Thread 213936370

Have you seen this movie?
Apparently it's free to watch on youtube now

Do you think it's possible to be a moral person without being vegan?

>>213936370 (OP)
>Do you think it's possible to be a moral person without being vegan?
Yeah, morals are just an evolved trait for kin selection which makes eating non-human meat a morally good thing.

>>213936370 (OP)
NOOOOOoooo not da heckin moomoo cows not da cutie patooties nooo not da dairy dudies not da bovinerino bois!!

>>213936370 (OP)
Let me guess, Meat is Murder?

>>213936370 (OP)
I don't think it's possible to be a moral person if you're a vegan, and I say that as someone who who likes animals.

>>213936370 (OP)
>Do you think it's possible to be a moral person without being vegan?
Yeah. I get what they mean and the factory farming stuff is honestly appalling and a disgrace. But I still do eat meat. If things do have to die so that we can live (and as heterotrophs we don't make our own food) then fair enough. That's our nature. But there is no reason for us to be needlessly cruel and callous about it either.

Why is it amoral for Humans to eat other animals but not amoral for animals to eat other animals, which happens literally constantly in Nature?

Honestly it showed me how crazy efficient we are at killing animals.

We should treat them a bit better tho, don't want pus or antibiotics in my burger.

>>213936623
Because veganism is just misandry "justified"

vegans are gay so they can't be moral

>>213936370 (OP)
yes, vegans are just posers
go live in a self sustaining commune, then you'll talk

You know what else is free and on Youtube? Carts of mofugging Darkness

https://youtube.com/watch?v=zi-f_J6hV-g

Why does the argument have to be so extreme in either direction?

>you CAN'T eat ANY meat!
>I want the industrial farming process to cause MORE suffering!

Like, objectively industrial farming is minecraft "automated feather gathering" tier suffering in the name of 1% more profit.
Surely we can agree to scale that back, to set laws across the industry that try to make things humane?
We already do and have but just not in all cases.

>>213936860
Sure, you could do that, but the result will be less meat and it will be more expensive. If the demand for meat outweighs the demand for farm animals to be treated humanely, then what justification is there to regulate the meat market?

>>213936754
>my ancestor :)

>>213936754
Queen needs dat bibisi

Gonna eat a big fucking roast tonight. Fuck OP and fuck vegan homos. Why are all vegan homos bald and meek?

>>213936598
>If things do have to die so that we can live
They don't though? You want to kill them, that's all.

>>213936860
>I want the industrial farming process to cause MORE suffering!
That's not a real side of this debate. Stop taking shitposts by people taking the piss on 4chan as real just so it can fit your "Muh Middle Road!"-narrative.

>>213937101
Whether you're eating Animals OR Plants, they have to die in order for you to eat them and thus keep living, dipshit. So yes: Things DO have to die so that we can live.

Why are threads about this movie spammed here constantly? Is it a bot?

>>213936370 (OP)
>Do you think it's possible to be a moral person without being vegan?
Yes

Animals are food. Animals are pets.
I will not eat the bugs.

>>213936370 (OP)
yes of course

>>213936623
Because human morality is not based on behaviour of wild animals. Otherwise you could justify rape and murder using the same logic. Hope this helps.

>>213937538
>Because human morality is not based on behaviour of wild animals.
>wild
Humans are not separate from nature. We are just as "wild". Hope that helps, nigger.

>>213937605
Thanks for confirming you believe raping and murdering is moral (because le nature) therefore disqualifying yourself from any argument around morality.

>>213937646
raping and murdering you would be moral, yes

I think it is immoral to create needless animal suffering. However it isn't immoral to kill animals for food.

>>213936370 (OP)
You're a seething incel. Meat or no meat, morals will always be out of your reach.

>>213936370 (OP)
Killing animals isn't murder so yes it's possible to be moral whether or not you're vegan.
This is such an open and shut case. Veganism is based entirely on feelings, not reason.

>>213936623
Vegans who believe predator animals are doing something immoral exist

>>213938531
most vegans are women and vegans are the only diet group not overweight on average

>>213936370 (OP)
>Narrated by:
>Joaquin Phoenix
>Sia

>>213937538
>Meat eating bad because it kills animals
>It kills animals when other animals eat meat, but that's not a big deal because....uhhh...

So do you have an ACTUAL answer, or....?

>>213938728
So what do they do about it? Surveil forests and natural parks and intervene when they see a predatory animal chasing and trying to eat another animal?

>>213937646
What's funny is you're an atheist subhuman, so anything you say about morality is pointless, you dumb duplicitous cunt

>>213938786
I already gave the answer. I'm sorry you're to retarded to comprehend it.

>>213938993
>you’re subhuman if you don’t believe in fairy tales

>>213939266
There you go

Meat eating isn't bad ( spiritaully, metaphysically ) because animals dies, it's bad because we have automated and industrialized the process to the extend where animal life is wasted and it's a cruel machine and most of the time unneeded in the current circumstances.

I don't understand why impose so called human morality unto everything that comes from nature in man but we turn a blind eye to this.

Most shithole countries ( all of them ) have poor regulations and any country that allows kikes or muslims need to allow them to kill in their special retarded ways.

So I think in general, you have 4 groups:
- actual vegans, we shouldn't even touch animals
- non-vegans, animals should have a decent life and than die in the most non painful way for meat consumption
- jews, muslims and good goys, you should be allowed to kill and do anything with animals, but nothing my talmuding tale says is bad
- herzoggers - just who gives a shit, fuck animals, kill animals, skin animals alive

>>213939428
What I'm trying to say is that you need to stop making these threads because you're mostly interacting with the third group I mentioned and as you can see it's a shit show.

Not everyone can be vegan or even vegetarian as some people can't process some types of food properly and must eat meat to get the proper proteins to be healthy. It's not rare. Lots of vegans feel weak and get health problems later in life because of this.

I'm against meat because it's unsustainable, there are starving africans and indians and yet we waste so much food being given inefficiently to animals just so we can eat them?
Just doesn't make sense when we could instead have a billion more PoC to enrich our society.

>>213939428
>animal life is wasted
The issue with this argument is it contends that a completely thoughtless, painfully stupid animal like a chicken would have some sort of worthwhile meaningful existence if it lived five years instead of five months or five weeks and that it would be happy if it was in a field with grass rather than a tiny cage with a dozen other chickens
In reality a chicken, any chicken anywhere ever, couldn't begin to comprehend concepts like "meaningful" or "happy", those things are beyond meaningless to it
You mirror yourself onto the chicken and determine that if you were in a tiny cage being force fed you'd hate it but that argument doesn't hold up, because it's a fucking chicken and you're not
You literally only think like this because you've never been around chickens, or cattle or horses for that matter, for any extended period of time
Factory farmed animals are animate biological machinery that would stare at a blank wall until they starved to death if you didn't bother to process them into food first, there's nothing in there to save

Meat isn't the problem. WE are.
In 1975 we were 4 billions. Now we are 8.2 billions only 50 years later.
Stop fucking so much and we'll be fine.
In the animal kingdom the number of gay animals is relative to the size of the population so that overpopulation isn't too much of a problem (unless human actions make overpopulation more easy). I guess there is a natural reason why there is more and more gays and trans. But the real problem is that heath is better so people who should have died lived and lived longer.
The solution?
We need to go full Logan's Run.

>>213940079
Tell that to africa, the middle east and south america.
Whites and asians don't make babies anymore.

>>213936370 (OP)
Why do you keep making this thread?

>>213939428
Kosher and halal meat should be forbidden for sure

>>213940218
why the fuck did white people and especially christians keep sending food aid to africans anyways just to multiply their population tenfold, there's literally nothing to gain from it. not even slave labor, unless you're chinese and running a mining company

As an amateur hunter and fisherman I find meat from markets and shit to have a disgusting texture and it has no taste. So I've taken to freeze my games to eat in winter. Not ideal, but better than the shit from the markets.

>>213939428
>non-vegans, animals should have a decent life and than die in the most non painful way for meat consumption
>eating old as fuck cow
You're too stupid to argue

1. Harming or killing animals, needlessly, is wrong
2. We don’t have to eat animals to survive since non-animal alternatives and supplements exist and are easily accessible
3. Because we don’t need to eat animals to survive we are killing and harming them needlessly
4. Therefore eating animals is wrong
5. Go vegan

>>213940218
reminder that birth rates are declining literally EVERYWHERE around the world. its practically guaranteed that we will peak at 10 billion by 2050 and then slowly decline.

the idea that only whites are refusing to have children is a /pol/ fantasy, the same forces of womens liberation and better access to heathcare and contraeptives is happening everywhere, even shitholes like afghanistan, somalia and angola went from a 8.0 fertility rate in the 60s to 3.0 in 2020. the tide for population growth has already turned in the 90s

>>213936623
Animals do not live like humans do. They don't have access to things like grocery stores and supermarkets. When animals kill, they do so out of survival (i.e. they don't have much choice)

Humans do have a choice. Food, for us, is plentiful and easy to acquire, to the point where we're becoming obese.

Furthermore, we do not dictate our own morality, based on how other animals behave. Other animals also
>rape
>eat their own young
>eat their spouses
>kill each other
and so on

>>213940948
Meat and animal products don't cause obesity, ever. Only veg, fruit and sugary processed shit does, typically mixed in with the above meat options that humans thrive on.
Also veganism is the least ethical of all ways of eating but I have to go cook so whatever think about it for twenty seconds and you should be able to see why.

>>213941010
The logic is very simple, anon

Harming or killing animals, needlessly, is wrong. if you disagree, you are a psychopath who thinks someone who kills stray puppies is okay

We don't need to eat animals to survive, because non-animal alternatives and supplements exist, and are easily accessible.

Because we don't need to eat animals to survive anymore, we are killing and harming them needlessly

Therefore eating animals is wrong.

>b-b-but veganism can lead to animals dying too!
That doesn't make veganism equivalent to eating meat. There is a difference between
>Harming some animals is inevitable, but I am going to try to harm as few as possible
versus
>Harming some animals is inevitable, so we don't need to have any standards, just kill and harm as many as you feel like

Claims that "growing crops hurts animals" is equally nonsensical, because you have to grow crops to feed the animals we raise for slaughter anyways.

>>213941144
It's not psychopathic to think killing strays is wrong, retard. I actually advocate for removal of all dogs and cats worldwide, still doesn't make me a psychopath.
>inb4 you're brown

>>213941220
Okay, then you should also have zero problem with someone abusing their own pets for fun. It's their own property, right?
>It's okay to kill dogs and puppies for fun, just because you feel like it, after all the world's overpopulated anyways
If you answer yes to that, then yes, that is psychopathic and 99% of the population does not actually believe or defend that

>>213941144
Logic fails right out the gates.
Killing animals isn't needless, it provides you food. Just because an alternative source of food exists doesn't mean the primary source becomes irrelevant.
Similarly, by your logic, killing/harming plants to eat them is immoral because you can survive entirely off of animal meat.

>>213941254
Why are you asking me? No shit, animals are here to be used however we want. Fuck 'em. Extinction is a blessing we grant them in exchange for some tasty flesh.

>>213941281
It is needless because you don't need to kill animals for food. Alternatives not only exist, they are easily accessible and plentiful.

>>213941293
Okay, then you're psychopathic. I also don't think you genuinely believe that, I think if someone just beat a dog with a brick, right in front of you, you would believe that's psychotic and you're just posturing on the internet because you know you're logically inconsistent

>>213941301
And you don't need to kill plants for food either. Alternatives not only exist, they are easily accessible and plentiful.
Breatharians are the only moral beings.

>>213941325
You are really that blind to how people see the world outside your is/ought fallacy bullshit?
It's fine to eat horse, dog, etc. Do whatever you want to them, if you're cruel to them then I'm fine with people getting arrested over it but I don't think we should care about animals or feel for them. They're good food that is sometimes cute, scary, interesting to look at and so on, but at the end of the day animals are the best food and there's plenty to go around. The wah wah they feel pain and get sad in cages stuff is whatever.

>>213941350
Plants don't feel pain and don't care about dying
Animals do

>>213941350
Killing plants is not equatable to killing animals. Plants aren't sentient. Unless you think stepping on a flower, is the same as stomping on a puppy to death, which is the same as stomping on a baby to death?

If you agree with "better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all" then you should agree that humans breeding animals (giving them a life rather than never being born) is better than nothing at all. We're eating those animals, not random animals outdoors in the wilderness, at least by and large, so who cares. They are born only to be eaten. If not for us they'd have had nothing at all. If you disagree with this then you must agree with >>213941293
> Extinction is a blessing we grant them

>>213941426
can I kill a sleeping animal? it isn't sentient then

The documentary sucks by the way, really rough editing and whiny voiceover work the whole way through.

>>213940948

So factory farming okay so long as it's for survival and we don't use supermarkets. Got it.

Also animals do kill and torture to amuse themselves. (Orcas, dolphins, apes, primates). Please try to convince me anyone here set up and participates in factory farming because they intentionally want to torture animals so I can dismiss you as a retard.

>>213941472
That isn't what sentience is. Sentience =/= the state of being conscious, sentience is a quality acquired after the brain (more specifically the CNS) develops. You don't "lose sentience" by being asleep, it is merely temporarily inactive, in the end you still possess it.

A plant, however, has never acquired sentience to begin with

>>213941545
If it was genuinely for survival then yes it would be justified (i.e. if you were stranded on a desert island, and needed to kill a boar to stay alive), but it isn't for survival, because there are plentiful alternatives that exist and are easy to acquire that can easily replace animals as part of our diet

>>213941551
>it is temporarily inactive
right. not sentient then. so I can kill it.

>>213936596
Very interesting. What's the argument?

>>213941584
if I don't get it, I get depressed. depression is a terminal condition. so I need it to live. it's about survival.

>>213941584
Monoculture farming is not plentiful, which is why why it hasn't been done for the entirety of human canon.

>>213937605
No we are not, unless you are a barbarian who doesn't use their brain.
Saying that something is good because it's natural is a known logical fallacy called "Appeal to nature". Humans have reason and, if you believe in God, free will.

>>213937605
No we are not, unless you are a barbarian who doesn't use their brain.
Saying that something is good because it's natural is a known logical fallacy called "Appeal to nature". Humans have reason and, if you believe in God, free will.

I love Nate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYOs7j07WKU

Animals don't have moral status.

>>213938786
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

>>213941598
No. Like I said you don't "lose sentience" when you go to sleep. It is a quality that is acquired, then is more active or less active. That is not the same as "not sentient".

>>213936370 (OP)
The Bible succinctly answers any and all questions about this subject.

>>213941584
>there are plentiful alternatives
>and are easy to acquire that can easily replace animals as part of our diet
This is only true if you live in some kind of white bread suburbia with a well stocked grocer that you can afford. For the rest of the planet this is not practical.

>>213941642
What do you mean it "isn't plentiful". You realize we have to grow crops, specifically to feed the animals we raise to slaughter, which is significantly less efficient than growing crops to feed humans directly, right?

>>213941631
Can literally be used to justify any psychopathy
>I enjoy killing puppies for fun
>if I don't get to kill puppies for fun, I get depressed
>Depression is a terminal condition. So I need to kill puppies to live. It's about survival
or even
>I need to kill humans for pleasure
>if I don't kill humans for pleasure, I get depressed

>>213941804
No, that's not true at all. Vegetables and plant based protein, broadly speaking, are actually significantly cheaper than most meat and animal products.

The only exception are highly processed foods like Beyond Meat, which are not necessary for a vegan diet.

>>213936370 (OP)
>vegan
vegan people are in the wrong. the proper food is lacto-vegetarian. you can be moral being lacto-vegetarian

>>213941819
>which is significantly less efficient than growing crops to feed humans directly, right?
This is incorrect. Animal products are more nutrient dense, this is not up for debate. There has never been a efficient monoculture vegan argisystem in 150,000 years of human canon because it isn't more efficient. You can prove me wrong by listing all the wildly successful purely vegan agrarian societies and cultures.

>>213941914
Most of the world does not have access to 'cheaper' planet based proteins, sir.

>>213941914
Yeah but plant protein sucks ass compared to animal proteins. Here's some science for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_digestibility_corrected_amino_acid_score#Example_values

I'm going to keep eating meat, as much as I want, whenever I want, wherever I want, and there's literally NOTHING you can do about it. How does that make you feel, vegancucks?

>>213936370 (OP)
Only impotent fags think that killing is immoral in the first place.

>>213936370 (OP)
>Do you think it's possible to be a moral person without being vegan?
well that depends, do you think it's possible for you to go fuck yourself?

I don't eat pork cause of some vague 'pigs are smarter than dogs and you wouldnt eat your dog' bullshit I saw on /ck/ like a decade ago
absolute state of me

corn field threshers literally shred to pieces little field mice. there is no winning

>>213936370 (OP)
>cherrypicks farms with the shittiest conditions that only produces for people in their little 150 population town then present it like it's what every single farm in America looks like

>>213941408
>>213941426
Life is life regardless of your personal perception of reality, you have no right to claim one life greater than another.

>>213936370 (OP)
I think it's impossible to be a moral person without eating meat. It's trannyism of the diet.

>>213943533
then why can I claim one life and not another? you can make whatever axiomatic claims you want, doesn't make them true.

>>213940548
I accept your concession. I have eater old cow meat, old horse meat. You're just a pampered sitty.

>>213943533
Animals also lack consciousness. They can't contemplate pain (or anything for that matter);they merely just feel, their passions drive their every movement. They lack higher reasoning and a will.
Any suggestion beyond this is just the human need to relate to things not like us.

>>213940076
>herzogmaxxing

>>213936802
Finally some good fucking slop
>>213937101
Plants are alive btw.
So are unborn children.
So are the bacteria on your skin.
Alive doesn't mean "provokes affective emotion in me directly so I never have to think or consider my own morals cognitively", you dumb hypocritical woman

>They can't contemplate pain
This has to be bait.

>>213943610
Feeling pain isn't a barometer of life and it never has been. You're making up definitions to suit your personal feelings about a subject.

>>213943631
But that's true of vegans, homosexuals, and most women and minorities, hence why they refuse to make the distinction

>>213943689
just describing things outside my window, bro. I can step on all the bugs I want. nobody cares. I would be murdering all these seagulls to, if that wasn't made illegal by some bitch in the capital. actually, I may start to kill them anyway when I can get away with it. fuck seagulls, if you don't hate and want to kill them then you're not human. anyway, all life is not equal.

>>213940076
This is not an argument. You're making niggerlicious spooky assumption about the qualia of lower lifeforms that have less intelligence projecting all kinds of ideas.

The fact is that there's such a thing as a chicken "in a good state, in good spirit" whatever you want to call that and there's a chicken "in a bad state, in low spirit". Put these two under rigorous examination and you'll find behavior and biological differences.

My argument is for a chicken to live and then be killed without suffering, as should all beings on earth because we humans have developed enough for this.

Your whole post reads like a reddit lover who read a few blogs on philosophy. Shameful.

>You literally only think like this because you've never been around chickens, or cattle or horses for that matter, for any extended period of time
Neah, that's you. I grew up on a farm. You're just not psychologically mature enough to realize that you're wrong because it's convenient.

>>213944006
Why are you trying so hard to fit in while also spewing reddit bullshit?

>>213943736
Really it boils down to the condition on the heart. If killing an animal is done so for sustinence, then it is good. If killing an animal is done for sport or to pleasure a vengeful heart, then it is evil.
Killing animals for sport trains the heart to submit to its evil passions instead of extinguishing them. This would thus lead to a hardness of heart and degraded treatment of one's fellow neighbor. The act of killing an animal in itself is a morally neutral act as it can be ordered to good ends just as easily as it can be ordered to evil ends.

>>213936512
lmfao

>>213941293
you have to be above the age of 18 to post here

>>213938757
They are sometimes less overweight, but they are extremely unhealthy and mentally unstable. There are no exceptions.

>>213940865
None of what you said makes a lick of goddamn sense.

Religious people are inherently amoral.

>>213945491
Says the amoral godless heathen provocateur

>>213944168
Mirror mirror on the wall.
You have to go back nigger.

Hitler was vegan

>>213936370 (OP)
virtue is dominance

>>213936370 (OP)
Yes, I do. There are animals I eat, and animals I don't eat. The ones I eat are cultivated for food. The ones I don't eat I take a 'live and let live' attitude toward. I don't like killing animals for food, but I want to eat their flesh. I'm much more concerned with keeping humans alive than animals.

>>213936623
We're above animals and have to transcend above relying on them for sustenance.

>>213946067
Look at India... That worked out great. Nobody ever died from malnutrition over there.

>>213945811
Go blow up people, Ahmed.

Same poltard threads over and over. Nazi and income agitation threads up soon.

It's not possible to be a moral person and vegan. Being ignorant does not absolve your actions.

no but I saw the prior propaganda "Food Inc". I don't care. I live in the south/midwest and it's all cattle ranches here and I buy from local farmers as much as I can. I also literally don't care. If cows could rise up and organize society they would do the same thing. It is what it is. If they didn't want to be factory farmed to feed us they should have thought about sucking less ass and figuring out how to beat coyotes in the meta.

>>213946379

this 500.000th chris watts thread died for this, sad

>>213940948
yeah but vegans are all skinny fat retards and if you organize a vegan society you end up with India which is full of dead eyes retards who breed like deer and shit openly like deer and have the spacial cognition of a toddler.

>>213940282
Russian shill agitation cycle. Mods get paid by the russian government to leave them up.

>>213946282
I'm Catholic, I don't blow people up.

>>213945964
pls stop shilling the fat romanian jew

>>213946379
>these fucking nazi poltards and their....
>animal rights bullshit

>>213940948
>Furthermore, we do not dictate our own morality, based on how other animals behave.
Right, our morality is dictated by God. So it's ok to eat meat except pork or on lent.

>>213941144
>Harming or killing animals, needlessly, is wrong. if you disagree, you are a psychopath who thinks someone who kills stray puppies is okay
This is just wrong. People will weight the costs and benefits of something, both things they do themselves and the externalities of things done by others, to determine if it's right or wrong. Most people agree that the poor treatment of farm animals is bad but that it's outweighed by the delicious meat it provides. And most people agree that the torture and killing of pets is wrong and that's it's not outweighed by the pleasure(in fact displeasure) it provides. There is nothing psychopathic about this.

And hypothetically, if society was filled with psychopaths who enjoyed torturing their pets, then they would use the political process to make it legal to do so and you would really have no claim that they're objectively morally wrong for doing so.

>>213941728
As opposed to what? What is your morality appealing to?

>>213946108
They revere animals

>>213936370 (OP)
Yeah, it was all good fun until the island blew up and they had this gay little auction for the rich people. Early dino scenes were pretty good.

>>213936370 (OP)
I dunno, but vegans aren't moral people either

>>213948708
They're more moral than you, in this respect.
Hurting animals for no reason is wrong.

>>213936370 (OP)

Yes if you buy from small free tange farms or hunt for yourself.

>>213940948
Grocery stores and supermarkets are immoral

>>213936370 (OP)
>muh morality
morality is a spook, aesthetics are all that matter

>>213946927
You just rape and molest them instead.

>>213949013
I'm not a homosexual pedophile that infiltrated the seminary post Vatican II either.

>>213948756
>but all the rodents and insects ground up by wheat threshers and poisoned is fine
Also plants can feel pain

>>213936370 (OP)
I would rape and murder your entire family in front of you. Letting you hear the screams of your son, daughter, tiller brother or sister begging you to help them let the pain stop for asking such a stupid fucking question. The answer is no Veganism is the only way to be a moral person.

>>213949138
>tiller brother or sister begging you to help them let the pain stop
O-oni san, please make the pain go away...

>>213936370 (OP)
moral veganism is born out of extreme privilege so no not really

>>213949040
Okay, but silence is violence.

I like meat too much, so instead of stopping completely I just took 5 minutes out of my day to look up which meat brands sold in my local store have a good reputation for animal welfare, and I only buy that. Simple as

Veganism is the result of richfags creating solutions to imaginary problems because their lives were too comfortable, and they had nothing better to do. It's a form of moral posturing to cope with their character flaws and privilege.

Vegas are cringe. However if you're going to raise animals for slaughter/food (which is fine), at least let them have some room to roam and live. Seeing pigs or chickens all packed super close seems kinda not cool, also make sure their deaths are fast and painless of course

These are regular agitation propaganda threads paid for by the russian government.

>>213949391
I think one anon said it best. Those inhumane factory farms are cherry picked examples and are exceptions to the norm.
Besides, you can go into a store and see plenty of animal products labelled as free range and the like. Going to farm markets and supporting small farms/homesteads is also a solution.
Frankly, I don't think there's some grand cult of sadists that get off to animal torture and profit from selling the carcasses like vegans pretend there is.

>>213949740
>pic
good. ai chat bots are tools of satan.
reason is a divine gift from God, and a machine cannot reason.

>>213949391
What if a competing farm min/maxes and customers buy only from his farm because his meat is slightly cheaper than yours?

>>213950008
Then it comes back to >>213936916
All you can do is decide for yourself what kind of meat industry you want to support, if any. But if poor people want meat too and are willing to accept some animal cruelty, who are you or I to stop them?

>>213936512
LMAO

>>213936623
Humans are omnivores and can cater almost any food to be more palatable. Most animals just have to put up with what evolution gave them or die.

>>213943610
So if I scratched the inside of my cheek, you deem that morally equivalent to stepping on grass, which is morally equivalent to killing a stray puppy, which is morally equivalent to killing a human child

Obviously not. The delineating factor is that most animals we eat have a CNS that gives them the capacity to feel pain, emotions like fear, and suffering in ways similar to us. Anything else is meatfag mental gymnastics

>>213936623
Vegans are satanists, don't mind their ramblings of morality.

>>213936370 (OP)
In nearly every civilized country it's against the law to treat animals badly, even in "industrial meat grinders" like this.
So if a company is breaking against the law and treat the animals like shit, the consumers shouldn't be shamed.

>>213942125
Not true. Even if that was the case, though, that isn't applicable to you, now, is it? If you're using the internet, you obviously have access to shit like grocery stores, which means you have access to cheap vegetables and plant based proteins

>>213942365
No. In that list, onions protein is literally higher than beef. When people say "plant proteins are worse" it's because they have a meatfag's understanding of what protein is.

All protein is made up of amino acids, some foods are made up of "complete" proteins that have all of the amino acids we need. Others have proteins that are not made up of all the amino acids we need. Even in the case for the latter, you can easily make up for a "complete" protein by eating a variety of food. For example, a peanut butter sandwich is all you need to form a "complete protein"

>163 replies
i'm not even gonna read the thread, you people are all retards

>>213950896
Any dude worth his salt in any form of athleticism is eating meat. And if he claims veganism, he's most certainly supplementing with gear.
But go ahead, shoot yourself in the feet and tell me how you'll still win the 100m sprint.
Veganism only makes sense from a moral argument, and even there it falls apart under objective scrutiny.

>>213950799
It's mental gymnastics to destroy your health with a plant-only diet and use CNS a separating line for morality. Plants can feel pain too.

>>213950896
>that isn't applicable to you, now, is it?
It's applicable to billions of people. You're lying to yourself if you really think a majority of the world has access to strict plant diets. Please argue to point so I can call you mentally ill and dishonest.

Why are vegans so mentally ill? Vegetarians aren't as retarded as they are.

How many years has this guy been making the same thread? I feel like it's been as long as Barneyfag.

>>213948756
>Hurting animals for no reason
it is for a reason, though.

>>213950789
>Humans are omnivores and can cater almost any food to be more palatable
what the fuck are you talking about

>>213936370 (OP)
veganism is retarded. vegetarian I understand and opposing factory farming I fully agree with, but veganism makes no sense. you're not hurting a chicken by collecting the egg it will lay every day no matter what and eating the egg. you're not injuring a sheep by shearing its winter coat and spinning it into wool to make clothes

>>213949740
>muh ruZZian orcs!!!!
every accusation is a confession

>>213949740
You've spammed this image before.

>>213949794
>are exceptions to the norm.
they aren't because of what >>213950008 says. capitalism forces a race to the bottom. not every place raising animals for meat is a horror show, but horror shows are not exceptional.
>labelled as free range and the like
most of that can be bought and paid for regardless of what the actual process is. there's essentially no legal requirement for any of those "green" labels (free range, organic, etc).
> sadists that get off to animal torture and profit from selling the carcasses
they don't get off on the pain, but they do get off on the profits

the answer is to remove the profit motive from meat production. most people agree that raising an animal for food is not wrong but factory farming is wrong. if the people controlled the economy, we could ensure the meat cows/pigs/etc had decent lives

>>213951708
Removing the profit motive from meat production would not change the demand for meat.

>>213950799
Emotion is not the arbiter of what is and isn't moral. You think it is though because you reject a universal objective morality (christianity).

>>213941293
*yawn* it's always the snall-dick niggas with no money or power in life that say this

>>213951823
>literal vegan soiboy with dick on his mind 24/7
Just come out as gay all your peers know.

>>213951554
Most vegans think that taking the egg or shearing a sheep is exploiting the animal without their consent. It might sound retarded at first, but if you think it a bit further, it's logically and morally consistent. There's a lot of sub-divisions of veganism, there are many "vegans" who do eat eggs if they are ethically collected. The vegans you're talking about are all about "we don't need animal products and most of the time in animal industry or farming, the animals get exploited, hence no animal products at all."

>>213951879
>vegan cucks literallly post this gay ass cope on chink made devices wearing singaporean slave labour fast fashion clothes
lol

>>213951823
I've never in my life met a male vegan that wasn't a frail doughboy that couldn't do a single pushup.
And they all insisted they get complete proteins from their diet. I've even had vegan guys seethe at me so bad that they joined the gym with me to "prove" they were not only as strong as me, a meat eater, but that they could surpass me.
They all ended up giving up and acting like bodybuilding or sports are bad or something.

>>213951929
The irony is truly palpable. But you can say the same of rightoids that chimp out over pedophilic elites while supporting the same child slavery products as do vegans.

>>213951747
>>213951708
I live in Finland and I know that majority of our farms are not profitable by themselves, they're heavily supported by the government in order to keep food prices somewhat low. I think that this is the case in most countries as well. There's no profit in meat production without government support. Just think about it, if you don't have tons of land where animals can eat grass as much as they want, you'll have to buy the food and that is expensive as fuck in the long term. Not to mention other up-keeping and logistics of it all. Farming meat is almost never profitable.

>>213951932
I agree with your sentiment but why are you going out on dates to the gym with vegan homosexuals. Did the tren make you lust for skinnyfat twinks?

It does suck that we have to eat themse beautiful creatures. Oh well.

>>213951929
Heck yeah, brother. Why don't we all just embrace it and fuck ethics and morals since you cannot be a perfect little angel? Why bother doing one thing right if you don't do everything right, right?

>>213951998
Sounds like something one of the many vegan guys I've met would say. Checks out. Ironically though they'll say this and insist that homosexuality is a good thing so their weird accusation has no teeth to it.

>>213952014
Get the fuck off the internet little retard. Im not the blatant hypocrite that enjoys unethical products as long as they make your life more convenient. And with vegans its not even that.
Every ethical vegan Ive met owns a pair of leather boots or a bag and when you call them out they cope by saying it was a gift and wearing it wont unkill the animal.

>>213952049
Why are you meeting so many vegan gays brodie?
Get off Grindr.

I am a Christian. Animals are flesh automatons with no soul. God approves eating meat in Genesis 9:3. Jesus approves of crated veal in the parable of the Prodigal Son in Luke 15; the father (who represents God) keeps “fattened calves” and orders one slaughtered for the feast on his son’s return.

Marry and reproduce, you are putting your God-given paternal feelings onto base animals.

>>213952014
We have a moral framework to adhere to though, and it's called christianity.
But you don't like that so you just pretend to have authority over morals and dictate what others can and can't do based on how it makes you feel.

There was a post on /adv/ I read many years ago from an Australian who worked as one of those cattle farms using a boltgun to kill the cows. It was one of the most terrifying posts I've ever seen, he talked about how he dreamt of the cows he killed and it made him hate the cows because they haunted him. The entire process seems extremely inhumane and

It tracks with what I've heard that people who work at slaughterhouses have like hugely increased rates of suicide, and workplace violence towards coworkers.

I'm too financially insecure to be a vegan, I'm too selfish in prioritizing that over morality. But if I made more money I'd only eat ethically sourced meats and animal products.

Also I feel like antinatalism and veganism fit in the same moral framework and if you're one it makes sense to be the other

>>213951932
>>213951998
Pic related, Patrick Baboumian, strong man with quite impressive titles. He has been vegan all of his career.

Also, in my gym there's some 40-yo dude who is jacked as fuck and wears "vegan"-shirts.

>And they all insisted they get complete proteins from their diet
Bro, you know that your body breaks down every single protein to amino acids? You don't need "complete proteins" as long as you're getting variety of amino acids.

>>213952108
God also tolerated slavery, when he could have destroyed all slave owning societies. In fact, he freed the Hebrew slaves from the Egyptians, but allowed the non-Hebrew slaves to either remain slaves, or die from the plagues

>>213952104
Why are you talking about faggots in the first place anyway? Are you a fag? No one brought up fags except you.
Weirdo.

>>213952072
You think that being vegan is convenient? It isn't, it's hard as fuck. I tried it for a few months and gave up because every food tasted like shit and diets required planning. I don't know about vegans that you've met, but I'm quite certain that most vegans prefer ethical products all in all.

>>213952115
I don't though. I'm not vegan, but I respect veganism.

>>213952159
Youre the one that brought up going to the gym with gay vegans and having lift offs at the gym.
Completely normal and hetero behaviour by the way.

>>213952126
Hear hear.

>>213952129
>vegan
>blasts roids
Funny how that works.

>>213952129
>Buh buh what about muh 1 outlier
There's no point in arguing with you. The vast, vast majority of vegan men are leftist doughboys that viciously hate any masculine show of force or bravado.
I've seen it time and time again as I know you have too. Sorry, you aren't convincing anyone here but yourself of the cult you want to adhere to.

Go vegan. Search your feelings, you know it to be true

>>213952197
None of them we're homosexuals, you read that in yourself. They were leftists that hated masculinity albeit, but they were still straight.
And funny you think strength competitions are gay. You are just proving my original point and not even realizing it.

>>213952234
>jeet ai slop
>vegan
checks out actually

https://youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko?si=cFoSUvVYx-uSjIRU&t=2002

Damn... imagine this just being your job, basically smashing the shit out of chicks until they die...

>>213952004
they should try not tasting so good

Morality stems from religion, and God told us to eat animals. That's it. You can't use "morality" as an argument because all vegans are atheists

>>213952197
Damn, how much of a dyel are you lmao.
You're literally seething at the thought of healthy, masculine competition so much so you're projecting homoerotic fantasy onto it to make it palatable to (You).
Vegans really are something else.

>>213952351
see
>>213952139

>>213952351
Correct.

>>213952217
>>213952222
I mean, he's competing with meatheads shooting roids. There's olympic athletes as well who've been vegan all of their career and achieved medals. There's plenty of athletes and fit people who are vegan.

>The vast, vast majority of vegan men are leftist doughboys that viciously hate any masculine show of force or bravad
I don't disagree. Most vegans become so from compassion and it's a feminine trait most often. That said, this doesn't mean that you cannot be fit, masculine and healthy with vegan diet. The fucking billionaire who plans to live forever (idk name, but you all know it) is 100 % vegan and he's quite fit for +40 yo. You think that the guy who used millions to optimize healthy diet chose veganism for no reason?

>>213952139
>God also tolerated slavery,
No, he didn't, God doesn't" tolerate" anything. Men are free to do as they please.

>>213952126
Veganism fits in the whole leftist moral framework. An animal is to a vegan as what a woman is to a feminist and what a colored person is to a woke social activist.

They see taking a chicken's eggs or sheering off a sheep's wool the same as taking away a woman's reproductive rights and the same as rape. They see wild animals eating other wild animals the same as colored people committing crimes out of necessity. While simultaneously advocating for animal welfare, they see themselves as the superior lifeform and don't want live or be anywhere near animals. Most if not all vegans live in cities and have never touched an animal their whole life besides common pets.

>>213952353
>>213952273
Im not a vegan or a faggot. Im just laughing because your shitpost was so fucking gay.
Really? Vegan soiboys get aggro at you for eating meat no homo and calling them weak so they challenge you to a lifting contest so you can hang out in the sauna afterwards.
Do you retards even think before you type up these dumbfuck fantasies?

>>213952399
He did tolerate it, he just said you can't beat the shit of your slave so badly that they can't recover
>Men can do what they please
Then why did God destroy human societies that did things he didn't like? See: the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah...

>>213936370 (OP)
Veganism is a literal death cult. You need animal fats and proteins to live as a human, avoid disease and malnutrition. I do agree that our livestock should be treated well and with as much respect as possible. This means consciously ignoring the factory farming system and vying for local farmer options whenever one can.

>>213952379
>There's olympic athletes as well who've been vegan all of their career and achieved medals.

They became vegan only after building up their bodies with meat-based diets.

>>213952379
Shooting roids is in a category of its own. You can have a diet of poptarts and still win competitions.
There really are not any masculine vegans out there let alone fit ones. And if there are, they are usually soft vegans that still gets supplementation and other medical interventions.
Also the dude you're talking about who plans to live forever is on a cocktail of drugs and supplements. The veganism doesn't have much to do with it.

>>213952470
Why you are coping this hard?

>>213936623
It’s not eating animals, it’s factory farming. You’re essentially torturing them before you eat them which makes them release stress chemicals which lowers your iq

>>213952453
No, you dumb fuck. God is beyond all that shit, I'm not talking about some bearded guy up in the clouds, that's retarded. God is part of everything in the universe. The ONLY thing God did say is to eat animals. But human morality stems from religion. Religion is human. Well, look at me, just rambling again. Anyway, fuck vegans.

>>213952492
>Shooting roids is in a category of its own. You can have a diet of poptarts and still win competitions.
Think about your statement for a while. Vegan roider vs omnivore roider. If you understand anything about metabolism or human physiology in general, you'll realize that you just baboon'd real hard there.

You're literally arguing against dozens of meta-analysis and other scientific data.

>>213952449
Then we can agree, neither of us are homosexuals.
Just say you don't like the fact that I've had vegans try "prove me wrong" by going to the gym to spite me. Stop hamfisting gay shit into everything, it's weird and gross.

>>213951852
>>213951932
I'm not vegan. I'm also not so completely insecure and angry at my own position in life that I say shit like "extinction is a blessing we give animals". You have a small dick.

>>213952115
>Vegans
>4cuck christlarpers
I don't know who's worse

Ive shot armadillos with a fully automatic weapon. Seethe.

Plants are also life that react to negative stimulus. I don’t fucking understand the fucking fixation on cows.

>>213952457
Veganism is a 1st worlder invented problem. Their access to healthcare and modern medicine makes their diets inconsequential.
If we can keep hambeasts that live off of 6000 calories a day of fast food sludge, it'd be effortless to keep some grazing leaf eater alive.

>>213952561
Nice strawman. No one you quoted said that edgy incel shit.
They just rightfully called you gay and you proved them right by resorting to woman tier arguments.

>>213952587
This is retard hick shit. Armadillos are cool as hell

>>213952561
Why did you quote me?

>>213952607
So many vegans are pajeetlovers and live jeet coded lifestyles because they are in love with buddhism(teravada the most jewish type) and yoga.

>>213952566
No larp. I'm unironically Catholic and have been all my life.

>>213952680
>I'm unironically gay and have been all my life.
Good to know faggot

>>213952402
>>213952659
this threads definitely getting axed after redpills like this

>>213952716
Namaste

>>213952402
>wokewokewokewokewoke

>>213952553
He's right though, albeit very hyperbolic.
A clean diet whether it's vegan, omnivore, or carnivore, will lead to athletic success provided there is discipline, consistent training, quality rest, and a healthy supply of gear.
Take gear out of the equation and omnivores come out on top almost always.

>>213952607
Because plants are not sentient. Unless you think stepping on grass is the same thing as stomping on a puppy, or a human baby?

Also, even using your own logic eating meat is still worse because we have to grow crops to feed the animals we raise for slaughter

It's ogre. There's no defending it

>>213952767
Wait... crackerbarrels stocks tanked over a logo change?
Buy buy buy! They will make a comeback. These fast food chains always do.

>>213952831
God and his church said I can eat meat so whatever you lose. Keep worshipping shiva or whatever 11 armed elephant

>>213936754
BISONED.COM

>>213952831
>Because plants are not sentient.

Chicken eggs and braindead people aren't sentient either.

>>213936370 (OP)
SAAAR DO NOT EAT OF THE SACRED COW SAAR ONLY PARTAKE OF THE DUNG AND URINE

>>213952831
>Because plants are not sentient
From Oxford, you simply are both ignorant AND mentally retarded as you clearly can't even conceptualize that something alien like plants (from a human point of view) can indeed be both intelligent and sentient, you simply lack the necessary IQ to empathize with something that doesn't coincide with your canon of cute.

>>213952947
>with morden skin care
lmao
i don't think some essential oil is going to make me more confident

>>213952970
>local moron believes in The Giving Tree

>>213952402
Bro dropping trvkes

You can see the degeneration in the human form that modern industrial diets have caused when you compare skull sizes and jaw development. Wisdom teeth are a modern phenomenon.

>>213952943
Chicken eggs are bad because of the meat industry. Namely they will mass slaughter male chicks specifically because they can't lay eggs

The hens that we have selectively bred for factory farming lay hundreds of eggs a year... their ancestor (the red jungle fowl) does not lay anywhere near that many eggs. Their bodies are not designed to lay that many eggs, that often. Because of this the hens that lay eggs end up molting due to vitamin and mineral deficiencies. Most hens meant to lay eggs in factory farms often get killed within 18 months because of this

>>213936370 (OP)
If all of humanity turned vegan it would mean the genocide of all livestock, whether by slaughter or starvation if they were just set free. Yeah, I get that all their suffering would be over, but it still doesn't sit right with me.

>>213952970
And like I said, even if you logically believe that (your source is already high questionable and doesn't elaborate how, exactly, plants are sentient), you now have to defend
1. Stepping on grass is equatable to killing a puppy or a human baby, which virtually no one on the planet actually believes
2. That even if that was the case, eating animals still causes more harm and kills more, because we have to grow additional crops and plants specifically to feed the animals we are also raising for slaughter

I have already defined what separates plants from animals. Plants do not have a CNS. Random cells on our body do not have a CNS either. This is why scratching your arm, or the inside of your cheek, is not the same as murder. This is very basic logical consistency

>>213952864
>cracker barrel
>fast food

>>213952767
is this what qualifies as a counterargument in your country?

>>213941914
Plant-based protein is VASTLY inferior to animal-based protein. There are over 15 micronutrients needed for human health that are NOT found in fruit, grains and vegetables but are found in meat. Supplements are largely insufficient in fulfilling these micronutrient needs at best and at worst are incredibly hepatotoxic, especially with long-term use that a vegan death cult "lifestyle" demands.

Monoculture farming is not natural. Pasture grazing on grasses and in the woods is ideal for the main forms of livestock that humans have developed over the last 12,000 years. There is no need to grow crops to feed the livestock since most of the crops are bad for them and are only useful in certain survival situations. As it stands, most livestock is so largely dependent on human care that it would be truly inhumane to release them into the wild.

>>213952561
Shut up retard

>>213953254
see
>>213950896

>>213936370 (OP)
Trump and all of his minions deserve the pig treatment now

>>213953254
kys before you get put in the pig vat

>>213953135

>I have already defined what separates plants from animals. Plants do not have a CNS. Random cells on our body do not have a CNS either.

Nta, but that's not how science defines the difference between plants and animals. Even if we go by your idiosyncratic definition, it doesn't make sense. Are you implying that subdivisions of an animal aren't animals?

>This is very basic logical consistency
There's no logical consistency because scratching your arm or the inside your cheek can cause murder if it results in an infection that kills you.

>1. Stepping on grass is equatable to killing a puppy or a human baby, which virtually no one on the planet actually believes
That's a strawman. Regardless whether or not plants are sentient, there's only one definition of killing. You end the life of a living thing. Virtually no one believes sentience is a factor in the morality of killings except for vegans. It's a anthropocentric view that only life that sentient is the higher lifeform.

>2. That even if that was the case, eating animals still causes more harm and kills more, because we have to grow additional crops and plants specifically to feed the animals we are also raising for slaughter

Is preventing the existence of a population of animals for food better than eating them? Forcing humanity to go vegan would require most if not all farm animals to be killed because non of them could survive in the wild. Is non-existence morally superior to existence? What's the point of human existence if you have to deny yourself the pleasures of life, one of which is eating meat?

>>213953109
you're a complete fucking retard that doesn't even make sense faggot ass bitch lol

>>213953513
He makes perfect sense why are you being a little bitch and getting all up in ya mood hon

>>213950896
The protein and nutrients in plants is nowhere near as bioavailable as in meat and in cases where it's close, the endocrine-disruptors like glyphosate and microplastics as well as anti-nutrients that plants create to prevent being consumed all remove the bioavailability even further.

Plants are a survival food when animal flesh isn't available. Animal meat and fat are our optimal food. If you just eat survival food for your whole life you will develop a multitude of nutrient deficiencies, a whole host of autoimmune and chronic diseases and eventually die young. Veganism is a death cult.

>>213953297
"Onions" protein is less bioavailable than meat protein. Not only that but you purposely ignore the multitude of anti-nutrients, toxins and pesticides that come with it that is not present in meat protein. Even if you buy "organic onions", they still have the natural defense chemicals present in them that only exceptionally long-term cooking removes (along with any little nutritional value that was present in the first place), since plants don't want to be fucking eaten either (fruits being an exception). "Onions" protein specifically mimics the hormone estrogen when processed in the body.

There's a reason why kikes that control the government and Big Agro push this shit -- they want men weak, effeminate and docile, while they want women pushy, hysterical and insane. Pushing endocrine-disrupting foods is ideal for this purpose.

>>213953381
The best things about vegans is that they are self-deleting after about ten years at most. Either they swap to meat or they die from malnutrition.

>>213936370 (OP)
>Do you think it's possible to be a moral person without being vegan?

Do you think it's possible to not be a narcissist while also being vegan?

>>213936370 (OP)
I BELIEVE WE SHOULD STOP EATING COW AND COW RELATED PRODUCTS ONLY
FISH CHICKEN AND REPTILES ARE BRAINDEAD PRIMITIVE LIFE FORMS THAT DESERVE TO BE EATEN AND HAVE NO ILL EFFECTS ON OVERCONSUMPTION, MAMMALS ARE FRIENDS, SCALY BASTARDS GO RIGHT TO THE GRILL

>>213953780
Wtf do you have against onionns brother?

>>213937538
That's a false equivalence, where you are equating diet to malevolent acts of violence. Hope this helps. You also add in the extra conditional modifier of them being "wild" specifically, changing his original argument, because you're a disingenuous faggot without an argument. Hope this helps.

>>213936370 (OP)
>>213936623
>>213937101
>>213937538
>>213937646
>>213938757
>>213939428

>>213947532
nu

>>213936370 (OP)
caging and eating mammals is immoral. birds are borderline. fish and water bugs all you can eat

>>213954072
kino

>>213954090
This zoomer trend of calling crustaceans "bugs" is really tiring. It's equivalent to saying Reptiles and Mammals are the same thing because they fall under the same phyla. It's retarded.

>>213952617
Don't know how to read a thread?

>>213936370 (OP)
Politicization and factionalism is so bad in the US that you can’t even approach this topic apolitically. If you naively push the empathy angle you’ll get people like this >>213936512
who will eat veal and shark fin soup just to spite the libs.
Unironically you’ll have an easier time getting the right to care if you spread some fake news about how cooped up chickens release hormones into their bloodstream that cause kids to want to cut their dicks off and the Jews running Big Nugget try to suppress this information because it eats into their profit margins and simultaneously get Jon Oliver and Colbert to talk about how the studies are pseudoscientific right wing conspiracies.

>>213954248
what exactly do you think these are, nigger

>>213954313
That's a woodlouse. Did you have an argument?

>>213954275
>getting the right to care
About what exactly?

>>213954275
the us is just a failed society at this point. when you spend 40 years telling people not to give a shit about anyone but themselves, they eventually listen

>>213948171
Nigga I am evil

>>213948171
Now, a serious answer, my morals, most of the time, are based on reason and/or logical arguments.

>>213940501
High empathy

>>213936370 (OP)
>Have you seen this movie?
while eating steak
>Do you think it's possible to be a moral person without being vegan?
yes now go choke on a carrot faggot

>>213954275
>If you naively push the empathy angle you’ll get people like this

The empathy angle will never work when you put animal suffering above human suffering.

>>213940501
You will eliminate potential competitors by making them dependent on you.

>>213951708
That's all already been addressed.
>>213936916
>>213950681

>>213953780
Onions protein literally is not "less bioavailable" that article he linked flat out said that onions protein is more efficient in terms of digestion than beef when taking into account both amino acid composition and digestibility
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_digestibility_corrected_amino_acid_score#Example_values

This is another meatfag argument that is mindlessly regurgitated (often by the Joe Rogan audience) and also fails to address the fact that the bioavailability and amino acid composition of plant proteins can easily be compensated by just eating a diverse diet
>antinutrients, toxins, pesticides
All of this is applicable to animal products as well, and like I mentioned before, the negatives are outbalanced by simply eating a variety of food (i.e.. not only eating literally rice and nothing else, for example)

>>213953593
see
>>213956018

>>213956018
Also, supplements that exist (for B12, for example) already take into account bioavailability of the sources of their vitamins and minerals and adjust the quantity accordingly

>>213952364
What's the argument? You can't use God tolerating slavery as a moral argument against religion because you first need to establish that slavery is wrong beyond it hurting your feelings.

>>213956125
So slavery is objectively good then, because God said so. Except, not even that is consistent because God specifically freed the Hebrew slaves. So I guess it's "slavery is good, but only when it happens to the Jews, it's bad".

Meatfag mental gymnastics
>Stepping on grass is as bad as killing a puppy
>Killing a stray puppy, for fun, is no big deal
>Slavery is good, actually, because God said so (although slavery against Jews is bad)
versus
>Don't eat animals or animal products because it entails harming them unnecessarily and there are alternatives that are easily accessible
Meatfags are now defending slavery (except for Jews) because they want to eat meat. Lmao

We are winning the evolutionary race, and had the shoe been on the other foot we'd be in the industrialized slaughterhouses.
Treatment of animals should improve because some of the factories really make a temporary pit of hell for living beings we haven't had the decency to genetically lobotomize yet

If you go for a schizo interpretation of reality, its totally fine because consciousness is a farce
We're just the current iteration of the human species harvesting lower life forms to bring that planetary energy to a more worthwhile/complex existence
Their suffering is irrelevant because once they die their miserable lives are converted to a higher form of consciousness
After all they are just sources of energy for the flesh automatons animated by neurotransmitters

>>213955651
What does that mean? Logic can't determine how you ought to be.

>>213956018
There's still no evidence that vegan diets are healthy. In fact, most evidence point to the opposite.

>>213956196
Yes, God's chosen people are allowed to enslave gentiles. Before Jesus that was Jews, after Jesus it is the elect.
>Don't eat animals or animal products because it entails harming them
So what? Why is harming them bad?

>>213956339
So if the Jews enslaved white people you would be okay with that. If they enslaved you (I'm assuming you aren't Jewish) you would be fine with that too

We've gone from
>I want to eat meat
to
>It's okay for Jews to enslave me and white people
The logic of meatfags, on full display. Lmao

>>213953839
Allicin is toxic, but it's probably okay as a hormetic in small amounts. I was using "onions" as a place word for s 0 y though which is even worse for you than actual onions.

Pro-tip: whenever you see a vegan wanting to debate, just agree with them and tell them about antinatalism. Tell them to read this book. This shit is a mind virus that targets people with the same morality as vegans. Then just sit back and let them remove themselves from the gene-pool instead of having a gay debate about it.

>>213956387
Modern Jews are not among the elect.

>>213956261
When I get tempted by my natural instincts I do not immediatly follow what my flesh desires (most of the times), but instead I think about the consequences of my actions to decide about them.
And yes, you can logically make arguments for something being evil or good if you appeal to virtue. Stealing is evil. You can be naturally tempted to steal, yet you can logically arrive at the thought of stealing not being virtuous.

>>213956488
>you can logically arrive at the thought of stealing not being virtuous.
How? Walk through the logical steps.

To summarize this thread
>Vegan
Don't eat animals, because it harms then unnecessarily

>Carnivore
Stepping on grass is as bad as killing a puppy

When you scratch your arm you're committing murder, since cells are alive

It's okay for someone to just kill a stray cat for fun

Slavery was good, actually, and the Jews should be allowed to enslave us all because they're God's chosen

>>213956427
This is true. Veganism is a death cult pushed by oversocialized, deeply narcissistic yet mentally weak and emotionally stunted people. The ideology is exactly in the same vein as antinatalism. It is inherently antihuman, which is why the powers that be push it so much.

>>213956564
Actually it's:
>Vegan
Don't eat animals, because it harms them unnecessarily, which is morally wrong because... uh not God since God's not real... uh... because it just is ok!

>Carnivore
Morality is fake and gay. The pleasure of eating an animal outweighs the displeasure of knowing it experienced harm. Therefore, eat animals.

>>213956564
You're a brainwashed oversocialized retard putting animal welfare above human health and using false equivalencies and strawmen to do so. Enjoy your tooth decay, IBS, eczema, osteoporosis, constant fatigue and taking dozens of hepatotoxic drugs just to get an inferior amount of nutrients from eating a rare steak or liver.

>>213956690
>Morality is fake
Lies. You don't believe that. If someone beat a dog with a brick, right in front of you, you would think that's psychotic. Because you do not actually believe morality is fake

>>213956972
I believe it would cause me displeasure to witness a dog be abused. I believe this to mostly be an evolved response due to the symbiosis humans and canines have had for millennia. I do not however believe this means that it is objectively wrong to abuse dogs and I believe it is your burden of proof to demonstrate that it is.

>>213955928
>said the chink as he ate another dog

>>213936370 (OP)
>entire thread of overcomplicating a simple thing
Taking an animals life is perfectly fine, keeping an animal captive so you can eat it is fucked up.

Hunt, forage and garden. I don't hunt right now, so I eat plants and eggs only. Once I can hunt I will eat what I kill/fish etc.

>>213940865
The words 'need' and 'needless' have a scope that depends from person to person.
What really 'needs' to be done, anyway? Is it just direct survival that you'll allow as a need? Suppose a wasp nest is in my backyard and that I'm liable to get stung by them on occasion. Assume there's zero possibility that I might die from it. Surely I can call pest control to eradicate them, no? What about stepping on other bugs and killing them carelessly? I didn't need to do that, but I did out of convenience. Am I morally wrong for doing that?
I think you risk calling a lot of human behaviour wrong when most of it is due to convenience and easy living. This goes to point two of that syllogism as well. I don't 'have to' eat animals and it might be possible to live off of artificial/plant stuff, but it'd make my life worse because it's annoying to search out the variety that satisfies the same role. Maybe when you can duplicate animal meat infinitely in a lab then that'd be more convincing.
There's no good, easy substitute for animal meat, it's as simple as that. In taste, nutrition, availability, whatever.
I think most people have this thought process and that's not a bad thing. We morally rank our easy standard of living over the lives of stupid, farm animals. This ranking gets disrupted when you bring factory farming, killing your pets, etc.

>>213956510
Using logic appealing to virtue:
>justice is a virtue
>injustice is not virtuous
>stealing goes against distributive justice
>thus stealing goes against virtue
>thus stealing is not good

Using reason appealing to consequences:
>what consequences will stealing have?
>I will psychologically and economically hurt another person
>I will make another person lose time
>I could steal something unvaluable for the other person
>I could get beaten
>I could get caught
>I could go to jail, which would ruin my life
>I could destroy how others perceive me
>many more, but already with the first ones I wouldn't do it

>>213958250
>justice is a virtue
But that's axiomatic. You can only apply logic after arbitrarily deciding what's virtuous.