Does /v/ support Stop Killing Games?

Yeah

>>713816740 (OP)
I don't support forcing developers to work for free

>>713816740 (OP)
I’m in USA there’s nothing I can do but watch, it’s like that trolly meme

>>713816740 (OP)
I don't care.

>>713816740 (OP)
is that your tweet?

>>713816740 (OP)
No, I fucking hate PC gamers and the echochamber crybaby festival of /r/GCJ and /v era/ posting their PC fanboy platform isn't doing well. Get therapy.

Stop spamming threads.

>>713816814
They shouldn't have designed their product poorly in the first place then. They created that extra work for themselves.

>>713816990
Stop killing games.

>>713816814
So you agree with stop killing games.

>>713816814
what does that have to do with games becoming unavailable after online services go down or are forcefully shutdown?

>>713816990
threads will stop when games are saved

>>713816740 (OP)
I don't support wokeshit

>>713816814
good thing that's not what stop killing games is about.

>>713817031
No, I don't think I will.
I will keep killing gacha shit by not playing it.
I'm based that way.

>>713816740 (OP)
>Stop Killing Games will make lawbringers playable again
Hbomberguy is such a retarded faggot

>>713816814
They aren't working for free. The consumer bought the product.

>>713816814
>get paid to do work
>WHAT THE FUCK I'M EXPECTED TO WORK FOR FREE??? *counts money*

>>713816740 (OP)
if we didn't there wouldn't be 5 different threads a day talking about it, including this one

>>713816740 (OP)
>buyered tf2 in 2007
>no servers? make your own
>no players? just play against bots
>tf2 still to this day make a fuck ton of money even with plugins to give free stuff on custom servers
what black magic trick did valve pull to make even their online games work forever that other devs just can't figure out?

>>713817075
SKG compels them to make an end of life plan

>>713817520
SKG is woke

>>713817387
if SKG has the government paying devs for the end of life plan, I support it.

Corpos should support it, just think about it
>corp sells a game
>runs the servers for a couple years
>doesn't earn enough to justify keeping the servers up
>release the server tools to the public
>can still sell the game with a disclaimer
it's that simple.

>>713817520
At that point the lifespan of game is expected to happen and devs generally get paid while in the process of developing the game too so how does that exactly matter

>>713816740 (OP)
Lawbreakers was fun actually

>>713816740 (OP)
I support Keep Killing Gamestudios
Lets get another 10k layoffs this year

>>713817654
the keyword is "generally"
time and money is a scarce resource for smaller teams, they shouldn't be concerned with an end of life plan

>>713816814
How about you make a game that you can actually afford to run and support? Don't do some live service shit if you can't afford keeping it running.

>>713817832
>scamming is ok when small indies do it
lol no

>>713817832
>they shouldn't be concerned with an end of life plan
Actually they should, otherwise they are being disingenuous to players of their own games.

>>713817519
>how can a multi-billion dollar company with warehouses full of servers possibly keep their twenty-year-old game that has barely anyone working on it running?
it's a mystery

>>713816990
This is an anti-SKG thread. It's meant to evoke rage by putting forward a figure that polfags hate.

>>713816906
That guy is actually a well known BreadTube glownigger.

>>713816814
all those poor small indie devs making live service games with mtx and a battlepass...

This "Stop Killing Games" shit just sounds like some dumb fucking faggotry made-up by zoomers who never got to experience certain games that we rave about and feel FOMO over it.

You should all kill yourselves.

Lawbreakers looks like it's way more fun than Marathon

>>713816740 (OP)
>

>>713816740 (OP)
So are you guys gonna just keep spamming these threads hoping to drum up more signatures?

>>713817973
you first

>>713818070
SKGbros... we look like THIS?!?!

Thor debunked this.

>>713817832
Smaller games and studios can't afford always online server side interaction anyway, due to upkeep costs. This only impacts stuff that can't be otherwise accessed.

>>713818096
zoom zoom parasite

YOU WILL NEVER EXPERIENCE THE GAMES WE PLAYED, HAHAHAHAHA

Kill Bad Games.

>>713816740 (OP)
Explain to me exactly what this fag and his movement is all about, because from the title alone, it sounds retarded, and I can only hope I'm greatly misunderstanding what he's trying to accomplish.

>>713816740 (OP)
No. /v/ stands with Piratesoftware.
Because it's funny.

>>713818242
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iH7k0IZ5PYE

>>713818027
the actual game was fun

No.
You knew beforehand it wasn't actually ownership.

>>713816814
The law should be that online games become open source as soon as the developer abandons them, and within five years for offline games if not available on online stores.

>>713816740 (OP)
I despise live service games and want people who buy them to get fucked so no.
Declaring your love to slop and begging devs and publishers to never kill them is embarrassing.

They should not only force devs to make community hosted servers possible as part of their end of life plan but also make the full version history available so you can play the version of those games that were actually worthwhile and not the version it died on
I don't want to go back to Overwatch 1 immediately prior to the OW2 release but I would totally go back play an early 2017 version of OW
Or more relevant to /v/'s tastes I would not be interested in playing Tribes Ascend after the dev's intentionally ruined it to spite their own fans but I would play a late alpha/early beta build all day every day

This is the dumbest shit ever and is really separating the wheat from the chaff, the men from the boys. "Stop Killing Games" is a wild and immature fantasy that could only ever hope to born from the smartest dumbasses this world has to offer.

Just like how I can't force your skinny ass to a cotton field to make me money you can't force a developer, his team, or the studio he works for to just "do it for free. forever".

What lunacy is this? God damn. Holy fuck. Actually a little mad now mulling over it. I'm surrounded by retards!

>>713817519
It's because they care and third party servers are run by the community so costs are minimal.

>>713818325
that didnt explain anything

so if an always online game is shutdown they have to refund everyone?

>>713817519
It was made before 'player' was synonymous with 'cattle'.

>>713818190
take your alzheimer medicine old man

>>713817931
Most of them don't know who Hbombercuck is tho.

>>713818352
That's a lie
I know that now because I've been screwed over before but I used to believe that purchasing a game actually gives you ownership over 1 (one) copy of said game

>>713818556
Yep. Just like Concord

>>713816740 (OP)
>supporting more EU regulation
You're a moron if you think this law wouldn't be written massively in favor of the corporations so that it would either be wholly ineffective or such a bureaucratic nightmare that only the largest game publishers can comply with it

>>713818479
>"do it for free. forever"
They just have to release serverside resources after EoL. That's it. They lose absolutely nothing from doing so either.

>>713818070
How can any woman look at any of these 5(6) men and want to have sex with any of them
Genuinely why would you ever emasculate yourself this way

>>713818556
read the faq

>>713818556
No but that would be funny

>>713818365
Why?

>>713818556
No, they have to provide the means of playing said game offline

>>713817608
>release the server tools to the public
Even though it makes sense to anyone with a brain, nothing strikes fear into the hearts of investors like giving something away for free

>>713816814
I do.
Fuck developers.

>>713816740 (OP)
I guess but I don't buy shitty games in the first place and have no desire to play these service games so it has never been a problem for me
Just stay away from Ubisoft and EA and such and you'll be a much happier gamer

>>713818697
No, they don't. You don't understand what the petition you're supporting is about.

>>713818696
You only get to own code as long as you support and cherish your work. All art and crafts must be widely available as a cultural product and if you don't take care of it then you forfeit the right to own it.

>>713818960
Why?

>>713818242
If a game requires a server to be run, then when the company decides to stop hosting that server, i.e maintaining the game, then they have to give some kind of means to the community to be able to play that game without that server.
A company is free to go about this any way they wish, as long as players can keep the product that they payed money for.

I get it’s a joke, but Ross says it wouldn’t be a retroactive measure.

>>713818740
if anyone understands investments, its investors.
remove the cost from the company while still keeping the revenue flowing is the best investment.

>>713818661
Most of them are either homosexual or pedo groomers.

>>713818426
sounds great, further fragment the tiny playerbase by making it only possible to play with the 4 other people with your specific version installed.

I only care about single player games. People who got obsessed with online games are the reason the industry is so shit now. All the retards buying useless crap like skins and outfits and other stupid shit.

>>713819047
Because fuck you.

>>713819062
Define "able to play the game" in a way that can be used in a one-size-fits-all legal text

>>713819131
The alternative is only being able to play the version that killed your game

>>713819062
>A company is free to go about this any way they wish
Including asking for a subscription fee or selling you server side tools.

>>713818960
>gibs me dat
no

>>713818740
If I invent or create something and I've been invested in it and using it for years but decide one day I'm done with it, I'm not under any obligation to give it away to you either, or support the functionality of said item for the rest of time.

This actually makes no sense at all. You LITERALLY have no right to these sources/codes/whatever. Literally none at all. What in the actual fuck? This is their own creation and they've no obligation moral or legal to just hand it over to the public regardless of its profitability or popularity.

>>713818960
LOL WRONG
You don't even know what art or culture is. You can't even define what a vagina is. Shut the fuck up animetard.

>>713819215
It sounds like you just can't accept that the game you liked is a part of your past, now.

>>713819180
Sounds like something for the bureaucrats in the EU whose job it is to figure that shit out to actually figure out if this gains traction.

>>713816740 (OP)
Games won't die if you keep buying them

>>713819180
No, I'm not a lawyer.
That's actually a potential issue if this gets bumped up in EU courts, but as it stands, it's a petition, which is meant to get the ball rolling. The petition is not meant to define the details, that's up to the suits.

why not just uhhh provide players with the ability to make their own servers after official servers have shut down?

>>713819180
Keep game content accessible. Simple as.

>>713819358
NTA but it sounds like you just can't accept that we're not buying what you're selling.

>>713819358
I can accept it but you know it's possible to bring those games back, in their ideal state even, but devs or publishers decide to not do that and that's a bit frustrating

>>713819365
how do I play lawbreakers?

>>713819180
Definition: Able to Play the Game
>For the purposes of this statute, "able to play the game" shall mean the capability of a purchaser to access and engage with the core gameplay features and content of a digital game, as originally purchased, in a functional manner independent of the company's hosted servers. This may be facilitated through the provision of offline modes, private server software, or other tools or mechanisms provided by the company to ensure the continued usability of the game following the cessation of the company's server hosting or maintenance.

>>713818528
It explained everything. That's how simple it is.

>>713819239
Yes, Chaim.

>>713816814
I do. Anything to make supporting live-service trash more difficult and expensive for them.

>>713819603
>as originally purchased
this line is gonna cause a lot of problems if the game ever had a content patch

>>713819271
Nah, if you pay for something you should be able to keep it.
I don't care about your hard work, nor how long you spent. If I payed $20 for your shitty online-only titty simulator then I deserve to play it until the end of time, regardless if whether or not you want to keep the servers up.

>>713819271
>pilpul

>>713819271
>This actually makes no sense at all. You LITERALLY have no right to these sources/codes/whatever. Literally none at all.
The costumer paid for the product and has a right to keep using it

>>713818528
It's just retards who deserve to be scammed feeling upset that they got rightfully scammed while knowing they were buying into a scam

>>713819460
read the faq

>>713816740 (OP)
>first thing asmon does after getting on stream today is to start glazing and defending piratesoftware some more
you love to see it

>>713818413
The model can be added to any kind of game, retardkun.

>>713816740 (OP)
Yes

>>713816814
Free? Fucking retard, just update the game for offline play

>>713819365
>you vill pay 80 dollars for mario kart and we vill not let you play the way you want

>>713819561
Isn't the whole problem that you already did buy it and now you're bitter you can't play with it forever?

>>713819853
when you buy a product you don't gain ownership over code and assets

>>713819752
Definition: Able to Play the Game
>For the purposes of this statute, "able to play the game" shall mean the capability of a purchaser to access and engage with the core gameplay features and content of a digital game, as provided in its final version at the time of server cessation, in a functional manner independent of the company's hosted servers. This may be facilitated through the provision of offline modes, private server software, or other tools or mechanisms provided by the company to ensure the continued usability of the game following the cessation of the company's server hosting or maintenance.

>>713816814
Good thing it's work that's both minimal and paid?

>>713819978
damn I didn't know Miyamoto was german

>>713819885
Not an answer

>>713819603
And the core gameplay features are what exactly?
Activision could easily argue that the core gameplay of Black Ops 6 is the single player and that the online features are merely an extension of their Call of Duty HQ multiplayer experience that happens to also be included with BO6
Another example is that GTAVI won't include GTA Online 2 at launch, it is instead an added bonus to existing users launched at a later date and would therefore not be covered by this legislation

>>713819931
>just update the game
who's footing the bill for this update?

>>713819460
Because they want to sell you new game, which is harder if you can still play old game.

>>713819768
you can keep it! it's still there, installed on your computer.

>>713820076
>Activision could easily argue that the core gameplay of Black Ops 6 is the single player
Thats very easily disproven since 90% of all CoD player never touch the campaign.

>>713820008
but you should gain entitlement to a functioning product even if the seller doesn't support it anymore

This movement is gay

>>713820008
You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Nobody is asking for owning the code or assets. They want to be able to continue playing the fucking game, the product that they BOUGHT. Spend a weekend or two to strip away the server dependencies, or give some kind of tool so that users can do it themselves.

>P-p-please sign le petition!!!
I bet you think PROTESTING works too, LMFAO.

>>713820010
>as provided in its final version at the time of server cessation
Completely coincidentally btw we removed every single map and all online features and made the entire game only have bot matches in the final patch. Enjoy!

>>713819897
>this petition that only affects online only shit, multiplayer garbage and live service slop can be applied to other things
I see.

>>713820180
I remember that twitter name and thinking he's gay but I don't recall the context

>Jannies stop deleting these threads
>now we have 4 threads being bumped by discord shills to page 1 at all times

>>713820126
saar... if Google Sir breaks down, then what do you do with all your cards??? cannot redeem even if you bought, because Google Sir servers are down!!!

>>713820153
>buy water heater
>it breaks after 5 years
>company won't install a new one for free
wtf im entitled to a functioning water heater, i bought one

>>713820008
you can make a game playable without open sourcing the code. back in the day it was a matter of course for online games to ship with a private server executable

>>713819978
>just update the game for offline play
I don't know why they can't do that? Like is it really hard to make a offline play mode? Or are they that money hungry that when there done with there online always game shut it down and move to the next game and expect you to buy that too.

Movie be damned,
I HAVE TO SAVE GAMING.

>>713820142
So core gameplay is just what happens to be popular? Good fucking luck arguing in court what that might be then.

How do we kick PC gamers off /v/ back to /g/ and create /v PC fanboy/ instead

>>713820281
He likes women

>>713820312
never heard of a lifetime warranty?

>>713816814
>Hey this game you sold me doesn't work
>YOU EXPECT ME TO WORK FOR FREE!?!!

>>713820008
>when you buy a book, you don't own the words within it
Oh nO! That means... nothing at all!

>>713816740 (OP)
No, if you buy a shitty multiplayer game then you deserve to be made fun of
YOU are the one killing video games by supporting multiplayer crap in the first place

>>713820063
why would i explain what the initiative is when it has been explained, in written and video forms, thousands of times by now?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sEVBiN5SKuA

https://www.stopkillinggames.com/faq

i mean, i'm not the one that needs convincing. i signed it 11 months ago.
if people refuse to READ NIGGA, READ, then there is nothing i can do about it

>>713820312
If the company stops making that model of water heater, then they should provide you with the manual on how to maintain it.

>>713816814
they get paid for their game so they don't work for free you nigger

>>713820076
Yeah, the language would be really tricky. Anything would be better than nothing, though. And then it can be further adjusted and expanded later. Even if devs could get away with shutting down the multiplayer and claiming the single player is enough. It would still fuck over games like The Crew because it simply became completely unplayable in every capacity. I'd like at least some law in effect even if some devs abuse it. We need to have every game at bare minimum functional in some capacity. Games like The Crew could easily function in an offline capacity. Shutting multiplayer features off is one thing. Making a paid product completely unavailable entirely is another.

>>WE HAD NO IDEA THAT THE GAME COULD POSSIBLY END ITS LIFE CYCLE AT SOME POINT
>Actually it says right here in the EULA that this can happen.
>>BUT I DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE EULA BEFORE I BOUGHT IT
>Yes you did, it's freely available online. Plus, you have the option to refund if you disagree with the EULA after purchase.
>>B-BUT I CAN'T BE EXPECTED TO READ A CONTRACT BEFORE AGREEING TO IT, WHAT IF IT SAYS THEY CAN KILL ME?
>That's silly, plus this argument is about informed consent. You can't claim that you weren't informed if you agreed to the contract.

>>713820342
making an offline play mode runs the risk of reducing the potential playerbase for the NEW live service slop that will shut down in 3 years and leave you with nothing

>>713820281
he made being straight extremely gay

>>713816740 (OP)
FUCK ASS PIRATE SOFTCORE
DO THE RIGHT THING EUROS
EEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>713819271
You don't need to hand over the source code. Just the binary and the document describing whatever custom hardware there'd be.

>>713820312
>buy a water heater
>company breaks into your house and uninstalls it after 5 years
>you have NO RIGHT to keep this water heater just because you paid for it, it's our intellectual property

>>713820527
eulas are not legally binding according to european union law
they are just wishful thinking from the publisher, they HOPE that you believe are law

>>713820312
Digital water heaters last forever

>>713820603
don't use Norm Macdonald to promote your commie statist bullshit, he was against this type of thing

>>713820527
Slurping on that corpo cock

>>713818070
imagine the smell...

>>713816791
/thread

Not a single good game in the history of video games was ever lost to a dev shutting down the servers.

>>713820312
>buy shit
>the company BREAK the shit you bought from them and ask you to buy a new one
This is what it is trying to put a stop to, it take less then a minute to read the SKG petition and anyone who read it know you're either retarded or a corpo

>>713820281
He likes girls https://youtu.be/Y2Y5KVtU810

>>713820816
maybe if that ever happens I will care about it, until then you are begging the government to ruin video games in order to solve a problem that doesn't exist

>>713820394
i'll gb2 /g/ as soon as c*nsoleplebs gb2 /toy/

>>713820782
So far.

>>713820651
What good is that gonna do you when the custom bullshit in question is some amazingly awful AWS Enterprise server management solution that you'll never have access to?
These servers aren't running on commodity x86 Windows boxes, they're heavily optimized for various cloud solutions that are all some level of proprietary

>>713819074
>if anyone understands investments, its investors.
AHAHA...AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! There are no dumber people on this planet than ''investors''. Especially when it comes to videogames.

>>713820930
How many rupees did you just acquire from this singular post?

>>713820782
hawken

>>713820094
the developer who do you think foots the bill for ramps when a building is constructed? they do it because they have to no because they want to retard

>>713821050
So much wasted potential because of poor monetization and handling. Gameplay was really fun.

>>713820997
Yea sure the actually smart people are poorfags that own nothing like you, not the people running society.

>>713821018
unpaid shill calling everyone else a shill, such a common theme in these threads

>>713820997
You're confusing the CEO with investors.
CEOs communicate their dumb ideas to investors, investors go along with it which I admit make them pretty stupid too and then they end up with less money than before.

>>713820990
you wouldn't need to operate it at the same scale

>>713820180
The movement is weirdly condescending in some aspects. The whole thing is predicated on most consumers (normies) being too stupid to understand that they're buying into live service games that will eventually end, when the normies in actuality, fully understand this and still buy into it so they can have a short term activity to do with friends. For most people it's a question of value rather than property rights. Maybe in an ideal world every company can be forced to fork over tools to run private servers or people just stop paying for live service games, but neither of those are realistic.

>>713816814
>grrr, I hate when the manufacturer provides a service manual online!
Piratard leave

>>713819892
>asmon
Why are you making up shit? He literally disagrees with Jason and agreed that he's a bad actor.

>>713817520
That "end of life"(eol) is usually just making a game be playable without internet connection to the publisher/dev servers. The thing is that most MMOs already have that tool because how else do you think devs test their games?
The SKG demands for THE FUTURE games to have it, of course it would be preferable for current and older games to get an official patch to make them work without dev/publisher servers. The eol would be made during the development, and wouldn't be a huge work for devs.
People tend to assume it would be a huge hassle, but like 99.9% indie devs don't face problems with this as they don't use "always-online" stuff, and the few small studios usually that do use, pushes happily patches out for it.
It is the big publishers that rarely wants to push this kind of eol plans because it would take sales from their NEW always-online game.

>>713821121
It's not about scale, it's about hardware and software compatibility.
You would not be able to run the vast majority of these server binaries on anything that a consumer is able to get their hands on

....they're video games. Shit goes away. Not saying it's right, but it's also not a big fucking deal.

That said, I'm sure there are tens of thousands of people out there playing some MMO, or even phone game, that's on it's deathbed. Make peace with it and move away. It's not that hard to do with friends and family. It's not hard to do for a video game.

>>713816814
The developers and publishers have a moral responsibility to sell people a product that isn't deliberately designed to break after the point of sale.
You may as well be complaining that its "unfair" for developers to have to QA test their games before launch.

>>713820972
And never will. Any game that requires an internet connection is automatically shit.

>>713821138
publishers are straight up lying to their customers
some games are being sold as if they were live services when they don't fit all the criteria, or vice versa, some games appear as normal one time goods purchases and then some form of online authentication is added after release
there needs to be more transparency

>>713821240
>If we plan to do more work that means it won't be more work
Why do I keep seeing this ludicrous claim in these threads? It's so obviously false that it must be some lie that your discord group invented and thinks will stick if they keep spamming it everywhere.

>>713821384
I forgot to add that I'm trans and into black guys.

>>713816740 (OP)
No, I don't support anything leftist scum like that support.

>>713821530
Based post

>>713821414
What shitty games are you even talking about?

>>713820930
Nigger is too fucking retarded to understand and make shit up in his mind ... impressive

>>713820221
Without commenting on the quality of that anon's law text, shit like that would likely not fly in an EU country. In my EU country, courts have to take the spirit of the law into consideration by looking at all the prep work that was done when drafting the law and the reason the law was made in the first place. If the reason the law was made was to keep games playable, you pushing an update that effectively bricks the game to get around that law would likely not work.

>>713816740 (OP)
i would support killing gacha games and the people who play them

>>713816814
this
I'm not a programmer so I have no idea how easy or hard this would be, but even if it takes an extra 0.01% of effort I would be against it
This would prevent some games from ever being made
You might not care because it's a niche scenario, but even if 1 (one) game doesn't get made because of this, that would be reason enough to not support it
Why would a small dev team who just want to have fun wanna risk dealing with lawsuits and fines etc?

I feel like people only support this cus they hate the unlikeable gay furry who's against it

>>713821495
See >>713816740 (OP)
>>713820180

>>713821404
Yeah. Because it's dead. It can be applied to any kind game.

>>713820221
Do that and watch your company's stock go to 0 as consumers openly denounce. Any company that would do something like that would be insta blacklisted by any reasonable gamer and anything they try to make would be a flop forever.

>>713821573
don't respond to any of my posts until you are fluent in English

>>713821345
you mean these server binaries?

Real shame that european citizen's initiative for Stop Killing Games is gonna fail

>>713821706
No, you need kill yourself, somebody need to convince you

>>713821649
making games accessible in a nice ideal, but I think people are short sighted when thinking of the consequences of legislating this
I'd rather this just happen privately, like how GOG makes old games accessible on modern hardware with mods and emulation

i still do not understand what stop killing games is and every time someone explains it i get more confused

>>713821570
i never mentioned the quality of the games.
as jesus once said:
"every shitty game is somebody's little treasure"

>>713816740 (OP)
STOP KILLING GAMES!

>>713821585
There is precedent within games released years or even decades prior to any potential new laws, therefore this decision was not made by the publisher due to the law. Unless the law specifically defines that such behavior is illegal, it would be absurd to automatically assume that it was done specifically to spite the law as it was written.
In addition if there is a minimum acceptable quantity of game (as stating that absolutely no features shall ever be removed from online games would effectively kill the entire industry), then that limit must be defined within the regulation itself. And good fucking luck with that.

>>713821958
They are asking for an entire new branch of government to oversee all video game development because The Crew, a racing MMO from 2014, shut down last year because nobody was playing it

>>713821429
Devs already do additional work they normally wouldn't have to do to get around existing laws and regulations so with is this suddenly unacceptable?

>>713821495
Shit goes away, especially when it comes to online video games. Have you not learned this yet, zoom zoom?

It shouldn't. But it does. Same with basically all other entertainment.

>>713821958
read the faq

>>713821649
For how many smaller studios would this even be a problem? If you're retarded enough to use always online DRM, make sure you integrate it in a way that you could strip it easily. Or, just don't use it, put your game on GoG, and you will never have a problem.

>>713816740 (OP)
Like people have said this is a bipartisan issue, I don't know what you're trying to gain by posting this guy in particular

>>713821731
kek

>>713821731
Believe or not but the way online gaming works has changed significantly within the past 14 years

>>713816740 (OP)
No, I support doing nothing.

>>713822070
>making things up to force people to work without compensation
yep you're a commie

>>713821649
Lucky for you this adds 0% more effort for vast majority of devs. The ones that are affected are scumbags trying build in planned obsolescence so their cattle will keep buying the same game over and over again. So really just crap churned out by big studios, annual sports games are a good example that would die out.

>>713821796
There is real effort from corporations to crush this. Corporations want the ''you will own nothing and you will be happy'' to happen to videogames.

>>713816814
Its not about developers having to keep the game alive forever but rather relisting server tools so people can host their own servers for games.

>>713821649
>This would prevent some games from ever being made
It only affects games that are always online bullshit. Not something a small dev team looking to have fun would make.

>>713821429
Anon, I don't mean this to be "me vs you" kind of thing or don't want to make fun of you or belittle you.
So I hope you read this post.

Coding a game to be reliant for game servers and being unable to run without checks that it is connected to publisher/developer servers takes more work than making a game run offline.
Seriously. Which is easier to code
>Super Mario 64 that runs offline
or
>Super Mario 64 that runs only if it's connected to Nintendo servers with constant checks and tick system to make sure it runs within the server along other Super Mario 64 games around the world
How can Gran Turismo 4 on PS2 run without internet, but Gran Turismo 7 on PS5 needs constant online connection to launch Career Mode?
It should be basic logic that you can launch a game without connecting to a corporation's servers to see if you are allowed to play a game you have bought with your own money.

>>713819171
Why?

>>713821345
Cloud services run on standard silicon and OS's. There's nothing you get from an Enterprise subscription except scalability.

>>713820729
Fuck you dickhead. Norm would totally enjoy doing something just to fuck with someone.

>>713822137
>this is a bipartisan issue
Anon, Europe in not America. They don't have just 2 parties. They have hundreds of parties.

>>713822179
They're getting paid, by their employer. It's not the government's job to pay the salaries of devs to do their job, even if it's to do work that is imposed by laws.

>>713816740 (OP)
lawbreakers can't be that bad

>>713816740 (OP)
hbomberguy is like destiny in their both gay as fuck buy somehow less insane than the majority of people on the internet

>>713821669
>Because it's dead.
No, because it's shit. Good games don't require internet connections period.

>>713822151
I'm sure they attached on a bunch of bullshit to enable microtransactions, but functionally I don't imagine the core being changed that much, at least to the point where it can't be released and used.

>>713816740 (OP)
No I think the EU government should mind it's own fucking business a lot more often. I also think that online games end service sometimes and this has always been the case and it shouldn't surprise anyone honest.

>>713822249
>you will own nothing and you will be happy
that's a WEF line
you know, the same people running the EU

>>713816740 (OP)
/v/ wants to kill all games thank you

>>713816740 (OP)
no, it's poorly thought out
just because it has [name of positive sounding thing i'd like to believe i agree with] doesn't mean it's good

>>713816740 (OP)
I'm skeptical as hell. Is this going to be a nothing burger and it get's all the signatures needed to only be voted NAY and then tosses? Or is this a monkey paw thing and it ends up making things worst. I support the idea but again, just skeptical.

>>713822337
No, he was explicitly against the government dictating to people what they are allowed to do in private

>>713822421
>I also think that online games end service sometimes and this has always been the case

>>713822421
crime becoming more and more normalized does not make it legal

>>713816740 (OP)
Unironically I would want Battleborn back.

>>713816814
Developer are already slave, what your point ?

>>713821993
I wasn't asking you about what you think of those shitty games, I'm asking you which shitty games you're talking about
>"every shitty game is somebody's little treasure"
Wow, I'm moved. Beautiful.

>>713822468
What do you personally thing is wrong with it?

>>713817519
It used to be that literally every single multiplayer game was like that.
The secret is that the game dying is a deliberate choice and not just an unfortunate circumstance of game development that you have to take extreme effort to get around. The default, original state of games, even multiplayer games, was that they were playable offline or you could use your own server.

>>713816740 (OP)
So you guys expect companies to just run servers for every online game ever made forever? Even if not a single person plays it for years? Wow

>>713822636
>Typo

>>713822717
All you need to do is allow custom servers.

>>713822665
And it's all your fault, anons.

>>713822046
>it would be absurd to automatically assume that it was done specifically to spite the law as it was written.
It would of course be up to the court to decide.
>In addition if there is a minimum acceptable quantity of game (as stating that absolutely no features shall ever be removed from online games would effectively kill the entire industry), then that limit must be defined within the regulation itself. And good fucking luck with that.
There would probably be guidance in the law and how much room is left to interpretation is difficult to say, but it would ultimately be up to the court to decide what is acceptable and what is not. I'm not going to try to word something here, because I'm not a professional lawmaker, but acting like it can't be done is just defeatism. It's not like dedicated game servers is some lost tech that we can never get back. It doesn't have to be a black and white issue either. Just because some games might not be fun to play on an end-of-life plan doesn't mean they all will be. Laws also aren't set in stone so once you see a law in action, it can be amended and refined to make life easier both for consumer and developer.

>>713822468
>poorly thought out
what do you even mean? What else do you think needs to be done here? It's just an initiative. The point is to briefly describe a problem, get signatures, and then discuss that problem in more detail and see if there's a solution to it.
There isn't really anything to "think out" at this phase. It's just a matter of showing how many people are facing a specific problem.

>>713822536
>to only be voted NAY and then tosses?
it aligns with some other European campaigns that are currently active or that have already been approved. It's very unlikely to be tossed away.

>>713822717
no, i expect them to fuck of from the surface of the planet and do a hero, but we can't have nice thing so them seething about needing to made a single patch for ofline version is a good compromise

>>713816740 (OP)
Link to it if you're going to make a thread https://www.stopkillinggames.com/eci

>require devs to state if a game will have 1 year of support on the box
I feel like the obvious monkey paw that nobody is seeing is, great now all games have 1 year of included support. now you can subscribe for the next year. what? the box price only included one year of support! you want more? then pay for the next year too!
now games function like a microsoft office 365 or adobe subscription. great job. you saved gaming. but at least we can play uncharted 2 multiplayer with the other 4 people still who give a shit.

Video games were never meant to be played forever.
MOVE
THE
FUCK
ON

>>713816740 (OP)
I want whatever gives us a video game crash

>>713822773
Sounds stupid. Some games are meant to stay dead. If I personally want a game I made to never see the light of day again, I should have that right, even if you paid for it.

>>713822847
Are you saying it's a big waste of time to force devs to say games might not work forever? Which everyone already knew? Especially in this case where they only latched onto The Crew after they knew it was going to shut down?

>>713816740 (OP)
no it's retarded. Developers have no obligation to provide you their code or support private servers. If you don't like it don't buy the fucking game.

>>713822858
make me

>>713816740 (OP)
I hate videogames, waste of time

>>713819180
>Define "able to play the game" in a way that can be used in a one-size-fits-all legal text
Having all its functionalities as advertised, indicated on packaging, given in statement or interview by its developer or publisher, or otherwise; all be available and operable.

>>713822968
>have no obligation
not yet.
we are trying to fix that, right now, and God willing we will.
making sure the product i purchased works is THEIR job, not mine

>>713822665
Fucking this
there is 0 excuse for killing games. It's deliberate, it's not a fucking accident. and faggots here are genuinely advocating for having less rights.

>>713822858
True. You don't have to keep playing them 24/7 for decades. But if I can play and enjoy it six months and ten years later I get nostalgic and can get a few friends to play that one game I enjoyed a decade ago for a few matches, I should also be able to do that too.

>>713818190
But all the old games you played are all playable, because killing games as a practice is a fairly recent thing, you blistering fucking retard. You're literally only here to shitpost and to try to make people upset, you don't give a fuck about anything, do you?

>>713822858
>Books were never meant to be read forever.
>MOVE
>THE
>FUCK
>ON

>>713822787
Anon, some of us are serious when it comes to gaming.
>i said that i would boycott Steam
>now i shop exclusively from GOG for more than 7 years
>signed the SKG petition

>>713822968
No one has to do anything until forced by laws. That's why laws get made.

>>713822847
>require devs to state if a game will have 1 year of support on the box
where are you getting this exact demand from?
>the box price only included one year of support! you want more? then pay for the next year too!
Some companies will find this business practice profitable (isn't that how WoW and Diablo 4 are sold?), others won't and they'll deliver the game differently.
You're pretending like it's impossible to make games which comply with consumer demands despite literally every game made before 2010 and 99% of current games being compliant.

>>713822881
>if a company sells you a product they should be allowed to come to your house and take it away
OK, retard.

>>713816740 (OP)
I say kill them and let the cream float to the top

>>713816740 (OP)
Is skg just poorfag cope? Like bro can't you afford more than one video game?

>>713823193
7 years? Well good for you.
But unfortunately the MW2 boycott where the vast majority of gamers showed how little of a shit they give about dedicated servers was 16 years ago. Dedicated servers have been dead longer than they were ever alive.

>mfw some corporate bootlicker always comes to the rescue of the multimillion dollar company by declaring that this movement is demanding they keep the game's servers running
It's just so fucking hard for them to release private server software, or release the source code, or actually update the game so the resources it'd normally get from the central server are just client side so the damn thing works. Knockout City was abandoned by EA and yet the devs after failing to keep it up themselves released a version that works off private servers, the game is abandonware but still playable. Literally what excuse does any big budget company have to not do the bare minimum? The fucking AVENGERS game had a proper EOL plan and that was killed alongside Crystal Dynamics in the same damn breath.

>>713823275
trying too hard, here's your (you)

>>713816740 (OP)
I support banning Twitter snip posters

>>713816740 (OP)
Theoretically but I also intensely hate the EU so I'm conflicted.

>>713823275
It's because I can afford a lot of videogames that I want to know I will still be able to play them in twenty years.

>>713823367
This board is infested with both genuine corporate shills, retards who fucking hate everything and genuinely want everything to be as shit as possible, and faggots who actually believe the shit they're saying. The latter ones are the worst.

>>713816740 (OP)
No, I think stop killing games has an ulterior motive and also every game they want to preserve is dogshit, why would you want to preserve dogshit?

>pls stop killing games
>the games in danger of "dying"

Kill them with extreme prejudice

>>713823518
>No, I think stop killing games has an ulterior motive
What is it?

>>713823508
>/v/ has always begged for the government to insert itself into video game development! Everyone that disagrees is a shill from India!

no. I don't even know what it is but the faggy slogan sounds like something a libtard came up with during gorge floyd era

>>713823562
Shell company to then money launder upon getting funding after 1milly sigs to then campaign and intentionally fail while getting a bag.

>>713822636
i think that a company shouldn't be compelled to release either source or binaries because they choose to no longer support a product
at the same time, i think users should be free to examine, document, and modify the programs that they buy

i think what SKG wants is naive and misguided
i wouldn't want to be forced to share in-house tools that are trade secrets, including servers, assuming a user could even make use of such resources
i also wouldn't want to be forced to spend capital on services that i no longer want to support
of course, a company could always choose to share those assets (i personally think this contributes to longevity of a game and cultivates good will among users and a strong community)

maybe a better petition with more sensible propositions will come along, but this one is dead in the water

>>713823390
mold man tried to push this in the EU because the USA is too fucked for this to ever have a chance of working. He did try some things here, but it didn't get far because corporate bs is too ingrained. The hope is that EU law changes will lead to changes in other places too, as has happened with other things like refunds for video games.

>ah a nice thread....NGRGGGHHHH NEED TO BE CONTRARIAN NGGGRHHHHHH COPE SEETHE CHUD WOKE AAAAAAAHHHHH

>>713823548
I'll gladly save 20 shitty games if it also means I can save 1 good game.

>>713823252
ok, then what are the demands? because literally everyone seems to have a different opinion on the matter. including this thread.

I'd be livid if I didn't get to see my daughter have the emotional reaction to Aerith's death that she did like I did when I was a teen, maybe she'll also learn why I married a woman who cosplayed Tifa too somewhere in the future lol. It is weird how someone would be against skg.

>>713823613
You don't genuinely care, you're just trying to get a rise out of people that do. Fuck off parasite, I know who you are.

>>713816814
Hi Thor, got so mad that you got owned on twitter that you're shitting up v threads now

>>713823713
Go read it if you want to know.

>>713816740 (OP)
Pirate BTFO your movement, get bent faggot and your games will be abandonware forever soon enough, as all things should be.

Keep killing shit games

SIGNATURES PER CAPITA

>TOP 5
Finland - 0.41
Estonia - 0.33
Ireland - 0.31
Denmark - 0.29
Sweden - 0.28

>BOTTOM 5
France, Spain, Romania, Czechia, Bulgaria - 0.09
Greece - 0.07
Italy - 0.05

>>713822546
fuck you faggot, don't dictate to me what a dead comedian would find funny like you fucking know something you fucking piece of shit. Suck a dick. Actually go fuck yourself.
Killjoy ass bitch. Absolute Karen. Fuck you, I bet you're Canadian you CUNT.

>>713823746
How am I the parasite? You are begging the government to insert commissars into every game studio. Eat shit commie.

>>713823739
>It is weird how someone would be against skg.
Lots of "people" don't even have opinions. They just parrot whatever their favorite corporate plant streamer's opinion is.

>>713823746
You literally want to inject government oversight into the vidya industry to then control companies even further, fuck off you fucking kike.

>>713816814
I do, bring back the CRUNCH

>>713823657
>i think users should be free to examine, document, and modify the programs that they buy
Prohibited by EU copyright law due to international trade agreements with the United States of America demanding them as lobbied by the movie and music industries

>>713823897
oh no the jews are calling jews the jews.
FUCK OFF RETARDS

>>713820180
>All the big youtubers from all aisles of the political spectrum are now hopping on board because the deadline is almost here
>Ferretfag already made his position against it clear and he's too prideful and stubborn to change it
How fucked is Thor McVoicechanger at this point? Even his lefty audience is turning on him since the herd mentality is now urging them towards SKG instead of against it.

>>713823850
>bottom 5
>lists 7 countries

>>713821240
It's only a problem for devs who want to shut down old games so people don't play them over new ones, like it's the case with EA and Battlefield.

>>713823850
MAMMA MIA
PIZZA PEPERONNI!!

>>713823859
It's obvious from your post that you aren't a comedian yourself, so why are you using a dead comedian as a political prop? I try to be fair though. Show me one example of Norm Macdonald saying that the government should force private citizens to do things they don't want to do and I will apologize.

>>713820076
This is why you don't use terms like 'core gameplay features' - but why you define it like >>713823035
Having all functionality with which the game was directly or indirectly advertised, be in working order.
If a game was advertised as having multiplayer features; if advertisements show those features; if sponsored reviews show those features; etc. then they're part of the game's promised functionality. The interesting connotation of this, is that by definition it makes pulling the multiplayer support a case of non-conformance under contract, or failure to supply. Unless the game in question was very clearly advertised as having multiplayer available only for a limited time.
(Which is sort of the lowest bar of concession that SKG was willing to settle for as well.)

>>713823946
yeah, i know.
this is THE problem. you can write books on why.
not companies deciding not to support shit anymore.

>>713823889
But it literally does not take anything away from you just gives you more rights.

>>713823850
ebin

>>713822151
No it has not.

>>713823713
None. The petition has no demands. Supporters are praying really hard for free server tools and, but the only goal of the petitionis to STAR A CONVERSATION that's to be discussed later with legislators and surely that will work out 100% guaranteed without a doubt with live service games ending forever.

It's wild how no one gave SKG a single FUCK until drama started then all of a sudden people come out of the wood works saying they liked it all along. I fucking despise everyone

>>713823985
nigger they tie for 4th/5th place

>>713823949
>please defend and sign my kike agreement 111111
>please it wont inject more gov oversight into the vidya industry for more wokeslop 111111
>please chud just sign it for your goyim 11111
Get bent kike

>>713816740 (OP)
I don't know what it's about but PirateShitware is against it so I support it

>>713823668
>ill gladly eat ten pounds of shit out of a toilet if it means i can flush the toilet

>>713822286
Fuck you.

>>713824085
I literally signed the petition the first week. I think that the ''drama'' simply made SKG visible to the normies which were oblivious before that.

>>713823850
Finns being based yet again

>>713823657
this would have made more sense if not for the fact that the default modus operandi WAS to allow offline mode / user hosted servers, even for the online games, up till about ~15 years ago.
It was very much a viable option, you don't have to share secret proprietary source code to make it work. You can't argue sharing already-compiled programs would somehow lead to intellectual property theft, because every game already has to share much of those with the user for the game to function to begin with. Claiming purely the backend server-side infrastructure has somehow become so much more advanced that it's worth keeping secret is a bunch of BS, because we all know those things have gotten worse and not better over time.
and regarding having to spend capital - again, the /default/ option was to make it useable offline at end-of-life. Conscious business decisions were made to make this unviable, so that companies could sell the new game after killing the old one. The goal is not to force additional post-EoL support - just to prevent purposeful, malicious disabling of the software.

>>713816740 (OP)
What's Lawbreakers again? Seems like something from the guy who made Gears of War and it seems that has a decent gunplay but doesn't explain why's so hated.

>>713823850
>favorite games
What kind of retard has live service slop as a favorite game?

>>713823850
Uh to all the Italians in this thread the Pope will die in his sleep tonight unless you support the initiative right now.

>>713823850
>those bottom 5
makes sense, though I figured sweeden would be lower desu, they seem like the more richfaggot/capitalist haven out of the nations

I think this doesn't have much to do with developers and more to do with shitty publishers/investors that push shitty models for video games. Nothing would scare an investor more than have to sell a game with a tacked on EOL date attached to it because then they would believe that the game wouldn't sell if people knew before hand they were killing it. They also fear giving a community the ability to play the game themselves too because most likely, they think it would cut into the sales of the next piece of shit game they're publishing.

>>713816740 (OP)
I support Killing Games.

>>713823973
Let's just put it this way: he's going to have to run

>>713824171
Finns being kikes yet again, you wont even hit 1 million lol, your movement has 0 momentum because its cause is hollow and sinister.

>>713823850
>bottom countries are all in southern Europe which is poorer and has less gamers
Socioeconomics really showing up when it comes to videogames.

>>713824034
So all that would change is every game ad and back cover would have tiny asterisk following Online Multiplayer*
*supported at least until Jan 1st 2027 or later
And you know it would be a short fucking time in case the plug needs to be pulled early like Concord. So the only difference is that instead of two days, even the shittiest of live-service games would get like 6 months max. But absolutely nothing would change for the successful titles Battlefield or GTA Online, their end dates would just get continually pushed back until one day they just end.

>>713823657
out of curiosity, where did you get your info that SKG demands devs to give out source code or binaries etc.? Would be cool to know where people keep getting misinformation like this.
SKG wants games to be playable despite developer support going away.
For example Gran Turismo 7. I like to use this example as it's always-online requirement is so pointless for Career Mode which is 100% singleplayer. SKG requires that games like Gran Turismo 7 could be played without the internet connection to dev servers that they in the end stops support for.
With MMOs, I can understand it be bit stranger, but the idea is that you can launch your game without requirement of dev support.
BUT THE BIG IDEA is that the developers/publishers have "End of Life" plan for their game from the moment they release said game. As in they have a patch or such that they can push out before dropping the support completely, in a way that the game works without server connection.
MMOs like WoW have had private servers since forever for example, so it isn't like it's impossible task.

I think people overestimate how hard it is to make a patch like that, especially as many games can be already run offline mode by the devs themselves.

>>713823850
>Finland - 0.41
>Estonia - 0.33
Common Mongol W

>>713823657
The petition isn't unreasonable at all you are just creating white noise there.

>>713823850
turns out the lazy med memes were true

>>713816740 (OP)
Retards will sqwak about shit like this while going into debt to buy every mtx that comes out. I know COD players that post unhinged multi page rants about EA and kotick but again, buy every single crossover slop and battlepass that comes out on day 1.

Goyim are cattle. Live service games suck, but you know goddamn well they're not gonna be around forever, so either stop buying them or shut the fuck up.

>>713824131
You're the guy asking for a 100th plate of shit rather than flushing the toilet so you don't have to eat the shit anymore in that metaphor.

>>713824174
We all know it's the sweet micro transaction whales they want. There is no other reason not to have self-hosted multiplayer.

>>713820189
It's more like a legally binding referendum than a dumb internet petition.

>>713823108
It's the toxic mentality of "e-celebs I don't like are supporting it, so I will be a retarded contrarian".
Good thing that the more they talk about it the more likely it is to succeed.

>>713820185
>Nobody is asking for owning the code or assets
Succdems get the boolit too.

It's not just online only games like the crew. There are tons of games for instance that relied on services like gamespy for their networking and once that shut down it fucked over a lot of games unless people made work arounds for it. Not even mentioning games that have tacked on multiplayer that are unplayable even if it were P2P because they still relied on a central server.

>>713824028
How about you suck my left nut bitch

>>713824373
Nobody knows anything about what anyone is going to do. The petition is literally just to start a conversation. It's absolutely wild that people are against this because it's like saying "we don't want anyone to talk about game preservation at all in literally any way". It's a foot in the door, it should have gotten 100 million signatures in the first month.

>>713820189
Imagine not being an EUchad

>>713816740 (OP)
STOP KILLING GAMES!

I haven't seen anyone mention a single game or company that would be negatively affected in a significant way by this petition being turned into law.

>>713823850
>Estonia 2nd highest per capita
>Still below threshold
how tf were these thresholds calculated

>>713820312
>buy water heater
>for inexplicable reasons it requires a pipe of cold water to be run over to another property down the street, which will pipe hot water back.
>you really don't like the idea of your availability of hot water being conditioned on no-one fucking with the piping, but the old type of heaters that would just work locally are no longer being sold anywhere so it is what it is
>5 years down the line the heater's manufacturer no longer feels like renting the particular property down the street, and they're moving up state.
>no more hot water for you.

>>713824459
That's why you need proper EU id in order so sign up and only Europeans or people with dual citizenship have those.
>>713824473
There are a ton of new games that will be affected. Think of nu-Hitman for example, Helldivers 3 etc.

>>713816814
developers don't want their life work to disappear just because some kike wants to sell the newest slop, retarded corporate cocksucker.

>>713824090
>4th/5th place
no, they obviously tie for 3rd place
is this the famous eurangutan edumacation I keep hearing about

>>713824373
>out of curiosity, where did you get your info that SKG demands devs to give out source code or binaries etc.? Would be cool to know where people keep getting misinformation like this.
It's not innocent misinformation, it's an intentional misdirection (straw man fallacy) because they're too afraid to say the real arguments for killing games out loud.

I'm in the pro killing games camp but I admit the actual reasons for killing games are a hard sell to the masses. I just really fucking hate intellectual dishonesty even if it's on "my side."

Kill more games and fire more developers
burn this industry to the ground

>>713824473
So what happens under this supposed new legislation if a game relies on a third party service like GameSpy or PSN or Xbox Live to function and those services stop support?
Eventually Sony is gonna stop supporting online play on their older consoles, would publishers then be on the hook for somehow magically figuring a way out of it? Would Sony be mandated to provide eternal PSN support on PS4? Or is this just a PC-exclusive law somehow?

>>713824685
>The thresholds correspond to the number of the Members of the European Parliament elected in each Member State, multiplied by the total number of Members of the European Parliament.

https://citizens-initiative.europa.eu/thresholds_en

>>713824650
miku stop using the n-word, it's degrading

>>713823713
The initiatives are not there to say what laws should exist and what solution should be applied. The initiatives are literally "hey, a fuckton of us have the following issue and we'd like it fixed". In this case, the "demand" is literally the first paragraph on the website:
>"Stop Killing Games" is a consumer movement started to challenge the legality of publishers destroying video games they have sold to customers. An increasing number of video games are sold effectively as goods - with no stated expiration date - but designed to be completely unplayable as soon as support from the publisher ends. This practice is a form of planned obsolescence and is not only detrimental to customers, but makes preservation effectively impossible. Furthermore, the legality of this practice is largely untested in many countries.

Essentially, get rid of intentional planned obsolescence in video games that are sold as a product instead of being a service with a set expiration date.

>>713816740 (OP)
>sony releases their $500m budget AAAA hit game - Concord
>shut down servers after few days
>$40 lost
I still don't believe why people are against this initiative

>>713824431
Nigger i havent bought shit in the last 5 years. Youre the shit eater. Not me.

>>713824834
It's fine, Miku is a nigga.

>>713824206
That would be sweet. Never supporting it now.
Also, wasn't this supposed to be about reaching 1 million in total? Who cares about per-capita in that case, I'm surprised there were some many signatures from this fake country already.

>>713824805
Lawmakers would work those kinds of specific situations with feedback from the industry.

>Petition means games you like won't be taken away from you
Good
>NOO PETITION MEANS AAA GAME COMPANIES WILL GO OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO RUN THEIR MMOS
Good

What's the downside?

>>713823859
based

>>713821958
It seeks to hunt down and enslave the publishers of online-only games.

>>713824843
So all that's gonna happen is that in the future games will have a set expiration date that's communicated to the buyer upon purchase with a provision that it may or may not be extended if the game is successful and profitable

It's great when people who don't know what they're talking about try to make laws to fix a problem they don't understand.

>>713824174
>disabling of the software
i agree that this is a serious problem

i just read the UK petition wording. i hate to say it, but it doesn't address the underlying issue of digital rights laws being draconian. suppose the petition goes through and starts a discussion on remote kill features, and these are effectively outlawed. then suppose a company no longer wants to support a product. they can't kill it to lock consumers out, but they can still rely on how digital rights laws are written to prevent people from reverse engineering there systems and publishing their findings. if a program is written to go through a server, and the server is made unavailable, the client hasn't been killed, but is still useless, and developing and distributing a server is tantamount to breaking digital rights laws.

>>713824857
>Sony forced to keep the master server up forever
Would be hilarious.

>>713824857
they refunded everyone

>>713820527
The effective duration of contract is defined by EU legislation as a material characteristic of the product, which is essential precontractual information that has to be actively supplied to the consumer in advance of sale and to fit the legal transparency requirements cannot be relied upon to be communicated via the small print legalese of ancillary terms and conditions.

If a game has a limited lifespan and plans to sunset server support at one point; it has to communicate that at its point of sale explicitly. E.g. a big fat banner with an expiration date.

>>713824989
>What's the downside?
There is no downside, it is all upside.

>>713824909
>I've been fasting for 5 years, it means I don't have to care that all food is now literal shit
Good for you but then there is no reason for you to stop people from trying to change the shit back to being edible food.

>>713824989
Fans have run pirate servers for MMOs for decades now, that ain't even a real issue.

'Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713825102
don't care, I want to play the game I bought

>>713824650
indie and real game have server running forever, you can still boot Ratched and Clank pvp game on ps3 and find room of people playing

>>713824843
What people don't understand is all the AAA bullshit slop that is supposedly being "threatened" could continue to exist with zero changes to their profit models according to the petition, if they just add expiration dates. That's it.

If Ubisoft wants to release GOD OF SLOP ONLINE GAY BLOWJOBS EDITION all they need to do is slap a "end of support planned for 2029" in the fine print of their release page.

>>713820782
Marvel Heroes

why is that a nightmare

>>713825062
>expiration date
THE GAME CODE GOT SPOILED

>>713825184
It's a legal grey zone, I'd rather do it within a legal framework. Once again, there is no reason to try stop this if you can't formulate a single actual downside.

;Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713816814
that's not what it says

>>713825117
You didn't read the literally 70+ pages of bullshit that some companies like Activision make you read now before even starting a game? I'm pretty sure they tell you somewhere in there that the online services may be shut down at any moment

>>713819141
Absolutely nothing about this is specific to multiplayer. Basically every singleplayer game also has online requirements nowadays, which will kill the game whenever the publisher decides to. So this affects you too.

how we looking today, bros? is the momentum still going strong?

>>713825184
>these passion projects that developers have spent countless man hours getting working isn't a real issue, no big deal, ez pz
dunning kruger poster child

>>713824989
There isn't one. Worst case scenario things will remain as gay as they already are.

[Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713825254
>buy a book
>it self combusts after a given period of time

>>713825349
from the FAQ
>What we are asking for is that they implement an end-of-life plan to modify or patch the game so that it can run on customer systems with no further support from the company being necessary.
this doesn't happen with magic, but with man hours

>>713825341
>>713825506
/v/ the musical ain't for another few months lil homie

>>713825062
That's the worst case scenario, yes. But I personally find even that acceptable.
Still, the more informed a customer is about a game's inclusion of always-online DRM the less likely the customer is to buy that product. So, it would result in at least some companies pulling back from these anti-consumer practices.
The initiative does also want to find a way to ensure that games can be permanently saved no matter if they're a service or not, but it's not likely to happen.

\Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713825465
>MMO
>passion project

>>713821649
Why is a retardly low amount of games not being made worse than a much larger amount of games not being playable?

>>713818740
>(((investors)))

>>713825575
see
>>713822352

>>713821138
no, not really. Its like a gamble each time you play one. It COULD last for ever, as some live-service games are still going strong, or it could shut down within 11 days like Concord. People simply don't know, and that ambiguity is an advantage to abuse, but as apparent witth this movement, it's also a constantly anxiety hanging over gaming.

The whole genesis of Live-Service was predicated on the notion of a game that kind of lasted forever and kept being updated. The very first MMOs weren't thought of as these disposable things. People kind of assumed that Ultima Online would keep growing, keep getting updates, new graphics and evolve alongside technology. Hindsight tells us that didn't happen but that's what people really thought back then 20 or more years ago.

You can just ask yourself this: If an MMO launched today and was upfront about exactly when it would shut down "This game will only be online for 7 years, then it will close at this date etc", do you think people would even bother to play it? I guarantee no one would bother to play it. You'd have some weirdos applauding their transparency, but no one would want to sink any time into it when the terms are actually spelled out plainly.

Do you think Steam would be such a successful platform if the store pages said "Rent" instead of 'Buy"? I believe Steam would have never gotten off the ground in the first place if that was the case. Instead we have a situation where they SAY one thing and then mean another, and used that to build billion dollar industries based off a lie about ownership.

Even if they fix the wording and put end-dates on every game and change the word "Buy" to "Rent", it still means they got to build their billion-dollar platforms off of lies.

>>713825462
It's at +29k so far today
Pretty good but we'll probably need another big eceleb endorsement to keep it going

-Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games...

>>713824650
because every time someone argues against this petition you slippery fucks fall back on the "we'll figure it out later" argument

-Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games...

>>713821649
>this 1 imaginary game that could possible not be made it's worth more than the hundreds of games being killed right now
you faggots are clowns and your poor indie devs angle doesn't work because they aren't the ones making online only games,

>>713825575
It took "man hours" to set up a dependence on a central server in the first place. If "man hours" was actually an issue, games wouldn't be always online live service at all. There's a reason you never see small indies with limited budgets making live service, only giant companies with thousands of workers and millions in cash.

=Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713825672
so SKG only applies to some games?

>>713824989
>there is literally no downside, vote for me
if you don't immediately distrust an argument like this you are retarded and deserve to be a slave

>>713825184
As someone who was a spare time private server dev, we were running Mangos, for a number of years a decade ago, I can tell you that it sucks. You have to reverse engineer everything, all the stupid client side weirdness that you can't figure out have to be solved server-side, scripting content is a pain without documentation on what animations to use, etc etc. Getting an official server from the developers, given it actually works, would be a godsend.

>>713820221
Article 19 of EU Directive 2019/770 on the sale of digital content applies.
Where publishers modify existing digital content in a way that negatively impacts a consumer's ability to access or use the content, the consumer either has to be given the ability to continue to use the prior version with full support intact or they have a legal right to terminate the contract and in doing so would be owed a full refund.

I.e. if a publisher were to try to pull that one, they could end up having to repay all earnings from every copy sold over the game's life time, depending on how many consumers aware of their actually rights end up invoking them. And news spreading like wildfire via social media would make that a LOT of consumers. Potentially enough to make a big publisher that is operating on a razor's edge of available liquidity, hit insolvency.

*Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

These threads have proven to me that the biggest problem on this board isn't SEAfriends, gooks, chinks, or trannys. It is smug, faggy, self-righteous Eurocucks.

>>713825695
Its not a petition, its an Initiative. And that's the point. The Initiative passes and then we hash out what the changes or protections will be

>>713824615
>EU
>Chad
LMAO. The female members of your family have been sexually assaulted by NUMEROUS swarthy Arab types.

>>713825740
those man hours were worked voluntarily

>>713822383
Yeah. Because it's dead. It can be applied to any kind of game.

>>713825695
>doesn't give an example

)Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713825531
What would you prefer?

Scenario 1:
>Go to buy a book
>Several books are for sale, all of them with dates printed on them that say "will self combust at this time"
>Judge the cost of the books versus their date of combustion, pay what you consider to be a reasonable price based on these ratios
>Plan around reading the book before it combusts

Scenario 2:
>Go to buy a book
>The books have no dates printed on them just different prices
>Buy one
>Days/Months/Years later go to read it again
>It's gone

>>713825802
I trust in eurobros to save us.

^Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713825815
Retard.

>>713825602
Consumers are already used to always-online games.
You're also assuming that most consumers are complete fucking morons who don't understand that when the box says "INTERNET REQUIRED" that there may be something on the other end of the internet that needs to function to play the game. Like it doesn't just need to check if you have internet, the game is actually doing something on the internet.
Once again this will likely result in maybe a minor change to slightly stronger wording. Pic related, the box for the game that started this all.

#Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>If enough literal who nobodies put their name on this list AAA corporations will HAVE to listen to us!

No petition has ever accomplished anything, ever.

>>713825746
Yes? Games that can't
>run on customer systems with no further support from the company being necessary.
after end-of-life.
That's literally what you quoted in your previous post. I don't know how you can miss that.

>>713825778
I am literally asking people to provide a downside

>>713825259
>they bring it back as a single player
>it's post console update version

>>713818479
that's not what it's about

%Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713825827
>mutt immediately starts babbling his interracial rape fantasies
this is why we are better than you

>>713825896
I would shoot myself at the airport.

>>713825782
How many people got their money back when Destiny 2 removed half the fucking game?

>>713820076
Exact interpretation of the law has always been up to courts. Ever hear of "reasonable doubt"? Also up for interpretation depending on circumstances. Will be decided in court. No point in trying to list every single potential case in the law itself, it's all about making intent clear.

>>713822046
>Unless the law specifically defines that such behavior is illegal
It kind of does - or at least: if the publisher would do it, they open themselves up to a massive lawsuit in damages in redress from traders being required to start issuing refunds, as per >>713825782

@Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713816740 (OP)
Yes, I want local server functionality in my games.

>>713825781
This is something I wish more people realized when they talk about this stuff... People say shit like "we dont need protections, you can already play frivate servers for any MMO" when they don't realize that the reason thats possible is because someone is fucking insane and willing to dedicate months or years of their life to making it happen.

Someone last thread pointed out that Everquest on PS2 has been revived recently, and they seem to not realize that that project has been a decade in the making. The guy working on it would stream him testing things laboriously while his kids in the backgrounds, and streaming to like 2 or 3 viewers at a time for years.

People take this shit for granted and also don't realize that less popular games don't get this treatment and end up disappearing for good. Once a game is shut down, reverse engineering this shit because 100x harder too. You don't have a way to get official network medium

,Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713826040
>UHHHHHMMMMM... This leftist dystopia shithole I live in is BASED ACKCHUALLY

Yeah... no. LMAO

>>713816740 (OP)
I want to play Lost Planet 2 and Evolve without jumping through hoops, yes.

<Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713823548
I'll gladly save 20 shitty games if it means killing 20 shitty publishers

>>713826170
you've never set food in europe, bro. don't fall for brainrot memes on the international senior skinnydipping forum

,.Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

,.]Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713818960
If i buy something i can do damn well whatever i want with it

>>713825827
>>713826170
fucking kill yourself nigger faggot

>>713825069
>prevent people from reverse engineering there systems and publishing their findings
Decompilation, reverse-engineering, compatibility layers, emulation - these are all legal in EU and even in most places in the world.
>if a program is written to go through a server, and the server is made unavailable, the client hasn't been killed, but is still useless
That's exactly what the initiative wants to prevent. Publishers would have to find a way to make the games work after the end of service.

>>713825932
>most consumers are complete fucking morons who don't understand that when the box says "INTERNET REQUIRED" that there may be something on the other end of the internet that needs to function to play the game
Most people do not get that, yes.

>>713816740 (OP)
This guy is retarded. It wouldn't be retroactive obviously. Any existing games would be exempt.

[]['Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713824273
based

>>713818365
That doesn't look like foam...

>>713816740 (OP)
this guy isn't funny

>450+ post hbomberguy thread
based!

>enters a thread
>just to spam
for what purpose, no one forces you to enter threads that aren't to your taste

>>713826254
You literally live in a psuedo-caliphate cocksucker. Muslims literally pray in the open in your shithole walkable cities to exert their dominance over you.

';';'Cause it's a bittersweet refrain,
Life drifts by like a midnight train.
You fight the current, but you're still the same—
And yeah, I support killing games.

You try to change, but the world won’t bend,
Caught in the loop, again and again.
A silent war behind calm frames,
And still, I support killing games.

You dream of peace, but they sell you war,
And what you have don’t matter no more.
They give you rules with shifting names—
And me? I support killing games.

I’m not proud, but I’m not clean,
Just a cog in a cold machine.
And when the sun forgets to rise,
We learn to live with lowered eyes.

No, I can’t break free,
No matter what they say.
The path I walk was laid for me
Long before today.
Every step, the echo’s same—
I support killing games.

I’ve paid my dues in blood and breath,
Held the line between life and death.
We all just play, and no one claims—
So yeah… I support killing games.

Maybe it’s truth, maybe it’s shame,
But it’s written deep in my veins:
I support killing games…
I support killing games…

>>713822773
Why should I give out my tools for free?

>>713826349
>the present sucks, therefore we should do absolutely nothing to improve our future

>>713824137
Wonder if nyanners would back it up

>>713820669
but your whole movement is based on the lie that you didn't know a game could possibly shut down

they literally tell you upfront that it could happen

>>713826392
No one here cares about that faggots tho. The entire thread is about the gay petition.

You MotherFuckers should be THANKFUL that you even get to play the game for 4 or 5 or however many years it ends up being!

>>713826409
i'm american bro. only difference is i've been to europe and you haven't. you let memes dictate your perception of reality. also if you reply to me again about your fantasies about a place you haven't set foot in again you're gay haha

>>713823103
>i pray that the government force my preferred solution onto devs
>you're a bootlicker though because you support the corporations

>>713826432
So that other people can actually do something with them instead of forever getting abandonned in a drawer you'll never open again.

>>713826314
>Most people do not get that, yes.
So rename the movement to "Gamers are morons" and see how much more support you get

>>713816814
>I don't support forcing developers to work for free
Same
But this is not about crunch

>>713826406
Indians get personally offended when someone attacks their corporate masters

>>713826536
there is no point talking sense to a friendless loser anon

>>713825695
You mean, when one you lie, we list several possible ways it can be done, and you can't challenge any of those, so you fall back to the lie, pretending you just showed up.

>>713826557
There is no prefered solution. The devs are given an objective and they are free to reach that objective how they see fit.

>>713826467
I'm going to rape you. No no its ok, i told you head of time that ur getting raped. Why are you complaining? I warned you ur getting raped stop winning you fucking cuck

>>713826536
>I was totally in Europe fifteen years ago dood, it's totally not like that there DOOD!
Dipshit

>>713816740 (OP)
I’m not gonna virtue signal about online games I don’t play.

>>713825629
The fans reviving dead MMOs is undeniably a passion project, you illiterate fucking turd.

>>713826432
An executable is not a tool. You are clearly not a real developer, just larping as one to strawman.

>>713826557
Governments are there to serve the people (usually).
Corporations are there to serve their profits (always).

Statistically speaking, not siding with a corporation is better.

>>713826439
Who are you quoting?
He shouldn't spread misinformation so faggots like pirate can lie about it. Nobody ever said that stop killing games was about resurrecting dead games. It was to STOP KILLING THEM

>>713823108
I know you think that whatever a government can do is fine if it supports your desires but it shouldn't surprise you that some anons are leery of government overreach and authoritarianism.

i feel like the shills are getting extra desperate today
reminder that corporations view everyone as literal chattel and that they would murder your entire family to save money if they could
reminder that the indian shills will be losing their jobs if this petition goes through.
back to the call center!

>>713826719
Eh, I am pretty sure most people running private servers would prefer if they could do it more easily.

>>713826706
Gotta virtue signal on 4chan that you are a big boy who doesn't do virtue signaling and that you really don't care about this, apparently?

>>713816814
>I don't
>why
>[something that has nothing to do with SKG]
Every single fucking time.

>>713826126
I agree with everything you wrote.
>reverse engineering this shit because 100x harder too. You don't have a way to get official network medium
This is very relevant to what I was doing, which was trying to do a "blizzlike" vanilla WoW experience. We mostly had old videos to go by, the Elitist Jerks forum and some old Beastiary Blizzard released at some point. Want to find an animation? Look at some grainy old footage and try animations until you find the right one. After a while you started to hate the player base. You spent maybe every night of your spare time for a week tracking down some weird issue with an engineering gadget people thought was fun, then when you did a release, all the players complain that not enough was in the release and that you hadn't focused on the right issues. It truly was a passion thing. Raiding with your guild, having fun with the content you could provide. That's also why we eventually called it quits. The passion ran out after bashing your head against an insurmountable mountain of issues for years and dealing with the constant legal threats coming in from Blizzard was never fun, another aspect of wanting it legal.

A decade later and I mostly miss that time of my life, but that's because my brain remembers the good times and garbage collected most of the bad.

>>713821530
What if I told you right-wingers also support it? Is your head gonna explode?

>>713826737
This. A lot of problems in government are caused by corporate influence so even when there's issues caused by lobbying and bribing, you can take action to patch up those holes.

>>713826803
Please tone down the antisemitism.

>>713824034
It can't be a 'small asterisk' because small print like that is insufficient for the legal requirements for transparency where material product characteristics and essential precontractual information such as the effective duration of contract are involved.

Have you ever seen those packs of smokes with big pictures of blackened lungs and phrases like "smoking gives you cancer"; "smoking kills"; etc. plastered all over them? You'd get something like that.

>>713824989
You won't buy new games if they suck, because you still have all of your old ones. So publishers would have to either go under or start making better games, which I think brings about another holocaust somehow.

>>713816814
Fuck 'em

>>713816814
If they didn't want to work for free then they shouldn't have killed their game

Why so many cock sucking slurpers around here defending billion dollar game companies

>>713826893
>all the players complain
That was unfair of me upon reading through my post again. There was a vocal minority, but they got under your skin. Sometimes I had fantasies about nuking their accounts in the DB and it made me feel better.

>>713826961
Fuck. Misquoted. Meant for >>713824363

>>713826785
We are giving the government the power to come into anyone's house to rape their family, we are asking it to temper one of the most common anticonsumer practices of the game industry at the moment.

>>713826536
>>713826619
Samenigger

>>713816814
It would require them to
>Make an update end of life to support to play offline
Or if they are cheap
>release the source code for servers and make fans do it lol
If you don't like the latter you'll are a cuck

>>713820527
>Actually it says right here in the EULA that this can happen.
yes, and the campaign argues that there should be a plan B after the official servers are sunset to keep the game playable offline in some capacity a la old valve multiplayer games and quake
it takes a couple of seconds to use your brain and math it out, RETARD

>>713826314
>That's exactly what the initiative wants to prevent.
the way the initiative is written is to prevent disabling software
that's different than software becoming inoperable because a private backend became unavailable

from the UK petition
>The government should update consumer law to prohibit publishers from disabling video games (and related game assets / features) they have already sold without recourse for customers to retain or repair them. We seek this as a statutory consumer right.

companies should not be able to disable the software running on your computer. but i don't think companies should be forced to provide their server software even at and after end of life. customers can always write their own server software, assuming it doesn't violate a digital rights law, which it likely would. in that case, the problem is that digital rights laws suck ass and need to be rewritten.

>>713825778
Try to find one. Hard-mode: Without lying.

>>713822858
Yes anon, that is the problem.
They should be made to be played forever.
Art being made as temporary in order to force you onto the next new thing is bad.

>>713826828
making online games accessible offline isn't something that happen automatically. an end of life plan costs time/money
if the EU were to pay the developers for the end of life plan, I'd support SKG

>>713818242
they want to mandate publishers to make all their future games playable after the publisher shuts down its own online services
i. e. no online authentication and mandatory inclusion of some type of private server

>>713826054
When was that?
The directive in question didn't enter into law until Jan 1st 2022.
And while most of it applies retroactively to purchases still under active supply, article 19 is explicitly excluded from applying retroactively.

>>713826818
Yeah, absolutely.
The dead I was replying to was being a retard to somebody arguing that you can't depend on the passion of a few dedicated fans to preserve games. Especially because it doesn't work most of the time. Fans ARE responsible for reviving about 2000 times as many games as the actual devs, but it's still just a sliver of all dead games.

>>713827094
see
>>713822352

>>713825462
592,932 sigs

>>713827006
I am pro killing games because I defend property rights, not billion dollar game companies.

Owners of intellectual property should have the ability to revoke license at any time without reason because it strengthens their ownership. Allowing customers to extend a license indefinitely dilutes the strength of the property owner's control of the property.

>>713826963
People fail to realize that when all developers move to online only that there won't be "old" games anymore. Every time the new one is released they'll just shut down the old one. Easy example is payday3 being online only for no fucking reason. Same with hitman.

We saw what a fucking disaster sim city2013 was because of it too.

>>713827067
>here is a game for sale that requires online connection to work, it may not last forever
>>I accept these conditions and will purchase your game
why do you need to insert yourself into this transaction?

>>713826961
How big are we talking here? The boxes already say Online Required but apparently that's not enough

>have the Crew 1
>perfectly fine to play if you like that sort of shit
>gets shut down
>Ubisoft releases Crew 2
>exact same fucking game except possibly worse
>some people like that
>gets shut down
>Ubishit releases Crew 3

This is the grift that this is designed to stop you dumb fucks.

>>713827175
not every gamedev is getting employed

>>713827087
it's ok to forget some things
many forms of art are ephemeral: every dance, every graffiti tagged wall, every mandala, etc.

>>713827046
Online games have been shutting down since the 90s. This is how the world works. You are pleading for daddy government to step in and alter this. The government does not belong in a position where it can force devs to give up their code or tools because they made an online game and it did poorly.

>>713827223
>I defend property rights
Just the ones of corporations not consumers?

>>713823103
>>713823224
I don't mean legally I mean morally/philosophically

>>713827304
Consumers exist to serve corporations

Nobody has disproven anything that Thor said 10 months ago.

>>713826661
>The devs are given an objective
That's the coercive force part people don't want to see.

>>713827253
If they are not employed they are just gamedev larpers.

>>713827070
>software becoming inoperable because a private backend became unavailable
this can be interpreted as and simplified to
>prevent disabling software

The idea is to represent the problem as simply as possible. "software becoming inoperable because a private backend became unavailable" is a sentence that only makes sense to those with software engineering skills or IT knowledge. It's going too deep into the specifics.

>>713827394
so their games are immune from this initiative?

>>713827304
There is a difference between property and possession. Consumers buy possessions, not property. When you buy a game, you buy a possession, you do not buy the intellectual property. If ownership of a possession has to suffer at the expense at defending ownership of a property, that's a necessary tradeoff because property is more important than a possession. A well maintained and defended property can be easily used to generate new possessions, but it is very difficult to convert possessions into property.

>>713827137
They removed it in 2020. It was even part of a lawsuit recently since Bungie no longer had any form of access to the removed parts and the lawsuit they were having involved those parts of the game, court told Bungie to fuck off after they tried using third party evidence like Youtube videos.
>With the release of the Beyond Light expansion in November 2020, Destiny 2's original base campaign (The Red War), as well as all of the content from Curse of Osiris and Warmind were removed from the game and placed into the Destiny Content Vault and are no longer accessible

>>713826432
Just because you hide half of your game behind the network doesn't mean the customer didn't buy it. You advertised the features, so it's part of the purchase.

>>713827278
>Online games have been shutting down since the 90s.
Funny how I can still play quake 30 years later online if I want to, at no cost to either the original dev or ip holder but it's unacceptable to ask to same of games made in the last decade somehow.

>>713827354
Fucking this I hope this shit fails Fucking commie bastards

>>713827223
>Owners of intellectual property should have the ability to revoke license at any time without reason
Post nose.

>>713827373
All laws are coercive (do this or you get penalized by that). I don't see the point you are trying to make.

>>713827479
Quake is pretty popular. What's your point? One game lasted so no dev can end service? Seems like a shit argument.

>>713827236
Approximately that size would do, but the text would need to be a lot more clear and explicit than "Internet connection required"
It would have to state something like "Multiplayer services not guaranteed to function passed <<date>>" - for instance.

>>713827354
>Nobody has disproven anything that Thor said 10 months ago
What did he said?

>>713827631
That the ugly guy is trying to trick innocent politicians

>>713827234
because i'm buying the game, you giga cucked retard. what kind of question is that? ross says, plain as day, those terms are bullshit and they should be off the table by providing an offline end of service plan or an open server approach like old school fps games. should i say it in hindu too?

>>713827569
If you understand that all laws are coercive can you not see that some people would want fewer of them rather than more, particularly for things that everyone involved knew could happen going into it?

>>713822967
Except most games DO work forever unless specifically designed not to. It's planned obsolescence and should be illegal.

>>713827612
No, the point is if it was possible 30 years ago, it should be possible now.

>>713827415
the details are important and unavoidable
digital rights law is absolutely steeped in more complicated distinctions than what i'm making
and knowing how computers more or less function is like 21st century literacy

>>713827614
Nobody would buy a game if it has an expiration date. That would kill those games

>>713827236
>online required
This means diddly shit. I have internet and once the publisher cuts the server on their side it does not matter that i have ''online''. Online does not imply a service, online does not imply a ''rental'' online implies that you need internet connection. I have it.

>>713827614
Sounds like a fairly simple to implement and easy to pass legislation. Why not lead with that instead of all this other bullshit and a provocative name like Stop Killing Games?
Of course even then there'd be exceptions for legal and technical reasons (DDOS attacks, security vulnerabilities, third party service dependencies, the developer going bust etc) so the date won't always be perfect but it ought to be good enough

>>713816740 (OP)
Has any actual game developer publicly said anything about it, aside from that faggot Thor or a few other e-celebs? What about all the so-called game journalists? This should be right up their alley.

>>713827612
id software is notable for releasing the source code for all its games eventually
doom communities thrive to this day because the dev tools were made freely available

>>713827734
This unironically.

>>713827702
Why does possible mean it should be mandatory? It's possible for humans to climb Everest, does this mean you should be dragged out of your home and sent off to Nepal with a down jacket and an ice axe? So what if quake did it, why does that mean that everyone else should be required to do it?

>>713825368
Material characteristics aren't allowed to be communicated via the small print of general terms and conditions. They have to actively be called out, explicit and standalone, in clear and comprehensible language.

>>713827807
it's completely DoA, even if the petition gets enough signatures

explain the Pirate Software thor guy raping his ferret how did people find out

>>713827807
Videogame journalists and videogame developers are owned by videogame publishers. Thier interests do not side with the consumer rights of gamers.

>>713827734
Good!

>>713827354
He looks like a pedophile.

>>713827689
The world gets bigger and need more rules to compensate. Pretending you don't need new rules, especially around new technologies and situations we'd never been into before, is moronic. If your problem if the number of them, rest assured that they get culled as technologies gets replaced and situation that were common a few centuries ago aren't anymore now.

>>713827612
what service is still being provided for quake?

>>713827612
Quake is set up so that one cannot "end service." Every copy of the game can be a server, for itself in singleplayer, and for others in multiplayer. There is no reason that a game has to be set up to depend on a publisher controlled central server. Every game before a certain time was set up without this dependency. Every game even today is built without a central server dependency at first and then has one added later.

>>713827875
NTA but that's an insane non sequitur.

>>713827702
Louis Rossman brought up some good points to counter pirate. In his video he talked aboy how sometimes devs might use third party tools that they legally won't be allowed to use past xyz date. In those cases making that game available past that date might not be possible. So if a bill passed I suppose devs just flat out couldn't use this kinds of tools unless their license could change.

Hardspace shipbreaker listed their third party tools on why they couldn't implement player made ships.

>>713827734
The reality is that that's already happening, the assumption is that people are just too fucking stupid to understand that it's happening.
So if gamers truly are that dumb, then yes it'd kill some games. But if gamers aren't drooling retards, nothing will change.
>>713827763
Presumably the game needs the internet for more than just checking if the internet still exists. There needs to be something that it can communicate with on the other end. And besides, on PS4/PS5 you need PS Plus anyways which is a subscription service which means yes, you are expecting this to require some online service to be available. PS Plus isn't eternal either you know.

>>713827875
If the aim is to make games accessible without the door getting slammed in people's face at the dev's convenience, then Yes.

>>713827875
Games are always built without dependencies first and have dependencies added later. Making a self-contained game like Quake is staying at home, making a game that is modified to depend on a central server is being dragged out of your home.

>>713824473
Holy shit, you just reminded me Lost Planet 2 is dead because of this horse piss. It's too bad they weren't trying to grandfather any games into this just to be amenable to these faggot publishers.

I want the initiative to win, not because I care about preservation, but because I want to see PS fail again.

>>713827789
>Why not lead with that instead of all this other bullshit and a provocative name like Stop Killing Games?
It IS part of the initiative and the leading minimal thing.
The provocative name is because it's accurate and grabs attention. Do you have a better idea for the name? A name like
>Put a label on a game when you're going to kill it
would suck and nobody would give a shit. Making it clear the initiative is about games preservation makes it clear what it's about.

>>713828050
t. clueless

>>713827667

so you bought the game knowing it wouldn't last forever

>>713828073
You can't take the idea that something existing does not mean that it must be done and apply it to different situations?

>>713828119
Yeah, i'm sure that when your grandma buys you a videogame she knows exaclty online rquired means. I am sure that when a pimply zoomer buys a game he knows what online reuired really means(lets not take into account that zoomers are the most tech illiterate generation we have).

>>713828095
Fans who have revived old Battlefield games have done so despite the games using third party tools that aren't available anymore.

>>713828050
>Every game before a certain time was set up without this dependency
Completely untrue as old MUDs, the oldest of online games back in the late 70's and early 80's, were explicitly built on the idea of being hosted on a central server that the users then accessed.
This is also why most of them are lost media these days as they truly lived only on a single server, and unless the server host backed them up there's no way to ever play them again.

>>713828095
This kind of intrinsic details gets fleshed out when the law is being drafted. A proposition not being perfect from the start doesn't mean we should stop it from ever being discussed.

>>713828212
I honestly think that was just because of capcoms incompetence and not malice on their part. It used gfwl right? Japan was fucking awful at porting games to PC back then.

>>713827720
>the details are important and unavoidable
Yes, but in the case of the initiative they're NOT important and must be avoided. The details are discussed by lawyers and people in the industry AFTER the initiative passes. That's just how EU initiatives work.
The UK thing I'm not sure about. They communicated with the UK government 4 or 5 times already.
>knowing how computers more or less function is like 21st century literacy
Most people in governments are 40+. And they're mostly politicians and lawyers. They don't need to know this themselves, they surround themselves with people who do.

>>713828245
the point is that it should

>>713828119
Having to pay PS Plus to play third party games should be illegal.

>>713828318
And would these complete fucking morons understand even if the game said in big bright letters covering half the box art "Best before: June 1st 2028"?

>>713828293
Most of us didn't got their logic lessons at Hebrew school.

>>713828341
Right but those are fans that don't really care about the legal details. If you run a company you have to be careful about licenses so you don't get sued when they find out you violated your agreement.
Honestly if a bill did pass this would force those toolmakers to either change their license agreement to be more flexible or they would run the risk of becoming irrelevant too.

>thread over bump limit, slows down immediately to a crawl
>all the bots and indians have moved to another thread.

>>713828373
>in the case of the initiative they're NOT important
initiative discarded, then

>>713827440
>If ownership of a possession has to suffer at the expense at defending ownership of a property, that's a necessary tradeoff because property is more important than a possession.

Except the protection of a consumer's possessions is literally part of the EU Charter, which has a status akin to the US Constitution in the pecking order of legal matters within the EU. In other words, the importance of protecting a consumer's possessions trumps having to protect a corporation's intellectual property.

>>713828556
>didn't got
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD
MORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRING
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR

>>713828573
>Honestly if a bill did pass this would force those toolmakers to either change their license agreement to be more flexible or they would run the risk of becoming irrelevant too.
They should be able to sell a lifetime license.

>>713828582
>retard doesn't know how laws get made
Very common in these threads from what I've seen.

>>713828669
First language is actually Spanish. Those v

>>713828779
verb conjugations are tricky.*

>>713827734
Which means publishers would stop making those type of cancerous live service games, because they wouldn't sell and there'd be no money in them.
Instead, they'd return to glorious single player experiences; or locally self-hosted multiplayer.
It would also close off all the major avenues for post-sale microtransaction cancer.

In short: it'd be a massive fucking win for games and gamers. Period.

>>713828293
it's still not a good comparison because one is a shift in standards that goes against consumer interests, and the other is an achievement among hobbyists. your argument would unironically be more compelling if you pulled the medieval age of consent comparison

>>713828698
i don't support overly broad and poorly thought out policy making

>>713828556
>>713828779
>>713828870
>SKGfags are bunch of ESL thirdies
OHNONONONONONONONO THORGOD HAS WON AGAIN

>>713829016
to add, strategically, that's a dead end

>>713825932
>internet still there
>game still doesn't work

>>713827807
>Has any actual game developer publicly said anything about it, aside from that faggot Thor or a few other e-celebs?
Yes. The actual game development studio behind Rivals of Aether, whose publisher Thor is attached to, has publically stated they are fully supportive of the SKG campaign and distanced themselves from everything Thor had to say on the subject.

>>713829096
Everyone in Europe speaks English as a first language?

>>713818242
When somebody sells you a game for money they have to make plans on how the game will remain playable once they no longer want to support it. If you want to have a kill switch in your game that destroys it you have to refund people.

>>713829220
So what's up with Thor? Is he getting bribed? Is he just gay and retarded?

>>713825778
No downside FOR US. It's win-win for consumers. At worst it would be neutral. The games can't get more dead than they already are.

>>713829016
>>713829131
Well, be glad to know that a citizen initiative is there to get lawmakers to go to work and make a workable policy that is niether over braod nor poorly thought out.

>>713828991
also to add insult to injury, the comparison implies that giving consumers the choice to run their own servers is some herculean task that devs can't possibly achieve and not an aggressively anti-consumer shekel shaker is funny as fuck

>>713819180
You have never looked at a single law in your life, because otherwise you would know that "playable in a reasonable state" is 100% common legalese wording.
If you're fucking around a judge will decide if your solution was reasonable, same as with every other law.

>>713829414
the laws already been worked out with all the digital rights law bullshit
you lost a long time ago