Why is Eliwood so bad?

Bad base stats.
Only has access to swords until chapter 26 at the earliest, which is a very big issue due to
>swords in general are weak
>most enemies in FE7 use lances so he's constantly in triangle disadvantage
>no access to 1-2 range
He becomes a lot better after promotion with lances and a horse though.

>>712651331 (OP)
Sword-locked until late promotion, bad bases.
Special anti-cav weapon handicapped by localization.
Still better than Lyn at least.

>>712651331 (OP)
He's good, actually

Idk why people hate ike for lashing ot on sanaki.
Why would you like to see elincia get mistreated and ike standing there like a beta cuck?

>>712652281
>Bad base stats
He's on the higher end of your early units and gets the 7 might Rapier making up for lower str
>Only has access to swords until chapter 26 at the earliest
That's fine, he's mostly fighting axes and enemies he's effective against until then, not to mention the reaver spam that FE7 likes
>swords in general are weak
He can use the Rapier and the Killing edge, as well as the Silver sword for damage
>most enemies in FE7 use lances so he's constantly in triangle disadvantage
Not really in the early game, most enemies have axes, nomads are prime targets for him and reavers are surprisingly common
>no access to 1-2 range
That is a temporary problem which harms him less than he seems, since he has his niche even without it until ch 26 when he gets his horse and lance rank.

>>712653502
I don't think people hate him for mouthing off to Snacks. He gets a little hate for being a preachy Gary Stu and obvious mouthpiece of the writer, in that he gets off scot free after doing it. It comes across as an "and then everyone clapped" moment.

dragon puss drains your growths

eliwood literally gets mogged in every single stat by a guy (heh) who joins just 1 chapter later

>>712653969
Guy doesn't get the Rapier though

>>712654229
ok

>>712653502
That scene is fine, he gets to show of his good side while also being called out for being an idiot about it.
The moment when he storms into Sanaki's garden past her guard/surrogate mother to aggressively question her about the Serenes Massacre is the actual stupid one.
Ike gets told by Reyson(some random Laguz he knows nothing about at that point) about the massacre, doesn't do any actual research of his own around it, and storms in to badger Elincia's most vital supporter about information with no tact whatsoever.

>>712653665
>He's on the higher end of your early units
hes literally the 2nd worst unit before you get lyn and wil
sword unit so no 1-2 range and weak personal weapon
terrible speed unlike the other sword locked units
terrible defense unlike hector and oswin
terrible hp unlike axe bros
>That's fine, he's mostly fighting axes and enemies he's effective against until then
no thats not fine, if he can only fight shit enemies then he is shit
>He can use the Rapier and the Killing edge, as well as the Silver sword for damage
you'd rather use your good swords on better sword units like guy and raven, and rapier has the same might as an iron lance

>That is a temporary problem which harms him less than he seems, since he has his niche even without it
temporary as in 3/4ths of the game very cool, he has no niche before his stupid horse and his niche is having shit con and having less move than a paladin
>Not really in the early game, most enemies have axes, nomads are prime targets for him and reavers are surprisingly common
nomads are not because he does nothing on enemy phase against them and he cant one shot them with his shitty Rapier
c12: more lance than axe enemies
c13: only 1+3 axe enemies
c13x: a lot of axe enemies
c14: more lance than axe
c15: more lance than axes
c16: more lance than axes
he should be perma benched from now on
c17: more bows AND lances than axes
c17x: a lot of axes
c18: literally no axes
c19: more lances than axes
c19x: lance and magic spam
c20: more lance AND magic than axes
anyways fuck you and fuck eliwood

>>712653665
>He's on the higher end of your early units
Out of the characters in the first two chapters, he's outright weaker in stats than Lowen, Dorcas, Marcus, Oswin, Hector and Guy.
He's stronger than Rebecca.
Bartre and Matthew are weird in that Bartre is stronger statwise overall, but his speed is so bad he's worse than Eliwood, while Matthew is the opposite, weaker in stats but flat better in combat against Axe units because he doubles.
>and gets the 7 might Rapier making up for lower str
The Rapier is actually pretty bad.

>>712656073
Well, the first two chapters he's in on Hector Mode, anyway.

I hope Eliwood dies in a fire.

>>712656073
>The Rapier is actually pretty bad.
Maybe if you're just following lame youtubers trying to be contradictory

>>712656460
rapier is bad no matter how much elicock you suck on the daily

>>712656460
Normal Mode Guy(so weakest possible Guy) with a Steel Sword: 6+8=14 atk, 6 AS
Matthew with Steel Sword: 4+8=12 atk, 8 AS
Eliwood with Rapier: 5+7=12 atk, 7 AS
Steel Sword is a shit weapon for low con units, and Matthew and Guy are both better with it than Eliwood is with his Rapier.
Lowen with Steel Sword: 7+8=15 atk, 7 AS
Iron Lance Lowen is 7+7=14 atk, 7 AS

>>712657271
Steel Sword Eliwood, for that matter:
5+8=13 atk, 4 AS

Partially related, but who would be considered the weakest Lord in the franchise (gameplaywise and/or lorewise)? Eliwood unironically might be the weakest lorewise.

>>712657427
Probably leif or eirika lore wise, since the Elibe weapons are apparently capable of reality warping bullshit.

>>712655996
I still can't get over the fact that Eliwood's promo class is literally a cavalier(swords, D lances, and 7 move), Lyn's is a nomad trooper with no canto and one less move, and Hector's is a general that gets swords instead of lances. Literally all downgrades to normal classes.

>>712657427
Eliwood competes evenly with Hector lorewise, who's explicitly stronger than Lyn. In other words, it can't be him.
My candidate would be Eirika, personally. Roy is ahead of her because he's said to be competent despite constantly underestimating himself, while Eirika is treated as forcing herself to fight while Ephraim is the actual strong one of the two twins.

>>712651331 (OP)
Middling start and middle-of-road growths in an era that heavily favors specialization and where "high across the board" isn't really the standard Lord format unless you're abusing scrolls in FE5, which means you're basically flipping a coin on how viable he'll be longterm.
And that's before you get into his late promotion.

I really don't think it's a coincidence after the trifecta of Leif, Roy and Eliwood that you start seeing the franchise step on the scale for MC's growth rates. Ephraim is basically just Eliwood but buffed across the board from the getgo, better starting stats, higher growths, earlier promotion. This trend basically peaks with Chrom and his high growths in HP, strength, skill, speed and luck on top of a buffed Aether he gets shortly after promotion and that he can promote basically as soon as he gets a Master Seal, but the ones that follow are only just barely scaled back or are the batshit insane 3H numbers.

>>712655404
The fact that Sanaki's personal guards are completely incompetent is just as glaring desu. An apostle was assassinated within the last 20 years, and yet security is still so lax that this random guy is able to waltz right in to a supposedly secure area and yell at her without so much as being detained. He should have been shot dead or at least tackled and restrained before he could get anywhere close to her.
Sigrun is a lovely waifu, but she's beyond useless as head of a VIP security detail.

>>712651331 (OP)
I wish that Eliwood was in Smash in place of Roy. His armor and weapon look badass.

>>712657427
Gameplay wise, its probably Lyn or Eliwood, depending on whether or not you count Lyn mode. Lore wise, maybe Leif since he has no crazy magic weapon and cannonically gets beat by mid tier scrubs in FE 4/5, but I guess it also depends on if we're talking armies, or personal combat ability.

>>712651331 (OP)
Roy 2.0 is a boring protag. Lyn is the better face of FE7

>>712657427
either Roy or FE11 Marth is the weakest lord gameplay wise

>>712658541
Gameplay wise, it's Roy no questions asked. Eliwood is straight up good especially post promo, and Lyn starts with the Mani Katti saving her from being completely horrible and can be made into something decent once she gets going, but Roy suffers from the worst Rapier (5 might), can't promote until literally endgame and competes with a far stronger cast than FE7's cast.

>>712658632
But Lyn is trash too so why bother with a face for FE7 when we can have just Roy for both

>>712658632
I thought Eliwood would be a Roy 0.0 since Roy was a protagonist before Eliwood, also Lyn sexo

>>712659395
whyh does lyn look like a bitter spinster...

>>712653868
>Garyy stue
Lmao he struggled more then almost every other lord.

>>712658912
I would agree that Hector mode Eliwood is better than Roy. But I personally get more use out of Roy pre promotion than Eliwood in hard mode. Being sword locked isn't as detrimental in FE6, and Roy has the niche of being fairly accurate in a game where that isn't a given.

And in Eliwood mode, Eliwood has 5 chapters where he is promoted, and 1 where he gets his prf weapon, while Roy gets 4 chapters where he has his prf weapon the entire time. And I personally think Roy stands out more in those four than Eliwood does in his 5. But yeah, Hector Mode Eliwood is probably better than Roy.

>>712659650
>he struggled more then almost every other lord
Such as?

>>712658297
Ike is trusted tho.
Her already proved himself and even safed her. in ch13.

>>712651331 (OP)
gba emblem is already blatantly against sword users but then eliwood isn't nearly cool/edgy enough in his behavior and animations while being an automatic game over if he gets crit so people don't want to risk feeding him kills so he can overcome mediocre starting stats

even if you're going to use a sword lord with mediocre stats, the player has already built way more of an affinity for lyn from using her for a bunch of levels and again she's cooler and edgier, being lame is unironically worse in terms of how used you are then being actually objectively bad which is why it took people like 10 years to actually use marcus because he's a boring old man instead of a badass one

>>712659698
2 of his party members left he gets beaten up by the daein solders afterwards the BK humiliated him twice. Nasir betrays him and he couldtn capture Nasir because of it.
In fact the game shills him out for being a greenpick at the beginning of the game.
If ike is a gary stue.
Then every other lord in the franchise is the same.

That dude seethes because ike isnt a racist and doesnt get murdered by sanaki for some reason.

>>712658843
actually I forgot Roy promotes so Marth is for sure the worst

>>712660058
Marth can one shot people with a forged rapier.
Roy cant.
And really roys promo sucks cause he is still hilariously underlevelled.

>>712659970
I dunno if I'd call Ike a Gary Stu myself but none of those things are exactly character flaws. Like, if you compare him to just the immediate last game, Ephraim used to get accused of being a Gary Stu all the time when a huge amount of the things that go wrong in Sacred Stones are explicitly Ephraim's fault and his personal character flaw is deeply consequential.
Ike's really getting fucked by outside circumstances.

>>712660289
The game tries to be real with him but also doesnt kill him off because obviouslythe game would have been over.

>>712656460
Ok. so This thread is about Zuzu, isn't it.

>>712660058
He might as well not promote, considering how late his promo is. At least Marth gets extra levels to work with instead of being locked out of his stats.

I wanna suck of mangs opiniaed cock so badly boys...he always has the based of takes.

>>712657271
what about the effective damage and accuracy of the rapier

>>712660230
you seriously overestimate how strong a forged rapier actually is
it's gonna be starting off at 4 mt against 90% of the things you'd use it against, and H5 cavs and knights are quite tanky so you might not even oneshot even if you forge it
at that point you're just wasting money you could use to forge better weapons like ridersbane that actually good units can use
rapier is not a cheap forge

>>712660058
Marth can't promote but he can go to lvl 30

>>712660710
>Cheap forge
Niggga its barely more expensive.
And even then youre still gonna do 1 forge per chapter.
The fact that he can at least do that makes him better then roy.

Didn't people typically always just pair Eliwood up with Hector since they had an absurdly fast A support? Similar to the strat with Roy being pairing him up with Lance and Alan to give him a massive damage and durability buff. That usually was factored into both of their placements tier wise since both could reliably get the full support buffs in no time at all to fix them. I never see this mentioned anymore.

>>712651331 (OP)
All 3 lords in his game are shit

>>712660043
He constantly gives big gay speeches about fighting for his nakama, being more open minded and more moral than everyone else, and is generally weirdly progressive and naive for his setting. It's very shounen. I didn't write him that way, it's just how it is. Micaiah even makes fun of it in Radiant Dawn.

>>712660814
No matter what you do.
He will fall regardless because of his shitty placed promotion

>>712660875
didn't he get it all from his dad

>>712660814
It's a very good support indeed, since it's a point of def+res per support, and Eliwood's anima gives out a point of attack at B rank. The Merlinus chapter makes it easy for them to get at least to C rank easily too, since it's a defend chapter and they make a good team against the axe enemies and nomads.

>>712660875
>Big gay speeches
Ever lord nigga in this franchise has gay speeches.
Youre just mad cause "muh racism" because got forbid anything is slightly resembling wokeness.

Imagine you're a youngster getting into Fire Emblem today. Like you pick up Engage because you fucking love tooth paste and you see it on the shelf and you go home and you play it and you enjoy it and you go online.
And like, naturally, you start on YouTube. And you find out quickly that everyone is either a tranny or some narcissistic maybe-rapist.
So you go to Reddit, but it's just a circle jerk of memes by people who don't seem to actually play the games at all.
So you check out Twitter right, and everyone there is simultaneously posting horny art of characters, while admonishing you for how wrong it is to get turned on by the characters. Race changing them black, then complaining about light skin tones, and finally talking about how wrong student-teacher romances are while gushing over abusive relationships.
So then you try old school internet boards. You get into Serenes or FEU, but one is a bunch of autists arguing over the right way to play the game, and the other seems to be filled with third worlds that don't understand the series they're trying to design in while setting up all these arbitrary limits.
So you go to 4chan, hit up /vg/ and search for Fire Emblem, and the entire thread is schizos.
So you settle on /v/ threads where nothing is even labelled but it's a total crapshoot how many of those schizos have made their way there in any given thread or whether or not anyone has ever played the games.
Eventually you settle onto some obscure private Fire Emblem discord server.
And the groomers from YouTube return...

>>712660970
Maybe, but in general I'm not a big fan of protags that are an obvious stand-in for modern day morals. Not because I disagree with the morals, but it comes across as inauthentic and preachy. It reminds me of the white savior character with 2020 ideas about race in American slave flicks set in the 1800s. It's phony.
>>712661113
You're projecting. I'm pretty left leaning by this site's standards. Doesn't mean I want to be preached to by a writer's pet.

>>712660924
Tbh it depends on the route since Hector gets worse on his own route. And I don't think any of the lords are particularly ever useless once they are at near level 20 since they all have strong effective weapons.

FE7 is really easy. I don't think Fire Emblem should even bother with Tier Lists. It makes sense with Advance Wars - but these games are just not difficult or competitive enough to require tiering.

>>712660814
>making eliwood gay to try and fix his bad stats instead of just benching him
no thanks bro, maybe if the game didn't lock you to a single A rank

>FE7 is really easy
how to spot someone who steals opinions from youtubers:

>>712661504
That was my argument against it too at the time. I'm fucking Ninian regardless of tier placement every time.

>>712661513
I beat this game when I was 12 using all the units I thought were cool instead of the ones that ended up being high tier so yes it's easy
>FE7 is hard if you max tactician stars LTC it
how to spot someone who steals opinions from youtubers

>>712661513
I like seeing people regularly get BTFO by FE7, be it ecelebs or the common metafag. Turns out the game isn't so easy when you're playing it instead of looking at wiki pages and copying strategies designed around getting the perfect outcome each time.

>>712661656
I'm just saying, FE7 does not deserve the shit it gets that FE6 doesn't when they are both extremely close difficulty wise
>b-but i beat eliwood normal when i was 6 so it doesn't count
don't care

>>712661513
Bitch I literally argued with these fucks about this shit over 10 years ago cause I played Dota and the only one who eventually agreed with me was Mangs because he moved on to Advance Wars and actually sometimes takes games off the best players in the game (in live only - which frankly I respect more).

>>712661301
Tackling this seriously, I understand annoyance at people shoving modern values into stories but Path of Radiance is a 2005 narrative and the main themes of Tellius were obviously about class, race and discrimination to begin with. At the time PoR came out, it was much less popular to pursue this kind of story than it was now and there wasn't really any other way that Ike was ever going to be written there.

>>712661868
I just think they could have handled the topic with more nuance. I've never failed to be impressed when an anime game hero DOESN'T do or say the most boilerplate shounen thing imaginable. When they act like a real person with a bit of understandable self-interest, maybe normal human callousness to them.
Imagine if Ike was trying to be open to Laguz for pragmatic reasons, but still harbored reasonable and expected prejudices for his setting. Instead of being Guts Jesus. But I mean, it's a kiddie Nintendo game, so...

Weird, Eliwood in my playthrough became an absolute beast. Consistently the best level ups of all my units.

>>712662475
He has really good stat growths actually so I've had incredible Eliwoods too.

>>712661513
It's not hard but it has a sweet spot where you can't just be braindead or you'll get rekt. While 6 can be really hard for newcomers and 8 is insultingly easy, 7 aged very well on that regard: Play Lyn mode and learn, play Eliwood and beat the game regardless of how good you did, then play HHM to actually think ahead and get a challenge. Then masturbate to Rebecca and shitpost on /v/ ad infinitum.

fe6 is way harder than fe7

>>712662475
His bases are actually good, so you just need to start giving him exp early instead of just throwing him to the sidelines. Most importantly, don't conserve his Rapier much, it's the main weapon he wants to use

>>712663158
>His bases are actually good
wrong

>>712663153
It's been contrarian central lately, more than usual
Awakening is as complex as Conquest/Thracia
Eliwood is a good unit
FE7 is actually a very hard game, you just heard otherwise from a youtuber
that kind of thing

>>712657427
Roy is hard carried by the Binding Blade, otherwise he's a middling fucking unit at best. While everyone else is promoting, Roy is being escorted to the throne because he's capped at level 20 until he gets the Binding Blade, which can break, and it was only so broken so it could kill Idunn, except they just, removed the item that made her broken and didn't change the Binding Blade? Even they knew Roy sucked ass.

>>712663383
>As fast as Kent
>Rapier makes up for lower str
>Good luck
>Alright base defense
He's good

>>712663391
Relays just revitalized discussion beyond spreadsheetfaggotry and metafags are getting exposed left and right as secondaries

>>712662416
I understand the want for more nuance but I don't think that would've served PoR specifically. One of the layers to the themes of Tellius is how underprivileged groups push down each other and that it isn't just the people at the top at fault, much of Ashnard's appeal was just that he offered people a chance to climb the social ladder. Ike and Elincia being these idealistic leaders characterized by their naivety to class difference does a job in setting them aside from the larger number of characters who, even if they don't like prejudices, benefit from the circumstances in different ways. The main protagonist has to be a character that can believably gain everyone's trust to lead into RD's end game.

I think Ike has to be exceptional to the reasonable and expected prejudices of his setting to work. If I had to change anything, I wouldn't want more nuance to his character, but more struggle to the writing itself. Keep him as open and idealistic but punish him more for his beliefs. PoR is probably about right but I think RD needed more work in supporting Micaiah and the Dawn Brigade's side of the struggle to show that Ike's role in taking down Daein had consequences.

>>712664023
>muh spreadsheet
I swear, this is the first and final refuge of the dimwit. It used to be a mantra that "personal means nothing." Now there's this pseudo-religious counter-belief that in being as contrarian and antagonistic as possible to data and reason, you're somehow better for being "unique." But you ultimately have to demonstrate your argument with numbers in order to be convincing, just as much as the spreadsheet fags. No one cares that you babied Lyn in your run and it worked out.

>>712664513
>You don't respect pseud metafags? Clearly you commit the crime of favouritism by babying [insert non metafag approved unit here]!
Every time.

>>712665042
Snubbing your nose at good agreed upon consensus is retarded, is all. I do a lot of weird off-kilter shit and shit on guide-reading redditors as much as the next guy but I'm still gonna call you an idiot if you try to tell me FE7 Marcus is bad because he can't double one pirate in the Priscilla map. That's just elevating contrarianism to the level of personal identity.

>>712664513
>personal experience means nothing
>PEMN
God, I remember people saying this exact shit on the FE6 board on gamefaqs almost 20 years ago. Some things never change, do they?
I think people just like to argue desu

>>712660680
>Earliest Cav in HHM: Cavalier lv 2 (Iron Lance) = 6-7 AS, 24-25 HP, 7 def
Effective Damage Rapier Eliwood: (7-1)+6(bonus damage)+5=17, 7 AS.
Eliwood deals 10 damage to the first cav, getting a three hit kill.
Killing Edge Guy (Lets use Normal Mode stats despite HM enemy):
(9-1)+6=14, 9 AS.
Normal Mode Guy would do 7 damage a hit and 4HKOs, but has more than 30% crit, and a single crit lets him 2HKO.
Note that this is a fantasy scenario. In real HHM, Guy averages 8 str and 13 speed at base, meaning:
(9-1)+8=16, 11 AS.
That means 9 damage a hit, one less than Eliwood, allowing him to 3HKO, but he also doubles, and any crit oneshots.
HM Guy with Iron does 5 damage a hit, doing as much damage as Rapier Eliwood thanks to doubling.
>>712657427
>Eliwood unironically might be the weakest lorewise.
He's canonically superior to Hector in single combat(even if they are fairly close), and Lyn is the runt of the trio.

>>712665302
>if you try to tell me FE7 Marcus is bad because he can't double one pirate in the Priscilla map
I mean, that's a negative you can associate to him, but he's still the best unit in FE7 due to him having excellent bases in every other stats and not even horrible growths, making him the best Paladin in the game.
In fact, Marcus makes for a good example of how metafags should play FE more instead of parroting one another ad infinitum, since they like to pretend that he's Seth tier when he's already needing backup (usually from Lowen) even early on despite being top tier.

For me, it's picrel.

>>712665620
Is Eirika trying to not sneeze here or something?

>>712666596
She's supposed to be breathing hard because they're in Caer Pelyn which is up in high mountains.

Fe9 maniac mode is harder then every gba game.
Even fe6.

>>712667320
Obviously since gba games only have 3 difficulties

>>712667708
Ahem good sir.
Thats only Fe8.

>>712667320
It's harder but it's not the fair and balanced kind of hard. It's very telling when everyone exploits the forging bug for 255% crit just to make the mode playable.

the rapier eliwood brain damage this guy has is almost as bad as the steel blade vanessa fag

>>712657968
the sad part is Eliwood's promo is still the best of the three.
the real bitter pill to swallow is FE7 has the weakest lords in the series.

>>712668502
>Needs forgeglitch to make it playable
Gbafags got filttered cause hand axe end turning isnt beating everything.

trainee go brrr

>>712668948
it's not your blog

>>712668948
it's your blog

>>712667320
Its the hardest to complete in the series since the average enemy turn take like 4 hours.

>>712669219
Not a hard task if your brain isnt rotten by shittok.

>>712661513
The difference is at least those youtubers autistically play it back-to-back for 20 years so they know the ins and outs of the game

Eliwood does not need to be a better unit than hard mode bonuses guy. He needs to be a better unit in ch. 26+ than rath or an unpromoted level 10 kent, because that is the exhaustive list of horses that can carry force-promoted hector's fat ass.

>>712669661
just use florina retard

>>712669837
You need a second unit to takedrop who can keep up with florina. Also you regularly want to use florina for objectives that involve combat across mountains or over water and need a different unit to be the mobility scooter. Florina/heath works sometimes but not all the time.

>>712661152
and this is why i stick in the egghead circles.
>>712661867
In general FE7 is only as hard as you make it, but it's the only game in the series i've cleared an ironman on without any losses, turn wheels, or revive fountains.
>>712664030
In general RD needed more time in the oven and focus on Micaiah's group, I dare say give them an entire game instead of what we ended up getting.
>>712669635
debatable, depending on the youtuber.
I can almost tell you that tranny doyle doesn't play FE more than he talks about it.

>>712670090
then just use warp if you need movement so badly you whiny bitch
you have it for the entirety of the time hector is promoted

>>712669375
It's a hard task for everyone who normally played it after the gba titles

>>712670393
Gba games are pretty easy which is why

>>712670454
Almost fell for it

>the resident schizo in these threads will tell you Conquest is an easily broken juggernaut game over and over and over again even by posting save edits to “prove it”
>will then argue that FE7 isn’t an easy game that isn’t easily broken while samefagging to give the illusion of a consensus

ANDARON SAGA!!!!!!!!!

>>712670932
naaaah what is this goofy ahh game blud :skull: :skull:

>>712671232
Anyway engayge is cringe am i right guys?

>>712670932
>work with team of romhackers to make a game that appeals to Kaga fans as best as you can
>put in a ton of effort into your worldbuilding, history, and character motivations
>put in Sans Undertale so 4chan will dismiss your hard work as meme trash forever
Why did Mangs do it?

>>712671429
because he's based and redpilled and so is Ahmed the Friendly Skeleton! Cheers!

>>712671429
At least the prequel is better.
but Ahmed and about half of the jokes/references in it are a mistake that as much as i like the rom, keep taking me out of it and reminds me "yeah this isn't much better than a mainline entry sometimes"

>>712671805
don't worry bro definitive edition will save the game and Fire Emblem as a whole trust the plan

>>712671967
I'll rather play that than the Klok version of it desu.

>>712672209
>Klok version
I was interested when that was first announced but since he showed off those hideous fucking new portraits I've written it off entirely. I don't even know why he's changing the portraits, all of the portraits in both games are really fucking good. His new ones are abominable.

>>712670827
Also that grinding in awakening is good

hector hard is more bullshit than 6 hard
end of story

>>712672543
really insistent on AI art so that might be why, but i can't imagine why you'd bother with AI art when you don't have too.
Already it's showing the signs of being far too ambitious for it's own good, which was an issue during AS's development which resulted in a good amount of cut content and unfocused sections of the game just so it wouldn't be in development hell.
Also Klok just doesn't have charisma, I remember he sent a super chat to Mangs bragging about how Trump was going to Prison, boy that sure aged poorly lmao.

Mangs

my azelle keeps leveling defence and now frontlines with the armor ring

>>712668502
>it's not the fair and balanced kind of hard
What's unfair or imbalanced about it? I'd say it's way more fair than bullshit difficulty-makers like Inevitable End and Staff Savant.

Eilgood

Aren't all 3 Lords forced deployed in the FE7 endgame?

>>712674820
yes

>>712674820
yeah but u can just hide them in the box if they're shitters

>>712651331 (OP)
Eliwood's legendary art is his best art. Same for Hector.

>>712674820
They're forced deployed on a few maps, but that still doesn't justify Lyn because it isn't enough for her to be worth investing into naturally. Eliwood, however, has the added benefit of being a free deploy for a bunch of early game maps, so he does meet his exp threshold for him to want to see combat in the force deploy chapters

>>712667320
Good for you. I'll play it when the battle screens show actual gameplay elements and not a stock combat animation with tiny HP bars in a tiny window at the top of the screen.

>>712675832
You can mod them in

FE6's hardest map
>A few wyverns alongside more defensive units like cavs and armors
FE7's hardest map
>A contender between Druid+Valkyrie Hell or Fog of War Lunacy
FE7 is way harder than FE6

>>712675832
Your post just reminded me that I bet there's literally no one else here besides me who has ever used FE9's fixed battle camera.

>>712671429
what do you expect from lolcows? they cant control themselves.

>>712675895
I can mod out my interest in playing them and replace it with interest in playing a game that already has them

>>712675992
>A few
Lol.

Imao, even.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl-TQtiTaD0

Edelgard xisters... finally Rhea and Dimitri will get the hate they deserve for being transphobic bigots.

>>712674040
Bloated stats isn't fair at least in FE9 because you don't have tools to work around it other than praying.
Inevitable End is bullshit but those are only on lategame master ninjas for 1 map and by then you'll probably have a bowknight with daggerbreaker and you still have shield gauges to block hits or use a Freeze staff to prevent multiple staff savant users from dog piling you.
Theres no excuse for staff savant though. But you can manipulate the AI to only target some low res shitter instead of your carry or use a silence staff to stop them for a turn so you can get close.

>>712651331 (OP)
He is Roy's father so they had to make him as bad, and didn't give him the OP sword that make Roy not useless.
They at least give him a horse.

>>712676439
>that pfp
I ain't clicking any video with that pfp.

>>712676435
There's 3 of them in ch7, the supposed hardest map in the game. That's a few by any definition I'm aware of.

>>712661513
>>712663391
>FE7 is a really hard game guys
lol. How bad do you have to be at video games.

>>712676612
his recent meltdown about how transitioning hasn't helped him out at all was fun.

>>712676032
Because it doesn't fix shit.

The camera stays still, but that doesnt mean a damn because all the parts of the screen that actually effect that gameplay are shoved up into the top of the screen, the camera's focal depth is still so wide that the stat windows don't pop out enough, and even if that were all good enough, whenever you use an archer or long range attack it does this annoying as fuck dutch angle.

Fuck the way the fuck with the long range camera still makes me mad.

Hmmmm... Don't think that was in the original script.

>>712676873
Well now you got my interest. What more do you have on this guy? I didn't expect that much lol from that pfp.

>>712674820
They give you Athos for free so even if you have played god-awful and lost most of your units you can still beat this map with 2 shitter Lords. Basically, it's not worth deploying them in all the other maps just for this map, especially because HHM has very limited deployment slots.

>>712675832
Good for you i play my games for free and dont support a shitty company and their shitty online services

>>712676647
I assumed they meant chapter 21.

>>712676439
The true route split in Fire Emblem is taking a side in the bizarre, inexplicably chud vs tranny divide in an anime waifu strategy franchise.

FE6 chapter 7 is the hardest GBA map but FE7 has more difficult maps overall

>>712677280
It's funny because Fire Emblem is and has always been highly anti chud.

>>712677318
Marcus and Zelot are required to beat that chapter.

>>712677318
FE7 has harder maps because some of them have lose conditions that aren't just "Roy dies".

>>712677280
There's not really a divide. A bunch of trannies just latched on to Edelgard and everyone normal laughed at them after playing more than one route.

>>712677420
Man forget Edelgard. Every second romhack has a fantasy tranny character. Every first romhack is some kind of aryan power fantasy.

Return to Kelik. The Last Promise should've been The Last Romhack.

>>712677318
It really shows you how little people use Rescue when they consider a map like FE6 C7 the hardest. C22 is harder and certainly a more complex map.

>>712677280
It's not surprising at all.
Every character in modern Fire Emblem is either a faggot or a whore.

>>712677124
I say just check out the kiwi farms thread for the highlight clips, its in their fire emblem thread, page 234, you'll know it when you see it.
But highlights include
>Getting molested by their surgeon
>the trans surgeon botching the operation
>complaining about being a man for ten years
>complaining about having no friends or family contacts
>Complains about even without a penis, they still feel phantom erections
>Still recommends the surgery in spite of all of this.
It's fucking wild lmao.

>>712677592
you mean the zephiel map where there is literally nothing rushing you in any way? be serious

>>712677318
>FE6 chapter 7
It's not actually that bad if you understand how the enemy AI works. In my last ironman, I cleared it with no casualties despite having already previously lost Rutger.

>>712677671
Thanks.

>>712677175
Or you play with them normally. So you have decent units AND not have two deadweights for your last mission. The FE7 lords aren't so bad that it's not worth leveling them at all.

>>712677318
Battle Before Dawn is much harder, and is legitimately one of the hardest maps in the entire series. It shows off just how nasty FE can get with its systems without relying on just overinflating stats.
Plus, for all the boasting about muh efficiency by metafags, this is one of the few maps that truly tests it out, be it through preps for the map, kills per combat requirements, effective fog management, looting, lowering the turn count and making sure that what you're doing is consistent. Yet, it is one of the most hated maps ever.

>>712677709
>you mean the zephiel map where there is literally nothing rushing you in any way?
What are you smoking? There's a insane wave of Paladins and Wyvern Guards heading your way basically the entire stage.

>>712677671
>They're actually calling out the retarded Vaike guy instead of taking his "analysis" as gospel just because it goes against the grain.
Zased. Better than reddit and here.

>>712678202
look up "fire emblem binding blade chapter 22"

He played the long game

>>712678186
Eliwood's alright if his swingy growths win the coinflips, Lyn's stats are pathetic. They both get some more use in JP FE7 which has 3x effectiveness, I think Eliwood's often decent there, but I don't think Lyn's worth the effort, even if you play Lyn mode it's a more attractive prospect to invest the statboosters into Sain or Kent depending on who gets better levels.

>>712659490
What 0 Mark dick does to her overtime

>>712678186
>The FE7 lords aren't so bad that it's not worth leveling them at all.
they are

>>712678202
Other than simply outmaneuvering them, you have several movement staves, several high mov units, a shitton of terrain that the wyverns can't use at all, status staves that you can spam and you can just pick a direction for your army to run in to avoid most of the map. The first time I've played the map, I've effortlessly beat it simply by abusing the terrain and keeping Roy surrounded by units

We need a FE6 remake the most
For two reasons related to Roy
First we can't let him be a "kill the final boss in one turn" bot all his life
Second he is 15 and people draw him like an adult. We need to reclaim the cute boy status stolen by smash bros, this has been catastrophic for his image

He's the king. King are suppose to be bad for balance.

>>712678397
To be fair, I do think I one shot it as well when playing. However, that was a normal non Ironman run. I really can't fucking imagine going at this stage without being properly prepared.

>>712678434
FE6 remake should also be a Binding Blade remake.

It's one of the most obvious two games in one deal imaginable. Roy's bases depending on who Eliwood fucked would also be cool.

>>712678434
I always found it funny how two of Roy's most defining features that set him apart from other lords are how he's a small man and how he pulls an abnormally large amount of pussy

>>712677818
Looking at that hit rate and FE6 hit rates in general, wouldn't missing a crucial 60% ruin everything? That's my typical FE6 experience

>>712678328
Elibadsucks and his stats are like below average.
Like he will get wrecked at the final map even when trained.

>>712678658
Those are the silver lance reinforcements, he probably has already pretty much cleared the map so he should have a backup plan with his free units.

>>712678658
At some point you just start planning around your misses in the same way you plan around whether you crit or don't crit

>>712678608
I miss child units from Fates and Awakening. They add way to many units to the game and fuck the interaction quality between units but still

>>712668552
>Eliwood has C rank in swords at base
>The Steel Blade is a C rank sword
Eliwood is EliGOOD confirmed

>>712678615
Don't most Fire Emblem lords get a lot of pussy? Marth is too much of a honor fag to even consider cheating on Caeda. Alm and Sigurd basically don't seem to notice women exist outside of their respective love interest. Ike is Ike. But the rest has a pretty big selection of love interests.

>>712678714
A trained Eliwood will be a few points below Harken in bulk and STR and they'll be about equivalent in SPD. Harken's one of your best combat units, Eliwood's alright. Mid at least.

>>712678658
yes and chapter 7 is where this issue is at its worst
mostly because most units you have will not realistically surpass ~70 hit against the wyverns, and there's enough stuff harassing you each turn to where it's hard to actually have a backup strat if any of the 2-4 hits you need to kill them misses

>>712678775
>a backup plan
One should always have a backup plan! But yeah, in that particular case it was: enemy phase them > still alive? swing again on player phase > still alive? other units swarm.

>>712678840
I mean, that's exactly why a FE6 remake would work fantastically. Kid units are basically already in the game, just need to change their stats depending on who their parents fuck.

The best part is that every kid unit in FE6 really needs the boost. They all nigh on uniformly suck. Lilina and Raigh being the best is pretty damning, frankly.

>>712678954
It's funnier with Roy

>>712679201
It's funnier mostly because every girlfriend he gets dramatically outperforms him. The only character that is more outperformed is Shadow Dragon Marth watching his girlfriend eradicate 90% of the game with a forged Wing Spear.

>>712678971
If you treat availability as a real metric, Eliwood is as good as Harken imo. As someone who treats availability as retardation though, I'd say Eliwood is worse because Harken kicks ass at a crucial point no matter what you do, but Eliwood is still good because he still is far more competent than the enemies early on and scales well to the requirements of the game.

>mango troons are shilling their favorite eceleb jankhacks that nobody but them liked

>>712651331 (OP)
I believe Eligood

>eliwood is as good as harken
just who are elikeks trying to fool?

>>712679502
Eligood is flat earther tier stuff for basically the same reasons, just have fun with it

I think it's clear that a lot of people here have only ever played the games once and never again and form your opinions based on that singular run. I've had runs where supposedly 'garbage' units were my stars and good ones became absolute shit. My last run I didn't even have a Paladin because ALL THREE of Sain, Kent and Lowen kept rolling absolute fucking garbage in all their stats and it just wasn't worth it to keep dumping XP into them.

The best unit is the one that rolls good stats. Forget growth rates. If they aren't getting good rolls after a few levels, bench them.

A fire emblem game but every unit is awful so people stop arguing which one is better to cheese the game

>If you treat availability as a real metric, Eliwood is as good as Harken

>>712678971
His str is awful wtf are you talking about?
And for the majority of the game he is afootloked jobber with 1 range so you have to ittentionally feed shit or him and stall maps which is just awful.

>>712679559
Just stop playing shitty games (GBA ones). This isn't a problem in the games with a semblance of balance (rest of the series). Growths matter but are not outsized in importance.

>>712679563
if everyone is awful, no one is

>>712679559
If you aren't doing a Ironman run you don't know how good certain units are.

That is why I can say, without any doubt, that Midia and Astram are both trash in FE1.

>>712678954
Leif also has a locked love interest. Eliwood and Hector respectively only get three options, Ephraim has four paired endings but one is to Eirika and another is to Myrrh which complicates counting. Chrom has a distinctly small list of options.

Roy has six love interests. Only Seliph competes and he technically has like a dozen, but only half of them can exist in a given run due to how Genealogy works and not all of them are "real".

The other thing that sets Roy apart though, and arguably gives him an edge over modern MU lords, is that some of Roy's love interests are in love with him before you even get C rank compared to the sort of progress agnostic supports in the S rank games. Roy's just inexplicably the harem lord for no reason at all.

>>712679572
Well, yeah. Harken should lose a bunch of points for joining late despite how good he is, while Eliwood should get a bunch of points for joining early. I think it's ridicoulous too, which is why I immediately dismissed such a premise and called him worse than Harken.

>>712679563
We'll just argue which one is the least awful.

>>712679801
You don't get how availability works. It's not a free meal ticket. You have to be GOOD while you're available, too. Harken is good while he's available, so his late availability is a mark against him but he's still good, so that's that. Eliwood is bad while he's available so it's almost like he isn't available in the first place.

>>712679563
According to the well ordered principle there would still be at least one best out of the worst.

>>712679791
>Leif
In Thracia? I know in genealogy he can end up with whoever.

> is that some of Roy's love interests are in love with him before you even get C rank compared to the sort of progress agnostic supports in the S rank games
Isn't that mostly just Lilinia?

>>712679271
It's my understanding that men of culture find that sort of thing attractive. At least so they tell me.

>>712679563
SD gets pretty close

>>712680131
>SD
>The game in which having decent weapon rank means you can operate as a god.

>>712679559
This is how I like to play. If a unit is stat screwed? Fuck it, bench em. Unit blessed? They get more resources. 50% growth units like Eliwood are prone to variance, he can be good if he gets some consecutive levels and you're certainly giving him some combat in the early-game while he's force deployed.

>>712679791
Roy just has a certain natural charm

>>712680282
It's because 15 is peak male sexual attractiveness age.

>>712680227
His problem is his bases. Every time someone think the problem is coinflip growths, it actually comes down to garbage ass bases. Marcus has some of the worst growths in the game and he's still fucking excellent.

>>712679957
Eliwood is also good while he's available, being on the upper echelon of your units unless you want to pretend that he's somehow worse than at least Dorcas, Bartre and Rebecca as well as arguably worse than most other early units, or that being a free deploy for several maps is bad. If availability is so arbitrary, then you might as well call Sain bad since he has a harsher start than Eliwood does without Lyn mode.

>>712680341
Shouldn't promotion take care of that?

>>712679957
If you get Harken you don't get Kenshin though right? I'm not leaving without the coolest swordmaster. It's Harken or Isadora I haven't played a non randomized 7 in about 12 years

>>712680341
Yeah his bases are ass, it does take some luck for him to be a genuinely good unit that is ORKOing stuff other than Rapier effectiveness in JP. But even on average he's good enough to pull his weight, he's just outcompeted. The argument there is his force deployment while still being a decent unit.

>>712653665
Rapier is bad and a noob trap. English FE7 rapier is unforgivable.

>>712680512
I swear people who hype him up are thinking of their Eliwood mode playthroughs where first of all it's just way easier and second of all he gets a starting chapter of just his ideal enemies to fight so he can get a few levels and gain some momentum.

>>712659395
ANNIHILATE MILF PUSSY

>>712680593
Putting aside whether it makes him good, Eliwood actually tends to rank higher on Hector mode runs due to the difference in promotion timings

>>712680551
Rapier can be a noob trap. Or it can be like in FE1 and 3 where it allows Marth to basically murder half of the map.

>everyone memes on GBA archers for being terrible, especially the female ones
>it's (mostly) true, Dorothy, Rebecca and Neimi are fucking bad

>play Eligor's Spear, one of the hardest GBA romhacks
>one of the main lords is a female archer
>she's the 2nd best unit in the game

>>712680350
>he's better than Dorkass, Buttre, and Rekekka no Ken so he's good
I'm just not following, I'm afraid
>>712680350
>If availability is so arbitrary
It's not arbitrary but it's also not the that you seem to think it is. You can think of it like a descending multiplier. Units have a starting value and an availability coefficient, let's say. Maybe Marcus has a value of 20, and Eliwood a value of 3. Their availability multiplier is 1, let's say. So they come out to 20 and 3.

Now let's say Harken has a value of 20 too, for the sake of argument. But his multiplier is .5. He comes out to 10. Still better than a 3.

>>712680350
>Eliwood is also good while he's available
Problem is HHM gives you no deployment slots. He's realistically not getting deployed again ch 15 onwards
>7 free deployment slots
>Marcus
>Lowen
>Oswin
>Matthew
>Erk
>Priscilla
Leaves one space for Eliwood, and at that point he's just worse than HM bonus Guy. And then you get Kent, Sain, Florina, and soon Raven and there's just no contest.

>>712680551
Even with double effectiveness, it's basically a Silver Sword against lances early on, and is perfectly equal to the FE6 Rapier in might. However, what makes the FE7 Rapier actually valuable is using it for non-effective damage as well, since it gives Eliwood the extra might he needs to compete with other units, allowing him to hit enemies as hard as Lowen while also benefitting from the Rapier's superior stats and crit. It also helps against the surprisingly common early game nomads with 14 effective might, who are annoying to deal with otherwise.

>>712679559
>I think it's clear that a lot of people here have only ever played the games once and never again and form your opinions based on that singular run
We need 3H babies to play the game more than once before they are allowed to discuss it

>>712680750
Romhackers like to "fix" problems in the games they hack. Sometimes it's a good idea and sometimes it's just plain ridiculous like the Biased Quiver in Morrow Golden Country

>>712680750
ROMhacks love to correct Archers because they're pretty weak in GBA. FE6 has Klein and Shin who are good. FE7 doesn't have much use for any of them. FE8, Innes is good statistically, but FE8 has weak enemies who don't need his combat, the tough enemies are one-shot by Slayer and holy weapons, and you'd rather just send in your 1-2 mounted units. ROMhacks get around it by giving Archers additional range and generally having enemies of tougher stock to justify offensively oriented player phase units.

>>712653665
Eliwood's actually pretty good in Hector mode cuz you can promote him with the 1st heaven seal and get him on javelins asap
plus he gets the durandal and is force deployed on basically every map anyway

>>712681006
I would say Nomads as a whole are good in FE6 just because they cleave through Wyvern riders.

>ROMhacks love to correct Archers because they're pretty weak in GBA
To be fair, they are fucking pathetic in FE1 as well.

>>712658632
That would be Hector.

garbage

>>712681109
I can fix her

>>712680863
>3H out of NOWHERE
Obsessed

>>712680909
Honestly the only things you need to do to make early game archers good is to give them competitive bases with other units, because 2 range lock is NOT an inherent advantage, which IS seems to misunderstand when they give your chapter 1 cav twice the stats your chapter 1 archer gets, and to actually have flying enemies around.

>>712667320
>extremely bulky enemies
>just swarms of enemies that dont die
>only challenge is not falling asleep

I haven't played through DS SD in years and have been thinking about doing it recently, I remember like 12 better but is it worth playing through SD again or should I let it live on in my childhood instead?

Cutesythea

>>712681092
I think Sue's alright myself, hard to compare her to Shin and Klein who come good out the box though. Dayan looks good enough to shoot down Wyverns.

>>712680909
Avani is pushed for sure, but Eligor's Spear also features fewer, stronger enemies compared to GBA games and a unit with Player Phase power + 3 range Longbow hits both matter a lot more than they do in Handaxe/Javelin spam and cav rush that are GBA FE.
You could plop regular old Rebecca in Avani's place and she'd be pretty good.

>>712680848
Meh, I have reason to use him by then still, I find.
>Fuck Erk, I'd rather use Canas or Lucius
>Guy usually gets benched since he loses value each map due to competing with Raven for his promo and Swordmaster not being a very good class, plus his growths often lead to him getting screwed
>The Rapier still makes me want to use Eliwood since the effective damage is still allowing him to stay relevant longer
>The Hector support helps both immensely and is piss easy to get
>Eliwood has good growths, so he can get competitive with other units who haven't started getting exp yet or units who lost their relevance
>Swords are pretty useful on a few maps such Badon and Heath's chapter even discounting the Rapier

>>712681331
SD is a very solid game to replay if you're willing to accept the jank of it. It's pretty peak iron man emblem and you can do a lot of adjustment to your run, like deciding to go for every gaiden on H5 which changes the gameplay dynamic so that you're managing units as suicide troop.

>>712681109
She can nostank with a Pure Water/Barrier boost against mages

>>712680750
>remember her getting awful growths
>also annoyingly required for a few recruitments
>must have early promoted her
I don't care if Eligor's Spear has a new route I hated the first one.

ff7 is piss easy on his hardest difficulty anyways, so why should I care?
I just use who I like

>>712681160
That and actually make the game more player phase oriented. Like in FE12, reclassing someone strong and fast into a sniper is viable for a bit since you don't take counterattacks from the enemy's forged silver weapons.

>>712681557
so can raigh who can do it better what's your point

>>712681626
Yeah, Tifa curbstomps the game anyways, so easy

>>712681452
You're too focused on "long-term potential" when the deployment slot issue only gets worse the further you get. At the beginning, you should just be deploying whoever is most useful at that moment. Eliwood is pretty fucking useless 15 onwards. Even if you don't like Erk, he's obviously better against the 0 res lance enemies than Eliwood, and if you want to replace him with Canas later, that doesn't somehow make Eliwood more valuable, because he's still competing with Canas' spot then.

>>712681610
Damn your Avani got bad fucking levels holy shit. Mine was like 3 higher in every stat and I promoted at level 14.
Runaway route is indeed better than Grismond route if you do feel like replaying the game.

>>712681723
That she can do it, and she has the (very slight) advantage of being a free deploy in Arcadia in case you don't want to use Ray.
Shitposting aside, my schizo theory is that Ray was supposed to join at level 1 while Sophia got autoleveled to 15, but IS screwed up and did the opposite.

>>712681896
>Shitposting aside, my schizo theory is that Ray was supposed to join at level 1
Yeah no chance. Sophia is clearly supposed to be an Est, but they fucked up and made her growths shit.

>>712682004
Nigga sopia has above average growths.
Wtf are you on about?

>>712681823
I've defended short term and long term value for Eliwood, read the entire post instead of hyperfocusing on one thing I've said that ticked you off. To repeat myself briefly, Eliwood is in this nice spot where he's both more experienced than the other units that need investment giving him a headstart due to being competent enough or very competent, while having more potential than the units who have some competence but who keep having less and less reasons to stay deployed.

>>712681331
I really like H5 SD. The reclassing system is fun and while early-game is very difficult you have some strong tools to lean on and it doesn't feel unreasonable.

>>712682004
Ests are a meme. The reality is, IS has always put in weak, shitty, underleveled units and there's no deeper meaning to it than that. Players feel this is wrong as all units should have a "point" - some kind of reward for the effort - but IS has its own agenda. Sophia is a weak little girl, so this is reflected in the gameplay. It's that simple.

>>712681849
>feel like replaying
Not fuckin happening. If I wanted a game where the enemies don't miss and my dudes die in two hits I'd play XCOM.

>>712682004
>Sophia is clearly supposed to be an Est
>they fucked up and made her growths shit
Then her being an Est isn't actually clear. You're contradicting yourself with this logic.

>>712681160
Giving them better EXP gain(like thieves?) since they attack less would do a lot for them too.

>>712682329
Sophia's supports suggest that she's very powerful, and her backstory as a half dragon with years of experience in the dark arts would make you think that she doesn't start at level 1. I think Ray, the inexperienced bratty kid who stole a Nosferatu tome to learn dark magic, makes way more sense as a level 1 unit.

How fucked am I?

>>712682249
>Above average
They're arguably worse than Raigh's. She has a higher magic growth I guess but he has an actually workable speed stat which is a lot more valuable
>>712682329
>>712682329
IS clearly likes the idea of having low level units who join late but have a potential "payoff" for training them. Not sure why you disagree with giving that general idea a name. It's not like her growths are *bad*, either. They're just kind of average and IS probably didn't do all of the math on her averages to see that. FE6 is a rushed game, so I'm fine with calling her a flawed Est since it's the intention that matters.

>>712682574
They have never cared to connect support writing or even main story writing with gameplay. Tons of example of this. Look at Astram.

>>712682623
You're fine. One kid is a dancer so it doesn't matter and the other one joins so late and underleveled he's hardly even worth bringing out of the castle.

>>712682623
Your Corple will be worthless, but your Lena will be decent. No matter the husband, the dancer will be good.

>>712682574
If only supports weren't fucking STUPID to get in those games.

>>712682545
Order of the Crimson Arm does this on top of giving them Iron/Steel/Silver Longbows, it's pretty crazy. Turns them into player phase monsters for sure.

>>712682623
Who cares who she fucks, her daughter only needs to dance and Corple is the worst staff bot in the game that his replacement gets ranked higher than him

>>712682693
>IS clearly likes the idea of having low level units who join late but have a potential "payoff" for training them.
Because it's just not true. It's wishful thinking imposed upon the game design by a player base eager to see patterns in the grass. To the point that you're claiming Sophia is "supposed" to be an Est while acknowledging she fails to meet a key condition of an Est (great growths). It's loony. If there is no Est, players will make one up. If they can't make one up, they'll supply an explanation, a mitigating factor. Instead of accepting it's just not a real, intentional thing.

Same deal with the Oifey. Not real. Jagen is, not Oifey.

>>712682727
I know that my evidence hinges on Sophia's baffling game balance being a mistake and the writing suggesting that she's strong, but IS made the exact same mistake with Fiona where they failed to autolevel her properly so it is possible. Granted, it's not strong evidence and IS could've just been retarded in this instance, but that's why I call it my schizo theory.
As for Astram, he at least has the defense of being pretty good in FE1 and FE3, even if IS kind of forced him into being more powerful than he should be storywise in book 2.

>>712682917
and they are all still shit
I only ended up using the prepromote Wil reskin they give you late in the game

>>712682956
its less her and more who is claude going to give the valk staff to now, I've already paired off everyone else. I guess i could use it and revive noishe who died in chap 3 (lmao)

>>712683175
I don't agree, I've played it a few times and Boleslav and the blonde archer are always great.

>>712683153
nobody gets autoleveled in the GBA games besides the FE8 lord you didn't pick the route for
they just simply made a shit unit with shit stats

>>712682329
okay but this particular filler unit is a cute girl so I will train her

>>712683065
>To the point that you're claiming Sophia is "supposed" to be an Est while acknowledging she fails to meet a key condition of an Est (great growths)
I don't think "good growths" is actually necessarily a key condition. If Sophia had higher bases, even if they were still bad for the point of the game that she joined, just average growths would be good enough to make her stronger than the majority of the cast when leveled. I disagree with the idea that IS makes intentionally bad characters other than when they're joke characters like Shanam. I'm confident her poor stats are just another thing they would have fixed if the game had another few months of dev time along with shit like HM bonuses.

>>712683196
Yeah use it lol, in the game that allows you to save each turn you shouldn't need a safety net like that

>>712683452
If she had good bases and she grew well, she'd just be a regular unit. That's why I say it's a meme archetype. It's so ill defined, so amorphous. Means all things to all people, therefore it means nothing.
A Jagen is the starting prepromote with good stats. Usually a knight or retainer to the lord. Often specifically a horseman.
What's an Est? Just a shitty unit that might turn out good, or might turn out bad?

>>712683065
>she fails to meet a key condition of an Est (great growths).
Most Ests are closer to being Linde than Est, but even Linde has good growths.
Sophia doesn't even qualify for a Linde, Lilina is closer.

>>712683648
>If she had good bases and she grew well, she'd just be a regular unit.
No, I don't mean good bases, I mean great bases *for a level 1*. So the idea would be even with just average to above average growths, they have the potential to reach higher highs. Obviously this isn't something that actually matters in GBA FE, but I'd still consider a character who had stats like that and joined late to be an Est.

>>712683767
I personally hate that Astrid has been called an Est. Totally average growths, doesn't even join late. But she has Paragon so she grows well in that sense. But that feels too expansive. Growth skills make the Est? Is Mozu an Est? She's also underleveled. But she joins early, so that disqualifies her...?
Hm

The actual Est of FE6 is Zeiss, but HM bonuses threw a wrench in that idea. Ironically, he still isn't that good since he still has to deal with D rank lances, being a few levels behind promotion and fierce competition for slots.

>>712683934
Est is meaningless as a term now.
Farina- real Est
Nino- fake Est

sophia was meant to be an est just trust me bro!

>>712683956
He is a flier.
That gurantees him to be good.

>>712683956
Not to mention realistically there's only like 2 promotion items for his class and at that point you already spent them.

>HM bonuses weren't intentional just trust me bro!

>>712684346
Nigger he spawns on the tile that sells more what

>>712684346
Nigga his joining map sells promo items.

>>712681537
>>712682293
Cool I might try an ironman of it then.

shannam is an est

>>712684347
Funny enough this all started when mangs told everyone that they were a bug.
Bro got his opinin from a ytber.

>>712684346
There's 3, actually. He can easily promote as long as you haven't promoted at least one of your other fliers. Plus, he luckily joins right next to the secret shop selling promo items, so you can still easily promote him even if you promoted every other flier in the game.
Whips are the only promo items that are far too common in FE6.

>>712684346
the game gives you 3 elysian whips before you even count the secret shop

>>712684465
just in case this hadn't already been memed and shitposted about enough

>>712684347
HM Bonuses in FE6 have a list of characters supposed to not receive them, including all playable characters. They were intentional for enemies, not your recruitable units.
Shitty programming made the list only work on half of the playables.

>>712684416
>>712684447
But what about the opportunity cost of buying a different promotion item with your limited money?

>>712684504
You can edit the game yourself and find it.

>>712684565
>Money problems
Skill issue.

The most Chad unit

>>712683648
Est's are characters recruited late with low levels and bases but amazing growths, the opposite of a Jagen with its high bases, early recruitment and low growths.

>>712684565
If you are struggling to afford promo items on 16 idk what you've been spending money on but it's undoubtedly retarded as fuck. In the relay we bought several promo items and then decided to buy like 3 angelic robes for Roy because you have unlimited money

>>712684565
Oh no, instead of buying 20 Swiftsoles, I'll only be able to buy 19.

promoted roy is an est

>>712684565
Even if you used your 3 whips, id argue if you're going to spend money on an extra promo item, using it for Zeiss is a pretty good idea.

>>712684697
Baded

>>712684347
They are a bug in FE6, which is why they are attributed in such a strange manner to units there.
>The unit starts on the map while red?
Get fucked!
>The unit appears as an reinfocement?
Whoops, must be a normal enemy, time to give him bonuses
>The unit starts red on one map, but is a reinforcement on the other map?
No bonuses the first time, but bonuses the second
>The unit is red purely for a cutscene and recruits herself before you ever interact with her at all?
LMAO GET BONUSES!

>>712684640
I don't like optimizing everything anymore.
That's also why I didn't get all promotion items either.
If you think I'm a retard then maybe you are right, but I'm having fun and I'll beat the game regardless, and faster than you.

>>712684779
why do you act like this is 'strange'
you literally explained it quite simply:
>The unit starts on the map while red? = No Bonus
>The unit appears as an reinfocement? = Bonus

my merlinus got hand axe'd in the narcian map so i couldn't buy stuff cause i put the silver card on the backpack

>>712684653
So...Est, Sara, Miranda, and arguably FE15 Delthea? Wouldn't call Nino's growths "amazing." Maybe she could be elected in on a pity vote. Is that enough for a category?

+4 AS oh yeahhhh

>cursed growths
You dont get it. Eliwood is worth an early deployment slot 100% of the time because he is worth a late deployment slot 20% of the time, which is 20% more than oswin or guy or erk or raven will ever be worth. Fire emblem is a game where you spend five maps solving dread isle and then spend 10 maps building an army that can solve bbd and cog and limstella (if you can beat limstella you can assist athos in his Final clear). Early game units simply dont matter, which is why marcus is so good - he isnt an EXP drain because there is nothing to give EXP to.

>>712684779
I know they are, but I'm just trying to make the point that it's not difficult to tell the intention behind something in the game even if the devs scewed up. I don't believe they intended for Sophia to be comically awful, even if I don't technically have any proof of that.

>>712684965
Because it clearly doesn't work as a clear set bonus, but rather as a glitchy effect based off the game loading in a unit incorrectly. It gives strange results such as Percival getting bonuses in one case and no bonuses in the other case as well as Milady getting bonuses despite not ever being an enemy due to her being loaded as an enemy for a cutscene.

>>712685110
These games, and their clones, always have balancing issues with early units becoming too strong for late joiners to matter or mid-late game units being too strong because the devs wanted to make sure that the player could complete the game even if they lost some units along the way.
Also, weak late game units for masochists.

>>712684779
But how do we know for sure they are a bug? The devs would have to have done 0 playtesting because you can see a sizeable change in Rutger's stats early on

>>712685110
Eliwood is worth an early deployment slot 100% of the time because he is worth a late deployment slot 20% of the time, which is 20% more than oswin or guy or erk or raven will ever be worth.
Raven is a good late deployment unit, unlike Eliwood, who gets benched.

wow Raven is pretty good

Did they not even try fixing HM bonuses in FE7? Never heard of a list existing for that game

>>712685348
>The devs would have to have done 0 playtesting
IS are notorious for that kek.

>>712685451
HM bonuses in FE7 are seemingly intentional, actually

>>712685097
im bouto busttt

>>712685451
They fixed it by simply making them into a feature. If a unit is red at any point before recruitment, he get bonuses. Simple as.

>>712685351
>Raven is a good late deployment unit
Hes like a worse hawkeye/heath that also takes warp uses or horses to carry across the map and in return he chips linus for 8 damage before getting doubled and killed. At least he helps clear valks about as good as isadora?

>>712685587
>worse Hawkeye/Heath
>Is superior in basically every stat to both Hawkeye and Heath

Alright, fags. Settle it through Fire Emblem by ironmanning the game and using whatever strat you want. When you beat the game, fight it out in the battle arena

>>712685348
The GBA games are very well understood due to romhacking being so prominent on the titles. People opened up FE6 and found out that the code in the cartridge basically goes like this
>Units are indexed in the game
>Enemy units in the index receive stat bonuses on the hard mode
>Enemy units who are recruitabble are all specifically and uniquely flagged not to receive stat bonuses, this flag doesn't exist on other playables or not non-playable enemies
>A code is run every chapter in order to check for this flag and prevent stat bonuses
>There's a visible error in the code that prevents it from doing its job correctly
So we know for a fact that it's a bug. Game development back then was pretty different from how it is now anyways so MOST video games weren't playtested in the era. FE isn't the exception, it was the standard.

>>712680350
Sain is a cavalier in gba. Peak horse emblem.

>>712685678
You dont need skill and def and luck and hp to deal damage to 23+2 defense bosses. The problem with raven, like erk, is that he is really really good at killing the things that any other unit can also kill.

>>712685919
>Ok yeah he's better than the units I said he was worse than but why does that matter

the only problem raven has is that hes not on a horse

>>712685096
That's one less than than the Bord/Cord archetype under my possibly exaggerated classification, so i'd say so. A purer way of describing them would probably be weaker units in the late game that can, in theory, grow to be strong units, but in practice you can get a Nino or Sophia.

>>712686184
Which is a pretty big problem, when there's several units who do exactly what he does. Horses happen to be extremely important in FE7 to either carry your few strong infantry around or to maneuver through the bullshit the difficult maps throw at you.

>>712686184
His problem is that he drops off a cliff in later chapters once boss defense starts outclassing his abysmal str growth. Raven peaks during the easiest part of the game when any promoted blue unit rolls over an army of level 7 pirates with steel weapons and shamans with nosferatu.

Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6NScbu7lEQ

>>712686342
>his abysmal str growth
Wtf am I reading I need to get off this site man you niggers just lie constantly about literally anything

>>712686342
>>712686504
some people on this site really just type shit and hope it's right

>>712686504
Basically a coinflip, hot garbage

>>712686504
This is a bad rate for a growth unit. To put it in perspective, a raven with 20 levels will have gained 11 attack over this period, putting him at a LETHAL (to brigands) 19. Any unpromoted 'growth' unit with less than 70% str/mag growths cannot scale into FE7's hardmode lategame.
>this is ALL of the growth units in unmodded fe7
Yes

>>712686440
I don't feel like watching the video.
The answer is probably:
>Low mobility
>Low damage and/or fragile
>Cucked by the weapon triangle
>Joins at level 1 on like chapter 15

>>712686342
Level 15/5 HM Raven matches Hawkeye in MT, by the way.

>>712651331 (OP)
because you touch yourself at night

>>712686807
Raven has 10 base Str on average in HHM, anon.
He's at 21 at this point. Have you even played HHM?

>>712686807
Have you considered giving Raven the Steel Blade for extra strenght? His high skill means that he won't miss with it, and it will squeeze out more damage than the Steel sword until he makes it to A rank and can use Silvers instead.

>>712686504
I said it up there, people base it off of their experiences playing the game. My Raven also had pretty garbage stats.

>>712686651
My dude that's one of the better strength growths in FE7. There's not that many that has higher than 50%.

>>712686807
>This is a bad rate for a growth unit.
A growth unit who joins with 10 strength at level 5? Fucking kill yourself you actual retard.

this thread has had some of the lowest IQ discourse in a long while

>>712685984
>they both kill the thing
You can't be better than dealing 100% damage. Either you deal enough to kill the enemy and you're equivalent or you don't. That's a huge problem people have with viewing units, comparing the units in a vacuum is all well and good, but what the stats are actually for is hitting enemies and if they have the same performance in this department it doesn't matter past how far they can move. This is why Marcus stays good.

>>712686807
>less than 70%
the highest STR/MAG rate is 65% and it's on fucking Dart
Raven's 55% is one of the highest.

>>712686964
>My Raven also had pretty garbage stats.
I actually don't think this is possible unless you're playing on normal. Even the most cursed Raven has insane stats on HM

>>712686964
Bases>Growths. 55% means that he doesn't level strenght around half the time and ends up worthless.

>>712686807
nice bait

>>712684649
TETSUOOOO

>>712687019
I don't know what has to go wrong in someone's life that the way they have fun on a Saturday night is making blatantly incorrect statements about an SRPG series and then doubling down when corrected.

>>712686959
>HHM
>hardmode
Wait why are we talking about nerfed limstella, extra weak enemies, buffed ally units 'hard' mode? I am talking about the hardest difficulty in fire emblem 7, hector normal.

>>712687380

>>712687156
Nah my last run was seriously cursed. I don't think I had a single level with strength on him. He really was just relying on those bases.

>>712687374
its just being terminally online and having no friends so like the average youngster atm

>>712687452
Weird things happen. I've had an Eliwood end up with ridiculously blessed stats everywhere... except he only leveled Defense once.

I hope your lovely 3HRT sisters tears apart that supposed FE6 demake

>>712687019
>long while
FE threads are always full of low IQ posts.

>>712687440
Not meming, hector hardmode fucks with a lot of enemies and ends up nerfing a ton of late bosses by capping them to class stats instead of manually overwriting their stats, making the game overall easier because your lategame benchmarks are so much lower. Most notably is that HHM limstella has like 20 def and res at the female sage cap instead of nearly 30 with throne buffs in hector and eliwood normal, meaning that basically any army composition can kill her.

Alright, here's some discussion for you fags. What tile do you put your unit on to choke the point?
>A
Tile going into the enemy territory, maximizing movement and EP attacks but losing out on safety
>B
Choke point tile, where you are in a position that's balanced between enemy and player territory
>C
Tile retreating into the player territory, maximizing safety and PP actions but losing out on movement

>>712678301
>Hector devotes himself to Eliwood's quest
>Eliwood pussies out and just sends his son to Hector's aid, resulting in his death
Some real friend he is.

>>712687787
D. tile to the left of C for the safe darros recruit

>>712682329
>Ests are a meme
I like... memes.

>>712687787
I always lean towards A, but it's contextual obviously. A matters more if you're pushing forward, B is good if you're holding down a choke from reinforcements. C is a fallback plan.

>>712687884
you like to grind fag

>>712687787
Trick question, the enemies in this instance can in fact walk on the water tiles lessening its viability as a choke point.
There's nothing above this point, so B, then maybe C as you're wrapping up.

>>712684818
>t.skill issue

>>712687787
A if the unit doing the choking is so busted that they can survive taking on 3 or more enemies in one enemy phase.
C is the unit is just purely trying to tank and choke. C is superior to B because you can have multiple ranged fighters behind the choker as opposed to just one. Also gives you more flexibility in moving units in and out of the area.

>>712686864
Video pretty much says:
>Armor Knights and Archers are bad from an efficiency standpoint but good for new players to understand their use, unlike Pegs
>Trainees are bad in both aspects
>Units like Seth are bad because of balance

>>712687723
That sounds to fucked up to be true.
Prove it with pics cause i refuse fe6 is that bugged.

>>712687723
I thought you were bullshiting but yeah it looks both EHM & HHM dropped her def/res from 24/27 to 21/25, but in exchange HHM buffed her offenses by up to 3 magic, 2 skill, and 2 speed. But that speed doesn't matter when her constitution dropped by 3.
Even then, the HHM version of the map has more enemies with much higher stats (I see a druid with +10 Mag) so I'm not sure where you're seeing these nerfed enemies

>>712688292
it's only true for limstella

>>712688374
Does the lower constitution matter?
Like how much con does she have otherwise.
And HHM still has lower deployment slots and generics being stronger and more enemies around and more status etc.
Bosses are a small portion of the game.

>>712688292
Another case of
>Find one example of something and then pretend it's representative of the entire game

>>712688465
>Does the lower constitution matter?
Not really, if you kill limstella before she runs out of fimbulvetr uses you performed a miracle.

>>712688290
I was a newbie and I understood pretty well just how powerful Pegasus Knights can be. Maybe I'm just different.

>Efficiency
enjoying the hormonal treatment sis?

I think tis a beginners trap to use ikes regal sord on the early game AK cause ike can one round cavs with it in the midgame til serenes forest instead of doing 5 damage to armors.

These three fight in a free for all battle to the death. Who wins?

>>712688752
Sigurd with Tyrfing > Seth > Sigurd with Silver Sword > Titania

>>712688465
>Does the lower constitution matter?
Not at all since bolting and fimbulvetr already weighs her down by a ton. It's effectively -1 AS. I think the devs just wanted to make her a more threatening bolting user for HHM, but still an interesting change.

>>712688752
Seth. Remember that he's supposed to be nerfed in SS due to an injury and he still has busted ass stats and growths.

>>712688752
Titania loses right out of the gate obviously
Seth holds his own for a while but Sigurd has holy blood

I love how shinon shittalks ike around

>>712688752
honse unit always wins

>>712688840
To be fair the entire standing army of renais is seth and a couple level 4 cav units.

>>712689051
They never needed anyone else. Seth is a one man army.

>>712689051
That just shows you how op Seth is. Even Orson, the second strongest guy in Renais, did not dare fuck with Seth when confronted.

>>712688290
Pegs are easy to lose but I think most people understand that high movement is broken.

>>712688752
Titania goes even with Seth at bases and at average caps. Counter is sadly negligible but if she was allowed RD's Tier 3 she has a chance to win even against Siggy.

>Hardin owns a Silver Sword
>Becomes an evil emperor
>Arvis owns a Silver Sword
>Becomes an evil emperor
>Zephiel owns a Silver Sword
>Becomes an Evil Emperor
>Orson owns a Silver Sword
>Betrays Renais
Never trust a man with a Silver Sword

>>712688919
Ike killing him later is such a kino moment.

>>712688919
Based racist

R-R-R-RELAY??

>>712688608
I dunno how you could get a bad impression of peg knights if your first introduction to them is normal mode Lyn mode Florina.

>>712689725
AURA
AND
HYPE
MOMENTS

>>712688752
Seth wins by default. Titania is forever alone and lol Sigurd.

>>712688752
seth bangs eirika
titania is cucked
sigurd is a cuckold

>>712689792
im playing fe7 right now, just made it to dragons gate

How would his growths be as another lord? Weapon versatility? Supports?

>>712690109
you have been playing fe7 FOR WEEKS and you are only at the dragons gate??
what is this SNAILS PACE

>>712689989
Getting cucked by Ephraim is not a win

>>712690287
What's the rush?

It always kind of amazed me how poorly balanced the GBA games were in retrospect. Not to say that the others games are that much better in that regard, but the simplicity of the game mechanics just makes it more stark.

FE7 having tons of enemies weighing themselves down with Steel weapons is pretty glaring.

>>712690534
ROMhacks surpassed their design a while ago.

>>712690431
Hey I'm not really interested in ERPing out your cuck fetish. Especially not a headcanon'd cuck fetish. So let's just end this reply chain here. I think there's a thread on /trash/ you can go to if you're into that sort of stuff. I don't think anyone here really is.

I don't care for the support system.

>>712690676
Do you have autism

>FE
>balanced
get a load of that idiot

>>712690717
I'm just not interested in the thing's you're interested in is all. This isn't really the thread for that anyway.

>>712689792
It’s in the other thread

>>712690534
thats only a problem for pegasus knights
constitution makes sense in the gba games considering that woman are less buff than men

whenever i play a hackrom and retards give female characters 8+ con just to make the game "balanced" not understanding gender indentity

>put female head in brigand body

>>712690762
I'm not the guy you are replying to, I asked that because there was so obviously no attempt to start a RP of any kind in that post.

>>712690801
I do prefer that female units tend to have weaker con than male units, but the mounted females having weaker horses is ridiculous to me.

>>712690801
The put balance over character.

>>712690913
>obviously no attempt to start a RP of any kind in that post.
>Guy mentions his cuckolding fetish out of NOWHERE
Now I gotta ask if YOU have autism?

>>712690979
Their asses are too huge so there's not enough room for anyone else

>>712691013
Hey I'm not really interested in ERPing out your autism fetish. Especially not a headcanon'd autism fetish. So let's just end this reply chain here. I think there's a thread on /trash/ you can go to if you're into that sort of stuff. I don't think anyone here really is.

>>712691081
>This mad her cuckolding fetish got called out
lol

You can tell someone's absolutely shitter shattered when they start repeating your own shitposting back at you.

Can't believe I got under your skin THIS badly.

Seriously though, no one but you is interested in talking about cuckoldry. Sorry if that makes you upset.

>>712651331 (OP)
1 range sword locked unit with no mount until the end of the game. Then add in the fact that most of your roster is better than him he ends up just sitting on the cart. People give Roy shit but it's not hard to see where he got it from.

why is the guyfag avatarfagging as some gacha bitch now?

Opinions?
https://youtu.be/I0iRaE3oL28?si=FT-6YBwWvVyCsWsD

>>712688752
Please don’t set up my GOAT like this.

>Types like a redditor too

>>712691269
Clickbait.

>>712691269
>Brom
Bro is suprised a unit he gave all of his statboosters and bexp turned out to be good.

>>712690981
this is one major issue with romhacks
they try too hard to make everything balanced that not a single character stands out

playing a game with 30 characters where they all perform exactly the same is no fun at all

you need shit units to make the good ones shine,
there is no rutger or milady without a wolt or barth

theres a reason why balanced revisions of games always miss the mark and are mocked for it, giving short bows 1-2 range, giving all the bows 2-3 range or giving bows absurd might just creates a whole new problem, but romhackers think they are clever and genuinese because
>look at me, i fixed archers, they are good now

>>712691279
Fun Fact:
From an interview it is said that they were tired of old fucks being the jeigan which is why the shaked things up.

>>712691269
PoR is a relatively easy game and any unit that can take multiple hits during enemy phase can find SOMETHING to do. The only truly unsalvagable units are the light female units like mia and illyana with hollow bones and paper skin

>>712691623
Mia is a fast unit tho.
On maniac she is one of the few units who can reliably double most enemies including myrms and swordmasters and crows in he boat maps.
Her having high spd also means that she is one of the ebtter forge users as she attacks twice most of the time and thus uses the extra might twice as efficently.

>>712691506
that's a you issue nigga
if someone in a cast of units is shit they'll just get permabenched without me ever having to think about them again
that is not good design
the only people who get excited by such things are professional internet shitposters who think giving them max favoritism and a bunch of cope makes them le good

>>712691284
>Got BTFO by a redditor
Oof...

>>712692020
oof you are a mentally ill retard with a cuck fetish

>using Mia
>in maniac
did you use cheats sis or tons of resets?

>>712692136
Meant for
>>712691081
>>712690913
>>712690717
>>712690431

>>712691806
Character makes characters good.
If you have 4 cavaliers and they are all exactly the same then what's the point of having 4 cavaliers?
If you lose one then you have another equally capable one ready to go so was there even a loss to begin with?
That sort of logic works for strategy games where the scale is bigger and soldiers are just nameless units, but something like Fire Emblem needs variety.

>>712692201
I played Maniac recently and she is laughably bad from the moment you recruit her.

>>712661113
>got forbid

>>712692224
it's good to have variety, but that doesn't mean you should make units shit on purpose
that's not variety, that's just creating bench juice

>>712692201
People who shit on her dont appreciate her spd and dont know how to use her longterm.
MM filters the gba losers away which i love.

>>712692224
Variety is making statistical differences between the Cavaliers like orienting them towards speed, bulk and damage so there's reason to use them all. Variety is not making 2 good Cavs and 2 shitty Cavs so you always use the good Cavs.

How do you make archers good?
Do you just make enemy pegasus/wyverns OP and put them in every map?

>>712691806
>if someone in a cast of units is shit they'll just get permabenched
>bad game design

this exists to give more power to the player and giving them the desicion on what to deploy

if every unit in your army is good then the descision making is gone because every unit is replaceable

>>712692420
good luck trying to do damage in maniac unless you use forge glitch or sell a band for money

>>712692201
Just think about all the times she dodged 41 boltings at 14% hit over the course of five turns and ignore the time she got oneshot by the 42nd bolting. It was only 14% chance that this particular bolting would hit so its just a run of bad luck that is adding a fifth reset onto the pile.

>>712692446
By creating bad units, you're actually limiting decisions, not creating them, since players will always optimize and most of them will view the bad units as pointless, especially in a difficult context.

>>712692446
>actually having a cast of 90% shit units gives MORE power to the player
most backwards argument you could possibly make
there are infinite ways to make units unique that aren't "lol I gave them 4 str and 5 spd isn't that funny xD"
for how flawed fates can sometimes be it does a solid job of actually giving units something unique they can do while still having a hierarchy of good units vs less good units

>>712692692
>for how flawed fates can sometimes be it does a solid job of actually giving units something unique they can do while still having a hierarchy of good units vs less good units
Class sets and personal skills, mostly. I particularly love personal skills. They've really helped unit identity in the series.

>>712692445
>Boosted exp gain
>Crit bonus on promo
>Not horrible base stats
>Make bows actually stronger than javs and handaxes
There, archers fixed

>>712692630
but can she kill

>>712692621
Already doing.
Turns out its fun to use your brain and not hand axe and javelin everything.

>>712692665
>since the players will always optimize
this goes the other way arround
if every unit is good then you are just playing as the creator of the game wants you to play

the illusion of choice

>but that goes both ways!!
not exactly, if you have shit units you can actually choose and do something with these units, there is no illusion of choice
if every unit is good theere is really no optimizing because the game was already optimized for you

>maniac troons need a glitch if they wanna use their scrimblo

>>712692907
Screenshot of Mia's incredible Maddening damage potential, sis?

>inb4 deflection/cope/excuses for why she can't take a screenshot

>>712692224
Exactly. Fire Emblem’s always thrived when its cast feels more like a ragtag crew with distinct roles and less like a troop of faceless statsheets. It’s why guys like Soren and Gatrie are memorable even if one’s a glass cannon and the other’s a glorified wall – they fill niches and have quirks you work with. Giving every cavalier 7 str/7 skl/7 spd isn't variety, it’s spreadsheet filler. Let me have the speedy reckless one, the dependable tanky one, the one with awful growths but a unique support convo that makes me keep resetting just to keep them alive. That's the FE sauce.

>>712693068
Little did our miss nigga know that i already had a good endgame built for her.

>>712690287
dont rush me the fuck

>release a shit hard mode
>Everyone agrees is bad
>It's so bad devs have to remove it from the game for the revised overseas version
>4chan insist Path of radiance should be played on maniac mode

>shitposters mad that someone is playing on the highest difficulty with their favorite characters (something they're incapable of doing)

>>712693529
I would suggest not playing it as someone that has played it. It's not fun.

>>712693250
And here's a lv19 Mia in Chapter 9. She's so good huuhhh?? Right guys??

>>712693590
>Shows a jobber who doesnt know how to use her
Kek you thought i couldnt post a screenshot and then got keked.
And now youre shilling your nigtuber in and think you accomplished something.

>>712693250
>>712693572
Hey... wait a minute... why can't that Feral One attack back? That sure is... odd...

Also kind of weird how zoomed in the screenshot is...

Well I'm sure it's nothing haha.

>>712693529
>release hard mode
>its good but you need high iq to play
>release game to western audience
>dumb down the games because americans are fat and stupid

Reminder that IS doesn't want you to bench your units, and wants you to see the value in scrimblos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PiRzNharBs

>>712693716
That laguz got petrified which in this game just increases your hit against them.
Without it all that would have changed was her hitrate being at 70is.

>>712656460
Rapier isnt good in FE7 because its only X2 damage in it and most shit its meant to kill are using lances so it gets disadvantage.

>>712693716
>Mia is so fucking bad she can't kill enemies 100% of the time with cheated stats

>>712693861
>If mia is so good then prove it with a screenshot!
>*proves it*
>C-CHEATS!!!
Keks are like this.

>>712693838
How did it get petrified?
And another thing that would change is that she would take a counterattack.
>>712693954
Show her stat screen

>>712690801
IS is very random when it comes to con gaps between male/female versions of classes. For example, Hero M/Hero F is just a difference of 1 Con while SM M/SM F has a massive gap of 3 Con. Sometimes, its sort of balanced by the time you get to caps since girls tend to have higher speed caps than boys, but caps are irrelevant outside of link arena.
8 Con isn't even all that impressive on a lance user. you're bleeding as on everything except iron lances and many pegasi have to build up sword rank from scratch. the real loss is being worse at rescuing stuff but most romhacks uncap mounted con in an attempt to encourage more flexibility in movement (same goes for rescue staves and shove being common)

>>712693954
It's a near capped STR Mia which she definitely doesn't come close to on average.

>>712693854
It's still as strong as a Silver that you get to use early on with effective damage, and as strong as a Steel with far better accuracy, weight and crit against non effective enemies. It's a good weapon in general.

>>712693838
>>712693861
>Needs to rely on a Skill/2% skill proc from ANOTHER CHARACTER to reliably kill one(1) enemy and not immediately eat shit.
Holy kek. Miafags this was your big moment. No wonder the screenshot is so zoomed in. Little bitch didn't want us to see the entire rest of the army carrying Mia's weak ass.

>appears since chapter 2
>Gives you free stats every chapter
>Marrying him makes your MU unkillable
Will we ever get a husband as devoted as Silas?

>>712694002
Mastery skill.
Wont matter cause she kills in a crit anyway.
Also you need to wait for that cause i am busy playing my current Fe9 MM playthrough and i am in the middle of a chapter.

>>712694132
>>Also you need to wait for that cause i am busy playing my current Fe9 MM playthrough and i am in the middle of a chapter.
>I can't take a screenshot right now of my Mia, I need to edit her STR first

>>712694128
soiled ass

>>712693250
THE FUCK IS A KATTI IN THE FIRST PLACE

>>712694180
After I expend all the night fucking him yeah

>>712694059
>Relies on a skill proc
For what?
All it did was a 100 hit.
Without it the hit would be like 70 at worse.
>OH NOOO 76 percent hit to hit is so bad just ignore her 82 vague katti crit that doesnt count for my narrative.
>Le counterattack i can just heal
Her haters are pathetic

>>712694132
>Scrimblorat FLEES
KWAB
>>712694293
Had time to type all this out but not enough time to post her stat sheet huh?

>>712694174
You can just calculate her str while looking at ch28 enemy data and vague katties might..oh wait then you ould realise that its a normal mia and thats bad for you.

>>712694246
It slycci and katti, mani mani people

FE would be better if you could freely allocate stats every level up.

>>712694005
>Hero M/Hero F is just a difference of 1 Con
i think the only female hero you see in the gba games is echidna?? and she has a 6 con gap with dieck??

>>712694132
Oh I see. The only explanation is you activated the Roar skill. That doesn't make Mia good, that makes the Laguz unit good.

>>712694293
70% isn't consistent. Especially when she needs to then rely on an 82% proc to even kill the guy. Miafags can't read I guess...

>>712694369
>gives unit +str spd def every level
wow deep

>>712651331 (OP)
its a trend among low iq retards to call units like eliwood and lyn bad, like look at this dipshit here >>712655996 this dumbass watched some shitty youtuber and now thinks that a lord in fe7 is bad. its like the morons that skip lyns story then complain shes "bad", absolute brainrot

>>712694325
Nigga i am literally paying the game now.

smells like /feh/ in here

>>712694293
You don't understand, your units are supposed to work alone, in isolation of any other factor that could give you a strategic advantage. In other words, every unit should be judged specifically with Parity equipped and by taking one different enemy each.

>>712693173
Neither Soren nor Gatrie belong to the same class, so of course they'd be different. Now, look at the cavs in PoR where many people just ignore Makalov because no one cares about Cavalier #5 when you already have Titania/Oscar/Kieran and Astrid.

>>712657427
Lorewise its probably Celica, or Erika since she's a noobie at fighting. Honestly most the lords aside Ike/Miccy, the dragons, and Byleth kinda blend together.
Gameplay wise depends on how you see it, its either 11 Marth (aka the biggest nerfed unit in a remake) or Lyn.

Lyn can be good, But she's in the completely wrong game where everything works against her, and if you give pretty much any other unit as much nepotism as you'd give Lyn they'd honestly be better, sans the archers or some shit that comes later.

Marth even with Rapier forging is still kinda bad and even at max level and stats cant even do the job he's supposed to do (Kill Medeus). He can at least open chests/doors and walk on water so thats something.

>redditors willingly force themselves to play Maniac Mode over and over and over again to "own" the 4chuds
lol. hell of your own making.

>>712694386
>Roar skill
>All it does is to stun enemies
>Hater ignores the 82 crit and doubleing
Pathetic.

>>712694401
>Espacilly when she needs to rely on a 82 crit chance
I guess rutger is not a boss killer for you cause even as a swordmaster he wont crit reliabl right?

Reminder efficiency fags, this is your god
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A-wtJ9V0tk

>>712694454
>Can't even win an argument in good faith just like how Mia can't beat one(1) enemy by herself

If you need all this setup for Mia to kill one(1) enemy then she's objectively a load and her role could be filled incredibly easily with much less hassle by basically every other character in the game.

>>712694573
Nah, my god is Dondon.

>>712694374
>Anon pretends that Oujay and the generic hero/mercs don't exist in FE6
Every class has its own personal con value that's then further modified by the character in question.

>>712694454
Take the other unit out and you have basically the same results with a slightly lower hitrate.
You guys shill that shit cause its the only way to cope that mia is supposed to be somehow bad.

>>712694434
your shitty bait is too late
try against next thread its going to be another fe7 one

>>712694524
>playing maniac mode using mia just to own 4cucks
grim...

>>712693590
>level 19 unpromoted unit in speed focused class with the weakest weapon type
>versus
>level 3 promoted unit in def-heavy class
Those are actually kinda decent numbers considering.

People will argue over anything, holy fuck. I'm just waiting for
>doesn't hit on the 82% crit
>"clearly a skill issue, if your CPU calculated random numbers from radioactive decay instead of a pseudorandom number generator, you would see how good she is"
>"you have to rely on the true randomness of radioactive decay to make her good, clearly this means Mia sucks"

>>712694543
>Still can't argue in good faith just like his shitty character can't kill one(1) generic
Rutger is the boss killer because no other unit can do what he does with the same consistency. As you yourself have proven in this thread, even a hacked Mia with near maxed out Str is unable to kill a single enemy without babying.

>>712694576
>One rounding an maniac mode enemy is somehow bad now
>NOOOOOO THE SLIGHTLY LOWER HITRATE WITHOUT THE OTHER UNIT WOULD HAVE TOTALLY MADE HER BOTTOM TIER!!!!

>>712694642
these aren't native 4chan users, you can easily tell they're discord trannies

>>712694693
>One rounding
*If another unit helps her
*If she gets a crit
*If she's not in range of any other enemies because she's made of paper

The fact that you can't argue in good faith shows just how weak your position actually is. Just like Mia. The all caps typing makes you look like a giant shrieking infant as well.

>>712694653
Where are her panties.

>>712694675
>Hacked mia
And whats your prove?
Like i said you can just calculate the shit yourself and see its still in her str range.
But that would ruin your own narrative right?

>No ones is as good as rutger
If 82 crit is bad then rutger should be bad to for you.
Since rutger critting is the main reason why he is seen as a boss killer.

the only mode that is true and valid is lyn mode (american version)

>>712694675
Rutger is bad because he faces crit from Erik, has 70 hit against him and can't OR him without a crit.

>>712694775
>If another unit helps her
Already disproven the other unit barely did anything.
>If she gets a 82 percent crit
...And how is that supposed to be unlikely?
>Range of other enemies
Shade exists.

>>712694797
Oh excuse me. "Blessed" Mia I'm sorry.

>If 82 crit is bad then rutger should be bad to for you.
Arguing in bad faith again...

>Since rutger critting is the main reason why he is seen as a boss killer.
Incorrect. He's seen as a boss killer because he kills bosses more efficiently than any other character. This isn't hard. But of course you're arguing in bad faith and I'm just kind of running victory laps around you at this point until the thread dies.

>>712694780
She stuffed them in my mouth

>>712694820
You need clarine so rutger can be recruited.
What a bad unit who relies on other right?

>>712694797
>Tigers have 20-24 DEF
>Vague Katti has 12 MT
>best case, Mia needs 21 STR, against the weakest tiger
>still fails to kill it around 30% of the time since she needs 2 crits
>required level? 20/20 as a 1 range unit, requiring Energy Ring or BEXP favoritism to get here

>I WIN I WIN LET ME WINNN
Kek e-celeb worshipping efficiency cucks in shambles

>>712694820
>Arguing in bad faith again
>>712694871
>The other unit just had to use their once per battle Mastery skill so Mia could kill one(1) enemy consistently
>Nothing

Going to explain middle school level math to you but she needs to hit a 70% followed by an 82% followed by another 70%. Even with true hit that''s much shakier than the 82% you're pretending. Because you're a liar arguing in bad faith.

>>712694543
For one thing, it's a Vague Katti, it's not going to last you long with its 25 uses. And with a killing edge youre doing 3 (or 9) less damage per hit. Secondly, how do I know she doesn't get 2 shot by the enemy? Sure you can heal but you can't heal during enemy phase. Even with vantage, Mia isn't one shotting enemies with before she dies.
And I'm not a hater, you're just showing endgame performance without adequate backup or explanation for her performance up to that point.

why do i feel like 90% of the retarded opinions here are echoed from the rapist bald man

the retard that keeps echoing on revelations being bad but never made a real argument on why it is bad

>hahah le shovel map

>1000+ posts in FE threads today

>>712694938
>>712694989
>>712695039
Says the one who can barely string two sentences in English together.

>>712694645
>Halberdier
>def heavy

>>712694896
>Blessed mia
At average an endgame mia has 21 str...blessed would be like 1 point
That wouldnt have changed anything in this scenario retard

>82 is somehow a abd crit rate but rutge is good when he does it
Aha
>Rutger is good because he is efficent
Yeah...because he crits shit to death...but somehow that doesnt bother you because that isnt the character yourre arguin against.

Its funny how you cconstantly claim others to argue in "bad faith" while shilling that relying on 82 crit rate is somehow bad.

>>712695128
*Relying on a once per battle skill proc from another unit, a unique weapon and on top of that an 82% crit.

>>712694967
>Energy ring or favourtism
21 str is her average stat at 20 you fucking retard.
And its endgame. A unit maxing their level shouldnt be out of the world espacilly on maniac.

>>712695059
AND HERES TO ANOTHER 1000 TOMORROW

>>712695175
Oh noes, how dare he use a rare weapon! Quick, discard Marcus' Silver Lance!

>>712695073
Can you say that again without the e-celeb cock in your mouth?

give me 10 reasons why should i not be giving energy rings to a unit that always doubles
>+2 is good
>but +4???? better?????

something even more funny about maniac fags they also use the 1 BEXP trick

>>712695073
Its a common fact that people going into the grammars of otheras are in fact the people arguing in bad faith after losing an argument.
Think about it.

>>712695039
Pretty sure everyone was hating on Revelations since it came out before any ecelebs had a word on it. The strange thing is that a lot of people came around to Conquest when to my memory all three routes were getting shit on relentlessly on release outside of horny posting.

>>712695263
saar...

someone please bake
i need to see how this argument is resolved

>>712695059
more like samefag city

>>712695073
>lose argument
>b-but you lowercased!!!

>>712695193
No shit, you don't reach 20/20 in endgame PoR as a 1 range unit without BEXP favoritism. Or you can give her an Energy Ring.

>>712695175
You niggaas never say what the other guy does.
It slightly increases her hitrate but she would still be able to pull out the same results.
You guys just shout OTHER PEOPLE MASTERY SKILL to sound like you had a point.

>>712695287
The most hype Revelation ever got was when someone on /feg/ managed to play it early.

>>712695261
i give it to niime for +1 warp range

>>712695253
>>712695259
>>712695261
>>712695263
>>712695337
>>712695362
Tbh your big mistake was showing provable data that could be refuted. Now you can't really make the claim that Mia is good anymore without people linking to this thread and laughing at you getting BTFO.

>>712695330
It kind of already resolved. Even with babying, Mia can't actually kill a single enemy on a late game map by herself.

You should have stuck to vague posting.

are we really arguing that Mia is good on Maniac mode or not??? holy shit

>>712695351
If she kills a unit every turn like demosntrated in pick then yeah its pretty possible dickhead.

>>712695253
>a one of a kind s rank weapon is comparable to an early silver
really?

>>712695404
Nigga people here make fun of you because you pulled out the grammar card.
The most pathetic move a fag could have pulled out.
The fact that its not a one sided argument against me despite my hottake proves how incompetent you are at arguing.

you cannot use mia?? you WILL use the hecking paladins
im FURIOUS!!!

>>712695128
>Its funny how you cconstantly claim others to argue in "bad faith" while shilling that relying on 82 crit rate is somehow bad.
Would you rely on 82% hitrate in 1RN? Not unless you had to, and it sucks when you do.

>>712695443
Killing edges have crit as well and thee is a 3 use hammerne staff in the game.

>Y-YOU CAN'T ARGUE ANYMORE BECAUSE YOUR SCREENSHOT IS CROPPED
>LET ME FUCKIN WIIIIIIIIIIIN
AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

someone start a maniac mode relay
i will show you how good mia is

>>712695556
I would.
82 crit on a unit which DOUBLES is huge.
Youre just demonstrating what a retard you are for thinking its somehow unreliable.

>>712695626

>>712695443
Ah, is that how it works, it has to be one of a kind to count? Then Hector should discard his Wolf Beil. Enjoy grinding with Matthew because bad unit Hector can't deal with the enemies like this.

>>712695629
Let it be known that these people think strategies without 100% reliability are fine.

>>712695718
Nigga its fe.
RNG can always screw you over.
100 percent reliability is a rarity.
And 82 crit which you get twice the chance for is pretty reliable.

>>712695697
We should get rid of eliwoods rapier.
Only a bad unit relies on limited prf weapons.

>>712695626
i would but im playing fe7 atm

>>712694596
>the fallout between dondon and mekkah because mekkah wouldn't drop being dramawhore
you love to see it.

>mia literally joins with the same stats as ike
>somehow ike is gigachad and mia is cringe

>>712695697
>>712695884
you made a shitty comparison, no need to samefag about it.
>>712695921
i don't know where you've been, but people shit on ike's early game.

>>712695287
Man I ain't going to pretend to love Rev just because the new e-celeb zoomer says its good, i don't understand these contrarians

>>712695916
what do you mean
they still recorded the FE10 LTC vids together

>>712695809
Anon, stop being retarded. You should listen to what the efficiency fags describe as efficiency:
>Rig the chapter for lower enemy stats
>Reset if your plan goes poorly enough
>Make up some arbitrary standard for reliability
>Minimize turn count over anything else despite the games themselves judging you on more factors than turn count alone
... Ah, nevermind. You can ignore those retards, bro.

>>712695916
I haven't seen anything on this though I noticed Dondon's had his RD playthrough on hold. Anything good here? I've come to dislike Mekkah over the years so I'd be happy for a fallout.

>>712695984
>Everyone who makes fun of me is a samefagger

>>712695984
people claim that the best way to beat maniac mode is juggernauting with ike + oscar

Why is Mia good on Maniac mode compared to other units?

>>712694573
I watched until local luckshitter Kaze got domed by a 2% crit, that's fates babey

>>712696135
She is probaly lowtierish but far from the worst as people claim.
This game has way worse stuff.
Her spd being good enough to double most stuff makes her better then a lot of the bottom tiers.

While we're at it, let's leave Durandal in the convoy. Rutger shouldn't need it to kill stuff. Also, let's ignore Rutger's crit, clearly that doesn't matter. Ah, let's also never rescue him around, no relying on other units. No using terrain or status staves either, and no kills are to be given to him because that's favouritism.
Rutger is pretty bad, I've concluded.

>>712694573
Nigger can't even beat Conquest Lunatic without coaching, what a bitch lmao

>>712695351
>you don't reach 20/20 in endgame PoR
Yes you do. You hardly get any BEXP on Maniac mode anyway. I gave most of mine to Elincia. By the time I reached the credits I had 19 units at 20/20, one at 20/17 and Sothe at 20. PoR's exp pool is extremely deep.

>>712695916
are you gonna say what happened

>>712696057
>everyone
nice try retard

>>712695921
woman are cringe

>>712696303
Lets not forget that this game gives more chip exp as well.

>>712696303
>PoR's EXP pool is extremely deep
Maybe I'm doing something wrong but even on Hard I'll get maybe 4 units to 20/20. Ike, Titania (favouritism,) Astrid and then another longrunning MVP like Oscar, Boyd or Marcia.

>Um acktually you are bad at the game if you do not use my approved units who supposedly make the game easier and if you do not play the game as little as possible
Why do people listen to metafags, again?

>>712696210
Even if she doubles is she really doing that good of damage with her low strength? Yes you can use forges and then she can double with them but I don't see how that's worth it on her compared to so many other units. Plus being sword locked + foot locked FE9 is pretty aids, especially when you already have a foot locked sword locked shitter force deployed in every map anyways. What is she really doing?

>>712696540
They can't beat any FE without watching tier list videos first.

>>712696570
Many other units struggle to double.
Granted titania and your bexp fucked marcia are better contenders but i made a case to be an upper lowtier or maybe lowmid AT best not something really good.

>>712696540
>>712696673
i love arguing against strawmen

Oh no bros...

i watched a youtuber play path of radiance maniac mode
all my opinions come from his playtrough

>>712696786
NOOOOOOO

The better question is why Mia over someone else who already comes out the box as good, in terms of efficiency.

>>712696797
Does his channel name begin with M?

>>712696894
yeah, he is a genius, really smart and always has intelligent takes!!

>>712696786
>>712696870

>>712696875
She is the fastest unit thus the ebst one to double crows in ch12 and 13 with a laguz slayer.

>>712696705
Even if they struggle to double they probably deal comparable damage with a steel axe or lance, something Mia can't use.

Even if Mia with enough investment can reach a point where she can double a lot of enemies I don't see how she isn't bottom 5. Better than absolute shitters like Rolf or Largo I guess, but she provides very little actual utility and arguably makes the game harder by giving her investment compared to other, better units.

The better question is why play the same game over and over with the exact same units and strategies while pretending that makes you good at the game.

>>712697051
Dunno, I've only played most of them about half a dozen times over a couple decades because I like revisiting them every now and then.

>>712696870
>>712696984
Based crackship

>>712697051
because it's not the same strategies. sometimes you get better and finish the game faster.

>>712696786
>>712696870
>wouldn't fuck mia and his sister