Thread 212661872

What am I in for? Just DS9 with no budget?

>>212661872 (OP)
bad season 1 (but plot relevant), kino season 2-4
only similarities with DS9 is the involvement of space politics
characters with arcs and development

>>212661872 (OP)
As a DS9 fan whose currently on S3 of this it's bretty gud. Interesting plot with a similar tone.
It's storylines are a lot tighter and they don't beat around the bush with the overarching plotlines. Overall it feels like it was very fleshed out rather far in advance compared to DS9. The alien species and cultures are also pretty interesting. The humor is a little better than Trek humor, and the budget is also decent.

The only things I'd say that are worse than DS9 are that the villains are less interesting than the Dominion, and while many of the characters are good and have decent development none of them really pop the way the beat DS9 characters like Quark, Garak or Dukat did.

>>212661987
>only similarities with DS9 is the involvement of space politics characters with arcs and development
And the Space Station, and having the fallout of a recent war influencing the political situation, and the heavy religious overtones, and the tension from colonisation(Centauri occupation of Naarn vs Cardassian occupation of Bajor). There's a lot of situations and even just small plot points that are similar enough to make me pretty sure people in both writer's rooms were stealing ideas.

There's even an episode with an alien that talks to Sheridan through weird flashbacks in a way that's way too similar to how the Prophets talked to Sisko. Obviously it's utilised in a very different context, but one idea clearly influenced the other.

>>212662021
>Overall it feels like it was very fleshed out rather far in advance compared to DS9
It was. The entire series was plotted out before the pilot even happened. As well, Straczynski knew that it was possible they'd lose actors for one reason or another, so every major character had a "back door" written into their character that would allow them to be written out of the show in a natural way, while also having a backup character waiting in the wings to step into their place. The result being that when a character leaves, it feels like a natural part of the story.

This was used for Sinclair>Sheridan, Talia>Lyta (technically Lyta>Talia>Lyta), and Ivonova>Lochley.

I'd actually love to know about some of the other backdoor characters that must have existed, for characters like Londo and G'Kar.

>>212661987
>bad season 1
it's much stronger than the first seasons of tng and ds9, they were way more of a slog to get through, if anons have either of those shows under their belt getting into B5 really shouldn't be an issue.

What do you want?

>>212662021
>currently on S3
KINO
I
N
O

>>212661872 (OP)
I haven't watched it in years, but it's very good. At first I though /tv/ was trolling me, especially because season 1 is pretty bad. But watch the whole thing, it really pays off. I think it's an amazing show.

>>212661872 (OP)
Where can I watch Babylon 1 through 4?

I remember thinking that it was a great show which just happened to be allergic to style. The primary sets gave serious local laser tag and it was hard to get past them.

Even with it's lower budget campy 90s style Babylon 5 still looks better than anything coming out now, art direction and soul is ultimately most important

>>212661987
Kino

>>212661872 (OP)
Imagine DS9 but actually good. Like if every other episode was a Garrak story.

I normally hate 'reaction' youtubers but after having watched B5 so many times it's actually kind of cool seeing it with fresh eyes and getting a different perspective from people who don't know everything that's coming, what bits and pieces of foreshadowing they pick up on and things they do or don't realise will be important later.

>>212661987
>bad season 1
wrong
>>212662118
DS9 season 1 was also good

>>212662118
>if anons have either of those shows under their belt getting into B5 really shouldn't be an issue.
they'll be disappointed and confused going into B5 like that seeing everything repeated and familiar since DS9 stole it all they've seen it already

>>212661987
Season 1 had kino episodes especially the schizo Sinclair one which must have been hell for him to film. Probably contributed to his break

>>212662847
The big problem is that front-loading with rough episodes. Soulhounter and Infection as episodes 2 & 4 is a hurdle.

>>212661987
Season 1 > Season 2

>>212665935
Wait did the actor for Sinclair go insane? Is that why he left?

>>212666240
I kind of liked Soul Hunter.

>>212666850
He was hallucinating and losing his shit and his co stars were afraid to be alone with him

>>212661872 (OP)
More interesting and exciting than DS9, but I'm only halfway through DS9 more or less

DS9 has better acting and production values but B5 has a better story. Both are excellent

>>212661872 (OP)
It's really hard to watch this as an adult. The moralism is so self-satisfied and callow. JMS really was born to write comic books.

>>212666936
Peak DS9 is better than peak Babylon 5, but only like 5% of DS9 is peak versus like 40-50% of Babylon 5.

I tried to show it to my parents (who love star trek/ds9)

They were about to give up S1, only stuck with it because I said it gets better (they really hate Sinclair and all human characters for that matter)

They stuck with it and enjoyed S2/3 and liked Sheridan, but S4 they gave up again and quit during S5. Even turned their backs on Sheridan and just hated every non-alien character.

Were they right?

>>212667108
>but S4 they gave up again
but that's the best season by far

>>212667108
they already ruined it by watching ds9 first. They feel bored with the sense "yawn, seen this all before nothing new" which of course, since you watched the knockoff show that stole everything!

>>212667135

to be fair, the whole mars/minbari stuff in the middle does suck.

>>212667187

well I tried to inform them what they were getting into with spoilers, including the Babylon 5/DS9 history, but still it wasn't enough

>>212667235

i meant without spoilers. typo

>>212666850
yes, nobody knew except JMS until he told the story years later after his death. the other actors just thought he was an asshole and difficult to work with, they had no idea he was legit losing his mind.

>>212667108
Some people just have bad taste. I knew a boomer co-worker who enjoyed the new Star Wars movies. All 3 of them.

Fuck Star trek, it doesn't deserve it's legacy.
Fuck DS9 for stealing everything from babylon 5.
For those who watched babylon 5 it's a goldmine so I am glad it isn't normiefied.

>>212662115

This is a myth. Straczynski played fast and loose the whole time.

The actor who played Sinclair developed extreme schizophrenia during the first season. He started having unpredictable outbursts and started alienating the other cast members and crew. He privately confided in Straczynski that he couldn't act anymore, but he didn't want people to know in case he could get treatment and was able to become a working actor again. Having the main character of a show abruptly quit has been a death knell for a lot of shows. So Straczynski wrote a letter to the fans lying about 'Oh, no worries, I totes prepared trap doors, it's normal to write the possibility that every actor will suddenly quit, I am not making this up on the spot'.

Lyta got replaced because the Garibaldi actor wanted to get with the Talia actress. Talia got replaced because her actress was married to the Garibaldi actor and they got divorced, their inability to work together made it impossible to film episodes and Garibaldi was more important to the plot.

Keffer got killed off because a studio note created him, Straczynski was always bitter about that, so he killed him off.

Ivonova was replaced because Straczynski started creeping on her days after her divorce, and she was justifiably like 'no, I don't want to date anyone, gross, also you are my boss', so he had her S5 contract show up at her address at 2AM demanding she sign immediately sight unseen and of course she said 'Uhhhhh... no. That's not how it works, feels like you are doing it this way to contrive a way for me to no longer be on the show.' She refused to sign and he said 321 no backsies.

The letter became an excuse he had to use repeatedly. These are not the actions of a careful chess master, it was always on the fly.

The /tv/ is mother.
The /tv/ is father.

>>212668744
This is why DS9 will always be superior to B5. Fuck sex pests.

>>212669295
Basedter

>>212661872 (OP)
better than DS9 with actually coherent worldbuilding and great writing (yeah S1 is kind of rough but it gets amazing later)

>>212666850
Yeah he asked to be taken off the show as not to ruin J Michaels vision. They way they weaved in his plot with Sheridan and switcherooing is impressive considering it didn't fuck the story too much

I love both B5 and DS9. Don't undertand the B5 fags who always have to shit on Star Trek. If you like one but not the other, you're a weirdo.

>>212671657
Same.

The only thing the shows have in common is that they're on a space station and a war happens.
Babylon 5 is nothing like Star Trek. The humans aren't anything like Trek humans, the military isn't anything like Starfleet. It's the most room temperature IQ take ever really.

>>212671657
I don't see the problem with having a preference if you've watched both

Ai image regens of the shitty 3d graphics might be viable soon

JUST

>>212672507
His hairline is so shit but he continues to maintain it. There's a part of me that wishes my hairline was like this so I could officially give up.

>>212671797
Having a preference is one thing, going "STAR TREK SUCKS B5 IS SO MUCH BETTER" is another. They're both good shows and not that far apart in quality

I'd like to remind the thread that DS9 was partly modeled on the B5 pitch to the network before it was in production, so any similarities are due to CBS being niggers. I say that as someone who ranks DS9 higher trek wise than many would

>>212671797
It's cool to prefer one but if you can't talk about one without ranting about the other you've got a problem

>>212662021
>the villains are less interesting than the Dominion
I was so annoyed by you comment I tried to get the AI to rewrite the navy seal copypasta but as if it was written by The Shadows. I wasn't happy with the result so I'll just say I strongly disagree. The dominion (as cool as the Dominion was) were pretty boring with pretty boring reasons and ways to go about it. The Vorlons and Shadows are way more interesting.

>>212673300
I meant to write "(as cool as the Dominion War was)"

>>212661872 (OP)
Why are there homeless bums allowed on Babylon 5? As soon as you can't sustain yourself, it's back to Earth.

>>212673373
No free rides on the B5 communist

>>212665534
SOVL

>>212673300
You can't just write it yourself? AI is killing creativity.

>>212672606
hight t hairline

>>212661987
>bad season 1
just rewatched it after 20 years and Season 1 is good. Drops many clues that are resolved much later on. They way the wrote Sinclair out of the show was fucking brilliant.
That's why a remake will never work. Bab5 turning out to be kino was thanks to a chain of unfortunate events.

>>212673300
The Dominion concept had a lot of potential but it was mostly wasted. They were briefly portrayed as amazing and sneaky infiltrators in that episode where they were in Starfleet HQ but then that was immediately dropped and never used again.

>>212662894
It's a product of its time. It's funny that they tried to future proof it for the 4K 16:9 era by shooting it with those changes in mind but got thwarted by SPX issues because it was the 4:3 480 video that helped hide much of the cost cutting. They did an amazing job with the budget they had but moving it into HD on large screens really shows how little they had to work with. At the risk of sounding like a /v/fag, the show is best watched on a 19" CRT.

This pattern makes me happy

>>212671657
I understand why JMS is bitter about it but yeah, don't get why fans care about a studio contract dispute. No doubt DS9 takes inspiration from JMS's show bible but it only uses basic concepts that can't be claimed by anyone anyway. I enjoy B5 far more deeply than DS9 but I'm still happy that DS9 exists.
It's also worth noting how many B5 actors also appear in Trek, even DS9.

>>212674031
it's human nature to dislike seeing scummy behaviour from others

>>212673462
I've never been interested enough in creative writing to try to get good at it.

>>212674057
Though it's a one-and-done type episode, I like to use it as an introduction to the show for people on the fence about watching the series. It doesn't do much to spoil the larger story of the series and gives some general sense of the main characters without getting bogged down in their details.
>>212668744
>Keffer got killed off because a studio note created him
The character was pretty useless but the studio did keep JMS from fucking himself several times, such as by forbidding the Delenn transgender storyline.

>>212672507
Kinda funny how anglos pronounce it gerry-baldy

>>212674091
Good luck finding any Hollywood production that's free of scummy behavior, including sexpest JMS.

Every episode starts with a
WHOOOOSHOOOOOIIING
kino

>>212661872 (OP)
10x better than DS9, some of the best writing in the genre

>>212674480
>>212671657
like pottery

>>212674317
We prounounce it "garry baldy"

>>212674317
Delenn always used the proper Italian pronounciation but she was from Croatia I think

>>212674317
no we don't you mong.

>>212661872 (OP)
The most boring sci-fi saga known to man.
As an oldfag I've watched most sci-fi. I watch the first season on it's initial run but stopped watching.
After so much shilling on /TV o thought I'd watch the whole thing. Jesus fucking Christ, just the most most cheap shit fest ever.
Utterlly tedious and the lack of budget makes this seem comical. Watch this at your peril.
If your are looking for past sci fi gems, space above and beyond and farscape are better space centered fare.

doesn't even deserve a (You)

If you are an oldfag you are an utter simpleton who has learned nothing and are too mentally stunted to enjoy good television.

>>212665534
>it was our last, best hope, for pepe

Londo cheating at Poker with his penis arms was peak alien humanoid kino. Centauri women as hot as they are can only perform bjs on humans. We are not sexually compatible.

>>212673300
I binged B5 in 2023 and the whole big bad epic human-alien alliance vs the Shadows becoming a Shasows vs Vorlon war with the young races becoming a bit faction and having to use guile to bring both to heel was something I never saw coming and I loved it. That ending with the Vorlon fleet going through hyperspace with the planet killer seen for the first time was extremely ominous after 3 seasons of Kosh and Vorlons presented as the reluctant 'good guy' elder race.

>>212673747
I kept getting annoyed with them constantly introducing Jem'Hadar characters that were based (guy who killed his Vorlon CO after getting off the white (IIRC), the guy who spared Worf, etc.) only for them be killed off or disappear immediately. I guess you could say it's all thematic but he really made me grave for a Jem'Hadar getting redeemed and being a real character plus at least some of the Hadar breaking their conditioning in such a way it contributes to the Founders getting BTFO

sleeping in light is probably the single most satisfying final episode of a tv show I've ever seen, not just sci-fi shows, everything.

Why would Mars want independence from comfy earth gibsmedats and earth law and order? We're not dealing with a Boston harbor tax problem here. What difference does it make if Mars is governed by Earth, and Mars-born people achieve highest military positions without prejudice?

>>212676421
I almost dropped the show in Season 5 with Byron and the stakes being so low compared to the previous season. Sleeping in Light is probably one of the best finales of a show I've seen.

>>212661987
>bad season 1 (but plot relevant)
has some of the best standalone episodes of the show

>>212666878
This

Chief Warrant Officer Michael Garibasedi

>>212661872 (OP)
It has more grit than sterile star trek, which is refreshing. Very little gloating one's way to victory in B5, until the last season. The characters have flaws and must work around them. The recurring side characters in B5 are very strong where in a lot of star trek side characters are not much to write home about.

That penultimate episode in the future where the journalists are faggots pisses me off to no end, but I love it

>>212677517
>Anatomically impossible, Mister Garibaldy

>>212676515
Martians vote against their own economic interests.

claim your b5 waifu

>>212677585
That scene where delenn shows up is one of the best in the show.

>>212677891

In the middle of the office meeting I'd project to her mind how I'd hold her down and squeeze her nipples.

>>212678105
a shame she was atomized

>>212677891
this aj applegate looking bitch. I really liked when she had dinner with sheridan she basically they were spouting was bullshit propaganda and she was just doing her job.

>>212678304
When (((they))) changed the definition of vaccine, the first thing I thought of was this scene.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=imMGchI1EWY&pp=ygUjQmFieWxvbiA1IHJld3JpdGluZyB0aGUgZGljdGlvbmFyeSDSBwkJ2AkBhyohjO8%3D

>>212661872 (OP)
I want to fuck that bald little slut

>>212679731
Gkar?

An itching nose must be scratched.