Thread 213426822

I don't understand how some people prefer T2 to T1. Furlong's John Connor is annoying as fuck, T1000 is slow and ineffective and hesitates to kill too much, too many quips, turned the Terminator into a father figure for John (which imo is a bad narrative choice). The action scenes are better but this franchise works better as a thriller.
T1, aside from some dated effects and corny 80s synths, is a perfect movie. Perfect pacing, not a single scene wasted, every line of dialogue makes sense and characters act realistically in their situation. Kyle Reese is the best character in the franchise and Michael Biehn absolutely killed it in his role and overshadowed Arnie for me.

T2 has liquid terminator and good boy arnie along with Sarah Connor at her most badass. That said the first scene with the terminator ravaging in the bar and Sarah is freaking tf out is possibly my favorite terminator scene altogether

i dont like that the t1000 had sarah cornered and then he didnt just kill her and morph into her. bunch of bullshit fuck you cameron

>>213426822 (OP)
Terminator gave me nightmares as a kid. James Cameron says the idea was born from a nightmare. Yet T2 onward they made Arnie a hero and went full action flick. If they rebooted or even just made the millionth sequel, but they made it straight horror with red eyes in the dark and scary kills, it'd make a billion plus.

>>213427109
You are quite correct, Termiator one is from the horror school not the sci fi. The idea of the unstoppable killer, as in Mchael form teh haloween movies, that you shoot several times but just gets up and keeps coming is the underlying jungian archetype. The unkillable killer.

>>213426990
Exactly, holy shit this. In T1 if a Terminator approached the target, it instantly took action. T1000 absolutely had no reason not to kill Sarah as soon he touched her. He can now replicate her voice and call to John, he didn't need to force her to call John

>>213426822 (OP)
T1
>perfect pacing with not a single boring spot
>visceral action
>Arnie is a godlike villain
>suspense exists
>technoir setting
>kino all the way through

T2
>after asylum break and untill factory sequence movie is sleep inducing; I don't give a shit about the black scientist plot and Sarah side mission
>movie is pg13, only a couple of gruesome deaths in otherwise Disney show
>Patrick is a good villain but he isn't Arnie
>suspense dies down when John has both Arnie and Sarah protecting him
>comfy but not as kino as neon city 90s suburbs
>as I said, it's kino untill the desert, afterwards it's just kinda boring and forfetrable untill the ending sequence

T2 is only getting praised because more people watched it and it's good family movie.
T1 is superior one in almost every single aspect.

>>213427481
T2 has way better action.

>>213427717
Its only redeeming aspect, perfect for brainlets

>>213426822 (OP)
T2 devolves into a saturday morning cartoon by the third act. Its incredible to see a movie lose its edge the longer it goes on. I hate T2 for this reason and im glad im not the only one

>>213427905
And you know what? I will go further. I think terminator salvation was a great movie on par with t2, and would have been an awesome trilogy if fox actually committed and allowed the world to become more lasered, neon and smoky (as was the original plan)

>>213426822 (OP)
The best thing about this movie is that it doesn't even feel that dated. With the rise of AI and robotics technology, it actually seems more plausible than ever. Back then it was a crazy futuristic sci-fi horror movie. But now it actually does seem possible. The scenes when they're in the 2020s dealing with Hunter-Killer drones in the sky, searching for any human to kill? That's practically what's happening in Ukraine right now just with smaller drones.

If they ever perfect humanoid robots they will absolutely be used for military purposes. And if they ever turn on humanity en masse it would be catastrophic.

T1 did a great job of conveying that possible vision. The actions of The Terminator in his attempt to kill Sarah Connor, and the determination Kyle Reese has to save her, underscores just how absolutely horrific the future must be.

By contrast, Terminator 2 is more of a feel good story about how the AI-controlled robotic killing machines can be good, actually, if we teach them to be. I still enjoy it, and while I used to think it was the better of the two films, as time has gone on, T1 is absolutely superior

>>213426990
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuFkEzwi58o

Here is stupid scene from T1. Why did he run away? He could just kill everyone here easily lol.

>>213426822 (OP)
>T1000 is slow and ineffective and hesitates to kill too much
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaA1HrGNnwg

The T-1000 is one of the best examples of a bad guy ACTUALLY trying to kill a protagonist who is only managing to escape by the skin of his teeth. No other movie comes close in this department so it's a weird one for you to criticise on that score.

The T-1000 doesn't 'hesitate', he's supremely confident in achieving his goal, analytical, and sometimes even cautious keeping his options open, using the best strategy, etc. He doesn't sprint around all the time for similar reasons that a cheetah doesn't hunt like that, even though it's the fastest animal on Earth that can outclass any prey in terms of the land speed record - and knows it. Worth reading the novelisation where it's more specific about his motivations and thinking. Actually a good read that enhances the film.

>>213428227

Not necessarily. He easily could've ran out of ammo. And the impact from the accident might have damaged some of the Terminator's internal components. We see later in the movie that they are able to harm and damage the Terminator with gunshots and blunt force attacks. If The T1 was out of ammo, it might have known that it would not be able to fight off 20+ armed police officers.

It's goal is to complete the mission, not to attempt to complete it but fail. It knew that if it ran, there would be an easier chance to kill Sarah Connor later. And that's what happened, the Terminator regroups, he repairs his body, he gets more ammunition, and then he storms the police office where Sarah is being kept

>>213426822 (OP)

Personally I love T2 more but objectively T1 is the better film for me as it feels like Sci-fi/Horror with a gritty atmosphere compared to T2 which is Sci-fi/Action and super slick which is fine but doesn't have the same feeling of ominous dread that hangs over T1 from the start right up until the end!!!FACT!!!

>>213428354
Fags will make excuses for the T1 Terminator, but then bitch about the T-1000 as if it's not doing its own calculations.

It's like asking why Solid Snake uses stealth and doesn't just walk in the front door and openly fight every motherfucker on the base since he's such a fucking badass. Mystique using disguise and deception is probably a better example, even though she's like some martial arts uber-bitch.

He has a variety of options and doesn't have to totally reveal himself or literally go full-metal until he gets close where he has maximum probability of success. Also 'rule of cool' still applies even if you imagine he could have done something that wasn't against the rules to get John. Multiple ultrathin and long stabbing filaments just wouldn't look as cool as 'knives and stabbing weapons' - and their focused nature matches the T-1000's overall character and aesthetic.

People who underrate T2 generally miss the dramatic character details, like Sarah almost becoming the very thing she hates, a robotic emotionless assassin, or John truly taking his first steps to become 'a great military leader', (to be fair a lot more in the scenes that were cut). Which isn't to say there isn't any character shit in T1, but as been pointed out, it's ultimately just a horror/slasher flick by comparison.

>>213426822 (OP)
T1 was always better, and I've never understood the T2 hype. I've rewatched T1 dozens of times, but T2 I've only rewatched like twice. T1's story is simple, streamlined, and perfectly executed. It's also compelling. T2's main character is boring as fuck, and the framing of the terminator as a surrogate father is so retarded and uninteresting it actually made me cringe. I can't think of a single thing I liked about T2 other than the scene where Sarah sees Arnold for the first time in the insane asylum and basically has a heart attack.

T1 is practically a horror movie. T2 is practically and R rates kids movie.

I thought we already agreed that Terminator 2 is just an unnecessary childrens version of a good movie just like the second Godfather is a completely unnecessary piece of shit that people only like for the parts that are leftovers from the first movie.

>>213426990
>i dont like that the t1000 had sarah cornered and then he didnt just kill her and morph into her. bunch of bullshit fuck you cameron
>>213427158
>Exactly, holy shit this. In T1 if a Terminator approached the target, it instantly took action. T1000 absolutely had no reason not to kill Sarah as soon he touched her. He can now replicate her voice and call to John, he didn't need to force her to call John

If you notice the T-1000 doesn't come into direct contact with Sarah until then and the only time he hears her voice is when she says "Fuck you", so it could make itself look like Sarah, as it did later, but couldn't replicate her voice and why the T-1000 doesn't instantly kill her once it comes into contact with her, repeatedly telling her to call John so it could copy her voice!!!FACT!!!

>>213426822 (OP)
Sarah connor chronicles is better because it has best girl. The later movies are all shit

T2 be like
>Future... robot lasers human down and instead of exploding in pieces like in the first movie there is some firework in his body.
>John is getting hunted by T1000 in the crowded place. Pretty cool, pretty cool.
>Chase scene. Cool, very cool.
>Asylum break. Top shit, scary and cool.
>Desert. Zzzzzzzzzzzz.
>Black guy family scene. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
>Corpo building heist. Zzzzzzzzzz, not a single real enemy for T800 and Sarah.
>Police raid. Minigun scene is fun, but toothless and feel like kids attraction rather than bloodboiling massacre of police station in T1.
>Factory. Okay to badass.

T2 is so inferior to T1, this is not even funny.

>>213429583
Not bad. T-1000 definitely has limited or distant samples of her voice. Closest early one is probably this, (but plenty of background noise too):
https://youtu.be/goHEebEPfRw?t=89

Nobody remembers but he technically makes physical contact when he knifes down her back through the elevator ceiling. Though you could say he needs to be focused on getting data or needs more prolonged contact or some shit. The physical contact thing is a little goofy if you think about it too much though, since he copies the guy at the coffee machine through contact with the bottom of his shoes presumably. Fun mechanic that limits his abilities, but not quite kosher in terms of hard sci-fi.

>>213427481
i agree with this and i loved t2 as a kid. that slog between the nuthouse and cyberdyne heist is not camerons best work. t1 arnie was "the floor is lava" tier dangerous and they kept slipping away from the t1000's direct attacks that the thrill was diminished by the end.

>child actor lead
I will not watch your movie

>>213426822 (OP)
when i was a teenager i preferred T2 because of the action but it's obvious as you get older that T1 is the superior pic.

>>213427158
My logic is that it understood John knew about its ability to imitate people, and if John saw through the ruse, then Sarah would be an essential hostage to try and bait him back. If it killed Sarah, it would have had zero leverage if John escaped the facility.

>>213429583
>If you notice the T-1000 doesn't come into direct contact with Sarah until then and the only time he hears her voice is when she says "Fuck you", so it could make itself look like Sarah, as it did later, but couldn't replicate her voice and why the T-1000 doesn't instantly kill her once it comes into contact with her, repeatedly telling her to call John so it could copy her voice!!!FACT!!!

I forgot that the T-1000 actually did make physical contact when he sliced her back in the elevator but still didn't capture her voice!!!FACT!!!

The scene where he jumps onto the semi and unloads the m16 into the T-1000's face makes T2 the superior movie. Also "that's damn minigun!"

>>213426822 (OP)
Future War scenes in T1 were top notch.

>>213428797
well tbf t2 has a lot of good scenes:
>sarah escaping from psych ward
>nuclear explosion in LA
>Arnie and the minigun firing at the cops
>entire dyson sequence is good
>arnie thumbs up (cheesey but good at the time)

it's a good movie it's just not T1 good

>>213430030
>Desert. Zzzzzzzzzzzz.
Character shit you stupid Zoomer. Showing how much Sarah changed, the shit she did since the last film, and how Mom is always prepared.

>Black guy family scene. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Has to be established to humanise him before Sarah comes in to blow him away. Her being a hair-trigger away from doing so before she realises she dun goofed ironic is the kinoest character moment in the whole film, and film in general.

>Corpo building heist. Zzzzzzzzzz
Really makes you think they have a shot at Cyberdyne, and it's all or nothing for the cops "all of them I think" and the T-1000 to stop them.

THREAD THEME:

https://youtu.be/_IPBgUKGdYk

>>213426822 (OP)
Apples and oranges. T1 is basically a low budget “sci-fi slasher”, while T2 is literally one of the greatest action films ever. Both are excellent movies either way you slice it.

>>213426822 (OP)
T2 is better because I always shed a few tears at the end.

Quick question:

Are there any faggots here who have not seen 'Colossus: The Forbin Project' (1970)?

If so, I just want you to know that you are pathetic Zoomie homos.

>>213430583
i downloaded it a while back but its on a list with 500 other films

>>213428069
The grouch and snob andrei tarkovsky even said that the future scenes in t1 were a kickass rendition of the future

Have you seen this poster? John Anonnor aka Anon Connor?

>>213426822 (OP)
I think the Terminator as father figure is good. Without it we wouldn't have had the scene with Sarah's cold appraisal of the value of the Terminator:

>Watching John with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. The terminator would never stop. It would never leave him, and it would never hurt him, never shout at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there. And it would die to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice.
You have to admit it was a nice bit of philosophical music.
That and "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves".

>>213427905
Yeah it goes on, I found the steel mill excruciating

>>213428227
The fucking synth music man it's so funny

>>213426822 (OP)
i still find the idea of sarah banging this crazy ass lunatic who says he's from the future kinda whack

>>213432832
Dude, have you ever actually met a real woman before?

>>213428069
film a kid wouldn't instantly get. they'd have to be so young they can't appreciate relationships yet but linda hamilton couldn't fit more nicely into a typical fantasy. it's a lot of chasing and running where there's little room to be confused. meanwhile in 2
>sarah is now totally unrecognizable, fairly unattractive and quite scary
>there's a little kid we have to be sensitive enough to understand could one day be the battle-hardened commander shown during the intro
>there's some weird sexual stuff right off the bat with the waitress showing cock-shock in response to arnold
>whereas in the acquiring clothes punk scene in 1 you gotta' be a homosexual scot reading into things to pick up on all that stuff
>we have to understand who stepparents are and everything that entails
>you have to be emotionally intelligent enough to appreciate the position john is in re: sarah
>there's a full PTSD arc with sarah and little kids know nothing about PTSD
>sarah becoming a terminator while the terminator becomes a human is too heady a theme for kids to pick up on
>we get a fully realized legitimate black character who doesn't possess a single stereotype and dies like a hero (another thing kids can't appreciate)
there's so much more emotional stuff going on beyond two young attractive people loving each other in a desperate situation.

>>213432869
sarah came off as a smart girl to me not some instagram whore but i guess you're right

>>213427481
how the fuck is T2 a good family movie?

>>213432832
it was the stinky hobo pants
they drove her crazy

>>213431980
the synth music is based

It's funny how you only see this opinion on this website

>>213431511
It's a myth that Tarkovsky liked Terminator, there's no reliable source that claims that

>>213426822 (OP)
You're a stupid person, I'm not going to waste my time explaining things to an idiot.

>>213432832
>Be an average waitress from LA
>Get stood up by her date
>Absolutely eventless boring life with a stupid job
>Suddenly a soldier from the future comes to save you and be your guardian angel for the rest of your days
>Has a raw alpha male energy, will literally die for you
>He's not bad looking either
>Says he loves you and you're the most important person to him in the whole world
Isn't this exactly what women want? Kyle Reese was basically a guard dog if it was human. Also, didn't he pick up good clothes during the police chase in the mall?

>>213426822 (OP)
>T1 is undoubtedly superior to T2
Why not both? T1 and T2 complement one another so well that the other movie is an essential watch of you've seen one of them.

>>213433308
Plus he was wearing a homeless dude's pants so he had criminal scumbag pheromones enticing her like a magic enchantment.

>>213433098
Its from his diary or some shit

Based, fucking tired of T2edditors shitting up movie discussions

>>213430396
T1 did all of its characterization without slowing the movie to a crawl.

>>213433388
Okay I'll rephrase it, I didn't mean that T2 was a bad movie. It's a great movie, the last great Terminator movie before the shitty sequels galore, it has plenty of iconic scenes. It's just that T1 is legitimately one of the best movies of all time. T2 provides a happy ending for humanity but ultimately it's not a necessary sequel

>>213426822 (OP)
T2 was literally made to sell toys to kids

https://youtu.be/Ew109tRRK7w?si=F-OQLKHD6UxaSfkz

>>213433562
T2 is just a way to make it palatable to kids. Cameron is great at dumbing down movies so they'll sell. See Aliens for a prime example.

A lot of the schizo energy from 1 is lost.
Jacked roid freak on pcp stalking "sarah connor" while a schizoid vet homeless guy claims that she's the key to humanity and so on

>>213433645
And it worked

>>213433562
>T2 provides a happy ending for humanity but ultimately it's not a necessary sequel
There's no such thing as a necessary sequel. Even the films that are of a trilogy are part of a singular story, meaning those don't count as being real sequels.

>>213433308
Yep, it's literally their fantasy.

That's why old skool Dr. Who gets all the chicks. He not only tells them he's from the future, but also outer space, and just step into my phone box ...

Shocking how often sci-fi gets this right. Star Man, Ego, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Doc Brown, Captain Kirk ... on every planet ...
The more irrational the story, the more they'd find it appealing.

>>213433562
>T2 provides a happy ending for humanity
but the ending is open ended? it leaves you questioning

>>213434056
In the original T2 ending old Sarah Connor is living peacefully with John and his family. While it was cut I still assumed that's what happened canonically, James Cameron particularly said somewhere that 'the Sarah's, John's and Dyson's actions weren't in vain'

>>213434567
he also said this ending was worse because it leaves no room for imagination, then he restored it for the extended edition and advocated for the aliens ai upscale and is now making 4 avatar sequels, senile old man should just go the asylum already

>>213434768
At this you pretty much choose the canon ending yourself. Anything past Terminator 1 may be considered fan fiction

>>213426822 (OP)
even a single stunt / action scene from t2 mogs most of what hollywood can put out now, and the movie is full of them. its no wonder that it ends up being people's favorite film, not just terminator movie.

T2 is good, but it's bloated. John is also annoying as fuck. It is also too meta, i.e. Terminator getting glasses for no reason and acting all "cool" and KNOWING he is cool. Makes no sense. In T1, he got the glasses to cover his cut out eye. It's clear that when making T2, Cameron was aware of what has become popular, and just did fanservice.

T1 is KINO. It is a perfect film. Tech Noir scene alone is better than anything in T2.

>>213434937
Why don't movies look like this anymore?

>>213434937
Vulnerable and scared Sarah was absolute sexo. While she still has an amazing body in T2 she has that bitchy soldier vibe which turns me off

>>213427109
>>213427151

The police station rampage from T1 is fucking metal af. I cant think of too many movies that pull that off. Maybe matrix comes to mind

>>213426822 (OP)
T2 was a family friendly adventure flick because that's who Cameron is. It is vastly inferior to the first but there's a big crowd for that kind of thing.

>>213435025
Ignorant and clueless gen alphas gaslit themselves into thinking Nolan and Villeneuve are masters of cinema.

>>213426822 (OP)
Watched this movie high as fuck once and realized it's about rape

>>213435196
The only thing that ruins it, which I wish was never pointed out to me, is that they screwed up the sound effects and played the audio of shotgun blasts when he fires the rifle and vice versa.

>>213426822 (OP)
Nah T2 is better

>>213426990
If you remember, the T1000 was malfunctioning after being frozen and rethawed out. He probably kept her alive in case his disguise of her didn't work. If she was dead and John knew, then the T1000 wouldn't be able to use that trick on him anymore. His target is John, not anyone else.

>>213427717
fuck you, asshole

>>213435760
This 35 year old CGI holds up better than anything produced today. Unreal.

>>213433057
Zoomer detected. It was a different time. R rated movies had lines of toys and cartoons for kids back then.

>>213433057
It was considered a family movie when it came out. I remember my entire family went to see it in theaters, I was just a kiddo.

>>213433057
When Arnie cracks all the male orderlies skulls in the hospital then just pushes the female one you can tell it's a family movie. Still, it's funny the first movie is the horror one but T2 has some harder hitting imagery like the nuke scene and spike hands.

>>213436467
The hardest image for me was when Arnie empties an entire machinegun point blank in the T-1000's boy and face. You know it's two machines going at it, but the imagery of one human doing this to another still remains the same. This was pre-internet, so the imagery burned itself on my 8 year old retinas.

>>213436533
*body

>>213435760
>>213436300
how the fuck did they even do that CGI back then

Am I the only one that likes Edward Furlong as kid John Connor? Maybe it's because I watched the movie as a kid but I still love the father and son dynamic between the two, and Furlong does a good job of playing an annoying brat

>>213436608
I suspect everyone worked in one room together. Which might have added to the quality. Also more time, experience and overall competence.

>>213426822 (OP)
You're basically right, but even coming to T1 for the first time as someone who's never seen it, it's kind of annoying the film spends a half hour kind of making you pretend not to know what Terminators are. Same with Alien.

>>213436830
Pretty much. It was infant, pioneering technology and it took a lot of care, attention and talent to make it work. So you basically had a bunch of experts in their respective fields putting their heads together, scrutinising flaws and coming up with solutions. Now everything's basically done off the shelf until it looks acceptable enough for the cost.

>>213426822 (OP)
Him wasting the minigun in T2 just to scare the cops is so lame

>>213426822 (OP)
I love both for different reasons and I have no preference over one or the other, other than whatever I feel like during a particular day. Personally I found Furlong's Connor a near flawless performance. T1000 was great, a tolerable amount of quips, and I like the father figure route they went with. Anyway, they're both virtually flawless films to me.

Everything past 2 is essentially garbage of course.

For me it's The Sarah Connor Chronicles

>>213437769
>Everything past 2 is essentially garbage of course.
I'll always respect 3 for pulling the trigger on the ending, otherwise it was pretty shit.

>>213426822 (OP)
The fact you had to make a thread proves T1 aint better than T2

Whenever I get drunk I watch reaction channels and I'm surprised at the parallels between T1 and T2. It's beat for beat the same movie with slight differences. Then I vow to make a thread on here exposing all the parallels to show Cameron made the same movie twice, then I go to sleep and forget about it.

>>213438473
Well no shit that's the entire point. It's the same movie with a bigger budget and aimed at kids and teenagers.

>>213426822 (OP)
Ironically, it’s as Alien is to Aliens.

>>213435760
This CGI looks fucking outdated.

>>213438840
Yeah, but it visually rhymes too. Like when Sarah is going insane in the asylum and is filmed and we see it through the television. It's the same as Kyle going insane during the interrogation and we are watching the television. I should watch them back to back again, so I could discuss it in detail. Not because it is some grand new insight, but because it might offer something new again. The similiraties between the movies are a bit underlighted, aside from the obvious ones. A lot of little moments and beats are repeated too. Sometimes blatant, sometimes a little more subtle. I'd have to write it down as I'm watching both.

>>213426950
my favorite is the police station shootout

>>213438973
>Sarah literally became Kyle Reese
Pottery

>>213438973
Don't forget the line "I have always loved you". Kyle said to Sarah in T1 and Sarah said it to John in T2

>graduate johns hopkins cum laude
>called in to interview badly disturbed, delusional suspect
>unkillable robot assassin from the future, blah blah blah
>what's all the ruckus
>unkillable german guy murders the entire station, vanishes, never caught
>12 years later, still treating this one mental bitch
>just will not give up the unkillable robot future assassin shit
>like change the fucking record lady

>>213439709
I bet he didn't say that when she stabbed him in the fucking knee. I think he came back in the third one, but was equally flabbergasted, but I'm not sure. In the first one he says
>I can make a career out of this
the shit Kyle said
>Then in the second one he's the head of an asylum and actually witnesses the terminators firsthand

I think they ruined it in the third one, but I forgot how. Maybe he could've become a believer, quit his job, and become a bomber of Cyberdyne systems himsel or any AI related tech. There could have been a spinoff there. I can see him with a bandana and a machinegun.

>>213438959
So? Its a product of its time you turdhuffing chonksydonk