How the fuck did Michael Gorbachev lose the Cold War?

The Ruskies lost the Cold War years before Gorbachev came into power

Is that a real question? Russians have been on the losing end for eternity they just never go away. Like mold underneath a deck

>>212037202 (OP)
unironically reaganomics

>>212037202 (OP)
Kruschev coupes the Soviet government and began a series of revisionist policies and this was exacerbated by Brezhenev giving the go ahead for the Kosygin reforms which birthed the reformist wing of the CCCP which grew under Andropov’s tenure.

Party bureaucrats and the military prioritized computer technology towards missile systems development instead of improving the efficiency of GOSPLAN and this the OGAS was never implemented.

The increasing reliance on the Soviet economy on market forces made them vulnerable to the oil market shift during the 80s which coupled with Gorbachev’s pro-western sentiments allowed separatist movements and organized crime to grow until Yeltsin and his gang of liberals finally overthrew the entire government and dissolved the union.

This is a vast oversimplification but basically the rot started with krushchev (read ‘Kruschev lied’ for more on this) but it wasn’t totally unsalvageable until Gorbachev sent the country on a path of no return.

>>212038431
actually this has been debunked

>>212038431
Wow. I'm not even mad. This is legitimately one of the funniest schizo history takes I've ever seen.
Tankies are called tankies for a reason.

>>212037202 (OP)
Gorbachov advertising pizza hut is one of the best examples of real life actual poetry I always set, it's bananas and allegoric

>>212038500
>>212038531
Literally neither of you possess the knowledge or brain power necessary to even begin to refute anything I have said.

Communism is retarded and doesn't work, every communist country (USSR, China, Vietnam, etc.) had to go to a market system to have a functioning society. China was able to do it successfully because they had a competitive advantage in cheap manufacturing and the West didn't have much qualms about offshoring shit there. The USSR was on borrowed time since the 70s, stagnant economy and was never able to keep up with tech progress due to top-down bureaucracy moving too slowly.

>>212041358
>was on borrowed time when it started privatizing shit
Yeah no shit

Nevermind the DPRK is still going strong as we speak with a full command economy and despite having a population of 15 million people, barely any arable land and near total embargo projects military power globally and independently developed nuclear weapons and produces everything it needs itself for its people.

China also still has massive sectors of its economy under state control and private property doesn’t even legally exist, it’s all just contracts with the government that can be terminated at any time.

>>212041614
>DPRK is still going strong
DPRK is a meme country that's sole purpose is to be a buffer zone between China and USA's South Korea China. Their economy is built on sending their workers to Chinese factories so they can get abused for cheap.
>China also still has massive sectors of its economy under state control
Yeah it's state capitalism with communist window dressing to give it legitimacy.

>>212037202 (OP)
The Soviet Union had a large population, enormous natural resources, but only the economic output of an African nation. The arms race cost too much money, and Chernobyl and the war in Afghanistan finished them off.

John Paul II had a hand in it.

>>212038431
so what should they have done instead? I think I've seen your posts about other things structured exactly like this multiple times before. What would a more pro stalin path have done for them

>>212042451
>>212038431
That anon is just spouting contradictory bullshit.
Daddy Stalin was the one who shut down OGAS (computer organization of the Soviet economy) in the first place.

>>212042451
Literally just retain collective agriculture, continue building productive forces and begin a course of digitization and automation of the planned economy as well as focusing less on military production and more intelligently approaching aid to international revolutions.

The USSR’s problems were all due to internal party struggles and as a result squandering resources and burning bridges. Malenkov should have remained leader after Stalin and the hard liners should have retained control of things. Hoxha was the kind if leader the USSR needed after Stalin.

Many contemporary historians would say that while the USSR ended up collapsing, the tenets of communism actually won out in the end over capitalism.
Because the west was forced to adopt significant and abundant social programs and labour policies that we have to this day in order to stem civil unrest.
Reagan neoliberal 'counter'-revolution set things back in favour of capitalism/corporatism afterwards.

>>212042538
The OGAS was suggested in the 60s lmao
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OGAS

>>212042689
>automation of the planned economy
Or use a market system retard, then you wouldn't need advanced technology for the possibility of a functioning economy

>>212042718
The field of science it pertains to (cybernetics) was banned in Stalin's time and only allowed to be researched after Kruschev's reforms.
Had Stalin allowed it OGAS would have happened in the 50s. The Soviets might even have had an internet by the 70s.

>>212038431
Communism is just another word for tyranny, and tyranny can't compete with a global market economy.

>>212042856
>The Soviets might even have had an internet by the 70s.
Just like the rest of the world

>>212041614
>projects military power globally

>>212042693
>the tenets of communism actually won out in the end over capitalism.
>you see millions of ape niggers are on food stamps in your country because of me and they'll chimp out if you cut them off thereby making my ideas the best
>bet you feel silly now, feel free to admit I was right all along
Retarded communist ideas still existing today is not the flex you think it is

>>212043237
Western media has been having a bitchfit about Korean soldiers in Ukraine for the last year. This is before we get into their ICBM.

>>212037202 (OP)
>Michael Gorbachev

>>212038431
Communism is a failed religion and the only people who take it seriously are resentful fags who blame the free market for being unfair when the reality is they're just losers.

>>212038431
market forces exist regardless of whether a government chooses to acknowledge them

>>212043462
>you see millions of ape niggers are on food stamps in your country because
this is due to our "capitalism" doe and not Communism though

>>212043671
>Joe Steel

Soviet lost becouse they got raped by ww2 so badly. They lost next generation and economically they were fucked. When they got up on their feet economically. Intellectually they were fucked becouse generation that should have taken charge wasn't there anymore.
What made matter worse was guys like Andropov dying and getting replaced with empty suits.

>>212043462
Are unions retarded?
Public libraries and parks?

Because you can't efficiently allocate finite resources without prices. Everything else is secondary to this. Commies have no answer to this immutable truth.

>>212042856
Cybernetics clearly reflects one of the basic features of the bourgeois worldview—its inhumanity, striving to transform workers into an extension of the machine, into a tool of production, and an instrument of war

The OGAS in of itself was not a direct evolution of the idea of cybernetics, it was meant to be supplementary to the needs of the workers rather than a driver of them.

>>212043895
How, retard? Are you just going to straight up contradict what you just said or provide an explanation?

>>212043782
Markets are an artificial thing, they are more complex than property just trading. They are a product of speculation, commodity production and kapital.

You think capitalism is selling your old yugio cards to a collector when it’s more akin to speculating what cards will return the best overtime and buying up as many as possible to control the demand and having people crowd fund that effort.

>>212044179
>Are unions retarded?
Yes.
>Public libraries
Colossal waste in an era where the internet exists
>parks
communists did not invent public parks you fucking lying faggot

>>212038431
>until Gorbachev sent the country on a path of no return

good. the ussr was an evil empire and deserved to crumble.

>>212044271
Anything that happens in a capitalist country in a result of capitalism. Trannies and niggers is all capitalism's doing.

meanwhile the bastions of capitalist liberal democracy that "won" are going super well and totally haven't collapsed at all

>>212044605
>i saw a brown person in a commercial, the west has fallen

Pretty crazy that the bloodiest war the USSR got involved in after WW2, Afghanistan, was still like 60x less bloody for them than Putin's Ukraine adventure.

>>212037202 (OP)
Sold out the entire system (it didn't work) and crashed it all
>>212037228
The systems run on faith
>>212038294
The 90s was a historical aberration. We can say this pretty clearly in hindsight

retarded tankie post thanks

>>212044659
>if you simply self-segregate there isn't a problem. be happy with the nothing you have and destruction of identity. you are an economic unit living in an economic zone, interchangeable and replaceable.

>>212044553
He probably doesn’t realize the USSR was the last predominantly white country on earth where homosexuality was illegal. Or know that the USSR never had no fault divorce and would smear people in the local paper for divorcing because it was considered antisocial behavior. Or even know that antisocial behavior was illegal and being a homeless junky faggot was a one way trip to doing forced labor in construction or a coal mine or logging camp as a form of rehabilitation.

Their entire understanding of leftism in left wing liberals who worship sodomy and rampant consumerism, both of which have always been weaponized as a tool of soft power by the CIA. It’s why the western side of the berlin wall was covered in graffiti because it showed how ‘free’ they were while the eastern side was kept clean.

>>212044423
>the internet exists
The internet is also a communist network. Yes we know it was initially conceptualized as espionage.
The enshittification is because it's gradually becoming more capitalized.

>>212044179
>Are unions retarded?
100%. I started 2 of them and sat on a steering committee for a local in a major city. Top brass literally plays golf and has fancy dinners with the business leaders they pretend to be fighting against. They also pick the most resentful dumb people they can find to act as shop stewards because the false sense of importance they feed them means they'll repeat what they're told without thinking about it.
>Public libraries
They're where homeless people use the bathroom and retarded poor people too dumb to stream rent DVDs. Also, nothing to do with communism.
>parks
Nothing to do with communism but they're quickly becoming shit due to allowing people to set up tent cities and putting drug needle bins 20 feet from playgrounds in the hope junkies will be responsible, lol.

>>212037202 (OP)
“I do not need power. But when I felt the threat of communism, I decided that I had to run. We will prevent it.”
- Boris Yeltsin, member of the Communist Party and Politburo

I went through a wiki binge recently trying to learn more about what exactly this guy's problem was. And what people ever saw in him. Do modern Russian conceptualize him as the assassin of their country/empire and one of history's greatest charlatans? Couldn't get any straightforward answers.

But he seems to be an X factor. If it wasn't for this wrecker and nationalism the USSR probably could have weathered a storm and come out like an at least lesser China. Instead he managed to unleash a cascade and empower a bunch of equally dishonest "nationalist" "communist" leaders to take the bag and run with their own SSRs. All so he could have power in a rundown Russia if not a USSR? Maybe he was a puppet of international finance/jewry. Idk.

>>212044530
The US is next

>>212037202 (OP)
I think haters give them too much shit. They made it like 70 years and survived a war that killed like 1/3 of the populations of countries like Belarus and Estonia. Towards the end it was being ran by a bunch of old fuckheads.

>>212044199
If this were remotely true in the way you imagine it the USSR would have disappeared in a puff of contradictory logic soon after it began. Instead of winning WW2 and becoming a terrorizing global super power.... China too. Vietnam, etc. North Korea and Cuba would currently not exists.

>>212038294
consult a dermatologist

>>212042767
advanced technology is necessary for any country that wants to survive economically and relevance through the 21st century

>>212038431
Tankie cult member detected
You will never be a woman and you deserve death

>>212040777
You people are basically flat earthers.
How does it feel that the Soviet economy was basically built by western capitalists?
Even during Stalin btw

>>212044880
>being a homeless junky faggot
Considering the one thing the USSR had in ample supply was free housing if you were homeless it was literally a choice as part of some retarded rebel lifestyle. Contrast with the West today where everyone wants a home but nobody can afford one.

>>212045242
>inefficiency means you instantly cease to exist
No it means a steady decay of institutions because the incentive structure does not promote productive growth.
>they were le powerful
So was the preceding Russian empire who didn't instantly collapse and won many wars, but I'm guessing you don't glaze them as a paragon of civilisation.

>>212042689
Lmao how do you cultists even exist?
Hoxha basically turned his country into a poverty stricken slave state btw
You will NEVER be a woman.

>>212044970
Just because some unions are elite captured doesn't make the majority of unions bad.
>Public libraries
>They're where homeless people use the bathroom and retarded poor people too dumb to stream rent DVDs. Also, nothing to do with communism.
In functioning societies like China they're valuable third spaces.
>parks
>Nothing to do with communism but they're quickly becoming shit due to allowing people to set up tent cities and putting drug needle bins 20 feet from playgrounds in the hope junkies will be responsible, lol.
Parks are more to do with communism than capitalism, unless they'd be purely for profit and charge a fee. Griffith Park for instance is entirely a socialist/communist endowment.

>>212045474
I'm not a communist by any means but industrial processes are wholly uncoupled from capitalism, and one can argue that "unfettered" capitalism results in worse productivity. Tendency for one large conglomerate to absorb competitors and establish market dominance renders "competition" moot and loses valuable know how

China controls its economy and all its billionaires and is working fine. Its essentially natsoc

>>212045491
LMAO the communist solution to housing is to simply kill them
It was made illegal and homeless people were brought to gulags.

Communists are basically saying we should kill homeless people

>>212045474
>the soviets built their industry through starving a kulakillion innocent ukrainians
>the soviet industry was entirely built by americans
Which is it, glownigger?

>>212038431
The economic calculation problem has yet to be refuted btw

>>212042693
Reagan INCREASED the size of government and the welfare state has grown since then

>>212044368
>Markets are an artificial thing
Nah, they form every single time in stateless societies

NYC about to get a taste of some zoomie communism.

He's already talking about confiscating "vacant" apartments and giving it to migrants for free, getting rid of bail because it's rayciss, and government run grocery stores for immigrants

>>212045621
Read antony sutton
>glownigger
The government promotes socialism, retard
>>212045568
>and one can argue that "unfettered" capitalism results in worse productivity
Why did we have insane levels of economic growth during the free market gilded age

>>212045502
>No it means a steady decay
Literal delusion and anti-history. This isn't even remotely debatable. The USSR went from a broken absolute wreck of a country that was downsized in 1917-122 to an industrialized world superpower that everyone was piss scared of. Like why do you think the cold war even happened? For funsies?

>but I'm guessing you don't glaze them as a paragon of civilisation.
What does it matter if I would "like" to "glaze" it or not? I don't subscribe to some crypto religion masquerading as an ideology that forces me into retarded positions where I need to deny the Czarist Russian Empire was a world power, regardless of how happy or convenient that is for me. It's a simple fact. Though it was a large but well behind the rest of the developed world Empire. Not a leader of the world like the USSR became.

>>212045532
>Just because some unions are elite captured doesn't make the majority of unions bad
You know fuck all about unions, bro.
>In functioning societies like China
Lol!
>Parks are more to do with communism than capitalism
No they don't.

>>212045697
If "we" in this case refers to america, that growth would have happened regardless since america has such a bounty of space and resources to expand into, and a geopolitical position that ensures massive trade.
China proves that the capitalist framework is wholly optional. The state can control corporations and those corporations can still innovate and become competitive.

All that is required is a mastery of industrial processes. America used to be good at this, and it had nothing to do with capitalism. As soon as america moved away from the industrial base and began cannibalizing its economy in the 80s, society started waning. This goes for the entire west.

>>212045810
>industrialized world superpower
Thanks to capitalist investment.
Almost all of this growth was western capitalists investing into the country.
You think the ussrb built up their economy from scratch?
This is not debatable.
Read antony sutton's work on this.

>>212037202 (OP)
Might have had something to do with communism not really working

>>212045841
All the innovation China has seen has come from private enterprises, the state only provided subsidies, similarly to South Korea, Taiwan and many others. What meaningful difference is there between an SOE and a chaebol? Look at Jack Ma, he was ostracized after financial regulators thought he was getting out of line and now they drag him back into government meetings now that they need Chinese AI companies to compete with Americans. China is forced to loosen their grip on the private sector every time the economy encounters issues, central planning is simply too constraining.

>>212046266
Communists seething at this post

>>212037202 (OP)
Communism is death. Democracy is truth

>>212038431
Reagan pulled a lil maneuver, but typical of the left-controlled pedagogy/propaganda in US, we were ~taught it was Ruskies craving for real info as if they suddenly got fed up w/ Chernobyl coverup:
>Weiner, Edward (1999). Urban Transportation Planning in the United States An Historical Overview. Greenwood Publishing Group. p. 112. ISBN 978-0-275-96329-3. Retrieved 7 June 2010. "By September 30, 1981, petroleum prices were to be determined by the free market. This process was accelerated by President Reagan through an Executive Order"

>The 1986 oil price collapse benefited oil-consuming countries such as the United States and Japan, countries in Europe, and developing nations but represented a serious loss in revenue for oil-producing countries in Northern Europe, the Soviet Union, and OPEC

>Gaidar, Yegor (April 2007). "The Soviet Collapse: Grain and Oil" (PDF). American Enterprise Institute. "Oil production in Saudi Arabia increased fourfold, while oil prices collapsed by approximately the same amount in real terms. As a result, the Soviet Union lost approximately $20 billion per year, money without which the country simply could not survive."

>>212037202 (OP)

USSR didn't lose. It just suddenly dissolved. Hovewer the result of this spurred a set of negative processes which eventually led to the decline of US and the West in general.

About dissolution - he lost control. In a way, he was our Trump. The Union could have been saved had the elites actually tried to but they decided not to. Sad. Would have been a cool country had it survived. Probably would eventually drift into Eurasianism like modern Russia. Ukraine would still be the best and richest republic and not the shithole it is today. And no, I'm not talking about the war. It became a shithole long before that.

>inb4 someone disagrees

The question of why the Union dissolved and what processes and decisions happened among the elites (including those who became elites of separate republics) are well researched and there are plenty of documents and interviews of participants in the process.

t. Ruskie

>>212045670
>reformist socdem is a commie
It’s like saying Trump is a natsoc

>>212048141
He admits to being a full on socialist

>>212048058
Perestroika deception

>>212048058
>USSR didn't lose. It just suddenly dissolved
Stockton Rush's submarine didn't fail, he just suddenly dissolved.

>>212048058
How repressive was 1980s Russia? Was it still distopian?

>>212048409

That's exacly one of those negative processes I was talking about. Hubris and wrong perception of the Cold War and it's results. Like Fukuyama with his "End of History" garbage.

USSR didn't die because of the Cold War. It's influence grew until the end and it's ideology kept spreading around the world. Yes, it had economical problems during it's last 15 years, but they were solvable and a lot of countries have them in different periods of their history. And as we see in North Korea, China, Vietnam, etc it's ideology could have been adapted.

USSR died because it's elites lost interest in preserving it. Thats it.

>>212048622

"Repressive" is a relative term. What one people consider totalitarian other don't. For some reason, a lot of people in the West think non-Western people can be equated to Americans with their set of beliefs and values. No, we are not.

Most people didn't particularly care, from what I understand from memories of my parents and what I read. Yes, they admit there were a lot of bullshit but it didn't hinder their lives.

>>212037202 (OP)
USSR was supposed to be by the people, for the people.
Over the decades it existed it became clear to the people that it was all actually for Moscow, but still by the people. Every other area of the massive conglomerate that the USSR had become, only existed to support Moscow.
Chernobyl was merely an explosive fireworks display of just how little of a shit the men in Moscow gave about the ordinary citizen.

>>212046266
Point is that corporations are thoroughly buck broken in China. That they employ market processes refined under liberal capitalism to follow a socialist path is the real issue. Just like with industrial production, China simply learned from the best and used the parts that it needed.

Can you honestly say USA is a better economy than China at this point? Why did USA fall off, and why is China resurgent? What can we learn from this?

>>212048622
It eased significantly during the 70s and 80s. There were people wearing American blue jeans, something that would have been unheard of in the decades prior. That was part of the problem though, once the Politburo started losing their grip on things, it was an immediate downhill slide because people could see the grass legitimately was greener on the other side of the iron curtain.

>>212048781
"Moscow" subsidized all the republics with bottomless public funds tho

>>212042856
Not exactly. Cybernetics also had nothing to do with computerization, although you are somewhat right the OGAS was influenced by cybnetics reactionary ideas but the core concept was something stalin absolutely would have supported (i.e. increase the computerization and it's aid in planning)

https://mltheory.wordpress.com/2022/04/12/cybernetics-in-the-ussr-a-marxist-leninist-perspective/
>>212048268
I can admit to having had sex with your mother, it doesn't make it an indisputable fact.

>>212044984
I think it's occam's razor to be honest. Look I respect the USSR for what it tried to do but the truth is without a lot of consumer goods a lot of people just turned to alcoholism in their free time. Yeltsin was a drunken retard who could lead a bunch of other bored drunken retards

>>212048820

True. Ukraine was the prime example of it. Once there were no subsidies and orders for the industry from the rest of Russia, Ukraine's economy died. I like the history of Nikolaev Shipyards. They were founded more than 200 years ago. Survived Napoleonic wars, multiple wars with Turkey, survived WWI and WWII, but they didn't survive independent Ukraine. Modern Ukraine doesn't need a fleet the size Nikolaev Shipyards can produce and most importantly it can't sustain them or have acces to other industries from Russia in terms of economic cooperation.

The shipyards had been decaying since in 1991 and finally went bankrupt like 5 years ago.

t. Ruskie

>>212045524
Yes, because Albania historically was a prosperous beacon upon humanity before it was sent into horrible poverty by Communism lmao.

That man single handedly destroyed every division between the people of his country and they are still rabidly nationalistic about eachother despite being in reality 2 different ethnicities and having 3 different religions.

He also taught the entire country to read which neighboring Greece still hasn't done btw.

>>212045474
>Soviet economy was basically built by western capitalists
Most schizo post in this thread. Take your meds.

>>212048786
>Point is that corporations are thoroughly buck broken in China. That they employ market processes refined under liberal capitalism to follow a socialist path is the real issue.
Corporations don't need to be buck broken, their interests and those of the state mostly align. Look at Google, Microsoft, Palantir, etc., they're more than willing to help build a surveillance state.
>Can you honestly say USA is a better economy than China at this point? Why did USA fall off, and why is China resurgent? What can we learn from this?
USA moved higher in value chain, e.g. software. Chinese living standards are still fucked, youth unemployment is high and a large amount of the economy is property speculation. There are Chinese people paying coyotes to sneak through the Mexican border, how many Americans are sneaking into China?

>>212037202 (OP)
Let's be honest, in a alternate history if the soviet union never collapsed life in the west would be better than it currently is for the main fact the cold war would still be going.

Western elites would keep making concessions to the poorer and working-class out of fear that if things got bad for them they'd turn to alternate ideologies, red scare would never end and western elites would be like "More concessions for the common man! We can't have civil unrest ahhh!!!"

In reality now there is no alternative ideology, no alternative super power with a different ideology to keep the greed in check. Let the cost of living crisis keep spiraling, oh what's that another riot and our country is burning? The ruling-class don't care because the sheep don't have any power and they can just keep making themselves richer.

>>212050277
Bingo.

>>212049710
China invests back into the country through infrastructure, which ultimately fuels further growth and value.

Western economies are essentially plundering the countries - no new roads, rail or infrastructure is being built, power generation is old and rusting.

The white collar economy simply isn't good enough for society in general. What good did the service economy truly do for society, beyond printing a whole lot of cash?

>>212037202 (OP)
America and the West in general were terrified of revolution and being under communism so they paid their workers a wage that allowed them to be prosperous and that prosperity raised living standards for the average man to the point where communism was no longer an attractive proposition.
Now, with communism largely defeated we are moving towards and openly oligarchical system with state and taxpayer-funded slavery for private business being described as virtuous and anyone objecting is described as a racist/fascist.
Asset management firms are buying up residential property hand over fist which will eventually lead to permanent serfdom for everyone but the asset-owning class who will continue to feed off the rest of humanity like parasites until they find a way to get rid of them entirely and that's a good thing because anything else would be homophobic.

>>212044984
Always, ALWAYS take what's on wikipedia with a grain of salt. It's heavily edited by commie-schitzos.

>>212049099
all those factories that spewed out t34s were American production lines.

>>212045813
>You know fuck all about unions, bro.
Tell me what YOU think unions are and why you think they're bad lol.
And I'll tell you what happens if unions didn't exist.
>nou
nou

>>212050628
>she (he) actually believes this
Yes and Stalin himself came off an American production line too.

>>212050628
Technological progress will get copied by everyone capable of using them.
Same has been true for every system that actually works, dating all the way back to bowmaking, sharpening flint and obsidian and agriculture.

Factories weren't invented by americans.
Russians were paying for a product and got it. The actual economy was built by russians. Just like the Chinese ended up making the largest economy in the world, off of industrial know how learned from Germans et al

>>212038531
Tankies are actually Khrushchev supporters. The term tankie was invented in 1956 when Khrushchev sent tanks into Budapest. So Stalin supporters are actually the most anti-tankie communists.

>>212045474
By this logic the British economy was built by Indians.

>>212037202 (OP)
Never had the makings of a varsity athlete

>/tv/ has Better discussions about history than /his/ ever had.
Damn

>>212045581
>Communists are basically saying we should kill homeless people
As opposed to capitalists that say we should let them freeze/starve to death instead?

>>212048058
>t. Ruskie
Opinion on anything ever disregarded forever.

>>212052296

No one has reflected on USSR collapse more than us.

>>212052257
>immediate and only response to valid criticism is whataboutism
The essence of Communism, ladies and gents.

>>212051476
Except the British economy was powerful before in conquered India, which is how they did it.

>>212051883
Boards are captured and turned to shit.
You can't talk about military hardware on /k/, can't talk about history on /his/, or film on /tv/. Such is life

>>212053499
You can build as many factories as you like in Africa, it still wouldn't replicate what the Soviet Union became in the 40s/50s

>>212053560
You can talk about film here. There are the / film/ threads.
As for /his/, they only talk about the same topics all the time. It's all about genetics or some religion/atheism shit. Even the quality of those discussions fell hard. It's just a second /pol/ at this point.

>>212037202 (OP)
Andropov focused solely on heavy industries and competing in terms of economical outputs instead of advancing towards specialization like the United States did in the 60s and 70s. The USSR unironically was destroyed by their inability or unwillingness to reform, just like we are seeing in the United States today.

Ran out of money. Had to beg the West for money. Got turned down.
https://www.nytimes.com/1991/05/23/world/gorbachev-pleads-for-100-billion-in-aid-from-west.html

>>212052459
>Russian
>capable of reflection
A good joke my friend.

>>212052494
>Immediately deflecting to the flaws of communism when the sacred cow of capitalism is under attack

>>212037202 (OP)
He was an incompetent retard. Andropov was supposed to lead the Soviet Union, but he died early and Gorbachev, who was his protégé, took top spot. But he was obsessed with his legacy and made a series of disastrous decisions.
Read Collapse: The Fall of the Soviet Union

>>212049099
>>212045621
>>212051476
American advisors did actually go to the soviet union and build a bunch of factories in the 20's. They were also designed to be easily convertible to wartime production. I assume that's what he's talking about.

>>212054244
early half communists distrusted (((debt financing))). arabs go to war with Israel and oil price shoots up. the soviet's now start importing western tech. they collapse 20 years later after existing for 50 years without (((loan financing))). Awesome...

>>212055118
I just noticed this happen to soc-dem Venezuela aswell.