>The world isn't bigger than it has to be
>Everywhere you go, it feels like progression
>It ends while every moment still feels fresh
>Takes no more than 25 hours to see everything.
Kino. I wish more games would take note.

You're right but you'll get called an "OoTsnoy" (which is a contradiction in terms lol)

best game ever, I'll tell you what

>>712729863 (OP)
I know there is one being worked on, not at Nintendo
and it's about time too, we haven't had this sort of gold standart of item progression based action adventure game since basically TP, and even that one was a weaker entry

>"adult link"
>is actually in his late teens, 17 at max

>>712730379
16 is biologically an adult. In Japan, 16 is considered an adult. Tell me you're an amerigoy without telling me you're an amerigoy

Why can't you just let the broccoli hair generation have their NuZelda slop?

>>712730546
because I want my ZeldaKino back

OOT stands out because every mainline Zelda after OOT started adding tedious filler in-between dungeons which destroys replay value.

Then you have Breath of the Wild which is a glorified digital walking sim

>>712729863 (OP)
Also when you get through a playthrough you can play a randomizer run to freshen up the gameplay again.

>>712729863 (OP)
>The world isn't bigger than it has to be
Hyrule field is very empty. And grottos and skulltulas were a proto shrine/korok seeds.

>>712730546
When they're 25 they won't be able to go back to BotW and claim it's "still just as good" because that's when they realize they were playing a game for kids all along, and the enjoyment of "omg so FUN gameplay" is entirely missing.
Meanwhile, I'll replay OoT any year and it still gives me the same sense of awe every time, not because any particular dungeon is just "amazing level-design" or or the combat, but because the built up experience after seeing the childhood portion of the game, and reliving the adult stuff, and vibing with its atmosphere gets me every time.
And then at the end with Ganondorf in the staircase that keeps going and the organ music increases is such a culmination.

OoT also has something later Zeldas don't, but particular games starting with TP and since: It has great prose. Localization seems a bit rough, but you can tell it's a fine literal translation of great prose in the source material. Each Adult dungeon has Sheik appear and tell a poem related to the dungeon's theme, like
>"Young minds turned to noble ambition"
>"Young love turned to deep affection"
Every "temple" is about a topic, with Forest Temple being about remembering one's childhood, and Water Temple being about reflecting on your life where it's gotten to.
The game is about how it feels to go from being a child to becoming an adult, and Ganondorf is the ultimate archetypal evil in that constellation. He is Donald Trump, Putin or Kim Jong Un, a man who decided to take as much as he can at the expense of everything around himself. But you/Link have the memories of those childlike wonders, and you oppose casting it away, so Link becomes the definition of a "Good man" and Ganon is a "bad man".

I just find it deeper than most Zeldas in this respect. Wind Waker is a close second for me, then Majora's Mask, but honestly every other Zelda than those 3 are kind of mid or downright bad when it comes to narrative. BotW and TotK are some of the worst.

>>712731569
Hyrule Field is empty on purpose. it's the buffer between the game's actual "content" and it isn't really that big. Just big enough to make you go "wow look how far away that is" in terms of N64 graphics at the time.

>>712731719
>Ganondorf is the ultimate archetypal evil in that constellation. He is Donald Trump
top kek
you had me going for a minute

>>712732367
For real though... I just replayed the part where Zelda throw the Ocarina and Ganondorf encounters kid Link. And it reminds me of what's happening in the united states. I'm not even FUCKING joking, BRO!

When you go to the farm and Ingo has kicked out his saint of a boss, and taken over, Malon remarks that "he's not really evil, but he might've been tempted". In that sense he is an incel.

>>712729863 (OP)
>The world isn't bigger than it has to be

What world? There is no world. It's small rooms with a sky box jpeg connected by corridors.

>>712732549
So true bro when Ganondorf destroys his own castle at the end of the game I couldn't help but be reminded of 9/11

>>712731719
>When they're 25 they won't be able to go back to BotW and claim it's "still just as good"

I'm replaying BotW on my Switch 2, almost a decade later, and it is just as good.

>>712729863 (OP)
Stealth Running Shine thread

>>712732917
Yeah but it wasn't that good to start with. I've played through it thrice, and it's like an 8/10 at best. I really enjoy the playability of BotW, and I love its lush grassy fields and serene mood, but in the end I just don't take that much away from them. It feels like a game I just play to relax, and that's okay, but it also means it never really becomes "Masterpiece" tier for me, especially not when the gameification of its world is just Shrines & Korok Seeds. 2 endlessly repetitive activities that look and feel the same way throughout an entire travelogue. It severely diminishes the way I feel about this or TotK, that anywhere you go you just know there's yet another Shrine appearing at the end of it.

Dungeons in pre-BotW titles were exactly exciting because it's always like "I don't know what Nintendo has done for the next dungeon, ooo what could it be this time?" and each game had some overlapping (forest temple for example) but every time it was unique and a "take" on a dungeon concept. It was never literally the same rinse and repeat like the Shrines are. Sometimes it wound up feeling like a "Greatest Hits" CD for me. Just really meh in the end.

>>712733301
When I played OoT as a kid, I pretended I was actually playing BotW.

>>712733301
>every time it was unique and a "take" on a dungeon concept
This. The dungeons were the one part of Zelda that only got better and better, peaking with TP. I didn't play SS because fuck waggle. But to see them give up on dungeons and do these lame 1-room shrines that just have a basic physics puzzle and the same bland Laputa magitech aesthetic every time was a deal breaker for me. BOTW is not Zelda.

>>712730490
>In Japan, 16 is considered an adult.
can't vote or drink or drive though, but yeah

>>712730635
>OOT stands out because every mainline Zelda after OOT started adding tedious filler in-between dungeons which destroys replay value.
we call it "story" here, it's not bad to flesh out the world a bit. The adult timeline "suffers" a bit from not having much to explore if you were vigilant during the parts of the game in hwich you play as kid Link.

>>712733915
>I didn't play SS because fuck waggle.
The dungeons themselves are okay, but Fi (in the Wii version) is a nag who ruins the pacing and some puzzles, and for some reason they decided that even Small Key chests should also have the dramatic chest opening cutscene. The surrounding game, however, is fucking atrocious.

>>712730243
Which one?

>>712734067
The one that suffers most from the filler between dungeons is skyward sword, by far, I get the approach of making the overworld a dungeon of sorts but the executions leaves a lot to be desired, it often feels like it drags on endlessly
>>712733915
You can emulate it or play it on switch without waggle

>>712733301
Playing BotW/TotK
>"what's over that hill"
>find a cave entrance
>suddenly find myself on a rocket-propelled minecart
>I'm racing through an underground lava cavern on a rollercoaster
>suddenly find myself attacked by enemies on their rocket-propelled minekarts
>Have to shoot them all with arrows while also shooting switches to change tracks and jumping over gaps
>at the find end I find the entrance to a subterranean multi-floored, multi-roomed mini dungeon

Playing OoT
>"what's over that hill?"
>"oh.... I can't go over there. There is no hill. It's just jpeg of a hill on a wall. I'm actually in a room and there is no world. Guess I should go to the next check point...."

>>712731719
>It has great prose.
It's childishly simple for the most part, what are you talking about?

>>712734719
>>The one that suffers most from the filler between dungeons is skyward sword
that entire game felt like filler to me, I can't say I liked it that much....

worst boss in the series coming through!

>>712734476
i don't know the name yet, but as far as I know there should be some footage and information coming out before the end of the year

>>712734719
I played SSHD a couple years ago and I remember thinking at first that it wasn't as bad as I remembered. Then about halfway in I started to realize, oh yeah, it IS as bad as I remembered (and that was with HD making more of Fi's text optional; the sheer amount of busywork to fill out the runtime was fucking ludicrous.

>>712734807
It is true that there are several sections that feel deliberately designed to waste your time, like that one mine cart section in the desert you complete only for there to be nothing at the end, or that one time you're supposed to drop near eldin volcano but it won't let you because...? and instead it makes you recover all your items before you can progress. That section in isolation isn't a problem, it's how it's shoehorned in a way that grinds the game's pacing to a halt.

>>712734747
nta but using complexity as main qualifier for quality is disgusting and a surefire sign of retarded midwittery

also the german script is better than the english one, as an aside
inb4
>muh PAL
you can play NTSC OoT in various EU languages

>>712729863 (OP)
I wish Majora's Mask had even the fraction of the perfect pacing that OoT did.

>>712734951
it's a close race between your pic related and the tentacle monster from the same game

goddammit SS was so brutally wack in so many ways. we all should have seen that it was the beginning of the end

Tears of the Schwingdom, telling the story of the Imprisoning War four times from the four sages in the exact same way, is so fucking stupid and really shows how far Zelda's writing has fallen. They literally don't care any more.
Echoes of Wisdom had better writing than that shit.

>>712735318
good flow and pacing is something that increasingly has become worse over all media in the last 20 years, but in video games especially

>>712735535
echoes of wisdom is the first good non-remake/reimagining game in the series in about 20 years

>>712735414
>nta but using complexity as main qualifier for quality is disgusting and a surefire sign of retarded midwittery
It's also signs of being a halfwit when you praise a simplistic, not simple (there is a difference), story like OOT's that much.

>>712734724
playing BOTW/TOTK
>what's over that hill
>oh, it's useless garbage I'll never need because the game is designed as non-linear slop that doesn't care about where you go first
>ignore the rocket carts, dungeon and filler enemies because none of them will give a meaningful reward

ftfy

>>712735723
>>712735535
Echoes of Wisdom is just as bad. Trying to make a super ultimate evil even worse than Ganon and Demise, only for him to die pathetically in a trivial boss battle is horrific storytelling. The fight should've been way harder, but Null is a complete joke.

>>712729863 (OP)
>unironically calling Zelda "slop"
neck yourself faggot

>>712735535
I really enjoyed TotK's narrative. It's rare to see a simple old fashioned love story between two white heterosexual characters.

TotK is a tale about recovering from tragedy. Link fails to save Zelda in the beginning. He is hurting from the trauma. He is haunted by Zelda's ghost everywhere he goes.
Every shrine Link beats, every heart container he gets, it expunges a little bit of the pain from him. He heals.
In the final redemptive dive, he has a chance to save Zelda where he failed before.
It's so fucking satisfying and amazingly kino I don't know how Nintendo will ever top it.

>>712736018
both BOTW and specially TOTK are the very definition of slop
>empty world
>copy & pasted content
>"make your own fun" approach
>climb towers to uncover more of the map
it's shit

>>712735905
I personally like Null better than Demise, a force of nature like Null is believable when we have had literal gods in the setting for decades now, while all Demise did was take agency away from Ganon/Ganondorf and retroactively ruining the lore and characters from previous entries.

>>712736085
Stop spamming.

>>712736231
>Null is a force of Nature
>dies to someone swinging their sword at him a few times, doesn't even have to be the master sword

lol

>>712733256
glad i'm not the only one primed to remember that fag

>>712736323
Scout is a force 'a nature and dies by some measly Demoknight sword swings. Your point?

>>712736398
>Null, an all powerful ancient force that's existed since time immemorial, has the durability of some guy from Boston that doesn't know how to tie his own shoes

>>712736365
His OoT review is on par with if not better than his YIIK one, and it's a shame it doesn't get as much love.

>>712733774
>Accidentally got the kangaroo my first playthrough
>Never got him again

>>712736085
I don't dislike TotK's narrative as much as a lot of people, I know it contradicts previous entries, but when you keep in mind the timeline split at the end of Skyward Sword you can relegate both BotW and TotK to a separate timeline from the rest of the series and suddenly everything makes a lot more sense

>>712736692
>I know it contradicts previous entries
as if that's something new in the zelda series

>>712736692
I hate it, whether it contradicts or not. It's filled with obnoxious, worthless NPCs that make me wish Ganondorf genocided them all.

>>712736880
sounds like a you problem for being racist

>>712736692
I've always looked upon Zelda as being one story, retold again and again. That's its called the LEGEND of Zelda. Like a real legend passed down, the story gets changed around but certain recurring characters, places, names and motifs always pop up.

>>712736905
Maybe Nintendo should learn how to write better stories.

>>712735604
Gunn movies are something that sticks out to me in particular, both his suicide squad and guardians 3 have atrocious pacing, as for other movies, wicked drags on endlessly, in sonic 3 things feel like they just happen because the plot demands they happen and thunderbolts felt like going through the motions, like it was going through played out plot beats like going through a checklist so the climax didn't feel earned

>>712736972
>Maybe Nintendo should learn how to write better stories

I would rather they stick to making video games k thx.

>>712737096
Considering the low quality of the past 3 Zelda games, they need to work on that too.

>>712732738
But enough about twilight princess

>>712729863 (OP)
The majority preferring open world and breakable weapons makes me not wanna give a shit about this series anymore. Tired of being told I was always wrong about enjoying something I know was always good and way better, it's why most prefer replaying OoT more than the new shit.

And now we can't even get a normal 2D Zelda anymore because Aonuma is huffing the fermented plastic too hard these days, Echoes of Wisdom is a terrible game.

>>712735759
prose =/= story

>>712735905
>is horrific storytelling
if only we were talking about a videoGAME and are lamenting how a series has fallen game design wise

>>712736926
nta but that's how I look at it. the story is just a narrative framework that allows the gameplay to happen.

when it comes to narrative I care more about the moments in between and memorable characters also

>>712737270
>when it comes to narrative I care more about the moments in between and memorable characters also
That's the problem with modern Zelda.It doesn't have this either. There isn't a single worthwhile or memorable character, they're all legitimately terrible, and the nature of the open world means that you'll never have memorable moments since theyre all skippable and thus not important.

>>712729863 (OP)
>The world isn't bigger than it has to be
This is what makes OoT for me. Could it use some more? Maybe. Does it need more? Not really. There are some spots where you could add some stuff, but it would have to be optional stuff you could play around in after the main game. I'm sick of the 'filler' in games too, and copypasting a bunch of camps all over BotW/TotK isn't the way to go.

>>712732738
this normiecattle can't rotate an apple in his mind

>>712737007
many such cases . it's getting real tiresome

>>712731719
>"OoT also has something later Zeldas don't, but particular games starting with TP and since"
That's when Aonuma fully took over and both Miyamoto and Koizumi became less involved, Zelda was at its best when both Miyamoto and Koizumi were heavily involved, they both got the essence and soul in the franchise and a big part of the charm was lost when they were replaced by Aonuma and Fujibayashi

>>712737375
yeah no, i fully agree

>>712737390
filler in games and in general I suppose, needs to be meaningful.

there's a reason why MM or something like Super Metroid feels more alive and important in its entirety, there is backtracking and few optional areas and they are all useful and cool to visit and complete. at the very least an upgrade of some kind is waiting, aside from interesting visuals and vibes.
ash lake from dark souls 1 comes to mind here too

>>712737221
eh reh

>>712737153
>Considering the low quality of the past 3 Zelda games, they need to work on that too.

Of the last three mainline Zelda games, two were made in-house at Nintendo.

And those two, are in the Top 5 most acclaimed video games of the past 25 years.

Made cry more about that. I'll eagerly awaiting the next Zelda masterpiece k thx.

>>712737856
>And those two, are in the Top 5 most acclaimed video games of the past 25 years.
and why should I care about the normgroid masses?

>>712737375
All modern zelda characters are good for is coombait, I only hope Age of Imprisonment doesn't go full retard with the story like AoC did

>>712737617
Yeah, Majora's Mask is smaller in comparison but each day offers something unique depending on what you do or don't do even. I would have loved to see that applied to a dungeon where depending on the day you entered it, it would have a different layout, gimmick, etc.

boomerbros everything is openworld ubisoft crap that takes 1000 hours to complete now... how can we cope?

>>712729863 (OP)
It's good. But Goemon 64 is better.

>>712738201
I'm making my own linear action-adventure game with combat, exploration, puzzles, a small hub and some exploration for optional collectibles that do actually matter

>>712738201
Wait for Indigo, I only wish I knew how to patch time lost and sand of time to run on a Wii

>>712732738
By that logic, no game has a world. Even open worlds are just "bigger rooms with a sky box".

it was good back then, for kids and teenagers. Nowadays? not so interesting imo, especially not for adults

>>712738349
>Indigo
Pass, too much chunni/anime shit and that stuff clashes with OoT hard.

I don't think BOTW and TOTK are bad at all, and I do think kids years from now will look back in nostalgia at them, even me, as I played them while I was going through some tough times. However I do think Zelda as a franchise is becoming more focused towards younger children, and that's what bothers most people. Because compared to Mario, Zelda games had more of an "elite" status in that they would bust out the orchestras to play more serious, classical-romantic inspired music, the stories were a little more mature that dealt with some heavy themes, and it wasn't afraid to dip into the horror aspect. But with nu Zelda it is focused on creating an open world gameplay loop with little tasks every 10 minutes as opposed to the slow burn method of the old Zeldas where the story would need to be progressed in order get a new item or hear a pleasant melody. Nu Zelda lacks personality because it seems as if Nintendo doesn't think people care about a hand tailored, thematically unique story. Even if the gameplay was very similar, other games were different in their themes, OoT about growing up, Majoras Mask about death, TP about light and dark etc. And what's crazy about saying that is that obviously BOTW had a story to it, but it wasn't focused on, it was just there to explain the world and then moved aside to let the players have their fun. The story about Link healing after a major trauma, coupled with Zelda learning to thrive only after the castle and the kingdom are destroyed are solid and good, but underutilized. Most of the story is seen through flashbacks. There is no "intimate" moments in nu Zelda. What I mean by that is remember in Wind Waker when Makar plays the violin with the ancient Kokiri? It was like 20 seconds of music but it's one of the scenes that is stuck in my head and playing through the whole game is worth it just to get to that part, because the buildup and its relevance to the story lead to lead to great catharsis. Nu Zelda needs more of that.

>>712737997
Why should anyone care about your shit taste. Cry more on 4chan.

>>712739412
You're the one crying, since you need to constantly flaunt sales like an unpaid marketer.

>>712739770
I never mentioned sales once. Are you ok?

>>712739806
Go on and post your metacritic scores. It's the next part of your bot script.

>>712739959
Not a single post of those is mine. But he does have a point.

>>712740226
You're not even trying, Arthur.

OOT REHASHES BAD
UBISLOP ZELDA REHASHES GOOD

>>712729863 (OP)
>The world isn't bigger than it has to be
This is important aspect of the core Zelda games given what they focus on.They're big enough that they're not trivial to completely and systematically explore, but that the same time their important parts are compact enough that you're encourages to explore them throughout the game and uncover new aspects oft hem. You can see this especially well with the original LoZ given how it expects you to find a certain number of secrets.

A given Zelda game may have areas that are even arbitrarily large (which is why 'empty' overworld sections are actually OK and ever preferable over hundreds of small, insignificant things spotting the land), but it's important that the game at least signals to the player what the interesting and engaging parts are so that engaging in the deeper aspects of the game is emphasized over doing random things and just moving on.

BotW *doens't* lack actual depth, but it is poor at signalling where this depth lies and and encouraging you to explore it, and even falsely implies certain things if you happen to not go out of your way to check otherwise.

>>712729863 (OP)
I think OOT is truly one of the best games of all time and I'm not a religious basedtendo fan

>>712729863 (OP)
>another old jaded incel whining about his boomer slop
You lost.

Why is that relevant. You have the time to play every single Zelda title.

>>712743941

>>712738340
do you post in the gamedev threads or anywhere where I can see your progress?

>>712729863 (OP)
fuck no, this is peak

>>712744672
Based. BotW/TotK will take some beating.

>>712744672
assassin's creed for kids, bravo aonuma

>>712744672
peak slop

>>712738473
True

>>712744796
red pilled
>>712744862
it has nothing in common with AC
>>712744863
if you want slop you need to look through that toon link era

>>712744672
I hope they one day make a Zelda game the same size but actually bother to fill it with things to do

>>712729863 (OP)
Zelda never excelled at anything in particular. Except for that one fluke, Majora's Mask, where they accidentally crafted a story with real heart. But other than that, Zelda has been entirely C and B grade in every category. This is fine when you're still new to gaming. But when your tastes have matured, you should have moved on to better things.

I say all that to say this: The debate between old and new Zelda, is a debate between two un-excellent things. It's not really worth having a conversation about. But rather, one should consider how to make Zelda excellent. Which is not to just be a conservatard, who returns back to the past. Nor is it to be a blind progressive who overlooks the flaws of the new shiny thing.

>>712745019
>actually bother to fill it with things to do
far right reactionary garbage

>>712745019
the key to success will be taking Breath of the Wild, and adding in rings & kinstones

>>712745236
I love Witcher 3 as well, but with Nintendo they actually innovate game mechanics in this industry. Story matters so very little when it comes to a video game. If you were more mature you would understand that.

>>712745604
>Story matters so very little when it comes to a video game.
This. It's why I hate trash like Xenoblade. I despise anytime a game shoves story in my face, expecting me to care.

>>712745604
I agree gameplay matters more than story, but I have to admit many of the older Zeldas are cherished for their story, characters, and music. As we saw with botw/tears it's praised for its open world aspects but I also feel it lacked some of the Zelda magic that made the old games great. It's probably nostalgia sure, but I dont think it can be completely dismissed as that.

>>712729863 (OP)
Ocarina of Time is DEFINITELY the Jimi Hendrix Experience of 3D gaming

>>712745995
I can't cherish old Zelda stories, they just don't resonate with anything I relate to. I'm not sure what you mean by Zelda magic, but if I were to guess you mean some metroidvania element of using acquired abilities to unlock traversal of the overworld. If that's the magic, yeah clearly the locking and unlocking is gone, it's open world. You exit the great plateau and you are free to explore. If you care about exploration, again, that there is peak.

I love Kass!

>>712745604
>>712745881
>>712745995
Why are you guys talking about the story? Were you really so distracted by the mention of the story in Majora's Mask? You read that, and thought I was saying Zelda needs a better story to be fixed? If so, you missed the point entirely.

>>712745236
in every aspect, really? you must not be thinking about level design and overall game design at all with that shit.

retarded storyfags get out of my hobby
you don't even understand what a videogame is

>>712746730
We talked past you, because it was retarded to say everyone is arguing about unexcellent things. The implication is that you are the arbiter of quality and are off playing superior works.

>>712729863 (OP)
We know. We don't need threads constantly proclaiming it. BotW fatigue goes both ways. Talk about OoT.

>>712730490
That's a universal thing, I don't know why your retarded ass is assuming that the US isn't the same way.

>>712746992
I'm tired of OoT. I'm tired of the randomizers. Tired of the romhacks. Tired of the retrospectives. Tired of the cut and beta content. I just want news of the next upcoming Zelda, yesterday.

>>712733774
Bot.

>>712747091
I can make due with randomizers and do for a long while so I'm content with those and the rom hacks on the way. Anything post TP isn't 3D Zelda.

BotW and TotK look great but the fighting is kind of trash and the world is empty.
I explored everything and it all felt hollow.
What I really wanted to see was some subrosia stuff in the underground or some awesome world in the sky, maybe an ancient castle town or something of value. The robot stuff was boring and the furry god stuff was a bit cringe.
There were little quests here and there that had some soul but it just doesnt make up for the world being empty as heck.
Majora's Mask should be the groundwork for their next game.

>>712747265
based and true
even WW and TP are stretching my patience. these games have so much pacing content, they are dreadful to replay. TP moreso.

I'm working on my own not-OoT and otherwise I have Indigo to look forward to. Don't know why people love to shit on it

>>712746919
You talked passed me, because your comprehension skills are through the floor. You read "story" and started babbling about story.

>The implication is that you are the arbiter of quality and are off playing superior works.
Why yes, I am. But also, not exactly. Have Cs and Bs get degrees. If you read between the lines: Saying Zelda is C and B grade across all categories, is also to say that it doesn't lack in any category either. To have a solid product that does adequately across the board, is in of itself an appreciable thing. However, it doesn't make Zelda capable of crafting any truly exceptional experiences.
Does any Zelda boast exceptional combat? I can name 10 games that do combat better.
Does any Zelda boast exceptional puzzles? I can name 10 games that do puzzles better.
Does any Zelda boast exceptional exploration? I can name 10 games that do exploration better.

Those games might lack in their own different ways. But you can overlook what they lack, in order to get the excellent experience that they provide.
Zelda is such a blue-balling franchise. Especially after you have more gaming experience. Because when you're new to gaming, you don't know what you're missing. Zelda is the world to you. But when you branch out and play other games, then you start to see how Zelda falls short of excellence in just about every way.

I'll say this though. The one thing Zelda does actually excel at, is the music.

>>712746730
I wasn't even replying to you, but it's nonsense to think that the story hasn't had an effect on why people enjoy it. Zelda is at its best when the story is integrated into the gameplay like with OoT and TP. When link finds the Ocarina that Zelda throws, not only is it the way to teleport and solve puzzles, but it has ties into the story, so it gives everything a purpose, it makes the world feel more real. Same with dungeons, not only are they all themed differently for gameplay variety, but they all have lore that ties into hyrules history. So I am not saying Zelda needs a better story, but better integration with gameplay because as it stands nu Zelda just has link doing random tasks because thats what we expect a Zelda game to look like, not what the story promotes. It promotes the idea of adventure, and doesnt do much to involve the player like the old ones did

>>712747587
anything that makes the world feel alive or provided incentive to interact with any part of it would be nice.

ironically the games where it's one huge cohesive world with "organic" happenings all over feels the most unreal, disjointed and lifeless of all the zelda games.

at some point it really was just fromsoft carrying the zelda torch by basically reimagining Zelda 1 with Dark Souls, while getting rid of item gated progression and focusing on combat and navigation instead

>>712747851
>getting rid of item gated progression
no one asked for this

>>712734951
80% of the bosses of LA are the worst bosses in the game

>>712747587
yeah its weird how botw specifically jerked off link saying he's a sword savant and then both games had about three different attacks with each weapon. The twilight princess hidden skills would have been perfect to put in

>>712747598
>Don't know why people love to shit on it
It's popular fan content, that's why. This shithole is insanely fucking petty.

>>712745019
>I hope they one day make a Zelda game the same size but actually bother to fill it with things to do

It already exists.

>>712747785
In Tears of the Kingdom, they integrated the story in a real clever way. Making the stories points embedded into the land itself, so the player had reason to explore far and wide to discover the whole story. But the lot of you shit on it. Started crying "It all happened in the past, so I don't care". Or "why do I have to travel to find them? It's bloat."

The ocarina of time(the actual object) actually has almost no story significance. Where does it come from? Why does Zelda have it? How did she know you needed it? If your regular Ocarina can already sing magical melodies, then why do you need a special ocarina to sing magical melodies?
When you really get right down to it: it was a plot contrivance. They designed the game to be split in half. And they needed an excuse as to why you were locked out of one half for the beginning of the game. So they made a key in the form of an ocarina. And then arbitrarily gave you the key when they felt it was time for you to gain access.

>>712748545
No I said that the gimmick of the story all happening forever ago and you discovering it in disjointed bits was only acceptable once and even then was clearly a concession to fit story into the open world format.

>>712748180
Retarded take.

BotW has 100x the amount of combat options/weapons/engagement strategies without it ever becoming a bloated mess of button inputs and overshadowing the core gameplay.

Thankfully you'll never make a game.

>>712748663
>I said that the gimmick of the story all happening forever ago and you discovering it in disjointed bits was only acceptable once
So you made up a completely arbitrary rule then.

>>712748764
It's not arbitrary to say that things usually have a fixed beginning, middle, and end for a reason.

>>712747265
I legit don't get the appeal of randomizers

>>712729863 (OP)
Ocarina of Time > A Link to the Past > Majora's Mask > Twilight Princess > Minish Cap > Link's Awakening > Adventure of Link > Oracle of Ages / Seasons > Wind Waker > ALBW > Skyward Sword > BOTW > TOTK

>>712747265
I prefer TP a lot, but it's not like I replay these games in any length of time. Randomizers of OoT on a routine basis sounds like my version of hell.

>>712747727
>your comprehension skills are through the floor
>Why yes, I am.
stopped reading

>>712748876
Conservatard opinion detected. Saying things are typically one way, doesn't disprove the validity of the other way.

>>712743941
>Four swords and Tri-force
ouch, no wonder the four colored Links have been retired

I'm planning on getting a switch 2 soon to replay the zelda games, I hope that the new versions end up giving us some more meat instead of just better graphics and and fps.
Don't spoil me please I want to find out for myself.

>>712748545
>desu it doesnt matter where Zelda got the ocarina from, considering the other fantastical items like the lens of truth it makes perfect sense within the logic of the world she probably got it from somewhere in the castle
>your last point about plot contrivance. That is literally good game design. They had the problem of needing to limit the open world in the first half to let the story progress and then gave you the key to access the rest ALL WHILE giving us new characters and raising the stakes of the world, giving the players more reasons to be invested. I literally dont know how this is an issue.

>>712749252
Anon...

>>712749198
Those two statements aren't related. I chastised his reading comprehension for thinking I was focused on story.

>>712749084
>Randomizers of OoT on a routine basis sounds like my version of hell.
I personally enjoy them but I don't play OoT on a casual level.

>>712747785
I think the story tied to progression is a rather unremarkable concession the series made. I've never viewed it as anything more than a borderline obligation, that actively makes replaying them a chore. I think a game should begin with a cutscene, and then let you play for hours with no dialogue no more cutscenes, ect. Only at the end should there be some other cutscene followed by credits. Zelda is at its best when the plot moves out of the way and lets you through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGq5AfuYAIo

>>712747727
> Especially after you have more gaming experience.
You keep alluding to this, but you never say what you mean or give any specific. I've played enough great games to see that Nintendo are frankly the best and Zelda is the peak of their output, with no existing substitutes, and it doesn't come down to fanboyism or lack of experience, there just isn't anyone else who reaches the same peaks of gaming.

>Does any Zelda boast exceptional combat? I can name 10 games that do combat better.
I'll grant you that there are, but at worst individual Zelda games either have solid and threatening enemies, despite admittedly primitive combat (like LoZ), or solid and refined combat mechanics but weak enemies (like OoT). AoL and even BotW have fantastically executed combat such that there isn't much that outright tops either at what they do. I'm happy to hear you bring up things like Kingdom Hearts, but there aren't that many things with outright superior combat, and especially so when it comes to open ended adventure games.

>Does any Zelda boast exceptional puzzles? I can name 10 games that do puzzles better.
>Does any Zelda boast exceptional exploration? I can name 10 games that do exploration better.
Here's where I diverge though. I will outright claim that Zelda has THE BEST exploration and the best puzzles in any game series, and I will happily defend this. I genuinely don't even find games like La Mulana to be as satisfying to explore or solve as I do the best Zelda games, which I find to be exceptionally clever and interesting to think about on numerous different levels.

I don't doubt you can find individual, high quality examples of these things in other game series, but Zelda is so uniquely expressive it hits the peak of the medium.

>>712748509
based and red pilled

>>712735486
The only reason I can enjoy SS today is because they released botw.
If they release a new not botw 3D zelda and Hylia is in it I will curse SS even more.

>>712734724
>Playing BotW/TotK
>>"what's over that hill"
>1/1000 korok turds have been deposited into your account

>>712748545
>When you really get right down to it: it was a plot contrivance.
spot on, this is what I mean when I say Zelda is better when it gets out of your way, it shouldn't feature these contrivances, no good reason for them.

>>712748726
>fight bokoblin
>swing left, swing right, spin with sword.
>poke once, poke twice, poke harder with spear
>swing harder, or spin with great sword
>maybe jump attack
>or dodge once and do a flurry strike
>repeat ad nauseam
yeah great combat bro, totally better than link doing a badass helm splitter or mortal draw

>>712749580
SS is actually a great game if you hotkey sword swings and toggle the camera.

>>712749586
fucking kek

>>712736623
i actually enjoy all of his reviews. I can't really recommend them as genuine reviews for someone that wants an objective view, but the jokes are very funny to me. It also helps that even though he isn't in-depth as, say, matthewmatosis, he manages to actually nail things. I remember playing OoT and thinking it was just "ok", and seeing it till the end with him talking about how people making a huge deal of the game actually make the experience for a new player worse since their expectations are set way too high really made me feel vindicated.

>>712749586
and this is bad because OoT will have a chest with 20 rupees instead?

>>712729863 (OP)
>I got bullied as a child: the game
>puzzles are literally about pressing buttons with the item that you press buttons with
>retarded combat about waiting your turn like preschool
>constant fetch questing and backtracking in a completely inorganic, linear fashion for padding
>the first instance of "yellow paint" is all over the game, even well into the second half
>npcs constantly babysit you
>story literally fucks up the lore from just a single game previous
>it took 7 years to make this slop
its okay when oot does it, right fellow fanboys?

>>712749809
>people making a huge deal of the game actually make the experience for a new player worse since their expectations are set way too high
I can definitely see how this would be a problem. I played the game with no expectations about it and knowing barely anything. It's just something that really invites and sates your curiosity when you play it naturally at will. I can't imagine playing it to "get through the game that's supposed to be the best" or forcing yourself through it expecting it to throw amazing shit at you though frankly, that IS what it feels like when I play it

>>712749312
>it doesnt matter where Zelda got the ocarina from
If the item is deserving enough to be put on title, then yes, it does matter.

>considering the other fantastical items like the lens of truth it makes perfect sense within the logic of the world
The lens of truth is shown to be a Shiekah relic. The Sheikah made it. When you consider the larger lore of the Shiekah, the usage of the lens of truth makes even more sense. I can explain it all if you're not familiar.

>They had the problem of needing to limit the open world in the first half to let the story progress
So the STORY is driving the game along, and you don't see a problem with that?

>ALL WHILE giving us new characters and raising the stakes
The ocarina of time was not a necessary object in order to do that. You already needed 3 mc guffins to open the door. Why did you need another ocarina to open it? I understand wanting some kind of progression in your game. But the progression was that you beat 3 of the dungeons, which then allows you to open the door.

>>712732061
>literally saying "its okay when oot does it"
>ignoring the fact that the skultulas are objectively worse than the koroks because they rely on day/night cycles, backtracking, and rewards scale utility all the way to 100%.

>>712729863 (OP)
Zelda?

>>712749586
True

>>712749967
>20 rupees
This isn't MM or TP.

>>712732917
I'm having a blast with BotW on my Switch 2, too

>>712732061
and that purpose was that N64 was very meek

>>712750495
>This isn't MM
if only you knew how bad things really were (OoT)

>>712750434
>ignoring the fact that the skultulas are objectively worse than the koroks because they rely on day/night cycles, backtracking
That's what makes them good. They give you incentive to re-explore the world in different ways an experience things from other perspectives, as opposed to things you pick up and move on from. They remain the best executed collection quest in the series.

>>712749639
>>712748545
I don't understand are you guys playing these games and critiquing them like novels or cinema? I mean who actually cares about plot contrivance, it works for the game, I've literally never seen anyone care so much why Zelda is written poorly. I view these games like I view old Disney movies, any little quirks or issues with writing and characters is ok because you can tell they were made just to be enjoyed. You talk as if you cant understand why someone would like these games, when there are so many stressors and adversities in everyday life that some people find comfort in the cheesiness of Zelda, and are willing to overlook the flaws. If you cant see that then I dont know what to tell you

>>712733301
>it's not that good
>it's only an 8 out of 10
uhhhh anon

>>712750721
hold on, your opening line is that the quality of story telling in a game is expectedly bad, and gamers should lower their standards? oh my god, just don't feature a fucking story. Let Me Play The Game.

>>712730635
>glorified digital walking sim
snoyfag defense force is on maximum cope today, huh? You've never even played the game.

>>712750663
I would know considering I play it almost daily and most chests are pieces of heart that reward you for going out of your way.

>>712750665
koroks are way superior

>>712751004
weird way to spell kokiri

>>712750991
that's so patently false it's nuts

>>712751105
No, what's false is blatantly lying to my face about a game that I play frequently, telling me that the items that I've memorized are not what they actually are. You got some nerve for a dumb fuck shitposter, I'll give you that.

>>712750261
>If the item is deserving enough to be put on title, then yes, it does matter.
ok then tell me why it matters so much? How does knowing where the ocarina comes from affect the plot in anyway? It doesnt. The game will still play out exactly the same. Knowing where it came from is interesting lore but it won't affect the players perception or recontextualize anything that happens.
>So the STORY is driving the game along, and you don't see a problem with that?
no? why would I? the story is the only reason why I even remember the game at all, let alone put it in the top spot of all times. If the story was non existent the game would best be remembered for Z-targeting and open world elements but thats it.

>>712749479
>I'm happy to hear you bring up things like Kingdom Hearts
I didn't. Did your chat GPT glitch?

>AoL combat
RNG fest. Shitty balance. Out done by other better 2D games.

>BotW combat
Completely trivialized by the cooking system. Just eat your way to victory. And when you learn the trick of enemies, there is no real mechanical challenge. You're not expected to have good reflexes or timing. You just lazily execute the working solution. Thus, when stronger enemies show up, all you're doing is spamming the solution for a longer period of time, until their bloated health bars finally reach zero.

>I will outright claim that Zelda has THE BEST exploration
The Zeldas that get close to the best exploration are the more open games. While the less open Zeldas are the ones that you laud for exploration, oddly enough. So I don't think your claims are valid. OoT's exploration was already on a decline, because it was less open than previous games. And the trend of story based gates kept accelerating for the next few games. That's why Breath of the Wild was appreciated. Not because it was following an open world trend. But because it was returning to its roots, and actually being open again.

>and the best puzzles in any game series,
lol no. Even if you don't like La-Mulana. There's still Tunic, Pheonotopia Awakening, Environmental Station Alpha, Animal Well, Obra Dinn, Outer Wilds, The Witness, Talos Principle. Baba is You

>>712732917
I'm having a blast!

>>712750853
the storytelling isnt bad tho, there's literally like 2 guys trying to push this narrative in the thread and they are getting shit on, probably you. I'm saying these games are made to be enjoyed by children and when adults find joy in them too its not because they've lowered their standards, its because they understand that even if the story isnt damn Crime and Punishment it is still an experience that can take your mind off of life for a moment. I am saying to open your mind and not be a joyless bastard

>>712751337
>How does knowing where the ocarina comes from affect the plot in anyway? It doesnt.
Therein lies the problem. The world building is so small, that you can't even think why the Ocarina of Time matters to the larger picture. It's simply just a key to a door. An access card. Nothing more.

>The game will still play out exactly the same.
Thank you for admitting that it doesn't integrate into gameplay. So not only does it lack story significance, it lacks any gameplay significance too. There's no real reason you need the ocarina of time, because the song of time is already the mechanic that allows you to pass the gates. Nothing about the actual gameplay changes.

>no? why would I? the story is the only reason why I even remember the game at all
Yeesh. I'm wasting my breath on you.

>>712750665
>its okay when oot does it
fucking casuals I swear. I'm glad zoomers have "killed zelda" like you faggots did with oot.

>>712749661
An actual fucking retard.

>>712750665
Koroks are far, far superior in every way. Koroks are the greatest collectable in any video game ever.

>>712752548
>exactly one death shown in the clip
>the main enemy is virtually unharmed
If you'd just used this time to smack the enemies they'd all be dead by the end of the webm.

>>712752548
If totk came out in the 90s and oot came out today, threads would talk about totk being peak gaming because of its "grand adventure of a story" and its "depth of combat expression", while oot would be called "a disappointment as nintendo further deviates from zelda's core gameplay and introduces pointless restrictions in a cramped world"

>>712751313
here I checked a random secret, it's even worse than being a chest of rupees

>>712751729
the story sucks, dude
I'd rather be playing then have the gameplay be interupted with dogshit. Moving the goal posts isn't warranting you any favors. before it was the story of a game doesn't need to be good, and now it's that ACKshully it is good. go suck a fuck

>>712730546
brocolli head chads are PCgods not consoletrannies

Poke a BotW/TotKfag just a bit, and out comes gushing pure contempt for the rest of the series before them, every time.

>>712729863 (OP)
Twilight Princess is a shit game, little bro.

>>712754112
TP is 3 times the game OoT is

>>712730243
Twilight Princess is a shitty game you retarded faggot.

>>712750721
>You talk as if you cant understand why someone would like these games
I came into this thread stating that Zelda has C and B grade qualities. How you can read that, and then think I'm saying there's nothing to like about Zelda, I do not understand.
All I'm saying, is that when you really want to dig into the stories of these games, you will find them lacking of an excellent qualities. Nothing is more depressing than watching lore videos on BotW and TotK, and realizing there's nothing more there. Perhaps a few minor observations you overlooked yourself. Like some statues having a minor connection that you never noticed before. You go "hmm neat". But then that's it.

But I don't want to harp on the story. Because like I said, that's just one category that Zelda lacks in. Everything is like that with the games. There are no truly excellent aspects. You go digging for something deeper and find nothing.

The one thing that was kind of compelling about the games, was the split timeline. But even that was pretty much a fluke. OoT was supposed to be s prequel to ALttP. But then the later releases of WW and TP retroactively split the timeline.

>>712753873
its the greatest game of all time. It's been said time and time before. Not even going to mention critic scores because they pale in comparison to what people will organically say in these threads, it's the greatest game of all time. Not even hyperbolic either. The story is universally praised. Except for you. You're different right? Nothing you say will ever convince anyone otherwise. Sit there and sulk, make your little tantrum replies, but know that you are coping

>>712751945
ocarina is a very mid item tbqh. It's just...an ocarina, who finds that cool. alttp>oot.

>>712754575
>its the greatest game of all time.
dont make me laugh

>>712732738
I want to fuck that clown

Ocarina of Time remake is being revealed this year. It uses Botw engine but an art style closer to OoT

You can't have dense dungeons in an open world game because it will change the perception of the world to have a couple of interesting destinations. The whole point of open world zelda is the open world is the destination and interest density is pretty uniform across it

>>712752848
>If you'd just used this time to smack the enemies they'd all be dead by the end of the webm.

Nope, you'd be dead instead.

>>712752548
>says that botw has 100x the amount of combat options
>shows a totk clip
chat what did he mean by this?

>>712731569
the alpha field was much bigger

>>712754852
good, maybe that will fix the game

>>712755229
>TotK is just BotW
>Except it's not!

Make your mind up.

Anyway BotW's combat utterly shits all over every other Zelda game.

>>712753460
>wow remember that retarded slop took out all the story
>glad we got this brand new OOT PEAK and nintendo will never try openshitslop ubisoftworld ever again!
I wish I was in that world instead of the ubislop tiktok of the kingdom of the bread of the woke spinoffs forever....

>>712754852
Not that im an ootnigger, literally everything before and after is better, but I dont see how it would be a problem to make dungeons bigger... it would add something to the game, and force more of these faggots to come up with actual arguments or admit "its not the game i played when it was 13"

Because it IS open world and most of the content is not required to complete, the idea of scaling difficulty is perfectly suitable, and I think the only way the zelda team can believe otherwise is because they know players struggled with skyward sword and twilight princess' slightly smarter than oot dungeons, so they probably assume we are mostly morons that will resent the game for creating challenges.
I've been in the soulframe beta and while its mostly kind of ass (basically like playing warframe with melee only and no "ninja movement") they have some cool dungeons in the open world that you can stumble upon, some are straightforward, offer maybe one or two branching paths that just end up meeting together anyway, some garbage puzzles for babies, and usually a tough encounter at the end.
Others are much bigger, having a perception of a large, complex network of paths (but that mostly all end up where you need to go) and slightly better puzzles (one I found last night started off with an obvious "use this item to pull a water cart over and douse flames to continue", then the next one gave no obvious prompts and while showing you a barrel of water, you had to figure out that you could break the support beams holding it up to douse the fire.) and I think that an approach like that is far better than what they tried with totk.
If they brought back a guide character and just allowed us to select "easy" mode for ootbabies, then they could improve the difficulty of dungeons by making the challenge puzzle based, so that when idiots on easy mode cant figure it out, the guide can give them hints or even outright tell them what to do.

>>712755796
>>712749661
literally the same thing. Oh wait you shot some arrows, cool!

>>712756074
Still waiting for your argument.

how did aonuma make zeldabros into sonic tier era faggots? honestly impressive.

>>712756172
the argument was disproving that botw has x100 combat options, which your clip has provided evidence for

>>712755796
>using the jump defensively
that was absolutely sick

>>712755960
Do you bitch about yellow paint and journomode? Just want to see if you admit to being a hypocrite, ootnigger.

>>712737419
>normie

>>712753460
Zelda wouldn't be as popular if OoT and TotK switched places

>>712756178
>how did aonuma
By making oot.
Dont pretend zeldafags werent cancer since oot, the second majoras mask came out the fucking cycle began and hasnt stopped since.
You can STILL see the forum posts from windwaker where zelda"bros" say "im a mature adult and not a whiny baby and nintendo makes me feel like a whiny baby with wind waker and thats why I'm getting a playstation 2 and grand theft auto"
Aonuma hit too close to home with oot by making it a story about a fucking loser, then gave every 13 year old hope that they wouldnt be a loser forever...then when mm came out they raged because they didnt want to be a loser again because being a kid = being a loser when you are a fucking loser of a kid.
Then WW released and again, kid, so again, loser, and at that point it was over and snoys were born.
pic 100% rel

>>712756649
>Zelda wouldn't be as popular if OoT and TotK switched places
>the first games sold exactly as much as oot
>sales declined rapidly after oot
what an embarrassing thing to say.

>>712756751
they are video games bro, they are meant for fun. The fact that you are looking too much into it is indicative of being excessively online. Perhaps take a walk? Even standing outside on the patio or backyard and taking in the sun and breathing in the outside air is fine

and the discord found another thread to ruin, fantastic

>>712756306
>the argument was disproving that botw has x100 combat options, which your clip has provided evidence for

My clip proved that every combat situation in BotW/TotK is a unique set-piece.

Unlike previous Zeldas where combat only takes place in a flat, sterile environment and button-mashing is all you can do.

Seethe for another decade.

>>712753757
Yeah a thing you collect for upgrades are even worse than a chest of rupees. You're fucking idiot. Thanks for proving that.

>>712754103
Wow, it's almost like they're tendie cultists that just buy slop with the Nintendo brand on it and how dare you expect the quality they were once known for you fucking OoTsnoy.

I like OoT AND BotW

What now, faggot?

>>712729863 (OP)
Best game of all time imo.
Zoomers hate it because they consider it "casual". A game doesn't need overly complex mechanics or an advanced combat system to be good. It's sufficient.

>>712757498
holy fuark imagine being her cigarette burning painfully until all that's left of you is trapped floating in her lungs i heckin love oot

>>712757025
>This must be an obsession, not just a short recollection of 20 years of a game series being talked about online
I just got back from the beach, smoked a mark twain memoir no.2 for two hours, and drank espresso I made myself on the porch.

So what does that mean for you now?
Captcha:vvGAS

>>712757839
I don't give a shit what you do. But you're saying retarded things so you get retarded answers. That's how the world works, grow up and maybe you'll learn more about it.

>>712748987
having LA in your top 3 automatically makes this list based.

LA is the unironic game understander and chad top pick of the Zelda franchise

It's the best Zelda game overall.

>>712758108
Stonking great argument you've got there, ootnigger.

>>712749580
i think the real redpill about zelda now is that even if nintendo went back to the old formula it would probably be as ass as SS.

we aren't getting a more pulp fantasy aesthetic and whimsical but still somewhat serious vibes back. it'll be tech magic and gay looking shit for the foreseeable future either way

>>712759980
5th place tops

>>712757839
It means you're a onions consuming faggot retard lmao

>>712750853
1. the story and storytelling isn't bad, it's just not high brow liteture-tier
2. the medium you're supposedly a fan of is called videoGAMES

you can play dark souls 1 in its entirety and have no clue what the story and lore even was, aside from some neat flavour text and it is still a great videogame.

in any non narrative heavy genre, the story, at best, should enhance the atmosphere and not get in the way of game pacing

if you disagree you simply enjpy video games wrong, unironically

>>712729863 (OP)
It's the perfect adventure game. I wish more studios modeled their game after OOT, there'd be so many more great games out there.

>>712753460
>if thing was other thing I would be right
nice one

the best 3D zelda is Majora's Mask
the best 2D zelda is Link to the Past

>>712756751
if you base your opinion on what the dumb masses say on any topic then you might as well never discuss anything

>>712759980
if you like forced sequences that completely break the pacing every half an hour, then sure

>>712760793
I found that my evaluation of TP improved when I played it in 2 hour spurts or so at most. Didn't help me with WW or SS though.

>>712754187
Wrong.

>most never found out about the actual best zelda game

>>712734724
Are you lying about that minidungeon?

>>712761480
Why'd you post Ages' cover when the answer is Seasons?

>>712730490
16 is not considered a legal adult in Japan. You watch too much fucking anime.

>>712761480
This post is a correct post.
Seasons fags like >>712761551
need their LoZ half-remake because time puzzles filter them.

>>712760996
i have recently replayed it and it's been a while and this time I wanted to also take it in 1-2h chunks, just going with the flow and enjoying what it does well.

It is a really cool game for a one time/first time playthrough but thinking about replaying it on the merits of gameplay and overall pacing in general is a dreadful thought.

a lot of games and especially nintendo games from the mid 00s to mid 10s era have this problem of being almost entirely railroaded experiences with no respect or thought given to skill expression, alternate ways of doing things or rewarding game knowledge at all. on top of that add a lot of waiting for no reason other than style and presentation.

mario galaxy has the same problem.
terrific presentation, awesome visuals and music, but awfully paced gameplay, no player agency whatsoever and exiting and re entering any level takes about a minute off your lifespan every time.

as bad as things are now, I am very glad that era of games is over

>>712761818
seasons and ages have literally the same gameplay gimmick, just narratively framed differently. i think it is you who got filtered along with people who prefer seasons

>>712761818
your game is a fucking fetchquest simulator, don't talk shit

If Zelda wants a good story they need to study the master of storytelling, the great bambino of literature, the emperor of tales

>>712734724
So that's why TotK fags defend their game so much.
They just completely make shit up out of thin air about what wasn't in the game.

>what's over that hill?
>anon dying on it after completely making shit up about the hill

>>712761957
>>712762023
>n-no you

Absolutely fucking filtered by Mermaid's Cave.

>>712762204
i like both you mongoloid, im just pointing out they have the same gimmick.
can you read?

>>712762285
Agesfags just can't take criticism well

>>712761957
seasons has a better overworked, ages has better dungeons and puzzles. I dont know about you but I dont play Zelda to walk around and look at the animals

>>712761551
>>712761480
Enter, Oracle of Secrets.

>>712762581
It feels like every time we had a good thing going, corporations drop it. There should have been a third game, but of course there isn't because the first two were gold.

>>712759980

>>712760380
it's bad, acquire taste

>>712760486
I feel bad for people who haven't played better adventure games than OoT

>>712752158
> I'm glad zoomers have "killed zelda" like you faggots did with oot.
I'm amazed someone else on 4chan gets it. OoT ruined Zelda with timelines, Harem bullshit and tons of Donut Steel races and lore and it sold so well that the entire series just became terrible OoT clones for the next decade plus. All the charm and variety of Zelda 1-4 was murdered by OoT.

The """Fans""" of Zelda (Re: They only like OoT) are making accusations in a mirror when they say BotWfags are just latch ons who are stealing the series. A sin the OoTfags committed years ago but insist its okay when they do it.

>>712763105
Name one better.

>>712761480
I really want to see the switch hook come back

>>712730228
It's unironically this or dark souls

>>712762970
>zelda 1 that high
>oot not at least A

>>712763034
you adressed nothing in the post, you are responding to nothing, essentially.

the storyfag is illiterate, very funny

>>712763156
Unironically Breath of the Wild. Worse Dungeons, better literally everything else and some of the best sense of adventure in any video game ever.

>start the geoglyph quest
>find chapter 1
>next one is up north, that's chapter 2
>the next after that following the same direction is chapter 6 or something and now Ganondorf just killed everybody and goes nuclear
Great game but they really need to stop doing this stupid shit.

>>712762970
Someone who actually rated OoT fairly. Pretty good taste with the rest too, but OoS/OoA both deserve to be up a spot.

>>712763261
Why oh why would OoT be in A?
because it's better than the other games it's compared to?
why would that be the case, pacing?
it's lucky to be in B at this point.

>>712762970
that top 3 is intentionally designed to confuse and piss people off

same goes for the whole list really. either that or made by a contrarian who thinks he has an acquired taste

>>712763405
Those could really do with a PC port like LA got, so much pausing and changing items in those games. Ages also had a fair bit of backtracking in ways I don't find particularly enjoyable. Seasons probably does deserve to go up.

>>712760708
>>712760169
Threadly reminder that zoomers have a 48% illiteracy rate.

>>712743941
>BotW Wii U sold more than 4SA

>>712763330
nta but any sense of adventure is murdered once you realise there is literally no reason to engage with anything in the world aside from a "mandatory" amount of shrines and the dungeons (which are incredibly bland and overwhelming)

>>712743941
This doesn't even mean anything. The market is just bigger. They're selling to China and India and shit. What good does that do anybody living in the west who had access to these titles the whole time? Not a reflection of quality at all.

>>712763478
>that top 3 is intentionally designed to confuse and piss people off
No, no, no. Those three games are thesis for the entire ranking. Each one of those three are emphatic of the peak of three distinct pillars of design philosophy for the franchise. I do realize that might be confusing to you, but that should only pardon you consider and reconsider what is being displayed.

Twilight Princess is peak linear 3D traditional Zelda, sporting the best dungeon designs. A Link Between Worlds is peak non-linear 2D traditional Zelda, sporting the best gimmick. Tears of the Kingdom is peak non-linear 3D open world Zelda, sporting the most content and most robust gameplay.

>>712763405
>>712763454
nobody agrees with you, keep coping. OoT will always be SSS rank. List is ragebait

>>712763816
The real metric things should be judged by is attach rate

>>712763618
4swords got shafted, bring it back and put that fag Aonuma on it

>>712763868
I will never rank it above average, dilate.

>>712763548
Explains the affinity for BotW and its lack of story.

>>712763618
Toxotransmosis moment.

>>712763261
>zelda 1 that high
NTA, the fuck is that supposed to mean?

>>712755796
Doing slow motion instant shots on enemies isn't what I like about Zelda combat. What I like about Zelda combat is that it puts you in a one on one sword fight with an enemy. I can't think of any other game that does that.

BOTW combat feels generic in comparison. I'd rather play skyward sword

>>712729863 (OP)
>entire child section is filler
>Hyrule Field is an empty field with nothing to do
>most of the adult dungeons are mediocre
7/10, a good game but wildly overrated

>>712744672
Red Pilled

>>712764279
It's wild how overrated Ocarina of Time gets. There's so many better games available now that it transcends reason. You would think there's a mass of people who all played it originally while their parents were fighting.

>>712764279
>Filler
It teaches you the gameplay mechanics and slowly ramps up the difficulty to brace you for the forest temple. That's like saying world 1 of Mario is filler.

It's a necessity. People were already rage quiting when they reached the Fire temple. Imagine what would happen if the first temple was the forest temple.

Plus the story was well done. Ganondorf's trap was genuinely shocking if you weren't spoiled to it

>>712764580
>It teaches you
really wish it didn't, thanks

>>712729863 (OP)
Why didn’t they try to replicate OoT’s artstyle? TP looks good as well aesthetically

>>712764580
>Plus the story was well done.
oh it's this bozo again, play better games.

>>712763108
>Donut Steel races
gotta push back on that one, I think the gorons are cool, though I cant tell you a game where I thought they really worked well, in fact it seems that with the single exception of the beach bum drifter goron from windwaker and crack addicted negro goron from totk, the whole concept has been a waste.

>>712764669
Uhhh, your 3DS version??

>>712764736
name 3 games with better story and plot progression that OoT, go

>>712764668
I don't understand this criticism. It's a few seconds. A few seconds of dialogue doesn't ruin the game. I went into OOT expecting an insufferably slow story due to all the obsessive whining about slow text.

>>712764736
You don't need a complicated story. Ganondorf tricking Link was shocking and unique. What game would you consider better?

>>712764790
>single exception
>listed two
I thought about the crack gorons after meaning to say the beach bum was the single exception, but forgot to edit that out.
I just think a goron being a beach bum in a flooded world is very goron-like and them being crackheads is funny. The other shit not so much, I especially dont like them trying to make them seem noble.

>>712764009
Because people want to play video games, not fucking interactive political propaganda movies?
What are you even asking?

>>712764580
>>712764920
>its okay when oot does it
you cant help yourself can you?

>>712764837
name 3 that don't

>>712764920
>I dont understand why Navi's constant interruptions are a nuisance
must be challenging to be mentally retarded

>>712765071
I didn't ask anything retard. Thank you for proving my point.

>>712764920
the complains come from retarded speedrunners

>>712765071
noooo you're supposed to want to mash A through dialogue and cutscenes, it's why people love Skyward Sword so much

>>712765819
Last of us
Last of us part 2
Dead island

but here are three with better stories than oot:
Twilight princess
Wind Waker
Tears of the Kingdom
bonus:
Majoras Mask
A Link Between Worlds
Skyward Sword
Hyrule Warriors
Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity
and probably Hyrule Warriors: Age of Imprisoning.

>>712765954
No it doesn't, retard. I can just skip it by side hopping over the trigger and opening the door.

>>712766010
Last of Us was more befitting of Shiggy's vision than what Ocarina of Time attempted.

>>712765951
>anon doesnt understand he just proved my point, not his
Anon, I...

>>712766140
Bless your heart.

>>712766280
NTA, but if you don't like BotW you have shit taste.

>>712766120
That is a funny interview in retrospect, but to be fair I think that was his cope for not being able to make a true zelda game in 3d because the n64 wasnt powerful enough to truly translate the formula to 3d. So to make the adventure seem like an adventure, they used visual language and scripts to make it feel bigger than it was.
Theres another interview about the jumping that was basically "yeah we couldnt make platforming work with a jump button so we just made it a movie", which makes miyamoto really seem in retrospect to be "churching up" the whole thing.

>>712766280
>being this thick
I'll admit, I considered you may just be trolling.

>>712766010
Last of Us
Opinion discarded

>>712766553
Ocarina of Time has a larger world than Zelda 1.

>there are "people" who would have you believe the story in Ocarina of Time is good

>>712766329
>>712766667
tsmt
>>712767426
oot is political far left woke propoganda garbage unlike BASED of the west and TOTK

>>712767542
Proof n64boomers like moviegame communism.

>>712729863 (OP)
OOT is a classic for a reason, no amount of /v/ seethe will stop it being true.

100 skulltula tokens hidden in (mostly) easy to find places, giving you rewards every so many is far better than 90000000 koroks spread across a map the size of a small country literally giving you a turd for slaving to get them all by repeating tedious puzzles over and over and OVER.

>>712729863 (OP)
MAKE-A LINK'S A FOOTSTEPS SOUND DIFFARENT ON DA CAREPTO!

>>712767542
Yes.

>>712734724
Playing BotW
>What's over that hill?
>A forest!!! Oooh what could be there?
>It was a Shrine. What else is here?
>Nothing. It was just the Shrine.
>What about that place over there? Let me guess. It's another Shrine and some Korok Seeds when I get there.
>Called it.
>I guess I really have already seen all the unique content in this game hours ago, and it's just boilerplate repetition, only 10 hours in.
>100 hours later
>It honestly was.

Playing OoT
>Just cleared Forest Temple. Ooh, my Cuccoo Egg hatched
>Is Talon on the Farm?
>Huh. He's not. Kakariko?
>Omg, he's in this house sleeping
>Will he wake up with this chicken?
>Nice, he woke up.
>Maybe I should get the horse. Nah, I'll do Fire Temple now.
>Sheik appears. Learn new song
>Kino
>I wonder what happens next in the game

>>712735419
kinda hard to pace time travel...

>>712767542
It's not exactly Lord of the Rings but its solid and easy to follow...since you know, it was un-apologetically a kids game with little sprinkles of things that only older players will understand.

>the joyous wonder of exploring the vibrant town as a child, filled with people and life
>the sad state of the world after waking up as an adult
>sheiks speeches about the passage of time

Its a great product to enjoy across the age spectrum, but its almost intentionally designed to hit SUPER hard replaying it later in life

>>712752158
>People pretend this shit still holds up
Fucking delusional autistics

>>712767542
lady, you are a fish, and I haven't seen you in 7 years when we briefly hung out once..

I played Link's awakening and I thought it was ok.

>>712767852
900 korok seeds spread out to easily be found, only requiring less than half those to max out, and no good reason to even max out, IS FAR and AWAY superior, despite your retardation on the matter.
>>712744672
based

>>712764669
Nintendo has an obsession with gimmicks and, by extension, gimmicky artstyles, this can be seen across other franchises like kirby, yoshi and paper mario.

>>712768501
This the characters needed to be more animu like muh botw totk!!! ^0^

>>712768269
only doing shrines and quests, never touching korok seeds, I got 80+ hours of unique content.
a replay of OoT only takes me 8 hours and feels like a total chore.

>>712768402
>it hits me so hard when Zelda crossdresser waxes on about time being a river
well that's you

>>712768964
>content
slop

>>712769118
his (your) word not mine>>712768269

>>712768402
based enjoyer of stories. imaginationlets are incapable of seeing the heart and soul within simplistic stories such as OoT.

>>712768964
But the content is not unique in BotW. It's boilerplate and asset-reuse from beginning to end. In old-school 3D Zelda you get new environments, mechanics and enemy types to fight as it progresses, and each dungeon is full of assets not seen anywhere else in the game.

>>712733915
SS Dungeons were really great, or would be if Fi wasn't fucking talking up a storm in each fucking room all the fucking time, and other lil annoyances that added all up to make SS a good game covered in shit

>>712768964
>I got 80+ hours of unique content
80+ hours feels like shit no matter what game it is.

This mogs the Champions in BotW, despite BotW really really wanting it to evoke the same feeling.

>>712768964
>I got 80+ hours of unique content.
Of the same variety of weapons but SUPER RARER?

>>712770806
its an issue with the writing. In OoT we were able to meet the sages, get to know their personalities, worked with them to save the land, and watched them grow into the saviors of hyrule. In Botw we are essentially just told and given a few scenes that link was already aquatinted with them, they told and not showed. Personally I didn't feel as invested with the characters in botw because of that

>>712767904
OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhh

BotWfags will never admit it but BotW is just OoT for zoomers just like WW, the proto BotW was just an attempt at that/

>>712771379
I think there's some amount of disconnect from having everything already having happened but I feel like that isn't the disconnect I feel the strongest when I play BotW. To me it feels like they're too flanderized and showoff, where the brief interactions we see with them aren't meaningful -- they lack subtext other than "remember how we told you there were champions? THESE are THOSE"

In Ocarina the main theme of the game is "Time" and how growing up changes things. There are 4 girls you used to know that for plot reasons can't be with Link by the end, except Malon, and the rest of the Sages are all people who Link met as a kid, who now have similar "grown-up" responsibilities and you re-experience those bonds in a "favor returned" sort of way. The amount of actual dialog for the champions is probably longer than any of the Sages in OoT except Saria, but it doesn't feel like it.

Because in BotW they just establish in a complete cookie-cutter fashion that "Darunia was Link's BRO, and then he died a champion!"

The closest we get to something like OoT is the Mipha scene where there's the Zelda trope of the Zora girl being Link's Betrothed but it can't be. But somehow that too felt very superficial compared to how Ruto is this brat Link met as a kid in OoT, saving her from her usual shenanigans, and making a promise, and then dutifully helping her save the Zora as an adult.

Wind Waker doesn't even have the 2 time-points to compare between and it still does a better job with the "Sage" characters, through the connection between Hyrule and the Great Sea. Medli and Makar feel misplaced, like their life belongs to some different purpose. That ties in with the thesis the game reveals at the end where the King and Ganon are also fooling Link and Tetra into believing they fit into something from a bygone era instead of living as they are.

The topic of WW is that "times change", so what happens in its narrative is on target with that message

>>712770545
it was a good solid 80 hours, I was disappointed when it was over

>>712769865
dungeons in old Zelda games also reused a lot of stuff too, and newsflash that doesn't make anything bad

>>712771357
weapons, armors, quests, puzzles, exploration, the satisfaction in toggling on hero path after a full playthrough is immeasurable.
the PAIN when it gets stuck in dark forest for a long while before continuing on

>>712771379
You have this so fucking backwards, in OoT you show up demand the spirit stone, are told to do a task, you do it and they act like you're bonded for life. In BotW you get demonstrably shown their bonds, and it feels like genuine connection they share. There's more heart in Daruk's scenes than anything in OoT.

>>712767542
What's the problem here? You don't like good ol' dolphin tits lady? She's great I thought

>>712772320
Myeah, but old-Zelda has a pretty steady flow of "always seeing new thing after new thing". In BotW once you've tried each "Biome" the different places in the overworld are basically the same and they're completely devoid of anything worthwhile to instead just have Shrines and Shrine puzzles.
I don't understand why everyone is so mesmerized by that and calling it a "Masterpiece" when the core "loop" of BotW is so extremely plain compared to the progressive adventure older Zeldas set you on. They felt like they unfolded and revealed more as you progressed, but in BotW it's just a huge buffet of similarly-tasting food, and the only point in which the real "sense of discovery" really hits is in the first 10 hours, before you've seen the full extent of its "procedurally generated" stuff.

>>712772428
>quests, puzzles, exploration,
Be genuine at the very least.

>>712772567
Absolute gen alpha take. BotW feels completely juveneile to me. There's just scenes telling what was already mentioned. In OoT there's more of a call and response pattern to how the relationships are written. There's the incident in which Link got some reason to get to know them, and then as an adult there's the second incident in which he reaffirms that they share a connection and have to say goodbye cuz "Sage duty calls".
It's completely simple but it does a lot with very little. BotW on the other hand feels like it's trying to "impress" you with how [Insert Kawaii/Yare-yare/Tsundere/Yandere] each Champion is. It feels empty in subtext.

>In BotW you get the Champion Ghosts smiling over the Castle
>It thinks it has "earned" the LEGEND OF ZELDA TITLE THEME cue after that
Look at OoT go though. It made it look easy.

>>712772636
>a pretty steady flow of "always seeing new thing after new thing". But in BotW
you're really stretching to make BotW seem more bland than it is, there's a lot of new stuff in OoT that isn't quite new. At least there's no masquerading going on in BotW, the shrines have the same aesthetic, so you can clearly see the new being presented in them.

>>712772818
boomerbabble crying about how anime and isekai won again

>>712772772
More genuine would be me breaking apart exploration into a hundred discoveries that were all unique. Disingenuous would be >>712771357 focusing on weapons, for which BotW actually has multiple different ones, as opposed to other Zelda games from before, and hyper fixating on damage values.

>>712772948
>crt filter
botwotk wins

>>712772818
You are just jacking off OoT, dude. I get it you played it when you were a kid, move on.

>>712771483
I love his Sonic Adventure 2 review in the middle of the video out of nowhere.

>>712772956
>you're really stretching to make BotW seem more bland than it is
No, it really is that bland.
When you've been to each biome (Ice mountain, Tropic, Grassy, Rocky) you've been to almost anywhere in the game already and really what you find are
>Enemies
>Shrines
>Korok Seeds
>Replaceable weapons
Like... that's it. That's all BotW boils down to, and it leaves us with
>Lost Woods
>Gerudo Town
>Divine Beasts
as the only real "showpiece" moments in the game, so the way I felt after the first Divine Beast was "I feel like this is all the game is going to be" and when I beat Ganon after the 4th one, I was like "yeah... pretty much".
It is just 90% empty terrains with barely existing lore to the world, and "Shrines".

TotK fares a lot better but it simultaneously has even more Shrines and all those 50 of those signpost guys, and the god-awful subterranian level that I wasted so much time on when there's no point to it except asset-reuse. It feels like it just existed to recycle every Main Dungeon boss.

>>712773046
Fuck you, OoT is better than your slop

>>712772948
Mido deep down knew that the adult he talked to was Link. That's why it hurt even more when he realized Saria wasn't coming back, as well as the boy now man that he bullied.

why was the oot bumblebee blue and why dont they add it to totk?

>>712738473
and at that point they become a world, instead of a theme park ride

>>712773534
Source?

>>712763227
>Repeatedly hit enemies on the defense in OoT
>Get nowhere.
>Repeatedly hit enemies on the defense in DS.
>Their guard eventually breaks and you can attack them.
The answer seems clear to me.
I don't actually hold this as an objective truth. I'm sure theres stuff you can do with Deku Nuts to speed things along. I just prefer to have the freedom to go full ooga booga. I also just like the weapon variety.
I miss the Ice Rod from LttP. Picking up enemies and throwing them was great.

>>712772567
nope read it again. Botw "tells" and doesnt "show". You literally stated in your reply that Link in OoT actually does something and interacts with the sages before obtaining the connection with them. That gets the player invested in that they are actually developing perceptions of the sages that pay off later in the ending scenes.
>In BotW you get demonstrably shown their bonds
couldn't have said it better myself.

As someone who got into zelda with botw and totk, botw became harder to get back into as its just the beta for totk but i enjoyed zelda 1, lttp, gamecube, and wii zeldas, spirit tracks and minish cap yet.

OOT literally felt clunky to play even compared to what came before it so idk it was a struggle to get through it all, story was pretty cool and the atmosphere though dated hard carried it, still prefer nuzelda to OOT.

Haven't played anything not mentioned but I have to believe a lot of OOT still being liked as much as it is all just nostalgia and I will never get it because I wasn't there at the time, no offence to the boomers.

>>712774021
After you play Saria's Song for him in the Lost Woods. He knows it's you but won't admit to it. The dialogue moves in a way that shows he's hesitant to come to terms with you being the kid he bullied.

>>712774139
>Botw "tells" and doesnt "show"
then what in the fuck are the memories/cutscenes then? it's the fucking opposite of what you're claiming. You WISH it told you more, for some fucking reason.

>Boy I sure love going on a a glorified scavenger hunt for korok seeds and shrines
>Boy I sure love seeing the same copy paste enemies over and over
>Boy I sure love the shit boss fights
>Boy I sure love going into my inventory a million times
>Boy I sure love the shitty voice acting
>Boy I sure love the muddy green graphics
>Boy I sure love the complete lack of a story
People unironically defend this too.

look this shit is night and day difference

BotW:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzNek4MfK5M&t=1733

OoT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66jojNpV8Vo&t=2077


You're claiming the complete opposite of reality, one where we can clearly see BotW is showing, and OoT is stating.

>it's been over a year of /v/ taking shitty indian underage b8 in every single Zelda thread
just make it stop already

>>712775414
OOT is so much better. It's not close.

>>712775523
botw cutscene feels like a ghibli, oot is so fucking sleepy reddits

BotW feels like a movie compared to that basic bitch novella OoT.

>>712730228
Thanks for your input Mr. Hill

>>712773275
part of me hoped that the OoT review was a bait and switch, and that the remainder of the video would be a SA2 review. alas.

>>712775612
>new graphics look better than polygons
uhh yeah bro you got him there

>>712755796
>30 second webm
>the archer bokoblin only shoots 3 arrows at you

That is some truly braindead AI

>>712778147
*facepalm* ugh, what a boomer nonplaint

>>712743941
>Nintendo thought they could pull covid sales numbers indefinitely
lmao

>>712729863 (OP)
I replayed it this year and yea it stands up as everything a game should be
>player is given a respectable amount of freedom and agency
>directions of all quests are there if you pay attention but not spelled out to you like you're an idiot
>constant novelty and engagement with characters and dungeons
>world feels fully realized. you really feel like you traverse and uncover one corner to another
>sense of adventure retained throughout
>peak atmosphere dripping from every screen
Nothing compares

woops guess my post was too good for rebuttal

>>712778804

>>712778804
>>712781330
>>712781402
I just wish it was more difficult. After LTTP you never see a game over screen in any future Zelda game.

Open World has done irreparable damage to the industry

BoTW > old shit

>>712750879
Prove him wrong

>>712778804
I just recently finished another playthrough of the game after at least 5 years. I was pleasantly surprised by just how much the game opens up after you become an adult. I took on the gerudo fortress before I even had the bow and the game just lets you do that. I also have a new appreciation for how many little ways there are to do things earlier than you'd think with some creativity.

>>712729863 (OP)
The n64 zeldas have an almost unmatched sense of atmosphere. Just looking around in first person at npcs or environments feels so eerie and dream like. This quality alone is what really brings me back to them every once in awhile, and I suspect I'm not alone in this.

>>712783218
If we ever get nuked (which is likely nowadays) I will listen to MM Final Day on repeat while drinking the hardest liquor I can find

>>712778804

>>712745881
Sounds like you're just too unintelligent to appreciate a good story, like the one in Xenoblade 1, 2, and X.

>>712730228
Thanks Hank hill

Zora's domain is the single best and vibiest water area in any game ever. Prove me wrong. Pro-tip: You can't.

My dream game would basically be mechanically close to OoT, but have a progression structure more like Demon's Crest.

>>712729863 (OP)
OOT is one of the greatest games ever made. I wouldn't be surprised if its better than the new games.

>>712788456
holy reddits

>>712784095
I wish more changes were done for Adult Zora's Domain after beating the Water Temple. The brunt of it IIRC is just bringing back the old water level of Lake Hylia.

>>712763625
Nigga if you need a reason to engage with the world in the game outside whatever can speedrun you to the credits fastest, then any lack of a sense of adventure is solely on YOU not the game.

>>712751465
I meant that I'd happily admit that KH had better executed combat than any 3D Zelda if you were to claim that.

>AoL, out done by other better 2D games
Which games? You're still being non-specific about what you think has actually better combat for each format. I didn't even go into how refined the top down gameboy combat is and how well executed it is in Oracle of Seasons.

>BotW combat completely trivialized by the cooking system
This specifically doesn't apply to Eventide island though, which basically has a uniquely well executed survival/"imm-sim" approach to combat I haven't seen pulled off anywhere else. Likewise, Lynels are a fantastic enemy even though they're unfortunately cheesable with food.

>OoT's exploration was already on a decline, because it was less open than previous games
It was the most open game in the series next to the original LoZ on release.

>lol no. Even if you don't like La-Mulana
But I DO like La-Mulana, I just don't think it is as satisfying to play as the best Zelda games because, while the puzzles are often difficult and clever, the game is laid out in such a haphazard way so that a clue or solution to something might appear in a random part of the world and you're expected to keep track of pages and pages of shit yourself just in case.

Part of what makes Zelda so great is that you can think about its world holistically. The games (specifically the 3D ones on the N64) establish that they take place in a world that operates in certain ways, so, for instance, if an NPC appears in some location at some time, then (unless they've died or otherwise) they'll likely appear in some other place if they aren't in the same spot at a different time. Any given piece of arbitrary 'lore' might clue you in to something about an NPC that might be the key to discovering some particular secret. Zelda games take pains to establish the sense that the world you are exploring resembles reality in various ways, while more abstract games don't.

>OoT filters 80s kids AND zoomers
How does it do it so well?

>>712788679
I'd be interested in seeing a mod for the game that involves restoring the domain yourself as a late game optional quest type thing. That type of thing would be really interesting to see pulled off.

>>712783218
You're not. I loved traveling in towns when the sun was nearly setting just to see things under that red hue, especially right when the music stopped before transitioning into nightfall.

>>712783218
>I suspect I'm not alone in this.
No, you're absolutely not. The problem with this is that, if you genuinely feel this, you can't really explain this quality to someone who *doesn't* experience it themselves, as there's no amount of analysis you can do to show someone who doesn't get this why you would value this so highly or why no other game properly replicates this unique, bizarre sense of 'hyper-reality' that only these games really give.

>>712729863 (OP)
> the world isn't bigger-
Hyrule field exists, stopped reading there

>>712731719
i beat both oot and botw at 25. BotW was the only one that felt like actual videogame and not a sonymovieslop

>>712733301
the hell you talking about dungeons? You exactly knew what nintendo did with them. There was grass one, there was fire one, there was ice one, all with the same items as in previous one. Literally only exception being Skyward Sword.

>>712792161
ironic considering the bulk of story in botw is told through flashback cutscenes

>>712792787
the reddit tree was like the last of us 2 in oot

>>712748954
Typically it needs to be a game you already know well, but they're really good for giving you an excuse to learn niche interactions between mechanics and cool curiosities about the game. I had played ALttP five or six times before starting the randomizer, and I went from liking the game to loving it once I really understood the elegance of its dungeon design and the number of happy accidents that let various tools solve problems in strange ways. Some of those are glitches that do things like pushing through impassable rails or skipping gaps with precise bomb jumps, but there's also a pleasant mastery to knowing where everything is and what it takes to get there, then matching that with what you have now and what you need.

>>712792073
Hyrule field isn't even that big and it's supposed to imitate the feeling of freedom from being confined and the wanders of trecking to an almost mythical place.

>>712748954
Autism special interest

>>712792787
>completely optional cutscenes you have to go out of your way to view
>movie game
You don't understand irony.

Say you hate gameplay without saying it:
>>712781681

>>712792986
The reddit tree dies after you complete its dungeon. The sages were more obnoxiously than the tree was

>>712792787
Irony would be hating on open world games, while embracing randomizers to create the variable playstyles evocative of open world games in your linear games>>712793471

>>712794780
>walking simulators
>gameplay

>>712794878
Randomizers actually make the world worth exploring. That's the key difference.

>>712794939
Shiggy really went for the walking sim approach when designing Ocarina of Time
>>712766120

>>712795026
Whatever you need to tell yourself, you're missing the forest for the trees. It's funny

>>712794878
Despite the name the joy of randomizers isn't in the randomness or the unstructured nature of exploration, it's the mastery of the very dense playspace and precise knowledge of how the pieces fit together. If anything it's the exact opposite of an open world game where everything is available but it's all indistinct, it's very precisely understood locations linked in unknown chains of dependencies.

The switch did irreparable damage to the zelda fanbase

>>712795081
You're arguing with at least three different people and acting smug about the fact that you're the one confused. I'm not going to ask you to jump off a bridge about it but if you could like, drink too much water and have a stomachache for a bit it'd help smooth things out on a cosmic level.

>>712795035
>guise he used the words 'movie' and 'camera' so that totally means my leap in logic is justified

>>712729863 (OP)
The worst 3d Zelda is better than botw and totk combined

Nintendo will never make a real Zelda game ever again

It's over

People say "BotW and TotK are good games, just not good Zelda games", but is this actually true?

>>712794780
>Zoomer speech
>Zoomer taste
fucking die

>>712795204
No, it's not. They're not good games

>>712730379
Around here children were generally considered de-facto adult once they were full-fledged church-members.
Generally around age 13/14 with "confirmation" (in case of protestants). That changed only during the 19th and 20th century.

In a medieval society that Link is a bona-fide-adult.

>>712783218
I feel like they didn't lean quite as hard into the whacky/funny character design prior to Aonuma getting completely control. Sure, a lot of them have slightly quirky, odd, cartoony designs. The game just doesn't beat you over the head with it. And during this period Terada, Osawa, Imamura and Koizumi weren't afraid to fuck around. Look at this. A headless guard selling ghosts, surrounded with empty liquor bottles at his feat.

>>712729863 (OP)
BotW is such dogshit. These games are time wasters with no real level design. Even if you take out all the terrible open world stuff and overworld stuff from both games and only leave the good parts OoT is the better game, and honestly every single other 2d and 3d Zelda as well.

>>712795242
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu_eDxflkMc

>>712755796
play any 2d zelda game retard. zelda on the nes has better combat

The only bad Zelda games ever have been on the Switch. This sandbox nonsense has to stop.

It saddens me that open-world killed the concept of a focused adventure that takes you from one set-piece to the next with the only downtime being fun and meaningful shit like doing minigames in a town or looking for heart pieces. Why aren't there more games like OOT?

>>712798515
>Why aren't there more games like OOT?
There really aren't more games like 3D Zeldas, period. For how popular the series is, you would think there would be more, but nope. At best you used get older games that are "kinda sorta similar but not really" like Castlevania 64 or maybe Tomb Raider. But nowadays even that is pretty barren. It must be boyomd the scope of indies and triple A has forgotten how to make games.

>>712729863 (OP)
OOTs Forest Temple will never be topped

>>712798285
It sold too well for them to stop

Zelda is now an open world slop series

>>712798515
>Why aren't there more games like OOT?
Surprisingly difficult to make. Even Nintendo fucks it up most of the time. They also tend to need quite a few people working on them. Your average indie dev can make a 2D Zeldalike, Metroidvania, or whatever. But doing a 3D Zelda isn't easy, you need a proper studio. Finally, there's just not that much money in it. Why pursue a OoTlike when you could just shit out another open world or survivalcrafting slop and potential sells 10s of million.

legend 64

>>712799538
my hope is that Echoes of Wisdom flopping compared to the Link's Awakening remake will at least save 2D Zelda from the same fate.

>>712799312
>why aren't the more games like zelda
There are. Except they all improved on it's more boring aspects. Every single Sony third person action game is a Zelda clone, but with actual shooting/jumping/combat, not JUST lame puzzles. With actual story, not JUST intro and then nothing happens till you get all mcguffins. Latest GoWs being a perfect example.
---
on a totally different topic, isn't it weird that hyrule has the most hateable amount of characters of any video game world? Besides borderlands. everyone is some kinda whackjob, fetishist, or a poor joke, Nary a single normal person in the world. No wonder Ganondorf tries to kill them, he is one of the few other normal person in canon.

OOT itself is also a pretty direct copy of point and click quests in everything but "gameplay", so yeah , there's a shitton of options

couldn't be more retarded even if he tried

>>712734719
SS's only problem is the lack of hyrule field and the apparent disconnect between worldspaces

>>712800364
SS only problem is being a dark souls 1 interrupted by dumb wind waker wannabe bird.

>>712800207
>this level of snoy delusion
ratchet and clank is not a zelda game
okami and jade cocoon are

>>712729863 (OP)
The remake is going to be incredible

>>712800638
>ratchet and clank
Zelda games have so little identity that isn't completely rooted in stupid outdated bullshit or in incestuous self repetition it's hard to name a thing about them that makes them a genre. But no, ratchet and clank are a GOOD zelda game.

>>712732917
I'm replaying Windwaker on my Switch 2 and it's just as magical, Nintendo are forever and timeless

>>712732917
I'm having an absolute blast on my Nintendo Switch also, purchased at BestBuy for $450MRP

>>712800207
>>712800871
I know this is just baot, but atleast say something semi-believable like Jak and Daxter. Ratchet and Clank is a third person shooter through and through, while it has exploration it doesn't really have puzzles. And why even mention a pure Hack n Slash like GoW? Might as well claim DmC is a zelda-like at that point.

>>712801475
because Zelda doesn't have exploration either. It's completely linear experience. Jak and Daxter are collectathon then GTA clone, nothing in common with Zelda even remotely.

And does zelda even have puzzles? Links Awakening or Majora's mask sure, but the rest you just press the switch in front of you, interract with gimmick and press the next switch. Only exception being the water temple, and it tripped everyone up. This is like calling climbing in uncharted a puzzle. No, you just do things you see sequentially. Only puzzle in Twilight Princess is FUCKING statue moving to unlock master sword. If anything, new zeldas actually have more of a puzzles, because when you walk into a room you have to spend some amount of time realizing which of the abilities to use, cause it isn't immediately obviious. I am not even against the style, just calling it puzzles? This is not The Witness or even Portal

>>712801723
>It's completely linear experience.
And the aLttP one is even more complex.

>>712801894
>aLttP
Really? I've seen no evidence of this. LttP's fans keep repeating it, like they do, but every actual progression chart of it I've seen shows it as being somewhat less freeform.

>>712801894
ALttP is not OOTlike, it's a transitional point. Which has more in common with BotW than OOT

>>712800638
>jade cocoon
I'm getting old,I meant dark cloud

>>712802125
OoT is literally aLttP's progression flow done in 3D. The change happens after them (although it started with Links Awakening).

>>712802270
idk, maybe if you skulk around pokin corners. Which you will never do after intro, because the game is railroaded as child and punishes you excessively with wasted time every turn you do that isn't in direction of story. I just went where NPCs told me because the game taught me it was the only viable route since the beginning, how am i supposed to know it becomes slightly non-linear later? ALttP has no such issues

>>712802405
>ALttP has no such issues

>>712802405
>ALttP has no such issues
Wut?

ALttP is more linear than OoT for longer and handholds you harder by marking your objectives directly on your map. Why do you people bullshit about this stuff so much?

>>712802535
it just stops telling you shit after you unlock dark world at all, that's why. At least i've never found anyone who told me anything of use, had to figure stuff out myself. Which is why i hate this game lol, cause i have no clue how turtle rock is supposed to be discovered

>>712802643
>it just stops telling you shit after you unlock dark world at all, that's why
But you know exactly where all the dungeon entrances are and the fortune teller will advise you on what you need to do, along with the communication you get from Sahasrahla & Zelda. OoT has a whole bunch of stuff it expects you to figure out from clues and just general exploration.

>>712731719
>He is Donald Trump, Putin or Kim Jong Un,
You had me until this.

OOT is the best game ever made. it doesnt mean other zelda games are bad.

>>712730078
OoTfags are snoys though. Look at their behavior in this thread.

OoT and MM existed at a rare and special time in which the Ratings authorities weren't as clued-in as they are now, so both the games have a surprisingly dark tone at times and throw in all sorts of death imagery and horror, something that really added to the experience of the game. As a kid I was scared of the Spirit Temple, Beneath the Well and the Sea Snakes in the ocean of Great Bay. That fear was something I had to get over as a player, and that blended in perfectly with the themes of the games and the overall idea that you're a hero that has to conquer such fears to get the job done.
Now, Zelda games have no real edge to them; everything is soft and rounded, there's no sharp corners or real horror elements, and the European aesthetic has been replaced for the usual Japanese shit. Such a shame. Imamura carried Nintendo so hard during the N64 era.

>>712807137
true, oot made me the man i am today