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Thread 213812278

322 posts 208 images /tv/
Anonymous No.213812278 >>213812383 >>213815621 >>213815783 >>213824455 >>213824484 >>213830141 >>213830970
/trek/
the boys
Anonymous No.213812339 >>213812370 >>213812492 >>213812846 >>213812892 >>213815604 >>213815805 >>213816640 >>213822290 >>213825514
Do we like the episode where B'elanna goes to Klingon Hell
Anonymous No.213812370
>>213812339
I'd say that's a notoriously bad episode.
Anonymous No.213812383
>>213812278 (OP)
The raped
Anonymous No.213812492
>>213812339
its interesting but not good. at least they tried a unique thing with established lore
Anonymous No.213812846
>>213812339
it could be worse, but it wasn't good. I can't remember much about it aside from it being like 'shades of grey', but not a clipshow
Anonymous No.213812892
>>213812339
Isn't it more like Klingon Purgatory? Hell is the destination.
Anonymous No.213813034 >>213815622 >>213817301
Anonymous No.213813242
https://youtu.be/X6oUz1v17Uo?t=11
Anonymous No.213814273
Anonymous No.213814642 >>213814892 >>213815025 >>213815640 >>213815742 >>213815760 >>213822994 >>213824712
Do you remember JELLO CUBES?
Anonymous No.213814892
>>213814642
in sims 3 future its called nutrition cubes
Anonymous No.213815025
>>213814642
>if only you knew how bad things really are.
Anonymous No.213815604
>>213812339
Nice set design
Anonymous No.213815615
They should pay us for this
Anonymous No.213815621 >>213815850
>>213812278 (OP)
Anonymous No.213815622
>>213813034
>enjoying delicious hard candies
Anonymous No.213815640
>>213814642
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1kcYdGyG0s

Or there's always Gelatinous Cube Eats Village
Anonymous No.213815678 >>213815745 >>213815825 >>213816738 >>213823048
I'm getting into Star Trek and starting with TOS and I have to ask, why does everyone on the Enterprise act kind of stupid a lot of the time? In the episodes I've seen, they often don't really exercise the necessary caution like they're often dismissing that's something has gone wrong despite strange phenomena happening to them all the time in the past which should make them cautious of things at all times. And the security on the ship is also pretty terrible and they let things slip by them all the time. They should be having full debriefings after every landing mission with all the crew members involved to ensure they're safe and aren't compromised. Does TNG fix these problems?
Anonymous No.213815742 >>213824575
>>213814642
They're referencing more.
Anonymous No.213815745 >>213822906
>>213815678
I don't know what to tell you. If you can't enjoy that world and take it at face value you just might never be able to connect with the material because you're too young. Or too autistic or something.
I just finished season 1 of TNG and have yet to fall in love with it. I want to have a really innocent and corny fandom like the types of people who were late 80s early 90s trekkies, but it's too late for me. I've only seen TOS in bits and pieces but it's a corny 60s show like Batman kind of. Not the same tone as what was trying to be harder scifi later on. Even the movies they did were way more advanced than the original show.1, 2,3,4, and 6 were all solid. The first is a bit draggy though. The fifth was directed by Shatner and fully blows. Nimoy was a successful director across genres. He directed Three Men and a Baby as well as the best Trek movies.
Anonymous No.213815760 >>213815804 >>213815826 >>213816692
>>213814642
Im going to McDonalds instead
Anonymous No.213815783
>>213812278 (OP)
i want to fugg tom paris and harry kim.
Anonymous No.213815804 >>213826038
>>213815760
Back before that stupid fucking corporation thought their burgers were worth $8 instead of $3. lol
That stock is plummeting.
Anonymous No.213815805
>>213812339
I've rarely seen an episode of VOY that I didn't like. B'ellana going to Klingon hell was kino of course.
Anonymous No.213815825
>>213815678
It's a TV show
Anonymous No.213815826 >>213818445
>>213815760
Still not the best Trek burger
Anonymous No.213815850
>>213815621
>bones, you are the real McCoy
my favorite catch phrase of the whole show.
Anonymous No.213816111 >>213816174 >>213816574
Shit am I gonna get banned now? I didn't know you can't post a link to a channel.
Anonymous No.213816174
>>213816111
nigger

maybe
Anonymous No.213816574 >>213816732 >>213816866
>>213816111
You shouldn't be, but with the absolute state of the employees whose title rhymes with Danny, do not expect fair play or competence. In other news, I think I'll finally be able to start participating in the DS9 watch-alongs.
Anonymous No.213816640 >>213816707
>>213812339
I do like the implications of the show that Klingon folklore ain't exactly myth. Which probably means Klingons have killed Gods and fought demons at some point.
Anonymous No.213816692
>>213815760
do pictures exist of this ancient Star Trek tie in merch?
Anonymous No.213816707
>>213816640
gods are already established by that point. if no better example: q
theres no reason klingons cant have their boat
Anonymous No.213816732 >>213816752 >>213818375
>>213816574
They deleted the post but I'm safe I guess. I only posted it because someone on this website posted it and that's how I even knew there was 24 hour Trek or whole scores of websites with channels just showing shows and movies. Maybe the rules changed. I'll be grateful I "got away with it".
Anonymous No.213816738
>>213815678
Hubris really.
They think they are super advanced and evolved so they can't comprehend their own arrogance. They still do it in TNG, but TNG at least had Q to beat them down back into shape.
Anonymous No.213816752
>>213816732
For years
Anonymous No.213816866 >>213817056 >>213817629
>>213816574
Why was this trek-related post deleted, but the dozens of shitposts last thread weren't? Last I checked, criticizing site moderation doesn't violate any board rules.
Anonymous No.213816978 >>213817112 >>213817175 >>213817303
Which way, greenblood?
Anonymous No.213817056
>>213816866
Which post? What's happening?
Anonymous No.213817112 >>213817123
>>213816978
Bravo bravo!
Anonymous No.213817123
>>213817112
Bows
Anonymous No.213817175
>>213816978
Wonder how to do this for TAS vs LD?
Anonymous No.213817301
>>213813034
>You've got a good bedside manner, Spock.
Oh. It's raining.
Anonymous No.213817303
>>213816978
Nice
Anonymous No.213817629 >>213817660 >>213817747 >>213819943 >>213824666
>>213816866
>Last I checked, criticizing site moderation doesn't violate any board rules.
https://4chan.org/rules#global8
Anonymous No.213817660 >>213817687 >>213817701
>>213817629
Isn't it kind of a Wesley move to actually report people for those kinds of things? It's only done by underhanded people resentful over lost arguments. No one likes a narc.
Anonymous No.213817687
>>213817660
Because they are so respectful of our overall intimacy
Anonymous No.213817701
>>213817660
And no one likes Wesley. You are on to something.
Anonymous No.213817747
>>213817629
dude on the left better be a grower, cause he sure as shit aint a shower
Anonymous No.213818067
star trek sex with shran
Anonymous No.213818221 >>213818702
I hope shran is a grower, not a shower
Anonymous No.213818266
>>213809368
Then I guess your investigation will turn up at a dead end... if you don't get devoured first.
Anonymous No.213818286 >>213818338 >>213822334
I'm watching Night Voy s5, in the space of five minutes we've had
>ship loses all power, holodeck is still running but for some reason is still lights
ok it runs on a different power source lights going out are stupid but ok I'll run with it
>reroute power from the holodeck
no you can't fucking do that its been well established
>no can do the holo deck is frozen
ok w/e
>disable safety protocols, uses hologun to shoot intruder
can Voyager go one fucking episode without doing something incredibly stupid? just once can they not be so fucking dumb
Anonymous No.213818338 >>213818400 >>213818409 >>213822334
>>213818286
Just be glad you're not playing the Voyager drinking game!
Anonymous No.213818375
>>213816732
what post was deleted? can you link it in the archive? sounds like it shouldn't be against the rules
Anonymous No.213818400
>>213818338
who says I'm not, heres where it stands atm, only 1/2 way through
Anonymous No.213818409 >>213819242
>>213818338
this bingo card has dupes. how embarrassing they couldn't even come up with enough things
Anonymous No.213818445 >>213819255
>>213815826
What is this?
Anonymous No.213818702
>>213818221
shran is a cute
Anonymous No.213819242 >>213819318
>>213818409
Anonymous No.213819255
>>213818445
3 year old ai
Anonymous No.213819318 >>213819456
>>213819242
sorry...
Anonymous No.213819456 >>213819692
>>213819318
No, you're right. It's not "a joke," it's just a limp-wristed attempt at hating based VOY which is why they had to water down their little bingo card or else the show wouldn't actually be repetitive enough to ever hit a bingo.
Anonymous No.213819692
>>213819456
its just for fun anon don't be so sensitive
Anonymous No.213819943
>>213817629
so that would mean one was actively in the thread, since there's no option to select that infraction in the list
Anonymous No.213820218 >>213820300 >>213820395
Wtf happened with SNW season 3? First 2 seasons werent comlete dogshit like this one.
Anonymous No.213820300
>>213820218
some would argue the first two were dogshit and the third is finally getting good
thankfully I have true sight, and i see that they are yet simply more skinwalker sloppa
Anonymous No.213820359 >>213822695 >>213822757
the one and only time this guy plays a good guy in his entire career and its as a borg, wild
Anonymous No.213820395 >>213820422
>>213820218
>First 2 seasons werent comlete dogshit
Anonymous No.213820422
>>213820395
My life would have been completely different if Gowron was my dad.
Anonymous No.213820468 >>213820516
Anonymous No.213820516
>>213820468
>entdm
>ent
thats not the enterprise that the constellation
Anonymous No.213820990
Anonymous No.213821033 >>213821079 >>213821101 >>213821386
Anonymous No.213821079
>>213821033
Spock wouldn't lie about lying he'd just deflect by saying Vulcans do not lie which is a different lie
Anonymous No.213821101
>>213821033
I say this and do this, it totally works
Anonymous No.213821386 >>213821529 >>213821806
>>213821033
vulcans do not lie
Anonymous No.213821529 >>213821559
>>213821386
IDIC gay logo. looks like a pizza slice poking someone in the eye
Anonymous No.213821559 >>213821802
>>213821529
not everything is about food anon, one day you'll understand that
Anonymous No.213821802 >>213821969
>>213821559
that's correct, not everything is about food. but some things are.
Anonymous No.213821806 >>213821852 >>213821924
>>213821386
>one of the only DS9 episodes with a Vulcan is the baseball one
another disappointment.
Anonymous No.213821852 >>213821993
>>213821806
it could be worse. we got no andorian episodes until ENT
Anonymous No.213821924 >>213821965
>>213821806
one, their is the episode with the vulcan girl quark is after and two this episode is great and three it is literally the only episode that actually has baseball that is the real disappointment, its really not that difficult to go film at a baseball pitch have sisko and jake or w/e playing on the holodeck for an episode opener or sisko teaching kira, at least once wtf?
Anonymous No.213821965 >>213822012
>>213821924
idk the fact that they didn't have any clue how to play was cute and taught the lesson about sportsmanship and whatever
Anonymous No.213821969
>>213821802
its actually a freudian slip on the part of the vulcans they are dedicated to logic and simple things their food is incredibly bland this the ultimate symbol of their logic is actually a unacknowledged deeply repressed truth that they all still crave pizza
Anonymous No.213821993 >>213823386 >>213824928
>>213821852
excuse me?
Anonymous No.213822012
>>213821965
it was fun anon it was a lot of fun and a great way to have a break from the grim war arc
Anonymous No.213822181 >>213822248 >>213822271 >>213822958 >>213823416
>my face after watching short treks
Anonymous No.213822248
>>213822181
why would you do that to yourself?
Anonymous No.213822271
>>213822181
Did you lose a bet?
Anonymous No.213822279 >>213822672
I'm watching an episode of Voyager where the Doctor is fantasizing about touching Janeway's ass
Anonymous No.213822290
>>213812339
For me it was the one where Neelix died
Anonymous No.213822334 >>213822382 >>213822434 >>213822453
>>213818286
>>213818338
Anonymous No.213822382
>>213822334
Delete this
Anonymous No.213822434
>>213822334
Anonymous No.213822453
>>213822334
all this and not a single mention of torpedoes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGxMENwq1k truly a ship of nightmares
Anonymous No.213822672
>>213822279
I hear that.
Anonymous No.213822695 >>213822865 >>213822946
>>213820359
Easily one of my favorite Voy episodes. He facetanked a sphere ffs, although I can’t help but think if it’d been a little better written he could’ve been the borg king, or at least leader of a kindler, gentler borg faction or something
Anonymous No.213822757 >>213822946
>>213820359
He plays a charming Vulcan in ENT.
Anonymous No.213822865
>>213822695
he's just a really cool character to be honest, guys a good actor and uses his normally bad guy energy to just be badass. Maybe if they had some for thought they could've had him survive but use some sort of crazy 29th century transwarp transporter at the end of the ep then he could show up at the end of s7 to help them instead of future janeway and all that stupid shit
>they will attempt to assimilate you
>they will fail
Anonymous No.213822906 >>213822938
>>213815745
TNG sucks until season 3
Anonymous No.213822938 >>213823132
>>213822906
Yes but at least its not boring.
Anonymous No.213822946
>>213822695
if it was ds9 he would've teleported away at the end, then season 6 or 7 he would've returned with that odd seperated collective achookeemoya found leading them on a righteous crusade to liberate borg from the collective
>>213822757
oh right carbon creek, I'm watching ent after I finish voy been a long long time looking forward to that ep, he's the one who starts being a pool shark right?
Anonymous No.213822958
>>213822181
Children of Mars was cute and sad.
Anonymous No.213822994 >>213823008 >>213823025
>>213814642
The new episode was really entertaining. Holodeck episode.
Anonymous No.213823008
>>213822994
>The new episode was really entertaining.
Anonymous No.213823025
>>213822994
Anonymous No.213823048
>>213815678
TNG is even worse at first with the characters trusting obvious villains and ignoring obvious red flags. But it does get better. Star Trek requires heavy suspension of disbelief for many episodes.
Anonymous No.213823132 >>213823246 >>213823324 >>213831764
>>213822938
The only boring TOS episode is the alternative factor.
Anonymous No.213823246
>>213823132
The Shakespeare one is boring if you're not a Shakespeare buff.
Anonymous No.213823324 >>213823340 >>213823471
>>213823132
The Gary Seven episode fucking sucks. There are a lot of S3 episodes which suck.
Anonymous No.213823340
>>213823324
assignment earth is so obvious in what it does that I don't really consider it a real episode
Anonymous No.213823386
>>213821993
that was the episode that introduced them, it's obviously included
Anonymous No.213823416
>>213822181
I understand maybe watching them when they came out, but why would you go out of your way to watch them?
Anonymous No.213823471 >>213823536 >>213827386
>>213823324
I like the Gary 7 episode and I won't apologise for it, it's cool the enterprise runs into another force that is powerful but benevolent
Anonymous No.213823522 >>213823559 >>213823653
The episode where Data is practicing his small-talk with the other guy who won't shut the fuck up at that party is kino.
Anonymous No.213823536
>>213823471
and not some god entity just a different technological power, should've clarified that
Anonymous No.213823559
>>213823522
I guess
Anonymous No.213823585 >>213823625 >>213823682
>marooned on shuttle
>running out of air
>no EV suits for extra oxygen
>patch holes in ship with mashed potatoes

This show is fucking retarded, T'Pol is the only redeeming factor
Anonymous No.213823625 >>213823684 >>213824581
>>213823585
>>patch holes in ship with mashed potatoes
>This show is fucking retarded
and that's what makes it great
Anonymous No.213823653 >>213823756
>>213823522
>When you finally meet someone with the same type of autism you have
And I love how the rest of the cast was like "It's hard enough to get one of them to stop babbling!"
Anonymous No.213823682 >>213824086
>>213823585
ENT is retarded and that's why Archer is the perfect captain for the show
Anonymous No.213823684 >>213825508
>>213823625
you can do something like this in farscape because they are alien space potatoes and it would be awesome, you can't do it in star trek because its fucking stupid
Anonymous No.213823756 >>213823863
>>213823653
you've never just had the instant super fast conversation where you aren't talking over each other or finishes each others sentences you just both know exactly what the toerh person is saying so no point wasting time thing going with a random stranger because you both get it and your brain just works like that? its rare but always good
Anonymous No.213823863 >>213824013 >>213824322
>>213823756
>and then they kiss
Anonymous No.213824013
>>213823863
well no, only a woman or a fag would think that, its just about having a good conversation
Anonymous No.213824086 >>213824251
>>213823682
He's the mr magoo of starfleet captains
Anonymous No.213824251
>>213824086
What is this anime cliche doing in my Star Trek?
Anonymous No.213824322 >>213824431 >>213824868
>>213823863
there was literally no reason for Aquiel to be non-human
I hate when they create federation species out of thin air for one episode just to drop them forever
she should have been a human

SHOEHORNED diversity this is
Anonymous No.213824431 >>213824530
>>213824322
the reason is for them is to not be human, thats what so so many current year shit gets wrong, its a big galaxy and a big federation, if you can have more species then do it, every time
Anonymous No.213824455
>>213812278 (OP)
Star Trek is for children.
Anonymous No.213824484
>>213812278 (OP)
Star Trek is for everyone
Anonymous No.213824530 >>213824695
>>213824431
This is one benefit of being animated. You can have whatever designs you want and they won't clash with each other or go over budget. It's the one thing Mass Effect gets better than Star Trek: more biodiversity.
Anonymous No.213824575
>>213815742
Watermelon, cantaloupe, and pineapple chunks... Some with artificial colors.
Anonymous No.213824581 >>213824752
>>213823625
>patching holes with mashed potatoes
works better than corned beef and cabbage
Anonymous No.213824666 >>213824733
>>213817629
Anonymous No.213824695 >>213824827
>>213824530
shame everything about animated proved to be awful trash, I am more then happy with good prosthetics even in TOS they had stellar prosthetics all of star trek they had amazing makeup work that also allowed actors to act. I don't give a single fuck if cartoons can make a 20 tentacled monster, I care about the species and much more important the character being presented. You can just give them purple eyes or you can give them claws and four legs, or anything in-between, if the story doesn't work then it falls flat. Thats what matters.
Anonymous No.213824712 >>213824724 >>213824921
>>213814642
Why aren't they eating the delicious replicator food?
Anonymous No.213824724
>>213824712
they only have synthesizers in TOS not replicators
Anonymous No.213824733 >>213826325
>>213824666
In the future no one cares about the size of your pp Satan. Well, almost no one
Anonymous No.213824752 >>213824766
>>213824581
he never used either, thats one of the many reasons EnT is stupid not as stupid as nutrek but still dumb
Anonymous No.213824766 >>213824786
>>213824752
he did in fact use a pallet of Bringoidian boxty as ballast to right the ship when it went off balance and got a little slainte
Anonymous No.213824786
>>213824766
no he didn't
Anonymous No.213824827 >>213824887 >>213824928 >>213824953 >>213824959
>>213824695
i will not pass up this opportunity to complain about Enterprise Andorians again but if you look back at the original TOS makeup they actually shaded them in a nuanced way. Shras had like purple around his eyes and in the hollows of his cheeks making him look all creepy and gaunt and sinister. In Ent they literally just fucking BLASTED them with NEON BLUE and called it a day so facial features barely read. I noticed sometimes they had JC put some blue shit in his mouth so the pink wouldn't stand out but overall there was a lack of attention to detail.
Anonymous No.213824866 >>213824884
Oh hey guys, I hear you’re taking about freight and freight distribution on ships. I know a little about that having grown up on a freighter. I’m not sure if I’ve mentioned that before but, yeah, a freighter. I grew up on one. A freighter that is. Hit me up for more freight chat, only $4.99 a minute
Anonymous No.213824868 >>213824947
>>213824322
I've been shoehorned for some time now.
Anonymous No.213824884 >>213824911
>>213824866
>only $4.99 a minute
is that the least expensive freight, i mean rate?
Anonymous No.213824887 >>213824893
>>213824827
the remote controlled antennae are kino though
Anonymous No.213824893
>>213824887
I know, they're so freaking adorable it almost makes up for it
Anonymous No.213824911
>>213824884
*Subspace surcharges may apply
Anonymous No.213824921
>>213824712
The green ones are honeydew melon.
Anonymous No.213824928 >>213824954
>>213824827
I am well aware, as you my not be aware that I was the one who started posting the two most used andorian images in /trek/ here is one >>213821993
here is the other (pic related) I am not the shran anon, although I do appreciate the articulated antenna they created for ENT very clever, remote controlled little robots. That is still head and shoulders above current year shit.
Anonymous No.213824947 >>213825194
>>213824868
w/e this is its not welcome don't post your weird yt shit here.
Anonymous No.213824953 >>213827506
>>213824827
>bitches about the blue Andorians
>no mention of the albino ones
Thats racism innit
Anonymous No.213824954 >>213825177
>>213824928
star trek just the tip with thelev
Anonymous No.213824959 >>213825064
>>213824827
Complaining about how the andorians look in enterprise is crazy. They look fine and it’s good makeup for recurring characters. The makeup in Enterprise is not one of the shows problem. Jeffery Combs is an expressive actor and he makes Shran come to life as he does with all of his other appearances. I like the original look of them in TOS, but the I say again they look good in Enterprise. If anything I’d say their dumb leather uniforms are the worst part about them. Should’ve been some sick ass chain mail.
Anonymous No.213824994 >>213825098
And then there's whatever the fuck this is
Anonymous No.213825006 >>213825058 >>213825073
I hereby nominate First Contact as a serious contender for the stupidest Star Trek movie ever award.
Anonymous No.213825058
>>213825006
>Nemesis
>Beyond
>Section 31
All stupider
Anonymous No.213825064 >>213825138
>>213824959
i didn't say it was one of the show's problem I pointed out how it could be better you illiterate doink. the commando outfits are fine because they fit their occupation or whatever but Shran's civvie outfit was fucking disgusting looking and yeah, it should have had chainmail so they fumbled that too. it's not crazy to complain when I've seen Journey to Babel like 20 times and it's one of my favorite episodes which made me even give a fuck about Andorians in the first place. all I mentioned was the makeup, calm down.
Anonymous No.213825073
>>213825006
>nemesis
Anonymous No.213825098
>>213824994
those antennae are pretty phallic desu...rigid....
Anonymous No.213825128 >>213825200
>Damn it, Picard, you and your sheer FUCKING hubris
>Classic Jean-Luc, always acting like a FUCKING loose cannon maverick renegade
>Why are you always so FUCKING arrogant, huh?
>Why can't you be more calm and reserved, like Kirk?
>Just once I wish you'd use FUCKING diplomacy to solve conflicts instead of blowing up half the FUCKING galaxy
>Goddamn it, Picard, I know Data was your dearest and closest friend and you definitely did not treat him like a household appliance
>But I've got a pile of dead bodies on Mars, millions of bars of latinum's worth of property damage, and the Romulan delegation THIS FAR UP MY ASS
>That's it, you're off the FUCKING case, Picard
>Turn in your badge and your phaser
>...AND YOUR OTHER PHASER
Anonymous No.213825138
>>213825064
Well I disagree.
>calm down
I will not.
Anonymous No.213825177
>>213824954
fucking kek
Anonymous No.213825194 >>213825431
>>213824947
Crazy how that got shoehorned in there, isn't it?
Anonymous No.213825200 >>213825244 >>213825278
>>213825128
What was her fucking problem?
Anonymous No.213825244
>>213825200
she was told she'd be in a star trek show and then saw the script
Anonymous No.213825278 >>213825305
>>213825200
biblically accurate flag officer
Anonymous No.213825305 >>213825391
>>213825278
Imagine serving under her when she was a captain. Imagine
Anonymous No.213825391 >>213825441
>>213825305
Not the same actress. The one from Picard was the frontwoman of a band called Vulcan Death Grip, and later one called Bongwater, and that tells you everything you need to know about the casting decisions of Star Trek Pisscard.
Anonymous No.213825419 >>213825442 >>213825452
Weyoun status?
Anonymous No.213825431
>>213825194
This is what happens when you're half naked in the decontamination chamber with T'Pol.
Anonymous No.213825441
>>213825391
Lol, I know it’s not the same actress, I was just going for the same psycho old lady vibe. Now let us never speak of the show in question ever again
Anonymous No.213825442
>>213825419
joyful
Anonymous No.213825452
>>213825419
entertained
Anonymous No.213825508 >>213825909
>>213823684
The holes were tiny enough so mashed potatoes worked fine.
Anonymous No.213825514
>>213812339
Only if you imagine it's actually a metaphor for Voyager itself.
Anonymous No.213825561 >>213825617 >>213825774 >>213826071 >>213826518
While we're tangentially on the subject, what went so wrong?
Pros
>the jeep is actually pretty cool
>Tom Hardy (4u) is doing the best he can with what he's given
>the Enterprise-E is sexy as always
>the effects still hold up mostly
>the bad guys firing at the bridge and blowing a hole in it was shocking at the time, as was the ship-to-ship collision
Cons
>none of the actors look like they want to be there, even Patrick is done with it all
>the script is jam packed with all of the usual tired cliches (we're the only ship in range, the bad guy has a superweapon, his motivations are confusing, he wants to go after Earth just because)
>dialogue is cringey at times but not like Insurrection boob jokes
>the pacing is slow as hell in the first half
>there's just a depressing atmosphere throughout the entire thing
>any TNG character who's not Picard or Data gets shafted (they filmed a lot of extra scenes but they were cut because honestly the pacing was already fucked as it was)
>Brent Spiner needs to fuck off forever if he's not gonna play Data. Stop playing other characters god damn.
>the action scenes are competently directed but everything else looks more like a TV episode than the previous films do
>I don't know where most of the budget went but a lot of the sets look really small and lame
Anonymous No.213825617 >>213825862 >>213826345
>>213825561
its actually very simple the director didn't know anything about star trek, didn't want to and was just making a generic action movie thats why its so disjointed, the studio shut out berman and just made generic action trash, which of course they would do again years later with 09
Anonymous No.213825774
>>213825561
Another thing I forgot to add is that in Insurrection during the battle scene the bridge gets properly trashed. The lights get knocked out, there's smoke everywhere. In Nemesis, despite having a hole blown in the bridge with crew members flying out, there's only a bit of debris scattered and occasional sparks going off from consoles. For an action director, Stuart Baird didn't really know what he was doing.
Anonymous No.213825862 >>213825879 >>213826071
>>213825617
It's too bad because even though Insurrection was pretty stupid, with Jonathan Frakes at the helm it still felt cohesive and the TNG actors respect him so much that they all give him their best.
Anonymous No.213825879
>>213825862
aye
Anonymous No.213825909 >>213831923
>>213825508
ok tucker, sure thing
Anonymous No.213826038
>>213815804
>That stock is plummeting.
Anonymous No.213826071 >>213826221 >>213829986
>>213825561
>>213825862
All in all with Nemesis you really come out with the impression that it was only made out of contractual obligation. Which is funny because it took them four years since the last movie to actually film it. Why was there such a long gap?
Anonymous No.213826221
>>213826071
>Filming on Star Trek Nemesis began on 28 November 2001 and wrapped on 8 March 2002
Curious. You'd think Paramount would've wanted another movie right away for release in 2000 (Generations was 94, First Contact was 96, Insurrection was 98)
Anonymous No.213826325
>>213824733
Riker could have lied and said like β€œThe average human male’s is only three inches. What’s an inch? Don’t worry about it.”
Anonymous No.213826345 >>213826733
>>213825617
People really underestimate how Rick Berman tried hard to keep Star Trek held together.
The man even admits his faults. He's publicly trashed Nemesis; he's apologized for the ENT finale.
You don't get that with any of these modern producers. They just double down and act as if it's the audience who are at fault.
Anonymous No.213826518 >>213826615
>>213825561
> >Brent Spiner needs to fuck off forever if he's not gonna play Data. Stop playing other characters god damn.
Law of diminishing returns is undefeated. Do something once or twice and it’s novel and funny. Anything after three times and you outstay your welcome.
Anonymous No.213826587 >>213826690 >>213826761 >>213832026
Why am I so weak to Trill women?
Anonymous No.213826615 >>213826714
>>213826518
I guess it was fine when he played Soong's ancestor in ENT.
But since then he's played several Soongs who are all exactly the same and it's really gotten old.
Anonymous No.213826690 >>213826784 >>213827164
>>213826587
It's like leopard print but on your face. Looks kinda shitty in that pic though.

Do Dax's spots run down to her butt I don't remember if we saw her naked on the show.
Anonymous No.213826714
>>213826615
It's kind of funny how multiple members of the Soong lineage exist all across the timeline and they all have the same nose.
Anonymous No.213826733
>>213826345
Because he's completely out of the business and it doesn't hurt him to be honest. His interviews never really show that he acknowledges being wrong, so much as he missed the mark. In any case he completely ignores a lot of the shady shit he did during the production that earned him the hate of the Fandom and staff.

Besides, I wouldn't really celebrate Rick Berman. He was an errand boy for the higher ups and saw what worked, which led to a decade of stagnation. He opposed everything good about the shows he ran, and had to be worked over just to get what we got. It's no fucking accident that Voyager and Enterprise can be the blandest, safest shows, especially in their early runs.
Anonymous No.213826761 >>213826823 >>213826902
>>213826587
That's not a woman, that's a copy/pasted female shape with dots drawn on the face of its canned expression (identical to other faces used on the show)
Anonymous No.213826784
>>213826690
>Looks kinda shitty in that pic though.
well of course it does, it's shitty canadian flash animation
Anonymous No.213826823 >>213826853 >>213826938
>>213826761
Technically speaking, all the live-action images of real world females posted here are nothing but an arrangement of pixels on a screen. You jerk off to pixels you fucking weirdo
Anonymous No.213826849 >>213827017
>this animated character is my waifu!!!
Anonymous No.213826853 >>213826892
>>213826823
Almost like you're overlooking a key difference there, anon. Well, a few key differences. I'll let you figure it out.
Anonymous No.213826892 >>213826921 >>213827010
>>213826853
I mean technically technically you're jerking off to an illusion known as "vision" created by your brain. If someone (not me) chooses to think a cartoon is sexy, it just means their imagination is more vivid than yours
Anonymous No.213826902 >>213826938
>>213826761
Shut up Data
Anonymous No.213826921 >>213826977
>>213826892
Sure, anon. It's totally normal and people definitely wouldn't laugh at you in real life if you admitted it to them.
Anonymous No.213826938 >>213827419
>>213826902
>>213826823
Stop jerking off to CalArts stick figures.
Anonymous No.213826977 >>213827021
>>213826921
Good job completely dodging my statement and strawmanning me. Also using a holographically projected pseudo person as your response image. How ironic. Enjoy your pixelated matrix women.
Anonymous No.213827010 >>213827070
>>213826892
Vision is an objective biological process of your eyeballs capturing reflected light, what your brain and penis think of the information received is the subjective part.
Anonymous No.213827017
>>213826849
It's easy to call Seth lazy but how many non-Star Trek projects has Patrick Stewart returned as Picard for?
Anonymous No.213827021 >>213827134
>>213826977
You jerk off to Simpsons porn. That's not normal and I don't care how much you cope about
>welll ackshually it's uh your brain's perception of light and uh arguable it's also not real!
Everybody knows you're so full of shit your eyes are brown when you start talking like this.
Anonymous No.213827070
>>213827010
That's as far as we know. We may as well be brains in jars responding to simulated stimuli. If some loser gets neuron activation from sexy cartoon spots it's just his wiring.
Also I refer the courtroom to the sexy cat lady from TAS. Deliberately given a sexy shape and a sexy voice.
Also I refer the courtroom to Betty Boop and "Tijuana Bibles" (nsfw).
Literally generations and generations of drawn eroticism.
Arguing against this is arguing against male nature. End of discussion.
Anonymous No.213827098 >>213827164 >>213827168
>he's trying so hard to sell a bunch of flash animated circles (not even hand drawn) as being "erotic"
Anonymous No.213827134 >>213827160
>>213827021
On top of the argument referring to Betty Boop and the literal decades or centuries of drawn eroticism, you have erotic writing. You see absolutely nothing. Just your minds eye imagining what words are describing to you. And this is the most popular form of eroticism in history. Porn doesn't even come close.
YOU jerk off to some poor girl who had to sell her body to a business that's basically sex slavery. Don't become the moral police you stupid faggot.
Anonymous No.213827160
>>213827134
Simpsons
porn

I really don't need to say more.
Anonymous No.213827164 >>213827194 >>213827271
>>213827098
If we're gonna get pedantic it's just your brain filling in the gaps and thinking of Dax (objectively sexy) when you look at the abstract cartoon trill lady. They made it look like her for this purpose and it worked.

Now I need this question >>213826690 answered.
Anonymous No.213827168
>>213827098
Is a typed word less of a word than a handwritten one?
>Winning this argument hard so thanks for playing numbskulls.
Anonymous No.213827194 >>213827240 >>213827285
>>213827164
According to Dax from one episode, she says the spots do indeed go all the way down.
Anonymous No.213827240 >>213827298
>>213827194
based thank you now I can fap more accurately
Anonymous No.213827271 >>213833154
>>213827164
Well I mean I wasn't the one who originally got pedantic. Someone here has a giant bug up his ass (Does the lady doth protest a little too much?) about cartoon women. A different anon mentioned that the cartoon Trill was sexy. I tend to agree. And it's not just about the pure 2 dimensional shapes it's about the voice actress etc etc etc all the intangible little things of a fictional character in general. I'm just defending the concept of a cartoon being sexy.
Heavy Metal for example features a sexy cartoon lady. How about the ladies on the truck flaps??! Those are literally just silhouettes and they make money selling them.
Basically its absurd to just type "Simpsons porn" and think you've somehow won an argument. The anti-cartoon anon began the pedantic argument because of their seething rage and repressed natures. I'm just having a little argument practice at putting him in his fucking place.
Anonymous No.213827285
>>213827194
My brain just invented the word "spussy" and now the rest of the thread has to read it too.
Anonymous No.213827298
>>213827240
Imagination is an amazing thing. You're welcome?
Anonymous No.213827386
>>213823471
Same, fuck the haters. An actual Gary 7 show would've been more fun than most of TOS season 3 anyway.
Anonymous No.213827419
>>213826938
Anonymous No.213827448 >>213827483 >>213827510
>he doesn't know he's being deliberately baited into typing up these giant novel-length posts defending retarded canadian flash animated cartoons
Anonymous No.213827465
Sex with Romulettes
Anonymous No.213827483 >>213827517
>>213827448
Alright enjoy the rest of your life Mr Brain in a Jar.
Anonymous No.213827506 >>213830081
>>213824953
i actually wrote a whole essay about why I hate them in particular. it's in the archives if you wanna look it up
Anonymous No.213827510 >>213827564
>>213827448
If those were novel length posts I feel so incredibly sorry for your ant-like attention span. That's all. I win.
Anonymous No.213827517
>>213827483
I will, thanks
Anonymous No.213827564
>>213827510
Novels come in many different lengths. Short novels are referred to as novellas.
Anonymous No.213827627
Anonymous No.213827769 >>213827782 >>213827790 >>213827826 >>213827847
Watchalong bros....it's a very crap episode tonight but we will get through it.

>The Storyteller

i remember being soooo bored but maybe there's some good points I missed we'll see
Anonymous No.213827782
>>213827769
hard times brother
Anonymous No.213827790 >>213827826
>>213827769
It's the first O'Brien/Bashir broship episode.
Anonymous No.213827826
>>213827769
>>213827790
Oh wait, I remember this episode

This is the one where O'Brien talks shit to a cloud. I remember enjoying it.
Anonymous No.213827847
>>213827769
Ah another prime example of Bajorans being insane retards. It's a good Miles/Julian episode anyway imo
Anonymous No.213828806 >>213829049
>page 10
bump
Anonymous No.213829049
>>213828806
Based bumpfriend
Anonymous No.213829063
a week after 7 of 9 assumed her first assignment as captain she got the ship captured and destroyed and her crew enslaved to a race that only uses its salves for depraved sex acts and went down in history as the most disappointing and useless captain to ever take the helm
Anonymous No.213829450 >>213830237 >>213830840
Anonymous No.213829986 >>213830887
>>213826071
>Dr. Crusher be like
Anonymous No.213830077
Pulaski > Crusher
Unless sex
Anonymous No.213830081 >>213830169
>>213827506
I read it several threads back and I generally agreed, except for the sex with Shran part. I think he’s great, don’t get me wrong, but I’ve got blue pits to lick first
Anonymous No.213830141
>>213812278 (OP)
They're NOTHING without bones. NOTHING.
Anonymous No.213830169
>>213830081
>the sex with Shran part
that wasn't in the essay!
Anonymous No.213830197 >>213830282
Why doesn't the Federation speak French?
Anonymous No.213830237 >>213830577 >>213831176
>>213829450
Not bad. Force of Nature lowers the average for me as it’s thinly veiled climate change propaganda for its own sake, but overall an ok lineup. O’Brien as an unwilling shamanistic weather priest is great and I’ll not be convinced otherwise
Anonymous No.213830282 >>213830710
>>213830197
because English is the best language
Anonymous No.213830577 >>213830734
>>213830237
not just tos but i love how shlocky so many of the combat scenes are. 1 good punch takes someone out, or flipping them over. even klingons, they did it to worf a million times
Anonymous No.213830710 >>213830975
>>213830282
Why American English? Γ‰chec et mat, AmΓ©ricain.
Don’t read it all in one place, kid No.213830731
Star Trekking is not communist. Earth becomes the third world, with small unature preserves
Anonymous No.213830734 >>213830917
>>213830577
Me too. The 60s were great for that campy sort of shit. Definite Batman vibes
Anonymous No.213830775 >>213830908 >>213830918
It's Gene Roddenberry's 104th birthday today lads.
Anonymous No.213830840 >>213831026
>>213829450
>TNG: Force of Nature
DOGSHIT episode. Warp speed is synonymous with climate change so there's a speed limit of Warp 5 but then let's never acknowledge this ever again. Retarded
>DS9: The Story Teller
DOGSHIT episode. Miles O'Brien acidentally becomes a pope for some primitive Bajorans on some Bajoran moon. Boring as anything. That's DS9 S1 for you.
>Day of the Dove
now we're talking kino.
Anonymous No.213830887
>>213829986
She was still hot in Generations (1994). So hot that they made that joke with Lursa and B'etor over how beautiful she is when they were like "ergh human females are disgusitng" when looking through Geordi's visor's spycam.
People age lightning fast in their 40s I guess.
Anonymous No.213830908
>>213830775
They don't like to admit it but Harvey Weinstein was Roddenberry's true successor.
Anonymous No.213830917 >>213831003
>>213830734
i just caught the very first 2 parter of 60s batman like a week ago, it was great. absolute 60s slop.
https://youtu.be/kK4H-LkrQjQ

i think everyone knows it from these clips but the brass they used especially for the sounds effects is lovely
Anonymous No.213830918 >>213830946
>>213830775
He’s dead anon
Anonymous No.213830946 >>213830997 >>213831007
>>213830918
who the fuck calls their child Nana?
Anonymous No.213830970 >>213831011 >>213831031
>>213812278 (OP)
1) Progress
2) Emissary
3 In the Hands of the prophets

Top three DS9 S1 episodes. Duet is overrated, as all holocaust parables are, because critics are largely jews themselves.
Anonymous No.213830975
>>213830710
because consuming American media is why and how most non native speakers learn.
Anonymous No.213830997 >>213831097
>>213830946
Her mom’s name was Nenette. French people are weird
Anonymous No.213831003
>>213830917
and its funny to see other shows copy the intro somewhat. powerpuff girls did it https://youtu.be/PlpUABjD_p0?t=33
Anonymous No.213831007
>>213830946
I had a friend named Nana once. she was from some middle east country though and even then it was a nickname
Anonymous No.213831011 >>213831090
>>213830970
>no Captive Pursuit
holy cringe
Anonymous No.213831026
>>213830840
Storyteller is a fun episode. Far from dogshit. It's interesting to see Bashir and obrien interact before they became buds.

You are correct about day of the dove being a pretty decent episode by s3 star trek standards. And force of nature is so hilariously dogshit even the shows own writers did their best to handwave it away at warp speed.
Anonymous No.213831031 >>213831153
>>213830970
it's not overrated. the reason it's rated so high is Harris Yulin's performance and its entirely deserved
Anonymous No.213831090 >>213831129
>>213831011
4) move along home
5) captive pursuit

It makes top 5 for me but not top 3.
Anonymous No.213831097 >>213832628
>>213830997
she's French?
and Odo was French (literally Napoleon's great great great nephew)
and Jadzia's part French

very French show
Anonymous No.213831129 >>213831157 >>213831232 >>213831271
>>213831090
uh IMDB says Move Along Home is S1's worst episode
and they are the experts

I was confused why Quark gave a shit about all their lives when he was still in his selfish anti-federation prick era
Anonymous No.213831153
>>213831031
The guest star of that episode was nothing special.
Anonymous No.213831157 >>213831183
>>213831129
being selfish doesn't mean you're just fine with being responsible for the deaths of of innocent people you fucking psychopath
Anonymous No.213831176
>>213830237
Force of Nature suffers from the same ham- handedness of Symbiosis where the episode ends with Picard straight telling the viewer what morals to have.
Anonymous No.213831183 >>213831229 >>213831232
>>213831157
It's violating established RACIAL LORE
Anonymous No.213831229
>>213831183
the people who run the station being FUCKING DEAD BECAUSE OF YOU would be bad for business. so, no.
Anonymous No.213831232
>>213831129
>>213831183
nah Quark is a small time hood, not a killer

this is explained repeatedly as to why he doesn't own a moon like his cousin the weapons dealer, because he's got scruples!
Anonymous No.213831271 >>213831464
>>213831129
Lol

Quark always had a heart of gold buried beneath a mountain of avarice. He sold supplies to the bajorians at almost wholesale prices
Anonymous No.213831464 >>213832175
>>213831271
>Quark always had a heart of gold
which is worthless
Anonymous No.213831471 >>213831631 >>213831885
>Worst TOS ep
The Alternative Factor (S1E27)
>Worst TNG ep
Shades of Grey (S2E22)
>Worst DS9 ep
Sanctuary (S2E10)
Anonymous No.213831610 >>213831779 >>213831801
the worst DS9 episode is Meridian. we all agreed.
Anonymous No.213831631
>>213831471
Shades of Grey, Long Ladder, and Samaritan Snare all belong in the Star Trek hall of shame. Truly the bottom of the barrel. You can’t even say β€œWell, I saw what they were going for.” or β€œThere’s a good episode in there somewhere!” They’re what happens when you take an awful idea and execute it horribly.
Anonymous No.213831764
>>213823132
The Alternative Factor is certified schizo kino
Anonymous No.213831779
>>213831610
It's like "The Masterpiece Society" but worse
Anonymous No.213831801
>>213831610
Yes but I can't help but laugh at the B plot
>why is Quark trying to take our picture?
Anonymous No.213831807 >>213831997
Isn't it funny that the Maquis were written into DS9 to help Voyager
But DS9 has good Maquis episodes while VOY has none?
Anonymous No.213831885 >>213831928
>>213831471
Worst of DS9 has to be The Muse
Anonymous No.213831923 >>213832140
>>213825909
Don't you realize that as the soft, flexible mashed potatoes were sucked into the tiny holes made by the miniature singularities, it caused them to freeze, and turn them as hard as aluminum or steel?
Only someone who doesn't understand physics at all would think that the taters would just be sucked out completely.
Anonymous No.213831928
>>213831885
oof that one is really bad. but I still can't get over how stupid and boring the A plot of Meridian is it's like something they should have known better than to ever even try to do but they did it anyway.
Anonymous No.213831997 >>213832070 >>213832145
>>213831807
What's really funny is that DS9 is Star Trek but they don't go anywhere while Voyager explores another 1/4 of the galaxy
Anonymous No.213832026
>>213826587
Only children are enamored of cartoons.
Anonymous No.213832070
>>213831997
Quality over quantity...of light years :)
Anonymous No.213832140
>>213831923
>it caused them to freeze, and turn them as hard as aluminum or steel?
show me the phase diagram and triple point of type IV resistant starch
Anonymous No.213832145 >>213832221 >>213832526
>>213831997
DS9ers went places. Like the Blight planet and....the Great Link planet and....a planet where all their descendants lived and then they erased them from existence!
Anonymous No.213832175
>>213831464
Lol!
Anonymous No.213832178 >>213832303
Re: Nu-Trek
I somewhat envy the new star wars installments, in that the uncreative people in charge of that franchise have the tendency to pick out random bits of world building from the original trilogy('the clone wars') and expand that into new material - good or bad.
While the nu trek people can't fathom doing anything but TOS prequels.
Why not the Tzenkathi conflict? The romulan war?
Anonymous No.213832202
Anonymous No.213832221 >>213832344 >>213832407
>>213832145
I love Children of Time
An entire planet of O'Briens fills my heart with joy
Anonymous No.213832303
>>213832178
You ask a lot of questions as a way of arguing like a homosexual and say nu like a homosexual.
Anonymous No.213832344 >>213832484
>>213832221
do you think they were right to sacrifice themselves? i was kinda surprised at the decision it's like they really all just succumbed to sentimentality it was kinda gay and cringe or something idk
Anonymous No.213832407
>>213832221
Imagine the suffering
Anonymous No.213832484 >>213832517
>>213832344
Your current family vs your possible future descendants? That's a tough choice.
I think their choice made sense for them.
Anonymous No.213832517
>>213832484
O'Brien giving up on his real and actual wife and baby daughter for these strangers that supposedly carry his DNA was insane to me
Anonymous No.213832526 >>213832575
>>213832145
Even in the 90’s people were screaming β€œNOT REAL TREK” because there was no exploration, no Gene Roddenberry, and the tone was too gritty. Cue the magazine article of people bitching about TNG in 1988.
Anonymous No.213832575
>>213832526
>even in the 90s people were wrong and retarded
you...don't...say.....
Anonymous No.213832606
Anonymous No.213832615
Frankly if the colony continued to exist, they would all become inbred eventually
Anonymous No.213832628
>>213831097
Hence why it STINKS!
Anonymous No.213832830 >>213832845
DS9 did explore new worlds and new civilizations it's just that they weren't LITERALLY on a ship flying around seeking it out so you have to be extremely obese and fucking stupid to think that DS9 isn't real trek just because of that. I hate nutrek as much as anyone else but I actually do have an open mind to know if something is real trek or not based on what it is rather than if it hits arbitrary check boxes based on the fucking verbatim text of the opening of TOS. SNW has people fucking around on a ship and that shit is NOT trek so it just proves those old DS9 haters as being retards who cannot think critically.
Anonymous No.213832845 >>213832868
>>213832830
Anyone who says DS9 is "nu-trek" is just being disingenuous. It still sucks though
Anonymous No.213832868 >>213833101
>>213832845
DS9 is something you can love or hate but it IS real Star Trek
Anonymous No.213833101 >>213833230 >>213833295 >>213833352 >>213833407
>>213832868
They're all real Star Trek. I remember the backlash to DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise. They all had merits and they were all overblown. You guys unironically enjoy Voyager and Enterprise; when I went back an admitted to my old clique of trekkies that Enterprise wasn't that bad I was practically shunned.

There's gonna be kids who love the new shit too. Prodigy, Lower Decks, I'm sure some crazy DISCO fans will force their kids to watch it and at least one will like it. You can't stop it. They'll post here with nostalgia while we all wither away and become frail.
Anonymous No.213833154
>>213827271
You're not 'putting anyone in place', everyone's laughing at you for jerking it to calarts toons. You are a dime a dozen edgy weirdo sat firmly at the peak of mount stupid.
Anonymous No.213833230 >>213833643
>>213833101
i am someone who has only been really into Star Trek for the past couple of years. i never watched it as a kid. i have no nostalgia associated with it. the new stuff is simply, too fucking dissimilar to anything anyone who likes Star Trek because they watched anything before 2005 first would like. it is not an age thing. nutrek is a totally different product and actual trek is timeless and can appeal to anyone of any age. even if people watched nutrek as kids and enjoyed it, if they watch actual trek even they would recognize it's different. because it IS.
Anonymous No.213833295 >>213833643
>>213833101
>DISCO
It's called STD
Anonymous No.213833352 >>213833389 >>213833580 >>213833643
>>213833101
The new shows will age like day old dogshit. They will not be remembered
Anonymous No.213833389
>>213833352
>day old dogshit
I have two dogs and I'll have you know their shits last a long time.
Anonymous No.213833407 >>213833643
>>213833101
>disco
shill spotted
Anonymous No.213833538
>>213833529
>>213833529
>>213833529
new
Anonymous No.213833580
>>213833352
That applies to all fucking streamslop. How well will Stranger Things or Rings of Power age in 10 years? Game of Thrones is already aging badly because it started or popularized a bunch of obnoxious trends that still haunt the landscape.
Anonymous No.213833643 >>213833673 >>213834155 >>213834306
>>213833230
>>213833295
>>213833352
>>213833407
You can go to places like TrekBBS or usenet and check the archives and see your forerunners say the same shit about the stuff you like.

The things that seem objective and obvious to you really aren't. You have to make peace with that one day or you'll just be that forty year old basement dweller arguing about Link's hair color or which Sonic lore is correct.
Anonymous No.213833673
>>213833643
>you can look into the past and see that literal retards existed back then too
wow amazing. any other words of wisdom to impart, grandpa?
Anonymous No.213834155
>>213833643
trekbbs hates tng/ds9/voy/ent and loves nutrek though whats your point nigger
Anonymous No.213834306
>>213833643
tl;dr shiiilllll