If I wasn't supposed to Like Paul Atreides, why did they make him so cool?

Frank Herbert is a bad writer

In the book it's easy to hate him, in the movie they turned him into some super cool superhero who only does good.

>>213321396
This. Herbert had some neat ideas but his writing style is so bad holy shit.

>>213321425
He's acting out a part in a play just as much as he is in the book, and at first he's disgusted by himself for it because he knows beforehand that his role will lead to the deaths of billions and he's taking desperate people for a ride. Hence the mental breakdown he has in the first movie and his hesitancy in the second movie to go through with it at first

>>213321384 (OP)
>>213321509
I thought the whole point was to kill billions to save the species as a whole? Like from some super aliens that are going to invade us in the future. Doesn't that make him a tag more morally grey?

>>213321384 (OP)
Typical leftist cuckold take

>>213321384 (OP)
There's no cool about this ugly jewish midget

But isn't this guy just a character in a movie?

>>213321581
no that's his son who does it, Paul was never willing to do what it took to avoid that

>>213321384 (OP)
>>213321396
>>213321425
>>213321452
>>213321509
>>213321581
It’s okay, leave it all to me.

>>213321384 (OP)
>If I wasn't supposed to Like Paul Atreides
You're actually a fucking idiot and you should probably read the books instead of reading the twitter feeds of people who didn't read the books.
You're supposed to like and identify with paul. He is your POV character. He's just trying his best to avenge his father. It isn't until he's already leading the fremen he takes the water of life and realizes just how badly he's fucked everything up, forever.
The lesson isn't "hate paul" its be wary of anyone you think might be a messiah because they wield dangerous and destructive forces that remove your personal agency.

>>213321396
>dune messiah
>paul and stilgar are discussing the jihad
>go back and watch old holotapes or something about previous tyrants
>book only names stalin, mao and genghis khan
so you're telling me in 10,000 years no one came along that killed more people than three guys everyone alive who read the book already knows? herbert was a fucking hack

>>213321384 (OP)
>faggots kill your dad, take over your city, and enslave the people
>unite the people that were also fucked over by the same faggots
>get revenge
>"NOOOOOO UR THE LE BAD GUY!!!"

>>213321396
I liked Hellstrom's Hive.

>>213321581
>I thought the whole point was to kill billions to save the species as a whole? Like from some super aliens that are going to invade us in the future.
Paul refused to look at the golden path, it terrified him, because he was born a human and raised with Atreides morality, and to make the golden path work you had to be an abomination. It was set in motion from the moment paul took the spice, and was unavoidable. Paul tries to cheat his fate, but doesn't realize chani took so much spice to counteract the contraceptives irulan snuck into her food that her twins were the pre-born, and leto II was prescient, and was invisible to his father's oracular sight (prescience can't detect prescience, which is why the navigator helps cover the conspiracy in dune messiah).
Leto II's golden path, his tyranny, and reign was relatively peaceful. The whole point of his reign was to give the human race all the things it claimed to want. Peace, stability, safety, and he stuffs it down their throats with the heel of an iron boot. The point is, over generations and generations people build up a psychic reflex against anyone promising peace and stability at the price of their freedoms and being masters of their own fate.
Meanwhile Leto II has a breeding program where he tries to find an Atreides descendant that has myopic prescience, basically it would make them prescient enough to be invisible to other prescients, but not prescient enough to look into the future and lock humanity into a singlular vision like paul did.
This also forces the Tielaxu to figure out how to artificially produce melange, and the Ixians to develop technology to fold space without needing a navigator, as well as a mechanical way to shield against prescience.
The golden path is leto II pressuring the human race to produce someone capable of killing a god, and breaking them of the spice addiction/spice monopoly.

>>213321752
>He's just trying his best to avenge his father.
No. He's also trying to save the one's he loves. His family and Chani and by extension the Fremen. What would happen to the Fremen if Paul didn't help them with his powers? They'd all be fucking dead. That's why Villeneuve is fucking up with his movies by making Chani hate him. Breadtubers are, as usual, confusing morally grey with pure evil.

>>213321766
The Butlerian Jihad is explicitly mentioned as a time a lot of people died
It's also the foundational event of the Duniverse

>>213321766
Anon paul is explicitly bringing up the deepest most ancient history. In the dune universe they're so far in the future that earth as mankind's origin has been completely forgotten unless you have other-memory.
Stilgar laughs when paul mentions they only killed MILLIONS of people with an army. Paul mentions they didn't have space ships and laser guns, but the point he was making is that the Atreides would be remembered in history as tyrants and butchers who celebrated their atrocities with war crimes.
Its best to read Messiah like a classical greek tragedy. Its paul desperately flailing as the walls close in around him, and desperately trying to find the way out. He knows he can't cheat fate, but he's human so he still strives to beat the game, and his very pyrrhic victory.

>>213321766
I think it would've been fun if they mixed in some IRL people with some fictional evil people to sell it

>>213321639
do you honestly see brown hair and think "he's gotta be jewish"?

>>213321384 (OP)
I thought the point (at least in the movies) is that he foresees all the different futures and has chosen a path that he doesn't want to walk but does it for the greater good.

>>213322768
Curly hair and nose is what makes him look Jewish anon.

>>213322188
They were safe the moment they were saved. Paul had vengeance on his mind the minute he begins to wield the fremen as a weapon.
He's been trained by his mother, and is aware of the Panoplia Propheticus. He is also a mentat, and trained to be the Ducal heir. He cares about his people, but he also understand statecraft.
And you're the only one trying to enforce this color coded morality onto anything in this thread.
I mean for fucks sake all the dune books piss in the face of such simple binary evaluations (Durrr iz it gud or bad!)

>>213322010
All this convolution because Herbert wasn't man enough to carry out his Chosen One trope.

>>213321766
>Hitler, Genghis Khan and Gloppo

>>213322815
googled. he is. i concede

>>213321384 (OP)
Paul has no right options, that’s the point.
He either dies, dooming the fremen and humanity as a whole in the process, or he survives, whereupon he either allows a mass genocide to occur or becomes a tyrant in order to alleviate the damage.

By the time Paul was aware of his options it was too late to have any good ones.

I don't understand the praise for this movie. On its face I can't take a skinny ass twink like Chamalamolet seriously as a badass fighter. I can only suspend my disbelief so much

>>213322839
What does that even mean? Paul was the chosen one.
You're angry about a book you haven't read because you're a mentally ill brown with a micropenis who is desperate for attention. Go take a walk.

>>213321384 (OP)
>fictional character
>in history

>>213322926
Are you this upset at the fact that no one liked Messiah or Children? I'm sorry the public wasn't receptive to the divinely prescient sand worm guy. It is an objectively stupid turn of events.

>>213322879
>He either dies, dooming the fremen and humanity as a whole in the process
He see's it in his vision when he takes the water of life, the Jihad goes on with or without him. The least damaging future was the one where he existed to curb its more destructive aspects.
He unleashed the fremen and now that they knew how strong they really were, and how to fight back, it was inevitable.

>>213322823
>They were safe the moment they were saved.
What the fuck does that even mean? Who saved them? Paul. The only way he could save them was by accepting the role of messiah that would inevitable lead to the jihad.
>And you're the only one trying to enforce this color coded morality onto anything in this thread.
It's literally the op, you dunce.

>>213321384 (OP)
>in history
these people do realize this is a fictional character from a book/movie, right? right?

>>213322963
>schizo non sequitur
take your pills
no more (You)'s

>>213321384 (OP)
>kid doesn't want to be the messiah
>girlfriend calls him a loser and he'll never be the messiah
>circumstances force him to become the messiah
>girlfriend hates that he's the messiah

What the fuck is zandaya's problem?

>>213322972
>Who saved them?
The fremen. Jessica is the reverend mother and Paul is accepted into the sietch with a wife and everything.
He didn't have to craft them into a force to fight the harkonnen. He didn't have to become desert batman.
He chose to do that because he was the son of a duke murdered by the Baron with the approval of the emperor.
Paul's plan, from the moment he begins fighting back, is to take arrakis back for the Atreides, blackmail the emperor and the spacing guild by threatening to reveal the emperor moved against a great house, and that he could destroy the spice, and that he would take the throne.
The whole chapter where he's trapped in the tend with his mom is him vowing revenge for Duke Leto.
Then the rest of the book is him doing exactly that for that reason while promising the fremen he'll turn Arrakis green.
Then again when he decides to wear his father's ring.

>>213323032
hahaha get it guys hahaha he's bad you're not supposed to like him hahah genocide!

>>213322861
>>Hitler, Genghis Khan and Gloppo

>>213323032
>>213323278
>Stilgar returns to Paul
>"Sire, I can't find any evidence for that last one"

>>213323259
Paul is accepted into the sietch because he is manipulating the Fremen from the moment his back is against the wall. If he didn't use them to fight the Harkonnen, he and everyone he cares about, including the Fremen, would be wiped out once Feyd arrives. They can only survive if Paul accepts his role and the jihad that follows. He saves them and they destroy him for it.

>>213323426
hes not talking about the holocaust, he's talking about WWII

>>213323548
oddly specific number, especially since tens time that number died in WWII

>>213323548
Hitler killed far more than 6 million in WWII.

>>213323580
>>213323605
>1965
>anyone suggesting muh six gorillion as the death toll of the holocaust

>>213323605
6 million are only ones that matter

>>213323781
>how would people living in 1965 have access to a death toll cited in the Nuremberg trials
it is a mystery

>>213321384 (OP)
He was a victim of fate.

>>213321396
He was pretty good but probably too smart.

I recently learned that Iron Maiden's "To Tame A Land" is about Dune.

>>213321396
>t. Brian Herbert

>>213324612

>>213321688
>builds an army of strong independent womyn
Surely he will be the good guy

>>213321384 (OP)
Eren Yeager was cooler

>Paul Atreides
>Anakin Skywalker
>Eren Yaeger
Why is the genocidal twink with long hair such a popular archetype with fans?

>>213324867
>Anakin
>Twink
Hayden may have looked boyish, but Anakin is canonically built like a brick shithouse

>Paul is le bad person
>opinions people who didn't read the book got from listening to youtubers
Paul wages a war against the insane genocidal family who murdered his father, realises a little too late he opened pandora's box, and spends the rest of his life trying to set it right
Explain how he's a bad person.

>>213324983
Because the entire time, he's fully aware that pursuing his goal of revenge against his family's killers will result in galactic genocide down the line, and still does it anyway

>>213325032
the alternative being what?

>>213321452
Filtered

>>213324867
Because they're naive idiots who realize what they were doing was wrong when they get older

>>213321384 (OP)
Why can't zoomers into moral ambiguity?

>>213324574
Yeah, they couldn't call the song Dune because Frank got butthurt

>>213321384 (OP)
>Let me tell you something you'll only learn reading the books
KWAB

what did this guy do for weeks?

>>213324574
A lot of Iron Maiden's songs are about nerd shit. It's kind of funny, when you know the references, and you know that oblivious metal heads are headbanging to Brave New World, or Out of the Silent Planet, probably thinking there's something really sick and meaningful about the lyrics.

>>213324814
almost like it's being set up to fail...

The jihad was only inevitable because to Paul the idea of not avenging his father and clan was unthinkable. He could have stopped it at any time by just not doing any of the very specific things he personally had to do to bring it about.

>>213325129
I've never understood this. I don't know why they weren't allowed to call the song Dune but they were allowed name Dune in the song and have all the lyrics be explicit unambiguous references to the text.

>>213322963
>no one liked Messiah or Children
>Initially selling over 75,000 copies, it (Children) became the first hardcover best-seller in science fiction. The novel was critically well-received for its plot, action, and atmosphere and was nominated for the Hugo Award for Best Novel in 1977.

>>213325293
paul had a vision that even if he died before meeting the fremen there would be a jihad led by surviving atreides loyalists

>>213324933
Anon... movies are the canon

>>213325375
I don't see how this is supposed to work since only someone with abilities like Paul could possibly pass as the Lisan Al Gaib

>>213321384 (OP)
>one of the worst people in history
...They know this isn't real, right?

>>213325293
Paul did the right thing. What are you gonna do? Just let the Harkonnens win? Bit gay.

>>213325375
That was just cope on his part. How would it work? How would random Atreides people unite the tribes? How would they take Arakeen without access to the atomics?

>>213325207
Goon.

>>213325440
IIRC the implication was there would be a civil war in the imperium because of what the emperor did, whether or not paul/the fremen were involved

>>213325529
yeah he was a harkonnen goon, i get it

but what would he do while waiting?

>>213321425
>>213321452
Filtered zoomies.

>>213325207
>>213325529
It seems like he died doing what he loved

>>213321581
No Paul never had a great goal in mind it was just petty revenge for the death of his father.

>>213324867
Paul isn't a twink in the book. Dude is a chad who can see the future and cucks the galactic emperor's daughter with a fremen slut with khazar milkers.

>>213321384 (OP)
>Pathological liar
>Can literally see the future

>>213325529
That whole gear was black when they walled him in!

>>213324814
>Becomes a monster in order to save humanity
He was

>>213321384 (OP)
>jewkonens occupy sand land
>freepalestinemen fight them
>hero leads great jihad to murder every jewkonen in the galaxy
>hero is also 1/4 jewkonen so he can't be called anti-jewkonete
i see how people could like him

>>213326392
>becomes a clit
Truly the author was ahead of the times

>>213326399
>occupy
It was owned by a noble family before freemen landed there.

>>213321384 (OP)
Because they didn't make the sequel books where he's some blind regretfag

>Tyrant they yelled so easily
>I laugh
>No tyrant ever gave back so much

>>213321384 (OP)
You are supposed to like him, but that twink can't act his way out of a paper bag. I bet his parents laugh that Hollywood thinks he can act after years of seeing right through his bullshit every day.

>>213326476
Tyran meant a different thing in those times.

>>213321396
>I've never actually read the books
>>213321639
This anon gets it.

>>213321384 (OP)
That guy had zero charisma. Old Paul was so much cuter.

>>213321384 (OP)
>He is literally one of the worst people in history.
lmao this loser says this shit like he ever actually existed

>>213326606
I mean even in that universe there is his son that is trying to be the worst person in history

>>213321425
>only does good
>starts a galactic jihad that he knows will result in the death of billions for revenge
????

>>213326865
The only evil he did was being too pussy to follow golden path

>>213326865
>starts
lol

>>213321688
>look at me Duncan, I turned myself into a sandworm! wuuba luuba space spice!

>>213326570
>his super power is screaming
Truly the champion of an all female organization. Meanwhile only chad Paul is pic related

>>213321384 (OP)
I understand that Paul is a complex character whose actions end up unleashing a jihad that kills billions, but what I don't get is why he's supposed to be a warning against charismatic leaders and false prophets. The guy literally has the power to see the future and gives Fremens everything they wanted. He didn't even want to start the Jihad. That was just the Fremens being turbo fundanentalists. And from Paul's point of view he was mostly trying to save humanity from extinction, and when that path got too brutal he didn't want to keep going on with it. If anything, the guy was a master of self restrain and one of the best leader you could wish for.

>>213327602
You lack media literacy. Paul is the villain of the story

The original movie was and is so much better.

Paul decided that the deaths of 61 billion people and the extinction of dozens of cultures and religions was an acceptable price to pay to get revenge for his family. Then when he had the opportunity to actually start a course of events that would ensure the future survival of humanity, he was too much of a bitch to endure the personal sacrifice it wouldn't require of him, and saddled his son with the responsibility instead. He's absolutely a piece of shit.

>>213328663
>Paul decided that the deaths of 61 billion people and the extinction of dozens of cultures and religions was an acceptable price to pay
But those people weren't his people. He had no responsibility over them. And they were killed precisely because they refused to become his people. A leader doesn't owe anything to his enemies.

>>213328663
If I remember correctly, by the time he decided to step up as the Lisan al-Gaib and use the fremen in his revenge he had already seen that the jihad was unavoidable and that, in fact, if he didn't become their messiah it was going to be far more destructive and brutal.

>>213321951
Paul was a pussy. Leto II was the shit.

>>213321384 (OP)
He was a pretty typical jew.

>the only correct posts in this thread is from one anon and the reply to him
>the reply has 0 quotes
Jesus retards either read the books or shut the fuck up. You don't know the story because you have watched some youtube videos and seen these two shitty movies
Every fucking dune thread is like this

>>213326570
I think the biggest problem is the portrayal of a naive kid turned hardened jihad leader.
Kyle was definitely better in that regard, but he also doesn't look like he's 15 years old, like Paul is supposed to be. Plus the fact that the second half of Lynch's Dune is shockingly rushed.
Timmy looks closer to 15 years old, but he played Paul almost exactly the same from the beginning of Part 1 to the end of Part 2. Kinda stoic and detached.

>>213321752
>The lesson isn't "hate paul" its be wary of anyone you think might be a messiah because they wield dangerous and destructive forces that remove your personal agency
But what happens in Dune is the opposite. It's Paul's agency that gets overruled by the Fremens. Paul literally gives the Fremen the keys of the kingdom.

>>213321396
Agreed, he made Paul a total badass with a sympathetic plight, then got butthurt that people thought he was the good guy.

>>213329022
>kinda stoic and detached
That’s all I’ve ever seen Timmy do.

>>213321384 (OP)
>Paul Atreides was a TERRIBLE PERSON. He was a TYRANT.

Yes, we know he was jewish.

>>213329022
>naive kid
Read the books

>>213322806
Yes, but what if the greater good is still evil? Hitler also walked the path that could have lead to the greater good had he finished his mission, but he still was a monster.

The amount of bookfag seethe in this thread is hilarious.

>RAAARRRRGGGHHH STOP TALKING ABOUT DUNE YOU HAVEN"T READ THE BOOKS GGGAAARRRRHHHH

I fart on bookfags. They inhale my anal gas.

ATREIDES!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGc999bv1kY

>>213326305
>Paul isn't a twink in the book
Fremen are all extremely skinny due to scarcity and Paul is a young nobleboy at the start. Unless you got a paragraph stating otherwise, it's fair to assume he's twinkmaxxed.

Who the fuck is that Twink? This is Paul Atreides

>>213325073
Sacrificing himself and dying before the fremens saw him as a messiah and could make him a martyr? Like an actual hero?

>>213329315
Wouldn't have stopped anything. He had a vision before he met the Fremen of what would happen if he died, and it was unavoidable there would be a war.

Do you think Jason Mamoa has asked Denis to film the scene where one of Duncan Idaho's clones is having sex with a 13 year old Fremen girl?

>>213321384 (OP)
>IF YOU KILL YOUR ENEMIES THEY WIN

>>213325032
>>213326289
>>213326865
>>213328663
>>213325293
>family and followers get annihilated from a treacherous attack that the emperor schemed up
>"if you fight back you're the evil one"
what is this cuckoldry?

>>213325032
>>213329315
read the book, you dont know what you're talking about

>>213329420
what do you mean?

>>213329420
Should make sure to add the gay Duncan scene, make it canon that he was receiving

Even if Paul leading the Fremen to Jihad was the least bloody option, he's still a bitch for refusing to lead humanity along the Golden Path himself. Saddling your own son with that task is arguably evil

>>213329335
Even if it didn't stop anything, then at least it wouldn't have been his fault. If you found a wallet lying on the street with a few thousand dollars and no ID, would you steal the money just because if you leave it where you found it surely someone else will steal it? Of course not. It would still be stealing and immoral. By not sacrificing himself by letting Jamis kill him, Paul became even more evil than the Harkonens. The novels are not subtle about this. Paul is the villain.

>>213329096
Not everyone has had the benefit of an education.

>>213329526
>it wouldn't have been his fault
But it would have been worse, even more destructive.
He took responsibility to limit the destruction from something that was inevitable.
Hence why he is called the greatest man in history.
You wouldn't do it because you're a coward and no one will ever know who you are lol.

>>213329420
To be fair she was 13 in Fremen years, which means she was actually around 17. Still a pedo, but it's not that outrageous.

>>213325032
The reason why Paul ultimately isn't a hero is because he DOESN'T actually follow through with the vision he sees and falters (which he knows is inevitable), forcing his son to pick up the pieces and become a galactic tyrant.

>>213329583
I'd rather be a nobody than being evil and thankfully most people agree with me. Did you watch the new Superman? Being moral is the new punk rock. People are tired of evil doers justifying their actions for the "greater good"

>>213325102
Eren was canonically not wrong though.

>>213329526
>If you found a wallet lying on the street with a few thousand dollars and no ID, would you steal the money just because if you leave it where you found it surely someone else will steal it?
This is a bad example.

More accurate would be this:
You find a wallet lying on the street with a few thousand dollars and no ID.

You're prescient and can see two futures: if you take the wallet, you've robbed someone.
If you DON'T take the wallet, you see that someone else will, and they'll buy a gun with that money and murder 100 people.

Which path do you take? The one that makes you a thief? Or the one that gets people killed?

>>213329468
I just realised that if Fremen engage in oral sex, every single girl would be a swallower since they're religious about not wasting a single drop of fluid

>>213329725
>Which path do you take?
The one that isn't immoral. Stealing is always wrong.

>>213329677
>Did you watch the new Superman?
Why would I? Anon, please, have some taste.

>>213328568
Because he didn't follow the golden path to its end and forced his son into it instead.

>>213329760
>The one that isn't immoral
Letting 100 people die is immoral.

Congratulations.

>>213321384 (OP)
You take Paul's side because he's a POV character and his enemies the Harkonnens are grotesquely, cartoonishly evil but basically every faction in this fucked-up hell future is kind of evil and there's no happy ending.

>>213329597
>17
>pedo
Weak bait.

>>213329857
the first step in avoiding b8 - is knowing of its existence

>>213329857
Teenagers are ready to do the needful, Saar

>>213321384 (OP)
I read a few books way back, Herbert is an ok writer, but imo hyperion saga is 1000x better

Dune is the star wars of scifi, normie tier

>>213323435
IIRC in the books, Jessica is upset the Bene Gesserit pushed a particular narrative on Dune, only reserved for the most terrible of worlds. But she knew how to take advantage of it, just as designed, which was why they sent their sisters out.

>there are giant lightning squid monsters called Elecrans that live far out at sea on Caladan
>they're seen so rarely most people just assume they're myths

What's your favorite piece of obscure Dune trivia?

>>213329022
yeah this will always be my mistake issue with kyle's performance. love all of his other performances to death, but he just came off like an aloof 30yr old man child in Lynch's Dune. lil timmy at least felt like an actual kid who's forced to become a man in dire circumstances

>>213329022
yeah this will always be my issue with kyle's performance. love all of his other performances to death, but he just came off like an aloof 30yr old man child in Lynch's Dune. lil timmy at least felt like an actual kid who's forced to become a man in dire circumstances

>>213322708
I never managed to finish Messiah, I just wanted to read more eco-political stuff..

>>213330318
The end scene with the captured emperor, though, he had no authority at all in his presence or timbre. I guess that's a problem picking pretty boys for this role.

>>213329677
>thankfully most people agree with me
imagine boasting about this...

>>213329760
what if your prescience showed you that not stealing the wallet directly leads to your death in the next hour somehow?

>>213328837
awfully convenient that no one else was prescient enough to contradict this

>>213329744
you haven't taken this line of thought far enough anon: all Fremen men have to either be completely abstinent or swallow their own cum when they wank off.

>>213329969
>hyperion saga
Is it really that good? I remember my room mate raving about it in college but I also remember it took him a full year to finish the book.

>>213330752
Fremen men don't fap. Why do you think they're so uptight, religious and eager to kill?

>>213330752
Making a fremen woman squirt must be the ultimate sexual taboo in fremen society.

>>213330816
unless she's sitting on your face

in which case it's a blessing from Shai-Hulud, the same way spitting is seen in a powerful way

>>213330816
>Making a fremen woman squirt
Urine is processed in the thigh packs, along with feces.

>>213330928
so they keep the stillsuits on for sex?

>>213330947
It's a society-wide latex fetish.

>>213328892
Is there a God Emperor Leto II chudjak? If not, there should be.

>>213329022

>>213321384 (OP)
>>213321623
>character who dies like a loser alone in the desert is literally me
Funny how rightoids always relate with the losing side.

>>213329022
Paul is the pinacle of an ancient breeding program to make a super human. From early childhood, he's tutored by sone of the best fighters the universe has to offer, one of the greatest mentats (who also *trains him to be a mentat*), and a Bene Gesserit. He's anything but naive. Even as a 15 year old, Paul Atreides should scream "menace."

>>213321384 (OP)
He was an asshole at the end of the second movie.

>>213323781
Yeah, everyone knows it was 11 million

>>213331156
You have poor media literacy if this was your takeaway for what happened in that third act. Either that or your a woman mad at what he did to chandeya

>>213327602
If anything it's a warning against destabalising systems, and empowering "moderate rebels".
Paul's status as a leader has almost nothing to do with anything. He just knocked over the first domino.

>>213329420
>>213329468

She would have been perfect as Alia.

>>213323548
Stalin killed 10 million in the great purge before WW2 even started and Mao killed more people than died in all of WW2 in the Great Leap Forward.

The first rule of the holocaust is DON'T TALK ABOUT THERMO DYNAMICS

>>213331069
why does she look so familiar?

>>213331236
>betrays your lover to start a genocide campaign
>nooooo he's actually le good

>>213331249
>If anything it's a warning against destabalising systems
This thread is so fucking bad. Paul's prescience was the first of its kind at that scale and far in the distance he saw the end of the human race if things remained as they were. Humanity was stagnating. Dune isn't about preserving the status quo jesus christ

>>213331313
She looks like my co-worker :D

>>213329744
>Fremen sex

You realize they literally NEVER bath, right?

>>213331279
Honestly good casting. Anya Taylor Joy would have been good casting if we were in 2016-2018 before she started losing weight and getting surgery

>>213331358
yeah they do

>>213331397
>Anya Taylor Joy

Fuck off with that ugly broad.

>>213331425
Did you see the part where there were more words after that. Fuck off autist

>>213331331
That was one of the later books though.
But fundementally I don't think Dune is a "warning" and I don't think Paul is the bad guy. That's reddit. I was being flippant.

>>213331403

They don't. When Paul and Jessica first arrive at Sietch Tabr, the Fremen can relax and they all take off their stilsuits and Paul mentions the stench.

Water is so precious that they dehydrate dead bodies to save the water, they're not going to waste it for washing.

>>213331358
>You realize they literally NEVER bath, right?
4chan mantra: "People who are literally you."

>>213331425
Bro she's already in the movie as Alia in a vision

>>213331451

You mean the part where you continue to be wrong? She was never attractive and has only gotten worse, you're either a shill or a dumbass zoomer.

>>213331555
I brought her up because that's literally who was cast. You clearly have some autistic obsession here, good luck with that

>>213323166
woman logic

>>213331318
If he didn't do that everyone dies by the way, including his lover

>>213321384 (OP)
>in history
zoomies cant separate fiction from reality

>>213331511
Yeah they do.

Anon, they bathe using sand :^D

>>213331457
That's true but it was foreshadowed plenty in Dune and Messiah was written in tandem. Fair enough, I'm just pissed off reading this thread where a bunch of retards weigh in with their chat gpt adjacent musings on character motivations and what the story is really about when they haven't even read the fucking material.

>>213326865
the Bene Gesserit spent hundreds of years building an atomic bomb and then got upset when somebody else pressed the detonate button before they could. They intentionally set up a situation in which 99% of people would've done what Paul did. They're the ones ultimately responsible.

>>213326865
>for revenge
you're confused because you haven't read the book

>>213331555
>>213331570
The boomer must have memory loss, he's getting that old I guess
https://youtu.be/ghpJjzdOQqY?t=32

>>213321384 (OP)
Did nothing wrong

Fuck fremen
Fuck harkonens
Fuck corrino
Fuck bene geserits
Fuck the guild

>>213321951
this was the impression i got from dunc. i don't understand how he was supposed to be interpreted as bad.

>>213331701
>proves my point

She is literally and objectively NOT ATTRACTIVE. She is the standard bearer for the nu-Hollywood cult that purposely casts ugly women.

>>213331656
true

>Harkonnen are evil because.... THEY JUST ARE, ok?!

Harkonnen mine the spice, Atreides mine the spice, what makes one the bad guys?

I feel like there was something missing with Baron Harkonnen's character to make him actually evil and not just a rival noble.

>>213331719
He's too much of a pussy to follow the golden path, so he absolutely did do wrong thoughbeit

>>213331765
The point was the other anon brought her up because she is already cast and in the second movie, you sperg

>>213331656
>the Bene Gesserit spent hundreds of years building an atomic bomb

A more accurate analogy would be the Bene Gesserit spending hundreds of years building TikTok so they can mind control the masses.

>>213329310
Based

>>213329310
That's Agent Dale Cooper

>>213331279
One of the most tranny looking women to ever walk the earth, but shes undeniably hot.

>>213331852
>pic
>don't read the books, just blindly hate
cringe desu

>>213331852
I'm sorry but the first three Brian Herbert books (the House series) were fun in a pulpy sci-fi way, even if there were a lot of clashes with the actual Dune books

>>213331807
Baron Harkonnen and his clan are rapacious bisexual pedophiles. they revel in rape and torture, knowing that they can do anything they want with no consequences. They hint at this but give the subject a wide berth in the films - we're shown that Baron mutilates/murders the young children attending his healing bath, we see the post-human monstrosity they keep as a pet, and we hear about the doctor's wife's torture.

>>213321384 (OP)
he killed billions of people to save quatrillions

>>213332069
I wonder why they didn't touch on his sexuality

>>213321384 (OP)
>a fictional character is one of the worst people in history

Explain this to me

>>213332052

No.

>>213331941
The black lodge connects to Arrakis

>>213330124
I haven't seen anyone else here post that stuff so I don't know. I listened to the original book while driving and improved don't remember anything like that.

Four scenes I wished any of the movies (disregarding the miniseries for now) would include:

1. The banquet scene: establish the society on Arrakis and the smuggler subplot

2. The Baron using artillery to seal the surviving Atreides fighting men in the caves of the Shield Wall mountains

3. Thufir Hawat meeting with Fremen the morning after the attack, discussing the Fremen capture of the artillery piece, and the subsequent Sardaukar attack

4. The Baron meeting with the Sardaukar and having a freakout about how they all look like the Atreides, and the Sardaukar colonel talks down to the Baron like he's a tard

>>213332094
for runtime reasons, they had to cut all the scenes of Baron Harkonnen masturbating to shigawire reels of Duncan Idaho.

>>213332052
NTA but I read the Sisterhood, Mentats, and Navigators trilogy after seeing that new show was based on the Sisterhood book. It was surprisingly enjoyable enough for me to want to finish the trilogy. Scott Brick's narration definitely helped. I wasn't a fan of the two sequel books he wrote (Hunters and Sandworms) but still glad I read them.

>>213331941
That's the guy hiding in the closet while Dennis Hopper went, "Mommy mommy mommy!"

>>213332243
based

>>213331807
They're alright bunch of faggots and rapists in the books. I'm not surprised that they just gloss over what gay "people" were like in Herbert's day in the remake.

>>213329310
I get what you're saying, but 1984 Paul unironically looks WAY more like a twink than 2023 Paul does. Timothy C is just a zillenial fuckboy; Kyle M looks like he has a "the usual" order at more than one high-end gay bar.

Paul was a fakecel who cucked out at the end thoughbeit

>>213332207
Don't forget the Atreides raid on Geidi Prime in the beginning. Why does EVERY adaptation skip that?

>the film cuts out the death of paul's first son
literally why

>>213332397
movie chani doesn't even want to breed with him

>>213330124
>Dune trivia?

If you can find this at a used book store, grab it.

>>213332370
I don't remember that. What happens?

>>213332472
it's especially tarded because it could've been an actual good reason for her to be mad at him at the end
>son dies
>she seeks revenge just like him but wants to then live life normally afterwards in the way her culture promotes
>instead he's like i'm emperor now and i'm gonna jihad the galaxy

i just finished dune messiah and i wanted to see illustrations / fan art and was shocked that there's fucking nothing no illustrations of paul with no fucking eye balls

>>213332207
>The banquet scene

That they just threw out this scene just goes to show how talentless and flat out stupid Hollywood is.

>>213332510
The Atreides are in the process of moving to Arrakis, and they hold a strategy meeting. Harkonnen agents and diehards have been annoying the Atreides, so Leto goes to Thufir and talks about the Emperor and Baron's personal spice stockpiles, and then tells Thufir they should hit the Baron's to humiliate him. So Leto and Thufir devise to take some of Idaho's men and even some Fremen (it's interesting to note that, lacking any other info on the Atreides military organization, it's described almost like a mafia family with Thufir, Halleck and Idaho running caporegimes with references to "their men" but not battalion or brigades or whatever) and they stage an attack on the Harkonnen homeworld. It's successful, and later on when the Baron is on Arrakis in the aftermath of the fall of House Atreides, he's still seething about how the Giedi Prime raid fucked up his plans and finances for the operation.

>>213322010
Intredasting. NTA but I also thought it was aliums.

>>213322815
>Curly

>>213332539
Yeah the film fucked up Chani bad

Why didn't they have the timeskip? Why no Alia in person?

>>213321384 (OP)
wasn't the whole point that he could see the future and the only way for humanity to survive was to start the holy war and eventually gather humanity against him or some shit?

>>213321581
hahaha the movie does such a shitty job. >>213322010
everything about this is correct except paul did probably have the ability to avoid the jihad, its not explicitly spelled out, but its pretty apparent based on the subtext that its because he's determined to get revenge on the baron harkonnen, that he winds up bringing about the jihad, he struggles to find a way to BOTH get revenge AND avoid the jihad and then at a certain point he stops caring, this after his first child is killed.

and this is before he even KNOWS about the golden path, if im not mistaken, let alone understands what it entails, so the choice isn't something he makes for the good of man kind, and its not neccessarily the case that man kind needed to do it to survive, paul JUST wanted revenge against the baron harkonnen, so he puts humanity into the jihad, then he has trouble living with him self and thats why the events in dune messiah and children of dune take place.

>>213332701
simplified it for normies
see how they had paul killing the baron instead of alia

>>213332510
>>213332614
Also the raid is a suicide attack, that is meant to highlight that Leto is morally grey and audacious

ah so Paul Atreides fails to follow the golden path because he's a human bitch, Leto 2 answers the call, becomes a bogged worm freak and goes through with what Paul couldn't, ultimately in a roundabout way saving humanity, is that the gist of it?

>Lynch
>cast of Lynch's friends
>Jurgen Prochnow
>Patrick Stewart
>sick soundtrack by Toto

>Villeneuve
>Timothee and a bunch of other reddit stars including Dusty the Half-Negro
>uninspired low-poly desaturated scifi aesthetic
all it has going for it are Jessica Ferguson and David Dastmalchian

>>213332846
Rebecca* not Jessica jfc I'm so sorry

>>213332829
nvm, chatgpt gave a nice summary

>>213326392
Looks like a clit

>>213326512
Stfu jesus

>>213332961

A key part of the Golden Path is Leto knowing that even when his body is destroyed, he'll never actually die, instead his spirt/soul will linger forever in a dream state. Paul couldn't face that and Leto almost turned away from it when he fell in love with Hwi Noree.

Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune, the last two books in the saga written by Herbert's son and some other guy based on main Herbert's notes, are they considered canon by fans or fan fiction?

>>213329310
>Also a twink
You guys know Paul is supposed to be a teen right?

>>213333139
Paul was a pussy, forever dream state doesn't sound so bad

>>213322926
>Paul was the chosen one.
No. He's forced to make choices due to circumstances that are beyond his control similar to his father having to accept the fiefdom of Arrakis. Him winning the war is only possible because of things his father did, him being what he is due to the eugenics program, the Fremen being as formidble as they are is due to Harkonnen brutality and so on. He's no more the chosen one than the Chernobyl reactor was the destined chosen one for ending the USSR by going into meltdown.

>>213332701
Momoa demanded she be 14 instead of 16 for Messiah.

>>213332472
>billions must die
og meme remains perfect and you can't even get that right kys

>>213333159
>based on main Herbert's notes

There is no secret footlocker of Frank Herbert notes that his shitbag son just happened to find in a backroom closet, he's straight up lying.

>>213333176
>Him winning the war is only possible because of things his father did
What?
>the Fremen being as formidble as they are is due to Harkonnen brutality and so on
No, it's because of the planet itself

>>213332790
Damn, forgot about that. Been a long time since I read it.
That would be cool to include in a movie. It adds a lotbof depth to Leto.

>>213334502
Are you a retarded mac retardo? In the movo Leto is meant to be a gooder gooderino. There's not enough time to flesh him out as le morally gray charactor. And that would have been lame anyway. He needs to be heroic so we can root for Paul getting revenge.

>>213333159
>>213333380
Brian Herbert is a hack fraud who made numerous contradictory statements over the years about said 'notes'
He's also lied about all sorts of other shit, like the timeline of Herbert's trip to Florence, Oregon to write about the dunes (I presume because he couldn't be bothered to reference the actual relevant materials, or even Frank's recorded comments about it)
One is reminded of that remark by Mary McCarthy, which I now repurpose:
>Every word he writes is a lie, including ‘and’ and ‘the.'

>>213321384 (OP)
>they
it's herbert's fault, what a fucking retard he was
>tyranny is le bad
>anyway that's how the biggest tyrant in the universe saved humanity and also it was canonically the best option because all the alternatives are worse

>>213335678
Filtered like spice through the mouth of a sandworm.

>>213321384 (OP)
Why do "people" on Twitter talk about fictional characters as if they're real people. Can they not differentiate between fiction and reality

>>213335989
Not really and that's why there is so much wrong with the internet now

>>213334386
>What?
Leto has set up the contact with the Fremen before he even arrives on Arrakis. Without that Paul and Jessica wouldn't have been on good terms with Stilgar and would've most likely died shortly after the Baron springs his trap.
Throughout the story Paul has to react to someone else's plans against him and he wins by using parts of a plan made by someone else which gives him the one way to victory that he needs to survive.
The Baron's plan on trapping the Atreidies requires large amounts of spice which he gets by being extremely brutal which results in a resistence war that has been going on for decades when Leto takes over. When the Baron retakes power and Paul joins the northern Fremen they're already equipped, organized and willing to fight a war against the Harkonnens since they've already been doing that for several decades and were going to do it whether or not Paul had shown up. That's different from the harsh environment of planet making the Fremen to be tough on an individual level. Later he has to go south and convince the Fremen there to join him and that's only possible because the the guild scheming to cover up the settlements there and his plan largely hinges on Bene Gesserit planning involving planted prophecies.

>>213336018
Guess that explains why everyone on Twitter sounds so insane, they're actually disconnected from reality

>"people in history"

>>213330783
only the first book is good

>>213330783
worth a read. the author is a frustrated poet or something though

>>213321384 (OP)
>liking a nazi-coded character

>>213321384 (OP)
>was
>fictional character
>from the future
>was

stop posting some dumb literal who's here

I feel like you can't really understand dune if you haven't also seen the man who would be king

>>213330783
it's nothing like dune. it's a bunch of unrelated short stories the people on a pilgrimage tell each other. I'm told it's "basically canterbury tales in space", but I haven't read canterbury tales so I dunno how accrate that is. it's pretty good I guess, but I don't like that format.

>>213323384
Star Trek pulled that crap all the time.

>>213331457
>But fundementally I don't think Dune is a "warning" and I don't think Paul is the bad guy. That's reddit. I was being flippant.
Herbert never wanted Paul to be a villain entirely he meant more that though Paul did good things he was also a monster, as is most of humanity when you get down to it.
Ascribing ideas of inherent goodness to something as flawed as humanity is to free them of their choices.
Blind or stupid neither frees of consequences.

>>213331101
>>213329022
Conradin was doing cool shit at the age of 15/16
Being a youth of 15 and being groomed into a peak superhuman is the ideal person

Daily reminder that at no point does DUNC explain that spice is vital for space travel.

>>213321384 (OP)
>terrible person
To be fair, in the beginning he didn't know how his powers worked and later he claimed doing things differently would have lead to disaster.
Then his "slightly" autistic son comes around and fixes everything.

>>213339526
Yes it does, it's in the first 5 minutes. The narrator says something like "without spice, interstellar travel is impossible, making it by far the most valuable commodity in the universe"

There are plenty of incredibly important things DUNC leaves out that drive me crazy. You somehow managed to pick the one thing that they actually did put in the movie.
Next time say something about how at no point does DUNC ever explain that Paul is a mentat. That is by far the most egregious and insulting omission. I don't know how you make an adaption of Messiah without the knowledge that Paul is a mentat. It's so pointlessly retarded. It's very fucking important to the story that Paul is a mentat. In Messiah, Paul is literally commonly known as "The Mentat Emperor"

>>213338000
>Newton, Einstein, and Musk
Keke

>>213321396
>>213321452
You can smell the commies from here

>>213329255
That part was cool

>>213325369
Because of copyright.

>>213321384 (OP)
That's the point. From the Water of Life on, he's ascended to a mortal godhood that's necessary for the preservation and flourishing of the human race. But he's so much of a coward he cant do it himself, allows Irulan to think she got the upperhand in drugging his mate to cause Chani to OD on spice for their rabbit fucking sessions until they create actual abominations. And then he tags his son and says fuck you.

>>213321384 (OP)

I think the book is supposento shown him as a some tragic figure who did unleash a horrible jihad that killed billions.

>>213334502
It's on brand, the Atreides are ahead in training elite troops to match the emperor's. Corrino is threatened because other great houses are stagnating and Leto is actively gaining support from lesser houses and still on the table for marriage to another great house.

Then on Dune, he's constantly making moves to court the Fremen by showing he so much different from the old regime.

He's the 1.0 to Paul and II's 2.0 3.0 charismatic powers.

>>213329255
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkvTfPmRIc4&ab_channel=ScienceFictionStation

a 2004 movie mogs it

>>213343067
lol

>>213321384 (OP)
Everything was the Bene Gesserit's fault, not Paul's. They breed superhuman psychic prophets into existence and doomed humanity to fall to them. Paul and Leto saved humanity from that fate and almost anything they had to do or allowed to happen was pretty much completely justified. Really the only thing Leto did wrong was NOT wiping the Bene Gesserit out because they fucked up so catastrophically.

>>213343067
The mid-2000s sci fi fantasy aesthetic would have been perfect for dune

>>213321384 (OP)
>this jewish rat is le cool
???

>>213321951
Showing your media literacy there, Chud. Paul manipulated BROWN PEOPLE and that makes him worse than HITLER but not as bad as Trump or Putin.

>>213340534
Mentat is a stupid concept, no one cares nerd

Mini series > books > dune 1984 > dunc

>>213343947
Swap Dunc with the first movie and you are correct. The old movie was just silly.

>>213343067

>>213343995
Silly but also soulful and artistically creative. DUNC's style is like if you took concept art from modern scifi games, removed all the greebles because they were too much effort, and overmilimalisted everything because details take too much creative thought.

>>213321384 (OP)
Ngl Timmy is cool and I wish I looked like him.

>>213321384 (OP)
it's just a made up character from a cheaply written book series adapted into a mildly enjoyable flick. if you take it as anything more than that and base your world views on it, you're a midwit retard.

>>213344214
yes yes very nice
but what's their tax policy?

>>213321384 (OP)
Because otherwise you wouldn't understand why anyone would follow him.

>>213345901
The state kept a monopoly on salt and had modest regional taxes that local governments were in charge of collecting however they saw fit.