And I'm still mad

MGS 4 released 17 years ago and it's the game that deserves your spite, but you were probably 13 years old when you played it so it's ok that it raped the series.

>>713400523
4 being a mess doesn't make V any less disappointing stupid nigger

>>713400665
No, but 4 is a million times more disappointing than V. Series was already long dead by the time V came out. And at least V is a good game despite the dogshit story.
>Inb4 "b-but muh multiplayer"

5 is good in the non autist sperg community

>>713400761
For all it's faults 4 has an ending

>>713400761
The only good thing about the game is how Snake plays. But the gameplay is wasted on an empty, boring map.

MGS4 was literally mocking the fans who wanted a conclusion to the story.
MGSV is a masterpiece.

>>713400920
It'd be better if it didn't, so I don't know how that's not a fault

>>713401005
Now you're just being retarded. 4's ending is satisfactory and that's a huge plus compared to V which doesn't even have one

>>713401289
>4's ending is satisfactory
lmaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaao
Kill yourself
This is why I always push back against MGS V hate. It is literally propagated by people that were doing the soiface on MGS 4 raping the series.

>>713400523
How is 4 a mess? Genuinely have never heard anybody saying this explain why.

>>713400934
How was it mocking the fans?

>>713401467
You're obviously coming from a position of dishonesty if you claim you have never read anyone go at length about how MGS 4 is soulless fan service that ruins the story set by the previous three games.
Either that or you're a newfag.
Your objective was to get me to talk and you did the opposite. You're getting nothing from me.

>>713401365
>Vbab is mad that his favorite trash will never live up to the best in the series
Just sad to see.

>>713401658
Ive literally played Metal Gear 1 and 2, and every single canon entry MGS1-4 plus V and Peace Walker. What is there to understand about 4 being bad? It literally just explained everything and ended the franchise in a healthy manner. You wont talk because your retarded

>>713400523
4's biggest problem was that you didn't get enough time with the gameplay. The peak of MGS gameplay

>>713401365
Why do you have to make it some sort of competition between 4 and V? V's story is completely butchered and guess what, story is a pretty big part of what people remember.

>>713401658
Good thing we have upstanding, principled posters like you to make sure no discussion happens on this video games discussion website. Can you imagine actually having to talk about your thoughts and opinions? I don't even want to think about it.

>>713400665
You should've known better than to expect anything after 4 and especially after Peace Walker.
>>713400920
A shit one.

>>713401658
>you have never read anyone go at length
Are you even capable of thinking for yourself?

>>713401658
Lmao you won't explain because you have no actual defense outside some buzzwords you parrot from /v/

>>713400523
when the hell is Master Collection 2 coming out?

>>713400761
game peaks hard in afghanistan

>>713400439 (OP)
I had this in my library along with the Prologue chapter mission (still not 100%'d) for about that long. Maybe I'll finally get around to finishing it now that I have a new PC, long after the multiplayer integration must have fizzled out.

>>713401858
>shitting on Peace Walker
Thanks, I wasn't sure if you were baiting

>>713401896
*I* have gone at length about how MGS 4 is nothing but soulless unsatisfying fan service for brainlets. Many times.
Why the fuck would I do it again when the person I'm speaking to starts with a dishonest position of "I-I-I-I never read anyone explaining why uguuu"
Really, bitch? That's all that was talked about back in 2008 /v/. It's been talked about at least once a year ever since.
I don't buy it.

>>713402250
Thanks for the poignant and comprehensive argument anon-kun

>>713402452
Dishonest people don't deserve honest effort.

The theory threads leading up to it were more fun than the actual game.
>Quiet is actually Chico after getting his dick chopped off

>>713402503
Yeah I'm sure it has nothing to do with you being (I assume) invariably blown out of the water every time you "write a length" about MGS 4

>>713402579
game would've been so much better if quiet was chico, the venom x quiet romance was still in, and quiet being a man was revealed at the very end in the final tape

>>713402806
Not every game has to feature your fetish Anon.

Nearly all the Metal Gear games are good
God tier
>MGS2
>MGS3
>MGSV Phantom Pain
Top tier
>MGS1
>MGS Ghost Babel
>MGS Peace Walker
>MGS4
High tier
>MG Rising
>Metal Gear 2
>MGSV Ground Zeroes
>MGS VR Missions
>MG Acid 2
Mid tier
>MGS Portable Ops
>MGS Twin Snakes
>MG Acid
Low tier
>Snake's Revenge
>Metal Gear 1
Shit tier
>MG Survive

>>713400523
I was 20 and I'm still mad about both

>>713402579
>talking about games is more fun than plsying them
>GUYS WHAT IF THIS CHARACTER WAS A TRANNY LMAO
Millennials really need to kill themselves.
You are the exact same subhumans who slurp up faggotry like Deltarune

>>713400439 (OP)
MGSV is the only fame in the franchise worth playing, the rest are shitty movies telling some retarded story and gameplay so bad no game tried to replicate it.

>>713402579
Farewell sausage...

>>713403257
>he skipped MGS Mobile
Explains your pleb-tier list desu

>DUDE SOLDIER GENES LMAO
Reminder that there's people who unironically followed MGS for the plot when even COD games have more consistent writing.
Special mentions to the terrible names of all characters.

there are actual people who will buy MG games that arnt made by Kojima

I like fucking around in africa thats it

>Skullface was right

>>713400439 (OP)
>make game
>focus on gameplay instead of cutscenes
>get mad
This is why MGSfags are the worst fanbase of all, second only to the Undertale trannies.

>>713403861
Yes

>>713403830
The problem with the plot is every game since 2 was meant to be the last title so it introduces a bunch of inconsistencies
>dude ocelot was pretending to be liquid
>snake was left with a deadly virus that could activate at any time? forget about it
>raiden wants to live a normal life oh wait he becomes a cyborg
>everything to do with skullface

Why did Snake rescue a bunch of African children instead of just gunning them down like he was paid to do? Why can't he kill child soldiers?

>>713404316
Because no company wants to release "that game about murdering children"

>>713404407
Then why include child soldiers at all?

>>713404458
Kojima wanted to and likely had to make concessions.
Plus I think letting players explicitely murder kids results in an AO rating, and no online store allows the sale of AO games

>>713404571
The problem is the concessions just end up making the game worse. Having to avoid killing child soldiers or just rescuing random kids is completely out of character for Kaz and Snake at that point in time.

They had gone full gloves off morally but suddenly this one thing is too far. They should have just been removed entirely.

>>713404936
Venom never does anything morally bad.
Hell, he's a better person than Big Boss.

>>713404316
Are you really this stupid or you're just an average swamp nigger?

>>713401365
It's gotten a little better with PW and V. Big Boss admitting to the boss that he was a terrible person who only made the world worse has some extra punch.

>>713400439 (OP)
You're even madder if you play ground zeroes. Ground Zeroes, I believe really showed what Kojima wanted to do with the game. How extremely dynamic and different it is based on time & weather. Having guard patrols, and shifts. Sensible transports in and out the base etc. I believe our master autist Kojima wanted to make an entire game like that, Konami saw the budget that was gonna take and finally told him to fuck clean off. So from time to time I like to imagine what it would have been like, if the entire game had Ground Zeroes level of detail and flexibility.

>>713404316
He trained them to become his soldiers.

>>713405798
He wasted so much money on the open world meme and developing a new engine. It should have just been a collection of GZ style maps built on an existing engine.

>>713405798
You almost got it but you're wrong. GZ was the canvas for what MGSV was supposed to be but Kojimbo got and I quote "depressed" after playing GTAV to the point he had to re-do MGSV, which made Konami lost a lotta cash.

>>713406034
The man is an author, a Tarantino. You can't just ask Tarantino to make a sony movie, with product placement and within the confines of someone elses script. You give him money, and let him do art. You can't just tell him to "use an existing engine" or "stay within budget" you're lucky if you can convince him that a boss fight being a real life sniper battle, which might take several real life days to get a chance of a clear shot is actually retarded.

>>713406090
lmao.

>>713405798
>>713406034
>>713406090
This is what exposes the millennials the most, they actually think that 20 minute long turbo casual trash was good.
>How extremely dynamic and different it is based on time & weather
LMAO what the fuck am I reading, there's nothing dynamic, it's 100% scripted.
Look at Hitman if you want to see how it's done without being a mindless casual piece of trash with a COD MP map where you can get away with sprinting everywhere.

>>713406505
Bait.

>>713406505
Are you retarded? Of course the timing and weather are scripted, it's clear from the context here that the "dynamic" part being reffered to, is how the different times and weathers drastically change the game, on the spot.

>>713406679
Yes, understandable reaction from the MGS casual who thinks COD regenerating health is good.
There's a reason why Hitman lives on and MFS is dead.

>>713406730
> is how the different times and weathers drastically change the game, on the spot.
Except they don't.
Daytime gives guards better sight, that's it.

>>713406782
You just quoted me to bait me, my comment had nothing to do with what you're saying. Sorry pal, not falling for it.

There's a reason why MGSV keeps getting compilation videos and has maintained a steady playerbase for a decade.
It's the only one that's an actual videogame.

>>713406034
MGSV cost 80 million, had a new, greatly optimized engine and barely wasted my time with poinyless cutscenes.
Meanwhile MGS4 was 90% cutscenes, what little gameplay there was sucked and cost 70 million.
MGSV also sold more than twice what MGS4 did

It's MGS4 the one where he wasted money.

>>713407289
By ignoring the fact that MGS4 is console locked and MGSV arrived on 5 platforms.

>>713407393
Yeah that's another one, MGSV had to be ported to 5 platforms, MGS4 didn't.
That just makes MGS4 look even worse.

>>713407465
And also explains how it sold. But when the next collection arrives we can see how it sales.

>Literally the whole point of the game is that you play as the villain
>You save starving African children instead
What is this shit?

>>713407559
And I'm also talking about budgets, that shut you MGSfags have been going on about for a decade.

>But when the next collection arrives we can see how it sales.
As bas as the first one because nobody cares about MGS anymore.

I'm trying to platinum it right now, a quiet exit fucking sucks

>>713407623
>Literally the whole point of the game is that you play as the villain
No it's not.

>>713407623
>Starving african children
Play the game, goyim.

>>713400761
V is a good game for the first hour maybe. After that it becomes so repetitive and empty that you wish the map was actually linear like 4 or the previous games

>>713407726
No I don't. I have 1100 hours on MGSV, meanwhile I never replayed the other MGS games

>>713407717
Yes, it is. The whole marketing was based around the fact you play as the villain

>>713407881
And it lied.

>>713407623
>Red band trailer implies you gun down the African kids for money
>Character blurb basically states you've become a villain
>Actually you save them :)

>>713407726
It's amazing how people who lack creativity found MGSV boring. People who can actually be creative can have lots and lots of fun playing the game.

>>713404265
The problem with the plot is that it's stupid, there's billions of cutscenes and it just won't stop shoving cutscenes down your throat.
Thank god MGS is dead.

>>713400439 (OP)
I have never spent as much time theory crafting with any other game than this. I'm happy about coming to my own conclusion(s) and letting it rest from there.

>>713400439 (OP)
Played through recently for the first time in maybe three years, had fun. I'm over it being unfinished.

What's there is solid fun.

get the fuck over it you faggots

>>713400439 (OP)
Same

>>713407925
And Kojima is a nigger for doing so

>>713408089
impressive, very nice now let's see anon's biggest let down

>>713400439 (OP)
Goodness, has it really been 10 years...? What the hell. It doesnt seem that long ago I was in those threads. The schizo theories, the "MGSV feels like the FINAL video game" because the industry was getting worse but MGS never disappoints, we have at least one final video game before it all went to shit. Yet 10 years have passed and Im still here.

>>713408089
They can't, these millennials had Kojima as their father figure and spent so much time making hecking wholeso e theories about how hecking brave Quiet being a tranny is and instead of a movie they got a videogame.
The worst betrayal to a millennial, having no plot to hecking discuss.

Mgs4 is a decent enough 10 hour long game with a plot that leads up to something. Mgsv is a 150 hour experience that leads to nothing and is repetitive the open world is meaningless

>>713408131
No, Kojima promised another shitty movie and we got a videogame.
For once he made what he's supposed to and also BTFO his follower bade of fags who think storytelling should be in games.

>>713400523
Nah. MGS4 was great. Sure there could be more gameplay, but what is there is great. I was satisfied with the story resolutions too.
>MGS1
Masterpiece
>MGS2
Masterpiece
>MGS3
Masterpiece
>MGS4
Masterpiece
>Peacewalker
Has its moments, but this is when the series dipped, still good in its own way and it can be forgiven for the mobile nature of being a PSP game
>MGSV
this is where actual disappointment settled in

>>713408334
Go play bing bing wahoo, nigger

>>713408340
>MGS1
>masterpiece
>utter trash gameplay
>every boss fight is an easily cheesable gimmick
>most retarded story ever in videogames

It still has some of the best trailers ever made.

>WEEEE ARREE NOT YOUR KIND OF PEEEOOPLE
>I'M NUUUUUUCCCCCLLLLLEEEEEEEAAAAAAR
>WOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH WOOOOAAAAAHHHHHHHhHhHhHhHhHwHwHwH

>>713408484
>shitting on MGS1
Get out of here fake fan.

>>713408340
>movies good
>games bad
Thank god this franchise died.

>>713408380
Yes, games are for playing, not for watching and making hecking tranny theories about it.
Now I'm sure there's a Deltarune thread for you in the catalog.

>>713408340
>I was satisfied with the story resolutions too.
Stopped reading here. Your opinion is worthless. MGS 4 is sub capeshit quality.

>>713408581
it wasnt anything like a superhero movie, you didnt play the game and just repeating what random youtubers said. Its okay Anon it will be on steam soon and you can actually play it

>>713408571
The only tranny here is you. You're so buttblased by a viddy game you start raving about pol shit, literal tranny behavior.

>Chuddies are now calling MGS1 shit
The damage influencers and YT channels like Gaming Sins have done to people born after 98 it's beyond sad. Should be considered as a war crime.

>>713408680
>it wasnt anything like a superhero movie
The memberberries fanservice would make Avengers movies blush.
It's literally "Turn your brain off and point at the references": The game.
You being satisfied by that tells me all you need to know.
>B-b-b-but what about Old Snake?!
A good idea that was completely lost in the fanservice.

>>713400439 (OP)
It's like you feel a sort of... Phantom Pain(tm) if you will...
Truly Kamikaze is a creative genius

Death Stranding 2 is MGS6

>>713408567
I played these games a year ago, MGS1 is a legitimately low IQ game.
Not only guards can't see you if you are more than 5 feet away from them, but it also features a top down camera for some reason when stealth games are about situational awareness.

And the fucking plot feels written by a kid
>every soldier going on about the "Hurr my place is on the battlefield" nonsense
>"Soldier genes" don't think I need to explain why this is utterly retarded
>Liquid's entire motivation is that he has no clue how genetics work
Absolutely retarded game, no clue how this franchise didn't die with this game.

>>713401674
>4bab thinking anyone puts 4 in the same category as the actual trilogy
Cute.

>>713408783
Having a resolution to so many unanswered questions requires them on touching the subjects relevant to past games. You are just insecure and feel like the game in insulting you when its just trying to tell a story. Seek therapy

>>713408853
zoom zoom brain no work, zoom zoom need video essay

>>713400523
5 could have redeemed 4 and made Zero turning into a megalomaniac make sense, but instead it was all about a bunch of original character donut steel bullshit like Skull Face, Quiet, and Otacon's fucking dad. None of Kojima's decisions after MGS3 made any sense.

>>713401658
>Muh soulless fanservice
People were literally upset at paramedic and sigint becoming patriots despite that making total sense at the end of 3. They claimed shit like that was nonsensical fanservice desires being wrong. People also claim all sorts of retarded things about Kojima's intent with characters or plot points in MGSV and death standing while having absolutely no proof or argument, just inserting their own interpretations as absolute fact. Make an argument yourself rather than relying on almost 2 decades of discussion that we should supposedly be caught up on and buy into.

>>713408853
yeah you are brainbroken and live on the internet

>>713408954
I'm 29.
MGS' plot is utterly stupid, no idea how Kojima made a living out of writing.
This guy can't even write anyone that sounds human.

>>713409057
Nice argument.

>>713408997
>Ocelot pretends to be liquid
He's doing that since MGS2, fucking wanker.

>>713408926
>Having a resolution to so many unanswered questions
Ah, yes, very important questions like "What is the guy shitting himself doing?" or "How can we make the Liquid Arm plot point completely unsatisfying?" or "What's the best way of raping the MGS 3 codec team's characterization?" or ""How do we make The Patriots boring and simpler to explain, since I can't come up with anything that actually follows through well on MGS 2's godlike ending". Those sorts of resolutions.

The TV show LOST has better resolutions than MGS 4 did.

MGS 4 literally, and I mean LITERALLY reads like fanfiction. If anyone grabbed MGS 4's shit script and leaked it years in advance, they would have been laughed at out of the building. But because Kojima had the high budget cinematics and the epic fanservice, brainlets got fooled into thinking they were watching anything that followed cogently from the previous games.

You disgust me.

>>713409079
Not the game's fault you are too autistic to enjoy dialogue and view everything in an internet meme lens. Stick to Saints Row or something

>>713408997
>doesn't have to resort to showing children to be serious
Is this implying MGS1 is serious?
The fucking game feels like a cartoon show.
Also, is this Fukushima the guy who came up with the retarded Soldier genes crap, or Liquid wanting to nuke the USA because he's a moron who skipped genetics class?

>>713408997
>5 could have redeemed 4
Fucking how? It's a prequel. It was never gonna be able to undo the damage 4 did as the supposed end of the series.
And let's assume you're right for a second. Hating on a game because it didn't manage to elevate the absolute trash material of the previous game is fine, but that's still more of a reason to hate on the previous game more.

>>713409145
there is no saving autists like you. You just need to be put down

>>713408852
I thought the first one was 6

>>713408852
MGSV is MGS6, PW is MGSV

>>713409165
No, I can't enjoy shit like a veteran soldier going
>I-I can`t believe data analysts can be so cute
or anyone seriously implying someone's skills as a soldier are genetic.

>Stick to Saints Row or something
Ah yes, another dead franchise.

>>713409145
>The TV show LOST has better resolutions than MGS 4 did.

looooool

Fuck off

>>713400439 (OP)
This game is a masterpiece. Sorry to hear about your shit taste, OP.

>>713408997
>campiness
>good
I'll never get this crap.
You have a game about military ordeals and people ask for it to be stupid, it's like those people who demand MCU quips and ironic humor everywhere.
Entire goddamn franchise is plagued with the most retarded humor ever.

>>713409145
TRVKE

>>713400523

>>713409729
A classic.
Meanwhile, an anon in this thread:
>How is 4 a mess? Genuinely have never heard anybody saying this explain why.
This is how stupid 4fags think we are.

>>713400439 (OP)
It's a good game

>>713409145
>"What's the best way of raping the MGS 3 codec team's characterization?"
nothing about the characterization was "raped". it makes total sense that paramedic and sigint and zero all become villains. they were a small team that were aware of the philosopher's legacy. why would they even be allowed to live if they WEREN'T in on it all?
>noooo my qt3.14 paramedic who likes to watch kaiju movies can't be evil, she just can't!!!
>and zero was my bro who loved james bond! no one who loves james bond can be an evil man!
complaining about this just shows you are an autist with black and white thinking that does not jive well with geopolitical thrillers where every side is a muddied grey.

>>713410268
You can try to pretend it isn't an obvious retcon all you want. Kojima admitted that for him the end of the series was MGS 2. That's in fact why he had to go back as a prequel to MGS 3. But retarded fans wanted answers he didn't have, so he had to pull bad ones off of his ass. I'm never seeing MGS 4 for anything other than what it is. Superficial pandering and fanfiction tier explanations that gets the brainlets hollering.

>>713410493
>no argument
concession status: ACCEPTED

>>713409729
the scenes with BB and Snake where he's not just rattling off exposition are kino desu

>>713410557
The argument is that Kojima retconned this shit poorly and you're trying to justify it post-hoc. This is even more evident with Raiden where his arc in MGS 2 was very well realized and Kojima had to remake a new nonsensical arc (He's getting cucked, he's suffering, but wait, no, it was all a ruse, the colonel was on his side all this time lmao)

>>713410759
>The argument is that Kojima retconned this shit poorly
that's a claim, not an argument.

>>713410818
And your argument for why this isn't a retcon is "Ok, but it could have happened!"
Yes, anon, I'm sure when Kojima did MGS 2, he also already had in mind that Revolver Ocelot was using nanomachines and psychoteraphy to transplant Liquid''s personality onto his own, which ould fool the patriots which were actually a completely unmanned genius-level AI into not worrying about him. None of this is Kojima pulling shit out of his ass to distract you while he moves you from one fan service "Leo pointing" scene to the next. I'm just being silly.

>>713410493
Progression in story isnt a retcon. There is nothing retconned on Snake's codec team eventually going bad

>>713410994
>"Ok, but it could have happened!"
no, the argument is that the mgs3 support team would have been killed if they weren't in on the world controlling machinations. knowing about the legacy and being part of operation snake eater puts you in a "you are either with us or against us" situation. also
>sure BIG BOSS turned into a bad guy, but obviously the rest of the team remained good ol boys, american military can do no wrong :^)
everyone involved in operation snake eater was a bad guy, but no one thinks of themselves as a bad guy. this is what i meant when i called you an autist with black and white thinking not being able to understand a geopolitical thriller where every side is a muddied grey.
>I'm sure when Kojima did MGS 2, he also already had in mind that Revolver Ocelot was using nanomachines and psychoteraphy to transplant Liquid''s personality onto his own, which ould fool the patriots which were actually a completely unmanned genius-level AI into not worrying about him. None of this is Kojima pulling shit out of his ass to distract you while he moves you from one fan service "Leo pointing" scene to the next. I'm just being silly.
ah yes, the silly stuff of MGS4 makes less sense than... a ghost taking over a guy through a transplanted arm or an immortal ganguro girl. it's all silly, the only reason you are mad at mgs4 is because you started to grow up and wanted metal gear to mature with you. it stayed the same, you changed. despite changing, you did not really mature. you are still here, complaining about the game almost 20 years after the fact for not being what you wanted, like a petulant child.

>>713411797
>the only reason you are mad at mgs4 is because you started to grow up and wanted metal gear to mature with you.
No, anon. The reason why I'm mad at MGS 4 is because it had nothing to offer other than fanservice. Death Stranding is flawed but at least it actually has a vision. MGS 4 is blatantly a band with nothing new to say playing its old hits. Nothing about the plot is cogent with the rest of the series because there was obviously never gonna be a sequel to MGS 2 and yet Kojima felt the need to tie a knot that was already tied. This is why the whole game is endless stupid retcons trying to make sense of the whole series by tying everything into nanomachines. Yet the only actual content of note is the surface level shit like Big Boss having a very convenient hollow excuse to get revived so that he could drop 20 minutes of exposition on Snake and then have a hug with him. Or Rex and Ray fighting against each other. Or

MGS 1, MGS 2 and MGS 3 have aged well. Did you know MGS 4 has better reviews than MGS 1 and 3? You probably didn't. When it came out, people were really trying to pretend this was anywhere near the level of the other games. Now, it's not seen in the same tier. And there's a very obvious reason why. It doesn't stand up by itself. It doesn't add anything to the series. It's just pointless fanservice that doesn't stick. So, to me, the absolute kicker is when someone goes "MGS 4 had a satisfying resolution". If that were the case, MGS 4 wouldn't continue being the controversial title of the series like V is. Everyone looks fondly on 2 now despite all the controversy. 4 will never get this treatment. It's a hollow shell of the series. Fanfiction tier.

>>713412253
MGS4 is on the level of MGS1-3

>>713412943
Whatever you say, little buddy. Keep repeating it, another 17 years and someone might finally believe it.

>>713413129
I'm not suggesting this is you, by the way. Just pointing out how the MGS 4 fanbase has to be this defensive about liking this bad game. There's an obvious reason for that. MGS 1, 2 and 3 threads don't start like that lol

>>713413129
>gigachad poster
the kiss of death

>>713408853
I hope you get cancer

>>713401658
based

>>713409729
>Assassin's Creed
Did you buy HIS game /v/?

>>713409624
>1 month 4 weeks
Holy fuck lad, go outside.

>>713407016
The other games are getting plenty of videos too, hell randomizers were recently made for MGS1-3

>>713408016
Cutscenes were never the problem, its the retcons

>>713402579
Sayonara pigskin

>>713412253
MGS4 has such a great premise, I could never hate it
>snake returns as a weaker, older soldier who is forced to go on a final mission to assassinate ocelot and finally put an end to the world threatening patriots
>world has changed drastically with new technology and weapons that snake can barely keep up with, literally moves forward through sheer determination
>boss group aren't the charismatic and cool villains like in previous games but instead mentally broken killers that border on animalistic and unnerving

>>713400523
I'm still mad about the Ocelot just pretending to be Liquid all along. Such a pointless retcon for a series where ghosts literally exist.

>>713407981
Too bad there isn't content to justify getting creative