Thread 213800046

Let me tell you why I loathe Star Trek Insurrection. It squandered the chance to do something Amazing instead of retreading the TNG Episode, Journey's End.

Insurrection came out in November of 1998, just after the start of Season 7 of Deep Space Nine.

What was going on in Deep Space Nine at the time? The Dominion War, and Insurrection has the crew of the god damned Enterprise, the Flagship of the Federation handling First Contact with a race of Snookis and then the removal and relocation of a population of a planet that reverses aging causing jokes about the cast getting old.

Johnathan Frakes famously said "How do you out Borg the Borg?" Well, you got the fucking Dominion.

The 9th Movie should have crossed TNG and Deep Space Nine over and ended the Dominion War. Then postponed the start of Deep Space Nine Season 7 until December.

Picard leads a fleet in the Gamma Quadrant, pressuring the Founders to surrender, and Sisko leads a team fighting Cardassia. Sisko regains respect and trust in Picard, book ending their relationship which was established to be shaky as fuck since Picard, as Locutus, was responsible for the death of Sisko's first wife in the Battle of Wolf 359.

The war is ended, Picard is promoted to Admiral, and Season 7 of DS9 deals with Gul Dukat trying to get the war started again while The Federation is involved in the rebuilding of Cardassia. The season still has Gul Dukat getting possessed by a Pah-wraith and ends with Sisko fucking off and joins the Prophets.

The fact that nobody acknowledges the death of Dax, Worf's wife who had died in the Season finale of Season 6 is still BS. At least his boobs started to firm up.

I get that the movies were a TNG thing at the time, but the asspulls they did to keep the Enterprise out of the plotlines for DS9, when the Enterprise is supposed to be the Flagship. The Enterprise should have been front in line to fuck around and find out in the Gamma Quadrant.

>>213800046 (OP)
>The fact that nobody acknowledges the death of Dax, Worf's wife who had died in the Season finale of Season 6 is still BS
This never occurred to me before, because as a Bong Jadzia's death hadn't aired when Insurrection came out.

>>213800046 (OP)
Yeah, Insurrection is definitely one of the worse movies. And it just went downhill from there with Nemesis.

>>213800046 (OP)
One and only movie I fell asleep in the kinoplex of all places, and I considered myself a trekkie.
It's trash. Almost as bad as Nemesis.

>>213800046 (OP)
It's just a mediocre TNG 2-parter
Who thought this shit was movie-worthy? More out of place action-jackson Picard and his sidekick funny Data

>>213800985
That episode first aired in June of 1998,

>>213801363
Should have been a Voyager 2 parter at best.

OP is correct...but incorrect. You can't make a movie banking on the audience having watched another show. The MCU tried that with all their Disney+ shows and their movies after that bombed because nobody watched those fucking shows or knew what the fuck was going on.
Movie did suck though.

>>213801204
Nemesis is borderline unwatchable. The only thing worse is nu-Trek, which isn't as sleep inducing but filled with such vile faggotry that I get genuinely upset when I'm exposed to it. Like getting AIDS sprayed into my eyes and ears or something.

>>213801730
Kek shut up. All you need is a 3 minute scene at the start to catch the audience up, which they've done in almost all of the movies. Such as explaining why worf is back on the enterprise and they're all wearing different uniforms now. And it's way different when expecting the audience to be watching the current relevant big tv show that's been on for almost seven years versus expecting them to have watched the last dozen marvel movies and half dozen shit shows in the last year or two

>>213801922

BRO WE NEED MORE CROSSOVERS TO SAVE A FRANCHISE. JUST ONE MORE CROSSOVER BRO JUST CROSS SOME OVERS OVER BRO JUST DO A CROSSOVER SO FIRST OFFICER BLARP SHITTO SAVES THE DAY EVERYONE KNOWS BLARP HE'S A FAN FAVORITE JUST HAVE BLARP SHITTO BE THE MAIN CHARACTER IN THE BIG CROSSOVER EVENT IMAGINE ALL THE CHARACTERS IN ONE MOVE EVERYONE WILL LOVE IT BLARP, FLUURIG, DEEZOX AND ANAAL ON ONE SCREEN OMG ARE THEY STUPID THEY SHOULD JUST DO A CROSSOVEEEERRRRRRRRR

>>213801922
>All you need is a 3 minute scene at the start to catch the audience up
Yeah, a 3 minute scene to catch the audience up on the 4 year long war, Dax dying (if they even know who that is), etc. Retard.
>Such as explaining why worf is back on the enterprise and they're all wearing different uniforms now.
Nobody cares. They didn't explain the uniform change in TNG from seasons 1&2 to season 3 onward either.
> And it's way different when expecting the audience to be watching the current relevant big tv show that's been on for almost seven years versus expecting them to have watched the last dozen marvel movies and half dozen shit shows in the last year or two
DS9 was great, but it didn't have nearly the mainstream cultural impact that TNG did. I would bet that a large chunk of people that saw Insurrection in theaters only watched TNG (or TNG&TOS) and knew nothing of DS9.

Riker Maneuver looked kino though. Trek can do great battleship fights when they try.

Rick Berman was ashamed of DS9, he was not going to make a Dominion movie

>>213802141
Is that when the Microsoft Sidewinder joystick popped up? Literal barf moment.

>>213802025
>They didn't explain the uniform change in TNG from seasons 1&2 to season 3 onward either.
I always liked the theory that federation kept changing up their uniforms so if someone got sent back in time they'd be able to approximate their destination by the uniforms everyone was wearing.
Honesty though, through all of trek, the only uniforms I really liked that felt functional were the TOS movies, and Enterprise.
It always bothers me that in the TNG era, they had just decided to get rid of pockets, which doesn't make any sense. Pockets are super useful, but these advanced humans of the future I guess just have to carry everything around.

>>213802168
>It always bothers me that in the TNG era, they had just decided to get rid of pockets,
How could you tell that the pants don't have pockets?

>>213800046 (OP)
>>213800946
>>213769118

>>213802025
I loved TNG it was one of my favorite shows growing up, didn't even know what ds9 was until after voyagers run was over. I think I knew of it but never saw a single episode, I don't think it played on my TV channels maybe during the day or after midnight but I only remember seeing voyager then TNG right after late at night. Have tried watching it a few times but get bored. So I think they were right to write it off in the movies based on my experience. Don't think they played it everywhere.

>>213802272
Deep Space Nine is pure Kino.

>>213802272
I didn't watch DS9 until I was an adult, as a kid I wrote it off "A star trek show where they don't go anywhere?, That sucks!" and watched TNG on Repeat. I watched it entirely for the first time 10 years ago and realized it's Best Trek

>>213802441
>"A star trek show where they don't go anywhere?, That sucks!"
This opinion was there from ep 1 and it's always retarded. They were at a base out on the frontier so the adventure came to them.

>>213802493
What is the point of arguing with 30 year old opinions?
Everybody loves DS9 but didn't in real time.
In fact regarding Insurrection, they shot a Quark cameo but it was scrapped. they didn't believe the audience would recognize Quark. so would recognize the Jem'Hadar?

>>213802166
Berman literally thought this brings in more teenagers because gaming was big in the 90s. And what looks more like 90s console gaming than a computer joystick?

>>213802546
>Everybody loves DS9 but didn't in real time.
Not that they didn't love it, they didn't even watch an episode.

>>213802546
well, did they "recognize" Son'a?

>>213802610
Explains how the show went on for 7 years

>>213802617
No need, the Sony were introduced in the movie.
It would take 30 minutes to recap DS9 for movie audiences to explain why suddenly the Enterprise is at war, who is this enemy, these weird races. it would not do DS9 justice.
if you think like a producer, and not a fan. you will understand this is not viable - although all of us ITT would have liked to see it happen

>>213800046 (OP)
You could in no way have satisfyingly ended the dominion war in a movie anon, it’s got to many moving parts to it and there’s no way you could’ve made something with both casts that could’ve worked. But they could’ve totally showcased a battle in the war, maybe have the enterprise on some sort of diplomatic mission that the founders try to sabotage.

>>213802650
TNG and DS9 were both filmed and sold for syndication.
Voyager on the other hand was a flagship show of UPN from what I remember, paramount's second attempt at breaking into television.
But filming everything up front and selling it in as many markets as you can was a pretty solid television production strategy. Didn't make you as beholden to advertisers, because that was a problem for whoever bought the broadcast rights.
So you had your budget and could plan which episodes get money for location, props, cg, and makeup and which one happen in a runabout.

>>213802650
>Explains how the show went on for 7 years
I didn't say the show wasn't a hit, I said there were a lot of uptight retards fans like you that stuck up their nose and said "No ship! This ain't muh Star Trek!"

>>213802650
ratings weren't make or brake for DS9 because of syndication. although it did worry Paramount, they wouldn't have dared prematurely cancel of their premier franchise shows as to not rock the boat.
Star Trek used to have a lot of credit to it's name. Enterprise was very much in the position of DS9 ratings wise, but what could work in the 90s did not work in 2005 anymore.

>>213800046 (OP)
Michael Piller wrote an interesting book on the making of Insurrection, ultimately a cautionary tale about the pitfalls of making a movie by committee. The book itself had an interesting history because it was written with the blessing of Viacom, but shelved by the powers that be without being published, then uploaded online and eventually published by his wife years after Piller's death. https://archive.org/details/fade-in-the-writing-of-star-trek-insurrection

>>213801471
UK aired DS9 months behind.

>>213802924
This. But also DS9 was loved by critics and fans. Enterprise got a lukewarm reception at best.

>>213803188
If ENT went for 7, I believe people would adore it today.

>>213802828
>"No ship! This ain't muh Star Trek!"

i knew a kid like that in junior high while DS9 was airing.

i kneed him in the stomach and while he was groaning in pain, i pulled his pants down. he wasn't wearing any underwear and you couldn't even see his penis because of his massive bush.

everyone nearby on the playground laughed at him. he killed himself in college later on.

do i feel bad? no. not one bit. with a penis like that suicide was inevitable.

>>213803396
Enterprise was good for Season 3 and 4.

People call it the Star Trek curse, but did ever think it may just be a scam?

Goes like this: Oh First Contact was great, I'm certainly going to see the next TNG movie. Why was Insurrection so bad?

It was a low budget movie because they know you were coming cause you saw First Contact a high budget movie.

>>213804190
First Contact: $45 million budget
Insurrection: $70 million budget

>>213800046 (OP)
Nobody expected people to keep up rigorously with episodic TV in the '90s and only hypernerds expected political worldbuilding to matter.

>>213803858
I like season 1 and 2
More than I do Voyager season 1 through 4

>>213802924
>could work in the 90s did not work in 2005 anymore.

A lot of people heard the theme song and saw the cheesy flag-waving video that accompanied it and went NOPE.

The show itself was okay, but as a distant prequel it let you know in advance not to expect much that was new, whether it be new technologies or new and significant alien civilisations on the order of the Borg and the Dominion. Some early episodes played like rehashes of TNG/Voyager stories, adding to the impression that Enterprise was essentially a stale show with no strong ideas.

But I liked it more than Voyager. FUCK Voyager.

>>213804306
Star Trek itself was already stale by the time Voyager ended. There was a new season every Fall from 1987 to 2004. People got tired and Enterprise suffered for it.

>>213805004
>>213804306
Voyager was amazing and I goon to Neelix every single day.

>>213805256
Neelix makes it unwatchable for me

>>213805524
>>213805500

>>213802159
he was ashamed of DS9, but proud of insurrection and nemesis? jesus

>>213800046 (OP)
I liked it and you can't stop me
I even liked riker pulling out the logitech wingman extreme joystick

>>213803165
Fascinating read. Thank you.

>>213801922
Would you really want the Dominion war to end with a movie that needs to be dumbed down for people who are getting 3 minutes of context?

At the time they made the right call by having the TNG movies be standalone adventures unconnected to the TV shows that were airing. Fans may not have liked it, but you have to think as a producer.

>>213807367
They probably could have got away with starting the Dominion War in a TNG movie. If they could back and redo one thing about the TNG movies I'm sure it would be saving Yesterday's Enterprise to be the plot of the first movie, with Kirk as the captain of the Enterprise-C and Worf as the captain of the Klingon attackers

>>213802756
People always miss the point.
Generations and First Contact were both financially successful movies (only one of them critically, however) and neither were connected to DS9 or VOY. So as a producer you think, should the next movie tie in with a TV show that only gets around 4 million viewers per episode? No, how about another standalone story.

If they showed this in a loop for an hour and a half, they would have easily cleared $600M.