Is he the most well-developed character in TV history? It's hard to think of a contender.

I liked Don Draper more

>>212442622 (OP)
Saul Goodman is close

AJ goes through crazy character developments
>lovable goof in Season 1
>gradually goes from acting out to being a completely selfish turd
>nearly ends up in military school
>dates a single mom
>tries to kill himself

>>212442622 (OP)
I liked hanana banana

>>212442694
lol; but why does BB has such a cult?

>>212442706
thats more like character regression than character development

Nate Fisher in Six Feet Under completely mogs Tony Soprano. Watch more series

>>212442735
At least he doesn't end up dead like his father

>>212442622 (OP)
The Situation

>>212442622 (OP)
This guy

>>212442832
Uhh, he doesn't die though.

welcome to fuckin Deadwood. can be combative

>>212442889
Tony dies at the end

>>212442622 (OP)
Its a mobster with Mommy issues. Ive seen analize this and quite frankly I dont need this kind of aggravation.

>>212442622 (OP)
He's a close 2nd or 3rd but it's Charles Ryder, though it's cheating since he comes from a mini-series that is a 95% faithful adaptation of a classic novel
>>212442919
Another contender
>>212442866
Just a Tony wanna-be

>>212442981
Oh yeah? Prove it.

>>212442730
is the fanbase for one of the most popular tv shows ever created a cult?

>>212442622 (OP)
He's one of the worst ones. Retards like him though. Good for them.

>>212442706
He's never a lovable goof, he's a self centered dope. He's just barely smart enough to recognize that his life is hollow and he has no real interests beyond partying, and rather than leaning into it and devoting himself to meaningless sensual pleasure at all costs like his dad, he just becomes so depressed that he tries to kill himself, except he's too dumb to even kill himself

>>212442622 (OP)
Like 75% of the show was just aimless fucking around with celebrity guests and no thesis as Gandolfini just kept Flanderizing Tony. I wouldn't really call that development.

>>212443081
I think so. It's B+ show that some ppl are worshiping.
I understand why it's popular — it's a polished show with a very simple and easy-to-follow premise, plot, and characters. But goddamn it, the highest rating on IMDb of any long-running show?

>>212442622 (OP)
It's either him or Vic from The Shield

>>212442622 (OP)
The most well developed character in history is Norma Stitz

>>212443878
carmella sabotaged any of his attempts at being a party boy when she started treating him like he'd murdered someone after he had his little blowout in new york. couple'a beers. shamed or whipped at every avenue for not living up to amoral boomer's parental fantasy. and wallace and gromit? that thing weighed like fifty pounds. how many trees gave their lives for that?

>>212442622 (OP)
Major Houlihan from MASH

RIP in peace Loretta Swit

imagine never having the makings of a varsity athlete

>fucking jigaboo cocksucking motherfuckers
what did he mean by this? it didnt even happen

>>212446434
most relatable scene i have watched in my life. i have gotten angrier at hypotheticals which have never happened to me. its a wop thing

>>212446571
*nigger thing

>>212446600
those tend to also get violently angry at less abstract things

>>212442622 (OP)
This thread doesn't have the makings of a varsity athlete

>>212442730
One of the last shows they made from when they actually made good and entertaining TV shows instead of overt political propaganda

>>212443062
How is Don Tony's wannabe? they have entirely different personalities. You must be retarded

>>212447686
This is a massive blow to my self esteem, anon

>>212442981
he actually doesn't, and i can explain why if you're actually interested

he’s just a trial run for Don Draper. after Tony “cures” his panic attacks he’s just spinning his wheels until the end. They try to turn him into a psycho in the last season because they’re totally out of ideas. Shit, Pete Campbell and Roger Sterling from mad men are both better characters

>>212448327
Well you should do something about whatever happened there

>>212442694
lmao

>>212445317
Vic is great, it's just very strange how he starts off murdering an innocent policeman and never does anything even close to as bad later. they kinda fucked up the pilot

>>212442622 (OP)
he's barely developed at all

>>212442622 (OP)
yes. Don Draper comes close but Sopranos is basically a show about getting to know Tony.
>>212442919
just no
>>212443038
>Ive seen analize
>>212442730
reddit
>>212448551
inherently wrong

>>212450481
Yeah he's always about the same since the beginning, people around him develop and then he fucks them over or kills them so he can remain in the same place he was at the start.

>>212450467
Shawn Ryan explained that they had to throw that scene in the pilot because then it might haven't got caught. It's probably the best pilot episode for a TV show period. I understand your criticism, although I believe they handled it okay during the runtime by making it seem like Vic didn't want to pass for that again or shit would get even worse.

>>212450560
>Ive seen analize

yes. I love Vic but he doesn't exactly compare in that manner

Don Drapper fails to be seen as cool by the rest of the cast. Tony and Vic only get this with their partners, also neither of them ended up as depressing alcoholics.

>>212442730
Same reason Family Guy does: most Americans are retards with no ability to discern wheat from chaff. If you feature a Serious Sounding Man saying Things In a Serious Tone, they'll believe it's a Serious Drama despite the fact it features a "public employee without health insurance" and "military-grade treadmills".

Moreover, they conflate plot with story and character, and to their way of thinking this makes Walter White an interesting person and Tony Soprano not, though that's backward. White is uninteresting because his motive is singular and blatant, and renders him uncomplicated: he has cancer a bloo bloo bloo, and now every single fucking thing he does is justified. Tony's interesting because he's this vast measure of contradictions, some of them repulsive, but at times they make him a good man, husband, and father, while at others making him a piece of shit. It's really hard to nail him down and judge him, whereas everyone in Breaking Bad is this one-note cliche.

The Shield is only slightly better but only because of really good actors. God, it had even the same basic premise.

>>212442622 (OP)
Jon Taffer isn't a character.

>>212442622 (OP)
Shane Vendrell on The Shield is 10 times the character.

>>212443878
>he's too dumb to even kill himself
He enacts his suicide plan perfectly but gets cold feet after jumping into the pool. It’s something that happens to a lot of suicidal people.

>>212453606
Thank you for a good answer

>>212453709
the fact that he could save himself after jumping in the pool shows that he didn't enact his suicide plan perfectly lol

>>212453606
>God, it had even the same basic premise.
Because Vince ripped it off.

>>212442622 (OP)
He didnt develop at all, he had numerous arcs where he was on the precipice of not being a total psychopath and then he doubles down to the same person he was before and then he dies

>>212455022
thats his character arc moron. People don't change. Thats the point. In fact, with hubris they get worse

>>212455124
>his character arc is not having an arc and being the same from beginning to end

>>212455191
like the other anon said, i think that was the whole point of not only Tony but also of season 6A & B, if not the entire series altogether. Some people have breakthroughs and some push to get better but ultimately the soprano family (tony, carm and even meadow) hate seeing people improve their lot in life and do what they can to bully others down to their level while also becoming increasingly tolerant if not flat out fully giving into their environment. It's been shown time and time again in the series.

>>212455124
what a stupid cope, characters like Paulie and Christopher have clear arcs. Tony is just kind of a nothing-character

Tony starts the series off by being an asshole and it ends with him... being an asshole...

>>212455376
I think you are just unironically dumb. You have either zero self awareness or you happen to be mentally retarded

>>212455565
Ultima ratio retardum

Tony pretty clearly degrades over time, he's not the same person he was in 6B as in S1. He adheres to the same principles, sure, but doing so has a marked effect on him.

>>212453709
>perfectly
The rope is too long, hes not so small that the cinder block would drag him down anyways. Unless he also took some heavy sedatives he'd just be splashing around in there until someone heard him and dragged him out

>>212456005
That’s just gandolfini being a depressed degenerate. no, him gaining 50 pounds and struggling to breath isn’t in the script

>>212456057
Whoever mixed the sound could've suppressed Tony's breathing and the disgusting sounds he makes when he eats. They chose not to in order to emphasize how much more of a gross primitive animal Tony has turned into

>>212456135
Nice headcanon

>>212456135
I didn't really notice the whole breathing thing until the episode after he was shot, I always thought it was due to him still on the mend after he got home from the hospital.

>>212456057
:/

I dont care for Dons character type, hes handsome, suave and very successful, almost a mary sue type
at least Tony is fat and shows him being a legit dumbass, way more relatable

>>212456057
him degrading has nothing to do with getting fat you mongoloid. stop with the baiting already its embarrassing

>>212456249
Really dumb post. Tony surprise being shot and foils assassination attempts like he’s some kind of Superman, he never loses and always wins arguments even though he’s never said anything clever. Don on the other hand is a complete and total fraud who is constantly sabotages himself and makes massive personal and professional mistakes

>>212456347
survives*

>>212456347
>Don on the other hand is a complete and total fraud who is constantly sabotages himself and makes massive personal and professional mistakes
he is literally self insert masturbation fantasy of the jew who wrote the crap. Yes he makes mistakes but he suffers no consequences. Tony at least dies in the end. Don ends up as a king

>>212442706
He's literally every /pol/fag incarnate

>>212456403
Wrong again. Don cheats on his wife and gets divorced. Tony cheats on his wife and the wife stays. Tony literally never faces any consequences for anything, everything works out hunky dory. Imagine Tony becoming a grunt and working his way back up to the top. I can’t because it never happened. It happened to Don

>>212442622 (OP)
>>212442706
what about that kid who pooped in the shower because his dad was a fag? That's some pretty good character development desu.

>>212456457
>Don cheats on his wife and gets divorced.
>oh nooo my beautiful young wife left me so I replaced her with another younger and even more beautiful one ...ughhhh the suffering

>>212456457
Tony had to kill his own fucking cousin, what did Don do that was even close to that?

>>212456539
he smoked weed once

>>212456539
Don causes his brother to commit suicide within the first few episodes. It’s clear you just don’t know what’s what

>>212456457
Tony's behavior alienates the entirety of his crew and gets his whole operation completely dismantled, before he's shot to death in front of his family, who all hate him to varying degrees

>>212456599
>before he's shot to death in front of his family
never happened schizo

>>212442622 (OP)
Niles Crane

>You know who had an arc? Those two leads on Nip/Tuck.

>>212456599
>Tony’s arc requires headcanon
Loving every laugh

They should have had Melfi tell Tony about the rape.
There. I said it.

>>212458518
Yeah one of the things I always was frustrated about with the show, I understand the point they were trying to make with it though

>>212457340
Yes it did :)

>>212458574
>>212458518
The problem is that Melfi is completely redundant after that. Tony has cured his panic attacks, and she doesn’t need Tony as a “guard dog.” Yet the tedious therapy scenes go on and on. And the Melfi gets her own tedious therapy scenes. It’s just blah

>>212458518
Tony would always use that favor against her to get anything he wanted.

>>212448482
I'll bite, redpill me anon

So Ralphie killed a whore and allegedly burned down a stable and people call him "the devil" or "true evil" but Tony and Paulie literally do way worse stuff. Paulie kills an old lady just to steal her money. Tony causes a gambling addict to relapse and lose all his money, his house and family.

>>212459509
They're all really repugnant people, yeah

Also Ralphie definitely killed that horse

>>212459509
Ralphie wasn’t more evil but he was definitely unhinged and reckless. Murdering the stripper and leaving her corpse in the badabing parking lot wasnt just “disrespectful to da bing,” it was foolish. You don’t shit where you eat. Ralphie had it coming because he was a liability

>>212442622 (OP)
it's funny that he nearly got cucked by a priest

dexter seasons 1-4
don draper
walter white
saul goodman
omar

>>212442730
go somewhere you indian ESL retard

>>212459216
he manipulated her like crazy regardless, she should have told him.

breaking bad and better caul saul were fucking mid, but it made reddit midwits feel like they were watching premium television

>>212459470
the last episode is "from tony's perspective". at multiple points there are strange cuts when he and the viewer "see" his literal immediate future, as well as one of the potential endings for him.
this happens when he goes and sees janice in her giant empty house, moving on after bobby's death and finally becoming her mother. then, again, when he goes to see junior rotting, confused and alone in a nursing home. even though he's "won" and "gotten away with it", he knows deep down he'll end up dead, in jail or alone.

in the final scene his paranoia is on full display and the cinematography highlights it - it focuses on the member's only jacket guy because tony is focused on him, not because he's acting particularly suspicious. tony's favourite scene from his favourite movie is when michael goes to the bathroom to retrieve a gun to kill some other gangsters. when member's only guy goes to the bathroom, that scene is playing in tony's head as his anxiety heightens and he expects death any second.

really, he may or may not die in that moment - it's deliberately ambiguous and david chase has gone to great pains to never confirm it either way - if he did die, you might think he'd have said at one point in the years since, wouldn't you? but even if tony survives, he already considers himself on borrowed time, a dead man walking - almost a fate worse than death in itself

>>212457372
Based Frasier-chad. Also correct.

>>212461473
One of my favorite things about the ending is that Paulie is the only one left standing, undoubtedly the most incompetent and least level-headed out of everyone in that glorified crew. And the scene at Satriale's is great because it's just Tony and Paulie, and Paulie is the absolute last person Tony would want to be stuck with in the end.

>>212461154
Dexter was seriously so good. I thought as good as mad men and breaking bad for a while. But holy shit it just gets so bad, and the final season is just awful. And when you think it can get worse they do a revival season even worse than the final season. Fuck me

>>212457372
>>212461629
Niles gets ruined as a character when they pair him with daphne

>>212459509
murdering a stupid, innocent young girl (and your own unborn child) because she lightly slapped you is pretty evil, anon

>>212462101
I disagree. He chills out so much it's great. Island Niles is fantastic. And I like seeing him finally happy.

>>212462160
He’s a comic relief character that stops being funny: Pointless.

>>212458633
>ugh, ANOTHER therapy scene? reddit told me this show was about epic badass mobsters saying gabagool and shooting each other!

>>212462256
>Ugh why all the talking? Can't Tony just kill somebody already? Those sigma grindset tiktoks lied to me about what this show is.

>season 1: corrupt politician trying to be a gangster
>season 2: gangster pretending to be a politician
>season 3: full out gangster
>season 4: gangster who ate a giant humble pie

>>212442622 (OP)
Breaking bad is better

>>212458386
Except for his violent death just being implied instead of shown explicitly, its absolutely true that Tony's crew is largely killed, the ones remaining don't trust him, and a survivor went to the feds. If he's not killed in the diner, he's well and truly fucked

>>212457372
, Jung specialist.

>>212450560
Lmfao @ don Draper and mad men desperately trying to ape sopranos… Ruth fisher is a significantly better character on a better show

>>212454671
Agreed.

>>212462210
Absolutely deranged opinion. I could understand if you never liked Frasier, but to imply Niles was funny and then stopped being funny is idiotic when episodes like High Holidays and pic related are in the final season.

>>212442622 (OP)
>Know Italian girl
>think she is into me, asked for my number on Insta
>I don't feel that way about her
Am I retarded /tv/? Is it wrong for me to friend zone her as I'm not really attracted to her?

>>212462130
>implying the kid was his
anon pls

>>212465798
>didn't feel attracted to a girl and friendzoned her
Now you know how it feels

>>212465798
You got anyone or any prospects, if not, why not go for it?

>>212442694
>Saul Goodman
i wouldve just loved a lawyer drama with Bob Odenkirk. hated all the cartel horseshit