*unplugs the wifi*

NOOOOOOOO I NEED TO RETURN TO MY MINECRAFT WORLD

that sideways asian grippy doe

>>714754035 (OP)
...that's the wrong guy, actually

>>714754035 (OP)
NOOOO you can't just kill all the video game characters by turning off my game!
They're REAL TO ME!

Literally who

>>714754145
tattoos ruined her

>>714754276
not as hard as I would ruin her
sexually, namsayin

>>714754035 (OP)
Child throws a tantrum, does delusional mental gymnastics to justify her morbid escapism, and acts overly dramatic and "moral" towards internet anons over losing characters created in a save file instead of learning how to cope with the real world and its problems like a mature person would.

>>714754035 (OP)
It’s actually hilarious to think that the entire plot of this game can be accurately summarised as a father trying to get his wife and daughter to touch grass.

>>714754574
The people in the painting are real.

>>714755339
The only arguably real person in the painting was Verso and he wanted to die

>>714754213

>>714755456
>The only [...] real person in the painting was Verso
a perfectly fine opinion
>The only arguably real person in the painting was Verso
objectively false because a bunch of us on this site are in fact arguing that the other people were real

>>714755339
No they're not

>>714755456
>arguably
It's been argued (with merit) that all the lumierans are as real as anyone can be in a videogame

>>714754349
I really want to have sex with lune, is that weird?

>>714755773
They weren't since they have no soul. They are just more elaborate sims

>>714755456
Maelle is a real person. Alicia understand better than anyone how real the painted people are, she literally was one for years.

>>714754035 (OP)

>>714754574
If video game characters were as authentic and self-determining as how painted people are portrayed in relation to Alicia I'd think twice before deleting my vidya safe files too...

>>714755897
Then neither are you.

>>714755926
No, she is gorgeous. What would be weird is if you didn't want to make fuck with her.

>>714755938
how do you know that you have a soul?

>>714755970
Maelle and Alicia are basically the same and she doesn't really count.
Painted Verso has a part of real Verso's soul or whatever you want to call it in him. The rest of the painted people don't.

>>714754145
>>714754349
>>714756075


Sciel > Lune.

No amount of persuasion from yellow fever fags will change this.

>>714756042
I'm not inside a painting

>>714756098
I don't know and it doesn't matter. It's plain to see that the painted people are merely very elaborate constructs. Their lives are worth less than the lives of real people

>>714756098
Souls don't exist, but the people in the painting have the same value as dogs or cockroaches, basically zero

>>714756410
How do you know?

>>714756306
Maelle > Both

Fact!

>>714756125
Of course they have souls, in the same way irl people have souls. They don't have painter souls but it doesn't matter.

>>714754035 (OP)

>>714756098
I bet you're the kind of person who talks to AI chatbots like they can understand you

>>714755938
Actually, the game states they do have souls.

>>714754276
It's fine because they're magical power tattoos that she uses to cast spells.

>>714755339
Watch Maelles ending again. They're copies of each other. The only reason why they seemed "alive" was that Verso and her mom had more talent at painting.

>>714756125
Maelle is literally a complete work of fiction painted over Alicia. She is a completely distinct person.
>painted verso as a part of real Verso's soul
The only thing the game says outright about a fragment of Verso's soul has to do with the canvas itself. And you see enough to work out the actual aspect of Verso's soul is the Faceless Boy. Painted Verso is likely what Claire says he is, Aline's memory of him.

>>714756676
The game never states anything, only characters do. Which character said that?

>>714756481
Exactly, same as dogs or cockroaches or you, or anyone.

>>714754574
yeah just cope with having burn scars, missing an eye, being unable to speak, your brother dying and your parents and sister not giving a shit about you bro. you're 16 act like an adult.

>>714756306
I like Sciel but her obsession with her dead husband feels like I'm either cucking or getting cucked

>>714756781
Yes, that's also confirmed in the confrontation with the Paintress. She outright states that he isn't Verso, and he responds in kind by saying that Verso died. Painted Verso has nothing to do with Verso's soul. He's his own person, born from the memories of Verso's mother. What makes him interesting is how he's bound to obey the impulses of the memory of Verso, while also resenting them and being tortured by them.

>>714756626
nonexistence of the soul doesnt mean that people are the same as AI and dogs and rocks and plants, it just means nonexistence of the soul

>>714756835
Verso says that (forma de child)

>>714754145
>>714754349
>>714755926
>>714756075
waifutards are really so deep in their own asses that they're talking about their make believe girl in a thread calling out escapism as bad. interesting.

>>714756930
Her brother has been dead for a while now, her parents both love her and her sister deals with the loss of Verso by simply going ballistic on the writers. She doesn't hate Alicia.
Sure, living in a fantasyland would be much easier but at some point, she has to confront her grief and her feelings of guilt.
Plus, she has no right to keep Verso's soul captive

>>714755456
All of the painting's inhabitants were "real";
they were simply of a lower form of life.
Any incapable of leaving the painting were pure artifice.
Even Verso was a mere facsimile.

A single, authentic human life is worth more than their totality.

>>714756842
Value depends on the pov.
We are biologically programmed to see value in human lives specifically those close to us. You can wax philosophical all you want but that's the bottom line.
Its illogical for humans to see value in in dogs or cockroaches or AI bots, the same way it is illogical for the painters to see value in their creations.

>>714756753
But she repaints Lune and Sciel and they're no different from before

>>714757271
>it is illogical for the painters to see value in their creations
Their creations are their legacy. It would be illogical to not see value.

>>714757262
spoken like a true j*w

>>714757191
>Her brother has been dead for a while now, her parents both love her and her sister deals with the loss of Verso by simply going ballistic on the writers. She doesn't hate Alicia.
Aline's journals hint at the resentment she feels toward Alicia. I think Renoir loves her though. Clea is an interesting case. She might love Alicia, but I could hardly blame her for feeling unloved. Especially when you dive deeper into the relationship between Verso and Clea, who appeared to be much closer than any of Alicia's relationships with her siblings. The resentment is clear there, too.
>Plus, she has no right to keep Verso's soul captive
I agree with this thoughbeit.

>>714757271
Ok then if I say the painting people are real, by your definition it is true in a sense. Glad we agree.

Does the world inside the paintings even exist without at least one painter "plugged in"? Because it seems like it doesn't, in that case there's no way anything inside a painting can be anything other than a piece of the painter himself.

>>714754035 (OP)
>Kiara was totally ok with ‘painted people genocide’
>you gotta do what you gotta do
Based chicken, i know she got that Austrian in her somewhere

>>714757390
Aline can't look at Alicia because she sees her own suffering reflected back at her. Sure, she blames her but at the same time she feels ashamed about the fact that she does.
The thing with this family is that in the end, they all love one another.

>>714757671
literally all of them picked the verso ending which makes it even more baffling that people who picked the maelle ending exist

>>714757606
It's not outright stated but I think it would have to continue existing. Think about it this way, Verso was the one who created the canvas as a child, and it's stated that Verso and Clea would go into the canvas to play. So they themselves could come and go, but yet even after dying there's a piece of Verso's soul that remains in the canvas. I think painters must use a piece of their soul to "keep the canvas running" so to speak. Otherwise, why would there be a lingering fragment of Verso's soul inside of the painting, and why would it take the same form he had when he first created the canvas?

>>714757739
Nah biboo picked Alicia ending first cause she wanted esquie to live
Literally Alicia mentality though kek

>>714757606
Unclear, but I would say it's reasonable to assume Verso wasn't inside his canvas 24/7 until his death and as such there were many instances of the canvas having no painter inside. It's also implied throughout the game all the og inhabitants were there from the start. If you put those two reasonable assumptions together that would seem like entities inside the painting can live on just fine without a painter inside. Unclear as to the mechanics (is there a time limit? do they need mnimum maintenance? etc.)

>>714757606
Yes it existed and went unused for a long time before the fire incident. But the flow of time isn't 1:1.

>>714757879
a few streams after she admitted the verso ending was the better one

I can't believe that there are people who unironically like Sciel. She's ugly as sin, genuinely unpleasant to look at.

>>714757317
Cause she got their chroma right after Renoir gommages everyone. She couldn't do it with the others since there was less or even none left and she had to do it herself.

>>714757730
>The thing with this family is that in the end, they all love one another.
Sure, but you have to admit it's a tall order for anyone, adult OR child, to be able to see or feel that love when those resentful feelings exist. And it's even harder when you feel those same resentful feelings about yourself, too.

>>714758064
Sure, escapism still isn't the answer.

>>714757964
Are you a homosexual?

>>714757964
By ugly as sin you mean not 10/10 model right? Because every character in this game is above average looking.

>>714754035 (OP)
Could they sell the damn canvas or give it to another painter family?
>Nooo mommy will always find it
I call bullshit

>>714757964
You WILL shag her arse.

>>714758064
Which is all the more reason for the adults in the room to look out for the person who lacks the maturity to look past their immediate and more superficial feelings.

>>714757964
She's a 10/10 her personality is just shit.

>>714758125
>above average looking
Every single character in this game would be top 1% attractive people.

>>714756949
If anything, that proves she’s loyal. Lune’s the slut.

>>714758318
I agree. I think Alicia's entire family failed her in some way aside from Verso (real Verso, not Painted Verso). People give Renoir too much of a pass in particular. Aline's failings are obvious, but where does Renoir get off preaching to Maelle when he abandoned her in favor of his wife?

>>714758503
>that proves she’s loyal

>>714758318
But they DON'T. I totally understand why Alicia decided to just ditch her stupid RL family and hanged out with her painted friends who actually care for her. Because Renoir and Aline approached Alicia in the worst manner possible.

>>714758610
Nah
He went in the canvas thinking he could drag her out in a few weeks not 67 fucking years
The woman is insane. He cant even get out and forced to maintain the stalemate otherwise she would sink even deeper
Her whole damn reasoning is literally muh feeling nooo give me more copium

>>714758853
>But they DON'T.
But they do? Or I should say "HE does", because it's only Renoir, but he IS looking out for his daughter and is trying his hardest to force her out.

>>714758853
Guess what, people irl dont suck you up 24/7 like your imaginary friends huh

>>714759038
>but he IS looking out for his daughter and is trying his hardest to force her out.
And yet he doesn't even bother to address any of the points she's making. Renoir actually comes off as someone who is desperate to get his family back not because he actually cares about their well being, but because the family being a mess inconveniences him personally.

>>714759212
> the points she's making
Like? Papa no stop solving the problem it hurts my feeling?

>>714759020
>He went in the canvas thinking he could drag her out in a few weeks not 67 fucking years
Then why didn't he return to his two daughters when it became obvious he wasn't going to succeed in a reasonable timeframe? Because, ultimately, like you stated, he chose his wife over anything else. He wanted to save her. More than anything, Renoir wants control of the chaos in his life. In his eyes, Alicia was not something that needed to be controlled, and thus it didn't require his attention. I don't doubt for one second that Renoir loves his daughter, but she NEEDED him. Who else did she have? No one. Clea was absorbed in her own form of grief too. Instead of being there for his children, he decided to pursue a more skilled painter into a painting. My point is not to justify Aline's actions, it's to critique Renoir's priorities and his need for absolute control. There was a crippled child who needed his love and he left her.
>>714759090
Maelle was an outcast before the Expedition.

Time for swimswim

>>714756306
Wrong.

>>714759212
You're missing the point. I'm just saying he is trying HIS best to get her out for her own good. If you want to argue he should've tried it a different way, sure go right ahead, I'm not having this pointless discussion.

>not because he actually cares about their well being, but because the family being a mess inconveniences him personally.
I'm not having this nonsense. There is nothing in the game that even remotely implies this. Unless you want to get into some serious mind reading the game paints a very clear picture of Renoir as someone who for all his flaws is trying to do what he believes is best for his family, both as individuals and as a group.

>>714759341
Nah at the point of the final choice, she is their savior, they will be sucking her up 24/7
Not to mention she literally silence anyone who thinks… different, like Verso

>>714759273
...what problem is he even solving? If anything, his approach causes MORE problems.
And no, "papa, why the fuck should I ever return to the real world, where my family hates me, I am a mute, dusfigured cripple and my brother is dead because of me" is a legit question, that Renoir never bothered to answer. He just wanted Alicia back because fuck you, do as I say.

>>714759480
God I want her to cover my cock with that red lipstick

>>714758503
Line took longer to romance. Sciel was a real whooer!

I finally finished it and holy shit I didn't expect it to be that good. Also I think I'm in love Maelle. What's the french version of a waifu?

>>714759418
BASED

IT'S
A
PAINTING.

NOT A VIDEOGAME.

PAINTERS CREATE WORLDS. THEY DON'T CODE SOFTWARE THAT RUNS ON A COMPUTER AND GETS SAVED TO A HARD DRIVE AND BOOTS UP AND BOOTS DOWN AND LOADS AND ONLY "RUNS" WHEN THE "PLAYER" IS "LOGGED ON". IT'S A PAINTING. IT DOESN'T HAVE A TICK RATE.

PAINTERS.
CREATE.
WORLDS.

Therefore, the world that the painter creates is real and so are the people inside it. That's the only possible interpretation based on the whole fucking conceit of the game, which is very clearly a love letter to artistry.

I fucking hate you soulless tech-brained NPCs.

>>714759597
>There is nothing in the game that even remotely implies this
There is this conversation before the final boss fight, where he keeps dismissing her arguments while rattling off what HE wants. He's doing it for himself and his own piece of mind.

>>714759780
mon ami

>>714759212
>having to deal with his disfigured daughter irl is less of an inconvenience than just letting let stay inside the painting until she expires

Chuds itt be like
>the painting isn’t real and neither are it’s inhabitants, just let them die bro
then go to church on Sunday and thank God for creating them and everything they’ve ever known
think about it…

>>714759890
Given that at no point in the story he even acknowledges his daughter is and always will be a disfigured cripple, I have a feeling it haven't yet dawned on him.

>>714759212
Bit of both actually (and that's a good thing, a real character should have multiple reasons to do anything) :
>His family's a mess and he loves them
>They should really touch grass
>He'd like to grieve his son as well but he's too busy making sure the world keeps running (actual patriarch mental load)
>it would look bad to the neighbors
>There's a fucking WAR with the writers that he has to go back to or else his eldest daughter is going to crash out
>It would look bad to the neighboring Writers to show weakness like this
>He has been in apnea for 67 years and couldn't leave from his wife's facesitting on him

At some point, he's entitled to stop listening to his hormonal teenage daughter's rambling.
If you have kids, you'd definitely see where he's coming from.

>>714759812
nooooo real world videogame escapism is totally equivalent to magical bullshit painting that you can spend extra lifetimes in

>>714758610
>I think Alicia's entire family failed her in some way
And she didn't fail her family too?
She's 16, not a baby, but she behaves like an absolute (psychopathic) brat in her ending.

>>714759676
Because he loves his daughter and doesn't want to see her the same way he had to see his wife day in and day out?

>>714760017
>she's alive
>she can paint
>they are rich
>she's alive and not torturing the soul of their dead son
All points for getting her out.

>>714759812
It most certainly has a tickrate, painting years flow much faster than real years

>>714759676
>You should stop taking drugs even if it alleviates your pain, you're going to overdose, I know because I've been there before
>PAPA VA T'EN
I bet you're against spanking young children.

I just got to act 3 and holy hell does esquie not shut up flying, I like the guy but he talks too much.
Also is there any further explanation about the writers in the game?

>>714760080
Given that's she's the one who got fucked over the most, she's entitled to be a bitch about it. Someone going "what about MY feelings" at you won't cut it when you yourself are so fucked, the act of breathing hurts you.

>>714759676
> Renoir never bothered to answer
He literally said its fucking killing her? And he even showed a image of mommy dying and coughing outside due to her VR addition?
But of course that doesnt mean anything to Alicia and you Aliciafag as long as you get your copium dose to escape from irl problems

>>714759815
No he's dismissing her arguments because he believes (correctly btw) she's past the point of arguing. I have no idea where you're getting the idea he's doing it for himself. Every justification he ever gives is always focused on Aline/Alicia, wither it's because they will literally die if they don't come out, or it's unhealthy (mentally) for them or whatever. This is opposed to all the reasons Alicia gives which for all the points she could pick that would not be self centered, she never really makes them, all her reasons are focused on her ("I have no lfe outside." "these are MY friends now." "I don't want to lose them." etc.)

>>714760223
I just finished it and no, not that I’ve seen. Prob sequel bait.

>>714760248
>He literally said its fucking killing her?
Why would she care? She was wasting away in that life. Renoir was not speaking in a way that could reach her. And there probably was no way he could at that point since he had already failed as a father. She wasn't living in that life. But let me guess, it was REALLY sad when Verso said, "I don't want this life!" over and over in the Maelle ending, right? And completely justified?

versofags be like
>letting painted people live is morally wrong

>>714759985
Ok even if they are ‘real’
It is justifiable to torture a child soul to fuel their existence? If you want to play the moral card

>>714760396
>Why would she care?
Lol are you for real? Your family is telling you not to kys and your reaction is why would i care?
Aliciafag is confirmed to be as psychopathic as her

>>714760408
> morally wrong
Yes if they have to torture the soul of a child to continue living
Let him rest you villain

>>714754035 (OP)
I think its somewhat ludicrous how he is framed as the badguy. He's destroying this fantasy world we use to escape from reality and pretend bad things don't happen!

>>714760579
Read those who walk away from Ormelas
https://shsdavisapes.pbworks.com/f/Omelas.pdf
It's a short fiction.

>>714760512
You must be low IQ. Did you just forget the fact that she's effectively spent half of her years inside of the painting? Everything she experienced there would be just as real to her as the life she escaped from. And she was fucking miserable. So yes, why would she care? She's happy now. If you're going to discuss these kinds of things you should actually try to engage with the thought process of the characters.

I picked Verso ending btw.

>>714760674
>>714760579
Except you can't walk from Omelas or you fucking die in this case.

>>714760413
Idk what if someone is out there convincing god to drop his pet project here and get back to “reality”? Tbh though I picked the Maelle ending first to save my bad bitch Lune, and it was kino but unsettling.
>>714760590
I don’t think he’s framed as the “bad guy” by the end and that’s why it’s a really good story.

Let's not pretend that 99% of Versofags wouldn't have made the same choice Alicia made.

Using the Lumiere version of Renoir to push the pro Verso point, the man that was pushed to the brink to save his family from his psychopath son that wanted to kill them all, who had to murder his own people to stop them from fighting against their common interests, the man who was mercilessly put down like a dog and even then his last words were about how much he loved his family to his clone that was going to replace him...
It's a bit weird isn't it?

>>714759812
>>714759812
What I'm more curious about is how much free will the Painted People have. Clearly Painted Verso is influenced in some ways by the way his mother remembers him and one of his motivations is removing Aline from the painting not only so he can finally be erased, but also so he can free his mother from the canvas. So, if he's influenced to feel this sort of love for her, are all of the people in the canvas influenced by those random memories from Aline? Does that matter and make them less 'human' or 'real'?

>>714760512
Renoir's solution is to walk up to a girl about to commit a suicide and go "hey, don't jump, you'll die".
Motherfucker, that's the point.

>>714760729
It is morally right to stop torturing the child

>>714760674
Holy shit this takes me back

>>714760895
Then why are you forcing Alicia to live as a disfigured cripple in a pathological family?

>>714760985
It is morally right for her to stop torturing her brother’s soul

>>714760895
This anon bet me to it >>714760985 it’s not really verso painting lumierre it’s a golem of him that his mother created

>>714760852
Painted Renoir and Alicia get absolutely brutalized by the narrative and I don't get what the point is. Based on their nightmare cutscene it's just torture porn.
They use him instead of the old scrawny Renoir to refer to the latter because he has a cool coat and unmatched aura, while the other is a faceless statue the whole game.

>>714761071
No? That is a piece of real verso’s soul left inside the painting
Where the hell did you get this golem stuff from

>tfw Maelle's mocap actress is hotter than all the meme VA's
>ywn have a French gymnast gf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ4DHDX-pQk

>>714760862
Painted renoir mentions Aline just dumped a ton of guilt and pain on him when she painted him.
She also made him extremely loyal to her cause.

>>714760870
It's more like Renoir walking up to his addicted daughter and slapping the heroin out of her hands and then telling her "Don't do this. I went through this hell, your mother is going through it right now. It's destroying our family."
He never claimed to have all the answers but he shows how much he cares about her.

>>714760729
The only one who "can" walk away from Ormelas is Alicia in this case. And she chose to stay.

>>714761192
That's true as well. I suppose my thinking is that there are a lot of things that the Painter can influence, there are also plenty of things that they can't predict. I doubt Aline intended for Painted Verso to be a habitual liar for example. Is it just like human beings still being humans even if their rational thinking gets overridden by instinct from time to time? Or does the fact that their emotions and motivations can be so heavily influenced by the Painter upon creation make them far less than human? I think it's also fair to think that the Painted Family were exceptions to the rule when it comes to just how much they're influenced. After all, why would Aline allow everyone else to have ambitions of killing the Paintress if she had that same power over everyone painted into the world?

>>714761107
Ther was a point to both. Renoir had to be erased to accomplish their ultimate goal, which at that time they believed it was to save literally the whole world. Alicia outright asked to be erased for similar reasons to Verso.

I you're asking on a more meta level, both kinda had to go. I mean where the fuck else were their characters going? They had both served their narrative purpose by that point and anything other then them dying would've felt like a loose thread.

On an even more meta level, yes they were both brutal, and in that sense they accomplished their purpose of having an impact on (You)

>>714761231
>drug addiction metaphor
Ehh. I dunno what I was expecting.
But sure, I'll bite. How does it help the addict outside of just making them angry and looking for a new outlet of escape. The canvas isn't a problem. The family being fucked is the problem. They don't talk to one another, they don't listen to one another, they all think they have all the answers.

>>714760862
they have painter toxoplasmosis

>>714761493
So what you're saying is that genocide against cat owners is justified

>>714761472
Well the first thing to help drug addict is to… take away their drugs, duh
Since these people, much like Alicia, wont listen to reasoning anymore

>>714761472
So what is the path then? To let Aline/Alicia just drown themselves in the painting? How does that make them "talk to one another"? You'd think the basic per-requisit for them to even start talking is for them to be in the same plane of existence at least.

>>714761165
>Verso playing the piano scene
>Esquie ballet dancing was improvised by the other Mocap actress who didn't know what to do
and
>Count me in then
>Good.
>Good.
>Good.
>Good.
Was also improvised because they forgot if they had any lines after the Count me in.
I love those anecdotes so much.

>>714761591
He basically said since Alicia life kinda suck irl, we better let her cope inside the canvas, while killing herself

>Link's Awakening
Everyone in Koholint vanishes from existence except maybe Marin

>FFX
Zanarkand vanishes and its people lose physical form but they still have souls who get an afterlife. Also FFX-2 happens.

>COE33
Everyone in Lumiere vanishes into oblivion.

What other games in the dream world genocide genre am I missing?

>>714760080
To be fair, she is grieving, and grief makes people behave irrationally. Doesn’t make her right, but still.

>>714761423
Aline SERIOUSLY understimated the lengths Verso would go for his real family.
She painted him too well, that's why he says
>you are ok
to Alicia as she vanishes despite Aline not being there to give him that specific memory of his real death.

>>714761753
FFTA? I never finished it

Test

>>714761795
Oh shit I forgot
>FFTA
Everyone in Ivalice is actually a person in the real world so they wake up, no harm or foul..

>>714760229
>she's entitled to be a bitch about it.
>I'm entitled to torture people with my god powers because I'm suffering
She's just her mom.

>>714761835
Unless they die IRL when their Ivalice counterparts are killed.

>>714761591
>You'd think the basic per-requisit for them to even start talking is for them to be in the same plane of existence at least.
I mean, yeah? Renoir didn't even try to connect with his daughter, he just started throwing monsters at her to force her to comply. That's just shitty parenting.
Has he tried the middle ground?
>ok, how about I WON'T destroy the canvas and help you restore Lumiere, but then we go home and get some ice cream? Also, I won't prevent you from seeing your friends in the canvas, because I know you care for them.
That would be a good starting point.

>>714761931
>but then we go home and get some ice cream?
Oh man, you actualy believe she was going to ever leave the canvas.
It'd be just one shitty excuse after another and she'd never leave.

>>714761542
no but they should be kicked out of the litterbox

>>714761965
And it's on Renoir to actually provide her with a REASON she wants to go home. But he has provided her with none and expected her to comply, while yelling at her.

>>714761753
Mario 2
It was all a dream!!!

>>714754145
> make game with good looking women and men
> another overwhelming success that even girls adore
> they will continue making vitiligo-ridden they/them ugly lesbian looking sheboons thinking that will work

>>714759812
I was wondering where the anger for this post came from and then I started reading some more comments about the ending in lower IQ places like youtube comments. Holy shit these people are fucking retarded they don't understand the people of the painted world, they have no conception of morals from the perspective of the painters and they say the stupidest things while comparing it to AI or other equivalently bad comparisons. These discussions have really demonstrated that if humans ever become functional gods to other sentient life, so many of us would be unbelievably evil without even realizing it.

>>714762085
E33 found the secret sauce for sneaking in diversity points. Just throw in an asian character

>>714761931
>Yeah bro I'll just leave the canvas alive. I'll just trust you to com out with me and not go back. What's the worst that could happen? It's just another 60+ years and an apocalyptic level of destruction, death, and suffering if you ever relapse for a couple of minutes while I'm not looking.

>>714762192
>asian
>probable gypsy
>some nogs in the only part journos will play
That's enough diversity

>>714762192
that's the thing right, everyone loves hot asians in games, men and women both, but twitter troons don't consider "asians" as diverse or disenfranchised as blacks or pajeets.

>>714762085
>vitiligo-ridden
I didn't do anything man, leave me out of this

>>714762278
sorry bro

>>714762192
There's also Alicia if you want to count her disabilities as diversity points. But it's done in such a great way where you end up really caring for her so it would be impossible to see it as some contrived inclusion.

People gloss over the fact that they are at WAR with the writers and being actively targeted for attacks. If Alicia is killed during one of these attacks because she is in hellen Keller mode playing in her painting it all goes up in smoke anyway

>>714762278
You are so valid for that. Never stop being brave.

>>714762209
Yeah, actually trusting your own family members is a good quality to have. How else do you want your family to thrive, if you refuse to trust your daughter?

>>714762186
I understand the anger from that post. The concepts in this game are laid out plainly for anyone to understand but it feels like people are speed-running through the game, missing key lore bits while discussing the dilemma presented by the story with a shocking lack of empathy.

>>714762486
If they relapse it's a catastrophe they may not survive this time around, but hey at least he trusted them like a Good Father™ would.

>>714760017
He does acknowledge that but doesn't consider her situation the end of the world that justifies euthanasia by canvas. His painted version shows great care for painted Alicia, especially considering that Aline, who created him based on her own feelings and memories, is known to mistreat Alicia and even painted her as a mute burn victim while being fully capable of recreating her daughter before the tragedy.
Also, compare his real version's attitude to Alicia and Verso. Alicia in Act 3 is technically Maelle with Alicia's memories, but despite that, Renoir clearly cares for her. Verso's situation is the same, but he isn't Renoir's now-dead Verso, so Renoir never calls him "son" and appears very distant when interacting with him in cutscenes.

>>714762695
I mean, the alternative is Alicia commiting suicide and Aline filing for a divorce, because Renoir kept being a distrustful, controlling prick towards them.

>>714762917
Yes, that's the only alternative. You're right anon. Also let's just pretend Verso's ending doesn't exist.

>>714762890
>He does acknowledge that but doesn't consider her situation the end of the world that justifies euthanasia by canvas.
And he fails to acknowledge that for her IT IS the end of the world. That's what I keep saying, he (and by proxy the rest of the family) lacks empathy to solve this issue in a meaningful way.

>>714763032
Verso's ending is naive as fuck actually if it tries to convince me that this family somehow magically got together offscreen.

>>714763162
The game builds up the control-issues that Renoir has but ultimately concludes with him learning to let go and trust his daughter. I can believe he has some growth in that capacity.

>>714763162
Ok, so you do want to actually pretend like that ending doesn't exist? Is that where we're going now?

>>714757191
YES SHE HAS TO CONFRONT REALITY B-BECAUSE SHE JUST HAS TO OKAY?!
There is an actual economy out there! Schlomo needs you to pay your taxes, those iron dome missiles won't pay for themselves you know?

>>714763412
>B-BECAUSE SHE JUST HAS TO OKAY?
Otherwise she'll spent the rest of her life destroying her family and torturing to layers of her brother, who she says she loves.

>>714763412
It's implied that unlike Aline, Alicia actually confronted the reality of her situation, realized that it meant living the rest of her days as a sad cripple, went "fuck this shit" and decided to stay in the canvas.
That's a pretty reasonable approach to me.

>>714763572
No, what the game says is that she locked up herself in her room and basically became a depressed wreck while her parents were fighting each other.
Alicia basically goes from depression to full blown denial of the situation.

>>714756306
Nay.

>>714763565
>Otherwise she'll spent the rest of her life destroying her family
The family that neglected her when she needed them the most. I am sorry for not >being more sympathetic towards them.
and torturing to layers of her brother
The little shit doesn't know what he wants himself, so I legit have no stance on this issue.

>>714763565
That or she'll kill all the people of Lumière who are her second family
But the game does a very poor job at defending them, the final dilemma only focuses on Maelle and "true" Verso while conveniently setting aside the heavier implications
The story is just mediocre and the first 1/3 was the best part

>>714761931
Because as long as the canvas exists, Aline WILL have another woman moment, she WILL enter it again, and Renoir WILL have to follow her and cause another fracture and even more suffering for the lumierians, and they WILL be locked in another stalemate for a century. Destroying the canvas is better for the family, and it's honestly more merciful for the lumierians too.

>>714763652
Alicia's thing is not denial. It's resignation. She knows Lumiere is not real, but at this point she doesn't care. She knows Verso is not her brother, but at this point she doesn't care. Because everything that real world has to offer her is objectively worse.

>>714762383
To be fair, facial scars and muteness are relatively minor on the “disability” front. It’s not like she’s disfigured to the point that she looks unattractive. She lives the trope of “scarred, but still cute”, which is another point against her argument of staying in the canvas.

>>714763078
Does she show any empathy to her father? Doesh she imagine for a moment what Renoir will have to experience seeing his daughter standing in front of the canvas and slowly killing herself while also torturing the last remnant of his son's soul and risking Aline join their daughter yet again, and also having to fight off the writers, who will probably just murder their entire family?

>>714763736
>Aline WILL have another woman moment,
So tie her to a bed or something. How in the fuck this woman became the head of the Painter's council if she has THIS little self-control?

>>714754276
For the last time, they're magical runes embedded in her body that grant her powers, such as casting spells and levitation.

>>714763694
>But the game does a very poor job at defending them, the final dilemma only focuses on Maelle and "true" Verso while conveniently setting aside the heavier implications
In what way are those implications set aside? They're laid out very clearly, both in the main story and especially in the dialogue of the side dungeons of act 3.

>>714754035 (OP)
>*unplugs the wifi*
Nah it's more like after years of telling him you'll totally turn off the computer and go play outside with him, "just five more minutes", you never do. His heart breaks, he caves in, stop trying to help and just leaves you to rot in your addiction while praying one day you'll stop but knowing it's always gonna be "five more minutes".

Verso on the other hand, well he's the one who takes a crowbar to the router knowing you'll never stop.

Always remember, Alicia drew her sword against Verso first.
She had no will to talk things out.

>>714763884
You expect her to be an adult in the room?
Also, empathy is not a transaction. If you think in this categories, I don't envy your wife and kids.

>>714764073
>Maelle's choices should be respected
>no, she can't be expected to be an adult or to treat people the same way they treat her
Shitty teenager mind.

What's with this narrative that Verso's soul is being tortured? This feels like loaded language to me. Is it really just the one line in Verso's ending where he asks if he's tired of painting?

>>714764072
Yeah but also Verso blew up the world without telling her

>>714764198
>chronologically the last meeting with his soul tells you he wants to stop but that he doesn't know if he's allowed to
>jumps at the first chance to stop painting
>Alicia just draws her sword the moment he wants to leave
>forced to keep on painting with the knowledge his sister is killing herself
What do you call this?

>>714764246
Now we talk about things Alicia actually cared about. She doesn't even bat an eye after she's back.

>>714764198
Every interaction with the faceless boy is the real Verso speaking, and every interaction involves him lamenting the state of his painted world.

PAINTED BEINGS OR PAINTEES AS I LIKE TO CALL THEM GET OFF THIS CANVAS NOW

>>714756125
>Maelle and Alicia are basically the same

Not at all. I think one of the most important distinctions in the game is acknowledging that Maelle died at the end of Act 2.
Alicia saying "I'm Maelle" and "I prefer Maelle" when speaking with Verso is meant to demonstrate how delusional and far gone she is.

>>714764072
She actually did, he just ignored her and proceeded to erase the canvas. She actually had to forcibly stop him.

What was going on at the area where Gustave was about to shoot himself?

>>714764379
>oh no no no you shouldn't be here
>extends his hand towards his soul
>STOP!
Yeah, she HAD to use force in this case.

>>714764265
>>714764316
However, he's also the one that makes the case for the PAINTEES having souls in the first place. Clea is the one that disagrees with him. Is it fair for you to call it torture when you willingly created this canvas of painted souls to begin with?

>>714764385
The Nervrons were feeding off the expeditioners.

>>714764437
It's cute that you actually skipped the 90% of the dialogue they had in this scene.

>>714764452
Yeah, he says they have souls.
He also says he wants to stop.
>s it fair for you to call it torture when you willingly created this canvas of painted souls to begin with?
Yes? He didn't create those humans and it wasn't mean to be a battleground where his family went to commit suicide.
>oh I invented the knife that means I must keep on murdering people for the rest of my life

>>714764379
>>714764437
Is this the e33 equivalent of the "I consent, I consent, I don't" meme?

>>714758503
Verso is balls deep in Sciel like the 3rd time they talk. Lune doesn't get the dick until the end.

>>714761965
If she wants to do a little meth, she can just do a little meth and stop. She'll be fine. She can handle that.

>>714763942
They are mentioned at times but become irrelevant by the time Maelle has to make her choice in the final dungeon, that's why the "dilemma" feels artificial and weak.

Only mentally immature people think Maelle was in the right

>>714764536
No, but he did create the Gestrals. Who will also be destroyed, yet have souls too. So it's "torture" to continue painting this Canvas that you created to begin with, while fully believing that your creations are "real", all because your family decided to be retarded inside of your world? No, it's not okay to put an end to every soul just because you're tired now or because things didn't go exactly as planned. You signed up for this, painter. Maybe you shouldn't have played God in the first place if you didn't want to deal with the responsibility that comes with the role?

>>714764919
Also people with HUGE family and daddy issues.

>>714764960
But I thought children weren't responsible for their actions and should be allowed to do whatever the fuck they wanted because they are suffering?

>>714754035 (OP)
i still use ethernet tho

>>714764842
It's weird. The game actually wants to present us with a dilemma on one hand, but on the other is seems hellbent on saying that Verso is right. So what's the point of the dillema then, when both sides of the dillema are not equal?

>>714765032
I didn't make that argument. Why don't you address the point honestly instead?

>>714764919
>genocide is good if it's for le heckin' personal growth!
Moids really turn off the logic center of their brain if the opposing side involves a hysterical woman

>>714765662
>genocide
It's no more genocide than washing away an ant pile with the garden hose.

>>714754213
>painted people are able to develop their own society, culture and ideology without any direct input from their creators
>they have personal beliefs and views
>they can research and understand the world around them
>they have physiological needs
>they can develop on their own, to the point they can research technology that lets them rival their demiurgic gods in power
>"hehehehe they like the sims doe"

>>714765797
You don't believe that

>>714765951
You're right.
I would feel *more* remorse for killing the ants.

>>714764073
That's the point, she's a dumb teenager who is being selfish and unreasonable because of emotional and physical trauma. But it's not something people cannot overcome, and if she still decides to waste her life away after leaving the painting, she'll be free to paint her own Lumiere later on, not causing Verso any more suffering.
Also, empathy is not something you're entitled to. If you don't empathize with others, don't expect them to show you empathy in return. Renoir clearly understands what Alicia feels because he lets her have it her way in the end, hoping that she'll give the situation some consideration and leave the painting for at least some time, also showing him some empathy.

Paintlings are not people

I shouldn't tell you guys this, but there's going to be a second CO game with the protag being Lune's and my biological child.

>>714768152
I fucked her first

>>714754035 (OP)
BING BING WAHOO!
>Jumps into Painting
DAH DAH DUN DUN

>>714767770
basically my opinion
which is why i find them trying to make verso's scenes emotional really faggy

>>714771596
I injected you with a virus that turns your sperm into my sperm, so by fucking her you actually cucked yourself.

>>714772391
Yea I fucked her first though now you gotta raise the kid