Post incredible Star Trek quotes

>a charming negress

>>213347857 (OP)
Gr8 b8 m8

Picard met God though.

>>213347857 (OP)
>Mister Worf, villains who twirl their moustaches are easy to spot. Those who clothe themselves in good deeds are well camouflaged.
>I think, after yesterday, people will not be so ready to trust her.
>Maybe. But she, or someone like her, will always be with us, waiting for the right climate in which to flourish, spreading fear in the name of righteousness. Vigilance, Mister Worf, that is the price we have to continually pay.

>>213348326
This is communism.

>>213348461
Does the Federation have any escape for those who don't want to live in their Communist "utopia", complete with no purpose in life, and high-density Federation housing?

>>213348326
sounds comfy

>>213349543
yeah, colonies

Adulthood is realizing TOS Is based and rugged American individualism and TNG is cringe commie propaganda

>>213347857 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkFNAfs-m_s

>>213349543
joining Starfleet and getting posted to a shithole, or going to a colony beyond the reach of the Federation government

>>213348326
Except then Picard came along & apparently that quote is false as fuck

>>213349748
yeah but tng still has some great episodes

>>213349712
Isn't the aspiration of those colonies to be outposts of the Federation? If so, it's not really an escape, is it?

>>213348326
...he says while lounging in his vineyard, which for some reason he refuses to allow to be turned into high-density Federation housing.

>high-density Federation housing
do they show this in the show? pics?

>>213350232
no, it's a homesteading pioneer LARP on the Federation's dime

>>213350259
When humanity is able to live on other better planets, space stations and ships, or worse ones for that matter, a vineyard being bulldozed is a drop in the ocean. Gentrification is for faggots too

>>213350232
It depends, there are areas of space where humans live that aren't under Federation jurisdiction either due to war or other reasons. Depending on each area the humans are either at war with those who try to control them or cooperate with their new overlords.

>>213349748
>TOS Is based and rugged American individualism

That makes sense. When TOS was on there were lots of TV westerns on other channels and TOS is essentially a sci-fi western, when TNG was on in the 80s the westerns were gone and prime time soap operas like Dallas and Dynasty were ruling the ratings so TNG is a space soap opera.

lmao, did trump really break writers' brains this badly?

>>213350466
That wasn't the original idea, Roddenberry didn't want any inter-crew conflict in TNG and all problems were supposed to come from outside sources. But the way the writers changed TNG after Roddenberry's ideas got phazed out makes TOS a far more entertaining and rewatchable show

>>213350332
>dime
But the Federation doesn't use money.
>>213350364
I thought it was about sending a message to those that have more than others.

>>213347857 (OP)
>You will say that there are one hundred different sexes.
>THERE ARE TWO SEXES!

>>213349543
Join The Maquis.

>>213350922
Humanity's evolved beyond need, hunger, disease and inequality. Now they have nobler pursuits where you can work whatever job you please, live a fulfilling life and travel the galaxy

>>213351148
But why would anyone be motivated to do that? Sheer boredom and ennui? We rarely (if ever) see anyone in this "utopian" future that isn't in Starfleet. I imagine block after block of high-density Federation housing, skyscrapers done in brutalist motif, housing pod after pod of NEETs who spend all their time online, seething about "TJ Laser" or whatever entertainment programs they have, arguing who's a "real" fan and who isn't.

>>213351068
gender is not sex

>>213348293
Why is nearly every high ranking federation leaders some corrupt asshole or just outright evil?

I'm sick of these daily Star Trek samefagging threads.
Why don't you faggots stay in your general?

>>213350364
>Gentrification is for faggots
brown detected

>>213351261
>But why would anyone be motivated to do that?
Because having the freedom to do what you love is a lot more fulfilling than working a job for material purposes
>We rarely (if ever) see anyone in this "utopian" future that isn't in Starfleet.
That's because Star Trek is about people in Starfleet, not random civvies. It's mostly in DS9 where you see guys like Sisko's dad who runs a restaurant because he loves to make delicious food. Working in Starfleet gives people an opportunity to explore the galaxy and study academic fields pertaining to it.
>I imagine block after block of high-density Federation housing, skyscrapers done in brutalist motif, housing pod after pod of NEETs
That's because you're a dead-eyed, narrow-headed cynic with no optimism.

>>213351341
>B-b-b-brown detected
Retard

>>213349543
You can just leave. If you really can't find something to do with yourself within the entire Federation, you can just find some ship going outside the Federation or a ship that isn't part of Starfleet or official Federation business like Cassidy's freighter.

>Our blood is pure. Our people lived and hunted on this land for a thousand years before the degenerate races brought their corruption. Europe must be purified.

>>213351094
Weren't the Maquis just Bajoran partisans fighting a guerrilla war against the Cardassians? Not exactly my idea of freedom.

>>213351325
Because the general is filled with seething oldtrek grandpas that have an arbitrary opinion about what's "real Trek" and what's "nuTrek" and won't shut up about it. It gets tiresome.

>>213351341
Gentrification is how geek culture becomes a thing.

>>213351877
The Bajoran resistance didn't have an official name, but yes there are Bajorans in the Maquis. The Maquis are a majority-human group of terrorists and rebels who openly fight the Cardassians and occasionally the Federation

Crazy how people think TNG is the quintessential Star Trek.

>>213351459
Sisko's dad is a completely unrealistic portrayal. Where are the methheads, squatting in high-density Federation housing, replicating meth, and smoking it until they die? Why doesn't the Federation ever admit to this?
>>213351690
>can "just leave"
>still need to convince someone to transport you away from there
>they have no reason to do so other than the goodness in their heart
Sounds like prison by a different name to me.

>>213351975
Oh, did the Maquis terrorize the Federation too? OK, that sounds a lot better than being cooped up in high-density Federation housing, trying to stave off the boredom and ennui with meth and Tek. Just that smug Picard asshole they keep seeing on TV is enough to send future NEETs over the edge.

>>213347857 (OP)
It makes sense in universe where God is just advanced aliens, doesnt work irl where space is made in hollywood stages

>>213351988
>Where are the methheads, squatting in high-density Federation housing, replicating meth, and smoking it until they die?
No such thing as meth, stalker. Warp-capable species smoking meth is cringe shit when mind-altering chemicals are non-addictive and recreational

>>213351283
DNA can't be changed. Not unless you want to become a deranged mutant incapable of procreating, anyways.

>>213352039
>OK, that sounds a lot better than being cooped up in high-density Federation housing, trying to stave off the boredom and ennui with meth and Tek.
You don't have to worry about food or housing, you can live comfortably on multiple different planets and you can travel anywhere in the Federation or outside of it and study/do whatever you want. 21st century mentality has rotted your brain

>>213352104
Then whatever the future version of meth is. Same problem. Non-addictive, my ass. Even the holodeck is addictive.
>>213352182
Yeah, I don't have to worry about housing as long as I accept their Hobson's choice of high-density Federation housing, risking my life every day in Starfleet, or living in some far-flung colony where I have to deal with local tyrants without any recourse. It sounds like Hell by a different name. Maquis it is. I can make complacent Federation sheeple cower in fear, and I won't live long enough to have to suffer much. Utopian future, my ass.

>>213348461
there is literally, objectively, nothing wrong with communism in a post scarcity society.

>>213352039
>high-density

The earth population isn’t supposed to be that much larger compared to today, and they can terraform

>>213352335
>Same problem.
What part of "modern-day problems don't exist anymore" don't you understand?
>Even the holodeck is addictive.
That's one episode and it's such a strange situation that the entire episode revolves around it. It's less dopamine and more escapism in Barkley's case and he resolves his problem by the end of the episode

>>213351283
It is. If humans never developed advanced propaganda and PR in the 20th century you wouldn't be saying shit like this.

>>213352335
>Yeah, I don't have to worry about housing
FIFY
>Maquis it is.
Enjoy shitting in tins, not enjoying the Federation's protection, becoming desensitized and dying almost immediately to a Cardassian patrol, idiot.

>>213348461
You're conceding to commies a propaganda weapon by conflating basic shit like communal sharing with their anti-human political ideology.

>>213352336
There is if I don't have a choice in the matter.
>>213352366
Again with the far-flung colonies run by local tyrants surrounded by dangerous wilderness. NOT a utopia.
>>213352411
I'm talking about future problems, like lack of choice to participate in the Federation, soul-draining boredom and ennui, and terrorism looking vastly preferable to anyone who still feels.
>just one episode
So you forgot Geordi getting all creepy about the warp engine designer's hologram? Or the visitor-of-the-week wanting Kira's hologram in Quark's fantasy holosuite? This sort of thing happens all the time, and is a sign of a sick society.

>>213351988
If you took having all of the Federation's resources and the freedom to use them to better yourself to your maximum potential and you failed to be someone worth taking on, then that's on you.

If you were actually worth half of a fuck you'd be able to get out of the Federation on your own if you actually wanted that because you'd genuinely have drive and ambition and would've made use of your Federation privilege to have the resources you need to get your own ship and be your own boss or get the Federation to give you what you need to start up a new colony or whatever.

>>213352504
Earth is not a far-flung colony

>>213352451
I don't have to worry about housing if I can accept high-density Federation housing, crammed together with a bunch of other ne'er-do-wells, with nothing to do but smoke future meth and watching the same holovids over and over. A quick death as a Maquis, terrifying some Federation sheeple, sounds far better than death by stifling boredom. Some utopia.

>>213352550
Then how does Earth somehow have such a low population in the future? I'm sure it has nothing to do with the way phasers set to "kill" leave no trace of a person behind. The Federation lets psychopaths act out their evil by tasking them to eliminate dissidents and malcontents, keeping the population low. So psychopaths are certainly happy and fulfilled in the future. You have a more workable theory, I suppose?

>>213352604
No idea, but it’s not Coruscant overpopulated. It’s supposed to be relatively low. Most humans are not on earth

>>213349748
TOS was just Kennedy era liberalism but it was still liberalism

>>213352504
>lack of choice to participate in the Federation
Fuck you talking about? If you're born on Earth or anywhere within Federation territory, or outside of it for that matter, you're a Federation citizen by default.
>and terrorism looking vastly preferable to lazy losers who can't comprehend having free choice
>So you forgot Geordi getting all creepy about the warp engine designer's hologram?
That was funny, but he never does it again
>Or the visitor-of-the-week wanting Kira's hologram in Quark's fantasy holosuite?
When your source of comfort is a holosuite in a shitty space mall on the border of Federation territory you gotta make do. Doing a fantasy program once a week is not addiction either, but it's very sad

>>213352559
>muh cramped housing
Are you autistic? There's nothing like that on Earth
>A quick death as a Maquis, terrifying some Federation sheeple
You're picking the Star Trek equivalent of joining a faction in a Middle-East civil war over a normal life, got it

>>213348326
Who unclogs my shitter without some form of compensation?

>>213352676
>lack of choice to participate in the Federation
>nooo, if you're born on Earth or anywhere within Federation territory, you're a Federation citizen by default
Isn't that just what I said? Lack of choice. I'd be part of their soul-draining tyranny whether I want to or not, and there's no escape.
>Geordi never does it again
Yeah, right.

>>213352750
>Lack of choice.
There's infinite choice, retard. The fact you can renounce your citizenship and die for nothing in a border skirmish out of spite proves that

>>213352726
They never show the high-density Federation housing in the shows, but with as many people as there are, and Starfleet's stringent entry requirements, it stands to reason there's a lot of people with nothing to do, no purpose in their lives, and replicators providing endless enabling of their degenerate lifestyles.

>>213352799
>They never show the high-density Federation housing because it doesn't exist
FIFY
>Starfleet's stringent entry requirements
Are you retarded?

>>213352789
So that's my choice—a slow death filled with boredom and ennui, or a quick death in the Maquis? This is your utopia? And is calling people "retard" part of your utopian vision?

>>213348326
Sounds good but somebody has to clean the toilets and somebody can just sit in a luxury office and jerk off.

>>213352833
>high-density Federation housing doesn't exist
Sure, just keep telling yourself that.
>Starfleet's stringent entry requirements
Numerous characters have remarked on how difficult it was to get into Starfleet. TNG season 1 had a whole episode showing candidates (including Wesley Crusher) competing for one of a limited handful of slots. So yes, stringent entry requirements. Do you have evidence otherwise?

The sheer FUCKING hubris...

>>213352841
>So that's my choice, literally any job or occupation I want, any number of planets to live on and explore, freedom to change career paths at any point in your life and doing what makes me happy or dying for nothing out of spite?
Are you so talentless, sad and boring that if you had all the time in the world you'd kill yourself immediately?
>And is calling people "retard" part of your utopian vision?
Yeah, when it's warranted.

>>213352864
How about cleaning your own toilet, if it’s even necessary. The starships clean thenselves

>>213352889
>Sure, keep calling me out for making shit up
>Numerous characters have remarked on how difficult it was to get into Starfleet.
For certain positions, sure, but the fact that Deanna Troi was able to become the fourth-in-command shows how that's not always the case.
Joining Starfleet's not the be-all, end-all anyway

>>213352504
>There is if I don't have a choice in the matter.
you are forced to abide by societal rules now, what makes it any different?

>>213352604
Humanity in Star Trek are basically aliens to today's humans. Like the end of WW1 basically ended monarchies in europe and was a huge paradigm shift in cultural behaviour, so did WW3 in Star Trek.
By TNG, humans didn't really want to hoard wealth like maniacs, be cruel to each othet or just be fucking assholes that game the system. WW3 was so traumatic and destructive, that everyone left was just sick of it. The few outliers just leave Federation space, become crackheada in some Ferengi freighter or be niggers with the Maquis and pretend to be a gangster.
Star Fleet people are basically maniacs that would be theorycrafting how to solve a video game or work a lockheed and have sexual fantasies about planes.

You can't apply our own society with it's low iq retards to the federation. For better or worse, they all got killed by WW3 or didn't reproduce because the cooler kids found a way to sterilize them with kindness and abundance.

>>213349748
True. Only TOS and ENT are fully realised great tv shows.

>>213353241
The Eugenics War presumably ironed out a lot of imperfections

>>213352504
>soul-draining boredom and ennui
Doesn't exist. Human beings have evolved.

>>213353241
>WW3 was so traumatic and destructive, that everyone left was just sick of it.
This isn't true. WW3 was almost a nothingburger compared to what it could have been, and there were still people like Colonel Green afterward.
It was a long period of social development before post WW3 humanity turned into TNG humanity.

>>213353253
ENT is nothing like TOS

TOS is thoughtful, cerebral Star Trek and ENT is shitty WB-tier action schlock with a shitty straight-outta-the-CW cast and writing so laughably bad that attaching the Trek name to it was an insult in itself.
TOS is GOAT'd, ENT is aggressively mediocre.

>>213353417
Sound like you just don't got no faith of the heart, son

>>213353533
No, it's just an inferior show which is why it's never discussed on the board or in /trek/. If ENT is posted, it's meme faith of the heart posting or coomposting, never any credible discussion because the show has such lackluster, uninteresting stories which are all serialized so you can't even enjoy the show as one-off episodics.

Sucks

>>213347857 (OP)
>This IS Sex

>>213349761
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3sJB2tcoJY
the better picard song

>>213352947
>just clean your own toilet
Some utopia.
>>213352985
The example I gave involved people just trying to become Starfleet cadets. Did you miss that subtle point? And Deanna Troi was the daughter of royalty, i.e. "Lwaxana Troi, Daughter of the Fifth House, Holder of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx, Heir to the Holy Rings of Betazed". Nepotism leading to promotion in Starfleet? Some utopia.
>>213353192
My point exactly! Glad you're finally catching on. The future as depicted in Star Trek is NO DIFFERENT, not in any meaningful way.
>>213353241
>undesirables, misfits, and malcontents didn't reproduce because the "cooler kids" found a way to sterilize them
Again, my point. Star Trek pretends to depict a utopia, but it's a tyrannical dystopia where anyone not happy with the status quo gets sidelined and selected for extinction, if not outright disintegrated with a phaser.
>>213353307
>soul-draining boredom and ennui don't exist because of muh evolution
Evidence?

>>213353837
>Evidence?
The TV show.

>*meets a godlike entity in space every week*
>"You dumbass aliens still believe in religion? Heh, how primitive..."

>>213348461
The problem with communism is that it can't be implemented. In the Star Trek universe, it's taken for granted that they've already figured it out.
If you CAN implement communism, it is just BETTER. It's literally a utopian form of governance. The only problem with it is that it's purely hypothetical and nobody has figured out how to do it.
However, in a universe where it is possible and they have figured it out, you'd have to be a genuine fucking self-destructive moron to not participate in it.
Imagine arriving on a new planet, and they immediately provide you with food and housing for free while describing how they've overcome the need for scarcity and money.
And your first thought is: "Oh no, how are corporations going to generate value from this circumstance! =("
You're a bootlicker cuck, shut the fuck up.

>>213347857 (OP)
Picard should've obliterated the village from orbit if he was a true atheist.

>>213353927
>*meets a godlike entity in space every week*
You forgot the rest
>*said godlike entity is not well-intentioned and is usually nefariously inclined*
>*is outwitted and loses to humans on spaceship*
That kind of makes it obvious why they would be skeptical, anon.

>>213353932
could you not?

>>213353837
They don’t seem to get bored easily. When the time-capsule human from present day asks about alcohol and TV they just laugh at it

>[light jazz music playing]

Star Trek isn't communism, or capitalism, or anything like that.

It's a post-scarcity economy.
Communism, capitalism, etc, are all theories of how to deal with scarcity and market demands which no longer exist in the face of matter replication technology being so widespread.

Star Trek is not justification for communism, nor is it condemnation of capitalism in itself. It's fantasy in a time where neither are relevant or even possible anymore.

>>213353989
>TV they just laugh at it
This is why Tom Paris had to escape society. They were oppressing his desire for quality /tv/

>>213353969
Look dude, capitalism is just a tool. It's what we use because nobody can think of a better way to organize the exchange of value in society.
It has problems, and it's not a fucking GUY. It's not a person. You don't *owe* capitalism your loyalty. It's not a religion, or a culture. It's not your fucking family.
Capitalism is just as moral as using a hammer; nothing more than a tool for a fucking job.
Running interference for it like an insult against capitalism is an insult against yourself is fundamentally retarded, and makes you sound like an idiot.

how
the
dickens
did they
get away team
with it?

>>213347857 (OP)
I thought "the great material continuum" scene was genius:
https://youtu.be/BxHhCh9zA3I?si=hM4FTdbIP62K3IR3

>>213351283
sophistry

>>213353241
>You can't apply our own society with it's low iq retards to the federation. For better or worse, they all got killed by WW3 or didn't reproduce because the cooler kids found a way to sterilize them with kindness and abundance.
Wait what? Must have missed the episode where they explained that and all references to it.

>>213351927
and they say that gatekeeping doesn't work

>>213354030
I always thought of star trek as basically capitalist, but with generous basic income and a lot of state-run organization that exist in parallel to private corporations. State capitalism basically. Because the general economy has no need for lowly labour and instead is based around high skill jobs, a lot of those people are intrinsically motivated and do good jobs without monetary incentives. Prestige and status still exists of course.

>>213354051
>capitalism is a bla bla bla
capitalism is a meme
market economy is how things work in the absence of either an authoritarian state or an entrenched servile caste, and even then there's usually some market economy anyway
the market economy still exists in Star Trek, see Treachery, Faith and the Great River.

>>213354092
kino for sure

RIP Nog

Make us go.

>>213353741
kek classic

>>213354173
>>213354181
>the market economy still exists in Star Trek, see Treachery, Faith and the Great River.
The bizarre thing about the Federation is how the basic concept of trade and barter makes a salt-of-the-earth, enlisted man, union man, man of the trades, engineer man, man of man, asian wife's man like O'Brien have a seizure trying to understand it.
>but we don't need a pickney flange, we need a mass accelerator!
or whatever it is that he wanted
Almost like having money and a private sector instead of just relying on quartermasters and requisition lists could save a fuck ton of problems.

>competing threads again
qrd?

>>213349748
"rugged American individualism" has done more to rot away society than any wokeshit or ethnic demographics

>>213353866
So because the TV show never covers how the bottom 99.99% live, therefore they don't exist? How convenient. I say they're still there, and that their lives are far from utopian. We're basically seeing the lives of the rich and connected. (If Picard owning his own vineyard isn't a sign of being rich, then what is?)
>>213353927
Exactly! The Q? (One of which met Picard in a liminal space after he died!) The Bajoran
Prophets? Apollo? Gary Seven? Trelane? The Douwd? Nagilum? The One (outside the galactic barrier)? Ø (the one at the center of the galaxy)? The galaxy is awash with divine beings that are clearly far more than mere "aliens".
>>213353989
Again, that's the 0.01% that can get into Starfleet. What about the rest?

>>213354320
>O'Brien have a seizure trying to understand it
O'Brien understands perfectly well that Nog is setting up a chain of barters to get what they want, he just doesn't trust it.

>>213354030
Just in case you've been missing the point, I'm talking about things that can't be replicated, like meaning and purpose. Star Trek has no answer to that, except for joining an organization where you face death constantly. In which case, you may as well join the Maquis, because even though you're still risking your life daily, at least you're not supporting the suffocating tyranny.
>>213354124
Well, >>213351325 was complaining about Star Trek "faggots" not staying in their general, so whether the gatekeeping is "working" is a matter of opinion.

>>213354376
>I say they're still there, and that their lives are far from utopian.
Their lives are almost certainly more luxurious and less work-intensive than that of a modern american man. What do you expect? Everyone to get their own starship and have adventures like an 18th century explorer? Everyone getting their own vinyard on prime earth land? How would that work?

>>213348293
This is cringe it implies people don't already know how bad most leaders are and it just isn't a matter of not being able to do much about it

>>213354181
Nog didn't die; he went to go live on a farm upstate, where he can run and play all day with other nogs.

>>213354376
>I say they're still there,
Ok but you don't have any evidence so... take your meds, schizo.

>>213354376
They don’t show much except explain that it’s peaceful and people can do what they want with their lives within reason

>>213348326
Retrospectivly Picard was such a bong smoking Redditor

>>213354432
My point exactly! Though for some reason you keep missing it. What is that "luxurious and less work-intensive" lifestyle worth to the bottom 99.99% if there's no purpose or meaning to their lives?

>>213354385
>O'Brien understands perfectly well that Nog is setting up a chain of barters
He didn't though, he was constantly second-guessing why they needed to trade anything for anything if they were only possibly maybe going to get what they wanted in the end
Nog rented out Sisko's office desk for crying out loud

>>213354481
The ascended man creates purpose and meaning in his life rather than have it thrust upon him. You are simply too primitive to understand this.

>>213354453
>take your meds, schizo
Is that how you react to someone exercising their insight and intuition? To someone pointing out that the system has rotted from the inside? So your instinct is to simply dismiss their concerns and forcibly medicate them? You, as in YOU, personally, are the problem, not me.

>>213354333
Explain why being atomized and deracinated is bad for a nation state NOW! Just kidding. Lmao

>>213350232
They could go independent if they really wanted to and the planet holds no strategic value or interrupt the federation but then you would be on what I assume the ass end reaches and then at the mercy of other aliens that will have no issues abusing you if not just straight up destroying you

>>213354501
You write this from the perspective of someone who knows how the story ends. O'Brien is in the story and he doesn't know how it ends. They're in a war, maybe the ship carrying the desk as cargo gets diverted for a week, or even destroyed forever. Maybe the rumors Nog is hearing are just that, only rumors. You can understand how the chain could work without believing that it would work

>>213354481
>if there's no purpose or meaning to their lives?
Who says that? Do you think there's no meaning to the lives of trophy wives, or retirees, or trust fund babies? Most of them massively enjoy it, filling it with hobbies of all sorts.

>>213352336
>post scarcity society.
Will never be a thing, we are already in a "post scarcity world" in the west for grain and drinking water the bar is just raised and what is scarce changes

>>213354528
Isn't "ascended" a spiritual concept? It's my understanding that the Federation doesn't believe in any sort of religion.

>>213354541
The Federation is a paradise wherein everyone who is part of that paradise fits in to that paradise. By definition you would be the diseased and incurable antigen in that paradise, so no, you are the problem in this context.
>why isn't it a paradise for ME, useless anonfag on 4chan crying about boredom and ennui with thinly veiled sophist arguments and ridiculous double standards for what constitutes in-universe facts of the Star Trek setting?!
I'm sorry anon, but it's survival of the fittest to a given environment and you will simply not survive.

>>213354581
Anon watch the episode again.
That's not how O'Brien reacts to the idea initially. He's confused, not distrustful. If he was actually distrustful he wouldn't have gone ahead with it.

>>213354568
If the colonists are at the mercy of other aliens, especially ones that have no issues abusing them if not just straight up destroying them, then is that really an improvement over living in the Federation? My point remains... there's no escape. The Federation is essentially a prison.

>>213354609
The federation isnt a utopia though

>>213354643
It's a fait accompli once the desk is already physically gone.

>>213354605
>isn't ascended a spiritual concept
No, lol. Not unless you're a Nietszchetard.

>>213354666
Says you.
>Anonymous poster on 4chan baffled and confused how people can have different ideas about which fully realised futuristic macroethical system constitutes a utopia for the hitherto undefined human condition

>>213354675
Aren't they more like delusional humanists?

>>213347857 (OP)
Tea, Earl Grey, Hot

>>213354706
I'm a humanist, don't fuck with me or I'll fuck you up.

>>213354481
Why are you confused? It’s probably just like our lives but better tech, everything is free and work is voluntary. It’s not that complicated

>>213354737
The idea of human rights have been detrimental to western society

>>213354583
Are you speaking from personal experience? I've known people who are well-off through no effort of their own. Either they're trust-fund babies, or their spouse passed away and left them large amount of money, etc. All of the ones I know appear to be quite disturbed human beings. From observing them, my conclusion is that there's something about knowing you're useless, that you have no purpose, that eats away at the human soul. Do you have counterexamples? I stand by my point, that 99.99% of the people in the Federation know they're useless and that fact leads to boredom, ennui, and existential crises.

>>213354376
You can enlist in Starfleet, of course not everyone is good enough to get into the academy and become an officer

>>213354805
Human rights, human lefts. As long as it's human fists doing the knocking.

>>213354853
>that 99.99% of the people in the Federation know they're useless and that fact leads to boredom, ennui, and existential crises.
Or 99.99% of the people of the Federation aren't conditioned cattle that need to be used in order to feel a meaningful existance anymore.
You really struggle with the concept, don't you?

>>213354609
So someone like me would be "diseased", just because I wasn't able to conform to someone else's idea of utopia? I would be "incurable"? That this would somehow being a sign that I wasn't "fit to survive"? That way lies tyranny and genocide, which is exactly my point. The Federation, as depicted in the TV shows and movies, can't possibly exist without being a miserable experience for the vast majority, assuming those malcontents aren't simply eliminated. Are you trying to make my point for me, or are you doing this accidentally?
>>213354737
So you admit to be a solipsistic tyrant. It's odd how much you are all making my point for me, while not having the faintest idea you're doing so. Truly an apotheosis of lack of self-awareness.

>>213354951
Needing purpose and meaning doesn't mean I'm conditioned cattle; quite the opposite, actually. The desire for purpose and meaning comes from our most human elements; not having it is a sign of being conditioned cattle. Sounds like "Star Trek" is far closer to "Brave New World" than it ever let on.

>>213354961
>So someone like me would be "diseased", just because I wasn't able to conform to someone else's idea of utopia? I would be "incurable"? That this would somehow being a sign that I wasn't "fit to survive"? That way lies tyranny and genocide, which is exactly my point.
You're unable to conceive of the possibility that human beings can be different from you and live under a different paradigm to your desires. It's no less fair to eradicate you and people like you from the species than it would be to eradicate this new future humanity which you fear and loathe, which you would need to do in order to ensure your own survival in any case.
>muh tyrants! muh genocide!
Lol. This isn't 2010, nobody here is going to buy that limp-dick bullshit anymore. We all know that it's kill or be killed and whining about it won't change anything.

>>213352676
>When your source of comfort is a holosuite in a shitty space mall on the border of Federation territory you gotta make do. Doing a fantasy program once a week is not addiction either, but it's very sad
Well the visitor of the week in question was actually filthy fucking rich and had his own holosuite at home. I would characterize it as a hedonistic hobby rather than addiction

>>213353837
>The example I gave involved people just trying to become Starfleet cadets.
It makes sense that the criteria would be high given the vast pool of candidates.

>>213355011
You used the word useless. I quoted you. Do you want to rescind the term, or do you concede that you equate having "purpose and meaning" with being used?

>>213354435
it's a quote from a time before the internet was available to spread information to the general masses. look at how many retards there are right now in the US alone who sincerely believe that their elected leader is some kind of holy pillar of goodwill.

>>213355011
>Needing purpose and meaning doesn't mean I'm conditioned cattle
It makes you an uncreative idiot who can't think of anything for yourself and need to be told what to do like a child.

>If you don't have to do jobs to stay alive you have no meaning in life
What did he mean by that?
When in doubt, imagine that all the people unable to enjoy life without hardship died childlessly. The federation is populated by the leftovers who either become important scientists, engineers and organizers or find meaning in meaningless hobbies. And they don't spend all their time in escapism before a screen or in a holodeck either.

AAH!?- I'm GOING TO DIE!? In the FEDERATION I'LL DIE!?! NOOOOO! This isn't a UTOPIA THIS IS A DYSTOPIA REEE!!!

>>213355044
The people depicted in Star Trek don't seem to be very different from people these days; they're merely in a different environment. And I never said I wanted to eradicate them. Yet, how can I interpret what you're saying as anything but expressing tyrannical/genocidal impulses toward malcontents?
>>213355082
I agree. The particular thread you're responding to started with someone making the ludicrous claim >>213352833 that believing Starfleet had stringent entry requirements was retarded.

>>213355088
Are you equating being "used" with being "useful"? That's kind of incredible, bordering on really stupid.
>>213355208
Wow. How can we look at the same facts, and yet draw diametrically opposed conclusions? Do you really think the need for purpose and meaning in one's life is a bad thing?
>>213355282
No, Starfleet is populated by such types, not the Federation. That's the point I keep trying to make, yet everyone here seems to miss that.
>>213355492
The Federation offers death by typical Starfleet situations, or death by boredom/ennui. My point, as I've tried to make repeatedly, is that this is not a utopia.

>>213355607
>No, Starfleet is populated by such types, not the Federation.
You literally don't know that.

>>213355282
I assume he’s lonely and can’t comprehend the idea of finding meaning in spending time with friends and family. Unemployed people can produce some children at least

>>213355586
>The people depicted in Star Trek don't seem to be very different from people these days
That's fine. You can just lie about things. We actually watched the shows so we know that you're wrong, but please continue.
>And I never said I wanted to eradicate them.
You didn't need to say it. I used my insight and intuition, knowing that your entire protest is born from a pointless self-preservation mechanism. You would need to kill every future Federation citizen to save yourself, and you would either do it or die out along with the rest of pre-Federation humanity.

>>213351287
Because evil seeks power like a mosquito seeks blood.

>>213355607
>The Federation offers death by typical Starfleet situations, or death by boredom/ennui.
Lol
look at this faggot
he'd be scared of using the transporter because it would kill him
he doesn't understand that the idealistic memetics of assigned individuality under the ethics and rights of the Federation as ordained by the Starfleet charter supercede all primitive desires for self-preservation
he's literally Tuvix-brained
everyone point at him, stare in disgust, and laugh as he's killed for the future of our galactic mission

>>213350259
picard was an alcoholic

>>213355626
And you literally don't know it isn't. It's simply not addressed in the franchise.
>>213355714
I've watched the shows too, but unlike you, I didn't take them at face value; I noticed the subtext that apparently went straight over your head.
>pointless self-preservation mechanism
That's an odd way to admit you're suicidal, but hey, you do you.
>>213355790
Another suicidal closet-case. Not surprised there's more than one on 4chan.

>>213356064
Very good point. He epitomizes the ennui of the Star Trek setting that I'm trying to point out here. Despite being a "successful" Starfleet officer, he retreats to his vineyard in his off time, where he gets drunk on alcohol, not synthehol.

>>213356088
>>I didn't take them at face value; I noticed the subtext that apparently went straight over your head.
>>The people depicted in Star Trek don't seem to be very different from people these days
>muh subtext
lol
So you did watch the shows and you're lying about what you saw when watching them.

>>213356233
>notices less than i did
>YOU LIIIIIIIEEE!!!1!
t. brainlet
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

>>213356256
But like you realise nobody is going to have a real discussion with you when your argument is contingent on Star Trek characters being no different to people these days? Especially the TNG characters.

>>213355607
>Do you really think the need for purpose and meaning in one's life is a bad thing?
If you need to be spoon-fed purpose that means you're a mental infant who can't make his own destiny

motherfucker saw Encounter at Farpoint and thought he was watching cowboy bebop lmao

>>213348461
>This is communism.
No, is just common new age, post hippism trip. Communism is a materialist take, this is why it fails every time. Communism was never able to go to second phase, where the new men is born, they are always stuck on first phase where the state is everything.

>>213353932
No it's not, communism is inherently evil and relies on shaming and coercing people who don't want it

>>213353932
Nah, Roddenberry wrote the Klingons as a parallel to URSS and communism. If anything starfleet is somewhat of socialist utopia.
Socialism is very different from communism.

Man exists to serve his betters. It's what he is bred for. To argue against this is to defy natural law and the way of the vertically solidarical industrialist merger with the heroic pursuit of world conquest by the master race ethnostate.

>>213356293
On a human level, no, the people in ST:TNG are no different, They're just in a different environment. They violate the Prime Directive all the time. Janeway practically turned violating the Prime Directive into a sport. On what basis do you claim people have actually changed?
>>213356485
I never said I had to be spoon-fed purpose; I said that the Federation has a limited number of approved purposes (e.g. joining Starfleet, living in a colony, etc.) and no room for any others, and if my purpose doesn't match up with theirs, I get sidelined and left to rot.
>>213356543
According to the other responders in this thread, you're the sort of person who will be rounded up and executed in the future for the crime of being counter-evolutionary. No seething trolls in the bright new future, you see.

>>213356690
The Klingons were originally meant to be the "other" and the "foreign threat" but then they pivoted to becoming the warlike monarchical clan-based race they are now

>>213352459
This.
Fucking retards.

>>213349543
>Does the Federation have any escape for those who don't want to live in their Communist "utopia", complete with no purpose in life, and high-density Federation housing?
They call you rebels and put you in penal colonies.

>>213356959
>I said that the Federation has a limited number of approved purposes
Yeah, any hobby/occupation you can think of and any field of study is a very stifling number of options
>and if my purpose doesn't match up with theirs
The only """""purpose""""" you've thunk up is being a retarded violent terrorist cell member.

>>213356959
>On what basis do you claim people have actually changed?
On the basis of the characters being different to people today you idiot.

>>213356593
You don't really seem to know what communism is.
I'll start with Capitalism: Capitalism is the idea that people should be able to own capital to generate a profit. That's fucking ALL. Since you're obviously a retard, no doubt you've thrown a bunch of other concepts in there that shouldn't be, like the concept of America, national pride, freedom, all kinds of total bullshit for a stupid dipshit.
All capitalism is, is the concept that you can own capital, and through owning capital, generate profit.
All communism is, is the concept that capital should be owned publicly instead of privately, and the profit should be public instead of private as well. Again, that's all it is. Everything else is just other crap getting tossed in the salad.
I will concede that nobody knows how to get communism to work, and anyone who's tried has unleashed unfathomable suffering. But that's not communism's fault, that's the fault of bad men who didn't know how to create it, tried, and failed.
Blaming communism for that evil is like blaming the knife a killer wielded to slaughter an innocent. Your focus is on the wrong thing. You blame the tool. You should blame the wielder.
In Star Trek in particular, they're not implementing communism; they've already succeeded. Any gay arguments you have about how it's impossible are moot by default because it's a universe where they've succeeded. It may not *actually* be possible, but in the context of the show hating on it just because it's communism does genuinely make you a self-destructive retard. Cutting off your own nose and sacrificing yourself as if capitalism is some feminine God that's going to suck you off for your show of loyalty.

>>213357038
Which is my point! There's no place for nonconformists in the Federation except in prison. The Federation itself is a prison for such people.
>>213357048
Hobbies don't give one purpose. They're by definition a distraction.
And since I'm apparently destined for a penal colony anyway, may as well join the Maquis.
>>213357051
Can't elaborate, can you? Too difficult? I've presented my evidence, and all you can say is "source: trust me bro".

>>213357140
>Hobbies don't give one purpose.
Arguably yes, and so do occupations, jobs and fields of study too
>since I'm apparently destined for a penal colony
The Federation has no penal colonies, retard

>>213356959
>I never said I had to be spoon-fed purpose
You said that 99.9% of the Federation population would be bored out of being useless. It's completely your stipulation that those people are unable to develop purpose and meaning to their lives without being used. Nobody accepts your inferrences to how things "must be" in a version of Star Trek that exists in your mind, because we aren't really interested in engaging with the Star Trek that exists in your mind. The only Star Trek that is relevant is the one that we as viewers know to exist. The version of Star Trek that you have imagined will be destroyed in order to secure the future for the real version of Star Trek, and there's fuck-all you can do about it because the shows are literally available for viewing at any time lmao.

>>213357134
>nobody knows how to get communism to work
Because it's impossible. It goes against human nature. Also, studying what life was actually like in the Soviet Union might enlighten you as to whether they were really able to ditch free-enterprise ideas in any practical way. Spoiler alert: they couldn't.

>>213357225
>Because it's impossible.
On a macro-level it's possible in small societies with little outside contact. Example being Mennonites and how they live regimented, simple, frugal lives according to the Ordnung.

>>213357140
>Hobbies don't give one purpose. They're by definition a distraction.
Wow, sounds like the guy who came up with that definition for what a hobby is needs to get shot. Was it you?

>>213357225
>Human nature
Oh, get real.
As if you know better than GOD what the fuck human nature is or isn't. Shut the fuck up.
Is it in human nature to wear clothes, use the internet, and bitch on 4chan about politics? Obviously not. We do it anyway.
What is or isn't """human nature""" is irrelevant because what is or isn't """human nature""" is just superstition. Human nature is whatever cunty retardation you say it is in the moment, nothing more. That's not an argument.

>>213357216
>hurr durr no penal colonies in the Federation
Are you stupid? In "Star Trek: Voyager", Tom Paris was serving time in a Federation penal colony in New Zealand when Captain Janeway recruited him. Literally the first episode.
>>213357220
Again, you confuse the concepts of "used" with "useful". Are you doing this deliberately, or are you really that thick? And I guess you're right that you're not willing to engage in a discussion of a Star Trek that isn't depicted on screen, even though by all logic and experience it most likely exists. I don't know what I was thinking, expecting 4channers to have imagination, vision, and self-awareness that rises above sheep level. I was wrong. I can admit I was wrong.

>>213357356
>Tom Paris was serving time in a Federation penal colony in New Zealand
I don't watch terrible shows, and your idea of what a penal colony is doesn't apply to the Federation's principles

>>213357356
>Again, you confuse the concepts of "used" with "useful"
I didn't confuse anything. You're just terrible with words and their meaning. There's an explicit reason why everyone's dunking on you for implying that you need to be bestowed purpose upon thyself by either the Federation or otherwise, and it's because you've been arguing yourself in circles for several hours.

>>213357269
>regimented
tyranny
>simple
low technology
>frugal
poor
...and therefore, no relevance to the Star Trek universe.
>>213357352
The day Communism doesn't fall to human nature, you can make that argument. Until then, what you say here is irrelevant.

>>213354333
Untrue

>>213357426
>Gives a real-life example of Communism that can be found in America of all places
>"But ut's nut Stur Truk...."
Right you are

>>213357134
>I'll start with Capitalism: Capitalism is the idea that people should be able to own capital to generate a profit
Not him, but the whole idea of capitalism appears as a solution for the dawn of monarchy. Is not about profit (kek) but about be able to have a common goal with different people and be able to achieve success with the merge of capital trough legal/state based regulation.
> But that's not communism's fault, that's the fault of bad men who didn't know how to create it, tried, and failed.
Its communism fault because Marx never was able to explain how the New Men will appear in a communist society, so second phase is always fucked. Yes its communism fault because Marx wrote it as just an utopian concept. At least Lenin was more honest and he realized how the lumpenproletariat is not prepared to lead any government.

>>213357385
So you hate TOS? The Tantalus Penal Colony was featured in the episode "Dagger of the Mind". Elba II, from the episode "Whom Gods Destroy", is described as a place for "the worst of the worst". You literally know nothing about Trek. I don't even need to get into your pathetic gatekeeping over whether Voyager is nuTrek.
>>213357391
Oh, by the Prophets...I have not once claimed the Federation needs to bestow purpose on anyone. What I keep saying, although you're not listening, is that the Federation only has a limited number of purposes for its citizens that receive any level of support, and if yours is not one of them, you're left to rot.

>>213357426
Explain human nature to me, then.
Because when retards like you mention it, it's just some talisman, some shield to cower behind because, otherwise, you don't have a fucking argument.
What. Is it?
Selfishness? Greed? Etc? What the fuck do you mean when you say that, other than just hiding behind it like a pussy?

>>213357269
>mennonites
>as examples of communism
kek, if anything they are the opposite of communism.

>>213357553
>muh Tantalus
The fact they had to keep their methods a secret from Federation authorities showed how fucked, unsanctioned and abnormal their methods of rehabilitation were.
>"the worst of the worst".
Are you implying you'd be a death-row inmate, you retard?

>>213357587
They don't use the word "Communist" but yes

So, uh, what's with the fucking tankie preaching communism?

>>213357566
Ask to Marx, he was never capable of explain it either. Also remember that Marx lived as a bourgeoise thanks to his wife's work and Hegel's money. He never worked a day in his life beside some commissioned works on newspapers... also he comes from a jewish family.

>>213357553
>I have not once claimed the Federation needs to bestow purpose on anyone. What I keep saying, although you're not listening, is that the Federation only has a limited number of purposes for its citizens that receive any level of support, and if yours is not one of them, you're left to rot.
And then you proceeded to ignore every single poster who reminded you that the people of the Federation are free to develop their own purpose and meaning by circling back to the necessity of human beings not being useless and constantly veering into arguments about them not doing something you would consider useful. Because of the flimsy arguments you have laid out, people have rightfully drawn an equivalence between your idea of people having purpose and meaning to their lives being stipulated by them being used for so-called productive ends, since you disregard any claims that the people of the Federation could have found purpose and meaning in their lives through other pursuits. The entire logic is a circle and it all comes back to that you think people in the Federation must be bored because you would be. It's just silly.

>>213357654
>A patriarchal clan based society united by their faith in God and conservative views of life is the best example for communism.
I grow up surrounded by Mennonites, they are all small capitalists. What's next example? Hamish? Go to bed Ivan, you are drunk again.

>>213357630
In the Federation, I would be. After all, nonconformity is usually punishable by death in Communist regimes.
>>213357733
Fair point, actually. The sheeple would be fine in the Federation, since they don't think much anyway. Nonconformists and existentialists like me would find it stifling. The Federation would have no support for someone like me beyond basic biological necessities. The sheeple would be content with having families and watching sporting events, kind of like they are now.

>>213357356
>I don't know what I was thinking, expecting 4channers to have imagination, vision,
Sorry. Maybe you can ask Hiro or the US Government to make a /fanfiction and headcanon/ board or something.

How normalfag do you have to be to use the word "sheeple" unironically?

>>213357865
>Thinks a community with Communist tendencies founded on religious principles isn't Communist enough
No shit
>Go to bed Ivan, you are drunk again.
You retard

>>213357886
>After all, nonconformity is usually punishable by death in Communist regimes.
You fucking basket-case. Are you illiterate or too thick-skulled to accept information?

>>213347857 (OP)
I knew this one retarded stoner pseud that would seethe whenever I shit on picard

>>213358047
>thinks that a community have "communist tendencies" by default
>retard
Don't be a moron, I don't know where you hear this dumb idea that "mennonites = communists" but all mennonites are capitalist based small societies. To put it simply: no. In fact, many Amish and Mennonite people are prosperous, small capitalists. There are elements of mutual aid and finance in the Amish community, but they still very much exist within the capitalist economy.

Mennonites and Amish have Bank Account, they ask for loans, mortgage, pay taxes, they set up companies for buy/sell stuff, etc.

>>213358469
>"mennonites = communists"
That's not what I meant, they live regimented, frugal, communitarian lives and yet they never read any Communist literature
>Because they have to engage with capitalism to survive they're not very Communist
True but that's not a fault of theirs, it's a fault of their environment.

>>213357887
No need to apologize. You did nothing wrong. Thanks for putting up with me.
>>213357917
I was merely trying to be descriptive. Do you have a preferred term for sheeple?
>>213358085
Totalitarian regimes, especially Communist ones, are very much into "show me the man and I'll show you the crime", so the actual listed crime isn't nonconformity.

>>213358677
What the fuck's that got to do with Star Trek, retard?

>>213358754
Can you be more specific? The preceding portions of the thread should have made its relevance to Star Trek clear.

>>213358677
>Do you have a preferred term for sheeple?
The unwashed mssses

>>213353932
retarded commie cultist. Star Trek isnt even scifi, its sci-fantasy, because only in a midwits fantasy does communism ever 'work'. We've already had real communism at least 3x, and it worked, IF, you understand its real goal, which is to genocide the population of the country its taken over.

>>213353958
based.

>>213354376
>The Q? (One of which met Picard in a liminal space after he died!)
what a writing disaster, in an atheist commie utopian fantasy setting like ST, Picard met a 4th dimensional being AFTER death? really? cringe.

>>213358825
I like "unwashed masses" too, but I was focusing more on their capacity for groupthink and their skittishness in the face of new ideas, so "sheeple" worked better for me. Plus, this prevents some autist from screeching "noooooo everyone has free and equitable access to sonic showers in the future REEEEEE" so I tried to avoid trouble.

>>213358895
I thought it made a fair point—that the Federation's disrespect for religion was completely unfounded, and Picard learned that firsthand. Discounting evidence that conflicts with your worldview, instead of adjusting your worldview, makes one a bigot and advocate, not an explorer.

>>213355208
just admit you're a subreddit moderating dogwalker so we can all disregard your cringe takes and go elsewhere anon. You fucking pseud.

>>213358577
>communitarian
mongoloid retard, there was already a word for this, you didn't need to invent more good-think words pseud. Communal living. Which only works long-term in mostly family-oriented societies.

I have ancestors who were literal serfs in italy, the only way that diet-slavery system worked, was with family-commune plots of land. Long term nothing else works.

op asked for "incredible" Star Trek quotes, but i doubt this sperg-out is what he had in mind

>>213359180
>muh reddit
Don't speak out of turn you dago faggot

>>213358577
>That's not what I meant, they live regimented, frugal, communitarian lives and yet they never read any Communist literature
A communitarian life isn't communism. Most clan based societies of past, like the bedouins or natives, lived in a communitarian style of life, but communism is not just about communities, is a philosophical way of life with emphasis in materialistic issues, that's why they rejected spiritualism as a whole. Anyway, all clan societies like mennonites or amish are spiritualistic as fuck.
>True but that's not a fault of theirs, it's a fault of their environment.
Dude, Mennonites know they can avoid pay taxes if they conform a small companies to buy/sell products, thats capitalism and a lot of them are very wealthy, but they don't show just because of their traditions.

Picard defends my right to be a space Nazi.

>>213359530
bawww the commies trying to be an edgy racist to the white guy, how scary. Go deliver some doordash and ban someone from your groomercord or something you untermensch faggot.

>>213359799
not sure how thats pro-nat soc ideals in any way, sounds like a cringy boomer-yanks 'muh freedumbs' take.

>>213360161
>pro-nat soc ideals
Its not. But he's defending my right to hold them.

>>213360161
>the commies
Just because you talk about Communism doesn't make you a Communist, Benito
>the white guy
>Italian
Good one, retard

>>213353371
Col Green did nothing wrong.

>>213354030
Me on the left.

>>213360396
mhm ok untermensch. I also have literal third reich ancestry too, in the same italian tree, but don't let that stop you being a bitter subhuman. Especially when you lack basic reading literacy and didn't understand the point i was making at all.

>>213352167
>DNA can't be changed
No, but our perception of what is masculine and what is feminine has constantly changed over the millennia.

>>213360622
>Yankee retard thinks he can talk down to anyone based on his worthless ancestors

>>213353371
>WW3 was almost a nothingburger compared to what it could have been

Six hundred million people dead and every major city lying in ruins is a "nothingburger" to you?

>>213360683
>retarded mongrel thinks he's talking to a yank.
I've given you plenty of info, you have enough to not make retarded comments, yet you persist in being a moron. Just stop @ing me its cringe.

>>213360709
that'd be a good thing these days. You'd take out mostly shitskins and gooks doing that today.

>>213360396
I talk about Communism but I'm a National Socialist. Sieg Heil.

>>213360738
>muh mongrel
Kraut with Italian blood shouldn't talk

>>213354092
>>>213354092
>"great material continuum" scene was genius:
Agreed, great episode and lots of fun Ferengi development.

>>213348326
>>213348461
yea I'm gonna say based.

>>213360812
i couldnt think of a better european ethnic mix than german and italian. Pure anti-semitism at the genetic level. Not to mention northern italians have a large % of german ethnicity anyway.

>>213361161
>i couldnt think of a better european mix than my own
It explains why you're sucking your own dick so hard

"I am LeCutie of Borge! Resting is Futile! You're life is a failure! Drop your weapons now and prepare to service my body!"

>>213353961
They mostly outwit Q but there's that "God" on that empty planet with his wife who just wanted to be left alone, that being or race of beings that hijack Barclay to bring the enterprise to them and pick related. I dunno why they don't have Q interact with this other assholes too though.

>>213357134
>You don't really seem to know what communism is.
How do you achieve communism without coercion? You can't, so it is inherently immoral.

>>213356690
Communism itself is even different from what the USSR became especially under Stalin. It might've been more akin to Communism had Trotsky taken over instead of Stalin.

>>213356705
And the strong shall devour the meeks reward!

>>213351283
>larping as a troon with 2016 talking points in year of our lord 2025

>>213361407
How do achieve law and order without coercion?
You can't, so it's inherently immoral. So, the concept of having laws or a police force is now immoral.
Does that sound retarded?
That's because it is.
YOU are a fucking retard. Your argument is fucking retarded. The ultimate point of what I was trying to say is that failed/bad means do not make bad ends. Communism is fundamentally good. It's literally a utopian ideal. There is no POSSIBLE downside to communism, as in, if communism did exist, it *would* literally be the perfect society.
You can say that it's impossible, and alright, I agree with you. I'm not a communist for that exact reason. I really, truly do think it's impossible.
I also don't believe in heaven, but I would rightfully call anyone who called heaven "immoral" a massive fucking idiot. If you could get into heaven, it would obviously be better.
We're not having an argument on the basis of whether or not we should pursue communism. For better or worse, I agree with you that it's impossible, and it's not worth seeking. I just take issue with you being laughably fucking ignorant and stupid about it. You are literally, LITERALLY virtue signaling, and I think it's annoying. You're just a dumb cunt, and you don't know what you're talking about, you're just saying rote phrases as if one of your faggot twitter friends is going to come in here and give you a high five.

Resistance is futile. You have no way of knowing if this is based reality and if it's Godless or not.

why are you even on this website if you're a religious freak? shouldn't you be in a church talking to your imaginary friends?

>>213361544
>How do achieve law and order without coercion?
Logical fallacy. False equivalency. Obviously.

>>213348461
You're not making Star Trek sound worse, you're making communism sound better.

>>213361544
>So, the concept of having laws or a police force is now immoral.
I mean it is for normal people who follow the law, but not enforcing basic moral laws against murder etc is more immoral so it's fine. Not instating communism doesn't outweigh the immorality of instating it

>>213361619
it is a logical fallacy, and everything you said it is; I only used it because you said it first and I was mocking you, dipshit. What you're saying is a critique of your own retarded logic.

>>213361774
NTA

>>213361551
The blind man assumes no one else can really see.
Of course there's a God; Creation implies a Creator.
However, this does not imply God wrote us a book.
Indeed, it is quite obvious, from simple observation, that God is completely indifferent to our fate.
The ultimate meaning of our lives is to become one with God. One method for achieving this is meditation, but there are others.
Some people spend lifetimes, and millions of dollars, to achieve this knowledge. Aren't you glad you were on 4chan tonight, reading about Star Trek?

>>213361192
cope muttgolem.

>>213361220
yes maam! gimme dat cyber booty

>>213348326
>we also have 3d goon caves that can make any fantasy a reality, so that helps, too

>>213352739
Your shitter would unclog itself by resequencing your shit into protein for your next meal.

But yes, I get your point, not all things can be post-scarcity. Land and people will always be scarce by virtue of not being fungible.

>>213353241
>WW3 was so traumatic and destructive
It wasn't WW3 that fixed humanity, it was first contact. You'd know this if you watched First Contact. Humanity discovered that there were enemies they needed to unite against outside the planet, so they put their differences aside to fight their mutual adversaries. The Vulcans.

how is this thread so damned long
it's not a very quotable show

>>213361428
>Trotsky
Did you read The Permanent Revolution? If Trotsky take over instead of Stalin, civil war was the only outcome. Remember he was not only opposed to Stalin and Bujarin, but closer to Mijaíl Bakunin rather than Lenin.

>>213348326
I refuse to believe everyone wouldn't just spend 100% of their time jerking off in the holodeck

>>213362419
maybe that's why they don't have room holodecks.

>>213362372
It's all what if regardless just Stalin was more a dictator than he was a communist. Less people probably would've died under Trotsky though.

"No ma'am, no dipshit."

>>213351927
Perhaps you are the grandpa

>>213362419
people like that wouldn't pass on their genes

>>213362547
stalin was the only reason the soviet union lasted as long as it did, for better or worse

>>213356547
Pretty much this.

>>213362372
>>213361428
>>213362547
>>213356547
you're all retarded, pseudo-intellectual pussies who can't even address >>213358895

>>213362419
true, but they wouldnt get the job to begin with if they were just gooners.

>>213362658
Still speaking on what if. What is certain though is it's far more probable millions of Stalin's own people wouldn't have died and the Cold War and WW2 would've played out much differently.

>>213363091
I didn't give a shit about addressing you but with enough technological advancement and understanding of human emotion/issues you can weed out or curtail elements that would cause problems like in Soviet Russia or Communist China.

>>213363252
Yes, like i said, you're a pseudo-intellectual pussy who still doesn't even have the balls to read the info-image. You don't understand the first thing about communism, and never will with that attitude.

>>213363162
it would have likely played out the same but with a different psychopathic dictator in charge. Trotsky was no real 'leader', he was always destined to be killed by a more ruthless communist than him. He was but a cultural termite, same as Lenin, he only understood tearing down a society, not leading it.

>>213347857 (OP)
The Picard is angry

>>213361589
well be on the christian minecraft server without you

>>213361544
You're a moral relativist. "Good" and "ideals" only exist in your worldview as a subjective preference. No one should take anything you say seriously.

>>213363370
Because I don't give a shit what some asshole capitalist shill has to say who probably stuck his finger up his ass then sniffed it profusely before replying. You clearly don't know shit about history with that outlook little buddy. Schools back in in a few weeks can't wait till shitheads like you fuck off for longer periods of time.

>>213351800
>The Kommendant is a fool. He doesn't understand. He has never embraced the Fuhrer or his vision. One does not co-operate with decadent forms of life, one hunts them down and eliminates them. The Kommendant speaks of civilization; the ancient Romans were civilized, the Jews are civilized but in all its moral decay, Rome fell to the spears of our ancestors - as the Jews are falling now.

>Look at our destiny. The field of red, the purity of German blood. The blazing white circle of the sun that sanctified that blood. No one can deny us, no power on earth or beyond. Not the Christian saviour, not the god of the Jews. We are driven by the very force that gives life to the universe itself.

>We must countermand the Kommandant's orders, stay and fight. We must be faithful to who we are.

They really went to town on that holo-nazi, huh?

you have to consider Picard's position in society.
he's literally in the upper echelons of Federation society.

can everybody have a family vineyard like the Picards? they had workers and those workers didn't just work for somebody else for the betterment of humanity.

somebody will always have to do the shit jobs

I see the Federation as the WEF's 2030 ad from 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev9ct5BmAcY

you won't own anything but that doesn't mean others don't, it just means you can't but you'll be happy with what you have access too, but if you think outside of the approved state propaganda you'll be viewed as a retard retrograde.

it works for the Earth of Star Trek because if you don't like it you can leave.
however just look at how the Maquis and DMZ colonists were treated by the Federation. they were no different than the Bajorans in the sense they were fighting for their homes.

Picard and Sisko both exalted and practically paternalized and infantilized the Bajorans. whereas with the colonists it's like get fucked.

it's really no different than how some whites treat black/brown people but will treat a white person in the same condition like trash to be thrown out.

it that just soft bigotry coming from a place of perceived authority. in our time it's about race but Trek has moved beyond race and it's about species but it's all the same.

>>213363558
you could've just said "i concede."

>>213364017
But I didn't, I told you I'm not buying your bullshit and don't give a shit about pissants like you. Thanks for confirming you sniff your own ass though kinda had a feeling.

>>213364118
anon. you haven't said anything in response to >>213363370 that amounts to anything beyond "i have no response, but i am ANGRY." which means you, ultimately, concede all points.

>>213347857 (OP)

>>213364144
Nope I sure didn't and we can just keep going back and forth till we reach thread limit and you can fuck off and find some other anthill to play with.

>>213350259
This part always stuck out. Really easy to stick your nose up at people who want more to life tha just exist when your family is rich af land owners and the average colony is jerking off to the fact they have running water.

>>213363496
How is any of that morally relativistic? I don't get it.

>>213364212
you continue to say absolutely nothing of note, merit, or worth, after conceding all points at >>213363558

>>213363904
It's fantasy.
The same way magic works in certain fantasy, communism works in Star Trek.
Instead if bitching and moaning about it, just stop being such a propagandist cunt and take it for what it is, goddamn.
I don't think warp drives are possible either; you going to bitch about those next? You going to bitch and complain about how Gandalf shouldn't actually be able to manifest light with his staff?
Ultimately the problem here is just that you're too cynical, cunty, and filled with faggy political loyalties to just enjoy science fiction as science fiction. Even in your private time you need to virtue signal about being a good boy who hates or... Or what? Who the fuck are you performing for?
You have a faction. You're a little runt constantly going through a humiliation ritual to prove your loyalty to some hypothetical political faction. Ultimately, that's why I hate pricks like you. You're spineless. A weasel. The only thing that matters to you is good boy points from twitter pundits who don't know you and don't give a fuck about you.
Pathetic twerp.

>>213364313
Likewise. You want this dragass debate but already made up your mind. What is the point? You're continuing because you haven't reached your dopamine quota yet which you could rub one out to achieve vs making believe you've proven a stranger wrong on the Internet who hasn't even really engaged you. You don't want discourse and you've made it abundantly clear with how hard you want to be right.

>>213363904
>can everybody have a family vineyard like the Picards

no, but if you have a generational claim to a piece of land there's zero reason to attempt to refute that. if you want a vinyard, hop on a ship and go make one on another m-class planet. this is literally what happened when the new world was discovered. "This land is free" wasn't talking about freedom, it was talking about the fact literally all of the land in the US was free to whoever claimed it first.

>>213364430
likewise nothing, >>213363370 is the final conclusive word in that little debate. You haven't said anything in response to it, beyond "I'M ANGRY," therefore it stands unopposed.

>>213364464
Nope I oppose it and you proved me right that this was just about you being right.

>>213364485
in order to oppose something, you need to say something that opposes it. repeat, "I AM ANGRY" is not opposition. its concession.

>>213364511
I oppose it, I disagree with you but choose not to engage you because you don't want to have actual discourse you want to masturbate all over the page.

>>213364560
if you disagree, you either say why, or you concede.

>>213362419
that's why starfleet has like, 0.1% of the earth human population and that's not even counting the other races in there. we're watching the adventures of the extremely small minority of weirdos who leave their colonies specifically to be killed by god-aliens, fight monsters and "do science" on their death boats

>>213364581
I did say why and it's because the discussion is fruitless. The fact that you need to say I concede is proof enough of your ego and intentions. Reply number 296 almost at bump limit, let me start adding images to hasten this a bit.

>>213363091
>you're all retarded, pseudo-intellectual pussies who can't even addres
>We've already had real communism at least 3x, and it worked.
Sorry, cannot address fantasy.

>>213364660
>i did concede
yeah, that's what i've been saying. you said nothing of debatable/arguable quality other than you're angry and you disagree. thus, you conceded. you might just be too stupid to understand what a discussion/debate is. you might just want to get angry at facts despite being unable to say anything in response. some people like that. some people like laughing at that. like me.

>>213364660
>>213364708
What are you faggots arguing about? Stop shitting up the thread

>>213364708
But I didn't concede. I saw who you were and knew what you were about and you further have proven that. If you really did believe in what you were shilling you would've added more to it rather than having this need to be right and needing me to "concede". You've completely lost the point at this point.

I hate autism slapfights. Shut the fuck up you queers.

>>213362547
>Less people probably would've died under Trotsky though.
>civil war with trotsky
>dictatorship with stalin
I don't know, if Trotsky won, the only way to keep everything tied will be through a military government, like almost all communist regime in the world.
>Stalin was more a dictator than he was a communist
"not true communism" become somewhat of eternal cope. You cant separe "dictator" from communism: "The dictatorship of the proletariat" is the base concept in Marxist theory.

>>213364762
Nothing, that anon sniffs his own farts and is trying hard to get me to take a whiff.

>>213364762
this is an inherently shit thread, so don't worry.

>>213364784
i am challenging you, the poster of >>213363558 to say something in response to >>213363370 that has anything resembling substance. you can't. which amuses me.

>>213364837
>>213364840

>>213364840
I don't want to mainly because you're an asshole that doesn't want to have a discussion but wants to spew out his own narrative. It's the difference between winning and learning from an argument. I would learn nothing from you other than how big your ego is.

>>213364914
>i don't want to do anything but concede angrily

okay

>>213364925
Still haven't conceded though. Still replying to your dumbass and you're still proving this was about stroking your own ego.

>>213364981
say something or concede. that's all that happens in pure information space. your feelings are irrelevant.

>>213364955
I love Wonder Showzen. I don't think I remember ever seeing this pic on 4chan. Not one of the more well known ones.

>>213365007
Something xD

interrogative!

>>213365039
>i concede
its even the same number of characters, not counting the emoticon

>>213365098
Your terms were say something or concede and I said something so I didn't concede. You lose :)

>>213365027
Can't remember where I found it but saved it. I wish that show had one more season or a movie.

>>213365144
now you're hiding behind ESL hyperliteralism. sad.

>>213365222
But you lost. It was beautiful anon. Denial is a big hurdle to clear I know, you'll get there though.

>>213365282
what did I lose? i have merely stated the fact you said nothing in response to >>213363370, and you can't refute that.

>>213347857 (OP)

>>213365310
You said say something or concede. I said something so I didn't concede. /thread

>>213365373
every post you've made since>>213363558 has been a concession, rajesh. no ones trolled. just feel really sorry for you that this is the most attention you've gotten in days. that you learned my language to post on my websites out of desperate need for validation from me.

>>213347857 (OP)
>meanwhile literal gods and other supernatural entities exist all over the star trek universe and in other dimensions bordering it

>>213365431
Projecting now are we? Here's a cute little Klingon target for your troubles little buddy.

>>213365488
and they really don't give a shit about this plane of existence because of all the other shit they can access. its a soft-solution to the fermi paradox. why don't they contact us? because they don't need to. why can't we detect them? because we're not at that level yet.

apollo and Q are the only exceptions, one did it for nostalgia, and he was the only one of the pantheon, the other did it because of boredom.

>>213365570
do they study a planet for a while to make sure the people living on it are worshipping one of the many real gods in star trek before they start calling them superstitious retards?

>>213365832
no. they use warp capability as the measurement of civilized or not. OP quote is from an episode where a con artist was trying to become god-queen of a warp capable civilization because of some ancient religious bullshit.