Thread 212890034

Just watched this. Pretty good. Florence Pugh and JLD act circles around all other Marvel actors. Got some questions for people have been keeping up with the MCU. What happened to the Avengers? Weren't there a shitload of them who didn't retire? Why isn't the new Captain America involved? Why did he and Bucky break up?

>>212890034 (OP)
>capeslop
grow up

>>212890034 (OP)
>What happened to the Avengers?
died on the way to their home planet
>Weren't there a shitload of them who didn't retire?
trump killed them
>Why isn't the new Captain America involved?
too busy being zesty
>Why did he and Bucky break up?
not zesty enough, yet

>>212890034 (OP)
>What happened to the Avengers?
Cap left to have a life and Tony died. Thor is off in space. Hulk isn't even really Hulk anymore. Widow died and Hawkeye is too old and broken to care about anything except his family anymore. That was the original Avengers
>Why isn't the new Captain America involved?
They tried to get him involved in the latest Captain America movie. Unfortunately the president who was pushing for him to star a new team of Avengers got outed for doing horrible shit, so his official path to put together a new team was nixed
>Why did he and Bucky break up?
Bucky was trying to do things politically as a senator. Falcon is still trying to figure out his place still while living in Caps shadow

>>212890260
>Bucky was trying to do things politically as a senator
This was fucking retarded, dude was a brainwashed assassin who would vote for that. Bucky and Falcon should have swapped places

>>212890444
>dude was a brainwashed assassin who would vote for that
You mean that people won't vote for a Manchurian candidate

>>212890034 (OP)
It's my favorite mcu film. It's also the least mcu film.

>>212890444
>dude was a brainwashed assassin who would vote for that
He was an American soldier first. Fought in WW2 against both the Germans and Hydra. Basically he's one of the greatest generation. All the oldsters would vote for him. Then he's captured and turned into an assassin, but later breaks free of that and is rehabilitated, easy sympathy vote there. Then he fights not once against Thanos's army but twice. Essentially a veteran of the Infinity War who helped defeat Thanos once and for all. Everyone is voting him at that point

>>212890260
Can't Hulk and Thor still fight alongside some of the newer people like Ant-Man, Captain Marvel, Spider-Man, and the characters picking up old Avengers' mantels?

>>212890444
>dude was a brainwashed assassin
That wasn't common knowledge though. The "Winter Soldier" was a boogeyman among spec ops and spies, and even fewer people knew that Bucky Barnes, a guy who was thought dead in WWII was secretly another super soldier brainwashed by the russians.
He also showed up to help fight in end game, so thats probably enough to buy you some forgiveness.

>>212890612
Thor is gonna die in the next movie, Hulk ain't never gonna get his own movie, ant-man will retire or die in the next movie too

No idea about Captain Cunt and the suits at Marvel want to kill Peter to bring miles morales

The future of Marvel is going to be Captain Falcon, Flo the Pig and Pedo Pascual

Dreyfuss was wooden in this

>>212890034 (OP)
Possibly the most overrated MCU film ever, if not capeshit in general.

>>212890612
Hulk went hippy, he's probably never coming back. Thor is a wildcard because of the actors diagnosis so who knows what they'd do with the character. After the last Ant Man movie they're probably winding that character down to be with his family. That latest Captain Marvel movie sucked so much ass she's probably not going to be used much anymore as well. And after the last Spiderman movie nobody on Earth even knows who Spiderman is anymore. Its all fractured and splintered. It will all come back together again, but likely with none of the originals. They had their run

I like how Bucky's shown to be unfit for congress because he doesn't read the bills, cause other politicians totally do.

>>212890034 (OP)
Why are All my friends retarded and think this was great/good? Boring unfunny shit that's what it is...

>>212890825
>nobody on Earth even knows who Spiderman is anymore
they know who spider-man is, just not that he's Peter Parker

>>212890844
contrarianism is one hell of a drug
>capeshit is popular
>NOOOO FUCK CAPESHIT!
>capeshit dying out
>NOOOO WHY THIS IS THE BEST CAPESHIT MOVIE EVER!!!

>>212890825
How much longer will they keep the MCU alive then? I don't know how much of an audience the new characters can draw.

>>212890034 (OP)
Half the characters do nothing, say nothing of note. Sentry as a foil was gay and all their little traumas came off as uninteresting. They could have saved it partly by going full edgy and having them be actual bad guys but nah let's just have them do therapy like actual faggots.

>>212890905
Yeah but they hated the new Superman and Jurrasic World (both mid but not that nad) but for some reason fucking Thunderbolts is movie of the year for them... and nobody could tell me why just NPC shit like "it was funny/it was fun"... what the fuck is wrong with people, Thunderbolts was even more boring than Captain 4...

>>212890915
They have tons of characters they can keep introducing. They haven't even busted out their version of the X-Men yet. I'd say at least another 15 years of stuff before audiences truly get bored

>>212890990
They have all the money in the world to make Void look like some lovecraftian beast but, no they decided to go with fucking old Nokia effect of negative photo like retards who just discovered the internet.

>>212890696
>Thor is gonna die in the next movie
Nah. They'll always a leave a back door for hemsworth, and even if he gets old some of the best of his stories are old-man thor.
Besides if you want to reboot thor its super easy, just go the Donald Blake route and have a normal human who finds thor's hammer and becomes a new thor when he picks it up because the nine realms still need a god of thunder to protect the nine realms blah blah blah.

>>212891099
Fuck that, bring in Beta Ray Bill

>>212890990
>Half the characters do nothing, say nothing of note.
you forgot that they bully the US Agent with every sentece , because we weren't supposed to like that character. At least he didn't got assraped in a faggy musical.

>>212891099
>Nah. They'll always a leave a back door for hemsworth
More like a Panic Button to push when shit hits the fan.

Just like the RDJ Panic Button

>>212891140
Do you think you really want that? Haven't you see enough of MCU? Instead of some cool half-horse half-thor is going to be just some random big nigger faggot without any personality whatsoever.

>>212891236
>Do you think you really want that?
Yes I do. Its time to stop being timid and start getting weird. That's why people liked Marvel in the first place, not afraid to do trippy shit and take chances. The movies should go all out

>>212890034 (OP)
The President wanted Falcon to lead the Avengers. Val is the director of the CIA and basically made up the New Avengers on a whim to avoid going to jail. Two government sanctioned Avengers teams is basically like two different three letter government agencies fighting over jurisdiction. FBI and CIA fucking hate each other even though they’re supposed to be on the same side. The two Avengers teams are basically like that.

>>212890844
I had zero expectations going in and was pleasantly surprised that it was an actual movie with characters in a plot that mostly makes sense (for capeshit) where they have a call to action, develop as characters, have a low point, and then save the day without an obnoxious 45 minute CGI shitfest of explosions.
You get a solid well grounded scene where a bunch of assholes, dipshits, and losers save a couple dozen civilians from falling rubble, and then you up the stakes with void poofing people into the shadow realm, or whatever, but instead of the rest of the city being blown up, or invaded by a million billion aliens controlled by a single hive mind, it turns into a simple fist fight against a guys own dark side that ends with a group hug.
I also liked that the main character being the small chick good at gymnastics comes into play at the end. She's not fighting 20 dudes three times her size improbably, she's jumping and sliding over furniture being thrown at her. Its not a major thing, but it helps justify that the character is useful to the story, plot, and team for reasons inherent to the character, without having to rely on something as pandering as "the bitch can punch as hard as super-humans because lolgurlzgiterdon/Ihadsevenbrothers."

>>212891410
I just thought it was really weird that you've got a continuity where you have Baron Zemo and Thunderbolt Ross established, and then you make a Thunderbolts movie that is really only "Thunderbolts" if you turned it inside-out and backwards.
It doesn't need to follow the source material, and they set it up as a joke that it was her shitty pee-wee soccer team, but its just kind of weird if you're at all familiar with the comics.
And its a missed opportunity because the original thunderbolts was a fun concept. A bunch of b-list supervillains get new disguises and present themselves as a super team to fill the gap of the avengers, but as they pretend to be super heroes they find out they kind of like being good guys and having the public rooting for them.
I liked the movie, but it kind of squanders the thunderbolts, new avengers, and west coast avengers stories all at once.

>>212891013
I don't think running out of characters is the problem, it's running out of good actors that can carry this type of franchise. I think it's exactly why they're bringing back RDJ. They don't need Iron Man as a character, but they need an actor like RDJ.

>>212891757
They're bringing him back because that's always where it was headed. You didn't really think they were delving into the multiverse shit just for shits and giggles did you? They are going to bring back others as well as versions of themselves from other universes. Oh you you thought that villain was dead? Here they come again, but from another universe now as a hero. Think of the possibilities

Too bad marvel has a problem with showing someone be an asshole, dipshit or loser. I hate the safe edgy shit where nothing is happening but they're all freaking out and crying like something is happening, or they make an allusion to some bad shit but don't show anything, fuck off. The red guardian presumably has a sordid past but he's just a clown and we're supposed to care about bucky's beltway politics depression or whatever.

>>212891831
>They're bringing him back because that's always where it was headed.
No one and I mean no one could have guessed they'd be stupid enough to cast RDJ as Doctor Doom. Another actor showing up as a new Tony Stark, sure that's plausible. The guy who spent 10+ years of his career in the MCU coming back to be Doctor Doom, that's kinda perplexing.

>>212891740
They'll probably end up using that concept for the Dark Avengers.

>>212891831
>Oh you you thought that villain was dead? Here they come again, but from another universe now as a hero. Think of the possibilities
This shit is exactly the main reason the MCU is dying, that only works in a "joke" movie like Deadpool

>>212891970
Not really. Doom is intelligent. Stark is intelligent. Why wouldn't you introduce Doom as Stark from another universe. You get to kill off one character but bring the actor back as another. Its not the first time its been done

>>212892003
I think its been a problem with marvel movies through the series. They mostly have really weak ineffectual villains that are flat as cardboard and disposable because they're going to be dead by the end. No real nemesis is set up outside of thanos and trying to frontload kang before they had to abandon that idea.
And for the most part the bad guys are tying to kill everyone, so there's not a lot of room for redemption.
So you're stuck with the bad guy from ant man 2, and three characters from direct to streaming movies/series no one watched.
Still, now would be the time to start establishing bad guys.
Why not do a whole "phase" where you have a series of movies about some b-list bad guys trying to stage some mid-level super villain shit, like stealing all the gold in fort knox, or being a freedom fighter in fictionistanislaviaville. And having them get defeated, or narrowly escape, and then tie them together with a "im getting a team together" stinger at the end. Then you can built to a thundebolts movie where they get together, one where they frame and fight the avengers (and win), and then a third movie where they realize they were pawns to a bigger world threatening plot and they team up with the avengers to save the world.
After infinity war and endgame they desperately needed to de-escalate everything and start rebuilding from the ground up instead of going balls deep into kang and the multiverse.

How's my nigga David "Based" Harbour in it?

>>212892187
>that time tony stark died and Doom decided to become the new iron man, and he arguably did it better than tony
A big problem with the marvel movies that that they started with a lot of world building but because they didn't own the x men, spiderman, or fantastic four's film rights, there are big holes that are hard to retroactively fill.
Like you can't have tony stark as iron man be a big deal if mutants have been around in large civil rights demanding minorities since the 50's, or a giant rock man, fire lad, stretch guy, and the blonde being minor celebrities. You can't have half the population of latveria get snapped and not expect the metal face to have taken care of the problem before it started because what if batman and iron man had a baby who was born without a single fuck to give and a small eastern european country to rule.
I think the whole "multiverse" thing was just going to be a stealth way to reboot the universe into one where the fantastic four WERE the first family, and mutants have been around forever, AND the avengers.

>>212892568
>Big guy shouting in a thick comical russian accent that would make Pavel Chekov proud
He does bring a little bit of heart with his big scene in the movie.

>>212892685
The multiverse is the easy way you fix the holes. You simply have the characters show up from their universe and join the main one. You get the fun of the fish out of water scenario every time while taking the audience on the ride of establishing who they are. It also shuts up the people who constantly say shit like "Well where was this person when so and so was trying to destroy the world huh?"

>>212892075
I mean death in comics hasn't meant a fucking thing since forever.
One of the things I really liked about the Krakoa era of x-men was that they just say fuck it, and make mutant resurrection a thing, with scarlet witch even making amends for the whole "no more mutants" thing and giving them the template for mutants who died before they had resurrection protocol, which meant they brought back everyone, and they all lived in a mutant ethnostate that becomes an intergalactic power broker.

>>212892886
I agree with you, that is what I was trying to say, but I think they really fumbled the ball by going balls deep way too early.
But yeah, its the only explanation I can think of, because the comics eventually needed multiverse shit because they had decades and decades of continuity all over the map, and eventually you run out of variations of things to do, heel-face-heel-face turns, characters back from the dead but not really but then yes really but in a different way from the time travel duplicate life model doombot decoy clone from another timeline's distant cousin who was pretending to be them.

>>212890034 (OP)

the movie was missing one act.
There's an "act" where they're at the bunker at the start and then the next "act" is already the final showdown at the watchtower building.

Just seems off, it's like a chunk of the movie is missing

>>212894131
>and then the next "act" is already the final showdown at the watchtower building.
No. The first act ends with bob's powers manifesting and them getting blown off the hill.
Second act is
>them escaping into the desert
>limo scene
>limo chase with bucky showing up
>captured in the gas station
>bucky realizing they're on the level
>driving to new york on a hope and a prayer
>getting their ass kicked
>second act ends with widow calling everyone a loser and walking away
Her pep talk with papa captain soviet is the transition to the third act. The rising action is saving everyone from the falling rubble.
The climax of the action is void showing up and ghosting everyone.
Yelena going into the shadow and everyone following to help her and bob is the resolution of the plot, and the press conference is the ultimate trying of the thread.
It follows the three act structure like clockwork.

>>212894453

Nah, it definitely feels off.

Them at the desert is still adjacent to the bunker bit as a continuation of it.
There's a bit of a lull then we're already at the final showdown.

You're confusing acts and scenes within acts.

>>212890034 (OP)
Thunderbolts was trash. I can't believe so many tried to pretend like this was a good mcu film just because they had an ad bragging about random people from a24 working on it.
>What happened to the Avengers?
It's never formally stated. But basically Thor went back to Asgard, the GotG went back to travelling and shit, Steve retired, Tony died, Hulk is a joke, Captain Marvel is uninteresting, Spider-Man was canonically forgotten by everyone, T'Challa died, Ant-Man sucks, Hawkeye was relegated to tv before Renner got into an accident and Dr Strange grew a third eye that he never dealt with.
>tldr; they all fucked off and the team was quietly disbanded through inactivity

>>212890444
>who would vote for that
nice b8

>>212894729
Different location as far as the story is concerned.
Seems like a pretty clear cut between bunker interior and exterior in pitch black vs hard cut to open desert in broad daylight.
Those scenes are all beats that belong to the second act.
Refer to the beat sheet I posted.
>opening image
Yelena's moaning and whining while cleaning out the lab
>theme stated
Her meeting with david harbor
>set up
the whole gang in the bunker realizing they're there together
>Catalyst
Finding bob
>debate
Working together and escaping
>break in two
Bob acts as a distraction and they escape
This is the end of the first act, beginning of the second
>B story
bob is reclaimed by elain
>fun and games
the limo hijinks and chase
>midpoint
bucky joins the team
>bad guys close in
they drive to new york
>all is lost
they get their asses kicked and break up, the low point.
This is the end of the second act.
>dark night of the soul
they come together, think they've won, only to realize its all for nothing
>break into three
Widow goes into the shadows
>finale
them saving bob and themselves
>final image
The New Avengers!
It follows the text book three act structure plot progression flow chart that hollywood has been using as the stock template for scripts for decades.
Its not necessarily a bad thing, its like the heroes journey, our brains just generally like that kind of structure to our narrative. It keeps us the most interested.

>>212894919
>Hulk is a joke
Its kind of a shame/blessing in disguise I guess that they don't have the rights to making a hulk movie.
But if you have smart hulk then that means you have the savage hulk, which is what happens when you manage to piss off a hulk who mastered his anger.

>>212895315
Isn’t there an Asian Hulk? Do they have the movie rights for that?

>>212890034 (OP)
The actors were the worst part about it. I hate Florence Pugh's character. I didn't watch black widow and I don't know who any of these people are. Their characters are cringe. Listening to stranger things guy doing a Russian accent is awful. All these people did was talk about their feelings and shit. There was no action in this movie.

>>212895513
Rights like that are always weird because its not JUST the character, but a lot of adjacent characters.
Its why Sony can make a miles morales movie, he's too spider man adjacent to be legally distinct. Venom too is derivative and was sold with the spiderman-lot.
Amadeus Cho was the hulk for a while when the main hulk was dead/gone for a while, but when bruce came back he became "Brawn" and became another background gamma-mutate (the name for hulk-like characters with all kinds of kooky lore and body horror that surprisingly good).
Hickman is currently doing a miniseries called "Imperium" which is setting up a new marvel cosmic push, Brawn and She Hulk along with Hulk and a bunch of other characters are in deep space dealing with some fuckery in the galactic powers. Hulk is there because his son is ruler of new sakaar (from planet hulk) who was murdered along with a bunch of other planetary leaders.
Xavier fucked off from earth in an x-men crossover a few months ago because his ayy lmao bird daughter ruler of the shi'ar empire, so chucky boy is involved in that.
Between this and ultimates marvel has managed to not be complete cancer for the first time in a while.