Thread 213917239

There's something interesting to me about the way in which people on /tv/ will vehemently argue that the guy in 12 Angry Men is guilty and the government in Starship Troopers is actually good. These "cases" are completely fictional. Within in the universe of the movie, it is in fact the reality that the guy is innocent and the ST government is evil. This is just obvious if you watch the movie. It's not like the actual government or some actual criminal case like George Floyd where you can look at all these different facts and arguments. It's just a movie. But people on /tv/ are so racist that it transcends into the fictional realm and they'll continue to be chuds even though it doesn't even make sense within that alternate universe lol. I think this sort of low-iq behavior is similar to that post about jogger criminals who don't understand hypotheticals. "But what if you didn't eat breakfast?" "But I did eat breakfast?" The /tv/ version is "But what if a non-white was innocent?" "But they're always guilty." Or, for Starship Troopers, "What if an authoritarian state was bad? "But those states are always good." /tv/ struggles to understand abstract hypotheticals in the same way that a low-sentience "lunchtime rowdy" might.

yeah

people used to say "reddit is where dumb people act smart and 4chan is where smart people act dumb" but a lot of people on /tv/ seem to be legitimately almost retarded

>>213917239 (OP)
This board is full of contrarians. Normal people in normal situations can talk about /tv/ and movies without sperging out and telling you you didn’t understand jack shit and you have no idea what you’re talking about.

12AM doesn't reveal a clear reality in movie.
The bugs are evil in movie and out to anyone that's not a complete retard.
>OP is a faggot

>>213917239 (OP)
You're a sub 80 IQ ape who can't tell the difference between "innocent" and "not guilty beyond reasonable doubt"

Even Juror 8 never claimed innocence, just that he can't be 100% sure

>>213917239 (OP)
>It's not like the actual government or some actual criminal case like George Floyd where you can look at all these different facts and arguments.
If the cop genuinely feared for his safety there was no reason to stay on the guy's neck for 5 minutes after he stopped breathing, and 2 minutes after being told there was no pulse. He was guilty.

If this was real life, he would have been found guilty btw

>>213917440
>The bugs are evil in movie and out to anyone that's not a complete retard.
True but that doesnt make this brutal spartan society utopia either. In fact it seems quite flawed.

>>213917440
Let me guess - you believe the official 9/11 narrative too, right?

>>213917440
Starship Troopers shows that if we ever get invaded by aliens then liberals will side with the aliens

>>213917239 (OP)
It's Russians.

>>213917431
>everyone who disagrees with me is a contrarian asshole
wow you are completely fucking retarded having discussions anonymously on the internet means you can obviously say things you wouldn’t irl

>>213917558
https://youtu.be/XrvScY5nJw0

>>213917239 (OP)
people here are /pol/cels who are so deep into reactionary perspectives that they hyper analyze the major pieces of cultural works over the last century that influence modern liberal/progressive thought and realize that 12 Angry Men was a cornerstone to this idea, so they hope to undermine its message by astroturfing a counter reappraisal of the movie but in the direction of tearing it down and trying to counter its message by trying to claim how unrealistic it is, and therefore a faulty message in its core. It is about trying to justify prejudiced thinking because they believe the lack of it is what has caused the current dysfunction in today's world when it comes the culture, social cohesion, racial politics and so on. But they have to undermine a movie like 12 Angry Men that is directly about poking holes in that sort of thinking in the first place, but at a time that appealed to common sense values and humanity that is actually convincing, rather than the low effort "it's current year, bigot" argumentation we experience today.

>>213917635
Whole lotta words but no rebuttal

>>213917239 (OP)
> it is in fact the reality that the guy is innocent
No, it's fact that one of the jury members takes it upon himself to become the defense and even introduces new evidence (his knife) to sway the rest of the jury. All that happens is that the accused is fount not guilty. A court cannot find you innocent.
As for Starship Troopers, it's a loose adaptation of a novel that goes hard into Nazi Germany satire due to the directors childhood. Most of the defenders of the Federation do so more from what the novel presented. For example even military service was not required to gain citizenship, only some kind of lengthy and dedicated public service. Even the crippled or mentally incompetent can find some kind of service.

>>213917499
He was holding him in place for the paramedics to arrive while dealing with a hostile crowd. There was no indication of pressure on the neck, such as signs of bruising, and this was preceded by 30 minutes of Floyd stating he couldn't breathe long before anyone had even touched him, which was then deemed to be desperate attempt to avoid arrest (Floyd had also been arrested previously and had also claimed to be unable to breathe then, although the officers wouldn't have been familiar with this prior encounter).
The paramedics (that Chauvin called for) arrived late after first entering the wrong street, and were likely impeded by the crowd of hostiles that gathered around the scene.

>>213917716
I am agreeing with OP, but if you have a different argument, explain it and I can rebut it.

>>213917499
Chauvin is probably guilty, but in order to be found guilty you have to receive a fair trial and he didn't get one when even the fucking President was commenting on it.

The big problem with media literacy is this: the left have argued for years stuff like death of the author when it comes to media analysis. Death of the author is the idea that the author's intent is not the supreme final say because a work is available to the public and can be interepreted how you approach the work. You can look at all media analysis and see people taking things how they want and putting forward their cases.

So when a person says:
>I think Frodo and Sam are gay in Lord of the Rings.
We are supposed to take their interpretation of the text seriously even though Tolkien was quite adamant they are not gay and it is a serious friendship because of death of the author. (See pic related.) The ridiculous thing is these same people will turn around and, without any irony, attack people on media literacy when they enjoy a character like Homelander/Rorschach/Punisher/Judge Dredd or when they interpret a film like 12 Angry Men/Starship Troopers differently.

It is like a bunch of people want to eat their cake and have it too; they believe they can interpret media how they want whilst attacking people for interpreting media how they want.

>>213917765
>There was no indication of pressure on the neck
Other than the fact he was face down on pavement with a guy on top of him, which will make it harder to breathe? Again, no reason to keep on top of him when he stopped breathing. And the retarded cop just stared into space for 5 minutes after clearly seeing he was not breathing. It was beyond negligence.

>>213917440
The bugs were retaliating against mormons which makes them the good guys

>>213917826
This is a bullshit excuse. He was convicted on the evidence, which was damning. His lawyer was pretty bad as well.

I see OP has lost enough arguments that his only remaining recourse is impotently seethe about contrarianism. Next time, find a movie to fellate that makes better arguments than the likes of "what if both witnesses were lying for no reason" or "yes, he remembers nothing at all about the movie he allegedly watched while his father was being murdered, but you failed to recall an obscure detail about a different movie, so his alibi totally isn't dubious".

>>213917239 (OP)
>the ST government is evil
FUCKING EXPLAIN THIS SHIT TO ME.

FASCISM IS BAD BECAUSE IT IS...
> DICTATORSHIP
> POLICE STATE
> A ENSLAVED OR MASS MURDERED SUBGROUP OF CITIZENS/SUBJECTS.

THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE OF ANY OF THE ABOVE IN STARSHIP TROOPERS.

ONLY THOSE WITH MILITARY SERVICE GET OFFICIAL CITIZENSHIP & VOTING RIGHTS. OK... AND?

THERE IS ZERO EVIDENCE THE "NON-CITIZENS" HAVE LESS DAY TO DAY FREEDOMS OR ARE HARMED/OPPRESSED IN ANYWAY.

WHAT THE FUCK?

>>213917841
Unfortunately you're right and I think both of these types of people just want to seethe about politics and not REALLY discuss the actual art itself

>>213917851
>Other than the fact he was face down on pavement with a guy on top of him, which will make it harder to breathe?
The fact that he had been saying he couldn't breathe for the last 30 minutes made them stop taking it seriously. They asked him at the start of the encounter if he had taken any drugs (he had) and he told them that he hadn't. If he had explained that he was on fentanyl from the start, they would have had reason to handle the encounter differently.
He ended up face down on the ground because after a long period of trying to gently coax him into the squad car, he kicked his way out the other side and fell to the floor, where they detained him and called for an ambulance to come check him out.
>no reason to keep on top of him when he stopped breathing.
At that point, what could they do? If he's not breathing, they can't just reposition him and bring him back to life, and if it started before they even laid a hand on him, it was inevitable. Fast medical response would have been the only way to prevent his death, and his fate was sealed when he told them he hadn't taken any drugs.

>>213917900
Right to a fair trial is not a bullshit excuse but one of the bedrocks of the justice system, you can be guilty as sin, but you shouldn't be punished until the state allows you to be fairly tried.

Chauvin was never fairly tried

>>213917826
There's also the angry mob outside of the courthouse every day chanting threats so loudly that they could be heard inside the building

>>213917989

>watches a satirical propaganda piece that beats you over the head about how propagandistic it is
>still doesn't get it

Just go back to playing Bubsy and Factorio, bro.

>>213917440
The bugs are bugs, there is no ascribing an ideology to them

>>213917603
...said by contrarian assholes

>>213917239 (OP)
Imagine 12 Angry Men but it’s one guy trying to convince 11 other KKK guys that Leo Frank killed that child and not the black guy

>>213917995
To boil it down to the basics it is about feeling clever:
>I'm cleverer than you because I can interpret a piece of art in my own way
or
>I'm cleverer than you because I got the point being put forward by the piece of art
It has nothing to do with the actual merits of interpretation of literacy and everything to do with wanting to hold one over others and feel cleverer than them.

>>213918171
It probably took all of 2 minutes to convince them, Frank was a fucking retard

>soo, uhh, that black guy killed her and then he left a note on her body admitting that he did it. How convenient, looks like an open and shut case, huh?
>now go and lynch him before anyone can properly investigate the murder

>>213917734
the problem with the movie is it doesn't meaningfully change any of the content of the book. It just dresses people up in Nazi outfits, and assumes that's enough to "poo poo" the whole idea.
I like Paul Verhoeven, but whatever he was trying to do there was dumb.

>>213917239 (OP)
If you want to present a certain idea in fiction, you need to do it properly. If you want to give the message that fascism is bad, you need to have a compelling argument for it. If you try to convince the audience it is sensible to have a reasonable doubt, then your reason for the doubt should be waterproof.

>>213918253
Imagine being so guilty that the KKK gives up the chance to lynch a black man, and even protects him in order to put you in prison.

>>213918583
The KKK just lynched criminals and troublemakers. They didn't want to see innocent black men killed

>The lynching of the Frenches of Warsaw took place in Warsaw, Gallatin County, Kentucky on May 3, 1876, between 1 am and 2 am on a Wednesday morning. Benjamin and Mollie French, African Americans, were lynched by a white mob for the murder of another African American, which was unusual for this period.[1] Lake Jones was an elderly black man who had faithfully served a white family named Howard, both before and after his emancipation from slavery.[2] The Frenches were accused of poisoning Lake Jones with arsenic and intending to steal his money.[3][4][5][6]
>The Ku Klux Klan lynched the Frenches because, they said, Lake Jones was "the best nigger in the country."[1][7][8] The KKK broke into the jail, took the Frenches about a mile upstream of Warsaw, and hanged them both from a tree on J.H. McDaniels' (McDonnell's in another account) farm.[2][7]

>>213918021
>At that point, what could they do?
Resuscitation, idiot

>>213918073
Its a bullshit excuse because his trial was fair. He raised this on appeal and it was rejected. But you know better than the appellate judges, right?

>>213917239 (OP)
>Lumet's parents, Baruch and Eugenia (née Wermus) Lumet, were Jewish
/tv/ is nonstop jew

>>213917239 (OP)
>12 Angry Men
The movie leaves the question of whether he's guilty or not open. There is no scene where he's shown to have commit the crime or not commit the crime. All we have is the evidence presented in the film.
>Starship Troopers
"Evil" is a nebulous concept. The film can only show the government to be evil through their actions. If someone agrees with their actions they're obviously not going to think they're evil.

You claim /tv/ struggles to understand abstract concepts, but you struggle to understand the distinction between intended meaning and what the text actually establishes. You can't control interpretation of characters and actions they take. Any story with zero potential interpretive freedom would be mind numbingly boring, any discussion of media where you stop at the author's intent is shallow.

>>213919029
That's what the paramedics were coming to do. If the officers were able to do anything in ideal circumstances, they weren't while fending back a crowd of angry people cursing at them, which drew the majority of their focus.

>>213917526
there is no assertion by ST that it is utopia though

However I agree with the sentiment in general like retards saying how cool the villain of avatar or fallout new vegas is because they're so fucking stupid that they confuse a hostile caricature by an author that hates their guts (to the point of remorseless murder) with representation

>>213919071
the facts were never considered in his trial, only the perception of a not guilty verdict.

>>213917239 (OP)
the problem with starship troopers supposed parody of facism is that it didn't even depict anything that was even bad about the government. You can't just be like "oh they were bad btw" off screen. So they either did a shot job in writing it, or they felt obligated to have to say that facism is bad after the fact. You can say "buenos aires was a false flag" or whatever fucking made up shit you want but that's not what happened in the film, it wasn't even suggested.

>>213919198
These creatures seem to believe that simply having the intent to convey a certain idea automatically makes it competently conveyed.

>>213917499
Killing the nog was the least of the problem but americans will never not worship blacks so it's over

>>213919365
>military service as the only realistic way to get basic citizenship rights
>right to have children locked behind citizenship
>military service guarantees getting maimed in a pointless forever war
>military dictatorship that justifies its own existence by provoking pointless forever wars
>no personal agency or any room for public discourse, you're only supposed to walk into the meatgrinder and maybe get out alive if you're lucky
even if the living standards might have been "utopian" its still a subjugated way to live. just because an apple looks clean and tidy on the surface doesnt mean it can't be rotten on the inside.

>>213919365
Imagine if in order to vote, you had to go fight goat herders in Afghanistan. Does that seem like a good idea to you?

>>213919576
only if the goat herders kill 50k soldiers in an afternoon because the people in charge use retarded military strategies and don't give a shit about casualties

Then who else killed him OP

>>213919576
Are you fr0m Qatar?

>>213919365
>it didn't even depict anything that was even bad about the government
so killing thousands of soldiers in a botched attack because that's the only way to keep bodies pumping through the military isn't bad.

>>213919576
That's not what happened in the movie though. We're talking about within the context of the movie, not just arguing whether facism is bad or not based on outside things. In the context of the movie, if aliens had just destroyed a major city, I think there's nothing wrong with being required to do your part to save your fucking species to obtain the benefits of citizenship. It's not even like they threw them into combat without training and put a gun to the back of their head and said "not one step back" either. They at least had the choice of being a favela money or whatever.

>>213919752
that's not unique to facism

>>213919806
>do your part to save your fucking species
reminder that the bugs are not a threat to humanity. humans have quarantine zones inside bug space, military outposts on bug planets, and can mount an invasion within days of this attack. they wanted this. the threat of a wolf to make your own tribe give you absolute authority to deal with it is more useful than actually killing the wolf. the military dictatorship needs this threat in order to justify its own existence, these wild animals that cant be negotiated with or felt compassionate about are the perfect enemy.
>threw them into combat without training
literally all of Rico's training involved shooting at humans by playing tag team with his squad. they were sent to the alien planet without support, the entire point was to let them die so the people in charge have further justification to escalate the conflict. "we're losing! we need more people for the meatgriinder!" because again, defeating the bugs is not the objective of the military government, they are just more useful alive and as a threat.

I don't think authoritarian states are always good. I do believe the Starship Troopers one is though.

>>213919976
That could be the case, but not enough information is given to even suggest any of that. It doesn't have to be clearly spelled out but they didn't do a good job even trying to present these possibilities.

>>213919976
>the entire point was to let them die so the people in charge have further justification to escalate the conflict
or more likely, it was just military hubris

>>213917239 (OP)
but the writers are trying to impose thier worldview on reality, making a contained fictional world wasn't their main goal

>>213920230
this, it happens all the time, especially at the start of a conflict. America went into both world wars not knowing what the fuck they were doing and got slaughtered with the same gung ho attitude that was shown in the movie. And just like in the movie, they eventually found their footing and started operating effectively.

>>213917239 (OP)
Anon, you have to realize. The fags on here built their entire personality around schilling their ideology and if you ever call it into question they chimp out and start calling you names.

>>213919365
Needing to serve in the army to get a license to have children is bad.

Not reading your dumb thread

But I hope some other anon has already pointed out how you got it all the way fucking backwards about Starship Troopers. Regardless of my thoughts are of the story, it's clearly presented on the surface that the government is in fact NOT evil and is protecting Earth from a bug invasion. You might actually be retarded if you missed that.

>>213920332
>thier
Learn English before accusing people of shit you dumb esl.

>>213920455
is it though? If your country or planet is in danger? Also resources are finite, unless you want most of humanity to live in poverty and/or work like slaves, some sort of limit on breeding might need to be imposed in the future.

>>213919861
Beside the point. The society is fascist. The party is the military is the state. All things serve the military. The only way a military run state can function is either the military becomes bloated, top heavy and weak, or there are constant wars to grind up civilians/citizens and obsolete equipment to maintain steady production of new military hardware while maintaining a steady flow though the chain of command to retirement.

>>213917239 (OP)
OP you are so out of your depth on this conversation it's actually not even funny

>>213920431
he posted, without irony

>>213920586
Militaries don't only fight, they also undertake major engineering, exploration, scientific or settlement projects. They have interstellar travel, so they have plenty of stuff they can be doing without ever needing to go to war, but being prepared for the eventuality doesn't necessarily mean they want it either. It'd probably be better to have some central control on settling so you don't have a bunch of separately self interested colonies that end up in conflict with each other anyways.

>>213917239 (OP)
OP, you're being a midwit. People say that stuff because it's funny, ok? Same reason there's 100s of threads talking about how Chris Watts LITERALLY HAD NO CHOICE and was most likely innocent anyway. Or those Chris Hansen threads about the fat cowboy pedo and how he was clearly entrapped. Or how Fishtank.Live is actually kino high art instead of a trashy exploitative cash grab. You wouldn't get it.

>>213920582
When the state is the military your country will always be in danger.

>>213917635
12 Angry Men is a dishonest story and it has nothing to do with the defendant being guilty or not

>>213921011
>militaries don’t only fight
Hence
>the military becomes bloated, top heavy and weak, or there are constant wars

Militaries not only don’t have room at the top for everyone, they don’t have room anywhere else. They are designed for high turnover at all levels. So that’s either bloat, a fuckton of veterans, or a fuckton of corpses.

>>213917918
CONGRATULATIONS and THANK YOU to the only other person in this thread who knows what RRRRREEEEAASSSSONNNNABBBBLLLLE doubt means

>>213919071
>his trial was fair
lol no
What protocol did he break? What hostility did he show? How did Floyd die?
You're a fucking clown.

>>213917918
>what if both witnesses were lying for no reason

they had reasons to doubt their stories based upon what they saw in court.

>>213917239 (OP)
Stop conflating unrelated things you faggot
The guy in 12 angry men was innocent, the government in starship troopers was good

>>213917239 (OP)
>Lady may or may not have had marks on her nose from wearing glasses
Okay but maybe they're sunglasses. Or reading glasses.
Can her testimony really be dismissed for marks on her nose?

>>213922160
It can be dismissed on principle because she claimed she saw a murder across the street through the windows of a passing train.

>>213917239 (OP)
You shit in ur own mouth with the hypothetical argument bc the chuds are actually exploring the hypothetical.

>>213922228
And while im not a chud per se i am white therefore i must stand for sound logic

Stavros. Yes he is alarmingly fat, but he's cute & he outworks everybody!

>>213917239 (OP)
Accused race is never specified.

>>213917239 (OP)
Accused's race is never specified.

>>213920482
bait

>>213922355
They show him. He’s a wop.

>>213920586
>>213921011
This is beginning to make me consider whether Starfleet/The Federation is a fascist state. Especially considering Section 31 acts without oversight.

>>213922355
It was the 50s. Neighborhoods were segregated. When you have segregated areas of town you barely need to mention race. I seem to recall they mentioned several which neighborhood he grew up in/lived in

>>213917239 (OP)
Sorry faggot OP, but TV is right in both of these scenarios you have posted. Now dilate.

>>213923494
The kid looked Italian, which was classified as white, but as an ethnic griup they had abad reputation regarding crime

>>213923446
Starfleet, the federation, and earth are separate entities.

>>213917239 (OP)
Starship Troopers is a special case where it was written based on the books, and it was all played straight up till then, but Veerhoven took it and turned it into a satire. That's part of what makes it such a subtle and effective satire, and also why we get to laugh at all the retards who think it's pro-fascist. But technically you can still argue that it is pro-fascist since it was written that way.

>>213918171
People forget the KKK after a bit more time hated Jews more than any other group including blacks.

>>213917239 (OP)
LOTR
>Death of the author, its actually about gays.
Liberal propaganda
"Death of the author, it actually about bugs bad."
>YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!!

>>213917499
>If the cop genuinely feared for his safety
he feared for Floyds safety. he didnt want him to wander into traffic or roll into the street more. Floyd was overdosing nobody killed him

>>213917477
You don't know the difference between reasonable doubt and unreasonable doubt.

>Uh, what if we're all just the hallucination of a Boltzmann brain? Then there's no way he could have done it! Not guilty.

>>213924064
Heinlein backtracked on a lot of the pro-fascist messaging in starship troopers. It’s mostly excused by the idea humanity is rapidly expanding and needing a staggeringly massive military, but he didn’t really give much thought to how much control the military would have over all of society.

>>213918944
>the kkk has conducted an internal investigation of all lynchings and found no innocents were targeted

>>213917841
Best post ITT

>>213917239 (OP)
why if you say that humanity in starship troopers are cool or patrick bateman or tyler durden is cool do people get upset and say things like "media literacy", but if you say darth vader is cool or dress up as a stormtrooper nobody cares?

>>213917239 (OP)
Liberal propaganda is wrong. The "authoritarian personality" is right, and the bad guys won world war 2.

>>213924280
At the very least, they didn't pick on random black people and hang them for no reason

>>213918126
Starship Troopers is a serious work of science fiction by a man who completely believes in it. The satire in the movie is just cheap aesthetic DEY ARE DA NAZIS!!!! LOOK HE WEAR DA SS UNIFORM!!!! with no actual substance.

>>213924424
Yes Ivan we know this is another pol influence campaign thread.

>>213924530
Will you kill yourself when Ukraine gives up the Donbass and Crimea? I sure hope so.

>>213924506
Yeah, they hung them because they thought they were criminals based on sometimes zero evidence.

>>213924548
And the retard admits these threads are made by a russian influence shill.

>>213917440
It was just a fun movie about space war with dark comedic elements :)

>>213924593
Is that what your history teacherberg told you?

>>213924593
They were no-bullshit about it, but still, being overzealous in defending your people from attack is far different from random, senseless aggression as is often portrayed in media.

>>213924762
oh shit you’re right jews also taught me the earth is round that most mean its flat

>/tv/ wants you to side with juror 3 just because the accused is Italian.
I remember those threads, I almost fell for them too. Juror 8s what if argument are way more solid than 3s.

>>213924801
>in defending your people
what a retard you are

>>213926086
Elaborate

>>213917239 (OP)
12 Angry Men should have been a hung jury. They were all hot (possibly close to heat exhaustion) and could not think clearly. They deliberated less than an hour and a half. The film is additionally an example of unreliable narrator because not all 12 of the men were angry. As for the Troopers, both sides are evil. Bugs are shit and people are shit. I rest my case.

>>213924643
I am not Russian and I didn't make this thread. Can you answer the question though? I'd love to watch your livestreamed suicide.

>>213917477
Are you fucking retarded? If you aren't guilty you're innocent.

>>213925008
you can independently, physically, empirically confirm via basic observation and repeatable testable scientific methods that earth is flat, stationary and enclosed. Don’t believe me, go look for yourself:
https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/40375472/#40435656

https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/40375472/#40435684

https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/40460212/#40460254

https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/40375472/#40442060

https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/40375472/#40451756

https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/40460212/#40513170

https://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/40641095/#40686204

>>213925008
>someone called out my bullshit. Just let me consult with my strawman
Weak.

>>213917239 (OP)
>/tv/ struggles to understand abstract hypotheticals in the same way that a low-sentience "lunchtime rowdy" might.
Here's an abstract hypothetical (especially for you lmao): A guy watches starship troopers. The satire isn't lost on him. He understands perfectly. He's very "media literate". He even heard about verhoeven spelling out for those who couldn't catch on. But he likes the humans anyway and think this war on bugs is badass. Nope you can't claim he doesn't understand the movie, the hypothetical suggests he does. But he's in these threads calling you a faggot anyway.
This post was a waste of time because I know the hypothetical is incomprehensible to you. And then you go and make these hilarious posts demonstrating a complete lack of self awareness. It must be everyone that disagrees with you who's stupid. How can they not feel the same way you do about movies.

>>213917851
>Other than the fact he was face down on pavement with a guy on top of him,
It's normal procedure, millions of people have suffered it and didn't die from it, Floyd died because he was a drug addict on fentanyl and other drugs, the world is a better place without him

>>213917900
chauvinist was convicted because the jurors were afraid for their lives and their families, see the riots

>>213926845
That’s not a strawman. Attacking the source of contradicting evidence can validate any idea.

>>213927006
this entire post is just random words

12 angry men has nothing on "The Verdict". In that one the bad guys (a Christian hospital) completely destroy the main character in court but the jury sides with him because he appealed to emotion. through the film we're reminded multiple times that they are "christian doctors" and are "not jewish doctors" which feels very out of place.

>>213917851
Fastest NPC test?
Ask someone when Floyd first said "I can't breathe"

>>213928658
Anyone who has watched the full tape of george crawling through the squad car knows Floyd died from an overdose

The killer had a motive
No alibi
The pawnshop owner confirmed he sold the killer the murder weapon
Two eyewitnesses put the killer at the scene of the crime
One of which witnessed the killer committing the murder
It doesn't get any guiltier

>>213929008
Every single one of those points is addressed in the movie, did you even watch it

>>213929091
They were only addressed by inventing rationale. Not by judging the facts of the case.

>>213929091
No they weren't. There is no excuse for the defendant not knowing what movie he saw.

>>213917239 (OP)
>Within in the universe of the movie, it is in fact the reality that the guy is innocent
We don't know that, the movie could have shown if he had actually done the murder, but it didn't, because it's trying to make a point about prejudice and the role it plays in the presumption of guilt.
>The /tv/ version is "But what if a non-white was innocent?" "But they're always guilty."
It's more like "What if a jew write a story trying to prove that whites will find non-whites guilty because of prejudice instead of evidence?" "But they always write those kinds of stories"

With ST there's some irony that's going over your head. It's something like
>I like space marines shooting at space bugs movie. I get the "deep" point it's trying to make, but I don't care, so I'll just enjoy it at face value.

>>213929218
>>213929220
midwits

>>213929426
Not an argument

>>213928874
Passed. Not NPC.

>>213929454
it wasn't meant to be one pseud

>>213929220
before psycho theaters just played whatever on a loop open to close. you bought a ticket, stayed as long as you wanted, saw a news reel periodically, and left. psycho was the first movie that closed the doors after the show started.

>>213929530
Yeah you got nothing