Thread 212899867

Did this show basically pioneer 'I really don't know where I'm going with this so i'll just make shit up and retcon shit and act like it was the plan all along'?

>>212899867 (OP)
No, this one did

>>212899898
That one didn't have a major plot arc, it was basically creepy shit of the week: the show.

>>212899867 (OP)
>>212899898

>>212900059
actually accurate

>>212899989
Uh, yes it did you absolute retard. X-Files is know for having "motw" monster of the week episodes and "mytharc" episodes which moved the story forwards.

Now, the story in the x-files was a convoluted mess of plot holes, certainly but it did have a story. Some of the best episodes of the entire show are the early mytharc episodes like unit 731.

>>212900059
>>212899867 (OP)
both battlestar and lost both suffered because of the writers strike in 2007.

But lost was far worse than battlestar in terms of just making shit up as you go, it's well documented with lost that they didn't have a generalized outline or plan for where the show was actually going to end up. Battlestar was similar, but we knew from the very start of the show that they were looking for Earth, and that's where the show would end up.

>>212899867 (OP)
At least it had an ending, George.

>>212900156
Making 5 random characters into Cylons was among the dumbest shit possible. Along with making Cylon skinjobs, which are supposed to just be androids still, being able to breed with humans. How does that even work?

>>212900210
the entire show was godidit anyways, not really worth asking questions about it. But yeah the final five thing it's clear RDM came up with this idea that there were x number of cylons and they were going to introduce them throughout the show, but then as it went on they realized they were just going to do something different with it. I doubt they planned on it from the very start. Seems like it stemmed from the intro too where "and they have a plan" but not really because they never really had a cohesive plan in the first place except genocide humanity

That said, the end of season 3 with all along the watchtower as they find each other was kino, even if the concept was flawed from the start.

but criticizing the cylons being human like in appearance is silly, the entire point of the show was based around that, it would have been an uninteresting show if the cylons were all just machines, didn't communicate, didn't feel emotions or anything and just wanted to kill all of humanity. Making the cylons "human" as well was a great decision that made the show what it was.

>>212900376
>but criticizing the cylons being human like in appearance is silly, the entire point of the show was based around that, it would have been an uninteresting show if the cylons were all just machines, didn't communicate, didn't feel emotions or anything and just wanted to kill all of humanity. Making the cylons "human" as well was a great decision that made the show what it was.
I'm not talking about this, I'm talking them being able to breed with humans, in-general, which was extremely weird and clearly not intended to be the case in the miniseries.
>and they have a plan
I think the problem with that was we never actually coherently learn that 'plan' and it was kinda assumed that it meant just genocide all humans.

>>212900118
X-files was the first show with complex myth arc, but their problem was that instead of doing season long myth arc with villian of the season like Buffy, Xena and later shows would do they tried to do myth arc that lasted the entire series with no real plan where it would end up so they kept adding stuff to a cute little goverment conspiracy until it mutated into a giant horrible mess.

Think around season 6 X-files tried to soft-reboot it by killing off the Syndicate but it was too late at this point plus it coincided with general quality drop of the entire show

>>212900376
>Make "and they have a plan" the tag line
>Never bother to actually write a plan for them
Maybe replacing writers with LLMs isn't such a bad idea

>>212899867 (OP)
>>212899898
>>212900059
these 3 are the holy trinity of this trope

I actually think BSG had a great ending that tied up the story back to season 1 perfectly, I could almost believe most of it was planned from the beginning. Obviously apart from a bunch of different characters being revealed to be cylon all along in the last season, though as one anon said scene itself was kino.

>>212900376
>>212900504
>>212900572
I could actually believe that skinjobs are actually aliens of some kind that coopted the Cylons.

>>212900504
>>212900572
I mean they literally released that movie after Battlstar ended "the plan"

Honestly I was so soured by the ending that I never bothered to watch it, never even looked up a plot synopsis.Maybe I'll go read the wikipedia now.

Battlestar was my absolute favorite show, I was a teenager at the time when the first season came on sci-fi, a channel I already watched a ton of because of stargate SG-1 and farscape, so naturally I watched Battlestar too and was obsessed with that show.

I'm old enough to have watched battlestar on my fucking ipod video, I used to buy the episodes on the itunes store to watch them after they aired. But the ending was so insulting to me, just the general way they ended the show and that flash forward to NYC in the end, it just made me angry and I haven't re-watched the series all the way through since it ended though I've watched the first few seasons a few times because they were so good.

Lost on the other hand though for some reason, despite all its flaws, I still love that show dearly. I re-watch it every 2-3 years all the way through and I've only grown to love it more every time I re-watch it. We just don't have quality television like that anymore, and Lost had a very divisive ending and final season too with tons of flaws but it's still watchable and not completely insulting to the viewer. They do actually answer almost everything, even if the answers aren't 100% satisfying.

>>212899867 (OP)
The writing as you go style was popular back in the 2000s because it meant networks could shift storylines quickly based on audience reactions through the season as it aired. It also meant that anyone could easily be written out or fired if they started making demands.

>>212900156
bsg was already full retard with its writing in s1 which was 2004 same for lost but s2 2005. writers strike only arguably fucked up s2 heroes but even then kring is a moron so it'd probably be fucked anyway

>>212900702
Here's my issues with Battlestar's ending.

The good:
Adama and Roslin get a good send off.
The assault on the colony and the soundtrack was good. The stuff with Cavil was good.

The bad:
The entire plot on Earth was so silly and dumb. Ah yes, we made it to paradise, let's immediately send all of our ships into the sun, send all of our history, our technology, everything must be destroyed because if we don't we will make robots that will destroy us again. Fucking stupid. How are the colonials supposed to ever learn from their past if they erase it?
They see primitive humans and immediately think let's start fucking them instead of just rebuilding our own civilization.
"no more cities" lol, good luck with that Lee you fucking retard.
RDM's misunderstanding of mitochondrial eve and that all humans descend from Baltar / Six's baby, fucking retarded. What was the point of their journey to Earth if everything about the colonials is just going to be erased?
The show went through great lengths to show how divided at times the colonials were, and yet as soon as they get to Earth suddenly they all agree on everything and there's no debate on whether to set them all up for disease and death on Earth.

I could go on but it's been literally decades since I thought about these criticisms and I'm just thinking about what I can remember about that finale off the top of my head.

>>212900745
>Lost on the other hand though for some reason, despite all its flaws, I still love that show dearly. I re-watch it every 2-3 years all the way through and I've only grown to love it more every time I re-watch it. We just don't have quality television like that anymore, and Lost had a very divisive ending and final season too with tons of flaws but it's still watchable and not completely insulting to the viewer. They do actually answer almost everything, even if the answers aren't 100% satisfying.
My nigga. I feel the same, that's why Lost is in my list of endlessly comfy rewatchable shows along with X-Files, Farscape, Banshee and Poirot.

>>212900811
Man no way. The first season of Battlestar is so fucking good, every episode is a banger. Hell, the very first episode of the show is probably its best episode (33). Then seeing the colonials deal with crisis after crisis to survive, it's all so good. Then season 2 with the Pegasus arc, there's tons of good stuff there too. The start of S3 was great but then it became pretty mediocre by the middle of it.

>>212900745
Don't watch Plan, it just shows how hidden Cylon infiltrators were planning and doing all those random terrorist acts you saw in seasons 1-2, seeing as all of them do not go as planned in rapid succession only makes Cylons look retarded. And it doesn't reveal anything about the bigger lore or their "plan" in general, what a waste of time

>>212899867 (OP)

that's been the rule for US shows since network television was invented

>>212900900
Yeah, for me it's

Lost
Sopranos
Seinfeld
X-Files
Stargate SG-1
Farscape
Always Sunny
Curb your Enthusiasm
Reno 911

these are my comfort shows I always come back to over the years.

But Lost is just a special show to me. I spent so much time as a teenager watching and theorizing and posting not only on /tv/ but Lostpedia and other websites, eagerly searching for the set leaks and spoilers, talking endlessly with people on the forums breaking down every episode and trying to solve the mysteries of the show. Then going to school at the time and talking about the new episode with my classmates because almost everyone watched it back then. Good fucking times.

>>212900911
What was the point of those attacks if the main plan was to just jump into planets' orbits and launch nukes? Was it just to make some War on Terror references since it was 2006?

>>212900911
I mean by the time that movie came out I had already moved on from the show so I guess I'm glad I never watched it.

One of these days I do need to re-watch the first 3 seasons though, it's been so fucking long, like well over a decade since I've even tried to watch them.

>It's God's plan for an angel that only Baltar can see to have sex with him regularly
>>212900376
>the end of season 3 with all along the watchtower as they find each other was kino, even if the concept was flawed from the start.
It's a good cover of the song but it's one of the dumbest parts of the show.
>>212900572
The "they have a plan" thing was something the network wanted/made them add to be fair.
>>212900861
>bro let's just throw all of our hospitals and medical supplies into the sun so we can all die of preventable diseases and injuries. if you were hurt in that final battle i guess you're fucked lol
Lee was dumb as shit. Realistically all of the survivors die as soon as Winter hits. One of the worst things about the show honestly is how stupid him and Starbuck are and they're two of the most important characters.

>>212901063
>ram the Pegasus into a Baseship even though you could just shoot it with your guns
Dumb shit.

>>212901063
The main issue with the ending is RDM had the need to connect Battlestar's Earth to our own Earth. It just didn't need to happen, why couldn't it just have been its own thing? They find an Earth that already has humans on it for example, and Earth that already has technology and society and whatnot, maybe it's far into the future, maybe in the past whatever that's for the writers to decide but they probably wouldn't have done that because it would have just led to a continuation of the show that wasn't wanted.

Even if they wanted a solid conclusion, ok they can find Earth, but do something more with it. Humans can be primitive, but maybe instead of that stupid flash forward in NYC have one in which humanity discovers their ancient past, learns about the colonials and how they got to Earth, discovers the space ships in deep orbit around Earth or something with a message left from the colonials as their legacy. Fucking anything, they could have still killed off all the colonials and had them leave a message for the future to warn humans about the dangers of artificial intelligence, cylons, etc.

>>212901096
the pegasus had a skeleton crew at the time, no way to really slug it out with the cylons. It was still stupid of them to sacrifice the ship when the galactica is an old rust bucket but the show is called battlestar galactica.

What always surprised me about the show, something that went underrated was the lack of military support vessels in the fleet. It would have been cool if an auxillary cruiser or some other smaller combat ship had survived the attack on the colonies and joined the fleet too. That way we wouldn't just have the galactica to protect everyone.

>>212899867 (OP)

Aside from "who were the final five?" tagalong... BSG 2.0 was a pretty solid show from start to finish.

Humanity brought low, scrambling to find a new home, while surviving the Cylons... fought them off, and found a new Earth to colonize....

..where did you think the story should've gone? As I'm sure that was the intent all along.

>>212901201
>Galactica blows up
>rename Pegasus to Galactica in her honor
problem solved, really ,then you can have your crew upgrade from a rustbucket to a proper warship

>>212901153
It's because it was an era that mandated 2deep4u. Show ended in 2009, and they wanted to end it on a note of where you'd go 'hmm, really makes you think'.

When in reality, it would've been much simpler to have them show up on 2009 regular Earth, and they have to coordinate with Earth's governments to take out the Cylons before they reach Earth. Yeah, too basic sci-fi, but it works.

>>212900376
>Wut if we're all sekrit cylons
It was stupid sorry

>>212899867 (OP)
Until Season 4 started and answered things (lmao), I did enjoy the old forums and their general theory was that Earth was the actual true homeworld of humanity, not Kobol. The closer they got to Earth, the more ancient the artifacts were, even being as old (if not older) than Kobol itself.

>I beat my gf up but she was a psylon so it was a good thing
>I'm an alcoholic psylon
Fuck off show

>>212901625
it really feels like they pulled the names of the final five from a hat, fucking roslin could've been a cylon lmao

>>212901318
I wanted an ending that was more open ended. An ending that truly ended the colonial's story, but left the door open for the story to continue.

Could have accomplished that with an ending in which the colonials do actually get to Earth, but they leave behind a message to the future people of Earth, or at least someone does. Lee or someone else leaves behind a video message that is discovered by future humans, we get to see his message and his warning about the cylons, and they leave behind the colonial archives and data that they had left from the journey, so that there was something left of the trials and tribulations they went through.

Then you could spin off the show with future humans building their own space ship, and then making their own journey back to the 12 colonies to see what they can find there, maybe some humans even survived the cylon purge and rebuilt their civilization in the eons and are now hostile to the people from Earth or something, who knows the possibilities would have been endless. You could even still have the cylons still out there as a threat or some other kind of new threats.

I just refuse to believe that the cylons could wipe out everyone on the 12 colonies. There were so many people, people could have survived underground in bunkers, and the atmospheres of the planets would recover over time after the fallout subsided.

>>212900156
The writers strike did not have anything to do with lost or bsg shitting the bed. They seemed dead set on shitting the bed from the onset.

>>212901858
They could've left it ambiguous with the Galactica showing up, and the International Space Station picks it up. Really, anything, anything would've worked better than
>actually we're all secret cylon and colonial human hybrids what do ya think of that, HUH?

>>212900059
The title should've been Flashbacks because the whole show is mostly flashbacks back to back.

>>212901858
>I wanted an ending that was more open ended. An ending that truly ended the colonial's story, but left the door open for the story to continue.

did you miss the part when they kept saying "This has all happened before, and will happen again."

or the part where Six mentioned "god's" name, and Baltar said "he doesn't like it when you call him that."...?

Or how about the Rouge-Cylons that went off in their own?

You ask for open endedness, I'd say there's a LOT more to say if we were to look closer at the mythos of the "Angels" and "who 'god' is, if he isn't the god at all"....

Personally if they go back to the BSG universe where THIS Earth is reaching a point of technological advancement, where we are building robots and space-ships again.... and the Angels and rouge-Cylons return, trying to break this cycle before doing it all over again..... Perhaps see those Cylons become humanoid again, but this time try to save Earth from humanity from destroying itself....

You now remember Caprica

>>212900904
s1 has the episode with the dumb 6 clone that disappears and the divine base target that baltar for no reason lies about. the writing is stupid its just not dull yet

>>212902365
I actually really don't.

>>212902365
I do, it wasn't a terrible show actually, but definitely didn't belong on sci-fi channel.

>>212902504
>the divine base target that baltar for no reason lies about.
You're talking about the hand of god, that was a great episode

>>212902661
What was it like?

>>212902271
Mass Effect is a sequel to BSG. The Angels are the Reapers.

>>212902721
Pretty soap opera. I remember though the chick that played atia in Rome was in it. Honestly I don't remember that much, Adama was actually in it too but he was a kid and his dad a mobster or something, there was some kind of computer simulation thing too that the main girl gets stuck in and she gets turned into a cylon too, like a mechanical cylon because her dad invented them. God it's been ages since I watched that show.

>>212902756
lol, wouldn't say it would be original....then again, there were probably more BSG viewers than Mass Effect players.

BSG at least had a kickass opening theme, good cast of characters, and a vibrant atmosphere even if the story was a little bit meh. It's watchable. Unlike fucking Lost which was pure shit from start to finish.

>>212899867 (OP)
The "Final five" was the dumbest most retarded asspull in the history of mankind.

>>212902873
Come on, the series finale has to top it
>actually we're all secret cylon and human babies, lol!

>>212902686
yes but baltar could have just said I dont know and no one would have cared, they would have just said ok this looks right and if it doesnt work shoot these two

The whole show is a lot better when you understand that Christianity is literally correct and true.

God did it

>>212899867 (OP)
No that was Lost.

>>212901007
Please tell me you just made a typo and forgot Babylon 5.

>>212903092
Babylon 5 is for patricians. Don't mention it among the masses before we get Babylon 6 sloppa.

>>212903133
True, my apologies.

>>212902365
>Caprica

I remember it. They had to fast track the end of the story because they had already known it was cancelled. Also Alessandra Torreasani who played the daughter should have been Munn's replacement on Attack of the Show. She has way more screen presence in her trial run
than the charisma vacuum Barbie doll they ended up settling on. Fucking Kevin thinking with his dick instead of his brain. A mistake that literally cost them the network.

>>212903092
Honestly, I've never actually watched it. I've had it downloaded for ages now just never got around to watching it, I know I should and maybe I will some day.

>>212903133
>>212903250
I would like to get into Babylon 5, but I can't get past the goofy aesthetics.

>>212903275
her?

>>212903337
>>212903339
If you don't do it right now you'll regret it for eternity. It's unironically the best sci fi story ever put on tv and it's not even close. It's the only show that had the entire story planned out ahead of time even planning for surprise cast changes which was incredible and unheard of and never happened after. It makes for a show with an incredible through line, even the monster of the week episodes can have important plot nuggets. The acting is on another level, londo and gkar duo is probably the greatest acting ever put on screen outside of the best movies. You are doing damage to your soul not watching it.

>>212903518
>londo and gkar
It's shit like that which makes it hard for me to take it seriously. The whole thing feels very dorky and silly, does that not interfere with the emotional and thematic impact of the story?

>>212903337
>B5

The overall story arc is absolute GOAT level god tier. Too bad they use mid-90's cgi for all of the space battles and special fx. And I shit you not they lost the masters so now it's almost impossible for them to be redone without spending a hundred gorillion dollars which nobody has been willing to do. So for that reason the show hasn't aged as well as other shows from the time. But the story and characters are still god tier.

>>212903596
What is so good about the story and characters?

>>212903586
There is nothing jokey about them, they are deeply serious characters with very mature acting. They are also aliens, they shouldn't look like humans or else what is the point of having aliens in your show in the first place?

>>212903586
Consider it more like a Shakespeare play. May not have the best special effects at times and the names are a bit old fashioned, but the stories and interactions of the characters are truly grand.

>>212903596
They invented space cgi battles, just like people complain about lotr thinking its derivative when it invented the genre. For it's time it was great and the later seasons still hold up. Seeing the ship designs themselves makes it worth it. It's also about 1% of the total show so it barely even matters.

>>212903648
>what is the point of having aliens in your show
Nerds like aliens.
>>212903667
I don't care for sci-fi or fantasy gobbledygook.

>>212900156
Battlestar also benefited from broadly following the plot of the 1970s version. The prisoner stuff, the finding a seemingly habitable planet one, etc. The series fell apart once they ran out of stories to copy.

>>212903492
After Olivia left AOTC they had this huge run of tryout guest co-hosts on the show to try and find Olivia Munn's replacement after she left for Hollywood. Alessandra had by far the best on screen presence and chemistry with Kevin. But they ended up settling on this Maxim magazine style blonde who was more "conventionally" attractive but wasn't nearly as naturally charismatic or funny.

>>212903756
>come into a thread about sci fi and fantasy
>I don't like that thing
>doesn't elaborate
>farts
I know there is a meme pic about this situation but I don't have it saved so you can just imagine I posted it.

>>212903848
>AOTC
Olivia Munn was in Attack of the Clones?

>>212902365
oh i remember Caprica


Zoe is the fusion of Zoe Graystone's sentient avatar and a U-87 Cylon body.
The avatar of Zoe is created when Daniel Graystone downloads the human Zoe's twin (an avatar) into a meta-cognitive processor (MCP) stolen from the Vergis Corporation of Tauron and inserts the MCP into the robot chassis. The experiment appears to fail and Daniel goes on to use the cylon in his capabilities demonstration to Minister of Defense, Joan Leyte. Yet, unbeknownst to Daniel, the download succeeded and the new Zoe has the memories of both the twin and of the capabilities demonstration. Zoe accesses a telephone circuit and calls Zoe Graystone's friend, Lacy Rand, asking for help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SduDLtx817s

>>212903873
I like sci-fi and fantasy stories; I just don't like when they're full of goofy ass names and silly characters and jargon that does not matter and nobody who isn't autistic cares about.

>>212903980
Sounds like you should stick to whatever star trek is currently airing.

>>212903967
This guy know's how to Caprica.

>>212904047
Old Trek is for annoying autistic retards, and nuTrek is for annoying normie retards. It's all bad.

>>212903518
>>212903596
ok ok I'll give it a shot. I guess I start with "The gathering" which I have labeled "season 00." I'm guessing the other files in here are other movies and I go to the first season after the gathering?

From what I remember seeing over the years is that the first season is slower and not as good and it gets better in season 2 and beyond right?

>>212903647
Bruce Boxleitner's Capt. Sheridan is up there with some of the best captains from Trek among other things. Then there's the kino background lore and worldbuilding with races like the Vorlons and Minbari. There's simply so much there. It's kino AF.

Isn't Babylon Five that show that tried to be Star Trek and failed miserably?

>>212904153
>Bruce Boxleitner's Capt. Sheridan is up there with some of the best captains from Trek among other things
Why? What makes him so great?
>background lore and worldbuilding
BORING

>>212899898
I still rub them out to Scully.

>>212904113
Season 1 of B5 is not indicative of the entire show. Season 2 is a literal soft reboot where they replace the captain and some of the side characters are re-written personality wise and become way more interesting.

>>212904113
It's not necessary to watch the gathering but it doesn't hurt either. Just know that the cast changes some between the first movie and the show. The other movies are all optional non of them are necessary to watch to understand the story and some are really bad.
The first season is good, it just has some of the cheesier monster of the week episodes and has to do a lot of heavy lifting laying the groundwork for the greater plot. But no episode is skippable and they are all good. Season 2 and 3 are the meat of the show and where it peaks. 4 has great moments but suffered because of threats of cancelation so they had to change and rush things but the good parts are still there. Season 5 first half is abysmal, the main story is basically over so they make up some bullshit and the entire psychic plotline is completely skippable. The last half you should watch and the last episode you absolutely have to watch.
Remember it's not a show that works well halfass watching it on a second monitor. If you can't make time to pay attention than wait until you can because there are so many details you will miss. Good luck and I hope you find it as fulfilling as I have.

>>212904163
No it's the show ds9 tried to copy and failed miserably.

>>212904219
Here's your last (You), go now before you make such an ass out of yourself you can never recover.

>>212904293
thanks for the info, I'll try to stick with it I got nothing else to really watch right now except foundation season 3.

>>212904362
>can't answer the question because he's autistic for gay ass alien makeup and doesn't actually understand what makes a character good or compelling

>>212904163
Deep Space 9 stole Babylon 5's concept. Not the other way around. And the show creator was livid. It's a whole deal and story unto itself.

>>212904439
Reminds me of the X-Men and the Doom Patrol

>>212900702
This. The ending is fantastic.

>>212901921
That clearly isn't true. Lost was Mystery Box Slop from the beginning, but BSG was well written and clearly plotted. They didn't jump into the mystery box shit until S3 and then the writers strike was the nail in the coffin. And even despite this, they had so firmly established characters and plots in the previous seasons that 3 and 4 still had brilliant episodes despite all the mystery box garbage.

>>212902365
>Gets a shout out in South Park.

>>212904219
Both Londo and G'Kar had incredible story arcs as side characters. They were both re-written between S1 and S2 to be less 2 dimensional and petty. Londo's story arc is the perfect example of morally grey and G'Kar has the biggest improvement as a true three dimensional character going from the petty and annoying character they started him with in S1.

>>212904773
They weren't rewritten, they grew through their experiences. JMS was famous for being hyper anal about his vision and not letting anyone fuck with it. There was only a single time he allowed the actors to go off script. Everything that happened happens for a reason.

>>212904734
>Mystery Box Slop
This describes Severance too

>>212904856
Ah yes, the legendary JMS. In addition to Babylon 5, he has penned extraordinary screenplays such as "Ninja Assassin" and "Underworld: Awakening"

>>212904954
That's a strawman that has nothing to do with the point being discussed. No one said anything about the quality of his other works. B5 was a once in a lifetime achievement. His other works are irrelevant. The point stands that londo and gkars character development wasn't made up as it went along but part of a core plan from the beginning. That is why the show succeeds where so many others have failed because unlike the liars in the OP's show there actually was a plan.

>>212903018
Based

>>212904856
They are almost totally different characters between S1 and S2. Anyone with a concept of characters and storytelling can see that they were re-calibrated between seasons to make the show work and not get prematurely cancelled. A lot of sci fi shows have soft rebooted in their second season over the years all the way from Lost in Space to Continuum. You do what you gotta do to keep the show alive and if the original premise you tweak it a little like between TNG S1 and S2 and DS9 S1 and S2 or you tweak it a lot with what is pretty much a soft reboot like with Lost in Space, Continuum and B5.

>>212899867 (OP)
>the start
>we are going to find earth
>the end
>they find earth
How is this making shit up? They stuck to the plan.

>>212905524
The cylons had the plan they didn't, you didn't even watch the show.

>>212905524
They literally talk about it in vid docs how they were making shit up and discussing in meetings whether the shit they were making up would break the lore continuity or not.

>>212905572
I watched the show when it aired
>>212905609
It's called episodic storytelling. That's what television used to be.

>>212905674
It's called making shit up as you go along which isn't a plan. This is documented fact.

>>212905700
But that's how television used to be. They have a group of writers and they make it up as they go.

>>212905674
>It's called episodic storytelling. That's what television used to be.

I agree with this. I just didn't agree with the direction the went with in BSG. The whole Final Five thing and randomly killing off Starbuck.

>>212899867 (OP)
It was literally a remake of sci fi based on Bible and Mormonism

>>212904939
Severance has real payoffs tho.

>>212905796
They didn't pretend some ambiguous plotpoint held overarching importance when they had no idea what it meant in the past. That is mystery box slop.

BSG aged like fine wine.

>>212906008
That kind of storytelling stated with X-Files. It's just that the X-Files writers weren't hacks where the mystery box style was their only crutch.

>>212906176
No it didn't. The whole point of a mystery box is the crutch. BSG and the X-Files early seasons stand on their own feet. Lost is slop from the beginning. It's inception is a lie.

>>212906182
Col. Tigh being a cylon is fucking retarded. Until the day I leave this mortal coul and beyond you will never be able to convince that Tigh being a cylon wasn't fucking retarded.

>>212906294
Any of the "final five" being cylon was fucking retarded. The idea that Cavil was able to plant them on Caprica with an extensive backstory just to further his personal vendetta is nonsense fabricated on a whim.

>>212903339
Its incredibly corny for the most part. B5 artists have brain damage

>>212906481
Don't remember anyone asking the greens for their opinion. Best move on before you run into trouble.

>>212906481
Bait used to be believable.

>>212906577
GOOFY

>>212906054
>Baltar did nothing wrong

Dude was literally actually and purposely responsible for nuking a civilian ship and instantly vaporizing thousands. Then the writers just memoryholed it like it never happened.

>>212907048
He's god though so it's ok he can do whatever he wants.

>>212907048
You're forgetting he is directly responsible for the near genocide of the human race.

>>212899867 (OP)
>>212899898
>>212900059
all fantastic shows btw

>>212907142
That wasn't on purpose though. He was duped. He has plausible deniably in that regard. On the other hand he willfully and purposely gave seven the nuke to put on that civilian ship. Then the writers just memoryholed it like it never happened because it didn't jive with the shit they were making up as they went along. Like him ending up as some divine figure in the end.

>>212907275
We all make mistakes.

>>212906920
Shut cho goofy ass up

>>212907378
Babylon 5 is considered "deep" by people who unironically call comic books "graphic novels."

>>212907404
Nobody ITT is talking about it being good because it's deep. They are saying that the story is good because it's a well written story with well written characters. (Which unironically are deep like Londo)

>>212899989
>X-files didn't have a major plot arc
You clearly didn't watch the show.

>>212907616
>nobody it's saying it's good because it's deep
>goes on to say it's good because it's deep
lol, you really are delusional

>>212907616
Don't feed the trolls, he's just trying to collect (you)'s.

>>212907404
name something you consider deep
>GAY8W

>>212907739
Battlestar Galactica

case in point

>>212907730
Miami Vice > Babylon 5

>>212899867 (OP)
it's still a KINO show
contemporary shows can't even come close

>>212907870
True Detective season 1 was the last time TV was great.

>>212907889
>Severance
>Andor

I beg to differ

>>212907966
I don't have Disney or Apple plus.

>>212907994
Apple plus is the best channel out right now. They are mogging the rest so hard it's not even funny.

And no I have ever owned an apple product in my life

>>212899867 (OP)
>>212900059
Both have brilliant openers, great first seasons, and then drop off after that. I guess I liked the Pegasus/Resurrection Ship story from S2 of BSG too. Michelle Rodriguez single-handedly ruined Lost for me.

>>212908087
WALLLLLLLLTTTTTTT
WALLLLLLLLTTTTTTT
Was way worse.

>>212899867 (OP)
That's TV in a nutshell for you but yeah I loved Galactica and watched it as it was coming out live in the early 2000's. I felt really let down by the series and BG and a few other TV shows are why I have the opinion that TV is all made up as you go slop for the most part and even the really satisfying shows that you tune in and watch over the years for the plot and characters end up not sticking the landing at all because people get tired, things change and there's too long of a timeline for things to go wrong.

I really liked the aspect of the mythological/technological line-riding they went with in the early seasons, did the Arrow of Apollo teleport them? Was it an advanced hologram? Was it a supernatural miracle? Who knows!

The 13th tribe could have been some sweet high tech but super mythological shit, then it devolved into family drama, " *Not God wink* did it", and DUH FINAL FIVE

>>212908087
I never got into Lost even when it was airing. Deep down somehow I knew it was a long road to nowhere. However for anyone looking for the true and worthy spiritual successor to BSG let me put forth exhibit A. Pic rel surpasses BSG imo and is my favorite show of all time. Expanse has tried to continue to carry the torch for dark melodrama sci-fi i but for me SGU was the peak. With a decent ending to boot.

>>212908375
I wouldn't consider "and their adventures continue maybe they all don't die because we got canceled" to be a very good ending but to each their own.

>>212908427
They are still out there somewher solving the mysteries of the universe.

>>212908458
I want to believe, I also liked it but there are way better sci fi shows.

>>212908530
For my own personal taste I prefer it when things are played straight with no meming. On top of that SGU has the best visuals of any sci fi show ever in history that hasn't been surpassed or had anything even in the same league until current era shows like Andor and Foundation. That's a long time to hold the title for best of the best space opera special fx on television. Like Expanse wasn't even in the same league visually even though it came out a decade later.

>>212899989
>That one didn't have a major plot arc
I'm sure the other 2 comments already pointed out that if did and called you retarded but... It did. You're retarded.

>>212900515
>X-files was the first show with complex myth arc
No it wasn't.

>>212908841
If you are talking sci fi shows with deep lore it was. Otherwise you are talking about standard soap operas like Dallas and Melrose Place.

>>212905796
Actually kinda interesting how every show used to be like this. Even something like 24 which has a tight timeline was made up as they went along with no long-term planning yet they pulled it off many seasons in a row.

>>212909247
TV was better for it. Every TV show has to be like HBO now.

Justice for Boomer.

>>212910007
NTA but I think my brain is wired differently now from watching current shows. I can't remember the last time I watched a full season of episodic television or if I even could. It's all season long story arc now where every episode is a cliffhanger.

One thing I do prefer is weekly episodes over dropping the season all at once because the weekly discussion is half the fun which you don't get with Netflix style full season drops and then it's gone in a week with zero cultural impact.

>>212910073
>My dick for Boomer

Fixed

>>212908375
please tell me this is an ironic shitpost. I'm not that shitting on SGU that much, but jesus christ man, it was not a very good show and at best it was a bad knockoff of BSG.

>>212900811
>writers strike only arguably fucked up s2 heroes
This is such bullshit that you must have literally been 10 years old or less when the strike happened, or you didn't experience it at all.
Scrubs for example, one of the most beloved sitcoms at the time, took a swift bullet to the head during the strikes that the show and the cast never managed to recover from.

>The name of the place?
>IS BABYLON 5

>>212910545
If the music was just a bit better in the opening them, it would easily be THE best opening in any television series by a landslide. The voiceover every episode is pure, crystallised KINO

>>212909247
24 was super formulaic "Oh no, STU is infiltrated by spy and/or captured", "villian is cornered, but somehow escapes", "villian appears to be generic arab terrorist in the first half of the season, but then turns out to be white greedy politician", "Jack goes rogue, but it always lasts like 2/3 of an episode before his name is cleared"

>>212908745
Dude SGU started in 09 and ended in 2011. It hasn't even been that long lmao
It's literally a decade between the ending and the release of Andor btw

>So that's it huh
>Until we find Earth
>We're stuck on this... Battlestar Galactica
>*Drums start pounding*

>>212908979
I mean Babylon 5 literally aired months after the X-Files and TXF notoriously didn't get the Mytharc into full swing until really the 2nd season after leaning heavily on online fan theories formed during the first season. Not discrediting Carter either, I actually am a very big fan of us despite the fact that he's a largely rubbish writer. He undeniably makes good shows still. But to claim X-Files started serial storytelling in sci fi shows is a stretch.
What about Blakes 7?

>>212910511
that's just ridiculous, scrubs was trash from the start there's no way you could notice a quality change

>>212910511
Heroes was fucked up because it was supposed to be an anthology series with a new cast every season but once it blew up the bigwigs said they had to keep the s1 cast which fucked everything up

>>212910425
>t. seething SG1cel

SGU was peak I tell you PEAK and I will never forgive you raging homo faggots for crying bitching and moaning until it got cancelled. FUCK... YOU

>>212910864
I am aware yes. But Heroes was not the only show affected.

>>212910863
Yeahhh underageb& right here. You weren't around newfren that much is obvious. Shit on Scrubs all you like, doesn't change how enormously popular it was when it was airing. As for not noticing quality changes pretty sure every single person remembers Kelso retiring in Season 7 and being replaced with Cox, only for the show to have to take a few weeks hiatus before returning with Kelso back as Head of Medicine. They literally aired even more episodes out of order, but no, you're right we should take the word of a dumb brainless zoomer who wasn't even alive at the time that nobody "could notice a quality change" kek....

>>212910864
Heroes was also shit from the beginning. It was all hype and the creator has made nothing but slop since.

>>212899867 (OP)
The way network television worked was that it was a careful balance between trying to tell a coherent and compelling narrative while also trying to keep the show running as long as possible. They had to keep the producers happy while also having to get permission to end the show on their terms. This often created shows like Lost where the writers had a story they wanted to tell but had to keep padding it out. BSG struck a good balance with almost zero filler and only one bad episode, and even all the later religious stuff was always there from the beginning of the show, people just overlook it.

>>212911112
BSG was an embarrassment after season 2. You need to take the corporate cock out of your mouth.

>ywn load up into a raptor with marines and make multiple jumps across the known universe to save the last survivors of humanity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaKD-b3ex1U&list=RDzaKD-b3ex1U&start_radio=1
GOAT show

>>212911210
It ruled and pretending to hate it and being cynical isn't a personality.

>>212910805
>Blakes 7

I'm American bro. I literally just had to google it to see what it was. Like I've heard the name before but had no idea what it was.

>>212911231
Talking like you are 14 isn't a personality either.

>>212911112
Again, simply isn't true. From the very beginning Lost was Mystery Box slop where the entire premise was predicated on something the writers had no idea about. The main premise and many many many subsequent plotlines were all setups with no foreseen payoffs resulting in lazy contrived end points. Tv shows before this didn't rest on this kind of bullshit, they could make it up as they went along because they were never pretending with plotlines that they were specifically going somewhere.

>>212911231
I wouldn't go as far as that Anon but BSG did fall off in the later seasons. The writers just went completely off the deep end. I mean sure it still mogs most shows overall but the drop off in the later seasons was pretty steep and it's a meme that the show sticks the landing. Because the whole thing had already flown off the rails by then.

>>212911436
>Starbuck disappers
>She was an angel all along
One of the stupidest plotlines in history.

>>212911430
Well I'm just going off what the LOST writers said themselves. They had a story in mind but were forced by the studio to keep the show going for longer which is why they had that whole season where they got off the island and all just had to get back. People forget that almost every mystery in the show has a payoff and there are multiple payoffs in literally every episode.

>>212911488
Her being a spiritual being was hinted at from season 1. Go back and watch it again.

>>212911506
There is no payoff for locke, he gets shafted hard.

>>212911488
You are not wrong.

>>212911543
No I don't think I will, happy for you that you found something to amuse you.

>>212910980
Alright you're just baiting now, sorry I fell for it.

>>212911506
They've admitted they didn't know what the island was in the beginning, which was the entire premise of the show. That, and the other "payoffs", were pulled out of their asses. Also, the idea the writers weren't reading bulletin boards and swiping the ideas of what people thought the "payoff" should be is also up in the air.

>>212911543
>Ron Moore literally says they didn't know where Starbuck's plotline was going
>dimwits believe there hints to her being an angel in S1 regardless
Always the same.

>>212911253
Okay well googling it should show you that it came out almost 20 years before The X-Files still. Hell even the original Star Trek runs started incorporating some longstanding story threads in them.
Granted X-Files helped make this format more popular, no denying that. But it didnt pioneer it. Other shows from the same era were doing it too (B5 is probably the best example). Stuff like Buffy too even though it was a couple years later.

>>212911601
They also admitted that they would actively change where they were going with a plotline if they felt the audience was able to predict it. Ahem dinosaurs. Ahem purgatory.

>>212911587
I'm not baiting. I'm still mad that SG1 fans seethed, complained, bitched and moaned non stop and heavily contributed to SGU getting cancelled.

>>212899898
This is the right AND wrong answer. The X-Files alien mytharc ended when the Syndicate was burned to death by the alien rebels (this was mid season 6). They should have either ended the show that season or just did more seasons with only standalone eps. Instead the created a new branch of the mytharc they already finished.

>>212911583
Leoben literally tells her in season 1

>>212911837
NTA but then it should have been some 2deep4u allegory. Not fucking literal. It's an asspull and retarded.

>write popular character out of the show
>make up some spiritual mumbo jumbo excuse
>i-it t-totally counts and was super deep planned from day one we promise because someone used a common phrase haha

I love when a show filters atheists AKA midwits. Case in point
>>212911488
>>212912238

Anyone got an explanation for how the fuck is starbuck not a cylon?

>>212912448
Because she is the angel Michael, it's a Christian allegory.

>>212912238
She was never written out of the show. She died and was resurrected within the same season.

>>212912448
The fact that the show barely even considered it was embarrassing. Every single thing that they knew pointed to her being a skinjob and yet it's barely brought up.

>>212912380
I'm not an Atheist and I still think it's retarded. They simply wrote themselves into so many corners that an actual literal Deus Ex was the only way out. They clearly got over their skis in the writers room. It happens.

>>212912448
God did it

>>212911793
writers strike was in 2007

that said I kind of miss the days when tv shows had 20 episode seasons split into two halves.

I remember that browser game too, I barely played it though. What I did play was some freespace mod with battlestar ships like vipers and cylon raiders. There was also some Battlestar RTS game years ago that I never played.

>>212912524
Because by that point in the show, none of the characters would have cared. The lines between human and cylon were already beginning to blur. Athena had already been accepted as one of the crew for a full season at that point.

>>212912238
Who the fuck are you talking about?
>>212912448
She's not one of the 12 models, simple as.
She died in the black hole thing or whatever it was and was brought back to life in a brand new viper by god so she could guide humanity to Earth.
Which ends up being the wrong Earth anyway so what the shit

Anyone else old enough to have used the IMDB forums?
Back before /tv/ even existed as a board I used to post there about battlestar. There was this one guy there who was a RDM hater, like he HATED RDM and the 2004 series with such a passion, he went by spiderman or something can't remember his name but everyone always dunked on him because he kept coming back to get humiliated, he was a defender of the original Battlestar Galactica and couldn't stand that there was a remake.

Used to argue with that guy all the fucking time, I miss those IMDB forums man, before 4chan I spent so much fucking time there discussing shows like battlestar and lost

>>212899867 (OP)
Im glad the reboot that was in the works just died a couple months ago. It's WAY to soon for a reboot.

>>212899867 (OP)

To be fair, BSG's final two seasons were being produced during the 2008-2009 writers' strike, in fact IIRC it was actually cut short from the planned five to four (don't quote me on that though). If the strike hadn't occurred, the show's finale would have been a lot stronger.

>>212912683
https://filmboards.com/

>>212912683
I used to post on the Rotten Tomatoes forums waaaaay back before they wiped it and started over.

>>212912683
>>212912728
Oh and also there's this if you want to hunt down those spiderautist posts from way back when
https://restoreimdbboards.com/

>>212912701
In 5 years, we will be as far away from the BSG reboot as the reboot was from the original show.

>>212912701

It should be a rule that there needs to be a minimum of 20 years from the release of the final installment before IPs are allowed to be rebooted and that the person overseeing production needs have spent at least several years studying the original work in detail. They need to understand it on a level comparable to the original creator.

>>212912803
>>212912728
thanks anon, didn't know this existed I want to see what he was posting if I can find it lmao, wonder if I can even find my own posts though I can't even remember my account name or anything

>>212912816
But then we wouldn't have gotten gems like The Amazing Spiderman... or Josh Trank's Fantastic Four???

>>212912855
I believe if you use the extension I linked you they managed to archive all the forums or at least the vast majority, it's obviously not as active anymore but it's still ~relatively~ active
Have fun anon

>>212912644
He's talking about the writers and the misguided Anons ITT that think it was somehow planned all along and not just another in a string of later season asspulls to ether write themselves into a corner or fail to convincingly write themselves out of said corner.

>>212912615
There's literally a plot where there's a civil war over letting cylons on ships and Starbuck isn't called a cylon.
>We don't know what you are!
No. She's a fucking cylon. Everything points to her being a cylon. Being an angel is so far down the list it isn't even a question.

>Wait, Six also had a chip in her brain?
>Gaius was a cylon who could project?
>They're both angels?
Who cares!

>>212913220
>Be so unbelievably fucking hot that everyone IRL simply treats you as a walking sex object to the point that it's tiresome.

It's not the worst problem in the the world to have but I can see where she's coming from holy hell.

i just re-watched the first two eps of farscape. ive missed it.

>>212914075
It's a good show
>>212913220
"Gaius has a chip in his brain" was much better than the angel thing, the latter of which barely makes sense and contradicts how she acts prior to deciding that's what it was.

>>212914075
Gave it multiple shots back in the day but never could get into it. The universe felt too random.

>>212914075
It's still the peak.

>>212899867 (OP)
>Zoomer discovers how television writing works

>>212914878
It's a little different with something like BSG or Lost than it is something like say, Breaking Bad. The latter didn't have some grand plan for how the story would play out either, but the difference is Breaking Bad doesn't have a whole lot of mystery or cryptic foreshadowing to it.
BSG foreshadows tons of shit that the writers didn't have any idea or plan for at the time they wrote the foreshadowing. There's also a lot of questions that the audience assumes will have some sort of answer, but the answer hadn't been thought of by the writers when the first asked the question either.
It's not an unusual way to write television at all, but it's definitely more noticeable in a show like BSG than it is in something else.

>>212899867 (OP)
Twin Peaks. JJ learned it from Lynch.

>>212903051
this

>>212911488
Whoa, nice numbers dude. Check check check

>>212901201
>the lack of military support vessels in the fleet.
I mean, we start the whole thing with the cylons targeting military specifically and Galactica surviving because it's a piece of shit from a billion years ago that they didn't even notice

>>212900861
>because if we don't we will make robots that will destroy us again.
Not robots, god
The series was very explicit about god throwing a hissy fit against humans because they managed to achieve a high enough tech level that they could make robots
They even straight up show the magical parts around the end

>>212915033
It's a cheap and lazy way of writing. Lindlehof even had the audacity to claim his form of writing was like a complex crossword puzzle.
>I'm drawn to a certain level of ambiguous storytelling that requires hard thought and work in the same way that the 'New York Times' crossword puzzle does: Sometimes you just want to put it down or throw it out the window, but there's a real rewarding sense if you feel like you've cracked it.
Motherfucker it requires thought and intelligence to make a crossword puzzle because you have to know the answers!

>>212915366
By the latter half of the final season they were showing how people were beginning to no longer identify with their colonies and were starting to identify more with their ships, and with crew rotations on the labour ships and everything that happened on New Caprica it was blending all of the last vestiges of that colonial rivalry out.

>>212910073
OK, Boomer.

>>212900861
>The show went through great lengths to show how divided at times the colonials were

By the latter half of the final season they were showing how people were beginning to no longer identify with their colonies and were starting to identify more with their ships, and with crew rotations on the labour ships and everything that happened on New Caprica it was blending all of the last vestiges of that colonial rivalry out.

But yeah it is also a cop out to have them just erase all their technology and fleet but they had to do it or else they'd have to explain why we haven't had FTL drives and space colonies for the last 100,000 years.

>>212915428
I mean to extent I get it with TV writing since it is usually a years long process where you don't know how many seasons you're going to get, the availability of actors over that time period, or any of the other things that could go wrong, and most writers don't have the JMS autism that allows them to write a bunch of contingencies to handle actors leaving or coming back. But if you're literally writing things like "there's five final Cylons and they're super important", why would you not give any thought to who the final five are? It's honestly just kind of bizarre. I'm not a writer so maybe I just don't get it but how would that not drive you crazy while you're doing it?

>>212899867 (OP)
>>212900059
But it's also no coincidence that these were the biggest airing TV shows in old /tv/.
>>212906294
It was done because in betting pools about who was possibly in the final five Tigh ranked second to dead last, right behind Adama himself.
A lot of BSG's problems are Ron Moore huffing his own farts trying to be clever. It's pretentious in the dictionary definition sense of the word.

It feels like arc-based television started with high aspirations (your NYPD Blue, Babylon 5s), but eventually it got to the level of One Piece where everything is made up a moment beforehand. Fuck me, even planned trilogies are like that now.

>>212899867 (OP)
no twas lost

>>212900210
Lol that was stupid af, I remember show True Blood where the whole cast ended up as secret vampire or werewolf because writers had no clue what to do next

>>212899867 (OP)
You're just talking about 90%+ of TV shows with (multi) season long stories.
I'll take a well constructed 1 to 2 episode story over a trash fire season long arc any day.

>>212917238
Sounds like the same shit.

>>212899867 (OP)
I didn't understand why they were in New York at the end

>>212910987
it was just a joke about how garbage the show was you retarded sperg. it was basically for teenage girls man if you're 35~ and still like it, you're broiled

>>212918717
which show?