

>>212007707
badly written men are quickly forgotten or even joked and not taken seriously, badly written women are glorified lol

>>212006607 (OP)
I'm guessing you missed the part where this plot point was criticized to death for decades and never once was it written off as sexist.

>>212006607 (OP)
he's a Gary Stu, slightly different
people aren't really interested in tragedies anymore, they have White Guilt movies for that instead, which are even more emotionally exhausting. so we get iteration 16587498 of the Heroes Journey, where the plucky protagonist overcomes seemingly impossible odds and saves the day.
Some of those guys are going to be Gary Stus, it's almost inevitable.

>>212034521
Why do you think that face is "evil"?

>>212010214
Losing your parents is based, it lets you go be your own person. Also you don't have to write parents! Even better.

He's got the hero blood lineage, so chosen one genes; he's implausibly skilled, quickly becoming a master of a discipline he heard about yesterday and only dabbles in, when he's not fighting an asymmetrical war against a fucking galactic empire and somehow not getting his shit shoved in; did I mention he was a complete novice mere years before he's going 1v1 against perhaps the most infamous Jedi of all time and a guy who has been using the Force since he was a child. A guy who was renowned for his lightsaber combat skills.

Also he can fly speeders real good, but he fell for the trap door which is possibly the biggest self-own ever. I guess he's not a Gary Stu because of that.

>>212006607 (OP)
No retard, a Mary Sue is when she can fucking fix the Millenium Falcon and defeat the villain in the first movie.

>>212029359
i don't care what you say. you fundamentally don't understand what they were trying to do if you think it's okay to turn luke into a female. it's neo maoist feminist garbage

>>212031191
i don't care what you say. you fundamentally don't understand what they were trying to do if you think it's okay to turn luke into a female. it's neo maoist feminist garbage

>>212034594
Iom not american and you are jsut a leftard then, since that shit never happened and it's just your average leftard rhetoric

>>212035437
there's nothing wrong with it on it's own, but it was done for political, anti-male reasons, it was advertised as such, and so it is totally deserving of contempt.

>>212007015
>Gary Stu
>>212007100
>gary stu
There's no such thing as a "gary stu". Don't care if E;R uses it, it's not real. Or, more accurately, a "gary stu" isn't just a "male Mary Sue." At best it's more of a power fantasy character which is significantly different.

A male Mary Sue is still a Mary Sue. That's the term for the phenomenon, which is ultimately a literary criticism of a work moreso than just a trait of a character. The point of labeling a character a Mary Sue is to criticize the work of fiction. A writer writing a Mary Sue sucks the life out of a story by warping all the other elements (characters, setting and plot) around The Sue.

Sherlock Holmes always wins. Hercules Poirot always wins. Columbo always wins. With Poirot you follow along and try to figure it out before he does. With Columbo you watch the an arrogant Hollywood villain gradually get increasingly uncomfortable and frustrated as Columbo diligently zeroes in on the crime. Castle is (usually) about the humor of his goofy, off-the-wall ideas being useful in solving murders (in long-running storylines Castle develops like a more traditional protagonist). These aren't "Gary Stus." They're granted the superpowers they need and the audience understands and expects them to be used in creative/fun/interesting ways because that's what the stories are all about. There's no bait and switch. The settings remain stable and consistent. Supporting characters all have useful roles to fill. Plots have entertaining twists and turns.

>>212035832
This. very different from woke shit characters

>>212007707
Badly written men get shit on even worse than badly written women. At least when a female protagonist is uninteresting some faggot trying to get laid (you) will defend her to the death

>>212029396
>4 times

Seriously, how much tranny janny cock is this retard sucking on discord?

>>212035025
>he's a Gary Stu, slightly different
He's not even a Gary Stu by the most generous definition of Gary Stu.
>we get iteration 16587498 of the Heroes Journey, where the plucky protagonist overcomes seemingly impossible odds and saves the day.
Some of those guys are going to be Gary Stus, it's almost inevitable.
It really doesn't happen. Again, unless you're using Gary Stu to mean something totally fucking different (and not actually bad) than Mary Sue.

A Mary Sue character is one of the WORST THINGS you can have in a Hero's Journey. One of the biggest problem with Mary Sue is the way she ruins a Hero's Journey by fucking up everything good about those stories (the mentor, the helpful allies, the artifact, the shadow, the fall to the abyss and the struggle and growth, the normal world and the special world... etc etc).

A hero having super powers and winning a lot doesn't make them a fucking Gary Stu (or Mary Sue, for that matter).

>>212006607 (OP)
are you really still using this old trick?
we're way past the point of liberal pilpul arguments

>>212035437

>>212035437
My point is that Lucy Skywalker wouldn't be a Mary Sue, at the very least.

>>212036783
I always thought this guy was a dipshit

>>212006607 (OP)
Luke went from being a retarded farm boy to destroying galaxy ruling empire's greatest secret weapon in a single movie. All the mad replies are just coping hard.

>>212026761
>Please ban posts that hurt my feelings
lmfao

Rian Johnson was part of Film Twitter. Film Twitter was an offshoot of weird twitter. Both were offshoots of SomethingAwful. Based on this, Rian is almost certainly the first goon to stumble into a Hollywood director's chair. That he deleted his Twitter history sometime before the release of TLJ was to likely prevent his handle being leaked. No one outside of a very specific demographic could namedrop Gamergate with the familiarity that Rian did during the weeks after TLJ ended Disney Wars, and for that demographic SomethingAwful was their first hangout.

TLJ is the empty sneer of a goon. It's the creative distillation of a website which made apathy, superficial cleverness, casual hatred for nerds/your ingroup (to hide the fact you are a nerd too), radical leftism, and deconstruction popular on the internet.

The film thus basically enjoys a rarefied existence because it is THE thesis statement of the New New Left, a Left defined by its embrace of identity, contempt for the working class, upper class status, champagne socialism, troll's remorse, and bad faith arguments made in a false-apathetic no-caps "i care less so i win" attiude masking murderous rage. It's a worldview saturated in the insecurity and irony which has come to define the products arising from its cultural milieu. If you never try, or better yet, preemptively criticize those who will criticize you (your Snoke theory sucks/space wizard movie for children/muh DEEEEEEEEEK), then you can't be criticized yourself. Not without revealing you aren't part of the cool kid's club, an impetus so strong that the eponymous troons killed FYAD because they knew they never could belong and resented that fact with all the petty resentment only a goon is capable of.

It is the first film which could say "fuck you" to the fans with the precision of someone familiar with the same digital spaces and culture.

Star Wars literally has trash writing. They built a SECOND death star that literally had the same weakness as the first, that's 0/10 writing right there.

>>212039311
explain the salt
also explain his entire filmography before he made this, he sure as shit did not become an avant garde film maker so he could gamble his career making a shitpost of a movie with a multi-billion-dollar IP.
i think its more likely he just hates Star Wars, and he had his orders from KK.

>>212039391
they do this in Contact and that's a 9/10 movie
when a normie asks my favorite movie i say Contact. it's about 70% true.

>>212011611
A rabbi hole

>>212039311
> Left, a Left defined by its embrace of identity, contempt for the working class, upper class status, champagne socialism, troll's remorse, and bad faith arguments made in a false-apathetic no-caps "i care less so i win" attiude masking murderous rage.
The right hasn’t been any better in this regard either.
>You shit talk identity politics but all you’ve ever done is cry over faggots fucking each other’s asses or jews as a substitute for policy
>You complain about champagne socialism, but then prop up phonies who don’t give a shit about your own movement like Trump or Fuentes
>You just hide behind a religion you don’t know shit about to amend for your own version of troll’s remorse (and have such a lower bar for entry that you’ll even accept pedophiles.)
>The majority of the people who proper up your candidate were upper class (Hillary, Elon, Thiel, Koch, etc.)
>You vote for candidates that have even more contempt for workers than you do for niggers
>Your candidates are just as bad as democrats in that they have zero clue about actual policy beyond vague moral posturing
Every accusation is a confession of yours. No wonder a socialist pajeet won New York.

>>212040336
Whataboutism. We aren't discussing the right, faggot. We're discussing TLJ, a profoundly leftist film. Go make a thread for Lord of the Rings or Lady Ballers or whatever if you want to indulge in your seethe session about "the right".

Nothing you say even applies to me, but the fact you got buttflustered enough to respond tells me my post hurt you. Stupid fucking goon. Defend the film on its merits, or shut up, or suckstart a shotgun like your dear leader. I'm not engaging in off-topic discussion of how Zion Don hurt your feefees.

I'll bite OP:
>ANH
Luke loses his family due to his fuck up.
Mentor dies
Is basically the side character
Uses the force at the END of the movie, and is even then helped out by Obiwan
Even his big moment he only survives because of Han

>ESB
Spends the movie training, not even instantly good unlike his father
Gets a mental slap in the Cave
Goes to Cloud City, gets his shit wrecked and loses a hand

>RoTJ
Clearly spent the time skip training
Is only now good with the Force
Doesn't even get involved directly with the final battle, spends it with Vader and Palps
Still only holds even with Vader until the end
Doesn't even beat THE MAIN VILLAIN, it was Vader
Spends the last bit of the movie fleeing the DS2

There's probably more, but Luke isn't a Mary Sue like Rey or other female leads in SW.

>>212006607 (OP)
I thought the point was that he actually couldnt do it with his skills like he confidently said he could, and had to rely on the magical force he was naturally inclined to with minimal training

>>212007657
this is how i felt. nu-wars gets the force wrong. At least luke was literally training to hit/block things without using eyesight before he did the deathstar attack and he was struggling with that. it even feels like he got lucky or had bens help.

>>212026761
ok chud

>>212036783
Behind every jewish man is a henpecked scared little jewish boy who's on mommy's beck and call. You know the jew by reference to bad things with the penis, using words like "dick head" which is "schmuck". Now you know why they are driven from every land on earth.

>>212040916
You’re a retarded faggot who has no idea what they’re talking about. The last Jedi is shit, but I’d hardly call liberal pandering and character assassination indicative of what “leftism” represents. You speak of politics you have zero clue about and wonder why it derailed so fast. If you left it “Last Jedi sucks” we wouldn’t have this problem. But because your idea of “radical leftism” is more focused on men chopping their own dicks off than their failed economic systems, of course I’m gonna assume you are retarded MIGA faggot. You can just call it liberal pandering without sounding like a massive retard who doesn’t know what they’re saying.

>>212043996
And now you know why you will never be a woman or a threat to Zionism.

>>212009881
Oi boipassaed da compressah innit

>>212006607 (OP)
Episode IV
>was inferior to most characters at most jobs and fights
>had to be bailed out at times
>rebel plan: we have to sink one self guiding torpedo into an achilles heel
>uses space magic once, guided by a wizard's ghost, to shoot at a specific time that is possible with a targeting computer, the other guys just failed
>wins because of training + wizard's ghost

Episode V
>loser, can't even see a monster coming or survive the cold
>loser loser, too old to train
>loser loser loser, can't even lift up a starship
>get your hand cut off, loooser

Episode VI
>win versus the equivalent of stormtroopers (not hard) throughout the film
>trick some neanderthal tribals into believing a tin man is a god with a floating chair, could do it with ropes
>beat one elderly space wizard
>get beaten by the other and have to be saved by the former
>all whilst normal people are doing deathdefying feats to fly inside and blow up the space station during a pitched suicidal battle (why the fuck isn't he helping??)

Rey
>instantly learns the force
>instantly beats a sith in lightsaber combat (her only trained weapon is a defensive fighting stick, not a laser sword)
>instantly lifts rocks
>instantly force jumps
>instantly does everything
>instantly fights off royal guards
>instantly knows everything about mechanics and fixing things despite being a scrap metal scavver who apparently used this skill to not get off her desert planet where losers live
>is the clone of palpatine or something
>hero's journey except we skip to being the hero but act like she went on a journey
Who cares anymore, storytelling is dead

>>212009087
Wow. Modern vidya graphics and art direction suck dick.
I hate these white officer uniforms. The whole point of the grey is to make them stand out from the troopers.

>>212006607 (OP)
He would have died in ep4 if Han didn't come back and save him.

>>212019139
I genuinely didn't care about Anakin's origin story sometime after the C3PO part but before the fighter pilot part.
I think I was more offended that a slave owner somehow paid for his slave to own all the parts for a robot and even a speeder or two as pet projects and hobbies outside of, y'know, working as a slave.

He just seemed to have a rich kid origin story
>own toys, robots, literal cars
>all the free time in the world
>all the local kids who own nothing come over just to watch me play with my toys
>ugh I have to work in my dad's shop sometimes
>I take part in death races
>my mother doesn't really care even though she could just stop me at any point
>haha woah flying a plane is like driving a car wheeeeeeee! Blam blam! Take that dumb robots!
When he's growing up he's perpetually angry that people think he should be patient for the ice cream they're buying him.

wtf is spam about my post?

>>212008053
Anakin still lost to Dooku (first time), repeatedly lost his lightsaber, failed to save his mom, lost his waifu, and basically his whole arc is about Sheev playing him like a fiddle.

>>212036783
>george lucas during the original trilogy
>bring me more han solo toys!

>george lucas during the prequel trilogy
>bring me more jar jars! He is the key to all of this!

>george lucas during the noughties
>mmm, little girls and their orange cunts, must rape

>george lucas post disney, post feminism
>all women are queens, please step on me

>>212007588
>If you're over the age of 13 and care at all about Star Wars you're an enormous faggot.
If you go onto a forum about movies, and enter a thread about starwars, and post this, you are an enormous faggot

>>212007707
male characters are shat on all the times, but unlike bad female charcters nobody defends them kicking and screaming, faggot

>>212037815
You haven't seen the movie lol
imagine being too stupid for Star Wars

>>212006639
FPBP, women are inherently detestable and work best in antagonistic or neutral roles.

>>212043535
prequelshit already got the force wrong
it went from Force and corrupted Force to Force is neutral and both ForceGood and ForceBad exist and need to be balanced

gemmy thread