>>213419281 (OP)
Go into one and find out. It's not like they ask for id to get in.

actually like what
ive been to one, they suck

no it's a lot of people using it as a giant therapy session with a spiritual overtone

No. That’s why it wasn’t AA. AA operates its groups with autonomy and local leadership that rotates specifically to prevent people like that. Or if you get a group that’s a little wacky just find another one or go online. Thank you for letting me share.

>>213419452
Keep coming back

>>213419351
Can you just go to meet women, friends, etc?
Like I can pretend I always get drunk if it helps with meeting girls

>>213419452
how do i quit drinking?

>>213419452
what about the group in Atlanta that makes you live in a motel 6 with other alkies while you detox and then forces you to go recruit “pigeons” after 30 days of sobriety?

>>213419507
>he doesn't know about the 13th step

>>213419507
It's a bad idea to fuck women you meet in recovery even if you're faking

>>213419452
>group that’s a little wacky just find another one
I had to go to a few court order meetings and this is the truth. I tried to knock them all out as fast as possible but the "good" group only met one day a week.

>>213419548
Part of the problem is that a lot of people attending AA are there because it's court ordered, not because they actually want to clean up

>>213419519
What?

>>213419605
You can argue it in court. It's a religious organization. And since you cannot, by law, be forced to practice a faith by the state you can request a different detox or rehab. It doesn't need to be AA.

>>213419669
its literally not you fucking asshat retard. Go fuck yourself, we are not a religious group

>>213419669
I'm going to try that. I've got another DUI trial next month.

>>213419752
You literally have to submit to a higher power.

>>213419811
OF YOUR CHOOSING….GOD CAN MEAN LITERALLY ANYTHING

CAN YOU FUCKING READ????

>>213419544
Terrible advice if you're desperate to score or find a mate. Nowhere should be off limits

>>213419281 (OP)
Is this zoolander or Happy Gilmore?

>>213419752
Yeah they are. I just checked again and saw court cases regarding it. And it says you CANNOT be compelled to attend AA by a court. It has to be optional. A court cannot mandate you attend a cult as part of an addiction rehabilitation.

>>213419669
It doesn't need to be but it is the most prevalent. If someone just lost their license for a DUI they need a program within walking distance. AA has meetings everywhere.

>>213419838
Rehab is up to the judge's discretion though, they could just send you to jail instead.

>>213419981
Thats literally ridiculous…what about people who need to medically withdraw??

>>213419508
Why do YOU drink?

>>213420035
You better hope the jail you're going to has a program

>>213419481
It works if you work it.

DS9 is all over the place wtf?!?!

>>213419508
You just stop. You can use spiritual dogma to get there if you want but at the end of the day, quitting is on you.

>>213420035
I'm sure the jail doctor can make do. If you made a good faith argument that you're not going to go to aa but will go to somewhere else I'm sure they wouldn't have any issue with it but if you're just like "actually you're not allowed to force me" then it's probably not going to work out well for you, aa is the carrot.

>>213419351
Are there any groups in America like AA but without the religious aspect?

>>213419981
>follow my cult or go to le jail
That judge can suck on my balls and enjoy the future lawsuit right up his ass for using coercion to push me into a religious cult. I'd never be addicted to shit to start with. But if I was I know I'd damn sure not be going to the cult that is AA for help. And any judge trying to coerce me into that is gonna get fucked right up his ass since I'll pursue it out of principle.

>>213420119
>just stop
How?

>>213420057
A fifth of vodka chased with pickle juice.

>>213420119
this guy white-knuckles sobriety…AKA, he’s miserable

>>213419508
Find your rock bottom. It’s when you stop digging. Practically speaking you get sick of it and find your snap out of it moment. No guarentee you won’t ruin your life first. So enjoy the ride

>>213420138
why not how

>>213420165
I'm druk now

>>213420135
You know how you put alcohol into some sort of glass and drink it? You don't do that. Just don't drink alcohol or buy it.

IT'S SO FUCKING BORING BEING SOBER AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
i want sake

>>213420154
Enjoy my bleeding anus in your face

>>213420154
FACTS

>>213419519
That sounds like a “rehab” center. A lot of those places can be sketchy as fuck and prey on desperate families and bill insurance companies for a few months of vacation rehabilitation. As cult and gay ss AA can be, they do it mostly for free.

>>213419508
I switched to light beer only for a bit. Then when I gave into something I used to drink, I got so much fucking sicker the next day. Then I was able to make it a couple days with nothing. Drank a six pack of bud lights and was really sick the entire next day. Then I wasn't craving anything and the thought of feeling drunk didn't feel appealing.

>>213420197
why?

>>213419508
don't, just make sure you always have enough booze

>>213420199
You know how you put penises into your mouth and drink cum? You don't do that. Just don't suck dick or swallow.

>>213419752
https://youtu.be/pzVbRmrc9-Q?feature=shared

>>213419669
> you cannot, by law, be forced to practice a faith by the state you can request a different detox or rehab. It doesn't need to be AA.

So the judge will just find another way to punish you.

>>213420127
That's an absolutely stunning legal argument. But no judge forces anyone to go to AA. You can find a different therapy or go to jail. Courts recognize AA and it's everywhere. It's usually the easiest option for a defendant but it's never mandated that someone must go to AA by a judge.

>>213420297
>REEEEEEEE U SAID NO TO MY LE CULT SO U R LE PUNISHED
And he can enjoy my civil rights lawsuit blowing his ass right out of the court for that.

>>213419838
Enjoy your SMART recovery zoom meetings. Good luck with humility

>DS9 is so good that everyone is talking about alcoholism

>>213420346
I'm not a weak willed sniveling weasel of a cuckold like you though. So I'm not in recovery and unlikely to ever be. I can actually have a drink without making a fool of myself and running over pedestrians or getting into bar fights and being such a sloppy, disgusting nigger that a court has to tell me to get my act together.

>>213420384
kek, i remember when we all thought this way about our disease at one point too…ah to be this naïve and arrogant again

it’ll catch up to you eventually

>>213420217
> Enjoy my bleeding anus in your face
The black tar poo might be blood

>>213420423
>this dude is such a drunken mess he finds it impossible that a person can drink moderately without ruining his entire life
That bad, huh? Projecting like an iMax.

>>213420384
Good to know yoy are not an alcoholic because your definition is different from eveyone elses

>>213420339
I’m sure you’ll make bank off your next DWI

>>213420452
It is bright red

>>213420508

>>213420197
based, fuck these soberfags
t. soberfag

>>213420521
>Nu-BevisButt

I've been sober all year frens!

Im an attorney for people who get hit by drunk drivers.

Nothing puts a bigger smile on my face than watching some sloppy alkie get sentenced to the death penalty or life behind bars for t-boning an innocent family of 5 and they arent even lucid enough to remember what they did

It's a bunch of barely functional people trying to one-up each other with war stories about how degenerate they used to be/are.

>>213420587
Nice work anon!

>>213420666
stop bei g an ai nigver

>>213420587
Nice
>>213420666
That's what I got out of it.

>>213420666
sounds fucking awful

>>213420607
>i get really happy when i destroy someones life for a big paycheck
“People” like you deserve to have a millstone wrapped around your neck and dropped into the ocean

>>213420607
I drive drunk every day

>https://youtu.be/7uruY3NQs4I
Anyone else experience this game?

>>213420607
>Im an attorney

>>213420788
I hope you don't.

>>213420281
If you need to be a christcuck to stay sober, that's fine. Being bitter that people learn how to be that way without needing AA just shows that you'll always be a sheep.

>>213420992
Explain what you learned

>>213420904
it's fine I just do it coming home from work and my car knows the way

>>213420666

>>213420788
you can be the best DD in the world, your still at the mercy of the road around you. You still might get rear ended or blow a tire or any other situation where you might find yourself talking to a cop.

>>213421022
I learned that you're a bitch.

>>213421031
I'll just kill myself if that happens

>>213421054
>I learned that you're a bitch.
Said the sober person

>>213420587
have a drink to celebrate!

i really need to quit drinking but i don't want to be one of these sober faggots whose main hobby is going to meetings and not drinking. i got out of the hospital a month ago and being sober was nice for about... a month. and then you remember that life sucks, your job sucks, you're broke, it's hot as fuck outside, media is all garbage, people are garbage, just waiting in traffic makes you want to blow your brains out... and then you go back to your old friend and everything's not so bad anymore.

>>213421269
I go to a meeting a few times a year tops. Its very helpful at first and if youre struggling and feel a serious compulsion to go back to drinking.

>>213421269
This is when normal people would go out rioting. Only a weak cuck sees himself being beaten down and just drinks to cope with it. You should be mad and indignant living like this. Our society is in fucking shambles and decaying.

>>213421316
>>213421338
Go to bed. It is okay.

>>213419811
>a higher power.
That doesn't have to be God. That could mean the power within yourself to make your own choices. The power of the person you want to be.

>>213419508

Just stop drinking. Literally never let a drop of alcohol touch your lips. Its not hard, lol, lmao.

>t. Sober 7 months

>>213419811
>You literally have to submit to a higher power.
Eveyone has to

>>213421504
how?

>>213421545

Have you ever tried quitting before? Do you get withdrawals? I used weed and nicotine to stop drinking. It helped with cravings and anxiety

>>213421595
Cool, but how?

i miss the good old days when i could just stop drinking on a dime. now it's a medical emergency.

Based as fuck VOY episode!

Some one explain the Lords of the Ring Blood Pressure ring advert

13.5 months sober, i've been to maybe 5 meetings the entire time. I find them largely useless for actually staying sober, I go to pick up my milestone chips (6months, 1 year).
I only got sober after relapsing, and I got sober because one day I woke up and I simply had had enough.
The only way (so far) I think you can maintain sobriety is having something change on a fundamental level in your head. Enough is enough sort of thing. Wish i had a better answer, but you either reach that point and quit, or you don't. I hope you all reach that point. My continued self-reflection will hopefully give me a better way to explain this.

>>213420607
Drunk drivers don't get the death penalty

>>213421906
They should

AA threads are the worst on 4chan. It's not for everyone but I can say is that it's the only thing that keeps me from drinking and I would recommend it to anyone who can't stop.

>it's a religious program!
I know atheists that have successfully worked the stops and stayed sober

>its a le cult!
Cults generally force you to stay; nigga I wish some of those drunks would just leave already.

>>213421997
I just genuinely don’t get what you or anyone gets out of it personally. Everyone just takes their turn complaining or droning on about their boring day, maybe someone reads a passage from the aa book like you are in church, then everyone somberly shuffles home. It’s literally the most depressing thing I’ve ever done and that includes jail. I’m not saying don’t do it, I just genuinely don’t get it. And I’ve been many times over many years for many reasons, it’s always been that way.

>>213421816
i've "had enough" on multiple occasions.
the only way to stay sober is to make significant changes in the way you live your life. your behavior is fucked. your coping mechanisms are fucked. your dopamine receptors are fried. and i say this just for 4chan people, a lot of recovery shit is targeted at normies, not terminally online, terminally alone incels who have nothing beyond the glow of their computer screen and their addictions. a lot of people in recovery are trying to find their way back, trying to get a grasp back on a functioning life. people with real jobs and spouses and children etc... of course there are also complete and total fuck ups who need it just to get their life started. sobriety is the end game for both of these types, but if you're here, you can't just just stop drinking and return to browsing 4chan 12 hours a day, watching porn and anime, gaming, etc..

>>213421617
Find other things to do instead of drinking. You drink because you crave stimulation and/or are unable to emotionally self regulate. Video games helped me a ton when I first quit. 8 months now. Of course you also have to make your life one that you enjoy without drinking otherwise you'll go back to it.

Step 1. Stop drinking
Step 2. Unfuck your life

>>213422211
It really depends on the meeting and location. When I lived in a college town there were a ton of off the wall ones like candle light meetings in the basements and things like that. Then everyone would go out to pizza afterward. I moved back home and all the meetings here are just depressed old guys kind of like how you describe. I kept searching and eventually found a meeting with people around my age the town over. It really comes down to location.

>>213420123
Smart Recovery or Recovery Dharma

>>213422301
This is 100% correct. I was one of those guys, fucked up my life after a bad divorce and just wanted to stay in my room loaded on booze browsing 4chan and watching youtube videos all day. I probably would've kept going but a combination of running out of money and significant health issues from drinking constantly forced me to stop. I had to get a job and try and re-integrate myself back into society. Not because I needed to, but because I had to break the cycle I was stuck in. I live in a sober living home now.

>>213422878
>I live in a sober living home now.
Are you required to attend meetings?

>>213422926
Yes I have to attend 3 meetings a week. But most are only a 5 minute drive or 10 minute walk from the house, so it's fairly easy. Other then that, the rules are simple, don't drink, clean up after yourself. The rent is reasonable compared to the area and it's allowing me a place of stability to get my life back together, without being stuck in a rehab with no freedom

alcoholism is literally a made up problem, if you want to have a drink have a drink

>>213423007
That's cool anon, I lived in a sober community for a few months and it helped me a lot.

>>213423030
Ok, I'll have a drink.
>wakes up a week later in a hotel room covered in vomit surrounded by empty bottles you don't remember buying.

>>213423062
That literally happened to me last time I relapsed. Woke up in a hotel in the middle of california. I guess I was trying to drive to LA. I had no memory of driving. Insane I didn't get a dui

>>213419835
Happy Gilmore 2.

Did NOT read thread.
Makers bottle in left hand.
I WILL finish it.
Listening to https://youtu.be/_WcWHZc8s2I?si=2jsXhJGOuH4AO7N0

>>213423142
De Sade?

>>213423062
I don't think of alcoholism as a "disease" but there is absolutely a change in brain chemistry that occurs in chronic alcoholics. Once you've gone down that road, one drink immediately flips the switch into full retard mode again

>>213420607
If you watched people being sentenced you would have said you were a DA or prosecutor. Claiming to be an attorney for victims means you're talking about civil cases.

>>213420720
It is lol

>>213419544
That's why I fuck women outside the program.
Women will try to shine some sexual light your way as bait so they can complain to every other female in the program that..
>guys are always after me and yeah that guy..see anon over there...he rubbed his peepee on my shoulder when he walked by to get a cup of coffee last month
They just want a hostage in real life or just in their fucked up imagination and will literally blame you if they go back out to drink or do drugs, even if you never approached them or had anything to do with them.
This one whore stormed into a meeting place and accused my sponsor( rip jc) of molesting her teen son in front of everyone for five minutes.
He tried to tell her to slow down and say whatever calmly he doesn't understand who she's talking about.
Her teen son came in and got her and said ' mom this isn't the guy' .
She just stormed out and never apologized.
My sponsor just said she was a sick woman and he can only pray for her to regain her sanity and fix her life.
So yeah. I get all I need or want, but not in my circles.
Aa works. Sober 8-1-99

>>213423007
Oxford, huh?

>>213421269
True addicts need to be addicted to something. Most that become sober make that thing sobriety. Your other options is choosing some hobby like fitness and completely throwing yourself into it

>>213422878
Oxford House was the only thing that got me to quit for a significant period of time. Then my old dad got sick and I had to move in with him and started drinking again in a matter of weeks

>>213420123
Yeah it's called "AA".
Religion is not a requirement.
Particular sect, faith or denomination is absolutely verboten to speak of or promote during the meeting.
Before the meeting or after the meeting you can talk your shit about whatever gets your cunt flowing.
Some people just have a messed up interpretation of what to them qualifies as *god*.
You might find out that God or a spiritual life is not so dependent on a particular religious notion you may have formed before getting to aa.
Some gave up on god altogether.
Who could blame them? With all the chaos in your head what kind of God rules in that sewer.
So really you don't have to worry about the religious trap.
Aa is not for saving souls, it's not against saving souls. really aa has no opinion on the subject.
We primarily care about helping the alcoholic get better. The rest is up to you.

>>213423062
lmao, exactly
one is not an option, one drink is thirty drinks

you can pick a tree to be your higher power if you want. You can literally just go to an AA meeting if you're curious, and it's super easy to find a free copy of the book(s) online https://www.aa.org/
I went with one of the old pagan gods, but I know an atheist who jokes about his being the flying spaghetti monster, and a native american who says his religion is stealing horses

>>213420127
Ok rummy

>>213420339
Also, you lost, tranny.
I'll send you some rope.
You know what to do.

>>213424006
>a native american who says his religion is stealing horses
based

>>213423030
It's more damaging to every aspect of life, and your body, than most every other substance, and that takes into account that you can buy it legally.

>>213421085
This post made me laugh

>>213423194
plus he can't write properly, which is a fundamental skill for lawyers.

>>213421816
Oh wow you're doing so well! You should write a book.
You must be the smartest motherfucker in the world! You outsmarted sober people and something that saved their lives!
>clapping, the whole world starts clapping and chanting your name

>>213419508
>>213421617
the trick is getting a job and being busy.

>>213423586
or work, although workaholism isn't great for your mental health either

>>213424174
Shut up idiot, AA doesn't work for lots of people. I had to do the same thing that anon did. Ten years of AA didn't do shit for me.

>>213420607
no u are not and this never happened

>>213424246
Hahaha it sucks to suck

>>213424302
Doesn't even make sense

>>213419752
>>213419823

Imagine being this defensive and angry over something you claim isn’t true lmao. The twelfth tradition was tailor made for raging assholes like you.

Call your sponsor.

>>213420346
You say this as if people that do this can’t stay sober. How many smart recovery meetings have you attended to base this belief on?

AA doesn't claim to be the only way to get sober. If something else works for you, I'm happy for you, and if the other anon raging had recovered from alcoholism they probably would be too. It works for me, but if you find something works for you I'm just happy you're not struggling with the booze anyore

>>213424302
Nice twelfth step.

Literally just don't drink lmao
The only thing more annoying than an addict is a "recovering addict" who never shuts the fuck up about it
Boohoo nigger, if you've got a brain in your head you can stop

>>213419752
You got the shakes again, tough guy?

>>213420292
That is a lot of words to say REPENT SINNER

>>213424511
>AA doesn't claim to be the only way to get sober
I literally stopped reading there. There are posts in this thread claiming this. I was in seven years and that’s all I ever heard. I left and my life continues on the spiritual journey I started, yet members treat me like a relapsing charity case when I run into them. All I ever heard was how my disease was doing pushups in the parking lot and you can’t graduate from the program.

I stopped listening to all the gaslighting and just left because it was stunting my spiritual growth. I realized why the hell should I care what a room full of self proclaimed drunks think of me when my family loves the person I am today and I’m a blessing to them instead of a curse?

It’s a cult. It’s a cult that obviously works wonderfully for some people, but a cult nonetheless.

>>213424181
yep. I drank infrequently when I was working fulltime/overtime. I couldn't do my job hungover or drunk, so I wouldn't drink, except the occasional weekend.

>>213423347
Shut up moron

>>213424434
>Imagine being this defensive and angry over something you claim isn’t true lmao. The twelfth tradition was tailor made for raging assholes like you.

>Call your sponsor.

Nta, but you really want his totally real sponsor to have to put up with his b.s.?

>>213424540
>"recovering addict" who never shuts the fuck up about it
my older brother for months after he got sober. he's relapsed about 10 times lmao

>>213424799
You both sound like wonderful people from a highly functional home.

>>213424690
Good for you.
There are ALOT of people in aa who are not alcoholic.
They weren't alcoholic to start with and for whatever reason got bum rushed into aa meetings by probation, courts, treatment centers, etc.
They may or may not have had a problem with their drinking. They might have been a problem drinker, but never crossed over into being an alcoholic.
They have no business being in aa meetings. Period.
If you can moderate your drinking and get better, my hats off to you.
For people with real alcoholism, aa is the last stop on the road to final oblivion.

>>213424799
He's doing the research.
He'll find out if he's an alcoholic or not.
We all seem to do this thing.

>>213424777
You know the rules.
Show your tits or get out

>>213424926
>There are ALOT of people in aa who are not alcoholic.
>They have no business being in aa meetings. Period.
Says who? I know a few non-drinkers who go to gain perspective.

>>213419396
When I got out of rehab and moved into a sober living place I had to attend AA 4 times a week as a requirement. It's really not a religious organization, but some people act like it is. They treat the Big Book as a Bible and Bill W. as a Messiah, and that you have to adhere to the 12 step traditions in order to stop drinking. Complete zealots who are retired and have nothing else to do anymore. I stopped going because some of the old timers would talk shit behind other old timers backs and they would blow up during the meeting when it was their turn to speak. A bunch of 65+ year old men acting like bitches. I stopped going when I seen a geriatric boxing match in the parking lot kek. Thanks for reading my blog.

The Big Book is a pretty good read, especially the personal stories in the back.

>>213425151
>It's really not a religious organization, but some people act like it is
I mean the word God is in four of the twelve steps

>>213425240
>God as we understood Him
God could be whatever you want it to be. I remember hearing One lady's God was an 8 inch purple dildo.

>>213425506
>>213425240
Reminder that "as we understand him" are the only lines underlined in the steps for a reasons. Just pick the door knob and keep coming back.

>>213420086
and if you don't work it, fuck it have a shot and a beer

>>213420587
you're supposed to post this on January 1st

>not a single post about the movie
every single poster in this thread is an alcoholic

>>213426812
al/ck/ has been on /tv/ for years.

>>213426812
Can you read?? What was OP's question?

>>213425151
>Bill Wilson
Mr Secretary! I'm DWI.

>>213419508
Creativity, Friends, Work, Exersize, Gardening, Pets, Doctor Assisted Detox if nessicary with pills

B4 the thread gets culled

Alcoholism and addiction particularly to Opiates are serious issues in our World and Country and 3 million ppl die world wide due to alcoholism. It's a underrated scurge and we need to be compassionate to the people who are honestly trying and be compassionate with a big stick to those that put others in danger with their high/drunk actions

Most of all most of these people are hurt deeply by something that happened to them and they aka me learned to cope by drinking. This society needs more addiction treatment centers and especially non-12 step programs because that doesn't work for everyone and serious alcoholism you usually need low dose benzos or your gonna be irritable as fuck or get DT's. I found AA mostly unhelpful because they convince you its a disease and a will power problem and I think thats wrong.

It's a mental and physical disorder that should be treated medically and with compassion and I feel like a lot of AA meetings come with unsaid judgement about how you have to do things their way of the highway or else "you were never really an alcoholic in the first place" it's just sk condescending and the program has morphed into religious propaganda. You all know the Big Book was written when fucking Lobotomys were being preformed? And I believe the OG Guy Bill or w/e his name is that wrote most of the thing got blacklisted from most AA stuff cus he wanted to add medical Assisted withdrawl and the AA nazis would take let him add that to the later versions

AA is a cult now and it can help some people but I found it contributed to my relapses. Goodluck anons

>>213419443
Learned about it through South Park, huh?

>>213425151
Same. I think the meetings with mostly younger people are probably more tolerable. My local AA meeting was full of old boomers who had been sober 20 years and acted like if you didnt do things their way you were wrong. It really demoralized me. Works for others I guess..

>>213428109
>AA is a cult now and it can help some people but I found it contributed to my relapses
True, I felt like I was always having to lie about my beliefs to them. If you don't believe in God already, you're gonna have a tough time in AA, because they DO, no matter what they tell you, and for most of them that's the magic switch that makes it all work. The more of the literature you read, the more obvious that becomes.

>>213428129
>no it's a lot of people using it as a giant therapy session with a spiritual overtone
he's not wrong

>>213420788
Same. I haven't drove sober in at least 5 years and I drive heavy machinery as a job. 3 beers minimum before starting then driving all day usually 12 -18 beers at 6% abv. Some of us can do it

I want to find a group that makes straight-edge people drink like a bizarro AA

>>213428706
Those are called teenagers

>>213428726
No you should have to go to a church after hours and meet a group and there's wine and beer and whiskey and you have to submit to a higher power while taking shots and a chilled Reisling followed by a beer (not your pussy light beer) then hook up with another group member and you have to report on how many days you've been drunk. You could even get a coin for drinking 50, 100 or 200 days in a row

>>213428793
That’s college.

>>213428688
>3 beers minimum before starting then driving all day usually 12 -18 beers at 6% abv
kind of based
t. sober

>>213428793
>>213429506
yeah that sounds like college or a frat

>>213428109
>It's a mental and physical disorder that should be treated medically and with compassion
I think AA kinda fills a role that doctors can't. For one thing, as you say, a lot of addiction is a mental disorder from trauma or something, and doctors don't have time for that. Every doctor I know is pushing through 30+ patients a day that's just the nature of the business.

AA has really helped my sister but she needs people to talk to regularly and it provides that. She can be dramatic and air whatever is on her mind to people on her team so to speak. It's also a religion for people who have no religion, and as a society that is increasingly secular there is something to that.

At the same time, I heat you on the cult aspects and for that reason it never worked for me. I just had to do it on my own, but my nature is more solitary anyways. I'm not motivated by sitting around with a bunch of other losers yapping about my problems, that doesn't motivated me. But for a lot of people it is the best we have now.

>>213429845
>go to AA once or twice a year
>old timers telling the same jokes
>cranky and arrogant court order guy
>a couple of shakey guys
>random homelesser
>retiree with nothing better to do
>guy who’s way into god and preaching


It’s aversion therapy. Anyways 5 years

I went to one AA meeting and then got sent to the psych ward the next morning. I read most of the big book that night and I couldn't identify with most of the stories in there. I think it's worth attending for some people but I didn't want to hear old war stories from the people attending, it would have made me continue drinking. My problems were mental, not addiction.
>>213428109
It sounds similar to your experience. The guys at AA told me to go to NA.

>>213419281 (OP)
I tried AA on several occasions and all I got out of it were a bunch of boomers who got sober in their fucking 50s or 60s when magically they realized that they were going to die sooner than later if they kept this up. I always found it funny how a lot of stories went something like:
>yeah so I drank like a fish and found great success and now that I've gotten everything I wanted in my boomer hosrd coincidentally I don't need to drink!
That or some train wreck of a person telling you the most fucked up, nightmare stories that prove that if there is a God, he deliberately chooses people to fuck with. That or genetics are literally all that matter.

It's a hugbox to share how great the program is and listen to normies fumble their way through trying to explain spiritual concepts. The Daily Reflections you can read are 25% actual good info and 75% shit that's utterly useless and falls apart faster than most religions the second you question it. My favorite was reading a reflection that boiled down to "pls give AA ur mahniez!" Add in the fact that most of the people there are cunts and it becomes very gay, very quick. Nothing more cringe than watching a bunch of boomers/Gen X make butcher passive aggressive comments towards each other disguised as banter. How someone shares their story and you get guys deliberately coughing as if to say, "Hurry up, asshole." If you use basic logic abd begin to point out how things don't make sense in the program you get several guys trying to spin what you said.
>y-you said x but you clearly meant y!
And they do gossip like the divorced, blue collar cucks they are. More evidence to never EVER tell normies shit.

Give it a try but go in with low expectations. It might be worth it when the boomers and most of Gen X is dead.

>>213419508
shrooms

>>213419281 (OP)
if you want to see one, watch Bubbles in The Wire.

>>213419508
change your situation. I was drinking and taking drugs the entire time I was in the military. quit the day after I got out.

>>213419508
Stop buying it, it's really that easy.

Do you need to taper off if you only drink at nighttime? Maybe 6 beers and some whiskey every night. Asking for a friend.

>>213430314
It comes down to the person and their biology. How long have you been doing that? 6 months? 6 years? 20 years? likely you will need to taper and find some other methods to help with sleep. thats not like a HUGE HUGE ammount but daily thats a fairly large ammount.

>>213430822
Like 5 years I’d say. Picked up a lot the last two.

>>213419281 (OP)
I don't know what this is, but what they're really like is the saddest fucking thing you'll ever witness. Go to one. Just sit in one. You don't have to talk. You can sit there and listen. Find out. You should know.

>>213430158
Much obliged

>>213430905
Getting the shakes is leveling up your hangovers. As another anon said there does feel like a point of no return where you hit certain milestones that become permanent behavior.

>>213430077
>More evidence to never EVER tell normies shit.
I've had another lesson in this recently. I fucking hate normoids.

>>213430314
So around 8-9 drinks a night? Tapering a little would help. I've gotten withdrawal before from 12 drinks a day, not horrible with seizures and all that, but 8-9 drinks seems like enough you could benefit from tapering.

>>213431536
It’ll make the anxiety a lot easier, a good litmus test to see if you can have one or two and stop for the night. If you feel compelled to keep drinking because fuck it you’re venturing deeper into problems because
>I can quit anytime I want!
Is a huge red flag if you can’t, even for a night or a week.

>>213431482
What happened, fren?

>>213419508
Drink more until you hit your bottom and can't take any more. It's the only way. If you can't just quit then you aren't ready and no amount of wishing will help you.

>>213430314
Yes, it's a waste of time, money, and energy. Same thing with masturbation

>>213419508
Start smoking weed. I've used weed to quit heroin, meth, and booze. It's called "marijuana maintenance", and it'll get you through early sobriety without becoming another crippling addiction. Even if you are one of the 9% who becomes addicted to weed, it's like night and day in terms of being destructive to your body and life compared to whatever you're trying to kick.
If you're a true blackout drunkard alcohol should terrify you. I've come to in jail, in the ER, in puddles of puke, with shit in my pants, you name it. I don't want to wake up and find out I killed someone drunk driving in a blackout. I don't want to burn my house down smoking in bed. ANYTHING can happen in a blackout. People go to prison over shit they don't recall doing all the time.
If you can get that fear into you like I have, you can stay away from the bottle. But I was a severe case. You may not be so bad off with your habit.

>>213419605
At least it exposes people to it. It might help them. They see what others have and they want it for themselves.

>>213419669
Any alternative won't be as good. Even if you don't want to quit drinking it's a place to hear interesting stories, drink free coffee and have pastries or candy or something, smoke with people, chill out for an hour.
It's usually in lieu of jail time and the judge doesn't have to offer you anything. If you went to the judge arguing that it's against your religion or something he's just going to put you in jail. lol
The whole "higher power" thing can be anything; an inanimate object. I knew a lady whose higher power was a big local tree.
Modern AA is pretty malleable and open to interpretation.

>>213420123
"We agnostics"

AA has it covered. You don't have to be religious.

>>213431900
>ANYTHING can happen in a blackout. People go to prison over shit they don't recall doing all the time.
Yep. The only time I went to group therapy, the counselor said he'd done three years in prison for felony DUI with injury. Scary shit.

it really blows my mind how guys are able to keep jobs while being an alcoholic. could not be me, ever. if i drink hard i just call in sick the next day and if i get fired, i get fired.

>>213420127
No lawyer is going to help you sue a JUDGE. lol, they have to work with the judges and you have no case.
You're a fucking retard. Just go to the meetings. You can even just use intherooms.com if you're lazy or antisocial.

>>213431900
based, good testimony too anon ty

>>213419281 (OP)
There's a lot of alchy's on this board but most of them refuse to surrender and try a better way of living

>>213420339
>le

You fucking faggot.

>>213432011
>The whole "higher power" thing can be anything
My higher power is kino. It transcends space and time. Eternal, infinite, universal, without judgment.

>>213419508
Xanax

>>213419519
Let go of the resentment. Who got you in that? (It was you)

>>213420760
>destroy someone's life

Nice bait. He's putting murderers behind bars.

>>213419838
>he trusts legal research from chatGPT

Good work, counselor. You've done it.

But really I'm an attorney and i can tell you what you posted is meaningless. Also AA is not a religious organization. The court will give you a choice - serve your full sentence or do a diversionary program that requires some sort of substance abuse program.

>>213432182
technically that's manslaughter

>>213420384
You literally have a DUI case lmao... I've heard so many people who sound just like you at rehabs and shit. Fucking classic.

>>213420127
You have the funds to litigate this? Its not even controversial, courts do this all the time. You choose to do the alternative or you serve the full sentence. What rights do you think are violated?

>>213431900
I’ll add that once you’re at that point, even if you have a history of clean mental health, you’re going to start acting a lot differently even when you are sober. For me it was mood swings, a lot more confrontational, and incredibly narcissistic. Just more things that will compound your risk factor for a serious fuck up moment.

>>213422301
This. No wonder these people have such a distaste for AA. The social aspect must also make them hesitant.

>>213420339
If you know so much law why aren't you the judge?

>>213420607
>tfw could have been me

Thank God I got sober. Ironically enough it was going in to law that got me sober. I started a monitoring contract in law school and got sober three years ago. To be admitted the bar wanted another three years so I'll 6 years without booze by the time I'm off contract. Definitely not going back to drinking.

>>213432258
It's vehicular homicide

>>213432270
Too bad these courtfags can’t get credit for these threads because they can be better than some meetings

>>213422878
I lived in one of those places to get my life back together. I didn't like having to quit smoking weed but it was a good structure and routine for me. You had to be up by 9:00 for a house meeting but they started serving breakfast at 7:00. I would volunteer to cook stuff but there's always cereal and fruit and coffee and pastries.
The one I was at had like dorm rooms though where it was two guys to a small room and bathrooms at the end of the floor. That part sucked for me because I was one of the few guys there who hasn't done time. It was a bit out of my comfort zone but I got used to everything within days and learned to live that way for a few months. It allowed me to save money and be able to start over. If I ever get into trouble with drugs or alcohol again I won't hesitate to check into one of those places again. You make friends with people and it can be pretty good. But there are also scummy dirtbag people too; a lot of them. They try to borrow money and bum cigarettes and break rules. Those places attract those types unfortunately, but they're usually on pretty good behavior. Just be respectful and don't talk down to them because they're dumb. These are the types of people who snap and break your jaw over "disrespect".

>>213422211
Nahh that's perspective. Meetings can be super uplifting. Yes sometimes you get stuck hearing someone gripe but if that's all you hear ever, you need to find a better meeting

>>213423062
Anthony Hopkins did a speaker meeting and was telling a story.
Woman offers him a tequila and he says "no thank you, I have to work next week."
She said "I don't understand."
He said "Neither do I."

Totally true. I have 8 years and I'm going to be one of those old guys with 30 years sober.

>>213423090
One time I woke up in the middle of pissing behind a ghetto grocery store at dawn, swaying and holding on to the driver's door of my car 50 miles from home. I was still hammered but was much more "aware" on the drive back home.
That kind of shit happened all the time.
And reading other stories like that and remembering my own help to keep me sober.

>>213424174
What is this? You're upset that not everyone needs it? I like going to meetings but I never got a sponsor or did the steps and I've been sober a decade.

>>213424690
You went to a weird, atypical group. I've never been to meetings where I was pressured to show up all the time or bullied into doing more. Those "cult" AA groups are just urban legend. You may meet one or two random pushy people there who preach that after the meetings, but there are no such tenets within the actual organization. If you're being honest those members were outlier nutjobs for treating you like that at meetings. But if you mean just on the street, you can't blame the program for there being extremists in it.

I went to my local group for a month. I would say most people treat it as a therapy session. And the whole point of it is to brainwash yourself into not drinking again. It's absolutely a cult. But it works for some. Personally, I've come to accept that life is a boring sludge that I'll have to endure where "OK" is as good as it's going to get. I'm 6 months sober

>>213432747
Lmao its most AA groups. Most AA groups are run by fantastical religious nutjobs and if you dont follow the 12 steps then your fucked in their eyes.

>>213432763
the modern working and living cost culture is absolutely not natural, no matter what anyone says. if humanity ever improves, we are going to look back at the 9-5, 5 days a week, incredibly expensive rent and groceries, and immigrants waiting to stab us to death, as being barbaric. mark my words.

>>213432059
Remember that guy who ran the meetings in Breaking Bad? He ran crushed his daughter driving to the liquor store high on coke.
That's the kind of shit that keeps me sober. I know it's a fictional account but I've heard dozens just as bad over the years.

>>213432296
This fucking AA argument is on the level of Sovereign Citizens. It won't work. The judge would just laugh and say, "Okay, most people don't choose jail but suit yourself!"

>>213431900
>I've come to in jail, in the ER, in puddles of puke, with shit in my pants, you name it.
Kek, even this didn't make me want to quit. I always felt awesome after waking up at the ER or in jail. Can't explain it. It was like I was walking in clouds (down to the closest dive). Then I suddenly stopped one day. Don't know why.

>>213419507
They still won’t want anything to do with you rakesh.

>>213432834
>immigrants waiting to stab us to death
What fucking 3rd world shithole do you live in? Because I know you don't live in the United States with that bullshit.

>>213433017
I tried it, judge told be about SMART. Those meetings were too far for me and not as often. I went with AA for the connivence. Drank more than ever when I was done with all that.

>>213432126
higher pepe.

>>213433131
Yeah, there's always SMART if you live in a major city. You're not getting out of going to meetings of some sort.
Glad you're able to drink without messing up your life now. I no longer can.

>>213433173
My "higher" power is just getting fucking high. I roll into AA and NA meetings blazed off my ass. All you need is a desire not to use. And that I have. I just still desire to use weed and that's okay.
I don't advertise that at NA of course.

>>213433081
This fuggin guy

>>213433358
Weed is the herbal jew, you should give that up too.

>>213433317
Oh I already messed it up where I'm totally screwed....it's just going to involve the law anymore.

>>213433423
I'm not a bigot so I don't know what that means, but weed has been great for me so I guess you mean jews are great. Bowl up.

>>213433358
Pot is the gayest drug there is.

>>213433358
You don't have the desire to quit smoking so you don't belong at NA meetings.

>>213432747
It wasn’t one group. It was in a metro area with literally hundreds of meetings a week.
>urban legend
I literally experienced it. You’re a cult member so you see it from the inside and you’re attempting to gaslight me even realizing it. I challenge you to find anywhere in the literature where they say AA isn’t the only way and encourage you to find your own path. Im just look at the response to my post from the poster below. I can’t be a “real” alcoholic if I can stay sober outside of AA.
>>213424926
>you aren’t a real alcoholic then
Your passive aggression is pretty typical. I was in AA for seven years. I’ve been out for six. I don’t moderate my drinking because I just do t drink.

You can continue down this path and watch AA die or you can adapt. You know what happens to the Oxford group, right?

>>213433131
>>213433317
They gave shit tons of SMART meetings on zoom.

>>213433607
>that pic
Too true

>>213433607
I disagree. It saved my life. I'd be drunk or dead without it.

>>213433616
I have the desire to stay off of hard drugs. My H.A. meetings have no problem that I use cannabis and suboxone. It's none of their business either.

>>213433358
>>213433528
This is you.

>>213433623
>“Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.”

Theres a few in every crowd that make this their new addiction.

>>213433623
Just because I'm defending it doesn't mean I'm in it. I never did the steps or got a sponsor. I don't need meetings to stay sober. My experiences with all anonymous groups over 20 years have been pretty positive though. Quitting came to me outside of "the rooms". But in hundreds of meetings in dozens of cities I never found it to be cultlike. Different groups meeting in churches, offices, even in backrooms of places that serve alcohol. Sorry it sucked for you, but it's not the standard.

>>213433809
It comes across as cultish for anyone not used to religion

>>213433754
>2/3 of my paycheck

lol, weed is $20 per ounce in my legal state. $16 with my med card. I couldn't go broke smoking if I tried.

>>213433839
I was raised a Jehovah's Witness and the similarities are remarkable.

>>213433839
>not used to religion
Sounds like a personal issue. Wanna share?

You VILL believe in Ze higher power and you WILL COMPLETE the 12 steps and YOU ZILL LIKE IT!!!

>>213433850
Good to see you still have the menstrual capacity to justify it

Is addiction a moral failing or are addicts victims of a disease? If they suffer from a disease how can they quit?

>>213433850
>lol, weed is $20 per ounce in my legal state
What a load of shit lmao.
>this niggga smoking leaf
Pathetic

>>213434593
It's neither. Addicts simply experience more pleasure from their substance of choice compared to normies. They're built different. However, normie society can't accept this and persecute addicts, forcing them to conform to a life they're not meant to live.

>>213434593
It's a hereditary predisposition and if you start using substances it's extremely easy to succumb to. My dad comes from a line of alcoholics and only ever had one drink in his life. His thought immediately after was "I can never have another one of these, it's too good." I did not have the same willpower.

>>213433809
>I never worked the program or got a sponsor but let me attempt to discredit your experience
Maybe you should reconsider not getting a sponsor. I also see you refuse to acknowledge the posts in this thread, one I pointed out to you, that agree with my experience. You haven’t even read the literature. I have no idea what you get from this delusion but that’s all it is. There’s proof right here you refuse to confront

I can drive through construction zones for twenty years and that hardly makes me an engineer.

>>213434593
The "addiction is le disease" meme was pushed by jobless psychology degree holders to create work for themselves. Notice how everything is now a disorder that needs "therapy". It makes addicts feel helpless and give up their agency. That way, they continue paying therapists in hopes it will magically solve whatever personal problem they're using the substance to cope with.

>>213434711
Saw this posted about ozzy. I wonder how many people actually have this gene variant

>>213433358
I personally don't like weed and don't smoke, but I think society would 100% better if everyone replaced alcohol with weed. At least, there would be a lot less fights and drunk driving accidents

>>213434783
This is sort of what I've suspected, that psychs don't put enough emphasis on willpower. Jung thinks it's more of a spiritual problem -- that addicts are trying to "become whole" or "become one with god," which is interesting at the least. But I think there's more willpower involved in addiction than the disease model allows for, maybe much more.

>>213434783
Nigga it's clear as day some people get euphoric from drinking and some get tired and dull. Some even get dizzy. People react differently to alcohol. This shouldn't be considered a disease, but it's not made up.

>>213434858
Most every substance is less harmful than alcohol.

>>213434862
It's a combination of genetics, lifestyle, reinforced behavior patterns, fucked up dopamine levels, untreated mental illness. inability to cope with life, and brain neurochemical imbalances. There is no one cause of alcoholism which is why it's so hard to treat.

>>213434912
As long as we’re in agreement that addicts have no responsibility for it. It’s all due to elements beyond their control.

>>213434867
There's definitely something to this. I have friends that get incredibly tired and just want to go to sleep after a few beers. Meanwhile I can drink 10 beers easily and it effects me like I just shot 10 energy drinks. Alcohol literally gives me energy and makes me hyper, like it's fixing some missing component in my brain.

>>213434933
There is SOME responsibility. It's not black or white. While the addiction is largely informed by the neurochemical imbalance, and also you keep drinking to avoid withdrawals, you are still a human with free will choosing to drink to oblivion. You are not entirely without choice.

>>213434943
I used to drink a couple of tall boys to get the will to study or to clean my apartment or to pay bills, but that spiraled out of control after a couple of years

>>213434867
>This shouldn't be considered a disease
That's what I said, thanks
>but it's not made up.
No one said that
>>213434912
These are just sterile academic ways to describe a fuck up who chooses to drink for a long time before they finally become addicted. There are lots of people with shitty lives and genetic predispositions to addiction who aren't alcoholics.
>There is no one cause of alcoholism which is why it's so hard to treat.
The treatment is to not drink. Whether that requires medical intervention or not, it's treated by simply not drinking anymore.

>>213419522
What's the 13th step?

>>213435072
the joke is sex

>>213435066
>These are just sterile academic ways to describe a fuck up
>Waaa stop using big words, just generalize everything because understanding a complex issue is hard
ok

>>213435072
You start drinking again.

>>213435072
Sleeping with female members (this is actually it)

>>213434867
How come nobody has done studies on this? It's easily observable in any given friend group

>>213435072
AA is just a place for boomers to drink free coffee and fuck each other afterward. It's not cheating if you're in recovery.

>>213435072
The actual 13th step is when you're still struggling after the first twelve steps so you move in with your sponsor so he can monitor you better but in reality you just become his boy toy. He fucks you.

>>213434933
>everything is black and white
Anon, come on now.
>>213435072
As another anon has already answered, it’s taking advantage of newcomers and having sex with them. It usually happens to females but there are male and female predators in aa who prey upon men too.

>>213424511
>>213432747
>>213433809

It’s in the big book and they start every meeting with this reading. Had you bothered paying attention you’d know this. You’re welcome to read it yourself. It’s “How it works”.
>Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who
do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple
program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of be ing honest with
themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born
that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which
demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who
suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have
the capacity to be honest.

>>213423062
You can just not do that instead you weak bitch.

>>213435381
Weakness you perceive in others seems to anger you. Ever thought to examine why?

>>213434867
Or the really weird ones that just don’t like it. The stat I heard is about 85% of drinks are consumed by 10% of drinkers. People from all walks of life and it usually runs in families

>>213433678
This was in the before-times for me.

You don't get it. It's easy enough to stay sober. But wanting to stay sober when you've had a drink makes no sense. Life suddenly makes sense and is enjoyable. Why would you deny yourself that?

>>213420666
We should make one gigantic city called Negropolis and send them all there

>>213435381
What do you have against alcoholics? Did your uncle use to get drunk and fuck you in the ass?

>>213434933
Nobody in sobriety believes they aren’t responsible to their actions. They admit they are powerless against their addictions and turn to a higher power for control of their lives. This is the basis of all faith based recover including AA. Take from it what you will but at least get it right.

>>213432677
You just defined what an alcoholic isn't.
Well done. Aa isn't for you.

>>213433850
>$20 an oz
Lmao

>>213431674
I struggle to not drink for sure. I can’t remember the last time I went without. I might taper or try times to start, like no drinking before 8:30 or something. Generally I start around 4 or 5

>>213435525
I've looked into this but so far no one I've contacted wants to give up any of their soil to house the negro menace

>>213419519
>>213419658
>>213420234
>>213432170
>the group in Atlanta that makes you live in a motel 6 with other alkies while you detox and then forces you to go recruit “pigeons” after 30 days of sobriety?
its called Complete Abandon, and its a cult lol

>>213432170
No. Fuck you. That faggot God dealt me a shit hand and it wasn't until it was too late for me to realize it.

>>213434637
it has gone from 400 dollars for an ounce of chemdawg to 110 in my state
not 20 dollars but wow its fucking cheap now

>>213419508
Figure out the times and places you drink, think about why you drink then, and then find something productive to take the place of it, like exercise, cooking, or learning a language.

>>213436491
>like exercise, cooking, or learning a language
These are all boring chores

>>213436546
With exersize and cooking at least you usually get a nice high after the activity.

>>213436564
I've never experienced this

>>213436590
Your dopamine receptors are fried.
Eating good food, and working out is supposed to make you feel good.
Me personally, I've yet to find any drug that matches the high of falling in love for the first time
Sadly since I've become bitter and jaded from dealing with whores I don't think I can experience this any more

>>213434593
It's a moral disease.
The cure is introspection and new perspectives.

Everyone is out of their fucking minds. I went to one to support my brother once and I felt like I was in a fucking looney bin.

>>213436491
>>213436564

>>213433081
Okay boomer.

>>213425151
>>213428142

This was more or less my experience. I got turned off of the one and only meeting I went to when there were a bunch of 50+ year old people who said they hadn't had a drink for 20 years and still attended 5 meetings a week. Bitching about exes from 20 years ago that still make them "want" to drink even though they were sober. If that's even better than dying young, it's not by much.

I reduced my consumption by 90+% on my own just because I got older and realized I had to grow up. I don't begrudge anyone who "needs" AA, but I would want a friend or family member to try actual clinical stuff instead.

>>213421997
>you’re free to leave anytime
>you’ll just lose all your support and you’ll die
This is textbook cult. Look, I was in for several years. I used to be you. I have family that’s been in for over 30 years and it really seems to work for them. I think it’s a cult but it’s not Jonestown. It’s interesting because it’s a cult that seems to be better for some. You could argue religion is a cult but some people operate well in it. I’m glad it works for you and you should stay. Seriously. The side you aren’t acknowledging however, is that when you do leave, the members treat you like a relapse case or you must not have been an alcoholic.

>>213437182
>The side you aren’t acknowledging however, is that when you do leave, the members treat you like a relapse case or you must not have been an alcoholic.
Where the fuck do you live? Never seen this happen.

>>213435867
If you're truly addicted, tapering is almost impossible with wine or spirits, you'll have to use beer. Just drink one less beer every other day, and that's about it. I've done it before from an avg of about 12 drinks a day, and it took about three weeks. Fucked up a couple times, as in drank a whole 12 pack rather than whatever I'd prescribed, e.g., 8, but you just go right back to the number of drinks you intended. Good luck, it's doable and way better than real withdrawal or going to a detox facility.

>>213436656
>Your dopamine receptors are fried
Yeah, too bad I can't do anything about it

>>213437182
Religions are just mainstream cults.
Cult is just a word they turned evil like the words "conspiracy theory"

>>213437557
There's something called neuroplasticity. Give yourself a dopamine break and receptors will "grow" back over time

>>213437557
You can.
>Walk away from the screen
>Get dressed
>Then go for a walk outside
Don't worry about the future. The present is a gift. That's why they are called "presents"

>>213422301
>but if you're here, you can't just just stop drinking and return to browsing 4chan 12 hours a day, watching porn and anime, gaming, etc..
I've sobered up and done exactly that. 13 months now after failed rehab stints. It's an empty life but at least I'm not physically dying anymore.

>>213437286

It’s literally in this thread and in the literature. Jesus Christ you people are in deep denial.
>>213435311
>>213424926
>>213420346
There’s a few. I’m not going to go find more. It’s not like it will matter anyway because you’ll ignore it either way. If I tell you my real world experience with members that I’ve ran into (from al anon and aa) you’ll either call me a liar or tell me it dosent actually happen. You wouldn’t know if it happens if you never left,stayed sober, then ran into members. You’re talking about something you have absolutely no frame of reference for.

But like I said and provided reference for with an exert from “how it works” which you will also undoubtedly refuse to acknowledge.

3 years sober, it's literally piss-easy.

>>213438218
How?

It literally isn't. If you thought quitting was easy it meant you didn't have a problem. The problem isn't doing dumb shit because of alcohol, it's not being able to stop