How should his turn to the dark side have been written?

>>212181520 (OP)
they should've made him actually likable and cool so his downfall was tragic and not an annoying whiny faggot from the onset. also make him less of a retard, there's no reason anyone wouldn't just kill Sheev right there when Sheev admits he actually has no clue how to save Padme and that maybe they can figure it out

>>212181552
yeah their relationship doesn't make any sense at all

Same way it was in the movies, with just a little more exposition on his part. The pieces are all there, they simply didn't put them together properly to make it apparent why he fell. Its obvious he blames Obi Wan for his mothers death. If he hadn't convinced him to fly away with him as a child he thinks he would have been there for her when the raiders took her. At the same time he also partially blames Padme. She was the glowing angel that also lured him away from his mother off into the stars. She's also the thing that causes him to do so many horrible things, hoping to save her, only for her to show up and call him the badguy. He feels like everyone corrupted him, turned him into an unfeeling thing, constantly restricting him, forcing him to be a tool or weapon to be wielded. He was a powder keg waiting to explode. This is where they failed to properly communicate all that. Failed to show that he was basically a groomed child. Indoctrinated into a religious order. Turned into a child soldier used by politicians and "wise" men. Maybe they thought that would be going too far saying that. Maybe they thought the audience would put it together so they wouldn't have to say it

>starkino
Live a long prosperous life, white chad.

>>212181520 (OP)
I would have had Hayden play Anakin in all 3 movies

>>212181552
>here's no reason anyone wouldn't just kill Sheev right there when Sheev admits he actually has no clue how to save Padme and that maybe they can figure it out
Sheev was all he had after he lost everything so he just accepted his lot until sheev was killing his son and he finally thought "fuck this faggot" and killed his ass.

>>212181520 (OP)
He finds Steve Sailer's Space Blog and starts reading it when he's 14
>Hutts are 3% of the galaxy but make up 45% of sex traffickers

>>212181702
>She's also the thing that causes him to do so many horrible things, hoping to save her, only for her to show up and call him the badguy
Well, you know, he did suddenly ice a bunch of fucking kids out of emo rage.

>>212181822
he didn't lose everything until after he decided to side with sheev and kill all the jedi, which happened after Sheev already told him he didn't know how the fuck to save Padme. any normal person would've just killed Sheev right there and then say he and Windu died in the fight

>>212181520 (OP)
Anakin started to notice.

>>212181991
this

>>212181991
He killed all the raider kids first in his rage over his mother dying. Its no longer a taboo for him once he goes after the jedi kids. To him they were no different than himself, trainer killers

>>212181520 (OP)
For the films they needed to show how his extreme use of the Force was genuinely helping them win the Clone Wars.

They did this in the TV shows but it really had to be shown at least once definitively in the films. Revenge of the Sith could have used one whole pre-credits type story, 25 minutes long with it's own act structure etc, about a battle on some fringe world where Anakin is single handedly responsible for winning when all hope is lost. And it's bittersweet because he goes almost full Dark Side to do it. But he saves so many clones and so many civilians that people just go with it and praise him, while the Jedi start to dislike him more, and he'll lie to Padme about how he did it.

The battle over Coruscant was fine but the fight with Dooku didn't lay the groundwork as well.

>>212181520 (OP)
1. Make him older in Episode I. He never builds C3PO. He never blows up the Droid Control Ship. The podracing part is fine (fits even better if he's a teenager in fact).
He's just a good-natured teenage kid that likes to race and cares about his mom.
2. Episode II, he should have a more brotherly relationship with Obi-Wan, instead of them acting like they hate each other. Still there are some conflicts because Obi is his teacher, but they are barely a few years apart. (So these conflicts make more sense)

3. Episode III, the Jedi Council cockblock Anakin even harder. He has dreams about Padme, and thinks there is a Holocron in the Jedi Archives that could save her, but the Jedi don't grant him access to it. They also don't give him the seat in the council, and PUT HIM ON FUCKING TRIAL FOR EXECUTING DOOKU IN COLD BLOOD. (Why was that handwaved?) In the middle of all this the Tuskens kill his mom, instead of on Episode II, further destabilizing his psyche.

Enter Palps who stands up for Anakin on his trial (Dooku was too dangerous to be kept alive!), acts like a father figure (he confides the Tusken thing to him not Padme) and eventually comes up with the promise to save Padme himself.

Anakin never chokes Padme, she just runs away with Obi because the Republic is collapsing, and dies in childbirth. Anakin blames Obi-Wan for turning Padme against him, and for her death, and they fight AFTER Padme is dead.
Obi never tells Anakin Padme has twins. Tells him he had a stillborn child.

There. Fixed.
Just a few tweaks were needed.

>>212181520 (OP)
>Explicitly blame the Jedi and Obi-Wan for not saving his mom instead of making it implied
>Have Anakin question how Mace Windu is going to keep the peace after him killing the defacto head of the Republic, have him admit that they will have to use their army to take over
>Show that Sheev actually does have some force life powers by healing an injury or something
>Blame Padme dying on Obi-Wan taking her before Sheev could heal her
>Convince Anakin to kill younglings by essentially implying he's saving them from the same twisted fate. Might actually be optional if you fix everything else
A lot of it is just making some of the reasons for his fall more explicit, because the one reason that's fleshed out is retarded. The rest is fixing the shit that doesn't make sense and has literally no reason to be the way it is

>>212182298
>>212182300
>>212182301
wtf

>>212182320
?

>>212181520 (OP)
>How should his turn to the dark side have been written?
It shouldn't have.
No one needed the prequels, they were shit and unnecessary.

>>212181520 (OP)
He becomes The thing

>>212182320
Seems like bots, 3 long form replies in such a short time. Something ain't right.

>>212182445
A lot of people have their own opinion on how it should have gone and it's not a simple problem

>>212182300
Could have been neat if he was a teenage fighter ace on Tatooine, working for the Hutts via Watto to stop pirates from preying on local cargo. He can be introduced when he save the Queen's spaceship from pirates who attack them just outside of Tatooine, maybe that's why they need to land, to do some repairs. This gives Padme a good reason to like him.

But he's too much of a goody-two-shoes for them to ask him to become a pirate who preys on other peoples cargo, so he's kind of screwed if he stays. Then when he hears that Naboo is in trouble after Padme and the Jedi land there, he decides he's going to help them, and Padme has a crush on him so she thinks this is a great idea. Qui-Gon could actually resist it for a while but he comes around.

And it could show that Anakin was in some kind of denial about being a slave. Like he doesn't quite realize fully that if he leaves like this, he won't be able to come back, and his mother is not going to be treated as well without her son providing that kind of service to the Hutts. This shifts some of the blame for abandoning her onto him, but it also allows us to change the timeline so he only leaves her for a couple or three years. When he does get back he's too late, but he really thought she'd be okay. It's fine for him to be very naive like this, even as he's crazy good at other things, it's more parallels with Luke for one thing.

>>212182445
>many words make grug confused. must be AI.
Are zoomer attention spans really this bad?

>>212181520 (OP)
I think they should have changed how he was disfigured. The script for episode one goes out of its way to explain slaves have bombs implanted in them. Lucas should have just used that and not went with the lava planet idea he let slip in the early 80s

>>212182445
"If I were a bot, I’d probably have a better response time—but thanks for the compliment!"

>>212181552
>make him more like my marvel quip cool guys
Fucking idiot
>>212181809
There's a reason to have kid anakin in 1. And the whiplash between 1 & 2 in presentation of anakin is intentional

>>212182493
Neat.
I like your take as well.

with better dialogue would be a good start

>>212182536
i said he should be cool and likable like Aragorn or something not that he should quip. besides him and obi-wan already are quipsters doing an improv comedy routine on the ship in ROTS.

>>212182502
In a dead thread posted in the same time? You're definitely bots or shills.

>>212182622
31 replies in one hour since the OP is not a dead thread retard-kun.

>>212182622
or you are paranoid and have a self important opinion of your own abilities to detect deception... it might be that.

>>212181520 (OP)
unironicall like colonel kurtz in apocalypse now

>well intentioned jedi knight
>best of his class, rolemodel
>civil war against badass mandalorians in some outer rim jungle shithole
>loses a bunch of his friends has ptsd
>gets shat upon by corrupt coruscant politicians who don't know what the fuck they're talking about
>ends up fighting dirty for a greater cause
>discovers an old sith temple deep in the jungle with some weirdo living there
>is converted

>>212182642
>>212182654
>seething that hard
Definitely jeet shills.

>>212182622
Posting long posts in a dead thread? Almost like 3 people saw a thread about intricate fan theories earlier when it was bumped and all took a while to write their posts. Nope, must be a military grade cutting edge AI posting about Star Wars.

>>212182667
That's basically Revan's backstory.
I think they should have done that for the villiain of the ST instead of Emo Kid Kylo.

>>212182695
>at the exact same time
You're very convincing, poopjeesh.

>>212182620
>anakin should be like aragorn
Two entirely fucking different characters?
Its core characterization of VADER that he's a pathetic shell of a man. He's a dog of Tarkin/The Empire.
He is crippled and burned. He's a machine-man hybrid. He's a despicable torturer of fair young maidens. He oversees mass murder and wanton killing of civilians.

That Anakin displays many negative emotions and engages in these types of killings from time to time seems reasonable. Why do you want to whitewash the character? Why does he need to be a *noble* king like aragorn?
How would one even corrupt a paragon of virtue like Aragorn? Through "reluctance"?

Its cowardly piece of shit writing. Shooting it straight and making Anakin complicit in his own demise is brave and interesting. It makes Anakin human. Maybe the most human character.
He's defined by his past, by his connections and failures and fear and desire. That makes anakin far more relateable and exciting on screen than whatever your ideas for him would result in.

You want to wash away all the "irritants" that spoil the "perfect experience". Even though you never actually rewatch your "perfect movies" (see the failures of the sequels, where this ideology was put in action)

>>212182686
If you make an effort post you'd also be mad that the only reply you got is from some retard that thinks you are a bot.

>>212182808
Starslop isn't deep, saar.

Oh well, back to the discussion.
>>212182301
Here,
>>212182298
>>212182300
I like your versions as well. I think you're fixing a lot of the movies. But I just wanted to fix the fall. I think you could fix it with a few pickups, don't even need to restructure the movies.
I like the whole trial thing for Dooku though, I would add that. Makes a lot more sense than the whole seat on the council thing, which iirc serves no purpose.

>>212182798
I said cool and likeable like Aragorn as an example not literally like Aragorn you sperg. and obviously I'm talking about before he turns evil. instead he's an unlikable whiny faggot from episode 2 and so his fall doesn't feel tragic at all

>>212181520 (OP)
Just delete the prequels and let the audience imagine his downfall based on the unmasked scene in Return of the Jedi. It was far more interesting back then to see this ruthless and powerful villain finally revealed to be a vulnerable old man full of regret than to be shown what happened explicitly. It's like what they say about Psycho, that what you don't see is much more powerful imagery. Seeing Luke's backstory in A New Hope is enough to let you imagine how a poor boy from Tatooine who dreamt of something more might stray from the right path.

alternatively vader used to be apple pie kinda guy who recently got kids but after some shit he can't or won't come home anymore and becomes a drifter travelling the outer rim while obi-wan lies about what actually happened to him. potentially obi-wan left him to die somwhere to save his own skin.

>>212182818
Oh I didn't see they were literally 3 posts three seconds apart, I thought they were just next to eachother. That is weird but I know in the case of my post it's a coincidence.

>>212181520 (OP)
I think Ahsoka and Rex give Anakin more depth, but I can't suspend my disbelief and pretend they exist in the same universe as Revenge of the Sith.
Maybe a faithful remake reconcile all the contradictions between the film and Clone Wars one day.

>>212182536
>There's a reason to have kid anakin in 1
I’m sure
But it’s not a good enough reason
It should have just been Hayden

>>212183029
>Maybe a faithful remake reconcile all the contradictions between the film and Clone Wars one day.
Has such a thing ever taken place?

>>212181520 (OP)
He was groomed as child by a pedophilic Jewess, had his mother killed by Arabs, and the cult he was forced into call him a bitch deserving of no respect.

Honestly, pretty much anybody would have gone full Nazi given that setup. He didn't "get seduced by the dark side" so much as he made a logical decision.

>>212182998
Meant to quote
>>212182763

>>212181520 (OP)
There are things you don't show or tell at all, and Anakin's downfall is one of them. This is also true for most of the "character origin stories" IMO.

>>212182798
>Why do you want to whitewash the character?
Because it's not a compelling story to have him go from "Huh, the dark side can save my wife?" to murdering children in the span of literally five minutes of screen time. We're not watching the biopic of a psychopath, we're watching a fictional story. The rules are different. There has to be some reason why we give a shit about this character which makes us feel something when he falls to the dark side. It's not "human" or "relatable" to execute all your allies starting with the 8 year olds for an empty promise of a life-saving power that nobody has ever seen with their own eyes. The movie makes him look like a fucking retard instead of a tragic figure.

>>212183373
This. It will always feel forced because he HAS to become evil.

>>212183418
It didnt happen the way you describe it. You haven't actually watched the movie, more like some deranged hallucination you've cooked up from half remembered clips from youtube.

I urge you to rewatch the thing and actually engage with the material with all senses available to you. Maybe then you'd be able to actually have a conversation regarding the material.

>>212183548
imo in the original movies he was never really that evil. he choked a guy, that's about it. I guess he destroyed that planet, too and there was a tiny bit of torture but that's about it. he did less shit than barack obama.

He’s in time to save his mother and thus learns anger and rage are effective tools.

>>212181702
more human than most

>>212181520 (OP)
The baseline of the story wasn't bad for his downfall, it was just poorly executed by george and should've culminated with the jedi order indirectly killing padme and anakin giving in on his rage.

>>212183674
He is right, he murdered innocent kids and all his friends within a day for no tangible reason, you are just a schizo.

>>212181520 (OP)
Que Ai Padme poster. Oh wait that's me.

>>212181520 (OP)
Just get rid of the scene where he kills younglings

>>212184747
it's worse than that because after he kills Windu, Palpatine just admits to him flat out he doesn't actually know how to save Padme and just vaguely promises they can figure something out after Anakin goes and murders a bunch of children and overthrows the Republic and Anakin just goes along with it without questions. your average blue collar worker would throw more of a fit over having to work without getting paid than Anakin would over planning a coup.

>>212183919
he didn't destroy the planet that was tarkin, vader just kind of stood by as his goon

>>212181520 (OP)
There should have been flashbacks to his mother's funereal every 5 minutes and flashbacks of him being held back by the Jedi and he should have looked at the camera and explained fully why he wanted power over life and death and you should also hear him narrating his own thoughts. When Mace Windows says "not the Jedi way" there should be a flashback to Anakin killing Dooku and he should then explain to the audience what this means. George is a hack for not including all this.

>>212185224
>he should have looked at the camera and explained fully why he wanted power over life and death
he more or less does this in the movie already

>>212181520 (OP)
It didn't need to be written at all.
At the very least they could have picked a decent less faggy actor, don't make him lame and a brat, and do it before the last minute

>>212184747
He already erased an entire village + dozens of innocent factory workers as well as started the clone wars and fought in the opening battles as a teenager.

By his twenties he was a seasoned war leader, had probably killed hundreds of individuals and droids, which, together witb his exploits in 1, probably gives him a kill count in the low thousands.

This guy, already unstable, has an unhealthy fixation on his mother and is pulled between Padme, the republic/sheev and the Jedi and snaps.

Its still a war scenario. He's able to cope with erasing the order due to being in "war mode".
Its honestly totally believable. The only reason one can think like you, is if one deletes the entirety of AOTC from memory.

>>212182300
Another nice aspect to this trial idea is that it makes the scene where he chops off Windu's hand much better.

You wanted to put me on trial for murdering Dooku in cold blood? But now you are willing to kill Palpatine without trial? You are a hypocrite, fuck that.

>>212182150
i find that this guy's artstyle always enhance simple/generic jokes/punchlines. just looking at this makes me laugh, nevermind the content. that's a sign of a good cartoonist or atleast one that has found a good style/niche.

You don't need to change the major story structure. Just tell it better. You could cut out the normie action-slop like pod-racing, multiple duels with Dooku and other such sequences and make a more serious dramatic trilogy. Maybe even start with Anakin as an adult or cut major parts of his childhood to the important bits. There was just too much slop to tell a good story.

>>212185953
You’re calling everything slop because youtube started demonetizing for profanity, and your efriends needed a stand-in word for shit

>>212185761
Yeah, but you do have to justify why Windu thinks it's okay for him to do it and not Anakin. I'm not saying it's hard to justify, just that you need at least a hint that Windu has his own reasoning.

>>212185224
This is an exaggeration. Yes those threads are there, but they are a little to subtle. All you need is a bit of dialog, or exposition through editing, or something, that subtly hints at them a bit more.
The other side of it is the one reason we are explicitly given needs to be made less retarded. Anakin turns because of Padme, then Sheev can't even save her and he has no reaction. Multiple people have pointed out it makes no sense and doesn't even have to happen that way. Palpy DOES have freaky force powers and he didn't even get a chance to use them on Padme if he wanted to.

>>212186449
They could have gone with something like Palpatine predicting that Padme will die if Anakin doesn't leave the Jedi. And then he frames it as - because Anakin tries to stick with the Jedi for too long Padme has died.

>>212185224
You act like George is a master of subtlety and didn't absolutely butcher most of these reasons for Anakin turning.
The problem is that Anakin goes from looking mildly annoyed to the Jedi straight to "the Jedi are evil" right after killing younglings, and straight from quipping with Obi-Wan to "I HATE YOU" the next time he sees him, all in the same movie.
Either ease into it with hints of how Anakin truly feels, expand on it a little bit with more than a single throwaway line, or keep all of these things entirely as subtext.
Anakin's desire to have power over life is done fine though, at least in terms of subtlety. Sheev saying "actually I don't know how to save Padme lmao whoops" can be taken out.

>>212186267
Windu has always been a huge dogmatic and raging hypocrite, he represents everything that's wrong with the Jedi at that time (rules for thee but not for me) and the Prequels already try to make this point.

>>212187114
Anakin choosing Palpatine was both a thing of circumstance and later a conscious choice. When he does cause Windu he's distraught and essentially picks Palpatine due to being the only good option left.

Later on, we see him attempting to dress up this decision by way of cope: "I will *not* betray the Republic."

All in all, it's a very human depiction of a guy caught between a rock and a hard place. He's just trying to survive, to salvage and to win out.

>>212187512
*cause Windu to die

>>212181552
> there's no reason anyone wouldn't just kill Sheev right there when Sheev admits he actually has no clue how to save Padme and that maybe they can figure it out

Did you miss the part where Sidious is still vastly more powerful than him, you fucking cretin?

>>212184705
>he jedi order indirectly killing padme and anakin giving in on his rage.

Wow good work writing something even more retarded than the PT.

>>212185224
Unironically. Anakin having a meltdown over his mother in ep. 2 and 3, and promising to save Padme no matter what was too subtle for the smoothbrains on RLM and /tv/.

>>212187114
Anakin slaughtering the sand nig- people women and children didn't make it obvious that Anakin is mentally and emotionally unstable? Exploding at Mace didn't make it obvious he was pissed at the Jedi?

>>212187114
its been a while since i watched them but did he even have a reason to hate Obi Wan other than him being a Jedi? like they were still supposed to be presumably friends and he suddenly hates Padme for having him with her too? even if he hated the Jedi surely there would be some level of him being "one of the good ones" or something right? one of the worst things about the prequels in general is that Obi Wan and Anakin never seem like "good friends" except maybe the opening fight in RoTS

>>212187114
watch the fucking films again before you display your low iq, faggot hater

>>212181520 (OP)
>have the Clone Wars last a lot longer and a be a lot bloodier so his downfall is the result of a far more pronounced disillusionment with Jedi values and democracy as a whole, ultranationalist senitments, severe untreated PTSD, and an unhealthy fixation on victory
>reintroduce Imperial officers from the original trilogy like Piett, Ozzel, and Needa and have them undergo a similar transformation from young idealists to embittered traumatized men with an increasingly autocratic worldview to show that Anakin's fall from grace didn't occur in a vacuum
>get rid of Mas Ammeda and replace him with Tarkin as Palpatine's right-hand man who was in on his scheming all along (hence why he outranks Vader on the food chain)
>double down on the Chosen One shit and show that Anakin has difficulty controlling his own powers in an extreme emotional state (as in the Force will literally act through him, rather than merely him using it), imply that the he and Padme fall in love because Anakin unwittingly developed a Force Bond with her
>have Anakin and Padme's relationship be far more unhealthy in general

>>212187690
Anakin is mentally unstable - sure. But then you have to say he's mentally unstable, but perfectly hid his resentment for the Jedi and Obi-Wan up until after he fell. Not even a hint he blames them for leaving his mom in slavery. (No, a nonsensical dispute about a promotion doesn't count as showing Anakin's dislike for the Jedi.)
A mentally unstable teenager wouldn't be able to stop giving jabs or at least death stares about this, certainly wouldn't be quipping with the man he blames for leaving his mom to die.
And no, Anakin exploding at Mace Windu doesn't help hint at his dislike for the Jedi. The first thing clouding that is Anakin's recent personal beef with Windu and the council for not giving him a promotion.
The second thing clouding it is Anakin says himself the reason he wants to keep Palpy alive is to save Padme. Which by the way, I hate to say it again, but he then turns around and doesn't care that he can't do it the next minute.
You can say what you want about all the other reasons, that they're subtle or well done, but first and foremost make the storyline around the most explicit reason, Padme, less retarded, and it would make everything automatically better.

>>212188083
>akin is mentally unstable - sure. But then you have to say he's mentally unstable, but perfectly hid his resentment for the Jedi and Obi-Wan up until after he fell.
Except he fucking doesn't? He complains to Padme that Obi-Wan is holding him back. He expresses frustration with the Council multiple times in ROTS, even to Obi-Wan himself.

>Not even a hint he blames them for leaving his mom in slavery.
No, he blames himself for not being strong enough to save her, which leads to his lust for power.

>A mentally unstable teenager wouldn't be able to stop giving jabs or at least death stares about this, certainly wouldn't be quipping with the man he blames for leaving his mom to die.
Why would Anakin blame Obi-Wan for this? It wasn't his call.

>And no, Anakin exploding at Mace Windu doesn't help hint at his dislike for the Jedi. The first thing clouding that is Anakin's recent personal beef with Windu and the council for not giving him a promotion.
He has beef with the entire Council, especially after being told to spy on Palpatine.

>The second thing clouding it is Anakin says himself the reason he wants to keep Palpy alive is to save Padme. Which by the way, I hate to say it again, but he then turns around and doesn't care that he can't do it the next minute.
Wrong. Anakin admits to Padme that he wants more than being a regular Jedi. He's power-hungry and Palpatine exploits that. And after he kills Mace, what's he gonna do? Turn on Sidious? He'd get his ass kicked and Padme dies anyway. There was nowhere left for him to go after that. The Jedi wouldn't just forgive him for mudering Mace Windu.

>>212188229
>He complains to Padme that Obi-Wan is holding him back. He expresses frustration with the Council multiple times in ROTS, even to Obi-Wan himself.
>No, he blames himself for not being strong enough to save her, which leads to his lust for power.
>Why would Anakin blame Obi-Wan for this? It wasn't his call.
My mistake, I thought you were going for the theory that Anakin blames the Jedi and the council for leaving his mom in slavery. Plenty of people who say that Anakin's fall is well done go with this because otherwise you run into other problems.
Namely, what is Anakin's basis for calling the Jedi evil and justifying killing younglings? Starting a war that Palpy orchestrated? (Maybe he doesn't know?) Not giving him the rank he wants right away a few days ago? Hiding how to save Padme (he has no evidence anyone is actually hiding this)?

>>212181520 (OP)
he was an cringey angst filled young male
it held up a mirror to nerds
they didn't like what they saw
they have not stopped being angry about it for 25 years
it captured it all so perfectly
these guys who are prone to bouts of violent rage
in the decades since how many angry young males have gone on to slaughter classrooms full of children
the film is flawless
you all don't like being forced to look at yourself in the mirror

>>212188229
>Wrong. Anakin admits to Padme that he wants more than being a regular Jedi. He's power-hungry and Palpatine exploits that. And after he kills Mace, what's he gonna do? Turn on Sidious? He'd get his ass kicked and Padme dies anyway. There was nowhere left for him to go after that. The Jedi wouldn't just forgive him for mudering Mace Windu.
Okay, he has nowhere to go anyways, but why even add the whole plotpoint that Palpy doesn't know how to save Padme at all? All that seems to do is give him less motivation to join the dark side.

Loki's turn to the dark side was much better done thanks to JMS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNDEEYPx54c

>>212188569
You can't defend Anakin going from quipping with Obi-Wan to hating him the next time he sees him. You can't defend Anakin not caring that Palpatine can't save Padme. So you go straight to making up strawmen instead.
People don't hate it because they see themselves, they hate it because it makes no sense.