Thread 215270483

>studios spend half a century and billions of dollars trying to figure out why it was so succesful
>it must be the aliens (it isn't)
>it must be the jedi (it isn't)
>it must be the lightsabers (it isn't)
>it must be all the crazy different alien worlds (it isn't)
>it must be just the desert planet (it isn't)
>it must be inclusivity and diversity against le heccin evil fascists (it isn't)
>it must be convoluted plots and superweapons (it isn't)
Star Wars was just an extremely accessible ultra simple monomyth farmboy-hero story patterned on samurai-western B movies that didn't take itself too seriously or act like it was some massively important cultural monolith that needed to echo sociopolitical issues. That's the one thing they never tried to do again.

>>215270483 (OP)
I agree with you. And that is why Episode 4 and 5 will always be the best in the franchise.

>>215270483 (OP)
It's all the things you mentioned.

It's time to accept that Lucas was just a genius in the 1970s for a few years and then lost his talent and vision in the 80s while 99% of everyone else in Hollywood is a talentless hack who could never hope to recreate the magic of the original movies.

Asking Hollywood to make anything good related to Star Wars again is like asking Lucas to look like he did in the 70s again it's never going to happen.

>>215270483 (OP)
Episode 4 is literally all you need. The rest detracts from its greatness.

Make the female lead a competent action hero who doesn’t wear underwear

>>215270621
Bro I just saw your image. That's definitely small Luke.

>>215270483 (OP)
No, it was successful because the 1970s were fucking boring. That's all.

It was a combination of al l the points in the OP, and the perfect casting of the three leads.

>>215270483 (OP)
this. it was always his intention to recreate the western serial adventures he loved as a kid. white hats and black hats etc.

>>215270682
ESB is good too, but overrated.

>>215270932
The trouble is ESB demands another movie and another. ANH is a self contained story.

It was successful cause of the effects and the light sabers you dumb fuck

>>215270483 (OP)
that and Luke is super easy to self insert into for a kid and it's literally just
>the heroic farm boy, turned knight, with the help of a wizard saves the princess from the evil dragon/king but in space

>>215270483 (OP)
It did take itself seriously. That doesnt mean it cant be fun.

>>215270483 (OP)
The OT was normie crack at a time where the visual effects and storytelling was groundbreaking, and it had good merchandising and a dedicated fanbase.

Prequels took those dedicated fans and drew in autists with its worldbuilding and lore.

Sequels offered neither the spectacle of the OT or the lore of the prequels so appealed to nobody

>>215270556
This. Star Wars works on multiple levels.

>>215270621
>le saved in the edit
It's because for a new hope and empire he had a lot of other experienced film makers working with him telling him he was a fucking retard when he pushed things too far. He's great with coming up with ideas as part of a group but by the time jedi came out he surrounded himself with too many yesmen who wouldn't push back about shit being retarded. Ford and Luke both told stories about them telling Lucas shit was retarded during a new hope

>>215271443
And the music and the characters and the world building

>>215271535
SW would have been an unremembered sci-flop also-ran if Lucas hadn't been reigned in. You can go and read his early scripts today. They're messes.

>>215270483 (OP)
> Star Wars was just an extremely accessible ultra simple monomyth farmboy-hero story patterned on samurai-western B movies that didn't take itself too seriously

Mandalorian did it and it worked for a whole season

>>215270483 (OP)
Back to the Future captured its essence the best imo

>>215271535
that is just filmmaking in general, if your editor and cinematographer are trash even the best ideas are turned into trash, great artists always take input from their crews and george was no different. Without george lucas there is no Star Wars

>>215271597
Reminder all nu wars is faggot shit.

The space battles are more important and kind than the gay saber fights. Growing up my friends and I used to make little pillow and blanket fortcockpits and we would fly to fighters or awings around

>>215270513
and that's why 4-5-6 will always be the only episodes of the franchise.

George did the filmic equivalent of taking a bunch of lego bricks somebody else made and building a nice house of them. That's not nothing, but it's not everything, either.

>>215270483 (OP)
It's mostly just people having dogshit taste and becoming retarded little manchildren obsessing over children's movies. Nothing is ever going to measure up to manchild nostalgia.

>>215270932
ESB suffers from being the middle movie and can't stand on it's own

>>215271535
>le saved in the edit

I literally didn't say that, retard, I just said he lost his talent after the 1970s. 70s George was a genius unlike all other versions of George.

>>215271615
I saw Stars Wars before your daddy was a twinkle in your grandpas eye

>>215271517
All the prequelshit did is adding midichlorian, making everything about predestination and splitting the force between good force and evil force
the rest was a rehash of OT lore

>>215271665
troon

>>215270483 (OP)
they didn't get it and you also still don't get it. It was harrison ford

>>215271701
harrison fnord
iykyk

>>215270483 (OP)
Prequels may have some bad sides but they spawned and launched the whole EU into mass culture. If you were growing up in the 90s or 00s Star Wars were around you all the time. As books comics and other physical media, as tv and of course as videogames. You and all your buddies would play kotor, jedi knight/jedi academy and watch tcw. I don't feel that it's the same now. I have a feeling that SW is being consoomed much less in the current days.

>>215271668
How did you see star wars 25 years before it came out?

>>215271609
This is another reason why the theatrica lcut is 99% of the times better than the DC.
A directors is biased toward all the parts he made and would want to add everything. He need an outiside perspective that trims away the fat. Same reason the writer cannot just reread his own freshly written book and needs to hand it down to other people for the final check

>>215271696
>troon

I'm sure actual trannies hate the OT because it's too White

>>215271747
>launched the whole EU into mass culture.

The original EU books in the 90s came out way before the prequels and were best sellers.

>>215271751
director worship is a real, most movies nowadays feel like the cutting room floor was left empty, the average movie is too long, every new release wants to be an epic even when its not

>>215271766
Yeah but it was mostly only Thrawn books. The insane amount of new content followed later alongside the prequels or after them.

>>215271535
Found the RLM baby. Needed more JJ Abrams, amirite?

>>215271861
It wasn't, there were way more books and also comics prior to the year TPM came out. There were even video games and a whole media campaign that came out with Shadows of the Empire, which was like the dry run for TPM

>>215271917
Then I remember it incorrectly, probably because I was too young in the early 90s.

>>215271861
Half the boys in my class read the jedi academy trilogy and the tales from books, then there was all the shadows of the empire stuff.

>>215270483 (OP)
No.
It was the incest.

>>215270556
HE DRINK 2 TIME?

>>215271954
So why are you running your mouth? It was the special editions which brought star wars back to the forefront of pop culture.

Lucas is a goddamn genius

>>215271996
Howso?

>>215272532
He made the most culturally significant movie of the last 50 years. Maybe ever.

>>215271609

even Kubrick made sure he hired the best crew with which he could collaborate on ideas (which he then took sole credit for)

>>215272669
every director does that, thats why most new hollywood directors peaked around the same time, taxi driver was edited by Marcia Lucas and the cinematography was done by Chapman. People should stop fellating directors, the scrutiny that Lucas gets should be applied to all directors

>>215271566
And leaving things vague enough to give your own fantasy room to fill in the gaps.

>>215271807
That shit happens because with digital you don't pay for film anymore. Before that if you wasted an extra mile of film you had the producer with the biggest feet in the company coming to kick your ass.
That and competence crisis

>>215271861
quality > quantity

>>215271974
That was only bad because it was incest without any wincest

>>215271443
But the lightsaber duel in ANH sucked. You're literally proving OP right. Nobody can actually describe what made Star Wars good

>>215273163
>But the lightsaber duel in ANH sucked
Says you.

>>215270483 (OP)
You're 100% correct. I fear that time is over though. Americana is dead because of liberals. They destroyed any happiness and America.

>>215271535
No he didn't? We know what advice his film-making friends gave him and it was almost all shit advice. For instance Francis Ford Coppola thought Lucas should've filmed the first draft (that's the version where Luke Skywalker's a 60 year old general, Han Solo's an alien and so on) and it was Lucas who decided to rewrite and rework it. Matt Robbins and Halbarwood were the ones who told Lucas to introduce Luke earlier because they thought opening the movie following the droids for a bit would allienate the audience. Fucking Brian De Palma thought the Force was "faggy" and tried to convince Lucas to cut the "May the force be with you," line out of the movie entirely. And besides all the people on the crew who disobeyed or tried to tell Lucas "no" (such as John Jympson, Gil Taylor and John Dykstra) all got either fired or replaced for Empire... because, y'know, going around refusing to do what the writer/director tells you to do isn't how fucking movies are made (well good ones anyway, Alien 3 was made like that and we all know how that one turned out.)

This isn't to say the prequels are good or anything (godknows I still think Attack of the Clones blows) but I swear Star Wars have invented an entire fictional reality around Star Wars and George Lucas all because they didn't like his later movies. Which is fucking insane because it's literally one of the most well docuemented film productions in history - there are fucking moon landings with less information publicly available on them than we do about the making of A New Hope. Has no one on the internet ever bothered picking a book about any of this?

>>215270973
>ANH is a self contained story.
It's just Star Wars. The 1977 opening crawl had no chapter or title. ANH is never what it was meant to be called, because despite Lucas's revisionist bullshit there was never a sequel planned, much less a multi-chaptered story.
t. mega oldfag who was there in 1977

>>215271996

he is undeniably talented, and you can tell by his contemporaries’ respect for him. he just took a different path. he proved he could make a great New Hollywood film with American Graffiti anyway.

>>215273726
...nah, Lucas was calling the script Episode One (or Saga I depending on which draft you're looking at) as early as the 2nd draft in 1974. That's when he came up with the idea of doing sequels - shit by 1975 we even have him on tape thinking about maybe making a prequel movie as well. Wasn't going to be called A New Hope though, he was thinking of calling it either The Star Wars Episode I/Saga I: The Adventures of Luke Starkiller/Skywalker or have The Star Wars be the subtitle and call the series the adventures of Luke Skywalker/Starkiller

t. guy who actually went and did the reading.

>>215271636
>6

>>215271643
Guy literally took Dune and dumbed it down for the masses

>>215270973
>self-contained story
>main villain survives the end

>>215274755
You did not prove him wrong you sperg

>>215273163
The character interaction and developement is what makes the duel interesting, or any duel interesting. Action itself is secondary.
This is what many don't understand.
Do you think that action (let's say) in Lethal Weapon is interesting because it's well made action? Or it's because you get to lilke Mel and Danny's characters, like theirr dynamic, and are therefore invested in what happens to them and how they get Roger's ass out of that toilet?
People who miss this are flabbergasted at the idea of people liking action in things like the OWvsDV in ANH over the empty ballets of prequels or whtever that was in the sequels. Or Nolan batman fights over more recent crap.
Characters, writing and dialogue makes the action, not the action itself

>>215275188
What? No, I think I did. He was saying "there was never a sequel planned" but I've read the scripts and the making of books and nah, he was planning on making a sequel before making A New Hope. The 2nd draft from January 1975 even ends with a sequel hook for Episode Two at the end (pic related.)

Obviously you can tell it was gonna be a different sequel at this point but that's because the 2nd draft is like halfway there to being A New Hope and still quite different (there's no Obi-Wan or Princess Leia characters in it) he wouldn't have that until the 3rd draft. But we do know this early sequel was gonna feature the battle on the Wookiee planet (which ended up in Return of the Jedi only with Ewoks instead.)

Neat huh? I find the making of Star Wars stuff really fascinating. I swear Star Wars fans keep on making shit up about the production/writing of the movies based on their own feelings or headcannon or whatever but the truth is really well documented, I don't know why Star Wars fans keep making shit up and then get angry at their own false premises. It's very odd.

>>215273254
You wouldn't be able to recreate that original spark either way, and SW, like any other series, should die and remain in the time they were made. But you are 100% right, a new equivalent spark wouldn't be poossible today for that reason, and globalization

>>215270621
>Lucas was just a genius in the 1970s for a few years and then lost his talent and vision

The problem is that once he used his Star Wars money to found Lucasfilm his priorities changed to being a corporate CEO instead of an artistic filmmaker. The toy sales from the first film showed him (and everyone else in Hollywood) that the kids are where the money is made, and so you saw his productions becoming increasingly childish, beginning with ROTJ and continuing through the made-for-television Ewok films and finally culminating in Jar Jar Binks, to the consternation of a teen and adult fanbase who were now too old to enjoy such things.

To be fair to Lucas, he did realise his mistake: he gave Jar Jar a reduced role in Attack of the Clones and then removed him entirely from Revenge of the Sith. I was watching Revenge of the Sith the other day and I think it's a pretty good film if you can overlook that the scenes with General Grevious are essentially toy commercials. As someone who grew up playing Star Wars vidya in the 90s, I always enjoyed the Imperial/Sith aesthetic, and Episode III takes that stuff and puts it to good use. The duel between Obi and Anakin is satisfying for the most part, and it's badass when Obi leaves him there to burn. But no, it doesn't recapture the SOVL of the first film.

3 is the only good movie in this shit franchise

>>215275587
Nah, the impact of toy sales on Lucas has been greatly exaggerated over the years. The real issue was that he always considered Star Wars as being for kids (seriously there's quotes from him from before A New Hope came out where he was already saying "it's really for 12 year olds" - that's not a recent development.) The thing is though - he actually had a kid inbetween making Empire and Jedi, Amanda Lucas, at which point he started aiming his films for his own kids. And at the time Amanda was a baby - hence why the Wookiees became the cuddly Ewoks.

The entire prequel trilogy was essentially made for George's youngest kid at the time, Jet Lucas. And he was born in 1993 so keep in mind what age he would've been when George was writing each respective movie and that's the age George was aiming for. I don't love the prequels (and I think Attack of the Clones is genuinely bad at points) but once you realize that they start to make a lot more sense.

>>215275691
Was the scene were the main character kills a bunch of kids for the kids too?

>>215275724
Yeah, probably to really drive home the morality of the whole thing. Anyway you never see anything - tons of kids watched Revenge of the Sith over the years and weren't scarred from the experience. It's dark but it's still a pretty goofy movie. It's not fucking Salo or Irreversible.

>>215275691
>STAR WARS IS FOR KIDS!!!!
>has sole creative control over an agonizingly boring sloppy trilogy he bases off the Bush administration
yeah man kids love movies about senate delegations arguing about consolidating wartime emergency powers and trade regulations

>>215275781
Isn't Phantom Menace the one little kids tend to love the most? Anyway I'm not defending some of George's later, more baffling creative decisions. I'm just saying that Lucas was saying, "it's for kids" even before the first movie came out. And I swear when Star Wars fans try to claim the originals were mature because you saw the tinniest bit of blood when Obi-Wan cut off that alien's arm or whatever is just the funniest neckbeard cope to me.

>>215270483 (OP)
actually it was that basicbitch servicable plot that wasnt particularly good or bad overlaid with groundbreaking craftsmanship in models and audio that gave its 80s audience the very first modern space fantasy blockbuster.

its a formula that has diminishing returns built in.

>>215275854
>Isn't Phantom Menace the one little kids tend to love the most?
Kids? No. Contrarian manchildren? Yes.

I have literally never met a single person in real life, in any age group, of any "generation", who likes the Phantom Menace. Zero. I have literally never ever seen anyone claim to like the movie outside of 4chan, and the only ones here who do so have nothing positive to say about it, they just treat it as boring tribal war fodder and try to call anyone outside their artificial group chuds or trannies or foids or whatever the slang du joor is. None of these people are socialized.

>>215275920
>the only ones here who do so have nothing positive to say about it

They usually bring up Duel of the Fates and the podracing scene.

>>215270483 (OP)
It is the jedi, stupid
>muh heros journey
There's about a billion of those and none of them have lightsabers

>>215275920
Yeah but you don't know anybody. I loved PM as a kid, it got me into Star Wars. It was huge with kids back then. And now we grew up and we still like it. There's nothing contrarian about it, we always liked it, you just didn't listen to us when we were 12

People act like Star Wars is some inconceivable stroke of brilliance, and that George's genius was necessary to spark it into existence regardless of how much credit you allow him, and it really wasn't. There were many contemporary and prior space adventure/war films, almost all of them universally shoddy. SW won just by having enough effort and production value put into it. It was an inevitability, in all honesty. It offered nothing particularly unique, just done "well enough" for once. If Star Wars had never existed, something else would have almost immediately taken its place within that span of a few years of the late 70s/early 80s.

>>215270483 (OP)
its the sound design but no ones intelligent enough to understand that

>>215270483 (OP)
>>215273163
another thing is that the original star wars is really tightly written and packs a ton of shit that you can speculate about in a relatively short runtime. stuff gets introduced just fast enough that everything has an air of mystery and novelty about it

its almost the perfect movie to have long discussions about after watching it for the first time

>>215270483 (OP)
>it must be the jedi (it is)
>it must be the lightsabers (it is)

>>215275936
I'll grant the soundtrack is pretty good.

>>215275959
>It was huge with kids back then.
No, it really wasn't. Let's see your Dexter Jetster and Qui-Gon toys. Let's see your playset shaped like Watto's head. You're proving my point, I don't think you're an average child, I think you're a developmentally challenged adult.

>>215275965
>If Star Wars had never existed, something else would have almost immediately taken its place within that span of a few years of the late 70s/early 80s.

If that's true, there should have been some space fantasy films that were as good as or better than Star Wars during the 80s and 90s. But there were none reaching the same level of quality.

>>215276004
I thought "Darth Maul" was fucking retarded the very instant I saw him introduced. We didn't need another "Darth". It wasn't even a fucking title back then, it was his NAME. Even disregarding that, literally just replaying the exact same beats of "spooky man in black with red lightsaber" was lame and self-derivative. George copying his own homework was an embarrassment.

>>215275920
Okay. I met one guy who liked it, lot younger than me though. So that's one. Anyway my point was that George Lucas was saying "it's for kids" before the first movie even came out. Star Wars fans seem to get irrationally angry about that for some reason

>>215276031
>If that's true, there should have been some space fantasy films that were as good as or better than Star Wars during the 80s and 90s.
No, because SW filled the niche. Once something won the trophy, everything else tried to be that. Nothing exists in a vacuum, everything that exists is influenced by everything else.

>>215276037
>George Lucas was saying "it's for kids"
I literally don't care about anything George Lucas said or people think he said or how it's supposed to justify any of his bad decisions. All I care about is that he made movies that were really, really bad the more executive control he had over them.

>>215275959
>you just didn't listen to us when we were 12
No, that's not true. They called you stupid for liking it and made it out like it wasn't the "real" Star Wars. Don't you remember? Gen X were fucking insufferable about The Phantom Menace and the prequels for over a fucking decade

>>215270483 (OP)
It comes down to the fact that it's an extremely formulaic but effective story (beat by beat the hero's journey) in an interesting sci-fi setting. It's not some ambitious feat of creative story-telling.

>>215276004
wtf that guy has two?

>>215276068
He had more-or-less complete executive control over the original trilogy, anon. ESPECIALLY the first movie. That whole notion that George Lucas had little-too-no control over the originals (at least up until Jedi because we don't like it as much as the first two) or that people were constantly telling him "no" or "vetoing his bad ideas" or that the first movie was 'saved in editing.' That's all bullshit. Literal neckbeard bullshit - it's just Star Wars fans making shit up because they didn't like the prequels.

And that's fine if you don't like them (personally I only think Attack of the Clones is THAT bad but that's just my opinion) they have plenty of flaws. But that's no excuse for falling for obvious bullshit about one of the most well documented movie productions in cinema history. I swear do Star Wars fans just believe whatever they hear based on... vibes? I don't fucking know, it's so weird and pathetic.

>>215275781
>he bases off the Bush administration
don't go full retard bro

>yeah man kids love movies about
we factually know they did love them, hence the prequel nostalgia wave

>>215275944
There are also a million of starwars and the only ones that people like are hero's journeys

>>215270483 (OP)
It was pandering to Vietnam.

>>215276070
It isn't real star wars and you are stupid for liking them. It was true then, it's true now, it will always be true
Learno to accept that just becasue your 6 yo brain liked something 20 years ago it doesn't mean that it has to be good or right

>>215276004
>does nothing
>say nothing
>dies like a retard
>the end

I never understoon the myth of Boba Fett 8except maybe hype for what you see him at the end of one movie and build up a myth about him waiting for the next movie) but this guy Maul is on another level of lame.

>>215275959
Yeah see right here: >>215276248
Gen Xrs are STILL being insufferable about the prequels.It's amazing. Dude, it was 25 years ago - let it go.

>>215276199
People liked mandalorian until season 2

>>215276074
A story just ned to do one thing: work, and not be broken. It the least important part of a mvoie/book/whatever, as long as it works and is not broken.

>>215276181
>>yeah man kids love movies about
>we factually know they did love them, hence the prequel nostalgia wave
No it's jsut becasue modern shit is awful and you have that, harry potter or marvelshit. And when sequelshit was even worse, you jusdged them in comparison, like retards with no standards.
It's like an 80s/90s kid revaluating Highlander 2 because Highlander 3 was worse (don't even remember it, was it worse?)
We see this shit a lot these days because the average intelligence of the audience is freefalling

>>215276288
Or it was bad and you are not 6 anymore.
Grow up.
Normal functioning people can admit that many pos were made in their early youth, even if they find nostalgia for them.

>>215276292
Sa I've heard, but a wave of people who like a new show until they cahnge idea and don't think about it anymore happens for many new things.
Anyway I ignored anything nuWars, so I won't comment furhter

>>215276337
no lol you're delusional. they didn't wait until the sequels were shit to retroactively reevaluate the prequels, they liked them from the start because they were kids and jar jar, darth maul and podracing were made for kids. we know kids liked those movies from the start because of the mountain of toys that they bought. the whole
>it's too complicated and political for kids!
thing was always a projection by bitter adults. actual kids didn't care. podracer goes brrrr

>>215276551
>podracer goes brrrr
See? the mind of a 6 yo in an adult body

If your shit movie is only good when you have the mind of a 6yo, then your movie is objectively shit

thanks for confirming

>>215277457
a movie aimed at kids being liked by kids is objectively a success. that's what it was for. it's irrelevant if bitter old people like it or not.

>>215271694
>splitting the force between good force and evil force
That's been a thing since the beginning retard

>>215270556
This, Star Wars condenses many kino sci-fi themes and tropes into one far reaching story
>It's a war story
>It has religious themes
>It has knights and sword fights
>It has cool space ships and robots
>It has cool monsters and aliens
>It had sexy women and has sexy men
It throws a very wide net so the nerd kid can watch the spaceships fight while his mom thinks about fucking harrison ford.

>>215276551
This is literally what happened though.

In 2012 EVERYONE was thrilled that Star Wars was out of Lucas's hands. It was Disney who started the bullshit "prequels are actually good!" campaign to try and make their investment worth it.

Then after Gamergate chuds started pretending the prequels were based and trad because they had white male leads (even though they're homicidal morons and the whole story is a REPUBLICANS BAD metaphor).

Y'all got played by the Mouse.

>>215278679
>It was Disney who started the bullshit "prequels are actually good!" campaign to try and make their investment worth it
Kek never happened. Disney immediately cancelled The Clone Wars cartoon and set out to make a 1:1 soft reboot of the originals. The prequels were never even referenced or mentioned until Disney burned all their good will with OT soys. Prequel love was an earnest thing from millenials and zoomers who grew up with the movies. You can see when Disney finally recognized that self-made market in '21 by finishing the clone wars and suddenly announcing stuff like the obi-wan show

Unfortunately for disney they're incompetent and retarded so that failed too, now they have good will from nobody

>George Lucas creates the greatest sci-fi trilogy and setting in history
>Fanboys absorb EU fanfiction for decades, making their own headcanons
>Prequels come out
>Fanboys have autistic meltdowns over how it wasnt as they imagined
>New fans, not poisoned by decades of headcanon love the prequels for the story they tell
I feel bad for Lucas, if he had stuck it out for a few more years he would've been in charge for the resurgence.

>>215278874
>EU fanfiction

You're retarded, the EU was all signed off by Lucas so it was reasonable to assume it was in line with his vision. also EU material hadn't been produced for "decades" it had been eight years, and since the era prior to EP IV wasn't allowed to be written about fans were not invested heavily in an alternate version of the story. They simply hated the prequels because the quality of the story and writing was very low.

You were wrong on literally every point.

>>215278742
Disney was doing prequel nostalgia before TFA even came out (Rebels, season 6 of the Clone wars).

And again, it's funny how this "earnest nostalgia" never showed up before 2014 and is always by people who get very mad about women in video games

>>215278874
I'm waiting for any justification of the prequels' retarded story aside from "the dumbest generation in history liked it when they were dumb kids".

>>215270621
Lucas wrote Star Wars as a critique of DUNE, because it failed to honestly tell the audience that it was based on real history and tried to hide it behind a cherrypicked fantasy setting where it kept namedropping the Messiah without treating it like the redpilling "I am your father" moment that it deserved.
Dune simply makes Paul kill his secret grandpa, which is a jewish psyop trying to portray Juba II (Anakin) as a secret grandson of Herod which himself is a larp alias for Mark Anthony (Dooku), when the fact is that Juba II married Mark Anthony's daughter and cucked the Herods by marrying Glaphyra (Padme) while still in an arranged relationship with Cleopatra Selene II (Ahsoka/Chani)
JudeoDisney had to buy Star Wars because Star Wars debunked the jewish slop in Dune.

>>215270483 (OP)
Also nobody mentions the humor.

Theres something for almost everyone in Star Wars (1977), the sequels… not so much

>>215277625
If George had wanted to make a film for 5-year-olds and only them, it would have been wiser to do something completely new so as not to chafe against the long-established expectations of the viewing public. He had done this before with Willow, after all. But with The Phantom Menace he made a Star Wars film, a prequel to a classic that was two decades old and had a preexisting fanbase well above the target age for Jar Jar.

>>215279636
Jar Jar = Rafiki

>>215275920
Not him, but my son was near the age of Anakin when he watched the first movie and he love it. He watched Ep2 when he was near 15 and Ep3 when he was 18 and is still his favorite star wars movie. Is the type of event that you should be there to understand, that movies grow up with kids like I grow up with the OG trilogy. Its the type of movie that a father and a son can enjoy. The whole thing with the father son relationship between luke/vader, plus obi wan/anakin is not a coincidence.

>>215270483 (OP)
Darth Vader helped a lot.

>>215270753
Live action when

>>215276284
Jango Fett at least had a whole fight with Obi-Wan and Mace Windu. He also killed the glup shitto Jedi coleman. Boba appeared in a few scenes and lost to a blind Han kek.

>>215280685
>Its the type of movie that a father and a son can enjoy.

Don't you think Star Wars presents a mostly negative view of father-son relationships? Darth Vader chops off Luke's hand and tries to turn him to the dark side of the force. Obi-Wan and Anakin become mortal enemies.

And there's a father-son relationship that a lot of people don't notice: the one between Palpatine and Anakin. In the opera scene in Revenge of the Sith, Palpatine claims that he and his Sith master discovered the secret to using the force to create life; when he says that, he looks very meaningfully at Anakin, the boy who was born from a seemingly immaculate conception. The implication is that Palpatine is Anakin's father through the force. And it's not what you could call a happy father-son relationship.

>>215270798
Pretty sure it's actually proboscis Luke.

>>215270483 (OP)

They probably know though. They just refuse to accept that´s it because they have this whole "Hero´s journey bad" thing going on. In fact they are fixed on going against most of SW core identity defining elements, which is why Disney Wars should not be considered SW in the first place, it´s actively trying not to be SW.

While i can see the suits not understanding this i can´t imagine the pros working at Disney being incompetent to the point of not understanding this so the obvious conclussion has to be that it is deliberate. It has to be.

>>215275984
What about the art direction

>>215281086
>"Hero´s journey bad"

Disney went over the hero's journey again with Rey, and the Solo prequel had some elements of the hero's journey too. The problem is not so much what Disney do as it is how they do it. I don't mind having some diversity in Star Wars, but I don't want to be patronised and beaten over the head with it. I don't mind either if they want to break away from the familiar, fairytale story structure, but to do that successfully they have to find talented creators and allow them them some artistic freedom. Rian Johnson probably could have made a decent Star Wars film had his hands not been tied by corporate demands. You can tell he was mandated to put in nostalgic references and other kinds of modern pandering.

>>215281595

They did not. Rey skipped most of the fundamental parts of hero´s growth because, apparently, women are exempt of the trials by fire which constitute the most important part of the hero´s journey, the journey of transformation itself.

It´s not only her though, that´s a problem inherent to how this generation chooses to build it´s female leads. There are a few exceptions but it is patently obvious they mostly skip on defeats, suffering and moments of weakness in general. It´s as if they are incapable of understanding that it´s in overcoming those moments true strength is achieved.

They just handed Rey a lightsaber and said, fuck it, this girl can take on a sith without any training, no, scratch that, she can take on fucking Luke Skywalker when she gets angry. It´s fucking ridiculous. She is basically a non character too, no clear objectives or motivations... she basically moves through the motions and has the skills to solve everything by herself, that´s no character, that´s a walking plot device.

To think Disney used to be THE masters of classic storytelling...

>>215271535
He wanted Spielberg to direct Jedi, but he declined. FWIW Lucas has admitted he really doesn't care about directing actors.

>>215270483 (OP)
>Revolutionary special effects
>John Williams' musical score

The Space Race successes that inspired Baby Boomer SciFi were miscarried. The incessant doomgrind of The Cold War and MAD hangs over everyone. It was the reinjection of optimism everyone wanted and needed.

>>215275724
Yes, his son played that one Jedi kid who got gunned down by clones in front of Bail Organa.

>>215278969
Rey should be a nudist

>>215275781
as convoluted and bizarre as phantom menace is, it really did capture my imagination as a kid

>>215283042
the last jedi sort of ruined everything though- if Rey had faced actual adversity in the 2nd one then it wouldn't be looked back on so badly

>>215275691
this perspective has retroactively redeemed the ewoks and ROTJ entirely in my mind. didn't expect that at all to happen today.

>>215270798
he's a big guy

>>215270798
>It is believed by supporters of the Canon Luke Hypothesis that Obi-Wan's line shortly after Luke first succeeds in blocking the training remote's shots (You've taken your first step into a larger world) is evidence of Obi-Wan's knowledge of there being a larger Luke Skywalker

>>215270798
What's going on? Are these people sperging about stunt actors being canon?

>>215278874
The obviously angry responses to this also being autistic meltdowns makes this even funnier

>>215271766
>I'm sure actual trannies hate the OT because it's too White
I had an annoying shitlibby coworker bitching about an lgbt star wars novelist for bragging about her relatively minor inclusion of lgbt minority characters, when other writers are even more inclusive.

>>215275691
Didn’t he cast one of his fat daughters in ROTS? She’s just standing in the background rolling her eyes. Entitled nepo bitch.

>>215270483 (OP)
it really was lighting in a bottle, this so much this. the real litmus test was the prequels. oh, how naive we've been.

>>215270513
episode II has been my favorite ever since it came out.

>>215286615
I like parts of Episode II – nightlife in Coruscant, Obi-Wan's detective story, the chase through the asteroid field, the Sand People scene – but it goes off the rails when it gets to Geonosis. The arena battle should have been good but it just never feels right.

>>215270556
like pottery

>That's the one thing they never tried to do again.

You also have to take into account exactly who "they" were and how they either were dismissive, detrimental, and outright hostile from the get go. The suits never "got it" from the very start. They just wanted another American Graffiti because it was a hit and they only wanted something that was a surefire way to make money, no different than today. That's why they churn out the same shit that was big back when they still had functioning braincells before they fried them all with grade-A cocaine. They didn't get it then all the way the fuck back in the 1970s and if any of the recent Star Wars related-anything as of late is any indication that they sure as fuck don't get it now either. Its just nothing but retreading what has already been seen and done and padding their original garbage with cherry-picked repackaged lore from the EU. Lazy and shitty.

George was right from the get go and that's all the way back to THX; suits don't know a fucking thing about movies, they don't give a fuck about movies other than numbers and lines on graphs going up. Star Wars was both the goose that laid the golden egg and the final casualty in cinemas battle between business and aesthetics.

Nameless corporate executives are the jannies of Hollywood.

I'm so sick of these announced Star Wars projects that go nowhere and just get cancelled

>>215275854
>>215275691
The “it’s just for kids bro lmao stfu turn your brain off lol” excuse is getting old as fuck nigga.

>>215270973
Yeah I know it's just Star Wars but I'm trying to speak the language of today's retards. If I just call it Star Wars they won't know what I'm trying to talk about. But I agree. Star Wars is itself a good standalone movie

>>215270753
>female lead
kys already. Bitch.

>>215280947
>Don't you think Star Wars presents a mostly negative view of father-son relationships?
Not at all, father/son relationship are complicated in special way. Is the "Rite of passage" over and over again, the master at one point will be challenged by the disciple ir order to prove himself as a true adult. Lucas understand this very well, is part of the appealing of Star Wars that make a films for all family.

>>215285020
it's probably more like in some scenes grumpy Harrison Ford insisted the boots made his feet sore so he's just wearing socks in some scenes

>>215285095
sure you did, troon, sure you did

>>215270682
Agreed

>>215291875
You're thinking Peter Cushing.

>>215277631
No, retard
In the OT the force was all good, and the dark side was the imbalance
In PT there was good froce and bad force balancing each other

>>215278969
>>215278679
You are right about prequelshit, but you are a mongoloid leftist and it's YOUR women in YOUR games that nobody want. And that's why they flop

>>215278874
>Prequels are not shit, it's everyone except me that is biased.
Nobody liked that shit even without reading EU. By the 90s SW was considered nerd shit even among nerds. Nobody had LE BIASED EXPECTATION
You just liked because you had a 6 yo brain and since then you went even backward

>>215270483 (OP)
They knew what it was you moron but they hired some idiot OT lovesick jew and a literal shitbag to make their feminist movies and after that Star Wars went to shit. Before that EVERYONE and there mom loved Star Wars. That post 2015 pre last jedi hype was one of kind. How am I the only fucker that knows this?

>>215292860
Fucking idiot

>>215293096
>get BTFOed
>"fucking idiot"
go watch the shit your are trying and failing to defend, gay

>>215293184
Im not even the anon you were talking to, dumb fuck.

>>215270483 (OP)
>innocent young male main character who has to live up to his potential
>cute smart girl love interest
>cool handsome friend who can beat people up
>they have to save the world from clearly defined evil antagonist(s)
+cool starships and lasers

It's not that fucking complicated.

>>215271570
this, so much this. you, you my good sir, are 110% right on all accounts.
it was literally saved in the edit at the last minute by a woman. without Katherine Kennedy, working her magic on the scrappile that lucas left behind, it would have flopped and been forgotten in a matter of days, if not hours.
it's telling that he was banned by the producers from directing any more, and they brought in other actually competent directors for the second and third films.

You RLM faggots are more insufferable than zoomers sometimes

>>215294019
>the RLD boogeyman again
Nobody liked that shit way before youtube even existed

>>215271766
star wars was actually a trans allegory, George even says so in an interview with the Queer Times of NY.
luke at first wants to be manly and join the empire, but he's doing it because that's what's expected of him. when he's given the lightsaver, a replacement for the penis, he no longer needs his own - "it can cut through anything" represents luke's surgical moment, donning the "robe" of a jedi represents him putting on a dress. the "force" is his inner female motivation, he's compelled to be female, it isn't even his choice.
him confronting his father is his reveal, and vader finally accepting him by the third film by killing the emperor, who represents stuffy tradition, is his father accepting luke's new identity.
george knew at the time that the film wouldn't be accepted if the public knew, so he concealed it in subtleties.
it's a beautiful masterpiece of an early trans journey in film, mirrored only by back to the future - and we all know how that one turned out ;)
marty in drag as his own "daughter"

Andor was a return to form.
Season 2 was kinda bad though, too many things compromised to get that transition into Rogue One.

>>215294134
>Andor
Reddit meme

>>215294134
Actually the empire does not tolerate sexual assault as vader is a me too bro.

>>215294448
Summary justice sounds like something the Empire would do

Captcha: NAND0

>>215271535
lmao I've actually listened to Spielburg's mocking of Lucas ideas for Indiana Jones (it's in 1-2 of the four behind the scenes documentaries) and all it does is make Spielburg look like a tasteless retard.

>>215270798
>http://biggerluke.wikidot.com/bigger-luke
mother of god. that's some proper flat earther style schizo shit.

>>215270483 (OP)
>didn't take itself too seriously or act like it was some massively important cultural monolith
The ironic part about this is that the OT had gravitas whereas the faggots making NuWars either oversimplify it to a movie for kids about space wizards so 'le comedy', (and there wuz funneh in the originals), or make it so super cereal it's up it's own arse. Usually both at the same time somehow, while missing basic shit that gives it actual weight, like people talking in manner that seems like it could be from a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, and not fucking California in the CURRENT YEAR. Not to mention every prop, set, and costume being enough out of whack to not look like it's from Earth but still reconisable and realistic enough that you know what it is and what its supposed to do.

Artless retards are incapable of understanding that level of nuance.

>>215294134
s2 was utter garbage and it boggles my mind other people can't see it. the two rebel groups fighting over the crashed ship was the cringiest reddit-tier shit I have ever seen. I actually couldn't believe what I was watching after the mostly grounded realism of the first season.

Andor is good, but it's a completely different kind of story to the original trilogy. I don't think people who like one necessarily will enjoy the other.

The original trilogy is a classic hero's journey fantasy with space elements. Andor is a political spy drama with satire elements. They just happen to be set in the same universe.

Star Wars is George Lucas.

>>215270621
>>215270798
George LUCas
LUKE Skywalker
Uuh, guys?

ol

>>215296158
Star Wars is the OT, without Lucas' attempt at making it 'special'

>>215270483 (OP)
but it did take itself seriously, that's one of the main reasons of its success. look at other scifi movies of that era, it was campy and had dogshit designs and effects because nobody wanted to spend money and effort on slop for nerds that wouldn't even break even

>>215270483 (OP)
>WOW THOSE PULP ADVENTURE STORIES ARE FUN
That is all.

>>215281595
>Disney went over the hero's journey again with Rey
She literally didn't have one though

>>215298348
Did she have ANY KIND of journey?

>>215273254
Star Wars 77 was a social phenomenon in large part because the mid '70s felt kinda like the 2020s. Extreme pessimism, fractured society, etc. and then here was this fun lowbrow movie everybody liked.

>>215278679

you would be wrong, prequelposting on here was before the buyout, by at least 2 years, I started in 2010, so I know you're full of shit, faggot.