>gets accused of plagiarism
>fans demand a music theory analysis by someone qualified
>some guy with a music degree points out one track has too many similarities to be a coincidence
>suddenly 1500 fans with presumably even higher music degrees show up in the comments to tell him he's wrong

This was pretty funny

>>713508384 (OP)
>some guy with a music degree points out one track has too many similarities to be a coincidence

Where?

>>713509075

https://youtu.be/BNh5HUNtEss

>>713508384 (OP)
Who do you think the 'expert witnesses' are in those frivolous music copyright trials? Surprising he was willing to do it >for free though

>>713510047
hey, Alex. I'm sure one day people will take you seriously. probably the same day you write a song people actually want to listen to lol

Alex Yard was mentally raped by Tobias Fox and Tee Lopes many times throughout the 2020s, truly grim stuff.

>>713508384 (OP)
I don't care. Toby won, they lost

Alex Yard lashes out at any video game musician that gets more attention than him, which is most of them. just look at how mad Spencer Nilsen makes him

>>713510047
>first example he tries to give is not in the same time signature or key, just share a slightly similar rhythm
>TL;DR unhinged pre-defense gibberings written in the corners of the video
and then i closed it.

So many Doctors of Musical Arts in this thread already

>>713508384 (OP)
>>713509075
>>713510047
You lost, Alex-kun

>>713510930
This. I only follow winners. That's why I support Israel.

>>713510047
>literally everyone is shitting on him
>even his fans are asking what the fuck he's doing
lol. i thought this autismo was just some anonymous shitposter, what is with autistics jumping into suicide argument pits?

>>713511359
Eceleb worship is a serious thing

you'd think someone with a "music degree" would understand how music works

>>713511106
Music theory is a funny thing, none of that matters. What matters is tension you create with the notes. If you want to plagiarize someone's song you'd change everything you could just to obfuscate but still create the same tension within your new parameters.

>>713510827
>>713510879
>>713510930
>>713510932
Cope harder Deltatroons. Toby is going to prison

>>713511423
You have one I assume

>>713511464
yes.
which is why i know making appeals to similarity in rhythm in an attempt to prove plagiarism is ludicrous.
there's a reason you can't copyright a rhythm.

>>713511613
You have a degree but you don't seem to have watched the video

>>713511668
you're posting like you know what you're talking about but don't seem to have watched the first two minutes of the video.

>>713511250
My dad invented music.

>>713508384 (OP)
Seeing this retard get his ass handed to him eventually got beta Spear of Justice on my radar, so that's a double win
https://youtu.be/5n6-EMuAED8

>>713511443
12TET is a funny thing, none of that matters. because you're working with such a limited scope of notes, you're going to run into similarities. there are only so many combinations that even work. when's the last time you heard a song written totally in Locrian?
I-IV-V, ii-V-I, VI-VII-i in minor (which would be IV-V-vi in the relative major), you only have so many options to expand upon to create that tension, anon.

>>713511451
Sorry to hear you were raped, Alex.

Is there a full list of composers Alex Yard squabbled with? I'm only aware of:
>Toby Fox
>Tee Lopes
>Grant Kirkhope

>>713512341
Toby will have his little jewish boipussy ravaged into a 5 dimensionsal shape from Tyrone, Byrone, and Xyrone (they/them, just like kris) in his new retirement home.

Can someone give me the rundown on this guy? I watched one or two videos on Sonic CD music, and they were entertaining if a bit pretentious. Then I followed him on Twitter and suddenly he was beefing with Toby Fox and Tee Lopes and Grant Kirkhope for some reason? And despite only ever getting like 10 likes at best people were acting like he had killed a dog or something

>>713512475
he's really critical of Spencer Nilsen for some reason.

>say a song inspired you wrote
>family of dead musician sue for royalties
>songs sound nothing alike
>lose anyways

>>713511976
>guy with a coherent argument based on objective theory
>got his ass handed to him
>by a thousand zoomer drones saying "you got raped" because he dared criticize their eceleb god
I weep for mindbroken zoomers that have to grow up in a world like this

>>713513998
some of his arguments are a real fuckin stretch.
>did you know this song STARTS ON A CHORD WITH A TONIC FUNCTION and USES A VI IN THE CADENCE????

it's funny cuz i have heard some examples way, way more damning than any flimsy argument this guy has brought up.

>>713514405
The point is that when you combine that with all the other similarities, it becomes unrealistic for all of it to be a coincidence

>>713512826
he made this video >>713510047 where he accused toby of plagiarizing some random song {the guys that made it said "we're flattered if toby took inspiration" btw), also said he never called it the "original soundtrack" and doesn't credit people enough even though he credits every monster design. later in the video he has more personal beef with toby re: distancing from yiik, being private and reserved
apparently this is all because he made a video on undyne's themes and then felt duped after learning it was "stolen"
then tweeted about how toby's a sex pest because he used the font "mars needs cunnilingus" which somehow means toby wanted kids knowing what cunnilingus is

then he goes for tee lopes because he dogpiled someone one time? so he makes a video baiting him iwth backhanded compliments and then "ambushes" him in the comments

at one point a guy that made a 10 hour sonic cd video said "go check out alex yard he's better at analyzing music then me" and then makes a joke about how big music theory words go over his head
alex took this VERY personally and literally cried on stream because of it and declared war on him

now he's calling grant kirkhope a plagiarist because they used the dk rap in mario movie without crediting him, but grant apparently "stole" another song before

>>713510047
He's transphobic btw

>>713514865
no, the point is all of the "similarities" he's pointing out are so ingrained in the nature of music and the tuning system we've used for the past 500+ years, they're so commonplace as to be nothing except coincidence.

like I said, I've heard a few undeniable examples (like the comparisons to that one Kirby song), but nothing this guy is trying to bring forward holds any weight.

so what music has this guy actually written? I see links to his theory vids, but never any to actual songs he's produced.

>>713516040
https://youtu.be/lGX5LXKk34M?t=1120

>>713516281
haha oh wow
nigga can barely manage a track that sounds like a kids Casio demo

>>713515923
>no, the point is all of the "similarities" he's pointing out are so ingrained in the nature of music and the tuning system we've used for the past 500+ years, they're so commonplace as to be nothing except coincidence.
You're still missing the point, each individual element is something you could realistically expect to see across various songs without it being copying, but once you hit 4-5+ shared elements in a row, then the likelihood of it being a coincidence drops exponentially

It's like having one or two similar sentences in two different books which can be a case of convergent evolution, versus having 5+ similar sentences in a row, all of which have a "copy my homework but don't make it too obvious" nature to them, at which point the possibility of it being a coincidence becomes astronomically low, especially when the author is already known to copy from other sources (like the Kirby song example)

Toby Fox lost.
Mick Gordon lost.
Jeremy Soule lost.
Jesper Kyd lost.
Marty O'Donnell lost.

For some reason various different schizos absolutely SEETHE over Toby Fox and Undertale/Deltarune
Im starting to question why exactly these games cause so much fucking butthurt. Like are people actually fucking jealous?
People trying to "prove" Toby is a hack in someway doesn't take away all the money and success hes already gained and that isnt going to suddenly make (YOU) successful.
It always feels like a cope to try to say he's successful in the "wrong way"

>>713512283
What you are saying is superficial, you know chords but you don't understand why they are combined in such a manner. give people the same chord progression they will make totally different sounds because they put emphasis on different parts because they interpret tension differently.
When trying to legeslate if something is a copy of something else you need to analyze if intent is the same and if that intent was copied.

>>713514875
>now he's calling grant kirkhope a plagiarist
From what I remember from Grant on Game Grumps, he was pretty open about melodies being inspired by nursery rhymes and little sing-songs for Banjo-Kazooie's soundtrack.

Toby Fox is not your friend and he does not care about you.

>>713517745
https://youtu.be/JIbIldA2c1s
Here's the song IIRC, and again Grant Kirkhope has been open about being inspired by this tune.

>>713517537
All of that money is going back to the artists that Toby plagiarized from once the lawsuit hits. Back to its rightful owners. Then he won't have any "Hopes and Dreams".

>>713516813
>You're still missing the point
i'm literally watching the point sail completely over your head.
all of these elements are too basic and commonplace to matter.
you're practically saying
>see how this song uses the notes C, D, F and G?? that's 4 of the same notes this other song uses, too many to be a coincidence!!!

no, anon, sharing rhythm (there are only so many beats that can be packed into any given time signature), chord function (there are only 3), chord tone focus and everything he brings up doesn't mean shit because THEY ARE SO UNBELIEVABLY COMMON.

i love how he goes
>yeah the song isn't in the same time signature. and yeah the song isn't in the same key. and yeah there are variations in chord tone, intervals, note length and placement...
but what if i shifted the intervals of the Star Wars theme up a little?????

this guy is a clown. if >>713516281 is the best he can write, he's very obviously bitter. which would explain why he's trying to focus so hard on analyzing songs instead of writing them.

>>713517537
They all do it to make (You) specifically seethe

>>713514875
he sounds extremely mentally ill
anyway this got me in the mood for some metal, anyone got suggestions

people forget that courts once ruled that George Harrison "subconsciously plagiarized" another pop song for "My Sweet Lord" because when they played it for him in court he admitted that he had heard it before and that it was basically the same as his own song that was MUCH more popular.

Will this turn into another King of Kong situation where an idiot ruins his family's life to win an internet argument?

>>713517826
I dont think you'll going to convince people to start seething for you.
Calling Toby Fox and hack is like the boy who cried wolf when other failed faggots are obviously just jealous over success they never had.

The funniest part of all of this is you know Toby's the kind of dork to mostly listen to videogame music so you know he wasn't ripping off obscure bands

>>713517537
Because Toby is an actual artist, relentlessly pursues his dreams, and so it reminds people of their cowardice. I brought up how much I admired Toby's story & success once in a group of people and everyone looked uncomfortable and said things like "well if I had rich parents I could be successful to" or something like that.

>>713518218
>Because Toby is an actual artist
lol

>>713517561
>What you are saying is superficial
what Alex is saying is superficial.
>ou know chords but you don't understand why they are combined in such a manner.
you couldn't even tell me what a chord function is without having to google it first.
>give people the same chord progression they will make totally different sounds because they put emphasis on different parts because they interpret tension differently.
because they are used in a different rhythm. otherwise you're using the same chords in the same rhythm. quick, open up your DAW and play me a ii-V-I. now do it again in the same key with the same rhythm and timbre but make it sound totally different. lol

copies are immediately recognizable. they share not only intervals but rhythm as well. otherwise you've just got a song written in 12TET, which has to obey the very limited rules of 12TET.

>10 years later
>autists STILL seething and malding and trying to "prove plagiarism" on a 10 year old game by pointing out that 3 notes in toby's song sound kind of similar to 3 notes in another song

>>713518112
Toby has made 0 legitimate dollars. His stolen rewards will be returned back to the people.

>>713517892
>he'll be sued one day! Just you wait!

>>713517978

>>713517537
You know why? Because they must have had soooo many fucking ideas and theories and shit on how to make a "perfect" video game and they never tried, just kept daydreaming about it. Then Toby shows up, and knocks it out of the park with an absolute banger of a game, then reveals its only a warmup for his magnum opus dream game. He is actually out there, putting the effort in, living the dream and the losers who never did anything are seething about him in pure jealousy.

There is an entire genre on youtube of failed losers of various types seething at indie devs and how XY game "fails" or "gets wrong"

>>713508384 (OP)
I'll never understand this drama, in every other case of plagiarism I've checked the plagiarism is so fucking obvious but when it come to the this undertake "plagiarism" case all the examples are like "these 5 seconds kind of resemble these other 5 seconds"
This shit is the biggest nothing burger ever and idk why people still run with these accusations

>>713518458
Where does sucking Hussie's dick for clout come into the equation

>>713518290
Bruh Toby now lives in Japan and knows various Japanese celebrities and developers. Hell once finishes deltarune he can retire if he was wants since Undertale and Deltarune already made a million each plus other money he made through merch and the back to back undertale concerts that were popular enough to get constant performances for a while.

>>713517893
You didn't even watch the video because you keep repeating the same basic non-argument over and over when the similarities go way beyond that and into the realm of incredulity

>>713518484
Aren't they actual friends that lived together?

>>713518484
>Hussie
>Clout
Lol
Lmao

>>713518475
>in every other case of plagiarism I've checked the plagiarism is so fucking obvious
That is the case here as well

>>713517847
wait, he really went after Grant Kirkhope over this?
hahaha holy shit
Teddy Bear's Picnic was written in 1907, it's a famous fucking song. how old is Alex? cuz i'm getting real "zoomer's first exposure" vibes from him.
that would be like hearing Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy and then making a 40 minute YT video about how
>Hirokazu Tanaka didn't REALLY compose Music-1 on Tetris and is actually le plagarist!!

>>713518475
There is no "drama" it's a couple of schizos. Similar to the guy that posts on every post that mentions valve talking about artifact

>>713518539
>when the similarities go way beyond that
they really don't. give me a time stamp for the section where you think Alex makes a deeper point.

>>713518597
His comic was one of the biggest things online or like 5 years.

>>713510047
So not only Undertale has worse gameplay, worse graphics, worse story, characters but all the memorable songs, which are arguably better than Deltarune are all plagiarized? Deltarune truly is the best game.

>>713518627
not that I and most people can tell. the video OP is talking about is incredibly unconvincing

>>713518261
>you couldn't even tell me what a chord function is without having to google it first.
I only subscribe to the harmonic function. Tonic, sub-dominant and dominant is all there is to it. Did you know there is more than one school of thought on how to interpret music?
>because they are used in a different rhythm. otherwise you're using the same chords in the same rhythm. quick, open up your DAW and play me a ii-V-I. now do it again in the same key with the same rhythm and timbre but make it sound totally different. lol
Because chords aren't song, they are guides. My song is made out of other elements, like bass and melody. Chords are guiding your music into a direction, but that direction isn't set in stone, different people hear different emotions from the same chord progression. It's the job of an artist to take his emotion and expose it to the world.

You are clearly not very knowledgeable on the subject.

>>713518505
Toby will be begging on the streets in broken japanese once retribution comes. and not a single Yamatojin will be giving his gaijin ass 1 en (yen).

>>713518475
This, like when listening to Kondo's earlier works you can clearly see where he took the main fucking melody of his songs from to the point I could listen to them with eyes closed and tell you which game they appear in but these "undertale copied X" bullshit is obvious coping

>>713518746
The guy who made the videos is the guy who keeps making these threads. He's autistically obsessed with this and has been doing it for at least a year by this point. He is genuinely mentally ill and should just ignored until he inevitably commits suicide over this.

>>713518796
nta but you sound like a faggot kek

>>713518746
You and other UT zoomers being blindly loyal to a guy who doesn't even know you exist =/= the similarities not being obvious

>>713518796
>Because chords aren't song
then why is it being argued that copying them means copying the song?

>>different people hear different emotions from the same chord progression
>it's different because it FEELS different!!!
lmao

>You are clearly not very knowledgeable on the subject.
you have said nothing of concrete substance and instead have waxed idiotic about what you think it means to interpret and feel and experience.

>>713518962
How long are you gonna do this, alex? Are you gonna be 70 years old and trying to convince people, confident that one day everyone will change their minds?

>B-BUH TOBY WASN'T PLAGIARIZIN-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9UUuxhh4Ao

I think its time we should start highlighting the mental illness known as Toby derangement syndrome

1. Who cares, music is all about ripping each other off
2. The guy uses the same tracks over and over it shouldn't surprise anyone

>>713518218
Toby's the biggest fraud going

toby fox is incapable of creating, he's just taking stuff from elsewhere and remixing then when people notice they go "omggg guise it's like le epic thing from [before]"
most recent example i can think of is when he was on staff marin's song "Dead Ma’am’s Chest" which is just the subtitle of a pirate of the caribbean movie with maam replacing man, because "get it's she's le pirate is this is le epic reference", then when you listen to the song there are tons of sections that refer to past viral songs, like very blatantly and unapologetically "i'm your treasure box" because "get it? it's le epic song you guise liked from 2 years ago!" and the rest of the song unironically sounds pretty bad relative to it. It made views just because it has "made by le undretale creator" stamped on it.

>>713518962
idc retard
>I listen to the examples in the video
>It doesn't sound the same
>It's not plagiarism
that it, I don't give a fuck about his retarded "but you see the macro composition is actually different but still to similar to be a coincidence" argument

>p-please.... i need.... money- i mean..... kane
>HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH NANDA YO KONO GAIJIN WA WWWWWWWWWWW
>o-onegai!!!! b-boku wa.... uh............ andaateiru ga tsukutta!!!!!!
>KYAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MITE MITE NIHONGO JOUZU NA HAKUJIN
>i'm so hungry.... i've "fallen down"..... at least.... at least a "a Mint on My Pillow"
>EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTO YUU RUKKU RAIKU A JUUISSHU MAN WWWWWWWWWW
This is what awaits Toby.

>>713519450
idc retard
>I listen to the examples in the video
>they sound the same
>It's plagiarism
that's it, I don't give a fuck about your retarded "but you see ackshually toby is my parasocial best friend so that means he's never wrong" argument

https://streamvi.com/watch/1800055523878752

>>713519285
>just taking stuff from elsewhere and remixing
People love to quote Tolkien's 'evil cannot create' quote when the only things he actually made were languages and his stories were just taking Norse myths and mixing them up with Catholic theology

>>713519001
They aren't being compared, what is being compared isn't chord progression but tension they create and places where they create tension. It's all about tension all comparison is about tension. You are too stupid to understand tension.

>>713519537
oh Alex...
i'm sure if you keep analyzing songs one day you'll be able to write something that doesn't sound like a 3-channel midi nursery rhyme!

>>713519557
>he just created entire languages, foundation myths, centuries of history, and ton of fictional races still copied to this day... no big deal!
kys

>>713519537
https://streamvi.com/watch/1800055523878752
that what I'm talking about when i said nothing burger, this shit isn't plagiarisms they don't sound the same.
your ears are just fucked up

>>713519715
Anon.. you being deaf doesn't mean they aren't copied, Toby outright admitted to half of those directly or indirectly

>>713519672
>foundation myths
Genesis but God was singing a song
>centuries of history
Which were all taken from elsewhere and remixed with other things
>tons of fictional races
Elves and dwarves were taken from Norse myths. Orcs were a hodgepodge of malevolent folklore sprites. Hobbits were literally just 'what if landed gentry were short'.

>>713519671
>that doesn't sound like a 3-channel midi nursery rhyme
A sign of truly good artist is to create something incredible with severe limitations. Look up some SID chip music and Tim Follin.

>>713518505
>Bruh Toby now lives in Japan and knows various Japanese celebrities and developers. Hell once finishes deltarune he can retire if he was wants since Undertale and Deltarune already made a million each plus other money he made through merch and the back to back undertale concerts that were popular enough to get constant performances for a while.

Toby already spent that money on plagiarism enhancing drugs. Why do you think he has to keep composing for games other than Deltarune?

>>713518484
Stop dead naming D-Clussie

>>713519745
>Anon.. you being deaf doesn't mean they aren't copied, Toby outright admitted to half of those directly or indirectly
your schizo delusions are not real btw

>>713519632
you don't even know what the word means in a musical context lmao
you're throwing it around like it's going to save you when it only exposes your blithering ignorance

just like i've been slapping you across the face with this whole time, there is a finite number of ways to create tension that doesn't dissolve into a discordant mess. songs sharing those, and the other elements mentioned, do not equate to plagarism.

pop quiz, maestro. did David Bowie plagiarize Stevie Wonder?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y__tczZDkTo

>>713518685
19:40 shows four matches in composition in the same order, in the parts that sound the exact fucking same, and then at 20:00 there's another match later in the songs

>>713519810
>A sign of truly good artist is to create something incredible with severe limitations.
i guess that's why Alex is an obvious talentless hack

>comparing >>713516281
>to Tim fucking Follin
lol
lmao

FYI: the point isn't to label Toby Fox a plagiarist, it's to discredit him as a legitimate creator by implying everything he made was someone else's work and (by implication) the person making the posts attacking him is saying they could've done the same.

>>713519810
>Tim Follin
Get that name out of your mouth, Alex.

>>713511106
Do you know those 2 things are the easiest to change in a DAW after you copy pasted someone's music...
>Slow by 0.0001% BPM
>Pitch down 0.0001 cents
>Its a totally new song guize!

>this thread
why does music theory attract so many autistic retards

>>713518627
>>713518658
>>713518871
Okay Toby.

Toby Fox is a modder who happened to make an original game, but without shaking off his modder mentality. Everything he does is extremely derivative of things he thinks are cool.
This is quite common in all creative fields: there is a truly creative minority that inspires everyone, and there are the competent ones who know how to make entertaining things, but who don't have that same creativity, so they draw heavily on that creative minority for inspiration.
Personally, I think the first category (which Toby Fox is not included in) is the really interesting one. I prefer something a little crude, but which is the result of true originality, rather than the more polished things that come later, based on the creativity of the true pioneers.

>>713519810
>fast forward several decades
>alex yard is on his deathbed after living on welfare because he never got an actual career
>the only people who know his name are random people on /v/ who think he's a retarded schizo
>toby fox has been happily retired for years
>alex is furiously typing on his laptop, trying to convince people that toby fox is a plagiarist
>"i got him this time" he thinks
>"this is the one. toby fox is finally going to prison"
>beep beep beep
>right before alex hits submit, his hand stops
>beep beep beep
>he starts to think "j-just one more post, just one more video, everyone will change their minds..."
>his body goes limp
>BEEEEEEEEEEP

>>713520238
But that's just a theory...a music theory!

>>713519841
Hussie is almost 50 and he now unironically identifies as "clown gendered" in an unironic sense

>>713519945
>"also, the last boss music was a little inspired by brandish 2's, see if you can catch the similarities" - Toby Fox on the making of Radiation's Halloween Hack.
>"This is it, the final boss theme. I wanted to put Live A Live's Megalomania in here but I didn't get to so I made my own last boss song. I pretty much just yelled whatever I felt like into a mike and copied it down. Yep. Took forever, but it was superkickass-worth-it. Total embodiment of final bossitude." - Toby Fox. The Making of Radiation's Halloween Hack.
>Your Best Friend see pic related
>Dating Start uses the exact sound font from Phoenix Wright meaning it was intentional
>One True Love and Dungeon play during scenes parodying FFVI scenes meaning it was intentional
>Powers Combined plays during the Megazord vs Giga Queen fight meaning it was intentional
>Bonetrousle is Papyrus' theme (who wants Asgore to make a skull hedge in his honor) and Die Hasen plays in a Black Butler scene showing a garden full of skull hedges
>Once Upon A Time and the Mother title theme play at the same place in each respective game and we know for a fact Toby loves Mother
>the Touhou melodies are obvious and we know Toby is a huge 2hufag
I'm glad you finally realized you're schizophrenic

>>713520360
Now you're reminding me why I hate Toby Fox.
I'll never forget that tweet.
It was so obnoxious.

>>713520018
You are clearly not knowledgeable on the subject if you think there is finate ways to create tension. You don't even understand what tension is. You can't define it, you think it's a technique you fail to understand that tension is the only tool that a composer has, you don't understand theory nor practice.
Seeing how you are talking about midi and daw it is clear you aren't trained you are self though (probably never learned any theory to begin with) and such you have holes in your knowledge.

IT'S OK FOR TOBY TO STEAL SOUNDS FROM MARIO PAINT AND SPONGEBOB AND EARTHBOUND AND SONIC AND MCDONALDS AND MEGA MAN X AND CAVE STORY BECAUSE................. BECAUSE IT JUST IS OK????

>>713520118
I thought the point was to try and sue him for internet points like how Karl Jobst tried to expose Billy Mitchell's cheating, only to be rebuked by Mitchell breaking his past scores live, and then deciding to try and push his point anyway long past the point of reason using the stupidest method possible.

>>713520341
>>713519285
>Toby Fox is a modder who happened to make an original game, but without shaking off his modder mentality. Everything he does is extremely derivative of things he thinks are coo

Yeah he just takes everything. Even inoccuous stuff like Toriel hanging out with 'Mr. Sans' in the ending of Chapter 4 of Deltarune is literally taking from Earthbound's ending where Lardna Minch shacks up with 'Mr. Prettyman'.

His games are like clippings of other games just stitched together into a Frankenstein.

>>713520392
you are just low IQ.
these are not admission or proof of plagiarism you fucking brainlet.

>>713516281
>cereal commercial beat

>>713520558
No, what happened was jobst accused billy of causing someone's suicide (despite billy not being mentioned in the suicide note), getting sued for defamation, and then made a bunch of videos lying about why he was being sued to trick people into thinking that he was being sued because of the cheating allegations. Notch hired a lawyer for him who told him to cut that shit out and just apologize, he then fired the lawyer and continued his scam where he would make videos insisting that that the lawsuit was about cheating.

>>713518710
Homestuck ended over a decade ago. Nowadays Hussie is a clown in the literalest sense >>713520382 and he should had moved onto another project desu instead of trying to reset Homestuck multiple times to lengthen it.

TOBY INVENTED LEITMOTIFS
TOBY INVENTED SPOOKYPASTA FINAL BOSSES
TOBY INVENTED FURSHIT
TOBY INVENTED SHMUPS
TOBY INVENTED QUIRKY DIALOGUE
TOBY INVENTED SKELETONS
TOBY INVENTED COMIC SANS
TOBY INVENTED SECRET DIFFICULTY SPIKE FINAL BOSSES REACHED THROUGH UNINTUITIVE MEANS THAT ARE SHORT BALD GUYS WITH A BIG GRIN AND A SINGLE GLOWING EYE THAT ARE BROTHERS TO AN INCONSEQUENTIAL MAIN CHARACTER
TOBY INVENTED DOGE
TOBY INVENTED FLOWERS
TOBY INVENTED HOMESTUCK
TOBY INVENTED GAY PEOPLE
TOBY INVENTED EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TOBY IS GOD!!!!!! TOBY IS MY FRIEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>713520074
>notice how these songs all have a beginning, middle and end??? rlly makes u think!!!
holy fucking christ
>i'm going to make up a term wholesale (major composition checkpoint) and use it to back up my argument!
i've addressed everything he considers a "major composition checkpoint" and how they are commonplace and common practice.
>now for my big smoking gun... a progression that doesn't even use all the same quality of chords!!!
hey, >>713518796 have you taken the time to let this anon and Alex know that chords aren't song?

lmfao. Alex can't even keep his own examples straight. first he's trying to compare a i-v-VI-VII to a i-V-VII-VI, then he brings up the i-VII-VI-V. yeah wow a chord progression that literally has been used since ancient Greece and has its own name. no one could have possibly though to use it on their own, it must be le plagiarized from this random fucking 2001 track no one's heard of!!!

>now listen to me completely change the rhythm and play it over Gerudo Valley
this kid is an absolute fucking clown.

>>713519557
i don't give a shit about tolkien either didn't even know it was from him, i wasn't calling him evil either.

>>713520341
>Toby Fox is a modder who happened to make an original game, but without shaking off his modder mentality
that's the most succinct way of putting it

>>713520609
You have schizophrenia

>>713520765
He actually recently paid viz to take back control.

>>713516281

>>713520893
>i've addressed everything he considers a "major composition checkpoint" and how they are commonplace and common practice.
And I've addressed how five of them lining up in the same order in one song is unlikely to be a cosmic coincidence

>>713516490
>>713520102
>>713520648
literally the same as memehope's music but you didn't grow up with it

I'm a musictheorylet, can someone explain how the "structures" this guy presented in the video aren't very similar to the other song? Or is he just pointing out shit that most songs do?

>>713520552
It's okay for literally anyone to do that. You won't catch me defending giant corpos lol

>>713520118
>I totally COULD make my own indie game that blows the fuck up and ingrains my music into the minds and ears of millions. I just choose not to!

>>713521031
The songs sound the same and have the same structure on paper in theory, the only people that disagree are part of TDF (Toby Defense Force) and are not to be taken seriously

>>713518218
toby fox and neil cicierega are the only talented young internet millennials to ever exist

>>713520908
>"HE ADMITTED TO THE PLAGIARISM"
>"really show me"
>" here -> toby : also, the last boss music was a little inspired by brandish "
KEK like a said, low IQ

>>713511976
track sounds cool, and even more spanish/italian than bonetrousle and heartaches mariachi tones.
based espanotale.

>>713521131
refer to >>713520908

>>713520201
except you can clearly see in the notation he himself provides that the rhythms are not identical, just somewhat similar.
somewhat similar != plagiarism.

>>713519672
He took all of that from other sources. Even his conlangs were based on real ones.

>>713520765
>>713520941
also hussie being insane made it so hard to do business with him that people just stopped bothering and now he has to find random companies to give out licenses to just to make money lmao

>>713521180
>somewhat similar != plagiarism
But also
>somewhat similar != not plagiarism

>>713520765
>>713520941
>>713521201
>He actually recently paid viz to take back control.
kek what the fuck does he even plan to do with it? he himself torpedoed the IP into the fucking ground from spite

>>713520973
>unlikely to be a cosmic coincidence
you're right, it's a mathematical coincidence.
because, as i have been repeating, its down to the nature of music and the tuning system we have been using for the past 500+ years.
they are in that order because they sound good in that order and have been used in that order by a fucking dozen other songs.

>>713521201
Anyone remember when the only thing that set Hussie apart from the hundreds of other MS PAINT-illustrated forums game DMs was the fact his didn't suddenly end after a month of boredom and ADHD?

>>713510047
If you’re the creator of this video you should’ve just copied the post some anon always posts with like 20x tracks where Toby fox almost copied them 1 to 1 but you decided to go after this one?

lmao ofc he ripped it off, you think that faggot actually composed his shit from scratch?

>>713521449
And as I have been repeating, that's too many coincidences in a row
>and have been used in that order by a fucking dozen other songs.
I'm sure you'll be able to post 12 songs that sound the same as these two and have the same structure on paper

>>713521487
>If you’re the creator of this video you should’ve just copied the post some anon always posts with like 20x tracks where Toby fox almost copied them 1 to 1 but you decided to go after this one?

But anon, that would be plagiarism

About Toby Fox's music, I don't think the point here is really plagiarism. He's not plagiarizing. The point is that practically ALL of his songs seem derivative of other compositions (usually just a single composition), and then again we have the idea of the "modder". It's as if he's modifying songs he likes.
Of course, if you analyze any musician, you're probably going to find a number of influences, but it's one thing to determine influences, and another thing to be able to line up all of a composer's work and show that there's a "sibling" song to that one.
That's not so common, I think. I may be wrong, however, perhaps it is indeed possible to take any composer and show that all of their songs have another song by a third party that influenced them, that sounds very similar.

Note: In my opinion, that doesn't make Toby Fox a fraud or anything like that. I think he's good at what he's doing. But I think he's a "modder" at heart.

>>713520413
>nuh-uh there are actually infinite ways to create tension look as i flop my hands around randomly on this piano i am so knowledgeable unlike you!!!
lmao

>You don't even understand what tension is. You can't define it
the building of expectation, unease or instability created by moving from an established tonal pattern or tonic home. odd that you were so keen to jerk your pencil dick over the philosophy of INTERPRETATION and FEELING but are reluctant to apply that same view towards tension. what you consider tense will not be what others do.

>it is clear you aren't trained you are self though
i would say by your spelling mistakes and weird grammar it is clear you are ESL, but let's focus on the actual issues.
like your absolute lack of substance. you give no concrete examples or take any solid position, you simply try to dance around and hope it's enough to keep you from being caught.
it's not lol
try putting forth an actual argument that cites actual theory as an example this time instead of puerile deflection
>U DON'T KNO U DON'T KNO
or effete attempts at belittlement.

>>713521442
random merch deals have been happening lately so probably just that

>>713520893
I love how dunning-kruger you are, fuck you don't even understand how hilariously wrong you are. You keep coping about Alex as if anyone is arguing against him and not you.

It's actually very common to copy things in art. The only problem is when you go "Nuh uh I never copied anything" instead of "Oh yeah that part is based off Raining blood, great song."

>>713521238
>>somewhat similar != not plagiarism
not according to the courts, anon.

>>713511976
Dude, I fucking love beta Spear of Justice

>>713521997
nobody cares gaylord

>>713521553
>and have the same structure on paper
they don't even have the same structure as each other, as the notation Alex himself provides shows.
not the same time signature, not the same rhythm, not the same key or mode, not even the same progression.

>>713508384 (OP)
Not an Undertale fan but this is super gay. There's millions of songs out there, of course there will be a song out there that sounds nearly the same

>>713521485
he was already somewhat well known before homestuck is the difference. all of those other attempts from other people were just people who thought it would be an easy way to get popular and like most people without talent, gave up after a month because they weren't immediately successful.

>>713522109

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharrell_Williams_v._Bridgeport_Music

>>713510047
always thought it was inspired by Holst and if that's the case, Toby is uber based

>>713522253
>"copy my homework but don't make it too obvious"

>>713518248
"lol"? Okay, you've convinced me otherwise

>>713522162
I care, I find this fascinating.
I try to understand sometimes why someone who clearly has talent still gets stuck in the modder mindset instead of actually creating things "from scratch".
The most obvious explanation is that the quality of what the guy produces is much higher when he's taking direct inspiration from something he likes. This bothers people, though, especially fans, because it's something that clearly diminishes the artist.

>>713522105
i love how you can't actually pick any holes in my argument and instead have to go
>no ur wrong!!!
lmao

yeah, i'm the dunning-kruger one, totes. now quick, google some theory terms and try to craft a counterargument or fuck off the tip of my dick.

>>713522519
>because it's something that clearly diminishes the artist
in your eyes

>>713522519
remixing stuff and standing on the shoulders of giants is literally how great authors work their magic. see the anxiety of influences
don't let the copyright mafia convince you otherwise. they only care about stoping all copying while doing all the copying themselves

>>713522461
they're not the same. not in any way. any similarities you see is just your schizophrenia acting up, Alex.

I just want to take the say that I used to think Tobys best work came from his days working at Homestuck but Deltarune is reaching the point where I'd say he passed his previous peak.
his sanctuary themes are really fucking good
https://youtu.be/yfo0U1HNqX0?si=9voy3AGoMWrd3j3k

second and third sanctuary being some highlights with him getting technical with his time signature switching.
https://youtu.be/De0FDShxgrs?si=j9wr_pAXmoUnF_IU
https://youtu.be/hGLrgQ_UuHg?si=TQhKWsyfrATadAs7

>>713517990
Avantasia - No Return

The guitar solo is to die for

>>713522703
See and eye and an ear doctor

>>713508384 (OP)
Most hit songs are just the same 4 or 5 open chords anyway, so who cares?

>>713518057
What family?

>>713522015
Your definition of tension is as flawed as your understanding of music theory. Why do you think you have any right to talk about this subject?

>>713520861
>TOBY INVENTED SECRET DIFFICULTY SPIKE FINAL BOSSES REACHED THROUGH UNINTUITIVE MEANS THAT ARE SHORT BALD GUYS WITH A BIG GRIN AND A SINGLE GLOWING EYE THAT ARE BROTHERS TO AN INCONSEQUENTIAL MAIN CHARACTER

Alright i´ll bite, but just because i can´t think of the other case where this happened.

>>713522083
>>713521201
jesus christ hes actually a full blown schizo, it wasnt just a character play
how did toby dealt with this fucker under his roof for years?

>>713522617
No, it's just a logical conclusion, which is why it ends up bothering fans.
If it were just a matter of opinion, people would just say: "Yeah, he's inspired by others, so what? His thigs are cool, and that's what matters!"
But people can abstract the logic behind things:
>artist tries to create an original work of art
>the result is mediocre
>artist creates a work of art based on something made by another artist
>the result is something good

Conclusion:
>the artist in question is better at copying other artists than at creating his own art

This natural, logical conclusion isn't exactly flattering. And this is what makes Toby Fox's fans so defensive when people point out that all of his work is highly derivative of things created by others.

>>713523120
He took the idea from Mario RPG

>>713523120
I mena, secret difficulty spike final bosses aren't even in undertale, and this is a really specific set of things.

As for secret super hard bosses, super common. A route that makes the rest of the game really east except for a couple secret bosses as part of another ending? I don't think anyone has done that.

>>713522695
No, I've already made it clear in my other posts that I don't consider influence and direct inspiration to be the same thing.
I think Toby Fox is a modder at heart, not an artist being influenced by masters.

>>713523284
>If it were just a matter of opinion, people would just say: "Yeah, he's inspired by others, so what? His thigs are cool, and that's what matters!"
I say that, though.

>>713508384 (OP)
All I have to say on the subject is that plagiarism is based and more people should steal shit and put a different coat of paint on it.

>>713523221
Pretty sure he got worse with the years, by the time he went fully nuts and wrecked Homestuck Toby long since escaped his basement.

>>713520341
whats that in your pic? a gta japan mod?

>>713522914
take your Zyprexa.

we need to put you autists into death camps

>>713523035
>puerile deflection, effete belittlement
and you failed. still clenching your sloppy ring as tight as you can around my helmet.

>>713508384 (OP)
hymen status?

>>713523284
>this is plagiarized
>no it isn't
>see that's proof that it is
Literal fucking kafka trap.

Japan, land of plagiarism.

>>713523289
>>713523335
It's not just the difficulty spike secret boss., it's everything together. Who else besides sans is a short bald guy with a big grin and a single glowing eye that's brothers with an inconsequential game character, who is ALSO a secret difficulty spike super boss?

>>713523894
Did Toby move to Japan there so he could get away with plagiarism x_X

>>713523284
>artist tries to create an original work of art
Ahh yes the famous work of art with no inspiration of anything whatsoever.
god you are retarded.

>>713523714
It's pouring rain so yes. But I will school you.
Tension is a fundamental building block, its intrinsic quality creates instability, expectation and dynamic energy within musical structure.
You can contribute tension to following features
Dissonance
Rhythmic displacement
Melodic expectation
And dynamics among other features.
Your fundamental misunderstanding of music theory shows why you don't understand what Alex is saying, you do not comprehend music.

>>713523939
but Jinx isn't bald, has two eyes and is the size of a small toy.

>>713523939
>Who else besides sans is a short bald guy with a big grin and a single glowing eye that's brothers with an inconsequential game character, who is ALSO a secret difficulty spike super boss?

Bonetail

>>713524131
Right, but it's not about silhouette parity—it's the whole archetype. The quirky, deceptively strong out-of-place character who breaks the tone and escalates to a bizarre meta battle. Jinx just happens to be the clearest early precedent. People get hung up on the superficial stuff when it’s the functional and narrative role that's being echoed. Sans didn’t crawl outta a void, he took notes from B-class bosses and then rewrote the book.

>>713523997
>But I will school you.
you would have to actually state something first. you're too afraid to quote any actual established theory instead of gibbering about INTENT and FEELING. lmao
>Tension is important to music
you don't say??? wow, teacher, you must have studied for years!!!
>now watch me use some if the same exact words you used to describe tension, then tell you how you misunderstand
now watch me call you an unhinged obsessive, just like the kid you're trying to defend.
you do not comprehend music, you just want to stick it to Toby Fox for finding success.

>>713508384 (OP)
there's only twelve notes in the western music notation

>>713524439
Your lack of knowledge of music theory shows you cannot comment on this video. You are fuckibg moron.

>>713524307
>people get hung up on the glaring differences when it's the vague bullshit that's being echoed

>>713524307
>it's the whole archetype.
but Jinx's archetype is that of the wise martial master who imparts his skills to his pupils.
Sans is a lazy oaf.
>People get hung up on the superficial stuff
i would say that's exactly what you're doing, trying to find a way to connect these very disparate characters and personalities.
just like Alex is reaching to try and make connections between two very different pieces of music.

>>713524548
your ESL is showing again. your lack of knowledge of English shows you cannot reply to my posts. maybe you should have spent more time in that class instead of the music hall.

>generic power metal riff
>let's make a 40 minute video about this

>>713524662
Oh no, I know more than one language? How terrible.
You don't know music theory you cannot comment on this subject at all.

>>713525265
you don't have an argument. i accept your concession. isn't it about time for you to lift your sloppy, used hole off my rod?

>>713525376
My argument is that your understanding of the argument is flawed and you are retarded. Pretty simple to understand that you are the problem not Alex's video.

Alex, give the fuck up. You're not taking down Fox, you're not taking down Lope, and you're definitely not taking down Kirkhope.

Is this a stealth stroj thread?

>>713525491
your argument is nothing and based entirely on personal conjecture. if you keep handing me these concessions, i'm gonna need a truck!

Alex is still a clueless, bitter clown and will be remembered as such.

>>713517537
>y-youre just jealous
absolutely kindergarten tier argument

>>713525069
it's not even in the top 5 songs of the either.
An utter waste of time, especially when you consider there are actual ripoff examples in the game already.

>>713525920
>and will be remembered as such
It's charitable to think he'll be remembered at all.

>>713525642
That's what Toby wants you think anon

>>713525920
Lol, you are really fuckibg struggling.
You came here talking about music now that you have been shows as absolute faggots you keep talking about sophistry. Funny. Get fucked moron.

>>713523894
To be fair, whenever Japan copied something, they also improved it which usually made everyone involved happy.

>>713518458
Lol, Gen-Z was a mistake.

>>713526487
>guy who had no actual arguments and instead tried to philosophize on intent, feeling and emotion while trying to pass his personal views off as concrete theory makes a comment on sophistry
lol
lmao

>>713526793
>I'm going to keep crying
keep on coping faggot.

>>713518284
>Implying Toby isn't "Let me reuse this leitmotif" the musician

>>713527090
>i'm going to keep bouncing on your dick
i know you are, you're as desperate for attention as that witless fuck Alex.

>>713527207
Keep on coping faggot. You lost only argument you had

>>713527293
i won them all since i actually provided evidence and you kept fucking drooling all over yourself saying
>u don't kno u don't know bloody benchod feeling intent tension tension tension
lol

you're really trying to suck all the flavor out of my nuts, aren't you

>>713527407
You won fuck all. You lost the second you encaged with ne without any knowledge of music theory you fuckibg moron.
You have nothing. You are an idiot who doesn't understand what music analysis is. A faggot.

>>713527090
You've changed nothing, schizoid.

>>713527474
the icing on your shitty cake is that you've shown no actual knowledge of music theory, you've stated none, you've put forth no examples.
i know enough about analysis to see two completely different tracks in different time signatures, different keys, different modes, different rhythms and different progressions.
i'm just not unhinged, bitter and obsessive enough to try and somehow spin it all into a case for plagiarism off a 24 year old track by some literal who.

>>713511250
Hundreds more arrived in the meantime

>>713527727
>i know enough about analysis to see two completely different tracks in different time signatures, different keys, different modes, different rhythms and different progressions.
And not enough to know music can be plagiarized despite that

>>713527727
Keep on coping faggot. You failed to prove your point and we're shown that you know jack shit. Now you are coping. Go play with your daw and make your shitty midi tracks. You failure of life.

>>713527880
>this song shares nothing in common, so of COURSE it's plagiarized!! how? uh er um vibes
haha fucking wut

>>713527924
aw sweaty you have no argument. you're just riding to try and get out every last drop at this point.

just wait until gamers realize that all video game (and anime) composers are thieving hacks

>>713528184
Toby Fox lacks the talent to even qualify as a hack

I can't say anything about the music other than him completly stealing mother music and sound effects. Dude can't play the piano but then again, you don't need to be a good composer these days to shart out basic bitch music for shitty vidya.


https://youtu.be/2c6iJYtU6D0?t=3074

>>713528109
>>this song shares nothing in common, so of COURSE it's plagiarized!! how? uh er um vibes
>haha fucking wut
You type like an esteemed Doctor of Musical Arts

just wait until these anons realize that there's only 12 notes in 12-tone equal temperament and only so many ways to fit them together that doesn't sound like an absolute mess.

>>713528296
you put forth evidence like a true scholar

>>713528316
Tell it to the judge

Does Alex Yard even have actual fans?

>>713528109
>I have shown to know nothing
>You have no argument
Lol, lmao. What a coping faggot.

>>713528384
Alex put forth evidence and all you did was throw a tantrum about how it doesn't count

>>713528238
>Toby Fox lacks the talent to even qualify as a hack
This but unironically. He's too low IQ, he just imitates and copy pastes stuff from other games thinking that it's cool.

>>713515671
No wonder he causes so much seethe around here

>>713523894
Half of them are just total bs tho
I guess some butthurt gook or muttoid made this while seething

>>713528539
but i literally commented directly on his evidence and how the materials he, himself, provided do not show similarities.

>>713528316
>and only so many ways to fit them together that doesn't sound like an absolute mess.
This in particular is why I can't take these niggers seriously. Their standards of originality would require architects to design buildings that collapse under their own weight and chefs to serve poison.

>>713528637
which half, cuz most look legit to me. there are a few duplicates, yeah. like some of the Felix, Miffy and Birds Eye ones. but the Jap designs are very obviously based on the western ones.

>>713517537
>Point out plagiarism
>"STOP SEETHING GUIIISE, YOU ARE JUST JEALOUS"

>Plagiarism: America
:|
>Pagiarism: Japan
:0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kACUvrjJSI

>>713529220
>invent cases of plagiarism wholesale, citing examples of songs that aren't remotely similar, inventing your own terms to help you, and going off on various wild tangents that have nothing to do with the case you're trying to make
>"None of you are KNOWLEDGEABLE or STUDIED enough to COMPREHEND my DEEP ANALYSIS"

>>713529521
NO one likes troons or zoomers that's why NGE is ok and Deltatroon is not

>>713528683
>mixing up utilities with entertainment
This is why everyone hates you disingenuous faggots

>>713529624
You also have a music degree?

>>713529521
eh, timpani and brass stabs are common enough this might just be coincidence.
here's an actual case, for example

https://youtu.be/M2F_heuAWcU?si=1jgSqKzVl6YYK6Sh&t=83
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZktSPrGSck&t=36s

>>713508384 (OP)
did this guy even claim to have any kind of qualification? he sounds like he's just parroting other surface level music theory youtube videos

Undertrannyfags are the new Sonicfags. Embarrassing.

>>713529893
so this is the power of a music degree...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGX5LXKk34M&t=1147s

>>713529826
>architecture isn't art

>>713530537
You making shit up reinforces my argument, I said it's not entertainment

Alex makes good music theory videos and I enjoy them a lot. But he clearly has some kinda autism to think that Toby and TeeLopes are actively conspiring against him and to hold 10 hour streams going off on one about it all.

Musicians plagiarise all the time, intentionally or subconsciously. You're going to have songs that sound similar to each other just from that fact there's only so many different variants of chord progressions, scales, rhythms, etc. that you can use to evoke the feeling you're trying to convey.

It's sad, because he makes good videos. Bro just needs to accept he is wrong on this one

>>713530252
True he should've ripped off Kirby's Block Ball Stage 7 and claimed he composed it instead

>>713530770
I think you're just going to have to accept your repressed homosexuality given how desperate you are to suck Toby's dick

>>713530962
Is this really worth ruining your career over?

>>713530962
>make retarded claims
>anon goes "you are wrong"
>"uhmm why are you defending them??"
Why is this so common on /v/? And the internet?

his best songs are from homestuck anyway

>>713530962
He composed megalovania as a teenager for a shity earthbound hack in 2008, which was orchestrated and played only the other day for thousands in a place he probably didn't even know existed back then. Not to mention being played for the pope as well as all across the states and japan.

Who's really repressing their homosexuality here?

>>713531356
>keeps sucking dick

>>713531086
You're deaf and also gay

>>713530643
Yes, I'm well aware that you knew you were making a dishonest argument as you were typing it. The entire point of those comparisons is that they are other forms of art constrained by relatively strict rules to be functional at all. You understood this perfectly well which is why you tried to pilpul your way out despite it not even making any sense. Any building that is not entirely utilitarian in its design is passive entertainment on the same level as ambient music. And plenty of chefs are active entertainers.
And thanks for going ahead and conceding on the actual argument about plagiarism.

Yeah it's shit like this why I'll never play his games. He made it only because he's jewish. If he were anyone else he'd been sued long time ago.

>>713530820
it would have been an improvement over ripping off a Cocomelon background track.

>>713532060
he's not jewish

>>713510047
I don't know how much I trust the comments as it seems like a lot of Undertale fans and those fuckers are never going to criticize Toby on anything despite him absolutely deserving it. Not sure how genuine those comments are.

>>713508384 (OP)
>Toby Fox obsessed loser thread
love him or hate him you're all faggots who do nothing but post about him all day every day. Fuck you and fuck your general threads.

>>713533039
He very much is jew

>>713510047
this is retarded
there is a video about gaster leitmotif brainrot somewhere that is pretty much about this type of shit where people just imagine similarities

>>713533194
nope, look at his early life

>>713508384 (OP)
truthnuke is that undertale fans don't give one iota of a shit about whether or not it's plagiarized. they'll slurp it up regardless and label you as envious of toby's success. they're like magatards in this regard, making up narratives and avoiding reality to suit their needs. i.e. a cult.

>>713533101
What is the explanation for the people he's supposedly plagiarizing being friends with him? He's blackmailing them?

>>713518458
>knocks it out of the park with an absolute banger of a game, then reveals its only a warmup for his magnum opus dream game.
Deltarune is never going to be as good as Undertale but you wont know that for another decade with how lazy Toby is

>>713533360
why would anyone give a shit about music "plagarism"

>>713533176
post about who? Toby Fox?
that's because he released a game literally less than 3 weeks ago and it outsold Nightreign, anon.

>>713533425
not saying you should care, but the question is
>is it, or is it not, plagiarism?
and if it is, why can't these weirdos admit it?

>>713533519
And if it isn't, why can't you admit it?

>>713533519
why are you asking the question? have you just never listened to music before?

>>713533519
there's probably plagiarism in Undertale tracks somewhere, but it definitely hasn't been posted ITT yet.

>>713533602
I can but it doesn't look like it's original music to me. at least, there are some pretty crazy similarities between toby's tracks and the examples they're juxtaposed against.
>>713533607
what a stupid question.

>>713533696
>what a stupid question.
I can't believe all modern pop music is plagarized
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlDewpCfZQ

>>713533865
not this shit again. if you take it and tweak it only just enough, you could call it a remix, or perhaps an homage. if you want it to be viewed as an original work then yours needs to be distinguishable enough on its own that the differences outweigh the similarities.

1. there are a limited number of notes that we use in music, but they repeat into infinity. all of the examples in this video use the same key/chord progression/time signature/etc. but the "creativity" comes through the arrangement of other instruments and the harmonies/melodies that ultimately result because music is an arrangement.
2. there's a huge list of songs that someone put together comparing toby's tracks with well known vidya music tracks from various franchises. some of them are more similar than others, but the point remains that if you're going to rip off ("be inspired by") something you have to at least change it enough that you're not taking it wholesale, and well if you've got an ear for music some of his tracks are pretty fucking questionable.
3. don't be butthurt about it, in the end I really don't give a shit, but you being butthurt about it is definitely going to mean that this topic will never be forgotten and will always be eventually brought up again because it makes you so bootyblasted so easily.

>>713534487
this is not an opinion you could possibly hold if you actually listen to music much less study it with any seriousness

>>713534565
yes it can.

>>713534487
>I really don't give a shit
>posts 200 times in one thread
lmao

>>713534565
>and well if you've got an ear for music some of his tracks are pretty fucking questionable
which part of the anon's post did you not understand?

>>713534656
sorry but you're mistaking me for someone else.

>>713534487

>>713508384 (OP)
Toby fox has always had this problem. Has no one heard it? All his music sound the same and are in the same style. That is his biggest flaw. Even in that Touhou collab game, he could not make it sound new and unique. Same with the music on the new pokemon games.

>>713534487
>point 2.
so you dismiss the Axis vid because it uses the same instrumentation but give weight to the examples used against Toby even though he uses completely different patches with totally different timbres? as well as different rhythms and intervals? huh?
>anyone who disagrees with me is le mad buttehart
pssst, i'm not even the anon you're replying to.

the most damning example against Toby is that Kirby block ball song. everything else is generic fucking shit like ii-V-Is or basic voice leading.

>>713534858
Only reason nobody goes after him is because he's a kike, and masons and other kikes don't go after kikes.

>>713510047
Toby cocksuckers unironically defended him plagiarizing literature, they don't have any moral standards

>>713535297
He's Episcopalian, faggot

>>713534768
I mean you can cry about it all you want but I'm not the only one who has noticed the similarities between those tracks and toby's, so go ahead and imply that I'm "music illiterate" or whatever this is supposed to mean. it's amusing to see how buttblasted you are tho.
>>713534859
>same instrumentation
the instrumentation ins't the point, the video is pointing out how repetitive music is in essence, because those four chords are the basis for so many popular songs. however, a chord progression is like the basis for a song, and saying
>look at how many songs share this same chord progression!
is similar to saying
>look at how many buildings are built with the same exact type of brick!!!
and then going on to declare that an ORIGINAL_ARCHITECTURAL_DESIGN isn't plagiarism despite bearing a striking resemblance to some famous building because a huge number of buildings are made of the same materials. it's apologetics I guess.

and there are at least a few songs that are questionable, not just the kirby song. but I'll be charitable and say that he doesn't rip off the songs in their entirety, just bits and pieces are taken wholesale from various tracks. maybe he doesn't even realize he's doing it.

>>713523939
ballos

>>713508384 (OP)
>>713510047
The backlash this video got is great, because that means I can freely plagiarize the music for my game, and no one will care if I have a rabid fanbase that will defend me for free.

>>713508384 (OP)
Tobias fox fucker is a faggot but not for the music. Mostly because hes a coward & a user.

>>713536273
no one cares even if you don't have a rabid fanbase
only lawyers for record labels looking for an easy paycheck care about music plagarism

>>713508384 (OP)
Toby's music okay but it's nothing ground breaking, as someone who has studied music theory on my own time. Seeing all the videos that are like "A MUSICAL ANALYSIS OF DELTARUNE" and it's just talking about leitmotifs is really cringe. IMO leitmotifs are important for musical storytelling, but overuse is a crutch. Otherwise the theory in all the songs are nothing impressive.

>>713530252
A degree doesn't necesarily mean he is a great composer but at least he can analyze music pieces. Do you think videogame critics are great developers?

>>713537124
if he can analyze flaws in other people's music why can't he do it with his own

>>713535652
do you realize you're downplaying the importance of chord progressions in relation to plagiarism and still trying to pin, let's say, "aggressive inspiration" onto Toby's work?
ok so if the chord progressions dont count, and we've established Toby uses different instrumentation, and we can hear that he's using different time signatures, and we can see that he's using different intervals in the notation... why are the origins of these tracks "questionable?" where's that coming from, your gut feeling?

does it even matter anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mwiO5st-us

>>713537124
it doesn't look like it means he's a great analyzer either. he's desperately trying to find connection between two tracks that we can see from his own materials share little in common, inventing his own language and terms instead of using those established in theory, and going off on wild tangents unrelated to his points.

>>713537219
Criticism and creativity have never been related the same way athletic prowess and coaching prowess are unrelated

>>713537738
lethal dose of copium

>>713516281
>talks all this theory and analysis
>presents one of his pieces
>it's fucking awful slop that wouldn't even be played by a middle school marching band if it was handed to them for free

>>713537618
Ok but Toby plagiarized yes or no?

>>713537397
The fact multiple of his songs sound the same as other existing songs that Toby is guaranteed to have been exposed to, your autistic clinging to raw theory is as stupid as saying
>these pictures don't have any pixels lining up anywhere, all the colors are different, they have a different subject matter that's actually very common for paintings and depict different time periods with different methods and styles, they're obviously not copied
When it's obvious to anyone with a pair of eyes that this is a copy

>>713537397
look man I said what I came to say in this thread. I'm not gonna have a lengthy autistic argument with you about the fundamentals of music theory alright? like I said before I don't give that much of a shit. honestly, tell me, why do you care so much? did you have a hand in the development of these musical tracks? or do you just really want your idol mr. faux to be revered as some musical genius?
>>713537606
that's called sampling and you usually have to get permission from the original artist in order to use it for your own purposes. some of the most popular songs ever created might've sampled something else, see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7reiN0f-Zkk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss142Aix2Bo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOMhN-hfMtY

>>713511359
>what is with autistics jumping into suicide argument pits?
because under no circumstances can an autistic person of that degree ever admit fault of any kind in their way of thinking, everyone else is wrong in that regard

>>713517537
>spammed everywhere to an even worse extent than ponies ever were
>shitty game
>oh noooo killing the enemies that are trying to kill you is bad actually
>fans think players are bad people if they do the "genocide run" and harass anyone doing it on youtube/twitch/etc.
>fans are all furries and like the series for the porn and gay/lesbian ships exclusively

>>713533405
>Deltarune is never going to be as good as Undertale
It was better than Undertale by the time the first chapter dropped.

>>713538197
Perfectly describes Tobyfags who deny stuff like Your Best Friend being a ripoff of F.U.N even when presented with hard evidence

>>713538231
>>spammed everywhere to an even worse extent than ponies ever were
Not even close. You either weren't there or don't remember just how fucking popular MLP was. Undertale never made national news.

How hard is it to self learn the keyboard / piano? I wish I could play UTDR music on one.

>>713538432
There was a big board with Sans and Papyrus on the wall in my school for a while. Undertale fucking absolutely made national news level. It was a phenomenon. It wasn't the same TYPE of phenomenon as MLP, but it was enormous.

>>713537917
somewhere, probs. but it hasn't been posted itt yet.

Reminder that most of the music you listen to including most of the music you like either samples, references, or is inspired by (and has similarities to) an earlier piece of music.

>>713538458
any musical instrument is going to have a physical component, so as long as you can get that part down, i.e. develop the necessary dexterity and coordination, the rest is just learning basic music theory.

>>713538538
I'm sure the documentary about undertale fans is coming any day now

>>713538538
Alright, show me national news coverage of Undertale.
>y-you first
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MxodxsBgaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqEDIFfy4Yg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o9AsY_MCqM&pp=ygUMQnJvbmllcyBuZXdz

>>713510047
You will criticize toby over this I will criticize him over not being able to romance the bitches outside of the burger joint

tl;dr
manchild drama on /v/

>muh plagiarizing
who cares, as long as it sounds good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ0U9C6lxas

>>713538065
except in the example you provide we can see the similarities in perspective, subject, placement and composition.
now let's look at the example Alex posted >>713514405
different time signatures, different key, different mode, different rhythm, different progression...
rly mkes u tink

>>713533236
>search his early life in a jewish occupied website trust me bro
he's Jewish, nice try schlomo

>>713532060
>>713533194
Post proof or you're lying through your teeth.
>inb4 "h-he just is bro trust me..."

>>713538071
>why did you come in this thread dedicated to a specific topic of conversation just to engage with that topic???
idk man guess I should be posting AI generated pics of Lammy getting fucked by Zebra DK

>become the most successful and famous indie game dev in history
>suddenly, people start accusing you of being a criminal
They hate him cause they ain't him.

>>713538949
alright, toby. chalk my disinterest up as another internet argument won for you. good job. btw my favorite track is the asgore theme.

>>713536273
The court of public opinion is a funny thing, it's basically entirely dependent on how popular and well-liked you are, Toby is popular with autistic kids who think he's their friend so they'd find a way to excuse him even if he pirated and shipped an MP3 of an existing song he didn't make in his games as this thread is close to showing, whereas if you took one of the songs he ripped off and altered it the same amount he did or even more, you'd be accused or ripping HIM off

This already happened when YIIK got into hot water for having a line in the game that was copied from a book without being disclosed because people didn't like the creator and were just looking for more reasons to dogpile him, whereas the same exact thing happened in UT and people didn't care or called Toby based when they found out and said the usual "it's just a homage" line

>>713538267
the first chapter relied solely on Undertakes success to gain any traction.
the first thing you do after making your vessel is drive through the town and see all the monsters living happily on the surface.
no one would have given a shit without the prior connection, and definitely no one would have given a shit with how long the game's development is taking

>>713539074
that's true plagarism is a total non crime that only (((copyright lawyers))) would care about

>>713538458
Like a couple of months. A year if you have time constraints .

Udtr is bottom of the barrel

>>713539074
it is just a homage, YIIK didn't deserve the hate it got

>>713539073
Battle Against a True Hero and Save the World are better.

>>713536273
samefagging doesn't help your case

>>713508384 (OP)
>someone qualified
>some guy with a music degree

brainlets just can't help themselves in thinking an undergraduate degree makes them a total expert on a very broad topic. you see it with other degrees all the time, like retards who got a BA in biology but never went to medical school giving medical advice or people who got a BA in poly sci but never went to law school giving legal advice

>>713539186
I agree but everyone defending Toby seems to immediately jump to thinking it's about the lawsuit/courtroom/paying damages type of plagiarism for some (((reason))) when I mostly see people claiming he's just creatively bankrupt and not the genius dev and composer he's cracked up to be

>>713536273
>gets sued
>realizes that this video got shit on because it was wrong

>>713539459
see >>713522372
Gaye's estate didn't have nearly as much of a case as the Toby vid has and still won

>>713539364
my favorite part is that this "knowledgeable, qualified, studious graduate with a degree" had never fucking heard Teddy Bear's Picnic before and tried to use it as a gotcha against Kirkhope.
no one let this kid listen to Chopin and play Catherine or we'll get another essay.
lmao

>>713539074
apparently every other moment in Undertale/Deltarune is a reference to that fag webcomic one of the cumguzzlers in his gooncave made. I wonder if his games would be better or worse if he wasn't such a jew and made his own thing

>>713536273
It's ok if the artist you are plagiarizing doesn't notice or doesn't care.

>>713539629
what

>>713520341
>there is a truly creative minority that inspires everyone
except it's not that cut and dry, even those people you'd call the "creative minority" make things that are derivative if you drill down enough. nothing is truly 100% original. even going back thousands of years to the iliad and odyssey, those stories were made over time by people retelling the same story they heard from someone else and adding their own little details to it

that's not to say all "art" is created equal or that one isn't more original than another that might be a soulless reskin of something existing. but the people acting like a work is plagiarism if you can find any similarities to other work are fucking retarded and have no idea what they're talking about

>>713510047
I feel like music plagiarism is hard to avoid. People say there are infinite combinations in music, but the truth is only some of the sound good. You have like 12 major chords and 12 minor ones that everyone uses. And yes with spacing and combinations that's like a million ways you can lay them out. But you know how many songs have been produced? Also millions. And you don't have to match the songs 1:1, it's plagiarism if it "sounds close enough". It's just like that meme where a lot of popular songs use the same chord progression.

This post has nothing to do with Toby Fox, I didn't watch the vid nor do I care about his career.

>>713538432
>muh news
Tumblrtale was absolutely everywhere, it just didn't scare fragile faggots into making a global rule about it.

>>713539553
Nigger, it's one reply up. Learn to fucking read.

>>713539024
His games are garbage doe, rather be notch than a Jew

>>713539923
it's something of a philosophical conundrum: if you took a person from birth and placed them in a completely uniform and sterile environment, and gave them no creative stimulation, with just enough of a basic education such that they're not brain dead retarded, what sort of "art" would they create? could they even be capable of creating something? this is relevant to the entire discussion surrounding AI art as well.

Kill all ai niggers.

>>713539162
>the first chapter relied solely on Undertakes success to gain any traction.
>no one would have given a shit without the prior connection, and definitely no one would have given a shit with how long the game's development is taking
These are just arguments for DR's success/popularity. The first chapter alone would still be wildly better than Undertale even if no one gave a shit about it.

>>713539280
I mean that's my point, they're both obviously homages but only the unpopular guy got raked over the coals for it, same happens with Koji Kondo or Toby Fox getting away with everything vs Kenji Yamamoto getting fired and blacklisted, simply due to social factors

>>713540428
Undertale is definitely better than just the first chapter of deltarune. Which isn't really saying anything. One is a complete game, the other is 1/7 of a game.

>>713521031
It's similar but most music is derivative on some level t. musician

>>713540735
If I took By God Forsaken and slightly altered the notes, time signatures etc and put it in a retro game soundfont, would I also be hailed a vidya music genius?

>>713540147
So true that's why you are here falling back to made up demons instead of talking about Minecraft

>>713538820
>except in the example you provide we can see the similarities in perspective, subject, placement and composition.
But those are the things you SEE, on paper they're nothing alike, similarly the list of tracks Toby cribbed from sound almost identical to the originals and are used in almost identical contexts, so just because they don't line up 1:1 on paper doesn't mean Toby didn't crib from them

>>713540725
I agree it is a bit hyperbolic to compare it against a whole game so let me rephrase it as
>Deltarunes first chapter is better than any individual portion of Undertale
Or at the very least
>Deltarunes first chapter is vastly better than Undertale's Demo

>>713540873
>if I made a completely different piece of music would I be as a vidya music genius
Considering how retarded you are, no. You'd probably make something like >>713516281

I like how this just gets more schizo and more nonsensical with every thread. I hope you keep getting worse Anon, because I know someone this obsessed can't possibly be doing well in real life either.

>>713539438
>I agree plagarism is a non issue
>but also I'm going to make 300 posts in the thread complaining about plagarism
which is it

>>713541092
So if Toby does it then he's a musical genius but if I did it then I'm not, I wonder why

>>713541051
Well in that case, yeah I'd agree.

>>713541154
I already told you, anon. It's because you're retarded. Loads of people have been able to become successful musicians with their own original works. But you certainly never will.

>>713541137
I agree plagiarism is not a crime but I also think some of the brought up tracks sound suspiciously similar to the point of lowering my opinion of Toby's compositional skills, it doesn't mean I think he should pay damages or go to jail, just that he doesn't deserve the credit that he's getting

It's happened before when I realized some of the tracks in Chrono Trigger are likely ripped off from previously existing popular music, I didn't think CT was a bad game for it or that Mitsuda should go to jail for it, I just redirected my admiration for the compositions from him to the original composers

>>713541454
you're right bro rick astley is the true genius of our time

>>713538267
You're fucking delusional if you think Deltarune is better than Undertale. Undertale was a complete package with a compelling story and was an actual meta commentary. Deltarune just wears Undertale around like a skin suit and its message (if it can even be called one) is significantly worse than Undertale's. You either have to be the biggest dick rider or Toby Fox himself to think Deltarune will ever live up to Undertale. Undertale also didn't take two decades to make either

>>713541454
zoomers are weird man, they see everything in white and black extremes
if you say toby may be a hack, they think you want toby to go to prison and get raped by 20 niggas

>>713539970
not only that, but not all of them sound good together. you're actually fairly limited on what you can do and not have it sound like a discordant wreck.

and it's not just chord's and notes. you're limited on SOUND, period. the range of human hearing only goes so low and so high, and that is the space you have to work with.

>>713508384 (OP)
>game has been out 10 years
>people just now claiming plagiarism

There needs to be a time limit on shit like this. if you didn't make the accusation with in the first year or so your time is up. it's BS that someone can say you did something 5,10,15,20 years ago and you still get screwed over for it.

>>713541025
>my own example of blatant copying is not an example of blatant copying! they're nothing alike on paper!!!
first off, lmao.
second, yes, they are. I literally named the ways in which they are.

meanwhile, the musical equivalents don't add up with Toby's examples at all. you're acting like my argument is they're not a 1:1 match. my argument is they're not even a 52:123 match. they. are. not. similar.

>>713541658
Deltarune has
>better art/sprites (admittedly a low bar since UT's graphics are atrocious)
>more engaging gameplay mechanics + better mob fights
>team party lends itself to better character interactions (both comedic and dramatic)
>story is compelling despite you stating otherwise
The only thing UT has over Deltarune is that it is complete and it's meta-commentary is better/more novel (though I'd argue its normal plotline isn't nearly as engaging)

This is Toby's world... we just live in it...

>>713542274
>my argument is they're not even a 52:123 match. they. are. not. similar.
Same with >>713538065, they don't match up in anything on paper, but if you have healthy eyes you can see how the right is still obviously a copy, just like how you can hear the similarities in the Toby examples

Given this level of derangement this has to be the alex guy himself.

Is this the thread?

What's interesting is that every artist in the world has had ten years to create a case against his plagiarism, but they haven't even put forth a claim in all that time. Maybe music companies are just lazy and not very sue happy.

>>713542867
Friendship had 40 years to go after Koji Kondo for ripping off Let's Not Talk About It in Super Mario Bros, a game far more popular than UT and something they could've not missed even if they actively tried, but since they didn't I guess Underground isn't a complete obvious ripoff of Let's Not Talk About It then

>>713542867
toby fox is one person, there's no much to gain from suing him even if the plagiarism was unquestionably blatant

if a big corpo had done it then it would be a different story

>>713542725
It's the thread until Janny stops melting down.

>>713542867
Speaking of earthbound
Faggots ITT would genuinely label this as "plagiarism"
https://youtu.be/D8aRgYyITao

Toby Fox plagarized the Earthbound OST behind the back of an Arby's in 1997

>>713520341
>>713539923
>>713540289
Art is iterative, it's completely valid to be derived-from-thing. There's a difference between lazy/fannish mimicry and a conscious working with prior forms, though.
A derivative work that acknowledges its sources, builds on them, challenges them, maybe mourns or even mocks them, that's alive in a way "TRVE originality" rarely can be, because it's having a living conversation with the rules it's breaking.

Toby’s work more reads like someone joyfully stitching together the highlights reel of the media that raised him: Nintendo RPGs, Homestuck, Touhou, etc.

The "pacifist" message many praise him for, well, he’s not actually bravely calling out some tradition of bloodlust. He's codifying the existing pacifism that was already implied in the games he loved.
Earthbound, for instance, enemies are "tamed" and your party's defeats the bigbad through prayer. Paper Mario is portrayed as goofy stage play. None of Bowser's underlings die, they just get theatrically trounced and reappear in a big firework parade afterward. Even danmaku in Gensokyo exists specifically to ritualize pageantry and prevent real harm.

That's why it smacks when people taut Undertale as 2015's long awaited refutation of VIOLENT VIDYA GAMES. He's not a rebel, he's a fanboy. Maybe if he was (even more) vocal about his inspirations?

>>713543112
>Nintendo plagiarised one of the more iconic tunes from a song called "Let's Not Talk About It"
This shit writes itself.

>>713541051
>Deltarunes first chapter is vastly better than Undertale's Demo
not even close.
again, if DR had dropped first, discussion of it would have stopped after a month.
what draws does it even have without knowing who most of the characters are?>>713542384
>they don't match up in anything on paper,
yes. they. do. they match in perspective, subject and composition, just like I already told you.

>>713510047
https://youtu.be/tntXbmhmgVc?si=FwiQ_yVyyT966lYc
Alex's "original" composition at 19:42

>>713543440
>yes. they. do. they match in perspective, subject and composition, just like I already told you.
Those are the things you see, not the things on paper, except subject where they're obviously not the same things

>>713543209
Sampling is a completely different topic.
Those Earthbound songs don't sound anything like the original songs they are sampling.
Also, don't quote me on this, but I bet the reason the Earthbound re release on Wii U was more expensive than other SNES games was because Nintendo had to clear the rights for all the sampled music used.

On the other hand, Toby Fox didn't sample the music he took inspiration from, but they do sound very similar.

>>713510047
holy shit alex yard is such a psychotic schizo

>>713542867
https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/128036-Powerman-5000-Accuses-XIV-Composer-Masayoshi-Soken-of-Plagiarism-for-the-Sephirot-theme

This thread and its other iterations always just ends up being more and more contrived ways to try to label one person as a plagiarist which then infinitely widens what would fall under plagiarism to the point no art can be made.

This is why people keep saying the accusers are all some sort of failed artist or someone who does not do anything creative.

>Every Hammer of Justice "remix" is awful, full of drums, or completely misses the point
Save me, /v/-chan! You're my only hope for finding one that isn't garbage!

>>713543518
sounds like a track from a free licensed kids game packed in with a box of cereal lol

he says this is supposed to be for a swamp level. what the fuck about any of it gives off "swamp" vibes?
this guy is an autistic clown in everything he does

>>713543742
If it doesn't go all in on the banjos, I don't want to fucking hear it.

>>713543682
All art is theft, successful artists are the ones that hide their inspirations well, Toby clearly failed

>>713533214
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H89ZT0jjiO8

>>713543682
alex yard actually is one of them who spams his garbage here

>>713543112
https://youtu.be/Jz2ACkBf_qU
Ah yes exactly how i remember it sounding on the NES

>>713543682
Alex Yard has literally had a manic break and everyone around him has been begging him to get help and leave Toby alone for years now.

>>713543771
>Banjo is replaced with electric guitar
>Every time

>>713543179
THOUSAND YEARS OF DEATH

>>713543582
>On the other hand, Toby Fox didn't sample the music he took inspiration from, but they do sound very similar.
Bruh they fucking dont.

This seems like a good place to ask, does anyone have good resources for getting into music as a complete beginner? Maybe something from online-courses, I'm looking to make game-like music but I'd like to understand the theory behind it as well

>>713542725
>>713543179
Challenge: press CTRL+SHIFT+ESC and try not to bust

>>713543682
no one takes issue with inspiration and even straight up homages. the problem is that this is all that toby fox can do

>>713543909
They do >>713519537

>>713543626
I dont think that ever went anywhere since that song was left in the game.

>>713543440
>again, if DR had dropped first, discussion of it would have stopped after a month.
>what draws does it even have without knowing who most of the characters are
It's quirky earthbound-rpg tone coupled with bullet hell-lite gameplay is still interesting enough on its own in a vaccumn. And the main characters of Kris and Sussie are both interesting without any prior knowledge of UT (ehich includes the cliffhanger scene where Kris rips his own hesrt out. You don't need any prior knowledge to understand the context and gravity of the situation). Ralsei himself would be just as popular even without knowing about Asriel (acting as a Toriel stand in terms of popularity if UT never came out)

>>713543682
>This is why people keep saying the accusers are all some sort of failed artist or someone who does not do anything creative.
That, and the dumb nigger proved it with his own trash "music".

>>713541051
>>713543440
I'd say it's a toss up between the two actually. The ruins section of undertale was pretty bad in places. Toby hadn't even figured out not to have random battle encounters during puzzles yet and some of the puzzles were pretty shit.

But it did have the genocide route in it. Which definitely made you interested to see what happens with the rest of the game.

Chapter 1 Deltarune did have Jevil though, definitely something to be said for how longer and polished chapter 1 was than undertale's demo.

>>713544014
I don't even have a problem with that, what I do mind is better vidya composers getting looked over for his collaging leitmotif abusing ass

>>713543547
>nooo this purely visual example can't be explained or related to in visual elements depicted on paper which is exactly the medium that holds it!!!
lmfao
you're too terminally autistic to reply to anymore. enjoy the last word.

>>713519537
>first example is literally just walking down a blues scale
jesus man this is pathetic

>>713543872
https://youtu.be/UG8m08s6p7U
Car Banjo >>>> cat turd > every cover so far

>>713533214
Toby just schizofies everyone who engages with his work for some reason. There are people at this very moment who believe The Knight in Deltarune has control over the SOUL in some way because its final attack teleports the SOUL to a safe space where it can't get hit after the attack is over.

Actual fans will find lore where a gameplay convenience would suffice.
Actual haters will find plagiarism where coincidence would suffice.

>>713544250
>first example is something Toby openly admitted to using as a basis for the track
Yeah you're pretty pathetic

>>713543968
ERROR: Tasque failed successfully.

>>713544309
actually he openly said he didn't take inspiration from anything, he had never even heard music before

>>713544231
They don't actually line up anywhere on paper, you would have to fudge and shift and adjust them to actually create a match on paper, which brings up to the issue in >>713522253 where things don't match up 1:1 which means they're not the same

>>713521553
>that's too many coincidences in a row
NTA
It's not.

PROOF POSITIVE THAT TOBY ""HACK""IATION" FOX IS A PLAGARIST

https://litter.catbox.moe/ax3ff5qw3h34bsbt.ogg

https://litter.catbox.moe/3vfl40axu82uu180.ogg

https://litter.catbox.moe/lk8bd2uqmi529kzf.ogg

>>713544387
>"also, the last boss music was a little inspired by brandish 2's, see if you can catch the similarities" - Toby Fox on the making of Radiation's Halloween Hack.
Enjoy schizophrenia I hear it's lovely this time of year

>>713510047
Spam this a few more times anon. I'm sure next time's the charm.

>>713544468
i can't believe toby fox would steal from fwugradiation like that...

>>713544228
This, there are so many better vidya OST composers out there who don't have to re-use old leitmotifs and "references" as a crutch; yet receive nowhere near the sheer cult-like obsession as this guy

Which Deltarune characters would you want to see in Smash Bros. as an assist trophy?

>>713543827
Really?

>>713544029
Some of these examples are HEAVY reaches and the others are things Toby himself talked about or were actual in-game references like Mettaton singing was LITERALLY an FF6 reference.
You'd call direct references plagiarism because of an obvious vendetta

>>713543795
You know damn well they wouldve done a Jazz remix of Underground by now if they know it wouldnt be even more obvious

>>713519537
how did this even gain traction, and why do you keep spamming this trash

>>713543967
paul davids on youtube has a really good intro to music theory series. it's for guitarists ostensibly, but does a good job explaining notes, intervals, chords.

>>713542725
>Toby bait thread
No.

alright this thread sucks
where's the REAL thread

>>713544729
>>713543827

>>713544630
https://nitter.net/AlexYardZone

Where's the deltarune discussion?

>>713544014
>>713544228
>>713544606
Isnt that more a problem you have with normies than a problem with Toby Fox himself? Its not his fault everyone praises him. The fact that this praise extends from America and Japan is just something that happened. His undertale concerts sold BIGLY especially in Japan.

>>713544452
So if I made a song that matches up to Spear of Justice and By God Forsaken in the same ways, Toby fans WOULDN'T claim it sounds too similar to Spear of Justice?

Retarded autistic plagerism thread? Allowed

Actual game discussion?! BANNED

>>713544880
I mean that's why I'm talking about it on /v/ where people are buying into the overhype instead of sending Toby bull feces over email

>The fact that this praise extends from America and Japan is just something that happened. His undertale concerts sold BIGLY especially in Japan.
You're acting as if Japan was ever a market with good taste, they unironically enjoy gacha games that doesn't make them good

>>713544817
>going after grant kirkhope of all people
also the shit he's pointed out was already discussed YEARS ago when he went on game grumps and nobody gave a shit

>>713545065
Le this is le Redditchan /vee/ - Le Everything Except Le Video Games.

>>713544468
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUcThHVbrXY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhv55ss0B4A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMfro9XfU1w

Is Alex Yard the next Chris Chan?

>>713544920
nobody really cares about plagarism

>>713545268
Has he fucked his mom yet?

>>713545268
no, he's just not funny enough and he's malicious
it makes reading or interacting with this situation annoying and boring, the guy is just tearing himself down to the detriment of everyone around him
mental health is fucking scary, man

>>713545268
How does sonic do this to people?

>>713545079
The plagiarism claims 100% of the times come from extreme autists that genuinely suffer from Toby derangement syndrome.
I have not seen ONE thread where people were talking about plagiarism that I didnt think "this fucking retard has no idea what the fuck he's talking about"

I've been following Toby Fox since his days working on homestuck on the MSPA forums and he loves to remix,do leifmotifs, and reference/call back to old games that he likes but calling it plagiarism is actually fucking retarded and nobody should buy into that bullshit.

>>713544413
dang, anon, got me to reply anyway. Ok, I'll try one more time.

Your example has multiple aspects that can be directly compared and do line up perfectly. The example Alex gives has none. The core things that make up the image (perspective, subject matter) are the same . The core things that make up the songs are not the same. Your image is an obvious copy. The songs are not.

>>713544920
Nobody would care.

The people accusing Toby Fox of plagiarism aren’t making any serious point. They’re not interested in actual analysis. They’re just bitter nobodies reacting to someone who made something they couldn’t. He put out a weird little game full of sincerity and strangeness, and instead of ignoring it like normal people, they obsess over it and try to drag it down.

This is classic slave morality, the kind Nietzsche spelled out clearly. They don’t create anything of value themselves. They don’t have the strength to act or affirm, so they moralize and condemn. Instead of aspiring, they spite. Toby succeeds, and their only move is to call him a fraud or a thief, hoping it’ll even the playing field.

They can’t outdo him creatively (obviously), so they retreat into resentment. They reframe his success as some kind of wrongdoing. The same way the weak, in Nietzsche’s terms, called the strong “evil” just to feel righteous in their weakness. That’s the whole game here, reaction disguised as principle.

Toby didn’t steal. He synthesized. He referenced, built, mutated. That’s what actual art looks like. The people crying “plagiarism” wouldn’t recognize originality if it slapped them in the face, because they’ve never touched it themselves. They’re scavengers playing moral police because that’s the only power they know.

>>713510879
>Tee Lopes
I need more of him, Mania and SOR4 were cum inducing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-ifukvnICY&t=20s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3ABB-xymBc&t=17s

>>713545609
>copefagniggerkikes sucking off the tiny brown cock of Jewby Cocks after being called out
he will never acknowledge or love you you dumb fucking swine

>>713510047
has another musician made a direct reply dissecting this video point by point?
this alex guy sounds like a massive, insufferable faggot, but it seems to me that undertale fans always attack him as a person instead of the arguments he presents

>>713546062
No. Nobody has a counter argument, they can only hide behind their insufferable zoomerisms because they're afraid of being educated on the truth. Actual musicians don't care to watch it because they're smart enough to know that Toby is a fraud already and see the video as educational for the musiclets that fail to understand it.

>>713546062
he's a genuine schizo who lashes out against random people due to mental illness, other musicians have responded to other videos he's done on them. scroll through his twitter and it's just one big schizo meltdown
https://x.com/AlexYardZone

>>713546195
This. Every Toby fanboy gets on the defensive as soon as this video is brought up.

Oh its a BG3 schizo thread, nvm

>>713546246
>twitter banner is schizoposting about teddy bear's picnic
jesus christ

>>713546195
Can confirm as a musician of 13 years, Toby is uncreative and steals everything.

>>713546062
>another musician
Alex isn't a musician. The myriad comments pointing out why he's wrong are made by people with the same level of expertise or possibly more and more than suffice.

>>713545961
lmao uh oh melty

>>713545609
AI post, but that aside - the guy made a few cool RPGmaker games. He's a better composer than he is a game designer. Calm the fuck down. The guy didn't invent algebra.

>>713545961
I never asked to be acknowledged. That idea came from you. You tossed it in like a stray thought, but it says more about your own hangups than anything I wrote. It tells me you’re wired to see everything as some pathetic bid for recognition, probably because that’s how you operate.

But not everyone’s out here begging for approval. Some of us just say things because they’re true. That’s it. No applause needed, no fucking spotlight. If that confuses you, maybe sit with it instead of hurling slurs like a toddler with a stroke.

>>713546195
>zoomerisms
the future is now old man go home lmao
maybe get some bitches of smth

>>713546431
You can't even speak right, you expect to know music? Retard.

>>713545961
I will acknowledge him

>>713545609
Keep up the good work

>>713546423
>pic

Should be Kris so it can be called the Krizzler.

>>713546408
Is his art not worthy of celebration? These dickheads are claiming he’s a fraud but he’s both a great game designer and composer which is miles ahead of the bitter losers trying to bring a real nigga down

>>713511451
Sorry to hear you were kneeled by chauvin, George.

>>713546195
>thread full of counterarguments
>"no, there are no counterarguments, i said so"
Ok retard. Here's a pity reply.

>>713546597
Yeah, but sometimes you people take it a bit too far. You act like he's a renaissance master. To be entirely honest I played Undertale back in 2015 and thought it was great, but the modern discussion around Toby treats him like some maestro of videogames. It is a bit exhausting.

Alex, this isn't going to fix your life or make you happy or bring you success.

>>713546597
>Is his art not worthy of celebration?
No

>>713546741
He is a maestro of videogames, and I think all the praise he gets is well deserved. Besides, why do you care if people are “overpraising” him or not?

>>713510047
Did he release this video as an attempt to discredit toby before Deltarunes release?

>>713546780
>or bring you success
In his defense, nothing is going to do that.

>>713511443
>YOU COPIED MY SONG
>the music is entirely different
>THE TENSION IS THE SAME!
We got retards whining about "emotional plagarism" now?

>>713546597
"It seems a bit much", I guess

>>713546741
nobody here is doing that
the guy isn't infallible, chapter 3 was pretty tepid for a lot of it and toby himself as a person isn't interesting to me i just like deltarune and undertale was fine
pro-toby discourse isn't a reason to side with alex fucking yard of all people

>>713546402
>>713546423
>copes even more
cry all you want retards, toby lost and your faggot larping >>713546524 won't stop the fact toby lost. your own counter argument is "I like it haha lol shut the fuck up I'm smarter and better than you" like a smug dumb little niggerfuck thinking he knows what music is when you fucking DON'T
get a fucking education and come back to me then. get off your e-celeb high horse and start making something of yourself if you care so much about Nietzsche's teachings. Maybe after you do that i'll have some respect for you, but you "don't want that" because you'd rather get the approval of some scrungly jewish brownoid cunt than contribute to society.

>>713546943
Nah

>>713546998
Lost what?

The guy should've used a studio/house name instead of his real on, would make it seem more anonymous and humble

>>713547071
The story

>>713546998
Lost fucking what, he's made bank and the lawsuits only exist in your head

>>713547071
don't fucking play dumb

>>713511106
It reminds me of this little number.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2cRCu1ofJDE

>>713546998
Perfect specimen of a man with slave morality.

>>713547136
You "toby lost". What the fuck does that mean? What did he lose?

>>713547091
I agree, especially by marketing the game as "Undertale created by Toby Fox" when he had multiple people working on the game

>>713547071
The Game

>>713546996
woah woah buddy, i'm not siding with anyone. i'm just reading through this thread as a neutral observer and i'm struck suddenly by how... i don't know... excessive it is to compare a dude's cool rpgmaker games to nietzche. it's like somebody making a video essay on how playing Doki Doki literature club is marxist praxis

>>713546998
anon this is literally what a melty looks like, like i don't care about any of that shit, but at least i'm not here on an image board having an embarrassing tantrum

>>713508384 (OP)
>Complaining one composer is copying another composer

Shit like that happens all the fucking time.
It's like getting mad at Pewdiepie for making bank when you can barely get a dozen regulars streaming.

>>713547130
>>713547130
>>713547183
everyone knows toby is a plagiarist, it's only you hyper obsessed fanboys who keep insisting he's a successful multi-biollaire. oh no what will I do??? he has enough money to go on vacation to a foreign country! he must be swimming in success!!! fucking retard.
You're in maximum denial and even when it's in your face screaming at you, you fail to see it.

>>713547290
Ok but what did toby lose?

>>713547235
oh sure, yeah bringing that up out of nowhere feels like schizobaiting because it's just so extra

>>713547235
>I'm not siding with anyone I'm just repeating what some schizo has been saying the entire thread

>>713546943
>He is a maestro of videogames

Only a maestro of forced soul

>>713546981
It reminds me of that lawsuit of some tiktok influencer trying to sue another one for "stealing her vibe"

>>713547290
Why would you steal this line from toby? You worded it differently and you're saying it under a completely different context, but you're basically saying the same thing, so why would you steal it?

>>713547441
>"I bet those grapes taste sour anyways..."

>>713543518
>at 19:42
Isn't that just melee menu theme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHHQt3J0HEw

why does mr. radiation attract schizos?
first poopy joe now this

Yeah the schizo is definitely Alex, he writes in the same way

>>713547441
The SOUL is based, though?

>>713547346
>>713547420
It is extra. This is my last reply because I'm not going to shit up this thread any more, but yes, you can like the guy and also have perspective. He made good music and some pretty good games. He's not an all-time artist. Please restrain your autism and be a little bit more realistic.

>>713546062
A lot of his points have been debunked in this very thread. And some of his points are entirely off the fucking wall.
>What if I shift all the notes of Star Wars up a few intervals???
>What if I play this progression in the rhythm of Gerudo Valley????
Uh, ok? What fucking rebuttal does that even need? It backs up none of his points and is out of left field.
The song he puts up as example shares nothing in common with the song he's claiming as the ripoff, and then he spends 40 minutes talking about bullshit like the greentext above and that somehow is supposed to prove something.

I think it bears repeating: this "educated, degree holding graduate", whom some of these anons are trusting for qualified analysis, had never fucking heard Teddy Bear's Picnic before and thought Kirkhope was trying to fool the world.
Then he posts a terrible midi song of his own composition, which is supposed to be for a "swamp" level and sounds like something more at home as the background track for a childrens educational program. Nothing remotely "swamp-like" about it.

The guy has terminal tism. When combined with lack of talent (as heard in his compositions), you get aggressive bitterness (as seen in his video essays).

I love that he makes fun of Spencer Nielsen for having to create an OST in a few months time and then churns out some nursery rhyme shit that sounds like it was done in an hour.

>>713543518
>>713547626
ummm alexbros? our response?

>>713547505
okay retard what does this prove? words can't be plagiarised you stupid fuck, people say them all the fucking time. music is an art form that you CAN plagiarise because you CAN steal ideas. you really thought you has a "gotcha" here didn't you? are you proud of yourself? Is baby happy that he filled his fucking diaper? come back with real evidence next time retard, none of this whataboutism bullshit. go fucking kill yourself, I fucking hate toby fox fans so fucking much.

>>713547290
can you explain how toby "stole" the "tension" from your songs again?

>>713545520
They don't actually line up anywhere and the objects are completely different, from different eras even and are extremely common subject matter for paintings, and there's only a limited amount of perspectives you can draw in, no one sane would say a work is plagiarized simply for having the same perspective as another otherwise we'd only have ~360 paintings total

>>713547815
>"words can't be plagiarised"

Toby Snake is the antichrist

>>713547505
>>713547815

Holy shit they actually bought it.

>>713547770
You don't even understand the theory enough to be able to deboonk it, imagine not being able to grasp something even Alex Yard can grasp

>>713547815
Stop stealing the tension from tumblr posts, you unoriginal scum!

I can't believe such shameless plagiarism like this is allowed s m h t b h

>>713547815
>words can't be plagiarised
haha what

alternative reply:
>tell me you've never been to college without telling me you've never been to college
youve def never had to write a thesis.
you've also def never heard of all the times authors were sued for plagiarism. novelists, scriptwriters, all facets.

>>713548017
not to take that cunt's side since he's wrong about everything, but this applies specifically to trademark
words can be copyrighted, you can't copy the text of a work in whole or part which is what got hellen keller of all people in trouble
she published a story called "the frost king" which was a copy of margaret canby's "frost fairies" then there's all the jonah lehrer shit or jacob epstein stealing from martin amis

>>713548195
HE CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw0F7Py6gTQ

>>713548209
>you've never been to college
neither have YOU you underaged neanderthal, you don't know the first thing about anyt of this and it fuckign shows. why not go back to your discord group and roleplay there if you're so well versed in writing huh? That's what I thought. Fucking retard.

>>713548306
>words can be copyrighted
glad you agree.
on a serious note though, GW made it clear that the word "Warhammer" can be "soft-copyrighted"

>>713548209
Plagiarism is taught at least in high school, if not middle school. That nigger is just retarded.

>>713547986
youve absolutely 100% convinced me you are Alex Yard.
>There's only so many perspectives!
you mean just like how there are only so many notes in 12TET and only so many ways they can fit together without unreasonable discord?
the only way this could be more perfect is if you're also that same anon from before who was saying
>All of these things together can't be coincidence!!!
and here you are trying to argue that all the shared core aspects of these paintings are just coincidence
lmao

>>713548480
just saying copyright is different from trademark
by highlighting trademark you seemed to think you can trademark say blocks of text but you can't
something like "sanford and son's" can be a trademark, but the script is copyrighted

>>713548076
is that you, maestro? back to hop on my throbbing pole again, are we? ;)

imagine thinking Alex Yard is an expect at anything except being an unhinged, obsessed autistic
lol

>>713548606
>youve absolutely 100% convinced me you are Alex Yard
Because he's educated, and makes valid remarks? I'll take that as a compliment thank you.

>>713548678
>ignoring my point and my concession
I had such modest hopes

>>713544303
Thanks, man! That was pretty schway.

Toby Fox once plagiarized a song from Eddie Morton made in 1909 for Homestuck, how dare he.

>>713548606
You just agreed with that guy, you accepted that plagiarism can be obvious even in a system with a limited amount of options if enough other things line up

>>713548736
emotions being copyright isn't valid or something an educated person would say though, alex.

>>713548736
if only you had taken the right lessons from ulillillia

Toby needs to step up his plagiarizing game cause chapter 3+4 music is a serious letdown compared to everything he's done before.

Since we're already in autosage, I'll ask for the dude or dudette that said the areola were too light last thread.
This dark enough? Too much?
It really shouldn't have bugged me as much as it did, but I ending up fiddling with those things for far too long.

>>713547290
He's been living there for the last five years, alex

>>713548878
>From Now On
>Hammer of Justice
>Second Sanctuary
>Third Sanctuary
>Black Knife
>Paradise, Paradise
No, I'd say he still has it.

>>713548825
correct. what you're missing is the part where it's obvious all the other parts of Alex's example song don't line up. which can be proven simply by looking at the fucking score he himself puts in the video.

>>713548987
>Hammer of Justice

Guys even stealing from Undertale by switching up Spear of Justice, fucking criminal.

>>713547649
>poopy joe
Qrd?

>>713549040
Well, he made it better, so I won't complain.

>>713548987
>>713549040
Hammer of Justice is criminally bad compared to Spear of Justice, how people can eat up those shitty soundfonts and that generic ass arrangement beats me. Sounds like default RPG maker music.

>>713549065
brazilian who really didn't like undertale so he commissioned thousands of dollars worth of scat porn to spam in undertale threads

>>713510047
I was expecting something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZaSgnYLceQ but it's just schizo nonsense.

>>713548998
They line up in how extremely similar they sound, the same way the paintings line up in how extremely similar they look, even though neither is 1:1

>>713549148
Spear of Justice sounds so similar to By God Forsaken that Skyfire said they like the fact they probably inspired Toby's music

It's gonna be really funny when this schizo murders Toby Fox so Deltarune is never finished.

>>713549145
>he commissioned thousands of dollars worth of scat porn to spam in undertale threads
holy based

>>713549145
Literally any other use of that money would have been more productive.
>>713549396
Faggot

>>713549451
people who stand up for what they believe in will always be based no matter what they believe in

There is nothing wrong with taking inspiration or straight up using someone's art.
The problem is how Toby made a pretentious character of himself. The way he represents himself, the way he speaks publicly in front of his audience, the way he tries so hard to be a Japanese Dev.
Toby knows most of his music and ideas are derived or straight up stolen from others. And instead of actually crediting them or even linking a few song he has used, he wanted to be known as a indie dev messiah. Undertale was a hit on the Internet when it released and every single person you knew though Toby Fox was an absolute genius and his OST was a genuine masterpiece in every sense.
Anyone that doesn't use 4chan in the fandom has a completely different and ambitious idea of how truly Toby Fox is. And he decided to embrace every single exaggerated compliment at him.
What's even worse. Toby had the balls to call out Matpat for linking undertale to a completely different game for views, publicly humiliating him and damaging his image in social media.
He told him that "creators need all help they can get" and that he should link EVERY game he plays.
Which is ironic, because if we talk about composing music, suddenly "You don't have to link every song you took inspiration from", as he never did and decided to embrace the fame. Toby is both a hypocritical and an asshole.
He even tries to appear as an "ally" to the LGBT and plebbit audience by staying "neutral", when their views are completely different. We are talking about the same dude who made the Halloween hack, said faggot multiple times and made racist jokes. This is like saying some dude who visits /pol/ redeemed himself. Bullshit.
He never tried to acknowledge topics as transexual, gender identity or nonbinary whatever the fuck is on his games in an attempt to appeal to them, but also staying "neutral". His true self will always be someone who lurks around here. He even referred to Frisk as a boy a couple of times.

>>713549451
it's not about the money
it's about sending a message

>>713549542
>BTFO MatPat
as far as I'm concerned he can do no wrong