Thread 212595975

Can we talk about how fucking stupid this line is, please?

The statement on its face is that people who act decently because they believe that there is a punishment for sin or a reward for virtue, are essentially acting selfishly and thus are bad people. But left unexamined is what the alternative is. Are you supposed to magically know what "decent" means, and then act that way for no reason, with no expectation that virtue is rewarded and sin punished? Is being a sucker mandatory to be a good person?

I've never understood this because it's clearly the sort of thing a fedora would say, except that fedoras aren't supposed to believe in objective morality. But this only makes sense at all if you DO believe in objective morality. Decency can't be subjective, or else it's just personal preference, maybe I think I'm still being decent if I cannibalize someone politely. So it's got to be objective, but objective morality implies some sort of arbiter of morality, which in term implies judgement, and if there's judgement, then it's entirely rational to behave morally to avoid punishment and to gain reward.

Where did this meme of atheists being smart come from?

Shut up bitch

>>212595975 (OP)
Atheists being smart, mostly.

>>212595975 (OP)
>he fell for the kike propaganda

>>212595975 (OP)
>but objective morality implies some sort of arbiter of morality
Yes it's called society. It is objective because it's a consensus that exists regardless of your own subjective opinions or beliefs. You are welcome

>>212596040
No, that can't be right, they're mostly retarded, for example they think that this kind of nonsense is smart.

>>212596013
No, I do not think I will. Maybe you could answer the question?

>>212596013
kek, gottem

>>212595975 (OP)
>Are you supposed to magically know what "decent" means,

Yeah, actually. People all over the world figured out that murder, theft, rape etc were bad without the jewish space zombie telling them.

>>212596296
But that's obviously not true, because there is not one society, but many, and their standards of decency differ strongly in as small an area as individual households.

Moreover, what if society believes in divine reward? Does it become right then, because more people believe it? That does not seem like a cogent position, because that would mean that it's okay to act in expectation of reward if the people around you tell you it's okay. That's nonsensical.

No, I am afraid I must reject your offer of welcoming, you have provided me with no useful answers.

>>212596405
>Yeah, actually. People all over the world figured out that murder, theft, rape etc were bad without the jewish space zombie telling them.
Not really, europe was genocidal before christianity, so was America, Africa, China, honestly any place in the world. christian morality was a revolution. Similar ones happened across the world but it's irrelevant.

>>212596405
No they did not? What on Earth are you talking about? A great portion of the world today still considers rape to be a perfectly normal part of life, murder, revenge and honor killings, etc. are still commonplace across the globe.

You are simply upset that you live in a society whose laws are totally inseperable from a religious morality that you seem to wish weren't a religious morality.

>fedoras aren't supposed to believe in objective morality
Morality is subjective however my personal sense of morality is the correct one. Literally everyone believes this too. It's why 6 million sects of christianity exist who all can't agree on the meaning of their own scripture. This conversation is trite.

>>212596511
Nigger, all of those places had laws against theft and murder long before Jesus showed up.

>>212596551
>Nigger, all of those places had laws against theft and murder long before Jesus showed up.
You're talking about enforcing order within civilized society, I'm talking about evil of taking life outside of it.

>>212596541
>What on Earth are you talking about?
History. Learn some.

> A great portion of the world today still considers rape to be a perfectly normal part of life, murder, revenge and honor killings, etc.
As did some Christians not very long ago.

>>212596580
Now you're arguing semantics.

>>212595975 (OP)
You can deduce basic standards of morality in terms of what is fair and reasonable to those around you. There doesn't have to be a arbiter who rewards and punishes for this to hold true.

>>212596637
I'm talking about roman thriumphs and precolumbian human sacrifices, before Christ slaughtering others wasn't that much of a deal

>>212596545
Trvke

>>212596672
And Christians killed plenty of people, including other Christians, in the name of God.

Pagan cultures had their own morality like
the "Seven Sages of Greece," who developed ethical codes emphasizing moderation, truthfulness, and good deeds.
Stoic philosophers like Cato emphasized virtue, duty, and self-control in Rome.

>>212595975 (OP)
you are thinking too much about some slops. just turn off your brain and consume.

>>212596784
>And Christians killed plenty of people, including other Christians, in the name of God.
Our God is an awesome God.

>Stoic philosophers like Cato emphasized virtue, duty, and self-control in Rome.

No denying that, German philisopher cunt saw the value in Christianity and tried to divide the good rules from the religious spiritual order.
But he failed because people's hearts yearn for deity.

The Bible basically says
>If you do good because you think doing good will get you into heaven, you won't get into heaven
Which is kinda funny because it's knowledge you cannot unlearn. As soon as you learn what is considered good and the idea of being good gets you into heaven you are immediately fucked.

tl;dr you should be good because being good is positive, you should be good regardless of a chance of reward, as per the Bible.

>>212596425
There is no right or wrong, only popular opinion. This exists in your religion as well. See how far the various Christian faiths have changed over the centuries. As they are today, they would be unrecognizable from when they first started. A social more shifts this way, a trend shifts that way, all of a sudden even the goddamn Catholics are fraternizing with faggots.
Everything is subjective. There's no ground to stand on, and only sky above.

>>212596866
>As soon as you learn what is considered good and the idea of being good gets you into heaven you are immediately fucked.
The point is for people to be good, not for you to go to heaven

>>212595975 (OP)
Epistemology and ontology aren't the same thing.

>>212595975 (OP)
>I've never understood this because it's clearly the sort of thing a fedora would say, except that fedoras aren't supposed to believe in objective morality.
Which is the paradox of Dawkins atheism and part of why he and people like him basically ruined atheism. He's incapable of thinking outside of, or even realizing he's thinking within, the box of catholic logic he was raised within. He doesn't try to develop his own ideals or understanding of morality outside of Catholicism, just takes them as a given despite hating their source and everything they're based on.
So when he takes god out of the equation he ends up with this dumb fedora shit where either nothing makes sense and you need cognitive dissonance or everyone becomes a depressed amoral nihilist and assumes it's the only logical conclusion.

All that said, your understanding of subjective morality seems rather underdeveloped.

What never gets mentioned in these discussions is the implicit understanding in Christianity that humans are not “inherently good” but everything good about what we are comes from God, either from being made in His image or from receiving His Grace.
All humans are tainted by original sin and tempted by Satan and sin due to our earthly natures. In Christianity there is no good without God, and being Godly is part of being a good person.

>>212595975 (OP)
You didn't understand Rust as a character and you didn't understand his character arc.

His pessimism and nihilism is a response to his life circumstances. His world views (like the antinatalist rant) are tuned to the extreme because it is not what he truly believes, but an attempt to cope by exaggerating everything negative in order to be, in hopes, proven wrong. He starts his arc by being a literal and metaphorical "non-believer" and he ends his arc by not only facing mystical force, but fighting it and defeating it.

>>212595975 (OP)
it's a form of philosophical suicide.
Instead of independently reasoning and forming your own moral framework, you turn off your brain and replace thinking with preformed ideas.
And then you "live" in a sort of "non-living" by mechanically practicing to uphold the framework.
The deception comes with the idea that it doesn't matter because it's a "good" framework that any "good" person couldn't argue with.
But the issue is, a truly "good" framework shouldn't require someone to have to give up their freedom to reason and truly "live".

>>212596850
>Our God is an awesome God.
Great response, kid.

>>212596296
no, morality is not based on consensus. wrong is wrong, even if everyone does it. right is right, even if nobody does it.

>>212596866
>Cant into intention
The point is doing good under the sole condition it will be advantageous for me in the future and Thats the only reason I do “good” is obviously not good. You can be conscious of theological concepts like divine reward and still engage in virtue in your day to day life because your intentions are selfless and sincere. It has nothing to do with knowledge.

>I can't make decisions for myself
classic christcuck

>>212595975 (OP)
>Can we talk about how fucking stupid this line is, please?
Marty gave the perfect comeback at the end of that same scene:
>for a guy who sees no point in existence, you sure fret about it an awful lot
it's all BS from rust, and marty knows it

>>212595975 (OP)
evangelicals are stupid though. they work and pray for the end of the world because they're suffering by their own stupidity.

>>212595975 (OP)
Nietzsche opened my eyes to this back when I was Hitchens atheist. Every response to you, particularly contentious responses, are assuming a value system.
At least evil atheists like Soros understand this and embrace the nihilistic insanity (radical fallibility) instead of being barnacles on Christianity.

>>212598079
>assuming a value system.
because humans operate on a value system, as well as jewish billionaires

Time is a flat toddler

>>212595975 (OP)
you could say "if the only thing keeping a person from breaking the law is the threat of punishment, then they're a piece of shit" but we still recognize that criminal laws are effective and good.

Also, religion helped enforce things like monogamy and commitment. Being a promiscuous single mother might not make a woman a "piece of shit" but it is a very bad thing for society. The lack of religion is one of the problems with modern society and I say that as an atheist (though I wish I were religious)

>Are you supposed to magically know what "decent" means, and then act that way for no reason, with no expectation that virtue is rewarded and sin punished?
Yes. You're a social animal. You evolved concepts like guilt, altruism and empathy. If you don't know how to be "decent" you are literally defective.

>>212598783
Naturalistic fallacy/is-ought problem. And that's even before determining the aim and direction of guilt, altruism, and empathy.

>>212598783
define "decent"

>>212596040
Atheists are retarded. Agnostic I can understand, but atheists are the biggest retards ever

>>212597012
The problem with your rambling celebrity obsessed nonsense is Catholicism didn’t invent “morality,” just claims to.

>>212597606
>this is all pointless and performative
>lmao kill urself nerd

Yeah great response.

>>212595975 (OP)
aren't theswe people tent revival christians?
Don't those guys believe that you are saved purely by faith and the grace of god, and that your behavior on earth has absolutely no bearing on whether or not you go to heaven?

>>212597606
marty always seethed because rust reminded him how much of a shit person he was. Especially the very ironic Family Man™ preaching he always did.

>>212599757
Rust? wasn't he raped?

>>212595975 (OP)
this show sucks.

>>212595975 (OP)
Whether someone refrains from murder because they're "decent" or because they don't want to go to hell, the person who is not murdered will be pretty happy about it. I can't know whether everyone else is an amoral psychopath in their thoughts and it's not my problem. It is my problem if they act like it. Whatever promotes good behaviour is good, regardless of what motivates it.

>>212598673
Sure, if you think the only reason laws/penalties exist is to dissuade breaking/incurring them.

The reality is law exists for many reasons, greatest of which is to ensure stability by ensuring “justice” is served by something other than how many angry people you can get together with pitchforks and torches.

>>212595975 (OP)
If religion can get pieces of shit to do good works, how is that a knock against it?

"If you're only kind to get something out of it, you're not actually kind." How is this controversial?

>>212599137
>>212599162
Sociopaths really will bend over backward to pretend they aren't broken.

Assuming you aren't being obtuse, I'll answer. Countless generations of natural selection have ensured that a functioning homo sapiens feels guilt when it harms others, feels an impulse to help others in need, and is generally inclined to be kind and cooperate with other members of it's species. From a pragmatic standpoint this is because the odds of survival and replication improve dramatically given these behaviors.

>>212600287
I don't care. If someone is kind to me, that's a positive. How is this controversial?

>>212600371
Ah, you're too stupid to actually think, got it.

>>212600245
Because it gets shitty people to pass on their genes for the promise of a divine reward, and eventually those genes will end up in someone who doesn’t buy the bullshit

love this kino

rust still mindfucking retarded christcucks to this day

>>212600418
The subhuman reveals his filthy innards. I recognize your intellectual inferiority, like you wanted.

>>212600346
>feels guilt when it harms others, feels an impulse to help others in need, and is generally inclined to be kind and cooperate with other members of it's species
all those things depend on the era and area you are born in

>>212600418
>>212600435
aaand here they come

>>212600459
>all those things depend on the era and area you are born in
No they don't. Go back to your containment board, we know what you are.

>>212595975 (OP)
Moral law is an invention of mankind for the disenfranchisement of the powerful in favor of the weak. Historical law subverts it at every turn. A moral view can never be proven right or wrong by any ultimate test. A man falling dead in a duel is not thought thereby to be proven in error as to his views. His very involvement in such a trial gives evidence of a new and broader view. The willingness of the principals to forgo further argument as the triviality which it in fact is and to petition directly the chambers of the historical absolute clearly indicates of how little moment are the opinions and of what great moment the divergences thereof. For the argument is indeed trivial, but not so the separate wills thereby made manifest.

>discord trannies find the thread
>thread goes from civil discussion to LE CHRISTKEKS MAD in an instant
Palestine and Iran losing really did a number on their brain

>>212600487
yes they do. History didn't begin the year you were born in, underage tourist.

Moral relativism is the literal most jewish psyop of all fucking time and everyone who pushes it should be shot in the head

>>212600638
What a relative view

>>212595975 (OP)
But the image is 100% right. If you only behave morally because you think a magic man will burn you for eternity you aren't a moral person. It's implying if you ever found out there was no god you'd just go out murdering and raping and stealing constantly. Which is pure cope.

>>212599255
>Catholicism didn’t invent “morality,” just claims to.
It didn't invent the concept of rape, theft and murder being bad, but if you think that the logic behind modern western morality isn't based heavily on christian ideas of what makes things right and wrong then you've never examined it past a surface level.
Many groups come to conclusions that a lot of the same things are wrong, but the logic by which they arrive at those conclusiona varies heavily. The problem with a ton of modern atheists is they never realize that they're operating under christian logic and so they never develop any other logic of their own.

I'm also not christian or trying to promote christianity in any way, so no that's not what this is about.

>>212600616
dude the show is older than discord trannies
people have been btfoing christcucks a long time
cope

>>212600692
Between a society of amoral people and a society of amoral people cowed into good behaviour by the threat of punishment, you'd choose the latter.

>>212600808
discord trannies love the show, though. they also have no idea about humanity, history, philosophy or politics
dilate

>>212600856
Those aren't the only two options, anon.

>>212600856
Nobody, when they found out there isn't a god, would do those things. It's pure cope. Because they can all go out and do that same shit now with the get out of hell free card that is Jesus. It's not holding anyone accountable for shit. It's just another way believers use to gaslight themselves into thinking they're better people than they are.

>>212595975 (OP)
If the only thing keeping a person decent is so they can brag about being morally superior to a religious person, then this that person a piece of shit, too?

>>212595975 (OP)
you are confusing the particular case of incentives and guidance in general. the alternative to acting based on extrinsic incentives is not acting without any guiding information whatsoever, but to act out of intrinsic motivation (call it moral character in this case)

however the line is idiotic for another reason. and that is that the moral character of the people there wasn't the topic of the discussion. rust is changing the topic to insult peoples character (and making bold assumption that extrinsic incentives are their one and only moral guide, when in reality it is generally just thought of an aide for times of temptation, something that every human struggles with, and rust himself succumbs to temptation later).

>>212600936
Yes, that guy you made up is a piece of shit.

atheists see how religion distills people with honor, goodwill, charity, love and happiness and then go
>YEAH WELL BUT WHAT IF THERE'S NO GOD THEN ALL THOSE GOOD THINGS WOULDN'T COUNT.....SOMEHOW....

it's like thinking strippers are good people because they are nice to customers
it is a simpleton way of thinking

also, japanese don't believe in that heaven and hell stuff yet they are basically angels. it's about culture and civilization. and keeping you-know-whos out.

Religion serves as an organizing force in society, and for that purpose it can be useful, even now, but pretending that the moral fabric of society at large resting on supernatural threats/promise of supernatural reward is a good thing is just moronic.

>>212595975 (OP)
This really triggered you sanctimonious religioniggers, huh?

>>212600899
No, but if I can even slightly improve the ratio of good to bad behaviour by spreading an idea of divine punishment, that doesn't strike me as a bad idea.

>>212600766
You’re just making the mistake of thinking because Catholicism has existed for a long time that it’s the source of morality. Modern western morality is mostly from Hume and Kant, as reformation era theology resulted in shit like the 30 year war and the Spanish Inquisition. The 18th century philosophers went beyond just saying things are bad and went into why.

And it’s funny you’d accuse anyone else of not going beyond surface level

>>212601034
>also, japanese don't believe in that heaven and hell stuff yet they are basically angels
Nigger what? I'm not arguing that you need heaven and hell for people to be good, but saying the Japanese are basically angels is insane.
They're the most bloodthirsty motherfuckers in Asia and only started keeping it in check because we nuked them twice.

>>212601009
>atheists see how religion distills people with honor, goodwill, charity, love and happiness

These "OP tells an LLM to pretend that it's a 19-year-old philosophy 101 student who's flunking" threads are so tiresome.

>>212600856
A society of amoral people wouldn’t be a society. All definitions of morality, virtue, etc, are down to what allows a society to function at all.

>>212596511
This is bait, right?

>>212601009
It actually just distills in the believers that’s being believers makes them those things

>>212601197
No, "fighting with your neighbours" is genocide now.

>>212595975 (OP)
>I've never understood this because it's clearly the sort of thing a fedora would say,
>except that fedoras aren't supposed to believe in objective morality.
says who?
>But this only makes sense at all if you DO believe in objective morality. Decency can't be subjective, or else it's just personal preference
false dichotomy, morality need not be wholly objective or wholly subjective, assuming the meaning of those terms can even be precisely given in a way that is satisfactory in this context

>, maybe I think I'm still being decent if I cannibalize someone politely. So it's got to be objective, but objective morality implies some sort of arbiter of morality,
no it doesnt

> which in term implies judgement,
no it doesnt

>and if there's judgement, then it's entirely rational to behave morally to avoid punishment and to gain reward.
the original claim was never that its not rational, it was that if thats the only reason for someone to act morally then the moral character of the person in question is bad. therefore you completely missed the point

try to read a book you stupid gorilla nigger

>he mocks religion for being imaginary but gets his morals from tv show characters, tranime and /pol/

>>212601153
>atheist considers good character attributes "trash"
>also calls christians psychopaths
lol the projection

>>212601197
slavery was considered moral
honor killings were considered moral
raping the losers ' women was considered moral
tossing kids into rivers for a good harvest was considered moral

>morality comes from "god"
Morals long preceded organized religions by tens of thousands of years.
All your purpose and morality comes from within you, if you're not an NPC who sold off these faculties to a bunch of Middle-Eastern merchants.
All human morals are established by men, including the ones in your bible. The ones I follow just don't have the Jewish fairy tale aspect to it.
Even animals have certain morals that allow them to survive and cooperate in a group, i.e. helping each other when in danger and sharing food.
If you claim that morality (i.e. objectively good behavior) comes from your "god", then here's how you prove it:
1. Prove your "god" exists
2. Prove your "god" is benevolent enough to follow his moral code, and
3. Prove your "god" is the author of said moral code, not the men who actually wrote them.
Don't worry, you'll never get past step 1.

>>212600922
No one has ever gotten conclusive proof of the absence of objective morality.

There’s also the objective facts about cosa nostra initiations being built around Catholicism and performing acts that would irrevocably damn a person to hell without any possibility of forgiveness, to ensure loyalty is only to the family.

>>212601230
maybe in some strawman atheist scenario
also atheists believe themselves smart by virtue of not believing when they are some of the dumbest retards out there

>>212601132
they have very low crime rates
their passport is accepted basically everywhere
everyone likes them
>we are le good guys for irradiating people
cope

>>212601297
>>atheist considers good character attributes "trash"
I didn't call those attributes trash. Your opinion is. Look at the world. Most of then are religious and yet make up most of the prison population, third world shitholes, etc. Religion isn't giving anyone those qualities you listed. Most of the world has a religion and still lacks all those. What you're describing are the attitudes and values of cushy, western effeminates.

>>212601302
see
>>212601297

>>212601120
Kant is gay and your post proves you havent read

>>212595975 (OP)
lol, merely NOT believing in god makes them smarter than ANY religitard automatically.

Where do you get off pretending the faithful aren't fucking retards? God? The "creator"? Heaven and hell?? lol
LMAO actually

I do think you can get a good barometer of the IQ level of this place in the way that every single thread like this devolves into hyperbolic atheism+ strawman vs. hyperbolic christcuck strawman with both shrieking about how the worst possible version of the other guy is worse than the worst possible version of their guy

>>212601376
>he mocks atheism for being amoral but gets his morals from an ancient kike (or other shitskin) book

>>212601324
>No one has ever gotten conclusive proof of the absence of objective morality.
No one has given conclusive evidence bigfoot isn't a transvestite alien from alpha centauri either. Does that mean we should believe it? You're doing it ass backwards. You need a reason TO believe something. Not just believing in whatever has not been disproven. I can make up a million things you could never prove to be wrong. Does that mean you should buy it? Or would you wait until you were given a reason to believe it?

>>212601339
Yet you are here and still espouse your moral superiority than the rest of us. Where does such a notion come from but from belief?

>>212601397
Jew

>>212601120
Kant was strongly influenced by his Northern European Protestantism.
The Categorical Imperative is implicitly reliant on an expectation of everyone being 'equal before God', a major early Protestant tenet.

>>212595975 (OP)
yeah it is stupid but it came out at a time that this stuff was more 'cool' to believe. and his last line, 'that person isa piece of shit' is exactly the point. if Rust really paid any attention when reading the bible(if he did at all) he'd know thats the very nature of humanity. we have knowledge of the nature of good and evil. we are evil whether we wish to be or not, overcoming evil is hard. no doubt people buy into religion as a cope, to mask their faults, to control others, etc etc, that doesnt mean faith itself is "wrong" for improving someones life and thus making the lives of others around said person better. Rust is still an interesting character however because from our lense in the future we can compare him to midwit athiest fedora tippers who express similarly cringe phrases like this one. but what he and marty are up against is a true evil, and the conclusion i get from this show is the same one i get in real life. the world is full of so much evil. so much suffering. one man cannot take it on alone, rust realizes this at the end.

>>212596296
>morality is objective bro, it changes depending on the people you ask

>>212601366
>backpedaling this hard
ahahah

>>212601397
lol seething so hard he replied to another guy

>>212601426
dude you're brown yourself
lol

>>212601457
>n-no u...

>>212601120
>Modern western morality is mostly from Hume and Kant
Among scholars and the like yes, among the average westerner not really. And that's who I'm talking about.
>as reformation era theology resulted in shit like the 30 year war and the Spanish Inquisition.
And shit like that still happens, because most people still base their moral logic on watered down theology. Americans alone have been tricked en masse into supporting bullshit wars using simplified morality tons of times in the past century. The people supporting Korea and Vietnam weren't basing their ideals on the logic of said 18th century philosophers.

>>212601581
>u le backpedal
No, I did not. Your concession is accepted.

>>212600346
>>212600487
How can decent average Norse vikings have such a strongly different morality system from decent average modern Norwegians, and yet morality be obvious?

>>212595975 (OP)
Rust is actually a classical theologian, Aquinas says Heaven is not eating cake and jerking of all day but instead knowing the mind of God directly.

>>212601581
You’re not exactly showing the traits you claim are inherently true about religious people.

>>212601527
>The Categorical Imperative is implicitly reliant on an expectation of everyone being 'equal before God', a major early Protestant tenet.

its not. the relevant ways in which moral subjects are assumed equal are explicitly discussed (dignity -- freedom and rationality)

>>212595975 (OP)
Rust is just taking Matthew chapter 6 to an atheistic conclusion. In that chapter Jesus says that people who receive rewards for their good deeds in life will not receive rewards in heaven. The point being that doing things just for earthly rewards doesn't make a person good. Rust goes further and suggests that doing things for a heavenly reward doesn't make a person good either. Good people do the right thing because it is the right thing.

>>212601811
I'm gonna head the other guy off
>b-b-b-b-but muh what does "right" mean????

>>212601132
Killing chinks doesn’t really count as “bloodthirsty.”

>>212601752
>everyone has equal dignity
Again, this is reliant on believing that some people aren't just born greater than others and deserve to wield power for it.
The non-Christian Aristotle argued that some people are born slaves and should be happy with their lot in life because they were never capable of going farther, while others are born to a superior rank.
The Norse had a legend about Heimdall going to a variety of homes and being treated with different levels of hospitality and cursing or rewarding different families to forever have bloodlines in certain social castes (slave, middle, noble, etc.). This turned social divisions into something associated with bloodline debt or honor, so some were born lesser or greater than others.
This ties into the idea that all people are deserving of equal respect to their right to freedom, when that is again, reliant on the early Protestant focus on all people being God's equally loved and apportioned children.

"All men are equal" is probably the idea that's done the most damage in the entire history of the world

This whole discussion is hilarious to me. What's so moral about judging a person's motives?

>>212602036
Motives are literally the primary thing by which any man should be judged. Are you stupid?

Its not that complicated. Everybody knows killing and harming people is bad and if you are not wicked in the head you are against those things. I mean do you want to rape and murder but don't do so because god will punish you? And btw people that predisposed to crime will do so even if they religious. Mafia would kill somebody, sell dope or whatever and they all believe in god.

>>212595975 (OP)
looks like OP is a piece of shit

>>212602080
>literally
haha

>>212602115
>Everybody knows killing and harming people is bad
Why are muslim africans more violent than christian africans?

>>212595975 (OP)
>Where did this meme of atheists being smart come from?
smart people form an opinion based on evidence and knowledge.

faith is for the unintelligent sheep who dont ask questions

>>212602173
It's actually one of those bell curve type things, anon. On the extreme low end, and on the extreme high end, you have "the only explanation is god."

>>212602223
>muh imaginary friend real cuz bell curve maymay XD
1/10

>>212596296
>lynch mobs are objectively moral

>>212602223
>le midwit meme cope

>>212602265
>>212602271
I mean, it's true. You can pretend it's not, but you're just giving away your ignorance on the subject.

>>212601686
Can't argue with atheists with kid gloves on anon.

>>212602171
NTA but cutting off the hands of scammers is based
being a christcuck isn't necessarily the most moral way of handling things

>>212602223
your brain is like the memory of a brain

>>212602359
you're showing your lack of humility. at the end of the day the faithful will wish you well and hope you find God, and the unfaithful and godless will spite and mock the faithful. it goes to show the different moral characters. if you'd rather live in Sodom that is your choice, you cannot claim you were tricked or forced, nor that we did not warn you.

>>212602405
Sure thing, anon. Couldn't be that I'm a scholar on the subject, or anything. Not even religious, particularly, but materialism is flat out nothing but midwit cope at this point, and there's no sound argument against that position.

>>212602171
>Why are muslim africans more violent than christian africans?
Long story short Islam has more gas in the tank that christianity. They just generally more passionary about it. Thats why they have more children also. And its an easier, more advanced brainwashing than christianity. "Allah is the god, Muhammad is the prophet, two muslims to witness conversion and its forever" way more than Trinity. You trying to find answers in the realm of spiritual, but they are way more simple and "earthly" than that.

>>212595975 (OP)
>Are you supposed to magically know what "decent" means
No many humans have this thing called 'empathy' and it helps us understand what makes others feel good or bad. We use this sense to judge and then I guess luckily someone decided to make up some retarded fairy tale for the rest of you NPCs that lack this sense to help you do the right thing too. You understand that you are literal cattle, right? Worth absolutely nothing to humanity, just an animal that needs to be corralled and controlled. Stupid fucking creature.

>>212595975 (OP)
Any deity that has to use an “or else” to garner belief is a shitty deity. Actual behavior not withstanding.

>>212602471
Who would you recommending reading on why materialism is false?

>>212595975 (OP)
ignoring the whole debate going on, he comes around somewhat in the end. It's called a character arc

>>212602481
way less complicated than Trinity*

>>212596296
Haha you think you're above the NPCs but you're just another type of NPC.

>>212602481
>more advanced brainwashing than christianity
so what seperates our modern material world from the so called brainwashing of islam or christanity? why is godlessness not brainwashing itself? and i think christianity has more "gas in the tank" because it doesnt require you kill the nonbeliever, but try to help them instead. if people are naturally good without religion, like many claim, then they will naturally gravitate towards Christ more than muhammed, because one mostly produces good, and less suffering in the world, while the other does not. I've never heard of muslim or jewish missionaires who go to the poorest shittiest places on earth to help people get clean drinking water

>>212601970
It is in no way ( other than possibly historially) reliant on that belief, neither explicitly nor implicitly, and has other roots from which it is validly and explicitly derived, which would be obvious to you if youd care to learn what dignity means here and how this particular meaning relates to the rest of Kantian ethics.

>>212595975 (OP)
The keyword here is "only".
You can be religious and be a good person because you like being a good person but you also want to go to heaven.

But religious people are dumb anyway so I dont know.

>>212596296
Aggregation of subjectivity does not make it objective, retard.
Plus, if consensus is objective, then OP pic is wrong, because the consensus is that believing in heavenly rewards doesn't make you a bad person.
You are pathetic for letting the nebulous and inorganic mob that is society define not only your beliefs but your reality.
In conclusion, you are gay.

>>212602536
Long time I've seen this show but I was he made his peace with his daughter's death and regained a semblance of faith or dropped the overtly cynical fedora act.

>>212602513
Thanks for proving my point.
>>212602536
this.

>>212601504
lol, Judaism IS a religion. You're calling me jewish for not believing. See? You're stupid. You just keep proving it.

>>212602666
>dropped the overtly cynical fedora act.
it's more this, he doesn't exactly become a man of faith (as far as we see)

also nice satan get

>>212600346
You're legit being obtuse, but not in a bad way, you just need to read or live more. You take too much of your life for granted.
Try Hume or Nietzsche, both (arguably ) atheists so you won't chafe reading them

>>212602607
Doctor Dawkins debunked christianity years ago kiddo

>>212602751
1/10 ragebait

>>212602506
I'm not gonna quote sources to you, dummy, especially when it's that obvious that your question is in bad faith. At best I'll throw some breadcrumbs at your face, does that sound alright?

>>212602843
But he did. The Abrahamic god has been conclusively debunked for ages. Even if there was a god, it cannot and is not that one. That's a fairytale as much as Zeus and the other myths. People just continue to believe and cope.

>>212602885
cool. Christians bring good into the world, muslims dont and jews dont.

>>212601439
Bigfoot isn’t supposed to be the source of objective morality, but thanks for comparing skydaddy to a man in a suit for me.

>>212600346
This is clearly wrong, even very advanced societies could be very cruel and didn't see this cruelty as immoral. The advent of Christianity clearly brought about a moral revolution of which today's atheist humanists are the inheritors, no matter how much you want to deny it. Go explain to a Roman how the slaves in his latifundium are as human as he is or why a Spartan shouldn't hunt helots for sport. I don't think either of them were a different breed of Homo Sapiens especially inclined to dehumanizing other people.

>>212602885
How did he debunk Christianity? Let me guess
>Well everyone in the world doesn't get everything they want all the time and sometimes bad things happen to innocent children therefore since God is a big meanie head he doesn't exist!

>>212602223
>the only explanation must be god
Meaning can only be derived from finitude my man, looking at eternity for meaning is impossible.

>>212602686
This proves you're either jewish or retarded lol

>god is DEBUNKED
this is such a funny one I can't believe you guys are taking the bait

I'm by no means Christian but I appreciate that it brought these views to the "mainstream"

However I feel like it's sort of an evolutionary consequence in a way, killing fellow humans does not benefit the species as a whole, unless they are a problem to the whole which is basically what we call the death penalty

>>212602885
Sorry life isn't like your Dora the explorer episode bud. Sorry your uncle fondled you

>>212602871
Lol I didn't ask you to quote sources. I asked you to recommend some books. There's nothing "bad faith" about asking for recommendations from someone who claims to be a "scholar" on a subject. It was a genuine question. Although it's obvious now that you don't actually know anything.

>>212603069
Mm, about the response I expected. I just don't respond to demands from spergy retards online, anon. I guess I'll have to deny you even the breadcrumbs. Good luck!

>>212602990
So what?
>>212603005
Anyone can. It's been debunked for hundreds of years by now. No firmament, not flat, not made in 6 days, no Adam and Eve, wrong order of creation, no evidence of Jesus, no such thing as virgin births, etc.

It's as real as Greek myths or Aesop's fables. Like I said even if there was a god somewhere, it's not the Abrahamic one. That one can be conclusively debunked. I think almost every god can be outside of some vague deism.

>>212602607
>so what seperates our modern material world from the so called brainwashing of islam or christanity? why is godlessness not brainwashing itself?
Because nobody is giving away free books on Atheism? This is a very neurotic thinking. The lack of brainwashing is not a brainwashing, I don't know what to tell you.
>and i think christianity has more "gas in the tank" because it doesnt require you kill the nonbeliever, but try to help them instead
All of this is dictated by political conjuncture time genetics and place. Back in the day christians was way more serious and confrontational about it obviously.
>I've never heard of muslim or jewish missionaires who go to the poorest shittiest places on earth to help people get clean drinking water
That has everything to do with the people, not religion. Its explicitly europeans who mostly do these things, I think them being christians is secondary to that.

>>212603129
There actually is concrete proof Jesus existed though, and the rest of the cry baby nonsense you brought up is just strawman cope

>>212603129
Read Job so you can get God out of your box.

>>212603186
No, there isn't. But if there was that doesn't get you to "he was god". The Abrahamic god is fiction and debunked. It's time to move on now. I mean really. Talking animals and all the other nonsense. You're a grown man. There comes a point where ya just need to stop playing pretend.

>>212601616
>And shit like that still happens

Oh right I forgot the entire world is the west, I blew myself the fuck out damn.

>>212603263
>No there isn't because I said so *hmph!*

>>212595975 (OP)
It's an incredibly naive way of thinking, and anyone who has to deal with the dregs of humanity like the police does knows that fear of punishment, divine or the law, is what keeps most people in line.

I don't know what's worse between several 4channeler merely acting as christians for ebin lulz circlejerk or ACTUAL christians posting on 4chan (formerly 4channel)

what people think christianity teaches
>good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell

what christianity ACTUALLY teaches
>every human being is a sinner and only gets saved by believing in jesus

>>212603299
But there isn't. If you had any evidence for all that shit you'd have posted it. Or a scholar would have. We'd accept he was real as much as we do any historical figure. Be a little serious. You don't need to continue doubling down and spiting yourself and looking foolish to defend fairytales.

>>212595975 (OP)
>I've never understood this
Because you're retarded. The only thing keeping people from acting like animals are the rules of society, whether it be laws of the state or, prior to that authoritarian rule, the laws of religion.

Even this doesn't prevent factions of society from robbing, raping and murdering, but it keeps the masses in check.

>>212603313
Are you upset by people having different opinions or beliefs?

>>212603186
>Won't elaborate on 95% of that anon's
post
>B-but Jesus was reeeaaal

>>212602327
Damn, just take off all the gloves and murder them for blasphemy then

>>212603387
There's been verifiable archived writings that he existed, from several different scholars regardless of ethnic or religious backgrounds, especially Roman.

>>212603420
Keep it to yourself you inverted fedora

>>212603465
Elaborate on what? The creation story? Adam and Eve? The person is strawmanning the stories to begin with, whats there to elaborate on?

The guy playing like historical jesus isn't confirmed is a false flagging christcuck retard

>>212603483
No, there isn't. "so christians believe in some dude" isn't saying he's real. And Josephus is a forgery. Ya got nothing.

>>212603483
[...]

>>212603504
I'll take that as a yes.

>>212603145
>That has everything to do with the people, not religion. Its explicitly europeans who mostly do these things, I think them being christians is secondary to that.
i actually agree but this is because Christianity naturally adheres to Europeans. Plato and Aristotle both espoused ideas that are found in the Bible before Christianity came. islam could not have started in Europe, the arab/persian world does not serve islam, islam serves it. cultures are the primary component of all history and Europeans believed what we did because of where we come from, our pagan myths fell out of favour because they had served their purpose and a mightier faith had begun to spread in our minds. however none of this is strict. christian africans pass the simplest test, the eye test, for being better people than muslim or shamanistic africans.
>The lack of brainwashing is not a brainwashing
all civilizations require a myth to act as a glue. Without faith, a godless civilization will seek out another glue, another myth, and there is no telling that myth will be better. it is not a coincidence our civilization has gotten worse with the decline in Christianity. It is indisbutable the majority of people in America worship the material. and we base our success on how much money we have, how expensive our car is, or our clothing. we look down on frugality, humility, but this is changing.

>>212603530
the old and new testaments are nothing more than wacky stories with talking bushes, arks, parting waters and such not mentioning the walking on water and magic bread

>>212603621
>THESE PARABLES AND ALLEGORIES NEVER HAPPENED CHUDDY, CHECKMATE!
Okay? And?

>>212603566
Can't tell if ratarded (actual christian) or pretending to be retarded (retarded)

>>212595975 (OP)
One person avoids murdering, raping and stealing because they've been promised a reward and threatened with a punishment. One person avoids murdering, raping and stealing because they recognise the personal value of collective advantage and reciprocal altruism. Which is more correct? Both dress it up as best they can, but in the end it boils down to needing a reason to act in the interests of your fellow man.

>>212603545
>>212603548
>>212603621
https://www.bethinking.org/jesus/ancient-evidence-for-jesus-from-non-christian-sources
>Non-Christian historians and writers from the first and second centuries provide evidence for the existence of Jesus, corroborating some aspects of the biblical account. These sources include Flavius Josephus, Tacitus, and Pliny the Younger, who mention Jesus, his crucifixion, and the early Christian movement.

His execution under Pontius Pilot isn't just a made up story with made up characters, dummy.

>>212603659
us scientists work only with verifiable sources, not fairytales

>>212603621
if we did not have our understanding of physics and science we would believe all sorts of things like rainbows or earthquakes were irrational, fantastical events. parting waters and walking on water are simply things the Rational cannot answer, so instead are answered by the Irrational. rational and irrational are like light and dark, you cannot have one without the other. Humanity will never have purely logical reasoning, it is impossible.

>>212603659
99% is bullshit parables but somehow Jesus is real lol

>>212603730
That's really interesting considering "peer reviewed" academia has already been exposed as "whatever left wing cry babies believe at the time being" over and over again

>>212603768
Jesus is, again, objectively historically real, setting aside any claims of divinity. You do yourself a disservice and make yourself look like an uninformed retard trying to deny it.

>>212603730
what is a verifiable source

>>212603725
>Colateral sources
Lmao

>>212603835
>uses cope to move the goalpost
So you believe that Alexander the Great and Cleopatra are 100% made up fictional being too then eh?

>>212603805
Waiting for them objective truths and not later mentions lol

>>212603940
>Still waiting for those sources re: the sky being blue lmao

>>212603940
>>212603890

>>212603271
>Oh right I forgot the entire world is the west
This is such a retarded non response to what I was saying. You might as well have just called me a faggot and moved on.

>>212603129
So, you compared your skydaddy, the source of objective reality, to a guy in a monkey suit.

>>212603770
I hate how Reddit gaylords ask for studies in social sciences like they mean anything

>>212603890
They proved Alexander was fictional years ago.

>>212604098
Really whos they?

>>212601356
>very low crime rates
what's their crime rate during imperial japan? during Sengoku period? I suggest taking off your Weeb tinted glasses.

>>212604098
>Guys! Guys! Look at me! Look at how retarded I am! Hehe. Look at me! Ignore the boner, please. Look at me!!!!
Classic

>>212595975 (OP)
stay seethin' midwit chud

>>212603890
I'm inclined to believe that 80% + of what we're taught about them is utter bullshit
They're both quite documented in regard with jesus

>>212604091
It's unfortunate that James Lindsay's publication was buried under covid hysteria. It was really funny how him and his collogues just made up complete bullshit and academic journals not only published it, but some nominated their fake papers for awards

>>212604121
experts
>>212604153
not my fault you don't read the news

>>212604182
Post it, then, you can't, because you're just making it up.

>>212595975 (OP)
dumb underage zoomer

>>212604168
Ironically enough kinda the same here. Realizing how 100% made up horse shit the mainstream narrative is made me look into religion.

>>212604182
>experts
Really, who?

>>212603987
TWO MORE WEEKS

>>212603842
So at this rate the egyptians were right because they thrived for 3000+ yrs?

>>212604286
No more like,
>Who built the Pyramids? And don't tell me the Egyptians because you have no verifiable proof!

>>212604310
Okay, this is boring, and you're bad at baiting.

>>212604046
My skydaddy? I'm an atheist.

>>212604310
You posted proof that Alexander the Great has a father? What are you trying to get at here?

>>212604338
I accept your concession

>>212604220
Yeah bit Alexander did impact millions of contemporary lives during his life and is remembered widely in a vast strip if land while jesus and had a bunch of illiterate friends who lo-key threw him under the bus before "writing" tales of grandeur

>>212604405
if his father never existed then he never existed either, its simple logic but I know how hard that is for christians

>>212601034
>>212601356
Pretty sure the Nips killed 11 million civilians in WW2 and a lot of other Asians are still pissed off about that.

Liked by everyone? Angels? Holy weeaboo

>>212604409
I'm just saying, it needs to be believable. When you just post the most abject retarded shit, no one is gonna buy that you're real.

>>212604457
That's not what that article even says though you fuckin idiot

>>212604320
>From christian to flatearther
Not surprised desu

>>212604453
>while jesus and had a bunch of illiterate friends who lo-key threw him under the bus before "writing" tales of grandeur
If this is the case then why did Rome make Christianity it's religion?

>>212604529
huh?

>>212604530
Oh you
Why did the king of England create anglicanism?

>>212604477
I didn't have to 'post' anything at all since facts speak for themselves

>>212604593
Due to a schism created by Protestants

>>212604601
I'm not buying it, anon, you're playing to the wrong crowd.

>>212596511
The same Christians who genocided entire people in America??

>>212604601
Why are you so scared to post your actual sources instead of screenshots?

>>212604648
ignorance is bliss

>>212604691
>The Sun
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>212596850
Shalom!

>It's impossible to minimize human suffering without fairy tales
Kek

>>212600638
Is this why my Jewish girlfriend is never wrong? I was raised Catholic and seem to have a much easier time holding standards across the board for all people, yet her morality, or maybe judgment, often wavers depending on what is convenient to her or those she cares about. Arguing with her is basically just a bullshit factory but it seems different than the usual woman.

>>212604810
The fact that you refer to it as fairy tales goes to show how insecure you actually are with yourself

>>212604836
>jew
>woman
Got two strikes already. I'm surprised you haven't just shot yourself from the nagging. A yenta is a horrible thing.

>>212604836
Yes, the essence of the jewish nature is essentially that kind of word-twisting lawfare shenanigans, they apply it to everything. I think it's genetic? No real idea what causes it, but it's way way way too ubiquitous to be purely cultural I think.

>>212595975 (OP)
Yeah, these kinds of statements are always used as gotchas by people who don’t really understand theology. In the first place Christians think that everyone is a terrible sinner deserving of God’s punishment- so saying “you’re a bad person for needing God to do the right thing” is actually validating for them

>>212604475
who cares
that was like 80 years ago

>>212600638
this.

>>212604920
If it’s so important to them then why are they so bad at it?

>>212605136
They're NOT, in the grand scheme of things, and it's why they're running the show.

>>212602633
And where are those roots, trace them out for me.

>>212595975 (OP)
You're an idiot. Also bad faith arguments and shitty assumptions.

>>212604920
i think it goes back to the second temple being destroyed, and what led up to that. i think any honest sincere "jew" today would just be christian. the essence of modern rabbinic judaism requires you be a contradictory schizophrenic.

>>212605162
Do we all just have a lower tolerance for it because of our time on here?

>>212605243
i know people who are noticers or whatever you wanna call it and they've never been on this site.

>>212605120
I don't care but saying the Japanese are liked everywhere and angels is disingenous bro. The Koreans and Chinks have a huge beef with them. Maybe less so these days.

>>212605343
well they're wrong and butthurt about historical warfare. that is gay of them.

>>212605243
It's a cognitive dissonance + questioning authority thing. People grow up in the machine, and some people learn to ask uncomfortable questions, some don't. Some people are willing to be disliked in the pursuit of Truth, some aren't. A lot of people only care about what's convenient/comfortable, and not what's True.
To a certain extent, I think it's easy to extrapolate that the same kind of person who doesn't buy into the "4chan as dangerous extremist nazi enclave" stuff is also willing to ask other questions.
A big part of how these people have ultimately sabotaged themselves, in the long term, mirrors what you see with DARE. People grow up being told that if you touch a joint you're a junkie, then they smoke weed for the first time, subsequently realize they've been boldly purposefully lied to by authority their whole life, and start asking questions.

Another factor is pic related

>>212605400
Warfare is one thing but unit 731 is pretty fucking wild in any historical context.

>>212605609
All the powers of WW2 were doing that kind of shit, anon, it's just that history is written by the victors.

Without Crime & Punishment tell me right now 90% of the US population wouldn't start stealing, raping, killing etc...

>>212605675
>create a system in which the fundamentally evil are cowed into hiding their nature
>allow them to breed unchecked for millennia
>ship the worst of them to a continent of their own and let them breed unchecked for centuries
>wind up with a country of violent half-retarded rapists who would tear themselves apart if you took the rails off
Wow I wonder how that happened

Japan is highly authoritarian, which is why they have the society they do. The laws in Japan allow for indefinite detention regardless of evidence. Try and smoke a joint in Japan and see what happens

>>212605663
And I would say all the powers of WW2 were horrible people.

>>212596013
lol'd holy shit lmao

>>212595975 (OP)
>Can we talk about how fucking stupid this line is, please?
the purpose of this line is to characterize Rust.
he is arrogant and self righteous.
him saying this is part of his character.

>>212605675
the US population isn't 90% white. they would start robbing, raping and killing.

>>212605897
>he is arrogant and self righteous.
he just like me fr fr

>>212606028
i love that for you

>>212603048
believing in god is the ultimate 'taking the bait'

>>212605780
japan is a rare exception. they are not paradise, they are not angels, but i can say they are culturally superior to the majority of the world, even their close neighbors. i wouldnt want to live in japan but i do respect japan.

>>212603186
Jesus may have existed as a dude. The 'son of god' and 'resurrection' parts are bullshit though.

Japan is just an example of something like society as hyperbolic bureaucracy. It works, but if I lived there I'd probably kill myself.

>>212606129
>The 'son of god' and 'resurrection' parts are bullshit though.
how do you know?

>>212595975 (OP)
>it's another "christians wants to drag everyone down to their level" thread

>>212603842
Yes, basically. People being ignorant for millennia is a pretty good excuse for religion having lasted a while.

>>212606129
I mean it was good enough to convert the strongest empire on the planet and also lead to the largest religion in human history but if only they were as smart as you...

>>212606181
>depicts himself as the evil all seeing eye.

>>212606193
>everyone was stupid for thousands of years except me

>>212606206
>evil
They're the good guys, anon, but I wouldn't expect you to get that.

>>212606206
irony is really hard for you isnt it

>>212606198
modern hubris knows no bounds. midwits and other such dorks and so called "intellectuals" of today are borderline retarded compared to scholars, philosophers, and other men of note from 2000 years ago. there is not a single man today I would trust more than Plato.

>>212606250
you type like a plebbitor. i win. :)

>>212606164
Because when people die they stay dead. Even now with all of the medical advances. You can come back after three minutes, not three days.

But you keep your "faith". The world used to be all magical and shit but now it's not.
But if could be again someday when Jesus, who is also his own dad, god, chooses to "return".
LOLOLOL

>>212606268
I find it really fascinating, the scientism types all act like they stand on the shoulders of giants while they wallow in the mud. In like 100 years they're going to be doing sociological studies about these people.

>>212606315
cool story bro

>>212606268
That's pretty much my point. The people that caused Christianity to reign are also the pioneers of practically all Western theology

>>212606268
Say hello to all the featherless bipeds for me.

When I first came to 4chan, I was happy I was in the company of other intelligent people. Never would I have dreamed back then that I would wind up amongst a bunch of rubes.

>>212606320
ESL opinion disregarded.

>>212606417
When was that, anon? This place has almost always been full of retard apes, past the first handful of years.

>>212606198
>>212606233

Yeah, those people didn't understand anything. How is it you think these are good arguments?

>but the superstitious people who didn't know to wash their hands bought this 'god' shit for thousands of years. It inspired everything all the time for so, so long. And you come with your fancy "science" and "knowledge" you can reproduce and prove and think it should supersede all of that ignorant tradition?

Yes. I am smarter than all of those dead retards. And there are no observable miracles. We have video now and yet no magic shit has been captured. Keep waiting.

>>212606424
>ESL

lol

>>212606481
It was the first handful of years.

>>212606481
>When was that, anon?
probably 2021 when this place was flooded with r/donaldtrump refugees

>>212595975 (OP)
>Christcuck is a retard who can't tell what is right or wrong by himself
Many such cases

>>212606501
>im smarter than everyone because I have a cellphone that records video
You birth year starts with a 2 it's very obvious

>>212604392
Sorry, wires got crossed. This has been an exceptionally stupid summerfag thread after all. You should probably read the rest of >>212601324. The mafia was founded up around the time the Catholic Church was offering salvation for pay.

>>212596296
>society decides that we should kill all unborn babies if the mother just wants to, therefore it's morally good
Grim times due to simpletons like this one

>>212606529
You've been here for nearly 2 decades and just now realized people are dumber? I'm calling bullshit.

>>212606783
I mean, he might just be griping about it. I do too, occasionally, which draws accusations of newfaggotry, but sometimes I do just need to express how bad this place fucking sucks.

>>212606417
>When I first came to 4chan, I was happy I was in the company of other intelligent people

>>212606894
I just don't believe anyone stayed here that long continuously and still cares. I left for like 10 years and I'm only back because I've stopped caring about how shit it is.

>>212595975 (OP)
If you help someone because there is something in return, that is not kindness, but you are not necessarily evil. You are simply doing a TRADE.
An act of trade is never an act of kindness.

> Why are some people being kind to others?
A) It feels good to them (you could argue this is a form of trading)
B) It doesn't feel good to them, but it hurts to see others suffer. (They would rather no one were ever in trouble, so they would never have to help anyone and could just mind their own business.)
C) Because it is the right thing to do (like fairness, sometimes being fair is disadvantageous to a person, but he still wants to do it)

>"Is being a sucker mandatory to be a good person?"
Intelligence is not a requirement for kindness. Intelligence is a “multiplier” for personal morality.
The more intelligent a person is, the more evil or kind he is.

Scenario 1: a dumb person throws a piece of paper on the floor, thinking it is no big deal. It only causes inconvenience to the cleaner, who has to spend a few extra seconds picking it up.
Scenario 2: a smart person understands that littering a piece of paper on the floor could cause an elderly person to slip, get seriously injured, or become paralyzed for life.

A dumb person throwing trash is only costing others some time. A smart person doing the same is gambling with someone else's lifelong health.
Their actions are exactly the same, but the moral weight behind them is vastly different.
The more intelligent a person is, the more evil or kind they can be, assuming all other factors are equal.

(1/2)

>>212607033
I had made peace with it, but then they removed the IP counter.

>>212607161
>objective morality and righteousness
Probably no such thing. Kindness is doing what’s best for another person.
But what’s best for a person is subjective.
An adventurous person might want to risk his life doing things in no man’s land, and if you report him to the police trying to save him, you are being evil to him.
Some parents want their children to be successful and have a wonderful life, so they force them to study so much that the child ends up killing himself.
Sometimes, giving exactly what a person wants isn’t the best for them either — like junkies and porn addicts.

>Where did this meme of atheists being smart come from?
Never heard of it, it’s probably not even popular.
There are two types of atheists, different in nature:
A) People who become atheists because it benefits them (for example, LGBT people oppressed by religions)
B) People who become atheists because they value evidence

People who value evidence usually also value logic.
Intelligence is largely innate (you can read all the books you want, but you won’t become Einstein).
However, using logic always leads to better reasoning than not using it. Yes, theists rely on blind faith, not logic. Also, it’s better not to lump LGBT atheists together with straight atheists, since the former have a vested interest in it.

(2/2)

None of you dweebs will ever accept that the real truth is just behind the curtain, if only you were brave enough to yank it back.

>>212595975 (OP)
>he raised his kids and looked after his family for the wrong reasons
AHH WHAT A PIECE OF SHIT. Rust is just an angry alcoholic retarded psuedo intellectual redditor

>>212605487
So how do I counteract the
>up is down, ackshually
>no ur mad, goy
-tier arguments that it devolves into when I don’t capitulate to obvious contrivances and fabrication? It seems legitimately schizophrenic and leads to some worrying Sanpaku eyes.

>>212595975 (OP)
Normal people are decent in nature. We will probably curse, steal, and lie but usually won't hurt others by default.

>If I didn't believe in God, I'd probably be kidnapping and killing people. - psycopath in shackles

>>212607676
You literally can't, that's why they do it, it's a retarded confounding tactic. It is a psychological battle, which you either win or you lose, and she'll probably hate you if you fight hard enough to win.

>>212607676
Like even if you're not viewing it as a battle, she is. It's the same dirty duplicitous lawyer mode they all drop into when challenged, where nothing else matters but subjugating and defeating you.

>>212607871
>>212607927
Do I just say she’s being a Jew and move on? I usually try to ignore it but after her 6th attempt at provocation while I sit in silence I have to tell her she is harassing me. It ends up being a
>cries out in pain as it strikes you
thing. Like I know on a macro-economic and historically contextual level of how the culture is different, but I didn’t think it would permeate interpersonal interactions to this degree, especially with an anti-Zionist atheist Jew.

>>212608151
You either push it to the limit of confontation and probably have her break up with you, give up and submit to her or just breakup.
You have to decide what it's worth to stay with her.

>>212606049
shut the tuck up

>>212604836
>Arguing with her is basically just a bullshit factory but it seems different than the usual woman.
It’s either mainly a woman thing, or your communication and idea exchange is poor. The two of you are not on the same page.

If messages and ideas are successfully exchanged, one of you will become enlightened, and then both will be on the same page. You may not necessarily agree with each other, but there will be mutual understanding. What's missing is the evidence to verify either your own or your girlfriend’s perspective.

I tend to be in a similar position too. Sometimes it was a ‘woman thing,’ but sometimes my girl was actually right.
The hardest part is identifying when it’s just a ‘woman thing,’ and how to use the right articulation skills to exchange ideas effectively.