Thread 213842358

>>213842358 (OP)
A fast 2h radicalization sesh. Youll start to want to murder people who work and enable factory farming.

>>213842432
>Youll start to want to murder people who work and enable factory farming.
lol grow up

Humans are so good for the planet we create closed food loops for all food types, called agriculture. Regardless of what you eat, things die and microhabitats are lost. One way or another your survival is based on eating, so eat what makes you feel healthy and happy.

That being said, they don't make their arguments in good faith, because this is a vegan propaganda film. You will likely have heard the arguments before, and we don't know you so can't say how you react to animal cruelty scenes or descriptions. You could cook a burger instead.

1. Harming or killing animals, needlessly, is wrong
2. We don’t have to eat animals to survive since non-animal alternatives and supplements exist and are easily accessible
3. Because we don’t need to eat animals to survive we are killing and harming them needlessly
4. Therefore eating animals is wrong
5. Go vegan

>>213842358 (OP)
kino of the highest order of magnitude, if you don't pop at least a semi when watching it then you're not really a man

>>213842502
This is true. Continue to eat leaves and berries. You will be strong and healthy. I will dispose of the meat for you.

>>213842502
>Therefore eating animals is wrong
Should say eating animal products

get ready to learn to cook tofu. I'm vegan, btw

https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?si=yJFH_6kjHK3yd6jM
Damn... they just crush the chicks to death. Brutal

>>213842520
Can confirm this is true, my girlfriend didn't get hard at all when we watched it and she's not a man.

>>213842502
2 is wishful thinking.
There are many places in the world where it is simply untrue, but even if it were, domesticated animals main and basically only reason to exist is to be consumed.
Humans have thousands of years of debt to those animals. We owe it to them to continue and be thankful for them.
Who are you to throw away the symbiotic relationship we have with some of our closest allies?

>>213842815
Animals are not our closest allies. They didn't help hit Iran. They didn't put pager bombs in some peoples pockets. They've never even been to new yor, let alone can fly a plane.

>>213842815
Symbiotic relationship where we torture them and keep them in their own waste in very confined cages?

>>213842842
Israelis are human, not an ally of humans.
>>213842867
Billions would starve without them, and there would not be billions of domesticated animals without our continued support of their survival. They could have just as easily ended up like other species that were entirely wiped out without our help.
That is symbiotic, yes.

>>213843005
Speak carefully goy unless you want your bloodline to end up in one of these farms

It will convert you to hunting and fishing.

>>213842358 (OP)
Anyone who watches this and continues to watch after seeing cruelty isn't decent.

Do not let horror into your system. You know it's wrong. You don't need more of it to maintain your position agaisnt it.

Be vegan by choice, not because you are a mob scapegoating farmers.

Vegan products that are better for you, cheaper, and taste better than meat alternatives: Would solve the issue.

People don't switch because the alternative is deficient and ascociated with the horror depicted.

Vegans don't put horror into others and the world. Don't make that otherwise. Don't be worse than what does it, ruining perspective horror always in mind.

Defeat it with better alternatives if you care. Demand, as in more people bying vegan stuff, is doing your bit. Find or make good products.

Fry's Vegan sausage rolls taste better than the real thing, or did, they might have changed the formula recently.

Get them. Show others them.

Don't spread horror. It lowers standards and makes it normalised. People feel it's dominant after aware of it.

It isn't. It's wrong. Don't advertise your defeat to it. Don't be it's advertiser.

Raise empathy for what is wronged. Seen outside of the wrong.

Make them decent. Good attitude and care could turn a predator into a friend. Good. Better life not bound by cruelty. They likely convinced cruelty wins through seeing it/a lot of it. Being it as not to fear it.

Show a better way. They might not know. Other things, like horror, too prominant. Or nice seen as weakness.

Be the example that makes nice ultimate.

>>213842432
And then you'll slowly go back to eating whatever it was you did before

>>213843005
>Israelis are human,

Veganism is mental illness.

>>213842502
Did you know that supplementation is associated with bad health outcomes that consuming food with the same micros isn't? Fish oil supplementation for example is associated with increased risk of ventricular tachycardia and ventricular fibrillation, but the same risk doesn't exist when an equivalent amount of fish oil is consumed through eating fish. This most likely has to do with things like rate of absorption, other compounds modulating the effect, etc.

To think that nutrition is as simple as "get enough x" with no regard where x comes from and other factors is very reductive and quite ignorant. While a properly formulated vegan diets beats the average shitty processed food diet, properly formulated omnivore diets, like pesceterian, have it beaten in all major studies when it comes to health outcomes. A poorly formulated vegan diet on the other hand is much more dangerous than a poor omnivore diet, as the former comes with a risk of major deficencies that can be lethal even in the short term, there's no shortage of stories about vegan parents killing their children with early vegan diets, or fruitarians starving themselves to death.

Do not think i am a defender of factory farming though, as farm animals also come with their own plethora of health risks, like very high saturated fat and O6 content compared to wild game, which both are major contributors to most health issues today.

My point is that whether we like it or not, a vegan diet is not one to thrive on. This makes arguing in favor of it more complicated, as it will necessarily involve risking one's health.

>>213844400
"Spreading horrors" is just showing what is being done all around the world to the animals whose products the global population consumes. It's not inventing anything that's not already there, it's shining a light on a real and very disturbing issue.

>>213844400
>just close your eyes bro
>don't think about uncomfortable facts bro
>just buy the ham at the grocery store and convince yourself it grew in the store bro
>who cares about the truth bro
I'm not vegan but if you're too pussy to face how your meat got on your plate you don't deserve to eat it. Watching the horrors of modern meat industry should be mandatory before you're allowed into the meat section of a grocery store.

>>213845321
Since you seem to understand what horrors go on there, why aren't you vegan?

>>213842502
>1
>needlessly
Who decides what is needed and what is not? This is just communism disguised as conservative morality.
>2 and 3
This is just dehumanizing utilitarianism.
Imagine arguing we don't really need sex to reproduce but we need the next generation to be born so all women should be inseminated by random sperm. Sex is basically rape now that we can inseminate via IVF so it's wrong.
You could also argue that we don't really need the next generation to be born or even our current generation so we should kill ourselves for the good of the climate.

You can hold these views but I will oppose you and if you get radical I will genocide your movement.

>>213842358 (OP)
Retarded vegan propoganda

>>213845334
I've considered it but decided I am not willing to abandon the real comfort and nutritional convenience of animal products for the sake of an undeserved feeling of moral righteousness. I am under no delusion of my individual choice to go vegan having any effect on the meat industry. The factory won't kill one less cow because me, Joe McFuckFace decided to eat one cow less. The cow will be killed anyways, shipped to the store, then go past expiration and be thrown out into the trash. It won't resurrect the cow either. Same reason why I don't vote in major elections, it's pretty much the equivalent of the voter's paradox. It doesn't matter.

>>213845489
I have also thought this way but later realized this is wrong.
This blog post writes up well why this kind of reasoning is flawed:
https://morallawwithin.substack.com/p/a-general-case-for-veganism (see section 5.3)

The author gives three reasons why it's wrong.
>Imagine the following extreme case: suppose there is a group of would-be murderers who form a club. The way the club works is that, for every person who joins, a 100-sided die is rolled, and if it rolls a 1, then a number of random people are murdered. The number of people murdered is chosen to be a random number near the number of members who have joined since the last group of killings. So for example, suppose once the 51st person joins, a 1 is rolled; then some number of people are killed. Then, suppose nobody ends up rolling a 1 until the 132nd person joins. But once they join, approximately 132 - 51 = 81 people are killed; perhaps 70 or 90 are chosen. And so on. In this way, it is guaranteed that on average one person will die for every person who joins, but anyone can say that if they join then they probably won’t cause any deaths.

>I take it that joining this group is equally as immoral as killing a person outright, or at the very least it isn’t much better. Adding these strange rules to obscure the causal relationship between individual choices and the consequences does not make a morally relevant difference. What matters is what, in general, is that this group is set up such that a person gets killed for everyone who joins; you cannot launder this choice by making the process complicated and uncertain.

>>213845653
>Imagine more realistic cases. A would-be slave-owner can’t defend himself by saying that the man would have been purchased by someone else, and that his individual decision probably won’t affect how many people are enslaved. Getting cheap labor is not acceptable grounds for taking away someone’s freedom; that is all that matters.

>The case is analogous here. The number of animals abused and killed will be roughly proportional to how many people pay for such to happen. That the causal relation between individual purchases and individual abuses and killings is uncertain does not make a difference; the only question that matters is whether it’s acceptable to pay people to do these things for the sake of a meal that one could easily forego.

>>213845653
Meat tastes good and keeps you from looking like a faggot vegan

>>213842358 (OP)
i will eat steak and bacon and no one can stop me.

>>213842432
Are people really this easy to emotionally manipulate?

>>213844400
>vegan foods are cheaper than meat alternatives
looooooooooooooooool
Maybe if you consider cardboard a good alternative to ham.

>>213844400
Vegan is not cheaper. I can buy tortured pig meat dir cheap. The momemnt I wanna buy something like onions meat replacement or some shit I pay at least tripple.

>>213845653
>>213845666
Equating Human life with animal life is literally dehumanizing. Like this Doc's title, we are above animals. Not to say we don't denigrate ourselves by treating them poorly, but eating them is not morally wrong in any way. We are given dominion. We are more than animals, any argument based on bringing either Humans down to the level of an animal, or raising an animal to parity with Humans has no moral ground to stand on.

>>213845653
>This blog post
All you opinions are completely disregarded when you say shit like this.

>>213842502
>1. Harming or killing animals, needlessly, is wrong
I've yet to see this be argued in a way that doesn't lead to antinatalism.

>>213845397
Justify your evil with whatever gay ass tough guy language you want (lol genocide). Eating meat is for evil faggots and that's all you are. You are a bad person and people you know and love see it.

>>213844400
>Vegan products taste better than meat alternatives
>Fry's Vegan sausage rolls taste better than the real thing
Yeah, no one cares about vegan hotdogs. Call me when I can get a vegan New York Strip or swordfish steak.

>>213845653
>>Imagine the following extreme case: suppose there is a group of would-be murderers who form a club. The way the club works is that, for every person who joins, a 100-sided die is rolled, and if it rolls a 1, then a number of random people are murdered. The number of people murdered is chosen to be a random number near the number of members who have joined since the last group of killings. So for example, suppose once the 51st person joins, a 1 is rolled; then some number of people are killed. Then, suppose nobody ends up rolling a 1 until the 132nd person joins. But once they join, approximately 132 - 51 = 81 people are killed; perhaps 70 or 90 are chosen. And so on. In this way, it is guaranteed that on average one person will die for every person who joins, but anyone can say that if they join then they probably won’t cause any deaths.
This isn't analogous because slaughterhouses don't choose a random number of animals to be slaughtered based on an exact count of registered consumers down to each member. Production is based chiefly on past sales and export/import forecasts, neither of which have a margin of error even close to 1.

1/2

>>213845653
>>213845666
>>213846229
>>Imagine more realistic cases. A would-be slave-owner can’t defend himself by saying that the man would have been purchased by someone else, and that his individual decision probably won’t affect how many people are enslaved. Getting cheap labor is not acceptable grounds for taking away someone’s freedom; that is all that matters.
This isn't analogous because the slave owner is performing the act of enslaving, while the meat consumer is not in fact performing the act of killing. If I had to kill the cow to eat it and argued someone else would kill it, then you'd have the point, but the reality is the cow has already been killed without my input long before i am even in a position to consume its meat, and my only decision is to whether benefit from its death or not.

>The number of animals abused and killed will be roughly proportional to how many people pay for such to happen.
Keyword "roughly". The difference between total output of an average animal farm and individual consumption is so large, one less consumer won't register, at all. Even a single industrial slaughterhouse processes millions of animals per year. The average person consumes 10-20 animals per year by meat weight. This isn't even close to within the realm of having any possible effect on production policies. Again, no farm will decided to lower their production from million to million - 10 because I'm not buying.

>That the causal relation between individual purchases and individual abuses and killings is uncertain
It isn't uncertain. It is certainly non-existent. There isn't an x% chance my decision to participare or not will affect production. The chance is exactly 0%.

>>213842502
2 is not true. Highly processed fake food replacements don't count as food.

>>213846229
>>213846243
This is the same reason why voting in large elections is pointless, btw. There has never been a single major, country-wide election that has been decided by a singular vote. If it happened, there would be a recount, because contrary to popluar belief, there is a certain margin of error due to inevitable miscounts. You can rest assured your individual vote will never decide who's president, but it will always waste your time.

>>213846325
Cowardice didn't build the world. It just takes credit.

Prisons came from the parasite class, not paradise.

Consideration and effort produced fantastic results your student kind shouldn't be privy to.

>>213846417
Silence, property

>>213846468
fucking whore

>>213846325
you didn't read Stirner

>>213842358 (OP)
I watched it, went "ahh that sucks" and then went back to eating pork, chicken because I love meat and how tasty it is. One animal eats the other to survive AND because it's tasty and signals our dominion over the slaughtered and consumed species. End of story.

>>213846770
Reading is a spook.

>>213846325
Stirner-sama, is the human condition and everything it encompasses a spook?

>>213846803
sure it is lil bro

>>213842502
Farming kills biodiversity aswell, retard kun. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.

>>213842358 (OP)
>>213842502
Let's be honest, the most patrician choice is eating meat that you know has had a good life and slaughtered at the age they'd survive on average in the wild.

>>213846280
>Highly processed fake food replacements don't count as food.
I don't see how this is a problem. You don't need to eat "highly processed food".

>>213848217
That's hard and requires a ton of effort (and money!) for most people. Much easier to just go vegan.

You won't "logic" me into becoming a vegan. I like meat, therefore I will eat meat. If there's a way to obtain meat (affordably) and at the same minimize the suffering of animals, then that's the better option. If not, too bad, I've got bigger problems in my life than worrying about random cows, pigs and chickens.

>>213848737
It's cheaper and easier to just look up ethical farms.

>>213848766
We all know you don't care. The vast majority of people cannot be logically reasoned with because they are hylic NPCs like you are and will continue to pay for animal torture like you do. Nothing you said is surprising whatsoever.

>>213849004
Oh yeah? Have you replaced all the animal products you consume with products from ethical farms?
And how do you know the farms are ethical? Ethical is not a legally binding term in farming, so what do you mean by that?

>>213849337
>Oh yeah?
Yes.
>Have you replaced all the animal products you consume with products from ethical farms?
Yes.
>And how do you know the farms are ethical?
Easy, I drink in the same pub as my local butcher and the three farm owners he sources from.
>Ethical is not a legally binding term in farming, so what do you mean by that?
I'm not a useless American, I don't need "legal" anything to be involved.

>>213842358 (OP)
I'm already vegan so I don't need to trauma bomb my heart. Fucking meat heads and their species based mental gymnastics.

>>213849409
You haven't answered my question. In what way is the farm you source your animal products from ethical?

>>213849450
>You haven't answered my question.
Yes, I did.
>In what way is the farm you source your animal products from ethical?
Already answered that in my first post.

>>213847264
>Farming wouldn't exist under communism/socialism

Your little faggot virtue signal way to try and dodge responsibility is irrelevant. You've also got the reading comprehension of a retard. NEEDLESSLY fucking moron, veganism isn't about reducing ALL suffering, harm, biodiversity loss etc. Just the kind that isn't necessary for human survival i.e factory farming animals.

>>213849319
Cry me a river.

>>213849590
>hey guys im actually a NPC hylic and i dont care about this topic at all
We know you don't care. Why respond in this thread at all?

>>213842502
>We don’t have to eat animals to survive since non-animal alternatives and supplements exist and are easily accessible
Except they arent for like 65% of the workds population.

Same russian thread cycle over and over again. Nazi-environment/vegan-income agitation cycle.

>>213849622
Vegans, and their sanctimoniousness, annoy me.

>animals have eaten other animals for the entire existence of animal life on earth
>vegans: IT STOPS NOW

>>213849622
90% of this thread is a russian shill on a botnet.

>>213842502
There is no right and there is no wrong. There is only popular opinion.

>>213849622
NTA but I love to see your kind squirm and moan at your inevitable failure

>>213849699
>>213849672
Yes Ivan we understand this is a pol agitation thread.

>>213846702
something tells me these plants in plant food are actually just some fungal pulp they're producing in factories

>>213845397
Easily. You don’t kill animals unless it’s out of necessity. Necessity is defined as “for survival” which could entail either self defense or in some scenario where no other food is available

If you say “no” to that then you have to be ok with someone killing and/or torturing stray dogs, purely for fun

>>213851442
False equivalency

>>213842358 (OP)
I don't get why vegans pretend to care for animals when they are ok with killing plants for food.
>b-but plants don't feel pain
Even if they don't feel pain like we or other animals do, they still want to live. They have developed self-defensive mechanism for themselves and their fruits that we humans have torn down with time through domestication to use them as food, clothes, furniture etc.
Why is it ok to hurt plants and enslave them just because they can't feel pain?

>>213851952
>they still want to live
They don't. To want something you need to have conscious interests. Plants are not conscious.

>>213842432
>Least insane vegan

>>213842432
And then you remember that society would collapse and everyone would die if these factory farms didnt exist lmao

Louder for the chuds in the back!

>>213842502
You'll be gaped before you are eaten

>>213842358 (OP)
Gender transition surgery.