How would you design combat where the player has to control 4 party members and:
>Make it feel fair and less babysitting
>Allow player full control over the unit without added stress of micromanagement every second
>Allow for proactive decision making while in combat
You can't that's why 4 niggas in a line makes the most sense. The battles are snappy unlike tactics combat where a single battle needs 100 turns to finish.

>>712487371 (OP)
Visible dice rolls

>>712487371 (OP)
Just add one more party member to FF7R

>>712487371 (OP)
its already been done.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1088850/Marvels_Guardians_of_the_Galaxy/

>>712487371 (OP)
Tales of series has been doing this for decades.

>>712487371 (OP)
There's nothing wrong with Turn Based.
There's nothing wrong with RTwP.
There is something wrong with the dog shit 4 niggasinarow genre known as JRPGs.

CRPGs have already solved the genre but JRPGs are still living in the past and most of them need to crutch on Action-shit to be interesting.

>>712487371 (OP)
unironically FF12's combat system, just with higher difficulty like some of the mods

>>712487371 (OP)
>how would you have the player control 4 party members without having him deal with the actual challenge and depth of controlling 4 party members
This just begs the question of why you need a game that "lets you control 4 party members" in the first place.

>>712487371 (OP)
FF12 perfected niggas in a row gameplay decades ago

>>712487945
4 is the perfect number for a party, just enough to create synergies without overwhelming the player.

>>712488048
>>712487910
show me a clip or boss fight where the combat is at it's peak

>>712487910
Got you covered

>>712487371 (OP)
Write good ai for your party members, even in 2001 with NWN1 your squad could cast spells or not, or use very specific things you want them to do.
Make them efficient

i would simply control one party member and make them fun to play

>>712487371 (OP)
TWEWY: NEO accomplished this.

>>712487371 (OP)
Only good turn based is press turn.

>>712488151
>overwhelming the player
Sounds like a skill issue. Play some Dawn of War 2 and git gud.

>>712488259
what about dodging aoes? should the AI be able to move out of them? should they be able to actively weave through skill shots?

>>712489081
>>712489081
Press Turn is overrated as it weighs the rock/paper/scissors element of hitting your opponent's weakness far too heavily, which reduces player options

>>712488254
Why are the absolute most hardcore number cruncher RPGs all made by people who want to fuck little girls

>>712487371 (OP)
yeah, i cant answer those questions. but that doesnt automatically mean turn based is now fun

RTS has solved party-based combat but again I don't see what's wrong with turn-based combat, in fact if your genre is RPG it should probably avoid action

>>712489756
NTA but yea they should have the skill of a mediocre player, dodging some attacks/aoes but not all. As a dev you have a lot of control over which characters get targeted with what abilities, you can also add Pikmin-like mechanics that let you passively move the characters with follow/wait/attak commands

>>712487371 (OP)
Deltarune
Expedition 33
>B-B-BUT THERE'S ONLY THREE
You're mom's a nigger

>>712490239
It's more about party composition and mitigating your own weaknesses while nullifying the enemy's strength.
Besides, if you know an enemy's weakness, you should be exploiting it already.

>>712487371 (OP)
>The battles are snappy unlike tactics combat where a single battle needs 100 turns to finish
this is negated by there being 5 of them every 8 steps on the overworld thobeit

>>712487747
???
You control one character in tales. You do not switch into your healer or buffer to manage what they do.
Tales is an excellent game if playing multiplayer but its an extremely poor example for the argument OP posted. Sure you can pause the battle to switch characters which can make some battles more involved but tales games aren’t really designed around that. Furthermore, the latest tales of games make healing irrelevant, further taking away from the micromanagement aspect that turn based rpgs.

>>712487549
>>712487910
These games are extremely close to turn based. Not sure why people think they are some outlier or proof of concept for action oriented combat. FF7 remake in particular lets you swap party members and pause the battle at any time, which is why healing, resource management and buffs are important in that game unlike the typical generic action rpg.

>>712490642
RTS is not an improvement to turn based systems its a different genre altogether, if you played an actually hard srpg you’d realize that.

>>712491223
These are more QTE-styled turn based games with a few minor rpg mechanics. Not saying theres anything wrong with that but it is apparent that these are games were the only reward for your interaction with the battle is just more damage and it scales of your skill with the qte rather than actual strategy.
Again there is NOTHING wrong with these games paper mario is one of my favorite games, however it is a poor comparison to traditional turn based rpgs

>>712491942
fucking this

>>712487371 (OP)
Make a robust AI system where is powered with mechanics like Gambits and optional interchangeable playable character.

There, Turn-based has no place in modern world outside TRPGs

>>712492682
> Not sure why people think they are some outlier or proof of concept for action oriented combat.
not a single word in my post even broached this idea
maybe you need to re-read OP

>>712492682
>These games are extremely close to turn based
They aren't turn based, no amount of mental gymnastics are gonna let you worm your way out of this one. FF7R is the answer to OP's question.

>>712487371 (OP)
7 remake did it well, theres no excuse anymore

>>712487371 (OP)

>>712495670

>>712496090

>>712492682
>RTS is not an improvement to turn based systems its a different genre altogether
Exactly. I'm not trying to fix turn-based combat here, since the OP asked how you design combat where more than one unit is controlled. I just suggested making it like an RTS, but more micro heavy, similar to what Warcraft 3 did

>action commands, block button, doge button, parry slop.

Its that easy annon, anything less is menu larping

>>712487371 (OP)
Dragon Age Origin let you pause and babysit entire party with skill usage if you want to and party position matter with spell casting because each spell has different AoE (cone, circle, etc)
Too bad the franchise is butchered and killed in the alleyway

>>712487371 (OP)
I think you should just accept that some people won't enjoy turn-based no matter what

>>712488254
Extremely autistic game very good find

>>712496090
Rufus is a absolute pain in the ass to fight against in Rebirth. It's like it was a direct response to this webm.

>>712488151
Depends on the number of playable characters. 4 was complete dogshit for something like Suikoden.

>>712487371 (OP)
This game was perfect. and you could apply that perfection to a new game.

>>712487945
having a party is great because it lets the game designers create cool specialized roles without forcing the player to dedicate their character to a specialized role.

>>712487371 (OP)
its the challenge not the gameplay

>>712503972
Artificial challenge.

>>712490239
Dropped Octopath because of this.
>Pick the right element
Win
>Pick the wrong element
Lose
is so fucking boring.

>>712487371 (OP)
XII solved this almost 20 years ago btw

>>712487371 (OP)
its lack of challenges and interactions
hearthstone is also a turn based game btw

>>712487371 (OP)
I honestly thought FFXIII's combat system did turn based the best.
>incredibly fast
>switches
>spamming everything and anything
>tactical when necessary
Too bad it took so long to fully utilize it. Nonetheless, I would love to see a revisit of the battle system again.

just copy dragon quarter

>>712505364
Octopath is just boring and bad in general.

>>712487371 (OP)
I don't hate turn based but I do wish more of them would do a points based ATB system like in Blue Reflection.
Basically you have a bar up to 5000 points instead of a timer and your attacks will cost points to spend. So you can attack early with a 1000pt attack or wait for it to charge. If you had 2k points you could do one stronger attack that costs 2k or two 1k attacks, etc, etc. That shit was so much fun once you got a good chain with your party going and I've been looking for more games that do it ever since.

>>712508132
lol. lmao. yes, copy the game that killed an entire renowned JRPG franchise. totally awesome idea.

>>712487371 (OP)
an action game where ai controls your party members to do safe generic attacks and defenses to build up ts, and you switch to them to use up the ts to do some unique move or skill. then switch back to your favorite character to build its ts while ai takes care of the rest, or maybe switch to a character thats on its last legs to heal itself.
ts in turn based is used similarly, just do bitch basic press A to attack to build up ts to then use it on skills.
you can spice it up by having your character that you are controlling earn a special move point when you kill a mob enemy which you can use on the big enemy. this incentivises you to use all the characters so that you can carry out special moves from all party members on the big boss.

>>712508447
Anon, this has been done so many times that you mentioning a modern slop game like Blue Reflection makes me question whether you're actually a fan of this genre at all, or merely a poser.

>>712487371 (OP)
go look up sorcerian, retard

>>712508571
there's so many games that you can play a lot of them and not run across an overused mechanic. NTA also. I myself mostly play rpgm games made by one guy.
>>712508447
>blue reflection
why is the series over 100$ even with 75% off? motherfucking koei tecmo. and then they ask like a retard why they have no revenue.

>>712508450
dragon quarter is the only good jrpg lol

>>712508969
>translation: "dragon quarter is the only jrpg i ever played"
and it barely counts as a jrpg when it's really an srpg simplified down to 3 niggas, except progression through the game is kind of jrpg-like but without any of the things that make jrpgs fun like uh being able to fucking heal your team or save your game or level up high enough to beat even basic fights.
if you like to suffer and enjoy boring shit then sure, dragon quarter is GREAT in the same way fear & hungary is SO MUCH FUN to trial and error slop your way through until you've memorized the whole game.

>>712487371 (OP)
It's simple really.
>Characters are assigned a default AI based on their role (Healers will try to stay away from enemies and heal/buff allies, tanks will go to the frontline and aggro the enemies, mages will stay in the back and cast damage spells, etc)..
>The player can further customize aspects of the AI on the menu (for example, what to do in case an enemy engages in melee with them, if they should focus on ranged or melee actions, etc.)
>The player can also PAUSE the game at any time, if necessary, and issue commands while the game is paused
>The player can switch control to any other party member at any time.

So basically like it is in Baldur's Gate 2, or in the enhanced editions. I find it to be the best method even to this day.

Xenoblade 3 has 6 party members you can swap between to control in real time.

>>712509667
Also, the player can turn the AI on and off entirely, or select a different AI preset for the character, if they want (i.e., assign a fighter AI to a mage, for example)

>>712509115
what make jrpg fun retard nothing but spam menu like a fucking blue collar worker

bros... I can't be fucked to continue FF1.