I've got to hand it to you, /v/. You somehow convinced me to waste 120 hours of my life reading this garbage. I can't believe the ending was somehow worse than Umineko's.

nippa~

>>713468086 (OP)
"Trains don't grin" may be my favorite line in anything ever of all time

I want to take Rena home with me

Reminder that Joseph Anderson looked up the identity of the culprit in Umineko and then tried to work it out backwards, but since he's not intelligent enough to formulate the beginnings of his theory he just pretends to guess blindly and then complains that it's bullshit, even though there's dozens of hints and clues scattered throughout the novel.

>>713469937
Joseph Anderson is a pseud, yes. But the solution to Umineko is also total bullshit.

Keichi is an idiot for not hitting that Sonozaki ass when he had the chance.

>>713469937
cool, this is a higurashi thread thougheverbeit

>>713468086 (OP)
No ending is worse than Umineko's. No amount of "LMAO HOME ALONE!" will negate the fact that Umineko's ending is an insult to the reader and the entire story.

>>713469937
>>713470190
Qrd on the Joseph Anderson playthrough?

>>713470527
Normalfag secondaries who watch streamers spamming the board.

>>713470527
He liked the questions arc quite a lot, but has largely disliked the answers arc so far, especially episode 5, making umifans in community very mad, which is funny to see. He's currently on episode 7.

>>713470669
That's very funny, got some highlights or screenshots? I might have to dig the archives to catch up on that...

>>713468086 (OP)
>120 hours
Jesus fucking christ dude, are you illiterate? This took me like 50 hours to get through and I'm not a particularly fast reader.

i hate how they have to explain everything

>>713470527
The man who struggled to understand a story as simple as Silent Hill 2 is now """reading""" Umineko, with the VA and sound effects turned off and the music barely audible, while pretending that he didn't get spoiled on it but constantly slipping up during discussions with his chat and on Twitter by revealing information he cannot possibly know at that point in time, to which is fanboys react with "he's just so smart that he already figured it out!" while simultanously calling everything bullshit with no foreshadowing.

TLDR he's a pseud faggot retard

>>713468086 (OP)
If you didn't read the WTC series in order you didn't properly read any of them.

>>713470878
>revealing information he cannot possibly know at that point in time
I beg you to give me a few examples so I don't have to watch hours of this because it sounds really funny

>>713470669
To elaborate, he's still enjoying reading Umineko despite liking the answer arcs quite a bit less than the question arcs which is a pretty normal experience. I'm curious to see if he stands by his opinion that the feeling of "There's a mystery that I can conceivably solve" died in episode 5 or if he walks it back the more he reads.

>>713470734
This channel uploads all his twitch vods. Here's a clip of him raging at the mystery and Erika: https://youtu.be/LtBGoxlhZvc?si=ttNeRaiM7DH09ClG&t=17694

>>713470995
It's so fucking funny to see a true pseud like him flail around helplessly when confronted with a story like this. He literally cannot grasp even the simplest metaphors, it's all surface level reading all the time for him. Not to mention that he absolutely refuses to get immersed, he reads this VN like it's a gacha game sidequest on his phone.

>>713470945
He keeps talking about the identity of the culprit without ever confirming his "theory" (again, he just keeps pretending to guess, he has no actual theory) in a way that makes it really obvious that he got spoiled on it sometime around the ending of EP3 or beginning of EP4. If you recall the content, it's definitely possible to make a solid culprit theory at this point, but actually 100% confirming it is practically impossible until the second half of EP4.

Good evening gentlemen I want to fuck Rika

>>713471206
He's the real life version of the strawman Ryukishi had in his mind when writing Umineko, the cognitive dissonance when he gets to the ending and realizes the entire answers arc has been laughing in his face the entire time but feels like he has to dickride the game to appease his discord girlfriend is gonna be pure kino. What a payoff to nearly a year of streams.

>>713469937
there is 0% chance he looked it up, the most simple explanation why he gets everything right is just because he feels it out through the chat

>>713471458
I think R07 is a retard but I still will enjoy this

>>713471540
He literally had the browser tab open for the Umineko Wiki for EP6 back when he was still reading EP4. It got caught during the first few seconds of one of his streams and when some people called him out on it he deleted them off his Discord.

>>713471206

>It's so fucking funny to see a true pseud like him flail around helplessly when confronted with a story like this.
Sorry to burst your bubble, dude, but Umineko is garbage and you're delusional if you think it's anywhere near good literature. Yes, Joe is dumb, but so is Umineko.

>>713471458
Will his e-girl make him read Higurashi too?

>>713470995
He's actually right here lmao, the rule about LARP identity switch is inconsistent and dumb

>>713471634
I want to see your source on this

>>713471432
In his defense, he never 100% committed and said "This is definitely the culprit", he's been pretty non-committal and even entertained the thought that his theory about Shkanon was wrong as soon as he saw them in the same room in episode 5 (too much of a brainlet to realize at the time that Battler was no longer a reliable narrator). I think he worked out his theory by process of elimination and vague meta guesses (plus I think he may of gotten semi-spoiled by some fanart he showed on stream, at least subconsciously), which is all you really need to correctly "guess" the culprit but as you say there's no way to actually confirm it with solid evidence until the answer arcs which might make Joe mad.

>>713471458
The worst Umineko readers are the ones who think figuring out the identity of the culprit is all there is to the mystery. Since he's a retarded pseud he thinks everything else is just "fluff".

>>713471651
Higurashi has way too much loli shit for Joe to read it.

>>713471651
no, she got filtered by Higurashi

Are these streams even still successful? 150h of bad VN can't be good for you

>>713471648
So he's double retarded for not understanding it?

>>713471651
Sort of, I think he mentioned that they were reading it together off stream. Not sure if they'll finish it. It doesn't sound like he has any interest in streaming it.

Worth noting that, iirc, she joined his community via his april fools Higurashi stream last year (two years ago? don't remember) so she's probably already familiar with it.

>>713471692
>Since he's a retarded pseud he thinks everything else is just "fluff".
Everything else IS fluff, though. It's just Ryukishi self-masturbating for hours on end about how he is very smart while mystery fiction authors he dislikes are evil.

>>713471748
5 months in and somehow they're still his highest viewed streams, but they've dropped in views a lot compared to when he first started.

>story hammers you over the head again and again that the Red Truth can be abused in all kinds of ways
>"t-the story fooled me! how dare Ryukishi!"
The fact that the Red is there as a crutch and a guideline to begin with is so fucking funny. It's like complaining about receiving a hint and still not being able to figure it out.

>>713471869
>he thinks Ryukishi dislikes mystery writers
What a fundamental misunderstanding of the work.

>>713468086 (OP)
Why do people force themselves to read things they're not enjoying? I was hooked on this VN all the way from part 1. If you're not enjoying it just drop it. I've dropped too many VNs to count. Is it OCD?

>>713471686
it's pretty weird that he doesn't seem to have realized that Lion is supposed to be Shkanon yet desu

>>713468086 (OP)
DO NOT click this if you're an Umineko fan who thinks the mystery is actually solvable

>>713468086 (OP)
K1 is a great protagonist, but I didn't give a fuck about Rika or any of that shit starting from Chapter 7 so suffice to say it ended up doing nothing for me at the end.

>>713471905
he'd get way more views if he streamed some other semi popular weebshit

>>713472076
First day on /v/? Half the thread is talking about an infamously retarded e-celeb, you think this is the place to have any kind of genuine discussion?

I haven't read higurashi in years. Why is there so many versions of it now?

>>713471713
This and half of every chapter being mostly slice of life stuff is a great filter too

>>713472035
He clearly has an axe to grind against writers who don't value the "whydunnit" as much as he does, or stories which adhere to the "rules" like Knox's

why would you read a VN if there's a well regarded anime adaptation?
I mean maybe if you were a fan...

>>713472107
There's been people who solved the core mystery of Umineko back when EP1 originally released.

>>713472209
I'm not so sure. Umineko has a reputation in his fanbase as the first successful "weebs' gambit" aka the first "weeb" video game that Joe actually thinks has a good story. That reputation is probably a big reason why people are still showing up to the streams even after all this time. People are thoroughly invested to see if it sticks the landing and Joe finally says "This Japanese video game had a good story" for once.

>>713472258
After reading "And Then There Were None" I can sympathize with that attitude. It was really dry and uninteresting. At least it was short.

>>713472305
It looks like you didn't click the spoilered pic, as commanded. Nicely done, uminegro

>>713472258
Anti-Mystery and Meta-Mystery honkaku have been around since the fucking 40s. Ryukishi clearly has a love for Golden Age mystery, the entirety of Umineko is filled with it.

>>713472487
>Anti-Mystery and Meta-Mystery honkaku
In English, doc.

>caring about the opinion of a self-declared "anti weeb" pseud faggot who couldn't even understand the story of Silent Hill 2

>>713472432
That's the problem. Ryukishi and his retarded fans will read one or two Agatha Christie novels and conclude that the entire canon of golden age detective fiction is like that. I have never encountered a mystery fan or author who thinks the whydunnit isn't important. But Ryukishi sure makes a lot of time to let you know how bad they are through Erika.

>>713472536
https://jmystery.fandom.com/wiki/Anti-Mystery

It's a fairly well known genre in japanese mystery literature and is often mentioned by Ryukishi when he talks about Umineko.

>>713468086 (OP)
>Another poster that fell for R07 slop

>people itt actually think Joe is smart and not just a lolcow

https://youtu.be/0lhy9QnBHmo

>>713472680
>Reddit;Gate

>>713472258
Funnily enough, R07 praises the whydunnit but wrote Genji, a retarded robot who would gladly kill dozens of innocents and kids, then himself, for a tranny's stupid delusions.

Very interesting!

>>713470995
he's right though, there's a reason why Umineko wasn't as popular as Higurashi.

>>713472663
Hey, I never said they're all like that, I read that one specifically because it was referenced so much in Umineko. My main takeaway was "Man, Agatha Christie sucks." and "Women can't write for shit."

>>713472881
Because Higurashi is much closer to japanese daily life and plays into the nostalgia of rural childhood experiences. That and all the girls are children and teens.

Can someone explain this to me?
Why didn't Hanyuu, over the course of the century she and Rika were stuck in the loop, just watch Tomitake and Takano to see how they died?

>>713472771
>I don't know what Pyramid Head is
13 year old emo kids at the time could figure this shit out and he can't?

>>713472862
Yeah the mediocre supporting cast really kills the whole "duhh why do people only care about the how and not the why" autism Ryukishi posits. I didn't give a shit about anyone but Battler and Beato for the entire game, and by the end I had basically zero "love" for the cast so I have no real idea what the point of the story was.

>>713473043
because r07 is a shit writer, next question

>>713473074
>I didn't give a shit about anyone but Battler and Beato for the entire game
I don't think Umineko is that great, but I think you have to be one weird guy to not be invested in a character like Rosa or Eva.

>>713473180
NTA but Eva is trash and objectively a horrible person the story tries to whitewash with little success
Rudolf, Hideyoshi, Eva, Krauss, they're fine though.

The issue isn't that the rest of the cast sucks, it's that 1. They're underused and 2. They can't make up for some DISASTROUS writing choices

>>713472771
You can see his obsession with what people say in chat so clearly in this video. Like he genuinely believes Mary wasn't in the hospital because one guy in chat told him so, even though the evidence is right there in front of his face.

>>713473180
I'm being a bit flippant, yeah, they weren't literally all I cared about but I cared about everyone significantly less and most I didn't care about at all. Rosa and Maria were the only two characters I was emotionally invested in (still substantially less than Battler/Beato), Natsuhi and Eva's backstories were pretty stirring but I didn't emotionally connect to them at all or care about what happened to them, and basically all of the men are just kinda there.

>>713473301
A character being a horrible person has nothing to do with being invested in them as a reader.

>>713473043
anti-magic toxin

>>713472771
Jesus, I had never seen this before.

>>713473387
Sure, but if you hate a character then you're probably going to care about them a lot less. Miyo is an abhorrent sack of fucking garbage, so by the end of Higurashi I truly did not give a rats ass about her backstory. If you make a character reprehensible and annoying to listen to or look at, you can make their backstory as interesting as you want but a lot of people are still going to bounce off of them. Writing a character that's a piece of shit but still charismatic in a "love to hate them" kind of way is very difficult and imo Ryukishi fails horribly with Eva.

>>713472771
>He sounds like the type of person who thinks Pulp Fiction is bad because it doesn't show or explain what's in the briefcase.
Nailed it lmao. He will piss and shit himself in anger at the finale of Umineko, proving Ryukishi right once again by making fun of people like him.

>>713473387
A character being a shit person while being called a good guy who dindu nothing wrong by the story and the characters they tortured makes that character bad and egregious

>>713473568
You're conflating several things here. There's a difference between hating a character because they're annoying and retarded, and hating a character who is intentionally written that way and serves a higher theme or other goal in being presented as unlikeable.
>>713473740
This never happens.

>>713470527
He and the chat where shocked to learn that the Ushiromiya crest is an altered version of a fictional version of a facist symbol that looks NOTHING like the actual irl thing

>>713473703
>proving Ryukishi right once again by making fun of people like him.
Proving what right? That people will be mad if you write a story without a satisfactory ending? Oh wow, he sure showed those readers

>>713472771
>WHAT IS SUBTEXT? WHAT IS A FUGUE STATE? DISASSOCIATION? SOUNDS LIKE A MYTH. SYMBOLISM IS BAD. EVERYTHING IN ART HAS TO BE LITERAL. THE PURITANS WERE RIGHT. READ MY THEMATICALLY MALNOURISHED SCI-FI 'FICTION' PLEASE. DAVID WHO? HOW DO YOU FIGURE EXPLICIT PLOT POINTS OUT? I HID EM WID A SORD BRO

>>713473830
It happens, retard. Ange and Okonogi say Eva was a good person after all, just misunderstood. I already posted dozens of screenshots showing the horrific, cartoon levels of abuse Eva put a 6 year old girl through in previous threads.

Just like Takano. R07 is a huge retard and can't stop redeeming his characters without any reason or logic. He even made the demon Higanbana a softie. This is shit

>>713473868
>but what's in the briefcase??

>>713473830
>There's a difference between hating a character because they're annoying and retarded, and hating a character who is intentionally written that way and serves a higher theme or other goal in being presented as unlikeable.
Are you Ryukishi irl? Did you learn English, Ryukishi san?

"Uhhhh he wrote her to be an annoying sack of shit on purpose", yeah nice analysis, no shit. I'm saying that a reader can and likely will still respond to a character less emotionally if they just don't like the character, so have fun intentionally writing a character to be hated but don't be surprised when readers generally dislike them and don't really care much about their backstory or how they serve the greater narrative.

>>713472862
>Genji
all of the male characters other than Battler and maybe episode 7 Kinzo are underdeveloped

>>713474061
>Ange and Okonogi say Eva was a good person after all
No they don't. At no point does the story say "Eva was a good person". Having empathy for someone who lashes out due to getting absolutely fucked is not the same as saying that the act of lashing out was good to begin with.

>>713474162
woke game

>>713474116
You're going to bounce off of a lot of literature with that attitude. Like, a lot.

>wake up
>write in diary about how much i hate natsuhi
>take a shower
>use scented shampoo that natsuhi mentioned she doesn't like
>make breakfast for my lovely husband and wonderful son
>am an actual witch of the kitchen unlike natsuhi who is only the head and relies on servants to make food
>take flight and boat to rokkenjima to see my brother and father
>start thinking of which of my 10,000 offhanded insults to use in each conversation i expect to have with natsuhi
>shannon is the one to greet us instead of genji
>get into the mansion, sit down with krauss and natsuhi in the parlor
>mention how the way guests are treated on the island must be a lot more casual to have someone like shannon greet us
>see jessica
>comment on how her outfit looks especially good today, and how much she probably wanted her mother to notice (she didn't)
>bring up george's outstanding grades when jessica's come up
>do everything in my power to make sure natsuhi has the biggest headache by the time i leave

>>713474190
Yo dude I'm actually writing a story right now, it's about a guy who rapes infants to death for half of the book, then the other half is about how he was abused as a child growing up. I've had some people tell me it sounds like a terrible book, but they just don't get that he's written to be a bad guy on purpose to challenge the reader. I think you'll be into it, I'll dm you a link to download the pdf

>>713473703
>He sounds like the type of person who thinks Pulp Fiction is bad because it doesn't show or explain what's in the briefcase.
Every mysteryfag in every Umineko thread.

>unironically claiming that Eva is a bad character
I don't like Umineko much but characters like Eva were by far the best thing about it.

>>713474297
Interesting use of language, assuming I don't already read recreationally. Least pretentious Uminegro kek

>>713474343
>completely ignores the "and serves a higher theme or other goal" part
Pseud.

>>713474513
This is 4chan bro, you don't have to sign your posts. The whole point is that we're posting anonymously. Hope that tip helps.

>>713474418
>you're pretentious if you separate intentionally and unintentionally unlikeable characterization

>>713473868
>without a satisfactory ending
The ending was kino. I was satisfied.

>>713468086 (OP)
That was me who convinced you. I can't fix shit taste though. Higurashi has an infinitely more satisfying ending that actually thoroughly explains all the questions in the first half. Umineko just gives up around episode 7 and doesn't explain shit because the author was making it up as he went along.

>>713474190
You fucking retard, ANGE forgave Eva for fuck sake. Eva pretty much killed her in EP4 by the way lmao. Do I need to repost all the shitty screencaps? I will

>>713474616
No, you're pretentious for assuming either 1) I don't read books for fun or 2) if I do, I probably dislike a lot of what I read simply because I don't like a shitty character in a fucking visual novel. For a guy who supposedly reads a lot of """literature""" (top zozzle) you sure seem to struggle with reading comprehension.

>>713474576
You constructed a strawman that I saw coming two posts ago and now you're mad that you got called out for it. Grow up.

>>713470995
based opinion. The sperg calling him a pseud is a blind fanboy.

>>713474732
>ANGE forgave Eva for fuck sake
This doesn't mean that Eva was a good person. Maybe stick to YA novels or something.

>>713474768
This nigger has the audacity to call anyone else in the world a pseud when he unironically just said "tch, I saw that argument coming two posts ago" LOOOOOOL

>>713474683
>Higurashi has an infinitely more satisfying ending that actually thoroughly explains all the questions in the first half.
That's true. The only bad part is that all the answers are the lamest possible answers imaginable.

>>713474834
You're a complete idiot if you think Ange forgiving Eva isn't GARBAGE WRITING after shit like pic related

>>713474746
>still can't argue the point
We're done here.
>>713474851
But I did, right here: >>713473830
>a character who is intentionally written that way and serves a higher theme or other goal

Now dilate.

Ryukishi is a hack for not making Keichi and Mion a canon couple all because he wants the Rena waifubait as well.

>>713474948
You're moving the goalpost. You claimed the story was saying that Eva was a good person. That's not the case. You're now complaining about something completely different.

>>713474968
>>>still can't argue the point
There's no argument you sped, are you getting confused? I said I don't like Eva as a character and therefore wasn't very invested in her emotionally, and you were like "heh, you're gonna bounce off of a LOT of literaturekino with that attitude kiddo". Actually the least autistic Uminegro. This is why nobody likes you faggots.

>he keeps reveiling himself by using "Uminegro"
Every time lmao.

>>713468086 (OP)
you didn't take satokos towel away, did you?
https://files.catbox.moe/ygda1h.zip

>>713474851
You write like a zoomer.

>>713475117
Do you think that only one guy in the world uses that pejorative? It's spelled "revealing" btw, maybe you should read actual books instead of visual novels retard.

>Joe fanboys having a melty because they can't accept that their overlord is actually a completely clueless retard
You love to see it.

>>713475039
You're being pedantic on purpose because you can't defend R07's garbage writing. The obvious point is that there is a disconnect between how the story/characters treat this UTTERLY IRREDEEMABLE PIECE OF SHIT and the actual truth the readers can read for themselves

By the way, you were talking about "sticking to YA"? That would still be a higher standard than Umineko. I have never been as embarrassed as reading some Umineko scenes. Pic related. This girl is on a job to kill a teenage girl to inherit billions, but apparently she needs to start spouting LMAOOOO MAGIC while her comically evil bodyguards start laughing to try and make the teenage girl they're about to shoot feel bad or something. R07 can't fucking write to save his life and the only reason you're not seeing this is because you (actually, we), lost 100+ hours reading his shit

>>713475276
>the black suits were also rolling around, guffawing
man ryukishi's prose is such ass, i know it's probably partially a translation thing but i have no idea how people can actually enjoy his shit front-to-back when so many scenes are written like this

>>713474405
Eva is a Litmus test, if you think she's good you're smart enough to pick up R07's attempt at making her a tortured, nuanced character but not smart enough to see how fucking retarded and cartoonishly evil he made her because this nigger can't write without going balls deep into stupid shit

Yes I know she's mourning
No, that doesn't make her well written and a complex human being, that STILL makes her a monster if you have any modicum of common sense

>>713468086 (OP)
this is shit

>>713475484
Funnily enough, I really liked Eva UNTIL episode 4, which made me do a 180 on her.

>>713475585
I'd rather have her be an unapologetic bitch than whatever the fuck R07 tried to pull with her, somewhat successfully considering his readers are complete morons

>>713475276
No you see the scene is good because Ange and Sumadera where just lying about what they saw and said which is why there was magic and actually it was a very quick scene.
Sometimes the magic scenes work but other times it becomes a drag because of how long they take.

>>713475693
what did R07 try to pull with her? that's the whole point of the catbox right, you make your own judgements based off of the information you have to work with.

>>713475372
Instead of hiring professionals to translate his games, he gave official approval to a bunch of amateur fan translators. The terrible prose is a consequence of that.

>>713475276
>pedantic
They're two different issues, surely you can at least admit this much.
>there is a disconnect between how the story/characters treat this UTTERLY IRREDEEMABLE PIECE OF SHIT and the actual truth the readers can read for themselves
Almost like this "disconnect" is a major thematic point of the entire story.
>>713475372
I've read it in japanese and Ryukishi's prose is simply mediocre. A lot of the, let's call it "theatrical" prose he uses is lost in translation, but it's really not that great in the original text either. Interestingly enough, he's pretty good at writing naturalistic dialogue, which is sadly pretty rare in Umineko. For example the scenes with the social worker and Rosa in EP4. But overall he's more like an "idea" kind of guy, and he's good at translating those ideas to the reader, just not in the most entertaining way.

>>713475372
Forget about the prose, can you picture the scene?

>be blacksuit, working for shady boss
>might have to do violent things
>we have to kill a little girl? That sucks but I guess that's the job
>alright I'll beat up the little girl too because I guess we have to
>... wait, why are they talking about candy and magic?
>.... is she debating the soon to be murder victim?
>wow that was a dumb quote.... wait, why is everyone laughing? Is this part of the job? Shit, I have to go along

Is this a fucking joke? Am I supposed to take it seriously?

>>713473043
Because Hanyuu is evil. She did, and refused to tell Rika for dozens of made up reasons.

>>713475276
this was a good scene though and revelead A LOT about lets see...1...2...3...4...5! Different characters that we know

>self-declared anti-weebs and their endless pursuit of "realism" have arrived
This is why e-celebs suck. They bring actual normalfags into the communities that I like.

>>713473043
Real answer: Hanyuu's existence was improvised and retroactively applied to past events. She was never planned to be Rika's friend.

>>713475854
>They're two different issues, surely you can at least admit this much.
They aren't, the issue is the same, the assertion is slightly different ("R07 claimed X was objectively good" vs "R07 treated X as someone who was good despite having absolutely no reason to, through characters that should NEVER do that if we're being realistic for a moment, whitewashing X's crimes and pretending they don't matter when they clearly do, which can very much mean he's claiming X is good")

The finality is similar

>Almost like this "disconnect" is a major thematic point of the entire story.
No that's not the point, that doesn't inform anything about truth and perspective and subjectivity

If anything it goes AGAINST the main point, it reiterates that the story is fucking retarded and tries to pretend someone who acted in cartoonishly evil ways is actually a morally gray human being who deserves empathy and forgiveness. If you have any common sense, even A LITTLE, you'd just call it out for the bullshit it is

>not a single post itt in regards to what Umineko is actually about
Every single time.

>>713476239
it came out over 15 years ago bro if you dont know it thats on you

>>713475812
Eva is not a catbox because we have very reliable, first hand information of what she put Ange through. There isn't that much room for doubt, there isn't that much room for complex dynamics that would let a more nuanced character exist within that story.

No, the story locks in. HARD. It makes sure to hammer down again and again that Eva is shitting on Ange's parents' grave (A FUCKING 6 YEAR OLD LITTLE GIRL WHO LOST HER ENTIRE FAMILY) and torturing Ange, gleefully enjoying herself in the process. And then, 3 episodes later, this hack comes out of his stinking hole and pretends he didn't write that character and that everything is more nuanced than it seemed to be. Well no, fuck you, my brain is working, and I remember all the stupid shit. You can only fool people who didn't pay attention you shitty hack

>>713475817
Japanese readers were already mocking his prose by quoting the infamous Mion vs Okonogi scene.

I like Higurashi, but that was a bad scene, even putting the prose aside.

>>713476164
To be frank, almost everything in the Answers Arc felt post-hoc. Even in episode 5, "Mion" actually being Shion the whole time technically makes sense, but her saying lines like "you should have given me that doll" now feel way less impactful.

>>713476201
In regards to your first point, Ange is not supposed to be a self-insert. Look how much effort it takes for her to at least *consider* that Eva might've had a fucked life as well. Notice how she does NOT whitewash her behavior in any way, and instead argues that she should've changed. There is an emphasis on NOT reinterpreting the status quo, but to learn from it and go forward.
In regards to your second point, yes, magic is about having empathy for anyone. This includes a mass murderer, after all. Whether you like or dislike this message is a different matter, but calling it retarded on principle by citing things that the story neither does nor implies feels disingenuous.

>>713472107
Trvth nvke

>>713476515
What Ryukishi always gets wrong with his "villains" is that the cruelty never has a point, the cruelty is the point. They just do heinous shit so you hate them, then he assumes giving them motives will challenge the reader or, better yet, make them sympathize with the villain. This is reinforced by the fact that other characters in the text tend to at least express some sympathy for the villain if not forgive them outright. It's just immature writing from an immature person.

>>713476743
if you think pic rel isn't the tightest shit then get out of my face

>what do you mean this story which spends 100 hours on trying to convey the full depth and weight and difficulty of empathy humbly asks me to consider my feelings towards a character who did something evil??

>>713476886
anon, don't look up what japanese people are coping with as war "heroism"

>>713472680
Higurashi is better than Steins;Gate in every way.

I'm so glad to see all the r07 cocksuckers finally getting shit on for the fake intellectuals they are. Umineko had a flop ending and no one has ever explained using text from the story how it was solvable. The truth is that r07 didn't know how to finish the story so he asked his fans to imagine it.

>>713474162
Remember how Rudolf dogeza'd in front of Battler to try to make up with him for... remarrying after his wife's death? His own son?

3 volumes later, the author wants me to accept that guy is perfectly fine with murdering everyone, including said son, for a quicker payout. Nice character writing!

And yes, the 7th Tea Party is also complete bullshit. There was more than enough money to solve everyone's problems short term and the gold would have been enough for the long run regardless of how they split it. R07 was too dumb to change the numbers to make it so that they'd have a decent incentive to kill their entire family and gamble their entire life for that.

Please, do not try to make sense of them coming back from the accident that killed their entire family with a credit card containing millions of dollars, suddenly fixing all their money issues and refusing to tell anyone what happened there. Just accept it!

>>713476886
>scene literally spells it out the reason for her behavior down to the smallest detail, both in the narrative and from the perspective of the victim
>"it doesn't have a point"
Read nigga, read.

>>713477003
I can take some character wank and shining moment but a little girl shouldn't have gotten to beat up a trained military guy twice her weight and size, especially for such a long and serious scene (this is no Rena punch)

>>713476760
While Meakashi is probably my favorite chapter (and Shion my favorite character), it does kinda take impact away from Watanagashi. I think the main reason Wata is liked less than other question arcs is that we're not following the person that's really moving the story along. K1 isn't the schizo of that chapter.

>>713477093
>what do you mean there are inconsistencies in an in-universe fictional story which is intentionally contradictory?
Smartest Umineko critic.

>>713477185
The reasons provided for Eva's grief and aggression towards Ange don't even come close to justifying the wide array of incredibly thorough, vicious, and continuous attacks she put this --> SIX YEAR OLD LITTLE GIRL WHO LOST HER ENTIRE FAMILY <-- through

She even insisted to get custody of her. If Eva was actually the nuanced character you think she is, and had actual human complex reasons to do what she did... well she wouldn't have done what she did, she'd have let other people raise Ange.

>>713477185
You misunderstand what my point is. The cruelty in Ryukishi's stories don't have a logical goal in mind, characters do messed up stuff for the sake of spectacle and to make the reader feel repulsed and emotional. It's a cheap trick. Almost nothing Eva does to Ange has a practical purpose or coherent goal in mind, it's shock value.

>>713477093
the tea party is the only good part of episode 7 and the only decent answer in the entire story. Rudolf's motives were completely believable when you consider his character outside of smooth talking. He was a con artist scumbag who was willing to do a babyswap on Kyrie and pretend her child died. Familicide for wealth is completely in line with the evil acts he already committed. He only pretends to care about his children and uses them instead.

>>713477038
It's always baffling to see people act like this comes out of nowhere. Ever since EP2 the story constantly tries to appeal to the reader to go beyond the first impressions of a character, and then when they're truly put to the test by showing them something genuinely horrible they just immediately throw it all out.

>>713476817
It has nothing to do with self inserts. Eva's actions are so comically evil there is no world in which you can paint this situation as anything BUT "Eva is a fucking piece of shit who should have been jailed for some of the worst and most sophisticated child abuse we've seen in that country, and Ange is a poor victim who will need years of therapy to forget about her, on top of the already existing trauma of losing everyone"

Ange shouldn't have changed. The story pretends she does. The story is retarded, because it's written by a complete idiot.

>>713477326
>>713477380
Half of the "evil" things Eva did originally stemmed from a sense of overprotectiveness, like making sure she always had guard arounds, for example. So yes, there is a purpose and nuance to it.

>>713477093
Personally, I think Rudolf had sense and Kyrie was fucking insane. He knew they were done, which is why he met his end with Eva with dignity.

>>713477490
>Eva is a fucking piece of shit who should have been jailed for some of the worst and most sophisticated child abuse we've seen in that country
She sheltered her too much and said some cruel things to her. That's it. I think you're massively overstating Eva's actions. NTA by the way, I don't have a horse in this race.

>>713477380
Also this. In Eva's case that anon will argue that it's about her grief and hate for Kyrie and so on which gives her reasons (very bad ones, very laughable ones, but there is at least an idea) but as a general rule you described what R07 does to a T.

Remember Takano? Remember how she fucking toyed with the kids she executed in episode 7? Started making fucking puns in front of them as she shot their friends? R07 believes this can be redeemed. Worse, he believes Takano shouldn't go to jail.

>>713477558
Kyrie is the prime example of a girl who heard the phrase "Yas queen, slay" and took it literally.

>>713477635
I think Takano doesn't deserve it at all, which is why I dislike the ending to Higurashi. Stop making up strawmen.

>>713477558
He was clearly insane too. He murdered George then apologizes for it like 2 minutes later. Kyrie and Rudolf has the exact same motives. If anything Rudolf was the more insane one since he was willing to kill his own flesh and blood.

>>713477521
I can write a character that throws their daughter in a cage because they're overprotective and starves them to make sure they don't become overweight, am I going to successfully convince you that the character is acting in good faith and has rationally thought out their behavior and what the practical consequences of it will be? Or am I giving you a hackneyed rationalization for objectively harmful behavior so that there's an illusion that my very evil character has depth?

>>713468086 (OP)
What will be the retarded plot this time?

>>713477003
Kind of a shame that Mion is the best of the main cast but never really gets a chapter with her in the spotlight.

>>713477739
>I can write a character that throws their daughter in a cage because they're overprotective and starves them to make sure they don't become overweight
Nothing even remotely like this happens in Umineko. You're using excessive hyperbole to make it sound like you have a point.

>>713477521
That's the whitewashing interpretation, supported by nothing other than trying to defend a badly written story.

It's completely inconsistent with the comical levels of psychological and physical violence Eva put A TRAUMATIZED 6 YEAR OLD GIRL through.

Umineko isn't about understanding people and truth. It's about making truth as unclear as possible and bullshiting your way so that you can pretend completely idiotic shit is valid and true.

>>713477812
Incorrect, I'm pushing your argument to its logical extreme and asking you if you can still defend it. Sounds like you can't.

>>713477292
Tea Party 7 is canon, lmao. That's why Ange breaks down in Episode 8. Rudolf went along with the shittiest plan on Earth, the most perilous, uncertain, dangerous possible pyrrhic victory snatched from the jaws of a very comfy "sit your ass down and enjoy the money baby"

>>713470995
This must feel so gay to read this with a twitch chat
A complete rape of immersion and engagement

>>713477201
It's a pretty ridiculous scene either way but wasn't the point that he lost on purpose? Okonogi was constantly annoyed that most of his men aren't actual soldiers, he wanted to "lose" a direct fight for some kind of closure.
Of course, it was still probably just character wank because Ryukishi forgot to give Mion some kind of arc at the end of Higurashi and tried to throw one together in the last chapter.

Should've happened in Minagoroshi where literally every other member of the gang faced their issues, but for some reason Mion never stood up to her family in the perfect situation to do so.

>>713477825
>It's completely inconsistent
No it's not. Ange herself describes how Eva changed over time. She wasn't abusive right from the start. Strict, sure, but nothing remotely like she was on her deathbed.
>comical levels of psychological and physical violence
Such as? Especially on the latter part. Again, I'm not saying she didn't do evil shit, but you're talking about it like she put out cigarettes on her skin or something.

>>713469937
I always smile when I hear that name, that dudes such a fucking retard.

>>713477449
You completely missed the issue here anon, you overfocused on the details that can paint Rudolf as a complete piece of shit who would butcher children for a few bucks and missed the pragmatic reasons that make this dangerous, unpractical and generally a complete shit plan.

You don't have to just paint Rudolf as another comically evil inhumane monster to make this work, you also need to rewrite stuff like the dogeza scene, AND you also need to make him a bumbling retard unable to see how shitty the plan is. A complete failure from start to end

>>713477825
You are genuinely retarded.

>>713477891
>I'm pushing your argument to its logical extreme and asking you if you can still defend it
...Are you sure that this is the point you want to make? You don't see anything wrong with that?
>>713477926
Of course it's canon. That doesn't change a thing I've said though.

>>713470190
>But the solution to Umineko is also total bullshit.
Theres like 10 problems with 10 solutions.

>>713478145
Don't bother, they're Joe fanboys.

>>713471869
Another knuckle dragger not realizing that the worst aspect of this VN is the solipsism affirmation that is entirely outside of the mystery arcs

>>713477602
You haven't read Umineko episode 4, and if you did you don't remember it. Eva literally set up Ange's murder at the end of her life, tortured her by taunting her with the knowledge of her parents death, she shat on her parents grave right after their death and while Ange was grieving (and thinking Eva was the culprit, which was the only reasonable interpretation to have).

Please, refer to the screencaps posted above. Just look at this one >>713476515
Ange is almost enjoying getting beaten up by grown ass men because it's literally nothing compared to the abuse she's been put through. This isn't accidental. This isn't "just honest mistakes". This would get you jailed in real life and thank god for it

>>713478139
>...Are you sure that this is the point you want to make? You don't see anything wrong with that?
Yes. And no.

>>713478291
>I took your argument and changed it into something else
>heh, looks like you can't defend it now, huh?

>>713470995
No wonder he has had zero growth in 10 years, this dude is the DSP of youtube esseys.

>>713477709
Takano unironically got less whitewashed than most Umineko characters because at least they tried to pretend it was caused by a fictional mental illness that makes you crazy. Because that's how far you need to go to make R07's shitty writing stand its ground

Fellas, you WILL play her game, right?

>>713477825
I love the seethe this guy produces just by screencapping Umineko. This is why Ryukishi wrote. The fluffy headcannon you guys have years after reading it is not what the author actuallly published.

>>713477490
The story doesn't try to justify her actions at all. It presents them from the context of a tortured little girl. There's plenty Ange wouldn't have understood, which isn't to say Eva wasn't cruel, because she was. You're dehumanizing Eva. People mad from grief do and say horrible things. Also, saying something doesn't mean you actually feel that way. People say things they regret all the time.

>>713478272
I like how the two actually awful things you cite are done when Eva is on her death bed, a situation where even Ange herself acknowledges that she has become completely insane.

>>713478139
>Of course it's canon. That doesn't change a thing I've said though.
So what isn't canon? The dogeza? Because Battler made up with Rudolf after leaving for years, there's no reason to believe the dogeza was wrong. This is incongruent with Rudolf's character.

>>713478069
Fuck you faggot. You clearly misunderstood the story if you think that some story of him acting good means he can't be evil.

>>713478431
>normal discussion between two readers
>not even any insults
>"look at the seethe!"
Grow up.

>>713478452
The screencap refers to things Eva did way before being sick. Eva humiliating Ange publically and shitting on her dead parents (who Ange thinks were killed by Eva herself) was done long before that, when Ange was SIX YEARS OLD.

>>713478510
We know that this is generally how it went down, but it's impossible to know if every single detail happened exactly the way it's described. There's no contradiction to that anywhere, Ange would break down in either case, and it makes sense since there couldn't have been an observer for every minute moment.

>>713478332
It's not a different argument. It's the same argument, taken to its logical extreme. The principle remains the same, but I'm restating it on different, more exaggerated terms, to see if you can read your own logic back without cognitive dissonance kicking it. The cognitive dissonance kicked in and now you're strawmanning.

You can write a character to do anything and throw a motive at the reader. The responsibility is on you to convince the reader that the motive and the action marry nicely. You can't tell the reader a character does something cruel to a child, then tell them the character had good intentions and expect them to just roll with it. You need to ground the behavior and the rationale, connect dots between "This is what the character did" and "This is what the character intended to have happen", and Ryukishi reliably fails to do this in his stories.

>>713478589
>Eva humiliating Ange publically and shitting on her dead parents (who Ange thinks were killed by Eva herself) was done long before that
And that's the thing I'm *not* referring to. It's awful and Eva should be ashamed for doing it, but it's not "comically evil child abuse".

>>713478434
>You're dehumanizing Eva
I'm not dehumanizing Eva, I'm refusing to get swept away by the wave of "BUT YOU DON'T KNOW FER SHURE" bullshit.

This is obfuscation. Plain and simple. If it was one or two instances, I would somewhat go along with you and at least entertain the idea that maybe Ange is wrong about everything and just didn't understand that Eva was very unlucky and clumsy. There's far more than that. R07 made sure to write many of these scenes with as much details as possible.

>>713478672
Are you retarded? The whole point was to convince Ange that she killed her parents and protect her from the truth of them being murderers.

>>713478672
>The principle remains the same, but I'm restating it on different, more exaggerated terms
>there is no difference between a character who humiliates their charge and a character who physically tortures them

>>713478589
>>713478836
Eva wasn't just unlucky and clumsy, idiot. Her husband and son were murdered by Ange's parents and she is the one who gets blamed for it. Not just by Ange, but also by the public, media, etc.
Doesn't excuse her actions, but you're a retarded ape if you think her behavior is unrealistic or badly written.

>Joe fanboys shitting themselves when confronted with a nuanced character that did something genuinely awful
>THERE CAN ONLY BE COMPLETELY GOOD AND COMPLETELY EVIL PEOPLE, EVERYTHING ELSE IS BAD WRITING

>>713478914
There is a difference, which is why I said the terms are exaggerated. Are you illiterate?

>>713468086 (OP)
The plot is about a girl who can't dick vs a girl who doesn't want to learn. There, I saved whomever is looking to "read" it 120 hours.

>>713478836
I'm not saying Ange was wrong about everything. I'm saying that she would be wrong about a few things, and I'd agree that Eva increasingly became more insane over the years. But you're expecting Eva to be the adult she should be in the situation, when Eva has gone through just as traumatic of an event as Ange, and this element is what makes it a more human story, because it reflects another side of what happens in reality, rather than the happy trauma bonding a lot of stories would take. I even agree R07 went comically far in making her evil in her later years. I like the idea though.

>>713468086 (OP)
There were some highs and lows but Higurashi only really fell off in Matsuribayashi. Even then, I liked Takano's story at the start and the connecting fragments scenes offering more backstory/seeing events we'd only heard about at that point.

>>713478657
>>713478549
Refer to >>713478836

This is obfuscation.

I'm not saying Rudolf can't act evil despite doing good sometimes. The issue is
>the level of evil
>the impractical nature of the plan
>the level of risk
>the victims (his family, his own son, children)

Think about it for a moment. In any other story written by a sensible human being, you would struggle to convincingly write a dude who'd put himself through huge risks for very little rewards at the cost of killing dozens, including children and his own son.
That would be hard enough, but what if I told you "hey, could you make a scene where that guy throws away his pride and self worth to beg said son to forgive him for remarrying?"
You'd call me a fucking idiot, and I would be one, because I'd write like R07

>so how did you construct those locked room murders
>lol genji killed them

>>713479031
i'm pretty sure half of the posts in this thread are you posting every 60 seconds off cooldown, give it a rest my nigga

>>713478836
>there is absolutely no possible way to interpret Eva putting Ange under surveillance as her being overprotective and it only turned into something malicious later down the line
I'm done here, I've had better discussions on fucking MAL about this.

Alright, it's time to post some Lambda ecchi

>Alright guys, we have a military division in town trying to kill Rika
>Now I could call up my mafia family's goons and have them mow all the bad guys down as soon as they enter our massive property while we hide in our bunker full of weapons
>But instead we're gonna fight them off by ourselves by setting Home Alone style traps in the woods, fueled by the power of friendship

>>713478430
>play
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to play with my books of algebra, geometry, and Newtonian physic.

>>713475484
You are smoking dog dick if you can't see why she would turn into a bitter hag
Her not internalizing the costs of that shit family and actually taking her own side radically to the end is kinda based and red pilled

>>713479147
>EVERYONE IS THE SAME PERSON
The final state of the Joe cuck.

>>713479218
Silent hill F(urude) isn't a VN

>>713479119
You completely missed the issue here faggot. You are assuming his actions were genuine. He was estranged from his son for years just prior to the story and didn't really give a fuck about him compared to money.

>>713479091
>But you're expecting Eva to be the adult she should be in the situation
NO
I'm expecting Eva to not ACTIVELY engage in METICULOUSLY destroying Ange's life by doing the most comically evil things you could imagine, stuff that you'd be laughed out of the room for writing even in a fucking YA novel, but that somehow gets a pass in this trash chuuni VN

I'm expecting Eva to not go "Hey kiddo, your dead parents you think I killed? They fucking SUCK, how about I humiliate you publicly and beat your ass so much that you still shiver thinking about it 12 years later? By the way, here are your 20 bodyguards assigned to make sure you don't get to interact with other kids, have fun"

>>713479193
The Sonozaki are absolutely pathetic for never realizing the massive glowie operation under their own noses.

>>713479135
This is one of the many reasons why the manga is dogshit. In the VN there are plenty of locked rooms where it's perfectly possible and reasonable to assume other accomplices.

>>713479332
>I'm expecting Eva to not go "Hey kiddo, your dead parents you think I killed? They fucking SUCK, how about I humiliate you publicly and beat your ass so much that you still shiver thinking about it 12 years later? By the way, here are your 20 bodyguards assigned to make sure you don't get to interact with other kids, have fun"
Based Eva playing the villain and protecting Ange from the truth. The lesser of evils.

>>713479256
you're trying to convince me that these two posts >>713478914 >>713479031 are written by two different people? lol sure thing champ. just so you know, just because this isn't MAL where you literally have a username by your posts doesn't mean people can't sniff out an obvious samefag

>>713479294
>no you don't get it the dogeza was a complete lie from Rudolf, he just humiliated himself for no purpose and actually gave 0 shits about his son, which is why he was fine with butchering him alongside dozens of others for no reward at all

UMINEKOFAGS EVERYONE

>>713479285
Oh, sorry. I'm retarded.

>>713478908
>The whole point was to convince Ange that she killed her parents and protect her from the truth of them being murderers
Nice protection, now Ange just has to live with knowing the murderer of her parents got away with everything and now gets to torture even her ;)

>>713479414
There's like three different discussions going on at the same time currently.

>>713479193
killing is bad, anon. Instead we'll just shoot near them to scare everyone away

>>713479230
refer to >>713479332

I can't make it more obvious or clear than this. What you're describing isn't what this hack has written.

>>713479189
Lambda was actually a good character, thank you.

I see that the current e-celeb playthrough is bringing even more retards into this already retarded fanbase, great. No wonder R07 doesn't give a shit about writing anymore.

>>713479430
Nta. The dogeza was definitely real. Rudolf loved Battler and never would have killed him. He's trying to act tough in front of Kyrie, because of his fake alpha pride, but he wasn't seriously going to kill his son.

>>713479430
Why are you so obessed with saying dogeza over and over you dense faggot? If he's capable of familicide he's also capable doing that shit and not being genuine. The scene you are talking about isn't even red truth so it could just be some bullshit to make him seem better in a version of events where he isn't the killer. You really are a fucking retard if you can't understand the basics behind Umineko

>>713479515
Much better than finding out the truth that her parents were murderers.

>>713479135
>we just have 3 different accomplices in every episode lmao
>not to mention the accomplice that will always kill himself the moment I ask him to
>genius locked rooms huh?

>what do you mean a character can sometimes lie depending on the circumstances?
Riveting conversation you guys are having.

>>713479658
I once again got tricked into entering an e-celeb thread. Really thought it was an actual WTC thread this time, guess I'll never learn.

>>713479717
He was fine with killing his nephew and other family members. There's no reason to think he wouldn't kill his estranged nephew as well. He pretended to love the rest of his family and turned on them.

>>713479718
>If he's capable of familicide he's also capable doing that shit and not being genuine
He gains nothing from it. He loses pride and humiliates himself for a son he doesn't want anything to do with and is completely fine with murdering.

You know what familicide Rudolf would do? Never contact Battler again and focus on his life.

still samefagging i see. you realize you're the only guy doing the >greentext strawman followed by very smart smug response thing, right?

>>713479193
Why didn't Mion ever use her gun. She carries that thing everywhere.

>>713479865
We will never have discussions again like we did when the episodes were originally released, sorry man.

>>713479801
>get psychologically abused every day for your entire childhood
OR
>get told your parents fucked up and became killers for a night
Damn, idk what COULD be worse

what Ryukishi07 kino should i read in preparation for his Silent Hill game?

>>713479923
He doesn't care about that stuff. He loses no pride and feels no humiliation because he's an ice cold psychopath putting on a show.

>>713479953
damn...

>>713479375
Going from the answer being that one person specifically assisted in killing people to there could have been multiple people who helped kill people doesn't change the fact that most of the cast is in on it and the story sometimes shows scenes that flat out did not happen in any way. The murder mysteries are not the point of Umineko since the actual focus is on who Sayo is, but that doesn't mean you can't try to write a good murder mystery to go along with it.

>>713479967
Higurashi or Higanbana

>>713476515
The anime aesthetic is completely deluding you from the evolutionary biology dynamic here

There is a reason why cucked fathers end up having very strained relationships with their cuck child even when they never figure out that the child isn't their own.

Eva is essentially raising the spawn of the source of her lives nightmares. The fact that she is innocent is what makes the whole thing even worse. Since she can't even hate her justifiably. So the irrational cruelty is a very rational response. Within their own reality she is not interacting with an anime loli but with an average meek girl. There are a ton of justifications for her rotten character. The fact that you can't see this makes you the real life caricature.

>>713479960
Umineko presents the second option as being much worse and I agree with it. Having a harsh childhood is not as bad as knowing you are the spawn of evil.

>>713479995
Why does he even bother with the charade? You didn't give me a single reason why he would take time of his day to do that.

>>713479967
Higurashi is closer in terms of setting, so probably that.

>>713479935
it's a bb gun, I vaguely remember some real life incident made R07 shy away from using it.

Official Lambda/Bern art for a change.

>>713480164
Because he wasn't planning on killing everyone until they found the gold. He was always a psychopath which is why he was fine with switching kyrie's baby for a dead one.

>>713480025
As someone who has read a lot of mystery novels, both Golden Era and modern, I think most (though not all) of the puzzles in Umineko are pretty good. I can see that people unfamiliar with anti-mystery might struggle with it though, not necessarily on an intellectual level but due to the presentation and framing. Some of the best puzzles are in the second half of the VN, actually.

By the way, Ciconia is trash too and R07 is a joke nowadays. I guess he should be able to handle a decent Silent Hill game, but even that can go really wrong.

>>713480079
>>713480206
i wonder if then it would run the risk of making all the stuff in SHf feel derivative, or if it would give me a deeper understanding/appreciation of how he's invoking the original work and recontextualizing it for SH

>>713477093
You are a clown.
Rudolf is exactly the kind of guy that would do this.
The ice man, the Russian serial contract killer was just an average good guy dad while at home with his family.

>>713480250
If he's cold enough to kill his entire family, son included for basically nothing (no gain at all, in fact he gets less money than he would have without that plan in the long run), then he has absolutely no reason to go, meet his son and try to convince him to accept him again. He would rather do literally anything else with his life.

>>713480118
I always thought it was an interesting argument. Being betrayed by your parents rather than your aunt is different. I think as far as the truth goes, it's more likely that Eva degenerated into insanity and her actions got more harsh as a result. But it's interesting to think about.

>>713480269
>almost 6 years since Ciconia phase 1
How will we celebrate the 10 year anniversary of it being dead?

>>713480269
>40$ VN

>>713480357
He seems to care more about Kyrie's approval and affection than about the money. Which is partly because he feels guilty for the baby swap.

>>713470190
>But the solution to Umineko is also total bullshit.
Episode 1 makes it clear.
There is a locked room containing two dead bodies.
It is evident that the two bodies could not be killed from outside the room.
Mechanisms do not exist within the room.
There is no evidence of a murder suicide.
Of the people who discovered the body, one later "sees" Beatrice and dies.
Of those who died, one has to have survived and merely faked their death.
From there, you already confirm Genji and Nanjo as accomplices and Kanon as a culprit. Shannon gets further established as one when Beatrice in EP2 is tied firmly to her and Kanon.

>>713480357
How are you so stupid.
Why would you assume that such a guy is 100% genuine even with his son ? Opportunism and self interest are the credo of con men. everything else serves. In that situation it was the correct thing to say to Butler and in another he shows his other face. Not to mention he is conflicted to the end but also feels like there is no more out once the first step escalated. A guy like him getting with a psycho bitch is literally Bonny and Clyde 2.0

Akasaka is a city slicker

By the way, the mechanics of identity swap are bullshit and contradictory

>>713470669
he's right

t. didn't read past episode 5

>>713479967
I could see Silent Hill F having a similar story to Hotarubi.

>>713480760
>In that situation it was the correct thing to say to Butler
Are you genuinely stupid?

He has nothing to gain at all by interacting with Battler. He doesn't care about family life. Battler cut ties with him. It's a net plus for 100% opportunistic, 0% emotional Rudolf. Going out of his way to beg Battler to accept him again is a net loss for that Rudolf, even if you were to headcanon that he feels nothing and can humiliate himself for whatever minor thing.

>>713480331
Honestly probably neither. I'd wager SHf will feel like its own thing, but if one of those two things happened I'd like to say it'll be the latter. Reading Higurashi before Umineko made the experience of the latter more enjoyable, so there probably will be some value in having read something else by him before playing the new SH.

>>713480606
>Shannon gets further established as one when Beatrice in EP2 is tied firmly to her and Kanon.
You could also potentially guess it after reading the episode 1 tea party, since the only characters that appear are Battler, George, Jessica, Maria, Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice. So the only ones who survived the first game.
At the very least, it's clear foreshadowing of Sayo being the culprit and one form of Beatrice.

>>713473043
>>713476164
Actually read Dice Killing Chapter.

>>713480541
Press S to spit on its grave

Saturday morning cartoons would have better worldbuilding than this

>>713480847
He's a retard who got tricked by Lambdadelta's bullshit and threw a tantrum because of it.

>>713480910
Not true
He does care about Butler
Just not enough to put him above the psycho bitch that has him by the balls

>>713468086 (OP)
THE ENDING IS BAD BECAUSE EVERYONE IS HAPPY IN A "WHAT IF EVERYTHING WENT RIGHT" UNIVERSE

>>713480980
>You could also potentially guess it after reading the episode 1 tea party, since the only characters that appear are Battler, George, Jessica, Maria, Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice
That's an actual post-hoc rationalization, like the music from the initial six sacrifices discovery having five gunshot like sounds, alluding to a false death. Something cute for a reader to realize upon returning to the work.
The key to a good mystery is one that is solvable with the evidence provided. To focus on Eva and Hideyoshi, we have
>Body discovered by Kanon and Genji
>It is only on Kanon and Genji's word that the door was locked
>Both bodies are found in the room and the method of murder would be impossible to carry out from the outside
>No mechanisms are implied (no clues to this in the main scenario, and the game outright declares this is the case)
Locked room mysteries tend to fall into a few camps. Locked rooms are always fake in some way, and the traditional methods are
>The lock is tampered (i.e., cutting the chainlock and gluing it back in place)
Evidence is never provided to assume this.
>There is some mechanism for depositing a key back into the room (i.e., a length of fishing line is used to drag the key under the door and through the victim's pocket via a complex mechanism)
The door used a chain lock, so this is an impossibility.
>The locked room was never real in the first place. The person who discovered it is the culprit or an accomplice.
And here we get out answer, right in the second murder of Episode 1.

Not even saying the mystery is bad or anything, it's just silly to see people go it's unsolvable when basic knowledge of locked room murders gives you a lot to work with here.

Why yes, I will inherit this entire island for myself and my family.
No, I will never fully explore it, why would I?
Hidden mansion, secret gold, who would believe in those fairy tales?
Also I have this singular golden ingot with half winged eagle.

Eceleb fags are pure cancer

Try reading anything better.

Recent mystery English VNs on Steam over the past few years:
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1249260/Birth_ME_Code/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1228600/Blankspace/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1568920/Clean_Slate/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1414250/CORPSE_FACTORY/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1728290/Decide_4_God/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1820720/The_Divine_Deception/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2011310/Entropic_Float_This_World_Will_Decay_And_Disappear/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2058090/The_Game_of_Fourtune/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1338940/Head_AS_Code/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2801620/Look_Inside/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1271300/Methods_The_Detective_Competition/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1940040/The_Price_Of_Flesh
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1020030/Quantum_Suicide/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2621950/Reaplaced/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1725910/Shards_of_Chaos/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2560870/The_Specters_Desire/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2091580/SYNESTHESIA/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1513120/The_Zodiac_Trial/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1590230/Tyrion_Cuthbert_Attorney_of_the_Arcane/

Upcoming mystery English VNs on Steam:
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2551380/Beyond_R_Rule_Ripper/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1041270/Exogenesis_Perils_of_Rebirth/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1349820/The_Lost_Delinquents_of_Rollings_High/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1287170/Thiefs_Roulette/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/1929350/Ubel/
>https://store.steampowered.com/app/2385550/Underground22/

>>713481589
Krauss was obviously hoping to use his redevelopment efforts to find the gold. Blindly exploring a mostly untouched island is a quick way to get himself killed.

>>713481589
Why are Nanjo and the others ok with working and sleeping on a bomb rigged island that could blow up whenever the depressed schizo owner feels like it?

>>713481634
Kill yourself.

>>713481634
You're gonna die one day.

>>713481678
Honestly, I don't see why someone wouldn't.
Getting to work with Kinzo would be the most interesting experience in my life.

>>713481678
I thought only Genji know about it

>>713481693
You first.
>>713481717
So will everybody else.

>lol 3 billions died on the first day
That's why he's a (shitty) writer, he can't into numbers.

>>713481812
Yeah but you're gonna die in front of your computer, spamming the same copypasta day in, day out, seething at danganbongo and umipedro forever and ever.
You will be a lonely little man until the day you die, screaming into the void and being indistinguishable from bots, and I can take pleasure in posting all of this because you're still shilling one of my VNs.

>>713481678
They needed the bombs ready to explode to activate their latent shifting abilities, making it possible for them to make different choices based on current timeline.

>>713481905
>psychotic newfag babble
Thanks for bringing attention to my post.

>>713480939
>>713480875
i think i'll do Higurashi>Umineko>Hotarubi, i'll see how much i can get done before SHf launches, thanks for the reccs.

>>713481882
why is Hideyoshi one of the three kings?

>>713481678
>>713481804
Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa all knew about Kinzo's crimes and felt guilty. That's why they became Yasu's willing accomplices and servants. Genji was even willing to die and kill for her.

>Aah yes crazy tranny, you solved the epitaph. Congratulations. You should know your body is forever mutilated because that bitch that bosses you around threw you into a cliff as a baby. By the way, that old guy who's your other boss? He's actually your father. And by that, I mean your grandfather. Can you dress up as your mother-sister to make your boss-father-grandfather hard one last time? He was a good friend.

>Here's the remote control for the island wiping bomb we live in. Make good use of it!

>>713482253
Based Genji. He knew there was only one solution to the Ushiromiya problem.

>>713482253
How can one man be this based?

>yes, people wouldn't care at all about the existential threat of 3.5 billions humans being wiped out in a single day because............... we care about people we know.... genius.....

Give it to me straight
Was Kinzo Jewish?

>>713482253
So Beatrice is a bomb?

>>713468086 (OP)
My favorite stress test for anime garbage is asking myself "what would happen to this story if even half of its cast suddenly started acting like normal people and communicated clearly like adults?". Higurashi and Umineko fail this test so magnificently that it circles back to being entertaining.

Hiding the fact that there was a bomb by always vaguely referring it as an "incident" or "accident" is pure bullshit by the way.

>>713482703
how does umineko fail it again? I thought the characters and their interactions were extremely not anime and people actually were very realistic and believeable characters

>>713470669
5 is the best part. Anderson is such a retard.

>>713482625
The joke is that nips only consider themselves human, thus the "creatures known as humans." Mass murder is only a thing if it harms nips.

>>713482625
they live in a world just after the brink of extinction where people are born in factories and have no families
it's easy to see how people would become indifferent to the life and death of others

>>713482703
Higurashi's main cast is mostly dysfunctional kids that went through some kind of trauma.

>>713482838
No, 5 is the moment where the whole VN starts to go south. Fuck Erika and fuck Dlanor

>>713472881
It has absolutely nothing to do with quality. Umineko has better characters and better writing than higurashi. It's not even fucking close.

>>713482926
Anon, this is like half of the human population dying overnight. I am pretty sure this would spell absolute disaster for the survivors even if the death toll stopped right there (it has no reason to). This is a world ending event.

R07 is making the point that people wouldn't even blink at world ending level events because they only care about their friends dying. This isn't how that goes, these are two complete different things.

>>713482773
I'm guessing he's talking about the "one person pretending to be two" thing, which only makes sense if people like Jessica have brain damage.

>>713470995
Of course this tasteless streamer faggot hates best girl Erika unironically and doesn't understand her appeal.

>>713470995
the mystery is BULLSHIT
what the story ended up being is great
he is unironically right and this is the only reading you can have

>>713482703
How does Higurashi fail? Other than maybe the pen/syringe thing in episode 1.

>>713482049
>My boss did bad things
>Therefore I will murder innocent women and children to make up for it
What a wonderful person.

>>713483243
You're not serious, are you? The moral of the story is literally power of friendship bullshit because the characters learn the value of communicating clearly and working together toward a common goal rather than going on killing sprees in, like, the 7th episode. The only thing that keeps the story from falling apart is the fact that they're dumb kids, but then you remember all of the adults are also retards so it doesn't count for much.

>>713483309
>innocent

>>713483425
These threads are unadulterated fellation with no critique or dissension allowed.

Unironically normies would be creaming themselves over Erika, Eleanor, Lambda etc. if they were tall busty women. Just juxtapose their reaction to Beatrice with Bern and co.

>>713483598
Bern/Rika's body is unintentionally paralleled with Yasu's pathetic flatness.

>>713483425
You haven't explained how the kids would have solved everything by acting reasonably.

>>713483935
See >>713473043

>>713483598
So would genderbending George into a chubby femcel.

>>713483935
Probably because I never said that. I said the story doesn't hold up if you imagine them behaving like normal people. The entirety of episode 1 no longer makes sense, most of episode 2 doesn't make sense (and therefore episode 5), episode 3 mostly holds up (best episode btw), then by episode 6 they start to realize how to just talk to each other like normal people and work with each other rather than going rogue. Hell, Rika being unable to figure out how to get out of the time loop for 100 goddamn years alone makes her the dumbest motherfucker on the planet.

Their behavior makes so little sense Ryukishi has to just say "there's a parasite that made them act crazy" in the final hour.

>>713483070
yeah, but this is the a3w, where it's about 1/3rd of the population. even with that amount of deaths, it likely had little or no effect on the lives of people in unaffected areas.

>>713484316
>why don't these mentally unstable/abused kids act like well-mannered adults?
Of the critiques you could make about Higurashi, I don't think this is one of them. How can you expect kids like Rena or Satoko to act normal with the trauma they went through at such a young age that was never properly dealt with?

>>713479603
Is the Higurashi anime worth watching?

>>713485327
Nah it's pretty shit

>>713485327
It's the weakest way to experience it, the atmosphere is usually done pretty well but they really screwed up pacing and missing info for certain chapters.
Watch it after the VN if you want to see how they handled certain things, I guess.

Best way to experience Umineko+Higurashi without wasting 60 hours of my life?

I read the entire thing this month and thought it was great overall. Matsuribayashi is pretty meh but I enjoyed the other chapters a lot. I also read Miotsukushi which, while flawed, is a more satisfying conclusion I'd say.

>>713485657
read faster

>>713469937
there is no reason to look it up when his chat and discord keeps spoiling it

>>713485657
Skip magic parts

what was his problem

>>713481634
great post

>>713485961
Guy who tried making money off of hair brained schemes with no long term plans and obsessed over getting money from his dead brother that may or may not even exist in the house anymore. He also was expected to take care of children that weren't his in a town that actively hates him over a dispute he wasn't a part of. Guy is still an asshole but is arguably a victim of circumstance like the Houjo kids and his dead wife.

>>713486407
Didn't they only take on Satoko and Satoshi when they heard his brother got paid for his support of the dam? They didn't know the situation in the village but brought it on themselves due to greed.

>>713484646
It's not about whether I can conceive that the characters could reasonably be expected to act like normal well-adjusted people, it's about whether them not doing that is necessary and central to the conflict. If all the writer can say is "dude they're just really messed up and crazy" for 40 hours then I don't think your story is very good or interesting.

At the very least, Mion could easily resolve the conflicts in most episodes if she just fucking talked to anyone normally or did anything. She's relatively trauma-free, has a lot of knowledge about the village and the Sonozaki family that everyone else doesn't, and yet she just kinda sits around doing nothing for the entire story. Rika has timelooped for 100 years and still can't figure out how to do anything but say nipah, fuck is her deal, is she stupid? K1 literally JUST got there and his backstory is probably the least traumatizing out of the whole bunch yet he's the first one to go schizo mode because everyone around him acts unnecessarily shifty for all of episode 1. And honestly I don't think Rena's backstory is all that traumatizing, not enough to explain her behavior (which is why she has to suffer from hinamizawa syndrome).

Kids aside, every adult in the story is dumb as rocks or batshit insane, especially the main villain which is just painfully hard to read. I think a story can still be successful even if you have to kind of suspend disbelief the entire time and accept "I guess people here are just kind of stupid", but I can't stand it.

Saya no Uta is the only good VN

>>713483053
Delusional. Higurashi has much better writing with more interesting characters. Umineko reads like the author starts huffing his own farts. It badly needs an editor to cut the story down by over half of it's repetitive length and to fix the retarded solutions with real answers. You would have to entirely rewrite the last 1/3 of Umineko to bring it on par with Higurashi. There's a reason Umineko flopped and will never get a full anime adaptation. It's bad.

>>713486874
What do you think it's about? I think it's about the culture surrounding anime and its industry.

>>713486673
I don't remember reading that but might have missed it game is pretty long winded to put it lightly. Even if they brought it on themselves I think it's hard to deny the treatment of the Houjo were cruel especially when even cowards who also tried to get the money turned against them. That treatment definitely as well as Satoko being unreasonable (understandable since her childhood sucks and is genuinely ill) made their living environment from estranged in-laws to outright hostile. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if the Houjo parents died but the town didn't aggressively persecute them and Satoko didn't act like a cheeky shit to Tamae all the time.

>>713485657
Skip Umineko and just read Higurashi. Read fast and ignore voices

>>713468086 (OP)
Umineko was all I needed to see of Ryushitshi07

>>713487071
I do agree that Umineko is way too masturbatory for the author, but come on now. Umineko's characters are much better. Battler is a hundred times better than Keiichi as a protag, and no one in Higurashi comes to close to Beatrice's presence. And to be frank, Higurashi is much more boring than Umineko. There are so many stretches of Higurashi which are just black screens with people talking on the phone.

>>713487092
I think that it's about a guy who fucks a monster

>>713487405
Battler and Beatrice are better characters with better chemistry than nearly every VN I've ever read and it's a miracle from god that Ryukishi managed to produce them, but imo Higurashi's supporting cast is better and more consistent. Probably partially because it's just a smaller cast so there's more screentime per character, but also I just find them more endearing and easier to like since most of them are victims rather than perpetrators of horrible crimes.

>>713487268
They were definitely victims of the Hojo ostracization as well, but I still struggle to feel bad for them.
Had the town stopped the Hojo stuff after the parents died, I can't imagine Teppei and his wife would've suddenly been good guardians, but it might not have escalated to the point that it did for Satoko and Satoshi. A lot of the abuse was Teppei fucking off to go bang Rina and his wife taking that frustration out on Satoko, who would talk back and make things worse.

>>713487405
I'll at least say that Umineko characters had more potential. But I think that Higurashi characters are ultimately better because of the less bloated cast. Battler>Keiichi. I found Umineko to have way harder to get through and much more boring at times. I always enjoyed the slice of life parts in Higurashi that people said were slow but reading through Ange's bullshit in episode 4 and George/Shannon at the beginning of episode 2 nearly made me give up. It took me 3x longer to read Umineko even though it's only 50% longer. Probably 1/3 of the text in Umineko is just repeating stuff.

>>713487573
Based literal interpretation. It's an interesting story even if you're not looking for subtext. Really great use of horror.

>>713487604
>imo Higurashi's supporting cast is better and more consistent. Probably partially because it's just a smaller cast so there's more screentime per character
Exactly what I think. The side characters in Umineko feel more disconnected from the plot and lose out on participating in the greater meta plot as pieces. The dozens of meta only characters really bloated the cast.

>>713487626
I don't think they'd be good guardians either but I also think Satoko and Satoshi's situation would have been better by 1983 than it is in the games. While Teppei banging that whore Rina is a large factor into Tamae's abuse on Satoko it was also due to the constant feeling of people talking behind her back (probably true in the beginning at least) which made her both paranoid and isolated, causing her to hate both the villagers and the Hojou kids even more. It really is a tragic situation.

>>713483053
The answers arc felt like bullshit and it left a sour taste for most. That's all that matters.