Thread 213385402

I've been rewatching Angel for the first time in probably close to 15 years. It's actually better than I remember it. I'm hoping the same holds true for the 4th and 5th seasons as I remember thinking the shown went downhill in those seasons.

>>213385402 (OP)
Was season 4 Faith and The Beast? It was great (OK, not Jasmine so much).

Even the less great seasons (focusing on Connor) are still cool in their own way, mostly in that its trying hilariously hard to be darker thematically. Kinda a shame what happened with the Gunn and Cordelia characters, but it is what it is. Very solid entertainment.

>>213385471
yeah. I remember liking the beast. and I liked Jasmine in concept but not in execution.

>>213385512
they clearly had no idea what to do with Cordelia after season 2 and Gunn after season 3.

It is the superior show by a stretch
S4 is punished kino, especially Wesley, just unfortunate about the whole Connor Cordy shit you almost have to ignore
S5 is more like Buffy but with Angel's superior cast. It's great even if there are one or two miss episodes (just like early Buffy seasons)

>>213385612
The first first 3 seasons of Buffy are fantastic, after that is shit.

Having the rock guy just punch Cordy’s head off and her never coming back would’ve been a better plot in s4.

>>213385402 (OP)
Best seasons were the last two. Fraid so!

Season 5 is great.

>>213386170
the last season had a really rocky start but it wasn't the worst season overall but it's still a gutpunch they cancelled it just as they were hitting their stride and figuring out the new format. almost wonder if it would have worked out better as some kind of a rebrand, because the wolfram hart relocation totally changed the pacing and feel of the show.

I always remembered the theme song being The Smiths' How Soon is Now but apparently that was the theme for Charmed. Wtheck

>>213385512
Season 4 was the closest they got to a hellblazer comic book feel that they were going for, but too much Connor and Cordy.

>>213386378
Agreed. Had it gotten just one more season, it might have beat Buffy in quality. Great series finale though.

>S tier
Buffy S2, S3
Angel S2, S5
>A tier
Buffy S1
Angel S1
>B tier
Buffy S5, S6
Angel S3
>C tier
Buffy S4
Angel S4
>Shit tier
Buffy S7

>>213386816
personally i think Angel's highs outweigh Buffy's and its lows aren't quite as bad as Buffy gets either.

>>213386969
Angel also has way better comedic timing, like when they go for a joke it’s not some pop culture reference to goku or some shit it’s usually pretty funny.

>>213385402 (OP)
Angel's great. I wish it were a little more episodic in its later seasons so it had more room to breathe, and Cordelia was handled terribly, but it's a great show and arguably better than the last few years of Buffy.

>>213387041
it also feels richer because there's a wider diversity of characters over there from a variety of backgrounds, whereas most of the characters in Buffy are all from the same school. going back into the past with Angel also gives you a fresh locale, even when it's still at the hotel. i always wanted another series set during the 50s in that same location, it was interesting.

>>213385402 (OP)
Season 5 is fucking god tier. They could’ve run with that Angel - Spike buddy cop dynamic for another few seasons.

>>213386819
Agree 100%. This is the patrician ranking. If you do comics too. A tier - Spike After the Fall. C tier - Angel after the Fall. Shit= Buffy Season 8

>>213388137
still a shame they never did an Angel/Spike movie. there's still enough time they could do something animated, but they're probably more focused on the nostalgia reboot/requel with Buffy.

>>213388137
>Shit= Buffy Season 8

Oh God, For anyone unaware, all the Buffy comics read like hilariously bad fanfiction. From what I can remember:

>Harmony becomes a celebrity and reveals the existence of vampires to the entire world. She establishes a set of rules that some vampires live by (only biting willing victims, never taking enough blood to kill, never siring new vampires).
>Because of this a good portion of the public now views slayers as "racist" since they target all vampires.
>Angel comes back as evil and destroys "the seed of magic" which causes all magic in the world to cease functioning.
>Because of this, for a time, when a new vampire is sired its a zombie vampire.
>Angel becomes good and they make a new seed of magic.
>Giles gets killed and resurrected as a 12 year old version of himself.
>Some gay boy is a male slayer
>Buffy and Faith fight a Chinese dragon
>The last villain in the series is from some alternate reality and he's aided by The Mayor in his snake form (who didn't die in the explosion as he was invulnerable, it just took him a decade to reform himself after being blown to pieces.).

that 2 part episode were they went to lorne's home world was so good

>>213386170
I love season 4, especially the finale episode "Home" which imo is the best episode of the series

>>213388786
it bothered me how quicky Wolfram & Hart was rebuilt and re-staffed considering we were told The Beast killed everyone in the Los Angeles office. I supposed they could have brought in employees from other branches and hired new ones but it still felt like too quick of a recovery.

>>213388927
I mean they could literally open up portals and just bring in new people from other realms or raise dead employees. Doesn't seem too quick to me, they got magic nigga

>>213388770
3 parts.

>>213385841
I wouldn't say it's shit. Although it is a steep decline after S3 with a lot of shit on the slope. But there are definitely excellent episodes and storylines from S4-7.
Angel is just vastly superior overall

Did anyone actually like spike over Angel? Spike was ugly as fuck.

>>213386819
Almost had it. But should be
>S Tier
Buffy: S2, S3
Angel: S2, S5
>A Tier
Buffy: S1
Angel: S1, S3
>B Tier
Buffy: S5
Angel: S4
>C Tier
Buffy: S4, S7
>Shit Tier
Buffy: S6

>>213389707
I'm not a fag so looks don't figure into it. Spike was simply a more interesting character. Angel is too mopey and a goody two shoes.

>>213389707
"Spuffy" was one of the OG ships on the internet

Will I like this and Buffy if I liked Merlin BBC?

>>213389808
The average UK show rapes pretty much anything mutts put out

>>213389808
Merlin sucked ass

>>213389707
it wasn't ever an either/or thing for me, they're too distinct to compare.

The only thing missing from Angel was Anya.

>>213389707
Angelus > Spike > Angel

>>213389808
maybe, Merlin was definitely made from the mold of Buffy. you might also liked Charmed.

>>213389859
They are obviously meant to be compared.

>>213389728
The tiniest of modifications.

>Senior Partner Tier
Angel: S5

>S Tier
Buffy: S2, S3
Angel: S2

>A Tier
Buffy: S1
Angel: S1, S3

>B Tier
Buffy: S4, S5
Angel: S4

>C Tier
Buffy: S7

>Shit Tier
Buffy: S6

Season 7 is dangerously close to be last. Honestly it depends on my mood.

No other TV character I know of could Aurafarm like angel did. That MotherFucker was straight Aurafarming in every scene!

Season 2 Angel was the superior season of anything in the Buffyverse.

Is it like Supernatural?

>>213389953
It's even more so for women than Supernatural's most fanservice seasons

>>213389923
>redditspacing
>zoomer catchphrasing
>that'sbait.png

>>213389953
Supernatural was definitely inspired by Buffy and Angel. It's basically their successor

>>213385402 (OP)
Based angel anon. Our day will come inshallah.

best girl

>>213389707
I'm not gay or a teenage girl circa 2002 so I don't really have a strong opinion on their looks, but I appreciated Spike as a comic foil. He was fun early on in Buffy and he's great in the last season of Angel but the last couple seasons of Buffy make him a real drag. I appreciate how the writing and Marsters were able to preserve Spike's personality while conveying more warmth after he gets his soul back, but part of me thinks the story would have been better off with Spike dying in season 4 or 5 or something. Still, the character starts strong and ends strong so I guess it's fine.

I didn't care that much about Angel on Buffy, but on his own series he works pretty well.

>>213390046
i hated this at first but it was kino by the end, helped make Wesley the best character

>>213385402 (OP)
i started rewatching angel sunday and early seasons will always be fantastic.

>>213390046
She just makes me miss Fred.

An impressive turn of Amy Acker from adorable to psycho-babe, though.

>>213390342
i feel like if the show had gone on she would have slowly become more human and more like Fred again inevitably

>>213389995
Zoomers did not Fucking make up Aurafarming you Cocksucker!

>>213390366
she would have become another anya and that would suck.

>>213390342
I always thought an Illyria/Faith spinoff would've been very kino

>>213389808
Merlin was definitely a type of spiritual successor to Buffy. It's okay - very good at times, but ultimately only a slightly above average fantasy show. You will probably enjoy Buffy / Angel a lot more desu. Also Uther is a main character in Buffy.

The other poster suggested Charmed, but I would honestly try the BBC Robin Hood series before that. I found that to be very similar to Merlin but even higher quality.

>>213390497
at least an odd couple episode

>>213389922
Sorry but no amount of potentials bullshit even comes close to the willow drug magic shit we had to sit through. The episode where she babysits dawn might just be the worst episode of the series, it's at least in contention (I used to think it was beer bad, but upon rewatching that episode is at least a little funny). S7 also has multiple good episodes even if the third quarter is fucking horrendous. S6 is mostly bad episodes with a good one sprinkled in every once in a while

>>213389992
There's no one anybody could ever possibly believe this. Unironically git gud at trolling you fucking pleb

>>213390581
Season 7 just did not click for me. I can't tell why necessarily because I love the idea of The First in concept. But I don't think the execution ever fully delivered. There were bits of genius, but then invalidated with shit writing soon after.

Angel went from effectively the worst of the main cast when he was on Buffy to top 3 character across both series when he was on Angel.

>>213385402 (OP)
After this picture got posted all the buggy threads just disappeared. This picture singlehandedly exosed what Disney is gonna do

>>213388719
Also, Dawn turns into a giant. Buffy turns into a lesbian. Amy becomes lovers with flayed Warren. So much other retarded shit I don’t remember.

>>213390642
It just gets really shit with the slayers and uber vamps and the u-turn from Buffy's closest friends feels extra inorganic when you consider how the character development pans out across every other facet of the show.
The stuff with Caleb and even Faith to a degree is pretty good. Conversations with Dead People is a good episode even if it is overrated. The finale made the best of a mess in a lot of ways too. It's still in the bottom 2 seasons no doubt, but there really is not a lot good to say about S6 imo.

>>213390704
they shouldn't have killed off Buffy and the end of S5 if they were going to continue the show

>>213390366
Isn't she in the post-show comic books?

>>213390704
Season 6 has grown on me a lot, it's trashy but highly entertaining imo. That said I always skip the episode where Xander leaves Anya at the altar, easily my least favorite episode of the series

>>213390666
Devils trips....
I am exceedingly worried they want to champion the whole
>Buffy was the pioneer of gay strong female leads
angle and make the MC gay in the reboot. Willow being gay was just a storyline in the original, not the centre of the show. And whilst they did handle it tactfully, she was arguably a far more interesting character when she was pining after Xander / Oz.

>>213385402 (OP)
il watch it anon, if you fucked me im gonna throw pee at you

>>213390752
probably but they're very retarded

Season 1 of Angel is best, then Cordelia gets a Mom haircut and it goes downhill

>>213390774
willow was never even gay, she was bi as fuck

>>213390774
>I am exceedingly worried
Nigga grow up

>>213390738
>if they were going to continue the show
this wasn't a guarantee when the S5 finale was made, they switched networks - it's part of why Angel's cameo in the last episode was a genuine shock at the time because they had announced no more crossovers after the network switch

>>213385402 (OP)
>Black guy
>Named GUN

>>213390753
Hells Bells? Is that what it's called? So bad I can still remember the title lmao.
Honestly there is so much dumb shit in S6 that it's genuinely easier to write a list of what works

>>213390800
>NNoooooOOOOOOOoooooOOOO DON'T LOOK FORWARD TO THINGS!!! YOU CAN ONLY COMMENT ON THREADS EYE-HI-RONICALLY!!!
Have sex already you absolute weasel.
The primary demographic of this reboot is the people who were fans of the original, why would I not be invested in at least hoping it's good?

>>213390827
he is a gang member who can only do violence

>>213390789
Cordelia is the hottest person on both series right up until her final appearance. Charisma Carpenter is a thot goddess

>>213390841
Yeah, Hell's Bells. Complete cringe. Yeah okay I get it, Xander has issues because of his parents' dysfunctional marriage but jesus christ it made me hate his guts. As if Season 6 wasn't gloomy and depressing enough

>>213390827
Gunn was based, loved the episode where he and Gwen team up to take down the Yakuza

>>213390954
>Marti Noxon
Literally handed the reigns to an angry lesbian after changing networks, and it's supposed to be shocking that the quality just torpedoes and nosedives instantly. Before Season 6 the biggest problems were how to make the format work outside of a highschool structure. Season 7 had to somehow walk back all the terrible story decisions from the previous season whilst wrapping everything up... almost an impossible job in retrospect.
Does anyone even remember Giles' farm?? Fucking retarded

>>213390789
>>213390952
unironically when cordy has all her giant hair wrapped up in a poofy bun on her head she is perfect. that was the source of her power.

>>213390789
Season 1 of Angel kind of requires watching Buffy up until Angel leaves. Otherwise you miss all of the feels in the episodes Buffy appears in.

>joss was shagging charisma
>char gets pregnant
>joss thinks its his and tells her to abort
>she says its not his
>he gets assblasted at this and then tells her to abort anyway in that case
>she says no
>spend weeks jumping through legal loopholes trying to fire her
>she stands her ground and wins
>he kills her off
>lies to her the following year through intermediaries to get one last appearance and wrap up the character
yes I broke my nda, no I don't think anyone will give a shit since a quarter of a century has passed since then

>>213390952
She was hot until she got the Karen haircut that aged her 20 years. Went from hot bimbo to busted middle aged ho in 0.2 seconds
Fred was more my speed anyway

>>213391123
I've already claimed her anyway. (You) can have Fred

>>213390911
>50 year old man
>excited for a new kids show
>already seething over possible shipping based on memes alone
You:
>ugh-ugh have sex! this show is for me
New Buffy is 15.

>>213391123
>here is your straight-out-of-high-school 19 year old girl, bros

>>213391177
>projecting about age
>projecting about seethe
>projecting about being a shipper
At least you're honest about your reading comprehension. Maybe another eye test gramps?

>>213390991
The show needed more Gwen. Also the molested telekinesis girl was too powerful to ignore. Angel needed to keep her in the fray somehow.

>>213391246
Gwen was supposed to be a main character in S5 but decided to do Chronicles of Riddick instead

>>213390666
I knew deep down that Buffy revival/reboot was going to happen no matter what, but I was honestly expecting them to just flat out do a S8 and bring back SMG and anyone else willing to revisit this series.
These tards are going to learn the same hard lesson that Disney learned with SW; no one gives af about your sequel series or reboot if you aren't even going to make it all about the original cast.

>>213391219
>NOU!
Imagine coping this hard kek

>>213391339
it's a lot easier to convince all these old names to come back for a few episodes vs being regulars in a big series again and it's a safer bet to do a reboot if you have some of the oldheads in it. kind of a best of both worlds situation. frankly some of the people who played the original cast might just not be interested in coming back anyway, and others like Xander's actor is too crazy to do it.

frankly i prefer this over the alternative they were kicking back a few years ago where they were going to do a black Buffy and basically recast all the old characters.

>>213391526
It's still gonna suck dick

>>213391339
>>213391556
It's was always a show for high schoolers. Grow up and move on.

>>213385402 (OP)
>rewatching Angel
Remember to take care of your teeth.
Toothaches are no joke.
Book an appoinment with a local Dentist if its been a while.
Some Dentists in your area may even operate a yearly drop-in clinic at no charge.
It can save your life.

>>213391619
>muh target audience
imagine giving a shit instead of just liking what you like, reeks of insecurity

>>213391619
It was a show for guys between the ages of 18-30, don't kid yourself.

>muh wahmen protag
LOL don't care. Buffy was a male-coded show. Everything from Whedon is male-coded and leans heavily on male gaze, etc. despite all his yammering and virtue-signaling about how much of a feminist he is.
If you ever watched a single sci-fi /fantasy movie in your life and mildly enjoyed it, you don't get to admonish us for liking a show for 'high schoolers'

>>213385402 (OP)
>roommates begin watching mad men
>mostly ignore it except for one fucking twerp I have a reflexive hatred towards
>spends weeks trying to think of where I know that guy
>It hits me out of the blue
>Its fucking CONNOR!
oh man I hate that bitch

>>213391425
Lol you are legitimately mad and it's quite amusing.
I said I was the demographic of the original series? So which is it then? Was I a kid when Buffy came out or 50? Because that would make me about 80 in current year by your estimations kek...
I thought you were an out of touch gen xer at first, but it's clear you are a zoom zoom with the inability to form coherent ideas.

Let's try this again, why does somebody being interested in the topic of a thread you are perusing making you so utterly assblasted? I'm genuinely curious

In retrospect, season 5 was very ballsy. Pretty much a soft reboot of the show, but I suppose it really needed it after season 4.

>>213385554
Cordy was supposed to become a PTB but then the actress showed up to the first day of filming the new season pregnant and Joss had to write a whole new arc of the story.

>>213391659
Huh?
Doyle died of addiction I believe, an overdose
Lorne died of a heart attack
What has that got to do with toothaches??

>>213391768
I had the same reaction, but I knew it was him immediately. I still haven't finished Mad Men because of it. I fucking hate that guy.

>>213391339
The problem is what that would even look like given the original show is about a group of kids (and Giles). In the same way the best episodes in the original show used monsters to tell stories about growing up I think the kind of reboot you're asking for could do the same for adulthood, but that depends too much on who's willing to come back and in what capacity. Say Boreanaz comes back: he's not exactly looking ageless since 2005. Did he fulfill the prophecy offscreen? How underwhelming. Trachtenberg can't come back. Nicholas Brendon seems less than reliable.

A new cast is a gamble but it's the only thing sustainable long-term if it works. It probably won't work, though.

>>213391715
lol? I'm the same age as Buffy and that show was for ME dammit.

>>213391556
probably but if they do all the old characters justice and i get to see them one more time it'll be worth the novelty of that. maybe in the offchance it's good i'd have a new series to watch but i doubt it.

>>213391818
IIRC Lorne's actor died of a heart problem due to an untreated tooth infection, the infection got so bad it got into his bloodstream and to his heart which killed him.

>>213391842
I mean Buffy could have kids, it would make total sense.
Maybe her kid's friend could be a Slayer? turn the idea around a little bit.

Guys, I just want to say, I'm sorry for telling you all to grow up. I'm deeply unhappy with my own life and things haven't being going well for what feels like forever. The only thing close to a dopamine hit that I can get is coming into threads about a show I watched in the background as a kid in between my nightly beatings, and flinging shit around angrily. Don't ask me why I like doing this, I just do okay? It's not like it really achieves anything and it doesn't necessarily make me feel better about myself, but I guess I just have a natural tendency to want to bring you down to my level. I'm aware of my problem and I more than likely won't change. Not because I can't, but because as I mentioned before I just don't have much self-esteem and I simply won't. So just know when I tell you to grow up, it's not because I have anything of any merit to say, it's really just because I'm a faggot and I want to "be seen"... as my contemporaries would say.

>>213391884
If Joss isn't involved in any way it will suck.
I liked his imagination, so I ain't wathing the new shit.

>>213391940
Hey buddy, you're becoming self-aware: that's a big step! Give yourself a pat on the back.

>>213391983
grow up

>>213388137
Hey Spike: Asylum was pretty great

>>213391884
yeh toothaches are no joke

>>213391951
Joss hadn't been good in years even before he got cancelled, he would have just made it lame and gay and put a black chick in it for social brownie points

>>213391940
>pretends to be another anon because he got btfo
Grow up you doublenigger

>>213392027
i had an impacted tooth that i neglected to get taken out for years because i could usually just ride out any blowup with antibiotics but i finally had one really bad flareup and it was the worst pain i've felt in my life, so bad even vicodin couldn't touch it and i already live with chronic pain due to a bad back. i read about the Lorne thing years later so i guess i was lucky all those years the same thing didn't happen to me.

>>213392071
he should hire people who wont actually fuck him for once

>>213392071
He made a passion project victorian capeshit show that more or less fulfills what you described, and it got canceled after one season.
If that's the kind of show he makes with creative control and HBO bux, then he seems washed

>>213392394
he's out of touch and has been in the system too long, all he cared about was fitting in with all his buddies, no longer had that passion and drive that he had as a younger guy. he wouldn't have done anything positive for a revival or reboot.

>>213392394
I just want more Firefly, that's all.
Didn't the Nevers get cancelled, or Joss fired?

>>213390753
Season 6 does have some good "monster of the week" type episodes. IMO that elevates it above 7.

How I would have fixed the show

1. Wesley needed to apologize for his mistakes. Everyone kept apologizing to him
2. Needed some more youthful characters. The actors were getting too old to hold onto the youth demo
3. Angel needed to be more of a leader. Or there needed to be more of a stabilizing 2nd in command. Angel kept going off on his own and the team never felt like a unit with aa leader who can put things back
4. Needed to cast a different person for conner
5. They tried to make this the guy show to counter buffy as the girl show. Both shows damaged themselves in later seasons. Both shows needed to add more opposite gender characters
6. Cast an actual menacing actor foe r Holtz. That midget wasn't scary
7. Needed more stand alone episodes. And humor
8. Gunn needed to be cast as someone who wasn't gay
9. Explore more realms and demonology. Every realm just led back to "hurr during earth is hell or suburbs"
10. Lindsey lilah and Kate needed bigger roles (yes I know Justine was meant to be Kate and Lindsey had a show etc)

>>213392466
I don't think it was ever made clear whether the cancellation was because of him getting fired/metoo'd or if the show was just kinda doomed since day one. I am actually leaning towards the latter because if the show was truly something special and HBO had a hit on their hands, then they would've found a way to prolong it without the original creator's involvement. Big studios are pretty cynical like that, and if you don't believe me, watch how Nickelodeon milked the shit out of Loud House for years even after the creator of the show was completely canceled and blacklisted to the point that the 'created by Chris Savino' caption had to get darkened out in the title sequence.

>>213391121
I'll bite: any good stories that haven't been made public? and who were you - actor, writer, crew person?

Angel! YEAH Motherfucking Angel Best Buffyverse show in the Fucking house right here! That's how we Fucking roll compadres and all my fellow anons and 4chan posters!

YEAH!

YEAH!

FUCK YEAH!

Cats don't be understanding what it was like in the early 00s! Los Angeles and many parts of downtown truly was a hellhole! But it was much deeper than that. Angel was showing that life in the city is a moral and existential battleground. The city is a battlefield for the soul. A fight between isolation and connection.

>>213392015
I don’t think I read that one. I’ll have to check it out.

>>213391121
Wasn't the drama because he had a whole story arc for Cordelia to fight Angel who turns to evil and he had to change everything for her?

>>213391123
she was the oldest of Buffy's high school cast - 27 years old in season one. It didn't really look that bad because she was so hot and could pass for younger, but I think the mom haircut in Angel made her look her age.

>>213390774
I think willow was always an awful character. But then again I'm a guy and couldn't get into her. I would be happy if the black guy is the. Gay guy as well

>>213392897
both willow and xander were terrible but they made the show because together they were all weaker and thats quality tv.

>>213390954
I genuinely can't understand anyone's logic hating what xander did. Anya didn't even listen to his pain she was more worried about getting him down the alte

>>213392635
>Cast an actual menacing actor foe r Holtz. That midget wasn't scary

He had a good voice. But man, what a physical miscast.

>>213392787
The character is played a little older too. Even as-written Cordelia feels older than the Buffy kids once she's on Angel, which is kind of true to life I suppose. It's believable enough maturation but it's definitely noticeable.

>>213385402 (OP)
>David Boreanaz looking like a 30 yo for nearly 30 years
fml

>>213390666
>still trying to shill his “nu-Buffy is gay” fanfic after they already cast her white male love interest
Time to throw in the towel bruv

>>213393185
i havent seen him since bones but he is great at picking a role that fits him

>>213392663
I didn't watch loud house but the live action Luna showed up in my tiktok feed and I got obsessed

>>213391797
Restless was joss saying the show needed to return to its metaphorical roots. Season 4 took demons too literally

I wish she made more appearances.

>>213393325
too sexy, makes gellar look plain. marsters was exactly the right amount of sexy to play opposite boreanaz

>>213393301
season 4's problem is that the whole thing hinged on a very long and convoluted story arc that even calls back events way back to season 1, which I guess is impressive from a writing continuity standpoint, but no ep from season 4 is enjoyable unless you were a longtime consistent viewer with good memory.
Conner was also an annoying turd and s4 was basically the connor season which didnt help

>>213393021
Voice was awesome. But he moved and talked so slow. He slowed the pace way too much. Needed some passion and threat that he could be anywhere anytime

>>213393264
it's hilarious that nickelodeon of all companies put actual effort into the live-action casting of that show. while netflix and many other companies will go out of their way to make the worst live-action casting choices

>>213393325
she had a stint in the Doctor Who audios as a (now retconned) incarnation of Romana, i keep meaning to listen to them

>>213393431
he was too old to seem like a threat to Angel as well, not without some kind of supernatural edge.

>>213393197
Where did all the shills go my brother? They disappeared after that picture was posted. It's tge truth. That is probably the outcome

>>213393442
funny, i listened to a bunch of books spike audiobook'd and he was great at it

>>213393389
Say what you want but Buffy had amazing casting directors for the vampires. Like both David and James were generationally amazing cause they both had the looks and acting to appeal to both girls and boys

>>213393531
i guess they were following the anne rice playbook. sexy ambiguously bisexual vampire bad boys.

>>213393406
The whole Angel training cordy in season 3 was supposed to lead to her story in season 4. That's why Joss got so mad

>>213393465
Yeah I hate admitting that. Age itself doesn't have to be anything. Look at Stephen Lange in avatar. But holtz just never scared me

>>213393502
Dresden Files, right?

I like that the Angel actresses loved getting topless on film. Buffy's cast were some god damned prudes.

>>213393440
I mean the show cast looked weird. The blond wigs on poc looked cheap. Luna just looked like a tomboy dream

>>213393653
yeah but i also tried to get into some other series he narrated and it didn't go so well.

>>213393562
I was too young a lot of the gay undertones completely went over my head and part of me lost respect for Hollywood cause every time as a kid I saw cool male characters who did kinda weird stuff (like aangel kissing spikes forhead) it never occurred to me that was sexual. I just thought "man Hollywood writers are geniuses to come up with these interactions" but now I'm older thr magic is gone cause I know every male fun action is secretly a gay code and it's all very easy to understand

>>213393760
thats just how vampires work. if angel sired spike he'd be biting all up on his neck and shit. if dru sired spike then she was doing some freaky threesome shit with angelus.

>>213393760
i always thought that was meant to be patronizing as he was sort of Spike's 'grandfather' as he sired Dru who sired him.

Angel pre-Fred was kinda bad, after that it was kino.

>>213393967
nah post-doyle was great

>>213393967
S1 was good but they didn't stick to the format they had and started to make it much less dark which i think is where they went wrong. until Fred came along the chemistry just wasn't all there between the cast yet, Wesley was still too much of a weenie too.

>>213393980
just how much drugs was he using to be kicked off a show that soon?!

>>213394053
He literally died right after exiting the show, so it was like all the drugs in the city

>>213391123
Fred was OBVIOUSLY best girl.

>>213391659
I thought Lorne was at least partially killed by his green makeup.

>>213393865
>>213393900

That's what I hate now that I'm older. I hate that it all was about sex. Angel being Spike's sire was so cool to me. Then they ruined it with the creepy mommy fetish stuff of Darla and Dru.

I think sometimes writing can be more kino when you're too ignorant to pick up writers intentions.once you d learn about writers you realize everything is subversive

>>213390952
>S Tier
Fred/Illyria, Faith, Gwen

>A Tier
Buffy, Willow, Anya, Dawn, Lilah

>B Tier
Cordelia, Glory, Darla

>C Tier
Jenny, Drusilla, Harmony, Eve, Kate

>Shit Tier
Tara

>>213385402 (OP)
>4th
I have bad news.

>>213394383
shit taste beyond fred.

>>213385402 (OP)
The show didn't go downhill at the end, it dropped like a fucking rock

> retarded fred love triangle
> then they kill her
> angel's newborn son is kidnapped and taken to another dimension where time moves faster
> he comes back and is suddenly 15 years old
> cordelia starts fucking him for some reason

It was 100% stone cold retardation in that writer's room, anon

>>213394502
5th season was a lot better though

the season with Doctor Who was really weird

>>213394383
Never liked Anya, she was just a worse version of early Cordelia. Awful hairstyles too, the only good one was the straight black hair she had for like 5 episodes in season 4.

i still wonder what that young Giles spinoff might have been like, interesting to think there could have been a British prequel Buffyverse series