Thread 213379117

Wouldn't it have been easier just to replace Kang's actor, instead doing whatever the fuck Marvel's doing now?

>>213379117 (OP)
It wouldn't have mattered, the villain doesn't even need to be built up properly - Thanos was a joke pre-IW.
The problem with the MCU currently is that it lacks funnel points, Infinity saga would have big crossover movies every few years that meant even if you didn't keep up with everything you could get the basic gist of the overarching story by just watching those (Avengers, Age of Ultron, Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame)
Now though? It's literally impossible to know what's gonna be important from the 10 releases they do a year when everything is solo stories.
Ant-Man was apparently a big tentpole release for the "Kang saga" but you wouldn't know since it's just another Ant-Man movie from the outside looking in.
All the important figures need to meet up frequently to advance the story or else people just stop giving a shit.

i think they recognized nobody cares about Kang so the additional drama over the replacement wasnt worth it.

They replaced Bruce Banner and War Machine and nobody gave a shit.

>>213379297
That's an incredibly good point, one I don't think I've ever seen articulated before. I followed the MCU in 2012-2019, I wasn't exactly catching every movie (or even most of them) but I never felt lost or like following the plot was a chore.

>>213379117 (OP)
they are doing nostalgia bait shit now, other than that the only ips that work are GotG and Spider-Man.

>>213379703
neither iron man nor the incredible hulk were as popular as quantumania.

Kang was never a popular character. He was with certain writers, but the audiance would bitch about his appearances and his merch... action figures and whatnot were never in demand. No kids favorite villian was Kang. Saying that would be grounds to call you a faggot.

>>213379117 (OP)
I don't think it could have worked because it showed other characters played by the same dude and I bet they were chomping at the bit to show some CGd shit where Johnathan Majors was actually in the very first Iron Man or some shit where HE WAS THERE THE WHOLE TIME!
>but they just change the guy
Wouldn't have worked as a fake revelation to sell gay nerds, they got the new guy who replaced Johnathan Majors in the first Iron Man? Not even the dumbest marvelslopper would buy that. Also Kang, like Brainiac, is fucking boring and no-one fucking cares

>>213379117 (OP)
Tbh there were broader problems than Majors or even Kang as a character. Looking back i think the only way to maintain the long term health is to take a 5 year break and reboot and recast everything after Infinity War/Endgame. Just do a hard reset and build up anticipation

>>213379117 (OP)
The plan for this nigga was that he would appear at every movies but would come back again because that's an other version of him each different time, boring

and nigga got beat by ants

>>213379898
they also used a charisma vacuum diversity hire guy and he was killed by the ants.

>>213379780
Yeah the movies are just missing consistent characters.
I saw a tweet the other day that said Chris Evans appeared as Captain America in the MCU every single year from his introduction up until Endgame, and while that's not exactly accurate since in some instances (Thor 2 and Homecoming) he's just a cameo, Cap's story was something we got consistent updates on through the entire decade leading up to Endgame.
Compare that to Captain Marvel, Thor, Spider-Man or Dr. Strange now, all of whom have maybe had one or two starring roles over the last 5 years.

>>213379898
>Kang was never a popular character.

Which is irrelevant
GOTG became a popular franchise and most people hadn't heard of the characters

The failure of MCU Kang is all on Feige and Marvel Studios

>>213379117 (OP)
Kang is boring. There's jokes that the secret wars kang figure from 1984 shelf warmed up into jurassic park toys being released. No one wanted his toy, his trading card, he doesn't show up in video games. No one gives a shit about the character, cause the character doesn't work. He is essentially a time travel god. He shouldn't lose, ever. That's boring as fuck though, of course the good guys have to win. So he's a jobber. Also boring, but less nihilistic. Doom is interesting and has a huge fanbase. Why its RDJ, idk. Doom is a good idea to get people interested, I suppose RDJ... might work, Ill wait and see.

>>213380406
GOTG rode on the hype train of the infinity saga and the gap of no sci-fi movies. It came out before new star wars and then star wars ended up being bad. People were going to see GOTG 2 and Black panther in case the soul stone showed up in it. The movies were never that good, the hype blinded people. Once the hype wore people actually had to think for themselves if they liked it. They didn't.

>>213379117 (OP)
I think they realized the guy with random vague CGI powers with some random vague plan who would appear differently very randomly was not a thing anyone would like

No one really knows what his powers were and it was almost like a mad libs character. You could beat him over and over again and that was the big deal but he was really undefined
Human with futuristic technology could mean anything and they never defined it
Kids can't play toys with that shit and adults know it's harry potter rules so it's just not good

Doom could work because he's limited and semi well defined. Hes the second best magician. Inventory, scientist and hand to hand fighter

rumor has it that part of majors’s contract says that only he was able to play the role. it’s why he was playing every single variant we saw. apparently they legally can’t recast him.

>>213380076
this is pretty much what’s happening after secret wars. they’ll reset most of it to have x-men and fantastic four in the world but they’ll keep certain actors like tom holland

>>213380891
Nobody knew what Thanos powers were before infinity war

>>213379117 (OP)
Kang was never going to work, in fact Marvel was pretty much done after Endgame.
>Pre-Avengers movies come out, they're pretty great
>Avengers comes out, now the whole run leading up to it plus itself is amazing
>Next sequel movies aren't as good (maybe except Winter Soldier)
>Everyone forgets Age of Ultron was hugely disappointing and the whole MCU felt like it was losing steam
>Civil War comes out and it feels like AoU part 2, was a lot better but the fruit is almost squeezed dry
>Finally Infinity War comes out, everyone loves it
>Endgame comes out, the movie kind of sucks, no one likes time travel or any of the other changes they made, its just a goodbye to the rest of the MCU up to this point

And thats it, we're done, we're fatigued, we've said goodbye and its over. The problem is Marvel is a corporation and needs to keep shitting out success ad infinitum, so since they promised their investors phase 4-100 they have to deliver that. And guess what? Theres nothing left. No more soul, no more creativity, no more stories to tell, they would really have to either take a long break or reset the universe which they're being told not to do.

So instead, now we have multiverse crap (which also invalidates any and everything), time travel, a bunch of aging actors who stopped caring 3 paychecks ago, a bunch of Disney+ slop that no one cared to watch yet is needed to understand the nonsense lore they've introduced in the later movies, and now they have money men breathing down their neck to replicate the lightning in the bottle they captured or else. Its not going to work, not with Kang, not with Doom, not unless they slow the fuck down, renegotiate with the original starts, find good new stories to tell, and try to start this whole thing over again with a new generation, with new ideas, and see if they can start again.

Instead you'll be enjoying a frankenstein monster of slop, cameos, references, nostalgia, and most of all pure condensed eye rolling shit.

>>213380994
I'd keep Spiderman and Deadpool and maybe try a Thor/Guardians movie in the meantime. Release one of those are year while you reboot everything else

>>213379117 (OP)
It's forbidden to recast actors in cape movies now. Don't ask me why, it just is. Especially if the actor died, but even if they got fired due to some controversy. It just doesn't happen anymore. It is only allowed (and only sometimes) when they reboot the entire universe.

>>213379297
Not having an Avengers film at the end of each phase was what fucked them. Also I’ll always think that calling Avengers 4 “Endgame” was the single biggest mistake they could’ve made. They knew damn well (especially after getting X-Men and F4 back) that they were going to keep making stuff. Would’ve saved a lot of retarded normies from going
>”BUT I THOUGHT IT ENDED AT ENDGAME *picks nose and eats it*”

The difference between Thanos and Kang (and now Doom) is that Thanos was left room to build up momentum.

Through a number of movies first you dealt with his subordinates so the hype generally increased, plus collecting a set number of items (infinity stones) gives a hard limit on what the "plan" is, so the audience gets what the goal is and where they are roughly in the overall arc.
This goes a long way into establishing a larger structure and getting people invested into following beat-by-beat how things unfold.

With Kang they botched this by having him pop up right away and start goofing off. His plan and what he's even up to was left nebulous and poorly defined. His powers are poorly defined. The extent of what he's doing or what the plan even is was left vague. Even if you watched Loki and Ant-man it's still unclear what his deal even is and what needs to be done or not done to stop him or what stopping him even means. It's all vague "gotta preserve the timeline" nonsense talk that can be "resolved" by some random mcguffin they invent on the spot.
"we have to retrieve the time energy spigot from a collapsing quasar in the bidoof pocket universe that can be only accessed through a manhole in the corridor of time in the time agency's back room at 11pm Chicago local time in 1979" yeah bro whatever, sure go do that....

>>213381149
They could've called Endgame anything else (except Infinity War part 2, because part 2 movies always lose viewers who never saw the first part), it wouldn't have matter since by the end of it the leads were retiring and most thought it was a good point to call it quit.

>>213381046
I liked Dr.Strange 2, Spider-man No Way Home and Deadpool & Wolverine. They are coincidentally all crossover movies. I think it does cheapen things though. This safety net of just pulling in some other wolverine from some other universe. It's lame. The movies are fine, but the investment I have into them for character moments is lessened. The soul is gone. I do think some creativity exists though. I liked that Tom Holland was so bothered by sending the villains to die, he wanted to help them. That is a big difference between him and the other spider-men. He has that innocence of a child and it worked really well as a plot point. Then again.... now you're dealing with alternate timelines out the ass and they're not addressing it.

I'm not a racist, but Jonathan Majors is so distractingly ugly. Like seriously, what the fuck were they thinking when they casted him? Why couldn't they have just CGI's his face like they did with Thanos?

Everytime I see his face I get so upset

>>213381149

The naming is less of an issue. Nobody really cares about that since even the braindead audience knows that more movies are gonna get made.
The problem is that they retired the main cast of heroes (all men) around the same time.
Captain retired, Stark was dead, the rest of the male cast they had "pass the torch" to some shitty sidekicks or randos that have no screen presence or cool factor.
They literally offloaded the entire franchise to a cast of b-listers and brown women and expected people to give a shit.

>>213381346
Unironically he seems like a goofy kind of actor. Zero menace coming from him. Just looks too zesty or something, like his entire career is just Madea movies.

>>213381302
evans & RDJ left and chadwick died. everybody else stayed. that’s not really an excuse. you normies using the actors as an excuse is extremely retarded because only mouthbreathers and women showed up to these just for a couple actors.

>>213379297
This plus now it's not just movies, you have to watch 5 terrible miniseries per year to know what's going on. Thunderbolts was genuinely pretty good, but you have no idea who half the characters are unless you watched the terrible Falcon/Winter Soldier series, the terrible Hawkeye series, and the terrible direct to TV Black Widow movie. I don't think it would be as much of an issue if these shows were of decent quality but few of them were.

>>213381359
>Spider-Man, Deadpool, and Wolverine are b-listers
Sure thing, faggot

>>213379117 (OP)
Kang had no time to cook. He showed up at the end of a TV show not enough people watched and didn't seem menacing. Then he suddenly showed up as the main villain in an Ant Man movie, and got his ass kicked by ants. Not a good start if you're trying to make this guy out to be a threat. Some people are asking who the fuck is this guy. How is he suppose to be an ongoing threat if Ant Man can beat him. So they're probably already rethinking the whole thing at that point. Then suddenly the actor who plays Kang beats a white woman. Then it turns out he has a history of beating white women. At that point the character is forever tainted. Even if you recast him he's the guy who beats up white women. The stigma is there. So it was an easy decision to just dump the character as a whole and rearrange the plot

>>213381442
Making him the direct villain of a C-lister's movie was a dumb idea if he was supposed to be a 3-phase big bad. Thanos was always in after-credits shit and only hinted at.

>>213380785
I assure you that no normie sat down in their seats for GOTG 2 thinking to themselves “gee I really hope the soul stone shows up.” They wanted to see the raccoon and the tree blow shit up to a nostalgic 80s tune.

>>213381442
>Kang had no time to cook.

There was nothing to cook. They botched his entrance. He should've been more menacing and intense to the point that he conveyed immediate danger. Instead every time he showed up it was some clownish performance, like he's the court jester to the main villain.

>>213381482
The thing about Thanos was they built how he was going to be a threat over a long period. The sprinkled the infinity stones out in front of the audience over time. Then they revealed what you could possibly do with them if you got them all. Suddenly this looming badguy who seems to be bidding his time becomes a much bigger threat. He's not charging in. He's not dancing around like a clown. He's patient, letting the power come to him. With Kang it was like "uhh he's suppose to be smart and there is one of him in every universe, sooo you guys should be afraid...maybe?"

>>213381492
thats exactly what normies were doing, there were dozens of articles about the soul stone before its release. Mean while diehard fans already knew it wasn't appearing.

>>213381573
Seriously. The trailer for antman 3 made kang more interesting than the movie. It seemed like Kang was offering Scott Lang more time. A man who missed out on seeing his daughter grow up, twice. The trailer was compelling and emotional and puts the hero in a real difficult position. Then the movie comes out, that's gutted and it's Kang saying go on this quest or I kill your daughter. It's cartoonish and flat and well beneath the antics we'd seen out of Loki or Thanos. You can't cook that, it stinks.

>>213379117 (OP)
Did Marvel have to do the meme tho? Majors was and still is a KANG!

>>213381346
He Wuz KANGS N SHEEEEEITTT!

>>213379809
i started hating more on quantumania after evangeline lily announced she retired because of it

>>213379117 (OP)
It was more than just the actor's legal issues, the character itself was proving a dud so far. Thanos was mainly built up in Infinity War, just having brief cameos beforehand, however, the basics of "space bad guy who wants to collect the Infinity Stones" were there from early Phase 2 onward, so Infinity War just had to introduce him as a character to the audience, we already knew what his basic goal was.

Kang was just incredibly lame, and Phase 4 (and 5?) were not doing anything to help the perception. He looked silly, his name was silly, and nobody outside of comic nerds knew him, and even then, it wasn't like he was some fan favorite, beloved by all comic fans. His only MCU appearances being a chump in Quantumania and a one episode character in Loki was a baffling decision.

Doctor Doom already has more pop cultural penetration thanks to various Fantastic Four adaptations, Marvel cartoons, and other appearances for example in video games like Marvel vs Capcom, etc. He also was central to the Secret Wars events they are drawing inspiration from (both the original 80s one, and the Hickman one from 2015), and they have the basic hype of RDJ playing a new villainous character. People saying "but he hasn't been introduced", true, but again, neither was Thanos really, back before Infinity War there were similar comments, you only really need one film focused on a villain to establish them, and then wrap up the story in the second film.

Not saying it automatically will work, but I can see why they pivoted entirely away from Kang, and while I simply wouldn't have relied on Kang in the first place, if handed the same situation I would have pivoted too, rather than recast.

It was DOA since they purposefully found the Floydiest looking George around to play Kang, which is peak satire. And then he actually gets accused of beating up his white gf. There was no way this clown world would allow this to play out in any serious manner.

>>213381346
>cast as kang september 2020
>summer of love may - september 2020
>arrives right on time

>>213382063
she's anti-vax and pro-isarael. She's a weird bag for hollywood'd hivemind.

>>213382069

They're already fucking up Doom by rushing it. They should've let him slowly get revealed as a figure behind other villains or events, but they just went right for him since they have to salvage the franchise and fast. And it's kinda clear that they can't keep paying RDJ the insanely high salary so he's going to just show up a couple of times and that's it.

>>213379117 (OP)
Bit late now, that character has been memory-holed and deleted from the timeline. Just another in a seemingly endless line of cluster fucks from Kevin Feige.

>>213380406
>GOTG became a popular franchise a
GOTG were already a popular comic book team since their big revival in 2008, after the Annihilation event, and they continued in other well received comic book events like War of Kings and Thanos Imperative. Likewise they'd started to appear in adaptations; the whole team appearing in the Avengers Earth Mightiest Heroes cartoon, and Rocket Raccoon appearing in Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3. So they weren't Z-listers or something among comic fans.

This doesn't mean they were mainstream, that introduction to general audiences still came from the first GOTG film and it was still a risky venture. However, it does mean it wasn't the biggest surprise in the world to comic fans that the much liked 2008 revival team were picked as a property Marvel Studios was going to make a film of. Much like when they announced say Captain Marvel, that being the modern Carol Danvers version, that wasn't a big surprise, even if she had no mainstream penetration.

It also doesn't mean you can't make a star character out of someone without any comic fan buzz or even a previous push in the comics. But in comparison, Kang really was an odd choice. Even if he has been around for a long time as an Avengers bad guy, to my knowledge he hadn't really been all that focused on in recent decades, much less appearing in adaptations ( the only one I recall seeing him in was the Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes cartoon, never any video games or other cartoons or anything). So making him the Thanos successor as overarching villain was just a weird choice from the start. There's no real "hook" for general audiences. He's just a dude and he's supposed to be a big deal because it says he is.

>>213381001
But they did know he was after the Infinity Stones, the colorful macguffins from several Marvel movies, and would collect them all to do nefarious things. That's enough without knowing the specifics.

>>213382486
the only thing of not about Kang is who he may or may not be related to. It is a story held over readers heads so he could be slightly interesting.

>>213380914
Then Disney is ever dumber than we thought for allowing that in a contract

I saw Loki but did they ever resolve the Kang shit or was the last thing we see the multiverse Kang senate?

>>213379117 (OP)
This is blocked as an adult image in the UK on 4plebs

>>213381492
By he end of Phase 3, they kinda were. You really could not ask for an easier recurring plot hook than the Infinity Stones. Brightly colored stones that do wonderous things and each has its own name and color, and if you use all of them at once, your wish will come true no matter what it is. And there's a bad guy after them with evil intent.

It's so simple that even normie viewers got into it and enjoyed when a new one popped up with new powers. Green one appears in Doctor Strange and gives power over time, etc.
The multiverse thing was just less compelling other than a novelty of seeing a different art style or some heroes in different outfits, ultimately audiences want to be anchored to one "real" time and place. It's why 616 matters more than any alternate universe in the comics, that's the real time and place. Muddling it with multiverse stuff gets old fast, once the initial novelty wears off.

how often did multiverse shit even come up in the "multiverse saga"? There the doctor strange and the spiderman movies but what else?

>>213382866
Deadpool and Fantastic Four.

WandaVision kicked fans in the nuts over it by casting Evan Peters as Quicksilver. Which now retroactively is even worse. They should have made that a multiverse story and confirmed Agatha used magic to bring in her brother, but got it kind of wrong.

>>213382665
Everyone took the ending of loki as loki cleaning all the kangs out of all the timelines.

>>213382486
I knew Rocket from MvC, it's why it was a little jarring when he had a harsh New York accent in the movie instead of a gruff cockney accent like the game, from Greg Elis. Bradley Cooper did an excellent VA job though, and that's definitely what I hear when I think of the character now (Marvel Rivals more recently has Rocket voiced by Nolan North doing a similar New York accent as well). Both have that quality of "this accent coming out of a racoon is funny" regardless.

>>213383041
>Yes, it's capekino

Yeah probably

>>213379117 (OP)
Kang was dead on arrival

>shitty acting on Loki S1 Finale
>shitty acting in Quantumania
>chimp out IRL

good riddance

>>213379297
For me it’s not as much about having to watch the movies but the TV shows as well. No, I don’t want to watch the Falcon show so I can watch a movie, I want to watch a fucking movie.

>>213384986
That wouldn’t be a problem if the shows didn’t suck

>>213379117 (OP)
They won't replace black actors. Except for Rhodey.

>>213385484
No, it still would. The Netflix shows got only mediocre viewing numbers despite being on Netflix when it was the only game in town and critical acclaim (at first). Likewise Agents of Shield had so low numbers in its first season that ABC was all but begging people to watch it by spoiling that it would tie into Winter Soldier.

>>213385687
Because the shows were mediocre to bad.

>>213385687
>the only game in town

Yes I too remember when Netflix was the only way to watch media and the only media that existed was Jessica jones and black dynamite or whatever

>>213386261
>comparing Jessica Jones to the masterpiece Black Dynamite
Get out

>>213386314
See, the other show around that time was so bad even you don’t remember it

>>213380727
Captain America, iron man, and thor were so fucking boring and disliked far before the movies started to trickle out. Hell, it's the only reason marvel still has the rights, no one else bothered buying the rights. GotG were also similarly c-listers. The MCU as a whole was an exercise in taking forgotten properties and making them relevant. Kang could have been okay

>>213382970
so just 4 films and a show out of the shit ton theyve been pumping out? kinda sad desu