>kills you and creates a copy

>>212361252 (OP)
GIWTWM

>void my debts and moral obligations
please god let this technology exist soon!

>>212361252 (OP)
Not my problem

>>212361252 (OP)
WRONG, it turns a persons atoms into energy wave form and then transmits that to receiver where they are solidified back into matter.
Take your heckin reddit "disturbing fun facts" and shove them up your ass and then take it out or ass and eat it you stupid pos.

>>212361252 (OP)
I'd be more concerned about the accident from Star Trek 1 happening.

>>212361356
you think a human being can survive being turned into atoms?

>>212361356
what happens when you take apart the molecules of the brain?

>>212361356
You stop existing, period. Doesn't matter if they put you back together, the stream of consciousness stops.

>>212361474
not really

>>212361252 (OP)
So, what if there's heaven? Is it just full of redundant copies?

Like you guys wouldn’t do it. If you could teleport to the store or work or half way across the world you would. You also have to remember that this technology was commonplace in the time of the original series. They were born with it, they grew up with it, and they didn’t think about it. Just was.

>>212361501
concession accepted

>>212361533
No. Only the original has a soul. The others are automatons going off rote chemical reactions and electrical impulses

>>212361474
You can die and be revived. That the stream of consciousness stopping then going.

>>212362360
No, because you not only didn't actually die, but your brain didn't disassemble and reassemble somewhere else.

>a thin layer of your skin is lost between each teleportation

Would you still do it?

I subscribe to Descartes and according to Descartes your brain is just a conduit through which the soul controls your body. The brain being cut to pieces doesn't matter if your soul is the same.

>>212361252 (OP)
sign me up

>>212363222
Humans lose most of their skin cells everyday. You are basically a new (you) every couple months

>>212361252 (OP)
>>212361363
>>212361533
All your cells die and grow new every 5 years or so you are a total new person

>>212364301
This

>>212361252 (OP)
>>212361356
>>212361404
>>212361412
>>212362200

this is like the future version of the china flu vaxx injections

>>212364461
what happens when all your cells die simultaneously

>>212364498
You're a Russian with AIDS.

>>212364562
go back to /k/ boomer nigger retard

>>212361363
Fun fact:it almost got a R for showing the receiving end.

>>212361474
>the stream of consciousness stops
You're not wrong, but this also happens every time you fall asleep. Your hippocampus gets flushed, and the "you" of right now is not the same "you" from yesterday.
>inb4 existence of a soul that transcend the material
Fair enough, but then why wouldn't that soul travel with your atoms when they're being transported and rebuilt on the other side?

>>212361363
and they sad Barclay was paranoid for being neurotic about these things.
what we got back didn't live long fortunately.

>>212364461
>All your cells die and grow new every 5 years or so you are a total new person
isn't that a myth?

>>212361252 (OP)
not to mention the fire hazard

>>212361356
fpbp

>>212367539
does your body get disassembled every time you go to sleep?

>le human body gets replaced every couple of years
but not all at once, there is a continuity with being alive that cannot be broken, even if you pass out or your heart stops for a minute and you get revived, not the same thing as getting atomized and re-assembled (which would absolutely kill you)

>>212361356
Trust the science

>>212364461
The large bones take longer
Heart cells and neurons don't regrow at all
What does that tell you?

>>212365415
where is this footage

>>212361356
Explain Thomas Riker then. Explain how Scotty never aged when he "uploaded his pattern".

>>212364461
>>212369534
Why does the ankle injury I sustained 20 years ago still give me pain in the cold weather and when I'm active?
Why do I still have stretch marks on my thigh where I gained weight in my early 20s?
Where's my new bones and skin that should have been regrown time and time again according to you?

>>212369650
the new cells are identical to the old ones.

>>212369755
Bravo Lucas

>>212369789
the blueprints are damaged, the cells just follow the instructions

>>212361252 (OP)
Nope. Moar like it digitizes you and transmits you like a radio wave to a receiver that reconstitutes you.
We see Mr. Broccoli's POV when he is beamed and he is the same person, before and after the process.

>>212369645
Riker is so stole the transporter assumed he was two people

All the arguments that teleporting doesn't kill you seem to be based off the assumption that we don't have souls and are just meat automatons, so they really put me off

>And what of the immortal soul in such transactions? Can this machine transmit and reattach it as well? Or is it lost forever, leaving a soulless body to wander the world in despair

>>212361404
We're already atoms. Everything is atoms.

>>212361302
You don't need any sovereign citizen-style pseudolegal loopholes if you want to break Federation laws. Just go to a colony planet. You can do ANYTHING.

>>212364538
they cant

>>212368948
nope i learned it in school

>>212369534
no the cells inside them also

>>212369650
because they already had a scar there

>>212371035
>assumption that we don't have souls
what is a soul?

We already settled this question.
Yes, the teleporters of all Star Trek shows set chronologically after TOS do kill you.
No, it doesn't matter. Because in the future, the human self is a macroethical construct of the future principles of evolved and future man, so the individuation and identity is assigned by this macroethical system - the Federation's Ideals - in such a way that nobody needs to care about you as a biological conscious being. The you that is your conscious self is irrelevant, only the idea of your conscious self being ordained by the Federation's values has any value.
Other examples of "individuals" whose individuality is administered by social construction include Data, Odo, the EMH, and Harry Kim's alternate reality counterpart. Nobody cares that they either aren't human, aren't humanoids, aren't real people or aren't the people that they replaced. So why the flying fuck would it matter to anyone that you die when you use the transporter? The assignment of the value of self is more important than the self. You are supposed to die. Get in the transporter, Tuvix you selfish ugly useless fucking swine.

>>212361589
If Sci-Fi featuring automobiles and planes existed in the 1800’s people would have been like “That will never happen. It’s too dangerous. The technology will never exist.”

>>212371082
Not everything, wave particles exist.

>>212371395
cars are still dangerous, deadliest form of transportation

>>212371035
It's funny because Miriam's quote is literally raising the point of this thread. Just because a machine can transfer your atoms to energy and back, doesn't mean that it can transfer your soul too. If scientific advancement can identify the soul and ensure that it is transfered as well, that's a different story, but whenever an engineer or scientist dismisses the question out of hand rather than pursue for an answer that obviously is going to not gel well with religious people.

>>212371458
Unless you can demonstrate a soul existing in the first place why the fuck would scientists waste time assuring religious people of its safety?

>>212371458
>>212371321
>>212371035
Yeah basically all you have to say is
>Don't worry, if you believe in God, He will reattach your soul, He wouldn't let you just drift out like that.
But techbros care too much about how that would make them look like they're conceding.

>>212371497
It's a better way to waste time than to assure that scientific research will
1. Comply with gender equality and LGBTQ+ tolerance in the work space.
2. Eradicate neocolonialist, traditionally western centric, and other whiteness-adjacent presumptions and conclusions from the scientific method.
3. Enforce stifling safety and bureaucratic regulations with the explicit purpose of minimising research output out of the possibility that it would affect the economic sustainable development of our wonderful utopian social liberal democratic society.
There's ALWAYS going to be concessions. Scientists are incapable and unwilling to spend their time governing themselves, so civilian political dependence is essential and which civilian block you gain your support from makes a big difference.

>>212361356
Let me know when you figure out how to survive atomisation.

>>212364461
Brain cells don't. Once they die they're permanently gone.

>>212361252 (OP)
converts you to energy, beams you to a new location and converts you back to matter.

>>212369808
Nonsense. Your DNA is the blueprint and it wasn't damaged or you'd be dead.

>>212371035
>the assumption that we don't have souls

Well yeah. There's literally zero proof souls exist.

>>212371653
Partially untrue, but yeah your DNA can't make cells grow back an entire limb. Only stem cells can do that.

>>212371674
OK but most of the civilized world believes in them regardless

>>212371576
teleporter machines should be able to give everyone aids as they pass through it so everyone becomes equal.

>>212371035
holy frick he even looks like a dwemer from the elder scrolls and that's what those dudes were all about too!!!

>>212371674
All ethics are inevitably based on fundamental assumptions, and all decisions are ultimately guided by ethics. Either you make an assumption that the soul exists and work from there, or you make other assumptions instead.
It's worth noting that Pope Francis was a very stout human-centrist who actively advocated that human beings are unique amongst the creatures of creation and to let such a perspective be buried will eventually cause catastrophic harm to ourselves. Contrast this against the multitudes of
>trust the science, there's no side-effects!
>men can cut off their dicks and become women
>how dare you, the discoverer of DNA, mention that genetics can cause racial differences in intelligence?
and their incessant belief that human consciousness has no more value than that of animals (and recently argued PLANTS), and you can see there's some important consequences to which assumptions you make.
>but it's illogical!
Read some fucking Kant. All assumptions are illogical until logic is applied to them to reach viable conclusions.

>>212369313
>>212361474
>muh stream of consciousness
There is no reason to think that has any significance to your identity.

>durr's nuh reasuun!
Not an argument.

>>212371797
I was with you until you started ranting about science like a 5 year old.

>>212371892
I'm not ranting about science. I'm ranting about modern selective attitudes about science. There's a difference.

>>212371797
Cool. Where's the proof that souls exist and humans are different from all other animas?

>>212371952
We don't prove axioms, nigger.

>>212361589
If it was a portal-based teleporter, where I could stick my hand through a hole in space and feel no tingle or anything, then I'd use it. I'd legit be hesitant to trust I'll actually survive the 'just fuck my atoms up bro' kind

Also obligatory posting of this short
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocgFkHElzgQ

>>212371797
I forgot he was both "into darkness" and Enterprise.

>>212371965
It's not an axiom.

>>212371969
Based canadians, I bet everyone in the making of this cartoon was euthanised.

>>212371952
I scoffed at your comment. My immediate reaction was that of course animals don't have souls. They can't create art. But, then I thought of bird songs. And though: wow. And then I thought about when you look into the eyes of a sad dog. There has to be a soul in there. You have convinced me.

And TNG purists claim you can't mix coom and deep science fiction.

>>212372075
Interesting.

For me it's not about the soul. It's about the sole.

>>212371626
Explain why psilocybin can reform concussion-damaged tissue
Wait you can't because a lost of these popsci brain researchers are also huge deniers of things like CTE

>>212371797
Nice pasta

>>212361252 (OP)
>kills you and creates a copy
this triggers the geezers more than any good nutrek

>>212372275
>shrooms fix brain damage
sound like nonsense that stoner hippes say. not medical science

>>212361252 (OP)
practically, i'm still the same me, so i don't care.
i could also have an existential crisis over my perceived reality being a sham, but i won't because i embrace the absurdity.

>>212369755
It might work if your name is Theseus, otherwise no

When we move by train or by car it's just the same. You are hit with a gazillion neutrinos every second, Earth has moved around the sun, your cells are fighting, dying, being replaced, you are sweating, oxygen is renewed every few seconds, the sparkling neurons of a second ago are now dark, while others emerged in electricity once again.

>>212362200
Jeez, Stark Trek really is about socialism.

>>212361356
>solves the heisenberg uncertainty principle with a device named simply heisenberg compensator
You know its just a piece of plastic they labeled in permanent market to shut the critics. Starfleet aint care if youre just a clone.

>>212371440
But they exist brainlet

>>212361252 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUXKUcsvhQc
This is worth watching if you have a minute.

>>212362360
Yeah but when you die and get revived its still the same atoms in the same quantum states and positions. They just start getting oxygen again.
The prob with transporter is a) you cant scan atoms b) even if you can when you transport youre not teleporting youre recreating, so what if you dont destroy the original? You end up with two of the same person with no difference, so how could the destroy process not be killing you

>>212372275
Bc it causes dendrites to form between other neurons which compensates for the dead neurons, not repair so much as patchwork alternative.routes

>>212364461
Dont get science lessons from joe rogan. you can just google image search cell lifespan.and get charts proving you wrong

>>212373056
the cell thing has been wives tale shit long before rogan

>>212373069
Pretty rare tho, he popularized massively

>>212372955
>the same atoms in the same quantum states and positions
The physical matter doesn't matter. One carbon atom is the same as another.
>You end up with two of the same person with no difference, so how could the destroy process not be killing you
Because both people are still the person who used the device.

>>212373087
>One carbon atom is the same as another
"Let me just eyeball recreating your brain matter"
>Because both people are still the person who used the device.
What? one person uses the machine, it normally kills him and recreates him at another location. If you dont kill him it can still recreate him (bc it relies on breaking heisenberg to get a perfect scan). Meaning the machine is making a duplicate not transporting you

>velmatranny made another thread

>>212361589
I would just teleport the objects to me from the stoee instead or committing suicide for convenience of my clone

>>212363305
This guy gets it and basically you are all faggots, especially the 'muh stream of consciousness' monkeys. People afraid of their own fragility are pathetic

>>212363305
>>212373272
sure but why does the soul turn off when i get anasthesia

>>212373351
It doesnt, just your braindead head does

why all geezers so "spiritual" for a science programme

>>212372931
that was kino

>>212361356
>Take your heckin reddit "disturbing fun facts"
But only a redditor would believe you can do this and still be the same person, because they don't believe in souls.

>>212373527
why do geezers need to assert shows exist within a fictional setup?
schizo at least

>>212373527
why do geezers need to assert souls exist within a fictional setup?
schizo at least

when I watch an interesting episode I like to go on imdb and check the rating and reviews

>1/10
>Very toxic
>I can't believe nothing happened to the male volcan. He clearly violate T'pol 's mind with mind fusion.

>>212373602
>be such an atheist fag
>terrified of the supernatural

>>212373647
why supernatural fags cling to a show that is the total opposite?
hypocrisy galore 200%

DO NOT RUN IN THE HALLWAYS

>>212361252 (OP)
I always wanted black mirror to do an episode that addresses this, where the crew comes to the realization none of them are real and are pretty much just clones of clones of clones at this point.

>>212373709
because trek can't do that itself
otherwise geezers would go crazyyyyyyy
>muh soul

>>212373709
they can't come to that realization because that's not how it works in Star trek. unless there's malfunctions. and they've already done transporter clone episodes

>>212373176
Yes, and the duplicate is still a continuation of the person who uses the machine.

>>212374536
so why not have a database of every personell or clone the best officer multiple times

>>212374536
What does a continuation even mean? Its not the same person so you are a corpse end of story

>>212374638
you know all our cells are replaced right?

>>212374686
Why are you tryin to troll me

I wonder how God feels when he sees just how badly he fucked up with zoomers?

>>212374686
not true for brain cells

>>212374742
god loves all combinations and that was always the plan
the real trinity is (birth, maintenance, destruction) and every concept has to go by then
geezers do vishnu stuff, I do shiva

>>212374686
Amputated limbs grow back!

>>212375018
>tfw my decade of tendonosis and liver mtdna disease were all in my head

>>212375018
>>212375066
applying IRL logic to a show that anti-matter is done by magic crystals

>>212374575
They should.
>>212374638
"You" are just an entity that remembers being you. If the duplicate has all your memories then it is you.

>>212371035
>that comic
What an absolute fucking retard.

>>212375106
I'm responding to a scientific claim, not philosophizing about a fictional television programme.

>>212375186
stop flipflopping them fago

>>212369645
>transporter turns matter into energy, in a setting where its common for organic lifeforms to become pure energy, where the greek pantheon was real, etc
>transporter beam passes through an atmospheric distortion that resonates with said energy beam and reflects part of it

>>212375144
not an argument

>>212375112
You again yeesh. You dont see any contradiction in having two ostensibly identical duplicates with the same memories?

>>212375349
No. What contradiction do you think there is?

>>212375400
is this just an AI conversion? did you even read the text?

>>212375391
That you have a contiguous memory and the clone is lightyears away with a slight gap between its clonepoint and creation

>>212375391
You seem to fully endorse "better" versions of people taking roles in society >>212375112 as much as you apply equal value to all people; original or copy.
It's inherently hypocritical.

>>212361252 (OP)
>*sips*
>aaah time to watch trek

>>212375584
I thought this shit was shampoo

>>212375503
What does it mean for memory to be contiguous?
>>212375533
>You seem to fully endorse "better" versions of people taking roles in society
Of course.
>as much as you apply equal value to all people; original or copy
I'm not making a value judgement about the clone, I'm making an ontological claim about the clone's identity.

>>212375783
look it up in the dictionary

>>212375783
>ontological claim about the clone's identity.

you mean "playing a word game."

>>212375688
It’s shampoo for your mind

>>212375857
Don't be a faggot. What does it matter if clone is far away? Its memories are all in its head just like yours.

>>212375584
>*sips*

>>212376041
No. If there is anything I've said that you think is unclear I'll happily try to explain it better.

>>212376159
You misunderstand. I understand your argument. I also understand you're just ceasing all further consideration once you hit a satisfactory definition of "identity," ignoring how it relates to other concepts inherent to being an aware human being.

>>212361356
Canonically it disassembles you at the atomic level. You may not consider that death but it’s not unreasonable for others to.

>>212376074
You have the choice to use the teleporter or not. Would you deny your clone life? Why not make 40 clones of yourself? Are you better than your clone, so much that you can deny 39 clones life? Why not 39 billion clones?

Does resource scarcity have anything to do with morals?

>>212376256
that's contradicted more than its confirmed, and never outright stated.

TRANSPORTERS KILL YOU
TUVIX WAS NOT AN INDIVIDUAL
THE VOYAGER CONSPIRACY IS REAL
SISKO ESCAPED TRIAL FOR WAR CRIMES
EDDINGTON WAS RIGHT

>>212376309
It’s never contradicted and it’s how the technology inherently works

>>212376365
barclay conscious in the matter stream contradicts your headcanon. matter is energy in star trek.

>>212376231
I don't follow.

I think it would be good to clone the best officers multiple times. This beats having spend resources training new officers. Any argument that would convince me otherwise would be consequentialist. For example, it might result in problems with the genepool.

But that has nothing to do with identity of the clone. What am I not getting?

>>212361412
the real techno marvel is the atom receiver that copies everything back perfectly. somehow you missed this

>>212376448
Barclay is only conscious at certain points
It’s not headcanon. But you are extremely bad faith.

>>212363222
>with each teleport you become a bit darker in complexion

>>212376488
>not agreeing with me completely is bad faith

>>212376289
Whether or not I use the teleporter is entirely down to whether it is useful for me to do so or not. Morality is a spook.

>>212376461
>What am I not getting?
the part where your consciousness, awareness, isn't going to magically shift over to the clone.

>>212376526
No but trying to attack established canon as headcanon is bad faith and you should kys

>>212376580
disassembling atoms isn't "established canon." "Converting matter to energy" is canon.

>>212371591
you're not alive but it doesn't matter. Re-imaging of cells and atoms in exact formation is the same thing. There is no such thing as a soul.

>>212371674
The unconscious cannot be mapped or measured out by science. It is not a quantifiable aspect of life but we know its there. You could call that the 'soul'. Living beings inherited this from the original consciousness, God.

>>212376604
Wrong. Bad faith poster kys.

>>212376609
>Re-imaging of cells and atoms in exact formation is the same thing.

To the clone and other third parties. first person, you're dead.

>>212376557
>whether it is useful for me to do so or not. Morality is a spook.
You do realize you've inherently decided a "right" and "wrong" action while simultaneously claiming "it's a spook?"

>>212376665
"converting matter to energy" is a direct quote from TOS.

>>212376557
You anon? You are your clone says you? You dont want to be whole?

>>212376461
>What am I not getting?
The obvious identification that Clone 1 and Clone 2 exist. You claim, "no, they're both Eric. Clone him again, he's not Clone 3, he's Eric."
>Okay, then give this apple to Eric.
"Uh. Which one?"
>The better one.

>>212376560
>the part where your consciousness, awareness, isn't going to magically shift over to the clone.

I'll clarify this as best I can.

Let's say Bob decides to clone himself. The way you see it is that Bob, who we'll call Bob1, uses the cloning machine to create Bob2. Now Bob1 and Bob2 are clearly not the same person, so only Bob1 has claim to being the original Bob.

I think this makes unjustifiable assumptions about consciousness and identity. The way I see it is any time we talk about a person, we are invoking a particular instance. Bob1 uses the cloning machine but rather than there now being Bob1 and Bob2, it's more like there's now Bob2 and Bob3. Both have claim to being continuations of Bob1.

>>212376763
I'm not talking about bob. I'm talking about (you). I'm talking about (you)r first person perspective of reality.

>>212376674
No I haven't. I'm not placing any moral weight to any action.

>>212376763
>tfw i btfo of your world view last thread with my planck argument and youre just repeating the same shit anyway

>>212376813
Doesn't change anything.
>>212376823
What is your argument?

> The process of being disassembled – or simply, the conversion of matter into energy – begins when matter starts to lose molecular cohesion, at which point, the molecules would begin to emit nucleonic particles. This experience, as perceived by the passenger, may cause to feeling lightheadedness. (TNG: "Realm Of Fear")

>>212376763
This is just a roundabout way of saying you dont believe consciousness exists btw. Youre a pzombie

>>212376881
How do? Consciousness is the only thing I believe has to exist.

>mrw looking at my previous self before the transportation

Both Bobs think they are Bob1 and they are both correct you fucking brainlet

>>212377021
Bob2 doesnt even have the same memories as bob1

>>212376763
Your mother does not qualify herself the same way YOU qualify her.
Which version is your mother's identity? Does she even have an identity?

What about Mother 1 and Mother 2 and Mother 3 --- do you DARE decide an action to take against the one you identify as Mother? What if the one YOU choose is NOT the Mother your Mother chooses? Who is "right?"

Metaphysical consciousness, spiritual soul, philosophical thesis about "identity politics" extends beyond your perspective.
Even in the terms of Star Trek, the final "lesson" spoken is Q endorsing you explore what "existence" is even supposed to mean.

>>212377044
Yes Bob does

>>212376881
Bob1 is the one with my consciousness. Bob2 and Bob3 while being indistinguishable to outside observers, are clearly not me. I can never be moved over to them. If Bob1 dies, I die, and Bob2/3 carry on living my life.

>>212377054
No theres a time lag between copy and create

>>212376859
>Doesn't change anything.
Yes, it does. You're taking a third person stance on identity, awareness, consciousness, etc, to distance yourself from the fact your model of how transporters work, which isn't even canon, terminates (you)r life, because to a third party, "you" still exist.

>>212377069
Bob+ has the same exact memories and experience as other Bobs. They are all split from the same instance and no Bob supersedes another

>>212371035
It's literally the opposite. The argument that it kills you is entirely dependent on the teleporter physically disassembling you. The teleporter does nothing to a soul. The teleporter is only a problem to materialists.

>>212376876
>season 6
>the episode where barclay is conscious in the matter stream thus contradicting the whole "disassembly" line

The entire point of that episode is that is clearly and provably wrong.

>>212377005
wow rude

>>212377096
No. This is how I feel about myself as well. What makes the me today the same me as I was yesterday, or 10 years ago, is merely that I remember being those mes.

>>212377131
Wrong. The disassembly is perceptively instantaneous so him having perspective before and after means nothing you fucking brainlet slime puddle.

>>212377120
That is not always the case. There are times when people get stuck in transport for a really long time or purposefully put themselves in a transport stasis. Same shit could happen where the original is not killed, then later on the clone transport finally occurs and Bob2 emerges. Bob1 is ancient having lived a full life, suddenly seeing Bob2 young and having no idea what happened or when it is.

>>212377185
You're just confirming you think of yourself in the third person.

>>212377185
Youre depersonalized, do you have brain damage?

>>212377189
I accept your concession. And, again, the episode itself directly shows the transition isn't instant.

>>212377197
That’s irrelevant. Both Bobs would still split from the exact same instant of existence. You have approached the limits of your intelligence.

>>212377268
Time doesnt function in instants

>>212377218
I guess I think of my past selves in third person. The only first person experience I have is right now.

But doesn't that defeat your argument? If you think of your past in the first person, and a clone of you also thinks of their past in the first person, then which one has first person claim to that past?

>>212377268
>identity is memory
>okay what happens when two clones develop different memories from a delayed cloning?
>th-they're still the same p-person you're dumb

>>212377306
Reading failure (because you’re dumb). Both existences are the original, there is no way to claim which is the clone.

>>212377297
the one who didn't just pop out of a cloning machine.

>>212377348
Why?

>>212377361
because the original will never have memories of stepping out of the business end of a cloning machine.

>>212369593
It's in his ass

>>212376818
>No I haven't.
Yes you have. You've decided "this is useful to me, so I will take this action." It's no different than choosing to blink or choosing to murder your neighbor's ferret. Your willingness to take the action proves its value, its "usefulness" to you, that makes it inherently justified. A "right" action to take (or not take).
>I'm not placing any moral weight to any action.
Be careful not to get to wrapped up in the semantics of "right" or "ethics" or "evil;" the idea is that you are, EXPLICITLY, defining "this is useful to me, therefore I will enact it." It's a very personal perspective. Even if you decide to take an action that ISN'T "useful" to you, for the sake of others perhaps, you've STILL wrapped your action in morality; you've decided it's a better action to take... and perhaps everyone agrees! Or not!

The problem with your stance on "Star Trek teleporters" being a completely justifiable action with irrefutable anti-use argument is you refuse to acknowledge any outside perspective of identity. Only YOU get to define what reality is, and any disagreement is untenable.
We call this "naïve."

>>212377441
Blinking is autonomic bro

>>212361252 (OP)
This proves creating and collapsing worm holes on demand for transportation will be better. Just enter coordinates for source and destination.

>>212361474
this retarded nigga thinks he dies everytime he sleeps or faints.

In quantum mechanics, the only way to exactly copy a quantum state is by destroying the original.

>>212377472
>the episode about the insurgents using that tech
>it causes space cancer

>Goddamnit Simon, I can't keep telling you how it works! You lost the coin toss!

>>212377518
that's more to do with how bouncing shit off quantum particles to detect them changes them.

>>212363305
Retarded niggas believing in ghosts are why america is going to the shitter.

>>212377543
>mfw starneranon thinks he lost the coin toss every second

>>212377441
I really don't give a shit if you think an action is right or wrong or justified or not.

>>212377342
your model of how transporters work is "The Prestige" level.
>lmao we actually are teleporting the original and generating a clone at the input site and killing it for the lulz

>>212377465
you are now blinking manually

>>212377120
>Bob+ has the same exact memories and experience as other Bobs.
>They are all split from the same instance and no Bob supersedes another
And now you conflate "memory/experience" with "physical," while still maintaining no concept of conscious identity.
We can continue your hypothetical of "what if" and concede Bob1, Bob2, and Bob3 are IMMACULATE copies! Indistinguishable! For a brief instant... and never again. Has the universe grown better with these new copies? Will the universe grown worse if one ceases to exist? Do you apply value to the Bobs, and is that equal value?

Furthermore, if you're the same Anon who claims "better officers deserves clones to fulfill roles" >>212375112 , why bother creating a perfect copy when you could improve the copy through minor adjustment? Maybe teach a copy to perform his tasks better, and copy THAT copy?

You fling value and identity around as if it's meaningless, yet you simultaneously claim, "no, no; this version is better. He is more meaningful." In order to have arguments with others, you must try to understand THEIR perspectives and definitions; to dismiss others' ideas or simply not understand is a failure. But this is common for humans.

>>212377654
You responded, didn't you? You seem to care I took an action, and seemed to "think" it was "right" to respond.
You're a hypocrite. Very human, sure, but not relevant to self-identification and inherently a contradiction to WHY you take ANY action whatsoever.

>>212377753
You're just proving again that you think of yourself in the third person. That you're disassociated.

>>212377544
Yeah, but it means the clones scenarios talked about in this thread and elsewhere are impossible, there's no clones of you possible, there's only one state of "you" . The quantum theory says only imperfect clones of quantum states can be made, so not exactly you.

>>212377753
>Furthermore, if you're the same Anon who claims "better officers deserves clones to fulfill roles"
That wasn't him, it was me.
>why bother creating a perfect copy when you could improve the copy through minor adjustment? Maybe teach a copy to perform his tasks better, and copy THAT copy?
Yeah that would be great, do that.

>>212377721
No i am not anon, however you are breathing maually and your chest is getting very tight.

>>212377849
taking one field of particle physics and trying to apply it to all physics is really dumb bro

>>212377898
It applies to all atomic particles, guess what your brain uses for thinky thinks

>>212377796
You're just playing word games. If you have a serious argument, make it.

>>212377925
>dude like biology is just quantitum states because I read about that recently

okay bro

>>212377925
My soul

>>212377928
pretty sure he's autistic enough to think word games are the end-all. that the definition of a word is the final authority, and he's locked himself into this "identity is memory" cul-de-sac he can't escape.

>>212377947
You are retarded

>>212377987
No, (you).

>>212377861
You don't value yourself, much. Which is understandable.

>I was just transported. I'm still me right? Look, it's still my face when I look into the mirror.

>>212372786
NTA, it is a fact, shrooms do wonders

>>212378084
I value myself a lot. In fact I value myself above almost every other person.

>>212377804
You're confusing me with another Anon. I speak as a man who operates on the belief of influence of action, not as one who operates keeping clear definition at-all-times (3rd person).

That longer post is my attempt to explain that taking actions, or taking no actions, bears influence. And the very moment any action is taken, or not taken, changes identity. Similar, sure! But the creation (or eradication) or an existence is very much worth noting, and many humans will equate such chaotic structures to have some "right" or "wrong" meaning in them... even if that definition changes from moment to moment, time to time, or otherwise.

>>212377928
>word games
I love erudite discussion! This is not a semantic conversation, it is verbose. I MUST apply English terms to my viewpoint in order to convey those ideas to you! The problem seems to be you're quite hung up about it.

>>212377898
The only physics that describes perfect replication in theory and practice is quantum mecanics. Classical physics in practice can never do it, just in theory . So talking about multiple clones of you existing at the same time is useless. There can be only one clone, if the original is destroyed.

>>212378387
>its not in physics so its pointless to discuss

this is just reaching hard for an authority to appeal to

>>212378323
If we had a rock and we had a disagreement about what minerals the rock was made of(I believed it was a carbonate and you believed it was a silicate). Then one of us is right regardless of any value judgements made. If I want to use the rock to bash my wife's brains in, that is a completely separate issue.

>>212378466
Look, the thing is at least quantum mechanics gives us a base for perfect cloning of states. Even if you take it only based on logic, if you could clone you the other you would be...another body that has a different consciousness than yours.

>>212378632
>a different consciousness than yours
What does that even mean?

>>212377381
thread ended here it seems. the "identity is memory" guy hasn't come back.

>>212378632
I mean cloning while keeping the original you, the other you would have a different consciousness.

>>212378709
consult your dictionary.

>>212378709
I meant if you clone yourself while keeping the original you, its obvious the other body has a different consciousness. But if its done by quantum mechanics rules, the original is destroyed, so in theory it has the possibility that the clone at the other end has the original consciousness.

>So, you got transported away but they didn't delete the original too huh?
>Yep, guess we're stuck here. They don't care about the ones left behind.

>>212378722
I'm right here, your argument was just too retarded to bother responding to.

>>212378551
Again, you're defining the identity of the rock by its physical properties. Those circumstances define "right" and "wrong" if we dare claim its "being" to include something it does not.
Which is fine! Great, you are more than welcome to define "identity" as "mapwork."

I do not.
I define "identity" as "influence."
That same rock? It's different from other rocks.
Myself? I'm different from my clones.
The primary differences are the provocation that follow my existence. Positive, negative, "right or wrong," neutral or meaningless, endless arguments can be made about that, but their inclusion is necessary. To make the claim that a copy of yourself is 100% you is inherently fallible. And then, to take action with or against you, or your copy, provokes any human into applying value (though that value will change based on the perspective of the human witnessing, or plant, or rock, or light particle bouncing off that rock).

To describe "identity" without accounting for "influence" is... shallow. Understandable, yes; time won't allow people to spend their valuable resource listening to every facet, but dismissible is not equitable to irrelevant.

>>212378876
oh, then I accept your concession then.

It's a magical device that transports the soul, INTACT, and builds a new body around the intact soul. Souls can survive instantaneous transportation because God wills it so. Checkmate.

>>212378978
See? Laughably retarded.

>>212378903
Slow down, I am not so philosophically advanced.

Do you agree or not that there are objective states of things? That one of us would be right out wrong about the the rock?

>>212369650
your new cells are the shitty new cells you have while being older. The body tries to replicate those baby cells, and does a retarded job and makes them resemble the old ones, but made shittier. It's called aging. You resemble yourself as a kid but as an old retarded faggot you are essentially an entirely new being, despite being made of those original baby cells.
Nigger.

>>212379083
Google says the neurons in the human brain are for life. They dont change.

>>212376763
Max, is that you? Or am I having an episode?

>>212379207
stop posting AI garbage you retard

>>212379272
cope geezer cunt

>>212379253
Depends on who's asking.

>>212379287
you dont even know english or dont even read the output moron

>>212379074
Depends on if the rock exists. You or I could define it a trillion different ways (you define it as "grey" but I define it as "small"), but is that how the rock defines its own identity? Is the rock wrong?

When you define the circumstances, I can be very wrong; a carbon-based rock is NOT silicone! The drawback, however, is increased parameters narrows the field -- great for science and study, but poor for philosophy. Most people, if forced to recognize this, simply dismiss willingness and say "fine, whatever, I don't care." They aren't wrong for doing it, but it doesn't make them right, either. By the same token, most people HATE being defined by others... are you likely to define someone else as "right?"

Physical properties are much easier to scientifically discuss than metaphysical identity.
A Star Trek teleport is very much you! But is it you? Defining this becomes tricky.

>>212379020
You can’t take the stance that identity is memory and then claim there is no difference between the person who steps into the cloning machine and the person who sees the sign that says “clones only before this point.” Your argument defeats itself.

>>212369645
I noticed no one's refuting this post. They're just making jokes or acting like they don't see it lol

>>212379457
Ok, I think I understand. In that case I would walk back most of my argument and reframe it as only pertaining to the way consciousness manifests in the universe.

The clone doesn't necessarily have to identify as you, but likewise you don't have to identify as the thing that occupied your body yesterday.

>>212379503
You are so retarded.

>>212379772
>I have no response
Is what you mean to say.

If memory is a physical characteristic the person produced by the cloning machine has physical attributes distinguishing it from the original. The memory of exiting the cloning machine that the original can’t have. Possibly more identifying characteristics to shut down industrial grade pedants such as yourself.

>>212379772
>identify as

This is where defeated arguments go to die.

>>212376461
Yeah like why not clone Data a few hundred times? Less of a moral quandary when he's a robut

>>212373351
your soul goes away and gets gangbanged by trannies which is why you always feel beat when waking up from anasthesia

>>212379890
Be careful; someone lying about claiming to be you seems to be just as viable as you claiming to be you. How could anyone else tell? Apparently, only you get to decide truth.

Ultimately, teleporter use isn't about defining self, it's about if you discern its value to be worth the cost... if you dare claim it has cost. If you define it.
If you identify with its outcome. Whatever that outcome may be.

>>212380082
I’m the only one looking through these eyes and only ever will be, you disassociated autistic person.
>b-but eye transplants
Then I’ll be blind.

>>212380082
You are the only person talking about “value.”

>>212380133
Are they the same eyes as yesterday?
Were you you, yesterday?

Did you know that there is another completely perfect copy of you, sitting next to you, claiming to be you? But you claim he's not you; you are!
How could I tell who's right? Am I wrong to judge him?

There's more to perspective than "me."

>>212379393
that is the funny part moron

>>212380171
Am I better or worse for that?
Be careful!! If you answer "better" or "worse" or even "neither," you, too, have applied value!

For an Anonymous poster so deadset about the effectiveness, efficiency, usefulness of teleportation as it applies to himself to be so livid that someone ELSE incorporates "value" to manifestation or action is quite... fragile.

>>212379357
I'm just a random schizo, but I've read enough of your writing to recognize your tone, I guess?
It puts the lotion on it's skin. Isn't it ironic?

>>212361252 (OP)
Every 3 years or so your entire body is remade new. Also, when you go to slee you die. Have a good night anon.

>>212380384
NOT THE TEETH

>>212380384
>Every 3 years or so your entire body is remade new.
This is slow enough that the soul stays attached.
>Also, when you go to sleep you die.
It's really dumb that you keep comparing this to the transporter. It's not the same at all. Your body is unconscious, everything is still living, it's repairing and maintaining itself, the brain/consciousness/soul are all kept busy with dream kinos.

>>212380240
You’re just proving you have no definition of self.

>>212380499
>This is slow enough that the soul stays attached.
>he thinks the soul is bound by a speed limit

>>212380316
Well, your argument is worse because it needs additional factors that aren’t relevant to whether you continue existing or not when you’re cloned and destroyed.

>>212380499

>>212380499
>This is slow enough that the soul stays attached.

>>212380580
>I say it's not relevant!
I say it is!
>YOU'RE WRONG! I refuse to allow outside influence that doesn't support me!
The Internet is nothing more than a Monty Python skit. Enjoy the rest of your Saturday.

>>212380766
How are third party perspectives relevant to the cessation of your first person perspectives when you cloned and destroyed?

>>212380766
>lose argument
>run away
lawl

soul does not exist for science, period, get over geezers
but......................
there is "sparkle of life"
what makes organic special
it is unknown if the sparkle would be teleported or not

It's extremely enlightening to understand zoomies are the most soulless generation. It all becomes clear why they can't comprehend anything from before they were born. They look at art with confusion. They can't create. They have no passion. There is no soul behind their husk's eyes.

>>212381116
It's extremely enlightening to see people lacking something that is not proven by science to exist
lets have superstitions, but only the approved ones by jesus or something

>OWW FUCK! It really IS killing me! Don't use the transporter, guys!

>>212381746
Me gooning